Today makes 55 years since “That Girl” debuted! (September 8th, 1966)

I hate it. Did her dad start St. Jude so he wouldn’t go to hell for being a bottom?

Marlo blazed the trail for Diahann Caroll's JULIA (68-71)!

I just started watching on one of the streaming platforms, though it has ads (and not period ones) so that was a bit frustrating. The pilot is remarkable for what I’m guessing was a set of a mid century modern office building that inexplicably has a third tiered antique store on the upper floors where Ann Marie and Donald meet cute fighting over a roll-top desk. The lobby is Mad Men period perfect with huge slabs of marble, which I guess were faux painted. I remember watching this a lot as a kid, born ‘65, so most likely in reruns. It did totally shape my idea and romanticism of NYC, which amongst other things lead me to be obsessed with coming to NYC.

Great show. Marlo is a first rate actress and comedienne.

The titles were cute, but I thought the show was just so-so. Marlo’s tried to make out that it was in some way a breakthrough for women's roles on TV. But it still had the doting constantly worried father, the nice benign and sexless boyfriend, and plots that would have been perfectly appropriate for the 1950s, let alone late 60s.

MTM pretty much blew That Girl out of the water when it premiered in 1970. That show was the one not only changed the the view on women on TV, but also elevated the ensemble sitcom to a new level. Dozens of later shows followed the blueprint, often with someone from the MTM show on the creative/producing side.

It hasn't aged well. It was never funny, and Marlo is so insecure, clingy and screechy. And she cries at least once per show.

I can't imagine what kind of actress Ann Marie would have been. Hope she just married Donald and moved to Long Island.

R5 because even if a woman in that time was empowered, most of the men around her still weren’t.

I saw it as a kid when it was first on and I loved it. I loved seeing the marquees of the Broadway theaters of the time in the opening. It's still nice to see Ted Bessell being so adorable. I always thought I'd have a boyfriend like him. I never did.

I hated the way her voice cracked. DAWN-ooooold.

I thought her boyfriend Donald was cute

Donald sort of had BDF.

[quote]That Girl was one of the first sitcoms to focus on a single woman who was not a domestic or living with her parents.

The 1950s "Private Secretary" was about a single woman who was not a domestic or living with her parents.

R12 “one of” does not mean it was the first, it means it was one of the first.

R13 In fact. That's why I posted an example of "one of", that came before it.

In fact the lead character makes Mary look like a wimp. She was a former member of the Women's Army Corps. She had her own office. Was not subservient to her boss. And stated that she had no interest in getting married.

R14 in real life 1950s she would struggle.

[quote] Marlo’s tried to make out that it was in some way a breakthrough for women's roles on TV.

It was a breakthrough in many ways. You had to be there to appreciate it.

There was some MTM marathon all weekend and Mary just comes across so weak as a women in it. I forgot about that. It was annoying me. Ann Marie may have been a doting daughter to her father many times but she was never came across as weak. Silly, foolhardy sometimes but not weak.

Bitch WERQED those fake eyelashes.

My 1950s show, "Our Miss Brooks" preceded "Private Secretary" on TV, and was also a radio show in 1948, bitches.

R18 Yes, and Eve Arden and Ann Sothern had balls that Marlo and Mary did not.

"It's Always Jan" was about a single mother, aspiring actress.

1956.

Is it true that the Paley Center has parts of Marlo's original nose?

55 years. That’s getting pretty old. I Love Lucy is going on 70 years old. I often think about old media and how weird will it be when people 100 or 200 years from now are able to look at old sitcoms and things like that and see in vivid color what life was like centuries ago. It would be like us having color video of Abe Lincoln talking and moving about. Ah well, the earth will probably be toast in a few more decades anyway.

i still occasionally watch episodes on FIlmRIse TV Classics channel.

[quote]The pilot is remarkable for what I’m guessing was a set of a mid century modern office building that inexplicably has a third tiered antique store on the upper floors where Ann Marie and Donald meet cute fighting over a roll-top desk.

The ORIGINAL pilot was weird.

[quote]The only episode never shown during the series' original network run was the pilot produced in 1965. The major differences were evident in its opening credits. Bessell's character was Don Blue Sky, Ann Marie's talent agent who was part Cherokee, and Harold Gould and Penny Santon played her parents.

I watched it from the beginning. There wasn’t much to choose from in those days. I liked her hair and some of her outfits, but even at the time I thought the show was outdated. And the way she mugged and rolled her eyes all the time got old real fast. There was absolutely nothing original about this show.

Also she had two different apartments. That was never explained. The first one was in a building that appeared to be located along a highway and the second one was in a brownstone. Both had strange layouts though.

At the time I actually thought that was her real hair and nose.

This was the first TV show I remember, and I loved it even if I didn't understand it.

Marlo's "multiple" rhinoplasties damaged her sinus cavities and ultimately her voice...

When she's screeching, it sounds similar to twisting Styrofoam...

Marlo grew up believing she WAS a "princess" who was entitled to everything her father had earned with his early success in television.

In spite of Marlo's attempts to rewrite history, the ratings for "That Girl" were never good - the show wasn't even ranked in the top 50 shows for most of its five seasons.

It was a vanity project Danny Thomas negotiated for his daughter.

In spite of all the resources and opportunities she was given, Marlo never developed any discernable comedic skills. Her repertoire was generally limited to waving her arms manically, looking confused or helpless, and otherwise mugging for the camera...

Yet to this day, Marlo claims that she is "Hollywood Royalty" and that she and her father were television and TV sit-com pioneers...

"That Girl" is mostly interesting as a time capsule of the time period in which it was created.

Thanks to some of you folks on DL, I can no longer watch an episode of Make Room for Daddy or That Girl without looking for glass coffee tables, and now thanks to R1 I'm wondering how many there are at St. Judes!

R21 Marlo is a close tie with Joan Rivers for most dramatically changed by plastic surgery, wigs, and makeup. In an ironic twist of fate, Joan as a young girl in the linked photo resembled Anne Frank, whom she would make jokes about later in her career.

We've discussed this show before on DL and that includes Ann Marie's apartments.

Location shots for AM's apartment were either 627 East 54th Street (between York Avenue and FDR Drive, and 344 West 78th Street, Apartment D.

Again all outdoor street shots were done either in advance of series or by season five on location in NYC. Actual filming of indoor shots were on sets at Desilu-Cahuenga Studios in Hollywood, CA.

Another:

Love the show. Love Marlo and Ted. Love the opening credits. Memorable in TV history.

It was a young, hip show. Teri Garr, Rob Reiner and Sally Kellerman all had early-career speaking roles on the series.

WHET Bonnie Scott, a delightful young actress who played Ann's best friend in the first season and then was mysteriously dumped for a string of less attractive actresses. Scott had starred opposite Robert Morse in the original How to Succeed in Business on Broadway.

R33

Married young and retired...

I was relatively young and found Ted Bissell to be very attractive. Also sweet. As someone said above he was the ideal boyfriend.

I thought he was Jewish but apparently was a big Catholic and daily mass attendee.

Died sadly in the late 90s in his 60s.

Yes, there is a thread devoted to Ted/Don r35

A lot of classic shows that are beloved and remembered weren’t Top 40 shows, or barely cracked it. The Brady Bunch is another. You would think it was a Top 10 show, it never was.

Some of those are more remembered and loved than the bigger hits of the time

Marlo was a regular on the first season (1961-62) of "The Joey Bishop Show" (another with Danny Thomas connections.) She played Joey's younger sister, another aspiring actress. After the show was completely revamped, her character, along with everyone else from that season, disappeared.

I thought it was a hit show and had great ratings. Everybody seemed to know of it at the time but they didn't watch it?

I caught it in reruns when I was 5, of course most of it went over my head. I fell in love with Marlo (we watched Free to Be in school) & got confused; my mother’s name is Margo & they did kinda look alike. Every day in kindergarten I would sign up for the easel, & draw the same pic: a close up of a woman’s face with her black hair in a flip, & I’d give it to my mom. Eventually my teacher asked me to pick a different activity as there were only 2 easels. I don’t know how I got to hog it for so long.

The show became more popular when ABC started rerunning it at noon on weekdays. Hausfraus loved to watch it and dream of having Marlo's life while they did their ironing.

I loved the beginning scenes of the show where someone would ultimately say, "That Girl!", meaning the Marlo Thomas character. It was very unique and endearing.

Adorable, r40.

It did well enough to last for 5 seasons… so it did well.

Looks like she just received an obscene phone call.

Fresh faced and dewey eyed with the famous wide brim hat.

Doing her imitation of Cleopatra.

R46 are you ok?

Boy, was she a spoiled princess. Employee of hers wrote a book about her. "That Girl and Phil." Trashy, entertaining read. Not for people who idolize Marlo.

83 years old!

r41 You mean like this?

R44 wrote:

[quote] Looks like she just received an obscene phone call.

Yes, her cook called to say dinner would be 5 minutes late tonight.

As R48 said, you can read all about it.

Did her parents have the cook make the food at their house and then drop it off at Ann Marie’s on their commute back into the city?

Damn, Marlo turns 84 in November.

R52 I meant it was Marlo Thomas on the set receiving the call from her home, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Lou Marie brought food from his restaurant in Brewster to Ann sometimes, thinking she must be starving as an actress!

I'm another who saw it back when I was 4 or 5 and it's just a happy, fuzzy memory for me. I sure remember the opening credits, though!

That Girl opening theme

...almost but not quite as iconic as The Mary Tyler Moore Show opening theme. MTM is queen, but That Girl was pretty damn good.

I found Don cuter than any of the guys on MTM

That Girl...longer theme

The opening of the first fours seasons was instrumental, credits and the beginning shots of the train tracks (from Brwester, NY to The Big Apple) with shots of Marlo in NYC. The fifth season added the That Girl lyrics: "Diamonds, daisies..."

The theme has great orchestration especially as Marlo flies her kite and walks through Lincoln Center with her short purple frilly dress and umbrella. The show was filmed at the Desilu Studios in Los Angeles.

Marlo posted this clip of the time she met Phil 😍🥰🤩

I didn't know until I saw a vid of her on YouTube talking about it recently, that in the show's mid-seasons she started parting her hair in the middle but the network wanted her to keep her iconic flip-with-bangs hairdo and, so, made her wear fake bangs. I loved the openings, and the last season's new theme opening with singers. But I thought it was kind of lazy that after all that, and Marlo's complete mod look makeover in that final year of the show, they didn't film a new intro and still used the previous few years' one featuring the old flip-do Marlo ("Mary," yes, but I was crestfallen by it all!). :)

I was told by Kappa Alpha Theta sorority women, or "Thetas" as they were known at UGA, that Marlo was a proud member of Kappa Alpha Theta chapter at USC when she was student there in the late 1950s.

The "That Girl" theme song and opening credits are loaded with Kappa Alpha Theta symbolism - including the kite in the Theta colors gold and black, diamonds, and daisies.

At my university, the Thetas biggest rivals were women of the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority, whose primary symbol was the golden key. The Thetas would sing,

"Kappa Kappa Gammas, they wear their golden key, but just what the hell it opens is a mystery to me." "Oh Kappa Alpha Theta, give me the black and gold!"

Poor Marlo - a victim of aggressive plastic surgery

She's another Hollywood nose flesh amputee, who like Michael Jackson, has discovered that many doctors will reduce the size of your nose

But once the damage is done, it's also impossible to rebuild and restore those collapsed nostrils (which can be useful for breathing)

[quote]I found Don cuter than any of the guys on MTM

Ummm....he was ON the MTM show.

R63 but no longer young

Most episodes were total clunkers, but one I did love was a flashback to when she was a school teacher at some private school and stayed over the Christmas holiday because one little boy was there all alone except for the janitor. The little boy was played by the kid who voiced Schroeder in the Charlie Brown Christmas Special. I loved that episode.

"That Girl" was no "Love on a Rooftop"

And I'll take Judy Carne and Peter Duel over Marlo and Ted.

Peter Duel was nothing to sneeze at. I always wondered why somebody so attractive would kill himself. I know, I know it's a ridiculous way to think and anybody can suffer deep depression and mental illness. But I can't help thinking sheesh if I were only as attractive as Peter Duel...

I’m like 99% sure those train shots are in New Jersey in the shows opening, not coming from upstate New York.

As I mentioned earlier too, as did others, this show seems to work best for the under the age of10 audience in loving and embracing it.

Yes, it was from NJ

I actually always thought those train shots were coming from upstate NY. It kind of ruins it that they were shot in NJ.

Ann’s parents looked so old. Her father had a pervy obsession with her sex life.

Nah he had a pervy obsession with Merman.

The show was very old fashioned compared with MTM. She was tied to her parents and was never without Don Hollinger and her characterization was so ditzy.

R74 some women are still like that… they’re two different shows and characters. Did we need two shows where the women are exactly the same?

Stop, and have a Pop with me.

That Girl is iconic.

In some ways, Ann and Don were like Lucy and Ricky.

Considering what was happening in the US from 1966 on, this show seems like it's in a 1950s bubble. Corny, juvenile and dated. I liked the dad though. His sarcasm was funny.

A lot of things in 1966 were no different for some people than they were in the 1950s.

Ann Marie grew up in the 50s, btw.

R71

We covered this in another DL discussion of "That Girl".

Yes, train shots for opening credits were done in New Jersey from train in the opening sequence of the series was shot at Secaucus Junction, in Secaucus, NJ. It was filmed out of the back of the train as it headed northwest, then the film was reversed, making it appear to be heading towards Newark. That is why traffic on the New Jersey Turnpike (running parallel to the right, with Laurel Hill in the background) is moving backwards.

R67

Pete Duel suffered from severe depression mostly brought on by his alcoholism. About a year or so before committing suicide Peter Duel plead guilt to a driving while intoxicated accident that badly harmed two persons.

Scores if not hundreds of "attractive" persons have committed suicide. List of porn actors or models is rather long on that score.

There's an episode of SATC where Carrie manages to nab and bed a young hot model. Turns out all the guy wanted to do in bed was cuddle and talk because his mental state was fucked up.

Of course they were R79. But not in Manhattan.

R81 she didn’t grow up in Manhattan, dear. She was a transplant.

Ratings wise TG may have been "moderately" successful, but though out it's entire run the show never broke above thirties in viewer rankings.

That being said That Girl did have a solid following (likely among fraus) so ABC kept it going until season five. By that time Marlo Thomas had enough and didn't want to do the show any longer.

Ann Marie finally said "yes" to Donald and the couple got engaged, that is far as things went. Marlo Thomas felt Ann Marie marrying would be a sell out to the various feminists ideals That Girl championed.

Too bad really, a show finale with Donald and Ann Marie marrying probably would have been a ratings hit.

Another weird thing about the train footage during the intro song is that if you watch closely they're actually showing the traffic in the distance moving backwards and I suppose the train is too.

It did fine in the ratings.

Prevailing attitude even late as 1970's was while nice girls could move to the big city and get a job after college, this was only a brief stint before their natural lot in life; to marry.

Carly Simon's great hit "That's The Way I've Always Heard It Should Be" also came out in 1971. That song resonated with many young women of middle to upper class backgrounds.

They'd been to college and all that, yet the overwhelming message was they needed to marry. OTOH opposing messages were telling them all sorts of things were opening up for women, and as such they didn't need or have to marry if they didn't wish.

R85

If you say so... That Girl did beat "Love On A Rooftop", so that's something anyway.

R86 that message that a woman should marry was still strong, even in the 80s. That’s American culture. It was not until the later 80s we saw more and more women being shown as strong, and even then most women in real life weren’t feminists. This is reality.

As for Ann Marie, she was never considered a feminist, but she was not considered some domesticated wife type either. She was your average girl who wanted to be an actress. Nothing political behind it. MTM character was a legitimate second-wave feminist. Ann Marie was not. That is where the difference was.

Again, more women were not for feminism than were for it back then.

I’m surprised that Ann Marie didn’t live at the Barbizon or another woman’s only hotel, that seems more likely based on her parents. Then there could have been all kinds of hijinks trying to sneak Donald in and he could have dressed in drag more often then he did, which he would have loved.

MTM was a Top 30 show for most of its run but it never ended a season above that. It was not the monster ratings hit you think either. It was just a critical darling, and CBS put a lot more money and effort into it than ABC did with That Girl.

Also, CBS was #1 in the 70s, ABC was the bottom. Most of their shows weren’t performing as well.

Did Ann and Don ever go to Harlem? Did they ever run into Andy Warhol's crowd? Did Ann ever meet any gay people in the theater, dancers perhaps? Did they ever go to any folk music clubs, perhaps to hear Bob Dylan? No doubt all of these mid-1960s New Yorkers would have loved her white gloves and parasol.

Marlo Thomas herself used word "feminist" in interviews when discussing why That Girl ended without Ann Marie marrying Donald.

Ms. Thomas felt it would be selling out in that by Ann Marie marrying it would reinforce message that was all this is for young women.

In real life Ted Bessell likely never would have dated Ann Marie long as Don did on show. He was a devout Catholic who wanted nothing more in his personal life to be a husband and father. His first wife flat out refused to have sex with her husband starting with honeymoon. Next came another marriage that didn't work out which was also annulled. Finally third time was the charm.

R92 yes, Marlo inserted herself into the finale and didn’t want her to get married. But that was the shows final season, and one can say Ann Marie grew to be a more independent and strong woman by the end of the show, aka GROWTH. Do you know what that is?

In season 1 we see a young woman transplant to NYC from a very sheltered home in the suburbs. Do you think that girl is gonna change the minute her foot hits NYC ground? Your upbringing and where you’re from will always be a part of you, even if you move to NYC. With time you may grow and change, but it happens over time.

Her character sounds a lot more real than MTM

I see it less as a quality show, which it’s not, and more as an interesting pop culture echo of the tumult of the late 60s. After all, it perfectly brackets that period. It certainly isn’t political, but you do notice a subtle shift in tone as the years wear on.

Marriage: go to 2:00 of the link. 2:00 to Lucy's exit. This is 1959. Before Marlo and Mary.

Marriage: go to 2:00 of the link. 2:00 to Lucy's exit. This is 1959. Before Marlo and Mary.

The show was charming. Lew Marie was hilarious. The writing was pretty tight. Ted Bessel was a very good actor, very good at comedy.

Here's Ted's O-face, tee-hee.

I saw Marlo Thomas in a production of Six Degrees of Separation in SF in the late 80’s and she was marvelous.

Really, how many of us *haven't* used Ann's recipe for crispins to liven up our party trays?

I was Marlo on that gender swap TV movie remake of Its a Wonderful Life and she should have been put in jail and the key thrown away forever!

Off topic, but did Phil Donahue eat Marlo's pussy? He doesn't seem the type.

Always wondered just how a restaurant owner from Brewster became so well off.

Ann Marie's father footed her NYC lifestyle to great extent, and kept up a wife and home in suburbs.

Yes, r102, how *did* she manage to have that kicky Cardinale and Werle wardrobe?

I think she was turning tricks on the side as a high end call girl, exclusive to European and Middle Eastern clients.

Ann could type very well!

R89

Barbizon hotel for women like most others didn't allow men upstairs, period. FWIU not even fathers, brothers, cousins or any other close male relation got a pass.

Gentlemen were received on main floor in lobby set aside for such things, and that's all.

Obviously with such restrictions nearly all the plot lines for That Girl wouldn't have happened. Donald was always over at Ann Marie's place for various reasons.

More:

R105

So could hundreds of other young and older women. From graduates of Seven Sisters colleges to those from Katherine Gibbs. Secretaries and typists were a dime a dozen in 1960's and 1970's, their pay was not al that great. More to the point Ann Marie never held a steady job where she at least would have chances at raises or promotions.

There was just no way a struggling (more like wanna be) actress like Ann Marie could have afforded to live on her own, and or had lifestyle she did just from her own wages. It was either Bank of Daddy or she was doing somebody.....

There were outliers... If you were someone like Paula McFadden (Goodbye Girl) and was plugged into nabbing cheap rent regulated apartment, that would be different.

Marlo Thomas actually did debut a "That Girl" fashion line that sold on HSN.

Ms. Thomas does acknowledge in a way that Ann Marie, an often out of work actress, could never have afforded fashions worn on the show. But since Marlo Thomas was executive producer she had huge pull in wardrobe area, and she used it to liven things up.

Yes, there were knock offs back in 1960's and 1970's of designer fashions, but Ann Marie was often wearing the real thing. Again just no way that could have happened in real life. Well not unless the actress in question was working as an escort or something.

As I said earlier, the high end fashion and great apartment was because off camera what we didn’t see was her life as a high end call girl for elite European and Middle Eastern gentlemen. Buffy and Jodie’s mother, before she died, was the Heidi Fleiss of1960’s Manhattan and AnnMarie was one of her best girls.

[quote]Most episodes were total clunkers, but one I did love was a flashback to when she was a school teacher at some private school and stayed over the Christmas holiday because one little boy was there all alone except for the janitor. The little boy was played by the kid who voiced Schroeder in the Charlie Brown Christmas Special. I loved that episode.

This is one of the few episodes I've seen.

One of the other ones I remember has Ann trying to decide how to spend her SAG check.

Marlo's godmother, Loretta Young, advised her to go with Werle for her look on the show, r109.

[quote]Her father had a pervy obsession with her sex life.

What sex life?

Ann tried to go more "mod" in the final season, when she lost the bangs and wore a lot of semi-hippie stuff.

It was easy for a restaurant owner to make a shit ton in the 1940s/50s/60s.

You all keep looking back on these shows with modern eyes. It was easy back then. Especially if you were WHITE. And straight.

[quote] Considering what was happening in the US from 1966 on, this show seems like it's in a 1950s bubble. Corny, juvenile and dated.

Compared to the other shows at the time, like "Gormer Pykle, USMC" (where they never once mentioned the Viet Nam War was going on) or "Petticoat Junction," this was pretty hip, actually.

*"Gomer Pyle, USMC," not "Gormer Pykle, USMC"

It was a good show that didn’t have any politics. That’s how it should be.

How I will always remember Ann...

I like the show where they try to get tickets to Mame with Angela but it's a sold out hit so they end up seeing Mimi Hines in Funny Girl which at that point had been running as long as Cats so who can't get into that?

Ted Bessell died from an aneurysm when he was only 61.

Ted Bessell's greatest show business success was as the character of Donald on That Girl. In later years he got into directing and found some success there.

Eureka!! Gay (in real life) Billy De Wolfe played a guest role on the show!!! He was always such a character!!

Though not well known today aside from those in certain circles, Daniel Werle (of Beverly Hills) was a highly popular designer in his day.

He dressed Loretta Young, Gloria Swanson, Barbara Stanwyck, along with Marlo Thomas. In addition he also did costume work for television (the Loretta Young Show).

Werle of Beverly Hills items pop up on eBay, Esty, and other usual haunts for vintage designer fashions, and go for very good money.

You can see some of Werle of Beverly Hills things here....

Daniel Werle wasn't bad looking either....

Daniel Werlé (alternate spelling) IMDB page.

Flip side of things was while some "career women" managed to combine successful profession or business back then, many more ended up like Amanda Farrow (Best of Everything). Childless spinsters who either out of devotion to their careers and or always playing hard when young, assumed gentlemen callers would keep lining up.

At some point things taper off in the romance area as men look to something younger and fluffier. Leaving those career gals to find love or whatever where and when they could.

R128 In others exactly like today.

The BEST part of the show was the opening of the show, especially the part when Marlo wave high to her mannequin self in the department store window.

I would totally go to an exhibit of That Girl fashions. I’m still mad I missed that fashion exhibit on costumes from Mad Men.

Ted Bessell and Marlo Thomas in later years.

She did look stunning back in the day.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

The show is one year younger than me! I remember watching it in syndication…I thought it was okay. My favorite episodes were the two Ethel Merman guest appearances and the one with the opening scene of Ann playing a dead woman on live tv and she opens her eyes when she thinks that the camera isn’t on her. When she realized that she was being filmed, the look on her face was classic.

Agreed, R33, I always thought that Bonnie Scott was the prettiest and most appealing of Ann’s friends on “That Girl”. Her husband on the show was played by Dabney Coleman, if memory serves. Interesting that she left two impressive and high-profile gigs (“That Girl” and “How to Succeed” ) early in their runs.

As a kid, it seemed to present such a a glamorous view of New York, so it was a surprise to learn that it was shot in California. I saw an interview with Marlo Thomas where she said that they shot all the exterior footage of Ann and Don walking down streets, going into buildings etc. at the very start of the season (or maybe between seasons) and they would be edited into the shows later.

The genre of the modern breezy single career girl living on her own really started with Doris Day in Pillow Talk.

Besides "Our Miss Brooks" and "Private Secretary", Marlo and Mary owe a lot to Doris.

In fact, it always seemed to me that Marlo studied Doris' comic style.

R137 youre comparing a film to a show. Not the same in those days

DL's view of facts.

Ding Dongs!

Ho-Hos!

Twinkies!

FAT GIRL!

Awww. And Marlo was only 35 at the time.

Pass the potatoes, Ethel Merman...

I watch it daily on Antenna TV. Ted Bessell was hot. In the last season, when the fashions had changed to '70s styles, he usually wore tight pants that showed off his thick butt. And speaking of butts, Bernie Kopell as Ted's friend on the show had an ass that you could balance a drink on. Watch from the 6:20 to the 8:10 mark in this video.

Was Marlo Thomas the original Bonnie Franklin?

Compared with Franklin, Marlo was the Streep of 60s tv. She did have a flair for comedy and chemistry with her castmates.

[quote] She did look stunning back in the day.

It was those dark Lesbian eyes.

How many junior queens in small towns and dreary suburbs dreamed of living like Ann Marie in the credit sequence, romping through Central Park, twirling down Shubert Alley, and finally just messing up your glorious shiny hair and throwing your arms in the air?

R146

Lebanese Blanche, Lebanese!

[quote] twirling down Shubert Alley,

The twirling is done at Lincoln Center.

[quote] romping through Central Park, twirling down Shubert Alley, and finally just messing up your glorious shiny hair and throwing your arms in the air

OP has done all those things.

I loved the show because of Ann Marie's style...the stylish mod clothes she wore. It was a fashion show. Some of those clothes could be worn today, even though it was the trend then, there was a classic element to them. I loved her flip hairdo and makeup. She looked adorable. The last year of the show, she became more bohemian, or hippy in her style.. but I like her earlier look better. Now when I watch the show, I become a little annoyed with her over-the-top perkiness and mugging. At times, she's too good to be true. It's a bit eye rolling. I still enjoy watching, though.

I don't know why the flip hairdo doesn't make a comeback. It's very flattering, and I think a classic.

Her hair had grown a lot in that last season. Were they extensions?

[quote]OP has done all those things.

Probably no longer than four hours ago.

r153 Did extensions exist in 1970?

Extensions have been around since Cleopatra.

Was Cleopatra over extended?

Extensions were called switches when women wore them in the Old West.

There were hair pieces called falls in the 60s and 70s.

Bring back wiglets and wighats!

[quote]There were hair pieces called falls in the 60s and 70s.

Yes, I remember those, but I never heard the term "extensions" until several decades later.

So is it a fall in the last season or not?

R162 - No, but Ted Bessel did.

R151

Many actresses in late 1960's through 1970's television sitcoms or whatever changed their look adapting to changes in real world.

Elizabeth Montgomery as Samantha Stephens ditched the suburban Connecticut wife/mother/matron look towards middle of series. It was then all mod boots, mini skirts or dresses.... She let her hair grow long ditching that cute Jackie Kennedy bouffant. Towards end of Bewitched Sam in a few episodes it is clear Sam wasn't even wearing a bra.....

Hair "switches" have been around at least since Victorian period if not before.

Main difference between switches and extension is that former were or are used when doing updo hair styles, while latter are used to give length and perhaps volume to hair that is worn down.

If you look at Naomi Campbell (who by the way has hairline that starts around her ears from wearing extensions now for decades), her hair always is worn down and basically in same style. You cannot do up hair with weave extensions because it won't lay flat.

Switches and extensions may look same in that both usually are long pony tails of hair. But with extensions that hair is then divided into smaller bits of strands that are woven, sewn or glued onto existing hair. With a switch you use entire piece as is to achieve desired hair style.

Falls are half or three-quarter bits of hair (basically half or less of a wig) designed to attach towards back of head then covered over with some natural hair. Like Marlo Thomas in "That Girl" it gives illusion of longer and fuller hair.

In Mame film when Ms. Denis is informed Patrick's trustee Mr. Babcock is coming to visit she wants to look "respectable". On advice from Vera Charles about doing something with her hair Mame shrieks out "that's it, a switch...", and pulls out a box of hair pieces in various colors.

Theatre queens may recall Patti Lupone sitting in front of a dressing table and removing a long braid of hair that made up Evita's hairstyle in musical.

In the last season of That Girl, Marlo Thomas ditched the bangs and parted her hair in the middle.

R167 Try THIS instead!

Marlo Thomas is best friends with sourpuss Gloria Steinem.

I'd take Donald's extension anytime.

Always felt Samantha Stephens hit it out of the ballpark fashion wise in early Bewitched episodes.

Unlike That Girl, tons of what Sam wore even well into her "Mod" period are timeless and would look smashing today.

What I liked about Sam was she like my Mom and others I knew growing up didn't wear pearls, high heels and fancy dresses for house cleaning, Sam wore jeans, petal pushers, oversized men's shirts, etc.. Just like real life moms!

Anyone sew?

Did every episode begin with someone saying which girl? That girl.

I can remember the reruns playing when I was very young. I think I thought that was funny. Not sure if it was just once or on every show.

R173,

Answer to your query is yes.

"The running gag of having the pre-credit sequence ending with a character referring to Ann as "that girl" was originally only supposed to be used in the pilot as it was believed that they would never be able to keep finding ways to work it into the conversation. It ended up being used in almost all the episodes."

I beat her debut by a couple of months. Just saying...

Fake hair, eyelashes, nose and teeth, but I loved Marlo Thomas in the remake of "It's A Wonderful Life" titled "It Happened One Christmas".

Do you suppose Marlo Thomas knew about her dad's fetish for watching hookers shit from underneath glass coffee tables? If so, that would have made a hell of a storyline. Ratings galore!

Oh, and I forgot that Marlo Thomas wrote the children's book "Free To Be You And Me".

From another DL thread about "That Girl" (there are so many...). Marlo Thomas in hair and make-up test film footage.

Just where did "Ann Marie" get that designer dress, and chinchilla fur stole?

Miss. Ghurl was turning dates on the side... Donald Hollinger was just to naïve to put two and two together.

Remember when Ted Bessel was looking like they were going to make him Mary's permanent boyfriend on MTM. She even called Rhoda to tell her how in love she was.

Even as a kid it seemed odd that they were recycling Marlo's ex boyfriend.

He evidently wasn't popular because after a few episodes he is just gone never to be mentioned again.

R180

We've done that already.

Idea of Mary settling down and getting married didn't sit will with good part of fan base. They were already complaining as things began getting serious between MTM and Ted, so the thing was just abandoned.

Where could it have gone anyway? A married MTM would not have been remotely same as the career minded single woman. Entire premise and indeed popularity of MTM show was built upon MTM being an independent woman going it alone in world without a husband. It showed young women of 1970's they had other options besides marriage or convent.

MTM also showed young women they didn't have to settle for "pink ghetto" jobs like secretary or whatever.

MTM marrying was seen as selling or coping out, a message neither MTM nor anyone else connected with show wanted to send at that time.

Lord knows Rhoda getting married didn't do that show a world of good. Well it did at start until they killed off Joe and almost tried to make it as if Rhoda never married/the guy even existed.

It is almost still a universal truth in television today, sitcoms that start off with single persons tend to begin going down hill once marriage enters picture. That hill is greased further once children start popping up.

[quote] Entire premise and indeed popularity of MTM show was built upon MTM being an independent woman going it alone in world without a husband. It showed young women of 1970's they had other options besides marriage or convent.

Actually in the first few seasons (the first one especially) Mary is very much interested in being a wife and mother. There is one where Lou shows her his novel, Gordy's idea for a musical or something, Ted's screenplay (or something like that.) He says everybody here has some other ambition don't you. Mary says no, just wife and mother to which Lou frowns.

They sort of changed it later on that Mary was this ambitious woman who always wanted to work in TV news. In actuality she just applies for a secretarial job in the first season.

Is there a thread you are referring to r181 that discusses this more in depth?

R177 wrote:

[quote] Marlo Thomas wrote the children's book "Free To Be You And Me."

I wonder how free to be himself Phil Donohue has felt being married to Marlo.

[QUOTE] petal pushers

Oh, dear

I preferred the 90s reboot, "That Woman", starring Monica Lewinsky.

Only on DataLounge could a thread about That Girl turn into a conversation about hairdos.

Re: Marlo's designer clothes:

Clothiers like Orbach's and even Sears made knock-offs of designer clothes.

Sears 1966

^ My point being that women of the time could dress in a stylish tailored look while on a budget.

If I were a woman I'd want that canary yellow coat.

Wear what you want. You are free to be....

Unlike Mary, who could turn the world on with a smile, Anne Marie tried with a wink.

How come Marlo didn’t do another tv series? I saw her in The Shadow Box in NYC and of course on Friends, but it seemed like acting was a hobby for her.

She must have inherited a shit load of money from her dad.

Greg Brady, aka Barry Williams did an autobiography and talks about his time doing That Girl. I don't remember much except that he said Marlo spent most of her time on her hair and he used to wonder if he could bounce coins off it because it was so stiff.

She really should have be “The hair” of a national Acquanet campaign.

Marlo Thomas did more television work in 1970's and 1980's after "That Girl", but not a huge amount.

Things seemed to change by 1990's and onward as worked picked up for MT; Fraiser, Ally McBeal, Friends, Law and Order, Ugly Betty

This is an interesting open because Marlo dares show a photo of a pre-nose job Marlo.

I wonder if while filming on the pier, Marlo slid in some cum left by a gay tryst the previous evening?

[quote] It was a young, hip show. Teri Garr, Rob Reiner and Sally Kellerman all had early-career speaking roles on the series.

Richard Dreyfuss popped up as a wisecracking waiter. I watch it on Antennae TV when I want background noise. The character inexplicably shows up talking like a gangster as Ann and her father have dessert in a restaurant. Ann explains he is a fellow actor. He keeps popping back up in the episode to imitate 1940s movie stars.

I remember reading that Donald and Ann were not allowed to appear in her apartment together with the door closed. If the door is closed, someone else is in the apartment with them. The neighbor, her parents, a delivery man. Nobody else in the apartment - door open. The network wouldn’t allow it. They may have changed that rule.

Ann lived in a bizarre apartment in some of the episodes. Looked like the inside of a cuckoo clock or kitschy German restaurant. It had a cluttered attic look, but when she opened the apartment door, the hallway is in a modern (for that time) apartment building.

I used to think “that’s what I’ll do — I’ll move to Manhattan, get an apartment, wear fabulous clothes - a different outfit every day, never wear the same clothes twice. I’ll get a boyfriend who is steady and safe …he’ll take me out to dinner & to the theater, but I’ll do kooky things when he’s not around. I’ll have kooky friends, but I’ll also have doctor friends who live across the hall from my kooky apartment. And I’d have perfect hair, false eyelashes, whiter than white straight teeth.” I was very poor, so it was a relief to me that I’d be able to move to NYC and afford a fabulous life once I grew up.

Ann’s bohemian look in the final season mirrored Samantha on Bewitched. Samantha went from perky housewife in a flip to the Mamas and the Papas. She could be hanging in Topanga Canyon with Joni Mitchell and Steven Stills the way she dressed, but instead she’s married to this angry gay guy who won’t let her do magic.

Richard Dreyfuss also popped up on Bewitched, playing a warlock infatuated with Sam (he turned himself into a dog to gain entry into Stephens' home and be near Samantha).

Sam finally gets fed up and sends for the one witch who can put a stop to all the nonssense, said warlocks' mother.

[quote]Only on DataLounge could a thread about That Girl turn into a conversation about hairdos.

Gasp!

How could a "That Girl" thread NOT discuss hairdos and hairdo maintenance?

[quote] She must have inherited a shit load of money from her dad.

R193 Not to mention a shit load of used glass coffee tables.

Anne-Marie and Don in Times Square when it was NY's Times Square. Hawaii is at the DeMille and Gwen is in Sweet Charity at the Palace while other Broadway hits are advertised.

It seems to have been taken during the same photoshoot where they are sitting on the edge of the little garden behind the statue of George M.

Barry Williams was in ONE episode. He played a kid asking Ann for her autograph.

Wonderful photo at R203!

Who's Anne-Marie, r203?

Obviously an inspiration for Brini, r147.

Men were always hitting on her in the show. I don't blame them. Donald would get jealous, but he always ended up being very understanding. He was the perfect boyfriend.

I wanted to look like her and be her.

Donald was a total beta, Ann Marie needed a take charge Alpha male boyfriend.

I hardly remember this series, because I was so young, but that scene in the opening where she sees herself in the store window and the "mannequin" winks, takes me straight back to 5 years old again.

Donald was such a mild mannered, accommodating guy & Lou Marie was always accusing him of sexually molesting his daughter.

Donald must’ve been beating of EVERY night because Ann was [italic]not[/italic] giving it up.

[quote] Donald was a total beta, Ann Marie needed a take charge Alpha male boyfriend.

Both Donald and Ann Marie needed a take-charge Alpha boyfriend.

Donald loved when Anne talked about her dates with other men so much he insisted they dance sans music. Anne used to tease him about getting eaten out. He used it to JO later.

Donald was actually trolling gay book stores on 8th Avenue in the late evening. Ann was his beard for corporate functions. Young men in the 60s were not waiting.

She was adorable. Did she never do any acting before this? Or after for that matter?

With a last name like Marie, was she supposed to be some sort of Italian? I’m going by memory but I think the father seemed a little ethnic.

R112 Godmother, that’s interesting. Prominent Hollywood Catholics I guess?

Marlo was good in Consenting Adult, the 1985 TV movie where she and Martin Sheen come to grips with their son’s homosexuality.

Lol r219 I read the first line of the description as "Young and shitty Jeff..." in Consenting Adults.

R219 - The original script for "Consenting Adults" was Jeff coming out as Haitian.

I always found the last name "Marie" to be amusing. Lew Marie. Ann Marie.

I was at a dinner party with Marlo Thomas back in 1989. She was lovely.

R223 details?

Did she scream at the maitre'd?

[quote] Did she scream at the maitre'd?

No, were were at a friend's house not a restaurant.

[quote]Did she scream at the maitre'd?

It's spelled maître d'. Short for maître d'hôtel.

[quote] It's spelled maître d'. Short for maître d'hôtel.

Honey, you're in the wrong thread. Go look for the "I'm bored. Let's have a useless/trivia facts thread"

It’s too bad they didn’t do a British version of That Girl with Catherine Zeta Jones.

It would have been fun to hear everybody say “That gull”.

They could have even done a funny episode where when the person says “That Girl” they pointed to Queen Elizabeth.

I remember Marlo guesting as a witch in the last Halloween episode of the Roseanne series in the 90s.

That wasn't acting, bitch!

How was Donald able to put up with not getting any from Anne? Surely he must have visit a brothel now and then? He had needs!

He was depicted as being as puritanical as her. They had PLENTY of opportunity.

R231 - Because he was a gay, darling. A GAY!

[quote] How was Donald able to put up with not getting any from Anne?

It was the1960s. It wasn’t just Hollywood stars that needed a beard. Donald did what he had to do. Although Mavis in Personnel noticed that Donald was absent from work on Monday June 30, 1969.

R231

In real world Ann Marie would have either put out, got engaged and married Donald, or eventually lost him when he got tired of waiting.

In real life we know Ted Bessell like many other men at the time wanted to marry and start a family. No one had time to wait around two, three or more years while their flakey GF tried to make it as an actress.

Donald was a nice well brought up guy. He likely understood that nice girls such as Ann Marie didn't do *that* sort of thing before marriage. So AM would have had to either marry or lose Donald eventually.

OTOH New York City then was no different than now; plenty of single young girls who weren't too worried about being labeled "nice" would have made their moves on Donald. Sooner or later the guy would have succumbed. I mean if he's not getting anything from AM, nor is marriage in immediate future, a man does have needs.

There was an episode on the other day where Donald's slutty new young secretary puts the moves on him, and makes it clear to Ann that she has designs on her man. They end up taking a work trip to D.C. together, and the secretary slinks into his room wearing a short skirt and sits across from him with her legs crossed ala The Graduate. It takes some doing, but Donald is able to rebuff her advances, telling her that he left his heart in a walk-up apartment with a classy little brunette from Brewster, NY.

R236

Bitch fucked it up! She should have said; Donald, if you won't sleep with me this time I want you to know that you can call me up anytime you want and we'll make some kind of arrangement.

Donald frequently slipped out of his office at Seagram's building and strolled over to 53rd and Third.

[quote] Donald is able to rebuff her advances, telling her that he left his heart in a walk-up apartment with a classy little brunette from Brewster, NY.

Was he referring to Bud Cort?

Ann didn't give Donald any pussy but she was a skilled cocksucker. She knew how to take care of her man and still stay a virgin like all good Catholic girls.

[quote]I wonder if while filming on the pier, Marlo slid in some cum left by a gay tryst the previous evening?

Of course not, she was steered around the loads by Ted, a true gentleman.

If there can be a Diana: The Musical, why not a That Girl: The Musical?

That Girl was filmed at Desilu. I wonder if Lucille Ball came in and blew smoke in Marlo’s face?

Lucy (croaking): Marlo, you’re a funny kid, you do physical comedy real good, but you’ve got to let your boyfriend spank you a bit more. You’ve got my throaty voice and you’re “Oh, Donald” almost matched my “Oh, Ricky” but you really do need to let the audience know that the man is in charge.

R164- The show was set in suburban New York. When Darren or Samantha's cars would be shown they always had New York plates.

Who could forget the episode where Ann's face was photoshopped onto a Playboy Centerfold's body and we learn that Donald never even saw Ann naked. I still remember the episode where they were at the park and Ann started laughing when Donald took his shoes and socks off and she said she never saw his ankles before. Yikes!

The show was very old fashioned in many ways. MTM was much more contemporary and of its times.

There was a huge cultural shift between the late 60s and early 70s. It was kind of an overnight thing. They were both of their time.

No they weren't. Women were not surprised to see a man's ankle in 1967.

Yes they were. The sock controversy started with Miami Vice.

[quote] Women were not surprised to see a man's ankle in 1967.

The premise of That Girl was that she had led a sheltered life. That gave them more room to feature the father as a character. And a lot of the humor comes from him. MTM had more maturity than Ann Marie. I’m surprised feminists weren’t more vocal about the show being called “That Girl.” Women were trying to break out of the stereotype of being a girl.

In one of the early episodes, Ann says she went to college and she even fills in as a secretary in Donald’s office, so she has typing and steno ability. So you wonder why in later episodes she’s always scrounging around with crappy jobs. I guess the show tried to keep things loose so that they would have the opportunity for someone to point their finger and say, “That girl.”

The show was dated in its time, as a were almost all the sitcoms of that time. Sponsors played a big role in this---they (through ad agencies) had considerable veto power. The networks played a more active role in the 70s and weren't always all themselves, as sponsors moved to spot advertising rather than sole or shared sponsorship of shows. Thomas never admits this ---someone like Donna Reed, who owned her show but had to deal with micromanagement from Campbell Soup had no trouble talking about this once her show was off the air (a year before That Girl premiered). By taking credit for her show, Thomas really has to own how backward it was even in its own time and that she had far less freedom than she's ever admitted. She also never talks about what a stereotypically ditzy character she played. Ann Sothern, the original career girl on tv, may have had a character that resorted to "feminine wiles" (fat ass and hips not withstanding), but she was practically Betty Friedan by comparison.

R244

Which always struck me as hilarious because when you looked over anyone's shoulders when in town (presumably building where McMann & Tate had offices in mid-town Manhattan), you clearly saw mountains in background. Even as a kid I knew we didn't have mountains like that in NYC.

No internet then, but now of course looking up Bewitched filming locations know things were all done on lots in Hollywood, CA.

r 140: Bless your second-grade playground. You made me laugh harder than anything in a long time.

Yes R252 it always struck me as odd one could see southern California mountains right off of Madison Av. But geography changes over time.

In real life, Ted Bessell’s first wife was a stripper.

^Really?

IMDb.com says she was an exotic dancer.

Donna Maria Gordon was second wife. Yes she was a "stripper" and also "exotic dancer", but also a bit part actress among other things.

Janeen Darrah was first wife of TB. She apparently lied to Ted Bessell about wanting to have children, and indeed from wedding night until end of marriage wouldn't let her husband near her. That marriage not only ended in divorce, but the devout Ted Bessell also obtained an annulment.

Marlo Thomas is older than dirt.

[quote] Marlo Thomas is older than dirt.

Will she take Olivia de Haviland’s place as the “So young” patron saint?

Vera Miles should become the new 'so young!' troll.

Do we know if Vera Miles is really still alive? Or does her cross dressing son keep her cadaver in a chair in the basement?

MTM sucked. I’m sick of the worship for that show.

All 5 seasons of “That Girl” are available to stream on Filmrise Classic TV.

Last night’s episode showed Donald & Ann visiting NY landmarks. They took the Circle Line to the Statue of Liberty. The Circle Line didn’t go to the Statue of Liberty, did it? The skyline of downtown NY was a trip. Pre-WTC, pre-BPC, pre-everything.

[quote]MTM sucked.

But never on the first date.

R265 Was that the one where they try to see Angela in Mame but they can't get tickets so they end up going to see Mimi Hines in Funny Girl? If only we had that choice today.

I watched that episode as well, r267. It actually was a 2-episode arc of Ann getting a Broadway role. She's going to have to go off to Philly for however long for the tryout so she and Don try to cram every NYC activity in before she leaves. When they see the line at the Winter Garden for MAME, Ann pretends to pass out on the sidewalk hoping the people will run to assist giving Don a chance to cut in line. They don't. So they end up at Funny Girl with Mimi.

The second episode is in Philly and Don comes to write a story about an actress making her Broadway debut in a new show. The show stinks and closes in Philly. There's a scene where Ann and Don are sitting waiting for a train. Behind them there's large 3-sheet posters for I Do! I Do! and Fiddler.

There was at least one other time Don wrote a store about Ann. In that storyline, Don was taking a colleague of Ann's out to lunch to ask her questions about Ann, and Ann found out about that with predictable results.

But what kind of journalist writes stories about his own girlfriend?! And what kind of magazine would publish them if he did? I mean, is that even allowed in journalism?

"story" not "store"

Don Blue Sky

Here...

Hello Dolly at the St James across the street from Funny Girl at the Majestic.. Ah New York once upon a time.

That old cunt Marlo Thomas was a roadhouse version of MTM.

[quote] Hello Dolly at the St James across the street from Funny Girl at the Majestic.. Ah New York once upon a time.

In one episode, the marquee is shown and Ginger Rogers is playing Dolly.

r275 And the other marquee shows Mimi Hines was starring in Funny Girl.

Ah New York is full of disappointments.

Mimi Hines' career must have been one long "road show" of something. She also did a lot of summer stock and dinner theater. She's still alive. Husband, Phil Ford, is not. I didn't realize they had divorced ages ago, but then no one has brought her up in ages. Oddly, she did "Love American Style" but not "Murder, She Wrote". Maybe she wasn't so nice to Angela.

R277 Is she available for the touring company of Follies? If she’s in a wheelchair we can prop her up.

This is truly pathetic that I remember this, and yes, I’m old, but I actually remember seeing Mimi Hines and Phil Ford on “Love American Style”!

I don't eat yesterday's stew, r278.

Was Mimi Hines passing? In some photos she looks white adjacent