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B12 injections

Think I fucked up big-time, missing my second one of several I have due. A quick online search tells me that if you miss a dose, the B12 level in your body nosedives and makes health problems worse. Am I going to be in pain for the foreseeable?

Basically I got so caught up yesterday, I forgot to go to the clinic. Tomorrow I need to rebook, which I’m dreading, as I know I’ll be deservedly chewed out by the practice at best and potentially asked to find another doctor at worse (the receptionists at my GP have been getting understandably more draconian and cunty since COVID!”).

by Anonymousreply 60October 17, 2021 5:14 PM

OP, enough.

by Anonymousreply 1September 7, 2021 6:32 PM

B12 is injected and absorbed intramuscularly, so nothing nosedives when you don’t get another. B12 has nothing to do with pain…you typically get it if you’re anemic, so no clue what you’re going on about.

by Anonymousreply 2September 7, 2021 6:36 PM

Miss OP clearly has mental health issues she’s trying to self-treat at the health food & supplements store.

by Anonymousreply 3September 7, 2021 6:53 PM

OP, what kind of quackery are you falling for here?

by Anonymousreply 4September 7, 2021 7:04 PM

It's very easy to administer a b12 dose yourself at home. You could ask them about that rather than having to keep going in for them.

by Anonymousreply 5September 7, 2021 7:46 PM

R5 ah, that’s good to know, I didn’t realise. Thanks for the information, I’ll definitely bring that up when I get my next one. Is it really that easy to administer them oneself? I’m clumsy and cross-dominant (left handed, right brained), so I’m not in the least bit deft with fine motor skills.

R4? If my prescription quackery, then the NHS have got a lot to answer for. My Doctor is governmentally-employed, and insisted that I have these injections. I didn’t just pop down to Boots or Wholefoods and ask them to jab me with whatever they had in.

R2 the reason I was given the course of injections was to treat low levels, that could be causing me parathesthic pains in my extremities as well as breathlessness & fatigue. The weird thing is, according to blood tests I’m not anaemic. My Doctor can’t figure out why it’s happened that my B12 levels have sunk so low without also presenting with anaemia.

R1 please accept my apologies if I’ve caused you any personal upset or offense, though I can’t imagine what that might have been. The nice thing about modern tech is, when someone is upsetting you on a message board, there’s always the option to gloss over or to block without comment.

by Anonymousreply 6September 7, 2021 7:48 PM

OP: b12 is very easy to self-administer. just pinch your thigh and jab the needle in - there’s not much coordination required.

i hope you get your levels up!

by Anonymousreply 7September 7, 2021 8:17 PM

Why bother with that.

I take 500 micrograms of B-12 sublingual every day.

by Anonymousreply 8September 7, 2021 8:19 PM

R8 as far as my research indicates, oral/sublingual is fine as a maintenance for those with adequate levels; however, in people with serious deficiencies, injections are needed over a period of many weeks or months in order to regain equilibrium.

by Anonymousreply 9September 7, 2021 8:24 PM

OP has DONE HIS OWN RESEARCH!

by Anonymousreply 10September 7, 2021 8:24 PM

R9- I've had a B-12 deficiency for MANY years. My doctor told me to take this amount every day.

by Anonymousreply 11September 7, 2021 8:25 PM

Call my receptionist and make an appointment.

by Anonymousreply 12September 7, 2021 8:26 PM

R8/R11 fair enough. If it works for you, it works

Now I’m just wondering what to say to my doctors’ practice to apologise for my forgetfulness. I know they will be furious. Even if I administer my own B12 at home hereafter, I still need a prescription from them, so it isn’t like I can just ghost or pretend everything’s fine. I’m really gonna have to grovel in the morning—what do receptionists and GPs really like to hear?

by Anonymousreply 13September 7, 2021 8:29 PM

OP, its really unlikely that Boots would give you injectable B12 without an Rx and instructions from your doctor. Its injected intramuscularly, and you have to do what's called aspirating with the syringe once its in your arm or leg, to make sure you aren't injecting into a vein. I wouldn't recommend you attempting that, even if they'd let you try. But I would see why you can't be taking B12 orally, rather than IM. Good Luck

by Anonymousreply 14September 7, 2021 8:47 PM

R13, be polite but do not grovel. Groveling encourages people to treat you poorly.

by Anonymousreply 15September 7, 2021 9:23 PM

[quote][R8] as far as my research indicates, oral/sublingual is fine as a maintenance for those with adequate levels; however, in people with serious deficiencies, injections are needed over a period of many weeks or months in order to regain equilibrium.

Some people lack intrinsic factor, which makes it impossible to process b12 orally. Lack of B12 can and will kill you.

[quote]OP, its really unlikely that Boots [sic] would give you injectable B12 without an Rx and instructions from your doctor. Its injected intramuscularly, and you have to do what's called aspirating with the syringe once its in your arm or leg, to make sure you aren't injecting into a vein. I wouldn't recommend you attempting that, even if they'd let you try. But I would see why you can't be taking B12 orally, rather than IM. Good Luck

See above. Oral b12 isn't an option for some. B12 can be injected subcutaneously as well, and there is no need to aspirate with IM or SC.  Self injection for b12 deficiency is no more dangerous than insulin for diabetics.

Diagnosis is tricky, and doctors tend to disbelieve sufferers.  Injectable b12 can be bought from Canada and Germany. More information can be found here.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 16September 8, 2021 4:06 AM

You make up a lot of stupid threads. OP. Give it a rest.

by Anonymousreply 17September 8, 2021 4:12 AM

" I’m really gonna have to grovel in the morning"

Just when I thought this moronic story couldn't get any lamer. No one "grovels" at a doctor's office.

Creative writing isn't your thing, dear.

by Anonymousreply 18September 8, 2021 4:17 AM

Put it under your tounge.

by Anonymousreply 19September 8, 2021 4:32 AM

OP, there are B12 nasal sprays for those who lack intrinsic factor. Could you request that from your GP?

by Anonymousreply 20September 8, 2021 4:42 AM

R20 coincidentally, after a bit of wider reading I asked about IF in supplements today, when I went for the last injection on my course. The nurse & the doctor both seemed puzzled, said they hadn’t heard of a pill or spray that does that. My doctor added sheepishly that she hadn’t actually looked at my IF either😔typical eh?) And now they’ve said that they refuse to give me any more doses or look further into my condition until six months down the line. Given how poorly I felt after missing one injection, I dread to think how rough I’ll feel in six months time.

R16 thanks so much for that, really good info. As I mentioned before, despite my request for information I still haven’t been told and haven’t the first idea what has caused my apparent deficiency/malabsorption (beyond “yeah....at least we know it’s not anaemia”, thanks Doc🙄), but having read all the common causes I’ve narrowed it down through guesswork and think it’s probably MTHFR or some sort of autoimmune disorder—something that won’t go away with time or lifestyle change. It just makes sense from looking at my life’s medical history. Annoyingly, the Society (at the link you provided) say that they don’t advise or signpost people who aren’t paying members of their group, and that to join you have to have been diagnosed with PA (which I don’t have), so no joy for me there I’m afraid!

You’re right that high street pharmacists won’t administer jabs without a legit GP’s prescription—today I called around Superdrug, Boots etc. and they said that if I didn’t have a shiny new scrip then there’s nothing they can do to help me. It’s a real pain, because their counters are really close to my house and their injections only cost £30 a pop—would have been so handy, well within my budget, and a huge load of stress off my mind (elevated cortisol has a devastating effect on MTHFR, js.....) G00gle suggested a derm clinic, beauty salon and a naturopath in the next county that give expensive (one was £85 a time) B12 injections, but I worry about their medical hygiene and acumen, wonder if it might be safer to inject myself...

[quote] there is no need to aspirate with IM or SC. Self injection for b12 deficiency is no more dangerous than insulin for diabetics.

Could you please elaborate on this? (and please explain what ‘IM’ & ‘SC’ are?) I’ve never self-injected before, and so don’t know the first thing about the right process or safety protocols, dosing (would I need it every month? Every three? Or just whenever I feel bad?), or what to expect. As much as I’d rather not self-administer (I’m a bit squeamish, and do trust nurses), it seems like my healthcare providers have left me high and dry, at least for the time being. R7 makes it sound easy, but is it really?

Sadly, I’m also hearing that Brexit has hiked up VAT & customs duties in Europe so much that most of the online pharmacies who formerly supplied and shipped injectables to the U.K. now no longer do, or if they still do they’re charging hundreds of quid in customs at a time. So if I can’t find a reputable company who sell and deliver for an affordable price, I’m totally fucked. Thanks, BoJo!

As for what I can do to get by in the meantime...transdermal patches? Topical B12? Eating liver 3x a week? There’s no long-term care in place for these conditions, it’s absolutely shocking.

by Anonymousreply 21October 4, 2021 11:52 AM

R21 Do you wear a diaper? Are you able to wipe your own ass? Do you have a spine?

Your extended use of this made-up story makes you reek of (among other things) a desperate need for attention. Get a hobby.

by Anonymousreply 22October 4, 2021 11:56 AM

OP sounds like a really horrible cunt. The worst.

by Anonymousreply 23October 4, 2021 11:58 AM

This thread is so horrible and brain dead, I bet the Dominique Dunne troll wrote it.

by Anonymousreply 24October 4, 2021 12:00 PM

I can make you a batch of B-11 and send it over.

by Anonymousreply 25October 4, 2021 12:02 PM

IM = intramuscular, SC = subcutaneous. It’s fairly shocking that any educated adult who relies on injections wouldn’t know this. Also, who cares if a receptionist or GP admonishes you? Are you always this afraid of authority figures or owning up to your mistakes?

by Anonymousreply 26October 4, 2021 12:18 PM

My doctor gave me B12 injections for about 4 months, but then I thought, there is no way in hell I can keep this up for the rest of my life. I changed over to oral B12 (1000 micrograms) daily and my numbers are doing just fine.

by Anonymousreply 27October 4, 2021 1:48 PM

And then she died...

by Anonymousreply 28October 4, 2021 1:51 PM

[quote]Annoyingly, the Society (at the link you provided) say that they don’t advise or signpost people who aren’t paying members of their group, and that to join you have to have been diagnosed with PA (which I don’t have), so no joy for me there I’m afraid!

I'm r16. I've been using Pernicious Anemia Society for years, and never been asked for a dime or a diagnosis. You log in, you ask questions, and others answer you. I guess I have never been a "member" with "full access", but I've gotten plenty of vital information from it

[quote][R20] coincidentally, after a bit of wider reading I asked about IF in supplements today, when I went for the last injection on my course. The nurse & the doctor both seemed puzzled, said they hadn’t heard of a pill or spray that does that. My doctor added sheepishly that she hadn’t actually looked at my IF either😔typical eh?)

You really need to take this into your own hands and do some research. The doctors you have are clearly of no assistance. Intrinsic Factor is created in the body, and it isn't something you can get in supplements. I have PA, and my body has IF antibodies that kill off IF. If I don't take injections, I will die.

[quote]My doctor gave me B12 injections for about 4 months, but then I thought, there is no way in hell I can keep this up for the rest of my life. I changed over to oral B12 (1000 micrograms) daily and my numbers are doing just fine.

That's great, but not everyone can do that. I can't. Topical patches, nose sprays, and sublingual tablets/liquids will work for some, but not all. I require injections to survive. I was diagnosed with PA years ago, when it landed me in the hospital with severe nerve damage and brain fog.

I currently get my injectable single use b12 ampoules from a pharmacy in Germany. With shipping, it is little more that $1 US per ampoule. Syringes/needles can be bought in many places online.

This is a rare but real disease. It mostly affects those of Scandinavian or Northern European descent. In my case, it is hereditary, though vegans can acquire it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 29October 4, 2021 3:02 PM

R27 in the case of absorption issues, chronic inflammation, lack of intrinsic factor, methylation problems and the like, merely taking a vitamin isn’t going to cut it (or really do anything). The gut of such a patient can’t absorb properly, so the supplement will just pass unused through the body.

Btw sufficient B12/folate levels are but one small part of the full methylation cycle—just because your B12 levels are considered medically high enough (according to the national standard, which varies country to country..) and you seem to be absorbing some, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all your enzymes are working optimally to release energy from cells/synthesis DNA.

Not to mention that blindly overdosing on B vitamins that aren’t actually enabling methylation can actually backfire healthwise, causing cell metastisation instead, I.e. cancers.

by Anonymousreply 30October 4, 2021 3:08 PM

But shots are useless according to my doc who I pretty much trust. Even my elderly friend who has been getting them for years was finally told no more by a new doc. It's a placebo.

by Anonymousreply 31October 4, 2021 3:12 PM

B12, no "but".

by Anonymousreply 32October 4, 2021 3:13 PM

[quote][B12] shots are useless according to my doc who I pretty much trust. Even my elderly friend who has been getting them for years was finally told no more by a new doc. It's a placebo.

Your doctor is ignorant. I would not be alive without B12 injections.

by Anonymousreply 33October 4, 2021 3:18 PM

Sorry, no R33. Just a way for them and big pharma to make money. Tried them a few times and zilch, nada effects.

by Anonymousreply 34October 4, 2021 3:23 PM

R33 is r16 and r29

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 35October 4, 2021 3:23 PM

[quote]Sorry, no [R33]. Just a way for them and big pharma to make money. Tried them a few times and zilch, nada effects.

You tried them for what, r34? You don't take b12 injections to get high, or for an energy boost. You take them when your body is unable to process b12 from food. It is an uncommon condition but it definitely exists, and if you have Pernicious anemia, you will most definitely die without the injections.

If you don't have it, there is little to no reason to take injections, though.

by Anonymousreply 36October 4, 2021 3:50 PM

OP types helpless.

by Anonymousreply 37October 4, 2021 4:03 PM

[quote] It’s fairly shocking that any educated adult who relies on injections wouldn’t know this.

R26 a careful reading of my OP and subsequent replies would tell you that this medication vehicle is new to me, and I’ve not been reliant on injections before. Vaccines are the only jabs I’ve had, up to now. I’m young and healthy and slim, a non recreational drug-user and non-diabetic, and I don’t work in health, so why exactly should I be expected to know? We don’t all shoot up in alleyways in our spare time, love.

[quote] Who cares if a receptionist or GP admonishes you? Are you always this afraid of authority figures or owning up to your mistakes?

For the lateness to my appointment (which happened weeks ago...), my GP didn’t admonish me, and I apologised anyway. It’s possible that one can be a forgetful person who also has respect for others enough to realise when that is a problem. I try hard to be organised, but it doesn’t come naturally to me. I’m conscious of the fact that lateness is considered rude and antisocial, and I do my best. Everyone’s different.

As for today’s appointment, the clinic just didn’t have any answers for me and didn’t seem to care to find them out, even though technically it’s their job. If anything, *I* ought to have been getting fucked off with *them* for their apparent apathy in treating my case, but being a polite person with consideration for the difficulties the health service have been through lately, I refrained—perhaps if the kind advice of other posters does not bear fruit then I’ll live to regret that, but that’s not for you to worry about, eh?

And thanks for pointing it out, I’m already aware that assertiveness is something I need to work on. fyi (though not germane to this thread, so not sure why you asked) I do have an emotionally-abusive parental figure and have a history of exploitation, so that probably figures into my default reactions. Once again, and for the benefit of the people in the back and in the cheap seats—I’m working on it, in therapy.

Thanks for your attention to this topic, it needed the bump.

by Anonymousreply 38October 4, 2021 4:05 PM

FFS R36, let it go.

by Anonymousreply 39October 4, 2021 4:35 PM

There is obviously a huge range of people who takes B12 shot--some need it to survive; others need it just to stop certain symptoms.

I have some weird B12 issue that doctors can't get a handle on. Since my early 20's my arms and legs would fall asleep very easily. I once mentioned it to my dad, and he said he has the same issue. He just pops a B-vitamin every now and then and it goes away. So I started, and indeed, those symptoms went away. Two decades later, I finally decide to tell a new doctor, and he runs tests. Apparently I have some anti-bodies to Intrinsic Factor, but not enough to actually cause pernicious anemia. Because the B12 levels were low, he prescribed B12 shots.

The shots, however, would cause the limbs-falling-asleep symptoms to come back faster (3 days after the shot, instead of 7-10 days after a pill), so the doctor thought I was maybe deficient in another B vitamin. He ran a load of tests, but they all came back normal. He ultimately gave up and told me to go back to my B-vitamin pill, which was much less than the B12 injection dosage.

Weirdly after all these years of taking the pill, I've worked out what makes it function the best. The GMC version (gel cap with tons of little beads) works best. If i take it before I go to bed, rather than in the morning, it also works best to stop my symptoms.

by Anonymousreply 40October 4, 2021 4:36 PM

OP is writes overly long and earnest screeds. Sounds like you know who.

by Anonymousreply 41October 4, 2021 4:52 PM

[quote]The shots, however, would cause the limbs-falling-asleep symptoms to come back faster (3 days after the shot, instead of 7-10 days after a pill), so the doctor thought I was maybe deficient in another B vitamin.

I hear that often, r40. I'm told one of the reasons that that can happen is because the injections jump start nerve regeneration, resulting in the tingling (which is actually nerve damage). I'm glad you found a pill that works for you. Every case is different, as you say.

Since your Dad has it, I wonder if you might have a congenital version. I had a great grandfather die of it.

by Anonymousreply 42October 4, 2021 5:05 PM

[quote]Sadly, I’m also hearing that Brexit has hiked up VAT & customs duties in Europe so much that most of the online pharmacies who formerly supplied and shipped injectables to the U.K. now no longer do, or if they still do they’re charging hundreds of quid in customs at a time. So if I can’t find a reputable company who sell and deliver for an affordable price, I’m totally fucked.

If this is truly an issue for you, r21, stop with what you are "hearing".

Here's a source of injectable b12 from Germany. There was a problem with shipping to the UK in Feb, but as of July/Aug, no issue. The price is fairly low. Yes, you'll need to find syringes/needles, and learn to self-inject. I can help with sourcing the syringes/needles, and youtube is full of "how-tos". It doesn't take any special dexterity.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 43October 6, 2021 6:14 PM

Thanks for the hookup R43. I’m in the process of scraping up spare money not for bills/food/rent to order ampoules (my budget is shoestring Rn and I’m not lucky enough to be a sugar baby). It will be more convenient and safe for me in the long-term to do this at home, as transport is an issue in my life (I don’t/can’t legally drive and don’t live in walking distance of anywhere that administers) and atm I can’t often be far away from where I live (caring responsibilities).

What I’m more concerned by now is *why* I had a deficiency so bad happen in the first place, and how to treat this issue holistically from now on so it doesn’t happen again. As my problem is apparently/ostensibly (I say this as my Doc is hit or miss) not anaemia and not a dietary issue/Crohn’s and not drug-induced or addiction-related, then according to my research that only leaves as a likely cause either a major gastric malfunction (ie diverticulosis, Coeliac, IBD, SIBO, irradiation), pancreatitis, or MTHFR/MTR/MMAB/MUT/TCN2/some other genetic problem. I have read that DNA testing is necessary to figure out whether one has gene mutations related to deficiency/absorption problems—but isn’t that 23&Me stuff kind of sketchy? Not sure I’m comfortable handing over info like that. But do GPS/Doctors even do similar tests? How do I demand a comprehensive one?

Then there’s the matter of lifestyle. So many sources online say that to cope with B12 absorption problems may call for strict diets, frequent lympatic drainage and infra-red saunas, liver/kidney cleanses, and taking supplements. It’s making my head spin with stress thinking of how I’m potentially gonna have to put so much time and money into handling this (which ofc I will if I need to, health comes first)...

And definitive answers need to come my way soon. I’m 8 days out from my last and final B12 on the NHS, and my limbs and muscles and skin are all aching and prickling like they did before I started taking them, plus my vision is wobbly and my mood & focus is tanking :( what the fuck is wrong with my body?

by Anonymousreply 44October 12, 2021 11:14 PM

Bump

by Anonymousreply 45October 13, 2021 10:04 AM

In all the trillions of years humans have been around, there has never been a need for "B12 injections". FAIL.

by Anonymousreply 46October 13, 2021 11:13 AM

B12 is for pernicious anemia only. Other kinds of anemia need different solutions.

That is what Sybil (AKA Shirley Ann Mason) was finally diagnosed with, not multiple personalities.

by Anonymousreply 47October 13, 2021 11:51 AM

R47 ok good to know😕except I don’t hve anaemia of any kind (or so I’m told). So how come I can’t retain or use B12 from food?

by Anonymousreply 48October 13, 2021 11:55 AM

R48, I also have that same issue. I do have intrinsic factor antibodies in my stomach preventing B12 absorption but do not have pernicious anemia.

I assume that means alot of B12 is actually getting into my system.

by Anonymousreply 49October 13, 2021 1:22 PM

[quote]That is what Sybil (AKA Shirley Ann Mason) was finally diagnosed with, not multiple personalities.

OMG!

by Anonymousreply 50October 13, 2021 1:24 PM

So I have an appointment with my doctor in two weeks to discuss further testing (soonest I could get, fucking nightmare), and I’ve started keeping a symptom diary.

Meantime though, I’ve got palpitations, GERD, muscle aches, painful tingling and cold feet, as well as slight breathlessness and blurred vision—a return of all the horrible symptoms I had before my short course of injections. And it’s only been less than two weeks since last dose. So obviously it’s looking like I definitely need more intensive long-term treatment.

Waiting on injectables to arrive (could be a while) and for initial instruction/supervision from someone who knows what they’re doing, I don’t really want to sit with this pain and discomfort for weeks doing nothing about it, so is there anything I can do for symptom relief? Basic B- complex oral tablets aren’t doing anything, and my legs hurt so much I can’t stand or walk more than an hour at a time (I’m young, so that’s not normal)...

by Anonymousreply 51October 15, 2021 11:36 PM

R51, I think you have something more than B12 deficiency

by Anonymousreply 52October 16, 2021 12:13 AM

R43 here. I'm also several others in this thread. Don't focus on trying to figure out what is causing this, because that really doesn't matter. Testing is a waste of your time. You know that injections help. You probably have no intrinsec factor, so all the oral B vitamins in the world will probably not help. Eat as good and as a balanced diet as you can, heavy on vitamin b. That probably won't help much either, but it can't hurt.

Walk as much as you can. Swim if you have access. Doctors have very little understanding of this and you cannot rely upon them. I direct you again to PAS. They can help.

Watch some youtube videos on self injection. Next time you get an injection, maybe ask the nurse if you can do it with them watching you (that's what I did). From what I'm hearing, you'll be doing this the rest of your life...and that's no big deal.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 53October 16, 2021 12:21 AM

Forget the B12 and go to see a shrink.

by Anonymousreply 54October 16, 2021 12:54 AM

R53 tysm for the encouragement. It means a lot to get to this point and find someone who gets it.

So far I have made a PAS account and started posting—already I’ve been given so much reading to do! What other posters are telling me so far is quite alarming and eye-opening: that the current test for PA is highly-flawed and gives false negatives (and that PA itself is a misnomer); that B12 deficiencies can pass from mother to child; that my Doctor is likely working from incorrect and outdated guidelines some 14-20 years old, and; that my particular symptoms could also point to CFS or ME (I had no idea there was a B12 connection there) but that conversely B12 deficiency is also often misdiagnosed as the former.

It’s such a relief to have insight from knowledgeable people, but also a bit of a stress overload. Tomorrow I’m going to sit down with all the reading I need to do, curl up in the least Frauey way possible with a barley coffee (can’t drink the real stuff when I’m in this condition 😞), and take copious notes with which to grill my GP (though I don’t expect much, and anticipate having to move clinic and possibly track down a private Doc and/or a biochemical psychiatrist or a nutritionist).

In terms of diet and fitness, I’m just trying to eat eggs & milk or meat everyday while also avoiding histamine-heavy or GERD-aggravating foods, plus walk my dog a short distance twice a day. Sadly, the pain in my muscles (esp my legs and glutes) and the difficulty of breathing evenly is too much to work out intensely.

You’re right too about getting a trained medic to help with self-administering shots to begin with. If you have links to safe self-injection tutorial videos or wikis, please do link and share here🙏

This guidance is really so helpful and comforting to me, with what is a new slightly overwhelming challenge in my already bizarre life, so cheers again🐣

by Anonymousreply 55October 16, 2021 11:12 PM

Can I have your stuff?

by Anonymousreply 56October 17, 2021 12:48 PM

R56 babes I’m a broke 20-sth lez who lives in a literal basement out of boxes u would not want my stuff trust😂

by Anonymousreply 57October 17, 2021 2:35 PM

What about your huge collection of butt plugs and anal beads? Lezzie's gotta have those to stay alive.

by Anonymousreply 58October 17, 2021 2:39 PM

OT: r57, I was a broke lez in my 20s living out of boxes too. Good times for sure, seriously. I fell in love when I was 30 and we are happily retired together. I hope you get well and can enjoy your youth!

by Anonymousreply 59October 17, 2021 4:07 PM

OP is exhausting. Like an energy vampire.

by Anonymousreply 60October 17, 2021 5:14 PM
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