American Men Are Giving Up On College

We’re empowering women and throwing men to the wayside, then we can’t figure why they’re shooting up grocery stores and becoming Qanon Incels.

Men don’t have a purpose anymore.

Good, men have smartened up to the total financial racket that is a "college education". The job market will eventually bend to the fact that not every excellent employee is a college graduate, desperately poor from paying student loans, and just hire competent skilled people!

Great news for young lesbians.

Bingo, R3.

[QUOTE] The gender enrollment disparity among nonprofit colleges is widest at private four-year schools, where the proportion of women during the 2020-21 school year grew to an average of 61%, a record high, Clearinghouse data show. Some of the schools extend offers to a higher percentage of male applicants, trying to get a closer balance of men and women.

[QUOTE]“Is there a thumb on the scale for boys? Absolutely,” said Jennifer Delahunty, a college enrollment consultant who previously led the admissions offices at Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio, and Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. “The question is, is that right or wrong?”

[QUOTE]Ms. Delahunty said this kind of tacit affirmative action for boys has become “higher education’s dirty little secret,” practiced but not publicly acknowledged by many private universities where the gender balance has gone off-kilter.

[QUOTE]“It’s unfortunate that we’re not giving this issue air and sun so that we can start to address it,” she said.

I kind of agree with R3, even though I’m a huge proponent of education. But R3 is correct.

All they're ever told at University is how "toxic" they are. Of course they're beginning to avoid it.

You can make a good living as a plumber, welder, truck driver, and HVAC installer. Certainly cheaper than majoring in English literature.

Aren't we being told that the future is female?

'College' education isn't all its cracked up to be folks. All those cheap so called 'Degrees' on line...what a load of rubbish. Get out into the world if you're not academic and learn a trade, start your own business. It's not hard, you just need motivation.

[QUOTE] The college gender gap cuts across race, geography and economic background. For the most part, white men—once the predominant group on American campuses—no longer hold a statistical edge in enrollment rates, said Mr. Mortenson, of the Pell Institute. Enrollment rates for poor and working-class white men are lower than those of young Black, Latino and Asian men from the same economic backgrounds, according to an analysis of census data by the Pell Institute for the Journal.

The disparity is greatest at elite schools. That's why we're hearing about this. It's a trend at elite schools, not so much elsewhere. All this braying about incels, empowerment, blah, blah, blah is just the usual bullshot by uninformed people.

Since DLer are oblivious to all this:

These are men whose parents in not in the top 15% - 20% of income (e.g., the upper middle class) and who will need to take out massive loans, even to go to a state college in their home state.

Competition for slots in the top 50 or so colleges is as fierce as ever with the 20% (Felicity Huffman et al being a good example)

Many of them are thinking they do not want that kind of debt. What's unclear is what they see their Plan B as-- learn a trade and start their own business? Become an Uber driver and live at home?

[QUOTE] Social science researchers cite distractions and obstacles to education that weigh more on boys and young men, including videogames, pornography, increased fatherlessness and cases of overdiagnosis of boyhood restlessness and related medications.

Good job, parents.

R12 well of course the rates are worse . They don't have affirmative action to fall back on and have to fight for their spot with white middle to upper class kids

As others have pointed out, they’re not going to spend money to be told they’re the cause of all the problems in the world.

The problem is for as much as these universities despise them, they need the money from white men. It’s still a dominant demographic and one that has greater access to money. And if there are significantly less men in play at boarding colleges, there’s going to be less women. Many young women want to meet a partner and date and socialize with men while pursuing their degree.

They have to decide whether the validation they feel from telling men they are shit is worth the long term downside.

I can’t wait to hear colleges referred to as “Dyke Factories”

College is bogus. You’re better off taking that money and starting a business or going into a trade. All a college degree gets most people is a paper pushing job and then fear of aging out and being fired.

r15 It is clear video games and pornography, always guilty for everything bad.

If this were happening to women we’d be required to be outraged but because it’s men no one gives a shit.

He's hated around here, but JBP was right about this.

[quote] Many young women want to meet a partner and date and socialize with men while pursuing their degree.

Generally DLers post from the year 1987 but good old R18 is posting from the year 1957!!!

Such misogyny in some of these responses. "Men have smartened up to the total financial racket that is a college education"? "Good job parents"? Those would be acceptable responses if the article were about a general decline in college attendance, but it's not -- it's about women outnumbering men in college pursuits. If the article had been about how men were far outpacing women in college attendance, I doubt there would be responses like "Women are wising up to the scam of a college education" or "Great job parents, you failed your daughters".

Personally I think this is a good thing. Hopefully it means that within a generation corporate America will be taken over by women. Maybe that will spill over into politics as well. More women need to be in charge. Men, in particular straight white men, have run things for centuries and have fucked everything up. Time to step down, lads. You've been voted off the island.

Who needs college - they can just go whore themselves on OnlyFans.

I would love to see how it breaks down along the lines of sexual orientation. Are straight men the ones failing to matriculate? How is enrollment among gay men?

R25, how many of these highly successful CEOs/tech people dropped out of college? Completing a college degree(s) doesn’t guarantee women anything.

Are they going to trade schools instead? Going directly into tech? Where are they gking?

It;s also the WSJ, so there's an agenda (read the Comments section) that left-wing professors are driving males out.

To give some more proof to R14, there's this quote

[quote] Ms. Gereghty said she found that girls more closely attended to their college applications than boys, for instance making sure transcripts are delivered. Baylor created a “males and moms communication campaign” a few years ago to keep high-school boys on track, she said.

I will guarantee you that over 90% of the kids at any upper middle class high school, public or private, have a paid college advisor whose job is to make sure that Zach and Zoe's transcripts arrive on time, that recommendations and essays are delivered well before the deadline and all that. This is on top of the private SAT tutor.

And then we wonder why the working class is rebelling.

But please think about all these poor young women seeking an MRS degree only to end up as another blue-haired lesbian because there are no men around!

[quote] He's hated around here, but JBP was right about this.

Who, r23? Jordan Peterson?

[quote]R25, how many of these highly successful CEOs/tech people dropped out of college? Completing a college degree(s) doesn’t guarantee women anything.

Irrelevant to the point I was making. I was addressing the obvious misogyny on this thread with the tone of these responses.

College is an overestimated shit. Many try but few real are going to get good jobs and make money. Better to learn a real practice profession.

I had no idea either R32, but Google says his middle initial is B, so probably

Don’t kid yourself, R28. How many people are will become tech CEOs? You really think the average kid has a great chance of being the next Steve Jobs or Elon Musk?

College is still the way to go if you want to be successful in America. Not only for the degree but the relationships you build with other students venturing into career paths. Like anything else, it’s what you make of it.

[QUOTE] Over the course of their working lives, American college graduates earn more than a million dollars beyond those with only a high-school diploma, and a university diploma is required for many jobs as well as most professions, technical work and positions of influence.

r1, men have always been more violent than women. There has never a point in history where the bulk of crime was committed by women

And it's not that men are less likely to go to school, it's that women are more likely

[QUOTE] How many people will* become tech CEOs?

What r18 said.

"Of course they're beginning to avoid it."

They're not avoiding it. It's just that the number of women going to school is increasing fast

Only Fans (or whatever the new one will be) is the new college.

Correct, R32. He talked about this years ago, in particular about the social science departments losing male students.

"If this were happening to women we’d be required to be outraged but because it’s men no one gives a shit."

The "men are victims" MRA brigade is so hilarious. 80% of congress is male, every president we've had has been male, the vast majority of CEOs are male

Btw, middle class white guys a just as likely to go to college as middle class white women. The gap only exists among minorities and working class whites

"As others have pointed out, they’re not going to spend money to be told they’re the cause of all the problems in the world."

Nobody is telling them that, except in your imagination

And you think he's well known enough to just use his initials, r42?

""As others have pointed out, they’re not going to spend money to be told they’re the cause of all the problems in the world."

There's a college for whatever you want to hear. Maybe that will keep them from going to Oberlin, but they don't need to go to Oberlin.

For those like R29 asking what these young men are doing instead, the article provides some examples, and it’s an incredibly sad outlook:

[QUOTE]Men in interviews around the U.S. said they quit school or didn’t enroll because they didn’t see enough value in a college degree for all the effort and expense required to earn one. Many said they wanted to make money after high school.

[QUOTE]Daniel Briles, 18 years old, graduated in June from Hastings High School in Hastings, Minn. He decided against college during his senior year, despite earning a 3.5 grade-point average and winning a $2,500 college scholarship from a local veterans organization.

[QUOTE] He took a landscaping job and takes home about $500 a week. Mr. Briles, a musician, also earns some income from creating and selling music through streaming services, he said, and invests in cryptocurrencies. His parents both attended college, and they hope he, too, will eventually apply. So far, they haven’t pressured him, he said.

[QUOTE]“If I was going to be a doctor or a lawyer, then obviously those people need a formal education. But there are definitely ways to get around it now,” Mr. Briles said. “There are opportunities that weren’t taught in school that could be a lot more promising than getting a degree.”

[QUOTE]Many young men who dropped out of college said they worried about their future but nonetheless quit school with no plan in mind. “I would say I feel hazy,” said 23-year-old Jay Wells, who quit Defiance College in Ohio after a semester. He lives with his mother and delivers pallets of soda for Coca-Cola Co. in Toledo for $20 an hour.

[QUOTE]“I’m sort of waiting for a light to come on so I figure out what to do next,” he said.

[QUOTE]Jack Bartholomew, 19, started his freshman year at Bowling Green State University during the pandemic, taking his classes online. During the first weeks, he said, he was confused by the course material and grew frustrated. Finally, he quit. “I don’t know what I’m going to do,” he said. “I just feel lost.”

[QUOTE]Mr. Bartholomew’s parents and one older sister have college degrees. He was a solid student in high school and was interested in studying graphic design. Yet while working online from his second-floor bedroom, his introductory courses seemed pointless for how much he was paying, he said.

[QUOTE]He works 40 hours a week, at $15.50 an hour, packing boxes at an Amazon warehouse not far from his house in Perrysburg, Ohio. It isn’t a long-term job, Mr. Bartholomew said, and he doesn’t know what to do next.

R41, in all seriousness, those YouTube/Instagram/tiktok people make bank. Even some of the modestly successful ones live pretty well. Plus, everything is comped and I’m talking food and products, not just trips and cars.

You guessed correctly though, R45.

R25 is exactly why men don’t want to go to college. Trashy hypocrisy where you need to shit on men to empower women. You say you’re pointing out misogyny while reveling in your own misandry.

Anyone with common sense can see through this polluted logic and glaring double standards. No one wants to spend money to be “educated” by imbeciles.

You think it’s good men are being voted off the island? Alright. Good luck keeping the fire going and foraging for food on your own.

You can't even get an admin job these days without a college degree. It's a requirement for any kind of professional work.

I'm not a leftist but I say college must be affordable or free and available to any who want it. The experience is about more than an education. It is meeting new people, being exposed to new ideas, feeling a few years of independence without worry, exploring your wants and desires...that is college, not the classes you pay through the nose to take.

[quote] Btw, middle class white guys a just as likely to go to college as middle class white women. The gap only exists among minorities and working class whites

That is part of the problem. It seems it has been deemed proper that poor white males should be the ones to pay for the sins of the upper classes, even though they too are victims of oppression.

It's funny. All you people yapping about how boys are avoiding college because higher ed is anti-male, yet when the kids actually tell you why they won't go it is nothing like that.

Maybe your bias is showing? Naw, couldn't be.

[quote] despite earning a 3.5 grade-point average and [bold] winning a $2,500 college scholarship [/bold]

This shows how clueless the elderly WSJ audience is.

A private college is $80K/year. State schools are about half that, somewhat less if you are in state.

But still-- $2500 is a spit in the bucket. It's not going to significantly reduce the amount of debt he will be in.

And even upper middle class parents feel the sting. The $300K - $500K per kid they need to sock away over 18 years take a huge bite out of their retirement funds and seems to be increasing much faster than inflation.

These clamfests can't be too popular with straight girls, i.e the majority.

Then why are they attending at record numbers, R55?

R53 what's even more funny is the idea that some people believe that all men would tell any journalist their innermost thoughts and desires.

Young girls today are so smart and focused, they’re probably grateful that not as many boys are around to distract them. They’re there to get an education, not land a husband. Guys are the ones who would be upset if they went to college and didn’t see females around cause they’ve got one giant wad of cum between their ears and college is a wonderland of partying and rape.

[quote]You say you’re pointing out misogyny while reveling in your own misandry.

The proof is in the pudding. And the pudding is this fucked up world that's now literally burning up, as if it weren't already screwed up. Good job, men.

Women in positions of power can be just as bad as any man. We've all known professional women who are absolute CUNTS.

American Men Are Giving Up on Pussy

In favor of ALL ANAL

Who needs college when OnlyFans and GoFundMe are out there to generate income.

People who can't make money off of OnlyFans and GoFundMe (which is a much higher percentage than people seem to believe).

"You think it’s good men are being voted off the island?"

They're not, dumb fuck. That's why 80% of congress is male

"is exactly why men don’t want to go to college. Trashy hypocrisy where you need to shit on men to empower women. You say you’re pointing out misogyny while reveling in your own misandry."

The imbeciles are the ones like you who whine about "misandry" when it's really about money. You're just spewing right-wing talking points that are unconnected to reality

“American men”

The pathetic “man” in OPs pic is wearing stupid jewelry and painted fingernails. This generation is so embarrassing.

[QUOTE] Who needs college when OnlyFans and GoFundMe are out there to generate income.

How much you think this guy’s making on Onlyfans?

Call just stupid. The idea that you need 120 credits from some dip shits school to prove that you know a subject is ridiculous. It is a fossil. It is sustained by the wealthy forcing their succubus offspring to be nurtured by greater society. Fuck them all and reimagine the whole stupid thing

Does less men attending college really mean a generation has given up on college? Hyperbole.

A woman needs more education than a man to get the same job.

Eboni K. Williams has more education than LuMan. She told me so.

I get annoyed with all the advanced and pricey degrees people have who apply for $13 an hour jobs at my office. Mommy and Daddy pay the bills, but that doesn’t matter when your resume has grammar errors and every other word out of your mouth is “like”.

Nearly everyone I know, including myself, has said they learned on the job. You get the college experience, but the education itself usually doesn’t prepare one for the workforce. Maybe business school is a different story, but I digress. Now on top of everything else you get the snowflakes who think the real world is going to be like their college campuses and they’ll be pandered too. Those are the ones who become full time activists because they can’t handle real life.

They'll be "pandered too"?

And which illustrious school of higher education had the pleasure of your attendance, R72?

What's the number for gay men? That's the only thing I could care about this whinefest.

Linky stinky r66

I think many young men should eschew college for other endeavors but what are they? How does a young man realistically support himself in a way in which he can live well and independently w/o a degree? I don't see many choosing the trades. Manufacturing jobs are few and far between. What are the realistic options?

Whatever. I work at a small private college and the male students with few exceptions are my worst students. It's not just white boys either, it cuts across all races. They're entitled, bratty and don't think they should have to work hard.

Datalounge's stock answer to your question, R76:

Again, Onlyfans is a great option if you’re one of the fortunate few young men who look like this:

But your ass better have a degree if you’re one of the unfortunate masses who look like this:

The decline of trade schools along with unions screwed it for the average American male. The repugs let for profit diploma mills pillage the guaranteed student loan funds. These guys wound up with worthless degrees no marketable skills and 60K in non dischargeable debt. It's obvious that not everyone should go to or needs to go to college. I would say most should not. Bring back trade schools. Hell a plumber males 100K easy.

There is nothing aspirational about being a college student like in the past. Not nearly the same freedom and respect. Campuses put so much control on student activity because they want to avoid bad press or lawsuits. The feminization of colleges has turned it into Highschool 2.0 in some respects. Instead of treating them like adults and evaluating wits, it's become more of a points game and the best work horse wins. I wouldn't want college to be like a boys club in the past, but ideally back to 2010 or so.

More opportunities for me then!

The trade jobs are really where the money is at. I was recently talking to a landscaper, 3 neighbors asked if he did cement work. Those people are in demand. I literally called this contractor 10x, my friend’s uncle called them on my behalf because he recommended them, but they had so much work they never called me back. My neighbor is a landscaper and makes big money. He retired years ago, his sons work day to day and they hire cheap labor. He’s been retired for decades. He owns multiple homes in NY, a place in Italy, and drives a Jaguar.

They aren’t glamorous jobs and are physically taxing, but they are lucrative and always in demand. If you build a good enough reputation, you can eventually hire people to do the actual work.

It wouldn't matter if all these women in colleges were becoming doctors or engineers, but they're not.

It's broadcast journalism and woman's studies.

People bitching about MRA and who want to act like EVERY man is a rapist, are exactly the types driving forward the agenda that is pushing these men to the edges of society and into the arms of these looney movements. Men are losing purpose. We came up with a plan to “empower” women but never how to change men for the better without just shaming them because they like to fuck & cum. We are failing boys & men as a society. The uptick in hyper/toxic masculinity is directly a result of men losing their security in our world, being “de-powered”. Empowerment comes from a place of “lack” and is not actually about equality but rather another demographic taking power, which will absolutely be abused. Look at history and everyone abuses power, regardless of gender, race or sexuality, just because we’re standing at moment where we blame all the ills of the world, past & present, on men (white in particular) doesn’t mean it’s completely true. We “tsk, tsk” the stereotyping of every group but men, where we take the examples of the few and paint nearly the entire gender as evil. Just look at the responses here on Datalounge to any thread criticizing a woman which is shouted down, yet we shred men daily and it’s ignored. We’re performing a deification of women and creating a false narrative that they can do no wrong. The idea that a society run by women will be a utopia is laughable, just ask anyone who’s worked for a female-run company. Pick your poison: quick aggression done quickly or slow killing passive aggressive abuse. Judge each person, not groups. Women love the idea of a Nanny State, an Orwellian nightmare. The future is… well, bleak.

R86 well DL needs to make up its fucking mind. When younger generations explain the unique struggles they're facing, they're told to stfu because every generation has faced struggles. When they bring up the crippling student debt, they're told they shouldn't have been stupid enough to take the loans, and oh yeah, why not just go into the trades!

So what's the story, huh? Is it that young men are being neglected, or are they following similar advice? Funny half the comments are full of pity about how no one gives a shit about men, but in the article, there's multiple examples of colleges immediately giving them a form of affirmative action. Why is it only an emergency crisis when it's regarding males? It's a 10% difference, with uniquely new social factors that weren't present before; not exactly time to sound the alarm though.

And before this is denied, just tonight in a thread about millennials, I brought up issues my peers are facing. Recieved the typical response about all young people being narcissistic whiners, because we aren't the first generation to ever struggle. This isn't a male vs female thing like sexists want it to be; it's a problem resulting from younger generations being told to figure it out. Well that's what these guys seem to be trying but it still isn't looking so hot for them. Are our elders ready to listen for once?

R87 oh, woe is me. We’ve been ringing every alarm about the plight of girls since the late 60s and 70s, and the screeches get louder no matter how much progress is made. Women won’t be satisfied no matter how much power they have and the Power of the Puss is a strong one. Gay men are the only who really see the abuses women do by abusing their sexuality, because we don’t want it, have the same ability, or benefit from it. We use to serve a purpose for women throughout their lives and now we’re just used as accessories when they “Slut Slum it” from 18-26 and they toss aside like a dishrag. Most women are becoming insularly cliquey and no longer want a token gay around. Sorry. Not too much sympathy here, honey.

I know I shouldn't be laughing at the photos of the "average" men, but I am. Fortunately for them fat fraus and alcohol exist.

Percentage-wise gay men are still on the receiving end of the most hate crimes. Can we talk about us? Is that allowed anymore?

Don't forget this is DL where the opinion of the majority is if you're not hot enough to make money off OnlyFans and similar sites, then you really don't deserve to live anyway, let alone have an education.

Straight males are the most entitled and lazy group of people on the planet. Now that everything isn't being handed to them, they have just decided to pout and quit. No surprise to anyone who knows any straight males at all, except their mommies and the gay men who still want to fuck them.

R64 "80% of Congress is male!!" is NOT the "comeback" that you seem to think it is. For one, it obviously makes no sense that an answer to a problem with a group of young men is to point to an irrelevant (made up) figure about older men. "oh. You're feeling lost and dejected with your station in life at nineteen? Well don't YOU know that a lot of old white men are in CONGRESS?!! You're so stupid for not knowing that!!" r64 remove your unthinking ass from this discussion thanks in advance.

R93 sounds like a non-binary femnazi. Just because your Daddy was on food stamps and fingerbanged you doesn’t mean it’s true for the rest.

[quote]The job market will eventually bend to the fact that not every excellent employee is a college graduate, desperately poor from paying student loans, and just hire competent skilled people!

Yeah right, people so “competent” they can’t even do four years at a lower tier college. I’m involved in hiring at my firm (very indirectly) and if you don’t have a college degree, your resume goes straight into the trash. That’s becoming more and more the case, not less and less.

Boys in the digital age are fucked, basically. They spend way too much time inside being fed by various forms of instant gratification like video games, YouTube/Reddit, and porn. Then they’re expected to get disciplined and focus on actual learning? Please, do me a favor.

On top of that, in our slave culture, more and more of the jobs are unskilled and require good physical/upper body strength so you can get a job without a college degree, or even a high school degree probably.

So they just do that, scrape by, and play video games and watch porn all night and on weekends.

You can't even get an admin job without a college degree. If you want to work professionally, you have to have one.

Exactly r97. We aren’t in the 18th century anymore, when 100 people went to Oxford and everyone else has their hand chopped off for stealing bread or were transported to Australia for life. It’s now the expectation that you have higher education unless you’re a migrant fruit picker or Amazon zombie.

r80 That sexy hairy Joe Shmo would also make a killing on Only Fans.

The ruling class, with Robert Kiyosaki and his sort as persuasive mouthpieces, have convinced two generations of certain Americans that their mind's value is limited to how much money they can earn with it. Meanwhile, lots of second generation feminists watched their mothers get screwed over by their fathers. Consequently, they highly prize acquiring an education and self-sufficiency, and continue to hand down those values.

“”Straight males are the most entitled and lazy group of people on the planet. Now that everything isn't being handed to them, they have just decided to pout and quit. No surprise to anyone who knows any straight males at all, except their mommies and the gay men who still want to fuck them.”

That is correct. Straight men are “victims” alright. Victims of their own stupidity, arrogance and laziness.

A new crop of OnlyFans whores enter that job market every year, though. That can't be seen as a long-term career. Then what?

Oh well.

I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of yuppie couples and the men always seem to work more and/or have more prestigious jobs and degrees. For women having a degree (especially a Liberal Arts degree) is more to prove they’re not dumb.

While individuals make stupid decisions when a large chunk of the population make the same "stupid" decision, there's often a sensible reason behind it.

My best guess is college just doesn't pay off for a very average male student, while it does for the females. For young males there are well paid jobs in the trades. Better to be a top notch plumber than a struggling office worker. On the whole young women don't have that alternative, so they need the college degree to get any foothold in the middle class.

R86 says to judge each individual but then proceeds to negatively stereotype women as a monolithic group who all behave the same way. Got it.

[quote] I know I shouldn't be laughing at the photos of the "average" men,

Why not? They're laughing at you. And not feeling bad about it.

[quote] I live in a neighbourhood with a lot of yuppie couples and the men always seem to work more and/or have more prestigious jobs and degrees.

More dispatches from The Year 1987!!!

[Note usage of the word "yuppie"]

Hehe so many here just refused to live in today

R108 Eldergay Alert! Get the meds!!!

What a non-article. College has never worked out for everyone - due to how they learn, due to cost, due to whatever personal characteristic or situation. There's always been people who didn't go - some for whom that was the right decision, others for whom it may have been a mistake. There's always been dropouts, and "lost" men, and people who didn't know what they wanted to do. That there's a few more during a time when people generally seem stressed, confused, and lost - shocker. It's a completely BS article -- the broader conclusion that "American Men are Giving Up on College."

Who cares if straight, white men are self-selecting out of the workforce? More room for women and gay men. And given the higher mortality rates for those without college degrees, this will pay off down the road. Opioids and COVID are doing this nation a favor.

Young middle class white males, the most oppressed class in America.

R106 I’m just doing what you all do to men constantly. Screaming “equality” and “respect” then negatively stereotype men as a monolithic group who all behave the same way. Got it?

They are NOT middle class R113

It's 2021, there is no middle class

There's the top 15% - 20%

And then there's the bottom 80%-85%

The rise of the vast middle class seems to have been a mid-20th century phenomenon

"The job market will eventually bend to the fact that not every excellent employee is a college graduate, desperately poor from paying student loans, and just hire competent skilled people!"

You're seeing this in tech (my world). Many of the software developers I work with are college drop outs. It was superfluous for them. Salesforce is training and hiring program managers - no college degree needed and these are 6 figure jobs. Apple and Google are looking for creatives - art directors and copywriters - and are just looking at portfolios--they dont care where you went or if you finished.

Granted, these are just drops in the bucket of change. But I do believe they will drag other sectors along with them eventually. They will have to.

Gee, I can't imagine anything less appealing than being surrounded by an overabundance of Gen Z females. No wonder they're straying off

College is a scam regarding financials. In terms of socially, women and #metoo are causing many to pull back on that as well.

The 5 Colleges have become all colleges

R114, you seem to have a hard time seeing people as individuals. I would work on that if I were you.

Colleges and universities must be in a panic. I think, like everything, it will end up with extremes -- the elite comprehensive universities and super select liberal arts colleges will thrive - there will always be people who want to attend and have the experience. And on the other end, community colleges, tech schools, locally strong colleges universities with "practical" degree programs. It's the mid-tier universities that I wonder about.

No shit they’re avoiding the sophomore year gender studies class.

The country will become more Republican without all the liberal indoctrination.

Exactly R121

It's all those small private, often religious colleges you've never heard of that pretty much admit anyone.

Many do a fine job educating students and provide a great environment but they're struggling because they need to charge high tuition and there just aren't that many takers for those sorts of schools anymore.

Yes straight white males hate that they now have to compete with women and minorities for things. It makes sense that they’re avoiding the woke this critical race theory that of college life.

R125 Yes, that's the problem, not the fact that the most privileged among us are the most woke, while those willing to work hard can't afford it.

Colleges are a place where wealthy people can exercise their white guilt. They are not better than those who figure college is a scam where they'll have to endure lectures about white privilege without any hint of irony.

Is DL uniformly the graduates of super liberal, elite colleges?

Yes, the wokeness thing, the sensitivity, etc. exists at some colleges, but there's still a lot of colleges that exist in a workaday manner. Kids go to class and get degrees without much drama over "woke" issues -- and they don't have to take a women's studies class.

That’s so true. Many campuses are conservative

Or they're just "meh" - not really politically charged spaces outside of a small subset of the school. No nonsense - people just want to take their classes, party and socialize how they see fit, get their degree and hopefully find a job.

Seeing how my BA from 20 years ago has amounted to very little value for getting a likeable job in the workforce (chooseforce), I can understand why college is being shunned.

This is just another example of how corporations have extended their power over all of American society. They require degrees for the most menial of jobs without providing a reason for this requirement. A degree-holder is not necessarily the most competent person for the position.

I work for a large company and with all sorts of individuals from all generations. Many are quite competent at their job and seemingly above average in intelligence, in general. Almost all of them have at least a bachelor's degree and many have advanced degrees. There is a sizeable portion of them who, while not functionally illiterate, barely operate at a high school level. This includes people who have obtained advanced degrees.

How on Earth do these schools churn out people who cannot write a coherent one-page memo? Or, demonstrate the ability to analyze or synthesize information? That's a rhetorical question. I know the answer is $$$. The whole system is now a scam perpetrated by corporations to squeeze money out of the populace so that they can meet qualifications set with no basis.

R115 if your somewhere in between shitting in a bucket and driving a Tesla? You’re probably middle class in America.

Am I supposed to shed a tear for the guy who would rather make beats in the comfort of his mother's home than have to try hard at anything? I'm sure a lot of these easy riders will find a way to benefit off of the labor of others just fine. Corporate America loves pimps.

What aren't straight men giving up on, aside from random gun violence, obesity,video games and porn? Most of them are losers.

they are jackasses for doing so and the dongos in the article sound like lazy flunkies

"Yes straight white males hate that they now have to compete with women and minorities for things. It makes sense that they’re avoiding the woke this critical race theory that of college life."

LOL, poor little white boys having to face an equal playing field instead of one stacked in their favor.

I've worked with many women who are worse than any man I've ever worked with.

[quote] LOL, poor little white boys having to face an equal playing field instead of one stacked in their favor.

Tell me how the current situation is stacked in anyone's favor. It's all performative diversity and no one but the very rich are benefitting from it.

R139 - What does “performative diversity” mean.

R140 I don't know if it's a woke term, but if it is, this is one area where woke people actually have a point.

[quote] The country will become more Republican without all the liberal indoctrination.

Yeah, I can't get my students to read the syllabus, but I have great success making them into "libruls."

R86 Literally no one is saying "every man is a rapist" and women are "deities" who "can do no wrong."

Men who choose to embrace anti-social movements seem to do so because they expect more from society than they are willing to work for and achieve. They look for others to blame instead of looking for the f.cking bootstraps they're always harping on everyone else to use.

Reminds me of an in-law who didn't bother finishing high school, and wants to be a cop though he can't pass the written exam. He blames "affirmative action" instead of cracking a book and studying at least enough to squeak by. Suffice it to say, people like him who are too stupid to pass a cop test are not likely to be too self-aware about the reasons they are taking the L at life.

[quote] Men who choose to embrace anti-social movements seem to do so because they expect more from society than they are willing to work for and achieve

That's a pretty unfair generalization. Decades ago, these anti social movements revolved around hippie culture. Now, it's anyone who doesn't suck up to an elite that rules by force. You can't deny that there are fewer opportunities today. Not everyone can afford to go to college these days and a lot of entry-level positions are being automated or outsourced. Those jobs "that no one wants to do" (as liberals arrogantly proclaim time and time again) is what instilled in previous generations discipline and a hard work ethic. The evidence of barely concealed contempt for the working class can be seen everywhere, including on this site.

My experience is just the opposite of yours. I've seen many people fail upwards or else do nothing to deserve their station in life. Those people certainly did nothing to earn their position, yet those are the ones who are leading and making public policy.

I graduated in 2009. Tuition at my alma mater has nearly doubled since then.

Yeah, I wonder why anyone would skip college...

R59 Are you talking about just the US?

Wasn’t it Isabella I that set African slavery into motion? I mean you want to talk about fucking up the world, go read about Isabella I.

Didn’t Queen Victoria colonize countries? I know there are articles that showed more queens waged war than kings in Europe throughout history.

I could go on but some of this patriarchal society began with women in power. We rewrite history to remove women from the mess but they were certainly there.

I think the issue is simply the new shiny image of entrepreneurship. When you look at YouTube and social media and things young male teens are watching, it revolves around “hustling”. Investments, stocks, BitCoins, opening a niche business or online business, etc. You know, they learn about college dropout millionaires who took a business route instead of finishing school. People want to be like Dan Bilzerian and Elon Musk (who did finish college but dropped out going forward).

That type of stuff is being sold to boys today.

[quote] The pathetic “man” in OPs pic is wearing stupid jewelry and painted fingernails. This generation is so embarrassing.

But he's so butch !

good, I hope lots and lots of universities close, they are a rip off and overpriced.

R148 Well do you also think people are less hard on boys today that they’re maturing less? I mean a lot of fathers have great relationships with their sons today. I feel like the generations before millennials, men were ambitious to meet their fathers standards whereas today there are more fathers out there who will say do what makes you happy.

I dunno, it’s just a theory. Fathers have softened up and so have their boys.

some guys are better off in trades schools than universities.

R148

A trillion times better than the stupid ass Trump generation.

A few thoughts on this -

1) We don't need so many people going to college - particularly the shittier ones. In the past 40 years, we're sending far too many people to college - and for many, it's just an extension of high school for those who never studied or were academically inclined to begin with. We need technical schools for specific jobs.

2) The price of college is a fucking scam and many are priced out of even state schools, so they don't even try.

But I also think that video games and getting lost in the internet has made these kids lose any perspective. Many of them want to develop video games and have no idea how grueling and uncreative some of those jobs are - they don't get to just come up with ideas and people listen to them.

We need a complete overhaul of education for those aged 16-24. The old model was based on a small percentage in the early 20th century who would go on to college - not for 50-60% of the population to attend.

We need to implement a system that is something like a lot of the European systems where you have to test into universities and different tracks. You have to earn your way into universities, not pay your way into them.

Someone on twitter noted this trend has been building for a long time.

Anyways, agree that not everyone needs college. I think trade schools could be reprioritized.

Did it ever occur to the brainiacs at the [italic]Wall Street Journal[/italic] that the reason higher education has gotten more expensive — largely artificially — is because the market has said we have too many college graduates and the only way to correct it is to make it so expensive that fewer can afford it? Because if we did it the direct way and made it harder to get in, white men would scream bloody murder. If we just said we don't need as many college graduates so we're only letting a smaller number in (whether by lottery, a competition, or however, it doesn't matter) white men would claim discrimination and scream bloody murder. And what we see here in these comments is largely white men screaming bloody murder because it no longer makes financial sense for them to go to college.

We've tried the educate everyone approach. which resulted in the lamented hiring practice of requiring a four-year degree. I'll admit when I did a ton of hiring in the 90s, I rarely looked at anyone without a degree for even entry level positions. I felt that it wasn't so much the degree as evidence the applicant could dedicate themself to a long-term goal (and at that age, 4 years is the longest commitment they've made), show up and do the work. The interesting trend I've seen was that those who realized this and accepted it as a fact of life did really well; I'm still in contact with people I hired 20+ years ago and this group has done exceedingly well. Those that griped about requiring a degree to get an entry level job and didn't understand the rationale and have, to a person, not done as well. Maybe there is some other larger element that those who've done well have that I'm not seeing (and I fully admit I'm being reductive to single out this one differentiating trait), but the most accurate predictor of success that I've been able to identify was this factor; more accurate than any other trait, from gender to race and everything in between.

[quote]I know there are articles that showed more queens waged war than kings in Europe throughout history.

Yes, of course. Women are largely responsible for global colonization and the general shitty state of the world today. SMH. And behind all those queens, who "earned" their positions by birthright only, were councils of men who steered all the decisions.

R157 - Or, other nations/enemies started shit because they thought a country ruled by a woman was weaker.

This story is DL catnip. The rancid old cunts on this site can bitch about:

1. Women

2. College students

3. The WOKE!!!

And can be sad for:

1. Poor misunderstood boys

2. white people

3. poor misunderstood white boys

Now that they are forced to compete with women on a more equitable playing field, many of these "men" would rather not go to school than be shown up by a "girl". I know 2 guys who refuse to go to college because "there's too much competition". The American male ego is so fucking fragile.

R146, since you’ve asked, Spain began importing African slaves to their colonies after a decree issued by Isabella . . . and her husband, the co-ruler of Spain, Ferdinand. And by the time Victoria became Queen, Britain was ruled by its prime minister, not by the monarch.

[quote]the reason higher education has gotten more expensive — largely artificially — is because the market has said we have too many college graduates and the only way to correct it is to make it so expensive that fewer can afford it? Because if we did it the direct way and made it harder to get in, white men would scream bloody murder. If we just said we don't need as many college graduates so we're only letting a smaller number in (whether by lottery, a competition, or however, it doesn't matter) white men would claim discrimination and scream bloody murder.

R156 is probably the most callous, classist, and elitist post in the thread, and for Datalounge, that's really saying something. You're damn right that people would scream bloody murder when an $18/hour entry level job in every field requires you to have a four year degree, which a decent life with living wage and healthcare is predicated on. But who cares, right? You must be in your 50s or 60s, collecting a very comfortable retirement, upper class or more. You got yours. Who gives a shit about the working class? Not you. I wonder how you would feel if someone told you at 18 years old that there are too many college graduates, and that you're now fated to work at an unlivable wage. Time to pull the ladder of success behind you! This is why a working class evolution is imminent, and you'll be the first to face the wall.

[quote]We've tried the educate everyone approach. which resulted in the lamented hiring practice of requiring a four-year degree. I'll admit when I did a ton of hiring in the 90s, I rarely looked at anyone without a degree for even entry level positions. I felt that it wasn't so much the degree as evidence the applicant could dedicate themself to a long-term goal (and at that age, 4 years is the longest commitment they've made), show up and do the work.

How virtuous of you to admit that you were part of the elitist culture that measures a human being's worth on what college they went to. Considering that your grammar and spelling is atrocious in this quote, you must be the type to fail upward. And screaming bloody murder? Who's doing that? I'm only seeing people congratulate white men for going their own way. You're the one who's writing screeds dehumanizing "white men" as a faceless monolith with no thoughts or feelings, and no plans or goals that don't involve college. Somehow that triggers you. Why write paragraph after paragraph screaming bloody murder about whether or not they go to college? Why do you care? Oh, right. You don't. This is just another outlet for you to spew your hateful bigotry of white people, and white men in particular, in a socially acceptable way, safely and anonymously. Aren't you happy that white men will be broke, poor, and pathetic? Isn't that the way you like them? According to you, they aren't going to "do well". I wish you could see the look on your face when you're forced to cross paths with a successful, strong, and happy white man. It must be hell for you.

There is this talking point that tradesmen earn a lot of money, but this is only true for some and this involves working a ton of hours and at the cost of a lot of ailments. A lot of folks who work in trades aren’t that well off and are overdosing.

But many active tradesmen are hot af. At least in bigger cities, no idea about rural tradesmen. Desk jockeys are soft and squishy like ladies or tiny like 12 year old boys. If you're into more masc men, superficially, tradesmen are more likely to be your physical "type".

God I couldnt find one single decent post here. Usually you always find some but its all shit.

Sometimes I forget you're all old and quite out of touch with reality. My bad.

R165 - Fuck you asshole. There’s some wonderful contributions on this thread. You’re a fuckwit.

College is a grift. Everyone knows it. And minorities and the working class will be the last to know, because they’re still buying into the propaganda that it matters. So the college industrial complex will grift more and more working class and minorities into stunning levels of debt while young men get the memo, go into entrepreneurship and the trades, while women and minorities continue to get useless degrees in social justice crap then whine that taxpayers aren’t paying off their student loans.

^Agreed. It is outrageous how deeply in debt young people are going just to get a college degree. I can't believe there isn't a huge political movement to investigate this and put an end to it. University education IS a racket, just as plain as day.

Contractors are rich as fuck! I know a contractor in a big city and has lots of jobs lined up, he doesn't even do big jobs. yet he sends money back home to his family somewhere in south america and he made so much money that he can open a hotel in his home country.

Electricians, welders and contactors all make serious money!

Also, it's a good gig if you can get to be a super of a building. I met an illegal while I was waiting tables in college, he was a barback or something, he saved up and took some college courses to be a super and now is an American citizen (he married an american) and is a super of a building right on central park. He lives there with his family rent free of course and he owns a house with a pool in CT where his kids can relax and enjoy. no student loan debt.

The issue is, if you were born in the 80s and 90s, from kindergarten through high school, you were told COLLEGE IS THE GOAL. GO TO COLLEGE. GO TO COLLEGE. It's only in the last 10 years or so that "college isn't for everybody" became mainstream and not a whispered dirty secret. And as I mentioned at R145 tuition is getting MUCH worse. It was already bad, but now...FUCK.

Why mention what people born in the 80s and 90s were told? Isn't this about young college aged men now? What they were telling people back then isn't relevant to young people now. If young guys want to avoid tons of student loan debt, then becoming a tradesman is the way to go! Get trained, get paid, retire early with your company and employees to do the heavy lifting.

I think car mechanics also get paid a lot. Or go to flight schools, be a commercial pilot

[quote] Why mention what people born in the 80s and 90s were told? Isn't this about young college aged men now? What they were telling people back then isn't relevant to young people now.

It is important because that is what their parents were told. This is the 20th anniversary of my senior year of high school, and what were my classmates doing on facebook? Showing pictures of themselves dropping off their children at college. And, most of those parents haven't finished paying for their own college education.

It is a cycle of debt that will continue.

What I would prefer is some sort of system of free residential two year colleges for those aren't sure which route they want to go down. They can use those two years to learn a trade or prepare themselves for college. Technical colleges can be used because they are already half way between high school and college.

^All true. The momentum for everyone to get a college education (at least white males back when this started) began after WWII - colleges were being set up all over the country. That continued through the 1960's and on up until today, opening up to young (white) women, and to blacks as the US moved into the Civil Rights movement and beyond. The idea was that a college education would make you qualified to earn a better living, and for a while it was likely true. But "higher education" became some kind of a racket - all these schools have been built and become enormous. A college degree in many subjects, especially the humanities, does not qualify you for any kind of a career except as a teacher in a college (if you go on and get a masters and a PhD). The debt inculcated now for these degrees DID NOT EXIST until about a generation ago, these schools did not cost as much as they do now (even adjusting for inflation). A college degree is just a kind of totem, a pass to get you through someone's door for a job and it could well be a job as a waiter or waitress, if you're not very careful. The system is CROOKED.

R176 - fun fact - University of California was free tuition for California residents from 1868 until the mid-1970's. There were some registration fees ($300/year) started in the late 60's, but still tuition was free.

Then in the mid 70's, tuition for in-state was around $3200/year in 2021 dollars for in-state. That same pricing remained in the 80's. Then it went up in the early 90's to around $7500/year in 2021 dollars. Now, it's $13,400 per year (in-state).

I'd like to know what the fuck is different in the last 50 years to go from free, to $3200/year to 4x that price?

R177 The universities claim it is because we expanded to include more minorities so they had to build and grow. And they had to have all the latest things or students won't come.

R178 - latest things? Many U of C schools are relatively new campuses. They're all fully equipped. That's BS.

[quote] I'd like to know what the fuck is different in the last 50 years to go from free, to $3200/year to 4x that price?

Thank the Great Society. Federally guaranteed student loans meant almost zero risk high profit for the lending institutions who approved every loan they could. Naturally the colleges adjusted their fees as the money supply ballooned so the banks get to loan more. It's an impressive circular racket.

R180 - and everyone knows it and nothing changes.

I expected to trigger someone, R162, but wow, have you read a lot into my comment that isn't there. I get the impression you're harboring a lot of resentment about going to school, it's festering inside you and I'd suggest therapy, but I'm confident you'd write a diatribe on that elitist prompt.

I did appreciate "This is why a working class evolution is imminent, and you'll be the first to face the wall." I get it. You saw yourself in my comment and it hit you, hard. You're so rattled that you couldn't even use the right word, made more ironic when you go on to rant "Considering that your grammar and spelling is atrocious...".

Perhaps you could find some comfort in reciting, as a mantra, "My college degree was not a waste of time, effort and money."

[quote]My best guess is college just doesn't pay off for a very average male student, while it does for the females. For young males there are well paid jobs in the trades. Better to be a top notch plumber than a struggling office worker.

Then why aren't they pursuing those kinds of jobs? Okay, you don't want to go to college. But pursuing a trade still takes study, drive and initiative, and most of them don't seem to have any. All the young straight guys I know have three interests: video games, porn and pot. They're not interested in anything, they don't want to pursue anything outside of their immediate gratification. They don't want to make an effort, period. They live with their families or leech off a gf and when they get called on being useless lumps, do things like claim college is a grift so why bother.

What we're seeing with these guys isn't women's or schools' fault. It's the end result of 20+ years of porn on demand, overcoddling by parents and the social acceptability of pursuing childish hobbies as lifestyles. It's literally fucked with these guys' brains.

More from the NYT article; AKA, this is not as simple as it seems on the surface.

In many ways, the college gender imbalance is not new. Women have outnumbered men on campus since the late 1970s. The ratio of female to male undergraduates increased much more from 1970 to 1980 than from 1980 to the present. And the numbers haven’t changed much in recent decades. In 1992, 55 percent of college students were women. By 2019, the number had nudged up to 57.4 percent.

While the shift in the college gender ratio is often characterized as men “falling behind,” men are actually more likely to go to college today than they were when they were the majority, many decades ago.

The raw numbers don’t take into account the varying value of college degrees. Men still dominate in fields like technology and engineering, which offer some of the highest salaries for recent graduates. Perhaps not coincidentally, the professors in those fields remain overwhelmingly male.

Women surged into college because they were able to, but also because many had to. There are still some good-paying jobs available to men without college credentials. There are relatively few for women. And despite the considerable cost in time and money of earning a degree, many female-dominated jobs don’t pay well.

[quote] I'd like to know what the fuck is different in the last 50 years to go from free, to $3200/year to 4x that price?

The actual answer to the question is an enormous decline in federal funding of higher education.

[quote] All the young straight guys I know have three interests: video games, porn and pot. They're not interested in anything, they don't want to pursue anything outside of their immediate gratification.

Clearly these four young men in the darkest reaches of Flyoverstan are representative of an entire generation.

SMH

[quote]American Men Are Giving Up On College

pussies

R183, lol, that's how my nephew is actually! lazy as fuck and no drive, parents give him everything etc

And the elephant in the room continues to stand there, alone and unnoticed.

My people (the upper middle class, the top 15% of wage earners, largely concentrated in blue coastal states) are trained from birth to get into the right colleges.

* We go to the right preschools

* We go to the right private schools or our parents move to suburbs with high performing public schools whose student bodies are indistinguishable from private schools. They may pay $40K/year in property taxes or more for this privilege

* We have private batting/throwing/kicking/etc coaches to make sure that we play a sport in high school because that looks good on the college application.

* We spend high school summers (pre-Covid) working at some do-good project, "interning" at a well known company our parents have connections to or taking summer courses at one of the colleges we want to go to

* We have private SAT tutors, private college counselors to help us with applications and essays and high school guidance counselors who are on a first name basis with all of the admissions directors at top colleges

* Our parents have saved enough money to pay full tuition and as much as colleges claim that does not matter, it does.

* It also means we come out of school with zero debt.

* We go to colleges with strong alumni networks that can help us get hired right out of school

With the deck so stacked against them, it's no wonder so many in the bottom 85% don't try.

One outlier: Asian immigrant families, much like Jewish immigrants one hundred years ago, have figured out that education, or a certain type of education, to be specific, is the key to success in America and will throw all their resources into making sure their kids have a shot at getting into schools like Stuyvesant and Bronx Science and then top colleges too. They'll live in a one bedroom apartment in Scarsdale so their kids can go to Scarsdale High School. And they very quickly ascend the ranks to the upper middle class as a result.

You know, the one thing I like about YourMillennialFriend is that he can admit to his layers of privilege.

Re: R189: sounds like more parents of straight white boys need to suck it up and be like the families of current Asian immigrant families.

Those kids' parents actually give a shit, sounds like.

^I once used to go pretty regularly to one of the public libraries in the fairly affluent NE suburbs of Atlanta, near Alpharetta, Johns Creek, and Ocee. I would sometimes run by there in the afternoons, after the schools had let out, to pick up or return things. The library was always PACKED to the gills with students, sitting in groups at tables, along with an older person with them, who was obviously a tutor. The kids were ALL Asian, Chinese, Korean, or Indian. Little Johnny and Susie Whitebread were off someplace else, having footbaw practice or "cheer squad", while their conniving, interloping "furrin" neighbors were working their way towards medical school, basically. It was very obvious, the discrepancy in the attitudes towards the value of education.

None of my brothers went to college or trade school. They all make very good livings as independent contractors in trade-ish professions. One of them only works nine months a year because he can't do what he does in the snow -- but he still makes six figures.

The upside is that they can repair and install anything I need. (One bought a new water heater for me a few months ago -- with his trade discount – and installed it in an hour) The downside? They're all Trumpers and anti-vaxxers.

The article uses boys who dropped out of *Defiance College* and *Bowling Green State University* as examples. Does anyone honestly think a degree from either of those places is worth the paper it's printed on?? Clearly those boys shouldn't have been going to college in the first place, but felt they had to since we've been told for decades that getting a college degree is the only way to succeed in life. Except it's not—particularly when you're not actually college material and the college you attend is a low ranked no name institution. I think these boys dropped out because, as men, they still have some sense that they can find blue collar work—which is what they're probably most suited for anyway. Women aren't as suited for many blue collar jobs, though, which is why they feel more obligated to go for these worthless degrees. I *guarantee* you, though, that in 10 years most of the women currently attending Defiance College will be stay at home moms who never used their degrees and are still saddled with enormous debt.

R192 - that's true. I feel like American K-12 education has become this balance of education with 'activities' and social life, the latter of which is given sometimes MORE importance than educational achievement.

Many American kids place little value on the education they're receiving. And putting everyone altogether serves no great purpose - for those not educationally-inclined, they're disruptive in class and focus on sports or social aspects. This can leave those who ARE serious about studying feeling like they are on the outside and nerdy.

We now have two to three generations where high school was a requirement. The 'serve all' in one place philosophy now needs to be changed. If kids haven't shown academic interest or ability by the age of 13 or 14, they most likely never will.

[quote] If kids haven't shown academic interest or ability by the age of 13 or 14, they most likely never will.

But we'll still insist they go to college anyway.

R189 Don’t forget about nepotism. Let’s be honest, many PhDs and those from prestigious institutes got there out of having the right relatives/connections and I haven’t seen one who wasn’t privileged.

The danger of pushing privileged kids of average intelligence through Ivy League, is that you end up with a worrying amount of incompetent people in relatively high-status and responsible jobs. Because they can’t perform on that level, they are likely to become office-bullies and white-collar criminals out of frustration. Often the bullying behaviour already starts on campus.

R198 - there aren't a ton of average intelligence privileged kids getting into Ivy League. They're usually in the top 10% academically, but just not in the top 1 or 2% that Ivies usually attract.

There are plenty of privileged kids who get rejected by Ivies all the time. It's really not much of a thing. Legacy kids are generally still pretty smart and academically motivated, but are slightly down the ladder than the average student. They still do well at school and are capable.

You're not seeing B or C students from privileged backgrounds getting into Ivies - that just doesn't happen. They may enroll in their open studies / General Studies programs, but no - Ivies don't do that shit.

What R199 said

The Conventional Wisdom among My People these days is that the list of acceptable colleges has gotten much larger, or to quote a colleague "The kids who used to go to Harvard and Yale are now going to Columbia and Dartmouth, those kids are now going to Cornell and Duke, and the kids who used to go to Penn, Cornell and Duke are now going to Vanderbilt, WashU and Northwestern" [NB: That was not meant to be a comprehensive list of top colleges]

[quote]You're seeing this in tech (my world). Many of the software developers I work with are college drop outs. It was superfluous for them. Salesforce is training and hiring program managers - no college degree needed and these are 6 figure jobs.

I've got three cousins in their 40s who all dropped out of college (montessori school ruined them my grandma used to say). They've all got jobs like you describe (one even works for Salesforce in SF). Of course you have to have the aptitude for tech to accomplish this, and I'd say they're all above average in intelligence.

The planet is burning up, so not sure any of this is going to matter much longer. I genuinely pity the younger generations for the new life situations they will have to deal with while the planet can still sustain human life.

Don't pity millennials - they need a culling

R202 - Never give up on your dream of bumming everyone out in every conversation you're a part of!

[quote] The article uses boys who dropped out of *Defiance College* and *Bowling Green State University* as examples. Does anyone honestly think a degree from either of those places is worth the paper it's printed on??

That is part of the problem, a diploma from even a no name college in the middle of nowhere was still an automatic ticket to the middle class until recently.

This should not be surprising.

Read up on countries like Egypt that have a surplus of college graduates and no jobs for them. Common enough in the developing world.

R205 - very true. But now that jobs have become more tech, we're now outsourcing many of the good paying jobs to applicants from India and China with dubious tech degrees who will also work for slightly less.

There's no reason we can't have very specialized, technical trade schools. It doesn't have to be HVAC, electricians, etc. - although there is nothing wrong with that.

We need a third path of reasonably priced schools that teach practical technical skills. That's what trade schools and some high schools used to do.

The US college system has been taken over by grifters the past 30 years and it needs to change quickly.

Sheesh. They are hardly men. They’re late teens! I mean, give them a break if they’re a little unsure of what they want to do. At least they’re working.

Don't forget, robots and machines are taking over, less jobs for humans!

When I first saw the photo on OP’s post I thought this was going to be a “Rocco Ritchie is Down-and-Out” thread.

[quote] The raw numbers don’t take into account the varying value of college degrees. Men still dominate in fields like technology and engineering, which offer some of the highest salaries for recent graduates..... And despite the considerable cost in time and money of earning a degree, many female-dominated jobs don’t pay well

See R85.

It’s who you are born and who you know, for the most part. College is a good base, though, no guarantee!

College used to be a failsafe ticket to a nice office job and a middle class life, but there were far fewer people back then, far less competition, far fewer immigrants, and no outsourcing.

[quote] a diploma from even a no name college in the middle of nowhere was still an automatic ticket to the middle class until recently.

And the reason it's not anymore is because we insisted for so long that everyone should go to college. Now that everyone has, we haven' t ended up with a smarter population, we've ended up with a population with degrees that have no value because they're so ubiquitous. Which is why now people are being told they need a Masters to succeed—except even those are now oversaturated and becoming worthless. That's why I don't believe we need to make college free—we need to go back to making college no longer a minimum requirement.

[quote]And despite the considerable cost in time and money of earning a degree, many female-dominated jobs don’t pay well.

Well, I'm glad we are too busy worrying about the poor little white boys to be bothered by the presistence of this over the last, oh, million years.

One of the things that is interesting and might explain some of the issues is that the spectrum of IQs in men is one of a split concentration on either end. There are more male geniuses but they are balanced out by way more men on the idiot end. (Helps explain Trumpers.) The IQ spectrum of women is concentrated in the middle. While there aren't as many of the Big Bang Theory level geniuses, there also aren't as many fucking morons.

So, while women can be trained to do a lot of different jobs, the men who are smart and can do things like programming and other tech heavy jobs are balanced at the other end by morons who can't do anything beyond the most simplistic jobs. The fact that a lot of them have also had everything handed to them in life or just pouted without taking any actions to better themselves means that they'll just live in mommy's basement until they find some desperate woman to work two lower-paying "female" jobs to keep their fat asses fed.

Plenty of women are dumb cunts r215

[quote] The fact that a lot of them have also had everything handed to them in life or just pouted without taking any actions to better themselves

This is such a lazy cliche. Plenty of white men have had no breaks in life and had hideous upbringings, they had terrible parents and nothing was even handed to them.

It doesn't change the fact that men with low IQs, "working class" men are being outperformed by automation. In a modern society that relies on intelligence and not strength, these men are falling by the wayside. Women generally fall in the middle, they aren't at the top nor at the bottom. I'm afraid there are no solutions unless we become a less technologically advanced society.

R216, you didn't understand what I wrote. Might say something in and of itself.

R217, and there are an equal number of people who are not white men who have had those exact same circumstances without the added benefit of getting to be white men in a society ruled by white men where everything is set up to favor white men. If you are a white man in America and can't figure it out, you're one of the morons on the far lower end of the spectrum I mentioned above.

R216 you're definitely one of the male morons referenced above. Jesus.

r219 being white hasn't benefited them at all. They're still on the bottom rung.

Along that same line of thought, R218, men lack a lot of the skills required by a service based economy versus a manufacturing based economy and they refuse to work on that. "Soft" skills like communication, empathy, general people skills, adaptability, multitasking, etc. are where the future is. Until now, the world has run on brute strength and routine, like factory work. That has changed and men seem unable to evolve. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of gay men may have an advantage here. They have more soft skills because along with a higher percentage of them already working in "female" jobs, they don't get to just "let the wife take care of that social bullshit" while they sit in the basement playing video games.

r220 go back to telling us how black people have horrible BO like you did on the other thread.

r222 men run the service economy.

Lol R220 struck a nerve did I?

R221, they are on the bottom rung by choice. Like I said, the entirety of American society is set up for them to succeed with the most minimum of effort. They won't even do that.

r215 - recent Gender Studies graduate from Oberlin

[quote] they are on the bottom rung by choice. Like I said, the entirety of American society is set up for them to succeed with the most minimum of effort. They won't even do that.

Your ignorance and complete lack of understanding of American society and the world in general is appalling.

R228, you just keep proving me right because you don't bother to actually say anything in your posts. You literally are doing the equivalent of saying "nu uh" while every study in the world refutes you.

Just because someone is white and male doesn't automatically give them a ticket to the good life, as you are suggesting. That is a ridiculous assumption.

[quote]men lack a lot of the skills required by a service based economy versus a manufacturing based economy and they refuse to work on that.

This is a class issue, not a gender or race issue. God, you're ignorant.

It's an intelligence issue, which is related to class and sometimes gender

I just want to see Blondie’s (in Op’s post) pink hole and dick, where is his onlyfans?

Tbh If I were an American guy I would run away from college too. Your society is far too decadent. The Wokes infiltrating in all the universities makes you want to even flee your country.

Male attendance is down in other countries as well

[bold] When A Thread Devolves Into Two Posters Repeating The Same Points Over And Over At Each Other As If They Might Convince The Other That He Is Wrong

^^When A Grossly Overprivileged Upper West Side Twat Who's Never Had A Hard Day In His Useless Life Can Fuck Right Off

[quote] And if there are significantly less men in play at boarding colleges, there’s going to be less women.

Oh, dear! And from where did you get your degree?

You should ask for your money back.

"One of the things that is interesting and might explain some of the issues is that the spectrum of IQs in men is one of a split concentration on either end. There are more male geniuses but they are balanced out by way more men on the idiot end. (Helps explain Trumpers.) The IQ spectrum of women is concentrated in the middle. While there aren't as many of the Big Bang Theory level geniuses, there also aren't as many fucking morons."

R215, link, please? I would like to see the data that proves this statement.

Thank you.

r239 is talking out of his ass

R240

Block R220 & r225 you'll see it's the same user talking tom themselves. The trolls on this board are pushing an agenda.

Actually R242 I accidentally responded to the my own post. But I'm glad to have a fan. Pity you can't use the block function properly to realize I'm only responsible for about four posts in here.

R239, he's a representative graph. All you have to do is google 'male female IQ distribution' and read up all you want on it.

[QUOTE] One of the things that is interesting and might explain some of the issues is that the spectrum of IQs in men is one of a split concentration on either end. There are more male geniuses but they are balanced out by way more men on the idiot end. (Helps explain Trumpers.) The IQ spectrum of women is concentrated in the middle. While there aren't as many of the Big Bang Theory level geniuses, there also aren't as many fucking morons.

That explains a lot.

There are plenty of stupid women.

[quote]There are plenty of stupid women.

The men who keep saying this in response to simple facts are just proving the point.

r247 it is a simple fact.

R248, you're pretty simple. That's a fact.

r249 you talk and talk and talk but say nothing.

[quote]While there aren't as many of the Big Bang Theory level geniuses, there also aren't as many fucking morons.

As Camille Paglia said: "There is no female Mozart because there is not female Jack the Ripper. They are both extremes at either end of sexual personae."

R251, now the morons above will start listing female serial killers because they can't figure out what we're talking about.

R250, I said plenty above. The response to which was, "Buh, uh, women's is big dummies." The morons, like you, ended the conversation because they can't figure out the simple facts I originally stated and put on their little MRA beanies and posted on DL until their mommies were finished making them their special hot dogs and cheetos dinner.

r252 ad hominem attacks don't suit you. They just make you look ridiculous.

What you posted above was the same shit Camille Paglia as spouting back in the 90s.

Again, moron at R253, it's called google. Go look up 'female male IQ distribution'. Then, grow up. Absolute defensiveness to simple facts is a sign of Trumper level idiocy, especially when the defensiveness also proves you have no clue what I originally wrote.

r254 any moron will tell you that there is no difference between male and female IQ. And typical of an American you hurl the "Trumper" stuff. Newsflash: The US is not the center of the world and your politics are not relevant to us.

Opinions do differ as to the extent and distribution of male IQ variability, including on whether variability can be shown across various cultural and social factors.

The stuff that r254 is spouting are from decades ago and doesn't hold much currency in modern studies.

The fact that there are studies showing differences between male and female iq would tell you moron R255 that it isn't morons who think there are differences. And nobody here but you referenced Camille Paglia.

Why go to college when you can become an OnlyFans whore

The male-female IQ distribution is a real thing, but it ignores the fact that there are still a lot more males in the middle than at either extremes. The average IQ scores of males and females is roughly the same.

R259 the distribution curve is "flatter" for men, but thicker tailed, with mean being roughly the same.

If boys are discouraged from attending college that is a bad thing. However, even some children of the elite or wealthy have eschewed a university education/ and or a professional path. My niece went to school with one of Bruce Springsteen’s sons and he left to become either a firefighter or an EMT. I believe one of the Kennedy grandchildren is an EMT as well. I am impressed these young men are so civically minded when they could live a life of relative ease.

One of the Kennedy grandchildren. What are the other 3,000 of them doing?

R261 Hell I wish there were a lot more of them taking those jobs. A Springsteen or a Kennedy not going to college and working as an EMT is fine because they can afford to and they have no need to build generational wealth. EMTs are woefully underpaid.

College has bankrupted millennials and younger. A 22 year old now will be paying off student loans until they're 50 and they won't see a cent of social security. They are basically medieval serfs to banks. Republicunts and DemocRATs don't do anything because they serve the financial industry first and kids are too brainwashed by social media and red herring social moments to realize they are being robbed blind.

Women are ruining everything. We need to take their rights away. No right to vote and take them out of professions that should be male-dominated (medicine, law, law enforcement, etc.)

[quote]My niece went to school with one of Bruce Springsteen’s sons and he left to become either a firefighter or an EMT. I believe one of the Kennedy grandchildren is an EMT as well. I am impressed these young men are so civically minded when they could live a life of relative ease.

Because their families are FILTHY FUCKING RICH you moron. They have no need to work for a paycheck.

R265, who are you...The Taliban????

I think a lot of people are missing the subtext here.

More men opting out of college means less money generated from sports, for one. A college full of girls isn’t going to have the same level of robust college sports interest as one with more parity. This is one of those “long term/big picture” points. Colleges will still make plenty of money from sports, but this trend could cost them 10s of millions over the next decade.

Second, I know women tend to form like Voltron to protect the sisterhood when it comes to a woman being a victim, but the reality is women want and need to be around men. That man-hating shit gets really old really fast when women are left to their own devices. It’s like when nightclubs overdo it with the Lady’s Night stuff. It’s cool when you have a bunch of men trying to get into the club to socialize with women, but what happens when men stop showing up because they don’t want to pay as much and wait in a long line? You’re just going to have a bunch of women sitting around looking cute. And then they’re gonna stop coming, too.

Women may make better students, but they don’t necessarily make better workers. Women don’t play ball the way men do. You talk to them wrong, you treat them wrong, they’re not just gonna put their heads down and keep working. They’re gonna write letters and complain. They’re gonna take off work and leave early to go to the doctor. Because they have never been told to duck it up and deal with it, they never get the practice, so they don’t do it. So corporations aren’t necessarily eager to have an office full of women, either.

Lastly, the biggest thing is college loan debt. Men are forgoing college which means they don’t start their adult lives out in 5-6 figure debt they can’t write off in bankruptcy. If men are smart they won’t marry a woman with that much debt and only a bachelors and office job to show for it.

Congrats on your USELESS degrees ladies! Enjoy servicing that $80,000 debt via $12/hour pouring coffee for the guys with TRADES who pull in $200,000 a year and zero debt.

[quote] The job market will eventually bend to the fact that not every excellent employee is a college graduate,

Not as long as you have HR people who copy and past job descriptions all over the internet and auto delete anyone without a college degree. Job descriptions generally grow over time, they never seem to get slimmed down. Then that new bloated list of requirements becomes the standard whether it's even relevant to do that actual job or not.

We need more hot blue collar men. Not under paid, unskilled illegible day laborers.

american men will be left in the dustbin of history then

I shouldn't be surprised, but a lot of you people are way off. I employ males and females and males always find ways to get out of work. I don't employ them if I can help out as they are generally lazier, more entitled workers. Gay men tend to be the exception, although there are some who have severe personal problems that interfere with their work. And women are not going to school to study useless majors. They are studying STEM, accounting, finance and other high paying majors. They know that their shelf life is shorter due to pregnancy and unreliable partners, so they're not going to waste time on majors that don't pay well.

Yep R273 that's been my experience as well. Not that women can't be lazy, but as a whole, men are lazier and more unreliable workers. Currently at my work we have six people absent on a team of twelve. Two of them are men who call in sick every fucking Monday. One is another man who is reliable but called in and the other three are women who are reliable but called in. I can set my watch to the men calling in.

Where men excel however, is in creative problem solving and that is worth a lot.

[quote]but the reality is women want and need to be around men

The rest of your post is nonsense but none so much as this ridiculous sentence.

R275 How is what I said nonsense?

Were to begin, r268?

Nah, you're not worth the bother.

But what will Corbin Fisher do!?

R268. the future of all colleges is Smith. No rigorous STEM, no sports, lots of incense burning and lesbianism.

R273 in my experience women who do STEM tend to do STEM-lite. That means Biology over Systems Engineering, front end development over back end development. Not all STEM degrees are fungible.

R269. Those high paying trade jobs have limited positions. The guys making 200k are the undersea welders and oil rig workers. HVAC, plumbers and electricians can make 80-100k. Good, but not great. Still better than being in debt.

80k-100k isn't bad at all if you live outside of the coastal areas. Solidly middle class.

80-100k is a good salary in many areas.

Better to make 80K-100K/year than to be 80k-100k in debt for a communication/Lit degree. Plus, unions, HEY!

[quote] but the reality is women want and need to be around men - Reply: The rest of your post is nonsense but none so much as this ridiculous sentence.

Whoa!!! R275, you are totally out of touch with the vast majority of the human race if you don't grasp that. Yes, most women want to be around men. That's not a good thing or a bad thing. It is just a reality thing. Straight men and straight women want and need each other. Deal.

An old-ish academic joke:

An airplane is cruising at 30,000 feet. A passenger starts seizing and then collapses. A flight attendant gets on the intercom and asks "Are there any doctors on the flight?". Four women with doctorates in the humanities stand up.

The origin of the word doctor is "to teach". I used to think people with medical degrees were the only true doctors until I realized that.

[quote] I employ males and females and males always find ways to get out of work. I don't employ them if I can help out as they are generally lazier, more entitled workers

Meh, it's a wash because while straight men can be like that, many are not. And while woman are usually hard workers, it only counts when they are there. In my field woman take huge amounts of planned time off. Babies, child care, personal days, emergencies, etc. The numbers show they spend more than twice as much time as men taking off for medical reasons. And you can't really question it. The only difference is they announce it ahead of time to appear more professional. But at the end of the day, I am still left with a half empty office of what I though would be paid full time staff.

I'm going to get flamed, but most straight women are pretty useless in an office setting. Lesbians, however, are fantastic. They do the work and GET SHIT DONE.

Some of this is a whopping gender disparity among nonwhite students.

R290 America has given up on black men.