Theatre Gossip #436, Sweet Sue And Her Syncopated Transition Musicians!!

I'm Still Hair!

Previous Thread.

[Quote] can't link i'm shut out the old thread

Just as I suggested on the last thread. Those ornery subscribers of course just gave attitude.

Bump.

A nice title. A NICE title.

Meh

Coming soon-A really mediocre musical about black transsexuals attempting to get into an all-white, heterosexual heaven and God is played by BD Wong.

[quote] What was name of the Mary Louise Wilson play that poster couldn't be bothered to write beyond an ACRONYM? Of course, at this point I can't remember what he (or she) said about it....

Because there was none. All her show titles were written out.

There was no play called ODAAT. That's the abbreviation for the tv show, One Day At A Time, Blanche.

Love the title. Thanks OP!

Catching up on Bygone Broadway on Instagram and I have a question. When did the Broadway lose the side advertising space? I think it's charming.

Buck would never cay-uh about a thread like this!

[quote]Those ornery subscribers of course just gave attitude.

You mean those ornery subscribers who pay for you fucking freeloaders?

How many trannys got work from the march today?

Oh r14 shame on you! That comment is literal murder!

T o respond to the poster from the previous thread, WHOLESALE did play in Detroit. With Larry Kert, Roth, and Carol Arthur as Marmelstein. I remember it as a particularly glum affair. And I was disappointed that Barbra didn't tour. As if.

[quote] When did the Broadway lose the side advertising space?

What do you mean, r11?

The transphobia in some of the recent theater thread comments has really crossed a line. It’s pitiful, really.

Challenge to us all: And entire thread without Follies or trans jokes, just to see if we can. Go....

Not possible, R19. You just mentioned FOLLIES.

What past " Drag Race" contestants should be cast in the new woke revival of " Follies"?

I hate you r21 I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you

No hate, R22. Smile and .................

Too many mornings wasted catching up on Theater Threads...

Ugh. These Theatre Gossip threads...

It's like I'm losing my mind.

But, R25, You're Gonna Love Tomorrow!

It was mentioned only briefly in the last thread but that documentary about Mary Louise Wilson really needs to be seen by every theater lover here. Some of it takes place at a small college where MLW has gone (I believe right after the closing of Grey Gardens) to teach drama to some ungrateful and unprepared wannabes. And then there's all the fascinating stuff about her gay older brother who preceded her to NYC and lived in Greenwich Village. Fascinating story!

R18 Well why don't you simply collapse weeping?

[Quote] You mean those ornery subscribers who pay for you fucking freeloaders?

And more attitude...

[quote]You mean those ornery subscribers who pay for you fucking freeloaders?

Advertising obviously pays for this site. A Theatre Gossip thread gets to 500 posts in 2 days. And then when Muriel pay walls it, it takes 5 more days for the remaining 100 posts to appear.

This site is clearly not paid for by subscribers.

And no one contributing here by posting is a freeloader. The posters compose and contribute - gratis - 100% of the content on this site. Muriel should pay them. Anyone paying Muriel to 'subscribe' to this site is an idiot.

Because bitter old queens like you are too tiresome to waste tears on, R28.

Any estimates of attendance for the trans march on Broadway?

I think R19 has his answer.

BTW, to those on the previous thread wondering why Sondheim's looks improved in middle age, did he not have a heart attack at, I'm going to say 39? The Secrest bio tells us that when he came home after, he told his chef he now had to eat only food recommended by cardiologists and after that he slimmed down considerably. As I'm sure we all would if we had a chef to instruct.

[Quote] As I'm sure we all would if we had a chef to instruct.

You only need yourself to lose the weight, fattie.

Trans march on Broadway attracts throng:

The event, which began at noon in Shapes Meadow in Central Park and travels from Broadway to Schubert Alley – the geographical center of the Broadway universe. It attracted about 200 people and featured speeches from transgender advocates and actors, including Sis, Peppermint, Ian Fields Stuart, Jaya Riley Jr., Kevin Jean, and former “Jagged Little Pill” cast members Iris and Nora Shell.

It's not often that 200 people have been described as a "throng." That whole article reads like it was written by a second-grader. Where the hell is the "Shapes Meadow" in Central Park, and where is the "Schubert" theater? Oh, and I really loved that Broadway musical version of "Tutisi," starring Santino Fontana!

[quote]where is the "Schubert" theater?

San Francisco?

49, r33. And a second one in his early 50s which for some reason isn't in the Secrest.

"There is no 'c' in Shubert. That was a stupid mistake, unworthy of you."

R27. I love that Mary Louise Wilson documentary. So glad she won a Tony for GG but she really was miscast in Cabaret.

Sara Kestelman should have opened the revival in New York as well.

Wish I had seen her in HOT SPOT!

No...just...no.

Sondheim was neighbors with Katharine Hepburn, That’s probably what brought on the heart attack.

Ditto on the Mary Louise Wilson documentary. Loved every minute of it. She says something along the lines of there being a lack of true character actors these days and I agree with her. That's one of the things wrong with Broadway. We need to bring back character actors and real, honest to God broads that made the theatre so much fun in the past.

What Broadway needs to do is kill all the sound designers and technicians.

If the show - book, music, and lyrics - cannot be heard in the back of the house, then it isn't a stage show. Trying to get Broadway musicals to sound like the movies, or worse, is killing it. Opera houses do it. Broadway can, too.

Audiences no longer have to listen because they can't escape the sound being blasted at them. There would be no Ethel Merman today because the sound designer would not permit it.

[quote] She says something along the lines of there being a lack of true character actors these days and I agree with her. That's one of the things wrong with Broadway. We need to bring back character actors

As a character actor, I can tell you they aren’t writing roles for character actors and they use already established actors in these roles even though those actors don’t have the character actor gift. For example: Jake Gyllenhal in Little Shop of Horrors.

Looking at casting for The Music Man, they have Jayne Houdyshell and Jefferson Mays as the Shinns. Both are experienced but predictable. You already know what performance they’re going to give. And where is that diversity? The Shinns are perfect roles to be cast non-white.

Looks like "She's the Best Thing In It" isn't available for streaming.

Not true. Terri White would instruct the sound man on what level to have her mic. They learned that she was right - they wouldn't initially put it as low as she suggested - when her projection overwhelmed the mic. Merman would have been the same.

[Quote] Looks like "She's the Best Thing In It" isn't available for streaming.

It was posted here. Last thread, I think.

I remember years ago seeing “Bring in da Noise…”. The sound was terrible especially with Ann Duquesnay. I had a hard time understanding what she was singing.

R18 We don't. nor ever have needed hall monitors here.

[quote]Terri White would instruct the sound man on what level to have her mic. They learned that she was right - they wouldn't initially put it as low as she suggested - when her projection overwhelmed the mic.

She was amazing.

thanks r50 found it!

We also don't need to be held hostage to one particular poster's mental illness. But here we are.

I’m sure Cameron Mackintosh was shaking in his boots yesterday.

I met Mary Louise Wilson way back in 1973 or so (I was practically a teenager) and told her how much I enjoyed her performance as the author Nancy Blake in the recent (rather lackluster) revival of THE WOMEN. She kindly thanked me and then told me that Rhonda Fleming as Miriam Aarons (the Paulette Goddard role) pulled star rank and tried and somewhat succeeded in stealing some of her best lines.

Mary Louise Wilson's Grey Gardens' co-star did the same thing to Ruthie Henshall in Ziegfeld Follies of 1936.

Incidentally, have the 2020 Tony Awards been given out yet?

sept 26 or are you (not) being funny?

"The Shinns are perfect roles to be cast non-white."

Which would never be the case in the period Hoosier reality of the show.

Who's really going to pay to watch the horseshit Tonys?

R61 - did they move River City to Indiana from Iowa?

Can’t find the MLW documentary anywhere. Not even available to rent on Amazon or iTunes.

R63, that's not the only ignorance coming from R61.

Tutsi! The new musical version of Hotel Rwanda... Now that would be a woke show...

It was posted on the last thread, you fat whore r64.

R60 thank you.. I hadn't heard the latest in months.

[quote] Oh, and I really loved that Broadway musical version of "Tutisi," starring Santino Fontana!

OMG, Thank you! I was sitting there thinking- WTF is Tutisi???

NBC's Joe Fryer interviews Broadway stars in advance of reopening:

Bernadette Peters and Lin-Manuel Miranda on the Privilege of Creativity:

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1948, a revival of "Show Boat" opened at City Center.

Am I wrong in thinking no one really wants Broadway to open yet? It's a huge mistake.

Especially not woke Broadway.

R 71 That's billed as LMM interviewing Bernie, and yet he says twice as much as she does.

[quote] That's billed as LMM interviewing Bernie, and yet he says twice as much as she does.

So he's more restrained than usual?

r75 Who does he think he is -- Julie James?

In fairness, Bernie is never very forthcoming. Does L Chat still think she's a lesbian?

Cast Complete for London Revival of "Cabaret," Starring Eddie Redmayne and Jessie Buckley:

I'm really tired of CABARET. It's a wonderful piece of musical theater. Kudos to all the creators along the way.

But it in a trunk with WEST SIDE STORY and let's take a fresh look in 50 years.

If it's a hit over there, I can't imagine there won't be talk about moving it to Broadway, especially with an Oscar-winning actor as the Emcee.

Will he show his naked ass?

R79 Had no idea Christopher Isherwood was black.

Is it the Rufus Norris production yet again?

As good as it is, is there anything truly fresh to do with Cabaret at this point? Have they tried staging the last verse of the title song on an doctor's table as Sally's getting the baby sucked out of her and then kick the bloody fetus into the audience?

Anyone going to watch BEANIE in that Monica Lewinsky thing premiering tonite. I’ve got my popcorn ready.

Beanie has been virtue signaling all over the place....her job is to "protect Monica" etc. Hasn't that poor woman endured enough?

I think it was fucked how she was treated. Men don't get destroyed by sex. Even George Michael and his toilet antics (or John Gielgud and his) didn't.

I don't think too many people would want to be called to account for everything they did at age 21. Most of us got to screw around and screw up in anonymity. Monica has been paying for decades while Clinton the slimeball skated.

I saw Jessie Buckley in concert several years ago. Unremarkable. Perhaps she's developed a style in the interim.

Beanie's reviews as Monica are pretty dismal. The Times barely mentions her...

Easy Street

Maggie Task went on to become a publisher of gay writing.

[quote] Most of us got to screw around and screw up in anonymity. Monica has been paying for decades while Clinton the slimeball skated.

She paid for her stupidity to tell all to an office shrew with a hidden agenda. If she talked only to professionals (lawyer or shrink) legally required to protect her interests and keep her confidence as no law was broken, she'd have ben fine.

[quote]I think it was fucked how she was treated. Men don't get destroyed by sex

Gary Hart and John Edwards would like a word.

Exactly, r94.

What exactly would the procedure be for Sally’s abortion given the time/place? Pills and a coat hanger? Certainly not a suction device given the circumstances, one assumes.

[quote]What exactly would the procedure be for Sally’s abortion given the time/place?

Too much pills and liquor.

I couldn't think of a duller person to play the Emcee than Redmayne. And I like Jessie Buckley, but Sally she ain't.

Redmayne, 10 years ago, would have been okay as Cliff. But who the hell sees Cabaret for Cliff?

Lewinsky was a bit zaftig but pretty. Beanie is a fat meeskeit.

Does Hollywood know how to cast properly anymore? Remember who they cast as Betty and Dan Broderick in that TV series last year?

[quote]Looking at casting for The Music Man, they have Jayne Houdyshell and Jefferson Mays as the Shinns. Both are experienced but predictable. You already know what performance they’re going to give. And where is that diversity? The Shinns are perfect roles to be cast non-white.

No, actually, the Shinns are among the worst possible examples of roles that could be cast with non-white performers. And since we all know that we're talking about black performers specifically, If there are any roles in THE MUSIC MAN that could be credibly cast with black performers, those roles are Marcellus and Tommy Djilas.

Did anyone bother with Broadway Backwards this year? The same old stuff done again and again. "Cell Block tango", Titus Burgess channelling Jennifer Holiday, another version of "The Man That Got Away" .....

Years ago, I used to work with Edie Cowan (in R92) and Douglas Marland (later the biggest Head Writer in the afternoon soaps) on shows here and there. Doug directed, Edie choreo'd, and I md'd. We did Cabaret in a dinner theater in Pennsylvania and Good News in a community theatre in Queens, using the complete original score, including a few numbers that have to this day never been recorded except on the LP we had privately done.

Richard Sabellico, whose name I sometimes see in cast lists, was in the Good News.

[quote] And since we all know that we're talking about black performers specifically....

No, R102, it does not mean that at all. Your ignorance and your smugness about your ignorance give you away. You are a nasty piece of work and we all can see it.

The Music Man is an extremely well written light musical comedy. It only requires excellent musical performers and it will shine. It makes no demands about race.

Your contemporary racism and the racism found throughout America in the early 1900's are not essential elements of The Music Man. Superimposing them on the play one more time will not in any way improve the coming revival.

The theater is ever so slowly progressing on the subject of race. We no longer need to favor one actor over another on the basis of race to create a winning production of a light hearted musical comedy. We do not need to inject racism into a story that has none.

You and comrades in your backward-looking thinking are being left behind. That's a good thing, R102. Buh-bye.

Several years ago I saw a terrific reading of THE MUSIC MAN at The Two River Theater in Red Bank, NJ (great theater BTW), with an all-black cast. It was the full musical with a small orchestra, not staged but fantastic energy and it really made a case for such a production, much like the all-black Pearl Bailey HELLO DOLLY, which I also saw years ago. I don't suppose we'll ever see that kind of thing on Broadway again though I'm not sure why.

That theater also did a terrifically inventive production of A FUNNY THING HAPPENED..... with an all-male cast (with men costumed as women in the female roles). It was hilarious and made any existing issues of sexism negligible.

r105 it's not as simple as you want to make it seem. There is much debate about "color-blind" casting. I tend to agree with you about its being OK in light musical comedy, but many others don't agree. SO no need to be so smug yourself. And I think r102 is putting forth a more color-[italic]conscious[/italic] idea, with the "bad boy" Tommy Djilas being Black - which has a whole [italic]other[/italic] set of racist problems. So you're both wrong because this is more complicated than you are. And Tommy [italic]will[/italic] be non-white in this new production, a Latinx dancer from "Dance Moms" on TV.

In the 2000 production, Ethel Toffelmier was played by Tracy Nicole Chapman, and it make no difference.

(I smugly fucked up the italics.)

[quote]I tend to agree with you about its being OK in light musical comedy, but many others don't agree.

And because someone night not agree... what? Just roll over and let them fuck you in the ass? I think not.

The elements of the problem and the conclusions they produce are what should be focused on. Not some needy exercise in consensus. Consensus is not required when non-white performers are consistently shut out of remunerative employment and artistic development. Equality of opportunity is required. Decency is required. Fairness is required. A modicum of courage is required to stand up for simple justice.

But for racism in the 1900's and racism now, the ladies of River City could be of any and all races. What matters is that they gossip, dance (sort of,) and censor library books. Not that they are white. ONLY if you willingly introduce racism into The Music Man must they be white.

So Amanda Kloots is going to be on the new season of Dancing with the Stars. She’s really riding her dead husband’s corpse all the way to the bank.

[quote]Just roll over and let them fuck you in the ass?

Pics please.

I saw that all-male Forum in NJ and thought it was just okay. Community theater level acting. Would love to see the same concept with better performers.

didn't that have Christopher Fitzgerald and wasn't it directed by his wife?

When Whoopi Goldberg took over the role of Pseudolus in the Broadway FORUM revival, an old friend of mine was apoplectic about it. "Pseudolus is not a woman! Pseudolus is not black!' He was furious. About the sex and race of a fictional character. In a farce.

There is no sex or gender mentioned for Pseudolus. The character has no romantic entanglement to complicate the matter. Sex and gender is irrelevant to Pseudolus. The character is not concerned with either.

Pseudolus is one thing. A slave desperately craving freedom. But my friend could not see why a black actor could play that part.

It's all so sad.

[quote]Looking at casting for The Music Man, they have Jayne Houdyshell and Jefferson Mays as the Shinns.

Just be thankful it's not Bill Irwin.

[quote]If there are any roles in THE MUSIC MAN that could be credibly cast with black performers, those roles are Marcellus and Tommy Djilas.

What about Amaryllis?

Beanie was terrible as Monica but Sarah Paulson was a campy delight (did Linda Tripp have a lisp?). Edie Falco was properly frigid as Hil. I’ll keep watching for them.

[quote] There is no sex or gender mentioned for Pseudolus. The character has no romantic entanglement to complicate the matter. Sex and gender is irrelevant to Pseudolus.

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the show, but isn’t there a throughline about Pseudolus trying to have sex with Gymnasia? Or is that more of a staging thing and not really in the text? How did they handle it with Whoopi?

"Color-blind casting" always means blacks in the roles originated by whites. You will NEVER see a white man , Asian, or Latino play Troy Maxon in " Fences."

Whoopi had a lot of wonderful, funny, and entirely appropriate reactions to the courtesans and to Hero's reactions to them. She brought an entirely new way of presenting the courtesans and reacting to them. The scene with the courtesans was great. And new. And I had not anticipated all the new aspects she brought to it.

Were they...new, r120?

o r119 relax. Fences is [italic]about[/italic], quite specifically, a Black family and the Black experience. Our historically white theatre isn't necessarily about white culture, just culture, even though we've always defaulted to making them white.

I'd be fine seeing a white person in Fences. It would be hilarious

Gary Hart and John Edwards were not destroyed by their sex scandals. Their wives didn't even leave them.

With a Mess of Fabrics, Broadway’s Costume Shops Return to Work:

Long Days Journey... is about an Irish Family yet it’s been performed with an all black cast. Plays and musicals based on real people who are white are cast with POC performers in those roles. But you’ll never see a white actor cast in a role originated by a POC.

Wasn't Angelina Jolie nominated for an Oscar for playing a real woman who was actually black?

You didn't see Jerri Blank in A Raisin In the Sun?

R124 You don’t consider dying leaving?

[Quote] Long Days Journey... is about an Irish Family yet it’s been performed with an all black cast. Plays and musicals based on real people who are white are cast with POC performers in those roles. But you’ll never see a white actor cast in a role originated by a POC.

Something tells me you've never spent a second of time complaining about white actors playing nonwhite characters in Hollywood movies.

[quote]But you’ll never see a white actor cast in a role originated by a POC.

R126, what is your point in making that statement? You've asserted a fact (that may or may not be true, though it is certainly inflammatory.) But why? What is the larger point you are trying to make with that statement?

r124, I think she left him before she died, no? Or was in the process of doing so when her cancer returned.

[quote]The theater is ever so slowly progressing on the subject of race. We no longer need to favor one actor over another on the basis of race to create a winning production of a light hearted musical comedy. We do not need to inject racism into a story that has none.

The show as originally written and presented has no racism in it (or almost no racism in it) because all of the characters are white, as they are would be realistically. All of the River Citizens are "the same kind of people." It's supposed to be a rigid, closed society that looks down on people who are in any way different, including white strangers like Harold Hill and also those in their own circle who are in any way different, as for example Tommy Djilas, who was given an "ethnic" name by Meredith Willson for that specific reason. There is also a brief reference to Tommy's ethnicity, and a mention that he and his family live on "the wrong side of the tracks."

[quote]And I think [R102] is putting forth a more color-conscious[/itali - c] idea, with the "bad boy" Tommy Djilas being Black - which has a whole other set of racist problems.

No, the point is that Tommy Djilas is only perceived to be a "bad boy," but he turns out to be a good boy when Harold Hill gives him a purpose. That's why I think the role would be perfectly cast with a POC, to stress the irrational bigotry of the townspeople. How you can see that as "racist" is beyond me.

[quote]I saw that all-male Forum in NJ and thought it was just okay. Community theater level acting. Would love to see the same concept with better performers.

All of those actors, including Christopher Fitzgerald, Michael Urie, Kevin Isola, David Turner, Eddie Cooper, David Joselfsberg, et al., are very well regarded and have lots of major theater credits, including Broadway. So your comment about "community theater-level acting" just makes YOU sound foolish.

To be honest, and I do like him, Michael Urie’s acting can come off as a bit wanting, and I’ve seen him in multiple shows, big and small.

[quote]There is no sex or gender mentioned for Pseudolus. The character has no romantic entanglement to complicate the matter. Sex and gender is irrelevant to Pseudolus. The character is not concerned with either. Pseudolus is one thing. A slave desperately craving freedom. But my friend could not see why a black actor could play that part. It's all so sad.

Rubbish. FORUM and the characters in it are based on comic tropes that go back to theater in ancient Rome and Greece and continued on through the vaudeville era. It's true that the main point of Pseudolus's character is his longing for freedom, but he's also supposed to be a very specific type, a naturally horny guy who lusts over voluptuous women like Gymnasia. The relationship between Pseudolus and Hero is supposed to be specifically that of a male slave to his master, and much of the story is made hash of if Pseudolus is played by a woman, whether that means the character is now supposed to actually be a woman or is still supposed to be a man although played by a woman.

Tradition! Tradition!

Do you get bent out of shape if a male plays Peter Pan?

[quote]To be honest, and I do like him, Michael Urie’s acting can come off as a bit wanting, and I’ve seen him in multiple shows, big and small.

I guess his "acting can come off as a bit wanting" when he's miscast, as he was in TORCH SONG. But he's great when he's well cast, And he did go to Juilliard, which is impressive to some of us, anyway.

Didn't Patty Lapone go to Juilliard?

R136 that's a lot of 'supposed to be' with no reason stated why this is supposed to be or why it simply cannot be anything else.

Suggesting history as a reason really is falling back on a millenia or two of racism and sexism and your refusal to put an end to them.

Betsy/Nora

The production of A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM with Christoper Fitzgerald direct by his wife, Jessica Stone, was at Williamstown in Massachusetts. Did the same production also play at a theatre in New Jersey?

this shit isn't hard and we aren't your google r142

But Whoopi isn't exactly a woman woman.

[quote]Suggesting history as a reason really is falling back on a millenia or two of racism and sexism and your refusal to put an end to them.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that we should do everything possible to foster the creation of NEW theater works that specifically call for or are at least open to diverse casting without flying in the face of history and without trying to retrofit old works in ways that make no sense. This is how August Wilson felt the issue should be approached, and some of us agree with him. (I'm only dealing with the "racism" subject here, maybe I'll argue the "sexism" stuff with you some other time.)

She can bring home the bacon *and* fry it up in a pan, r144.

ok that was invigorating. back to gossip

Is [italic]Moulin Rouge[/italic] a slam-dunque for the Tony? Does [italic]Jagged[/italic] have a chance? Isn't that Eva Price woman already insufferable enough?

Are you bothered by all male productions? My most enjoyable evening of Shakespeare was a Russian All Male cast in "Twelfth Night."

Are there any theater works created by black people just for entertainment purposes? They all seem to be about message. Other than Tyler Perry are there any writers, say like Neil Simon, who just write comedies for black people to enjoy without being hit over the head with a message?

oh god please stop

Come see us on Broadway, 149!

All black cast with Michael Urie as the token white.

Well, actually his role HAS to be played by a white man.

[quote]So Amanda Kloots is going to be on the new season of Dancing with the Stars. She’s really riding her dead husband’s corpse all the way to the bank.

What a nice thing to say. You must be such a lovely person.

It's come to this: Cinderella interpolating a 1980s pop hit.

What a lackluster performance from Idina, isn’t she a multiple time Tony award winner? She’s looking very hard too.

I second the comment about The Widow Kloots. She really is a mercenary corpse fucker.

I wouldn't envy a single mother. Make that money, Mandy.

[quote]Are there any theater works created by black people just for entertainment purposes? They all seem to be about message. Other than Tyler Perry are there any writers, say like Neil Simon, who just write comedies for black people to enjoy without being hit over the head with a message?

Does anyone remember the play BLUE? Roundabout produced it at their Gramercy Square theater back in 2001. Phylicia Rashad starred. They extended it a million times and it was a giant hit for them. It wasn't high art, but it was a good, solid comedy. Very middlebrow; not at all the sort of pandering drivel Tyler Perry puts on. Sort of an African American version of a boulevard comedy. Because it was such a big hit, I had hopes that more shows like this would crop up, but sadly...

Hey Sutton haters: Fresh meat!

[quote]Suggesting history as a reason really is falling back on a millenia or two of racism and sexism and your refusal to put an end to them.

Double "oh, dear."

Oh good. We can get away from colorblind casting and eat Foster(in another one of those endless fucking tap numbers) alive like Komodo dragons.

Plays by and about Blacks show the lives Blacks lead. And yes, Black lives are awash in racism. If that's the "message" people are concerned about, maybe society needs to stop being racist.

Not to mention, R161, I'm sure the person who wrote that message above about black writers has never been bothered by all of the "message" plays written by gay white male playwrights dealing with being gay in a straight society.

[quote]Suggesting history as a reason really is falling back on a millenia or two of racism and sexism and your refusal to put an end to them.

What are you saying? That the only way to end racism/sexism is to ignore the past, pretend it didn't happen, and simply rewrite it to fit your agenda?

Annie Warbucks

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1975, "The Concert: Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, and Count Basie" opened at the Uris Theatre.

[quote] What are you saying? That the only way to end racism/sexism is to ignore the past, pretend it didn't happen, and simply rewrite it to fit your agenda?

Equality is such a horrible agenda...

[quote] What are you saying? That the only way to end racism/sexism is to ignore the past, pretend it didn't happen, and simply rewrite it to fit your agenda?

In fact, casting a black person in a white person's role doesn't ignore the past. It actually amplifies the past and makes us remember how white centric we have been

[quote]It actually amplifies the past and makes us remember how white centric we have been

Because the U.S. has been predominantly white since its inception. At one point, it was 95% white, nowadays its around 75%. By contrast, blacks are only 13% of the population even today. Thus, everything was catered to whites in this country because they were the great majority, the biggest consumers. And they still are, but the far-left wants to pretend that all the races/ethnicities are equally distributed throughout the country. In short, Hollywood and Broadway will fail if they only focus on black consumers. After all, it is a show BUSINESS.

Are Karen Ziemba and Kathryn Zaremba close or mortal enemies?

R166 anything is horrible that tries to interpret the past to suit their agenda, yes. Besides, what the far left wants is not equality; it's revenge. Hence, all their recent discrimination against whites in the entertainment industry, which the far-left currently controls. They are acting like the fascists they accuse the right of being. They discriminate based on skin color/sexual orientation, encourage militant tactics, and enforce censorship toward things that offend them.

[quote]They are acting like the fascists they accuse the right of being.

No they're not.

Those currently running the show in Hollywood and Broadway will not be viewed in a good light by historians, just like those running things in the '40s and '50s who contributed to the Red Scare and Communist Witch Hunt are not fondly revered.

R168, Hollywood is making a financial decision. Blacks may be 13% of the population but minority groups, as a whole, are approaching 50% and not everyone wants to see only the lives of white people.

Jews make up 2%. Does that mean there should be no Jewish representation on screen and stage?

R171 yes, they do. Casting directors (many who are ultra-liberal white women) are discriminating against whites, straight white American males, in particular. And they do encourage their followers to wreak havoc and destroy property/harm people. And you can't tell me that artists of all types (especially comedians) are not being hindered by censorship coming from the left.

[quote] Besides, what the far left wants is not equality; it's revenge.

So Audra MacDonald as Mama Rose is revenge despite the fact that she would be the best candidate around now for the role?

R154 Multiple nominee (Rent & If/Then) One time winner (Wicked)

[quote] Because the U.S. has been predominantly white since its inception. At one point, it was 95% white, nowadays its around 75%. By contrast, blacks are only 13% of the population even today.

Yes, the demographics are changing quickly. Audiences are changing quickly. Keep up with the times or lose everyone in a generation.

[Quote] discrimination against whites in the entertainment industry

Lol.

I was shocked to learn that the residents of River City rarely, if ever, broke out into spontaneous song and dance! How are we tolerating such historical inaccuracy!

If Babs Cook could play Fanny Brice, Audra Ann...

East-West Players in LA routinely does plays/musicals with all or mostly Asian casts. I've seen "Mamma Mia" there; and I had tickets for their "Assassins" until it was cancelled by the pandemic. They've done lots of shows like "Steel Magnolias" and "Next to Normal" that are generally not cast with non-white actors.

I also saw a local high school production of "Curtains." The school is located in a majority Asian area, and the cast was at least 80% Asian.

Technically shouldn’t Mamma Mia be an all Swedish cast?

TRANS!

[quote] East-West Players in LA routinely does plays/musicals with all or mostly Asian casts.

And afterwards they love you long time.

You're a laugh riot, r184.

Spare us from Audra McDonald's Juilliard-toned Madame Rose.

[quote]So Audra MacDonald as Mama Rose is revenge despite the fact that she would be the best candidate around now for the role?

Even if you take race out of the picture entirely, Audra would be hopelessly miscast as Rose in terms of her vocal type and her acting style.

SARAVA!

[quote] Not to mention, [R161], I'm sure the person who wrote that message above about black writers has never been bothered by all of the "message" plays written by gay white male playwrights dealing with being gay in a straight society.

I’m not against message plays. I’m taking about a variety of options. Gays have had a variety for many years. Message plays like The Normal Heart and sheer entertainment like the Howard Crabtree shows and Naked Boys Singing.

[Quote] Technically shouldn’t Mamma Mia be an all Swedish cast?

There should be at least one cast member from Norway.

Exactly, r187.

[quote] Even if you take race out of the picture entirely, Audra would be hopelessly miscast as Rose in terms of her vocal type and her acting style.

Oh, please. She's perfect for it. She's perfect in everything she tries

Audra IS Peter Pan!

Audra loves being on the verge in her performances. It's a valid approach to Rose.

Sutton sang "intruding on nudist parties." Isn't it "indulging in nudist parties"?

It's intruding. Note that intrud(e) and nud(e) creates an internal rhyme, for which Porter was famous.

I do not want to think of either Sutton Foster or Cole Porter nude.

You're so right. I looked up in the COMPLETE LYRICS. Pretty sure though that the Eileen Rodgers version uses indulging.

So did Jeanne Aubert. Blame Wodehouse?

R174 Give some examples then to back up your claims

I love Eileen Rodgers' voice.

her Gabriel...

The Merm in concert with Mary Martin at the Broadway Theatre in 1977.

Does anyone happen to have a link to the National Theatre Live Phedre starring Helen Mirren and Dominic Cooper? Thank you in advance if so!

Anyone who thinks Audra is a good actress clearly didn’t see her in Frankie and Johnny.

I have never understood the Audra praise, even going back to her Carrie Pipperidge. She always seems to telegraph the character's feelings before speaking their lines.

Speaking of plays that won't sell tickets...

Eileen was the "broad" that Sutton most definitely is not.

Take her back.

Good God, r136 is a bore, and oh so touchy when it comes to anything dealing with race. Thank God r136 doesn’t set the rules. He thinks he does, but he doesn’t. His opinion on what or whom Pseudolus should be is irrelevant. The producers liked Whoopi for it and she was a big hit. What 136 thinks couldn’t be less important.

Stop talking about the cake!!!

[quote]You're so right. I looked up in the COMPLETE LYRICS. Pretty sure though that the Eileen Rodgers version uses indulging.

Yes, for some reason, that line was unnecessarily and poorly rewritten for that production, and there are a couple of other equally weird and ineffective lyric rewrites on that cast album as well -- example, the line about Mae West. A weird, unfortunate flaw in what was apparently an otherwise excellent production.

[quote]Good God, [R136] is a bore, and oh so touchy when it comes to anything dealing with race. Thank God [R136] doesn’t set the rules. He thinks he does, but he doesn’t.

You believe that I think I "set the rules" for color- and gender-blind casting? Believe me, I'm well aware that I do not, but if I did, I don't think I could do a worse job of it than the people who actually do set the rules.

Eileen's best selling record...

And yet, the public disagrees with you, r212. So many of the things you deride are big hits. People want to see them. Audra McDonald is a theatrical superstar whose name sells tickets.

Your racism betrays your mental illness.

You’re pathetic.

Anything goes, dolls! Anything…

Start your own fucking thread to argue over Black people in the theater. This shit has been going on for way too many recent threads.

R204, I don't have the link that's been on here, but I can tell you that Phedre is one of many NT plays on the streaming service NT at Home, to which you can subscribe for $15 or so a month. You can subscribe for one month and just watch Phedre if you like.

If you're thinking of subscribing, I do recommend the Julius Caesar, in which Caesar enters in a black leather jacket, long red tie and red baseball cap.

[quote]There is no sex or gender mentioned for Pseudolus.

There doesn't have to be. Pseudolus follows the Latin structure of a male name. The "us" tells you he's not a woman.

I'm making no comment about whether it's legit to play him as a woman or not, I'm just letting you know.

Very interesting, R218

At the performance of the Whoopi FORUM I saw, there was such joy onstage and such love pouring from the audience that I doubt there were many leaving the theater debating the fine points of the Latin structure of a male name.

"Start your own fucking thread to argue over Black people in the theater.'

We haven't yet explored the nuances of a black performer playing one of the leads in " Follies" and how it would change the entire dynamic.

I'm surprised there wasn't more of an outcry about casting Whoopi as a comical slave.

Oh, yes, R221. That is interesting.

It would be interesting to explore why a white Ben chose a white Phyllis over a black Sally.

Or, if Ben was black, why he chose a black Phyllis over a white Sally. Or conversely, how different it would be if a black Ben chose a white Phyllis over a black Sally. The road you didn't take, indeed.

There are lots of possibilities. Some might seem contrived, but others might produce some very worthy ideas.

I watched that Chichester "South Pacific" last night (thanks to the person who posted the link.) Very enjoyable for the most part. I was unfamiliar with any of the performers other than Ovenden, but everyone was fine. I thought the Bloody Mary had a really lovely voice. The staging was rather "busy" sometimes, and Nellie seems to have acquired a substantial amount of pandemic poundage, but that didn't affect the performance. It was interesting seeing a fully masked audience, and when the performers were out in the audience and talking or singing, they had masks on as well, and subtly removed them once they went onto the stage. It felt nice finally seeing a new production of a live musical.

Julian Ovenden is surely the luckiest man working in the theater today.

He's only barely good enough for any of the roles he is given. He's not awful. But he's not great. And he's not nearly as versatile as his resume might suggest.

There might be a leading role for which he is perfect, but I can't think what it might be.

Hear hear r216. It's just two loons doing all the bickering right? I see that r136 has about a dozen posts. Oy, it's tiresome when Les Insufferables hijack a thread. Go meet for some bitter coffee, you two.

PS And discussing the legitimacy of Whoopi's casting is an out-and-out farce is beyond the beyond in pedantic insufferability (insufferableness? insufferance? insufferation?)

Insufferation!

BRAVO!

I saw David Alan Grier who replaced Whoopi later in the run of "Forum", and he was very charming and good in the role.

Has there ever been a black Sally Bowles? Or a black Emcee?

We almost got Ruth Gordon as an Emcee who Bob Fosse originally wanted instead of Joel Grey. Fosse apparently didn't want the classic performance which made Grey at a star on Broadway, but eventually came around to it. Gwen probably told him he was nuts not to, but I think Fosse still gave Grey a hard time on set.

There was a Latinx emcee when Jon Seceda did Roundabout's. He was really awful and a very strange shade of beige with the whiteish full body makeup they insisted on putting on everyone.

Look further. Think bigger.

Of course there have been productions of CABARET from many different perspectives featuring casts of all backgrounds. And sometimes that allows one to escape the tired Sam Mendes production.

Por ejemplo.

[quote]Discussing the legitimacy of Whoopi's casting is an out-and-out farce is beyond the beyond in pedantic insufferability

In your opinion. Others understand that FORUM is based on classic comic tropes that began with the ancient Greeks and Romans and were perpetuated over the centuries through burlesque and vaudeville and beyond. That's why it makes no sense for Pseudolus to be played by a woman. Whoopi was signed for that show because she was a big star who wanted to play that particular role for some reason, and the producers knew she would sell tons of tickets. If Hugh Jackman wanted to play the title role in MAME or Lady Gaga wanted to play Tevye in FIDDLER, they would sell out the theater also, but that doesn't mean they would be right for those parts.

[quote]Others understand that FORUM is based on classic comic tropes that began with the ancient Greeks and Romans and were perpetuated over the centuries through burlesque and vaudeville and beyond. That's why it makes no sense for Pseudolus to be played by a woman.

No. How it was done in the past is not a restriction of any kind on how it can be done in the present or at some time in the future. It's only how it was done in the past. Nothing more.

Your argument is built on nothing because your premise is incorrect. Past productions of a play are not controlling on future productions.

R235, I agree with you in spirit, but it all depends on the specific production and how far, if at all, it strays from the authors' intentions.. So you go see the new productions you want to see, I'll do the same, and we can leave it at that.

The new Cabaret revival will feature a black Cliff. Leslie Ugandan played Sally in stock back in the early 70s I think. Talk about groundbreaking.

Leslie Ugandan....that's so clever, r237.

Does anyone remember offhand whether Sondheim ever commented on Whoopi in the role?

I'm sure he commented that he would prefer direct deposit to a check r238.

yes r234 [italic]everything[/italic] here is in someone's opinion. Including, too often, yours.

Next.

I'm trying to remember back when Whoopi was cast in Forum. I didn't see the production until David Alan Grier went into it (and he was wonderful, as was the production), but I thought that Whoopi (or someone from the production) said we should look at her Pseudolus as a man, not a woman. I could be remembering that incorrectly, though.

I do remember that among the Broadway community, there was some buzz about a black actor playing a slave role, but it died down pretty quickly and was more of the "hmmm, how is that going to play?" than today's norm of "burn them all that the stake." And I do recall Whoopi's reviews were good and she was very well received and helped inject life into the box office.

One of the original productions of "Cabaret" had a female Emcee. I think it was the Dutch production.

R238. Holy shit I typed Uggams and I don’t know what the fuck happened after that. So sorry. No disrespect intended. I need to proof before I hit POST.

[quote—Michael Learned, posting from beyond the grave.

A pretty neat trick for someone who's still alive.

Michael Learned doesn’t strike me as someone who was that technically savvy to begin with let alone across spectral plains. Now Patricia Neal is another story all together, that broad could do amazing things.

Wasn't she "cuckolded" by a friend?

You mean *Tony Award winning* Patricia Neal, r245...

Is it true that Michael Learned wasn’t?

She was dumb as a bedpost, r248.

[quote]—Ellen Corby

Ellen, did you know that your husband Will Geer was a big ol' homosexualist? Oh, wait. You were lesbionic. Never mind.

R224, Gina Beck, who played Nellie Forbush in that video, was pregnant and left the production a few weeks later. I love SOUTH PACIFIC and found this production very disappointing beyond the miscasting of Julian Ovenden as Emile de Becque.

Is Lambert Wilson the only French actor to play Emile in a major production?

Interesting fact I just learned, the mid century vibing ultra cool Cody house in Animal Kingdom, was built on the backlot on top of where the Walton’s house used to be.

Your sentence construction bothers me.

[quote]Gina Beck, who played Nellie Forbush in that video, was pregnant and left the production a few weeks later.

Was it a mixed-race child?

Interesting tidbit: that photo of Patricia Neal at r247 is of her as young Regina Giddens in Lillian Hellman's Another Part of the Forest, Hellman's "prequel" to The Little Foxes. Great play. I don't know why it's never revived, or better yet, performed as a double bill with Foxes.

2nd tidbit: just a year or 2 before the photo was taken, Pat O'Neal was DL Fave Vivian Vance's understudy in the national tour of The Voice of the Turtle. This is the job in which our Viv had her first nervous breakdown, causing her to leave the stage in mid-performance (yielding to star-to-be Patricia O'Neal) and not to return to acting again until her husband (player of Dore Schary) convinced to accept an offer to play the role again at La Jolla Playhouse a few years later. This is where Desi Arnaz first saw our Viv and was so impressed, offered her the role of Ethel Mertz during the intermission.

Whoopi in "Forum"---

Whoopi in "Forum"---

I watched parts of the Chichester South Pacific. It was perfectly fine (but where was the glorious overture?). That said, it just made me want to rewatch the Lincoln Center production. (Please show it again, PBS!) I had to laugh, though -- apparently, costume designers cannot dress actors playing Emile. If Ovenden's pants hadn't come nearly up to his nipples he would have looked much taller. (And Paulo Szot had that dumb snap-on bandanna that made his big neck look even bigger.)

I always thought Marty Short would've been the obvious choice to replace Nathan Lane in FORUM. Or certainly headline another revival of it. Like Lane, he has that old school vaudeville/slapstick sensibility that few in the generations below have.

Interestingly, I know Jo Ann Worley was signed on to lead the National Tour of the '96 revival. But when they wouldn't accommodate her menagerie of dogs on tour, they swiftly replaced her with Rip Taylor. Who, love him or hate him, was quite hysterical in the part. I imagine he killed it in Sugar Babies as a replacement for Mickey Rooney too.

Yes, R259, it was fine but not anywhere near the level of performance I expected from the Chichester Festival.

[Quote] I have never understood the Audra praise, even going back to her Carrie Pipperidge. She always seems to telegraph the character's feelings before speaking their lines.

Um, you mean like all the great actors do?

r262 no great actor indicates

Well, shit, now I want to see a top-drawer revival of Forum, a show I've only seen in a wretched community theatre production. (No, the movie doesn't count.) Surely, Broadway could use a show like Forum now. But, off the top of my head, I'm stumped as to whom to cast as Pseudolus.

R262 doesn't seem to understand that "telegraphing" in reference to acting is a pejorative term, but felt it necessary to comment anyway. Here you go, R262:

[quote]Telegraphing, in the creation or performance of creative works, is conveying information to the audience through acting or nonverbal clues, providing a clear hint of the meaning or outcome of a dramatic action. Telegraphing may undercut suspense by advance disclosure or extreme hinting of an element in a composition, narrative plot, or recitation. A familiar example is stand-up comic and comedy films "telegraphing" the punch line of a joke, i.e. making its outcome obvious before it happens.

I've watched some of the Chichester SOUTH PACIFIC, enough to know that the director made the incredibly strange and damaging decision to add a framing device that attempts to tell the story as seen through the eyes of...... wait for it.....Liat, with her as the central character. (I'm not making this up, you know.) Another major flaw in the production is that, as an overreaction against the typical casting of Bloody Mary, here she is a quite young looking and very attractive, which goes against the text. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

Forum requires a whole cast of actors who understand burlesque and burlesque clowns. Hard to find these days.

How a TV Ad Enticed Broadway Crowds Right After 9/11:

[quote]Well, shit, now I want to see a top-drawer revival of Forum, a show I've only seen in a wretched community theatre production. (No, the movie doesn't count.) Surely, Broadway could use a show like Forum now. But, off the top of my head, I'm stumped as to whom to cast as Pseudolus.

There was to have been a 2015 Broadway revival with James Corden, but it was canceled (or postponed indefinitely). See article at link.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1982, a return engagement of "Your Arms Too Short to Box With God" opened at the Alvin Theatre.

James Corden as Pseudolus, of course.

Holland...

FORUM is and always will be one of my favorite musicals. Whoopi's clips showed that she wasn't totally polished, but earnest, committed, and charming as hell.

Please oh please not James Corden as Pseudolus....or any other character, for that matter.

[quote] no great actor indicates

Of course great actors indicate. Any actor that only indicates when he talks isn't so great.

I adore Forum and I’d love to see it done on a professional scale again. But I can’t see how it’s produceable in this day and age. The manufactured outrage would be wearying and deafening. And the NYTimes would never shut up about how 'offensive' it’s female characters are.

Maybe if you had a bulletproof star…

Flip the genders.

They had Corden before his TV show, his getting the show is what canceled it, I don't remember how big a name he was at that time

Nathan Lane was perfection.

I didn't read the linked article but I know Corden was offered his late night CBS show right after he was offered Forum and it was one or the other. The late night offer also prevented his hosting the Tonys that season, as had been planned.

Zaks and Rob Marshall nailed that production. The opening number was spot on, especially the fake Medea, twice. Does anyone know if that bit was new to this production? I know I don't remember it from Jerome Robbins' Broadway. Also the fake curtain bit at 8 min 24 sec

Thanks, R280! Now really really want to see great production of Forum. I'm also adding that production of my list of Dream DVDs of Professional Filmed and Edited Broadway Productions (see also: the Lane-Prince Guys and Dolls).

Could Nathan Lane maybe do a limited run? Or is the physical strain too much at his age? He looks pretty energetic to me. I also think Christopher Fitzgerald could be great in the part, but maybe not a big enough name to sell tickets. How about Eric Stonestreet? Jackie Hoffman would make a great Domina.

Bryan Cranston?

Nathan & Co.

More Nathan & Co.

Still more Nathan & Co.

Trying to find an actor to star in Forum only highlights how far downhill Broadway has gone. They simply don't make actors in that tradition anymore. Or at least they don't hire them.

I'd like to see forum re-written by Jeremy O. Harris.

Beanie IS Hysterium!

Please, don't mention Rob McClure! (Oops)

As good as that revival's opening number is, it can't hold a candle to Robbins' original, as seen in JR Broadway.

r274 uses the word "performer." I guarantee it.

For f**k's (I know, how quaint) sake, there hasn't been a more diverse and inclusive populist medium in the last 125 years than theatre, specifically musical theatre, which has included integrated casts, black headliners and stars, black-themed subject matter, et al. So enough with the breast-beating and the self-victimizing platitudes.

"The manufactured outrage would be wearying and deafening. And the NYTimes would never shut up about how 'offensive' it’s female characters are." No doubt. Which is why Erich Segal's (yes, THAT Erich Segal) book, THE DEATH OF COMEDY is such an important read. At the very heart of comedy is appetite, phallic potency and a celebration of life. Without it, you have sterility, impotency and death. No wonder our comedies, musical and otherwise, are moribund.

From the Forum clips posted here, Nathan, as great as he is, hardly plays Pseudolus as a libidinous heterosexual. He's actually quite wonderfully nelly.

Isn't he always?

Joe Papp was doing major productions back in the 60s that were racially diverse and nobody forced him to nor did he make major pronouncements. Two Gentlemen had 4 leads none of whom was white. It was quite a happy terrific production with nobody shoe-horned in with a big sign over their head saying 'Look a person of color!'

Lane never gave a better performance than as the very straight Hubie in Do-Re-Mi for Encores, IMO. I really think it's the best thing I've ever seen him do, and the performance even translates to the cast recording.

r168 no America was ORIGINALLY full of native people that were slaughtered by white people who then took over and kept their majority through violence and murder

r175 I don't think Audra is the best candidate for the role.

I think Jane Krakowski is the best candidate for the role imho.

Black or white I'm for whoever best fits the role.

Jane Krakowski is a second banana. She could play Tessie.

Caroline O'Connor was a strong Rose in Leicester.

Doesn't hurt to give her a chance r300, maybe a limited run or a start out of town.

I saw O’Connor as Rose. She was good in an oddly misguided production. The chorus boys were shirtless & oiled. Really.

Richard Fleeshman's father played Herbie. His accent kept disappearing.

Her Rose's Turn could use some Nervine.

[quote]The chorus boys were shirtless & oiled.

I tried that, but Bernadette wouldn't have it in *HER* show. She forgets the show is called "Gypsy" not "Rose".

RIP Liz McCann.

[quote] not to return to acting again until her husband (player of Dore Schary) convinced to accept an offer to play the role again at La Jolla Playhouse a few years later.

Not quite accurate. Viv did a TV film & a couple of small movie roles in 1949, 1950 & 51, before the La Jolla gig. She’s especially good in an unsympathetic part in The Secret Fury. But La Jolla was her first time back on stage.

Where the hell is my Tony?

I supposed you could have Dainty June's farmboys wearing no shirts (or underwear) with their overalls ...

Did Minsky’s ever branch out into make strip shows?

Male

Wasn’t there a production of South Pacific that took place in a navy hospital and the patients and staff performed the show?

That looks to be from when she played the role in Australia. The costume is dreadful.

r305, I mean.

[quote]Wasn’t there a production of South Pacific that took place in a navy hospital and the patients and staff performed the show?

NYU

I read scripts for Liz McCann and Nelle Nugent, her producing partner, in the 80s. They were two tough bitches to work for, but they cranked out a series of great productions, including Nicholas Nickleby, Amadeus, and The Elephant Man. Nelle was a cool, elegant UES matron, Liz a scrappy dyke. Never wanted to cross either of them, but what a legacy they left. (I know Nelle is still alive, but probably in retirement.)

Can I have her Tonys?

How many of those productions were transfers?

Many. Liz McCann had deep connections to London theater. She worked to bring the very best of it to Broadway. She was trusted by her colleagues in London to do it well. And she did. She was immensely important to Broadway and to the London theater for several decades.

Talk about DL catnip! Selectively chosen “best” moments to make an ultimate “Rose’s Turn” phantasmagoria…

The trailer for DIANA: THE MUSICAL drops!

Chills.

I thought Kristen Stewart was starting in this?

[quote] Viv did a TV film & a couple of small movie roles in 1949, 1950 & 51

What was a "TV film" in 1949-51?

Dagmar Does Dallas?

[quote] (I know Nelle is still alive, but probably in retirement.)

She's still at it. She'll have the revival of For Colored Girls... on Broadway later this season.

[quote]Wasn’t there a production of South Pacific that took place in a navy hospital and the patients and staff performed the show?

[quote]NYU

On the college level you expect experimental. When Anne Bogart was Artistic Director at Trinity Rep, she did On The Town set on a battleship.

Trinity Rep also did the Annie where she wakes up at the end and it was a dream and she’s back in the orphanage. They’ve done some excellent productions but they’ve also had their piles of crap productions.

IIRC, the NYU South Pacific was hallucinated by a soldier hospitalized with shell shock. It was at least 30 years ago.

Doyle did sweeney on Broadway with Patti and Cerveris and all the rest in a mental institution complete with straitjackets (and for some reason tubas).

R327 Does that Annie end with a downbeat reprise of Hard Knock Life?

R329 You gotta have a gimmick, some do it with a horn!

According to IMDB, Vivian Vance's film credits before I LOVE LUCY:

1933 - TAKE A CHANCE Dancehall Girl (uncredited)

1949 - THE PHILCO TELEVISION PLAYHOUSE (1 episode)

1950 - THE SECRET FURY Leah

1951 THE BLUE VEIL Alicia

[quote] Doyle did sweeney on Broadway with Patti and Cerveris and all the rest in a mental institution complete with straitjackets (and for some reason tubas).

Patti in a mental institution? It’s like some sort of wonderful dream!!!

Sounds like Marat/Todd.

Are you sure that wasn't just auditions in Sondheim's basement, R329?

R329 is right. What happens to Tobias after he sees and knows what went on with Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett? Well, it's pretty clearly dramatized by the end of the play.

So setting SWEENEY TODD as Tobias's flashback in a mental institution was John Doyle's way of answering a question no one was asking because the answer was already known.

Viv in Take a Chance at 3:00...

Lillian Roth was a gem.

Emma Finch was a klepto.

Lucille Ball was a cunt.

Du Barry was a lady

Wow, between this and the massive pan of DEAR EVAN HANSEN, that Theatre Mania critic is one sour cunt!

He's won my heart COMPLETELY.

[quote] What happens to Tobias after he sees and knows what went on with Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett? Well, it's pretty clearly dramatized by the end of the play. So setting SWEENEY TODD as Tobias's flashback in a mental institution was John Doyle's way of answering a question no one was asking because the answer was already known.

I once had a chance to look at a pre-rehearsal script for Sweeney Todd. If I recall correctly, a lot of the Final Sequence wasn't written yet. One of the things that particularly stood out for me was that Tobias' hair was meant to turn white in front of the audience when he sees the Beadle's body come out of the chute. I wonder if they ever got so far as trying it out in rehearsal or tech?

Vivian Vance on Lucy's 1965 "podcast".

Did we discuss "Broadway Backwards," introduced by that great theater star, Chasten Buttigieg?

Chasten/MAME!

[quote] Does that Annie end with a downbeat reprise of Hard Knock Life?

[quote]Tipped off by a friend in the company that certain liberties were being taken with his baby, “Annie” creator Martin Charnin attended a performance and was not pleased. After a four-hour meeting with Trinity executives, he convinced them that Dehnert’s production was “not true to the spirit of the show,” he says.

A FOUR hour meeting? Charnin has more patience than me. What could be said in FOUR hours? I would have shut them down in 30 seconds.

I saw an early cut of JAMIE. It's eye-rollingly amateurish.. And worse, boring. And yet I would still watch it ten times over before I'd suffer through one frame of DEH.

They are both worse than anal warts. Who the fuck wants to see these afterschool specials?! I’m also looking at you, THE PROM.

I'd rather watch DEH than anything promoting draggy, enby, tranny bullshit.

Thanks for weighing in, Matt.

DEH is DOA.

Norbert Leo Butz *is* Pseudolus in Forum!

[quote] Thanks for weighing in, Matt.

Oh, my sides! You sure got me with that bullseye wit!

How did you know he was talking to you?

had to google the Trinity Rep [italic]Annie[/italic] that r327 and r347 were talking about

Here are some pix

Does Miss Hannigan have a [italic]knife[/italic]?

[quote]Did we discuss "Broadway Backwards," introduced by that great theater star, Chasten Buttigieg?

If he can sing, I actually think Chasten could make a decent Cliff Bradshaw in "Cabaret."

[quote]If he can sing, I actually think Chasten could make a decent Cliff Bradshaw in "Cabaret."

Acting, of course, counts for nothing at all when R358 is casting the leads.

Danger, Will Robinson. Danger!

Frankly, if I have to see another ANNIE, I'd much rather see the Trinity Rep production. It actually looks and sounds rather fascinating and fresh. Charnin was an idiot for stopping it.

I bet the estate would be more tolerant of it now.

[quote] Charnin was an idiot

Fixed that for you.

W&W for R359. You got me (and made me laugh).

[quote]Norbert Leo Butz *is* Pseudolus in Forum!

Over my dead body!

Chasten isn't a Mame, he's a Dolly!

CNBC: “ Dear Evan Hansen' adaptation is 'a total misfire,' 'one of the worst movie-musicals ever made,' critics say”

Ouch!

R365 You might enjoy this thread

Reading that casting directors encourage their followers to "wreak havoc and destroy property/harm people" has given me a whole new view of the industry.

R328, not exactly.

It was performed by military personnel recovering in a hospital from various battle related maladies.

Those were cynical times, and the optimism of R&H was a lot more palatable in that presentation.

The radical thing was that production took the play seriously. At that time, R&H was summer stock and high school material. But Bogart treated the play like a meaningful depiction of military life and Americans encountering "the other." Now everyone treats R&H with respect, but back then it was a novelty. (Which may be why the Hammerstein heirs were more enthusiastic than the Rodgers heirs.)

Rip Taylor was actually very good in Sugar Babies, and, interestingly, had a gorgeous tenor voice.

I saw the Rip Taylor Forum tour (tho had hoped for Joanne Worley, as announced, even as a gayling) and it was torture. Funny as the show may and can be, it’s a very specific kind of comedy and definitely doesn’t work for everyone. Perhaps there’s a reason it hasn’t been revived in 25+ years on Broadway.

R369 Yes, I heard somewhere else that Rip Taylor had a wonderful tenor singing voice. I don't know if he ever featured it on any of his tv appearances.

Wait, was Joanne Worley playing Pseudolus or Domina in that FORUM tour?

I saw the Phil Silvers revival in the 70s when I was in college and didn't find the show particularly funny, even though Silvers was certainly a part of the vaudeville style tradition. Though apparently he was first choice for Pseudolus for the original Broadway production, I didn't and don't think he ever had the needed silliness (for want of a better word) that the role requires.

R372- I was in college too, and I found the entire production was glorious. Silvers was perfect. the cast was great. And it was a free 4th of July performance and we had great seats.

Speaking of Rip Taylor and Joanne Worley I just realized you never saw them at the same place at the same time.

Hmmmmmmm.

I thought the Phil Silvers revival was good enough, but not remotely as sparkling as th original (or the Nathan Lane revival). Also, two distinctly minor Sondheim songs were added in, which was no help.

Fun Fact: the Hero was John Hansen, unusually gymmed up for a jeune premier in the early 70s. No bared torso, but great arms.

Hansen had played the title role in The Christine Jorgenson Story, which adds to the fun.

"didn't find the show particularly funny:

You're so right. It is only the most hilarious and the best, tightest musical comedy book ever written.

"I didn't and don't think he ever had the needed silliness (for want of a better word) that the role requires."

Another insightful gem. "Silliness" has absolutely nothing to do with or have any place in FORUM. It requires a sense of vaudevillian bawdiness, wit, timing, and, like in any comedy, truth.

Was Josh Gad pursued for a Forum revival?

Dear Evan Hansen is one of the worst movie musicals ever made?

Lucille Ball is heaving a sigh of relief tonight, happy to pass that albatross to Ben Platt.

Phil Silvers was one of those 50s comedy icons that never did it for me. Same thing with Sid Caeser to a degree though he was likable.

Silvers was always just loud and conniving. Like a bad cartoon character.

Jackie Gleason was great and even Red Skelton had a certain charm I liked and Berle was...Berle. Loud and obnoxious but he was good at the slow burn.

I think Forum would be a good fit for Beanie. Much more suitable than Funny Girl.

Beanie and Ben can spend the next decade consoling each other and stress eating.

Beanie might be a good Protean.

Ben could play the bust of Domina.

I never really cared for Phil Silvers' Sergeant Bilko con-man shtick, but he's really funny in the wonderful Gina Lollobrigida film "Buona Sera, Mrs. Campbell" playing the husband of Shelley Winters (also delightful), with a really funny Telly Savalas and Lee Grant in it as well.

Anyone watch Come From Away on Apple+?

R385 Just about it. But will miss my Chaddy. he may be a self loathing closeted tart who embraces religion to cover up his self loathing....but, sigh, I love him. And adore his risky choices on stage.

R373, Larry Blyden won a Tony, as did Phil Silvers, for his featured role and was also one of the show's producers.

When Whoopi Goldberg did Forum was she playing it as a man or woman?

did she oggle the woman like Nathan Lane did or did they alter that?

Some violence is more justified than others, OP.

[quote] Beanie might be a good Protean.

She's more of a Carbohydrate.

Beanie is definately a trans fat.

She needs to transition from fat to thin.

The terrible reviews for the Evan Hansen movie and the Impeachment miniseries will hopefully mean that the careers of Beanie and Ben are cooling down. (The inevitable failure of Funny Girl will seal that deal for her).

Beanie can go back to small supporting roles on her proper career trajectory of "Fat Old Character Actress" and years of playing lovable servants and curmudgeonly old spinsters and eccenctric neighbor ladies.

If we still had all the supper clubs and dinner theaters that existed back before the 80s, that would be the ideal career for Ben. Doing Camelot on the Kenley Players circuit and singing standards in smoky supper clubs on the edge of town.

r377 think about 2+ hours of that man leading a show. He's got sidekick written all over him (large). He's a good example of what comes across as a lazier, broader form of comedy that gets tiresome and tiring fast. Say what you will about Nathan and his schtick, it's painstakingly executed, sharp and has nuance and modulation.

Beanie and Ben can play Neely and Mel in the Valley of the Dolls remake.

I'd like to point out to all the posters here who complain about the blandness of certain Broadway performers like Kelli and Sutton and the CCM boys, when a truly unique talent comes along like Beanie and Ben or even Josh Gad, you just shoot them down, too.

Ben Platt is not "a truly unique talent."

He's one in a hundred, or maybe a thousand, at least.

Wait, what?? Ben is an abomination; Beanie's talent is average. If she weren't overweight, she'd hardly be noticed. Marc Platt has much to answer for.

And then there's me.

Klea Blackhurst! YAY!!!

I just had a horrible thought ... Bob Hope in Forum.

Bing as Pseudolus. Bob as Hysterium.

Bob Hope in the 1930s would have been perfect. But later he cleaned up his image and lost all his charm and humor.

BEN EVAN is the new LUCY MAME.

Jane Horrocks as Annie Oakley? Did anyone see this performance? Did Jane play it with a lot of weird tics and weird acting choices? Did she pee on the stage like she did in Macbeth?

[quote] Did she pee on the stage like she did in Macbeth?

Yes, while singing "Doing What Comes Naturally", of course.

Gah! Could there be a more underwhelming Frank Butler than Julian Ovenden?

Horrocks would have had to work very hard to act being bowled over by the dependably bland Ovenden. And if she's not bowled over by him... there is no play. Great music. But no play.

To keep the thread going, here is a YouTube link featuring Forum AND Julian Ovenden.

Truly disgusting, as is to be expected when Simon Russel (2 ls? who cares) Beale is on stage. The man should be paid to stay at home. The very good-natured lechery of this classic curdles into something actually obscene.

On the other hand, I find the widespread DL Julian hate perplexing—though not surprising, given the general hatred here for many if not most performers. (Why I’ve just done it myself!) He seems to me just the sort of handsome (you have to admit), lovely-voiced, unaffected male musical leading man that is in terribly short supply. The closest we have is Stokes, who has never been much of an actor, with runners up like Brent Barrett, Santino Fontana and God save us Rob McClure barely passable if that in whatever they do. Rob McClure as Nestor/Oscar? Please.. Anyway, you guys: give Ovenden a break!

Julian Ovenden must be hung if he agreed to go full frontal on stage.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised, R411. He’s certainly built. Book your tickets now!

Jan isn't as fragile as Dorothy...

Something quite beautiful....

I get John Barrowman and Julian Ovenden mixed up. Which one was the gay slut?

I think there should be an all-male version of A Chorus Line. The concept is that they are auditioning for a gay musical like Naked Boys Singing. Who should play Casper (Cassie) and who should play Shaun (Shelia)? And who wants to fund my production?

On Saturday morning cartoons today...

r388, if you watch those FORUM clips with Whoopi, you'll see that she plays it as a woman. Several lyrics were rewritten to reflect that. As for the female ogling, I seem to remember that she jusst looked at them with awe, not with lust.

[Quote] good-natured lechery

R413, it was, indeed, beautiful. Thank you for posting.

R414, Julian's father works for the Queen.

[quote]Julian's father works for the Queen.

It's nice that Julian employs his father, but I think calling him a queen is a bit harsh.

John Barrowman is the one who's always looking for a nancy.

Neither Ben nor Beanie are unique; they're obsequious. Beanie is the sister of another mediocre, unfunny hack, Jonah Hill. Maybe they could all do a production of The Glass Menagerie in Orlando with Chrissy Metz as Amanda.

They would just keep bumping into the menagerie and breaking it, R423.

[quote]The terrible reviews for the Evan Hansen movie and the Impeachment miniseries will hopefully mean that the careers of Beanie and Ben are cooling down.

Don't forget: We still have the film version of MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG to look forward to in 20 years.

Linklater has a lot to answer to for that [italic]Boyhood[/italic] gimmick.

[quote] Don't forget: We still have the film version of MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG to look forward to in 20 years.

I still can't believe that Sondheim agree to that casting or the 20 year filming stunt.

People won't remember Platt in 20 years. Hell, they won't remember him in ten.

How do you pronounce the first two syllables of Julian's surname--like oven/coven or like woven?

I try not to remember him now.

Has Mr. Ovenden ever put his spin on Harold Hill? Seems like that would be next if he's done Curley, Capt. Von Trapp, Emile De Becque, and now Frank Butler.

Why, he knows he’ll be mercifully dead at that point and not have to see it. I wonder who he’s leaving his estate and future earning to, maybe Stagedoor Manor, they always seem to be kissing his ass?

Sondheim? He got paid. The producers are the ones with money on the line. Clearly they are bigger optimists than me.

[quote] I still can't believe that Sondheim agree to that casting or the 20 year filming stunt.

Maybe this will shut him the fuck up about Roz Russell's shoes once and for all.

That was Arthur... Somebody.

He says his name around the 0:20 mark.

R423, I think you meant to say not "obsequious" but "ubiquitous."

Your point is that these two keep turning up, not that they're servile.

This is the problem with using that Boyhood gimmick with Merrily. What if there's a scandal with one of the actors and they fall out of the public eye? What if one of them dies or retires from the business before it can be finished?

Ovenden is cute with a nice voice, but he's never been very charismatic or interesting.

Em...

[quote] This is the problem with using that Boyhood gimmick with Merrily. What if there's a scandal with one of the actors and they fall out of the public eye? What if one of them dies or retires from the business before it can be finished?

I can't believe there was much of a bidding war for the movie rights to this one.

Besies the technical problems R438 outlines, the concept itself is coy and precious,

[quote]Besies

Oh, dear!

They should shoot the whole movie in one go to have "insurance." If someone dies, they have footage that they can use - with suitable CGI aging or whatever applied to it.

They should film the roles with multiple actors in each role and then edit together the best performances from who was able to finish and is available for promoting the final product.

They should just film [italic]Follies[/italic] instead.

Think of the money they could make selling re-edits to Sondheimites.

There’s a reason Ovenden played the also-ran to Lady Mary’s affections in Downton Abbey. He’s just a nice looking yawnsville kind of guy.

R393, you also forgot the term “cat lady” as one of Beanie’s potential roles. Would a musicalization of Sandy Dennis’ life be feasible?

[quote]This is the problem with using that Boyhood gimmick with Merrily. What if there's a scandal with one of the actors and they fall out of the public eye? What if one of them dies or retires from the business before it can be finished?

I guess this gives Beanie an excuse not to lose weight over the next 20 years.

I could see Beanie in a musicalization of Miriam Margoyles’ life or as a young Chrissy Metz.

WHET that FOLLIES vid using the mash-up of actress film clips? It was so wonderful and it just disappeared.

I do not want to see Beanie a catsuit.

It’s a sad state of affairs in London if Ovenden is what passes for a classic musical theatre leading man. He’s short, boring and has the personality of a glue stick.

Meow!

London? New York has employed Ovenden. And Hollywood.

Blake Jenner, the third wheel in the MERRILY movie triangle, is going nowhere fast. His career peaked back in the final seasons of GLEE back in 2015. He's better known for beating up his ex-GF.

And Richard Linklater is spectacularly unqualified to be directing a Sondheim musical. He's an overrated indie hack (who even killed the TV version of SCHOOL OF ROCK).

Can a movie bomb before it finishes shooting?

Blake Jenner looks like a Bee Gee.

[quote]Blake Jenner, the third wheel in the MERRILY movie triangle, is going nowhere fast. His career peaked back in the final seasons of GLEE back in 2015. He's better known for beating up his ex-GF.

Another reason that show helped kill popular music.

Blake Jennet beat his wife.

They should have just filmed the original production of Merrily and released it like Top Banana.

Now that DEAR EVAN HANSEN has been released, it's clear that Ben Platt can be believable as a 50 year old man, so why can't they just shoot it all now?

Wouldn't the other students think that Platt is a 40 year old teacher?

Has Ben Platt has some sort of eye job?

I can't imagine Ovenden in SOUTH PACIFIC but he was perfect casting for the first version of FINDING NEVERLAND.

I like Julian Ovenden but he's just too much of the boy juvenile for roles like Frank Butler and Emile de Becque.

Though maybe he should star as Billy opposite Sutton Foster in Anything Goes as his callowness would make her seem more of a hardened broad.

R456, In some circles, Blake Jenner is best known for his huge cock.

R393 It's possible that Beanie could play some previews, and the producers could decide she's not working out with her smallish/little girl voice (as far as I can see based on videos on-line). If they hire someone fairly unknown as her cover or understudy like Christina Bianco (who had a big success as Fanny Brice in a recent Paris production) who has a fabulous voice and great comedic talent, they'd have a real-life star is born scenario which could very well sell tons of tickets. (Do lots of theater The Powers That Be/Producers read DL?)

That was a prosthetic, dear.

R393 I could see Ben in "Camelot" -- not sure who you mean, but he'd be fine as Mordred and cast appropriately.

No, they wouldn't. They didn't have it with Lisa Shane in London. They won't have it with Christina Bianco. Or Leslie Kritzer. Or Molly Pope.

At best you can hope for a Harry Potter to Jonas Brother to Glee Co-Star trajectory. That's where it's at with casting.

R448 Regarding Sandy Dennis, I just watched the film version of "Any Wednesday" in which she won her second consecutive Tony on Broadway (1st was supporting for "A Thousand Clowns"). Jane Fonda did the film of "Any Wednesday", and while she's very pretty, I think her acting really isn't that good for most of the film, especially when she's crying at certain points. I could see how Sandy Dennis (and also Barbara Cook who replaced her on Broadway) actually would have been excellent in the role, a conflicted girl who's pursued by a famous married guy (Jason Robards) for a over a year, who buys an apartment for her to live in so he can fuck her on Wednesday, basically, and she falls in love with him, with complications.

DL fave from "Company" Dean Jones plays a business associate of Robards who is sent to the apartment by mistake by a secretary. A big plus: Jones' hairy chest is on display a number of times and it is exquisite. He's very good too, as are Robards and Rosemary Murphy, repeated her Broadway role as Robards' wife. The show on Broadway had Don Porter (Gidget's Dad) and Gene Hackman as Robards and Jones' characters, respectively. I thought it was pretty funny, and amusing on the whole, if you overlook Fonda's acting. She got a lot of camera experience at that time and is much better in the really wonderful "Sunday in New York" and "Barefoot in the Park".

Julian Ovenden was off-Broadway in that musical version of "Death Takes a Holiday". I thought he had a very good vocal instrument, but he was pushing his voice like crazy during previews. Lo and behold, he was out of the production a week or so later for the entire run, replaced by his understudy. Hopefully he got a good voice teacher to help him through 8x a week runs afterwards. Good-looking guy, looked nice without his shirt in one scene. Wouldn't mind seeing him naked as in "My Night With Reg".

Sandy Dennis wasn't fat, btw. She had mannerisms, but that was also star quality and acting ability, and she started off as kind of adorable too and kind of pretty. She was only like 52 or 53 when she died, sadly.

Eric Roberts is really quite strange looking.

She looked much older than early fifties. Did she drink and drug a lot?

Maybe Fonda had a better director for "Sunday in New York, as I see she did that film before she did "Any Wednesday", because she's much better in that than she is in "Any Wednesday". It's also a much better play and film, one of the best sex comedies of the time in its writing and in its film adaptation.

I like 60s sex comedies for their innocence and they make NY look so shiny and bright like a toy for young adults. But I was very disappointed in Any Wednesday and I couldn't understand why it was such a huge hit on Broadway. The script wasn't funny. Much like the film of Mary Mary which is deadly. Maybe they need new productions like the wonderful Boeing Boeing which I enjoyed immensely.

"Mary, Mary" as a film was a slog to sit through a few weeks ago, and I think it's both because Debbie Reynolds couldn't play sophisticated comedy and also the script itself wasn't that funny. "Any Wednesday" perked up a bit when the secretary not on-stage in the play but in the film (Ann Prentice, sister to Paula, who I think went to jail for murdering someone) sends by accident both Dean Jones' and Rosemary Murphy's characters to the mistress' apartment. It was kind of amusing but not that funny. Maybe in a unit set on stage with Dennis and company it was funny, as it ran 3 years. "Mary, Mary" probably was a little risque and played well with Barbara Bel Geddes and cast. Barry Nelson was fine in the film, but playing opposite Debbie Reynolds, who is good in what she ordinarily did, was called upon to have a pretty bad scene partner for the duration of an entire film.

"Sunday in New York" is all about sex, and Rod Taylor especially is pretty adorable, charming, sexy and really good in the acting department. Cliff Robertson, Robert Culp and Jo Morrow are all great too, and Jane Fonda is quite charming and believable too. It's also very funny. Even though it's dated, and most folks don't blink an eye at premarital sex, the writing and playing of it are still enjoyable. Those Doris Day-Rock Hudson-Tony Randall comedies are like that too.

Ann Prentiss, that is

The excerpt of Tin Roof with Bel Geddes is not good.

Julian just before his vocal crisis:

I've always found his singing very mannered.

Does Alexander Armstrong sing well? He's quite cute and a contemporary of Ovenden's.

Come From Away has the camera onstage mostly, right in the action. The camera also never stops moving, it is relentless, Is OK.

That's the most animated I've ever seen Ovenden. He should try it more often.

Ann Prentiss put out a hit on Richard Benjamin?!!!

Yes, r450! Chrissy Metz as Phyllis and Beanie as Young Phyllis.

Chrissy can play Lucy AND Jessie.

Dean Jones was a really underrated performer who had an odd career. He could do comedy, drama, and musicals, but he got stuck in Disney crap, and then became an uber-Christian.

and he had a great hairy chest!

oops, here's his chest

That's no kind of chest.

R481, There's a bootleg recording in circulation of Julian beginning a performance but having to be replaced after two songs by his understudy who received an extended ovation at the curtain call.

Has the understudy become a star?

R493, His name was Kevin Earley.

Is he from the other side of the pond as well?

Sondheim called Jones a diva. If he had stayed in Company it might have turned into a sold out hit.

Dean Jones never rose up above Disney film star.

If Dean Jones had more in him than working for Disney, then leading the original production of COMPANY on Broadway was the key to opening all those opportunities. But, it seems clear, that Dean Jones didn't have more in him. In terms of professional success, he peaked with THE LOVE BUG.

Somewhere in the Great Beyond, he and Madeline Kahn are doing 8 a week of "I Do! I Do!"

Madeline did have a Tony Award for "The Sisters Rosenzweig" so I think she's teamed up with younger in heaven Robert Preston.

[quote]If you watch those FORUM clips with Whoopi, you'll see that she plays it as a woman. Several lyrics were rewritten to reflect that. As for the female ogling, I seem to remember that she jusst looked at them with awe, not with lust.

I saw the show with Whoopi, but I don't remember all the details. If indeed they cut out the stuff about Pseudolus lusting after the courtesans and wanting to get with Gymnasia, then then they would have had to rewrite some of the lines. And if they did rewrite some lines and lyrics for Whoopi, to me that's a no-no, even if Sondheim approved it.

Kevin Earley is American. I saw him in a few musicals locally here in LA many years ago.

The courtesans in FORUM are all extremely theatrical. There are a million ways a comic actor can react to them. None of them have to copy Zero Mostel. Whoopi was in awe of one, disgusted with the next, in shock when Hero didn't respond to another. And so forth.

The courtesans are there for Hero, not for Pseudolus. As long as it is funny, it does not matter to the scene how Pseudolus reactions to the courtesans.

The Love Bug I believe was the biggest hit of '69 which means adults also went to it. And he did Company the following year. Even my father who hated musicals only went to see Company because my mother dragged him along and he enjoyed it.

I should amend that. He hated Broadway musicals but he enjoyed the early Warner Bros musicals.

[quote]The courtesans in FORUM are all extremely theatrical. There are a million ways a comic actor can react to them. None of them have to copy Zero Mostel. Whoopi was in awe of one, disgusted with the next, in shock when Hero didn't respond to another. And so forth. The courtesans are there for Hero, not for Pseudolus. As long as it is funny, it does not matter to the scene how Pseudolus reactions to the courtesans.

It matters because, as written, FORUM presents Pseudolus lusting after Gymnasia as an example of an age-old comedy trope, and if that's cut out of the show, it's missing something. P.S., I'm pretty sure the original script specifies that Pseudolus ends up with Gymnasia at the finale. In fact, I think that's the last comic bit in the show, as everyone finishes singing the finale reprise of "Comedy Tonight."

Kevin Earley has a beautiful voice, as can be heard on the DEATH TAKES A HOLIDAY cast album. In the theater, he sang well and was fine acting-wise but should have kept his shirt on. (He was terrific in a slightly revised BRIGADOON that played Chicago's Goodman Theater a few years ago.)

Can it be that no one has actually read the article that R425 posted? Ben Platt piles irony upon irony as he discusses MERRILY's onstage flaw:

"“Not many people outside of the theatre community are familiar with Merrily Roll Along, and I think don’t understand what a brilliant marriage of concept to material it is, because it’s an incredibly brilliant piece of theatre but the flaw has always been believing these people at certain ages,” Platt tells RadioTimes.com.

“You have actors playing a bit too young by the end of the show, or you have actors playing a bit too old at the top of the show, and so [in the movie version] to get to really watch a friendship fall apart backwards in real time, and watch these older jaded adults grow back into young naive college students will be really emotionally powerful.”

[quote] Eric Roberts is really quite strange looking.

He had a car accident around that time that really fucked up his face and he had to get extensive reconstructive surgery.

[quote] Dean Jones never rose up above Disney film star.

Larry Kert couldn't even rise to that!

Well, Larry did rise to Prince.

Ben Platt is clearly a person of principle.

Filming MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG over a period of years is completely unnecessary and not worth the trouble because there is a span of only 20 yeas between the chronological beginning and ending of the story, with the characters aging from around 20 years of age to around 40. Given modern techniques of makeup and CGI, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't make the film all at once with actors in their early or mid-20s and very credibly age them through either of those processes, or a combination of both. It's a completely different situation from BOYHOOD, where the central character started as pre-adolescent and aged into his early twenties (I don't remember exactly).

"Come From Away" (Apple TV+) trailer.

Larry Kert at least could sing and dance for himself 8x a week when he was in a show. And he started as a stunt man too, so he could really move.

I really enjoyed Come From Away. I thought it was miles better than Dear Evan Hansen, and I'm so glad Chris Ashley won the Tony for directing that year. He did a fantastic job and really elevated the already good material. My only complaint- Caesar Samayoa's eyebrows were tweezed to death. I don't know him. Is he a drag queen?

Tweezed eyebrows are an ethnic thing as well.

Was Dean Jones' name ever really the selling point in COMPANY's success? I wouldn't have thought his fanbase would care for the show and I suspect Broadway audiences weren't fans or even familiar with him as TV or screen actor.

I ibet we can trust Sondheim's opinion of him.

[quote] Tweezed eyebrows are an ethnic thing as well.

On men?

[quote]Was Dean Jones' name ever really the selling point in COMPANY's success?

Dean Jones' name appears first over all the other cast members on the show's window card.

Dean Jones' name is in a larger type face than anyone else's, including Prince and Sondheim.

Someone certainly seems to have thought Dean Jones' name was a selling point.

Broadway audiences would certainly have heard of Jones. He had TV and his film work. He wasn't an A lister but his Disney films were very popular and he was strikingly handsome. It would be like people during the 60s not knowing who Hayley Mills was.

[Quote] On men?

Yes, some Hispanics, Latinos etc.

Hayley Mills was a much bigger star than Dean Jones.

Yes, parents took their kids to those Disney movies and sat through them. Dean Jones was good in them, attractive to see, and he had pretty leading ladies like Suzanne Pleshette, Hayley Mills, and Michelle Lee. Most of them worked on some level for adults as well. I love "That Darn Cat".

[quote]Hayley Mills was a much bigger star than Dean Jones.

Entirely your subjective assessment. And possibly not even true.

But it's subjective, n'est-ce pas?

R469 Ben is more of a Nimue.

Uh no, just no.

In 1969/70, what with all that was going on in the world of show biz and culture, Dean Jones was NOT a hot commodity on Broadway or in Hollywood (beyond Disneyland). Quite the opposite. And it's really only in retrospect and with the help of the Pennebaker doc that Jones is justifiably appreciated for what he brought to the role of Bobby. Not that he didn't get good reviews, but he was hardly missed when he left the production, tears were not shed by audiences and fans of Broadway musicals.

He got great billing because he's the leading man with a familiar name. When COMPANY was produced, Prince and even Sondheim were not yet the kind of names that would particularly sell a Broadway musical to the public.

You went to see Pollyanna or Parent Trap because of Hayley, r523. The Love Bug wasn't a huge hit due to Dean Jones.

All jokes about Dean Jones aside, I still think he delivered those songs better than anyone. I didn't get to see him onstage in the original, but he just is singing with everything he's got in the Pennebaker cast recording documentary. and then did the same in the 1994 reunion concert. (Sondheim said recently that the best "Being Alive" Jones ever did is on the recording, "because he was trying so hard, and he didn’t have confidence in his voice. And you can watch it. There’s a close-up of him, and he’s practically sweating the notes out.") I've seen the show several times now, with Bobbys of varying quality, and there's just this wounded and wondering edge to Jones that I haven't seen equalled.

Hayley Mills probably peaked in 1966 with "The Trouble With Angels." She was 20.

Dean Jones was still doing starring roles in films up to COMPANY and after.

Both found their biggest success with Disney. But there's really no winning argument that Mills was a much bigger star than Jones, especially not by 1970. THE LOVE BUG was the 2nd highest grossing film in America in 1969. COMPANY was 1970. The extraordinary financial success of THE LOVE BUG is plenty more than enough to make Jones the bigger star and guarantee him the bigger billing.

Nice to see the TG threads following an old DL tradition.

Dean Jones and Julian Ovenden are both total AWGs that inexplicably have a few of you working your panties into a lather.

To each his own

r528 is the reason the word bullshit was invented.

Let me be clear, at their heights of fame, Hayley was the bigger star.

Well! We have all been told.

But no one was billed above the title in Company?

R528, How many went to see "The Love Bug" because of me?

Wasn't the Company cast album reissued when Larry Kert replaced Dean Jones?

I believe the album was reissued as the original West End cast with Larry Kert mixed in. (But you can still hear Jones under Kert's voice.)

Larry Kert comes off as a pompous ass on this 1972 Tonight Show appearance.

meh, I liked Julian in Sunday in the Park with George.

A Bill Sampson for the ages...

Julian's "Being Alive" kicked ass.

One hundred easy ways...with flavah!

Oh, Brother!

(It was filmed during the DC tryout, so "A Loud and Funny Sung" is not in yet, unfortunately).

Looking back, I wish either Broadway or the West End would have found a decent vehicle for Hayley Mills circa 1968.

R471, I remember reading a very enjoyable book about the goings on behind the scenes of Any Wednesday’s journey to Broadway. Michael Rennie was replaced by Don Porter in Boston (or was it New Haven)?

[quote]It’s a sad state of affairs in London if Ovenden is what passes for a classic musical theatre leading man. He’s short, boring and has the personality of a glue stick.

I saw him (twice) appearing opposite Ruthie Henshall in the Alain Boublil, Claude-Michel Schönberg musical Marguerite. He was sex-on-a-stick gorgeous and a terrific actor as well. The semi-nude scene helped too.

Now, he's 44 years old, and those roles he's playing, like Emile de Becque, are totally appropriate for him.

He is super hot. Nathan Lane was one lucky man.

Julian Ovenden singing 'Anthem' from Chess on 'Tim Rice- A Life In Song'

R547, He was practically drowned out by the orchestra. Great closeup shots of inside his mouth.

Sir Ian does Dame Maggie...

Hayley Mills in The King and I was a low point in three decades of theatre going. It was only eclipsed by Lun Tha cracking on his first note in We Kiss in a Shadow.

That was an "amazing" impersonation of Maggie Smith by Sir Ian?

Hardly, r551, but it was rather fun.

Actually, Hayley Mills had a good leading role (though not a vehicle per se) in the 1970s in Trelawny, Julian Slade's musical version of Trelawny Of the Wells.

She opened it in Bristol (I think), but when it came to London Gemma Craven was playing the lead instead.

So.... COME FROM AWAY, recorded on Bway before a live audience, is streaming on Apple TV. Seems like they good a job capturing it on video, but....

Any diehard CFA fans here? Can you tell us if there's an entire dimension of the show that they failed to capture?

Because I found it.. underwhelming. Self-congratulatory. And trivializing of actual human tragedy.

R554, I haven't seen the video version, but your impression aligns with mine after seeing it on Broadway. Also, it's fundamentally conflict-free. Feh.

Did Lonny Price direct it for TV?

Christopher Ashley directed it for TV. Apparently, there was a feature film scheduled, but they did this instead.

I was just surprised how such a well-received, popular show had such a mundane score and book. It was simplistic and sentimental and smug.

And I liked Jenn Collela, but none of the rest of the cast was a standout.

I wouldn't say it was entirely conflict free. The conflict is how are they going to feed and house and care for all these people in this small town. The conflict is- when are these people going to get home to their loved ones. When is the older black woman going to find out if her son is alive or dead? When are the shy couple going to figure out their feelings for one another? Sure, not every character had conflict, but that's not really what the show was about. It was about how these different sets of people came together on one of the worst tragedies ever in order to help take care of each other.

This is one of the rare shows that doesn't need a lot of conflict written into the story because the "conflict" is almost completely woven into the inciting incident.

I saw Dean Jones in “Company,” twice. First time was when it was trying out in Boston. First act was great, pretty much as it was when I saw it again. But the second act slogged, particularly during Elaine Stritch’s scene. At one point, she’s smoking, and declares everyone should smoke, and orders the waiters to bring 10 cartons of cigarettes to everyone around her. Which they proceed to do, literally. Which took forever. Then she went up on “Ladies Who Lunch, and the conductor was actually prompting her with the lyrics. By this point, audience members around me were getting up and leaving. The pace was gone.

But this wasn’t all. Though the final song was listed as “Married Alive,” Jones didn’t sing it. What did happen was that his friends stood in a circle, wondering why he hasn’t shown up, and who should appear center stage, but Jones, standing next to this beautiful blonde with cornsilk hair, wearing a sheepskin jacket. So he says, “Isn’t it great up here at the top of the Empire State Building at midnight!” And she agrees, with the implication that he’s finally found The One. Curtain.

Curiously, I caught a matinee of the show a couple of weeks later in New York. Cigarettes and blonde were gone. Act 2 was tight. Stritch was great. And Jones broke your heart with “Being Alive.” The man was just so vulnerable and sweet. No wonder his friends wanted him to be happy. Because you felt all along that this lovable and sexy man somehow wouldn’t find anyone. And you so wanted him to.

There are people who, for whatever reason, just never find anyone. There is a real sadness at the heart of “Company,” because it acknowledges this fear, yet avers that maybe just being available to love is enough, whatever the outcome.

Jones presented that perfectly, maybe not because of his performance, but because of who he was. I’m not surprised he couldn’t handle it.

I’ve never wanted to see it with anyone else, and never have.

Did you find someone?

[R560]:

That, as they say, is another story.

Not really about Hayley Mills, but it's always surprised me that Disney has never turned POLLYANNA into a stage musical. I'd much rather see that all of those insipid princess cartoons on stage.

But then I loved NEWSIES far more than any other Disney show.

I think it might play into your take on the show.

Julian Ovenden is an extremely nice guy with an extremely big dick.

On the original Company poster, I get why Dean Jones' name was in larger type and I get why Elaine Stritch's name was in large type and had special placement, but why was Barbara Barrie's name in larger type? Her career at that point had been a bunch of single episode performances on tv shows and she didn't have any featured music like Stritch, or Amy's "Not Getting Married" or Marta's "Another Hundred People".

Isn't Barrie an Oscar nominee?

Yes, Breaking Away.

[quote]He is super hot. Nathan Lane was one lucky man.

I don't know anything about Julian Ovenden other than what I've read about him on DL, so I just checked his Wiki page, which says he's married and has kids. But he was also involved with Nathan Lane? Or was that just DL gossip?

Barrie had 5 or 6 years before won I believe an award at Cannes Film Festival for Best Actress for the very good film about interracial marriage "One Potato, Two Potato", so she had some actors cred. I saw it recently on TCM.

566 She wasn't at the time, but she did win Best Actress at the Cannes Film Festival in 1964 and had just played Viola in Twelfth Night at the Delacorte. Also her scene with Charles Kimbrough was very funny and landed strongly. Or maybe she just had a really good agent.

[quote] I don't know anything about Julian Ovenden other than what I've read about him on DL, so I just checked his Wiki page, which says he's married and has kids. But he was also involved with Nathan Lane? Or was that just DL gossip?

No, Ovenden played Lane's much younger lover in the revival of Butley. I believe they kissed in the show.

Was Nathan respectful?

I saw Ovenden play a slimy court minister to King Philip IV of France in “Knightfall,” about the fall of the Knights Templar. I had seen “Death Takes a Holiday,” though without Ovenden, and after seeing his his smarmy “Knightfall” character, I couldn’t believe him in that romantic fantasy musical.

There is a private video of Ovenden in “Death,” literally going still on stage during a performance, then leaving, to be replaced by Early.

Ahhh, okay. Thank you, R571.

[quote]Because you felt all along that this lovable and sexy man somehow wouldn’t find anyone.

BECAUSE HE WAS GAY.

And when Dean Jones discovered that, he bolted from that show like Jeremy Piven and his mercury poisoning did from Speed The Plow.

What was Hugh O'Brian's story?

[R575]: BECAUSE HECWAS GAY.

I think you need to produce verificatia.

Has Chad Kimball ever played Bobby?

I think one of the main reasons people loved Dean Jones in Company was that there was nothing remotely gay about him.

And you could believe he really was loved and cared for by all of those couples. That aspect is usually ignored in most revivals. The Marianne Elliott production coming to Broadway particularly fails in that you can't believe Bobbi would have anything to do with any of those couples (well, except for the gay couple).

Did Hugh O'Brian ever play Bobby? He would have looked so hot shirtless in the bedroom scene.

Has Julian ever played Billy Bigelow? It seems like that would complete his Rodgers & Hammerstein major leading men dance card. (Obviously "The King & I" and "Flower Drum Song" are not appropriate.)

I like Raul Esparza in the John Doyle version--he was pretty much the only aspect of the show I liked.

But Raul didn't play up Bobby's likeability or cuteness, and it made no sense that smart, savvy Bobby would hang out with this crowd of dull, married, uncharismatic losers. All of whom played instruments about as well as they sang, danced, and acted.

Which is to say, just barely.

I don't know why, r581. I think he'd deliver quite a zesty Grant Avenue.

The Trinity Rep production of ANNIE was a disaster. The director said "It's not about a little girl. It's about the Depression". Big Mistake. Martin Charnin gave the theatre a list of 70 changes that had to be gotten rid of before they could officially open. The cast rehearsed the original ANNIE in the daytime while performing the directors revised version at night.

And let's see a revival of NEW GIRL IN TOWN ! Sutton Foster, anyone?

R573, Please say hello to R492.

NOBODY went to see The Love Bug to see Helen Hayes because she wasn't in it. THAT was Buddy Hackett.

This probably doesn't count, but there was a musical version of Pollyanna for TV in 1989. It was "Polly," staring Keshia Knight Pulliam, with Phylicia Rashad in the Jane Wyman role and Celeste Holm in the Agnes Moorehead role. Moving the story up from the 1910s to the 1950s, it was directed and choreographed by Debbie Allen. Not only that, but it got a sequel.

FROZEN opens on the West End, in a revised version of the Bway stage show. Starring Samantha "PRETTY WOMAN" Barks.

Here's hoping it's not as much of a bust as the Bway stage show.

BAT OUT OF HELL!

How does *their* dress work?

Not going to lie, I'm still amazed that neither Frozen nor Mean Girls went the distance on Broadway. Amazed in a glad way.

Yes, you'd have thought FROZEN (for certain) and MEAN GIRLS (probably) were money in the bank on Bway.

I'm not sorry to see mediocrity met with mediocre box office. Disney in particular could have/should have made FROZEN another LION KING.

[quote]Also, it's fundamentally conflict-free.

They're Canadians. What did you expect?

FIRST MIDNIGHT!

This was/is quite good. Nicely done.

[quote]I wouldn't say it was entirely conflict free. The conflict is how are they going to feed and house and care for all these people in this small town. The conflict is- when are these people going to get home to their loved ones. When is the older black woman going to find out if her son is alive or dead? When are the shy couple going to figure out their feelings for one another? Sure, not every character had conflict, but that's not really what the show was about. It was about how these different sets of people came together on one of the worst tragedies ever in order to help take care of each other. This is one of the rare shows that doesn't need a lot of conflict written into the story because the "conflict" is almost completely woven into the inciting incident.

Exactly. Of course the show is not "conflict free" by any remote stretch of that phrase, and you recognize this because you are not a soulless idiot like R554 and R555.

And another TG draws to a close, not with a bang, but with a sad whimper of cuntitude from 596...

You never mention FOLLIES here....

new thread, bitches

Another poorly constructed thread awaits us at #437

Bajour, baby!

And all that jazz!!!