Are you still upset about 9/11?

I only get upset every 9/11, however, the anger passes QUICKLY.

To this date, watching those Twin Towers fall was one of the most surreal things ever to happen on live television.

R1, don’t you think if this were planned, the government wouldn’t have been caught so flat footed?

Yes, always will be. I was a teenager in DC at the time and I thought it was going to be the end for us. I’m not sure how, but the rumor about the plane headed toward the Capitol spread throughout my school before the Shanksville plane crashed.

I'm still mad about Pearl Harbor.

This is fucked

I'm still upset about Hastings.

This is stupid, but I have a flight scheduled on 9/11 this year and I feel a bit nervous about it. I’ve not flown on 9/11 since at least 2000.

Exactly, R4.

United 93 really drove home the point of how nobody knew what the fuck was going on that morning.

EVERYONE was caught off-guard, and there was no communication whatsoever, between agencies.

The military didn't know what to do because only the President could make the big decisions (like shooting down hijacked planes). And the President was nowhere to be found.

The FAA and flight control people wanted answers from the military, but the military had no answers.

It was complete chaos. Mainly because the event was unprecedented in almost every way.

R9, I flew to Singapore on the first anniversary of 9/11 and was’t worried at all. I knew every security person would be in high alert. I think I was one of about three people in Business class on all three flights it took to get there; it was really comfortable.

I was on the plane to Greece on 9/11 while it happened, it was odd and disturbing as I very rarely travel by plane. I remember how much I was looking forward to going on holiday and couldn't wait for 11th September to arrive. It felt like some sort of cosmic joke was being played on me.

I wonder how Lisa Beamer's "Let's Roll" cinnamon roll company is doing?

I've been watching National Geographic's, 911: One Day In America. It's four parts and tells of the experiences of people who went through that terrible day... firefighters, police and survivors. My emotions were re-surfaced, like I had seen this happen for the first time. Showing the people on the ground, their reactions and sheer terror, running and screaming for their lives, showing the planes flying into the towers...then collapsing, really stirred up my anger and emotions. No one really knew how to handle this. The fires were so far up in the buildings and the elevators weren't working. It was something that no one would imagine and be prepared. God Bless (and I'm not religious) the brave souls who went up to save people, stayed in the buildings under great danger and devastation....and going through the red hot, burning ruins of the fallen towers, to search for survivors.

I agree, r14. I cannot even imagine what guts it took for those rescue personnel to climb up those towers.

I am.

I still can't believe this happened to this day.

Me too.

What makes me angry are the luggage fees we still pay to help the airline industry recover from 9/11

What’s odd is how what we see today is censored. No falling people. No one hit by falling bodies, and they were. No lugubrious details, like the person who discovered a pair of severed hands tied together on their terrace, or the man who witnessed an SUV get smashed in front of his car by a flying airplane tire. Or the gay couple who were fleeing on the street, when one of them was struck and killed by falling debris.

So many details were mentioned then, but swept away since.

(And I still believe there’s a lot more to this that no one will ever tell in our lifetimes.)

Twenty years—Afghanistan is now moving to the US.

*later

I'm still angry that Cheney and W got away with it. I'm angry that for what those fucking wars costs we could have ended homelessness, hunger, poverty and had the best medical care for every American. But, still not as angry over all of it as I am about what Trump and the Trump years did to and are doing to this country. At least Cheney and W didn't try to destroy democracy and kill over 600,000 Americans.

[quote] I'm still angry that Cheney and W got away with it.

Got away with what, r23?

[quote] No lugubrious details, like the person who discovered a pair of severed hands tied together on their terrace

What was this all about?

You know what I mean. They got away with planning the entire thing for all the power and multi billions they got. Follow the money. Who profited the most? What did Bin Laden get out of it, spending the rest of his life in hiding?

911: One Day In America is six parts.

On CNN, R27?

It's on the National Geographic Channel R28. It should be on demand now...as the series is over. I think HULU is streaming it also.

The last episode was last night on NG channel.^^

Yes I still am.

Why, what happened on 9/11?

You’re right R10 United 93 really did capture the utter chaos that morning. It was a great movie, although I can’t imagine willingly sitting through it again.

I just don’t get why 9/11 conspiracy theories are so compelling to some people. Isn’t the truth—the complete failure of our intelligence agencies and the malignant incompetence of the Bush administration—bad enough?

What should upset you is because of UAE based attack on the US we funded and fought in two wars over 20 years and spent 5 trillion dollars on a war with people who had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Osama Bin Laden and the attackers were all Saudis.

Yes I am still mad at our government and Israel for doing it.

Settle down r35.

All planned.

I think a lot of warnings were ignored... just let it happen. As an excuse to get into war, Cheney and Rumsfeld were two war mongers. Bush was an idiot.

Of course, the blame goes to the terrorists, but I think this could have been prevented, if someone was really paying attention.

I agree, it could have been prevented.

However, the people on here claiming this was an “inside job” are idiots.

I’m tired of grief porn in general. People die. Some horrifically. The planet is too old and has been (and is) inhabited by billions upon billions of people. This is hardly the tragedy to end all tragedies. Move on.

I'm not as upset as I was, although I never got all paranoid and fear-based screaming for GWB to save us by invading Afghanistan after it happened. That was just weird and stupid. I became more aware of my surroundings out in public spaces in America and that hasn't changed.

I never disliked the Saudis before 9/11. I wouldn't cross the street to piss on the House of Saud if it were on fire after 9/11.

This thread has gotten me to watch United 93…

R33: "I just don’t get why 9/11 conspiracy theories are so compelling to some people. Isn’t the truth—the complete failure of our intelligence agencies and the malignant incompetence of the Bush administration—bad enough? "

Well, if you believe it was "the truth" was it was due to 'complete failure of our intelligence agencies', then I can imagine how easy it is to believe it wasn't a conspiracy.

But then please explain why Building 7 collapsed ALL BY ITSELF, HOURS after the Twin Towers.

Oh no, the loons have come out. R44, that’s not a good look for you. Or anyone.

Obviously because he collapse of the two, much larger, buildings nearby destabilized "Building 7" it's not hard to figure out, r44, you fucking paranoid loon.

Lots of trolls online tonight. Or maybe one troll? Anyone know what happened to defacto?

Kween^^ move along.

Omg i watched part of that PBS “Generationn 9/11” last night. I guess it sounded like a good idea from an intern at PBS:

“You know…so….my generation? It’s the 9/11 generation because we didn’t like, know, America before 9/11. So….they taught it to us in school? Like…every year on 9/11? ….They had like…a 9/11 ….thing.

So…to like everyone who was born? After 9/11? We’re just like…”hmmm..so …..this happened.” You know? So…maybe a documentary? That’s about how different my generation is with regards to…all the 9/11 shit?”

“Great idea, AlexanderinaX. Maybe we can find some young people…very *diverse* young people…whose parent died on 9/11. And we can see what’s up in their lives. How did it affect them? What did they think about it? Do they miss the parent they never met?”

Much time & money is spent ..only to find and record all of these young people who are blandly upper middle class due to the amounts of money they & their other parent received from the four hundred and seventy two various 9/11 funds. They all have nice homes, trust funds, step parents. And they all have their faces stuck in a screen, since SM and covid have turned them into Generation Zoom, just bobbing through life in a warm, pleasant embryonic atmosphere, trying to make it seem as if being “the 9/11 family” somehow affected them negatively.

R49, I couldn't finish watching it, most of those kids just didn't seem interested at all. I felt any second they were going to pull out their phones and start scrolling. One mother said that a therapist once told her to be honest with her young her kids when they eventually asked her about their father but all these years later, she said that 'they never asked'. Then her daughter piped up " I did ask about that one thing that one time." (paraphrasing but that was the gist of it).

One of the girls was more emotional about missing her graduation because of Covid than she was about the loss of her father. If they did show emotion it was about themselves, and not about the what their father endured in his last moments and what their mother had to deal with in the aftermath. There was no empathy at all.

I'm mad that we let Saudi Arabia get off without even a slap on the wrist. All this fucking talk about the rights of women and children in Afghanistan, and the Taliban harboring terrorists. Ha! Women have no rights in Saudi Arabia, minors get the death penalty for dubious reasons, and the Saudi mastermind and his Saudi minions committed a terrorist attack on the US.

Trump loved those fucking Saudis.

It’s hard to believe that people still believe 9/11 wasn’t planned to help Israel.

Honestly, I never was

That’s hard for me to believe, R53 because gays are so anti-Semitic, R53, so when a gay man talks about Jews, I just roll me eyes.

I'm more angry at the pointless war that followed.

I'm still shocked when I think about how fast it all happened.

The sky was so blue that day.

it just always makes me sad. I know people that escaped from the towers, I have a friend whose son in law died and it completely changed our way of life never to be able to go back.

There is an amazing docudrama called "The Path to 9/11". However, the Clintons have made sure that no one will ever see it again.

That's sickening R49 and R50. A generation of zombies.

Really t60? If the Clinton’s had so much power how were they not able to elect Hillary president (twice)? The FF button is working overtime tonight.

YOU.ARE.A.LOON.

Crap. Oh dear myself at r62. Should be r60.

I cant believe it has been 20 years.

It ruined everything!

I hate the direction this country went in afterward. It had a huge factor in where we are today as a culture.

R65 It did. It ruined everything.

No. I thought Katrina was much worse.

Instead of anger, we should focus on the good of humanity that came through that day. Many individuals died as heroes and should be recognized as role models instead of dumbfuck social influencers. Like Welles Crowther, who saved over 10 people in one of the towers. I dare anyone to watch this short video about him and not be affected by it.

I don't believe a word of the official story. No sooner had Bush gotten into office than they just couldn't wait to make this happen.

I believe in remote-controlled planes; kidnapped and murdered passengers; bombs; explosives; altered video...

R70 = GQP nutjob.

They’re not the “Let’s Roll” cinnamon rolls, but oh well.

Yes R34. That is the truth of the matter.

R72 is like the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

So many questions still.

First, how could two hijackers who had never actually flown a commercial jet before -- just a few hours in a simulator -- both manage identical sharp turns off the Hudson right into the very sweet spot of the WTC.

Ditto the hijacker who made a perfect landing right at the foot of the Pentagon.

Do we have pilots here? Is flying a jet that easy?

All that burning flesh is making me THIRSTY!

R75, I am not a conspirist, but I find it completely ludicrous that someone with no flight experience could fly a huge jet hugging the ground by a mere few feet and fly straight into the second or third floor of a building without even a hint of a downward angle. I think it was a missile.

Lots of inexplicable disintegration. The towers AND the plane in PA.

The oral history book The Only Plane in the Sky is excellent (but graphic). Detailed interviews of all kinds of people, including some of the few who managed to escape from the higher-up floors of the towers.

Conspiracy theorists on this thread, you sound like fucking morons.

Then can we at least talk about how the attack revealed that the towers were built of chalk and Smarties?

R77 And yet so many people would have had to be involved if 9-11 wasn't all that it seemed. After 20 years somebody would have talked.

No matter which way you turn on this you still get questions, more and more questions.

[quote] Ditto the hijacker who made a perfect landing right at the foot of the Pentagon.

I think it's pretty clear the intent was not to plant the bulk of the plane in the ground outside the Pentagon but to hit the Pentagon more squarely and do more damage.

R81 This is the essential point that makes most conspiracy theories implausible, to me. And it becomes crystal clear if you ever spend time in government. If a single person can accomplish something alone, okay, maybe that person can keep a large secret. But with each additional person involved, the chances grow exponentially that the information will come out, and quickly. For the conspiracy theories about 9/11 to be true (controlled explosions, hijackings planned by American government figures with intentional authorities, etc etc) an absolutely huge and diverse group of people with competing interests would ALL have had to keep this secret, in the computer/Internet age, where it would be very easy to pass documents and information out anonymously. Look how much escaped, and how quickly, about the comparatively pedestrian bad behavior by Trump. These 9/11 conspiracy theories are totally crazy.

Obviously no one here played flight simulator games. Once you’re in the air, it’s very easy to fly where you want. And these terrorists didn’t spend a few hours in training, they competed courses. Except they didn’t practice landing which was a red flag.

Many people saw the plane go into the Pentagon. Why the hell would you use a missile when a plane is right there, ready to be hijacked at your convenience?

Conspiracy theories I guess are inevitable—we have a certain amount of our population who are fearful and distrustful and, yes, ignorant. But they’re so wrong it’s not funny anymore.

Nobody trusted Bush and Cheney. They stole the election. And they lied about 9/11, go and read the commission report, it's horseshit. They found hijacker passports on top of the rubble??

R84 As said above they spent a few hours IN SIMULATORS.

Are you a commercial pilot? Is it conceivable that three individuals with their background could do what they apparently did?

I'm hesitant to jump into this thread, but there have been veteran pilots who've said "I sure as hell couldn't have done that, so how do you think they would manage it?"

I'm still upset about the fall of Rome.

I'm sad about 9/11 because in retrospect it was the beginning of the end of us. I feel badly for people who were very young or born after it. They'll never know the America I knew and loved.

I have zero interest in watching 9/11 retrospectives. I lived through it once, and that was fucking more than enough.

Yeah, that 9/11 Nat Geo series was a gut punch. Those bodies crashing onto the roof of the North Tower's lobby...YIKES!

R86, seven were trained to the extent that they got their licenses. It wasn’t a few hours in a simulator, they actually flew planes. Just stop it, we all saw with our own eyes the planes flying into the towers. And we have multiple witnesses who called from the hijacked planes who told us what was going on. And yes, flying a plane is actually very easy—the flight simulator games being an analogy. Once you take off, flying is easy. I’ve played Microsoft’s many times.

I feel I lost brain cells just participating in this ludicrous conversation.

Some good resources here.

The conspiracy theory morons are what are upsetting me most today.

Conspiracy theorists are mentally ill folks who think they're smarter than everyone else. Scum of the earth.

R91 Not one of the hijackers had ever been in the cockpit of a large commercial jet before Not one.

As said it'd be great to hear from a real commercial pilot. Not someone who equates real flying with playing on a PC.

You know, the most annoying thing about conspiracy theorists is they seem to believe the most ludicrous scenarios. The more ludicrous, the better. It’s like they’re begging to be labeled stupid.

R95, really? What do you think a flight simulator is? It’s flying a damn plane! A jet, or an F-15, take your pick. Just stop it. Multiple people were witnesses to what happened. Who gives a shit what a pilot says? Unless they were a witness, it doesn’t matter.

Ayayay, I’m done. You need a mind cleaning. It’s all addled.

I don't believe the conspiracy theories about 9/11 for the most part, because I think it was a conspiracy, but it was wilder than what has been imagined.

No matter what, it didn't happen the way they say it did, and that's what causes the nutty theories.

Yes. They used it to usher in a surveillance state. They didn't have to try, they just had to release the iPhone.

"And yet so many people would have had to be involved if 9-11 wasn't all that it seemed."

Dick Cheney, George W. Bush (and his brother), Donald Rumsfeld. Not many more, a handful of loyal operatives... And remember, they did it all for Haliburton and Blackwater, lots of expertise there.

Have the Capitol insurrectionists tattled on each other?

What R18 said. Regardless of the conspiracy theories out there, they did lie about how it went down.

R100 Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld were anything but hands-on guys. They could have an idea perhaps but planning and executing were beyond them. No, they'd need tons of help.

Actually r100, many have tattled. As have those who tattled on them because they couldn’t keep their mouth shut or their camera off.

It was a beyond terrible and horrible day, that most of us can't comprehend the magnitude of the attacks. There will always be questions...and no answers...so some people let their imaginations take over. We're always searching for answers...even if some are crazy.

I find it incredibly coincidental that both US based Air Force planes and NORAD was conducting their first ever stand-down no-fly procedure in the USA that week. That is why no planes were able to intercept either planes that morning. If that doesn't stink to high heaven, nothing does.

R97 You fly commercial jets for a living, do you? If not, your assurance that if you can fly a simulator you can successfully step into a commercial jet and fly it solo is just hot air.

R106, I am absolutely positive I can. I won’t be able to take off or land, but fly? Yes. Btw you know that flight simulators actually simulate real cockpits, right?

&and they’re used to train actual commercial jet pilots.

Not only that, R105, but those exercises were switched to that day, when before and since they were always done nowhere near that date.

R106 also remember that fire can't melt steel, right?

I have said this before but I remember in either late 2000 or early 2001 there were rumors going around my Northeast college town that a big attack was coming. Another DL poster who worked across from WTC summer 2001 mentioned a lot of weird activity going on in that area that year. My point is, maybe it isnt a conspiracy so much as there was intel it was going to happen and our government let it happen

Agree ^^

If you read the 9/11 Commission Report, it makes clear there were a number of blunders and missed opportunities to recognize that foreign intelligence was hinting at an attack. That (government officers asleep at the wheel or distracted by domestic politics) is pretty much the opposite of the most popular conspiracy theories (scheming government officials who pulled off the most complex conspiracy in history and murdered thousands of civilian Americans).

The former is true, the latter is false. Both certainly can’t be correct.

The discovery that the WTC was built out of pixie sticks encourages the conspiracy theories. Who would have thought that you could turn the whole buildings into dust.

Who would have thought? Physicists and chemists, probably, as well as security experts like Rick Riscorla, who warned against this after the 1993 bombing. But I’m sure lock-ins who watch videos on YouTube know better.

While I don't believe the US government was directly involved with the attacks on 9/11, I do believe they were very aware of specific threats and purposely turned a blind eye to enable them to happen so they can pass the USA Patriot Act and begin never ending wars.

Remember that the Solicitor General of the United States, Ted Olson, who was well-connected to Bush and Cheney both professionally and personally, was married to one of the victims on the plane who crashed into the Pentagon, Barbara Olson. So either he willingly went along with this conspiracy, found out after the fact and chose not to expose it after his wife was murdered as part of it, or somehow the conspiracies managed to keep the U.S. Solicitor General out of the loop before and after?

^ It is likely they didnt know exact dates/targets but knew an attack was coming ^

R111, yes, this is what the 9/11 commission found as well.

Weren't the buildings constructed to withstand a plane crash? Steel columns about every couple of feet?

And a bunch of burning carpet and furniture isn't hot enough to melt steel.

Mohammed Atta's father talked to him on the phone the day after the incident, then he disappeared.

R120 It's not steel melting that's the problem. Steel loses its strength as temperature rises. Structural steel has insulation against this but of course it provides only limited protection.

It's inconceivable that people believe the conspiracy lies. But people also believe Trump was a good choice. My favorite conspiracy is the one that claims the visuals of the planes flying into the buildings are all holograms. That one is reserved for the stupidest people on earth.

R122, exactly. You know, I could almost—ALMOST—understand (not accept) the beliefs that it was a conspiracy of some sort, but geez, there video—lots and lots of it.

Not to mention those of us who saw the smoke coming from a crash site in person. For these conspiracy theorists it’s clearly just some abstract story or game.

[quote] also remember that fire can't melt steel, right?

Do you think steel comes out of the ground in girder shape?

The look on George Bush’s face when he was told of the attack is all you need to see, even without the mountains of proof. He was gobsmacked. And he’s not a good actor.

I with the Twin Towers could be rebuilt, and all the 9/11 conspiracy theorists could be loaded on planes that crash into the towers, so they can see exactly how it all happened.

I am still upset that anyone thought the answer to 9/11 was to spend $8 trillion and that resulted in 900,000 deaths.

[quote] And a bunch of burning carpet and furniture isn't hot enough to melt steel.

R120 you do understand that both of those jets fuel tanks were nearly full of fuel don't you?

Go fuck yourself R98. Fucking moron.

That's why the flights going to CA were chosen...the tanks would have a lot of fuel.

R111 you're a fucking idiot. Dangerously stupid.

[quote] somehow the conspiracies managed to keep the U.S. Solicitor General out of the loop before and after?

Because the Solicitor General is so very in the loop where domestic attacks are concerned.

He may have told her to delay her flight because 9/11 was his birthday, heh heh. Probably had a side piece.

Bygones.

The US planned the Twin Towers destruction. It's not conspiracy theory, it's fact. The US is corrupt as fuck and needed an excuse for war. The US is always looking for a war to start somewhere.

R135 Your lack of functioning brain cells is showing. Show us one credible source for your lunatic "opinion".

No. Should I be? After the WTC went down one of my buildings was the tallest in Manhattan.

R77 again. Would a large jet need a long approach to accomplish this yet I've never read reports of this and never seen CCTV video except the one of a something exploding into a fireball.

R136 you Americans think your fucking country can do no wrong. The US is the most hated country in the world because you fuck up every country you enter, but claim you are the saviours of the world. The bedrock of your entire country is built on narcissism, corruption and greed. The US is like that kid at school who is always taking credit for the ideas and hard work of other kids.

I'm still enraged about the crimes against humanity committed by the George W. Bush administration using 9/11 as a justification, does that count?

r139 We're not perfect,, but we're way way better than whatever fucked up shit hole you're from. We don't drink as much recycled vodka through our mother's tits the way you probably did.

R141 I'm from Australia cunt, and our country is 10 times better than your fucked up country. The US ranks low on many things, and every year your rankings sink lower. The US is fucked. You are war hungry sociopaths and psychopaths who think you rule everything or need to rule everything.

As if Australians care enough to get so angry

If the US is getting worse, it's partly due to Murdoch and the lie factory he uses to destroy humanity and prop up oligarchs and pure shit. He and his sons are pure Aussie.

Australians are total cunts with alcohol and anger issues.

BTW, you stole the country from the Aboriginals and practiced genocide yourselves so you shouldn't act all high and mighty.

Without the US, Australia would've been a part of the Japanese Empire and every white Australian woman would've been a fuckhole for Japanese soldiers so you can STFU.

[quote] Australia would've been a part of the Japanese Empire and every white Australian woman would've been a fuckhole for Japanese soldiers

Sounds hawt!!!!

Why would the US need to plan 9/11 to justify war when it was perfectly willing to lie about evidence to start a war in Iraq just a handful of years later? Lots of idiocy in this thread.

Here's the gay who died. He was 3 1/2 blocks away from the first tower when it collaped. His partner killed himself at a later date.

What about The Miracles of 9/11? Like the guy who rode the cascading debris like a surfboard to safety to the street below? Or the tree that survived the amid the rubble of the twin towers? Or the twisted wreckage that assumed the shape of the Christian Cross? Impossible things are happening every day.

I made the mistake of watching September 11th footage including audio recordings one night on Youtube. I had nightmares for weeks.

The audio recordings are unbearable. I can't listen to them.

I made the mistake of reading the thread here a few weeks ago about the people who were visibly waiting for helicopter rescue in the blown-open sides of the towers. The pictures will haunt you.

There are always stories about how people narrowly missed flights that crashed, but I believe one of the people on United 93 was very late for the plane and almost missed it, except they waited for him. Just awful.

9/11 interfered big time with my aggressive social climbing

Ignore that annoying man from Oz.

The high-jackers were quite clever. , Brutal and clever. These qualities + suicidal = the most dangerous people on the planet.

There were neocons who were hoping for a Pearl Harbor caliber calamity to justify a federal government power grab. This is a fact. I believe Cheney and co. allowed the attack to transpire. I believe W.’s reaction at the grade school was one of “holy shit, did Cheney actually pull this off?” I believe that this is the reason neither of them would agree to testify under oath to the 9/11 committee, something neither of them wanted to do at all initially.

There are some miracle stories of survivors on the National Geographic series. There's one about "stairway B"...in the 2nd tower before it fell. There was a woman there who needed help. A fire company unit were assembled there and proceeded to help her down, from many stories...until reaching the fourth floor landing on the stairway.... as the woman said she couldn't go on. At that point, the tower collapsed. The stairway remained basically intact and that's what saved them. If they continued down, they would have been crushed and not survive. It was that moment that saved them. I think that fire company was the only one that most, if not all, firemen made it. There was a reunion later of the woman and all the firemen. The woman died eight years later. There were miracles in that devastation...like there were guardian angels.

Those "explosions" were the noises made as the building became unstable. JFC people will believe anything.

Also, bodies falling...people jumped, sounded like explosions when landed.

[quote] Structural steel has insulation against getting too hot, which causes it to lose its structural integrity, but of course it provides only limited protection.

And, the insulation tends to get knocked off when an airplane going 400 mph hits your building.

I agree that people believe what they want to believe.

Police on the ground were also shooting out the windows of the lobby so the people coming down the stairwells could get out more quickly.

I’m over it. My sympathies lie with the dead and those who survived and the loved ones of the dead. But too many people have latched onto the tragedy as an excuse to vent their hatreds and other agendas.

The various conspiracies are so stupid and moronic, and spouting them really show a lack of critical thinking. George Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq because of "oil", and pressure from Cheney. Ok. How about he simply hired the band of suicidal Saudis to do his bidding? Why the need for a controlled explosion (especially since the whole world saw jetliners fly directly into the buildings)? Other than the fact that they were Saudis and he invaded Iraq, the hijacker story works just fine on it's own. Why the need for the "controlled demolition" which would require hundreds of people who can keep a secret?

Does anyone know what happened to people in the elevators? What floor were they on?

Another conspiracy theory for y’all:

All the planes in the country were grounded, except the plane taking the Bin Laden family out of the country.

How the fuck did they know, on that very day, that the family needed to leave?? Nobody had any idea yet of who was responsible 🤷🏻‍♀️

I can’t remember where I heard that or read it.

You moron, the Bin Laden families were contacted after the attacks.

r60 That's so weird because I bought if a few years ago and watched it again last week through my Amazon library. I guess the Clinton's missed my account when they were scubbing it from the world. By the way, you're a fucking moron.

I remember as a young gayling in NYC, I was numb when it happened and for months and months afterwards.

A year later or so, I heard about a video called "Loose Change" which purported that it was all fake or manipulated or bombs or something. Lots of slickly edited renditions of certain moments of the attack, particularly on the Pentagon, to make it seem plausible that it was a missile and not an airplane, lots of "WTC7 was blown up", and so on and so forth.

The other thing I began to do that year, however, was to begin to learn about Islam and the Koran. I concluded that the sort of people who made "Loose Change" were the sort of people who knew nothing about the unrelenting nature of Jihad.

Nowhere in Loose Change, for example, was an explanation of the date of Sept 11, the choice of which only makes perfect sense once you understand that Madrassas around the world had taught that Sept 11 1683 was the last day of the last Great (hundreds-years long) Jihad on the West, and that according to Muslims back then as now, it was not a defeat or capitulation, just a break in activities, and that the Jihad would be resumed against the West once allah gave the sign, even if that was hundreds of years in the future.

Loose Change seemed to know nothing of the "legitimate" (to Muslims) 'reasons' that Sept 11th was done.

Although, as a side note - I will say that it seems perfectly believable to me that the US government heard chatter about an attack and ignored it out of ignorance and hubris. Sounds about right for them to have done that.

The planes were not at flight altitude when the calls were made, cell reception was possible. All planes back then had emergency air phones.

Next question?

The significance of the date September 11th has never been widely publicized by the media, then or now. It is a very important date in the Muslim world.

R171, asked and answered.

Why do you people think you are so clever or that no one has given you the information you think is so crucial?

The government hired crisis actors who sounded EXACTLY like the people on the planes who made the phone calls, so their relatives thought it was their loved ones calling! The crisis actors were SO good they even fooled the families of the victims! I saw a video on Youtube that told me this!

Still haunted by the images of the jumpers and people hanging out the windows.

Of course I'm still angry because the real culprits got away with it and our world has never been the same. The masses have had 20 fucking years to figure this out. Seriously?!?

Jack shit has ever been done about Saudi Arabia. I agree, r178.

R167 Some of the people in the elevators made it out alive, some did not. There were two levels of elevators in the building - the first transported people from the ground up to the 70th-something floor (the “sky lobby”) and then there was another bank of elevators for the upper floors. That upper level was all destroyed, I’m pretty sure, but the lower level elevators had fail safes that meant the compartments didn’t free-fall to the lobby. Some people were actually able to use the elevators to get down to the ground floor even after the crash (I believe at least one of them was working post-crash). When the first plane hit the North Tower, the jet fuel created a very quick, very large fireball that did unfortunately burn some people in one of the elevator towers to death. But others made it through that. Shockingly there was one stairwell in one of the towers that survived intact even above the crash level, so something like 5-10 people above the crash in one of the towers were able to make it to the ground through that and escape.

R170 chill out Hillary.

What's to declassify?

the elevators: my sister's best friend was in an elevator on her way up to her floor. She decided to get off on a different floor first to grab a cup of coffee. As soon as she stepped out and the door closed the plane hit and everyone in that elevator was incinerated. She then left the building and was found hours later by the river babbling. She was in shock and said if the fire came she could jump in the river.

I knew she was saved because she had a sister who had been a drug addict her entire life until she died but she ended up having 4 or 5 kids who this woman ended up raising by herself. She never had time to meet anyone so she was single. She was spared because of what she had done for those kids so she could finish raising them.

Im another one who hates reading stupid conspiracy theories about 9/11. While I do not believe Bush was responsible for 9/11, do I believe he and the Republican party used it to his advantage? Absolutely. People seem to forget the trainwreck of the 2000 election had just come to a close, not even a year before 9/11. This was the only way GWB could make himself look somewhat Presidential, so he ran with it.

Did anyone above either impact zone survive?

Rachel Dratch said that Debbie Downer came from a couple she met on vacation who found out she was from New York and the wife kept bringing up 9/11

The father of my son’s friend was a musician & sound engineer. He did post production work on the documentary by the two French brothers. They were working on it right up until it aired. There was debate about whether or not they should lower the sound of the bodies hitting the overhang. They lowered it. When my husband told me about this documentary, I couldn’t believe it. He said “So-and-so told me her husband worked on a documentary that’s going to be on tv. These French brothers happened to be filming in a firehouse downtown and they were outside on the street and they saw the plane hit WTC. The filmed the plane hitting and they went right into the building and filmed inside after the plane hit.”

I thought he was having some kind of psychotic delusion because it was so random sounding, it was too coincidental. And he said “It’s going to be on tv in about 2 days.” Two days! I mean, it was so shortly after it happened that I couldn’t believe that even if it really happened like he said it did, they could show it to the network execs, cut it, put it together and get it on TV in such a short period of time. It took *years* before the public was allowed to see the Zapruder film clip on TV yet we were going to see video of this massive catastrophe so soon after it happened?

Little did I know what a brave new world we’d entered.

When the men from the firehouse entered the lobby, the elevator doors opened and people were on fire. Obviously, that did not go into the documentary.

I remember reading an article in the New Yorker that was in the issue right after 9/11 happened. It was shocking. One person saw a man walking along inside the building with his skin burned off, his teeth were chattering. I think it said he looked like he was covered in gray powder. I also read - not sure if it was in the New Yorker article or another - of a fireman directing people inside the building who was cut in two pieces by a huge pane of glass that fell. I think it was in an article about trauma therapy where they had the people who saw terrible things repeat their story to therapists several times because they felt it helped the people deal with what they saw when they verbalized it to other people again and again.

Those “Generation 9/11” young people were unbelievable. They seemed annoyed by the whole thing. Why be in a documentary if it’s annoying you so much? Like, “Oh god people have been bothering me my whole life about this 9/11 thing (eye roll)………I got a new tattoo…..”

Only the conspiracy ass wipes disgust me. When did this country get so batshit crazy?

[quote] All the planes in the country were grounded, except the plane taking the Bin Laden family out of the country.

They were given special permission to leave the USA. Certain Bin Laden family members (and the family is very, very large) had a special "friendship" *coughoilcoigh* with the Bush family.

We spent 10-20 TRILLION dollars and thousands of more lives on two stupid wars that we LOST. That angers me far more than 9/11.

R186, no one above the 10thh floor surviuved

Regarding the elevators there a webpage that has some pretty shocking pictures of the burned victims being lay out in the lobby floor.

TBH the scale of the human tragedy of this event is horrific.

No one above the impact zone escaped from the North Tower (a lot of the people trapped were the Cantor Fitzgerald or Windows on the World employees), but four people did make it out from above the impact zone in the South Tower because one of the stairwells remained intact.

Thank you for the information, R190.

R193, the link doesn’t work for me.

Part 3 of the Spike Lee doc now on HBO focused on 9-11 and he didn’t shy away from showing the bodies tumbling from the burning tower. It was hard to watch but we’ve been so shielded from those images over the years.

Can you imagine if Smartphones and social media had been around back then, and what would've been posted online?

R193 do you have another link? I am fascinated by the elevators

I just started watching the Netflix doc called Turning Point (starting episode 3). In the first episode you hear the FAA recordings; it also shows people jumping out of the buildings from the higher floors (pretty graphic). The American involvement with the Taliban and our history of funding these people is really interesting.

I don't want to get banned but here they are

R174 What a load of bullshit. No, it does not. The Muslim calendar is a lunar calendar and September 11 has no religious significance.

Damn

r202 September 11 1683 was when the Ottoman army was defeated at the walls of Vienna, halting Muslim expansion into Western Europe. It is a VERY significant date in the Muslim world.

[quote]The Battle of Vienna[a] took place at Kahlenberg Mountain near Vienna on 11 September 1683[1] after the imperial city had been besieged by the Ottoman Empire for two months. The battle was fought by the Holy Roman Empire led by the Habsburg Monarchy and the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, both under the command of King John III Sobieski, against the Ottomans and their vassal and tributary states. The battle marked the first time the Commonwealth and the Holy Roman Empire had cooperated militarily against the Ottomans, and it is often seen as a turning point in history, after which "the Ottoman Turks ceased to be a menace to the Christian world".[18][Note 3] In the ensuing war that lasted until 1699, the Ottomans lost almost all of Hungary to the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I.[18]

R197- The film of people falling from the towers is not new. I've seen those on the internet on youtube.

Ottomans practiced the Sunni Islam

r202, You are woefully undereducated.

Foreign Policy: "How Jihadists schedule terrorist attacks" May 3, 2013

"Sept. 11

Despite the widely circulated myth that al Qaeda selected the date 9/11 for its similarity to the emergency call number 9-1-1, the date was important to the terrorist network because of its relationship with Islam.

As Lawrence Wright wrote in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book 'The Looming Tower', on Sept. 11, 1683, the King of Poland launched the battle that turned back the advance of Muslim armies. "For the next three hundred years, Islam would be overshadowed by the growth of Western Christian societies," Wright explained.

Osama bin Laden saw the attack on the World Trade Center as Islam's big comeback [from the loss in 1683]. The date has since been used by other terrorists, including the jihadists who struck the U.S. compound in Benghazi, killing U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans last year."

R204 It’s significant to the Ottoman Empire, not Islam as a whole. As a matter of fact, I would think Arabs would be happt at Turkish defeat as most blame the Ottomans for the end of the golden age of Islam. I also doubt the various Muslim African kingdoms, the Mughals and Far East Asian Muslims care for the Ottoman defeat. One could also argue that the Reconquista of Spain was more significant.

And as far as I recall, there weren’t any Turkish people involved in 9/11.

*happy at Turkish defeat

r208 it's significant to Islam as a whole. Why do you think September 11 was chosen as the date for the attacks? You were caught out for your ignorance and are now trying to backpedal.

[quote]Prior to 2001, most Westerners outside of Central Europe viewed the Battle of Vienna as being in the distant past; however, the significance of this date was never lost upon radical Islamists who vowed to avenge this loss of empire. To men such as Osama bin Laden who viewed the height of Islamic expansion as a “golden age” and who wished to restore the Caliphate, September 11th was symbolic. For this reason he selected it as the date on which to launch the largest terrorist attack on the West.

Truly educated people such as early 20th Century Catholic essayist Hilaire Belloc not only understood the importance of Sept. 11th 1683, but presciently linked it with the idea that the wound dealt that day to the Muslim world was so severe as to make a future Islamic attack on the West in retaliation for it easily predictable.

He wrote this in 1938, as Hitler was dropping bombs all around him in London, on the successful repulsion of the Muslims Great Siege of Vienna 1683:

“The last effort they made to destroy Christendom... only just over two hundred years ago. Vienna, as we saw, was almost taken and only saved by the Christian army under the command of the King of Poland on a date that ought to be among the most famous in history–September 11, 1683. ...

It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent.

Why this conviction should have arisen in the minds of certain observers and travellers, such as myself, I will now consider. It is indeed a vital question, "May not Islam arise again?"

Sept. 11th was so important a date in the Muslim world that someone back in 1938 wartime Britain linked it with a prediction that Islam would, at some point in the future, seek revenge for what happened on that date in 1683.

Not the guy you are trying to shame... Is there any evidence that September 11 was important to anyone related to the attacks? Did Bin Laden say it was? Did the hijackers? I'd be convinced if I saw something that made it clear that that date was important to those involved.

r213 as has been explained, Sept. 11th 1683 was a humiliating defeat for the Muslim world, and it has never been forgotten. It marked the end of Islam's expansion into Western Europe and all hope of conquering it.

R214, you aren't answering my question.

No r215 Bin Laden and the hijackers had no idea about the Battle of Vienna. They were the only Muslims in the world who didn't know about it. And September 11 was randomly chosen by them. JFC.

Hopelessly stupid people like r215 are so exhausting.

I didn't say that, r216. All I did was ask for direct evidence that that was the reason they picked that day.

A search finds a NY Times article that indicates the date was fairly flexible, including originally being planned for May 12, and then postponed into June or July.

Good lord r218 just give it up.

[quote]All I did was ask for direct evidence that that was the reason they picked that day.

And if my aunt had a dick she would be my uncle

I'm watching the Spike Lee 9/11 thing on HBO Max right now and Sweet Fucking Jesus. The endless clips of people repeating exactly the same thing. The endless personal stories that are just tedious and have nothing to do with the topic. The film clips that are unnecessary. Good lord how did he get to be so successful? An NYU film student could've put together something much better than this.

R221- I noticed that Spike Lee seems to place particular emphasis on black people- Maybe the woke crowd would have canceled him if he didn't put a lot of black people in the documentary.

[quote] Good lord [R218] just give it up.

OK, I will. Since you have no actual evidence and completely ignored the only actual evidence offered.

Never change, dataloungers.

r223 you don't need "direct evidence" for something that is so blatantly obvious. PS you're an idiot.

Afterc29 years? I had to get over it.

[quote] you don't need "direct evidence" for something that is so blatantly obvious

That's actually the same argument the conspiracy theorists make. Congrats.

r226 you need direct evidence to decide whether or not something so blatantly obvious is true or not? Do you know nothing about Muslims, Islam and what is taught in Madrasas around the world?

A whole lot of sound and fury there, r227. Meaning nothing.

r228 you really can give up now, if you think September 11th wasn't deliberately chosen, and how significant that date is in the Muslim world.

this masterpiece continues to age like a fine bordeaux...

[quote] [R228] you really can give up now, if you think September 11th wasn't deliberately chosen, and how significant that date is in the Muslim world.

Not going to give up. Thanks for the permission, though.

I didn't say September 11th was NOT deliberately chosen. I asked for evidence it was. There is a difference.

Also didn't say I thought the date was not significant in the Muslim world. I asked for evidence it was chosen by Bin Laden, Atta, pretty much anyone, for that reason. There is a difference.

So...

R221 You didn’t enjoy the montage of people repeating variations on “the sky was so blue that day?’

r231 you need help for your Aspergers more than anything else. Do you really think it could've been a coincidence? Do you really think Bin Laden and the hijackers chose that date randomly?

The Ottoman Empire also lost the Siege of Malta on September 11,1565 and the Battle of Zenta on September 11, 1697 which were also humiliating defeats for Muslims and Islam. Interesting how that date keeps reappearing.

[quote]They were given special permission to leave the USA. Certain Bin Laden family members (and the family is very, very large) had a special "friendship" *coughoilcoigh* with the Bush family.

A guy from my high school lived in the same condo building as a couple of the younger Bin Ladens, this was a modern, pricy building in the Chestnut Hill (greater Boston) area, sorry I can picture it in my head but I can't recall the name of it.

The day after 9/11 they left the buildings with their personal belongings and were never seen again. His neighbors said they saw them get into a car with suitcases as if they were going to an airport. He thinks they left out of Hanscom AFB but he was never sure. The local airports were all shut by that point.

He felt badly because he knew one of them in passing, a younger woman in her 20s who was studying at one of the local universities (Harvard or BU), she as very modern and friendly and used to jog around the neighborhood. He imagined she was very ashamed and upset by what had happened.

^^ I lived near Boston 9/11/01 and I remember late that night hearing the military planes fly over.

R116, Those are my thoughts exactly. Those neocon's got everything they wanted out of the event and then some.

Willie Brown was warned not to fly that day. There was some Mayor's conference going on. Bush Admin officials stopped flying commercial around July/August. There were also rumors of major stock options placed on airlines the day before?

I will never forget that day. Turning on my car and hearing what was going on. I actually worked late that day(10:00am) and never had the TV on while getting ready, so I had no idea. It was utterly surreal. No one could get through on the phone lines and the internet crawled.

[quote]He imagined she was very ashamed and upset by what had happened.

Shouldn’t assume.

R14

Can you PLEASE share more about the severed hands?

They were from a flight attendant r239

The most CHILLING thing of all the videos on youtube relating to the World Trade Center was the audio of Kevin Cosgrove on the phone with a 9/11 operator telling her - we're young men we're not ready to die, and as he's describing what he sees the building starts to collapse and you can hear the rumble and him say OH GOD!- then the line goes dead.

Am I still upset? No. Do I think we know everything about 9/11? No. We probably never will. I find it intriguing that Mohamed Atta's passport was found lying on top of the rubble that day.

r242 the hijackers were all seen boarding the planes. Cameras captured them and there were numerous eyewitnesses at the airport. JFC give it a rest.

It’s extremely difficult to fight people who are willing to die, willing to kill themselves in order to destroy their opponent. How can you fight people like that?

In 20 years I fear some, if not more than some, of the kids of these refugees will be America-hating ticking time bombs. Second generation is where the problems usually lie.

No, OP. Move the fuck on.

We’re people this hysterical about Pearl Harbor in 1961?

Yes R245. The US will become Paris.

I hoped that our experiencing 9/11 would make us empathetic as to the horror that other countries experience with terrorism and war.

Instead it made us even more self centered

I worked downtown NYC and we all saw the second plane hit the tower. Our office building was immediately evacuated and we all had to walk home because no public transportation was working.

NYC was silent for at least two weeks and we smelled burning rubber everywhere.

Yes, I am still made.

1. The event was used to justify 20 years of war 2. The event was used to justify the un-American "Patriot Act" 3. Despite Islam showing us what it is, stupid ultra-lefties are welcoming Muslims in the U.S. with open arms. Muslims hate us and our way of life. They won't be happy until they bring us down,

R250- I remember that smell. You could smell it all the way on the upper east side. That smell was not rubber it was PEOPLE.

"... but geez, there video—lots and lots of it."

There's actually too much video to be practical. Most people didn't have camera phones at the time. And the French guys making a documentary at the time just happened to be be aiming the camera at the WTC at that preccise moment?

I know quite a few people who lived downtown, and in the East Village even, who developed COPD from the smoke from the fires. Another close friend who lived on Pearl St., and was moving OUT of the neighborhood that very week, got lost in the smoke outside, along with his wife, and they got separated from each other because it was so dense. He was a runner, who regularly ran 5 miles in the city. He developed sarcoidosis soon after that exposure (which is incurable and fatal sometimes), and has been living with it ever since.

I remember the surreal moment on television when 2 news readers, a man and woman I think, are just inanely going on and on about the situation as it is happening, sitting at their desk with a live shot of the Towers burning behind them, and as the first tower starts to sink, they don't even register what is happening right before their eyes on the monitor, for nearly a full minute. It was so unbelievable that it didn't even register what had happened. It was like a dream.

No one called from the airplanes. The cell phone technology was not advanced enough in 2001 for people to call that far away from cell towers.

^What about the "Let's Roll" call reported to have come from the Philadelphia plane? All of that was MADE UP?

R256- People on the plane were able to call their families and leave messages on answering machines. Most of them used the cell phones that were on the planes. In those days planes had built in cell phones that you could use to make phone calls. I remember seeing them even in 2005 when I went to San Francisco on AA.

R256 You do know there were phones on the back of the airplane seats, don’t you?

Educate yourself, r256.

Back then, Christine Todd Whitman was head of the EPA...and announced that Ground Zero air was perfectly safe. You knew, watching all that smoke and debris....God knows how toxic the air was at that time, even before she told that huge lie. I don't know how some people can live with themselves.

Great Clips

It was later determined that those specific aircraft were not equipped with Air Phones that day; there weren't any onboard.

Best doc. I've ever seen on The Big Lie. Avoids the tears and candles and teddy bears.

Conspiracy Trolls are tiresome as hell.

[quote] It was later determined that those specific aircraft were not equipped with Air Phones that day; there weren't any onboard.

Of course, you have a reliable source for that, right?

As has been said before, the US government hired crisis actors who sounded EXACTLY like the people on the planes! The actors were SO good at impersonating the voices of the passengers, even their own families were fooled into thinking it was really their loved ones talking! I saw a video on Youtube about it, so I know it must be true.

R253, you’re perhaps the only person in history to claim there was too much evidence. It’s laughable.

Btw, I mistyped the first few words of the sentence above^ and it autocorrected to “you’re -Erna”.

[quote]Of course, you have a reliable source for that, right?

Yeah, this guy on YouTube that lives in his mother's basement.

R247, Pearl Harbor was not televised / experienced live. Most people saw only brief clips of Pearl Harbor days or weeks later in theaters.

R249, after the initial outpouring of sympathy from the world, the narrative changed to basically "you deserved it" "you had it coming" Muslim friends from Europe said this to me about 6 months later as they sat in my living room in NYC, staying as guests with me for three weeks, knowing I lost a friend and two acquaintances.

I educated myself about Islam. I tell the truth about it every chance I get, I do not patronize muslim-owned stores, I do not eat halal food or assist Muslims in any way.

Religion has been responsible for a huge amount of wars and conflicts in our world. All of the major religions have their hand in that cookie jar. Christianity is just as culpable as Islam.

Not in the modern world r272. Muslims still behave like Medieval savages.

Tell that to the politicians in Texas r273. And the other southern states that will fall into lockstep with them.

The ones that want to make abortion illegal. They reach their conclusions based on their religious beliefs-Christianity. Most of them are opposed to LGBT rights, affirmative action, critical race theory and anything else that requires empathetic thought and tolerance. Just like Islam.

What rights? ^

R274 - you’re white, gay, and woke.

[quote]I educated myself about Islam. I tell the truth about it every chance I get, I do not patronize muslim-owned stores, I do not eat halal food or assist Muslims in any way.

You come off like such a fucking tool. You have an agenda - that's clear, You're not educated. Spare me.

BTW, if you were actually educated, you'd know that far more Muslims actually died having worked in that building than had anything to do with destroying it. I feel sorry for the Muslim families who not only have to deal with having had their family killed in that building but then have to deal with repugnant, odious bigots who lost no one and call them "terrorists."

As a NYer who did lose someone, I watch far more people simply USE 9/11 as a cudgel for their own hate, than actually give a damn about the victims. The same people who are "meh" about something like January 6th, would be like R276 if the exact same thing happened, but it were just ONE Muslim person.

Let's not forget the Harley Guy crisis actor who just happened to describe what would eventually become the "official story" of how the World Trade Center collapsed. This interview occurred roughly around 11:55 the morning of 9/11, only an hour and a half after both towers had collapsed.

Certainly hope those of you hate all Muslims so much that you make a concerted effort to hate every single one of them to the point you avoid "their" food and shit, didn't take the Pfizer vaccine.

Yeah, you you sound perfectly normal being this hateful. So sane.

Do you defend Christians with the same passion, R280? I hope so.

Muslims as a whole are not conducive to Western societies. Some of you are truly naive an have utopian fantasies that are not grounded in reality.

I am more upset about January 6.

[quote] Muslims as a whole are not conducive to Western societies. Some of you are truly naive an have utopian fantasies that are not grounded in reality.

Anyone who speaks in absolutes about vast millions of people as if they were all the same has no leg to stand on in criticizing others for not being grounded in reality,

[quote]Anyone who speaks in absolutes about vast millions of people as if they were all the same has no leg to stand on in criticizing others for not being grounded in reality,

White gay men would never say this about Muslims or blacks, they only say this about white people or Christians.

r284 real-world evidence does not support your argument.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why countries like France and Britain take so many of these people when they do nothing but sit on the dole and pop out kids. They don't contribute anything to the countries who have taken them in, and are hostile to the people and culture. It makes no sense.

I wanted to go back in time to see the beautiful explosion of the towers. It was good spectacle.

[quote]I cannot for the life of me figure out why countries like France and Britain take so many of these people when they do nothing but sit on the dole and pop out kids.

Someone said upthread or on another thread they are forced to.

[quote] real-world evidence does not support your argument

Actually, it most certainly does. But it may be hard to see through prejudiced lenses.

Post 245 in this thread.

[quote]But it may be hard to see through prejudiced lenses.

And your own too because you don’t give a fuck what happens to gay people.

Don't expect Muslims to shake your hand. You're scum infidels to them-dogs. They won't touch you.

r290 you can tell us which Muslim country is a functioning democracy now. We'll wait.

[quote] And your own too because you don’t give a fuck what happens to gay people.

There is absolutely nothing that could lead you to this insane notion.

[quote] you can tell us which Muslim country is a functioning democracy now. We'll wait.

Non-sequitor distraction.

r295 has his narrative and he's sticking to it.

R75. I’m a pilot, and yes, once a jet is in the air there aren’t too many things you need to know to keep it going. It’s take offs, landings and coping with bad weather that are hard. And steering into a large building is not tough either. Remember that when a plane lands on a runway, the pilot is aiming at, relatively, a tiny target. That’s easily learned in a simulator.

I really don't think this does any good in Western countries. It's not beneficial at all.

I've always been struck at how Mohammed was strikingly similar to a fanatical, homicidal cult leader like Jim Jones.

People who act as though a flight simulator were equivalent to a video game make me laugh. That's serious, and, from what I understand, stressful training equipment. It simulates a real flight experience, geddit?

R167 Many of them burned or their elevator fell to the bottom. I watched a video once of a young guy who was on an elevator by himself and was fooling around and jumped up and landed hard. Just as he did it, the elevator stopped and he thought oh shit, I broke it. He was trapped for awhile until amazingly the elevator moved again and stopped a bit above the lobby. He jumped out and a cop or firefighter led him to an exit.

R278, unfortunately, it is just not one muslim and it wasn't just 9/11. You are welcome to be as blind as you wish. That is your choice and hopefully only you experience the consequences of your choice.

Was the government behind it all?

No, r276, black and woke since birth.

At some point “Never Forget 9/11” became Trumpy-adjacent, not sure why

I'm more upset that Eight Is Enough has been off the air for FORTY years.

You didn’t capitalize “black” for someone so black and so woke, R304.

Very telling that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. were unharmed. Why the WTC? Why not maximum damage, like a nuclear facility, or massive electrical blackout? They say one was headed to the White House, but of course that never happened (the Bushes lived there!).

It all seems very precise and controlled.

And why did it all stop that day? Why aren't planes being constantly targeted? Certainly no credit to the TSA, which constantly fails the x-ray tests.

Oh STFU r308

#309 has posted on this thread 39 times. Now who has the 'agenda' here, hmm?

r310 - hunched over his screen counting the number of times people post in a thread. You keep being you, sweetheart!

2996 people died in the World Trade Center. Only about 300 bodies were ever recovered. The rest were incinerated and/or pulverized when the towers fell.

I'm still sad about the sinking of the [italic]USS Maine[/italic] in Havana Harbor!

[quote] Don't expect Muslims to shake your hand. You're scum infidels to them-dogs. They won't touch you.

I'll have to explain that to my sweet and exuberant Muslim colleague who frequently shakes my hand and/or hugs both me and his other non-Muslim friends at work.

"Some racist on my gay chat site says your behavior doesn't exist!"

r314 it's true of many Muslims. The migrants in Germany had to be taught to shake hands, much to their consternation.

Just like there is a huge percentage of the population who view religion as a total crock of shit, and see "devoted" Christians as mostly big, gullible hypocrites...here in the US and Europe, there are tons of Muslims who feel the exact same way about their religion. Maybe even more so and that's why they rape and whip and behead to keep control in some Muslim countries. But believe me, many are quite relieved to be rid of the oppression when they experience the "West". There are good, kind people from Muslim countries, though not all. It's fair to give them a chance if they're refugees, but still be leery,

A Muslim couple was denied Swiss citizenship over their refusal to shake hands with the infidel.

William Burroughs had it right: a religion devised by the Mecca Chamber of Commerce.

It isn't "911," whoever is writing it like that. The designation is "9/11."

You know, like how today is 9/06, not 906.

All the coverage will be wreaths, tears, somber music, dark clothes, flags... No one wants to ask the hard questions because the people who know the answers aren't talking.

Give us an example of one of those hard questions that won't be asked, r320.

R321) Yes, I’d like to know as well

Well, I'm glad *someone* remembers the Maine, R313!

"Give us an example of one of those hard questions that won't be asked #320"

Marvin Bush's involvement.

Loon alert at r324!

🤣🤣🤣

This building (and many other such infernos) never 'fell down' .

That's because the WTC was built by gangsters who were even greedier than the ones who built that Chinese building.

I can still remember the stench. It lasted for weeks and weeks.

Of course. It's horrific. However I don't think about it as much as I used to but when I do....

Do you know what a question is, r324? Because you didn't post one.

I was relatively young (middle school) when 9/11 happened and, of course, it was completely shocking. I remember watching the 9/11 telethon a few weeks later and just crying (Mary!!).

However, it wasn't until this year that I actually looked at photos from that day and, wow, I wasn't ready to see the street photos with chunks of human flesh everywhere.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to watch any fictional media about 9/11. I remember rolling my eyes when my grandmother said she couldn't watch Titanic because it just made her too sad, knowing what really happened. I "get" what she meant now.

They were still finding bodies for two or three years at Ground Zero.

Will not watch anything connected to 9/11..I don't need additional sadness in my life.

I agree with R334. I got sucked into this thread yesterday and then had nightmares about buildings collapsing last night. It was a tragic day but ruminating over it too much does more harm than good

Oh, also, I don't think I fully comprehended until horrible all the dust and debris were until looking at photos recently, too. I'm not sure if I thought it only affected a smaller radius, or what... but I've also been to New York City since then (of course), so now that I have a better understanding of the geography of that area... wow..

The thing that I removed most is how it felt like sucker punch after sucker punch. Usually when something horrible happens, that’s it—the event is over. But the whole day was just a series of punches to the gut that topped the punches that came before.

This was infuriating. Yet let’s bring Muslims to America.

“But not all Muhlisms are the same!!”

Yes they are.

^ and in any other time, the Pentagon attack alone would have been the story of the decade.

Well, r338, you've certainly proved one thing: that you are a moron.

A lot of gay Muslims around here. White gay Muslims.

Thanks for the meaningless drivel, r341.

r340, the bigger moron is the one who claims everyone else is a moron, but offers no other comment or proof.

Damn, damn, damn, r342. I just realized that I thought you commented on my post, but the one you commented on I've actually blocked and didn't see.

Seriously, a thousand apologies.

^ that was me also at r343... I keep losing track of post numbers since I have a ton of trolls already blocked.

WEHT Lisa Beamer?

R328- The Rockefellers were behind the construction of the World Trade Center, whose construction began in 1968 and was completed at the end of 1973.

Of all the idiocies I've seen on DL, the notion that the Muslims would remember Sep. 11 1683 has to be right at the bottom. They don't even observe the solar calendar in Islam, you muppet, any more than we would remember Rosh Hashanah in our Gregorian Calendar. I know, we have a lot of people being accused as Boris in this site, but you've got to admit we've got a fair number of Ignatius O'Reillys as well.

r348 you know nothing about Muslims then. Sept. 11 is an important date.

Most Muslims do not even consider September at all, anymore than we would give a fuck about Safar or Rajab. Even Ramadan is more relevant to us than September is to them. You complete and utter muppet and oxygen thief.

r350 you are incorrect. September 11 is relevant to Muslims. This is taught in Madrassas. You are totally uninformed. But then there's no arguing with ignorance.

The Gregorian calendar is followed in Islamic countries, I don't know where r348/350 is getting his information from.

Prove it, motherfucker.

Go read something on the subject, idiot r353

Use logic, smooth-brain.

What most Americans still don't realise is – because their media don't tell them of their government's crimes: for millions of people, it was the best day of their lives. Here's an article from the Australian press that mainstream American press would never publish.

I meant more the construction companies than the financiers. Maybe you could blame the architect. Either way, the buildings were obviously just barely standing to begin with.

[quote] the bigger moron is the one who claims everyone else is a moron, but offers no other comment or proof

I'm sorry. I thought it was self-evident that one video in no way proves that all Muslims everywhere and always are the same as r338 declared. But I guess that was more than your teeny tiny brain could comprehend.

It appears the situation as far as the calendar goes is more complicated than either side here is aware.

[quote] The Islamic calendar is now used primarily for religious purposes, and for official dating of public events and documents in Muslim countries. Because of its nature as a purely lunar calendar, it cannot be used for agricultural purposes and historically Islamic communities have used other calendars for this purpose: the Egyptian calendar was formerly widespread in Islamic countries, and the Iranian calendar and the 1789 Ottoman calendar (a modified Julian calendar) were also used for agriculture in their countries. These local solar calendars have receded in importance with the near-universal adoption of the Gregorian calendar for civil purposes.

Just to throw a little gasoline on the "date issue" fire, the March bombings in the Spanish subway system occurred exactly 6 months after 9/11, if I remember right. I don't believe that was an accident.

R358, though muddled, I apologized for that post. I thought you were referring to something I wrote, but you were referring to a post right below mine (the post with the video), which I didn’t even see because I had the OP blocked. I agree, that video was crap.

[quote]that video was crap.

Wow. All the more reason to vote out Democrats next year and in 24.

My brother was in the Second Tower, his body was never found. It's always a sad, empty day.

How terrible...I'm sorry about your brother R363.

I’m still upset at the needless loss of human life. I’m also still upset our government used that as excuse to engage in more needless loss of human life, up to and including failing to properly care for our first responders and others living at Ground Zero.

There was a family in my hometown whose relative's body wasn't found at Ground Zero until 2003.

R47 Hi.

Somebody compiled a list of all who died at the WTC that day.

The only footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon. Read the Comments section. Almost everyone says that might be a plane, but it's not Flight 77.

^A woman I knew and her husband, and her 2 young children, were onboard that plane, bound ultimately for a teaching job at a University in Australia. Their plane most certainly went right into the Pentagon and all four were killed. FUCK YOU.

R369, you’re all that’s wrong with the internet. It’s not a battle between right vs. left, Democrats vs. Republicans. It’s a battle between the smart vs. the stupid.

YOU’RE THE STUPID.

Just give it up and go live out your life on a farm and drink moonshine all day. You’ll be just as useful.

[quote] Are you still upset about 9/11?

Well, it was rather rude.

No.... now i am upset at china and their freak virus lab.

Two friends of mine actually SAW the fucking plane hit the Pentagon r369

I have a friend who was IN the Pentago when the plane hit. To this day she suffers from PTSD and is really a changed person.

IN the PENTAGON not Pentago

It became Trump adjacent before Trump. White folks closed ranks. It became all about them. Rescue workers of color who assisted in the rescue efforts were ignored by the press. Only the victims being rescued by the white men were given a voice and even then they were ignored. I’m not wrong here. The Rudy the Mobster used it as a platform. He hijacked the tragedy to build up his own reputation and political ambitions. And he has ALWAYS had issues with minorities. And those firefighters were pure rednecks to the point where they bitched and moaned when the the person who created the statue dedicated to the rescue workers had people of color on it. They wanted it to be a white thing. The attack was seen as the brown non-Christians killing the white Christian people. And that’s how the media has been serving this shit ever since.

I’m not wrong.

r377 is an absolute moron

Still smarter than r378.

r377 has a narrative and is sticking to it, no matter how asinine.

But why are you mad r380.

Touched a nerve, huh?

Last night on the ABC news they interviewed the last person rescued who was alive and she was black

All of the retrospectives have had a very diverse group of people.

And she was interviewed by a black woman R382. Watch GMA or GMA3 and you will see that half (or more sometimes) of the hosts and guests are black lately. ABC is striving to be very very politically correct.

R382) Yes, I’ve noticed that… as well as commercials.

No. I rarely think of it.

The Naudet Brothers original idea was to follow a rookie New York fireman from graduation into the fire service, they was never to know they would be the first and only camera on the scene of the tragic events of 911. It is the only footage inside of the North tower. Watched this over several days last year. Stayed with me all year. Last week, still thinking of it I was amazed to see that although I had been thinking of this all year it was now coming up to that date again.

[quote] ABC is striving to be very very politically correct.

No, ABC is attempted to attract an audience.

^^^attempting

Anyone pretending that muslims dont hate gays and women are outta their minds

99% of people in Afghanistan believe in sharia law.

^^^like they would say no r391? I’d be scared to death to give my real opinion.

But I don’t disagree with those who call Islam homophobic, because it is…and the men in Islamic countries are glaringly hypocritical about it, since so many men there hire boy prostitutes.

Which Saudi Prince was accused of male rape more than once?

"Prince"...hawhawhawhaw.

This aspect fascinates me.

Today the biggest threat to the US is from white domestic anti-government terrorist.

Just think....if Gore did not have the election stolen from him, the warnings would have been heeded.

Imagine a world where 9-11 did not happen.

Definitely OT but imagine a world if RFK hadn’t been assassinated, r396.

I'm still upset about the United 93 explanation we were given. I think that plane was shot down by the military either by plane or drone. The "let's roll" scenerio feels like a lie.

Well if it FEELS like it, what do we need evidence for?

Harrowing accounts.

R395, you're a fool.

R398- I totally agree. I've thought for many years that the Air Force shot that plane down because they were afraid it was going to crash into the Capitol Building or the White House.

My hometown paper just had an article about a guy who was around my age who died in the WTC. Even though I don't recall ever meeting him, I was in tears reading it. He was only 23.

The 4 terrorists that were released from Gitmo by Obama to free Bergdahl now hold senior posts in the Taliban. These guys will be attacking the U.S. They hate us.

Thanks for the link, R394.

That was fascinating. I had gooseflesh listening to that story.

394) or R405…. Could either of you summarize? Thanks.

R374, One of my coworkers/friends dad was at the Pentagon too. Heard the roar of the jet engines and saw the plane while in a meeting. Fled on foot and ran to his house. He lived nearby. Cowered in the basement for hours.

Also, her mother and brother-in-law were supposed to be on the flight from Logan to LAX. Her mom forgot her luggage and decided to go on a later flight. Told the BIL to stay at Logan while she ran back in a cab.

Both of these stories are absolutely true. She was so freaked out that day trying to get a hold of them. Praying for the best.

Not to be all team blue vs. team red, but the fact that Democrats didn't hold 9/11 and everything else over proto-Magat and Magat heads until the end of time shows how pathetic they are.

On Sunday September 16, 2001 my father and I were driving in Manhattan to go to a museum. We saw a crowd of people and lots of posters. We decided to park the car and investigate. There were zillions of photographs with descriptions of people missing in the WTC plastered on walls and phone booths. I took photos of them, which I still have. Donations were also being requested for ground zero workers who at that time were still searching for any survivors. My father and I went into a Duane Reade and bought some supplies and gave them to this group who would pass them along to the ground zero workers- I think they were toiletries- toothpaste , toothbrush, shaving cream. It's so long ago I'm not sure now. We only bought what we were told to buy for these rescue people. We spoke to people in the crowd. It was a FAR more interesting day than if we hadn't stopped and had just gone to a museum.

I remember seeing the second plane crash. The shock when it was apparent that this was terrorism. Seeing people jumping from the buildings. Seeing the buildings fall. The fear of wondering how many more planes were compromised. All the subsequent crashes. It was traumatizing. I still won’t watch 9/11 footage.

Feel free to call Mary. But it was one of the worst things I’ve ever witnessed. Still makes me cry.

Why has The Woman In White never come forward? Is she dead?

This is an excellent documentary called "Cleared for Chaos" focusing on the Canadian Air Traffic Controllers in Gander who were tasked with telling all the air traffic heading to the US across the Atlantic, that "No you will not be continuing to Dallas, Boston, Chicago, Denver, etc today and are being ordered to land because US airspace is closed." And landing all the planes at Gander and surrounding airports. The photographs of all the huge jumbo jets, parked along all the taxi ways and even parts of the long runway is amazing.

Also how the surrounding towns all pitched in to house and feed all the passengers and crews of the planes.

Very well done.

Attached is a synopsis, R406. I am open minded to the paranormal due to personal experiences. It is interesting what the security guard had to say.

This video is pretty schocking, specially the jumpers part (besides the douchebro).

R414- You must not be from New York. We call them BRIDGE AND TUNNEL morons.

R415, what are you referring to? It doesn’t seem to correspond with anything r414 posted.

I was watching the morning news when they switched over to the national coverage. They aired a summary of the news coverage of that horrible day before switching over to the memorial ceremonies. I was getting so sad and upset that I had to change the channel to BBC America to watch nature programs. I've got MSNBC recording for the day and I'll watch it later - maybe.

I do not know personally know anybody who died that day, but a couple of people from my company did.

I am dreading today's performative terrorism-mourn porn.

I was 22 on 9/11. My dad worked for DoD and we couldn't get in touch with him until late in the afternoon. That was terrifying.

Even so, the most upsetting parts of all of it to me were the sudden government- and media-sanctioned hatred and xenophobia wrapped in American flags, which absolutely terrified me, and the Patriot Act and everything that came with it. A lot of people died and that was tragic but a lot of it was bullshit propaganda, too. Saudi Arabians were primarily responsible and as always they got away scot free with Afghani people being scapegoated and all Middle Eastern Americans paying a price for it. This country showed its ugly true face after 9/11 and that is the real tragedy. I feel a direct connection between our government's and media's response to that day and January 6, 2021. People stopped trusting the government and the media because of the reactions to the 9/11 terrorism, and that began an unraveling of minds and the growth of paranoia.

So yeah, I still think about September 11 but not in the "where were you when it happened/God Bless America!" kind of way we are supposed to perform today.

How many are watching the ceremony? It’s still touching after all these years to hear the names and share the grief of the relatives.

Too bad the Supreme Court gave the election to George W Dumdum. The attack might never have happened, but if it did, I believe the response would have been very different.

Atta was an autistic incel. He has more in common with people like Eric Harris and Adam Garza than the average Muslim/Middle Eastern person just trying to get thru their day like everyone else. He was extremely socially isolated, rigid in his beliefs, picky eater/strict diet, no romantic attachments. He might have said his actions were motivated by religion and politics but I believe if he had been born to a white family in Missouri, the results would have been the same. He was a damaged unpleasant developmentally off person.

*Adam Lanza I meant

It makes me CRINGE when they repeat like parrots- NEVER FORGET

They should be saying that perhaps about February 26, 1993- MANY have forgotten about that and the fact that six people died and over one thousand people were injured. At the time I laughed when I heard that some terrorists were trying to destroy the World Trade Center. I thought (in 1993) that it was absurd.

Here is a video of that day on February 26, 1993.

I would not have minded being rescued by some of those good looking firemen.

I wasn't too affected by the 9/11 event but I was very depressed over the fact that we were going t o destroy a bunch of countries in revenge. The news media's 24/7 reminders and obsessive patriotic grandstanding about it for the next 10 years was very annoying.

Hearing and seeing the Young People’s Chorus perform The Star Spangled Banner in today’s remembrance ceremony was inspiring. And heartbreaking.

I notice that they never seem to want to talk about the Pentagon getting hit by a plane. Today's memorials are in NYC and PA and again absolutely zilch about the Pentagon. Sometimes I talk to people and they don't even remember it was hit by one of the planes.

R426 What did it inspire in you?

20 years later and it still feels surreal to me.

I am saddened on this date when I think about all of the innocent lives lost, but to me 9/11 mostly reminds me how dramatically this country changed.

We were so carefree and it seems like our innocence was taken from us that day. Maybe it was hubris, America the great and most powerful nation was taught a lesson that day.

What emerged was a crueler nation. I feel like this was the beginning of a very divisive split that occurred in our nation, people took sides and never looked back.

R430- WE WERE CAREFREE AND OUR INNOCENCE WAS TAKEN AWAY

I hope you're being sarcastic.

R143 Agree.

Also really paved the way for the racists (see earlier in this thread) to feel justified in hating anyone who is Muslim and to proudly declare it without any backlash for 20 years. To argue that all of Muslims hate white people, etc. is so stupid but racists cling to that idea as if it’s Ultimate Truth. Because people can’t …you know… practice a religion peacefully and non-radically? Guess we better start locking up white Christians before they terrorize. Wait, too late.

Muslims as a group are terrible for Western societies.

R428 In this divisive time, to have a diverse group of young people come together and sing so beautifully, was a signal that there is still hope for America.

I'm still upset that people with cultish tendencies were given this obscene excuse to conflate our country with a death cult sensibility. Yes.

Men with little hats as a group are terrible for Western societies.

[quote]o argue that all of Muslims hate white people, etc. is so stupid but racists

1. Muslims are not a race.

2. Muslims hate all Infidels, white, black, asian, hispanic. See open social conflict perpetrated by Muslims in non-Muslim countries.

[quote]Because people can’t …you know… practice a religion peacefully and non-radically?

I guess you missed all those "peaceful", "non-radical" Muslims who've been terrorizing and murdering Infidels across Europe, Asia and Africa for the last 40 years.

I guess you missed all those "peaceful", "non-radical" Muslims who were flying jets into buildings, murdering their co-workers, marathon participants, and 52 people in a gay nightclub. Or rampaging through the streets of LA and NYC screaming "Are you a Jew?" before attacking. Much like Muslims in a shopping center in Nairobi screaming "Are you a Muslim?" before murdering shoppers.

Biden left before GW Bush’s talk.

I thought Biden was in New York and Bush was in PA?

R437 Hold my beer while I get ready to share 1,000 cherry-picked examples of murderous Christians in the past 1,000 years, killing—yes—us gays, Jews, redheads, women accused of witchcraft, etc. But sure, cherry-pick a few anecdotes of radical fundamentalist Islam followers and try to convince us that EVERY Muslim is a scary terrorist!

Heck, I’ll pull out the oldest trope of we go by anecdotes only: I know folks who are Muslim and they are—gasp—normal, and dare I say, caring people!

It happened in the afternoon here in the UK, so I didn't hear about it until I got home from school. I can't imagine how insane it must have been to watch events unfold live.

So Jane, what can you tell us about the Salomon Brothers Building... which has collapsed!

R439 I am sure it was broadcasted live in New York, Rose.

So...the media was in on the conspiracy?

[quote]a few anecdotes of radical fundamentalist Islam followers and try to convince us that EVERY Muslim is a scary terrorist!

"Radical", like "fundamentalist" and "extremist" are Western-invented terms. For 1.7 billion Muslims, there is only Islam. There is no difference between Mohammed Atta, Omar Mateen, al Baghdadi, Ahunzada, Abedi, etc. They are all Muslims pursuing jihad against the Infidel.

You know very well that it's not "a few anecdotes" and has been happening and is happening NOW. It is on-going open conflict with both the West and non-Infidel East. Every other ethnicity and belief system has established a modus vivendi as minorities within the majority host culture. Muslims haven't and never will.

Muslims, as a group and a culture, have not changed since the 7th Century. They hate the West and want it torn down. This has happened over and over an over again throughout history and it is baffling how there are still so many naive and gullible Westerners.

You have posted nearly 50 times to this thread to say how all Muslims are the same and all hate Non-Muslims and want to kill them. We got your perspective, r445.

“Post 9/11, now, it’s, ‘Why would you even gravitate towards such a violent religion?’ Islam means peace itself. But we’re depicted as such violent people,” said Hasan.

He says the media hasn’t helped.

“You have all these different movies. You have the media depicting Muslims as terrorists. There wasn’t a whole lot of media coverage on any good deeds that a Muslim was doing,” said Hasan.

What a BARBARIAN!

R411 That woman was in shock and someone should have taken her hand and led her away from there. Hopefully, that happened.

R440) Have you asked your Muslim friends how they feel about gays? How they feel about the decapitation of gays? Burning gays up? Throwing them off of buildings? Sharia Law?

R427 That is interesting. Why do you think that is?

[quote]You have posted nearly 50 times to this thread

R447 I've posted TWICE. You're as ignorance about calculation as you are about Muslims.

I am more upset that the date of White Supremacist Terrorism is not as important.

April 19, 1995

Inside job. Execute the Bushes.

Sorry, should have attached this to ^^^

.

r453

R448 Muslim outraged at being stigmatized by Muslim terror. Would that he were as outraged about the victims of Muslim attacks and terror.

That LESBIAN from New Jersey- Christine Todd Whitman should be ARRESTED for telling everyone it was safe to live and work at/near the WTC site in the weeks after it was destroyed.

I was very upset about 9/11 yesterday because it took me 4 hours to get home because of all the fucking motorcades. Everyone and his half sister flew into town for the 20th anniversary festivities during fucking rush hour (what do they care, they sirens & police escorts) all while people were also headed to the Subway Series at Citifield & the US Open at Arthur Ashe Stadium. Talk about a clusterfuck.

No wonder the massive motorcades traffic…just found out there were THREE presidents at Ground Zero today. Plus Speaker of the House Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, assorted locals - mayor, deputy mayor, Governor, Lt Governor.

R458 Drop dead.

Same R403. I was 20 and I truly did vow never to forget. It was so horrific and I do think that was the day everything changed. I still remember the names of some the heroes from that day (I think I do, anyhow).

Nicole Miller - The girl around my age heading back home to CA. Sany Brandshaw - Flight attendant who boiled the water to throw in the terrorists face and used the cart as a barricade Todd "Let's roll" Biemer Of course I would remember the straight guys name and forget the name of the gay guy who was part of the cockpit takeover, but he was a major hero as well.

The plane may or may not have been shot down, but I choose to believe the heroic story. To me, it shows every days Americans at their bravest and best. That is how I will remember them.

I still get teary today. The Queen played our National Anthem today at Buckingham Palace during the changing of the guard. It made me sad. Our country feels much, much worse off since 9/11.

R450 and R452 My best friend is Muslim and has no problem with LGBT folks at all. Keep hate-mongering and using overgeneralization to make your xenophobic point though, since reality doesn’t fit your narrative of how terrible Muslims are! MARY!

Datalounge has always attracted a small set of racists and xenophobes. Look at all the threads about a black or Muslim person doing something vs a white or Christian person doing something.

And the terrible threads about Jews and gays, R463. Which I’m sure you gleefully participate in.

Why are gays so into Islam? Is it shame?

R430 The soul of the nation was taken that day. The new world of reality television, American Idol, social media was ushered in, and it has remained this way ever since. We talk about how we need to be united again as we were on that day. Never gonna happen as long as strangers enrage themselves arguing with one another on the internet day in and day out. Humanity needs a reset. I miss a lot about how the world was before that day.

R466- THE SOUL OF THE NATION WAS TAKEN THAT DAY-please refrain from any more CORNY platitudes.

Humanity was not unsullied before 9/11. We were no strangers to imperialism, genocide, or nuclear bombs. There were right wing leaders and the military industrial complex before the towers were built. It was a monumental event, but please.

[quote]Why are gays so into Islam? Is it shame?

I'm hoping they're just trolls. I've never known any gay people IRL who are fans of Islam.

R469) I have several friends that would defend them to their dying day. I do not get it.

Who do you think you are kidding, r470. You dont have friends.

The focus was on the WTC, no one else was in danger. Of course like a smart criminal (arsonist, etc.) they committed similar crimes to muddy the waters (Pennsylvania crash, Pentagon bomb). But George Bush's brother was involved with the WTC the year before for a reason: they needed those two buildings to come down.

…and this thread slowly descends into muck.

Never Forget is important because terrorist forces are planning strikes every minute of the day. They're clever, inventive and patient.

This excellent documentary series available on Amazon Prime follows the complex lead up to 9/11.

R461 I would love to see the queen play our national anthem!

Another Pearl Harbor?

I watched some of the coverage and whenever George W. Bush appeared I still had a visceral reaction of disdain. Even after all these years, I still can't stand the sight of him.

I went back to my old neighborhood after I moved away years ago to another state. Just doing a drive through, nostalgic visit. Saw my neighbor from across the street who had two sons, my brother used to play with them every day. I went to say hello. He told me his oldest boy, Steve, worked in the WTC. He happened to call in sick that morning, to play hooky really, he never did before. Called in sick THAT morning.

This was a few years later but you could see the look in his fathers eyes, that he was grateful for his son's life being spared. His sons whole company died in 9/11. The office was way up top.

What I don’t think I will ever lose is memory of the feelings as it unfolded. There had been an incident with a prop plane previously, so a lot of people’s minds went to that. When the second place crashed, you could feel everyone realize how intentional it was. It didn’t take long to realize that the attack was on every American. There’s not a lot of ambiguity about that.

It was a rare time when, for a while, all divides were gone. They came back quickly and were probably worse, but there was a short moment where everyone was speechless and scared and humbled.

Bush, Cheney and the rest of that asshole administration thoroughly squandered the goodwill from across the world.

As evil as they were, if the terrorists wanted to be real assholes about it they could have hijacked airplanes in Chicago, LA and Atlanta and flown them in their respective tallest buildings.

Or they could have flown them in after 10 AM or included the Empire State too.

R481, I’m not sure if you were around then, but people feared exactly that. I have intelligent Philly friends who were genuinely freaked about the Liberty Bell. Even downtown Minneapolis believed it would be targeted.

In June 1979 when I was 13 years old, I went with two friends to the top of the World Trade Center. The elevator ride was about one and a half minutes. It was thrilling at the time. I was more impressed with the observation deck at the WTC than the one at the Empire State building which I saw two months later.

We were SO young to travel all the way into the city from Westchester and down to the WTC on our own.

What happened to terrorists and suicide bombers? Are we to believe that Homeland Security was created to squelch all that? Night and day preventing planes and buildings from tumbling to earth?

If you really wanted to do damage (for what I don't know- Allah?) you could tuck a bomb up your ass and get on a 747. The TSA fail tests all the time.

It just didn't happen. Suicide bombers are too rare to even mention. Let alone 20 hijackers. It never happened.

What I don't understand is why conspiracy theorists insist the towers couldn't have collapsed the way they did. Surely the "pancake" collapse was inevitable due the structural damage? Once one floor caved in, the next was certain to cave in as well, and the next, and the next...

R480

And see who his other friends are.

R431 Not a drop of sarcasm in my post, I meant every word.

Remember what flying was like before 9/11/2001?

If you remember then you understand my post.

#485, from the link at #476:

"For one thing critics say that no steel building has ever collapsed due to fires. Buildings are severely damaged with massive and prolonged fires but never collapse in the manner that the Twin Towers did. Indeed hydrocarbon fires normally generate a maximum temperature of 1700 degrees Fahrenheit whereas a temperature of 2770 is required to melt steel."

R488, i want to smoke what you’re smoking.

I wonder how the other giant American buildings standing on that day would have fared if that had happened to them. How would have the human scale of the tragedy be different or similar?

Buildings like the Sears Tower (Chicago), Empire State, Bank of America Plaza (Atlanta), US Bank Tower (Los Angeles), etc.

In all the footage of the World Trade Center that day, the bodies are never shown. The streets were littered with bodies and body parts but those images are always censored, I don't think anyone has ever seen them.

Can anyone tell me what actually was the true story of Todd Beamer? From the time I remember let’s roll (and of course let’s roll cinnamon roll) but now there is an elaborate transcript f his supposed call circling around that sounds completely fake. Whatever happened was enough, but now we have to hallmark channel it apparently.

R321, r322, r325, Here's your question, and it is the Universally Useful Query, to wit:

Cui bono?

R348

Sept 11, 1683?

r495 it's the date of the Ottoman defeat at the walls of Vienna, halting Muslim expansion into Europe.

R496 Thank you.

You are all a bunch of towel head, sand niggers.

R493, it appears that it was fake. I tried to find it but couldn’t anywhere, and noticed that Twitter removed a tweet that supposedly posted it. People referenced in follow up comments how annoyed they were to be taken in by the ruse.

I was living in Atlanta on 9/11. There was a news report a day or so later that said one of the hijackers had been scouting possible locations there. Don't know how true that was but it freaked me out.

Because everyone had to be a part of 9/11, R500. Everybody had to think somehow they were in danger from terrorists because the Hollywood sign, or a bell, or the local airport in Midlandia, or a random oil well or Paul Bunyan’s statue was luring terrorists at that very moment.

Didn’t freak me out. After a couple of hours or so, I realized that my city wasn’t in any real danger. I felt bad for the dead and injured. There was nothing else to do.

I do find the grief porn a tad excessive, however. I recall discussing it with a college history professor drinking buddy of mine and he compared the public’s reaction to the terrorist attacks to the sinking of the Titanic. It had a similar effect on people, he said.

Terrorism can happen anywhere. Remember Eric Robert Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh.

An article to support my friend’s theory.

I'm angry that all the spin about 9/11 didn't make us any more empathetic towards countries that have a 9/11 event constantly.

In Iraq and Afghanistan, for example, American military intrusion cost nearly a million lives.

No wonder they hate us,

R504 here. My apologies for the article. Not really supportive of the comparison.

R500: there were 2 of them, Atta, I believe, and his younger sidekick. They had gym memberships at a small gym in Decatur, close to downtown, on the west side of Church Street. They used computers to send emails at a Kinko's (now owned by FedEx) at the intersection of N. Decatur Road and Clairmont (which the FBI soon showed up at, and removed all of the computers), and they took flying lessons at the North DeKalb Airport, and are known to have made some kind of reconnaissance test-flights scouting the many buildings of the CDC on Clifton and near Clairmont, also Decatur.

Thanks for the info, R507. I am beginning to remember why it freaked me out. That was my area of Atlanta. I wonder if I ever crossed paths with them.

R492 TG. That's something I NEVER want to see.

Aw, r502/r504/r506, that was an interesting article at r504. My reaction to 9/11 was similar to yours at r502. Terrible tragedy, not much to be done.

The first person you see in this video, BOATLIFT, is Captain Vincent R. Ardolino. I used to fish with him. I was out fishing in NYC waters on 9/11. I watched the towers fall from across those waters. I will not waste one minute watching grief porn.

Half a million people were rescued from Manhattan by party boats, fishing boats, tug boats and ferries in only a few hours.

The boat-lift documentary, and the hospitality of Gander, are the two best stories to come of out of 9/11.

It was the largest water evacuation in history, larger than Dunkirk during WWII.

I'm still angry at Mark Walhberg's crude comments. What a dick.

^^ The Orange Turd's comments on 9/11 are even more disgusting. Bragging that he now owned the tallest building in Manhattan. Why didn't he get dragged for that?! Where was the "Blue Line" on that one??!

[quote]the elevators weren't working

r14 Chief Orio Palmer with the FDNY single-handedly fixed one of the elevators. That man was a true hero. Full stop.

I've finally been able to read the whole thread. Thanks for the links to videos.

I was downtown when it happened. I worked at 7 Hanover Sq on the 7th floor. I saw the fireball from the second plane. One of the secretaries was married to a Port Authority officer; he called and told her what happened after the 1st plane and she shared it with us.

I remember being in the conference room when the first tower fell. It shook our building. Full sheets of paper were flying by the windows and then it got completely dark. Once Rudy called for evacuation of the southern tip of NYC, we had to leave. I was able to get on a NY Waterway ferry over to Hoboken. We were greeted by a Fire Truck and hosed down. Unfortunately they'd run out of towers so we were just drenched. A local hospital set up an area where we had to provide our names, addresses, etc. and our BP was recorded. I got on a train to the Dover Train Station. All trains were local so the trip took about 2 hours. I didn't call my family members until the train pulled out of Hoboken station. I wanted to make sure I was SAFE safe.

When I gto to Dover, the military from Picatinny Arsenal were there and took our personal information. They also wanted to hose us down but I was still soaked and told the workers I had been hosed down in Hoboken before boarding the train. I got home and took a long, hot shower. Then I watched the news non-stop. I hadn't had a chance to see what I'd been through. I sobbed for about 2 hours. It was the first time I ever drank 2 bottles of wine in one night.

I avoid the commemoration ceremonies. A coworker had left my company and gone to work for Aon. The Friday before, we'd seen each other in the PATH station and made plans to have dinner one night at Carmine's. His name has never been announced but no one has heard from after the Towers went down.

[quote]His name has never been announced but no one has heard from after the Towers went down.

You mean he was never recorded as one of the victims?

To this day, low flying planes in the sky still make me very anxious.

Yes, R517. The first 2 or 3 years, I listened to the names all the way through. His name has never been announced. During the 3 years I continued to work for that company after 2001, people who knew him said they had not heard from him. I've always wondered about him. When he worked for us, he was a person who was in the office early and left late. There's a pretty good chance he was in one of the Towers when they were hit/collapsed.

Why does everyone still need to explain where they were and what they were doing during the attack?

R519, there are a significant number of people who were never seen after 9/11 but we're supposed to be by the Twin Towers that morning. A distant acquaintance's wife is one of those cases. She was out shopping in Manhattan, but her husband didn't know where. He looked for her desperately after 9/11 for months but she was never found. The assumption is that she must have been at the WTC mall in the basement of the buildings, but no one knows for sure.

R521 and R516: I forget the exact number but there’s something like 700 people who they never found any remains of but they’re presumed dead and on official lists of those who died. Have you checked if the people you knew/knew of are on one of the online official lists of the dead? (Not just their name being read out at the ceremonies each year R516). Seems really odd they’d still just be considered missing after 20 years, especially if they were known to be in Manhattan that day, nevermind working/visiting the WTC.

Building 7 did not fall due to fire. So what are we to believe about the others?

"In Plane Site" documentary.

R492 American broadcaster pulled back fairly quickly after getting grisly details from reporters on scene. Foreign broadcasts didn't at first. I was watching in Canada on 9/11 and I vividly remember seeing people sticking out of the window in the north tower and the camera eventually cutting away when it caught someone jumping. There is a ton of footage and photos of the carnage in existence (some of which is supposedly on the internet) but out of respect for the families it will never be shown.

R521 A number of people died in area of the WTC of 9/11 but basically the official lists only include people who were known to work in the towers (or 100% known to be there that day), the pentagon, the people on the planes, and first responders. Some people who were killed in the streets were never officially listed. Also I've read eyewitness accounts that claim several people died of heart attacks while running in the streets and they were likely not included.

Painful Deceptions

[quote] There is a ton of footage and photos of the carnage in existence (some of which is supposedly on the internet) but out of respect for the families it will never be shown.

It will eventually, but perhaps not in our lifetimes. It will be when 9/11 is an historical event.

Hey batshit lunatic conspiracy nut - post your shit youtube links somewhere else. Asshole.

Can you imagine the kind of footage we would have seen if Smartphones and social media had been around back then? Holy shit.

R527 Yup, most likely around the 100th anniversary or something.

As for conspiracy nuts, I kind of understand why they exist. It's hard to believe that the most powerful nation on Earth with all it's resources could make enough mistakes that these attacks went off with almost no hitches.

There were so many red flags, in retrospect how could the government and law enforcement not see them? And not just in the US but in Germany as well. Several of the terrorists lived there before coming to the US and they were involved in sketchy things.

Hopefully everybody is a lot smarter now and more aware.

R531 Given how easily the Capital Building was breached back in January apparently not as smart as they ought to be.

#528 has posted 72 times on this thread, and 28 times on the Jumpers thread. She appears to have been dispatched by Cheney himself.

r533 there's no limit to posting. And no, I have no love for Cheney or Republicans. I'm just a rational person and not a batshit gullible moron who believes in conspiracy horseshit.

Now go back to reading about how explosives were smuggled into the Twin Towers and it was a controlled demolition 🙄

Also there would have been some 'illegals' working in the towers and they have never been reported because the families feared deportation.

There was a Farmers' Market around the base of the Towers every Tuesday. I used to come up from the PATH station and buy a banana nut mini-loaf muffin every Tuesday. I didn't stop that day but I wouldn't have been caught by the debris after the first plane. I was generally in the office by 7:45 am.

There is some footage of that farmers market stalls abandoned on 9/11 before the towers collapsed.

[quote] There was a Farmers' Market around the base of the Towers every Tuesday. I used to come up from the PATH station and buy a banana nut mini-loaf muffin every Tuesday. I didn't stop that day but I wouldn't have been caught by the debris after the first plane. I was generally in the office by 7:45 am.

Well, isn't the world lucky...

I'm over the constant wailing about 9/11 without even a shred of empathy for the nearly 1 million people dead American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan caused.

Totally R539. The lack of regard for Iraqi and Afghani lves is sickening.

Gay men LOVE the Middle East. Send them ALL there.

Did someone say nutloaf?..

Some experts say the fine dust and resulting dust clouds do not resemble the debris of a collapse, but of explosions (thermite?) that pulverized everything- including bodies- all the way down.

Just kill yourself r543.

I don't think about it. Even though I was born & raised in NYC

I leave all the worrying and carrying on to the people who have never been to the World Trade Center or even to NYC for that matter

It really screwed up this guy's life. His mom seems MIA, letting her kid go down a rabbit hole of despair.