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Pfizer vaccine recipients seven times more likely to get symptomatic Delta than recoverers - Israeli data

Bloomberg reports that early data from Israel shows that people who recovered from Covid may face a significantly lower risk from the Delta Covid variant than those fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.

The groundbreaking findings – which could influence public health policies around the globe – from the largest real-world study comparing natural immunity gained from earlier infection with the protection provided by one of the most effective jabs showed that reinfections were much less common among those who had caught Covid.

The data, posted as a preprint article on medRxiv, has not yet been reviewed by other researchers, and therefore should be treated with some caution. The results contrast with earlier studies suggesting immunisation offered better protection than prior infection, though those studies did not assess the Delta variant, Bloomberg reported.

However, the results were stark. People given both doses of Pfizer-BioNTech were almost six times more likely to contract Delta and seven-fold more likely to have symptomatic disease than those who had previously recovered.

“This analysis demonstrated that natural immunity affords longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalisation due to the delta variant,” the researchers said.

Protection from an earlier infection also wanes significantly with time, the analysis suggested.

The study will raise serious questions over the decision of the US Food and Drug Administration to award the Pfizer jab full approval this week.

It comes after a Science Magazine report last week suggested breakthrough infections were far more common than the term suggests, with 60% of hospitalised patients with Covid in Israel fully vaccinated despite 78% of those 12 and older in the country being fully vaccinated.

The sheer number of vaccinated Israelis means some breakthrough infections were inevitable, and the unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die. But Israel’s experience is forcing the booster issue on to the radar for other nations, suggesting as it does that even the best vaccinated countries will face a Delta surge.

Now, the effects of waning immunity may be beginning to show in Israelis vaccinated in early winter; a preprint published last month by physician Tal Patalon and colleagues at KSM, the research arm of MHS, found that protection from Covid-19 infection during June and July dropped in proportion to the length of time since an individual was vaccinated. People vaccinated in January had a 2.26 times greater risk for a breakthrough infection than those vaccinated in April. (Potential confounders include the fact that the very oldest Israelis, with the weakest immune systems, were vaccinated first.

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by Anonymousreply 113November 1, 2021 12:59 AM


by Anonymousreply 1August 27, 2021 8:07 PM

I guess Israel must be a MAGA territory, Bloomberg and The Guardian are trash KKK rags and Science is a trick only Trumpers use. Not a good look to continue claiming Truth and Facts are the domain of Donald Trump.

by Anonymousreply 2August 27, 2021 8:13 PM

If only it wasn't for that pesky risk of dying.

by Anonymousreply 3August 27, 2021 8:20 PM

The data, posted as a preprint article on medRxiv, has not yet been reviewed by other researchers, and therefore should be treated with some caution.

by Anonymousreply 4August 27, 2021 8:26 PM

On the other hand:

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by Anonymousreply 5August 27, 2021 8:27 PM

Due my second dose tomorrow. Great timing....-_-

by Anonymousreply 6August 27, 2021 8:28 PM

Time for your horse deworming enema, OP.

Meanwhile, back here in reality:

[quote]The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death. And they caution that intentional infection among unvaccinated people would be extremely risky. “What we don’t want people to say is: ‘All right, I should go out and get infected, I should have an infection party.’” says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at Rockefeller University who researches the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and was not involved in the study. “Because somebody could die.”

[quote]The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and then received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. The new work could inform discussion of whether previously infected people need to receive both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or the similar mRNA vaccine from Moderna. Vaccine mandates don’t necessarily exempt those who had a SARS-CoV-2 infection already and the current U.S. recommendation is that they be fully vaccinated, which means two mRNA doses or one of the J&J adenovirus-based vaccine. Yet one mRNA dose might be enough, some scientists argue. And other countries including Germany, France, Italy, and Israel administer just one vaccine dose to previously infected people.

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by Anonymousreply 7August 27, 2021 8:31 PM

r7 thinks Israel is imaginary. Let that sink in.

by Anonymousreply 8August 27, 2021 8:33 PM

[quote][R7] thinks Israel is imaginary. Let that sink in.

Drink bleach, bitch.

by Anonymousreply 9August 27, 2021 8:34 PM

Don't mind it. This troll has over 50 responses the Mighty Joe Biden thread. It's obsessed with spreading Q "facts" and talking points

by Anonymousreply 10August 27, 2021 8:35 PM

People who distribute COVID disinformation should be forced to dig mass graves at gunpoint.

by Anonymousreply 11August 27, 2021 8:48 PM

Quote R2:. " If only it wasn't for that pesky risk of dying."

—4.5+ Million Dead Thread closed.

by Anonymousreply 12August 27, 2021 8:52 PM

Well...duh. The vaccine only builds immunity to a [italic]portion[/italic] of the virus (the S-protein and its RBD). Whereas one who has recovered from the disease will have neutralizing antibodies to the entirety of the virus and all of its proteins (nucleocapsid, membrane, and envelope).

This was known a while ago. I have no idea why they're just now saying som...oh wait, yes I do. Never mind. Just keep watching the news and do what they tell you. -_-

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by Anonymousreply 13August 27, 2021 9:51 PM

Informed consent is important. Get it if you want, but for godsake make sure you're getting all of the data that you need to make an informed decision. There's nothing wrong with that. Both benefits AND risks should be well known before deciding to take any medication. Especially if it's new.

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by Anonymousreply 14August 27, 2021 10:00 PM

R14🤔some good points. I didn’t know that the FDA ‘Approval’ was in fact just extended ‘Emergency Use’, or that former FDA chairs now sit as heads of Pfizer & Moderna.

May skip my second dose appointment tomorrow...

by Anonymousreply 15August 27, 2021 11:37 PM
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by Anonymousreply 16August 28, 2021 12:01 AM

I got my third shot last weekend. Not waiting for the government to decide for me.

by Anonymousreply 17August 28, 2021 12:06 AM

R15, can I have your stuff?

by Anonymousreply 18August 28, 2021 12:14 AM

The top scientists in the world still don't know all there is to know about COVID. Now THAT is scary.

by Anonymousreply 19August 28, 2021 12:46 AM

If you've been vaccinated and had a breakthrough case of Delta, how likely is it that you'll get Delta again? I've googled the answer but I couldn't find it... maybe someone here knows.

by Anonymousreply 20August 28, 2021 12:49 AM

This one hit wonder from the 80s might be up DL's alley. I think it was in The Player (or maybe I'm just imagining that). It was the go-to karaoke song forever in Japan. It's very pretty.

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by Anonymousreply 21August 28, 2021 12:51 AM

[quote] suggests, with 60% of hospitalised patients with Covid in Israel fully vaccinated

Well that’s not shocking if 78% of the population is vaccinated. After all, people extremely at risk are more likely to get covid even if vaccinated than those who are healthier and vaccinated.

Also the study doesn’t say how many are actually vaccinated.

by Anonymousreply 22August 28, 2021 12:56 AM

Ooops wrong thread!

by Anonymousreply 23August 28, 2021 12:56 AM

r17, wow are you a stooge

by Anonymousreply 24August 28, 2021 4:22 AM

R7 it is in a way. Israel was created artificially out of evangelical zealotry. Israeli had to occupy ( read: steal) Palestinian home little by little to define their territory. This Israeli construct will cease to exist without USA and EU backing.

by Anonymousreply 25August 28, 2021 5:50 AM

This thread is important evidence of the need for thorough sex ed.

Many of these posts could have been prevented by a well-timed blow job or two many years ago.

by Anonymousreply 26August 28, 2021 6:00 AM

[quote]The top scientists in the world still don't know all there is to know about COVID. Now THAT is scary.

Not in the least. The “top scientists in the world” still don’t know even half of what there is to know about the functioning of the human body itself, after hundreds of years of rigorous scientific research and analysis.

by Anonymousreply 27August 28, 2021 6:12 AM

R25 Ismail Haniyeh logs in from his Hamas bunker under a hospital.

by Anonymousreply 28August 28, 2021 6:14 AM

Symptomatic includes a range from mild to death. Which is it OP?

by Anonymousreply 29August 28, 2021 6:25 AM

r29, try reading the article.

by Anonymousreply 30August 28, 2021 7:08 AM

R26 No, this thread is important evidence of the need for thorough statistics and probability ed.

by Anonymousreply 31August 28, 2021 7:10 AM

At the end of the day, the AstraZeneca vaccine is the best when it's used in a cocktail vaccination. OMG!

by Anonymousreply 32August 28, 2021 7:13 AM

"“This analysis demonstrated that natural immunity affords longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalisation due to the delta variant,” the researchers said. "


by Anonymousreply 33August 28, 2021 7:16 AM

r33, you mean humans have their own immune systems that don't have to be purchased from pharmaceutical companies?

by Anonymousreply 34August 28, 2021 7:27 AM

r15 Well, it's approved, now. At least the Pfizer one is. And they're technically still in Phase III clinical trials; part of which involves follow-up of trial participants for up to 2 years. It's also concerning to me because previous vaccines that focused on the full-length spike protein of the virus had some...issues.

To keep this simple, there is a section on the spike protein known as the immunodominant site or IDS. In previously vaccine development attempts, they found that the antibodies that were produced for the IDS weren't neutralizing antibodies meaning, they didn't stop the virus. Then there were issues with certain antibodies it produced causing antibody dependent enhancement which basically means the antibodies the S-protein vaccines produced in the immunized animals made the virus MORE transmissible and illness MORE severe. The same is true of some antibodies produced by natural immunity. It's because of this that it was always a "maybe we shouldn't use the entire S-protein" consensus amongst vaccine developers.

And yet, there's Pfizer's BNT162b2 vaccine that uses the full-length spike protein. What makes this worse is that one of the vaccine candidates actually only used the RBD (receptor binding domain) of the spike protein which is crucial to stopping viral entry into host cells (the virus enters through the ACE2 receptor of the host cell via the RBD of the S-protein). It was labeled BNT162b1. They, instead, chose to go with the riskier candidate that uses the full-length spike protein. For...reasons. -_-

You can see what the results were for using the entire S-protein to develop a vaccine using the original SARS strain all the way back in 2005:

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by Anonymousreply 35August 28, 2021 7:55 AM

r35, what makes it worse is that they and Moderna both destroyed their control groups by telling the placebo subjects they'd gotten the placebo and injecting most of them with the experimental vaccine. So, these aren't studies anymore. It's not science. They would have to start all over today and follow procedure for any of the data to be at all valid.

by Anonymousreply 36August 28, 2021 7:57 AM

R30, it does not say what percentage or number ended up in the hospital as opposed to mild symptoms. One also needs actual numbers here not just percentages. Small numbers would indicate less need for cincrrn. But we need access to the full study to evaluate its meaning.

Both the media, with the need for clicks, and the right wing, are using badly reported Studies to increase distrust of vaccinations. I realize that's a left wing paper but it wants eyeballs on the page above all.

by Anonymousreply 37August 28, 2021 8:00 AM

r37, in Israel over 60% of the people in hospitals suffering from severe illness are vaccinated. The paper they put out a few days ago indicates that ADE is a factor in the severity of illness in those who took the shots.

by Anonymousreply 38August 28, 2021 8:10 AM

R38, what are the numbers, not percentages. And if you have a high percentage vaccinated in the overall population the percentage hospitalized will go up. For instance if 100% are vaccinated then of those hospitalized 100% will be vaccinated. This is why we need numbers. Another percentage however is what percentage of vaccinated end up hospitalized.

This particular pattern of reporting particular statistics especially percentages out of context is now the standard tool of anti- vaxer trolls.

Also cite study.

by Anonymousreply 39August 28, 2021 8:22 AM

Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows

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by Anonymousreply 40August 28, 2021 8:22 AM

Israeli data: How can efficacy vs. severe disease be strong when 60% of hospitalized are vaccinated?

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by Anonymousreply 41August 28, 2021 8:24 AM

r38 Couple that with the fact that it has been proven that protection from vaccination wanes over time (less than 3 months post-inoculation it seems) and when you take into account that the first round of vaccines went to the vulnerable and healthcare workers, you now have vulnerable vaccinated people at an even [italic]higher[/italic] risk of severe illness due to ADE (antibody dependent enhancement). And the vaccinated healthcare workers caring for them are now not only at risk of severe illness but also higher risk of transmitting amongst themselves and spreading it out to the rest of the population since they'll be around these infected, vaccinated, people 24/7.

I think the CDC telling vaccinated people that they could unmask, travel, and not worry about social distancing was done too soon (which is why they withdrew the guidelines less than a month later). Vaccinated people have been walking around thinking they're protected when in reality, they could be putting themselves and others at more risk.

You can't convince me that after 18 years of studying SARS coronaviruses these clowns (the CDC) didn't know this shit. This is what happens when you mix science with politics. They tried to treat the vaccine push like a political campaign and now we're all having to suffer the consequences of their incompetence.

by Anonymousreply 42August 28, 2021 8:26 AM

r39 - "Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus. An average of nearly 7,500 people are infected per day - double the infection rate of two weeks ago." "Nearly 80% of Israeli adults are fully vaccinated against COVID-19, which constitutes 58% of the country's relatively young population, according to NPR."

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by Anonymousreply 43August 28, 2021 8:26 AM

The Isreal data articles argue for boosters. You are arguing against getting the vaccine at all. Boosters are not great but vaccination still provides the best protection.

by Anonymousreply 44August 28, 2021 8:32 AM

r43 This is why I'm glad I work from home, never go anywhere, and stay away from people. I've always been a homebody and a germaphobe so this social distancing mess doesn't bother me at all.

What does bother me is how politicized this virus has gotten and how people are shutting down needed discussions about possible negatives of the vaccines with dismissive buzzwords like "anti-vaxxer." Like...grow up. Are you incapable of having a conversation that challenges your ideas and positions in any way, shape, or form? If so, then you can't say you trust science, because that's constantly taking place. You're always questioning and searching. As you should.

The last time I was shut down this hard for scientific discussion was at my Bible-thumping Baptist elementary school when I dared to challenge their views on creationism vs evolution.

This is becoming religion for a lot of people. Very odd.

by Anonymousreply 45August 28, 2021 8:34 AM

r44, the data doesn't argue that, the politics and financial obligations argue that. A "vaccine" whose efficacy only stays above 50% for 3 months is, by the FDA's own standards, not a vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 46August 28, 2021 8:34 AM

[quote]The Isreal data articles argue for boosters.

Currently, in Israel, boosters are recommended ONLY for those with immune system compromising illnesses, such as HIV or cancer. If you're healthy, the medical community recommends that you skip the booster.

by Anonymousreply 47August 28, 2021 8:38 AM

DL refuses to allow me to post the link to this article. The site is pharmaceutical-technology dot com.

Pfizer accused of ‘bullying’ Latin American countries during vaccine negotiations

Latin American countries have accused Pfizer of ‘high-level bullying’ during Covid-19 vaccine negotiations, according to a report by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism published in partnership with STAT.

Government officials from Argentina and another Latin American country, which has signed a confidentiality agreement with Pfizer and so cannot be named, told the Bureau that Pfizer demanded additional indemnity against civil lawsuits citizens might file in relation to Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine.

Pfizer reportedly asked governments in Argentina and Brazil to put up sovereign assets, including military bases and federal bank reserves, as collateral for potential future legal costs.

Although most countries have offered indemnity to vaccine manufacturers in the pandemic, these Latin American government officials felt Pfizer’s demands went beyond those of other companies or the COVAX facility.

According to government officials in Argentina and the unnamed country, Pfizer asked for liability protection not only against civil claims from citizens who suffer serious adverse events after being vaccinated, but also for cases brought due to Pfizer’s own negligence, fraud or malice. Documents from Brazil’s Ministry of Health suggest that Pfizer made similar demands of the Brazilian government.

As a result of these demands, neither Argentina nor Brazil signed a vaccine supply deal with Pfizer. The other unnamed country eventually came to an agreement with Pfizer, but with a three-month delay, to the detriment of the government’s ability to get on top of the Covid-19 crisis.

World Health Organization (WHO) Center on National and Global Health Law director Professor Lawrence Gostin told the Bureau: “Pharmaceutical companies shouldn’t be using their power to limit life-saving vaccines in low and middle-income countries. [This] seems to be exactly what they’re doing.

“Some liability protection is warranted, but certainly not for fraud, gross negligence, mismanagement, failure to follow good manufacturing practices. Companies have no right to ask for indemnity for these things.”

by Anonymousreply 48August 28, 2021 8:49 AM

In an emailed statement to Pharmaceutical Technology, Pfizer said itself and BioNTech, with which it developed the Covid-19 vaccine, “are firmly committed to working with governments and other relevant stakeholders to ensure equitable and affordable access to our COVID-19 vaccine for people around the world.”

“Globally, we have also allocated doses to low- and lower-middle-income countries at a not-for-profit price, including an advance purchase agreement with COVAX to provide up to 40 million doses in 2021.

“Since the beginning of our vaccine development program, we have been in talks with more than 100 countries and supranational organizations, including in Latin America, regarding the supply of our Covid-19 vaccine. We are committed to supporting efforts aimed at providing developing countries with the same access to vaccines as the rest of the world.

“We will not comment on ongoing negotiations, which are private and confidential.”

Pfizer has signed vaccine supply agreements with nine Latin American and Caribbean countries to date: Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Mexico, Panama, Peru and Uruguay.

These revelations occur in the context of richer countries being criticised for inequitably hoarding available Covid-19 vaccine doses at the expense of poorer developing countries. WHO director-general Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has declared the world to be “on the brink of a catastrophic moral failure” due to the stark inequity in access to Covid-19 vaccines.

Vaccine companies have also faced criticism for focusing on bilateral negotiations with richer countries, rather than on signing deals with the COVAX Facility, the equitable Covid-19 vaccine access programme run by the WHO, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations and Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance.

Some healthcare charities have called for companies to share intellectual property and technical know-how to allow Covid-19 vaccines to be developed by other manufacturers across the world.

Latin America has been hit extremely hard by the Covid-19 pandemic. Brazil has the third-highest number of cases worldwide and the second-largest number of deaths in the world, according to the John Hopkins University coronavirus resource center. Access to safe and effective vaccines in the region would be invaluable for turning the tide of the region’s Covid-19 crisis.

The company’s Covid-19 vaccine, which was developed with BioNTech, was approved by the WHO for use globally on 31 December 2020.

by Anonymousreply 49August 28, 2021 8:49 AM

Look at the links being cited on this thread.

"pharmaceutical-technology dot com."



NONE are reputable sources — they're all anti-vax sockpuppets.

by Anonymousreply 50August 28, 2021 9:07 AM

F&F this anti-vax thread.

by Anonymousreply 51August 28, 2021 9:07 AM

[quote]they're all anti-vax sockpuppets.

Quoting from the CIO of Israel's largest health fund, Clalit, is not within the realm of "sock puppet".

R50 A source that does not reinforce your peculiar worldview does not automatically make that source untrustworthy.

by Anonymousreply 52August 28, 2021 9:16 AM

r48 What? You mean the same pharmaceutical company that paid billions in a settlement for fraudulent marketing amongst other shady shit was, once again, caught doing...[italic]shady shit[/italic]? Can't be!

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by Anonymousreply 53August 28, 2021 11:06 AM

OP is the guy posting on other vaccine threads that the vaccine causes "leaky auto-immune disorders."

by Anonymousreply 54August 28, 2021 11:08 AM

r54 I'm not OP, but:

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by Anonymousreply 55August 28, 2021 11:14 AM


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by Anonymousreply 56August 28, 2021 11:15 AM


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by Anonymousreply 57August 28, 2021 11:15 AM

And finally:

Happy reading.

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by Anonymousreply 58August 28, 2021 11:16 AM

[quote] Without treatment, approximately 40% to 50% of the individuals with severe disease will die within 6 months to 5 years. Treatment with steroids has dramatically changed the course of the disease. Most patients respond to therapy and the 10-year survival rate is approximately 83.8% to 94%.

Fuck me.

by Anonymousreply 59August 28, 2021 11:58 AM

I don’t understand how people have become so impossibly stupid that they think Big Pharma or anyone working on their behalf are looking out for the health of any population. It’s maddening.

by Anonymousreply 60August 28, 2021 6:23 PM

I can hardly fathom it either, r60. It's certainly exasperating.

by Anonymousreply 61August 28, 2021 8:25 PM

R60 & R61 demand that you stop taking PrEP, AIDS drugs, blood pressure pills, anti-anxiety medication et al RIGHT NOW!

by Anonymousreply 62August 28, 2021 9:30 PM

r62 Wtf even is this reply? You don't know their medical history or what medications, if any, they are taking. The assumption that they have AIDS is particularly gross, as well. Fuck's wrong with you?

by Anonymousreply 63August 28, 2021 10:48 PM

R61, I think there are more Phramacrat bots on this site than actual human users.

by Anonymousreply 64August 28, 2021 10:50 PM

r64 It's funny you would mention bots.

I've got my own working conspiracy theory that bots have been infiltrating sites frequented by marginalized groups and conducting social engineering attacks to get us to comply with doing something that will actually be more harmful to us.

Considering the looming conspiracy theories surrounding HIV being purposely released by the CIA to attack the gay community, I wouldn't be surprised. Marginalized groups are told repeatedly that the government is not our friend and should never be trusted to have our best interest at heart. But all of a sudden that's no longer the case? Really?

by Anonymousreply 65August 28, 2021 10:57 PM

Interesting read

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by Anonymousreply 66August 28, 2021 11:00 PM

R65, Intelligence has been infiltrating “counter culture” groups since the beginning. The Black Panthers, the Hippy Movement, 3rd Wave Feminism, Fauci inserting himself into the AIDS crisis, Trans Ideology genociding gays and lesbians, etc. What amazes me most, I guess, is that people who used to have their heads screwed on, now believe anything the TV tells them.

by Anonymousreply 67August 28, 2021 11:06 PM

Strange situation. You'd expect Pfizer to be defending its original two-shot product but no, there's so much money in selling a booster shot that the company jumps on every study showing declining effectiveness. A little scepticism seems called for.

by Anonymousreply 68August 28, 2021 11:21 PM

R68, given the deals they’ve strongarmed with governments around the globe, they have no need to defend their product, only continue to propagandize it as the only solution.

by Anonymousreply 69August 28, 2021 11:42 PM

[quote]now believe anything the TV tells them.

r67 I don't even think it's that, anymore. I think people are just believing whatever confirms their own personal biases, at this point. Because, thus far, the "tv people" have said the following:

* The vaccinated can still get infected. * The vaccinated carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated. * The vaccinated can still transmit the virus to others. * Vaccination protection wanes faster than natural protection (cases of hospitalization for the vaccinated are higher for those who were vaccinated earlier during the roll out; which started barely even 10 months ago) * The vaccinated still need to wear masks and social distance. * The virus can still replicate and mutate in a vaccinated person which is actually more likely to create vaccine-resistant variants because...natural selection.

A thinking person would look at all of this and have a lot of questions. Not be quick to shut-down conversation.

by Anonymousreply 70August 28, 2021 11:56 PM

R70, so, some people have just checked out of reality completely or were they always checked out, but reality conformed more to what they wanted to be true?

by Anonymousreply 71August 29, 2021 12:05 AM

R69 Moderna is the alternative solution. For all practical purposes the two vaccines seem equivalent. But only Pfizer is really beating the drum for boosters.

by Anonymousreply 72August 29, 2021 12:13 AM

[bold]Beware of people using Israel stats to spread "info" on COVID and vaccines.[/bold]

It's become a technique of trolls, anti-vaxers, and ratfuckers to skew that info or present it in a murky way.

----- "Misleading posts on social media are now twisting data from Israel to falsely claim the country’s vaccination program is a failure due to the number of breakthrough cases of COVID-19 among the vaccinated. Medical professionals say Israel’s vaccine program is making remarkable progress against the virus."

"Experts say the country’s high vaccination rates are keeping case numbers down and reducing hospitalization and deaths even as the delta variant is provoking an uptick in infections. [bold]Data from Johns Hopkins University shows Israel documented 1,118 new cases on July 21 -- which is less than a tenth of the 11,934 new cases the country had at its peak on Jan. 27, before vaccines were widespread."[/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 73August 29, 2021 12:34 AM

R72, ModeRNA has been banned in Japan after it killed two people and the entire shipment they were sent was found to contain metal particulates. Their health Chairman is now advising all doctors and patients to treat CV19 infections with Ivermectin.

by Anonymousreply 74August 29, 2021 12:35 AM

r72 " In 2020, 65% of the company's revenues were from the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority and 24% of the company's revenues were from other agencies of the federal government of the United States."

Literally almost 90% of Moderna's revenue last year came from the federal government.

by Anonymousreply 75August 29, 2021 12:38 AM

R74 Moderna's problems in Japan seem to come from the manufacturing process at a factory in Spain. They don't seem to relate to the underlying vaccine itself. But we'll know more in a week or two.

by Anonymousreply 76August 29, 2021 12:43 AM

R75, no conflict of interest there, eh?

by Anonymousreply 77August 29, 2021 12:44 AM

R76, yes, and this is a common problem called “hot lots”. Generally, known “hot lots” are broken up and sent to different locations so causation is more difficult to detect. ModeRNA and Pfizer have both of course been given full legal immunity from any harms their injections cause.

by Anonymousreply 78August 29, 2021 12:45 AM

R78 It's not "full legal immunity." Manufacturers are still liable if there's been "willful misconduct."

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by Anonymousreply 79August 29, 2021 12:58 AM

R79, not in this case. Read the article upthread starting at r48 about the deals Pfizer struck with governments.

by Anonymousreply 80August 29, 2021 1:03 AM

R79, Further, the original EUA batches are still covered by EUA protections. Comirnaty, the official name of the drug which is approved for further EUA usage, which is being misrepresented in the media as full FDA approval, is legally distinct and is not only not available for anyone to use but has not even entered production. See the thread with the article from the British Medical Journal about that situation. Additionally, see the situation with the Vaccine Injury program:

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by Anonymousreply 81August 29, 2021 1:08 AM

BMJ Thread

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by Anonymousreply 82August 29, 2021 1:09 AM

R81 Unfortunately we don't really KNOW the situation in those countries. Just rumors. But in the U.S. it is clear under the PREP Act that immunity does not extend to willful misconduct.

by Anonymousreply 83August 29, 2021 1:11 AM

R83, not for EUA licensing and even Comirnaty is only licensed as extended EUA.

by Anonymousreply 84August 29, 2021 1:14 AM

R84 Show me that Emergency Use Authorization overrides the "willful misconduct" exclusion of the PREP Act.

by Anonymousreply 85August 29, 2021 1:30 AM

R85, it’s right fucking there on the FDA website. They have reduced the liability, extensively so, for this specific situation we are in and specifically for Pfizer:

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by Anonymousreply 86August 29, 2021 1:35 AM

R86 Sorry. You do not know what you are talking about. If you'd actually read the site you linked you'd know that EUAs are still subject to the PREP Act. Indeed, PREP explicitly applies to them.

The Secretary has no authority to waive the "willful misconduct" exclusion under a EUA. It's built into the language of PREP and only Congress can do that.

by Anonymousreply 87August 29, 2021 1:59 AM

r73 Cases mean nothing for either side of the argument regarding vaccine efficacy. How many hospitalizations have there been? How many of the hospitalized are vaccinated? Unvaccinated? This is how one measures vaccine efficacy. It was never claimed that they would prevent infection and provide sterilizing immunity. The claim is that they are effective at preventing severe illness and death from the virus.

The stress test of vaccine efficacy and how long protection lasts lies within the amount of vaccinated people hospitalized with the virus compared to unvaccinated. How about [italic]you[/italic] stop twisting the data by quoting "cases" when we know good and well that all it takes for a case to be counted is a positive PCR test which is not a reliable tool to detect illness or active/live infection.

by Anonymousreply 88August 29, 2021 2:03 AM

The problem is, media and governmental fixation on "cases" makes it difficult to get underlying data on hospitalization and ventilator cases. So people use the data that's readily at hand.

by Anonymousreply 89August 29, 2021 2:07 AM

Also, if it turns out that the exact same demographic is being hospitalized with the virus even amongst the vaccinated, that implies its efficacy for the vulnerable is poor and that is, supposedly, the demographic we are trying to protect the most.

If the same demographic of individuals had mild symptoms/illness with COVID before the vaccine roll out (the generally healthy and young with robust immune systems), it stands to reason that these same group of people may respond the same post-vaccination. In other words, the mass vaccination will yield the same results.

The concern is the propensity for vaccine-resistant variants which are more of a risk in populations where there is a high number of vaccinated people.

by Anonymousreply 90August 29, 2021 2:10 AM

New Zealand reports first death officially caused by Pfizer Vax in the country:

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by Anonymousreply 91August 30, 2021 3:39 AM

R91 why is the age of the women being kept secret? And why not reveal the time elapsed between her vaccine and her death?

by Anonymousreply 92August 30, 2021 9:19 AM

r92, how is anyone supposed to know the answers to those questions?

by Anonymousreply 93August 30, 2021 2:48 PM

R33 = right.

R34 = right wing troll.

by Anonymousreply 94August 30, 2021 2:59 PM

Good luck, vaxxers! Enjoy all those rare blood disorders and cancer!

by Anonymousreply 95September 1, 2021 6:35 AM

Huh, that's not what the TV says!

by Anonymousreply 96September 1, 2021 8:05 AM

Do they have the immunity stats by sex?

There is a huge critical difference in the sexes when it comes to the immune system.

Immunity for those with prior infection should be known by now. It's as if they don't want to know these things.

There is also a possibility that your innate immunity from the disease could be affected adversely the later administration of a vaccine. What do we know about that considering the new vaccines - and the new delivery system for some of them (mRNA).

Also to get the immunity from having had Covid did they say whether it had to have been symptomatic or could a mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic case give you the same immunity?

by Anonymousreply 97September 1, 2021 8:33 AM

r97, in the United States, there is no longer any such thing as biological sex. The Democrats got rid of that with language slipped into the infrastructure bill. It's a Hate Crime to believe in evolution here, now.

by Anonymousreply 98September 1, 2021 8:37 AM

also, r97, most people who have had covid, now have lifetime immunity. And the general, non-vaxxed population has a natural 80% immunity, with fewer than 99.9% of infections becoming fatal. Those numbers decrease in the elderly and immune-compromised.

With the mRNA injections, your immunity goes down to 46% at 4 months and 16% at 5/6 months.

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by Anonymousreply 99September 1, 2021 8:40 AM

[quote] There is a huge critical difference in the sexes when it comes to the immune system.


[quote] Immunity for those with prior infection should be known by now. It's as if they don't want to know these things.

Who doesn’t ‘want to know these things’? A vague disclaimer is nobody’s friend.

[quote] There is also a possibility that your innate immunity from the disease could be affected adversely the later administration of a vaccine.

‘Later’ as in when/after what? Again, clarity benefits your argument.

by Anonymousreply 100September 1, 2021 8:49 AM

R99 "With the mRNA injections, your immunity goes down to 46% at 4 months and 16% at 5/6 months."

Not one single word in the Nature article you cite supports that.

by Anonymousreply 101September 1, 2021 9:19 AM


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by Anonymousreply 102September 1, 2021 10:55 AM

r101, the Nature article is about NATURAL IMMUNITY. The line you quoted was about the ADE situation in the test subjects.

by Anonymousreply 103September 1, 2021 10:56 AM

Point is you made it look like you were citing support for the statement but you did not. And have not.

by Anonymousreply 104September 1, 2021 11:31 AM

r104, the articles and studies about Israel's data have been posted. Use your greasy sausage fingers and search.

by Anonymousreply 105September 1, 2021 11:54 AM

Assumption then is you're twisting the data or lying. Nobody takes offense at being asked for a specific link to specific data.

by Anonymousreply 106September 1, 2021 1:46 PM

[quote] There is a huge critical difference in the sexes when it comes to the immune system. Meaning?

The XY immune system is different from the XX immune system. Most of the immune and immune regulating genes are on the X chromosome meaning that females (XX) have double the immune genes. They used to believe that only one X chromosome was "turned on" but they have found that not to be true. Until recently they had not studied the X chromosome in depth but they have begin to do so recently. The XX immune system is why women survive pandemics and even famine better than men. It is probably also why women have more auto-immune issues than men. If you are truly interested then it is easy to google a multitude of studies including covid related. This is why we need to know facts about the sex of the covid patients - non-patients and vaccine recipients, etc. Non-binary is not a scientific category that means anything. In fact it hinders the reasearch and thus development toward an understanding of the disease and its treatment and prevention.

[quote] Immunity for those with prior infection should be known by now. It's as if they don't want to know these things. Who doesn’t ‘want to know these things’? A vague disclaimer is nobody’s friend.

There is a real push - understandably - to get everyone vaccinated. if there are data that say that those who had the virus and survived have strong immunity that rivals or bests the vaccines then it could serve a purpose to hide those facts. It would make things more difficult to enforce vaccination policies and laws if there are those who do not need to get the vaccine - thought there are solutions to this issue. So there certainly are people who - while they may want to know this info - do not want to share it.

[quote] There is also a possibility that your innate immunity from the disease could be affected adversely the later administration of a vaccine. ‘Later’ as in when/after what? Again, clarity benefits your argument.

Later as in after you have had the virus and are still alive.

by Anonymousreply 107September 1, 2021 8:43 PM

R107 - so, in layman's terms, given that the majority of DL-ers are bottoms, it had been better if they were born women in the age of COVID. I am sure the "T" contingency is silently nodding in approval.

by Anonymousreply 108September 1, 2021 9:25 PM

r107 There's now evidence that MMR and TDap vaccines lower risk of severe illness from COVID, apparently.

Considering most of us have already had that series as children (I hope), that means even more people are likely protected from severe illness from COVID due to other vaccinations.

Also, about the different in immunity between the sexes, I find that interesting considering we (females) tend to be more health conscious overall compared to males. Males are, statistically, less likely to seek medical care when they really, really should, and females are more likely to seek it when it may honestly, not be necessary. Males also die more from COVID. :-/

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by Anonymousreply 109September 2, 2021 6:08 AM

Thanks, R109. I just got a Tdap less than a year ago. Along with my flu, pneumonia and Shingrix vaccines. Bein a bog year for me and vaccines.

by Anonymousreply 110September 2, 2021 6:35 AM

r109, you know neither of those are sterilizing vaccines, either, right?

by Anonymousreply 111September 2, 2021 2:08 PM

r111, they don't know the different between sterilizing and leaky vaccines, they don't know the actual risk of death from cv19, they don't know how many people have been maimed and killed by the injections, they don't know about the global protests, they only know what Pfizer-media tells them.

by Anonymousreply 112October 31, 2021 2:29 AM


by Anonymousreply 113November 1, 2021 12:59 AM
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