Do you truly like your siblings?

I have 2 sisters and 2 brothers. I’m only in contact with my oldest sister. My other sibs are scammers and grifters and I wouldn’t want to know them if I'd met them as strangers.

Not really, to be honest.

I do think I love my brother, but he's selfish and basic. In other words, a straight man.

Yes, my sister closet to me in age, we text every day. My middle sister is mentally ill and difficult, but I love her. When she is right she can be a lot of fun. My younger sister and I are not as close, but stay in touch periodically. She works a lot as a nurse.

I have one younger brother. Without going into details, I'm convinced he's on-the-spectrum, though not full-blown Aspie. We have little to discuss on the rare occasions we meet, beyond the lives of our relatives. We follow each other's doings through our mother. He is so anti-tech that he's never had an email address (that anyone knows of).

We don't dislike each other, but there's just no "there" there (as the expression goes).

R1: I have a first cousin with a textbook case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - I understand her co-workers loathe her during the days, as do her neighbors nights and weekends.

I have two brothers and one sister. We're spread out in age by 16 years from the oldest to the youngest. I'm in the middle. All but one of us lives in the same metro area, but not near each other. I'm not really close to any of them. I mean, I love them and care about them and I enjoy their company when we're together. But we're rarely together and don't have much in common. If I had to say, I'm probably closest to my sister. She's the youngest and our brothers both moved out on their own a few years after she was born. So she and I grew up together.

My brothers are almost a generation older than me. The older is very calm and kind and finds a way to get along well with everyone; the younger was a hothead, prickly, vain, with a mean streak, he took offence at everything, and spent his life trying to figure out why everyone refused to be exactly like him in every respect. They are 18 and 15 years older so were out of the parental house or nearly so from all but my very earliest memories of them. The both had careers similar to my father, each lived within distant sight of my parents' house. I moved away to college and never came back, and saw very little of them until my parents were sick, one after the other. It was the first I had spent time with either of them as an adult and outside some family dinner or event. I came to know them much better and to like them on adult terms; the hothead brother was still smarting from every slight, still vain, still quick to take offence but we learned our way around one another and got one well or well enough.

Really though I didn't spend a lot of time with either and that's okay. My one brother is genuinely likable, the other was likable in his own way, on a good day. My surviving older brother has a girlfriend who is always trying to get us together as a big happy family in that way that women do. In reality, we would be happy to see each other and have a few hours of animated conversation then it would dwindle down to talking about favorite TV shows, or did I see that thing on the news, or do I still read a lot. We're quite far apart now and I'm not planning any trips to reflect on our unlikely joint amusement at "Keeping Up Appearances" (which I haven't seen in 20+ years) so I may not see him again. If I were close geographically I would be glad to do, but most of our experience as a family is not the bonding of young kids, it was the bonding of old adult children looking after things as their old parents got sick and died off. It's a bonding, yes, and I like my brother, but truly it's not a deep affection built up over a childhood and decades as adults; he's just the one link left to my family and comparing different memories of our parents from different periods of time.

We get along well in short does but we've only memories that don't often overlap in common, so we're not that very close at all.

Not really, but I'm afraid to say that.

I only had one sibling a brother who killed himself in his 30's, he made the right decision.

My brother and I were isolating together for most of last year. We got really close.

I have one younger ( just by 18 months) brother. He's a Trumptard.

All of us are so far away from one another geographically, I think that's why we get along. When we are together it's a lot of fun.

Hell no. I hate both my siblings.

I am the middle brother. Either of my brothers could drop dead tonight and I wouldn't shed a tear. They are simply people that I used to know.

I love this thread and I love how honest you all are being.

My brother was abusive when I was a kid so we are not close today. I see siblings who are best friends and I envy them.

Nope!

My sister is an idiot. I don't hate her but I don't like her either.

My sister was a textbook narcissist who terrorized her 6 husbands and the entire family. She died a few years ago and no one has ever mentioned her name again

I’ve had issues with my one sibling, 16-month younger sister. We grew closer as teens after our parents divorced. The last few years she cut herself off from both our parents & me due to inheritance issues. My mother had a recent near-death experience which brought my sister back into the fold & I’m seeing her in a whole new, better light. She still won’t have anything to do with our narcissistic dad though, but I get where she’s coming from.

Huge family, third of six here. Five of us are boys, with the sister being the oldest. Twenty one years difference between the oldest and the youngest. I made the decision to divorce the lot of them when they all became rabid Trumpers. I haven't spoken to any of them in over five years and have every intention of keeping it that way. I only regret that my sister has all the pictures from my childhood, and I've no way to get them without communicating with her/them and that ain't gonna happen.

No. Once my mom’s estate is settled I have no intention of ever speaking with them again. Sincerely. They feel the same.it would make my mom sad, yet she helped make it that way.

Have younger brother and sister. When we were younger we all got along…just like siblings. As we got older, I was closer to my brother. My brother has always been a handful, burning his candle at both ends and in the center. We all went our separate ways, but always kept in touch. As we got older, my sister and I became very close and my brother and I farther apart. I talk with her at least 3 times a week. My brother and I had a falling out years ago and have not spoken since. My sister keeps in touch with my brother and will let me know if there’s something I need to be aware of. What’s odd is I have no feelings one way or the other about my brother. He’s had a heart attack, bladder cancer and other medical problems which my sister told me about. My response to my sister is, ‘ok’. For me blood isn’t thicker than water.

I love them but they annoy the hell out of me. My sister is a neurotic, workaholic, Bible thumper. My brother is much older than me and still talks like an annoying teen from the 00s who calls everything that sucks "gay". He's also a mooch and throws a tantrum when he doesn't get cash.

Reading these posts makes me think that the majority of siblings don't get along. Sadly, I fall into that camp as well. I have an older brother who was an abusive drug addict and has never once copped to it. I have a sister that I cut off speaking to years ago because she has a real ugly side to her that people have put up with, but I chose not to. My remaining older sister and I have never fallen out and do like each other, but I just don't feel she makes any effort in the relationship. I've tried but I'm just tired of it being mainly my effort. I want people in my life that make an effort and show there love through action. I've been thinking about this as I've more as I've gotten older. This goes for friends as well. When I hear things like, just because I don't call doesn't mean I don't think about you often. Sorry, that's a cop out. If you don't show your love to people than it's just words. I think we make time for the people that we want to be around and love.

My sister and I are very close. I’m not especially fond of her husband, but we have agreed to disagree about her taste in men.

One of the pop psychology magazines featured an article on this.

Having a special needs sibling creates more distance between siblings.

A death in the immediate family also creates distance.

A contentious divorce can divide siblings.

Large age differences make children feel they grew up with different families.

Of course, there's always the gay component that may or may not play a hand.

I trade cat memes with one brother and avoid the sociopath brother.

I've two older sisters. Until we were all 50-55, I got along quite well with one, pretty well with the other... in small doses 'cause she's tightly wound. Then our mom died, in 2013. Tightly wound sister became woefully infantile, nasty, ridiculous, etc. We've had no meaningful communication in eight years. The other sister, for nothing within a million miles of a good reason, has apparently decided I'm worse than Hitler, 100% ghosted me. Neither one informed me when our father died.

Regarding, the future, if one or both decide to act like reasonably sane adults, they know where to find me. And I can't guess how I'd respond.

For now, though, and for the foreseeable future, we are done, done and done.

Fuck 'em.

r27 What was your sister's stated reason for ghosting you? I want to hear how dumb it was.

I considered my younger brother and I to be very close growing up. I don’t think he feels the same way. It’s been very painful to come to terms with this.

I think I probably was mean to him at times— my parents pretty much left him with me to raise, and as a kid I found that annoying at times. But I also loved him, defended him, supported him, and helped guide him through some things no one ever helped me with.

We’re now in the same profession, so there’s some mild rivalry. His wife is an annoying, humorless child. She’s a chore to be around. And my brother is very smug. My parents helped him buy a house, yet he acts like he did it all on his own. I think he’d like to go full blown Republican, but finds the rednecks too distasteful. Anyway, we don’t have a lot in common but I care for him.

Sister gave no reason for ghosting. A family member good terms with her and I did ask, as per my request, and she wouldn't say a thing. It was damn strange.

I have a half-sister, eight years younger than I. Our mother (crazy, childish, drunken whore that she was) died suddenly when I was eleven and my half-sister was three. The way everyone carried on, you would think only "that poor little girl [had] lost her mother". Our mother acted as if she only had one child anyway. My half-sister was a lying, manipulative little cunt from day one. She was a perfect little angel while I was the demon seed because everyone always believed her lies.

The last time I heard anything about her, she had married a man older than her father and he had kids younger than she was calling her "mom". She called our mother's younger sister asking for money, claiming she needed medical tests for "female trouble". She could die! When my aunt told her no, she hung up and we never heard from her again. That was in 1999. I don't miss her or even want to know what happened to her or her father.

I don't really get along well with my siblings. I've tried mightily, but have given up. I need to focus on other things, like myself, not joking.

I loved my mom and dad, but I'm not sure if they raised us in a way that emphasized friendship between the siblings. I have a sister who was allowed to be angry and in a bad mood for no real, stated reasons. I have a brother who was allowed to be alternately silent and surly.

Like I said, I've tried with all of them (siblings) and I don't think it's worth my time and sadness, anymore.

I got on reasonably well with my brother, 3 years younger than me. But when he died in his mid-30s, I barely cared. I was tormented by my mother and he was her golden child. He never once offered a word of support, either in front of my parents or when we were alone. He was out for himself.

Not really, but he’s still my brother so we have a shared history and extended family. I see him occasionally at weddings or funerals. Once in awhile we email each other.

Parents don't seem to give a shit that, by playing favorites, having a golden child, they set their kids up to hate each other.

Any twins here? It's always seemed to me that they tend to be quite close to each other, unlike so many untwinned siblings.

My sister and I don't speak. I pretty much cut off all contact in early adulthood. Not in a big, scene-making "I'm never speaking to you again!!!" way, I just gradually removed myself from the relationship.

We were close as kids, but as soon as she hit puberty, her entire personality changed. She realized she could manipulate men by using her body and sex, and she just became this manipulative, self-centered whore. She drove away all her friends by going after their boyfriends. She destroyed my father's relationship with his sister by making a pass at her husband (she was 13). She fucked our cousin, then fucked our other cousin (his brother) and destroyed their relationship to us, and to each other. She got married at 16, fucked her husband's best friend, and was divorced at 17. She was a 3-time divorcee before she reached 30. She seemed to target men in a way that would piss off other people in her life. One relationship she had was with her best friend's brother, and when she dumped that guy, that ended the lifelong friendship as well. Her 3rd husband was the brother of another guy she was dating, so that was another relationship between brothers that she fucked up.

She also scammed my father's second wife out of tens of thousands of dollars. I'd pretty much backed away from her at that point so I forget the details, but it involved her buying our stepmother's house, and then refusing to make any payments for it, for no other reason than she could get away with it. I know my father eventually wound up paying the tens of thousands out of his own pocket.

She also turned into a racist and a homophobe. Our parents were bleeding heart liberals, so we weren't raised that way at all.

I last saw her at Dad's funeral. She's a humongous fat pig now (5'1" or maybe 5'2", and a good 260-280 lbs.), married to a guy who's gotta be over 400 lbs.

So, to answer your question, no. I don't like my sibling.

My younger brother is a real chore to be around. Our father has always been a manipulative, abusive, angry man. I figured this out, at least subconsciously, when I was in preschool and kept my distance whenever possible, but my brother never really saw what I saw, even though he received the brunt of the physical abuse. Now he behaves so similarly to our father; no sense of humor about himself, always badmouthing people behind their backs, sucking the oxygen out of the room, flying into a rage when he doesn't get what he wants, pontificating endlessly about things only he's interested in, buying things he doesn't need, acting extremely shallow, obsessed with money, etc. Basically acting like a complete narcissist.

But what makes him much worse than our dad is how entitled he is. Our dad grew up poor with a bunch of siblings. My brother and I were the only kids in our house and spoiled. I knew we were spoiled and was ashamed, but again, my brother never had a clue and still behaves like a spoiled brat to this day. I think the entitlement mixed with his rage issues doesn't bode well for the future.

We get along now when we see eachother. I just have to not react to his bullshit and we have a nice time. But I end up resenting his behavior and it eats me up inside. He's exhausting to be around, and I feel bad because he doesn't seem to understand why I keep such a distance.

Oh and my brother and I were born 2 years apart.

I have 2 younger siblings, a brother and a sister. When we were growing up, my sister was the classic golden child (I remember her getting caught shoplifting at 10 or so and my mother pitching such a fit about her baby not being capable of such a thing that that store just let us go) and I was the classic scapegoat. I left home the day after graduating high school and within 6 month the golden child had become the new scapegoat and my brother was the new golden child.

As a little kid I used to fantasize about my sister getting her comeuppance but in truth she was a child too and my mom's treatment of her, and then her shunning her at a very vulnerable age for a girl (15-16) totally fucked her up. To this day she is extremely difficult, almost unable to hold down any kind of relationship and seems very unhappy. I put up with her because I feel like we both got fucked over. I do love her. A lot of the time, I don't like her. I don't think she likes me, either.

My brother fully took advantage of being the new favoured child and contrary to the "they always end up failing" meme he is by far the most successful of all of us, the only one who actually got the doctorate our parents raised us to understand we would be worthless without and the only one in a long term relationship (with a woman who, like my parents, is apparently happy to play the role of cheerleader as her main function in life). My brother, who when we were younger acknowledged a few times how fucked up my treatment was, now disdains me and speaks to me, when we do speak, in a tone most people reserve for particularly stupid children. He believes his position is his due and has no time for people who don't accept him as the brilliant scientist my parents and his wife assure him he is (he never got a professorship and now works for the government in a small town but that's only because his PhD advisors were secretly jealous of him and sabotaged his work - according to him and our parents).

I suppose I love my brother. If i actually sit with it and let myself feel it, I understand he is the way he is because he, too, is fucked up and terrified of his own weaknesses and imperfections. Fucked up by parents who were in their turn fucked up and so on and so on back in time. We haven't fallen out officially but he has no time for me or interest in me. The last time I saw him was when my dad was dying, we sat up late one night and my brother let out 10+ years of having to deal with my mom, what a crazy bitch she is, how she abused my dad etc. A few weeks later when I called him, thinking maybe we could rekindle a relationship, he coldly told me I was too negative and he "couldn't be around" that energy after I spoke so badly of our mother. I just laughed, but it hurt a lot.

Look how much I've written. I could say I don't care but I do. I could say it doesn't hurt but it does. It didn't have to be this way, but it is and there's nothing I can do about it. The sadness will stay with me, I think. I did cut our mother off but to my siblings, neither of whom I live close to, I will always be a fuck up who is not worthy of respect.

Yes R36 - I’m an identical twin.

I’m very close with both my brothers - love them very much.

I only have a brother, straight, who's older than me by 15 months. Since we were kids, he's always been an asshole. I don't like him and have no interesting in speaking to him, much less seeing him in person. I'm sure he thinks I'm gay. I never came out to him because I never cared enough about him to confide such a personal thing.

I was always the friendlier, more approachable son in the family. He was often standoffish, even with relatives. He basically viewed me as competition for the same resources. He resented it when I was doing well. He enjoyed it when I was going through difficult times. With a sibling like that, who needs enemies? I wish I could say he had a softer side, but I didn't see it. He was my introduction to how petty people can be with their insecurities. He was the first selfish person I knew.

My parents were generous at heart. I was my (now deceased) father's favorite, but it could've been by default. I'm certainly no saint, although I was an affectionate, agreeable kid. This favoritism only added to my brother's resentment of me, yet he never made an effort to get close to our father, to meet him halfway. My mother was in denial about how self-centered my brother was (and is, because most people don't fundamentally change). She has always been a responsible parent and talks to him, but I don't think they're particularly close.

Luckily, I like many of my cousins. I have plenty of relatives on both sides of the family.

R41, tell us more. Are either of your bothers gay? If your twin isn't gay, how did things go when you came out?

* no interest in speaking to him

R43 -

Neither of my brothers are gay.

When I came out to my twin, he freaked out a little bit, because he assumed that we would share any important attribute.

But he soon came around.

I have two older sisters. I am very close to both and couldn't imagine life without them.

We had a Dickensian level bad childhood. No way do I survive it without those two.

We've been to war together, made it out, and can laugh about it now. And laugh we do.

R45, so you’ve never fooled with either of them?

Truly like? No. In fact, I never did simply because I didn't know how to.

My siblings and I did not know what closeness meant, or even the concept of liking one another. Our family was dysfunctional in the extreme of extremes, where we had little mutual respect, no real love or deep bond, and fought viciously, frequently, and thought only of ourselves. It was a mirror of the relationship between our parents who had long ago lost their love for each other and who stayed married only as a matter of convenience.

My parents have long since passed, and through the years I have come to speak much less frequently with my surviving siblings. In particular, with one of my sisters, I'm at the point where I feel I can no longer speak to or visit her, and the hardness between us has morphed from cold to an ice age mass.

I never became out with my siblings—even though it's obvious I'm gay—because they would pretty much disown me if I were to be open about it and openly expressed myself around them as a gay man. I am preparing for a future even farther away from them with each passing day.

I like my brother and sister but we have really annoyed each other over the years.

I have one surviving sibling and we are very much opposites. I have tried to maintain a relationship but it's very very, difficult.

R47

“Fooling” with my brothers is a nauseating idea.

^ You just can't take the "trailer park" out of some people

Not close to my only sibling (younger sister) as there is an 8 year difference in our ages. I left home when I was 18 to go to university and returned only once or twice a year for a visit. We are basically strangers. The only connection we had was our parents. The last one passed away10 years ago. My sister and I have not spoken or seen each other since.

The way I see it, siblings are almost like random people personality-wise and, therefore, it's going to be potluck whether you have a good relationship or not. It's not the same as friends and partners whom you actually pick or gravitate towards because you gel.

Someone above asked about twins - I have aunts who are non-identical twins and my mother says that they've never liked each other and constantly argue even though the funny thing is that they still lived together well into adulthood. My mother said that she likes that my siblings and I don't argue and bicker but I don't feel close to them either and feel no attachment so that can be a downside of that.

[Quote]My half-sister was a lying, manipulative little cunt from day one. She was a perfect little angel while I was the demon seed because everyone always believed her lies.

Huh, sounds a lot like my sister. Three years younger than me. We share the same mother and father. But from the minute she could talk, lies have rolled off her tongue and I always copped the blame. That's annoying as a kid, downright infuriating as a teen. She was a bitch on wheels, teased and bullied me mercilessly but would bat her eyelids to our folks and say that I was the one with issues and she was just trying to help me.

She stole constantly. I caught her going through my room all the time. Oneday, I happened to be around when one of her friends was over. My sister gave her friend a gift, and as I watched on, her friend unwrapped a ring that belonged to me. I went beserk, and my parents were more concerned about me making a scene than what she'd done. She got caught shoplifting and managed to wriggle out of it by telling Mum and Dad she had no idea her friends were doing it. She stole thousands of dollars that belonged to the sports club she played for, of which Dad had become president.

I began staying away from home as often as possible, and so did she, so we really didn't have much to do with each other for many years. Cut to our twenties. I was really close to one of our cousins, who she thought was a total loser. Until she didn't, and proceeded to drive a wedge between my cousin and I. She ingratiated herself into our cousin's life and took great satisfaction posting their adventures all over Facebook.

Cut to our thirties, we end up living in the same town and have mutual friends. We started seeing more of each other socially and things seemed to be going okay. I thought maybe she'd changed, so let my guard down and started confiding in her, only to discover she was repeating everything to our parents and spinning it to make it seem as though I was unstable. She also began to steal friends away. When I confronted her, she said I was being dramatic and paranoid. Of course, she cried to our parents and made me look like the bad guy for hurting her feelings.

It's now been months since I've spoken to her. I've cut contact with most of our mutual friends. My father recently admitted that he has seen a nasty, vicious side to her and that what she's telling them about me doesn't add up to what they see and know. Finally, after 38 years, at least one of my parents can admit they are beginning to see through her lies.

The worst part is, I don't know why she needs to torment me. Why does she need to belittle me, take my friends, try to poison my parents and extended family against me. I know there are people who will MARY! me, or tell me that real friends can't be "stolen" but surely others will know how debilitating growing up with a manipulative snake can be.

[quote] I just don't feel she makes any effort in the relationship. I've tried but I'm just tired of it being mainly my effort. I want people in my life that make an effort and show there love through action. I've been thinking about this as I've more as I've gotten older. This goes for friends as well.

I’ll second this because I’ve often felt the same way. Eventually I let the relationship die. I can’t be the only one who cares.

My brother and I were never close. We just never seemed to bond despite my parents telling me that we'd become closer as we got older. Now my parents want us to have more contact with each other but neither of us is interested. There was no big scene, no defining moment, just two people that were never close and went their separate ways.

My sister and I were sort-of close but not really. She had a lot of mental and drug problems and the last few years of her life were a nightmare for all involved. Multiple overdoses, erratic behavior, in and and out of institutions and in the end, ongoing suicide attempts, one of which ended her life. While all this was going we were in our 40s and may parents in their 70s and everyone was just to old for that shit.

To be honest I was relieved when it happened more than anything and my brother didn't care at all. I wonder what it must be like for our parents knowing that when they die that will be the end of the family.

My sister and I are opposites. She is a factory worker down South, a Trump voter and has no intellectual interests (my mom always joked she should have been the boy and I the girl heh heh). She posts her every thought on Facebook, and her every thought is about herself.

Yep.

My little sister is the only person on Earth I actually wholeheartedly do love and like. I’d really do almost anything for her, and feel it’s my happy responsibility to look out for her and be one of her biggest cheerleaders.

As for the rest of the bloodline—parents are dumb breeders, grandmother (last surviving grandparent) is a mean entitled bitch, and the rest of the relatives (half estranged, the other just distant) are all bone-selfish social-climbing ethnically-devoid jackals.

The catch-22 for me is that I really need a group of close friends and/or a partner + their family to make up a social safety net. But I’m a reclusive avoidant loner type who thanks to my awful family trauma doesn’t have much energy or confidence to relate to others. I haven’t had one decent good friend in a decade, and I have never dated. It’s a tricky situation, probably one that calls for therapy my poor ass cannot afford. Sigh.

I get on fine with my brother and obviously love him but I wouldn't have him as a friend if that's what you mean. We're just very different and have some shared values because of growing up in the same house with the same parents but also some that don't align at all, and if he wasn't family I wouldn't really have reason to spend time with him.

Come play with us, #60. Forever... and ever... and ever... and

R62 tragically you monsters are the best and only friends I’ve had in years. You’re the ones I turn to when in dire social need. I am so fucked...😖

I have an older sister and brother (both in their mid 70s). I haven't seen or heard from either of them since 1995 after the final resolution of my parent's estate even though we all still live in the same city. I do get a Christmas card every year from my brother's idiot fake Christian wife only because she thinks that will help insure her entry into Heaven when she dies (it won't). My siblings are both evil to the core, with my sister being the most evil. She has been that way since childhood. My mother recognized it early and and she was so concerned that she had her seen by psychiatrists when she was in middle school. They recommended she be sent away to boarding school and by the 9th grade she was packed off to a girl's school near Albany, NY., so luckily my interactions with her after that were only during holidays and some school breaks. Sadly that experience did nothing to improve her. Now she's an old woman loaded from 2 very rich husbands who died during the marriages (lucky bastards). My brother is a carbon copy of my hateful (believe the way I do or you're an idiot & I'll be very happy to tell you so) father. A singularly noxious and bilious individual.

Suffice it to say I want less than zero interaction with either of them. The world will be a better place when they're both dead. My last words to both of them (at the same time) were "the next time I'll see either of you will be at your funerals". Now I can honestly say that is no longer true. I have no intention of attending either of their funerals.

My brother is older than me by a decade, but we've always been very close. I guess we have the sickening best friends kind of relationship. He's the one person who has always be there for me, no matter what, through my whole life. Always there, always supportive. I think I wouldn't have made it without him.

My sister is the eldest, and when I was a kid I thought I hated her, and couldn't wait to get rid of her. She was a nightmare to live with, batshit crazy, perpetually angry, and taking it out on everyone, especially me. She got better with time. I understand she loves me in her own weird way, and I'm protective of her. She went through a lot, was bullied by teachers and kids when she was a child, and never recovered. She used to be a bright, happy child before, and I'm angry that she didn't get to live to her potential just because of some people's malevolence.

R65 your elder sister sounds like me. I am an eldest sister, and I was a nerdy introverted autistic kid in school—smart and upbeat and precocious, but constantly made fun of by students & teachers alike. was also teased and excluded by my cousins.

Now I’m essentially a 30-year old failure to launch. I worry all the time that I’m a burden and a disappointment to those around me, and that I’ve failed all potential I had.

Don’t know what I would have done without my younger siblings, though. They’re the only ones who have supported me and stuck by me. The guilt that I have failed them as an example haunts me, though.

I was close to my brother, but he went off the rails and hasn't properly recovered. These days I have very little to do with him. If anything, I resent how stressed he's made my parents and how I may yet be guilt-tripped into looking out for him when they're gone (which hopefully won't be for many, many years yet).

I have two sisters and haven't spoken to them in 12 years. They're both extreme gossips, they gossip about everyone except themselves and their children. So I knew they gossiped about me, but after my younger sister casually let me know that they thought I was a child molester, all because my older sister thought she saw me "molesting" our neighbor when I was TWELVE YEARS OLD (and I wasn't), I haven't had a thing to do with them since.

And since all they care about is their image, they told the rest of our family and their friends their version of the "truth" because they couldn't have anyone thinking their brother doesn't speak to them because of something they did.

They're both 24 hr Fox News watching extreme Trumplicans, so I wouldn't have much to do with them anyway.

I have an identical twin brother whom I haven't spoken to since 2017. I'm probably closest to my oldest brother (by 3 years) but that's more of a pandemic development. I'm coming to terms with the emerging fact that my middle brother has racist tendencies and is vaccine hesitant (I suspect because his friends are anti-vaxxers) and is one of those tiresome people that is kind of ambivalent about these things, as if they don't matter and aren't deal breakers.

Turns out my extended family in PA and TX are all racists. I'm not betting my future on being close to any of these people.

R66, there is no such thing as a 30 year-old failure. I can't imagine who ever put that idea in your head. You have your whole life ahead of you - life is all about process, the only destination is when you depart this world. Enjoy the process. Everyone is in recovery - face the challenges in front of you and you will be amazed at the strength and resilience you possess.

I can't believe you're giving up on yourself at 30. It sounds like you never gave yourself a chance. You deserve a chance. You just need some re-programming. :)

R70 "Everyone is in recovery".

I've never seen/heard that phrase. Did you make it up? It's brilliant! If you're not a psychotherapist, you might want to strongly consider it. That was a beautiful post.

I’m very close to my younger brother and sister and feel very lucky. We have never fought as adults. We don’t talk as frequently as some people in the thread, but we text a lot. We have similar interests, politics, and senses of humor, and my brother married someone wonderful who also gets along with us. My parents had a strange relationship, but whatever they did to raise close kids worked.

I do worry as the oldest about whether they feel they can come to me for help or advice, because they don’t. But we are all a bit headstrong and independent, so not an advice-seeking bunch.

No! One sister has a history of being a big-mouthed tattle tale, and the other very emotionally and verbally abusive to me. I don't like them or talk to them anymore and this was the nail in the coffin:

My two sisters and I went to visit my dying father (not together, the sisters just sort of showed up, my mother [long divorced from my dad] paid for them to fly to see him as well so we could be a family one last time). Note the bit about my mother, not my sisters, paying for their airline tickets even though they both have jobs. But mom's been paying their bills their entire adult lives. They are in their 40s. On the second day I was there, I slipped and fell down a flight of stairs and nearly broke my back. My sisters thought this was hilarious. They laughed and laughed. I was in pain for months and unable to exercise or ride my bike for several months afterwards, but I digress.

The next day, on the only day my father visited his home from the nursing home he was staying at, my sisters decided they'd play tourists for the day, and took off. When they came back four hours later, they said they had went to buy cupcakes. How sweet! (eyeroll) Odd coincidence that one of my sister's best friends, also gay, lives in the same city and it was pride that day. That evening, my sisters had some big blowup with my stepmother. I went to where they were all yelling and told them all to pipe down, since it was 11:30 pm (dad lived in a townhouse). My sisters decided to leave the next day. When they got home, they tattled to my mother that I "wasn't taking their side". I told my mother they must have conveniently left out the fact they laughed at me after I slipped and fell down a flight of stairs. My mother started crying and said I am not going to have anyone left (as in I need to kiss my sisters' asses, no matter what and be a family with them). I'm done with all of them. Actually, I have a wonderful boyfriend who I plan to marry.

R66 Honestly at 30 you're still very young and everything is still possible. When I said I'm mad my sister didn't get to live to her potential, it doesn't mean she still can't. But she's 50 and she's spent all those years being unhappy and thinking she's worthless, and she's not. She doesn't believe us when we tell her she's talented (she's a good writer), and that really guts me. I certainly would never think she failed me because she's not where she could be. I want her happy and at peace with herself. That's all I want from her.

I am the oldest of three girls (and the only lesbian). As youngsters, my middle sister and I were very close, and I unmercifully teased my youngest sister, who would turn out to be dyslexic (something we didn't know about in those days). I was very cruel to her, always telling her how stupid she was, etc. By the same token, she was a spoiled brat, kicking and screaming and howling if she didn't get her way, and a goody-two-shoes, running to my mother to "tattle" on me and my other sister every time we put a foot wrong (which, admittedly, was often).

Fast forward to present day, and my youngest sister and I, although we live in different states, are so close that we talk every day on the phone, sometimes multiple times. She and I are opposites in a way that we compliment each other. She probably knows me as well as anyone ever has and she has an uncanny sense of knowing what I'm going to say before I say it. She is an inveterate bargain shopper and is always looking for things I might need or like. As adults, we have become great friends.

And my middle sister? In late adolescence, she became a druggie and a slut, and her personality underwent such a complete transformation that it's like she became a different person. In later life (after a failed marriage and two useless now adult children), she's become a swing party habitué intent on proving that Black men really do have bigger penises (one dick at a time) and who sincerely believes that's where she'll meet the love of her life who will marry her and be by her side forever.

Life is funny.

My siblings are both dead. So they get no argument from me.

R64 - “The world will be a better place when they’re both dead.” (referring to your brother and sister) This is one of my favorite lines in this thread! It made my morning. Thank you!

R65/R70/R74 thanks so much for your thoughtful replies. Genuinely had a little cry of relief into my coffee reading them. That you took the time to write such kind motivating words gives me back a tiny spark of hope, truly.

R65 you sound like the best kind of sibling to have—just like my sister. She says the same things to me that you do to yours, that I haven’t let her down and that she just wants me to be happy in a life I want. That support is invaluable and I hope it’s always rhere, but unfortunately when you’re in a shame-based mindset it’s difficult to take action to meet that wish, and sometimes it even ends up feeling like more pressure. I think that elder siblings take a lot of cultural pressure on ourselves to be something or someone of strength and maturity and importance, though in reality it isn’t feasible for all. Whenever people meet me and my sister together, they assume she’s the elder one because she’s so much more assertive and ‘together’ and conventionally-successful than me, and that makes me deeply ashamed of myself as well as proud of her. The best thing I’ve ever done in my life so far is help raise my sister into the woman she is now, but since she’s gone her own independent way and flying high, I fear that maybe that’s all I’ll ever do.

R70 feeling as if my age is prohibiting me is a conclusion I’ve come to alone. I’ve already been rejected for jobs and dates over it, which I figured wouldn’t happen for another 5-10 years at least!

This is going to sound lame and whiny, possibly, but to tell the truth I’m not sure exactly why I feel like a failure, or like giving up early, or like I’m weak and can’t make it. Perhaps it’s all to do with the mockery and exclusion I got as a shy misunderstood kid in a high-pressure academic school. Or it could be my dysfunctional family falling apart and drifting away in my teens thanks to internecine fights and financial crashes. Or maybe it’s all the negativity we constantly get barraged with in the media, much of it about how the world isn’t going to last long and we’ll all die soon of [insert global tragedy]. It all feels like too much to cope with, like there’s no way we can pull through—and even if we do, what’s the point? Truthfully I don’t want to contribute to punishing and cruelly oppressive hypeecapitalistic work systems or to education systems teaching lies, and I don’t plan to have kids in such an awful world, and I don’t want to watch my sister potentially throw her life away on a family if it doesn’t work out well for her for whatever reason—for these reasons, I realise that society considers me an unproductive drain and dispensable.

What I feel I lack is inner motivation, a really healthy strong self esteem, and a support system that could help me feel worthy and capable of purpose or following a real goal, but isn’t it too late for that once you get out of College? Everyone else my age is settling down and climbing halfway up ladders, not looking back at the peers left behind crawling along the road they’ve already run. And if I couldn’t build myself up before now while young and strong, isn’t it going to be insurmountable going forward? That ‘re-programming’ would be perfect (though not if it’s cult shit, sorry clams), if I only knew how to do it and could force myself to take consistent action on it.

^^to add context to all that waffle..

It’s true that 30 (well, only just 29, actually, I was rounding up for dramatic license) isn’t old, really, though it’s not young either. Still, each morning I get up and feel somehow as if the world is slowly leaving me behind. I’m finding maturity and ageing a very difficult thing to cope with, and honestly I think part of that is because I skipped a lot of the adolescent and young-adult developmental milestones—never socialised (for the aforementioned reasons) or did anything wild, didn’t have a subcultural group, didn’t drive (still don’t—keep failing my test!), dropped out of University (still scraped a BA, luckily), never had any sexual experiences, etc. Everyone my age has stories of their youth, and I have nothing to contribute because I spent the whole time buried in books with headphones on trying to block out a hostile environment that excluded me (and no, that irony is not lost on me). It’s a vicious circle, by now.

Also, I don’t have any positive role models around who have aged with grace and who have created a fulfilling successful elder life in which they are respected and appreciated. I feel like I’m hurtling toward an even more miserable existence than the one I just escaped.

But I know that such negativity and nihilism is fruitless as well as damaging. every day I try to look for little things to be positive about and grateful for—birds singing, nice food for breakfast, a good book, etc.—like psychologists say we should. But it isn’t enough to overcome the stress of everything else suffusing in.

I don't hate my siblings (I have one older sister and two older brothers), but we're not what you would call 'close'.

When asked about siblings, I archly declare that 'they served their purpose.'

In truth, it's extremely painful to me that I have five siblings and zero relationship with them. This thread made me feel less alone.

My dad has no contact with his five brothers and sisters. Some of them are actually nice and interesting people. They also seem to love him. It’s a mystery as they are in their late seventies and you’d think my father would value family more.

My fathers wife is one of three siblings, and she has no contact with her family either. I think she encourages my father to have no contact with either his siblings or his children (my brother and me.)

Now that there are grandkids, I think my father slightly regrets this dynamic. His lunatic wife will actually prevent him from knowing his grandchildren. And it isn’t like they have a lot of time left.

But, back on topic. Sometimes there is love between siblings, but spouses interfere, etc.

I am the middle child and don't like either of my brothers.

[quote]My brother is much older than me and still talks like an annoying teen from the 00s who calls everything that sucks "gay". He's also a mooch and throws a tantrum when he doesn't get cash.

What a piece of shit. He has no respect for you. Have you called him out for that shit?😡

[quote] My dad has no contact with his five brothers and sisters. Some of them are actually nice and interesting people. They also seem to love him. It’s a mystery as they are in their late seventies..

Same with my father. He’s in sixties, one of nine, and doesn’t speak to any of them anymore (hasn’t for well over a decade). In our case, the estrangement happened due to a painful messy fallout from the sale of a property belonging to my late grandmother, who neglected to leave a will. Court dates were missed, fingerprints took, fights broke out, etc. I was a preteen at the time, and it was horrible to watch it all unfold. The family were always dysfunctional uneducated hellbillies who tended to get into it, but this got cold and viciously scary in ways that were new. In the end, my dad took his small share of money and walked with my mom and me, and after that we just didn’t have a family anymore.

My brother and I were close until he got married. His wife is one of three siblings snd they all hate each other. They openly snipe at and badmouth each other.

I was a little taken aback by this dynamic, but it seems to be contagious. My brother has started treating me the same way his wife treats her siblings. It’s like she’s given him permission to express all this contempt I guess he’s always had.

Meanwhile he is no walk in the park, but I’ve been completely blind to his faults our whole lives. I practically worshipped him. My partner in the past pointed out my brothers quirks but I laughed them off.

Now that my brother has decided he’s too good for me (and everyone else), I see some of his faults s little more clearly.

I love mine but I do not like them much. We are too dissimilar. I do not enjoy spending time with them but I can't imagine life without them, either. A lot of loyalty in my family, not much like. That's OK. We're there for each other in a reliable way.

R86 You need to lay it all out on the table and let him know how you feel. If he still continues this shit, cut him off.

Yes. Like all my (younger) siblings.

Easiest to talk with those closest in age, but that’s not surprising. We each saw a different world growing up.

My older sister and I have mutual respect. We're not close. We secretly don't hate each other even if we don't spend time together, hang out or talk. If we have to do any of those things it's fine.

There's an age gap between my younger brother and I but we are close. It's not, brother-brother close but more like brother-surrogate parent close. All the things our parents did with my sister and I as kids, I ended up doing with him because they were too old to. I try my best to be a friend and not lecture him but I always end up failing in the end. At least he usually takes my advice and it works for him. I'm somehow Pru, he's Phoebe.

You are a good sibling, r90.

I have a slightly younger brother and we moved around a lot when we were younger so he was the only person I knew until we got established with friends. We grew up and have very different lives. I care about him very much, but our lives are in no way interconnected.

This is one of the most compelling and honest threads on DL in a while. Normally I wouldn't post anything personal but I feel like others have shared so... Without getting too specific on an anonymous board my older brother is one of the Masters of the Universe -- you know, one of the beyond super-wealthy, connected, and powerful. He was always the alpha male in our family, dominating even our father by the time he was 12. Seriously. He's driven, intense, and controlling. I'm successful but not nearly at his level. We got along well enough as kids, did okay as young adults, but then when our parents died, it was horrendous. He behaved atrociously; he had no time for this "death thing," he was busy, I had to take care of everything, and then, the meager money our parents had -- he took half, which was fair on paper but seriously, he needed nothing and at the time I was struggling (am not at all now). He was also very rude to my partner at the time. We argued and I stopped speaking to him.

10 years later I went through a period of extreme depression and through, what the hell, I'll call him. He was actually quite nice, and slowly I rebuilt the relationship. It occurred to me, finally, that he was the only brother I would ever have, and as different as we were, we also shared many similar ideas and political stances. Now we phone every week and although he still talks almost always about himself, he asks me serious and intelligent questions about my life and truly seems to care. I consider this recreation of our relationship one of the best things in my life.

I only have one sibling and we no longer speak because I told her she belonged to a cult. She's a Trumper. I haven't spoken to her in over a year. Even when I had covid she did not contact me so I've written her off.

I have seven siblings, all of whom I love and enjoy very much. My younger brother died in May and it will always be the worst day of my life. We have been fortunate enough to be able to truly enjoy being in the company of one another, either singly or all of us.

I simply have no words for losing the one to whom I was closest. Grief is a journey but the sadness seems unabating.

Hello!! Phillywhore here; why do I keep reading this entire post; does Datalounge know that my 79 yr old half/brother called me last week to tell me he wants to talk to me!! I'm like"About what mother-fucker"! And the conversation dissolved into "WHATEVER".

I wanted to be an only child growing up.

One brother I always resented because he never had any friends so he always latched onto me. I just wanted to be my own person but it was always "the boys." I felt like any personality he had was because he stole it from me. He didn't start using certain words until I did and didn't like things until I said I liked them. We were "close" but only because I was forced to be. As my parents said, "you're all he has." I wished he would just leave me alone most of the time.

And with the other brother, everyone always fussed over how great and amazing he is and how he was destined to do great things. I knew that was the case because he was intelligent, ambitious, and was always very sociable and outgoing. But I felt like we lived in two separate worlds and didn't have much in common so we rarely even spoke most of the time. I didn't know how to relate to him and he didn't to me so I felt uncomfortable around him, especially if we were alone.

Nowadays I've come to accept them both for the most part.

r95 your brother has not abandoned you! he is right there along side of you. talk to him because he can hear you. watch for any signs, especially those that you think, oh, that didn't really happen, or did I imagine that. He will stay with you until your end and he will be there waiting for you and, he loves you very much. he's right there.

I wish people could see that there is only a veil that separates us from the other side and though they can see and hear us, it is not so easy for us to hear and see them. We have to continue on but they continue to help and protect us from the other side

I am an only child, and I thank the heavens every day, although my parents were very strict and I had no siblings to distract them.

My partner has three siblings. The oldest and youngest, both sisters, he has cut them out of his life. However, his younger brother and his husband are close to us. We just visited them in their new house.

R95, I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m sure your brother felt the joy of your unconditional love, and that’s a feeling many people never get to experience.

I'm the fourth (male) of nine, dad was a dentist, ma gave piano lessons. There's a twenty year spread in our ages, and I run the gamut from being very tight with three, estranged from one, and cordial holiday visits with the rest.

I always hoped families were putting on a performance or faking it when I visited.

But awful families are common and, although we all agree I'm special enough to deserve a performance, I am a bit too self obsessed.

Its just odd to see yelling and pounding one minute and polite conversation the next.

I'm the youngest of 3. My older(10yrs.) sister hated me which she finally admitted when drunk. She deliberately left me on a subway when I was about 7 & was always horrid to me. However, I loved & still do love her. She was a beautiful magical creature to me. She was a gifted pianist & her playing gave me some of the happiest moments of my childhood. Her playing could transport to a magical place. She became addicted to opiates later in her life & her husband overdosed her. I still get sad when I hear certain pieces of piano music that she would slay. I think, I will never have the chance to hear her play that again. When our Mom died she cheated me out of 1/2 mill. & then buried our mom in an unmarked grave, which I didn't realize for a long time. Guess she was pissed at her as well.

My older brother(8 years) was my surrogate parent. He saved my life over & over till he died a horrific death from alcohol withdrawl. I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy what he suffered. It broke me. He was also my crime partner, but that's a different story. He was a big, rangy, rawboned athletic dude who liked to cross dress & pick up guys @ bars. As his appointed personal stylist & fashion consultant, trying to get him looking good was a tough job. Fright Drag was a gift, but he wasn't having it, he wanted to look Glam. When he died the world became a much more scary & lonely place for me. I always knew that no matter how fucked up he might be with his own demons, if I picked up the phone he would go to any lengths to help me when I was in the shit.

The oldest & youngest child in my family are 11 years apart. I thought that was huge until reading some of your guys' posts.

I think we're all brainwashed into thinking that we're supposed to be close friends with our siblings. (Commercials with happy families gathered around the Thanksgiving table, etc.)

Thanks, guys, for being honest. I don't feel so alone in not being close to my siblings.

Ditto, R104. I've been struggling with this lately and I also feel less alone.

R104, it's TV and movies. Some families are close and really like each other in real life, but most of us are no better at relating to our siblings than to anyone else.

R103 your sister & brother sound tragically fascinating from your descriptions. They could be characters in a gripping drama.

Where the fuck did you grow up, r103?

I don’t mean that in a disparaging way- my own background is awful. Just fascinated with your post.

R103 - Please write a personal memoir!

103 here, I always ID. w. something I heard Stephen King supposedly said.."His books weren't fiction, he grew up in an alcoholic family." So, this sorta takes away that Oohh poor me, such a victim. I feel blest to have born into the family I was & to have had the chance to love & be loved by these people. They were part of what shaped who I am today. And it's all good.

I grew up on the move. My father was an alcoholic who thought he could outrun his disease. My mother an addict added onto her alcoholism who thought the same after my father died.

I have a younger sister, she was insuferable as a kid but then she became bearable around 12 or so, we got really close and had a very good relationship since. Then she came home drunk one day and was very disrespectful to me, we've always had our fights but she crossed a line. I think this was like 2-3 years ago and I'm still waiting for her to apologize.

Reading this thread made me miss her a lot, but I'm not tolerating princess tantrums no mo'.

My older brother and I were close growing up, and continued to stay in close contact as adults, even though I moved away from the general area we lived in after college. He stayed more local, married and has kids. I'm married, too, and everyone got along fine, though face-to-face time was limited to holidays, with a few exceptions. We kept in contact via email and instant messaging daily for years.

Suddenly, in the last 3 years, things changed. I have maybe heard from him twice a year via instant message in that time, and a face-to-face at a couple of holidays. Zero in-person since Covid hit. The change is very strange and, this far, unexplained. My parents were surprised to hear from me that the contact had nearly ceased. They see him and his family quite regularly. I actually am more frequently contacted by my niece (brother's oldest child) more often, maybe once a month.

I would ask directly why the communication is the way it is, but I'm a little scared to learn the reason (if there is one). I am 100% certain I haven't "done" anything to warrant being ghosted, unless somehow my parents said something I am not aware of that he may have taken a certain way (totally unsure what that might be). I guess it could be having teenagers and more responsibility with his kids nowadays, but it leaves me very unsettled, and for some reason I just do not want to call it out. A few times that I have pinged him "like old times" it was ignored. The only times there has been contact in the last two years was really when there was something serious (like a death of someone close to the family), but it was a message or two at most.

So... Yeah. I guess we continue like this for a while. Maybe I will learn more if the holidays this year mean the family can actually get together, assuming Covid doesn't derail things again.

My siblings are 13 years younger than me, and sadly they are both victims of degenerate online culture that is infecting so many young people. One is trans and still sleeps in the same bed with our mom when "she" goes to visit her (in her mid 20's). The other is an asexual furry. I've never really related to them much because of the age difference and the obvious mental problems.

Have 4 siblings. Only like one. My dad admits he should have stopped after me and my brother(the one that I like).

The other 3, I just can't deal with and keep my sanity. I am the oldest.

R112, I don’t want to derail the thread but my dad did something similar after Biden won. He had been very sneery, “rah rah rah” in his support of Trump for 4 years and I tolerated him. Then he abruptly cut off contact and was pretty nasty the few times I did speak to him after the 2020 election (never mentioning politics, mind you.)

Anyway, maybe politics are part of your brother’s weird behavior.

R115, politics is just a newer cowardly means of criticizing your belief system.

When the talking points are batted away, we arrive at whataboutism - a way for some people to confess they are shitty people because everyone else is shitty too.

R115, R112 here. It's a good suggestion, but my brother and I are very similar, in terms of politics. The only obvious differences between us are age (4 years), he's straight and has kids and I am gay (but married/partnered for years), and I live in a major city. I care about fashion and the arts much more than he does, and live less of a "small town" lifestyle. I have often wondered if he assumes he will be saddled with responsibility for our aging parents (they are fine right now) in the future, and resents me for not living nearby, but it seems like a longshot, unless he has done a lot of dwelling on what the future may bring. It's a tough one, and my mind sort of runs away with all of the possible reasons, but nothing is concrete or seems obvious. If I was less of a pussy I would ask, but fear it might come off as a confrontation.

R55, Sounds like my dad's brother. He literally has scammed and lied his whole life.

My grandparents had 7 living kids. All normal except for him, the youngest. The stories that came out when my grandparents died horrified me.

Stole from every job he has had. Stole mail out of the neighbors mailboxes and committed identity fraud. Stole money from my grandparents. Burglarized my aunts house and blamed my dad who was nowhere near there. Got caught panning things he Stole her and went to prison.

The worst story is when my grandfather was recuperating from double knee replacement surgeries. He went and stole all the tools my grandfather had accumulated over a lifetime. My grandmother tried to replace them, but my grandfather knew what happened.

It wasn't until my grandmother died, that we got through to my grandfather. Got a restraining order and moved him closer to everybody else. Haven't seen him in 3 decades and I hope never again. He is absolutely worthless and evil.

R79, the most I can tell you here is that everything you've described, you can do for yourself. Watch The Wizard of Oz again; you know how at the end (spoiler alert!), Dorothy realises that everything she ever needed was in her own back yard? L. Frank Baum was no dummy. Everything you need lies within yourself. Doesn't mean you don't need support but it's a good place to start. There's no reason why you can't start flexing those muscles today.

And you're very insightful and have expressed yourself very well - you should write, I'd like to read something about what your generation has been though (which has been A LOT), the contrast and tension between your place in the world and other people your age who seem to have it all figured out (hint; they'll all be losing their minds in about 10 years). Even if it's something you just do for yourself, to express all this and manifest it externally. Sometimes it really helps to see your life as a movie, a story. It's a good way to get control of it and assert your authoring of it.

But there's no reason to take yourself out of the game. As long as you're still drawing breath, the possibilities are endless. I wish you all the best with it.

^^ R70

Sadly I never really liked my late, older sister. She was always kind of a bitch to me. When she went through her final bout of cancer I thought it might bring us closer together and I was as loving and attentive and tolerant a sibling as you can imagine. I sacrificed income to spend time with her and help her. Her death was unexpected as she had been in remission for a spell. Her true nature returned too often even to the point that her husband had to question her behavior toward me. it didn't matter, in the end I just felt I was doing this for her because of our mother.

I adore my younger brother. A nicer and sincerely friendlier person you could not know. And generous to boot.

This is a moving thread. A lot of this speaks to the failure of parents to encourage loving and healthy relationships between their children. Sure, kids have different personalities and may not always gel, but it's the parents responsibility to make sure their offspring love and care about each other. What's the point of creating a family if it ends up fractured and estranged.

R121, similar thing here.

My older sister got sick. It was either meningitis or encephalitis. She was on a drip and the hospital gave her the option to go home, as long as she stayed on the drip.

I had her at my house, set up a drip station using a laundry rack, and nursed her back to health.

Afterwards, she said: "You were unemployed, anyway," blah blah blah.

My contact with her is limited, but we (siblings) recently did a Zoom meeting and this sister started talking about a great friend who did this and that for her. I reminded her about me taking care of her that time. I'm gonna keep on fucking reminding her as long as I see fit, lol.

I have one sister who is almost 10 years older than me. We haven’t spoken in 14 years.

Our temperaments and personalities are polar opposites.

R8- Why? Long term illness/health issues or was he just a SOB?

R123, you should... but maybe it's this: sometimes people have a very difficult time saying thanks for expressing emotion. I'm one of those people. My sister has been very kind to me. We don't get along as personalities but we're very loyal to each other. I find it very hard to express my gratitude. I'm almost embarrassed by it. It's very complicated. But my point is maybe your sister is really grateful she just struggles to say it. What you describe sounds like my sister and me and I know my heart, I just wish I could figure out how to open my mouth.

R54 There are barely any non-twin sibling studies in psychology. Twins, tons of, but not other siblings.

Sorry I feel this weird deed to flush out my comment above. R126. The best way to explain it is to basically say people like me, may be people like R123 's sister as well, basically like Marilla Cuthbert from Anne of Green Gables. We're tough on the outside, we're stern, we're not prone to sentimental un less we're drunk, I don't know if Marilla ever really got drunk, inside we're dying to say nice things and be loving people but something and a gruff exterior just keeps you from doing it. I hope that makes some sense. I know: MARY! or MARILLA! Take your pick. I'm just saying the iceberg might not be solid. It might just be at a loss.

I thought there quite a few studies on birth order, though.

Not really, and that's not because I don't like their personalities, but our shared toxic family history is a huge burden and it just won't ever go away. But because the five of us share the EXACT sense of humor, if they weren't family, they'd be friends.

I loathe my brother. He's a gun totin', racist, xenophobic republican (A very redundant description, I'm aware)

I suspect once my mom dies I will probably never see or talk to my brother again. We only live 30 miles apart.

I am assuming that all of the posters here are North American or British, and I can only say you should thank your lucky stars you aren't Italian, because you'd be living in the same apartment with all your disliked siblings, and your grandparents as well, until you got married, and possibly even then. How they do it without killing each other, I don't know.

I have two surviving siblings. I have no relationship with one & the other is a Trump loving, white supremist. As to the latter, I’ve made it clear that we cannot talk politics, but the dividing line is imprecise because the bitterness & resentments that inform her politics can’t be so easily cabined.

R112 Your brother may be depressed. My father went through this at a later age when we (his kids) were teenagers. Withdrawing from personal relationships is a sign of that—feeling like he and his texts are just a bother to you. You could always try a “I saw this XYZ this morning and it reminded me of you! I miss texting with you, I like knowing how your day is going.”

One is dead and the other 2 are complete trash

R122, your comment is well-put and what I would have tried to say but not as well. I realize parents are under many pressures from their own background, society, making a living, etc., but don't have children if you aren't convinced that you can show them the love your parents didn't show you. It starts at the top--abuse or love. The siblings carry on what they observe, although in my family my oldest brother was kindest and tried to be good to us eventually. First, though, he left home and cut us all off, acting like we had the plague. My parents made all kinds of efforts to give us a materially advantaged life, and succeeded, but neglected our emotional needs to the degree that all four of us were crippled in diverse ways. As I age I understand more and more and if R98 is correct, I think our relationships will be repaired someday. It's nice to think so.

I dunno, my grandparents were lovely. My mom, their daughter, was not.

This has turned out to be a wonderful thread full of our life stories. I think my problem was thinking I would have the perfect TV sitcom version of a brother relationship. It didn’t happen. And now that I’m older, it’s ok. But my heart still breaks for my mother, who wishes my brother and I were closer, I’m certain. She (and my father) is what keeps the family together. If not for them, we probably would not see one another.

[quote] But my point is maybe your sister is really grateful she just struggles to say it. What you describe sounds like my sister and me and I know my heart, I just wish I could figure out how to open my mouth.

You could write it in a card, a text, a letter. Lots of ways to say "thank you for ___; I really appreciate it." We will all die one day. What good is it to feel gratitude but never express it to the other person.

My but this thread has stirred up some long dormant emotions. I have one brother a year older and one 9 years younger ,and we were fairly close growing up even though our family was dysfunctional to the max (alcoholic,violent father,doormat mother) . By the time we hit our late teens,life took us all in different directions (and in my case different cities) so for many years I had a distant but fond relationship with both of them. I had a 12 year relationship with a guy and they never met him,and met my last long term relationship maybe twice. They both seemed very accepting of my being gay so I dont think that was ever an issue.Though my father hated it bitterly.

When my last lover died in 2011 I decided to move back to my home town to rekindle family relationships .Within 6 months I realized what a massive mistake that was. In the intervening years both my brothers turned into raging assholes (both are devout trumpers/anti vaxxers) We all realized pretty quickly we really dont like each other much,but are civil because of mother. If not for her,we wouldnt speak at all and as someone said upthread,after she dies Ive no doubt we wont. In fact,trump has taken most of my extended family members away .I had no idea how awful so many were .As soon as mother goes,Im outta my hometown and I will never come back again.

I considered moving back to my hometown r140, after leaving as a teenager and not returning until my late 30s when a parent was dying. Being back there was almost dreamlike, seeing all those streets and beaches and views and people again. In my experience most people harden as they get older. A slightly difficult 25 year old rarely become a cheerful, easy-going 45 year old. Some do, usually because life either kicks them in the ass extra hard - but most don't.

It's sort of a fact of life that older siblings tend to bully and torment the younger, especially when there's just a few years' difference.

So, have any of the older siblings here ever in the fullness of maturity apologized to the younger for their childhood behavior?

R128, re-read “The Remains of the Day”

Good question, R142. I apologized to my younger sibling. My older sibling has not apologized to me and is still a bully. Another older sibling did apologize, but only after being confronted (by me).

My younger sibling claims to have forgiven me but still reminds me that I've been hurtful. I thought long and hard about this. I conclude that our interactions over the past decade have been so minimal that there is no new hurtful thing I could have done. I've apologized for the past *and* changed my behavior. There's nothing more I can do.

Myself, I haven't had the nerve to. Even though I know it's the right thing to do. And I fear it might bring up issues best forgotten.

[quote] trump has taken most of my extended family members away .I had no idea how awful so many were

It’s often quoted that Trump cost us 600,000 lives from COVID, but how many more families have been torn apart by the monstrousness he’s revealed (I know he’s more symptom that cause, but still…). This thread has lost after post of families driven apart by the inexplicable loyalty so many have to him.

I have a weird family structure, since I was adopted by my grandmother, who’d married a man with two much older children. When I was a child I worshipped them. Now? One has drifted away and the other mistreated my mother, his step-mother, who raised him, in a way that has made him dead to me.

My birth-mother (who was also my mother’s child, remember…) was a total cunt. I am eternally grateful I didn’t grow up with her, but she had another child before cancer sent her to where cunts go after death. My half-sister and I are cordial; she just texted me for my birthday last week, but we are all but strangers and have never had a substantive conversation about anything, certainly not our weird family dynamics. I doubt we ever will. I don’t love her, but I don’t hate her either. We’re just two people who have one thing in common (a vagina, many years ago!).

After reading this thread I feel so fortunate my siblings are tight with me and each other. I'm sure it's due to our angel mother who buffered my dad's violence (also we are united in part because we had a common enemy...) with her absolute unconditional love and care. We fought amongst ourselves as kids do yet had great affection for each other and still do.

It helps too that as adult we're spread across the country, all living in different states, for various reasons. Some for school and some like me getting the hell out of Dodge. One sibling stayed near the folks. In hindsight I wish for my mom's sake we all had lived closer to her to have been able to protect her as she protected us. Our father surely shortened her life by grinding her spirit away. Family was so important to her; when I was little I had a fight with my older brother and told her that when I grew up he wasn't going to be in my family: she lost it over that, sent me to my room and told me I was to never say anything like that again, or even think like that. She always told us that the happiest days she had were spent with us.

She also had a wicked, sarcastic sense of humor which she passed on to all of us. "Turn blue" she used to say when any of us exasperated her. She had five of us in 10 years, a right little pack of smartasses. We all miss her so much. Her legacy is our friendship and regard for each other, we're in contact via our sibling chat all the time. She bound us together forever.

I grew up similar to you, OP. Except I had both a sister and a brother. I adore my sister and can't stand my brother. Though that's mostly my brother is a horrible person.

103 here. Guess I'm a bit puzzled @ throwing away people due to politics. Maybe, I'm so old that I have tangibly, viscerally experienced that love doesn't happen everyday. If I just look at the bare facts of what my siblings 'did' to me I could say, yeah, glad they are dead, hope they burn in hell, but that's not how it is for me. Even @ the time when loads of the abuse was going down there were moments when I was acutely aware of their personal suffering & pain.

I can remember my sister drunk & crying saying, I hate you, I've always hated you & I don't know why. In vino vertias ..Lots of pennies dropped & pieces of the puzzle fell into place when she said that. She kept trying to be decent, but couldn't. She really did try to love me & in some way express it. She had many demons. Yes, she deliberately lost me on a subway when I was 7, belittled & humiliated me whenever she could. Only got nice when she was addicted to Oxy & V.& thought she could get me to hit the street to get some for her after her Dr.s cut her off, even though I was then in recovery & had given up drug dealing. I still love & miss her.

Same w. my brother. Even though we had 2 gay cousins who were an out couple from the 1940's & accepted within our family & neighborhood, my brother struggled. Maybe, it was because he was also a cross dresser(no, he was not trans, don't even go there..he loved his big old dick) big, athletic. Not sure why his life was such a burden to him. His pain made him wonderful, but terrible at times as well. His ability to look at other w. understanding & compassion is something I look to as a goal. His love & devotion to me was beyond measure., but also very sick. Would I ever kick him to the curb for politics?? He was a political fiscal conservative to his dying day. Love doesn't happen everyday. Despite his demons, he was a man with an ability to love & laugh that still awes me today when I think of him, usually w. tears in my eyes

[quote]Guess I'm a bit puzzled @ throwing away people due to politics.

Offering a theory. I find, as I age, I am less resilient about withstanding different opinions rooted in ignorance. I haven't the stomach for a fight. I want peace. So I just drift away. (Being completely honest I am not sure how much longer I can really stand DL. This place has lost its mind in the last month, and it's a bad neighbourhood on its best day.) So if you are weary of the drain of dumb Trump culture, I can see how it's doubly draining if it is your family.

I'm too old to let opportunities for love & laughter to pass me by..My only regrets the love & laughter I ran away from..

No, I have two siblings. A younger sister and brother. They're both bad, selfish people. Everyone in the extended family knows what a cunt my sister is and talks about it. But nobody thinks anything about my brother. The truth is, I think he's even worse than her. He's just a lot more quiet and insidious about it, whereas she's more loud and aggressive.

I'm too old to coddle sore losers who blame everyone else for their problems.

I was there to see them consistently fuck people over each step of the way and they congratulated themselves for being clever.

The trump support is more of a creed - they believe the end justifies the means, everyone else is out to get them, and they have some bizarre birthright to always win.

I have a brother older by eight years. He was a drug addict for a good while with a very bad temper. There was a good deal of emotional and physical abuse to me and my family. He has never once said sorry for his behavior. In fact he still only sees himself as a victim. I cut off ties with him finally a few years ago. During my last visit back home pre covid. My mother invited him over for lunch. I was not happy about it. Before his arrival, my hands started to sweat and I had pressure in my chest. I'm in my mid 50's and this person still has that effect on my mind and body. I said hello to him and went back into my room. He left immediately after angry that i had done so.

Yes, I love my baby brother. Growing up I was bullied a lot for being one of the only gay kids in school. It got so bad that one point I contemplated suicide. But I didn't go through with it because I felt like my parents and brother truly loved me and I couldn't do that to them. My little brother was always one of the most gentle, loving people I've ever met. I can't recall one instance of him ever saying a bad word about anybody. We had very different interests. He was always into nerdy science and Star Trek stuff, but we still got along.

After reading all these posts, I thank fucking Christ I'm an only child!

It's startling how many gays on this site have Trumper siblings.

I always thought that having a gay sibling would make someone more tolerant toward homosexuality,

Guess not.

Nope, all three of my siblings are Trumpers, not crazy Trumpers but still Trumpers. Mainly because they are racists.

Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner at R158

Family dynamics are hard pressed to trump the distress from the late life realization that a group, whom they always were taught was inferior, in fact contains millions of people who actually know more, and speak THEIR language better, than they ever will.

[quote] I find it very hard to express my gratitude. I'm almost embarrassed by it. It's very complicated.

No it really isn't complicated. YOU have made it complicated. This is your ego and you need to grow up and get over yourself.

Just say thank you. Just say you are a great sister.

SMDH.

Fuck off, you glib bastard. You don't know enough to take a position or to tell anyone what to do. You pompous ass.

R161, LOL the truth hurts.

Way to take a great thread, R160, and DL it up. You must be fun at Christmas.

I hope you're as miserable as you seem. I have never been provoked to negative emotion by a DL cunt as I have been by you. You are probably twisted enough to be pleased.

It gets very lonely when you kick more & more people out of your life because they don't agree exactly with your opinions.. Opinion like assholes, everyone has one & they all smell. When I point my finger at others there are 4 fingers pointing back at me. God, politics is such a tiny part of my life. Not worth losing people over.

No. My brother gets on my nerves more than anyone I've ever met. Within 5 minutes of being in his presence I'm ready to slap the shit out of him and scream "Shut the fuck up!"

R165 I really hate this sort of response more than most about politics being a small issue. Never in our lifetimes have we had a president who has shown us who people are morally and ethically. Deciding to cut off relations with said people is not always a bad thing.

165 here...So grateful to be able to love & be loved. It's wonderful not to be filled w. the need to hate & ghost people for their opinions.

Says the Trump supporter

We're pretending Trump/Tea Party/Fox News fans discuss other things.

It's like talking with an Herbalife/Amway/Wealth Unlimited/Vegan - steering conversation away from the programmed gripe list is exhausting.

2 sisters. Havent spoken to the younger one in over 25 years. I like the older one enough, but we really dint have anything in common and havent spoken in about 2 years.

So, go away..Shoo, since it's so hard for you to be here & Steer conversations, you lonesome cowboy you!!

. I'm a progressive have been all my life. If not hating people who love me ¬ ghosting them for their political & other life opinions that don't agree with mine is Trump stuff..hmm, I'm confused, I thought you said, Trump stuff was all about hating those who don't look like you or agree with you & then ghosting them..taking away their voice.. I'm confused

I hate my Trumpy older brother because the political “opinions” dovetail with his homophobia, misogyny and loud nasty temper. He is condescending to all but he got his degree from Fox News. He is emotionally abusive to his wife and daughters. He bullied his “fag” brother, me, growing up.

Trump worship is the icing on the cake. The cake I tossed in the trash.

Think I’m the only one here with this issue, but since we’re all being honest...

My worry is that I’m becoming somewhat platonically emotionally-dependent on my sister. She’s been my only friend for several years, and my only good close friend for longer. I don’t really mix well with others and tend to extremely introvert and slightly autistic, so it’s overwhelming for me to go out and socialise. I guess I’m reliant on my sister to be a safe social crutch and an easy reliable outlet, because she’s used to me and knows how to get along with all my weirdness. Now we’re grown, I feel bad burdening her with my friendship, but at the same time I really can’t cut her off or let her go her own way totally, because then I’ll have no-one in my life for the foreseeable future (maybe forever).

Like tonight, my sister is at her boyfriend’s place, so I’m here posting on DL and listening to music while working out alone in my room, because who else is there to talk to and what else is there to do?

R174, what do you mean "slightly autistic"? Have you been diagnosed by a medical professional? What do you mean "all my weirdness"? Why do you feel your friendship is a "burden"? My point is that it sounds like maybe a self-esteem situation.

Do you bring anything to your relationship with your sister? Is it one-way or two-way? If it's two-way, why be so mean to yourself about it?

The "what else is there to do" comment (sister is with her boyfriend) is also WTF, IMO. I don't have a ton of hobbies, but there's got to be something to do when you're not with your sister.

You can use this Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to neutralize negative self-talk.

R175 my bad, I should have clarified. I’m diagnosed with Asperger’s (wasn’t addressed when I was a kid), and while it’s well-contained and not obvious to strangers I am slightly-eccentric and very naive when it comes to relationships.

Fwiw I agree with you and think you’re right about the esteem issue. I get in my head in social situations and can’t calm down or focus enough to handle them like a normal adult. I also feel like friendships are a lot of risk and pressure that freaks me out. Like many traumatised gays and DLers I am an overthinker, avoidant, and a pessimistic person who used to get picked on a lot.

As for it being a burden to have a relationship with me—apart from the aforementioned, I have so many social blind spots, and I make a lot of blunders with people, plus I have serious trouble standing up for myself. All this combines to mean I am not an ideal friend or partner. Sadly(?) me & my sis were already tight (and we are really good friends, 2-way st. shit) by the time we grew up and this became apparent.

CBT has been an annoying constant in my life since my Asperger’s diagnosis a few years back, and honestly I find it boring and not very effective. There are some studies that suggest it isn’t the best therapy choice for ASD people, but that’s another thread. I give affirmations a shot some days, but I just can’t truly internalise them—it’s like they lodge in my brain but never make their way to my heart, or something.

Can the person who has just popped up to tell everyone in this thread that they're shitheads who need to get over it and link to various forms of therapy please disappear? This was a rare interesting and poignant thread until you made your entrance.

R145, come on. You're afraid your apology will open the floodgates and your sibling will tell you all his/her pain over your bullying. That's why a lot of people don't apologize. It's cowardly--sorry, but it is. I told my neice, who had to grow up with my rotten brother as a dad, "I really failed you when you were a child. If you ever want to tell me your feelings about it, I will listen and I won't resent anything you want to say." If only my rotten brother had ever said that to me. It is healing to receive a sincere apology.

Do it.

This thread is fascinating from an only child's perspective, thanks for sharing!

Ive always found it interesting how my mother and her siblings (8 in all) could piss each other off without even directly speaking to each other. My fathers side is really unknown, he died when I was a kid, and it's bizarre bc there was a brother who was murdered and another estranged for atleast 40 years as he came out as gay and ? No one has ever finished that sentence (could be dead as his name was never actually said, in my presence anyway) and that's exactly all I know about my fathers brothers.

R174, my brother’s wife of 30 years was just diagnosed with Aspergers at 52. A lot of things about her suddenly make sense (she can’t pick up social cues, can’t read the room, can’t maintain friendships but has stayed married all these years). She is also very rigid on how things are done, like lunch must be eaten no later than 1 pm. She has been in therapy most of her life. Now that she has been diagnosed, it is much easier for me to accept her from a place of compassion rather than annoyance.

I am the youngest of five, two older brothers and two older sisters, although one of my sisters is only 11 months older than me. She and I are somewhat co-dependent on each other. She was my rock and lifeline when I came out in my 20s. She was a hot mess herself in her late 20s early 30s with relationship/career/money issue cycles. We talk/text multiple times a day and try to see each other at least once or twice a month (used to be daily when we lived a couple of blocks from each other. Now we are an hour apart. She got married and had kids in her late 30s and now is almost an empty nester so I feel like I am getting her attention back.

We’re close to our other siblings. We all live within an hour of each other. Our parents are the ones who moved farthest away from us all.

I truly do not like my sister.

I have three brothers and we're like the four corners of a square - we're so different. One's a truck-driving Marine, one a right-wing fireman-paramedic, one an ultra-Baptist pediatrician and then I'm an atheist computer nerd. But we get along fine, probably because we're in opposition to our crazy parents.

I disowned my worthless brother ten years ago. He is a sociopath and a lifelong criminal who has put my family through hell since he was a kid. He has always believed he is above any kind of rule or law.

He is a repeat felon, a sex offender, a thief, domestic batterer, and a general asshole who literally tried to full-on murder me with an axe once, when during one of his crazy episodes he tried to attack our mother and I stopped him. He is 41 now and lives in my parents' basement because he won't work (gets jobs then flakes on them) and my mother feels guilty about how he turned out.

I'm 48. I've worked very hard all my life, having sacrificed everything to attain a good education and a solid career. I've done very well as a musician and have lived abroad since my twenties. Several years ago, my brother started contacting me out of the blue, trying to find me because he'd heard I had money and he thought I was obligated to share with him. He threatened he was coming to find me, and I sent a terse reply warning him never to attempt to contact me again. He can't get a passport, so it seems he's run into a major wall.

If he were to die tomorrow, I wouldn't even mourn him.

Really sweet post, R155.

I just don't OP. And it's not like they are terrible people, but that whole family values thing is kind of lost on me. I just don't have much in common with them, and I don't have this big bond that I'm supposed to have. I don't particularly want to see them. I don't call them or talk to them much at all. There just is not this big thing that I'm supposed to have with them.

[quote]“Love binds, and it binds forever. Good binds while evil unravels. Separation is another word for evil; it is also another word for deceit.”

I have a weird situation. I’m youngest of 6. Two of them are dead, two I haven’t seen or spoken to in 20 years (they’re hideous creatures). That leaves one brother who I like very much along with his wife and grown children. I’m thankful for them. Both my parents are dead.

I've long thought that people are interested in the comings-and-goings of the British royal family because it confirms their own life experience: that families almost by nature are disfunctional and that siblings rarely turn out to have much in common.

My family was more like a houseful of independent flatmates. Everyone went their own way. When I was 22, I was seeing a Danish guy who said to me, 'You seem not to know what it means to be in a family', because I was not taking his obligations seriously.

Someone made an interesting point about slightly older siblings' tendency to keep the "I'm older and I'm ordering you around, telling you how things will be" attitude throughout their lives.

When my tightly wound sister -- I'm R27 -- was being a rancid clown, she was 52 and I was 49. My comment to her as she was being a jackass -- again: You're not 12 and I'm not 9.

She didn't have a helluva lot to say in response.

Wow, R189, I can relate to that. I've been with my partner for almost 30 years and now have to care intensively for him as he is getting progressively disabled, but in my family there was no model for that kind of devotion, so sometimes I get upset and don't know how I should act or feel about my obligation. Still, I'm going to do my best even with no built-in memories of how to nurture someone. For most of our partnership, we were like affectionate roommates who had sex and traveled together, gave each other complete freedom. There's not much 'family feeling' in me.

R190, I was watching some child therapist talk about that. She squarely put the blame on the parents for instilling that or allowing that kind of behavior when siblings are children.

Problem is, it's like going to your high school reunion and no matter how far you have gone from where you were years ago, it seems like everyone starts to fall into their old "roles" as the night goes on.

I used to wake my little brother up, get him dressed for school, then take him to the school bus before I had to go and do the same for myself. My little brother has his PhD now and I still want to fix his tie but at least I know where that comes from and know not to do it. (My mom ended up having to do night shifts to keep her job and my dad traveled for work when he was growing up so that became my job.)

[quote]it's like going to your high school reunion and no matter how far you have gone from where you were years ago, it seems like everyone starts to fall into their old "roles" as the night goes on.

There's always that dynamic, R192. I think that's why, having formed a relationship with my brothers mostly as adults rather than as kids (they are much older), there is affection for not much bond. It's not just that your family will always see the horrible face you ate your cereal with a spoonful of salt instead of sugar, or the time you pissed your pants in excitement, or set the rug on fire with a magnifying glass. There's a whole catalogue of those things that families sometimes have, and sometimes that's all they have. You each have your own memories of your father and sometimes they will match up perfectly, and sometimes not at all, as if there were parallel families or an act in the family play that no one told you about.

High school reunions are a little like families I suspect in that for many there's the expectation that no one every changes except to grow older. People from small towns and circles of friends from elementary and secondary school can not only not let loose of stupid or embarrassing memories or nicknames, but they can also be unforgiving of those who went away when they stayed behind — just as families resist the idea that people change from the kid who pissed his bed that time. And obviously they do it because unless you saw them with some regularity, time tends to freeze and you forget that people go away and change.

My brother and I were isolating together last year during Covid lockdown. Since neither of us could get laid, we decided we had to help each other out. Desperate times and all. There’s something kind of mystical about touching your own brother like that. I don’t know how to explain it. The first time felt sort of like meeting an alien species…it was like…wow, I can’t believe this. It was wondrous. We instinctively knew how to handle each other’s bodies. Everything fit together perfectly. And the orgasms were mind blowing. Like nothing I had ever experienced before. I never knew it could be like that. God, I miss lockdown.

Tell us more, R194. Sound like a synopsis of a porn film.

Details please, R194! How old are the two of you? Are you both gay? Had you ever fooled around as kids? What did you actually do with each other - kiss, embrace, fuck, or just hands and mouth?

Do either of you have a partner? Do you think you'll ever do it again? What is the rest of your relationship like?

Ew, the incest trolls are out now. This isn't the thread for that.

Lots of damaged DLers

You guys sound adorable, R194! Need a Dad?

Better than this depressing litany of familial dysfunction and sibling hatred, R197, R198.

R200 Westermarck effect. The idea of fucking any of my siblings is one of the grossest things I can think of. EST fetish stories are pathetic anyway, aren't there fetish threads or chatrooms for that?

[quote] Do you truly like your siblings?

How can one answer such a question?

One can give no Yes or a No reply. An answer might be suppressed over the decades into a shadowy subconsciousness.

I know that I was horrid to my brother decades ago and I cannot forgive myself.

I’m a 50 plis EG now, and I’ve been thinking about my siblings often lately. I live several times zones away and don’t see my family often. Covid had made this worse. I’m the youngest of seven and there is sixteen year gap between me and my oldest sibling. I get on really well with one sister and a brother, but I don’t have much in common with the rest, but they are nice enough people and treat me with respect. None of them have any moral failings or flaws worse than any of mine that would cause me to want to exclude them from my life. Sure, there are some annoying quirks, but oh well. Anyway, I’ve come to realise that the idea of a ‘found or created surrogate family’ has been a myth for me. Friends come and go for a variety of reasons even without drama (people move, friendships die on the vine, couples break up). These are the kinds of relationships that are more superficial. None of them are going to be there in the end like family. Anyway, my greatest regret about moving around for work despite all the exploration and adventure is the absence of my siblings and family. It’s a void.

#202, Maybe he already has forgiven you. Reach out, say sorry. Even if he is dead, say sorry with all your heart. We don't know what is beyond this veil of existence. It may help you to forgive yourself.

Someone very wise gave me this advice. They said who are you not to forgive yourself when your brother already did.

I guess I am in the minority here, but I get along great with my 5 siblings. I am the eldest. We fought a lot as kids but always had each other’s back against outsiders (our parents were hippie liberals and Democrats in a very conservative area, so that might have pushed us inwards).

During our 20s we all drifted apart because we were busy starting careers and families, but for the last decade or so we’ve become very close, even if it’s mainly in a virtual fashion, thanks to apps like Zoom and WhatsApp. Our entire Sunday is spent on our family group chat. We have two groups - one for siblings only and one for extended family, including spouses and kids. Everyone gets along and the entire days is conducted to the background of message alerts.

I really appreciate our sibling group. Apart from the fact that it’s hilarious, I get free legal, medical and construction advise from my brothers and sisters. No topic is off limits, and even when we disagree initially, we’ve found that we tend to agree down the line. I think the credit goes largely to our parents’ parenting style which was fair and somewhat detached, but we always felt individually loved and valued. My dad adored my mother and vice versa, so we had good examples.

That's wonderful R205. You are very fortunate to have that.

[quote] The idea of fucking any of my siblings is one of the grossest things I can think of.

It's a very sociopathic behavior. Not understanding or accepting boundaries can lead to very undesirable consequences. There would almost always be a power imbalance within that family dynamic. Something is seriously missing from someone who cannot see that or does not care enough to put some desire aside for the sake of something more important.

You all realize the incest troll is … a troll, right?

He’s been here for years.

R194 2/10

R194 = EST -∞

R205 That's heaven right there. I teared up reading that, happy that it exists and some people had/have it, sad for those of us who didn't. The older I get the more true it becomes that outside of close relationships, nothing really matters.

[quote] I get along great with my 5 siblings.

Tell me you’re Catholic without telling me you’re Catholic.

[quote]I was watching some child therapist talk about that. She squarely put the blame on the parents for instilling that or allowing that kind of behavior when siblings are children.

I do believe it's possible that some children come out of the womb filled with destructive impulses (towards themselves and/or towards others), but in the vast majority of cases of sibling estrangement that started in childhood, the parents are to blame. I mentioned my two siblings who loathe each other (and have since they were young teens). If you asked either one of them why they feel the way they do you would be hit with a barrage of accusations of personality disorders, sociopathy, extreme hatefulness and jealousy, violence, cruelty, selfishness etc. etc. etc. They fucking haaaate each other. I know this because both of them talk about it a lot.

Our surviving parent maintains an air of wounded bafflement around this estrangement and can often be found lamenting it. This surviving parent is also the one who has spent the last 25+ years explicitly comparing the two of them (often to their faces) and always finding the same one wanting. One can do no wrong, is a constant victim of all those who are jealous of their perfection and achievements. The other is a kind of an embarrassing loser, kind of a fuck up, never got their shit together, sigh, oh, it's just all so disappointing for our poor mother!

The truth is that both of these people are largely average human beings, not especially noteworthy in either negative or positive ways. One achieved a higher level of education than the other but I would defy anyone to get to know them both and point out any major differences. Their estrangement lies almost entirely on the shoulders of our mother, who, although she cannot admit it (including to herself), secretly enjoys (and even needs) her children clamoring and competing for her attention. My siblings continue to fight each other, well into their 40s, for the approval of the person who is basically responsible for their mutual hatred. In this one single way I'm almost thankful to be the permanent worthless piece of shit of the family. No one sees me as competition, and no one gives a shit about my wanting their attention or approval.

You see this everywhere with sibling estrangement, the parents who covertly needed it to happen for reasons of their own, who needed a conflict they could both channel their own powerful negative emotions into and at the same time appear to maintain a distance from, as if it has nothing to do with them. Someone said it above and I agree: dysfunction in families is so common it's probably the norm. It's people like R205 who are the exception. Most people are fucked up and very, very few of them have it in them not to dump the fuckery onto their children.

I love my brother. We've never has a meaningful problem between us. I wish we were closer--physically and emotionally--but I know he's always there for me and he knows I'm here for him.

R194 shut up, Cole. You sound like a girl, man.

R98 & R100, sorry it's taken me so long to say thank you. I've not read this thread for a while because it really hurt to even write the words regarding my brother's death. I've actually been exposed to people passing away, some peacefully, some quickly and tragically. It's just different with someone who is so completely part of my consciousness.

I appreciate your kind words, very rare on DL, and I thank you.

I find my mother is like an annoying friend from high school in her treatment of me. My brother is married with three kids and does not give a shit about my mother at all. Visits once every couple of years and calls once a month or so. I've always been there for her, loaned money, listened to her boring neighborhood stories for years and tried to do the right thing. Yet when the three of us are together she gangs up with him and I cop a fair amount of shit. I really don't understand it and I get pretty upset over it.

My sisters, my brother and I are in regular contact. We all live rather close to each other with one about 21/2 hours away.

Although our parents are dead, we get together for Holidays and even off-holidays.

Like all long-time human interactions, at various times (and now, as I type these words, it occurs to me simultaneously, too!) we've loved, hated, liked and disliked each other.

We've, behind each other's back, complained to one sibling about another. I've certainly been the topic between my siblings. I think that's a good thing.

I know I can know that because, fundamentally, my siblings and I are deeply bonded. They're actually good human beings, as I am. And, as another poster pointed out, while friends come and go, my siblings always will be there for me, as I will for them.

I feel very fortunate and I credit my parents.

2 and 1/2 hours away ^

My sister has chosen not to be a big part of my life. She is six years older an I and I adored her as a yound gayling. Apparently, everyone knew I was gay before I decided to announce it. When I took beloved sister aside to confide in her, personally, she ignored me and has never brought up that conversation again. Of course, that conversation may have nothing to do why she cut ties, she just may have had other problems in her life. But, I always felt I was just another problem she didn't want to deal with. We have kept in contat, somewhat, over the years. But, I never felt she liked being with me. The last time I hear from here was earlier this year when her husband died. When I wrote my condolences, she only wrote back. I just retired and my husband is dead. I sent her a pie and an invitation to visit. I'm not holding my breath.

That's too bad, R220. I imagine you brought up something for her she couldn't face, so then she couldn't have any relationship with you. Her loss. As I said earlier in the thread, my eldest brother shunned us all as if we were abnormal and only later in life, after counseling from a minister, did he seek us out. Then, though, he gave me a great gift, by telling me--the youngest and scapegoat--that I had the best intellect and emotional ability to make family decisions! It meant a lot. He also spoke with me about our mother and admitted it was probably our dad's domestic abuse that made her so crazy/manipulative. I really miss him, but have had dreams that were quite real and comforting. You can definitely talk to the 'dead' and continue a relationship, or at least that has been my subjective experience.

I'm the youngest of 5, and we get along. My sisters are from our parents' first marriages; two from Dad's and one from Mom's, My father's two are somewhat distant as they lived with their mother (who married a wonderful man and had two sons), and one from my mother's, who was the light of my childhood and I adore. The angriest (and that's saying something) I've ever been with our father was when he mistreated my sister as a step-child, but that's another story.

My brother was a people-pleaser and the kind of kid that resulted in our parents' favorite lament: Why can't you be more like your brother? That went on until I was in junior high school and wrote a short story about a kid killing himself because he could never be his brother, and my teacher calling our parents in for an emergency consultation. Of course they handled it as well as they handled everything else in our family with my father enraged that I'd "made stuff up to make him look bad". And then they wondered why, for years, my brother and I were not close.

One of my half-sisters became a Republican, and I haven't spoken to her since our father's funeral (10 years ago), so I have no idea if she's a Trumptard (but probably). The other half sister makes more of an effort to stay in touch, so we do, but we're more like cousins than siblings, and we don't discuss politics. I speak to my sister often, and my brother less-so, but she keeps us both informed of each other's lives. I love them, and am and will be there for them when needed, which is reciprocated. It is what it is.

I've often wondered about people who come from families who say, "whatever happens in the end, all you've got is family, and we'll be there for you no matter what". My experience is that my family relationships were temporary; my parents had no interest nor concept of my siblings and me past the age of 18 when we were supposed to be on our own, and they didn't help to prepare us for any future after we left their responsibility. About age 12 I started to have pretty serious emotional problems and everyone agreed that I was the "troubled middle child". My older brother was my father's favorite and it didn't help when I came out as gay.

In adulthood, my siblings' unearthed mental/personality issues came out- underneath a personable exterior, my brother is a racist rageohlic who beat his teenage son, and my sister probably has borderline personality disorder. After a number of scarring years taking care of my aging & dying mother without their help, I cut ties with both of them and haven't spoken to either in about ten years. Since I was always the mediator and the one who tried to understand the other person's point of view, I doubt I will ever hear from them ever again unless I make the first move.

I've made a lot of mistakes, but at my age (55) I refuse to go back to dredge up what happened and attempt to restore these relationships. Mostly I try to feel free from the past pain. I think people probably look down on me (damaged) when they know I am estranged from my siblings, but life isn't the Brady Bunch.

I'd watch that porn R182.

Controversial opinion follows!

As per R194, EST or not, what is so terrible about two similar-aged gay or bi brothers having sex with each other by mutual agreement? It's not as if they're going to breed Mongoloid children together. They know and trust each other, including knowing each other's health status. Since it's a private shared experience, they are likely to keep it private.

The only downside I can see is that it is condemned by society, and no matter how much they may love each other, they can never openly be partners. Also it may be upsetting to others including family if the sexual r'ship was known.

Frankly, I can think of several 'gross' or 'nauseating' ways gay men choose sex partners, eg in filthy public toilets, with anonymous men who are possibly dangerous or disease-ridden.

[quote]The only downside I can see is that it is condemned by society

Generally considered fairly persuasive.

Because incest can completely fuck over someone’s mental state and psychological wellness, and, in fact, is someone is even contemplating this to begin with, their date should be with a therapist and not their brother…

If people have incest fetishes, fine, but I seriously doubt the op was writing about something real. Consensual incest is very rare because of the Westermarck effect.

I can't think of anything more repulsive than sexual relations with my brother. It's hard to comprehend how something like that could have evolved between two siblings. Just the thought alone is utterly vile.

A twin. We loved each other immensely. Best Of friends and a connection I cannot explain. I broke my leg, he broke his arm. I found my first love, so did he. I’m gay, he’s straight. We used to send each other the same Christmas and birthday cards. It was uncanny.

I blame his death on me. I got a serious case of depression years ago for about a year. In that year, he ended his life. I still don’t understand what it was that made him do it. I was never suicidal myself. Yet something happened that push us to depression. I made it out, he didn’t. Sigh….

I am so sorry R230. I’m sure he would hate the idea of you blaming yourself. I lost a cousin in her mid-30s due to a freak health thing and so often think “why her and not me?” I let that push me to live my life in the best way I can, and to enjoy being here when she can’t be. Your brother would want only the best for you!

R230, there's nothing wrong with a profound, deep and abiding platonic love for your brother. That's an admirable thing, and I envy you. I've never had anything even remotely close to that level of intimacy.

It seems the majority of posters here have strained relationships with their siblings. It makes me feel somewhat better knowing I’m not alone.

I get the impression that the posters who haven't seen or spoken to their siblings in a long time are American. I don't think there is anything like that level of sibling estrangement in southern Europe. People have different expectations, including that no one will have your back like your family, and so you don't judge them the same way you do with friends, neighbours or colleagues and you are more careful in how you treat them.

I hate my younger brother. I dream to kill him for every time they humbled me.

[quote]I get the impression that the posters who haven't seen or spoken to their siblings in a long time are American. I don't think there is anything like that level of sibling estrangement in southern Europe.

The extent to which this is true never fails to impress me. It's a different world.

Not American either and running through in my head the people I know and cannot think of anyone who's estranged entirely from their siblings either.

America is weird and broken country. The only thing left that it's really good at is making money. I think the self-reliance DNA has mutated. It is a hyper competitive place... all about sports... winning, winning, winning. When all that matters is competition I guess nothing matters except you.

Interesting observations from R236 and R234.

I was never truly close to my siblings. There's almost 15 years between the oldest and me. I was clearly an unplanned OOPS baby.

My two oldest siblings were nice enough to me as a kid. One has died (long, sad story) and the other is now a Trumper/QAnon loon. She's taking care of our remaining parent, and I care about her, but we have a limited relationship for obvious reasons.

My brother was - the word abusive is strong but he was not a happy presence in our house and I think he's an unhappy person. We get along somewhat well as adults but we only see each other every 5 years.

I recently discovered dad fathered another kid but based on the others not sure if I should try to meet them. May be better just to let sleeping dogs lie.

R234. I'm Greek - American. I have cousins in Greece, brother and sister who have spoken to each other for over 20 years. I know plenty of others as well. They can hold a grudge very long.

R239 did you mean, have NOT spoken to each other for over 20 years?

My brother and I will never be close. The scars from our childhood with incredibly fucked up parents are too deep.

R 237. I know, I know. My siblings & family had loads of demons. I had lots of abuse, but when I needed shelter from the storm(imagine that, me Also having demons fucked up my life from time to time) they were there for me. It's how we rolled & still roll. Even thought we were American born, we were raised in very Eastern European milieu. Family may be fucked, but they are still family.

R239 Yes, sorry I meant not spoken.

I pull up this thread that ended September 2021 because I had missed it, and because (having read it all!) it is one of the most interesting, honest threads I've seen here. My take-away from the entire thread: most posters had bad to non-existent relations with their siblings. This could be a skewed sample, of course, since posters with bad to non-existent relationships with their siblings are more likely to post. However the responses were certainly "real" and for the posters the blame lies on parental indifference or favoritism, or the general atomization of American society.

I have a question, though, which was addressed but not posed: how did being gay effect your later relationships with your siblings? My hypothesis is that this childhood "secret" created a distance during childhood that later become adult estrangement.

I say this as a gay man who does not cry, but wept throughout the film Lion at the loving relationship between the young boy Saroo and his brother Guddu. My husband looked at me as if I was insane.

My only sibling is an older sister. We argue constantly and tell each other off, but we can (and do) have normal conversations with each other a couple of hours after a long and loud argument. We care about each other and worry about each other a lot, but our personalities are so different that we end up quarreling a lot. I guess we have one of those crazy sibling relationships where you love your sibling but can't live in the same house with them for too long.