Kiddo vs Toots

Always toots.

For once, Susan, have some taste.

One of my favorite Kim Susan fights when Susan and Bob slept together.

Eileen Fulton probably did the best acting of her career in that episode, R3. She is on fire, and delivers an amazing, totally believable performance.

Everyone is fabulous. How I long for those days at times.

It was a secondary role for Lisa but still a very rich one, since Bob and Lisa had so many of their own layers and years together, and it hadn't been so far in the past at that point where Lisa had last had some sort of play for Bob - if I recall correctly.

Nancy thought Kim was a bit of a slut herself for fucking Bob when he was married to her sister. That’s why she didn’t tell that trollop Susan off.

Kim and Bob and Susan in this era were ON FIRE. I loved how Kim would refer to Dan; Doug Marland knew that just because a character was dead didn't mean he or she didn't still have value.

Kathryn Hays and Marie Masters and Beverlee McKinsey were all nominated around this time for Soap Opera DIgest awards, but votes among P&G fans were split among the three and none of them made the final cut.

Nancy took care of business. Nancy, in the parlance of today, Let A Bitch Know.

Kim confided in "Mom" - Nancy took one look at Kim, mentioned "Jen" and Kim remembered, and decided to go home and change into another outfit that resembled couch upholstery to go talk to Bob.

You GO, Nancy!

Toots is always reserved for women who sleep with their sister's husbands.

R8, another great use of history.

Just once I'd like to see Quinn on B&B say: "Hey Brooke, yeah, I cheated on Eric AFTER he pushed me away. You cheated on Eric -- with RIDGE -- after discovering belief. Who are you to judge me?"

l watched the entire episode OP linked us to, and now I'm on another. Angel and Henry Lange just showed up at the Snyder Farm and Caleb is pissed. Hope there'll be an eavesdropping porch scene.

ATWt late 1985 through 1991 was GOLD; it sucked when they deal with major cast departures: Hillary, Scott Bryce, Gregg Marx, Julianne, Maggie Reed;

I thought Caleb (RIP Michael David Morrison) was miscast; he was supposed to make Holden feel inferior; those script references were soon cut.

I actually liked Heather Rattray; Ellen Stewart's brillo pad hairdo when David died was tragic.

ATWT characters who should have returned to the show full time and never did -Frannie Hughes; the Quads; Dee Stewart; Matthew Dixon; Bianca Walsh; Kirk Anderson; Christina Hughes (Don’s Daughter); and Don Hughes.

I wanted a romance between Don and Lucinda, to thrust her into Nancy’s orbit-I wanted to see Lucinda forced to help Nancy make stuffing at Thanksgiving while Lisa and Barbara made fun of her. Helen Wagner would have hated Liz Hubbard and the bitchiness would have been palpable onscreen.

The Hugheses and Stewarts who never returned past 1985 were boring and frumpy. That’s why they were never asked back.

Rewatching the Bob/Kim/Susan scenes I realized how much I disliked whatserface as Julianne's replacement.

The Bob/Susan affair was before my time but I always love watching clips of it. It was so well done.

[quote] Kim confided in "Mom" - Nancy took one look at Kim, mentioned "Jen" and Kim remembered, and decided to go home and change into another outfit that resembled couch upholstery to go talk to Bob.

Lmao at this wonderfully evocative description.

Lisa stunk up the place. Poor Eileen could never remember her lines.

The Bob/Kim/Susan story happened as Margo pulled the plug on Casey, Andy was dealing with his DUI, John’s marriage to Lucinda imploded and Barbara‘a marriage to Hal imploded. The Hugheses were firing on all cylinders that summer, and that’s when I switched from AW to ATWT.

Where was I?

My guess is pleasuring strange men at a truckstop, you tramp at r19

R18 that all sounds so good

So sick of the dumbasses who think Carly was created by Doug Marland. Marland croaked off 2 years before Carly came onscreen. Richard Culliton created Carly.

There were several really great periods under Marland where everything was cooking on all burners. 1986-1987 was another period that just soared.

Lisa was plugging up the shitter at her own clubs by ‘86 ‘87.

The world was undoubtedly still spinning around you at Boston University, r19.

Meanwhile, at around that same time in Springfield, my demonic daughter was marrying everyone with the last name of Spaulding.

Holly Lindsey always came across as such a lez.

The great thing about both Guiding Light and As the World Turns at that moment in time was that the stories were about adults we had loved for years and children of those adults (not istateens).

CBS Daytime was ON FIRE in the mid 80s to early 90s.

Love or hate B&B, the show picked a theme and stuck with it.

This is a not so well hidden soap thread, which was once upon a time, verboten. But as to the initial question,

GUUUUUUUUUUUURL is a fine interjection.

Lisa plugged up the shitter! No wonder Goutman made her stay at home and clog her own toilette.

Next time I’ll just make Ole Lucy go and grab my toilet paper!

Loved when Kim would go off on Molly.

This was near the end of the show and Kathryn Hays was FLAWLESS.

She didn't say Toots or Kiddo but she told that little hussy Katie what for! (starts mid clip around 4 or 5 minutes in)

I'm a man.

I don't talk like that.

I've been known to, after a few drinks.

Poor Linda, taking on a bit part in a Lifetime movie, and wearing Sophia Petrillo's hair.....

Dano has gotten so old. She acts old too.

ughh

Paevey looks like he's smelling cookies in that photo.

Paevey wouldn't be the first Hallmark Channel leading man who's smelled a few cookies in his day.

What kills me about that ATWT video is that it shows that it still had life in it when CBS cancelled it. They finally got the right actor for Chris. They got a wonderful character in Reid. Kim and Bob were right there. Sigh.

Sorry to report that Kathryn Hays has recently been placed in a CT facility that specializes in Alzheimer’s/dementia care.

There was a four day sale of her personal possessions last weekend in IL where she had been living. Furniture, jewelry, personal possessions, etc. were all for sale, even the dress she wore when she married Glenn Ford in 1966.

R40, That's Rex Reed's resting bitch face.

No...

R43, sorry to hear this about Kathy. Always liked her. Does she have family in Connecticut?

I met her at Union Station in DC sometime in the early '90s, when the show was still worth watching. I asked her to call me "kiddo," and she did.

That makes me sad to hear that about Kathy Hays. She seemed alert on the Locher Room last year with Don Hastings and Scott DeFrietas. I loved Kim Hughes, I think she’s one of the most underrated characters on daytime. It’s criminal that she wasn’t even nominated for an Emmy during Doug Marland’s tenure on ATWT, or when she did her 25th anniversary shows with Gillian Spencer.

R34: It sort of enrages me to see Katie given a HUGE apartment at a time when almost everyone else on the show was living at the freakin' Lakeview Hotel. And if my eyes don't deceive me, that apartment was once a single-family home that was stolen from a certain lady doc who deserved better.

R35 you’re in a soap thread, sugar tits.

There were two times I was mad about ATWT actresses not winning Emmys. The first was this Kim/Bob/Susan storyline. Kathryn Hays was flawless in the whole storyline, and gave the best performance of her soap career. The other was Eileen Fulton during the John Dixon malpractice story. The last sentence I wrote still surprises me...I never liked Fulton, and thought she was a terrible performer, all tics and mannerisms. HOWEVER, she pulled it all together for that storyline, and gave one fantastic performance, culminating in that episode where John Dixon just destroys her at their "engagement party".

R49, Katie is in Kim's kitchen in those scenes, if I'm not mistaken.

Kim (Kathryn Hays) finds the shrine Douglas Cummings erected, complete with Kim recording of "Someone To Watch Over Me"

[quote] That makes me sad to hear that about Kathy Hays. She seemed alert on the Locher Room last year with Don Hastings and Scott DeFrietas.

Well, I have to respectfully disagree. I adore her and was glad to see her, but she looked considerably thinner and you could tell there were some memory lapses here and there. At that age, it accelerates, which makes me very sad.

I would have loved to see if any ATWT bits were available in that sale.

I hope her care and her passage is a gentle one. She deserves all good things.

Michael Nader's death - and the older actors like R McDonnell from AMC - had me thinking that ATWT has so MANY older actors.

Don H, Kathy H and Liz Hubbard are all 87. Pat Bruder's 85 and I think Kathleen Widdoes and Larry Bryggman are both 82.

R55 and they’re all still alive. We could have had 11 more years with them 🙁

La Fulton will be 88 next month, in case anyone was wondering.

Our beloved Kim will be going to the great big Patterns show in the sky soon.

I knew I was forgetting someone.....and that EF was also in the same year as Don, Kathy and Liz.

This thread is as boring as As The World Turns.

Boring? I screamed and the girl in the dorm room next to mine screamed when this was aired!!!

I'm sure this photo of Jon Hensley and Danny Markel (and Michael Park) will be of interest to some.

Couldn't link to the whole deal on FB but it's on the Locher Room page.

ATWT was always the old granny boring soap.

J/K, R61. I've never watched a moment of ATWT because Another World and One Life to Live were my shows at 2pm. I keep meaning to jump into the show via old clips but I don't know where to begin. Also, I usually wind up wasting hours on GL/OLTL/EoN and others.

Can you suggest any good ATWT storylines that would familiarize me with the show/characters? Something character-driven is definitely my speed.

R61 soap perfection.

[quote]ATWT was always the old granny boring soap.

With all the drama that I brought to the show??

[quote]Can you suggest any good ATWT storylines that would familiarize me with the show/characters? Something character-driven is definitely my speed.

1. Holden knocked Julie up, and to keep that fact hidden from both Caleb and Holden (and most of the rest of Oakdale), she hid out in an apartment in some suburb of Chicago. Only Andy and Iva knew where she was. The plan was for Andy to pretend he was the father. Iva planned to adopt him. The boy became known as Aaron and the truth eventually came out that he was really Holden and Julie's son.

2. When Lisa sued John for malpractice and Andy had to testify against his father.

3. When Lucinda went to New York, discovered that Holden was alive when everyone thought he had died, and then she failed to tell the Snyders or Lily.

Thanks, R67. Is there a specific year(s) I can use during my clip search to help me find these storylines easier?

R64-the Frannie/Sabrina story from 1986-87 is a good one to watch, it gives you a lot of the backstory of the Hughes family, along with Julianne Moore playing a dual role.

Another one is Lily’s parentage-this story ran from 1985-87. Excellent acting from everyone involved.

Lastly, the 30th anniversary shows from 1986, and The episodes from 1997 with Kim in a coma and her sister Jen returning as a spirt, also give you a lot of history of the show.

R46, She has a married daughter from her first marriage who is in her sixties. I believe the daughter lives in CO, but they do have a close mother/daughter relationship.

The CT facility was chosen because that is where Kathryn's mother resided until she died and Kathryn was pleased with their quality of care. In addition to last week's possessions sale, Kathryn's IL house was recently sold for $250K.

R68, Any episode in which Jon Hensley appeared shirtless is a must see.

Thanks. I'll start with the Frannie/Sabrina storyline because I'm a fan of Julianne Moore. Seriously. :-)

I started watching ATWT back when Barbara and Tom were almost married and Dee and Annie were the lead characters, but it didn't get good until Frannie returned from Yale as Julianne Moore for the lead up to Bob and Kim's wedding. The show was great until the Hutch-Debbie / Did Darryl kill his wife era. Then it picked up right before Marland died through 1995. After that some good, some bad, depending on how much you like Carly Tenney.

What is the source about Kathy being moved to a facility?

Colleen drove, but Kathy had to breathe for the car to start.

R74 We heard it from.....a Miss Susan Stewart.

R29, you mean B&B took a theme and flogged it like a dead horse for decades.

R77, Sheila!

I'd recommend when Marland turned Barbara from Victim to Bitch. She was at her best when she had a worthy adversary. At one point , she had two: Margo and Shannon.

Where is Eileen Fulton?

R42, I agree.

They finally let the vets have a few scenes but for years leading up to ATWt's being axed I'd tune in and see the cast of Port Charles and other ABCers living in Oakdale.

Really pissed me off.

Sure, P&G wanted out of the soap biz (why tho? if it was making SOME money?) but Bloom wanted her pals in there and nothing was going to change it.

Gaskill as Dylan over on GL? Yikes. So many other horrible decisions.

If AW wouldn't have been cancelled Goutman would have eventually cast all his ABC cronies at AW.

If Doug Marland had lived and gone over to AW, he would have resurrected the Matthews clan. AW would have had another great run and may have lasted more than 35 years.

Oh FFS R83. There was no indication that Marland was ever going to AW and you have no idea what he would have done if he had gone there. Stupid fantasy.

[quote] If Doug Marland had lived and gone over to AW, he would have resurrected the Matthews clan. AW would have had another great run and may have lasted more than 35 years.

I wouldn't quite call you a "troll" but I admire your recent dedication to this idea.

Yeah, because we fucking know that Doug Marland bringing back the Matthews would make AW go on for 35 more years. lol What kind of idiot would even say that? P&G wanted out of soaps. Nothing could save them. Not even the Matthews. (Who were they again????)

Oh, I do wish The Tourist would find its way back to Hell.

"Kick in the cunt" is like female ejaculation. It makes no sense except merely as wannabe attempt to create a female counterpart to a male practice. That is, in this case, kicking a guy in his balls.

R85, I have posted it on a few threads over the years; BIG Doug fan here.

I think he needed a fresh start; Oakdale had become overrun with multi millionaires; many of whom had their own private jets but it seemed nobody had call waiting.

I look back at that anniversary week in 1989 and saw how many rich characters AW had to draw on from its past.

I wish they had; the show just got more and more unrecognizable over the years and not in a good way.

My only real issue with Doug Marland is that he's one of those daytime saints who can't do anything wrong. Even his disasters are explained away as not really his fault. Doug is in a very select group and more power to him (or to his memory). If one more person drags out Marland's rules (rules that he himself didn't even really follow) I will scream. Marland was a good writer, but like all soap writers he had his crutches and flaws. I'm not sure Marland or any other writer could have saved Another World. NBC wanted the show to be something that it was never going to be and P&G wanted out. They could have brought in Dickens and he would have failed.

I have never heard anyone say Doug could do no wrong. Everyone acknowledges the Darryl Crawford story and the Hutch-Debbie stuff didn't work. Even St. Doug himself.

And I think he admitted the casting of Glynnis O’Connor as Margo was a bad mistake, too.

Did he already know that was a mistake? Glynnis O’Connor started about a month before he died.

R89, here;

I am a huge fan of Doug's but of course not everything he did was letter perfect; I did read a story/interview with John Wesley Shipp; he said that the network or P&G said to Doug, 'hey, Doug Cummings is really popular; can you make him not be the killer or redeem him or bring him back?' and Doug was like NO, he is the KILLER; we can't change the story.

Sure, there were duds over the years -- Harry/Darryl, Hutch Debbie...but the man had far more hits than misses; Craig/Lucinda/Sierra, making Barbara a bitch; Hal/Barbara/Tom/Margo, the whole Bob and Kim and Susan story; Holden (especially his first year); Sabrina; I know I have on tape somewhere Bob telling Kim on the gondola that Sabrina was THEIR child and they were going to rescue BOTH their daughters.

That was great stuff.

Doug had an uncanny ability to read an actor’s life and make it part of their character. He had planned a huge drunk storyline with Barbara. He was going to have her get 2 DUIs and install a breathalyzer to start her car.

Doug liked his toes sucked.

I was too young to watch the Marland years but grew up hearing from mom and grandma and other family how good that era of ATWT was.

When I watch it on YouTube now, my sense is there was always a base level of quality where every day it seemed like something important happened and there was a sense of community that is hard to quantify. It is just always so watchable. For the stories themselves, there are good ones and stinkers like with any writer. I would say his biggest weakness as a writer seemed to me to be inability to separate the important information from the noise. The good stuff can sometimes get drowned out by too many dull and unimportant characters and plot points.

A kick in the cunt came right from Connie Ford's mouth. I'm sure she'd love to debate the meaning of that phrase.

I remember coming home from school and hating if it was a Daryl/Crawford day

I think Doug tried too many times at ATWT to recreate the young love dynamic that was such a hit with Lily/Holden/Dusty. Not only Hutch and Debbie but young Tess (even though Parker Posey was great) and Beau/Pam, who were about as exciting as watching paint dry.

To the show's credit, I think sometimes they'd want to cast an actor for their interesting personality - as Lemay used to do on AW - and then try to write a story around that personality. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it fell flat.

Certainly the Carolyn Crawford thing went on too long. That whole post 1988 period, where so many great actors left, was just a very fallow period. Shannon and the Harrington Brothers (zzzzz). No exciting young love. Duke Kramer, which also went on too long.

The show really came together with Ellen Dolan taking over Margo, the Bob/Kim/Susan story, and a few others.

But overall, way more hits and misses. And even a slow, rambling ATWT had more points of interest than so many other shows at the time.

Kathryn Hays has a beautiful trained Soprano Voice - perfect for Broadway. She could've been a big Broadway star

Unfortunately every musical she appeared in she was either fired out of town during previews, or the musical BOMBED

She should've written an autobiography about all the Broadway flops she has starred in.

Doug Marland was over rated! Jesus fucking christ - his time at GL was a disaster! No wonder queen Doug left in a huff.

darling!

Did Kathryn Hays die?

Would Marland have made Jensen Buchanan’s Vicky into a lush if he took over AW?

Ugh.

R106, she's in Connecticut at a center for people with dementia.

Ooops, the comment above Kathy was for R104.

that's so sad about Kathy; she powered through a Locher Room last year and I think took part in two?

thank God for Youtube; I wish the wedding DVD included the reception; Bob and Kim sang "And I love You So..." to each other; it was beautiful.

A good friend of mine, and huge soaps fan, attended the Hays sale on the fourth and final day and he purchased about a dozen items, including a few ATWT related things.

Not surprisingly, no one appeared interested in the bridal dress from the Glenn Ford wedding, which I'm surprised Kathryn kept for all these years.

I don't suppose Jon Hensley will hold an estate sale of all of his ATWT memorabilia.

Lot 43: Four pairs of Mr. Hensley's undergarments, including a Size L Bike jockstrap, and one pair of size 13 Adidas high-top sneakers......

Also Dr. Scholl’s Foot Powder.

They wanted everything gone. Even Kathy’s Soap Opera Award and the magazines where she was on the cover or interviewed.

I was never much into ATWT, but it had its moments.

Or when Liz Hubbard has her sale of soap memorabilia.

For Sale: One Soap Script reader......never used!

Mary Stuart's sale would have been fun, especially if she had a variant of the old Broadway "gypsy robe" and all the girls who played Patti had to leave a trinket.

I wonder what Liz will leave to Martha when she croaks?

Jesus Christ - Kathy Hays had gaudy jewelry.

R53: The look on Kathryn Hays' face when she see the shrine to her, made for one of the show's best storylines.

R114, Everything but the kitchen sink.

Has Don Hastings commented yet?

Kathy's sale items look like they could also be in the Things You'd Find In an Eldergay's Home thread.

(This is a good thing!)

R122, Kathryn Hays did not die.

Now that Kim's in a facility, that shameless hussy Susan Stewart better not come knocking for Bob!

Take 45 minutes and watch how a soap uses literally ever character on a show. This is brilliant. I can't imagine them doing this today or ever. This is Doug Marland at his height of brilliance. It really masterful.

Two weeks after James Stenbeck's return and the show was on FIRE

The Lisa - Ellen scene in that episode was the tits! So much great about that episode, though: the mentions of Penny and Dee, the Margo-Iva scene, Bob & Frannie.

The worst restaurant name in the history of soap opera restaurants, "The Mona Lisa".

R129, What about The Pampered Palate?

The Mona Lisa was a cheap looking set. It looked like something a community college theater department created.

I’m not old r38. I’m actually dead.

Was there ever an actual set for the Pampered Palate? I just remember it as a place where Ellen Dolan's Margo frequently ordered dinner to go. No one ever actually went there, at least not between 1989 and 1995.

I didn't watch a soap until the summer of 1988, when I caught the beginning of the Matt-Josie storyline on AW, and had to watch the next day to see what happened next. Even with no knowledge of the subtext between their two families, I found it compelling. I clicked around to ATWT when watching AW live and saw one of the most beautiful men in the history of men, Barry Kaufman. I don't remember his acting name, or his character's name. I recognized him from GQ earlier in the decade.

I didn't make a habit of watching ATWT until 1989, when I bought a second VCR so I could record both shows.

Watching this episode today that took place two years earlier than anything I'd seen before was an odd experience. Tom and Margo were played by different actors, and it was hard to remember Hilary Bailey-Smith wasn't playing Nora Hanen Buchanan. And yes, the Mona Lisa set was ugly. They revamped it by the time I started watching it.

Someone said above that they'd worked all the characters into the episode. I missed seeing Andy, Caleb, and Holden. I've always liked the gossip-as-recap scenes Marland so loved, and this episode was no exception.

Thanks to whoever posted it.

Oh, and in a thread titled "Kiddo vs. Toots," where was Kim?

R133 this was '86. Caleb didn't join the show until '88. As for the rest maybe not everyone but pretty damn close! And Gregg Marx as Tom Hughes. Swoon baby swoon. Better than boring ass Scott Holmes who collected a pay check for 20 plus years.

Lisa plugged up the shitter at The Mona Lisa.

You're certainly right about Gregg Marx, r135. Why did he leave?

And what was Mark Pinter's character's name?

R126 this is fantastic. Thanks for posting.

R137 Brian

I remember so vividly watching that episode at R126 when it was first on.

ATWT and GL were the two things in my day that were my escapes, and kept me sane and alive (and that is only a wee bit of an exaggeration, if at all).

Anyone know what's up with Jon Hensley these days?

Last time I saw him was a three day appearance years ago on B&B as a consulting physician.

Did he and the "Emily" actress divorce?

Lucinda re Barbara: "I like her! I like her! She reminds me of me!"

LMAO

R135, Scott Holmes played Liza's father in The Rink.

Wow, a rare ep with the pre Melanie Smith adult Emily, too. Colleen whatsersnatch.

Jon Hensley and Kelley Meneghan divorced quietly after the show ended. She moved back to Chicago which is where she was born and raised and he remarried and quit acting.

R144 Just makes me miss Melanie Smith though. THE definitive Emily with the sexy sultry voice ❤️

I would be the middle of a Brian McColl and Duncan McKechnie sandwich.

I know the interview with Lisa Brown and this talk show host was shared here a few threads back. Just saw this one with Carrie Nye.

I liked Carrie Nye as Susan Piper on GL.

Did Quint and Nola run their course or did they just not fit into Long and Kobe's plans?

Pam tried to write for them for a while but I don't think she had a great handle on the character(s). Nothing against Pam, I think they were really both best understood by Marland.

I think Lisa and Michael saw the writing on the wall and left. I know there was an interview with Pam I saw a few years ago, but from 1984-ish around the time Lisa and Michael left, saying she had something planned for them and was disappointed they were going. Of course Doug took Lisa to ATWT the following year(ish).

Here is the listing for her house.

What do writers do when they take over and have to write for established characters?

It's only four hours from Oakdale, r152. (Yes, apparently Illinois has a town named Oakdale.)

I was always a bigger fan of Lisa as Iva than I ever was as Lisa as Nola. I thought she was so much better as Iva Snyder Thoughts?

Very modest house considering her career

Didn’t Jon and Kelley have money problems ? He was day trading or something and she had money in a string of hair salons her family owned in Chicago?

23 significant characters in that episode: Tom, Margo, Steve, Betsy, Craig, Lucinda, James, Seth, Tonio, Barbara, Duncan, Sierra, Frannie, Bob, Iva, Ellen, David, Shannon, Earl, Lisa, Brian, John, Emma

Plus: Ambrose, Paul, Jocelyn

And mentioned: Andy, Dani, Audrey, Penny, Amy, Dee, Caleb (over a year before seen on canvas), Ellie (ditto), Holden, Lily, Beatrice, Lyla

Not accounted for: Kim, Dusty, Meg, Heather, Nancy, Roy, Casey

[quote] Anyone know what's up with Jon Hensley these days?

R141 Jon left California and resides in the Chicago area now. According to his Linkedin, he's a sales agent for ahealth insurance broker named Ideal Concepts. So if you need advice on buying a plan from United Healthcare, Blue Cross, Anthem, Aetna, Humana, etc. he's your man. .. On the personal front, he's been engaged to a blond woman (with three kids) named "Natasha" for (I believe) over a year now. He put this collage up in July.

R152, The house has been sold. In fact, the new owners were there last Sunday during the final day of the sale, urging attendees to purchase items.

I know Kathy had just moved to Princeton not long before the Locher Room appearance. I thought with the wall of windows in the background of that video that she was in a nursing home even then, but those are the same windows in that house listing.

I guess her niece or whoever thought they'd be able to care for her in Princeton, but it looks like she needs more care than is possible there. She also had the bad luck, I think, to move "home" pretty close to when COVID hit (it sold 4/2019 and I seem to remember someone posting something in Jan 2020 online that she'd just moved back). From experience with a parent w/dementia, there are many cases where the less they are physically able to interact with others accelerates the dementia.

Still, sad to sell that house again so quickly. I wonder if it was in the family before?

They may be trying to get all the stuff out of her name because Medicare/Medicaid pays for more costs that way......

So ATWT was paying pennies to the vets at the end? When Helen Wagner died, Michael Logan let it slip that she had been recurring for years.

There's a real life Pampered Palate in Chatham, Cape Cod, MA

actually, don't click on the above link for Pampered Palate; it has a FB page but the link to the restaurant cafe on that page goes to something foreign

I guess the place might have run into trouble with COVID and without Babs Ryan there to order from it.

R161 so sad.

I got her and Don Hastings' autographs on a play they'd appeared in and I have CBS photo of them in Italy for the Sabrina storyline.

They really feel like family members (they're not, I know)

My mother started to have signs of dementia but could also be perfectly lucid; she was in a home the last few years of her life but she hated being with -- whom she not so affectionately referred to as -- the "other inmates".

[quote] They really feel like family members

Oh, I know. They were my fantasy mom and dad at a time where my own parents and I had - well, the nicest thing we could call it was a strained relationship.

Jon and Kelley's son is grown now and very handsome. Not quite as devastatingly beautiful as dad, but a big strapping dude.

Recurring doesn't necessarily mean making pennies. It just means they use you as needed and you don't have a guarantee. I know a couple of actors on current shows who are "quietly" recurring and they're not making their original rate, but they're also making well above scale.

If you were going to show a clip from ATWT to a non-watcher to show why it was great, what would you show?

R168, soap stars made it hand over fist back in the 80s and 90s.

On top of generous salaries and guarantees, they had mall appearances and paid network appearances.

These days, they can still make some bucks, certainly enough to live; out to the Ivy every night for dinner? Probably not.

But they can get a great condo or house, have a nice car, nice stuff, trips.

It's a great life.

Older actors are making some money on recurring but it isn't a HUGE amount above scale.

I do think their years of experience come into play to calculate that somehow.

I hear one show -- GH -- has a favored nations clause for its vets (I think that's the right term); all the recurring vets get the same; it comes down to if they want to have somewhere to go each week and still work even tho they may not need to.

[quote]I do think their years of experience come into play to calculate that somehow.

It comes down to what they can negotiate and their worth to the overall show. I have one friend who is, like I said, "quietly" recurring who makes scale x 2 and another friend in the same situation who works enough to meet her earned eligibility for SAG health insurance.

We can assume Eileen Fulton was on a contract , because she would have run to every media outlet to complain if Goutman had dropped her to recurring.

It amused me to read Eileen’s later praise of Doug Marland, because I recall her bitching to Soap Opera Digest for years about her lack of storyline while he was head writer.

R174, after her initial reign as the first soap bitch, Fulton never really had another great storyline until the John Dixon malpractice s/l. I can still see her watching that videotape of Dixon savaging her ....at their engagement party!

Lisa worked best in a supporting role gossiping around town about everyone else’s problems. Marland used the Greek Chorus technique to wonderful effect.

R176, you know, she wore WHITE at her eighth marriage to Earl Mitchell!

Lisa was very popular for many, many years. I base a lot of this on my Grandma. We were NBC soap watchers, but if one of those show's got boring or during a commercial break, she would say, "switch over to channel 9 to see what Lisa is doing."

Basically, every show we watched had a key character that she needed to check up on like a next door neighbor.

Days was "let's see what is Julie is doing today"

Another World was "let's she what that ole Rachel is up to"

The Doctors was "It's time for Dr. Powers"

Y&R was "Mrs. Chancellor's show" and like was trending on Twitter today, it eventually became all about Victor Newman.

r68, Aaron was born in the summer of 1991, so look for episodes leading up to that date for the Iva / Julie / Andy / Holden / Aaron storyline.

Lisa sued John in 1995, IIRC.

And I'm not sure when Lucinda found Holden in New York.

R178 that is precious. This is what those evil tv execs took from us…. Heartbroken 💔

Hubbard also bitched and moaned about Doug writing for the young people while she got to make out with Craig in real time and even more in fantasies.

Unreal. Josh Taylor said once, 'wanna hear an actor complain? Give 'em a job.'

Ironically, the only two decent storylines I ever hear people mention post Doug, pre-Hogan are Lisa suing John for malpractice, and then John dumping Lisa.

Did Bette Davis love ATWT in addition to GL? She made no secret how much she loved Lisa Brown as Nola.

May 23, 1986 -- so just over 35 years ago.

Lucinda v Lisa in NY after Lucinda finds Lisa staying with Earl (on Lucy's nickel) in the big Apple.

THIS is why I loved Doug's writing and storytelling so much.

go 1:52 in, but you can't miss with Bob, Kim, Frannie, Tom and Margo leading into it.

Wasn't Bette Davis also an EDGE OF NIGHT fan? Maybe she loved all the P&G soaps. And lord knows if they had made an movie on Irna Phillips, Bette would have been sensational in it.

Tallulah Bankhead was a huge soaps fan. I can remember her guesting on Merv Griffin's afternoon talk show and marveling at the quality of the acting.

I'd forgotten that Steven Weber was on ATWT in 1986 and part of the Douglas Cummings storyline.

What a hottie he was.

For some reason I thought Douglas Marland died of a heart attack, but according to the Internet he died of complications following abdominal surgery.

I'm sure his death was a shock to the soaps world.

It was a huge shock. The surgery was apparently not at all risky.

Any kind of surgery carries risks.

I worked in the soap biz back then.

It was like...the Pope had died.

A lot of people saw what was coming; his staff would try to carry on; they wouldn't have the talent or the freedom to tell stories.

A ton of Doug's favorites were axed. The show never really recovered. The Hogan years were very good. Goutman dragged the show down to the depths and then it was canceled.

Just awful.

RIP, Doug. He was the best.

A week before he died, he went to the Digest Awards in Beverly Hills; his storyline for ATWT, Margo's HIV rape ("Margo, the good news is that Elroy Nevins was started by the police sirens coming and he withdrew and ejaculated on your thigh...") won best storyline and then He got the editor's award. He was very happy that night. Call his mother from a payphone just outside the mens' room; last time I was there the phone was gone; everyone has cell phones now.

[quote]Margo, the good news is that Elroy Nevins was started by the police sirens coming and he withdrew and ejaculated on your thigh

Yuck. Way too hardcore for daytime.

I would watch the hell out of an Irna Phillips biopic if it was well-made.

I feel like the mid '90s was the last time soaps tried to push the envelope with storylines. Leave it to Marland's ATWT to be that frank about rape. Or Claire Labine's GENERAL HOSPITAL and Michael Malone's ONE LIFE TO LIVE. After that, though, innovation usually meant ripping off what worked (Jill Farren Phelps desperately wanting to do ER and/or NYPD BLUE on ANOTHER WORLD, the SOPRANOSification of GENERAL HOSPITAL, ALL MY CHILDREN attempting to be SEX AND THE CITY) or playing it safe (looking at you, every gay storyline in the past 25 years).

[quote]Jill Farren Phelps desperately wanting to do ER and/or NYPD BLUE on ANOTHER WORLD

Yet did this result in naked male posteriors being shown on daytime TV? Not bloody likely.

I knew Doug. A wonderful guy and brilliant storyteller.

He was also a heavy smoker, and I’m sure that played a role in his inability to survive the surgery.

[quote] Yet did this result in naked male posteriors being shown on daytime TV? Not bloody likely.

Actually it did. Mike Kasnoff on WT for one. The Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson happened.

Lisa had a huge story under Marland when it was revealed she had another son with John Eldredge.

R196, Doug Davidson bared his buns on Y&R way back when.

R198, I was going to say that too, but wasn't absolutely sure, and was worried about the receipts troll.

Lines like that are really created for our beloved Connie Ford who could emote them in her sleep. And may have.

Gloria Monty cursed Doug’s surgery. She had heard how he had a picture of her engraved in his toilet and he shit on her image every time he took a dump. She got the ultimate revenge.

*startled*

*called*

no job from Marlowe at The City Times for me!

[quote] I can remember her

Damn, you're old!

[quote] guesting on Merv Griffin's afternoon talk show

Ancient fossil!

(Just kidding. But wow, that seems forever ago.)

[quote] I would watch the hell out of an Irna Phillips biopic if it was well-made.

Without delving into details, I know there have been several attempts.

I didn’t follow ATWT closely but just went to Doug Maryland’s wiki. It says that Lily’s bio Mom was Ivy Snyder but that she (Lily) was fucking Holden Snyder. Is that not incest?

Emma and Harvey Snyder adopted Iva, r205, so Holden and Lily are not biologically related, r205.

My memories of that era of ATWT is hazy but was Iva always adopted or did that change come about after Lily and Holden had great chemistry?

ATWT was a little old lady soap. Now what they should a done is replaced homely Lisa Brown with a sex goddess like Shannon Tweed, and given Iva a split personality , with her alter named Godiva with an insatiable need for BBC. Oh yeah and fire all the boring Hugheses and replace them with a new core family, the Hugecocks, with triplet sons, all lifeguards, secretly doing incest porn. Now these changes would of brought in the young demo.

I think Iva was not necessarily conceived as adopted.

Holden and Lily weren't originally conceived as a couple, either. Holden was supposed to be an adversary to Lily because of her wealth, but the original idea, if I remember correctly, was to pair Holden and Emily.

When Martha and Jon had chemistry to spare, Doug wisely rearranged the story.

If you're curious, Google Tom Casiello (a former soap writer) and Marland and look for some blog posts Tom wrote entitled Great Marland's Ghost - he posted over 4 blog posts some details of Marland's original bible for ATWT, which he found while he was there. It is very interesting to see some of the things we saw on screen AND some of the things that changed along the way.

(Like the fact that the Snyder family was originally the Holden family and that Holden Snyder was originally.....Clem Holden)

[quote] Now these changes would of brought

Fired.

The Gloria Monty photo was above the toilet in one of the downstairs guest bathrooms in dogs house.

This show got much better after Marland kicked the bucket. All those archaic group recap scenes finally stopped, and it began to feel more like a youthful, vibrant, energetic ABC show or Days. I'm probably in the minority, because I'm not over 80, but I loved the FMB era, Connor recast and all.

Are you the Drew Dixon troll, r212?

He also hated Agnes Nixon. They had a horrible falling out about Loving.

Back in the days when Lisa was the main focus of the show, whenever the actress who played her mother was unavailable, they would bring on Margaret Hamilton to substitute.

And, of course, Patrick Mulcahey has said Agnes was condescending as hell as an editor.

What exactly happened between Agnes Nixon and Doug Marland? He had no problem telling the press about his problems with Gloria Monty but he kept quiet about Agnes.

Despite Martha and Jon’s chemistry, I always found the Lily/Holden pairing-and the Snyders in general-gross. That family got too close to incest for my taste.

I think the most offensive of the Snyder family was Josh, Iva’s rapist 1st cousin, who married her sister, Meg. Yes, I know they were adopted. It’s still distasteful. And all of the Snyder siblings shared bed partners. Incest victim Angel Lange was with all three brothers, Lily was with Holden AND Caleb, Kirk dated Iva and married Ellie, John was involved with Iva and Emma, etc.

It was just a show! Get over yourself.

I don't understand how someone looked at beautiful Greek god Gregg Marx, and figured the man to replace him was THIS common frump.

R220, Groucho was his great-uncle.

R221 Thank you for that comment, which was entirely irrelevant to the point being made.

Douglas Marland 1986 interview.

Doug really was so press shy.

I think he respected Pam - understood that the network was going to try to GH-ify GL after he left and was probably glad a writer with a strong sense of character stepped in - especially after some of the other disasters like Pat Falken Smith.

Doug spoke highly of Pam.

I've said it before, but I'd have killed for a movie circa '85 with Debra Winger as a Pam Longesque soap writer.

R224, Pat's biggest contribution to GL was having a runaway house crash into Bea Reardon's boarding house. Jerry verDorn, always excellent was Ross, moved the story along explaining to Bea that the house was hers now and she could do with it what she wanted.

Pat Falken Smith created Kelly's Diner, Company, the Brady Fish Market (Mart?), which became the Brady Pub.

Does Kathy still remember her facelift, neck lift, and eye lift from 2003?

R218, and don't forget Craig Montgomery was with all three Snyder sisters...Iva, Ellie and Meg.

Doug Marland was just alright. Kind of sort of okay. He made many many mistakes.

One of the best soap writers, who doesn't get a lot of love on these threads, is Henry Slesar.

Don’t forget that Doug Marland HATED women. Hated them. He was a homosexual who did not get along with women. Doug Was a homo to the nth degree!

Well, you've sure slaughtered a sacred cow, R232 ...

Marland and Sheffer were the two head writers most lauded for their time at ATWT. Sheffer won a ton of Emmys during his tenure. He did give the show a boost when it needed it the most. And, like Marland, he knew how to use Barbara Ryan to full effect. But Marland had a long-term plan, that unfolded gradually, giving him years of good story. Sheffer had an amazing first year and a half, then totally ran out of ideas.

Recent picture of Eileen Fulton

Eileen makes doo doos in her diaper. Truth.

Eileen looks great, she reminds me of Frances McDormand in that picture

Eileen looks good in that picture.

She looks great but she must have terrible arthritis in her fingers.

Does Eileen plug up ‘the home’s’ shitter?

What picture R237?

That idiot Victoria Fuckton at SON is a mess! His name is Michael and he needs HELP! Asshole.

Watch it, kiddo.

With those weird fingers, you know that Ms. Eileen can’t wipe her own ass.

Can we go back to Kathryn’s alleged home? I grew up in an equivalent home was we were firmly lower middle class.

I don’t know what her husband did for a living, but she must have pulled down $400k+ a year at the show’s height and had a loooonnnng run.

I could understand a small yet elegant townhouse at her age but… not that.

What in the world happened to her money?

I hope she took a lot of really expensive trips around the world. I know I would.

R245 I have the feeling that her money is saved away, and that whoever her relative was in IL bought that for her, either with family money or some of Kathy's own money.

We do have to remember that Kathy lived in NY or the NY area, apparently, for some years after the show ended.

[quote] she must have pulled down $400k+ a year at the show’s height and had a loooonnnng run.

Oooh, with the deepest respect...I think that's quite an overestimation. She was well paid and perhaps even into six figures, but she was on a NYC show with a big cast, and definitely not in the Zimmer/McKinsey/Lucci/Slezak salary category. I'm not sure anyone at ATWT could be making that kind of money. A third of the show was all in the same experience/age range.

R154, when did scenes outdoors, taped in New Jersey, the cars had Illinois plates.

R245, why did you say "alleged home." In the Locher Room interview Kathy said she bought the house in Princeton because it was all on one floor, She moved here from Connecticut in 2018.

Many of those old school NYC soap actors bought apartments back in the 60s and 70s and have sold them for multiple millions over what they originally paid for them. Victoria Wyndham said she should her NYC pied-à-terre and she never has to work another day in her life and she still has an LA place and I think she still has the farm. Audrey Peters had a similar story. If they didn't buy their places, I would assume that many of those apartments were rent controlled.

I don't know anything, but I'm going to assume that Kathy sold her original house and bought this place and had money to spare.

Kathryn was also paying for or at least contributing to her mother's care in the same CT facility where she now is and that can be financially draining.

I remember Ann Miller saying in interviews that paying for her mother's care in a facility had left her strapped until Sugar Babies came along and saved her financially.

I'll bet Katherine Glass has a lovely home.

Goodness, we have quite a Kathy Hays insider here. I'd be very interested to know how they've learned all this about her homes and her family!

R184 R185 I think one reason I like soaps and I think they would appreciate is that it is one genre where ACTING lives.

R254 Great acting was seen on mainly the NY based soaps and, from what I’ve always heard, the best acted soap was Guiding Light.

Hays was definitely paid at least 250-300. I worked on the show.

Are you Doctor David Domedion, r256?

I use "kiddo" when addressing loved ones. "Toots" is for using on people in your way.

No, R257. Wasn’t in the production office for very long.

R214 without detailing the P&G thread by discussing the lesser network’s soaps, why exactly was that?

R220 I found Holmes fuckable, I just thought his Tom was bland as hell.

R234 the first few months of Sheffer were absolutely fantastic, but it did fall off the rails. I just rewatched 2000 about a year or so ago and summer thru fall 2000 is absolutely incredible and then it falls off a bit. The entire show was rejuvenated and the actors are clearly enjoying the material (CZP in particular — whose Barbara reverts to bitch on wheels form and is clearly loving every minute of it.)

I think he was not a perfect fit for the daytime soap format. He wanted to push the boundaries of what the genre would allow and would have been better suited to writing some kind of primetime soapy trash like True Blood.

I talked about my Sheffer era rewatch a bit in this thread

r256 how much did Fulton, Hubbard, and Zenk rake in? Hays had a highly publicized pay cut around early 1998.

For vets, the pay-cuts usually come in the form of guarantees. Instead of making $5000 an episode with a 3 day a week guarantee, the days get cut to 2 days a week and then 1. A few years ago, it was revealed that Melody Thomas Scott was making about $10,000 an episode and they started cutting her guarantee until she went to the press about it.

Tony Geary negotiated outs and story approval instead of raises.

I'm assuming that people like Fulton, Hubbard and Zenk got their days cut and perks taken away. During the 70s the top stars of AW got car service to the studio.

The guarantee was the sticking point when Martha Byrne left.

She'd already given them something like a 60-70 percent pay cut. She'd been such an advocate for the show, and gave up so much. Her only request in negotiations was that they basically keep her where she was. Pay her the same and feature her the same.

Sounds reasonable to me, but Goutman had a casting call out before she could even say "excuse me?"

Goutman destroyed ATWT.

[quote] Hays was definitely paid at least 250-300.

Pre 1995, maybe.

R265 were they in Brooklyn then? Probably nobody wanted to park their cars in Brooklyn in the 70s and 80s.

None of that money went to her clothing, decor or jewels.

I love Kathy but she had, I am sorry to say, some seriously terrible taste.

R266 the sad thing is that Goutman actually is a great director. I watched an episode he directed from April 2000 where Katie is held captive and forced to confess on tape to faking her stalking to get Molly fired, and it is incredibly well done with special effects that would have been impressive even for the time, let alone now when soaps have no budgets for such things.

But he was allowed to destroy ATWT for the last 11 years and nobody stopped him, and I just don’t know why. AW was canceled under his watch. Why was he allowed to fail upward? It’s sad that we all treasured this show so much and there was nobody at CBS or P&G who felt the same way. Martha was such a trooper and I don’t blame her for walking away. I think the way she’s talked about her exit in the past few years was very classy.

anyway.....

Um, rude r271.

My guess is Goutman, and I'm not defending him, knew the score and was probably able to make the types of changes the show needed to stay on as long as it did. It's common knowledge that PG wanted out and that CBS wanted those hours back. The only thing that may have bought ATWT a little more time is a move to LA.

The daytime model is currently too expensive. The way to make daytime affordable again is to go back to the 60s/70s model but there is no audience for that.

Soaps would need to go back to a 30 minute format AND air in that hour before prime time (7 Eastern/6 central) that’s dominated by Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune to work now.

[quote]Great acting was seen on mainly the NY based soaps and, from what I’ve always heard, the best acted soap was Guiding Light.

Yes, but only before they dropped the "The."

[quote]Great acting was seen on mainly the NY based soaps and, from what I’ve always heard, the best acted soap was Guiding Light.

Not even close. Secret Storm, hands down.

R272 It's not meant to be rude. That post (or similar ones) is for when the batshit crazy person I've blocked posts a few of their bits of craziness it's what makes my thread counter/watcher go back to normal.

R276 = Christina Crawford

R274 I'm with you on the 30 minutes.

Time slots won't matter so much with streaming. If you're comparing it to EastEnders it won't work here because so many stations earn their bread and butter during that times with ads and syndicated shows.

But there should be a few on in the afternoon, and then all of those repeat in late hours. Or whenever the affiliate wants.

R266, when Martha Byrne left ATWT, did the show reach out to Heather Rattray to ask her to return? When I first began watching ATWT, she was playing Lily. I actually preferred her version of Lily the best.

I really didn't HATE Noelle Beck. The writing for Lily was so terrible that she was unrecognizable as Lily, but there were moments with Liz H and later, with Jon Hensley that I really felt she was doing well.

But the way Goutie did Martha just left a bad taste in fans' mouths.

And by that point, so many characters had been recast anyway and barely resembled the originals - Craig, Dusty, Meg to name but a few. I'm surprised Ellie Snyder wasn't brought back on as a black woman.

Goutman dropped Helen Wagner to recurring around 2007/08. Michael Logan reported it in TVG when she died. And Eileen was lucky to appear once a month.

Didn't Beck end up costing the show more in salary than it would have cost to keep MB anyway? Beck was on the show an awful lot during that final year.

Who had the highest per episode rate during the last decade? Martha? Colleen? Eileen?

LOLOL

Goutman kept Eileen out of the studio because of her bowel issues.

Agree with the earlier poster about Goutman. Along with Wheeler, they are blamed for killing these shows when their end was coming regardless of who was in control and the budget cuts allowed the shows to remain on the air longer than they otherwise would have.

I’m kind of Elgar they are gone after learning that the current shows don’t even have rehearsals anymore, apparently. They just give them their blocking and do the scenes. You can’t expect much in that atmosphere.

I think Wheeler made the needed cuts and did what she needed to do, and even if the show looked like public access TV, I loved where it took most of the characters.

Goutman did what he could for a long time, but somewhere circa 2004-2005, he stopped giving a fuck, and got petty. It was nice to see a few familiar faces at the end, but some of ATWT in final years was so dark and negative, and I think he was a big reason for it.

[quote] Didn't Beck end up costing the show more in salary than it would have cost to keep MB anyway?

Beck's episode counts were within range of what Byrne had gotten during her last few years, so if Beck's per episode salary was lower, then she was costing the show less.

BYRNE:

2006 - 96 episodes (90 as Lily, 6 as Rose)

2007 - 105 episodes

2008 (four months) - 36 episodes

BECK:

2008 (eight months) - 79 episodes

2009 - 102 episodes

2010 (nine months) - 85 episodes

Fulton must have been making too much per episode. She was able to pay millions for Manhattan apartments in the mid to late 2000s.

R270, I agree that Goutman was an excellent director and wish that he had worked ALWAYS and ONLY in that capacity on ATWT. IMO his best directing work ever was the mesmerizing and terrifying episode in which Les Sweeney sets fire to Holden and Lily's house.

R269, Terrible taste in men, as well. I mean, Glenn Ford?

A friend interviewed Kathryn in her home a year ago. When Eileen Fulton's name was brought up, she said that Eileen was a fool for not agreeing to sing more on the show, which the producers wanted, and it led to her appearing less and less.

How much money did Maura West make?

They wanted her to sing? I always assumed that was to keep her happy because… it wasn’t great. But she was a fun lady as much as I knew her at the studio.

I could never get into ATWT. I esp hated the Snyder farm schtick.

Some other observations from the studio:

Some of the friendliest were Michael Swan, Melanie Smith, Andy Kavovit, Scott DeFreitas, Ming-Na Wen, Richard Burgi and Robert Tyler. Michael especially made me feel welcome but all were terrific.

Colleen Zenk in sweatshirts sans makeup was even more beautiful than as Barbara.

Hillary B Smith wasn’t very friendly but she had a baby (who I think was playing her baby) and I can’t imagine how hard it was to bring your baby to the studio and maintain focus on lines, blocking, etc.

R297, Michael Swan was dating Howard Stern's sidekick, Robin Quivers, while he was on ATWT.

R295, Eileen sang in various NYC clubs and hotels while on ATWT.

R297, I always thought Colleen should have played Natalie Wood in a biopic.

My mom got her whole sorority to switch over from GH to GL in the early 80s. It was the 4 musketeers that hooked them. My mom grew tired of GH and its increasingly absurd stories. Plus, she was just bored with it.

R298 He also dated Maggie Reed.

R297 Did you ever see frostiness between Colleen and Hillary? They had a bit of a falling out, apparently a physical fight around late 1986.

Did you ever get an eyeful of anyone? I would have loved a good closeup glimpse of Michael Swan in a towel. LOL

R268, in an interview Don Hastings spoke of driving from his home in Dutchess County, New York, picking up Helen Wagner in Mount Kisco and heading to the studio at Avenue M and East 14th Street in the Midwood section of Brooklyn. Today the studio is a self-storage.

I did extra work on the show a few times in the 1980s and all I remember was Michael Swan being all smiley and friendly and warm. Martha Byrne was OK but seemed to think she was funnier at making wiseass cracks than she actually was.

R301, I did the same thing -- switch from GH to GL. General Hospital got so ridiculous. It was one gimmicky story after the other. I sometimes watch old episodes of GL on YouTube. Diane Ballard and Lucille Wexler were two of my favorites.

[quote] Goutman did what he could for a long time, but somewhere circa 2004-2005, he stopped giving a fuck, and got petty. It was nice to see a few familiar faces at the end, but some of ATWT in final years was so dark and negative, and I think he was a big reason for it.

YES. This, exactly. It was palpable.

I'm guessing we've been M'd, girls.

Byrne was a bitch.

Not yet but is is coming. Please link to the new thread if we do get M’d. I’ll post in the Frank Grillo thread if we do.

For the production office insider...

seems BTS, the ATWT cast got along well and was close (Bailey Smith v. Zenk being the exception). Can you confirm ? Remarkable considering the BTS romances that fueled the show during that era. In one of the original Locher reunions, Kelley Menighan was in tears the entire time she was reunited w/ her co-stars.

Were you there when Michael David Morrison died so tragically ?

It seems both ATWT and GL had very close casts. I’ve also heard both shows’ casts were also close to each other, as well.

I never saw any of the CZ/HBS friction. CZ seemed close with the AP and spent a lot of time hanging in her office. HBS just came through…all business… to grab her mail and move on.

Never heard any rumors or saw any issues. Seemed pretty collegial.

Wasn’t there when Morrison died.

I did see Julianne there one day when she came back to see her pals. I’ve mentioned this before… she wasn’t anything like the peaches and cream mom we’ve come to know. Dressed in black and had her ciggies handy. Seemed like a bit of a wild child.

The CZ/HBS thing was in Digest. I can't remember if they actually said their names, or implied it. I think they implied it but said ATWT and described the storyline they were in to a T and also that one of them had hooked up with a cast member. Like, it would have been less print to just say their names because they were SO obvious.

But I remember the words "came to blows."

Thanks for the scoop from the production office...

In a recent interview, Susan Marie Snyder made reference to Morrison leading a double life -- was this well know ? I loved Jennifer Ashe and Morrison -- they were perfectly cast.

Last I saw Chris Goutman, he was at The Paley Center helping people find TV shows to watch.

I haven't sheen Chrishtopher for yearsh.

R315, I saw that Locher Room interview and I think by “a double life” she was referring to a very serious drug problem. He was probably shooting up heroin in addition to cocaine.

R318, Weren't there several actors who assumed the role of Caleb after his death?

R313 thanks for the dish

Production office: You weren’t there back in the day when Colleen had to have her dressing room away from everyone else. I’m not talking the Brooklyn studio, I’m not talking the West 57th St studio. I’m talking 402 East 76th St.

There was someone years ago who claimed to have fucked around with Morrison.

Based on the way that post was phrased I figured it was more about sex for drugs and not any secret bisexual life or anything.

[quote] Weren't there several actors who assumed the role of Caleb after his death?

I could only remember the guy that took on his role long term (Graham Winton) but there might have been someone filling in for a few shows.

The ATWT studios had to be bereft at that point. Michael and Doug Marland within weeks of each other.

I was at West 57th and Colleen seemed delightful and HBS very closed off though, as I’ve said, she was dealing with a baby so don’t know if that was usual for her.

I don’t recall Morrison when I was there but it was pretty clear from what I’ve read and heard that everyone knew he was a major partier.

Funny story. On my first day, I needed to go down to the studio and they told me that Kathleen Widdoes was going down so I should accompany her. At the time, I was all excited about the glamour of daytime TV. So while we were walking, I asked her how she liked working on the show. “It’s a job.” And she left it there.

Oh, another thing that struck me as funny. I was working on the budget (they dumped surprising things on me). To come up with it, I had to go through the current year’s expenses. I remember being shocked at finding receipts for Emma’s clothes. The poor farmer mom was wearing $300+ sweaters. It costs money to look poor!

R297: Richard Burgi is now on, "The Young and the Restless", (playing Ashland Locke), and he's never looked better.

What was with Kathleen Widdoes flashing on the set of ATWT? Like, who’d want to see Emma’s flat-as-a-Kansas prairie’s titties?

I want Burgi to dick punch me in the fartbox.

Burgi was dating Heche while on ATWT.

ATWT, or AW?

They were both on AW, but I am not sure if their time overlapped

Burgi played Chad Rollo, the only white pimp in the US besides Billy Clyde Tuggle on AMC.

Heche was on AW at the time. The way I found out they were date was because Richard has been hanging out at my desk talking to me. He left without taking his bag so I called the number we had for him to let him know and it was her distinctive voice on the outgoing message.

Hubbard is, from all accounts, a laugh riot. She also almost never remembers names. "Oh, you. I remember you."

Liz could be a handful with all of that ad libbing and business. I wonder which actor hated her the most.

Maybe Claire Bloom?

She was pretty good on the Dutch soap GTST:

Another good clip of her on GTST:

Some of the love scenes with Caleb and Julie were pretty hot. I can recall one that had them both falling onto a mattress after just having had sex and his bare chest and her bare back were drenched with perspiration. Daring stuff for daytime in the 1990s.

Kathryn said on that virtual reunion that she had appeared in over 13,000 episodes.

Is that possible?

Who were the top 5 highest paid per episode at the end?

Did ATWT have a true star like Zimmer on GL, Lucci on AMC, Hall on DOOL? I don’t think so.

Fulton in the ‘60s was that for ATWT.

Poor production assistant doesn’t go back as far. I’m back to 402 East 76th street when Meg Ryan was there. Such shit went on there.

I guess I meant when a soap star was a thing. ATWT and GL were insanely high rated from the 50s through much of the 70s but I don’t think Charita was a huge star.

R339 Not possible.

Just divide her 38 years by 13,000, and she would have had have averaged 342 episodes per year - or about 90 more per year than were actually produced.

(Perhaps she was confused with something involving 13,000, because there were a total of 13,858 episodes produced in all.)

Michael Morrison had a great frenetic energy as Caleb. Why they replaced him with a low-key utility actor like Winton is beyond me. (Although Winton was better looking...he had a great shirtless scene with Julie on their honeymoon!).

R341, there wasn't really a "star" on ATWT, but with Byrne and West as the only Lead Actress Emmy winners, I guess they would be the closest thing to it.

R344, Charita received an incredible amount of press coverage when her leg was amputated and she returned to the show.

[quote]there wasn't really a "star" on ATWT,

No soap star was bigger than ATWT’s Eileen Fulton in the ‘60s. She was so popular that CBS gave her a prime time show as Lisa.

R346, Take it from an eldergay. R342 is correct.

Graham Winton looked like a Falcon Pac porn star.

One time either Lyla or Lisa was singing in the Mona Lisa and several Oakdale citizens are seen in shadows and silhouettes; I find my eye is focusing on not the singer but a character; she's paying attention to the singer but is VIGOROUSLY eating a salad -- to distraction.

La Hubbard of course.

She stole every scene she was ever in.

From the 80s on ATWT did not have a star like Zimmer, La Lucc or Hall. Not even close.

Is it true Michelle Forbes said she would have returned to GL for a very limited time when Reva returned from the dead? Somebody said it on reddit a few weeks ago. They said she said it in an interview in the 90s. This person was looking for it. I haven’t found any mention of it but I lost the thread it was in. I figured someone here would know.

Eileen was the shit. Daytime's first real star. Even though ATWT later got a rep as a more conservative and somewhat old fashioned soap, it really changed the game when it premiered. Later, when they added Lisa, all bets were off.

In 1986, Doug had Lucinda going against Lisa and it was the bomb.

My two faves were GL and ATWT; Bob and Kim as parents; GL's Phillip as a big brother.

These characters took the place of family when you didn't have it at home.

This thread will continue for those who can post here

But for those looking for the un Muriel'd thread.....

[quote] My two faves were GL and ATWT; Bob and Kim as parents; GL's Phillip as a big brother.

Well, my fantasies about Phillip were more....carnal in nature.

On another ATWT reunion, Colleen said that one of her former husbands accused her of having romantic feelings for Andy Kavovit because she drove him home from the studio regularly.

Also, it was revealed that Scott DeFreitas had a major crush on Marie Masters during his years on ATWT.

I think Hubbard commanded a lot of respect on that set. But there were bound to be some jealousies… I mean, her character became huge. I mean, if you worked in an office and the new guy started to command all the attention, you’d likely grouse a little to your peers.

She was so popular with focus groups that the mandate for the writers when creating summer episodes was this: open with youth… or Lucinda. No exceptions.

[quote]Also, it was revealed that Scott DeFreitas had a major crush on Marie Masters during his years on ATWT.

That happens more frequently than you might think between sponsor and sponsee,

It was nice watching Hubbard on The Doctors. She was a very different actress then, but still amazingly good. Lucinda would have detested Althea.

I still giggle to think of Anna Stuart's comment that Liz turned reading from cue cards into an art form on the Doctors.

R361, Why was she able to ad lib so blatantly for years?

She said on her "reunion" with Martha Byrne that P&G objected to her appearing on camera with her glasses perched on her head, yet they condoned her going off script?

"Although Winton was better looking..."

Uh... no. He looked like Charlie Brown with that big ol' head. Michael David Morrison, on the other hand, was absolutely smoking hot.

[quote] Poor production assistant doesn’t go back as far. I’m back to 402 East 76th street when Meg Ryan was there. Such shit went on there.

No.....is it?

Could it be?

It IS!

It's VEE! Vee is in the biz, you know.

*eyeroll*

Winton today

R365, He looks like Tom Arnold's love child.

[quote] Now these changes would of brought

No one is taking a person who uses "would of" even remotely seriously.

CLICK

DIAL TONE

GOODBYE