Family of hikers mysteriously found dead on California forest trail

Deadly fumes. I know what happened here.

I was reading about this earlier. I'd assume they found some wildlife dead nearby too, otherwise I don't know why they'd be entertaining the idea that there was some kind of hazardous substance involved.

Whatever that toxic algae is -- that was alluded to in the article -- sounds worrisome.

It could’ve been natural methane or other gas that escaped from a mine.

how weird

Check for a yoga ball in his car!

Well, they sounded insufferable.

Those mountains are geologically active so they could also be volcanic. I wonder if the vegetation was dead around the site.

Earlier in the week my family of four was "hiking" on a local trail. Okay, we were walking but it was woodsy. There was a trail that was much wider and like what you would call a clearing. Lots of grass and you could see the sun well and everything. So this woman walked by us but she had a blanket draped around her. I commented to my husband that she must have escaped from a mental institution. We walked a little bit and turned around. She had spread out the blanket and was lying down on it. Not in a "just chillin'" way, but in an "I'm going to actually go to sleep here way." That trail didn't really go anywhere and we turned around and passed her again. She was still there, maybe falling asleep, alive. My husband said to me that he hoped she hadn't taken a bunch of pills. Should we have intervened? We did not.

Murder, murder, murder, dogicide.

R9, what you did was correct. You intrude if the lips are blue, they don't appear to be breathing, or if temps are ungodly.

I wonder if it was a methane bubble displacing all surface oxygen at once.

I read this last night. Mysterious. An expert nixed the CO poisoning because it would evaporate in the air and you really need an enclosed space (it's in the Daily Mail article). Possibly they went exploring in a cave and then it hit them later?

Does the poison algae seep through your skin or have to go through your nose? Unlikely the baby was submerged in water.. ?

This is downright creepy. Definitely a remote/rugged hike to bring a baby on.

As soon as a yoga instructor is mentioned, I always assume gross stupidity and obliviousness are involved.

I'm a terrible old man.

So, an Asian wife, eh? Datalounge goes "hmmmmmm"

Aliens

More Bigfoot casualties.

Dyatlov, CA

It's the presence of the infant that doesn't make any sense. Who would bring an infant on a hiking trip? Do people actually do that? Think of all the baby stuff you'd have to carry with you. Story says their car was left at the gate to the trail and bodies, along with dead dog, found on the trail in a remote area. Could be some sort of poison suicide pact by the parents. They don't always leave a note.

Potatoe salad gone bad. You have to riely carefull.

If they slept in the car with the heater on, or were running a generator on an RV they could've gassed themselves accidentally.

If mushrooms were found growing out of their eye sockets, we could blame Gaia and move on.

A dead baby AND dead dog kind of rules out food poisoning or drug overdose.

They didn’t die in the vehicle, though. They were somewhere on the trail, out in the fresh air.

R18, everything I’ve read about this story indicates it was a day hike. Lots of people take their young children hiking, myself included. There’s a lot of weirdness about the circumstances of their death, but this isn’t one of them.

Adventuring off in Northern California trails when you have an Asian wife and a baby is a kiss of death apparently!

Do we know if the dog was a rescue?

Some suggestions it was CO2 leaking from an underground geological formation.

"CO2 is heavier than air, however, and it can collect at high concentrations in the lower parts of depressions and enclosures, posing a potential danger to people. Breathing air with more than 30% CO2 can very quickly cause unconsciousness and death."

Maybe they came upon meth-type lab.

[quote] It's the presence of the infant that doesn't make any sense. Who would bring an infant on a hiking trip

Lots of people—especially in the PNW. There are many products for camping/hiking with babies and kids. Once you get the right equipment and routine down, it’s fairly easy.

Have the "Duke and Duchess of Sussex" released a statement yet? The nation needs to hear from them!

Enough R28.

It's time to close the trail or post a sign indicating the risk.

[bold]"No rescue pets, stupid babies, or yoga instructors beyond this point!"[/bold]

H.P. Lovecraft wrote a story about this.

Meso horny!

R18 I like that theory best so far. I can see a poison suicide pact. More info may come out about religion or conspiracy theories they followed, maybe. Or the tox report obviously

[quote] If they slept in the car with the heater on, or were running a generator on an RV they could've gassed themselves accidentally.

Yes. And if they tripped they may have fallen off the Golden Gate Bridge.

Neither have anything to do with this, of course, but as long as we’re spouting ridiculous scenarios not based on anything in this case….

Were they scummy motherfuckers?

How good is it for an infant to be out in heat for long periods of time? Who ARE these people?

How hot was it r37 and how long were they out there? Do you know? Or are you just trolling.

If you do have info on the weather conditions that day, if there was shade (highly probable as they were in a forest), and how they were dressed and provisions they were carrying, please link to it. Otherwise, stop trying to stir up shit.

When are they autopsied?

As soon as Dr. Michael Hunter gets done re-examining the autopsy of Liberace.

[quote] Or are you just trolling.

I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of trolling. LOL

It was me. I did it. They knew too much…especially Fido.

Big Foot

My name is Daryl.

Did they stop at Dyatlov Pass?

I also question the wisdom of taking a baby out in the heat. One year here at some outdoor summer festival a baby died from heat while strapped to daddies chest in one of those baby backpacks.

Apparently r37 and r46 never went to the beach or played outdoors in the sunshine.

Forget the dead people, check out the other stories in OP's link. Read about and watch the video of the dad who ended up wrestling the alligator at his kid's birthday party or the guy in an isolated shack who fought off a grizzly bear for days.

By the way, it's CO (carbon monoxide), not CO2 (carbon dioxide).

R49 By the way, did you actually read the link at R26? If you had, you wouldn't have posted with such know-it-all ignorance.

The nanny did it.

Bumping for the moron who just HAD to start another thread on this.

Well obviously one of the parents killed the other tow and then themselves. Poison, I presume.

Probably q nuts.

*two

[quote]Who ARE these people?

You mean who WERE these people.

H2S gas

Over 1700 people died in Cameroon in 1986 when a massive bubble of carbon dioxide exploded from a lake.

Why is it always the white guy with an Asian wife?

This would make a great springboard for an X-Files episode.

Why would you take your infant daughter on a 'forest trail', you goddamned simpletons?!

You’re the simpleton. People hike with kids all the time. I grew up hiking with my parents in the woods.....gasp! Have you ever been in a forest with trails?

Seriously, has this person never seen a baby-carrier backpack? They even make them with them with retractable sunshades (or "baby-biminis", if you will).

I've read that they were avid hikers -- so they should know better than to hike mid-day, on a blazing hot afternoon (infant or no infant). Their last known "contact" was a social media post at 6:45 am Sunday. One of them uploaded a photo of their baby-carrier backpack for their day hike. No way to know for certain, but it suggests that they left their house shortly thereafter, and hit the trail between pretty early when it was relatively cool.

But even it WAS heat-stroke, it wouldn't have hit them all -- including the dog -- simultaneously. Truly bizarre.

Wendigo.

Asian wife, eh? I wouldn’t be surprised if investigators find a massage table and some party lights nearby.

Thank god Bebe Zahara Benet made it out alive, R57!

Reading is for suckers!

If it also killed the dog, it's almost certainly not sunstroke. It was likely carbon monoxide.

Somebody on twitter was claiming they'd picked and eaten poisonous mushrooms. But dogs give a wide berth to mushrooms. Walked my dogs in forests for years, they won't touch mushrooms. They have sense.

R18 People absolutely bring their infants hiking. When I went to Glacier national park I saw plenty of babies in carriers being hauled up a fucking icy glacier.

R58 white women weep.

Suicide pact or murder suicide plus dogicide.

Are you also r10?

[quote]While investigators aren’t ruling out the possibility of the family inhaling a toxic gas from mines in the area, experts say such a scenario is highly unlikely, if not unheard of.

[quote]On Thursday, a sign appeared to be newly installed at the start of the trail used by the family warned: “Harmful algae may be present in this water.” It alerts hikers to not drink the water or eat shellfish, and to keep children and pets out of the water. Residents in the area said the sign was only recently posted after the family was found dead.

[…]

[quote]While there are several historic gold mines in the area, experts who spoke to The Chronicle on Thursday cast doubt on the idea that any noxious gases from there would be responsible for the family’s demise.

[quote]Mining lawyer Patrick Mitchell said it would take serious effort to reach a depth in any mine that would pose deadly health risks, and that’s even if they could find access.

R58 have you seen (or heard) white women lately? I don't blame them.

They're all ugly, aside from the dog.

Toxic algae seems unlikely, nobody would die so fast. Canicide, homicide, and suicide is my guess. Or gas, which would be easy to prove.

R57 fucking hell, that’s terrifying. I didn’t even know something like that was physically possible.

Fuck living near any source of water, honestly.

It was The Watchers.

R47 can't tell the difference between kiss old enough to play outside and an actual infant

People who bring their infants everywhere are too trashy to get a babysitter

R74, like white men are all saints. Didn't 60% of them vote for Trump?

The baby did it.

Are they going to do a toxicology report?

No, Rose.

[quote] The baby did it.

You may be on to something here.

Of course, being a baby he didn’t think ahead to what he would do for food without Mama’s milk and, therefore, died himself.

If only he’d thought ahead!

Climate change is causing more algae blooms and some are deadly. Dogs who have swum in algae bloom water have died. And then there's heatstroke. Did no one here read the thread about the MIT-educated, professional trail runner who died of heatstroke on a casual run? (Dogs are more sensitive to heatstroke than people, fwiw. The dog could have gone first.)

But heatstroke is not usually sudden onset. Especially of two people at what would have to be virtually the same time.

The baby farted and, as her careless parents had fed her broccoli puree, it was curtains for everyone.

The 'Rona got them.

#82 maybe..maybe not. Its getting easier for people with cash to squelch unattended death investigation.

Had to go a wake yesterday. Creepy land. The 'brand new younger wife of 3 months' who had a long odd history with the dead guy refused to let the emergency guys & ents atstempt revive the husband, who she & her 'business partner' found, 'dead'. Heart attack, can't you see he is dead, she said.( He just had some tests re: heart enzymes which we perfect.) She carried on hysterically(or splashed some cash around) till they agreed, no effort mad to revive him for at least an hour, but then he was dead..Who knew??. Then somehow got a prominent Dr. who had some experience with coroners to fight w. them, since she couldn't 'abide' the thought of an autopsy. She had her husband cremated ASAP. Had this wake within 5 days. Had no chairs, no place for people to talk to each other & congregate. In & out..keep it moving here folks, nothing to see here except loads of pics. of him & her the happy couple over the years, except they hadn't lived together for at least 20 years & only married 3 months ago.

This is not BS this is all directly from her mouth who I unfortunately know for many years. Knew she was a bit dodgy, but not this evil. Let me tell I am backing away as quietly as I can.

[quote]No, Rose.

I don't know who is insisting on doing the "Rose" meme wrong, but it's even more lame that you always WW yourself immediately after posting something like this.

Holy fuck, proofread, r89!

Know, sorry, this whole event has so fucked with my head!!

Babies are not kids. I see this, too, but then there are so many weird parents these days. It really is all about them. They want to go so they drag babies along. And if they post them on their SM accounts then the babies are lifestyle props.

I looked up the temps where they were and it doesn't seem to have been all that hot - like in the 70s. Maybe I wasn't looking at the map correctly.

reminds me of that lake in Africa from which emerged some toxic cloud which killed everybody in the village

Union Carbide anywhere around there? they killed off a whole city in India.

Jesus, r94! Can you even imagine that?

God damn.

Nah, family annihilator.

I believe Coroners can be bought just like anyone else. Look out for 'no autopsy/quickly cremated'.

Too bad you can't find out if someone cashed-in a life insurance policy on the deceased.

Anal probes by alien abductors gone too far.

Could Ina Garten have been walking in front of them on the trail while eating an enormous bucket of sauerkraut?

R100 😂😂😂

[quote] If you do have info on the weather conditions that day, if there was shade (highly probable as they were in a forest),

Here you go, R38:

[quote] Mitchell said Wednesday it is very hot at this time of year and there is little shade.

(Mitchell is the sheriff’s spokesperson.)

Haven’t there been events of poisonous gas escaping from a volcanic vent killing people?

I read a book years ago about a town that was near a volcano. Gas escaped through a fissure. A bunch of people nearby died.

Maybe what r94 referred to?

[quote] Maybe what [R94] referred to?

Apparently R94 didn’t read the thread. Already posted by R57.

They were well prepared and still died. Toxicology report has to show something was amiss. Very strange...

[quote]I looked up the temps where they were and it doesn't seem to have been all that hot - like in the 70s.

If you searched Mariposa on Wunderground it gives you Fresno Yosemite Airport, which is about 80 miles away. According to the latest SF Chronicle article (link in next post):

[quote]it was 107 to 109 degrees Sunday afternoon when officials believe they hiked.

I tend to believe that because they were found closer to Yosemite Valley than to downtown Mariposa. There was a heat advisory that day and the afternoon high in Yosemite Valley was projected to be 110.

[quote]About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail. The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese said they believe the family was returning to their truck.

[quote]A cell phone was in Gerrish’s pocket. There is little to no cell coverage on that section of trail. Investigators are trying to determine if the phone saved any failed text message drafts, attempted calls or photos, along with GPS location data, Briese said.

[quote]The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said. They sent the water for testing. There was no indication whether the family had been swimming, as they would have dried off by the time they were found, he said.

[quote]Two deputies slept near the family that night to ensure that no one tampered with the scene. The family was airlifted off the trail the next morning by a CHP helicopter.

[quote]Briese said they are investigating all possibilities to start eliminating options. While temperatures were scorching Sunday afternoon, dehydration seemed like a long shot, with their pet dying and the camelback still containing water. On Friday, investigators combed the lower section of the trail for unreported mines, but experts said it likely would take an exposure inside a mine shaft to kill a family. Investigators also took samples of bacteria blooms along the south fork of the Merced River and Snyder Creek, which run adjacent to the trail. Briese said they would also test for any other possible contamination in the water.

“Two deputies slept near the family that night to ensure that no one tampered with the scene.”

That is one job I wouldn’t like to have.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It could be heat. Heatstroke is different than dehydration. I learned alot about heatstroke from the thread on Philip Kreycik, the very experience trail runner who died on a casual short run because he didn't understand the microclimates of the park he'd chosen. Heatstroke leaves no signs in the deceased. Before they die, they make poor decisions, are confused and delusional. Water won't work. The only way to be saved is to immerse your body in water or somehow cool your body and fast.

Homicide? No trauma, no blood? That doesn't make sense unless it was some sort of poison. I still say heatstroke.

I see the heatstroke trolls are back. Do you get paid to come here and post?

Do you R113? Heatstroke is a viable opinion. What's yours?

R111 would you prefer vampires, aliens, Chinese laser attack, or murder-suicide? Speak up!

ooops, I meant R113. He got me rattled.

Very likely poison gas. It happened a lot in other places around the world.

How did the rescuers not get sick and die?

This story is so creepy. I love it.

[quote] team found the family in the middle of the trail. The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill.

Sounds like hubby (carrying the baby) sat down to rest with the dog while the wife walked a little further down the trail, then they all just dropped dead. What in the world happened??

If it was some sort of gas R118 I would assume it dissipated by the time rescuers got there. This may be another Mary Celeste situation where we may never know exactly what happened.

Maybe the husband said he wasn't feeling well, sat down and the wife said she go and get help and then they all just died for whatever reason. Too bad these trails don't have cams set up. A lot of parks have wildlife cameras.

Was the husband or the wife the hazardous substance?

If they think it's homicide, then it's probably a murder-suicide thing by poisoning.

Sounds ominous

Toxic algae? It’s not like they’re gonna swim in the river or drink it.

What it boils down to is something that could kill all four of them—that’s including a baby and a dog—without alarming the parents. Was this near any forest fires? Was there any kind of spraying for insect control?

I am never leaving my apartment.

A large gathering of bears stuffing themselves with massive quantities of beans and franks, followed by a drinking game involving kegs of beer and massive farting.

The deceased doggy. She was a cutie.

Really odd that they were in the middle of the trail too. If they were overheated or getting sick you would think they'd have found a tree in the shade to rest against. It's like they were just moving and bam they were dead.

They should have been wearing their face masks.

The husband did it.

It was their Buddhist Lama, Marty, who sold them the water.

Heatstroke wouldn't have taken them all out at the same time. The dog would have crawled off, at the very least.

It sounds like they weren't feeling well and sat down, and the wife was the only one well enough to keep trying to go forward. The others may have become unconscious first and she went ahead to try to get help before she was overcome as well.

The idea of there being some kind of pesticide spray is an interesting one.

Was the government doing any secretive shit up there that day?

Any beefs with neighbors? Slow poison in their food supply?

There was a bizarre murder case about warring neighbors and one of them was a weird MENSA member and he started putting poison in their sodas somehow.

I know this isn't the correct thread for this but I think guys who marry Asian women tend to be looking for perfection. A perfect life. Not necessarily gay but can be. Asian women always have good hair and don't look sloppy.

Asian wives tend to controlling harridans too.

They were “mysteriously found dead?” So what … was Stevie Nicks gliding through the forest three feet off the ground singing Rhiannon and suddenly she found a pile of corpses?

It seems like they were gassed.

Based on the photos at R110 they looked like a happy family, I hope this mystery is solved soon.

[quote]There was a bizarre murder case about warring neighbors and one of them was a weird MENSA member and he started putting poison in their sodas somehow.

What? I have to look this one up...

Whoa, R135.

[quote] This may be another Mary Celeste situation

The pizza lady?!

“ I figured it was an inversion layer that caused toxic gasses to be trapped at ground level, its more common than people think, usually kills wildlife along creeks where outgassing is common”

“ Harmful algae and cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) can produce toxins (poisons) that can make people and animals sick and affect the environment. ... Algae and cyanobacteria can rapidly grow out of control, or “bloom,” WHEN WATER IS WARM, slow-moving, and full of nutrients.”

David Paulides is rubbing his hands together as I type this.

Too many “happy” social media posts. Always a bad sign. Truly happy people don’t need to broadcast their bliss. I suspect murder-suicide, maybe with fentanyl. The do treat it like a homicide now.

Maybe they passed a hiker with deadly gaseous farts.

[quote] Too many “happy” social media posts. Always a bad sign. Truly happy people don’t need to broadcast their bliss.

So you’d prefer people post negative things on their social media? Not happy moments they have, such as vacations and the like?

R146, that was a little funny the first several times we heard a fart joke.

GOD DAMN VEGAN DIET!!!!

I am never going hiking.

[quote]Too many “happy” social media posts. Always a bad sign.

How about the people who post “happy” social media posts who aren’t dead? Appearing happy on social media doesn’t necessarily mean a marriage is troubled or a person is doomed. JFC.

The husband had worked for Google and recently started working for Snapchat. It was inevitable.

I don't see why it's now being treated as a homicide, according to the above linked article.

Apparently there is no obvious sign of trauma to any of the bodies, so what would point towards homicide? Unless there's evidence they haven't released to the public yet.

Muji is a really stupid name. I don't know for sure in Chinese, but in Japanese "mu" has one basic meaning: "nothing" or "without." I am almost certain it doesn't have other connotations in Chinese either. It's a totally inappropriate character for a name. People might think of the brand "Muji" but that's short for "mujirushi" (no-mark) and that's a brand. As a girl's name, this is just terrible.

Sorry, but which article says they're calling it homicide now? I haven't seen that in articles I've read and I thought I'd read all fo these. Articles published today are still saying it may have been toxic algae. What am I missing?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R154 the dead wife was Korean so she was likely trying to play cutesy with pseudo-Japanese names that are popular among certain Californian techie circles. But I agree, Muji is pretty bad.

r157, oh, ok. Even in Korea "mu" has no other real meanings. Sometimes in Japanese or Korean "mu" has a military connotation (it can be the "bu" in "bushido." I wonder if she's actually Korean-Korean. If so, the murderers could have been her parents embarrassed by such a bad name.

I guess the Fresno Bee reported that the sheriff said they were treating the coroner's investigation as a homicide, but that doesn't make sense, and it's not the same as "now being treated as a homicide" as others in the thread claimed.

I don't even know what they mean by that. Officials keep saying there was no indication of injury and the autopsies found nothing so far, so what's with the "right now, we're treating the coroner investigation as a homicide" bit?

R158 There are a lot of white/ Asian couples and marriages in California, especially in the Bay Area. It’s pretty much the norm here. I’ve come across Korra, Sakura, and other anime/ made-up Japanese names, most of the kids’ parents are in their 30s.

Does the toxic algae gas come out of a creek? I have never heard of anyone dying from this in California.

It was heatstroke, I think. It was 107 degrees that day. People do not seem to understand how much hotter it is now with global warming and people who are not use to humidity and microclimates are dying from this. I had a heatstroke. My I was given first aid, cooling, wet towels, ice packs, for 15 to 20 minutes before the EMT's arrived. My temp was still 105 after being iced. It happens so fast, is so deadly. You just can't move. I could not get up. My heart was racing, I was confused, and so, so weak. I was lucky to have had help. Death by heatstroke means your organs literally melt. They cook. This article explains it in detail.

It's the new Dyatlov.

Haven’t heard that one yet.

Not at r17, or even r45.

Nope.

You’re the very epitome of hee-larity.

👽 You must obey.

Or you will pay.

[quote]Muji is a really stupid name.

At least Muji was only the middle name. She could have insisted on Aurelia when she was old enough to speak.

For Bay Areans, the usual Asian wife BS doesn't count- it's as common as white basically. Or they want it to be, not being racist but it doesn't carry the same ... connotations y'all want it to.

He is British, so may not understand how hot it gets. Lends credence to heatstroke... but they're different sizes.

Now I think it's homicide- he's 45, switched jobs as a low level techie, she's a Cal grad who now just teaches yoga (no money) and everyone is so competitive. They love to travel but are saddled with the baby, who now needs either daycare or for her to stay at home... it reeks of family annihilation.

Are there dingoes in Northern California?

Even with heat exhaustion it’s unusual for three people and a dog to all die at the same time.

Were the double vaccinated against the COVID?

Looking at their Instagram pics on the Daily Mail, they are so happy, just thrilled with each other. Makes me very suspicious.

[quote]Bay Areans

Oh, dear.

R172, it's a portmanteau, you cretin.

Could it have been electricity? Like a lightning or a strong electricity charge in the ground? That's certainly something that can kill a family and a dog all at once.

I wonder what kind of accident it was that resulted in TBI. She also referenced it on Insta.

[quote]Its been a long road but I'm so grateful to be here! 12 yrs ago, I had my first yoga session during a dark and lost time in my life, and it has been yoga over and over again that has guided me to see my light within.

r174 there would be visible damage to bodies (charring, etc) and also on the ground around them.

[quote]Now I think it's homicide- he's 45, switched jobs as a low level techie, she's a Cal grad who now just teaches yoga (no money) and everyone is so competitive. They love to travel but are saddled with the baby, who now needs either daycare or for her to stay at home... it reeks of family annihilation.

You think so? How could they afford to do so much international travel with no money?

Per the article at R110:

[quote]Chung is originally from Orange, California. She was earning her Masters in Counseling Psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies after having graduated from University of California, Berkley in 2012. She was a sister of Alpha Chi Omega. Chung practiced yoga and taught Hatha and Prenatal yoga classes, according to her Instagram.

Per the article linked below:

[quote]A friend of Gerrish and Chung’s said off-camera that the couple owned multiple rental properties in Mariposa.

I did a search on yoga instructor salaries:

[quote]As of Aug 14, 2021, the average annual pay for a Yoga Teacher in San Francisco is $78,658 an year. Just in case you need a simple salary calculator, that works out to be approximately $37.82 an hour. This is the equivalent of $1,513/week or $6,555/month.

[quote]While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $152,773 and as low as $49,754, the majority of Yoga Teacher salaries currently range between $60,875 (25th percentile) to $93,654 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $141,066 annually in San Francisco.

[quote] As of Aug 14, 2021, the average annual pay for a Yoga Teacher in San Francisco is $78,658 an year.

Well, turns out college really was a waste of time and money.

Homicide then suicide? With what possible device? (The Hong Kong yoga ball murderer was an academic anesthesiologist who had access to pure carbon monoxide, which was contained within a car, not open air.)

$78k won’t get you shit in the Bay Area. A combined salary of $200k in the Bay Area would make them middle class, not upper-middle class but solidly middle-class.

Salary + rental income.

Another dead hiker with an Asian wife. What gives?

R182 that’s assuming they own the rental properties outright and pocket the rental income. Also, we’re talking about Mariposa County here, not the Bay Area. Mariposa County is basically a lot of poor, white people; average annual household income of less than $35k.

Who is left to benefit from a GoFundMe appeal for them?

R185 Gloria Allred is already on it!

“The dingo ate all of us!”

I've backpacked in the Sierra and you need ample H20 to stay hydrated, especially at those temperatures. Heatstroke sounds the most likely. And whoever said dogs would crawl away... don't dogs stay with their owners to protect them?

[quote]Mariposa County is basically a lot of poor, white people; average annual household income of less than $35k.

Airbnb + Yosemite tourists

[quote] you need ample H20 to stay hydrated,

Oh, that’s just silly.

All you need is some water.

I don't think a dog would stay by its dead owners to "protect" them if they died from heat stroke.

I just don't see a dog dying from heat stroke if it's out in the open in a forest and able to run to somewhere cooler. Was the dog tied up somehow?

How far were they from their car? Like minutes? hours?

The poor dog was a cutie.

How would CO poisoning work? Would you slowly fall 'asleep'/unconscious without even realizing the gas and then die? Or would you be overwhelmed within a second or two?

Depending on concentration of the gas, both CO and CO2 can very quickly lead to first unconsciousness then death.

The father took off his shoes. That’s what killed them.

The dog was adorable 😍 - does anyone know the breed?

a mixed breed probably chow and shepard, maybe some border collie

An Instagram post has the tag Australian Shepherd

R192: According to the linked article, they were found about 1.5 miles from their car./the trailhead. I fiddled around with Google Earth & directions. It estimated 47- 48 minutes walking time, if they were heading back (uphill) to the trailhead.

Hmm, can't seem to link the Sacramento Bee. It's a good article. ( Title: "Here’s where the Mariposa family was mysteriously found dead in the Sierra near Yosemite")

DL has decided not show show Instagram image previews anymore, there are a lot of pictures of Oski @ echungster

r199 that is NOT an Australian Shepard

They are now saying it was murder

that's how it's tagged, R203

You can always tell a man by his dog. A cliche but it's true. That is obviously a very nice doggie.

We’re they vaccinated?

The wife did it. She was obviously upset by the husband's love of the dog and the baby over her. Ever seen Leave Her to Heaven?

Based on her Instagram the wife had the dog for years before she met the husband.

Then I stand corrected. Obviously the hubby was the bad interloper.

R204 who's "they?" and do you have a link to the article in which this is stated?

[quote]The Mariposa County Coroner is awaiting toxicology results as investigators continue to comb the scene for possible clues. Those results are expected to take at least two to three weeks.

[quote]A necropsy is being conducted on Oksi, the family dog, Mitchell said, adding that there were no other animals found deceased in the immediate area.

It was the Rapture

Maybe it was one of those sonic booms?

Murder? It would have been a very professional hit job. And what professional hit team would take the risk of exposure by parking then walking 45 minutes each way to the site?

At this point shouldn't we all hope that the cause remains a mystery? Whatever ends up being determined the cause can't be as exciting as musing about the mystery.

I strongly doubt heat stroke would have killed all three of them including the dog.

Why R217? Imagine the baby shows signs of heatstroke first. (Because children are more susceptible than adults, as are dogs from what I understand.) So the baby's sick, the dog is sick. The parents start rushing to the car to save baby and dog, and then they are overcome. Baby dies. Parents are fading away and grief stricken. It's a horrible scenario. Heatstroke is the one thing that could have killed them all, imo.

[quote]At this point shouldn't we all hope that the cause remains a mystery? Whatever ends up being determined the cause can't be as exciting as musing about the mystery.

The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last.

I’ve seen the Dyatlov Pass comparison, and now that this is a homicide investigation, this being DL, my theory is a Russian soft butch sous chef.

It’s the same guys that killed Alan White, the Dallas A-gay. The parallels are astonishing.

Why aren't the autopsy results in?

why are they saying it's murder?

R219 gets a REAL W&W!

What’s an “echungster”? Is this code for sizemeat verificatia?

Jimmmmmyyyyy!!!!!

R226, you fucker, you! You don't bother with nobody in this thread and now here you are. Fucking scum.

You should have kept your mouth shut, R227.

Brian Baranski is on his way, you fucker!

[quote] Based on the photos at [R110] they looked like a happy family,

You can't tell anything from photos especially ones for public consumption.

Never, ever try to assess someone else's relationship. People are masters of deception - often self-deception.

The more I read the more pissed I am that they brought that baby with them. WTF is wrong with people that they think babies can go everywhere. And in those temperatures?

Unless of course it was planned to do away with the entire family, then good plan.

Korean families go NUTS on first birthdays for their kids. I'd say the photo in OP is from the first birthday party. Probably broke the bank, hence the infanticide/double suicide.

[quote]R69 People absolutely bring their infants hiking. When I went to Glacier national park I saw plenty of babies in carriers being hauled up a fucking icy glacier.

#SherpaParenting

R233, they're still idiots.

Damn how hard is it to get your kid raised and keep it alive. Like that's Number One in the Raising Your Kid Handbook. They barely made it to one year.

That’s sad. That’s a cute baby and I think most of them are hideous.

I understood the "homicide investigation" just as a formality--they have to tick a box on the form and since there was no evidence of a natural cause (yet), that's what they chose.

I think it was heatstroke--if it was really in the 100s, could they have had enough water for everyone? How long and arduous is that hike? Or family annihilation--apparently the wife had previously had mental health issues, according to what someone posted above about her yoga revelation.

Wouldn't heat stroke show up in the autopsy? They make it sound like the autopsy didn't indicate cause of death and now they are looking at toxicology reports.

A woman was found dead in my family's horse pasture, the coroner stated the cause was a heat stroke two days later.

Labeling this a homicide may boost the investigation protocols and expand the resources available to the department.

For toxicology or some other results don't they have to wait for blood gas work and IIRC the blood gasses are released over time after body cells die - e.g. a heart attack kills heart cells and the dead cells release gases into the blood and some gases show up at different times - like 24 hours after, 48 hours for other cells and longer for some others. Maybe that's how some of this works. But what do I know I just play a lab tech on my computer. Just call me Elizabeth Holmes.

I want answers NOW.

[quote] I want answers NOW.

She's an oriental.

He's a closet case.

So he probably did her in, so he could do meth with his boyfriend.

End of story.

Thank you, that is all I need to hear.

[italic]LOCK ‘EM UP!

We've had severe drought, high heat, and smoke for over two years in Northern California. Water in rivers and lakes is stagnant, favors the growth of deadly cyanobacteria, which then becomes more concentrated and potentially more deadly. These bacteria secrete toxins that can cause immediate multi-organ failure and can even be absorbed through skin.

Am from San Francisco and grew up hiking and camping all over N. CA. and ended up studying biology and chemistry in college. Until a decade or more ago, I'd never heard of cyanobacteria being a problem inland when I read an article about a family whose dog went swimming in a lake. soon after, it had seizures and died. The article's author was trying to raise awareness about where to not let your dog go swimming. I gave up backpacking and camping because there seemed to be more and more poison oak, mosquitoes, stinging "yellow-jackets." less water everywhere, and more rednecks with guns. I was taught to never drink stagnant water but never knew why, except that it just looked gross. Parasites like Giardia were of concern then.

When backpacking -- carrying water for a few days is too heavy. We would carry these little water purifier pump gizmos that could filter out bacteria and parasites, and had some type of metal or something that could kill viruses. Or -- we'd put iodine tables to treat the water that we got from little streams or lakes. Tasted disgusting! Another method was to boil the water with our little backpacking stoves, but that was only good for morning instant coffee.

It occurs to me now that most toxins -- such as those secreted by bacteria -- are small molecules (like cyanide) that are not filtered out or killed by any of these methods. Sorry, am thinking aloud. Unlikely that this family and their dog drank anything other than the water they brought for just a day hike. They all apparently died suddenly. Contaminated water signs were posted in the area. Maybe they were unaware. On a hot, windless day, I wonder if the bacteria secrete toxic gases that could have bubbled up and formed a cloud near the trail? This was probably more like Auschwitz than Jonestown.

Used to volunteer at The Marine Mammal Center in Sausalito, where we'd intake scores of "stranded" (the lost their ability to navigate) sea lions with neurotoxin damage due to blue-green algae = cyanobacteria blooms caused by increased ocean water temperature. Every year we'd see more strandings.

There have been some stupid comments about interracial marriages, finances, and hiking with babies. But this is Datalounge, so no surprise. In the Bay Area, Asian-Caucasian marriages are very common (Look no further than Mark Zuckerburg and Priscilla Chan), as is taking infants everywhere, including on long hikes. I work with these people! Also, working for Google or Snapchat, etc. means big bucks. Since COVID, young people are buying up real estate in beautiful areas outside of the Bay Area.

They look like such a wonderful family.

The exponential consequences of overpopulation and climate change are happening far sooner than I ever expected than when I started studying biology in the late 1970s.

Tragically, I think this family died, indirectly due to climate change. Autopsy and toxicology data will show that. There's no other probable explanation.

R237, sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't. In healthy young people who haven't Crossfitted themselves into rhabdomyolysis, myoglobin in the renal tubules is a good sign. Disseminated intravascular coagulation in people with no history of hepatic disease is another, as are cerebral and pulmonary edema.

Just saw this in the SF Chronicle.

New and severe weather patterns are becoming obvious to everyone.

Climate/ecological change as the murderous perp is starting to pop up in subtle ways, in unexpected little corners of the world, and I think this might be one of those cases. In a perfect world, this case should be a shot heard around the world, but incidents like these are probably happening quietly everywhere. But when 8 billion people on the planet can't even agree on what next season's designer shoe collection should look like, how can we get out of the environmental catastrophe we've (WE = developed nations = mostly White People) created?

Loosing sleep.

THE CLOSET KILLS AGAIIN

I've been surprised by some of the comments too, r242. I thought we had more California Dataloungers than we apparently do.

"Loosing sleep."

Oh, dear!

climate change is to blame?

lolz

I just don't think it was likely to be heatstroke. These were people who had gone on hikes before, they would have known to drink the water they had with them and find shade. They did neither. They also died mostly in the same place with one of them going ahead, probably to get help.

The dog dying with them is the oddest part, because animals crawl off if they're able to, and he had no injuries. If it was some kind of toxic water the dog would have died sooner than the adults, that's in one of the more recent articles where a scientist was talking about the possibility of algae.

I suppose the dog could have died from some kind of toxicity, the family could have grabbed the dog and realized something was wrong, but not made it off the trail and to an area with cell phone reception in time.

[quote]Wouldn't heat stroke show up in the autopsy? They make it sound like the autopsy didn't indicate cause of death and now they are looking at toxicology reports.

It would. If it was heatstroke, we'd know about it now.

[quote]there were no other animals found deceased in the immediate area.

They never should have allowed suggestions of poisonous gasses, then. If no other animals were found dead, then it wasn't some kind of escaped gas. Sheesh.

I love that the DL sleuths have already decided that they died from toxic algae...Did they check the cabins ?

[quote] if it was really in the 100s, could they have had enough water for everyone?

I think one report said that there was water left in their camel bladder/bottle.

Some questions I have: Do we know the timeline? It may have been in the 100s, but they may have hiked when it was still morning and cooler. When did they arrive to the site? How far far did they move away from the car? What's the time of death? If it was a natural cause, like poisoned algae, CO gas, or something like that - were there other wild animals nearby, like birds, insects or small mammals that also perished? Is that an area that is not frequented much? They were discovered on a Monday after they have been searched for, right? Must have literally off the beaten path if no other hikers had found them before.

I'm holding my nose and quoting Fox News because they're the ones who got the Sheriff's Department spokesperson on record regarding this homicide investigation which keeps getting thrown around as breaking news.

[quote]"Initially, yes, when we come across a family with no apparent cause of death, there's no smoking gun, there's no suicide note, there's nothing like that, we have to consider all options," Mariposa County Sheriff's spokeswoman Kristie Mitchell told Fox News on Saturday. "Now that we're five days in, no, we're no longer considering homicide as a cause of death."

Thank you, r254. I think it's mostly British press who have been using the quote about the "coroner's investigation being treated as a homicide" and I wonder if it was a mistake or a misunderstanding of what was said. I'm glad someone asked the investigators specifically about it, since it's been muddying the waters somewhat.

The baby’s name was ‘Miju’.

Not ‘Muji’.

Middle name

[quote]And on 8/4/20 at 2:48 am, our little bean was born. Welcome our baby girl, Aurelia Miju Chung-Gerrish ❤️😍 we are tired, sleepless, but mostly glowing with love for this one! #lilmiju

[quote] coroner's investigation being treated as a homicide

We may need to open another thread for the question on who killed the investigation.

Fields of wildflowers? Deadly pollen allergy?

Shrooms?

They found out about the new policy change at OnlyFans. They were doomed with their straight married content.

I know Fox News is widely hated. When some English friends visited a while ago(pre Trump). They wanted to watch some news. Like most UK people I knew when living in London, they had BBC on most of the time when at home. They tried many stations here, but found Fox best, totally shocked the shit out of me. They said CNN not much news mostly opinion(editorial), regular non cable news just silly.

R262 in this thread, we don't care about your story

Well, if they're back to saying that homicide is out, then this story just became way less interesting.

Also - thank you R247 for noting R244's "loosing sleep" grave error.

Hisssss..aww..poor you so much bile...so little style

[quote] Damn how hard is it to get your kid raised and keep it alive.

Evidently as difficult as using proper punctuation.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

cops in CA are so fucking stupid!

Looks like he'd have a big dick.

R267 comes through with the “breaking news” we knew about 3 hours ago.

They must not have found algae on the bodies, which you would expect if they had gone into a pool that had toxic algae.

If they'd died of heatstroke, they would have found signs of that in the autopsy.

No dead animals nearby, meaning it probably wasn't some kind of toxic gas or pesticide spray from a plane or anything.

No visible signs of injury.

I'd say they ate or drank something that ended up being poisonous but you'd expect there to be signs of things like seizure or vomiting, and would the dog have also eaten it? Surely they didn't drink water they came across, since they had their own with them.

This is weird. I'm thinking the cops must have missed something.

“Heat Stroke” sounds like a porn title.

R267 Yes, dear, we've discussed this

Dogs suffer from heatstroke a lot faster than people: they're covered in hair and their dog had long fur. Let's say the dog first showed signs of distress, the people took her to a pond to plunge her in it to cool her off and unintentionally contaminated not only the dog but themselves.

Was the dog into poppers and fisting?

Autopsies may not always show signs of heatstroke as COD.

R276- A better link.

R275 show some respect for the dog, you asshole

That’s why I was wincing as I typed. I love dogs. And I’m sorry the dog died. But I also love a good Chris Burrous joke.

Life is full of these hard choices.

They were into scenes like Burning Man, maybe not the most cautious types, even with the baby in tow? Triple digit heat and such rugged remote terrain that even sat phones did not work where bodies were found?

I think they all killed themselves, including the dog. All go to heaven/hell together.

Who goes out hiking in such hot weather with little kids

One article said a trained LE rescue guy was impacted by the high heat. Parents were into rave scene and Burning Man, did they take something that made them less able to respond to danger of high heat? Or maybe just more risk taking since that runner guy from SF had not taken anything. But, lots of people trip on mushrooms in national parks. The heat could have finished all 4 of them off, the baby and dog being most succeptible.

"The CHP helicopter hovering over the area lowered something into this location around 1:15 p.m. Wednesday, then flew away.

Briese said one rescuer was treated for a health issue related to the heat but was OK. Briese said around 3:15 p.m. Wednesday that he expected the family’s bodies to be extracted from Devil’s Gulch within that hour, then flown to the coroner’s office."

R283 the guy worked for Google. He likely fits the mold of typical Google employee who thinks he’s a genius. Believe me, I grew up and live in the Bay Area, it’s a stereotype that rings true. These people often are book smart but lack common sense.

R283 Yes, they are (were) idiots for even starting out on their doomed journey at over 100 degree temperatures.

R242 you can always tell a DL who’s way past it, live in dumbfuck nowhere, or hasn’t traveled outside of his hometown, when he spews shit about Asian/ white couples like they’re unusual. In California, even shitty towns like Fresno you’ll commonly see Asian/ white couples and biracial people.

Heatstroke is unlikely because the bodies are found so close together. They’d be in various stages of heatstroke instead of grouped together in close vicinity.

I believe “heatstroke” is traditionally broken into two words.

#SilentNoMore

.....

R262, maybe they were watching Shepard Smith, who was the only news reporting on the network. And pre-Trump, as bad as they were, it was nothing compared to after Trump.

I bet if you watched broadcasts from 2015 or so, compared to now, you wouldn’t believe it was the same station. I used to watch them sometimes pre-9/11. They were conservative but not pro-fascist. That came later.

.....

I'm telling you, they offed themselves!

C'mon, you die from that heat?! where are we? The fucking Sahara desert??

They had done desert trips in the past, if the parents had had heat stroke previously, they would be more susceptible. A baby and dog are already quite susceptible.

The mother was found apart from the other 3 and further up the hill. She may have been trying to head back to the truck for help.

Heat stroke leaves few markers but can kill quickly. R294, read the tread on the trail runner who died of heat stroke recently in CA.

R294 You can hike in extreme heat but you have to be aware of the dangers and prepare well...

R290 & R292, why are you posting images from 2018?

It's 2021, their baby was born in August 2020.

They were on the most difficult and rugged trail in the area. The canyon was likely hotter than the reported temps in the area, which were still over 100. They were found with a small amount of water.

Thrill seeking ravers. Poor baby and dog dragged along for the "adventure."

R291 stop derailing this thread.

So what kind of performance did Daddy do at a club in Mongolia? Parents were obv thrill seeking types. No concern for how sensitive babies and dogs are to heat, or how hot it would be for the baby to be in a carrier against a hot adult body in a rugged canyon where LE had to HIKE OUT to get sat phone signal.

Parents into the rave scene and Burning Man were obv not cautious types. As were a host of poor decisions on a CA trail that killed them, an innocent baby and a poor dog they dragged along.

Like the runner who died who took his toddler in a stroller on steep runs downhill with poor footing. He managed on only kill himself with the heat, kid was put at risk. Same with this couple but they took out the kid and dog too. These trails are avoided by locals in the heat of summer, esp the midday sun, for reasons.

The parents defo liked to push it, here are reviews of the trail. This was peak summer heat at midday.

Dog got heatstroke first. I had a dog who got heatstroke in weather that wasn't that hot. They carried the dog to a water source to cool her down. They all became contaminated by the toxic algae.

Case solved.

Agree that heat stroke seems a likely cause of death for all, R304. They had some but not much water left per a news report and back to the car was all exposed and uphill. Maybe the algae was a complicating factor. Heat kills. So many reports of this with hikers and runners this summer yet people all seem to think it will be great to take a baby and dog, won't happen to me. If it was some murder/suicide scenario I think it is more likely they all would have been together. The mom was farther away, up the hill.

Even fit people can easily be killed by high heat. Babies and dogs are very susceptible to heat. They were somewhat new to the area. Why take a baby on such a rugged and remote trail that even a sat phone gets no signal?

wait, so they died in the heat after how many hours?

I don't believe heat stroke.

murder hornets

[quote] The parents defo liked to push it,

Between your ‘defos’ and ‘obvs’ you sound illiterate.

Steep 3 mile exposed trail back up to their truck. They had little water left and were likely overcome by heat. If they went in the river to cool off they could have been impacted by algae.

Go eat some mushrooms on a hot trail in a baking canyon, R309. Just don't strap a small human to you or drag along a loyal fur covered pet while you do it. You sound like a Burning Man devotee yourself. If so, enjoy. But killing others with poorly considered actions is not cool. There have been a LOT of heat related deaths of hikers and trail runners this summer, including in California and it has been covered in the media. These 2 upped the death toll by bringing a baby and dog.

These parents were not wise decision makers and the dog and baby paid with their lives. They were people who were thrill seekers and had gone on "extreme adventures" just like the dead trail runner. At least his kids are alive.

To the person repeatedly suggesting the couple’s judgement was impaired by some psychoactive drugs: we heard you the first time.

[quote]They were into scenes like Burning Man

[quote]Parents were into rave scene and Burning Man, did they take something that made them less able to respond to danger of high heat?

[quote]So what kind of performance did Daddy do at a club in Mongolia? Parents were obv thrill seeking types.

[quote]Parents into the rave scene and Burning Man were obv not cautious types.

R281, R284, R300, R301, R310: You posted pictures from [bold]2018[/bold] at R290 and R292, referenced Burning Man four times and alluded to drug use. 2021 is not 2018. Do you know anyone with children? And how drastically lifestyles change when you have an infant?

Also, R309’s assessment isn’t wrong.

"After the gate, the Forest Service Road is a steep drop, which eventually leads to the Savage Lundy Trailhead where the family would have hiked. Residents said there was an old barium mine and many gold mines in the area.

“This is no recreation area,” said a neighbor, who lives next door to the family’s Darrah property that they also rent out on Airbnb. “It’s a serious hiking area. ... It’s nothing but rattlesnakes and old mines.”

VICTOR47 2 days ago

I would be curious regarding topography. Were they in a bowl? Rather then toxic gases, is it possible that there was a momentary release of CO2? This has occurred in other places and caused mass suffocations. Just a thought. CO2 is heavy and will displace the available O2 long enough to suffoca...See more

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btown 2 days ago

Replying to VICTOR47 Good connection there. There's a spot near Mammoth Lakes where people have died in exactly those circumstances and there are now warning signs. If a toxin killed them, it would probably be detectable. But CO2 asphyxiation would probably not show any signs. ---> "The Devil Gulch area, where the family was found, is a depression at the bottom of Hites Cove Road"

One story reported it may have been 107-109 on the trail.

Poor baby and doggie. Stupid parents.

This very bizarre and scary. Imagine going for a walk or hike around water...and there's an algae bloom or something that gives off toxic and fatal fumes...if that's what has happened. How would you prepare or know about that, before taking that hike? Sure, there could be a warning on the news, if you happen to watch it...or maybe it's not yet know, until someone gets ill or dies. Crazy...

Why does anyone care about this stupid family?

It’s very difficult to kill somebody with a gas in an open space with convection.

they were too stupid to live.

they were unfit parents.

what happened to, we are investigating this as a homicide. did they change their minds again?

Who the fuck brings a fucking baby to a hike in over 100 degree weather?!

They deserved to die. Ain't shedding any tears for them

But, but, were they vaccinated???!!!!

I always thought an algae bloom would be fatal to aquatic life.. or if someone was swimming in the water..or drank the water.

I feel sorry for the husband's boyfriend/lover.

He must be devastated.

[quote] what happened to, we are investigating this as a homicide. did they change their minds again?

[quote] But, but, were they vaccinated???!!!!

Some of you really need to read the thread.

Brilliant, r321! Absolutely brilliant!

You, my friend, have a future in comedy. Nobody thought to post that yet. Nuh uh.

You GO, boy!

I hope someone else comes into the thread and asks why they took a baby on a hike. Jeez do they read the previous posts. Rolls eyes.

Creepy area with a dark history.

Hiking miles back UP at the end, in extreme heat, was a poor choice of route.

So many of these cases this year.

The wife was probably a Chinese spy who was thinking of defecting.

“About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail. The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese said they believe the family was returning to their truck.”

Heat stroke is a fuckin’ [italic]liar!

^^ re:

[quote]r307 I don't believe heat stroke.

It sounds like the wife had overcome a lot, she had a traumatic brain injury from an accident, that is what spurred her interest in yoga and healing. Very sad. People should not go hiking and running in extreme temps.

The trail they were on is steep at the end, for miles. Really hard to climb out of a canyon with heat exhaustion never mind heat stroke. The dog is a pretty hairy breed, they do not handle extreme heat well.

This is DL and in this entire long thread, there's no lust for the hunky husband? Tall, strapping, handsome, long hair, beard, British accent - I would have taken him in a second!

Meh, he’s uncut, so….

Oooh, even better, hadn't thought of that. I'd be willing to meat stroke with him anytime!

I had assumed it was an early morning hike, and supposedly a photo of the baby backpack was posted on social media before 7 am. But now LE says they left in the afternoon? With those high temps? Even stranger.

[quote] I had assumed it was an early morning hike, and supposedly a photo of the baby backpack was posted on social media before 7 am. But now LE says they left in the afternoon? With those high temps? Even stranger.

Two dumb fucks go hiking when they're not supposed to.

Then they end up dead.

News at 11.

R111, Kreycik also had an Asian wife.

Sadly, R338, they took out a baby and dog too and they had no say in these ill considered plans.

strange incident, don't think its strange their baby was taken for the hike. The baby was strapped in for the ride. But the dog ended up dead too. Terribly strange.

A hike is one thing. Hiking down into a canyon so rugged that LE had to hike out away from where they were found to get satellite phone service and where temps have been reported as 107-109 or higher that day in the area is not something a baby is designed to survive, esp trapped in a carrier against another warm body. Babies and furry dogs to not handle extreme heat well. The hike out was quite steep, there were a lot of poor choices that ended up with 4 dead.

... amateurs.

[quote] Replying to VICTOR47 Good connection there. There's a spot near Mammoth Lakes where people have died in exactly those circumstances and there are now warning signs. If a toxin killed them, it would probably be detectable. But CO2 asphyxiation would probably not show any signs

Actually signs would probably show. CO2 poisoning usually turns the skin a bluish color. They can look at the blood cells under a microscope and tell a person has died of CO2 poisoning

For all those refusing to think it's heat stroke, exactly what do you think it is?

If they had died of heat stroke, then there would be histological evidence of this:

hepatocellular necrosis, disseminated intravascular coagulation, and intrathoracic petechiae

Yet nothing found on autopsy...

Who has EVER heard of a group dying of heatstroke?

Let's get back to the hunky husband - uncut, you say?

I am always astonished at how this family was doing SO WELL financially, a house manager in addition to the nanny, multiple homes in one of the most expensive areas of the country, yet SO lacking in common sense. One camelback was not enough for 4 in that heat. All the pine trees burned down a few years ago, there is little shade, it is baking hot and there was a very steep LONG climb out at the end and not even satellite phone coverage. No one came upon them because everyone else had the sense to avoid that trail in the extreme heat. For days.

They failed to secure their stillsuits properly.

The husband was a Snapchat Software Engineer. The typical Snap Software Engineer salary is around $100,000 per year. The couple might be book smart and good at money management but they seemed to lack street smarts. They were also thrill seekers.

Heatstroke wouldn't have killed them all at the same time, one of the adults would have started showing symptoms first, and the other would have tried to help the symptomatic one. Now of course if both adults became incapacitated at the same time the baby wouldn't have lasted long, but the dog? Dogs may be loyal, but not loyal enough to stay out in killer sun until they die, they're smart enough to go looking for shade and water. And of course, unless a deliberate poison was very precisely dosed, one of them would have started having symptoms before the other.

I like the naturally-occurring gas theory, because really, that's about the only thing I can think of that would kill four mammals of varying size and species at the same time.

Volcanic gasses are unlikely, that part of the Sierras are not geologically active. There is some geological activity on the eastern side of the Sierra range, where a series of fault blocks and the Mammoth Caldera makes for some hot springs, some old craters and lava flows that aren't currently active, and some scary predictions about future megaeruptions. But all the geologically active areas are about 100 miles away, gas doesn't travel 100 miles away underground, through a mountain range.

When will autopsy results be available?

Do you seriously believe that a 45-year-old man with 15.5 years of experience at Google was making 100k per year in SF? His bonus alone would have been more than that.

Where do you people live?

R351, that was a recent job for him, he had been an engineer at Google and may have sold stock and put the money in real estate. The wife had previously worked in the pharma industry.

16,237 left to go.

R352 has one of the wisest posts in this thread. You “heat stroke” people are beyond tedious at this point.

Also: Savage Lundy. Devil Gulch. Hites Cove. It’s clear this was witchcraft.

They did not have to die at the same time just between Sunday and Tuesday 11 am. The baby was immobile and the dog may have been leashed. The climb up was steep, there was no cell signal and the heat would have intensified as the day went on, so they were likely to become less and less able to climb out of the canyon as time went on. The adults could even have died on different days, we don't know.

I cannot believe that Lake Nyos Disaster story. I’ve never ever heard of that phenomena — the story is absolutely horrific.

This couple’s story is such a tragedy. If it was heatstroke, I just cannot believe they put themselves at such risk with a fucking INFANT.

They hiked many times with no problems and obviously prepared. So what if their phone doesn’t work where they were? When I hike, my phone goes in and out of service. I get tired of hearing people make it sound like they were newbies in the Amazon.

Here is the hike:

That is not the trail they were found on.

Ok, fine. It’s still in the vicinity. I think it’s a beautiful area.

Camelbak hydration packs:

I was wondering why this thread had 100 new replies and I see it's the "they were druggie rave-addicted losers who kill babies" posts.

Sounds like the sociopaths from the murder/suicide snow thread descended on this thread to make up more theories that sound like discarded Lifetime Original Series plots.

[quote]Heatstroke wouldn't have killed them all at the same time, one of the adults would have started showing symptoms first

The dog or the baby would have shown symptoms first, I'm sure. The adults would have sought shade and there are trees in that area, but they weren't near any, they were on the trail itself. I doubt any water would have been left.

It's possible the dog and/or baby were overcome and they panicked and tried to get out of there fast, and were overcome themselves on the way out of the trail. It still seems unlikely the husband and the baby and dog would have been found ON the trail through, instead of off the trail in a shadier area.

Yes, they did visit my lemonade stand. Why do you ask?

It happens. Used to be only mad dogs and Englishmen went out in the midday sun, oh wait...

My god, why do people want to hike so badly in the DESERT?

R368 That reminds me of the Death Valley Germans.

The elevation change of the trail they were on was 1400 feet. Imagine climbing that height at the END in baking heat while carrying a baby and perhaps the dog if it had become ill. It is always better to route hikes to climb at the beginning when fresh, gravity helps with the downhill at the end. That they had a small amount of water left suggests that they had been conserving it.

I do wonder if social media and All Trails accounts, etc are encouraging people to do risky things or not fully consider? Or maybe there needs to be more of a public education campaign about heat, microclimates, etc.

I'm sure the trail runner loved his kids but he was known to run down extremely steep trails with poor footing with a toddler in a stroller. These people are not just nature lovers, they all like the risk taking. These parents were big on the rave scene, sometimes DJd and went to Burning Man. Was ignoring the forecast a way to get a bit of a thrill on? The fact that no one came across them Sunday, Monday or Tuesday morning suggests locals avoided that trail in high temps. The area was known for wildflowers in the springtime, not baking triple digit August.

Very sad that they died so close to the car and even their new home. Seems pretty common scenario though. Things go wrong, having safety redundancies built in can save your life. That they were deep enough that LE satellite phones did not work until they hiked out makes it clear this was not a nice Sunday stroll with a dog and baby, but very rugged, baking terrain. The baby had just turned one, maybe they thought it meant it was ok to get more hardcore with the adventuring?

This gives an idea of the terrain but all the trees burned down a few years ago in a fire. All exposed to the sun now. Looks like a grim place to die.

r366 = frau

or may as well be.

Will this case be the new Lesbian Mutilation Of Piedmont Park? Doomed to never be solved, case gone cold after only a week?

......

[quote]It is always better to route hikes to climb at the beginning when fresh, gravity helps with the downhill at the end. That they had a small amount of water left suggests that they had been conserving it.

R370 Sounds like they started at the wrong trailhead. Even if the cause of death were some other mysterious thing, it's risky to pick a strenuous hike (1400' elevation gain) under such harsh conditions (100+ degree heat and no shade).

It was poisonous fumes from an aggressive form of deep forest moss that done them in.

Again, they would know by now from the autopsy if it were heat stroke that killed all of them.

The husband fed them poison granola bars.

There seems to be a brewing sickness among 30-45 year old millenial couples of the white husband/Asian wife variety that I’ve come across in my own life here in CA. It seems like many such couples are nature junkies/thrill seekers and are hell bent on proving their physical prowess. They want everyone to think they’re the “cool” ones, going to crazy locales, doing crazy shit…is it an inferiority complex based on spouse or career choice? Overcompensating for being nerds? Instagram addiction? Something else? I have a cousin married to an Asian woman. Same type of couple…doing all sorts of desert-y and mountain-y shit. Having a baby didn’t slow them down, it only emboldened them and I find a lot of stuff they do to be reckless. Just boggles my mind that people go so far off the beaten path with a baby. None of this would have happened if they just glamped it in Yosemite. Or better yet, just done touristy stuff in Paris.

And one more thing, you’re taking a one year old on a strenuous hike. One year olds are notoriously wiggly and cranky. They wear diapers and take a lot of shits. They’re constantly hungry. You’re gonna go hours into a rattlesnake ridden area with her?

Exercise will kill you.

[bold]#Proof

[quote]Overcompensating for being nerds?

Yes, that’s exactly what it is. A former roommate of mine —total computer dork, very few friends—moved to the Bay Area, got a cushy tech job, and now just recently started doing party drugs and going to Burning Man and dressing up in faggy costumes with his girlfriend and their group of very nerdy friends… who also all work in tech. Oh, and he’s THIRTY-NINE. No kids, though, yet…

Faggy?

I'm betting that they killed themselves. Either the mom or dad drugged the whole family including the dog

Happened in Mammoth not that long ago…,deadly gasses…

Asians are all into herbal remedies and supplements. The wife probably made something she figured would give them energy and if killed them instead.

[quote] Was ignoring the forecast a way to get a bit of a thrill on?

Just stop.

Yes, R386, or maybe she moonlights at the local opium den and smuggled some out under her foot-binding bandages.

[quote] Faggy?

Yes?

R379 I second the overcompensating nerd theory.

I know this is DL and misogyny is a favorite pastime around here, so I hate to be on-brand…

However, I’m almost positive it will come out the wife poisoned the family and dog. The husband was probably cheating or she had postpartum depression.

[quote] got a cushy tech job, and now just recently started doing party drugs and going to Burning Man and dressing up in faggy costumes with his girlfriend and their group of very nerdy friends…

🎵 Let’s do the Time Warp aga-a-a-a-ain…

After reading all the horrors of hotweather hiking I must ask - Why? It sounds totally unpleasant in addition to being dangerous.

It is highly unlikely to be murder by poison because there was no sign of seizure or vomiting or struggle. The autopsy would have shown something like burns to the esophagus, trauma to the lining of the stomach, something.

The same goes for herbal remedies or even drug overdose. Entire families don't sit down and die calmly after ingesting something that could kill them.

[quote]These parents were big on the rave scene, sometimes DJd and went to Burning Man.

Stop. You've said this 15 times already, all based on one old IG post. Cut it out.

OMG

R154: yes, the ‘無/无/Wu/Mu’ kanji character - meaning ‘no/without’ - can be tricky to use as a name.

That’s why it’s often paired with another character that’s usually negative, and double negations turn them positive, e.g. the late FRENCH Chinese painter, 趙無極 [Zao Wou-ki] is one such example, with ‘極’ [ki/ji] as ‘limits’, so ‘Wou-ki’ [Wuji/無極] becomes ‘Without Limits’

Her middle name was Miju, not Muji.

All that talk about how this couple were stupid idiot hipster dolts for choosing the middle name Muji, and it was actually the relatively common name Miju this whole time.

I see some articles have corrected it but you can still find several with the incorrect name.

The baby’s name was MIJU.

Which I think is adorable.

Why? Does it have a meaning?

The dog's name will be next.

What kind of people would name a dog after a bear? Something is very, very off about that. It makes my blood run cold. Could it be that the dog was brought into the woods to be sacrificed to a bear in some sinister Burner ritual? Janet from my Bunco group caught her very own granddaughter watching Midsommar, and let me tell you — drugs and bears and rituals and summer... I can't. I'm giving myself goosebumps.

If there was any poisoning was more likely the guy who did it. Probably just baked to death after becoming dehydrated. Had little water because had been rationing it, overcame by heat exhaustion, sat down to rest, mom tried to continue on to get help. All died between Sunday and Tues 11, likely at different points.

SO many of these stories this summer but despite media coverage, they continue to happen. Dragging along a baby and dog is even worse. Why do they all think it won't happen to them? These are very unforgiving environments and temperatures.

There are ways to enjoy nature that do not involve baking to death in canyons or on desolate ridges. The heat in the west is increasingly extreme and in CA fires have taken out much of what would have been tree cover. The ground and granite absorb the heat and radiate it back. Not a fun way to die, esp since the baby likely experienced distress first, and the very hairy dog (in a similar situation a dachshund survived, a golden retriever type dog had no chance to discharge so much heat.

One of the articles had photos of their new house nestled in the woods with a deer walking past, lots of ways to enjoy nature that were not extreme sports disguised as wholesome family outings. These people were a lot like the dead trail runner with his "jaw dropping adventures" who also died quite prematurely.

They did a desert tour (guided) and had gone to Burning Man several times, maybe that gave them a false sense of security in that environment. The guy may have hiked in this area before per his AllTrails, but did the easier trail, in the spring, not the rugged one on an August afternoon.

Hiking in extreme environments in extreme temps does not seem like something a baby wrapped in a carrier and held against a body radiating heat or a very furry dog are likely to enjoy. What is the motive to go anyway? Thrill seeking? Discounting the risks? No one found them because no one else went on that trail for days. Locals who review it speak of using it in spring and fall. Is AllTrails somehow encouraging this risk taking behavior? Why not bring more water? Imagine hiking up that elevation, 1400 feet, after hiking for hours in the heat, carrying a baby and possibly carrying a pet ill from the heat, the wife was a fairly small person. That is quite steep. Anything goes wrong and you are not making it up and out. Even satellite phones of LE did not work, that is some deep canyon rugged terrain. A hike that is downhill at the end has the benefit of gravity. Who could have imagined heat exhaustion and then heat stroke happening in 107 degree weather with no shade. They clearly were not educated on how babies and furry dogs are likely to experience heat distress most quickly. Just insta props to drag along without thinking about their survival needs? What is the motivation? Any psych folks on here? The jogger also took risks with his kid, running down very steep trails with poor footing with a toddler in a stroller. Why are these guys compelled to risk kids this way? Why did this mom go along with it? Was she esp malleable because she had had a TBI? Why not enjoy nature from their lovely new house in the woods, maybe setting up a pool for the baby and dog to splash in? Why this and starting in the AFTERNOON? The trail runner also started quite late in the day. It may matter that the trail runner grew up on the east coast and ran a lot in New England and this dead guy was a Brit. Did their formative years of much cooler nature somehow impact their weighing up of risks? Locals were not using that trail for days, how did they assess the risks differently?

The article said he was found in a seated position. That’s odd to me. Was he sitting hunched over the baby?

This is one for the Twilight Zone...

Smokin 'da Gang' or Srooms made it seem like a cool idea. Hike in the blistering heat w. baby & dog. Post lots of cool photos, post on Tik Tok for all to see & say..Wow they are way Kool..Nah they are way dead

Why in the world are people thinking they did shrooms on a strenuous hike and with a baby?

R405, when suffering from heat exhaustion and heat stroke there is a strong urge to sit down to "rest." Like with the dead trail runner he likely sat down and could not get up again. They were also on a very steep trail climbing up 1400 feet in elevation. That might make anyone want to rest.

The baby was said by LE to be next to him, he was not wearing the backpack. They typically have little feet that flip down, they have not clarified if the baby was in the backpack (imagine being wrapped in nylon while in a dry sauna) or if she had been taken out to cool off and the dog was next to them. The wife was a bit farther up the trail toward the truck as if she had gone for help. He was a big guy, and was carrying the baby, and perhaps the dog if it had become ill. The wife may have had a slightly slower timeline for baking to death, lower body weights tend to cool slightly faster. Had the trail been downhill or flat they may have made it but that climb was too much for the adults in those temps.

I think the heat and lack of sufficient water are more likely to have killed them than something that was PUT in the water. Sucks all around though, kid may not even have lived long enough to learn to walk. And the dog had to be suffering in that thick fur.

People often do, R408, not to say they did. But people are trying to figure out unsafe thinking.

The guy looked shroomy, R408. He probably fancied himself as a Bear Grylls type, "look, love, these fungi are like a sponge. If we each eat one, we'll be hydrated for the next 36 hours!"

I hope the dog and baby went quickly.

r324 thank you for responding to my question, "what happened to, we are investigating this as a homicide. did they change their minds again?"

I have been reading this thread on and off but sometimes have to skip over parts or will miss something so thanks for being so kind as to take the time to berate me but not bother to answer my question.

Europeans don't understand that nature is not your friend. I blame the Asian woman who should have known better.

The baby would have shown physical signs of heat stroke, such as petechiae. Also nausea/vomiting occurs with heat stroke.

Regardless of what actually caused their death, I think we can agree that it was not only foolish but grossly negligent for them to take their family hiking on that trail, at that time, and under those conditions.

We're sure they didn't leave early in the morning with plans to be back before it got hot?

I think what a recent poster said might be true (that this guy was used to cooler climates). Was the woman from California? Here in NJ I go on walks with my skinny teens, but I usually have a cold beverage with me. We are not hard core at all, and probably wouldn't walk on a day hotter than 85 degrees, and usually with leafy shade all around us. Now I'm going to be scared. But yeah, 107 degrees sounds hot as crap. I'm on team heat stroke.

It's very sad all around, especially when a baby and dog were involved...who had no say in the situation.

[quote] The wife was a bit farther up the trail

Oh, dear.

[quote] I have been reading this thread on and off but sometimes have to skip over parts

You think that’s an excuse to post a question that’s already been answered twice?

Oh, you must be new here. I don’t think you’re gonna like it.

R196 = feets troll

[quote] These people were a lot like the dead trail runner with his "jaw dropping adventures" who also died quite prematurely.

Who made you an authority on these people?

[quote]something a baby wrapped in a carrier and held against a body radiating heat or a very furry dog

You could have just stated a baby and a dog—we all know the story. But no, like you’re whole screed, it’s full of histrionics and hyperbole. Are you getting off on this? You sound like a Chris from the trail running thread.

[quote] Why did this mom go along with it? Was she esp malleable because she had had a TBI.

🙄

I can't believe it takes "two to three weeks" for the toxicology reports. Is that typical?

[quote] The wife was a bit farther up the trail

[quote]Oh, dear.

What are you Oh, dear-ing here? There’s nothing wrong with the sentence you quoted.

Dogs will suffer from heatstroke much faster than people as they are covered in fur. Dog collapses with heat stroke. Panicky owners pick the dog up and carry him to the closest body of water to immerse him and cool him down. Which is what you're supposed to do. Unfortunately, the water was contaminated with that algae shit and they all become contaminated and die.

End of story. Case solved.

R427 You forgot to add that the dog was probably tripping on shrooms because of its derelict, Burning Man going owners,

R426, really?

“The wife was a bit FURTHER up the trail.”

R382 = Matt Damon

But he’s not wrong about overcompensating nerds - I’ve known a few. I’m a nerd as well but feel no need to compensate due to fat whoredom and elder status.

He had an affinity for shrimp moo goo gai pan, but he couldn't live forever.

R429, ‘further’ is used for non-physical “distances” that can’t be measured using centimeters, inches, meters, miles, etc. For example, “I wanted to eat his asshole, but when he pulled down his Hanes briefs I caught a whiff of poop and decided not to go any further.” Or, “I don’t care to pursue this conversation any further now that you’ve mentioned poop, you scat troll.”

‘Farther’ is used to describe actual physical distances than can be measured in mm, cm, inches, miles, lightyears, etc. The wife was farther up the trail—indicating a physical distance that can actually be measured, from the rest of her family to where she was found.

I don’t know why you think ‘farther’ is not appropriate here. I think some people just think ‘farther’ isn’t a word, or something? Or that ‘further’ sounds more sophisticated? The same people tend to use ‘myself’ improperly.

These computer nerdss are already often the skinny types. An Asian wife is unlikely to be otherwise. So they pride themselves on excessive exercise, not parental knowledge or responsibility (including pets).

It was 106--107 GD MF degrees! Going outside, never mind for a GD MF HIKE WITH A BABY AND A DOG, shows a literally devastating lack of intelligence and common sense.

I hope they are being slapped to a faretheewell in some Afterlife.

[quote] [R382] = Matt Damon

No, because unlike Matt Damon, I am actually a gay guy, and please don’t pretend that there’s any meaningful difference between ‘faggy’ and ‘queeny’, the latter of which gets used here multiple times a day to describe faggy/queeny things and men. If the word ‘queer’ can be forced on us by straight people, then a gay guy can use the word ‘faggy’ among other gay guys. Puh-lease.

[quote] These computer nerdss are already often the skinny types.

This is true. My roommate, who wears the faggy costumes when he goes frolicking with his girlfriend and their nerd friends in the hills of San Francisco, took up running as a serious pursuit a few years and is now skinny as hell. He never used to be. It’s part of the whole conceit.

He gives me a vibe that he was on the spectrum. She didn't care- she just wanted white children.

R419/r429, r432 is correct. Drop your stupid smirk and look up the definitions.

Absolutely not correct.

Had the poster said “the wife was found [some measure of distance, feet, inches, yards] farther away,” that would be correct. A generic, unknown distance is ‘further’ away.

Unless he knows how far the wife was from the initial point.

R438, that is retarded. It is referring to a physical distance; it CAN be measured. That is all that you need to know here. ‘Farther’ is correct. You’re just making shit up at this point. Take the loss and move on.

R425. Yes, the toxicologist must prepare samples of tissue and fluids and carry out time-consuming tests using mass spectrometry.

The toxic algae is visible, correct? You can see it clearly in the warning photos. If they had gone into a pool with toxic algae, it was on their bodies or clothes, and it would have been found by now. Water evaporates but algae doesn't.

R434 My apologies, it was in jest.

Their stupidity killed them!

R434, if you're going to use "faggy" on Datalounge, then you're going to have to suck it up and deal with it when someone teases you about it. You can't go around using slurs and also be thin-skinned and whiny if someone calls you "Matt Damon" as a joke. That's pathetic.

R6 fuck that something that I thought I'd see only in Detective Conan!

So if the parents weren't high when they had the Brilllliant idea to a steep hike w. furry dog & year old infant in 100 degree heat w. little shade, what's the deal? Not low intellect from all reports. Happy, loving couple. Did lots of challenging stuff. Yoga person, so knowing about how bodies function. All I can think is limited I may..but damn even I wouldn't pull this stunt. Would you have done this kind of thing if you weren't high?

Someone upthread argued with me that the couple couldn't have financial problems because they own many rental properties... in California... in 2020-2021.

Do you see the failure in logic there?

They weren't familiar with the area and probably didn't know the trees were mostly gone after the wildfires, all the photos online show a lot of shady areas. They also likely underestimated how rugged the terrain is and how quickly it gets hot in the mornings.

People are acting like they went out there when it was 107F but I doubt that was the case.

i'm sorry but whenever I go on a day trip anywhere outdoors, I check the weather conditions by the hour...there is no way I would take a baby out when it's over 100 F

#449-Exactly! And they were to all appearances, smart, savvy, experienced..So, how did it happen if they weren't high??

You're obviously a newbie here r450, who told you that this would be a good place to write your little true crime fanfic? I'm curious.

R440 Thanks for the clarification.

R450 I'm guessing that will come out in the toxicology report.

#451..Well smell you! Do I have to ask permission from to your sorry ass to post??

Thought not..Fuck off Hall/milk monitor. Go check you cards & weep into the edge of your caftan

[quote] Do I have to ask permission from to your sorry ass to post??

[quote]Go check you cards

We do prefer you speak in the Queen’s English, however.

You know those survival courses which teach you how to find water in the desert, is there anything they could’ve found on or near the trail to help?

Or, if they’d had enough water (because it sounds like they were close to running out), would they have survived the intense heat? Even pouring it over their heads would’ve helped.

R412, I think the word I saw was "treating" it as a homicide, so preserving the scene, etc. Not that there was evidence that it was likely to be.

People who DJ, are into raves and go to Burning Man are often a bit druggy, R408. So are a surprising number of hikers, campers etc. A lot of people like to go into national parks and trip.

Or they could just have had shit judgement. Or liked to take risks. Shame baby and dog also died.

If they haven't already, the Forest Service should start posting warning signs on trails where the canopy has been strafed by wildfires and a once shady trail is now fully exposed.

She had had a traumatic brain injury from an accident, R413, so may not have been the best judge or may have had some mystical faith in transformation or overcoming, or some such. She also dj'd and went to Burning Man, so also likely a bit of a druggie. Also into yoga and integrative med. Shame that they did something so stupid and 4 lives were lost. Was it the AllTrails and Insta that made them throw caution to the wind?

[quote] R455 survival courses teach you how to find water in the desert, is there anything they could’ve found on or near the trail to help?

No. They just pissed on each others’ faces.

The dog may not have minded, but it must have been unpleasant for the baby.

Yeah, I heard they were all holding glow-sticks, and some inscesnse still burning around them when they were found, R459. So more than likely you're totally correct.

R414, they had been dead or dying for days in the extremely hot sun. We will see what could be discovered when more in depth autopsies are completed.

The LE and media should stop saying they were well equipped, 1 camelback is NOT enough water for 4 in 107 degree heat. And 1400 feet in elevation in that heat, at the END of the hike would have done in many and did, in fact, kill these 4 in all likelihood. These stories talking about them and the trail runner as "experienced" are BS. They were poorly prepared thrill seekers and now all are dead. They need to discourage people from hiking and running in extreme temps. If people understood how much water was required for safety and what it ways, they would nope out based on laziness. Way too many are dying out west, the media messaging needs to change.

“Burning Man Dude” is REALLY invested in this thread.

Yes, we get it. You found their Instagram and saw they went there three years ago. You’ve only mentioned it nine times now!

R450 I'll go with hubris, false confidence and risk taking personalities with a bit of narcissism thrown in. Both had AllTrails, they put their adventures on Insta, both DJ'd, etc. They were thinking about what THEY wanted to do, their self image, etc. Regular people think about things like the weather and not killing a baby and dog. I am not sure stupidity killed them as much as arrogance.

R445, a lot of hikers and campers filter water but the water there was contaminated with algae. That is the only reason I can think of that they would have carried in so little for 4 in 107 degree weather (may have been or felt hotter as the baked earth, granite and canyon walls all radiated heat). Filters would not work to eliminate the toxins.

There is NO excuse for starting that hike in the afternoon as LE have claimed.

The police report said they still had drinking water in their bag.

If you have had heat exhaustion before you are more susceptible. It is not uncommon at raves or in desert environs such as Burning Man or their desert adventure pictured on Insta. So they may have been overcome by the heat even more quickly but had false confidence re: rugged environments. The desert trip had guides so was far safer.

They said a small amount was left, they were likely rationing it.

1 camelback is NOT enough water for 4 for 107 degree heat.

[quote]They weren't familiar with the area

After four+ years?

The thing is with these mysterious deaths - the toxicology reports take about two weeks to come back, and oftentimes the public has moved on by then, and no follow-up article is ever written. We typically never learn why things happen.

They just bought a house in the area in July. They had previously lived in SF, R468.

The guy did have the easier segment of the trail on his AllTrails in the past, from a spring hike.

They need to make it hip and sexy to follow basic outdoor safety practices, live to hike/run another day, etc.

AllTrails should promote the same, same with running groups/clubs, etc., REI, etc. People should take a pledge to "stay cool" and not go out in extreme temps, etc.

Do not recreate outdoors in extreme temps, hike/run in rugged areas in spring & fall, how much water to carry per person, etc. That babies and young kids and dogs are most at risk, etc.

Where these folks died even a personal locator beam would not have helped, no satellite connection, but in many cases it WOULD save lives, etc.

[quote]They just bought a house in the area in July. They had previously lived in SF, [R468].

He bought the first Mariposa house in 2016. They've since bought other houses there, which are listed on vacation-rental sites.

They lived at The Hamilton and went to Mariposa on weekends until they made their primary residence.

They did not have experience with the exact trail they were on on Sunday and any possible microclimates. That said, no one found them on the trail on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday morning because all other locals avoided it in the extreme heat.

What is your theory about why they made the hiking choices they did if they had been in the area a lot, R472? Having never been on the most rugged trail, why attempt it when it was 107+ and why start in the afternoon? I wonder if once the baby turned 1 they felt like they could get back to their old adventures?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Per new DM piece, the baby was in the backpack but it was set on the ground, the guy was not wearing it when he died. The dog was found laying close to the baby. Goldens tend to be very protective.

[quote]The toxic algae is visible, correct? You can see it clearly in the warning photos. If they had gone into a pool with toxic algae, it was on their bodies or clothes, and it would have been found by now. Water evaporates but algae doesn't.

Maybe it's killer algae and crawled inside them to eat them from within like the alien in that movie Life!

Or maybe poor decisionmaking, extreme heat, rugged terrain, and unexpected lack of shade or potable water became a perfect storm to turn an afternoon hike into a tragedy.

Some suggest poor air quality due to fires may have impacted how quickly they were effected by the heat.

If you read her IG posts she recounts a close call due to misjudgments re: altitude while hiking together. Seems the likely cause is the obvious one. That experience did not make them cautious, nor did the baby being in tow. Sad.

I still think it’s odd that both adults died. I think it’s almost as odd that the dog laid down and died right there, too.

[quote]“Burning Man Dude” is REALLY invested in this thread.

Most of the comments in this thread are from one person, I'm surprised it hasn't been paywalled yet.

The baby has two names in this article; one new, and both wrong. Be best, Nancy Grace!

[quote]As CrimeOnline previously reported, John Gerrish, Ellen Chung, their 1-year-old daughter, Muji, and the family dog were found dead early Tuesday morning

[quote]Muju’s nanny also was alarmed to find no one at the family’s home when she arrived to work on Monday.

They needed a nanny?

[quote] If they haven't already, the Forest Service should start posting warning signs on trails

LEAVE YOUR FUCKING BABIES AT HOME, YOU IDIOTS!

They had a nanny and a house manager. They were doing very well financially.

R480, wait until they start accusing a jealous friend of forcing them to split one beer the day before as a means of intentionally inducing heat stroke.

You know it's coming.

Shocking as this incident is, I don't think it's unusual a family went hiking with a toddler. They probably have done this countless times. We are still in quarantine, people are looking for outdoorsy activities to enjoy to sidestep exposure to covid.

I’m thinking fentanyl.

That’s not a Golden.

[quote] Most of the comments in this thread are from one person, I'm surprised it hasn't been paywalled yet.

Saying the same shut over and over as if it’s fact. They do Not know these people—none of us do. The poster is s Websleuth grief-porn frau.

Not unusual at all, R485. Just this time, the heat and terrain led to tragedy for all 4.

echungster We started this trip with "all the gear and no idear" 😂 Jonny and I went into this not truly understanding how strenuous trekking at 13k altitude would be. There were times at the highest point (around 14k) where I felt nauseous and dizzy, but let my breath guide me one step at a time. But we made it back in one piece- with greater strength and accomplishment.

Shame not greater caution. Horrible tragedy.

Do groups of people typically die together of heat stroke? Isn’t it more likely that at least one of them could have gotten away? Maybe I’m wrong, I haven’t ever looked into this sort of thing. I’m guessing it isn’t common at all—hence why this case is still a mystery.

echungster This picture may seem like an ordinary day at work but for me, it's so much more. This past Tuesday was potentially my last time ever working for a technology company or maybe any company. After being diagnosed with a debilitating health condition, I realized I want to take life in a different direction. A direction with more intention, passion, and nourishment. So good bye corporate America and hello funemployment for now

Maybe this referred to the TBI?

It really is very sad, they seemed like nice and well meaning people. They had a hashtag for their adventures, just like the dead trail runner was known for. Sometimes a bit of caution let's you live to adventure again.

I got nothin but I've lived in California all my life and always felt that area was haunted. I even lived at Lake Tahoe but I've never been to Yosemite, the surrounding area creeps me out. My childhood friend's parents were building a house in in the Sierra National forest region and her mom almost died when a hammer head flew off the handle and crashed into her skull. My young niece was in the hotel where the Yosemite serial killer Carey Stayner worked as a handyman and got his female victims. She was there at the same time!!

Also since the fires and the heat that area is ugly. I would never hike there much less with a baby. I doubt any bitches here needs one more reminder or that it's even relevant to them but don't ever take a baby on a hike in fucking high temperatures with no cell service.

No R491, it is quite unusual for a group to all die at the same time of heat stroke. One would expect the dog and toddler to succumb first. The toddler and dog would have shown signs of distress before succumbing, so it is strange that one of the couple didn't run ahead to get to the car and get cell service.

That is super creepy, R493. I always wonder about the history of the names of these places, Devil's Gulch, etc.

The Stayner story is super dark, so glad your niece was unharmed. Lots of odd stuff seems to go on around national parks.

Some parks have started to install signs re: how much water is needed in different temps. If that amount is prohibitively heavy to tote, clue that hike might best be postponed.

These cases are so sad. It's likely that the dog or baby must have been in distress first, it must have been so scary for the adults to be incapacitated by heat and have no cell service. I do wonder if they had a water filter with them and were deterred by the algae. There is a much easier hike on another part of the trail. Maybe they just miscalculated the heat and did not bring enough water, they knew enough to conserve/ration it.

No, it isn't common at all, R491. Maybe if they were stranded and lost in the middle of a desert or something, it might not be that odd, but on a clear trail it definitely is, despite the heat. If what I've read is correct, they were a mile and a half from their vehicle. Which for a vaguely fit person should be only about a thirty minute walk, and I believe I read somewhere that the remained of the hike was down hill. So yes, it seems very strange that not one of the two adults wouldn't have been able to get to the vehicle and call for help or whatever. Not to mention the dog dying right along with them .

The remainder of the hike was steeply uphill, that likely was the issue.

The elevation from the river back to the truck was 1400 feet, the climb back up the switchbacks might have been too much if they were suffering from the heat. If the dog had become ill, say from drinking the algae water (they typically hiked with him off leash) one may have been carrying him and one carrying the baby. It was not a small dog. If they were trying to rush they might have had heat issues sooner. Where they were found was still so deep in the canyon that LE satellite phones did not work until they hiked out. You can run out of that situation in 107 degree weather when you are almost out of water and may have been conserving/rationing. I imagine they died over a period of time. The adults may not have wanted to leave one another until it was too late. Seems the woman made a final try, she was a bit further up the hill/trail.

Very tragic.

I do wonder why there was no effort to look for them on the trail when their car was found on Monday night? And if their nanny reporting it sooner may or may not have made a difference in outcome on Monday morning, so less than 24 hours in? If the baby was in distress seems they might have taken her out of the backpack, it would be cooler for her? But with heat stroke thinking gets off.

Because I am a doctor and was curious...this is an analysis of 7 autopsies of children who perished of heat stroke after being left in vehicles. The toddler's death is similar to these children.

"Autopsy findings included diffuse petechiae and hemorrhages of serosal membranes (n = 7/7) and lung congestion (n = 3/7)."

So it would be extremely unusual for the toddler to die of heat stroke without the petechiae/hemorrhage. This would be easily found on autopsy if it were present.

Those results have not been completed, R498. What other likely causes of death would you suspect? No signs of external injury or snake bite.

[quote] Seems the woman made a final try, she was a bit further up the hill/trail.

FARTHER! Not ‘further’.

Do NOT make me go over that lesson again.

R498. The pathologist would have observed the petechiae/hemorrhage under the microscope.

It is the toxicology results that are pending: this involves preparing tissues/fluids and performing time consuming mass spectrometry for possible chemical compounds not found normally in the human body (or higher than normal levels of compounds normally found).

Despite Occam's razor, I am not convinced this is heat stroke. Toxicology will solve this mystery, most likely.

For some reason, I read R493 in Helen Lawson's voice.

Maybe the baby and the dog died and the couple was so distraught that they killed themselves?

How did they do that, R503? Exposure?

I have seen a version of your theory floating around. I do think if the baby was in distress or had died they would have taken her out of the backpack, not just flipped the feet down and set it down on the trail.

It is likely the baby or dog would suffer first from heat. The whole thing is horrible to contemplate.

I think it will be of note if they had a water filter and if the water in the camelback shows any algae.

It could have been a combo of factors not just heat - heat + poor air quality due to wildfires + possibly tainted water or algae exposure if the dog went into the river.

Another theory is that they went into the river to try to cool off and were then affected by the algae in addition to the heat. I have known of dogs who died after exposure to algae in water in my town, no idea if what was in CA river would have a similarly quick impact.

Thanks for the local angle, R493.

It is really ugly after the fire. Was much prettier with the pine trees.

It's hard to imagine the baby was the first to show signs of heat sickness solely based on the fact that they still had water left in their camel back. Any parent would have used the rest of whatever water they had to pour over the baby, and try get some in its mouth to cool it off first and foremost. That and at least one, if not both, parents would have found the will to keep going to get help regardless of the heat, unless something else happened.

This is a very strange scenario.

Heat messes with your mind.

Lady in Arizona overheated on the trail, headed back and died because she tried to get help at a house but nobody was home.

I don’t want to hear any more about heat or heat stroke unless it’s about a group of people who all died from it together at the same time.

Often if some in a group die and some don't it is because help comes sooner than it did in this case. They may have been exposed in high heat for 48 hours at that point. They posted a photo of the backpack supposedly before 7 am but some accounts quoted LE as them having started the hike in the afternoon. If they had started out early and made a wrong turn (no gps with no cell coverage) or had some other emergency, they could have been out in triple digits for even longer. There was that case of the French? parents on a trip to US who gave their young son, maybe 8? most of the water, he did live. But an 8 year old can regulate heat way better than a 1 year old.

I wonder why the nanny did not raise alarm Monday morning? At least with the house manager. They might have been dead by then, but maybe not? Wonder if either was wearing an Apple watch or other device that might show route, and maybe biometrics?

1400 feet of elevation to get back to the truck is a lot. A flight of stairs is approximately 10 feet. They were only partway back up the switchbacks but still very far down, the distance was not the issue but the steepness of the climb when they had been hiking for hours in 107 degree heat and with poor air quality due to the fires.

That was a very sad case, R507. The dead trail runner may have headed toward buildings thinking there might be help too.

A lot of runners and hikers talked about getting a locator beacon after the Kreycik case but that presupposes hiking or running where you can get a satellite signal, if sat phones did not work, would a beacon work? I would assume SAR has decent gear.

We don't know the times of death for this family. One could have died Sunday, one Monday and one Tuesday am for all we know. Given the extremely steep trail and heat, neither adult seemed able to climb up out of the canyon. It's possible one may have been able to earlier on but they wanted to stay together in an emergency. That is pretty common. And then later they were too impacted by whatever killed them. No reason to think they died literally simultaneously. They were out there for 48 hours, maybe a bit longer.

If it were heat stroke, the baby would have been frying long before the parents. Babies' temps rise 5 X faster than adults under the same circumstances. Long before the parents would have become seriously ill, the baby would have been turning red, vomiting and becoming lethargic.

R508 bummer that you're not in charge

Okay, but why wouldn’t the initial autopsy have revealed heat stroke as the cause of death? As has been stated multiple times in this thread, there are telltale signs of heat stroke in people who’ve died from it, indications that would be there at an initial autopsy. It doesn’t take two weeks of toxicology testing to determine that three people died of heat stroke. Why are so many of you ignoring that?

R511 "No reason to think they died literally simultaneously."

By sheer definition of the word "simultaneously," you would not need to use the word "literally."

In that dead trail runner case they did not give that as a cause of death, but said he had an "emergency."

R514 unless YOU are the one conducting the autopsy, then your opinion is no more valid than the speculation of others here

This article about the dead trail runner addresses the heat stroke cause of death issue

Paywalled article, R518.

R517, one does not need to conduct the autopsy personally to be able to state what I and others have.

Are you also the “if you don’t know the exact measurement of the physical distance, ‘further’ and not ‘farther’ is the appropriate word” ding-dong from upthread?

.....

No speculation - that study showed 7/7 kids who died of heat stroke had visible petechiae/hemorrhage on autopsy and that this baby did NOT have petechiae/hemorrhage. Just the facts here. And that would be quite strange if the death was heat-related R517.

I’m surprised the male deceased was such a great big fat person (@ R520).

R522, I had the same reaction, he is big in that photo and others. It would seem that he was less able to handle the heat and exertion that the woman who was smaller and thinner. He was sat on the trail and she was closer to the truck, seemingly going for help. Of course he had also been carrying the baby and those frame backpacks are hot as hell. The baby is cute and chubby and was likely a good weight to be hefting on that steep uphill trail.

As temps get hotter out west and as more and more tree cover is taken out by wildfires it seems there are a lot of these sad deaths - people seem to overestimate their abilities and underestimate the demands of nature and terrain. This family and the dead trail runner all seemed to be trying to "fit in" outdoor recreation rather than planning it carefully and evaluating temperature, water needed (runner had none, these people had not enough), safety gear (no phone and in area with no cell coverage) etc.

Some have speculated a darker cause of death, the tox results should rule that in or out.

Mariposa County Sheriff ruled out gases from mines and said this

Sherrif Briese: “There was nothing around in the base basically besides the ground. There are other possibilities of, you know, just the natural elements of heat, and dehydration (or the hydration?), and the aggressiveness of this hike, but right now we don’t have any of those answers.

This dog looks to be of a similar size and furriness. What a nightmare if the dog succumbed first. Only algae filled river, no shad end miles up uphill steep trail. I'm not sure carrying the dog and the baby would have been feasible and can't imagine willingly leaving him in the canyon. Anyway, we don't know the timeline but this is interesting re: this dog's reaction to heat (and this dog was not hiking for miles, just hanging out, but furry).

Ugh, better link. The dog falls ill @ 7-8 min in.

To get a sense of the terrain and what LE called the "aggressiveness" of the hike

OMG… they were BRITS?!

Who cares??

[Quote]The baby has two names in this article; one new, and both wrong. Be best, Nancy Grace! As CrimeOnline previously reported, John Gerrish, Ellen Chung, their 1-year-old daughter, Muji, and the family dog were found dead early Tuesday morning Muju’s nanny also was alarmed to find no one at the family’s home when she arrived to work on Monday.

Nancy Grace, you in danger gurl - bad juju from Baby Muju.

R526. Yes, the dog is sick - but not his owner!

As I have discussed above, the dog and toddler would have been showing signs of significant distress LONG before the two adults. Why did not one parent head to the car with the cell phone? That is what makes this scene so strange. The baby (and dog) would have died first, and it seems strange that dad just sat down by the dying baby...

LOL, R528. Only the dude was.

Then he probably died of tooth decay.

I'm curious, DL experts. They started the hike at the easier end of the circuit if I've understood correctly. How far into their hike might things have gone bad? I'm trying to get my head around why they would keep pushing, with a by now obviously very unwell baby and dog, for the highly elevated end of the circuit instead of simply turning back and taking the easier route. Yes longer, but not as arduous. Thoughts?

Thanks to the poster with the Google Earth link, looks like hellish terrain.

It's all the same speculation at this point. But the copy/paste from her Instagram above--about their having misjudged the difficulty of another, high-altitude hike but having survived it with breath control and now having another accomplishment--is telling.

Hiking with babies and dogs is fine. Hiking with babies in 100-degree heat + no trees + arduous, uphill final leg + (most likely) not enough water = stupidity. And that applies even if it's later found that killer pond scum or Martian death rays or vengeful Native American ghosts killed them.

How much water did they carry?

I’ve always wanted to do the whole off-grid, close to nature thing but now that I have a dog, and reading all these stories, I’m reconsidering…her welfare is the most important thing.

[quote] vengeful Native American ghosts killed them.

I’m glad someone else finally said this. I knew I couldn’t have been the only one.

Maybe dehydration for the dad but something sinister for the others.

The mother's captions make me think she (and he) were armchair experts, "Just push through" types.

[quote]#451..Well smell you!

If you can sock puppet then you can damn well learn how to reply to someone correctly.

[quote]Fuck off Hall/milk monitor. Go check you cards

I don't know what any of that means. Please learn how to insult someone, unless your goal is to bore us to death. If so, then job well done.

[quote]Why did not one parent head to the car with the cell phone?

I think that's what the mother was trying to do, since she was further along the trail, but not by much.

Honestly, I think they didn't know there wasn't any shade anymore and they weren't accustomed to fast-rising temps in the morning, they got too far away, tried to make it back with the dad carrying the dog and baby and the mom trying to go faster to get to cell phone reception or their truck. My only doubt is that there haven't yet been any signs of either algae or heat stroke found, and you'd think they'd have found something by now.

Poor baby Mojo.

How could carbon monoxide or methane or anything like that have killed these people if they were in the open air at the time? What sort of huge amount of toxic gas would be necessary to kill them under circumstances like that, and why would this even have been considered as a possible cause of death here?

Also, I'm sorry if this sounds like blaming the victim, but I cannot believe any parents would bring an INFANT or any young child on a hike that's the least bit long and/or strenuous. I'm sorry that poor child had to die for her parents' stupidity and recklessness.

no, I think hiking babies is fucking stupid.

why do all of you think hiking with babies is fine? are you all fraus?

It really does look like a hellscape, R533 and so steep. Back when there were trees was much nicer.

I can more see the runner guy trying to fit in a run in a new area on his way somewhere more than this. This just looks ugly and miserable. Wearing kids in backpacks is really hot when it is way less than 107. Dude was pretty big and kina portly. Maybe it was just because this trailhead was close to new house?

I am not sure they did the loop, they might have done in via the very steep downhill trail down to the river then back out. That is some steep climb with no shade, 1400 feet is a big change in elevation, thus the switchbacks to make it walkable. Found so deep that LE satellite phones did not work at the scene. Even an idiot knows you have to climb back up the very steep trail at the end.

It sounded like they did have the dog on a leash, which was unusual for them, so they may have been aware of the algae danger. The guy was wearing the kid so the woman must have had the camelback, would not have been enough water for that hike in that weather for one person. Looking at her Insta it seems like they went on a lot of outdoor adventures, wonder how many had guides or others planning for things like water?

I agree with the local poster, would never want to hike there, so grim and such unforgiving terrain.

R535, 1 camelback for all of them.

Were they even wearing hats?

It IS a goddamned tragedy, but I'm also angry that it appears as though blatant arrogance and stupidity killed their baby and their dog, two innocents who had no say in the matter.

Has anyone mentioned they went to Burning Man or that they were found where even satellite phones couldn’t get reception?

I may have missed it.

I know people are often bad at estimating risk, but this is ridiculous, she had a "debilitating health condition," they had a baby and a dog, it was the height of summer and they were new to the area.

That's why I totally understand getting mad at them, but I'm still holding back on the judgement until we know more. There are a lot of camel bladders that hold over 3 liters, for example, and if they only planned on being out for an hour or two, that would have been enough, especially if they did leave near 7:00 a.m. Also, if something beyond their control happened and delayed them until it was too hot and they couldn't make it out, I'd be more sympathetic.

Has anyone checked on the whereabouts of the Zodiac Killer during this timeframe?

R549 lol

What we know so far:

They were reckless and stupid

They were experienced and smart

It was heatstroke

Couldn't have been heatstroke

It was toxic algae

It was CO 2

It was both

Babies don't belong on hikes

Nothing wrong with babies on hikes

It depends

Dog and baby died first they het up real fast

Homicide

No sign of homicide

Husband probably gay

Husband definitely fat

Wife a yoga cunt

had water

Not enough water

Went to burning man, relevant

Shut up about Burning Man already

Feel bad about baby and dog

I'm sympathetic to anyone who dies tragically at a young age but...if they left in the afternoon...

Locals say they hike that trail in spring and fall, not in summer.

There are not loads of photos hiking with the baby. She did say this about the close call they had hiking at altitude, embraced dippy rather than using gratitude to become more cautious. Maybe their "spirit dogs" were busy that day?

echungster We started this trip with "all the gear and no idear" 😂 Jonny and I went into this not truly understanding how strenuous trekking at 13k altitude would be. There were times at the highest point (around 14k) where I felt nauseous and dizzy, but let my breath guide me one step at a time. But we made it back in one piece- with greater strength and accomplishment. From seeing all these prayer flags spread their good will and compassion out to the open space and having our spirit dogs wag their tails and protect us the whole journey, we were so blessed

They wee thrill seekers who bought experiences for Instagram.

echungster We finally made it to Bhutan- the Kingdom of Happiness. Paro airport is known to be one of the most challenging airports to land at, and it was so exhilarating to experience. Only 8 pilots are qualified to land here! This place is already blowing my mind. #happyplace #bhutan #jellonadventures 168w

lorograms Omg SO JEALOUS!! I’ve always wanted to go, and have heard about the airport. Have a great trip!

She told the friend who spoke with media that they go hiking every weekend, this was pre-baby, was this in the cooler weather closer to SF? If they hiked regularly with the baby near new home seems they would have been more savvy about weather and picked a trail/hike rather than blindly going for the closest most "aggressive" per LE one. Not assumed "breath" and "spirit dogs" would save them from own folly.

Seems people who are new to outdoors and more familiar all seem to make same mistakes re: heat. Had to be a miserable day even before they got into trouble.

Neutron bomb dropped by North Korea?

A poster up thread makes a good point. If the baby was in distress first, one of the parents would’ve taken her out of the carrier. So if the wife was going ahead to get a cell phone signal and the husband sat down to stay behind, if the baby looked sick, he would’ve taken her out of the carrier to comfort her.

So maybe they were just waiting for the mom to come back with more water? And the husband died before the baby? Except she didn’t get far either before she collapsed.

It’s just so weird, nothing seems to make sense.

[quote]if they left in the afternoon

The photo of their backpack is timestamped about 7:00 a.m., correct?

The police have been somewhat imprecise with a lot of the things they've said so I'm not taking their comment about the family leaving in the afternoon as fact. The police were the ones who said that it could have been toxic gas, only to later say there were no other dead animals found in the area. They made the comment about the coroner's office working this as a homicide investigation without clarifying that they meant they were using the same procedures and didn't actually think it was a homicide. They're also apparently the source of the girl's misspelled name.

I'm not saying that they've botched anything but we may very well find out they didn't leave in the afternoon. It just doesn't make any sense for them to have left in the afternoon, at the hottest part of the day. Even the dumbest people would know better than that.

I'm not even sure she was trying for the truck, just to get higher on the trail to possibly get a cell signal.

Leaving earlier would make more sense re: heat and amount of water.

Wonder if raising an alarm early Monday morning might have made a difference?

Those switchbacks are completely exposed to the sun. If you have ever had heat exhaustion, it feels difficult to even move. The climb must have felt like Everest.

Apparently their previous close call just spurred them on, "with greater strength and accomplishment." No baby was going to get in their way!

Maybe these two adults would have been more sensible and cautious if they hadn't thought of themselves as having an audience.

People and Instagram are making for some tragic "Hold my beer" decisions.

Darwin works in mysterious ways, R558.

Well, this certainly is a mystery. I hope they did a toxicology test on the water they had left. Poisoning is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Heatstroke - and expect way more of these deaths due to climate change.

R560 their drinking water was already tested and nothing was found.

It was Bigfoot, dammit.

Again, my name is Daryl.

I thought you were a backyard squirrel, R564?

Some algae toxins are being found in the air. Maybe they sat by the river to cool off thinking not drinking the water was sufficiently safe? Then were overcome as they headed back? Could be a combo of algae, heat and poor air quality due to fires.

R566, oh, Christ, just what we need. I sure hope it was heat stroke..

When you hear hoof beats, don't go looking for Zebras.

Occam's razor.

Most likely heat-related deaths. Airborne algae is a zebra. How many hikers have died from exposure to airborne algae, yes none.

After heat stroke, poisoning/family annihilation is #2 cause.

[quote]Those switchbacks are completely exposed to the sun. If you have ever had heat exhaustion, it feels difficult to even move. The climb must have felt like Everest.

Exactly. We backpacked not far from where they were, at Ten Lakes. Each person needs at least two liters of water for a day of hiking. You also need sweet and salty snacks or tablets to balance your sodium and electrolytes. At one point, my legs felt like lead and I could only take one step at a time until someone handed me a salt tablet, at which point I was moving again. In addition to cell phones, we had walkie talkies and a satellite phone. Magical thinking is not going to get you through the high Sierra.

R568, 76 people died from airborne cyanobacteria in Brazil in one incident alone, and that was over 20 years ago. There have been more incidents since. Don't say "none" have died when all you're doing is making assumptions. Look it up first.

The road not taken…

[quote] When you hear hoof beats, don't go looking for Zebras. Occam's razor. Most likely heat-related deaths.

Except that’s not what the autopsy shows.

Maybe they did something really bad and God smote them?

I can’t imagine wanting to backpack through unforgiving terrain on a hot day. A few weeks ago I went to the beach near Rockaway and I felt like I was going to pass out or puke just from walking across the sand from our truck to the water!

She had to marry a white guy. She could be in a luxury duplex in Manhattan if she'd married an Asian American hedge fund manager. But no. Had to have the crunch Patagonia-wearing white guy.

He's kinda fat too, R575, maybe she liked the British accent and how he dj'd in Mongolia?

crunchy*

I'm having a hard time sussing out what debilitating disease she had that prevented her from working but enabled her to do these adventures? Was that the TBI she refers to or something else? Life may not have been quite so Insta worthy off camera.

Lots of people with young kids or during quarantine were desperate to get out, but no one else used this trail from Sunday morning to Tuesday morning. Locals hike it in spring and fall. In spring a different, non strenuous section is known for wildflowers.

Others have posted that they had difficulty with exerting themselves outside over the weekend due to not only heat but poor air quality. May have been several factors.

Is there such a thing as a British accent?

there are dozens of British accents-both regional and by class - the husband went to University of Newcastle - don't know if he comes from there. People from Newcastle are Geordies and they have accents like Glaswegians with their heads kicked in.

[Quote] they have accents like Glaswegians with their heads kicked in.

How... vivid.

Are house managers a common thing in their set? Or were her executive functions maybe impacted by the TBI? I have only known families where say the wife was a law partner with demanding hours to have a house manager in addition to a full time nanny.

Sad to die so young, all of them.

It was the salmon mousse.

They owned multiple properties and I believe rented them out, so the house manager may have actually been a property manager.

Good point, R584.

That’s exactly what it is, r584. He’s the listed contact for their vacation rentals.

The one time I had dehydration / heatstroke while hiking, it came on very quickly. we were doing a long hike and had left later than planned so we didn't take as much time to rest / eat / drink as usual. I had lots of water with me but just didn't drink enough and since I hadn't emptied my water, I didn't refill much during the hike. I was perfectly fine for 85%. Then I just started to feel tired and within 5 minutes, I was having difficulty talking / making sense. Thankfully my travel companions were able to get me cooled off and water into me and on my body and they had electrolite tablets but I went from fine to needing to be fully taken care of in about 10 minutes.

[quote]Lots of people with young kids or during quarantine were desperate to get out . .

Yes but wasn't that a desperation to get away from the young kids? And maybe away from your partner. Otherwise they had no more desperation than anyone else did to get back to normal.

I suspect they mean a House Keeper - is House Manager some new obnoxious name for a House Keeper - cause that what a House Keeper does - takes care of the management of your household. Unless her TBI made her incapable of even that and the person was really a Care Taker as in Britney Spears caretakers.

if the person manages their properties then that is a Property Manager not a House Manager. Seriously what's this shit about changing the definitions of every word we use.

I have a better name: House Wrangler. Though I guess it's all moot now.

It must have felt like an oven in that exposed canyon. Between the burned landscape and the algae covered river it is like some dystopian nightmare.

Glad you were ok, R587. For those who have not experienced it, it is easy to underestimate how disabling heat can be. No shade on that trail at all. And the only way to help is so steep there are switchbacks, absolute horror, all of it.

The Brit must have really been HATING America in his last moments, prone on the trail, wincing up at the broiling sun.

This is so "look at me" and showing off. Why are we acting like this reckless behavior should be encouraged or even tolerated? Had they survived I would have been happy to call Child Protective Services. I guess they saved me a call.

[quote]It must have felt like an oven in that exposed canyon. Between the burned landscape and the algae covered river it is like some dystopian nightmare.

Yes, and what kind of pleasure is there in hiking under those circumstances? Why the FUCK would anyone want to, let alone with a baby -- and a dog? I feel great sorrow for the loss of the baby and the dog, none at all for the reckless, selfish, idiot parents.

Is someone going to start a part two?? If you do, remember to link to this thread.

Foolish and arrogant people. You had to take the kid AND the dog?

This makes my blood boil.

I started a Part Two.

Yikes, R594, that headline should be hung up at trailheads.

[quote] This makes my blood boil.

Theirs too, apparently.

There's some line in Thorton Wilder's play The Matchmaker, the basis of Hello, Dolly!, about the difference between a house-keeper and a a householder but I'm too drunk to remember it. And it's only late afternoon.

"Marriage is a bribe to make a housekeeper think she's a householder."

And I think this is not the right thread.

Can you heatstroke trolls give it a rest? It's been said a million times already that this has been ruled out.

Y'all are so confident and incorrect.