Why would anyone want to be a lawyer?

How is a job "expensive"?? What kind of lawyer anyway? Some of my college friends went to the top law firms and worked years for white-shoe law firms and it was a great life.

It might suck to be a middling IQ, stuck in a shitty firm, without huge rewards. I think it might be cool to be an independent lawyer doing modest work in a random town. Kind of like social work and temporary therapist, I bet.

I always wished I went to law school. Whatever you do with it they teach you how to think.

Law school is hella expensive.

I chose my major in order to put me on the Pre-Law track, but by my senior year I was ready to be done with school.

I dated a guy who graduated from law school, but refused to take the bar exam. That didn't make a lot of sense to me...especially since he ended up becoming a paralegal.

My lawyer friends in LA own nice houses (sometimes more than one), nice cars, and nice stuff, and they don't seem stressed out. But they all got fat during the past year, so that makes me feel better about my middling career in government.

R2 Good law schools will also refine English language skills.

Oh dear; the "missing a law school education" edition.

It is a job that has money and status, without actually requiring much intelligence and far easier than becoming a doctor.

R4 did he ever take the bar?!

R8 up the butt.

I know this young lawyer who’s a part-time model. He is so fucking sexy, smart, nice AND gay - the most total package you’d ever want. If only I was young and sexy too… *sigh*

R8, he said he didn't. He was a smart guy so I don't think he would have trouble passing.

R6, when last was your dick sucked?

R11 what is he doing now? I'm fascinated that he spent that much money and time to become a paralegal (which is a community college level job).

Was he in debt?

I would have dumped him for lack of ambition and not following through tbh.

Both my parents are lawyers. So is my brother.

My father worked at a large firm, became partner and makes a lot of money. But he did work a lot of hours, especially in the earlier years. He always says he got lucky in that the internet was still relatively new when he was as associate (80s) and so there was nothing like the 24/7 pressure that there is today.

As a result, he's advised my brother to work in BigLaw for a few years and then get a gig as a general counsel or in-house lawyer. The pay is good but not insane (say $200K- $500K+ depending on where you live and the size of the company) but the hours are much more conducive to having a life outside of work.

My mother worked at a big law firm before I was born (that's where my parents met) but then tried to do part time when I was born but it wasn't working so she gave it up. Once my brother and I were older (high school) she went to work for a small firm where she was able to use her expertise (Trusts and Estates) and has fairly sane working hours.

Many lawyers also go on to do other things in the business world--you will find a number of CEOs who are lawyers.

There's a wide range to the profession too, from Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinnie type solo practitioners to people with trust funds who work at non-profits to boutique firms and the giant "BigLaw" firms.

[quote] I went to law school. Whatever you do with it they teach you how to think.

uhm, that is the point of all liberal arts degrees too, bunky

Law's an entirely different approach. You must be a liberal arts grad. Congratulations. I've always wondered what it's like to not have to game your taxes to pay none, dear.

LOL... yes, lawyers and liberal arts grads have soooooooo much in common. Absurb. Telling.

They never prepared me to have to repeatedly inhale Rudy Guiliani’s farts, which I can still smell in my gas chamber nightmares.

R17 Actually, a liberal arts degree is mostly reading classic literature. Lawyers have to have good reading comprehension. Ergo, they have similarities.

In fact, a recent study was conducted over the best and worst majors for law schools. Criminal justice, education, and pre-law were at the bottom of the list as the worst. The best majors were science, math, philopshy, and economics. Liberal arts, history, and business degrees were in the middle.

And basket weaving. Always vital in deductive reasoning. Find your hairnet and mask and don't be late for your shift. That student loan won't pay itself off.

"pre" anything as studies is for the middlebrows and simpletons. Possible exception - pre-med - but that just means take the courses necessary. I knew English majors who went on to med school. Sheesh. There are NO courses necessary to go on for a JD, or an MBA, etc. I studied art and political economy and started in banking at Chase.

R2: “ Whatever you do with it they teach you how to think.”

No, they don’t. You just pay for the degree. Learning comes from work.

"Pre med" just means you want to go to medical school and are taking the sort of STEM classes that you need to have as a foundation.

But plenty of English majors also go to med school.

They either took organic chemistry and the like as undergrads or they take the course at a local college as a postgrad.

If you're smart and hard-working and got good grades at a top law school, then the big law > corp counsel route is feasible and not a bad life at all.

It's just that that's a relatively small proportion of practicing lawyers: 20 percent would be a generous estimate. For an awful lot of practitioners with middling grades at middling schools, starting a career can be a struggle.

I am a paralegal. All the lawyers are fucking crazy/evil.

I know two very intelligent and ethical men who got law degrees and passed their bar exams but dropped out of the profession because they couldn't stand it. It really is one of those professions in which it pays to be a bit of a psychopath.

I went to law school back when it was sold as an “all purpose” useful degree, much the way an MBA is today.

My grandfather was a lawyer with a country law firm in rural Michigan. He sometimes got paid in livestock. My mom and all my uncles became lawyers too. For them, it was a calling and led to interesting lives. One uncle became a circuit judge. Another helped usher in wind energy on unused/derelict farm land. My mom became a corporate lawyer in the defense industry working for huge corporations. She traveled to China, Brazil, all over Europe. Then eventually got a diplomatic appointment form the UN and helped with rebuilding Cambodia's infrastructure after Pol Pot's regime.

You always hear about how awful lawyers are and there's truth to that. But there's another side to it besides the money that you dont hear too much about (though admittedly my mom made big bucks during her corporate years).

Most lawyers are screaming bottoms

I'll get pilloried on DL for this, but...Because if you want to make a difference for things/issues/people you care about, a law degree comes with a bucket of useful skills and unimpeachable credibility.

I retired after 30 years as a lawyer. Didn’t care for it though the money was good. In my experience some of my fellow lawyers were among the most unhappy people I ever met.

Some other professions were not welcoming.

“ if you want to make a difference for things/issues/people you care about, a law degree comes with a bucket of useful skills and unimpeachable credibility.”

No. You can do all this without a JD. Law school is a grift. 3 years of profit skimming by the education industrial complex.

R33 How do you get the unimpeachable credibility of a Harvard law degree without going to Harvard?

Yes, credentials count.

I practiced law for 25 years. First at a big firm, later at a corporation.

I made--and saved--enough for my husband and me to retire at 50. I put my law license on "inactive" status but have no intention of "activating" it again.

I thought that law practice was intellectually challenging but soul-destroying.

I work in music, and I told my entertainment attorney that I was thinking about going to law school. He said "Don't do it. Have you ever met an entertainment attorney that wasn't a miserable prick?" He was right, and I went to get my MBA instead.

R34: “How do you get the unimpeachable credibility of a Harvard law degree without going to Harvard?”

There’s no such thing as “unimpeachable credibility”. But to otherwise answer your question, there is no way to get a Harvard law degree without going to Harvard.

"Unimpeachable credibility" is a joke:

Rudy Giuliani has a law degree from NYU.

Matt Gaetz has a law degree from William & Mary.

Kellyanne Conway has a law degree from Georgetown.

Ted Cruz has a law degree from Harvard.

Josh Hawley has a law degree from Yale.

As a lawyer, nearly all of my friends are lawyers. All but a couple do them hate it and wish they hadn’t gone to law school. They (and I) feel trapped in a field we are not actually suited for.

As an interesting aside, for what it’s worth, all of them are interesting, intellectually curious, vivid people. At a certain time, law school was a catch-all for students intimidated by math and/or science classes.. These days, I think the grift is up and the youngsters are well aware of the way schools lie about job placement, salary, etc.

R38 Just because those individuals attended those schools doesn’t make the schools less impressive, nor does having a law degree make anyone a decent person. There are countless asshole lawyers…who are still smart/achievers.

Those schools are “impressive” because people are easily impressed.

In actual practice, there is no difference between a grad from Northeastern Law and Harvard Law.

R41 No difference apart from career possibilities.

Every single sitting Supreme Court justice holds a law degree from either Yale or Harvard. Except for Amy Barrett, who went to Notre Dame.

Head to Harvard or Yale instead of Northwestern and your chances for an interesting and rewarding legal career multiply times-fold.

R19 I believe my bachelor of journalism degree served me well as preparation for law school. Now, after 20+ years of practicing law, I am beyond burn out. I no longer give a shit about anyone else's problems. So many clients are so emotionally needy and demanding. I continue only to squirrel away for $$ for a comfortable retirement.

R42 - There is no question that going to Harvard or Yale will open opportunities that are not open to people who went to lower ranked law schools. But that is because of misplaced positive bias toward those schools.

I know attorneys who love novels by Steinbeck, Forster, Wharton, Thackeray, Dickens, etc. These lawyers love their work.

I also know attorneys who hate reading and writing.

We had good law careers (and stardom).

[R44] Which brings to mind Sen. Hruska's famous remark during the unsuccessful attempt to confirm G. Harrold Carswell, LL.B. Mercer Law School, to a seat on the Supreme Court.

"So what if he is mediocre? There are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they? We can’t have all Brandeises, Cardozos, and Frankfurters and stuff like that there."

Argumentative people.

My fave line from Legally Blonde:

Law school is for ugly, boring people.

Lawyers may be clever, witty, and impossible to beat at scrabble or logic BUT they are also…sociopaths.

R45 I love reading classic literature and I enjoy writing….still hate being a lawyer.

I kind of wish I had gone for a J.D instead of Ph.D. $$$$$$$

I wish the profession and law schools worked harder to attract more outside-the-box thinkers. There are a lot of people on DL I bet would make excellent lawyers (obsessive overanalyzers, great storytellers, anyone nosy or who likes playing detective). And there are a lot of jobs in the field that won’t kill your soul like working for whatever rich assholes can afford to hire a white-shoe law firm.

You can make a small difference in the world while maintaining some emotional distance and getting paid enough to live well on—for example, if you prosecute financial crimes or fraud on consumers.

The best advice I got was to understand that trial attorneys just tell stories for money, and the more convincing story wins. That’s why rich assholes waste chunks of their fortunes on endless legal battles, they’re paying brilliant people to essentially write “you are correct, you are the victim” in more formal language over and over. Another great piece of advice was from a lawyer who studied archeology, who said the jobs were practically the same thing - looking over a bunch of documents and data and trying to build a picture of events.

One of the nicest lawyers I have met was my parents elder law attorney. He helped me navigate Medicaid for them. Also set up power of attorney for my parents, etc. Took a lot of stress off of me.

To the miserable lawyers above -- if you had vision, a soul, and wanted to make the world a better place, a law degree is a pretty fucking awesome tool. I've done a lot of good in the world (as an environmental lawyer) with my degree, and I have made enough to pay the mortgage and live happily ever after.

Well good for you R55!

R56 is a hateful cretin. Eat 💩, you twat.

[quote] I've done a lot of good in the world (as an environmental lawyer) with my degree, and I have made enough to pay the mortgage and live happily ever after.

Well, polluters pay more than fees than trees. I was in prosecution, but make several times representing the scum I used to send to prison. If my clients knew how contempt I really have for them, they'd never hire me.

Sounds like it’s good to be R58, too!