What was the absolute best of the top Nighttime Soaps?

Dynasty had bitches fighting, wedding massacres, gay dudes with face-swaps and hot ex-wives, and a ton of "surprise witnesses" in courtrooms.

Ain't nobody givin' a fuck about "Sisters." That show was "thirtysomething" meets "Desperate Housewives" meets a Boise whorehouse. It sucked.

R1 actually I knew a lot of people who loved it back when it was on.

Didnt Sela Ward win her first Emmy for that show?

Alec Baldwin was so sexy on Knots!

R2

Make no mistake: Sela and Swoozie are lovely talents who haven't gotten near enough regard in this business, but that show still sucked.

It's four women with male names, and they kinda hate each other? And one is a drunk? And three are rich? And the drunk one moves away and is suddenly replaced by a half-sister we never met before that week?

The main thing I remember from Sisters was Ashley Judd was on it.

I could never get into Knots Landing, I didn't find the characters or setting compelling.

I enjoyed Dallas and Dynasty, but was devoted to Falcon Crest - didn't miss an episode from season 2 to season 6, losing interest after Chase died.

R5

Ashley Judd. Another talent who never got her due.

Was that because she wouldn't fuck Weinstein? Does this mean there are dozens of hacks out there who DID get ahead because they DID fuck Harvey?

I'm looking at you, Goop and Uma.

Although the return of Bobby killed the show, Dallas was probably the strongest for its first eight or so seasons.

I think Knots Landing had the best writing.

Dynasty just hasn't aged well. It's fun to watch for nostalgia but it isn't something I like to watch over and over again like Dallas or Knots or Falcon Crest. The writing was so much better on those three shows. Dynasty didn't care about character development.

R8

What about the Dallas reboot? JR lost his mojo when he became too old and sickly to scam anything beyond a bowl of oatmeal.

Dynasty for me. I was a huge Pamela Sue Martin fan, which was why I started watching about age 10. I loved John James. I used to obsess about the good vs evil characters & loved the saintly ones ((Krystle, Jeff). I never got the Alexis fandom!

Knots Landing was by far the best to me. Best written and consistent by far, usually cast good actors and changed with the times. It outlasted the rest for those reasons.

R11 agree

I actually liked Sisters 🤷

Dallas, Dynasty and Melrose Place all had a few peak seasons in which they were very entertaining, but all went to shit eventually,

Agree with Knots being the best. It also had an edge and a sort of self-awareness of its own inherent absurdity the others didn’t.

I think the reason I liked KL the best was because it didn’t do a lot of “business” storylines. I’ve never had any interest in that kind of stuff whether it be daytime or nighttime soaps. The only work storylines I enjoyed was on Melrose Place.

Knots for days. The triumvirate of Abby, Karen and Valene was unrivaled in terms of three female leads who each brought something special to the series, generating tons of character driven storylines that kept viewers hooked. The show never generated the hype and hysteria of Dallas and Dynasty but it went the distance and has a cult following to this day. The second this series gets released on a streamer, it will be a moment.

I voted for Dallas because it rather set the standard and was pretty brilliant in its heyday. If we make our choice just by the peak of each, then I’d vote for Melrose. MP was must see TV.

“...were on Melrose Place.”

Yes, Melrose Place was must see Tv that everyone watched and spoke about at work.

Knots also had a better cast than many of the others and better characters.

I do love Peyton Place too. I’ve been watching it on YouTube and it’s highly enjoyable for a 60s soap.

Knots Landing had the best writing and a great ensemble cast. David Jacobs' way of running a serialized show really worked magic for this one. It's hard to keep a show good for that many years, keeping everything consistent without becoming formulaic.

Falcon Crest is still my favorite though: The first five years are still my favorites (even over KL). It had the perfect mix of glitz and glam, with two excellent villains, without being over the top. And it had the gorgeous setting of wine country which is still a setting I want to retire in when I'm old. I want to grow old in Chase Gioberti's house.

I’ve never seen Hotel but my mom used to watch it.

Falcon Crest was an example that shows what happens when studio and network don't care enough. Often enough the studio's meddling can really hurt a show and the show runner's vision. With Falcon Crest though the show runners changed way too often, four or five times in a nine year run. Lots of people like the sixth and seventh season for its added humor. But the show changed its character tremendously then. To me, it lost its homely feeling in wine country which made the shows' appeal imo. It also changed characters too much, like selfish Chase and horny Maggie. (Love Susan Sullivan but I did not need to see Maggie's sex life in Victoria's secret.) And don't get me started on the last two seasons.

I think with a bit more oversight by the studio the show could have been better. But it was never a first tier success in the ratings and therefore did not get the last 20% of care it needed to stay awesome.

I agree with R11 that Knots Landing was the most consistent and best written of all the 1980s nighttime soaps. It was more character-driven and maintained its quality for longer than the others. Dynasty was very good its first year as well as its second when it added Joan Collins, but by its fourth year the storylines started to become ridiculous.

Dallas was the first and best for quite some time. It was very good all the way up until Bobby died. The Dream Season was not as bad as some make it out to be, but it still was the first dip. The return of Bobby was for me when it really dipped. Then Victoria Principal left. Bobby and Pam were the heart of the show, the Romeo and Juliet the show was originally supposed to be centered on until Larry Hagman became the focus, and rightly so, and Linda Gray stunned with her portrayal of Sue Ellen. But no matter what, Bobby and Pam were the couple most of the audience rooted for. When Pam left after having to endure a season without Bobby, the show sank for me.

Knots continued to deliver quality storylines. I was also always amazed at how Knots could add new characters that worked with the original ensemble. Probably the best addition of those was William Devane as Greg Sumner. By the end of the run, you thought of Devane as an original cast member. Knots faltered in its last couple years, but for 11 years it was a good, consistent show. Therefore, it gets top marks from me. But Dallas was a close second because of the first-rate quality of its first 8 seasons.

Falcon Crest, season two finale, still the best cliffhanger ever. Julia was my favorite character and I screamed "No!" as the camera swirled around everyone then settled on her. Abby Dalton had a few powerful moments in the first two seasons but the following season she was deliciously over the top.

Another great thing about the season 2 FC cliffhanger was that storylines were spun from it for years, unlike the one and done cliffhangers on Dallas and Dynasty.

[quote]I could never get into Knots Landing, I didn't find the characters or setting compelling.

I was never sure why I didn't find it compelling, but I didn't. I think it was the actors, to be honest. Michelle Lee with her 2-expression face.

I want to give a vote for Peyton Place. This was my parents and grandparents' generation, but what a show, it was so popular it was on three nights a week at one point. The cast was pretty great. I most all of it in reruns in the 80s or 90s - I forget which network had it.

*watched most of it in reruns

"Soap"

In a sick twisted way, Dallas was lucky to have lost Jim Davis after a couple seasons. It got a lot of mileage out of that loss. I think it took them half a season to pronounce him missing, and another half season for Miss Ellie to even acknowledge that he is dead. Then the entire year about the fight for Ewing Oil based on Jock's will. And all story lines came out of this thread for those two years. Really nice story telling. Again in an unfortunate way, I think it made a difference that Jim Davis had passed away. Imagine, they just had fired the actor. The story lines would not have had the same impact as they actually had. Once that second year after Jock was over, Dallas got back into business as usual.

One of the things about these shows that I also loved were their openings. Pretty much all of them were great. They made you want to watch the show. KL - just for an example.

I disagree with networks eliminating theme song openings. I know it’s about the all mighty $ and having limited time to tell story, but boy, they really added to the shows.

Dynasty has one of my favorite openings because of its music. Very elegant and classy. Loved it!

A vote for THE COLBYS. The entire run is available on YouTube. Still holds up well. Naturally, you have to enter the land of suspended disbelief, but everyone hits their mark and does their own best work.

My all time favorite is the season 4 arrangement of Falcon Crest.

Me too OP, Knots Landing was my drug. I'm still an addict every time i start watching it again. Can't get over this show. That being said, I didn't like when Val was married to Danny Waleska. My favs were: Karen McKenzy, Mac McKenzy, Laura Avery Sumner, Greg Sumner, Lilimae Clements, Abby Cunningham Ewing.

Ah Jeez, best times of my life.

R31 I agree 100% with you.

Here the French opening of Knots Landing. In France it was called Côte Ouest ( West Coast). I like the French opening too.

It's a toss up between Peyton Place and Knots Landing

Aside from the ridiculous plotlines, Dynasty suffered from too many cast shake-ups with poor replacements. It's still immensely enjoyable, but the quality definitely suffered over time and none of the recasts were as good as the actors that originated the roles of the Carrington kids (Pamela Sue Martin, Al Corley, Catherine Oxenberg, etc.).

Here's the Knots Landing Cast reunion just a few months ago during the pandemic;

Let's face it Alexis Colby Carrington, Krystle Carrington, Abby Cunningham Ewing and J.R Ewing were the absolute 80s divas

"Flamingo Road" was my favorite, at least for the first season. (Like all these shows, the second season they brought in a new character that totally changed the show--in this case for the worse. The show only lasted two seasons.

I love that even the PJs had shoulder pads back then.

[quote] Ain't nobody givin' a fuck about "Sisters." That show was "thirtysomething" meets "Desperate Housewives" meets a Boise whorehouse. It sucked.

But it did introduce us to the eternally boyishly cute Paul Rudd.

[quote] Dynasty for me. I was a huge Pamela Sue Martin fan, which was why I started watching about age 10.

Same here. I tuned in for PSM, and quit watching when she left. As for eye candy, my preference was Al Corley (whether the character was gay or not, Al was always hot).

Knots Landing. We lasted 14 years... jealous bitches?

Dynasty wins my vote, because seasons one and two were so distinct, with good acting, good writing and really, really good sets. It was rapidly as bad as the rest of them after Adam's reveal in season 3. Falcon Crest did well with stunt casting and willingness to kill almost anybody.

When this thread quiets we should do a run off as the three way split between Dallas, Dynasty and Knots is interesting.

My favorite will always be Knots Landing. One of the things I did find amusing was how, as time went on, the core characters original children were phased out in favor of toddlers in a desperate attempt to make them look eternally 35. Adios Lucy, Eric, Diana, Jason, and Annie. Seriously, by the time Megan came around it looked like grandparents fighting over a playdate.

Knots Landing was the best. I like how it evolved over time. The first 3 seasons are a completely different show than the rest, but still required viewing because of how intimately we get to know these characters and how they did try to show middle class problems at first. Killing Sid was so shocking but it really did give Karen an amazing storyline and Michele Lee should have won an Emmy for that season, specifically her “Letting Go” speech. Then in season 4 the show gets a shot of energy with the arrival of Ciji and Chip and doesn’t lose the momentum until maybe season 9 when it starts to falter. But even when it faltered, it was still watchable all the way thru the end.

Dynasty had probably the best season of any 80s soap with season 2, but it could not keep the quality. The writing went to absolute shit after that and it became 100% style over substance. Still fun, but not the intelligent, semi-satirical/ironic show it started off as.

It's interesting that people are still overall in favor of Dynasty. Only three seasons are considered good, the first two and the last. Everything in between is universally considered garbage. And yet, people still rank the show very high if not highest. Kinda confirms that Aaron Spelling's approach was right. His TV never aspired to be great or even good. He removed as much talent as possible from his show to save a buck. And people were (still are!) fine with it.

R50 1, 2, and 9 are the only well-written seasons of Dynasty, but it still managed to be [italic]fun[/italic] trash until the Moldavian Massacre. That’s why it’s so shocking that another Spelling show would make the same mistake when Melrose had the apartment complex blow up (the end of that show being fun trash as well.)

The best thing about Knots' last years... BOYD KESTNER!

What a damn waste. TIIC had no idea how to use this prime beef and wasted him with ugo-couger Kathleen Noone (Bleech). Claudia was no Abby.

Everyone trashed Melrose Place’s later seasons but I liked season 6 and 7. I thought Lexi was a great addition

My favorite was Lar Park Lincoln ( the best name ever) as Linda Fairgate. What a mess. I'm assuming that Nicolette took all the shine from that character, because she should have been around to the end of the show's run.

DLers always hate on Paige

I loved Paige. Sheridan and Devane had great chemistry. Unfortunately Devane looked ten years older his age and Sheridan I think had to play a girl five years younger her age. And a twenty year old doesn't look good with a fifty year old. But still, she could totally hold her own against him and everybody else.

Linda Gray was fabulous on Dallas. The vodka, the big furs and luxury cars!

FC was my favorite. The houses, parties, clothes and wine country setting seemed classy and cool compared to the over the top Dynasty and red neck tinged Dallas. It also had a female main character villain who was way past menopause. No other show had that. It was also the only show that had a real priest playing a priest and giving out real Catholic teaching advice to characters. And lastly it holds the record for the most bottles of wine opened, toasts and wine glasses filled.

What was "redneck tinged" about Dallas r58?

Dallas is back in the lead

Knots went on to have the best cliffhangers. Valene arriving at The Fisher house (“Haaaaaaarrrrrry, gooooo! They waaaaannna take the baaaaaabeeees!!!”), Abby burying Peter Hollister (“I think it’s a settling crack… what do you think Abby?”), and of course, Jill forcing Valene to overdose (“I can’t without water!!!”).

[quote] Jill forcing Valene to overdose (“I can’t without water!!!”).

Jill: You're going to commit suicide.

Val: No one's gonna believe that.

Jill: EVERYONE's going to be believe it! Listen to how trippingly it rolls off the tongue... Poor Val committed suicide.

I have no idea if it's true or not, but Joan Van Ark said during the recent COVID reunion online that the horror and fear you see in her during those Jill scenes was real. For whatever reason, Van Ark was convinced they were really going to kill off her character.

It was one of their best ever cliffhangers. Tra-la-la-dada-dee-dee it gives me a thrill...

R59 Dallas was "red neck tinged" because you could smell manure at Southfork, it was the south, they had southern accents, they wore cowboy hats to the office, and. . . need I go on? The Giobertis and Channings were cooler and classier. Their houses were nicer. Tasteful friends would agree. They dressed better. Mr. Blackwell would agree.

Hotel was not really a prime-time soap. Not a serial. It followed the same format as The Love Boat.

Hotel did get a bit soapy in its final seasons, after Anne Baxter's death necessitated the corresponding death of her character, hotel owner Victoria Cabot: Efram Zimbalist Jr became a rival for ownership of the hotel and had his daughter (Michelle Phillips) hired on to spy on everybody. But the parade of guest stars continued at the same time.

I'm watching Falcon Crest for the first time. Can someone explain... what the hell is WRONG with Emma?

R41, I too remember Flamingo Road fondly but it was too short lived to have any impact. It was campy, trashy with Morgan Fairchild, John Beck, Mark Harmon and other great cast.

Jamie Rose, as teenage Vicky Gioberti, looked and sounded older than Susan Sullivan, playing her mother.

Jane Wyman had the perfect stink face and bitch voice for this role. I get a real kick out of Angela.

I loved Flamingo Road, too. It was a hairy-chest-fest with John Beck and Mark Harmon.

I need to watch Flamingo Road.

[quote] It's interesting that people are still overall in favor of Dynasty. Only three seasons are considered good, the first two and the last. Everything in between is universally considered garbage.

Ma’am we’re talking about soap operas. Soap operas are garbage tv.

R67 Nothing is suppose to be mentally or physically wrong with Emma. She's just an eccentric artsyish free bird really sweet type who loves her family a lot no matter what.

Emma suffered from Laura Wingfield syndrome. It's kind of a stock character for soaps and melodrama: fragile, delicate flower under thumb of domineering parent or husband. Usually the character has an arc to play at least.

"Emma is just fine and you were just leaving. CHAO-LI!"

I'm in Season 2 now. Carlo Agretti has been murdered. Yes, I know who did it.

R75 where are you watching this?

R76, Amazon Prime Video.

R76 - They have the entire run of Falcon Crest? WTF? Where's my Knots Landing?!

Knots is forgotten.

Forget-me-knots! Falcon Crest hasn't aged well... it's like vinegar.

Falcon Crest still has fans. Knots does but you never hear about it. It’s dead.

You still hear about Dynasty, Dallas, Falcon Crest… but never Knots

R81. Honey, there is a whole world outside of your head.

R82 I know. I’m a realist who is telling the truth. Knots is dead in pop culture. That’s not an opinion.

I'm doing a double feature of a few Dallas and a few Falcon Crest tonight.

On Dallas, Baby John Ross has been kidnapped but it's okay because Sue Ellen is indifferent to him anyhow. Also, he might be a Barnes and this is not particularly auspicious.

On Falcon Crest, Emma is on the lam (in some hilarious scenes on a bus) and Angela and Richard are fighting over shares in the newspaper for some reason. I think Angela wants control of the Globe? Never was I skilled at business storylines. I enjoy that handsome devil David Selby. I'd do anything Richard Channing told me to.

If you make friends with the Knots Landing social media and message board fandom, you may stumble upon access to Knots Landing streaming in high quality. I'm making it sound like the Ark of the Covenant, but that's how I got access some years ago. Luckily, I still have my 'sacred tapes' and two working VCRs. I was too young to watch these first-run, but I like my Knots Landing Thursdays and my Friday night Dallas and Falcon Crest.

Soap

You left the BEST ONE out of the survey. Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.

I loved Knots Landing. I remember being very sad when it went off the air when I was 23. I was 9 when it premiered. Knots Landing sparked my loathing of March Madness, because it wouldn't be on due to basketball, and the most upsetting part of my being arrested for shoplifting when I was 16 was that it caused me to miss Knots Landing that night.

Dynasty. For this.

[quote] That’s not an opinion.

Correct, R82 (et al.), it's lunacy.

Secrets of Midland Heights, NAS Emerald Point, and Paper Dolls!

The Catlins on Turner Broadcasting!

Hotel was not a soap.

Jane Wyman seemed to go from her afro wig to her Pearl Shay wig around S3. That was a wig, right?

I'm really addicted to Falcon Crest, enough to pay for it on Amazon.

Crazy Julia in prison: that's something you wouldn't get on Dallas or Knots.

This is my first time and I'm halfway through S3.