Why are small liberal arts colleges struggling?

It teaches those liberals about life.

These smaller colleges in order to be liberal and diverse need to offer a lot of financial aid to bring in folks from lower SES. Most the colleges don't have large endowments. Also they have to keep paying tenured professors basically until they drop dead.

I went to one for a while until I realized the name of the college matters in my industry. I applied for internships the last summer at my small liberal arts college before I transferred, and I got 1 mediocre offer. The next summer, I applied again using the exact same resume except for the addition of my new “name” schools, and I had at least 15 really good offers, and the one I took paved the road to a successful career in a difficult industry. The name matters.

This.

I would imagine because people have caught on that a liberal arts degree doesn’t pay shit.

Part of it is that the demographic has shifted and there are just less college students in general. Also, some LA schools are located in rural or perceived as less desirable locations. Smaller schools tend to have less major academic program offerings. Smaller student bodies seem to be less popular these days. Finally, there is such propaganda about stem courses that students and parents seem to not understand the value in a liberal education. Politically 1/2 of the nation is rabidly anti-intellectual, and deeply suspicious of “book learning.”

[quote] just less college students in general

Even fewer English majors.

r3 curious which schools you are talking about if you care to share.

Some Liberal arts colleges have added STEM courses in recent years as well as Business majors.

Mills College in Oakland is a classic example of how small liberal arts colleges die off.

Did anyone here go to Antioch?

Being in Oakland didn't help Mills much either I'm guessing.

Mills was beautiful , I have been there. It is in the nice section of Oakland.

[quote] Some Liberal arts colleges have added STEM courses in recent years as well as Business majors.

True liberal arts colleges (not art colleges) typically have majors in economics, mathematics, biology, physics, and chemistry, which are all STEM majors.

You are correct if you meant "some liberal arts colleges have added [italic]more[/italic] STEM courses." But then you should have said that.

Some are indeed struggling; but many are not. Most of the famous ones, including Amherst, Williams, Wellesley, Haverford, Swarthmore, Smith, Grinnell, Carleton, Vassar, Reed, Pomona, Claremont McKenna, etc. all have large endowments and are doing fine.

The only famous one I know that's in financial trouble right now I can think of is Oberlin.

OK r14. I see your point. That's what I meant.

My liberal arts college always had those things you mentioned first but I've noticed that they've added Computer Science, Business with concentrations in marketing and finance and even engineering in partnership with another school.

Plus they've added the ever popular "communications."

I'm an literature student. Yes, "am". I suppose the explanation being that a liberal arts degree barely survives in capitalism.

Most of my peers are the elite and the upper middle class who, they noted and I quoted, "learn for the sake of learning". They don't count on a degree to make ends meet, simply because they're not obliged to.

^It's supposed to be an "English" literature student. Sorry.

R17/R18, what are your grades, dear, or do they not give them at your college?

R17 What courses did you take?

Can you take online classes?

I think during the pandemic, they all have to R21

Private schools are twice the price of state schools. Which are also cost prohibitive. Fewer people want to spend $100,000 to attend them and end up buried in student loan debt. The cost of a college education continues to get higher and higher. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Most students need some form of financial aid. Student loan debt is a crisis and Congress and Biden (despite running on debt forgiveness) are ignoring it.

Why aren’t students eager to go into $100,000 worth of debt to attend a tiny private school, should be self explanatory.

R15: Oberlin is hardly in dire shape. They have a huge endowment. Reed and others have had big deficits, too. This is the "Oberlin is dying" troll.

Small liberal arts colleges always have had financial problems. Most of them are regional in scope and many rely on their connections to mainline Protestant denominations to drum up students. Most have rather small endowments. Single sex schools, in particular, have been struggling for decades--for every Smith that's in good shape, you have Sweet Briar (emerging from near death) or Mills (dead as a mackerel). The finishing school type women's college like Stephens have had to adapt--majors in equestrian studies don't support a healthy college. Historically Black liberal arts schools have always struggled.

Some schools have survived by adding cash cow programs like MBA programs or tried to attract community college grads which exposes them to recognition that they've never been selective enough to justify their cost.

Many of the smaller schools have been struggling for decades and one more sizable recession will wipe out more of them.

Done right, a liberal arts education is expensive - you need great faculty who are scholars and great teachers, and you need small classes so that deep and intense discussions can take place. Also, if it's done right, a degree from a liberal arts college means the degree holder is well-educated and well-rounded. This is exactly the type of person good companies used to seek out.

The problem is that many so-called liberal arts colleges are not doing it right. They are staffing their classes with "warm bodies" - not people who are great teachers and scholars. And many have squandered their endowments on bloated administrations, and rec. centers with lazy rivers and climbing walls, instead of financial aid. Those are the colleges that are failing.

What's a lazy river?

R26, it is a water recreational device where you are given an inner-tube or other type of floatation device, and placed in simulated river.

Reed, Oberlin, Smith, Boston U, Tufts, and a number of other schools are "need-aware," meaning they meet financial need for most students but consider ability to pay when making tough decisions between two similarly qualified students or students on a waitlist. Some students simply get rejected, while others are admitted but receive a financial aid award so small that they have no choice but to pick another school.

For most Americans, the purpose of going to college is to get a high-paying job after college. A degree (STEM, preferably) from a brand name school with nationwide recognition is understood to be the best way to realize a big income.

[quote] the purpose of going to college is to get a high-paying job after college

And yet, that system broke down 15 years ago. Why do they still do it?

[quote] For most Americans, the purpose of going to college is to get a high-paying job after college.

Yes. Here in America we all co-operate for the enrichment of our society, and out country.

If you Europeans had learned that years ago, you would have caught up with us.

^^^

Sorry, I'm fucking a European.

European, no need to be sorry.

Just learn to embrace mankind's freedom.

It is so hard when the most freest people seem to be the stupidist people.

What am I missing?

I have two nephews, both in their early 30's. One graduated from a liberal arts school (art history major) and now works as a program manager (??) at a non-profit making $45,000/yr. My other nephew was never great in school - he knew it as did his parents - and instead of college went to a trade school to become an electrician and now makes $95,000/yr before overtime.

I have heard that there are unscrupulous people working for Liberal arts colleges who run them into the ground and drain them dry.

R26, then watr cleanes toiyr anys

please post in English r37

R35 why are you postiung evidence?

A lot of businesses do hire LA students and actually prefer them for problem solving abilities. To do really well with a LA degree you need to hustle in the job market or pursue a terminal degree. This current generation, however, that has seen the rise of entitlement and incels is not likely to work the angles to get a suitable job. They just give up. Plus a lot expect to get out of college, get a decent job, buy an S-Class Mercedes or a Range Rover and a luxury apartment. That does not happen much in this economy anymore-that young earners are making tremendous amounts of money.

Education, for instance, is still a viable field, but it’s not like you will get rich. But you can make a comfortable living with decent benefits, and a pension usually. It’s still a path to the middle-class or upper middle class for many. Government jobs, particularly federal, are also a good route to a decent living.

Which liberal arts colleges are still good and worthwhile?

Actually you can get rich in education r40. My old high school publishes the salaries of the teachers online. I was looking at two of mine who are married and each make 80k a year. (lots of seniority.) That's quite a good salary for where they live. You can buy huge brand new houses for about 250k. I think those two teachers will probably retire very well off.

Yeah r42 it really depends on circumstances. In the Northeast, it is quite a bit easier to do well via many small school districts and teachers that are from the community they teach in. This is less applicable to the South for instance where large county controlled school districts dominate. Context is key as well. Some folks were lucky enough to start in newer suburban districts that have now become wealthy communities. Thus the pretty cheap house they bought in 1980 may make them rich in retirement. It also helps to have two professional salaries. Two teachers for instance, or even one teacher and one white collar private sector can do quite well.

The other key is cutting living expenses upon retirement by moving to a lower cost area. Some folks move abroad and it is something I have considered since the prospect of a real Fascist takeover here continues.

[quote][R15]: Oberlin is hardly in dire shape. They have a huge endowment. Reed and others have had big deficits, too. This is the "Oberlin is dying" troll.

I've never posted anything even [italic]close[/italic] to "Oberlin is dying" before.

You are accusing me of being someone else with absolutely no justification nor proof whatsoever.

I don't know of any liberal arts colleges with "lazy rivers." As far as I knew, they were all features at large research universities like Mizzou.

[quote] I have two nephews, both in their early 30's. One graduated from a liberal arts school (art history major) and now works as a program manager (??) at a non-profit making $45,000/yr. My other nephew was never great in school - he knew it as did his parents - and instead of college went to a trade school to become an electrician and now makes $95,000/yr before overtime.

How much money you make is all that matters.

That's the only purpose in life.

Another issue is lack of international students. Many universities now are dependent on Chinese and to a lesser extent Indian students. They pay full tuition and as such are cash cows. However they go for big schools that have strong programs in STEM or for the dumb ones, business. Liberal Arts Schools, unless in the top 50, just can’t compete.

r43 yes the teachers I'm talking about are in the northeast

Teachers have always complained about their salaries, because they're pretty awful in the beginning and they experience pressure to get a masters (a requirement for tenure in many places) which costs money, but the ones who stick it out make a good living. They have summers off and many of them pick up another job then. Long timers who want out of the classroom can become principals other kinds of administrators. Teachers usually still have pensions. They used to be excluded from social security, so they would pay into annuities like TIAA or Educators and Executives which branched into 401k-type plans.