Sondheim’s quintessential lyric?

You gotta have a gimmick if you want to get ahead.

It's not so much do what you like as it is that you like what you do.

Nice is different than good.

City on fire!

You have to move on.

Anything you do, let it come from you, then it will be new. Give us more to see.

Maybe you could show me how to let go, / Lower my guard, / Learn to be free. / Maybe if you whistle, / Whistle for me.

It’s not so much do what you like as it is like what you do.

But with the Schlitz in her mitts down at Fitzroy's Bar

She thinks of the Ritz so it's so schizo

Don't you love farce?

My thought I fear.

I thought that you'd want what I want.

Sorry, my dear.

But where are the clowns?

So many wrong words in these quotes, including mine.

I think we’re all stoned this morning.

I know how I want you to say goodbye

I chose and my world was shaken, so what?

The choice may have been mistaken, the choosing was not.

You have to move on.

Someone is on your side Someone else is not While you’re seeing your side Maybe you forgot They are not alone No one is alone

"And one for Mahler!"

"We have so much in common, it's a phenomenon."

Such a lovely, dreamy kind of lyric.

stuffed the dailies in my shoes

Every day a little death.

Anything can happen in the woods.

Those smug little men with their smug little schemes

They forgot one thing:

The play isn't over by a long shot yet!

There are heroes in the world,

Princes are heroes in the world,

And one of them will save us.

Wait and see!

Wait and see!

I feel pretty

RIFF Womb to tomb!

TONY Sperm to worm!

Sticks and stones may break my bones

But chains and whips excite me

Wait, do you mean lyrics BY Sondheim, or ABOUT him?

There — can you read?

Good! We will need

Two ports

One of them not to rocky

How about Nagasaki?

Two ports

One of them for the cocoa

What do you call it? — Yoko

Hama! Ja!

Und Nagasaki! Ja!

Sign here!

Once, yes, once for a lark

Twice, though, loses the spark

As I said to the abbot

I'll get in the habit

But not in the habit

You've my highest regard

And I know that it's hard

Still, no matter the vice

I'd never do anything twice

r12

oh dear

It's a city of strangers

Some come to work, some to play

A city of strangers

Some come to stare, some to stay

And every day

The ones who stay

Can find each other in the crowded streets and the guarded parks

By the rusty fountains and the dusty trees with the battered barks

And they walk together past the postered walls with the crude remarks

And they meet at parties through the friends-of-friends, who they never know

"Will you pick me up, or do I meet you there, or shall we let it go?

Did you get my message? 'Cause I looked in vain

Can we see each other Tuesday if it doesn't rain?

Look, I'll call you in the morning, or my service'll explain."

And another hundred people just got off of the train

It's the fragment, not the day It's the pebble, not the stream It's the ripple, not the sea That is happening Not the building but the beam Not the garden but the stone Only cups of tea And history And someone in a tree

Loud, or lewd, or la-de-da-de:

Ev'rything to ev'rybody!

I'm yawning as I read.

Oh, Jerry at R30, we all know YOUR quintessential lyric:

“So I put my hand in here

I put my hand in there”

I don't know how I let you

So far inside my mind

But there you are and there you will stay

[quote] Oh, Jerry at [R30], we all know YOUR quintessential lyric:

"With you it looks good,

With you it looks great,

With you it looks grand!"

"What's the muddle in thee middle?

That's the puddle where the poodle did the piddle."

Too clever by half and takes me right out of the show every time.

R31: Life is a celebration with you on my arm!

Al-a-mo Remember the Al-a-mo-oh....

A false alarm

A broken arm

An imitation Hitler

And with littler

Charm

But oh, can that boy f... oxtrot!

Loving you is not a choice

And not much reason to rejoice!

I'm not well, so I'm not getting married (today).

I sort of hate to ask it

But do you have a basket?

Someone to need you too much

Someone to read you too well

Someone to bleed you of all the things you don’t want to tell

That’s happily ever after

Ever, ever after

In hell

It isn't only Paul who would be ruining his life

You know, we'll both of us be losing our identities

I telephoned my analyst about it, and he said to see him Monday

But by Monday I'll be floating in the Hudson with the other garbage.

You're sorry-grateful

Regretful-happy

Why look for answers

Where none occur?

You always are

What you always were

Which has nothing to do with

All to do with her

I always liked “ Crazy business this, this life we live in-” and “I, too, have a cornu-Copia of imperfections.”

He really is a master lyricist.

Fat whores rejoice!

Sounds more like Oscar Hammerstein to me, R46.

Have a little priest

Sometimes she drinks in bed

Sometimes he’s homosexual

But why be vicious?

They keep it out of sight

Good show!

They’re gonna be alright…

Don't say that one around Catholic boys, R48!

Going a bit further...

Crazy business this, this life we live in.

Can't complain about the time we're given.

With so little to be sure of in this world.

Look perhaps I'll collapse

in the apse, right before you all

so take back your cake,

burn the shoes and boil the rice!

So life is ducky

And time goes flying

And I'm so lucky

I feel like crying,..

Every day a little death

In the parlor, in the bed

In the curtains, in the silver

In the butter, in the bread

Every day a little sting

In the heart and in the head

Every move and every breath

And you hardly feel a thing

Brings a perfect little death

But though I'll do my utmost To see you never frown, And though I'll try to cut most Of our expenses down. I've some traits, I warn you, To which you'll have objections. I, too, have a cornu- Copia of imperfections.

Make that:

But though I'll do my utmost

To see you never frown,

And though I'll try to cut most

Of our expenses down.

I've some traits, I warn you,

To which you'll have objections.

I, too, have a cornu-

Copia of imperfections.

Why, when I speak, does he vanish?

Why is he acting so clannish?

I wish I understood Spanish

When I tell him I think he's the end

He giggles a lot with his friend

What would we do without you? Just what we usually do! Huff, huff, huff……

The theme song of the misogynist eldergays of DL: "There's Always A Woman"

Cherchez la femme.

There's always a woman

To spoil the illusion,

The rotten banana

That ruins the bunch.

There's always a woman

Who causes confusion.

There's nothing as low as a woman.

We must lunch.

The kind of love that she couldn't make fun of

She'd have none of.

Why are his trousers vermilion?

Why does he claim he's Castilian?

Why do his friends call him Lillian?

Sometimes when the wrappings fall

There's nothing underneath at all.

(Fredrik)

She loves my voice, my walk, my mustache The cigar, in fact, that I'm smoking She'll watch me puff until it's just ash Then she'll save the cigar butt

(Desiree)

Bizarre, but You're joking

In the middle of the world we float

In the middle of the sea

The realities remain remote

In the middle of the sea

"You must meet my wife."

"Let me get my hat and my knife!"

God he’s a genius.

Listen to the stories Hear it in the songs Angry men don’t write the rules And guns don’t right the wrongs

Hurts a while But soon the country’s Back where it belongs And that’s the truth

Still and all Damn you, Booth

I wish

Damn you, Lincoln, you righteous whore!

Pretty isn't beautiful, Mother

Pretty is what changes

What the eye arranges

Is what is beautiful

And take extra care with strangers

Even flowers have their dangers

And though scary is exciting

Nice is different than good

Not quoting:

How do so many of us know all these wonderful words?

We must be as special as we assume.

[quote]How do so many of us know all these wonderful words?

You never heard of Google? Or you just cannot think for yourself?

And I'll try to make it easier to find me

In the stillness of July

Because of breeze might stir a rainbow up behind me

That might happen to catch a gentleman's eye

"Safe words are for wimps."

Um, r74, you know that that's Jerry Herman, right? Try quoting on of Jerry's fisting songs.

Children will listen

children may not obey but children will listen

Yes I wanted to show an example of a beautiful lyric that appears effortless and which does not trumpet the sweating over every word.

"Shepherd's pie peppered

With actual shepherd

On top"

owns this thread.

Some people got it and make it pay

Some people can’t even give it away

"Something appealing, something appalling" et al. from "Comedy Tonight" was so early in his career—and has proved amazingly durable and smart.

Some people sit on their butts

Got the dream, yeah, but not the guts.

He was brilliant to put those otherwise vulgar words into the mouth of Ethel Merman to belt to the rafters. You get the entire character, her drive and her great limitations, in those two lines.

yes r83 he is better than almost anyone else at making the vernacular and diction character-appropriate. ([italic]That was not a cue for anyone to debate the Maria "I Feel Pretty" rhymes are too smart for the character story; we've heard it. Thanks anyway though.[/italic])

This is how Samson was shorn;

Each in her style a

Delilah

Reborn

Perpetual sunset is rather an unsettling thing.

Some of us can quote just about every lyric Steve ever wrote. We are lifelong fans who have listened to every cast album so many times we've actually worn out CDs. Sondheim's music is emotionally satisfying. He speaks in ways and of things with which we can identify: love and all of its problems; ambivalence about life; loneliness and relationships; life and death... If you've ever had a broken heart, listen to "Not A Day Goes By" or "Good Thing Going" and you'll hear your experience in a cathartic way.

And to keep this on-topic:

Could I bury my rage

With a boy half your age

In the grass?

Bet your ass!

But I've done that already

Or didn't you know, love?

Tell me, how could I leave

When I left long ago, love?

I need Steve to rewrite all his lyrics for my "Back to Broadway For The Last Time, I Promise" album.

The hands on the clock turn but don't sing a nocturne just yet.

You said you loved me. Or, were you just being kind?

r87 they also manage to be satisfyingly clever and smart, [italic]usually[/italic] succeeding in tickling your brain without drawing undue attention to themselves. They insist on your attention and engagement without demanding them.

A love as pure as breath

As permanent as death

Implacable as stone

A love that like a knife

Has cut into a life I wanted left alone

A love I may regret

But one I can't forget

Let the moment go

Don't forget it for a moment, though

Just remembering you've had an "And"

When you're back to "or"

Makes me the "or" mean more than it did before.

Why did you do it boy? Not just destroy the pride and joy of Illinois, but all the USA

"I got through all of last year...

And I'm here"

There's something that always makes me well up a bit when I hear that line performed well. Haven't we all looked back on what's happened to us in our lives and thought "how the fuck did we make it through that?" and then smile with pride that we did and that we're still here?

"Where's my prize? I deserve a fucking prize!"

If that doesn't sum up a majority of American psychos, Instahos, and reality stars, I don't know what does.

Faced with these Loreleis

What man can moralize?

When you're in a tizzy, dizzy wiz ze mutual detante!

Sondheim has publicly denigrated Larry Hart but Hart was not only his peer but perhaps his better.

Hart's lyrics were witty but sincere. Steve is "look how clever I am."

Sondheim will never write a lyric as clever and magical as this gem:

I wanna be a part of B A, Buenos Aires, Big Apple.

[quote] "I got through all of last year...And I'm here". There's something that always makes me well

Same, r95. That line always gets me as well.

That's the sound of an audience losing its mind

Its the pope on his balcony blessing mankind

Folks, it's Funny Girl, Fiddler and Dolly combined

If the tea the shogun drank

Will serve to keep the shogun tranq-

quil

R104 His friendship with Tom Lehrer paying off there

Oh the flies on your pussy tell me how bad it stinks

To find a rhyme for silver

Or any “rhymeless” rhyme

Requires only will, ver-

Bosity and time.

– Stephen Sondheim

(From a letter to the editor of Time magazine, May 24, 1971.)

While her withers wither with her

Shake it, shake it, shake it.

Until you break it, break it, break it

But how can you know what you want til you get what you want and you see if you like it

Oh, Sweeney!

Fuck me with your weenie!

Just remembering you've had an "and"

When you're back to "or"

Makes the "or" mean more

Than it did before.

Now I understand...

And it's time to leave the woods!

I'm ready to ask my mom,

"Can I got to the junior prom?"

Sheldon's got the Chevy!

Why bother r113?

But that was many years ago.... I doubt that anyone would know.

A great, great thread.

It shows that Stephen Sondheim may be the most important gay artist of the 20th century. That we all respond so emotionally to so many different and varied lyrics, all by the same man. Spanning decades.

He's just monumentally important, aside from being the last of a dying breed.

No fits, no fights, no feuds and no egos. Amigos. Together!

Let the moment go

Don't forget it for a moment, though

Just remembering you've had an "and"

When you're back to "or"

Makes the "or" mean more

Than it did before

Now I understand

And it's time to leave the woods

There's a part of you always standing by Mapping out the sky, finishing a hat Starting on a hat, finishing a hat Look, I made a hat Where there never was a hat,

If I was a sculptor...but then again, no.

It's your father's fault that the curse got placed

And the place got cursed in the first place!

And though I'll think of you, I guess

Until the day I die

I think I miss you less and less

As every day goes by

Year after year, older and older

Side by side

Each day I see her pass

In my looking-glass

Lord, Lord, Lord, that woman is me!

[FROGS]

Brek-kek-kek-kek!

Brek-kek-kek-kek!

I really hate to ask it But what's a rhyme for basket?

Clamor for my drama!

Sooner or later you’re gonna be mine…

You're so [italic]nice[/italic] You're not good You're not bad You're just [italic]nice[/italic]

Just remember:

Someone is on your side,

Someone else is not.

While we're seeing our side

Maybe we forgot:

They are not alone.

No one is alone.

All the wondering what even worse is still in store

Goliath.

I've some business with her mother.

See, it's business.

Oh, no doubt! But the business with her mother Would be hardly the business I'd worry about.

Most important artist, period, r116

He needs me George, I mean he kneads me

A maid! A maid? A maid? A maid!!!

So which show is being cited here the most? [italic]Woods[/italic]?

Skittering down the hallway

Flittering through the parlor

Tittering in the pantry

Littering up the bedroom

"We lose things

And then we choose things

And there are Louis

And there are Georges

Well...

Louis...

And George"

I always found that moment so poignant. It really captures that rebound relationship right after a really passionate affair breaks up. No one can compare. Sondheim is so great about capturing the human experience.

I am going to the Lordy I am so glad

Love is a lecture on how to correct yer mistakes

It's intolerable being tolerated.

Whatcha thinking? Barcelona. Oh …. Flight Eighteen.

This stuff is all really mind-boggling.

If you want to bump it, bump it with a trumpet.

Here's to us.

Who's like us?

Damn few.

That's actually Sondheim quoting Scottish poet Robert Burns, R146.

...which is a toast that he and his Williams friends used--and that's why he used it in Merrily.

Long as you ignore you’re the only thing that matters feeling!

I meant - long as you ignore me you’re the only thing that matters feeling!

[quote]I meant - long as you ignore me you’re the only thing that matters feeling!

We knew. We all knew. Every single one of us knew.

It's just that sort of thread.

"Where are we to go? Where are we ever to go?"

"And you think of all of the things you've seen, and you wish that you could live in between."

"It justifies...the beans!"

I’m someone to be loved. And that I learned from you.

"You'll never get away from me." Love song, or threat?

r156

both

Yup, that's the genius of it. [italic](That was kinda my point, but whatever.)[/italic]

But Herbie gets away. It's Louise who doesn't.

How can you slip and trip into a hipbath?

Oh, no you don’t. No, not a chance. No arguments, shut up and dance.

Depending on the actress playing Rose and her ability to portray warmth, "You'll Never Get Away From Me" can indeed be played as more threat than cute love song.

My Dears...

I got through Shirley Temple.

I hate that line, r164!

I got through Brenda Frazier!

Sorry, r165, we posted at the same time.

Danced in my shanties ...

scanties.

I got through Barbara Walters.....LINE!!!!

Pantaloons and tunics!

Courtesans and eunuchs!

Funerals and chases!

Baritones and basses!

Panderers!

Philanderers!

Cupidity!

Timidity!

Mistakes!

Fakes!

Rhymes!

Crimes!

Tumblers!

Grumblers!

Bumblers!

Fumblers!

"Had heebie-jeebies for Beebe's bathysphere."

Even Sondheim can't nail them all.

Sondheim really knew how to capture the culture around him. If I were to describe NYC in the 1970s, this would be part of it.

It's a city of strangers, Some come to work, some to play

A city of strangers, Some come to stare, some to stay

And every day, The ones who stay

Can find each other in the crowded streets and the guarded parks

By the rusty fountains and the dusty trees with the battered barks

And they walk together past the postered walls with the crude remarks

And they meet at parties through the friends-of-friends, who they never know

"Will you pick me up, or do I meet you there, or shall we let it go?

Did you get my message? 'Cause I looked in vain

Can we see each other Tuesday if it doesn't rain?

Look, I'll call you in the morning, or my service'll explain."

And another hundred people just got off of the train

What R27 said...

The maudlin sentimentality of the big "Into the Woods" ballads is cringeworthy to me. I already knew how popular they were, but sheesh!

I love that someone has sneaked in a Bernie Taupin lyric, he's also a genius!

I’m Lovely! All I am is Lovely. Lovely is the one thing I can do!

These helmets weigh alot on us

Bump it like a strumpet!

In view of her penchant for something romantic/DeSade is too trenchant and Dickens too frantic/And Stendhal would ruin the plan of attack/As there isn't much blue in The Red and the Black.

DeMaupassant's candor would cause her dismay/The Brontes are grander but not very gay/Her taste is much blander I'm sorry to say/But is Hans Christian Andersen ever risque?/Which eliminates A...

I hear a crane making street repairs

A two ton child running wild upstairs

Steam pipes bang, sirens clang,

And what more do I need?

Clothes don't make the man, God knows,

But I wouldn't be surprised if that man made those clothes.

A love as pure as breath

As permanent as death

Implacable as stone.

(That's Bobby grown up.)

In the depths of her interior

Were fears she was inferior,

And something even eerier...

But no one dared to query her

Superior exterior!

This year Japan will export 16 million kilograms monosodium glutamate and 400,000 tons of polyvinyl chloride resin.

Next!

BOTH: It could be so nice

If Momma got married to stay

LOUISE: But Momma gets married

JUNE:

And...

LOUISE:

Married

JUNE:

And...

LOUISE: Married

BOTH:

And never gets carried away

Oh, Momma...

Oh, Momma...

Oh, Momma...

Get married today!

Startin' now I

Bat a thousand

This time boys I'M takin' the bows and

EVERYTHING'S COMIN' UP ROSE

EVERYTHING'S COMIN' UP ROSES

EVERYTHING'S COMIN' UP ROSES

This time for ME

For me

FOR ME

FOR ME

FOR ME

FOR ME

FORRRR MEEEEEEEEEEE

Someone in another thread recently mentioned how tasteless it was when Ethel bared her breasts during Rose's Turn.

"How ya like THEM eggrolls, MISTER Goldstone?"

You should have seen what happened out of town before Ethel replaced Helen Lawson.

HOLD YOUR HATS AND HALLELUJAH MAMA'S GOING TO SHOW IT TO YA!

Didn't Patti LewdPony perform an actual striptease and do the full monty during Rose's Turn? Isn't that why she screamed at a member of the audience one night after he threw up and yelled "No one wants to see that pussy and those droopy dachshunds, PLuP!"?

R187 Mama like! Mama like!

"...as pure as breath"

Uhhhhh... I dunno, Steve. I don't know about that one.

All those photos up on the wall - with love filling the days, with love seventy ways.,,,,

OK, now, everybody.....

There's not a tune you can hum.

There's not a tune you go dum dum, dum dum, dum de dum,

You need a tune you can dum dum, dum dum, dum de dum,

Give me a melody!

Why can't you throw 'em a crumb?

What's wrong with letting 'em tap their toes a bit?

I'll let you know when Stravinsky has a hit.

Give me some melody!

Did you hear what you just said, Kiddo?

Alone and alive on a Saturday night is dead

Just when I'd stopped opening doors,

Finally knowing the one that I wanted was yours

Making my entrance again with my usual flair

Sure of my lines

No one is there

"While you're tied up, let me see you writhe"

[quote] "While you're tied up, let me see you writhe"

Your body is achingly lithe.

Not at all wrinkled or hairy

And then in walks Angela Lansbury

Or was it that bitch

Miss Elaine Stritch?

I'm now ninety-one

And my memory's done

hairy/Lansbury? You're not worthy r199

And "furry" was just within your grasp.

[quote] And "furry" was just within your grasp.

Her name is not pronounced “burree” it’s pronounced “berry”.

R202, only in the American pronunciation of her name, no? In Britain wouldn't her name be pronounced Lans-bree?

But in no land is it pronounced to rhyme with “hairy” Plus it would require a feminine rhyme, including the LANS since that’s where the accent falls

Every day a little death r199

I have a moo cow, a new cow a true cow named Caroline! Moo, moo, moo, moo …

Moo-ve Over!

Night descends and the moon's aglow

Your arms entwined

You steal below

And far behind

At the edge of day

The bong of the bell of the buoy in the bay

And the boy and the bride and the boat are away

r121 is one of my Top 10

It's not a quintissential lyric as such, but I always love how that song "Your Fault" is constructed, especially how throughout the song as they all accuse each other, you hear Little Red Riding Hood chirping: "So it's your fault!" until it's her turn: "So it's [italic]your[/italic] fault!" they say and she's like: "Wait a minute!"

R208 Thanks

Someone to hold you too close

Someone to hurt you too deep

Someone to sit in your chair

And ruin your sleep...

Someone to need you too much

Someone to know you too well

Someone to pull you up short

To put you through hell...

Someone you have to let in

Someone whose feelings you spare

Someone who, like it or not

Will want you to share

A little, a lot...

Someone to crowd you with love

Someone to force you to care

Someone to make you come through

Who'll always be there

As frightened as you

Of being alive

Being alive

Somebody hold me too close

Somebody hurt me too deep

Somebody sit in my chair

And ruin my sleep

And make me aware

Of being alive

Being alive

Somebody need me too much

Somebody know me too well

Somebody pull me up short

And put me through hell

And give me support

For being alive

Make me alive

Make me alive

Make me confused

Mock me with praise

Let me be used

Vary my days

But alone...

Is alone...

Not alive

Somebody crowd me with love

Somebody force me to care

Somebody let come through

I'll always be there

As frightened as you

To help us survive

Being alive

Being alive

Being alive!

you have too much time on your hands, 211

R112

But alone...

Is alone...

Not alive

(...and these are Sondheim's quintessential lyrics)

Unpack the luggage, la la la

Pack up the luggage, la la la

Unpack the luggage, la la la

Hi-ho, the glamorous life!

I've got the God-why-don't-you-love-me-oh-you-do-I'll-see-ya-later blues.

Bobby in Company and Buddy in Follies were all from the same period. What was Sondheim going through that he wrote men playing the 'withholding' dance of seduction so well?

"Being Alive" is the whiniest song ever written.

I hate Bobby and I hate his stupid song. Every woman in the show is too good for him. Every man, too. Bleccchhhhh.

[quote] Every woman in the show is too good for him. Every man, too. Bleccchhhhh.

I know what you mean r216 I've often felt that way, probably most with mopey, navel-gazing Papi Esparza and - surprising me - least with NPH who kept it lighter but not shallow. Barrowman in DC was OK. I'm too young to have seen Jones or Kert.

Being Alive is a cringey song

Ordinary mothers needn't meet committees,

But ordinary mothers don't get keys to cities.

No, ordinary mothers merely see their children all year -

Which is lovely, I hear,

But it does interfere

With the glamorous life.

Mais oui, we may

It's a very short road

From the pinch and the punch

To the paunch and the pouch

And the pension.

The truth of There's Another National Anthem was proved conclusively on January 6.

It's not 'quintessentially Sondheim' but it might be quintessentially America.

Looky, looky, here comes cookie now

Little cookie playing hooky, that we won’t allow

Don’t you love farts?

My fault, I fear…

Did you just crack yourself up r224?

I admit. R224 made me laugh.

We said, “Ok, no rumpus, no tricks.” But just in case they jump us, we’re ready to mix! Tonight!”

Well, since we have now quoted just about every lyric the man ever wrote, can we now just admit we have beaten this topic to death?

Oh, no, Anita! No!

It would be fresh if we addressed the topic instead of just repeating our favorite lyrics. The way I interpret the question is, What do we think is the lyric Sondheim should have on his gravestone? (Many, many years from now, Steve!)

Clearly there will be two sets of answers to this: those who offer the small section of lyric they really think is closest to revealing or summarizing him; and those who go for cheap laughs. Might as well hold back the tide as tell DL to be serious.

Okay, R230. I've known Steve for a lot of years. I think the perfect lyric for his memorial would be:

What's hard is simple

What's natural comes hard

Maybe you could show me

How to let go

Lower my guard

Learn to be free

Maybe if you whistle

Whistle for me

Yes! The first two lines alone, I think.

Put your lips together and blow

Pig

Every jot and tittle adds to the pot--

Soon you got the kit as well as the kaboodle!

I want to eat a priest.

Have some cat.

Was it named Joanne?

Don't you love farts?

My fault, I fear.

Yes, of course, I know.

Some things need to be repeated to release the pre-adolescent gatling's voice in one's head.

"Such a lovely, dreamy kind of lyric"

No, it's the music that's lovely and dreamy. All those chromatics.

"And though I'll think of you, I guess/Until the day I die/I think I miss you less and less/As every day goes by"

Then why should the audience care?

"Completely shattered by Saturday night"

Now that's an internal rhyme worth noting.

"When you're back to "or"/Makes the "or" mean more/Than it did before/Now I understand/And it's time to leave the woods"

At which point the audience is sleeping, too exhausted to keep track or care.

Yvonne DeCarlo: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: No you're not.

Ann Miller: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: No you're not.

Polly Bergen: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: No you're not.

Dorothy Loudon: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: No you're not.

Dolores Gray: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: No you're not.

Nancy Walker: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: No you're not.

Elaine Stritch: I'm still here!

Angela Lansbury: Oh no you're not.

Elaine Paige: I'm still here.

Angela Lansbury: Big fucking deal, Miss Bickerstaff.

'There's a lot that I missed but I sure wasn't dead when I died.'

So please, don't fart,

There's very little air and this is art.

Eventually we'll get to the catharsis then depart...

Green finch and linnet bird, Nightingale, blackbird, How is it you sing? How can you jubilate, Sitting in cages, Never taking wing?

There is no other way...

You know why I did it? Cause there isn’t any Santa Claus.

Clutching a copy of "Life", just to keep in touch.

I am listening to Lapine on Fresh Air. No one wants him, they just want to talk about Sondheim. Poor thing.

Reassure Henrik, Poor Henrik. Henrik, you'll endure Being pure, Henrik." Though I've been born, I've never been! How can I wait around for later? I'll be ninety on my deathbead And the late, or, rather, later, Henrik Egerman.

Doesn't anything begin?

So here's to the girls on the go-- Everybody tries. Look into their eyes, And you'll see what they know: Everybody dies. A toast to that invincible bunch, The dinosaurs surviving the crunch. Let's hear it for the ladies who lunch

Every day a little sting Every day a little dies In the heart and in the head. In the looks and in the lies. Every move and every breath, And you hardly feel a thing Brings a perfect little death.

And no, not a day goes by,

Not a blessed day

But you're still somehow part of my life

And you won't go away

So there's hell to pay,

And until I die,

I'll die day after day after day after day,

After day after day after day,

Till the days go by.

Artists are bizarre. Fixed. Cold.

I could understand a person if he actually was dead

I could understand a person, if a person was a fag.

Shit--I shot it!

How ridiculous. To be looking at her and be thinking of you.

Ruff.

The brother you prize keeps telling you lies you better goddamn well know how to goddamn — Oh goddamn you!

A spark to pierce the dark

From Battery Park

To Washington Heights

Putting thoughts of you aside in the south of France. Would I think of suicide? Darling, shall we dance?

I mean, big surprise, People love you and tell you lies.

My favorite Sondheim lyric is "And if you're under him, you ain't getting over him". Pure genius.

[quote]People love you and tell you lies.

I got the lyric the first time I heard it but I'm ashamed at how many years it took to get me to accept it.

^ Now i know.

Even Cream of Wheat has lumps

Oh, oh,

Think of her at the dustbin

'Specially when she's just been

Traipsing about

Oh, oh,

Wouldn't she be delightful

Living in,

Giving out

I love all the lyrics to "Everybody Ought to Have a Maid." Such delicious dirty old men high testosterone and making fools of themselves. Just wonderful.,

It must be the heat or some rare disease. Or too much to eat or maybe it’s fleas.

Men are stupid, men are vain, Love's disgusting, love's insane, A humiliating business.

Oh, how true!

Well played, R269. Well played.

Bump it with a trumpet.

Little known but true story:

Sondheim wrote the lyrics: "Chaka Khan, Chaka Khan, Let me love you, Chaka Khan"

r272 = thread-killer

People you annoy together, children you destroy together

Getting a divorce together (which I think doesn't mean doing it together but "getting it together" which makes it more fun

I don't need a lot

Only what I got

Plus a tube of greasepaint

And a follow-spot

I remember snow

Soft as feathers

Sharp as thumbtacks

Coming down like lint

And it made you squint

When the wind would blow

And ice like vinyl

On the streets

Cold as silver

White as sheets

Rain like strings

And changing things

Like leaves

I remember leaves

Green as spearmint

Crisp as paper

I remember trees

Bare as coat racks

Spread like broken umbrellas…

[APRIL] That's not to say...

That if I had my way...

Oh well, I guess, OK

[ROBERT] What?

[APRIL] I'll stay

[ROBERT] But...oh God!

"Well, maybe next year."

How [italic] DARE [/italic] the privileged white, heterosexual, cis-female Desiree Armfeldt sing "Isn't it [bold] queer[/bold]?"

That song is literal violence, especially for those of us with a fear of clowns.

^ Don't look up the original lyrics to You Could Drive a person Crazy, r280.

Just watched/listened to Bernadette Peters rendition of “You Are Not Alone” on YouTube. Sublime performance. Do yourself a favor and check it out…

Doe she cry?

Do you mean No One Is Alone?

Yes, r284, my mistake

total cheat and no damn fun if you quote an [italic]entire[/italic] song

Loving you is not a choice. It’s who I am.

Iny weeny teeny weeny Shriveled little short dick man

......with enormous talent

In a world where the princes are lawyers,

What can anyone expect

Except to recollect

Lia....

In the castle of the King of the Belgians

We would visit through a false chiffonier

Picture that. Imagine Hermione Gingold and some old coot 'visiting through a false chiffonier.' EEEEK!

Where did he get that idea??? Did he invent it entirely? Or, is it something he saw once? In literature? In a museum? Has he ever explained this in any book or interview?

It's a lyric that just makes you seriously wonder about its author.

The role was written before Gingold was cast, r291. She evidently stopped the auditions by letting her wig slip off her head to reveal her bare scalp at the end.

Gingold recorded this number four times that I know of: The OBCR, the London OCR, the film soundtrack (the number was cut from the film but the recording is on youtube) and the Sondheim tribute concert with the Scrabble cover.

By far the best is the London cast recording, which is so much more poignant and nuanced than the Broadway recording but I couldn't find it on youtube. So here is the OBCR.

I was going to post more lyrics from Liaisons but you can find them by searching google for "liaisons sondheim lyrics."

Meanwhile the divine opera diva Regina Reznick gave a very different but equally wonderful performance in the role at The New York City Opera in the early 1990s.

I can’t stand Sondheim trite lyrics.

When a person's personality is personable

He shouldn't oughta sit like a lump

It's harder than a matador coercin' a bull

To try to get you off of your rump

I could understand a person

If it's not a person's bag

I could understand a person

If a person was a fag

etc.

Spend sleepless nights to think about you

It's the final line of this verse: All afternoon doing every little chore / The thought of you stays bright / Sometimes I stand in the middle of the floor / Not going left - not going right / I dim the lights and think about you / Spend sleepless nights to think about you

I think Sondheim explains the depths of Sally's obsession with Ben in just seven words. She does not go to sleep so she can continue thinking about him.

I love that song (as sung by Dorothy Collins) and that one lyric always hits me hard.

I'll never understand how that dire director Scott Ellis made that intimate little chamber opera A Little Night Music work in that barn of of a theater but he did. My friends and I left elated and the PBS broadcast was nearly as good..

Ellis had a brilliant cast already in place when he took over, r299. You're right, he's usually awful.

who'd he take over for? What's that story?

R298, that's the part that hits me as well. Had a relationship like that with someone once and that song hits those emotions right on the head.

You said you loved me

Or were you just being kind

That's the lyric that tells us what a hot fucking mess Sally really is. NO, it's not kind to say to someone "I love you," when you do not love them. It's cruel and selfish and cowardly and poor fucked up Sally just doesn't get any of it.

No, Sally. Ben was not being kind to you. Ben doesn't care about you. You are just entirely fucked up.

"You said you loved me, or were you just being kind? Or am I losing my mind?"

Yes, Sally, you're just nuts and you're losing your mind. Get over it and just move along like the rest of us did.

Yes, Sally, you could have just put out your tail once for some hot Polish super and ended up in a decent rent controlled apartment in the West 40s or Chelsea. But instead you decided to move to Phoenix. PHOENIX!

Don't come crying to us now over your poor mistakes.

Look into their eyes, And you'll see what they know: Everybody dies.

Okay, R298 here with the clip of Dorothy Collins singing "Losing My Mind." Unlike later renditions, this performance is NOT overwrought... her Sally is not crazy, but she's troubled and by the end, after being defiant, i think she knows she has a problem.

I think the performance is from The Mike Douglas Show...

Not Mike Douglas.

David Frost..

r307 simplicity that should be required viewing for all everyone performing today. and ([italic]I know, Mary![/italic]) that ascending thing in the accompaniment that starts at @1:26 is fucking genius

R309, that was Tunick, not Sondheim, who put that ascending thing into the orchestration. How he dared.

Meanwhile it's well documented that it was Alexis Smith who went to the creatives and said "This number isn't for me, give it to Dorothy." I've always wondered how Dorothy and the authors reacted to that. Because Alexis was so right.

^ I didn't mean to imply that Smith was putting down Collins. She loved the song but thought Collins was much better suited for it than she was. She was right.

So you're saying Losing My Mind was originally written as Smith's 11 o'clock song?

Yes. Read Ted Chaplin's book. After rehearsing it she went to Prince, Sondheim and Bennett and said, this isn't my song, Dorothy should have it. And she was so right.

OMG not the Alexis-smith-had-them-give-Losing-My-Mind-to-Dorothy-Collins story.

Is the story not correct, r315?

And they never got that last Follies song quite right, did they? First Uptown/Downtown out of town, and then the barely rewritten version The Story of Lucy and Jessie in New York because Bennett complained he was just drawing a blank on staging Uptown/Downtown. And then that version for the London production 15 years later, I can't remember the name but it ended with "Sometimes when the wrappings fall/There's nothing underneath at all!" for Dianna Rigg to sing without really having to dance.

Kind of like Kern and Hammerstein never getting that last number of Showboat just right. Their first try, It's Getting Hotter in the North is my favorite, with that minor chord rippling through the orchestration.

And here's what Bennett finally came up with for Smith's 11 o'clock number, bless his heart.

Uptown/Downtown and Lucy and Jessie were both cheap ripoffs of The Saga of Jenny and Here's to Dr. Crippen. Way to go, Kurt.

Dorothy Collins was second runner up for both She Loves Me and Do I Hear a Waltz. She lost She Loves Me because Barbara Cook was better Box Office and she lost Do I Hear a Waltz because Elizabeth Allen was sleeping with old, decrepit Richard Rodgers. But weren't they all? That was usually how you got cast in a Rodgers show.

Yep, Rodgers first put Shirley Jones in the chorus of South Pacific and then in the chorus of Me and Juliet and kept telling her to just hang on, he had much bigger plans for her. Then the film of Oklahoma! came along....

And old Dick just kept fucking along, like Ol' Man River.

Dorothy Rodgers must have really loved being Mrs. Richard Rodgers to put up with what she did.

“I love ya, Darlene.I love ya. Boom. Squish”.

"Wishes come true, not free."

For the sweet innocent at R291, he read it in history. Practically every Royal palace, and many another grand home, has secret passageways and entry places for the King's/Duke's/etc lovers (or conversely, to hide the owner from invading forces). A false chiffonnier could well have been one of them - or Sondheim could have just enjoyed The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe in his youth.

I think it's Neuschwannstein that has an entire concealed walkway within the walls to allow servants to come from downstairs to upstairs, emerging through various well concealed points in the hallways so they could pick the one closest to the room that had rung for them.

[quote]he read it in history.

And you know that how?

Er, because he has an education? It's a really, really well-known fact.

We all know about passageways in elegant residences. Duh. The most exacting lyricist in the American theater makes no reference to passageways in the song. If he intended passageways, they would be there.

The question hinges on the word "visit," not the hallways that are wholly a contribution of R326. Some of you dull girls are giving the word a very benign and unimaginative interpretation, given that it was penned by Stephen Sondheim. He tells you that they would visit through a false chiffonier. I don't think this visit was a chat about politics or the weather. I think he's described a very high-toned late 19th century glory hole, or its rough equivalent.

And where did Sondheim get that idea? Has he discussed it?

I can't quite imagine Dolores Gray fucking Richard Rodgers. Maybe with a strap-on.

"She does not go to sleep so she can continue thinking about him."

Oh, please, it's so much simpler. She can't sleep because she can't stop thinking about him. Like anyone with a problem on their minds.

R317 The song is Ah! but Underneath

I know Gray occasionally sang Rodgers' music but when did she ever play in one of his shows?

He produced "Annie Get Your Gun" and when giving the rights to a UK producer, Rodgers insisted on casting the role.

Thanks, r332.

R331 It’s less poetic the way you put it

The lyric is "Sleepless nights TO think about you." That was very deliberate and Dorothy Collins plays that quite clearly in the David Frost clip.

And thank you, r334, you're entirely right. R&H produced AGYG and Rodgers always controlled the casting of his shows very carefully. Howard Keel was Frank in the London Annie, after understudying both Curly and Billy Bigelow on Broadway and while he was there he starred in a cheap black and white cop movie, which is how he got to play Frank in MGM's film version of Annie. He'd basically had a screen test in addition to Rodgers' recommendation.

It's the fragment, not the day

It's the pebble, not the stream

It's the ripple, not the sea

That is happening

Not the building but the beam

Not the garden but the stone

Only cups of tea

And history

And someone in a tree

Howard Keel famously went on for Curly one Saturday afternoon and for Billy on the same evening. The New York papers were all over it. It made him. He also took over the lead in the original London production of Oklahoma! to much acclaim. Elizabeth saw him as Curly and loved it and him.

R319 The Follies songs are all meant to be pastiches

[quote]Dorothy Rodgers must have really loved being Mrs. Richard Rodgers to put up with what she did.

Mary Rodgers once promised to tell all after all her contemporaries, especially Arthur Laurents, had died. But she didn't.

And then she died.

Mary Rodgers was a bitch.

Yep, Mary Rodgers worked with Arthur several times and it was well known she hated him,

She told a reporter she would tell all after he died.

He died.

She never said a word,

And then she died,

Cunt.

I love the song "Ah, but Underneath." If the follies numbers being performed at the end of act II are supposed to be the windows into each characters thinking/how they see themselves, it fits Phyllis perfectly.

She's a woman who worked to become the social doyenne that Ben needed to move up in the world. She studied hard, played her part, became miserable over the years (and was rewarded by being ignored by Ben) and always believed she really wasn't anything special... hence nothing underneath.

Of the four main characters, I've always liked Buddy and Phyllis, think they got shafted by Sally and Ben.

Yes, R337. He was very specific about his word choice in his book. "Spend sleepless nights *to think about you."

She's so obsessed that she refuses sleep in order to obsess over him.

Does anything about the title of this thread make you think we should be discussing Richard Rodgers affairs here?

r320 and r321 you started us on a slippery slope

Ok, let's talk about Hal Prince's affairs.

r348

who do I have to fuck to get out of here?

Let’s talk about the infamous sex dungeon

Oh, do you mean the infamous sex dungeon that no one on DL has ever seen? That one?

Doesn't exist.

No one worth talking about fucks the writer.

A great big house for mama.

If it were not for the thicket

A thicket's no trick, is it thick

It's the thickest

The quickest is pick it apart with a stick

Yes but even one prick, it's my thing about blood

Well it's sick

It's no sicker than your thing about dwarfs

Dwarves

Dwarfs

Dwarves are very upsetting

Not forgetting

The task's unachievable, mountains unscalable

If it's conceivable but unavailable

Ah

Agony, misery, woe not to know what you miss

While they lie there for years

And you cry on their biers

What unbearable bliss

Agony that can cut like a knife

Ah well, back to my wife

“Lyric” Greg. Not song.

[quote] “Lyric” Greg. Not song.

Talk to R211, who really did put the entire song.

I did not. What I put is a particularly clever section of a much longer song.

So fuck off.

R185 I love the quintuple rhyme that leads into that:

Mama, please take our advise

We aren’t the Lunts; I’m not Fanny Brice

Mama, I’ll buy you the rice

If only this once you wouldn’t think twice

It would be so nice

If Mama got married to stay…

I may play cards all night and come home at three.

Just leave a light on the porch for me!

Well, nobody's perfect!

R344, Mary Rodgers was asked to comment on Arthur Laurents and she said "Ask me when he's dead." Maybe she was never asked again.

I think she was asked by Jesse Green and replied "no comment."

Loved his song that was cut on the road in Follies - “Oy, my herpes is flaring up”.

Laugh is you must R361, but Yvonne De Carlo sold the shit out of that song in Boston.

True, R362 -but you know Yvonne, always going one step too far. One night she showed the audience and the song was immediately cut.

I thjink that incident happened when Helen Lawson was still in the part, r363.

Yvonne insisted on running the herpes lyrics, complete with gestures, backstage with Teddy Chapin.

Loving you is not a choice

And not much reason to rejoice

[quote] Of the four main characters, I've always liked Buddy and Phyllis, think they got shafted by Sally and Ben.

I like Phyllis too, R345. Buddy is too self-loathing and a bit mentally damaged himself, possibly due to never being accepted by Sally as anything other than the man she settled for temporarily until Ben came back for her.

I remember someone on DL writing a few years ago, during the London revival of Follies, that at the end of the show, we are left with the feeling that Phyllis is a true survivor who will be fine but the other three have all been left irreparably shattered in some way by the reunion. Didn't people use to say that Phyllis being the strongest character in that quartet was also partly why Alexis Smith may have won the Tony over Dorothy Collins?

I don't see how Ben is irreparably shattered. He leaves with his champion.

And Buddy has no doubt been through this shit before. I'm also not convinced Sally's idea of happiness has been riding on the reunion. She probably gets "bright ideas" all the time. She's probably a Tom Bianchi/Alan Bates.

Stop it this is not another thread to hijack with endless Follies discussion. LYRICS only

Everybody says don't...

But everybody is not enough...

You're all liars and thieves Like his father! Like his son will be too! Oh, why bother? You'll just do what you do!

ANNE: A weekend in the country--

PETRA: We're invited?

ANNE: What a horrible plot! A weekend in the country--

PETRA: I'm excited!

ANNE: No, you're not.

PETRA: A weekend in the country, just imagine--

ANNE: It's completely depraved.

PETRA: A weekend in the country!

ANNE: It's insulting.

PETRA: It's engraved.

Me eyelids'll flutter

I'll turn into butter

The moment I mutter, "I do"

Look, ma'am, an invitation,

Here, ma'am, delivered by hand.

And, ma'am, I notice the station-

Ary's engraved and very grand.

Petra, how too exciting!

Just when I need it!

Petra, such elegant writing,

So chic you hardly can read it!

What do you think?

Who can it be?

Even the ink—

No, here, let me...

"Your presence"—just think of it, Petra!

"Is kindly"—it's at a chateau!

"Requested"—etcet'ra, etcet'ra,

"Madame Leonora Armf—" Oh, no!

again, way too long r376

What do you think? Who can it be? Even the ink— No, here, let me...

would sufficient

Thank you for that correction, R377.

What on earth would the Datalounge community do without you? Seriously. What would we do?

Everyone, we owe R377 a debt of gratitude. I now have learned the error of my ways and will be more careful to abide by your good guidance, R377.

Been called a pinko commie tool,

Got through it stinko, by my pool

Perhaps we should first have had a thread on the meaning of the word "quintessential".

For r378

I'm calm

I'm calm

I'm perfectly calm

I'm utterly under control

A toast to that invincible bunch, The dinosaurs surviving the crunch. Let's hear it for the ladies who lunch. Everybody rise!

"Sometimes she drinks in bed;

Sometimes he's homosexual"

IIRC, Rodgers wouldn't allow the homosexual lyric in the show. But wasn't the song recorded for the Scrabble album with the line intact?

Was it on the Scrabble album? I know it was part of the Side by Side by..... album with the line intact.

Yes, it's on the "Scrabble" album (Sondheim: A Musical Tribute) -with the homosexual lyric. It's sung by Laurence Guittard and Teri Ralston (from the original cast of A Little Night Music).

Yes, it’s on the Scrabble album, sung by Guittard.

The Sondheim lyrics that really got me:

Love without reason, love without mercy,

Love without pride or shame,

Love unconcerned with being returned,

No wisdom, no caution,

No judgment, no blame.

———-

Not pretty, or safe, or easy,

But more than I ever knew,

Love within reason, that isn’t love,

And I learned that from you.

He gets that breathless yearning in so few words, all spilling over each other.

He knows.

Probably not, R387. He doesn't know. And that's the biggest problem with Sondheim.

In the lyric you quote, he's describing obsession. Not love. He gets them all mixed up. When Sally sings, "I love you so, it's like I'm losing my mind," what has happened is that she has already lost her mind and she's obsessed with Ben Stone. It ain't love.

He makes the same basic mistake, though in different ways, with PASSION. The title being trimmed down from the Italian, "Pasione d'Amore." He ended up not writing much about love or passion, but a lot about obsession misunderstood to be love.

How is that a mistake? The characters don't have to be "right" about love. No one who watches Follies thinks that what's passed between Sally and Ben is love. They both love the ideal of love. But both act like they are the centre of the universe. There's no room for love when you're self obsessed.

I'm not sure how anyone could walk away from Follies or Passion with the idea that Sally or Fosca's idea of love is healthy. Hell, it's this obsession that's been eating away at them all evening.

Fine, r390, but what's your point? Do you suppose Sondheim didn't know what he was writing?

[quote]He gets that breathless yearning in so few words, all spilling over each other. He knows.

I thought I was responding very directly to that statement, but perhaps I was not clear enough. And that's fair.

I don't equate obsession with "breathless yearning" which sounds to me more like romantic love than obsession. If the person posting that statement here is relating any of those lyrics Giorgio sings to love, that might be re-examined.

Artists are free to pursue what interests them. As they should be. But it's hard to find Sondheim dealing much with love. Obsession. Neurosis, maybe. Neediness. Love is missing in most of Sondheim. If the characters use the word "love" that's a red flag that it isn't going to be about love at all.

why do some people seem so committed to driving threads into the shitter?

Yes, I know. Goodbye for now.

I'm with you R393. I wish there was a way for the squabbling that went on between R385 - R392 to be shunted off the the side of the larger thread. Some of this has been fun, but then, oy and vey, the Bickersons arrive and all of the air gets sucked out of the thread.

I'm r385. What squabbling?

See, it's your fault. No! So it's you fault... No! Yes, it is! It's not! It's true.

R387's lyrics are not sung by Fosca, they are sung by Georgio. He has come to realize that the "love" he had Clara was not real love. So R388 suggesting that Sondheim was mistaking obsession for love makes no sense. Georgio never obsesses over Fosca - just the reverse.

Phyllis loves Ben.

Phyllis loves the ten elderly men from the UN

How the kind of woman willing to wait's Not the kind that you want to find waiting

thank you r400 for getting us back on track with a great - and truly quintessential piece of Sondheim craft.

And all you have to do is move your little finger, move your little finger and you can change the world.

[quote] And all you have to do is move your little finger

I really appreciate Sondheim not being lazy. Each time this section comes back around he changes the verb.

Move your little finger

Squeeze your little finger

Crook your little finger

Sunday in the Park is a mature exploration of two people who really are in love but can't make the human level work at the same time as George's obsession with his art. Dot saves herself because she's an adult, but she doesn't love him any less. R400's quote is the quintessential lyric of that love story.

Happiness, the song that opens Passion, is a simply beautiful song about the early stages of "an ordinary love story" (made more beautiful by Marin Mazzie's gorgeous voice).

Sondheim is quintessentially an overthinker. My guess is the love song he's written that is closest to him (other than Finishing the Hat) is the unused Water Under the Bridge. It would be hell to be in love with the voice of that song.

And my guess would be "With So Little To Be Sure Of."

Debbie's is the only good version that I've heard.

I chose, and my world was shaken so what? The choice may have been mistaken the choosing was not

I know this is a lyric thread but I just realized that for all his genius and all his longevity, we never hear a bad word about the man himself. No tantrums, no fights, no feuds, etc. [[italic]added that so there'd be a lyric[/italic]]

He told Patti LuPone she wasn't a star.

He has ego aplenty (perhaps deservedly), but he doesn't engage in tantrums and fights. He just doesn't suffer fools -gladly or otherwise.

Yes. You always notice how, at least in public, he never tries to diss an actor, other composer, or lousy production? You never hear him going on about which production or actor was his favorite.

He was credited with pushing for ImeldaGYPSY.

I'm sure he has plenty of ego, but he keeps it in check--at least in public. He's invariably generous in his praise of colleagues and collaborators--at least in public.

A shame about Imelda, but nobody's perfect.

Well, now that she didn't come to New York in the role, I'd put money that the next Rose on Broadway will be Sutton Foster.

I'm always struck, when I watch YouTubes of Sondheim's Tony wins, that he pretty much only thanks Gemignani, his musical director/conductor, and Tunick, his orchestrator. Very generous and classy, in my opinion.

no r414. Peppermint. Gypsy. You gotta get a gimmick.

I do seem to recall him saying Imelda sang "Everything's Coming Up Roses" like you've never heard it before.

He was right. She sang it like a play within a play being performed at a mental institute for the criminally insane.

Imelda Staunton gave us the most real depiction of Rose Hovick that we've seen yet. She gave us a real woman who could really do all those horrible things to her own children.

I loved her work in it. She was brilliant.

I wish the TV recording was good. Sadly, it probably scuppered any chances of a transfer. The Donmar "Cabaret" improved when it became the Roundabout "Cabaret." I could see the same for London "Gypsy."

I've been in correspondence with Sondheim for decades. He is always gracious. He can put more in a paragraph than most people put into pages and pages. He will call you out when you make a mistake or are foolish.

You're lucky it's only correspondence or he might use the riding crop.

When is West Side Story soundtrack coming out ?

Oh, give it a rest.

Is there a good video of the Frogs ?

Yes, R424. You can find it online if you know the right places.

[quote] I do seem to recall him saying Imelda sang "Everything's Coming Up Roses" like you've never heard it before. He was right. She sang it like a play within a play being performed at a mental institute for the criminally insane.

I completely agree. I love Imelda's performance of "Everything's Coming Up Roses" — especially at the end when she shakes her arms up and down like she's completely unraveling. It's the best performance of this song that I've ever seen.

Watch 2:47 to 2:57

wow I know video and closeups can fuck with a performance but that's terrible with all the subtlety of an appendectomy with a cleaver, as if she's performing for the deaf, dumb, and blind, maybe

[quote] wow I know video and closeups can fuck with a performance but that's terrible with all the subtlety of an appendectomy with a cleaver, as if she's performing for the deaf, dumb, and blind, maybe

She's performing on stage. Subtlety doesn't work on stage.

The only problem with Imelda's performance of that song is that she played all the other scenes the same way. Loud, angry, manic, and on the verge of a psychotic break. It would have been more effective if she showed a little variation here and there.

Rose is relentless. If she could temper her narcissistic behavior, most of the play would not go on to happen.

Rose's drive is relentless. Her behavior can't be.

That's not true re Imelda. I guess no one got a video bootleg of the London run. There should be some audio floating around out there.

Staunton was brilliant. She created a damaged woman who really would act callously and selfishly with every person in her life.

Yeah, that was the most callous, selfish acting I've ever seen.

Imelda was miscast as Sally

She wasn't ideally cast. "Losing My Mind" was staged with too heavy a hand.

She was too old and ugly

C'mon now...

.....

I saw Imelda Staunton on stage in Gypsy. Just like Elena Roger in Evita I found it an example of British reviewers taking a mediocre performance and praising it to the skies. Staunton performed the part like an old Englishwoman's stereotype of what she thinks a tough American broad must be like. She screamed and yelled every line. She was devoid of any charm and was so relentlessly nasty that you wondered why Herbie and the others around her didn't just decapitate the harridan. Staunton made Patti LuPony look more nuanced in comparison.

Moo moo moo moo!

r440 that's what it looks like at r426. and that looks like it wasn't just a live stage performance they taped, I'm betting they did the performance [italic]for[/italic] the cameras, a la Sunday in the Park and others.

Does anyone here know if the National tapes at actual performances or has special calls for tapings ?

NT tapes at performances. You often see the audience and you certainly hear it. They do, however, advise ticket buyers beforehand that they're attending a performance that will be filmed, because it's obviously somewhat intrusive. I've never heard, or seen any evidence, that they intercut it with shots done without an audience.

Nonsense. Imelda was "relentlessly nasty" in "Small World," "You'll Never Get Away From Me" or "Together Wherever We Go"?

I doubt you saw her on stage. You saw the BBC TV recording like everyone else here.

Imelda's mistake was being ready for "Rose's Turn" before she even got to "Some People." It makes for a dreary evening. It was a shame, too, because her "Rose's Turn" is one of the best I've ever seen. If she'd built to it, it would have been devastating.

Rose is a selfish person, yes, but she does have to display moments of tenderness and charm to get what she wants. Rose used every tool at her disposal, not just aggressive yelling and braying to bully people into doing what she wanted. When her other tools fail her, she can bellow and bray, but that can't be her default for 2 1/2 hours. It gets old quickly and makes you wonder why someone like Herbie would stick around.

And she did use charm. It's inbuilt to the part ("Small World" etc.)

[quote]...makes you wonder why someone like Herbie would stick around.

Well, there's the problem. You weren't paying attention. He didn't. He left. He finally had enough of Rose's abuses, and he left. It happens in the 2nd Act, when Louise agrees to strip. Let that be the end of that foolish argument that Rose has to be charming so Herbie doesn't leave. He leaves. He leaves.

All who insist that Rose has to be charming are ignorant of the world. People are physically and psychologically abused every day and they stay in those bad relationships. With partners. With parents. With employers. With Scott Rudin. With Harvey Weinstein. For a host of reasons, they stay. Stronger people would leave right away. But some people... they stay.

Here's what Staunton did that was so daring and brilliant. She created a Rose who was so self-absorbed and controlling that her 16 year old daughter got married behind her back and sneaked away without telling her. She abandoned her family because she knew she had to. She escaped her mother because she saw that if she did not escape, Rose would never stop controlling her every move. Throughout the play, Louise is the milder and quieter of the two. She has to eat Rose's shit for most of another act. And really, she never does stand up to Rose until she has her own professional success and some money of her own.

Rose is not a charming woman you can reason with. She's deeply narcissistic and manipulative and she controls everyone and everybody and if you don't go along with that, you're out. By the end of Act 1, June escapes and Rose breaks with her entirely for doing so. Does she go after her daughter? Does she show any concern? NO. She drops June and substitutes Louise and she does it in about... 8 seconds.

Staunton gave us a real and dramatic Rose Hovick, not a musical comedy star lady doing a virtuoso turn.

I didn't see the performance live on stage but I have seen enough live and filmed performances over many years to know that the work can not be that dramatically different in different media. Staunton did not give a performance of a real human being no matter how narcissistic and deranged she might be; she was an actress overdoing everything and yelling.

[quote]Staunton did not give a performance of a real human being....

Perhaps none that you know.

Lucky you.

I think it's a mistake of the GYPSY play script to only have Herbie as the sole love interest. "If Momma Was Married" is somewhat unearned.

Did Dean Jones ever play Herbie?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, r 447, but for chrissakes dial it back a bit. You sound the worst kind of didact.

Less Rose. More lyrics.

How does Rose compare to Sondheim's mother?

Closely enough that R447 probably = Stephen Sondheim.

Staunton looks like she exemplifies the dumbing down of everything in that she has to play all of it with more and more [italic]stuff[/italic] to underline, emphasize, telegraph, indicate and do everything else rather than simply letting the [italic]material[/italic] do the work, which it does so well.

[quote]How does Rose compare to Sondheim's mother?

She's tall enough to be his mother.

Agree r216. And Esparza's pronunciation of "bon [italic]voyage[/italic]" in "Barcelona" makes me hate him and his poseur Bobby and wonder why those people would like him. Although it's probably Esparza showing off perfect French more than Bobby.

"I've got a new show, it's certain to blow, Even with Nathan and that Bernadette ho".

How long did that take you, r459?

Then you career from career to career.

put your dimple down

R460- 2 minutes. About the same amount of time it takes you to eat a turkey.

Had Heebie-Jeebies

For Beebe's Bathysphere

Sondheim's worst:

What's the muddle in the middle?

That's the puddle where the poodle did the piddle.

Too clever by half and takes me right out of the show every time.

And another hundred people just got off of the train, the bus.....

Life is often so unpleasant .You must know that, as a peasant.

[quote] Life is often so unpleasant .You must know that, as a peasant.

That is also one of my favorite Sondheim lyrics.

Thanks to R464 I learned something new today. Per Britannica: "Bathysphere, spherical steel vessel for use in undersea observation, provided with portholes and suspended by a cable from a boat. Built by the American zoologist William Beebe and the American engineer Otis Barton, the bathysphere made its first dives in 1930." Mr. Beebe pictured.

"something, something, rooting through my rutabaga, blah, blah, blah...arugula..blah blah"

"Does anyone still wear a hat?"

I'm electrifying and I ain't even trying

I saw City Center Encores version of Gypsy with LuPone and had a great time. For me, the star of the evening was Marilyn Caskey as Electra. The character of Electra never grabbed me in any version of Gypsy I'd seen up to that point. I thought maybe it was the nature of the beast, Tessie and Mazeppa are tough acts to follow. Until Ms. Caskey. Brilliant. She underplayed it as if she'd been "electrified" a few too many times. One of her legs was sort of dragging behind her. Her costume headpiece didn't really light correctly or on cue or at all. Her motor skills were not responding maybe due to nerve damage, sense of direction askew. She was so brilliant with the nuance that I can't find words. I was crying with laughter. Laughed so hard I cracked my head on the seat in front of me. I looked up to see the blackout at the end of the number and in the darkness her headpiece finally lit up as she trying to exit and wandering into the wings.

Great post. Not really the right thread for it but.........

R473- You're absolutely right. 🙏🏻 And thank you for the compliment.

[quote]"Does anyone still wear a hat?"

I do.

Well, I don't, but he made one anyway.

This is ridiculous. What am I doing here? I'm in the wrong story.

Joanna Gleason says she basically came up with ^ that line ^ after a conversation with SS about the character. She came up with "I'm in the wrong story,"

"We all deserve to die."

In view of her penchant For something romantic, De Sade is too trenchant And Dickens too frantic, And Stendhal would ruin The plan of attack As there isn't much blue in The Red and the Black. De Maupassant's candour Would cause her dismay The Brontes are grander But not very gay Her taste is much blander I'm sorry to say But is Hans Christian Ander- Sen ever risque?

^ Sorry but I'm not going to bother to fix it. You all know it anyway. But I'll add:

My body's all right

But not in perspective

And not in the light.

Could I bury my rage With a boy half your age In the grass? Bet your ass.

Slightly off topic but does anyone know when and why "Could I leave you -- yes!" was changed to "Could I Ieave you -- guess!"

Changed? Yes comes earlier in the song. Guess replaces it at the end.

Oh, I always thought I heard "yes" at the end on the OBC. But I just listened to it again very loud and I guess it does sound more like "guess."

I have a hearing impairment. Deaf in my right ear, certain frequencies don't register in the left. I have to listen to things really loud. I didn't completely lose my hearing in my right ear until 15 or 20 years ago and I still miss the sense of spatiality that comes from stereo hearing so much.

And don't bother to offer advice. I've spent years going to audiologists and have had three surgeries on my right inner ear. Osteosclerosis is curable 90 to 95% of the time with surgery, one of the few forms of deafness that is. I'm in the 5%.

dinners for ten

elderly men

from the U.N.

How ridiculous. To be looking at her and be thinking of you.

Besides, you ever see a bear with forty foot feet?

Sondheim has always said he takes things from librettists' drafts, how many of these might have been written by the book writers?

There I was in Mr. Orpheum's office...

23 Skidoo!

High in a tower she sits by the hour maintaining her hair.

Next!

Sic semper tyrannis

Hush, love, hush.

Wham! Bam!

Thank you, Ma'am!

Anyone can whistle.

That's what they say.

Easy.

I'm an old broad!

I drink cocktails at lunch!

My husband porks his secretary!

While I'm doing brunch!

something about your day job, r498

I want to the way that it was

[quote] I want to the way that it was

oh, dear

I'm a fancy flower!

I drink every hour!

Takes my uppers with my downers!

Boys, send in dem clowners!

I'm dead.

I’m defying gravity.

Every day a little death. Especially today.

Look, perhaps I'll collapse In the apse right before you all So take back the cake Burn the shoes, and boil the rice.

"....watching little things grow"

There's a Twitter handle with 38,000 followers

I've heard this song too frequently done as sprechstimme because the person performing had no singing ability.

But this version has a proper singer who does an amazingly controlled final note but her singing ability just makes us realise the monotonous repetition in the lyric.

Do we think that Steve would like playing Wordle?

No. Not challenging enough.