Woodstock 99’

I was a kid but I remember thinking it didn't look like much fun. So much mud!

Wasn’t this a flop?

there was too much hip hop and gangster rap, driving the audience into a violent frenzy. That, combined with ridiculously high prices of food and water, and unfortunate sanitary conditions, led to the bad vibes.

didn't a bunch of sexual assaults happen there?

I was 16 and wanted to go so badly. My mom rolled her eyes and ignored me. When I was watching it (on MTV?) and saw the shit going down I was like 😬 better not mention this or I’ll get an I told you so…

R4, yes. Honestly it looks like it was really miserable.

A measure of how far American culture had plummeted in 30 years.

99'

Idiot.

R7, yes.

sorry, not hip hop and gangster rap. It appears it was hard rock and metal like Korn, Rage Against The Machine and Limp Bizkit that drove the crowd into a frenzy.

[Quote] was a kid but I remember thinking it didn't look like much fun. So much mud!

That was feces.

Lilith Fair was the musical precursor to MichFest. How many eldergays were really there listening to Sarah McLachlan and Ani DiFranco?

R12, many.

Ah, the women of the Lilith era…

Meredith Brooks

Fiona Apple

Sophie B Hawkins

Jewel

Paula Cole

Liz Phair

Natalie Merchant

Shawn Colvin etc etc

R14 And 2 of those 8 people you listed are now Republicunts.

I’m going to say Sophie and Shawn?

[quote] Lilith Fair was the musical precursor to MichFest. How many eldergays were really there listening to Sarah McLachlan and Ani DiFranco?

Lots of women there lapping at each other's ladyhams.

I was around the age of attendees, a Freshman in college in upstate New York and I don't remember having any interest. The only people I know you went were either heavy into the drug scene OR douchey rich kids. My cousin fit into this category and I remember I embarrassed him by asking what song from what act he was most hoping to hear and he couldn't answer. I think he left even before things went South and stayed in a hotel and now he's a Trump voter.

Lilith Fair and its ilk of female folk-pop singer-sonwriters died out because that dumb talentless cunt Britney Spears came on the scene in 1998 and permanently ruined pop music.

R16, Meredith is one. The other is definitely NOT Liz Phair.

r19 many (if not most) of the Lilith Fair gals were in their thirties by the late 90s so they were aging out anyway. I do agree with you that Britney, N Sync etc. ruined pop music.

Lollapalooza '92 is a defining moment in my life. If I could relive any day, it might be that one.

I just finished the New HBO doc a few minutes ago. Highly recommended. In short, it makes a case for the direct correlation between Woodstock 99 and white, male, 40-year-old trump supporters. It was an ugly time for pop music.

Elements of the Fyre Festival before the Fyre Festival.

R23, so it’s basically just another braindead lecture on how evil white men are? Hard pass.

I assume either Sophie or Jewel is the other republicunt.

All the others are sane.

I suspect Sophie.

Sophie was very well spoken and could defend her opinions when she used to appear on shows, she had a very liberal POV but I could see her swinging the other way for some reason.

I thought it was Woodstock ‘94?

Woodstock 94 was a big deal at the time and it's totally forgotten now.

Woodstock 94 also did price gouging for food and water but the facilities were better setup, also the artists were more crowd friendly.

You’d think the organizers would have learned from the mistakes at Altamont that places like dry lake beds, old airport runways, and racetracks are terrible for concerts of this size due to the hard ground and lack of shade.

Woodstock 94 was more in tune with the spirit of the original. Some criticisms, but It was a pleasant, largely subdued affair. Nothing extraordinary, which is why it's forgotten now.

Woodstock 99 is just remembered for the violence, as well as the tone deafness of the whole thing. It was nothing but a crass capitalistic attempt to profit off the original. No one from the original had any part in it. I knew people who were going, and they were either trashy druggies just looking to party or spoiled rich kids going to be cool.

Incompletely forgot there was a Woodstock 99.

Per the HBO doc, the organizer seems to blame the whole thing on Fred Durst.

Lived five miles from Woodstock '99 and took a hard pass on the experience. Could see the smoke from the fires from the back yard. Had a couple of cars with Georgia tags parked in the front lawn, the occupants were bathing in an irrigation pond on the property. The local media was in a frenzy over the "millions" of people coming to town. It was a big bust. I guess no one told the media that once folks were on the property they'd be locked in until they left.

imagine being locked into a treeless tarmac on a 100 degree day, not being able to bring your own food and drink, and having to sleep on asphalt while Fred Durst is screaming. Fun.

I saw Sophie and her band in concert a half dozen times circa 1992-1994. She was always nuttier than a squirrel turd.

My jaw still hurts from her bassist, though. I was so close to having my ass hurt, too.....just ran out of time. And weed.

Sheryl Crow has the best comment in the documentary imo, something to the effect of “Why are these 24-year-old privileged white men so angry?”

Sheryl Crow has a big craving for privileged, douchebag white men as partners. See: Kid Rock and Lance Armstrong

^^^ and Eric Clapton

R40, they dated?! Wow, she really knows how to pick em.

Break Stuff

[quote]Lilith Fair was the musical precursor to MichFest.

That's quite a feat, considering MichFest started in 1976.

The original Woodstock, itself, was kind of a mess too.

[quote]No one from the original had any part in it.

Oh. I see.

Sophie B Hawkins always seemed mentally off, and like she could easily fall prey to conspiracy theories.

[quote]Woodstock 99 is just remembered for the violence, as well as the tone deafness of the whole thing. It was nothing but a crass capitalistic attempt to profit off the original. No one from the original had any part in it.

I presume that you mean "no one from the original had any part of it," with regards to the performing artists (which I think a few did preform, like John Entwistle), because the co-creator of Woodstock was DEFINITELY involved in the mess that was Woodstock 1999: Michael Lang.

It is really interesting how Woodstock 94 is just completely forgotten. It's kind of lost in the shuffle between the original and the 99 festival.

An ersatz Woodstock? Puleeze.

I remember there wasn’t enough food, water and endless lines for the bathroom, which helped fuel the chaos and riot.

I am watching the HBO documentary right now and I really really want to track down the promoter of Woodstock 99 and punch him in the face. What a psychopath

It was interesting to me that Coachella was presented as the antithesis of Woodstock 99. I'm SURE that in 1999, it actually was the antithesis of it, but now? Sure, no one is getting raped with a bottle at Coachella, but... well...

R1...Lots of mud, but sounds like a lot of it was shit, overflowing from the toilets. They were rolling around in that...ugh.

r38 and she's a privileged white woman who is richer than all of them, why is she such a cunt?

[quote] a lot of it was shit, overflowing from the toilets. They were rolling around in that...ugh.

I couldn't think up a better metaphor for Limp BIzkit if I tried.

My partner has watched the HBO doc twice today. For some reason just talking about it with him makes my blood boil. I think it's because Woodstock 99 represents the end of the 90s, both literally and figuratively. Anyone who watches that doc and still says that Gen X isn't the source of most of society's problems today is in denial.

People in their 40s right now were, and still are, some dumb motherfuckers.

I have to admit, Limp Bizkit's Nookie was one to crank up full volume. Catchy..

R56 I think you mean Millennials, not Gen X

Gen X is that generation in between Boomers and Millennials who thinks they're both cunts.

Yes many millennials think anyone over the age of 40 is a boomer

Every generation becomes more conservative as they get older. It just is what it is.

^ yep.

r60 and boomers think any young person is a millennial

R12 = certified dipshit.

Precursor to Michfest my big '70s bush!

[quote]hip hop and gangster rap, driving the audience into a violent frenzy

Datalounge is literally the only place where I still hear these old, long-discredited opinions, like "video games and hip hop cause violence."

[quote]In short, it makes a case for the direct correlation between Woodstock 99 and white, male, 40-year-old trump supporters.

That's interesting, r23. I'll need to watch it. I was old enough that I remembered the backlash to disco in the late 1970s, so when the backlash to indie and grunge (actual grunge, not corporate) started in the mid 1990s, it felt like deja vu.

People forget that there were a lot of Gen X and old Millennial Republicans. MTV hired Kennedy to cater to that demographic and even sent her to a political convention (don't remember which party) for her to trash Democrats. I recall watching segments of shows where she and some celebrity like Penn Gillette would make fun of liberals.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out the corporate fiasco of Woodstock '99 was part of that whole young neo conservative scene.

There were some pretty iconic performances at Woodstock 99

This is hilarious

This band was SO lame. But you have to marvel at the size of that crowd - I don't think a rock concert like this will ever happen again

God, Jewel was awful. If I had to listen to a 15 minute version of her scatting I’d probably throw things too.

Shitty music in a shitty venue, shitty people in shitty mud.

The '99 Woodstock is also revealing of just how far rock had fallen from the early 90s and all the decades that preceded it. Sheryl Crow? Jewel? Bush? KID ROCK?! LIMP BIZKIT!? FUCKING CREED!????? No wonder teen pop (both of which I mostly hate) took over. ,

I couldn't watch it. Too self pitying, too much of a navel gazing, rewriting of history through our current super-victim viewpoint. No one was responsible for their participation or behavior. It's like 40 year olds want to be held and coddled for their decade old self inflicted trauma that they chose with open arms... almost co-opting and bastardizing MeToo...

The part about the predominantly white crowd singing "n*gga" during DMX's performance of a song with that word in it was very cringey.

If someone writes a popular song with the word "ni*gga" in it, they shouldn't get offended when people start repeating the lyrics.

R68 I got to 8:45 and that bitch was SCREAMING. 😂

The doc was good. I only remember seeing brief scenes on TV news of the mud and bonfires, but it was brief clips as you didn’t get internet media like you do today—and no smart phones. A lot if the footage was pretty disturbing—especially the promoter who criticized anyone identifying problems as being too negative—and MTV was to blame for their negative spin on things. Typical CEO positive thinking solves all lol

I had completely forgotten about Woodstock 99

Watching this, it was interesting to note how fashions haven't changed much at all. 22 years later, nearly everything that was worn back then would look totally current today.

How random to have Jewel and Insane Clown Posse performing at the same concert.

I was 22 at the time and didn't live too far from where Woodstock 99 was being held. When it was announced I thought about going but then when I saw the list of acts who were playing I said "oh, hell no." Insane Clown Posse, Korn, Bush, Limp Bizkit, Creed and others of that ilk. Ugh. I hated all of them.

I should add that as soon as I saw the complete lineup of who was playing I knew it was going to be a festival of straight asshole douchebag-type guys and I wasn't surprised that it erupted in violence.

I remember Tabitha Soren from MTV acted so aghast when someone suggested that the aggressive rap/rock music was to blame for firing up the crowd. It was pretty obvious that it was.

I always felt pop culture got progressively shittier and darker through the 90s but assumed it was just my own hard times at the time that had darkened the lens. Then in 2001 we got 9/11, which changed it for the worse even more. Glad I grew up in the 80s when things weren’t quite so crazy yet. We had our challenges, but at least you had a sense of optimism that I think slowly evaporated in the 90s, and ultimately morphed into a cultural nihilism. No wonder we got Trump as POTUS.

Yeah R84. Watching this and looking back, you can see the writing on the walls for trump.

Alternative rock got so shitty by the late 90s that it made the boy bands seem not so bad in comparison. It was like all the crappy hair metal bands who were banished in the early 90s came back in angsty grunge "nu metal" drag.

I still remember that era mostly with fondness, though. It was after 9/11 that shit really started to get dark (and stay dark).

yeah R86, they seemed fake and manufactured as ‘alternative’ such as Nickelback, Creed, and Googoo Dolls.

Just watched the HBO doc. While I think it's a little heavy handed in the theme of blaming angry straight white guys for everything, it was still well done and worth a watch. I was 18 at the time and remember all of it very well.

I have a question...probably a silly one, but does this have another episode? I watched it on demand, and this was listed as episode 1....thinking there will be another? I can't imagine...I think it's all been covered. I googled, but got no answer.

There should’ve been a heavy police presence.

It was a pretentious wannabe Woodstock for late gen x early millennial tryhards.

I realize an all-day concert is a lot different than a 3-day festival, but the joy of the audience at the Wembley Live-Aid was palpable. I do think the caliber of the artists has a lot to do with it, Live-Aid was the apex of popularity for the British new romantics and their fans.

The music landscape at that time was absolutely dreadful. Nu metal (however you spell it), or Disney teen pop. It was all shit. I was in my early 20s at the time and had already checked out of MTV and what my peers were listenting to.

Maureen Callahan from Spin Magazine had the best commentary, very insightful.

[quote] Insane Clown Posse, Korn, Bush, Limp Bizkit, Creed and others of that ilk. Ugh. I hated all of them.

This brings back shades of the music that was insanely and inexplicably popular when I was in high school. And yes, fans of those bands were assholes! No wonder this event turned into a shit show.

The organizer was an ass but I commend him for saying what was true for SOME women. Don’t go into a crowd of horny, dehydrated, drugged men topples crowd surf. That’s a certifiable way to get your nipples tweaked or worse, fingers in tour pussy.

Be like me, a gay man, going into that ‘99 crowd asking asking random guys if they want a blowjob. I would have gotten my ass beat.

Women were NOT asking to be assaulted and don’t deserve any of that bull shot, but some situational awareness is important. This is how so many women made it through that festival unscathed and ungroped. You gotta be smart because are pack animals.

OP- You should be asking if Eldergays remember Woodstock 69

Actually, Woodstock 99 would mean you're middle-aged now so that counts as Eldergay.

I didn't think it would be very interesting, but decided to just watch the doc anyway and boy was I surprised. It was excellent. It really weaved together what was happening in the culture and society at large to the events of the festival and why everything went wrong.

^^^ Yes! I don't know how some women think that going topless, shaking their boobs....crowd surfing, complying to the chants of "show your titties" wouldn't be an invitation of a lot of groping. Of course, men should control themselves and those 20 something douche bros are big assholes...the women have to use common sense. They're asking for trouble.

That was in reply to R96..

[QUOTE] show your titties

“OK!”

R89, it’s the first episode of Music Box. The others are:

[quote]Jagged: An intimate exploration of Alanis Morissette and her groundbreaking 1995 album Jagged Little Pill; Directed by Alison Klayman.

[quote]Untitled DMX: A film with rare access to the late rapper after his release from prison – a portrait of a man struggling with addiction, fame, and his inner demons in the final years of his life; Directed by Christopher Frierson.

[quote]Listening to Kenny G: An examination of the most popular instrumentalist of all time and why he is polarizing to so many; Directed by Penny Lane.

[quote]Mr. Saturday Night: The untold story of Robert Stigwood and how he amped the disco era; Directed by John Maggio.

[quote]Untitled Juice WRLD: A film exploring how the late hip-hop star impacted a genre during his short life; Directed by Tommy Oliver.

Thank you R103. :)

I finished HBO documentary. Beyond the sexual assault stuff, the rest doesn't seem like that big of a deal. They burned some crap but legit people came out of it alive. The friend's overweight friend died of heat exhaustion, that was tough. But really, this was about the wrong line up for the concert and a lack of shade and free water.

What's with all this anger about pop music. That's for teens and never went anywhere. Why were they trying to make it into such a huge deal that rock & grung fans didn't like Britney and N'SYNC, different demographics.

They really tried to make this out into so Fyre Festival type of disaster, when in fact, it did what it was supposed to do, play a bunch of music. The music worked, crowd was there, a little more preparation and it could have been a better gig.

Setting that guitar on fire was hilariously corny and cringe. Trying to add some woke logic was also cringe but they were right, what the fuck were these white middle class kids, in a super strong economy, no war, and abundant hosing angry about? Then they talk about how things were top down, because of course that's always the image they use against Democrats as they show Bill Clinton (but not one republican politician). You'd think Bill was some sort of authoritarian lording over the nation with a super majority in the House and Senate.

Sexual assaults. Terrible. But why would these women even associate with this type of crowd. Trash all around.

Final notes, straight people are so lame. Gay concerts (circuit parties) never have these issues. Sexual assault? Not really, always someone willing to help out a horny guy in the crowd. Break shit? Naw, we paid good money for our look to start turning into Lord of the Flies gorillas. General destruction? Ain't no body got time for that, we have an afterparty to attend. But, I'd love to see a gay gathering of this size to see what that'd be like.

[quote]But really, this was about the wrong line up for the concert and a lack of shade and free water.

Yeah, I'm really wondering what the organizers were thinking in terms of the bands they chose. Like, when you hear "Woodstock" one doesn't really think of bands like "Rage Against the Machine" and "Limp Bizkit."

Couldn't they have chosen more low key bands like The Tragically Hip or Dave Matthews Band? I mean, Dave Matthews is lame, but I can't imagine them setting off mass destruction in a crowd! On the other hand, I did look up a Billboard chart from 1999 and, yeah, Offspring, Everlast, Kid Rock, Limp Bizkit, Korn, etc. WERE popular, so I'm sure it made sense at the time? I'm not really sure who else they could have booked. Maybe... The Smashing Pumpkins? Third Eye Blind?

If anything, the documentary really reminded me that guitar-driven rock is pretty much dead on mainstream charts. Who's left? The Foo Fighters?

I don't think the words "iconic" and "Bush" belong in the same sentence, but okay.

R106, Dave Matthews Band was there.

R108 I know, I just meant MORE bands in that style.

^Like who? For better or worse, the bands that performed were the ones who were popular at the time (for a rock concert audience).

The bigger surprise is that they even booked Jewel and Alanis Morissette in the first place -- totally different fan crowds.

Creed bringing out some old rocker guy that no one even recognized was hilarious, just like the "F-U-C-K" chant. I mean it was 1999 without Youtube, how would they know about this stuff? They should have played 1969 Woodstock clips throughout the night if they wanted to remind these kids of their grandparent's party.

I also like that pop acts today insist on stage fans today. No reason for the talent to be having a heat stroke when you could setup up multiple fans, as Beyonce has perfected. If I was an artist, I would have been pissed off to even be on that sweltering stage with those smell attendees. Bet it smelled like ass and unbrushed teeth, yuk.

R110 I don't know. Did you not read my post? I literally said that in the post.

R112, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you don't know, since you *literally* had to look up a Billboard 100 List to see who was popular at the time.

R113 Sorry, I don't remember off the top of my head what was passing for "rock" music in 1999, hun.

R106, for the record, the low-key Dave Matthews wasn't exactly innocent. He made pervy comments about the abundance of bare titties in the crowd, which didn't exactly de-escalate a horny, amped-up crowd.

[quote]Gay concerts (circuit parties) never have these issues.

Because gay men are more civilized. Yes, we can get sloppy drunk and fucked up on drugs but we're not violent animals.

The NYPD like working the Pride parade because it's the only time of the year where there's a big gathering of people in NYC and no violence breaks out.

[quote]Why were they trying to make it into such a huge deal that rock & grung fans didn't like Britney and N'SYNC, different demographics.

Because the Disney teen pop was REALLY taking over the mainstream. This was mentioned in the doc. They said something like the Woodstock audience was pissed because MTV was handed over to their little sisters, and the rock fans were abandoned. Mainstream radio too. Caron Daly basically fled for his life from Woodstock 99 because of TRL which was teen pop-heavy.

You have to remember what MTV was in this era. It was HUGE. Everybody and their brother who grew up in the 80s and were now young adults in the 90s were daily viewers of MTV and it shaped our lives to an extent.

I think a lot of the teens/pre-teens who were diehard nu-metal/grunge fans just moved on to rap later. And these were typically people who HATED rap (unless it was in the nu-metal form). Sooner or later, hip hop just dominated the mainstream.

It's really crazy to think that by 1999, teen pop, country and hip hop were the dominant sound. Just a few earlier, Alanis, Celine, Mariah, Hootie and The Blowfish, Jewel, No Doubt, etc were the dominant sound.

The way that promoter asshole shut down any criticism is how you get many of these problems. The my way or the highway and not listening to experts or consulting others is a bad business model. I’ve seen it in small companies where the main investor or stockholder thinks they are automatically qualified to run things or be the final decision maker.

Although Woodstock '94 wasn't as terrible, many a Gen-Xer recognized it for what it was - Woodstock '69 promoters wanting to make money out of the memory of the original. The Woodstock '69 promoters - Mike Lang, et al. didn't recoup their money till the 80's, and they were adamant it wouldn't happen to them in '94.

So When Woodstock '99 rolled around. I knew I didn't want any part of it. It was sickening to witness these Boomer assholes fleecing people, and everyone my age with half a brain cell knew to stay away from it. Just the high price of the tickets was enough to keep most people away. The only people I knew who went were rich assholes, who of course are now Trumptards.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the men at Woodstock 99 who were causing mayhem and assaulting women turned into MAGAts 15 years later.

[quote]You have to remember what MTV was in this era. It was HUGE. Everybody and their brother who grew up in the 80s and were now young adults in the 90s were daily viewers of MTV and it shaped our lives to an extent.

The people who grew up on 80's era MTV despised TRL and MTV basically becoming bubble gum pop central and suburban angst pop rock. Carson Daly was about as uncool as you could get. Yet for some reason the media lapped this shit up.

The music media in general starting treating this crop like they were serious artists, and it was baffling to many. It started being nominated for Grammys and being taken seriously. As a result, mainstream music became dumbed down. And it's never recovered.

I'd say 1998 was the last good year of music before the downslide began.

Totally agree r123. Teen pop always had its place, it was never given awards or treated seriously. New Kid On the Block and Debbie Gibson were never in the same category as Prince and Madonna, for example. That all changed with NSync and Britney. Suddenly they were treated like serious artists on par with adult artists and it was really baffling to those of us from Gen X, like "WTF is going on here?" The documentary mentioned this.

I really enjoyed the documentary.

So many future Trump voters in one place.

DEFINITELY future Trump voters! I thought of that constantly while watching this documentary.

Fred Durst was such a trashy idiot, thankfully his fame was short-lived.

Even his sex tape was pathetic.

More like Mookstock '99.

I wonder if any homosexuals were at this concert.

r129 I'm sure there might've been a few, but most of the bands playing Woodstock '99 weren't of interest to gay men. I never knew a gay man who was a fan of Limp Bizkit or Korn, for example. It was lower-class straight guys who were into that kind of garbage.

[quote] Be like me, a gay man, going into that ‘99 crowd asking asking random guys if they want a blowjob. I would have gotten my ass beat.

I was 18 and totally remember this. I lived on the west coast but it looked like absolute hell on MTV. I really liked some of the bands. I remember analyzing limp bizkit lyrics with friends, convincing ourselves that piece of trash Fred Durst was really bi. I loved Bush, Limp Bizkit, Moby, but that did not look gay boy friendly. I was a raver boy. Ravers thought that crowd was trash, but I still liked some of the music. Raves were much more fun and I hope they do a deep dive into the late 90's rave culture of PLUR which was the opposite on display of the festival.

What happening to Dexter from The Offspring. Man he looks like shit now. The Offspring was a great band - that's another performance I wouldn't have minded seeing. The girls were WHORES back then. Girls back in 99 weren't triggered innocents. Most of them were drugged out sluts who lived for crazy sex for bragging rights. Sex and the City have entered the lexicon in 98/99.

Fred Durst wrote and directed that super cringey movie with John Travolta as a mentally retarded fan that turns deranged stalker. Terrible.

The doc reminded how much I hated those Girls Gone Wild ads.

One's career really has to hit the rock bottom in order for that person to even consider to be in something written or directed by Fred Durst.

[quote]The girls were WHORES back then. Girls back in 99 weren't triggered innocents. Most of them were drugged out sluts who lived for crazy sex for bragging rights.

I was in college in NY at the time and I concur. Girls back then were sex crazy skanks. The morning after pill was introduced around this time and that made it all even crazier.

[quote] Do any of you eldergays remember this, or were you more Lilith Fair types?

We were more into Marian Anderson's concert in front of the Lincoln Memorial.

[quote] Girls back in 99 weren't triggered innocents. Most of them were drugged out sluts who lived for crazy sex for bragging rights.

The mommy issues are strong with this one!

Yes I think the metoo-esque focus on sexual abuse was a bit too much—like the girls back then were innocent nymphs and didn’t have the capacity to know walking around naked at a crowded rock concert for three days might be dangerous. No one deserves to be abused, but you are still responsible for being situationally aware. I do remember girls in the 80s going to concerts with flats or sandals and losing their shoes in the crowd. Dumb.

The original was an MKUltra honey trap to begin with.

Thank you, MRAs, on your valuable input. Now, recommend us some educational material by great thinkers such as Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson.

I think it was actually a period of time when women were taking ahold of their sexual power for once, "having sex like men", wanting to be the girl in girls gone wild, sex tape leaks by the women.

STFU r141. Those of here talking about it actually lived through it in real time.

I wonder if anyone alive today is a Woodstock '99 baby.

I lived through it in real time and the asshats like you, R143, were creepy even back then.

I wonder how many abortions were the result of Woodstock '99.

I find the thought of sex at a festival incredibly gross. I had gay friends who went to Burning Man and talking about the hot sex and seeing photos of them super dirty and thinking 🤢

[quote] I just finished the New HBO doc a few minutes ago. Highly recommended. In short, it makes a case for the direct correlation between Woodstock 99 and white, male, 40-year-old trump supporters. It was an ugly time for pop music.

One wouldn’t think Trump supporters would even like rock music at all. Trump himself seems to prefer Frank Sinatra and, surprisingly, the Village People.

R123 " the music media started treating them like they were serious artists". Yes, and it's baffling and bizarre how long this trend has gone on. Music reviewers can never just say that something is fun and catchy. They have to do this laughably somber analysis . If some singer were to release a hit song called " Flash U My Titties Baby" the review would describe it as a brilliant and savvy post modern feminist statement.

It would be if it were a song about breast-feeding in public.

The first hint that the festival would be a disgusting disaster was the inclusion of Limp Bizkit.

A gay male friend in his sixties is heading for Lollapalooza tonight. I hope it's safer than Woodstock '99.

I remember them saying that being on a tarmac elevated the already sweltering heat with zero shade. By the end of the doc, I was ready to burn some shit down too.

I would never any concert or festival where I had to stand for hours. Do people still pay big bucks to do this?

I burned my laptop when I finished the doc!

*I would never go to any concert

R152, your friend is headed towards a superspreader event during a pandemic surge?

He'll deserve whatever he gets.

It was very foolish to hold the event at a place that was covered in tarmac, in the middle of summer. We all know how blazing hot tarmac gets in the heat, and add to the fact you had thousands and thousands of people packed together like sardines generating tons of body heat. It was insane that the organizers never thought of this.

Honestly the doc was so good in how it mirrored the buildup. I felt anxious just watching the mayhem.

Question—did RHCP play that JH song to exacerbate the madness? They never really explained if it was an attempt to quell the crowd as asked, or done to incite more chaos.

I loved Maureen Callahan's comment about how the most offensive thing about Woodstock 99 (and also Woodstock 94) was how the promoters who were relics of the 60s thought that Woodstock was something Generation X wanted or needed. They were like "you need what we had" and it just underscored the narcissism of the Boomer generation.

It also underscored how many boomers that were demanding radical social change in the 60s became the exact opposite of what they supposedly aspired to become.

Reading about Woodstock '99 always reminded me of Altamont - among other things, both locations were apparently terrible locations to hold a concert, unless what you were aiming for was a dystopian hellscape. People never learn.

As I see the friends I had from 99 now having kids and hating life, I bet most would give anything to go back and shake their bare titties to Fred Durst on hot asphalt, stinky pinky from a hot frat boy welcomed.

R123 That style of criticism is called “Poptimism” and has been the dominant style for almost 15 years.

Not good but claim they didn’t realize

I find it a little depressing that there are adults who use the phrase "poptimism" with apparent seriousness. See also: "rockism."

I notice that the dudebros at Woodstock ‘99 dress and act exactly like today’s dudebros. It’s like we entered a malevolent timeloop that year.

[quote] “I’m forever near a stereo saying, ‘What the fuck is this garbage?’ And the answer is always the Red Hot Chili Peppers.”

Nick Cave about the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Blessedly, I haven't often thought about Limp Bizkit in the last 20 years, but seeing this did bring a lot of stuff back into sharp relief. Basically, what a tool Fred Durst was. I mean, this guy who was a record executive at the time needing everyone to know about how the anger he had because of...reasons.

I mean, at least Rage Against the Machine went after societal targets.

I think that's what really gets me. Both sides of the coin, both the nu metal AND the bubblegum pop were so empty.

Durst's biscuit is kinda sexy. Plus, he's not trying to appeal to chicks... I like how he shakes his ass while covering George Michael's "Faith."

[quote] Sophie was very well spoken and could defend her opinions when she used to appear on shows, she had a very liberal POV but I could see her swinging the other way for some reason.

Sophie was a Hillary supporter in 2008, but she despised Obama, and when Obama became the nominee, she became a Republican and supported McCain and Palin. Here she is at CPAC's GOProud event in 2011, where she was the featured performer, talking about her love of guns and oil drilling, paling around with Andrew Breitbart, and being "liberal in bed, conservative in the head." (The interview with her starts at 5:20.)

And yet her Twitter is full of environmental and feminist stuff.

She's strange.

I loved “Right Beside You” from her, too bad it wasn’t a hit. Great song.

I also thought it was interesting that the guy from Megadeath was this close to calling out Lars Ulrich for his whole Napster thing.

"Reading about Woodstock '99 always reminded me of Altamont - among other things, both locations were apparently terrible locations to hold a concert"

I know an older couple that were at Altamont, they said they were so far from the stage that they didn't realize anything was wrong. They had a great time and thought the concert was terrific, and were absolutely astonished when they read the news the next day.

^^ The Sophie clip with now-deceased Andrew Brietbart calling out Ryan Sorba is quite good. Thanks

The stage at Altamont was only five feet above the ground, only the people surrounding the stage got a good look.

I don't care, I like Break Stuff. It came on my favorites playlist last year and I love working out to it. There was something kind of raunchy sexy about Fred Durst back in 99 back I always felt like he had a small dick. STP would have been an amazing addition to the lineup.

[quote] I find it a little depressing that there are adults who use the phrase "poptimism" with apparent seriousness. See also: "rockism."

I'm in the "a plague on both your houses" camp.

[quote]I think that's what really gets me. Both sides of the coin, both the nu metal AND the bubblegum pop were so empty.

It was a terrible period for music. I was in my early 20s at the time and I should've been totally immersed in then-current music, but I checked out completely. I couldn't stand MTV or Top 40 radio anymore.

Me too, R180. I was a teenager and I couldn't believe how much idiotic trash was being churned out, worse yet than even the worst music that came before it. Music so bad it physically hurts to have to listen to it in any setting.

I mean, I actually have a lot more respect for the pop because it wasn't trying to be anything deep. The documentary just reinforced that the stuff like Limp Biskit was just about a bunch of upper-middle class white guys coopting Black culture and trying to tell us all just how angry they were that the world had somehow wronged them. Literally, it's Trumpism.

I was honestly a little shocked that there was the one guy who pointed it that a bunch of white people were basically let go by the police, which was the first time he'd ever felt white privilege. I didn't think a lot of those guys would go for that level of introspection.

They should've had Kitty play on the main stage

A guy on reddit years ago recounted his experience of attending Woodstock 99 with his dad as a 14 yr old

The fact that water and food were confiscated at the gate was fucked up. Everybody had to buy food and water and it was mentioned several times that one bottle of water was $4. Even today that's high, but 22 years ago that was outrageous. You don't hold a festival in blazing heat in the middle of summer and charge for water, that's bullshit. And these were young kids who didn't have a lot of money. The lack of water, food and proper sanitation facilities contributed a lot to how out of control things became.

[quote]Now the stuff you probably want to hear about is the "riots". If I remember correctly it started during RHCP's set as a mud-slinging fight near the toilet to the west of the stage. Literally just throwing mud. Oh, and poop. Yeah, the toilets hadn't been cleaned and there were piles of shit that people picked up and started flinging around.

JFC they turned into animals.

I remember it being the year I graduated college and being at a friend's house for a BBQ and they were showing the fires on TV. I remember thinking "Wow, what a toxic indictment of my soulless, drugged-out generation, ooh, Bret Easton Ellis glamarama bullshit." Then I found out they were locked in a parking lot with no water in July.

I would have flung shit and torched the place too.

My brother and I went to go check out the aftermath of Woodstock '94 with our friends. It was every inch the mud and shit-smeared mess '99 was, judging from the wreckage. Some irate boomer found us and started chewing us out about how degraded our generation was. We left without talking back but now I wish we'd told him to piss up a rope.

Humanity is always mere days from utter chaos.

[quote]. Some irate boomer found us and started chewing us out about how degraded our generation was.

Oh that was rich, coming from a Boomer of all people! You want to talk about a "degraded" generation, look no further than them.

Boomers have no right to talk about any generation being degraded after the shit their generation did in the 1980s along with Reagan, then W. Bush and then Trump. Fuck all of them.

Along with helping to ELECT Reagan I meant. Of course Reagan wasn't a Boomer.

In retrospect, at least Altamont was free. People had to pay through the nose for the "experience" of Woodstock '99

Of course the original Woodstock was just as filthy, and with the audience's field churned to mud and totally inadequate toilets, nobody there knew what kind of wet cold brown stuff they were lying in.

But they were all too gorked to care, so it's gone down in history as a happy experience,

R184 Thanks for sharing that reddit post. Eye opening. Loved his father explaining the difference between women being treated as objects and women freely expressing their sexuality and freedom.

I remember watching the coverage of Woodstock '99 and remembering the Dead Kennedy's song "Chickenshit Conformist". They criticized the co-opting of the Punk movement by people like the white dudebro future Trumpers at Woodstock '99.

It's all about the he said, she said bullshit!

The commodification of most anything usually ruins things. Anything good that happens spontaneously that people try to turn into a money making opportunity (especially where it’s as nakedly greedy as this one was) you end up with an ugly distortion of it. Even their assessment of Coachella was correct in that it’s less about the music and more about seeing and being seen on social media.

Women were chased into the fucking cornfield by groups of men trying to rape them. They were not topless or being "slutty", as some on this thread are alleging.

These women, whom I knew personally, were groped and harassed, whether they were alone or with their friends (the friend group was male and female). They were traumatized by straight, white males attempting to sexually assault them, constantly, for simply existing.

[quote]They were traumatized by straight, white males attempting to sexually assault them, constantly, for simply existing.

As if straight, black males wouldn't have sexually assaulted them.

Fuck off, racist moron r198.

The assailants were white. Does that hurt your fragile, wittle fee-fees?

r199 calling them straight white males makes it sound like they're the only males who would do that.

r187 does have a good point. If you corrall thousands and thousands of people in their late teens/early 20s into an area that's covered in asphalt in the dead heat of summer with no water, no facilities and no way to escape the boiling heat, they're going to go apeshit crazy.

[quote]Some irate boomer found us and started chewing us out about how degraded our generation was.

That irate Boomer must've gone full-on insane when Millennials came of age a decade later. They made Gen X look like the Greatest Generation.

R201, there are two responses to being trapped in horrible conditions: 1) Go all Lord of the Flies, like these assholes did, or 2) organize and make the goddamn conditions better.

It is the mark of the spoiled douchebag that option #2 would never occur to them in a billion years.

Or they could've just left r203. If I had been there I think the river of human shit, with people rolling around in it (!) would've been my cue to say "this is nuts, let's get the fuck out of here."

So people weren’t allowed to leave when they realized it had become unsafe? I don’t get how people feel they are not responsible for their own personal safety and expect others to be responsible for them in dangerous situations. No one deserves to be assaulted or abused, but you ultimately have to be your own 911 sometimes, and that includes getting out of places where your well being is compromised or in danger. If I decide to take a walk by myself at 2 am in a dangerous neighborhood, are the police to be blame if I get mugged?

^^^I agree with you, but a lot of people under 25 still don't understand this. No offence to younger people, not everyone is the same, but it's harder for them to assess risk or understand consequences.

It's also common for all of us, regardless of age, to understate dangers. It's the "everything is fine" while everything is in flames all around you. Not trying to make excuses, but just considering the reasons.

This is why the concert promoters have the ultimate blame, in my opinion. They are responsible for creating an environment where most people will be safe. They did the opposite of that.

Well said r206. I can recall staying for shitty events, thinking well, I came all this way/paid this money, etc. I guess it was kind of the sunken cost fallacy?

That Reddit thread was interesting. People saying they were fine because they brought water and some left to go to the store to buy food and water. Also - the guy who said he was working at one of the water concession stands and his group of teen workers decided to charge more and pocket the difference.

Thanks for that link!

[quote] No offence to younger people, not everyone is the same, but it's harder for them to assess risk or understand consequences. It's also common for all of us, regardless of age, to understate dangers. It's the "everything is fine" while everything is in flames all around you.

COVID is a perfect illustration of this.

That’s why young people make “better” soldiers smh

Amazing how human beings can turn into shit-throwing chimpanzees, sometimes it only takes a couple of days.

Civilization is so fragile and we are so close to being total animals, it's unsettling. Even among people in first world countries who have grown up and lived with every modern convenience.

Even among people in first world countries who have grown up and lived with every modern convenience.

I find they are sometimes worse because they take it for granted. For them it’s a fun game with no consequences. It’s like all the little wangstas—no one who lives in “da ghetto” chose to live on poverty or think it’s cool. But if you are Chet Haze and want to come down from your mansion and play hoodrat, you have a limited perspective.

*in.

Most people traveled in groups from far away. If they wanted to leave but the driver didn't, they wouldn't have been able to get back home.

The majority of young people wouldn't have been able to afford a taxi and hotel (which were surely booked anywhere nearby), plus run the risk of being stranded far from home. Cell phones weren't prevalent and they couldn't check room availability online.

You stayed with the group.

True about cell phones. It was mentioned in the documentary just to remind people that in '99 cell phones were still few and far between, most people didn't have one yet. And for the few who did, coverage could be very spotty. It was still very much the time of landlines and pay phones.

I thought a major theme of the doc was pointing out how the cultural zeitgeist of 1999 led to the chaos. I think they specifically said it wasn’t 100% Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit’s fault. They did what they were getting paid to do. But if the lineup was all Alanis Morrisette, Jewel and Cheryl Crow type acts, I’m sure the crowd would’ve been different and they would’ve reacted in a different way - probably would have gone home after day one of hot temps, $5 waters, no bathrooms.

Here's another firsthand account of Woodstock 99 I found on Reddit (continued in next post):

I went to Woodstock '99, when I was two months shy of turning 19. I watched this yesterday, and...the guy Scher is an asshole. Damn near all the bad things that happened that weekend were a result of bad planning and greed. Apologies for the wall of text, this became longer than I expected.

It was so fucking HOT. I cannot stress this enough. It's not an easy thing to last day after day with no real shade, in constant, unrelenting sun, waking up early in your tent because it's turned in to a sweat lodge as soon as the sun rose. Honestly, since this event, I've shied away from most outdoor shows because I just hate sweating while standing/sitting still. We arrived Thursday, fairly early, but there were crowds. We had heard ahead of the weekend that outside food and drink were not going to be allowed, so we didn't bother bringing any, besides a 32 oz water for each of us, which they let us bring in. We did see the guards/staff taking away contents of coolers, and such at the gates. Note- I've heard since that it seems that it was dependent upon which guards were at the gate and when you arrived, as other folks were able to get in more of those supplies. That water bottle was crucial to survival that weekend, I filled mine up multiple times a day.

Food was foolishly expensive for 1999, and all of us young folks were not aware of how expensive things would be. Small pizza was $11 or 12 bucks, a cup of fries was 7.50, a cold soda or water was $4. THAT should have been made clear to people before they came, because it's a shit thing to do to block people from bringing in their own food, and then charging an arm and a leg for everything. Even if you did one meal a day, that was going to cost you $20 per day. The infrastructure was literal shit. Port O Potties by the camp grounds stopped being emptied early on, and eventually the ones closer to the stages overflowed, too. Yes, there was free water, but there should have been many more water stations for a group that size, with those temperatures.

Continued:

It's at this point I should mention that we left Sunday morning. We were just done. I chuckled at the documentary when the one guy said he couldn't understand why people stayed for Sunday. We had nothing terrible happen to us, as women at a show that apparently was filled with a bunch of "toxically masculine" college guys. I do want to mention that we kept clothes on, though not many- my friend and I were mostly walking around in a bra and shorts, but we never found ourselves in a position where we felt threatened by the men around us. That's not a judgement of those who stripped down entirely, I cannot say I blame them. It was SO FUCKING HOT. We never tried to get by the stages (too fucking hot, and would just be hotter in with all those bodies), so we stayed back a bit, where people were not quite on top of each other. We also did not have any interest in crowd surfing. That probably saved us from some groping, which is really sad and vile when you think about it. I'm also aware that not everyone had the same experience we did. We also did no drinking of alcohol, because it was too fucking hot, and a recipe for dehydration. We smoked weed a couple of times, in fact one of the random cool moments I recall is smoking a joint with a nice old man during the James Brown set.

When you get a large enough group of people together, some will take the opportunity to be shitty, and I imagine some of the sexual assaults would have happened anyway, even if weather were kinder and there were better things to support concert goers. BUT, when people are roasting for days, they are mad about the cost of food and cold drinks, when there is actual shit everywhere, those shitty people now have a great opportunity to commit some fuckery, and drag other people in to it, who otherwise, may have been of sound mind, and not done stupid shit. I really did appreciate the perspective of that one guy in the doc who said that he had considered himself a reasonably good person, normal person, but he was swept up in the chaos of that final night. The Lord of the Flies comparison is pretty apt. I cannot say that I wouldn't have jumped on to a truck to grab food and hurl it out, or thrown things on the fire, if I had still been there.

Continued:

We left early Sunday, it took a long time to get back home to the suburbs of Boston. We had stopped somewhere along the way and went to a real restaurant for a good meal. They sat us away from everyone, because we probably stank something awful, and we looked terrible, something I didn't realize until I got home and showered. My friend had lent me a hat one morning, which i foolishly put on before sunscreen, so when I got sick of the dark colored hat and removed it, I wound up getting a nice sunburn strip across my forehead. I had an incredible bruise on the back of one arm because I was hit with a full bottle of water that was launched during one of the performances, that some asshole didn't remove the cap from. We were all dinged up, just from enduring the weekend.

So, when that fucking asshole, Scher says that most concert goers had a tremendous time, I had to do an over the top, Tom Hanks laughing at the fallen bathtub in The Money Pit, kind of laugh. I got to see some great music and performances...but I have never considered that to be a great weekend, and nothing super bad happened to me there. It was just a rough fucking ride, that put me off of concerts for a couple of years. In my opinion, some of this could have been helped. Once it was clear that the weather was going to be horrific all weekend, they should have started giving away bottles of water. They should have made the food cheaper. Oddly, souvenirs were reasonably priced, I remember getting a couple of shirts for $10 each. Why not keep the food, the actual necessity at a reasonable range, and mark up the souvenirs? That's what I expected to find there, and the reverse was true. But, those greedy fucks wanted to make all the money they could off of the necessities. They should have worked with a vendor to get those port o potties maintained with more frequency. There should have been way more, and way better security.

Continued, final post:

Some things that I didn't see mentioned, or were not quite accurate- the wall started coming down Saturday night. I used to have a small piece of it that I picked up on my way to the tent that night. Also...they cut the feed on Limp Bizkit at some point. At least to those massive speakers. Does anyone else remember this? That pissed people off, but the sound did eventually come back after a couple of minutes. The best performance I saw there was Metallica. Holy shit, they were incredible, and ever since that weekend, I've told people that they are worth seeing live.

Fuck that Woodstock.

In 1982 I was 14 and I got my dad to haul me and some friends from LA to San Bernardino. for Steve Wozniak's US Festival

I saw

Gang of Four

The Ramones

The English Beat

Oingo Boingo

The B-52's

Talking Heads

The Police

[quote]But if the lineup was all Alanis Morrisette, Jewel and Cheryl Crow type acts, I’m sure the crowd would’ve been different

So, Lilith Fair, then?

[quote] That irate Boomer must've gone full-on insane when Millennials came of age a decade later. They made Gen X look like the Greatest Generation.

Gen X is making the Boomers look like the Greatest Generation as they age into their toxic Trump fifties with all of their awful Karens and politicians.

R160...And the boomers were very capitalist...charging $4.00 for water, everything very overpriced. So opposite of Woodstock '69...peace and everything basically free. Boomers were/are assholes. The greedy 80s really changed them.

Those of us who were the prime demo for Woodstock 99 are in that interesting generation of old millennial/young gen X. We were Gen Y at the time before millennials were even a name. There probably weren't many in attendance who are now in their 50's as they would have been in their late 20's at that point. The age range seemed about 18-22.

They call us Xennials. Usually pegged to the years Jimmy Carter was President until about '82.

^^^Interesting. I was born in 1975. At times, I do feel I have more in common with older millineals than Gen-Xers born in the 60's. Another difference is that 0lder Gen-Xers have Silent Generation parents, whereas younger Gen-Xers have Boomer parents. With that said, Gen-X is a very diverse generation, hence the "X", so we are just harder to define and stereotype.

I was 11 and someone teleported me there. I remember getting pretty high and having a good time. I used to go to Ozzfest, HFStival and Warped around that age, too.

OP. Ew. Junior breeder-fest. Good HBO doc. Some decent quick flashes of drunk bro cockage in the video.

LMAO @R210

I liked the nostalgia factor of this. It feels rare to see something completely of that time. Any recommendations of similar films from that period give or take?

It's so odd to think that when this happened 22 years ago, many Dlers were already middle-aged.

But we still looked 24.

Here are some photos

Handing out lit candles to a mob of thousands and thousands of people really wins the Darwin Award.

At least Altamont had really good music. It had a seedy, post-Manson, decadent glamour. Woodstock ‘99 was just a bunch of nihilistic turds in cargo pants listening to boring and depressing Nu-Metal.

Tevas were really big back then for both sexes, which was unfortunate because they didn’t protect anyone’s feet from the 10” deep shit/piss/mud pits that surrounded the port-o-sans. It must have been eerily similiar to the latrines at the Nazi camps which were said to be soul-crushing.

I enjoyed Moby's piss-take commentary on the whole affair. He would fit right in on DL.

This is the article that Maureen Callahan co-wrote about the whole debacle. She was one of the people interviewed.

Jesus fucking christ. I'd forgotten that article, r239.

[quote]At noon, the Canadian band Tragically Hip played the first set of the day on the East Stage. The Canadians were representing. There were faces painted with maple leafs and Canadian flags worn like superhero capes. They began singing “Oh Canada.” At which point patriotic American audience members drowned them out with their version of “The Star-Spangled Banner” while pelting the Canadians with rocks and bottles.

If I needed proof that it was a bunch of Trump Voters to Be, this is it.

I wonder if Matt Gaetz was there.

Oh yes, many of those assholes were voting for Trump 16 years later. No doubt.

Whoever these two dudes were, they had the most perfect rimmable/fuckable asses. Gorgeous!

I'm so glad that my dislike of Limp Bizkit and KoЯn fans is justified after all these years. Big homophobes, btw.

r245 my friends and I (late Gen Xers) hated that nu metal shit, or whatever it was called. HATED it. Limp Bizkit, Korn, Kid Rock and all the others. Between that shit and the Disney teen pop, it was a dark period from music.

I hadn't thought about Fred Durst, Kid Rock et. al. in years and watching this doc (which was excellent) brought it all back to me. They were such trash, thankfully their stardom didn't last long.

I looked up Fred Durst and he's still touring, or was pre-Covid. How pathetic do you have to be to buy tickets to go see a fiftysomething man yelling about breaking stuff and doing it all for the nookie? Pathetic.

"It was a dark period FOR music." Sorry.

As has been said, the people who were fans of nu metal and loved Kid Rock and Fred Durst were the most odious, obnoxious, date-rapey, homophobic asshole straight guys you ever saw. They were best to be avoided at all times.

[quote] In short, it makes a case for the direct correlation between Woodstock 99 and white, male, 40-year-old trump supporters.

I'll bet that the Woodstock '99 douches were the spawn of the Disco Demolition jerks from 20 years prior. I went to HS with these freaks.

R239: what an appalling article.

Limp Bizkit sucked!

How old were most of the concertgoers?

I was @Woodstock 94. I only remember being extraordinarily dehydrated and drunk, lots of drunk frat boys, and (God Bless him) Shannon Hoon of Blind Melon, performing in a Wedding dress. He was so fucked up, he literally had no idea where he was.

Mostly late teens - mid 20s, r252. Of course, that's the prime age for people to get angry and start fighting.

This is Limp Bizkit’s recent performance in a 2021 festival.

I’m 34 so I only saw Woodstock ‘99 on MTV.

But what a shit time for music. Metal bands with big budgets to make overproduced music and nu-metal bands like Korn and Limp Bizkit and that LA white trash look. The Fred Durst look. Terrible!

R254 is right. Basically young Gen X and older Millenials

Is this worth watching?

R257, it was not our collective finest moment!

Ben Abt, who was one of the Woodstock 99 attendees and was interviewed, is cute AF.

I liked Limp Bizkit. Fred Durst was BI on the dl.

It was considered a disaster. Rioting, fires, sexual assaults...a disaster.

R261, He did recently say that some things feels great in your butth*le.

Netflix is doing a 3-part series on Woodstock 99, coming this week.

[quote] Limp Bizkit sucked!

Limp Bizkit fans sucked. Trashy homophobes. I bet they all vote Trump now.

I remember seeing this and finding it an interesting cultural artifact. Scorsese was one of the editors on the film

Wigstock 99 was no walk in the park, either.

Woodstock 99 represented the worst of what altenrtaive music had become. Furthermore were these genres of gangsta rap and alt metal even "alternative* anymore. It was sad to these fans degrade women and cause such a ruckus of depravity and violence. It had all gone so mainstream and subversive and down right ignorant. I blame the over abundance of sex and violence presented as edginess.

Woodstock '69 was mostly mud. It was on a field of grass and open land. Woodstock '99 was on an Air Force Base with asphalt and concrete. The porta potties were overloaded and spilled over.....so that "mud" was really feces. Both were messy, but the kids enjoying rolling around in mud at the '99 festival were really rolling in shit.