Dog with cancer

Our last two cats died of various types of cancer. With the first one, we tried to treat it with chemo and various steroids and appetite stimulants...it was a grueling 2 years of treatment that I feel didn't do much and lengthened a questionable quality of life. When his brother had lung cancer a couple of years later, we let it run its course over a period of 18 months--every day gauging his quality of life. When things got difficult for him, we brought him into the vet for euthanasia. Honestly, the second one was the way to go, he lived until he couldn't live.

No advice but I'm so sorry to hear this OP. Sending you and your pup a hug.

😢 What kind of breed is your doggie? We had an 85 lb Golden and 85 lb border collie/Pyrenees who both had intestinal tumors but there were no biopsies so we never knew if they were malignant or fat lipomas. We did nothing and our dogs lived to ~13. We did not have pet insurance but $ wasn’t a problem. We just chose to let things be as both dogs also had hip issues and cataracts around age 10. My post does not answer your questions or offer advice. But I just want to let you know you are a great dog parent for seeking input.

my heart to you, OP.

I’m sorry, OP. Regarding pet insurance, I had it everything—literally everything was a “pre-condition”. No matter what it was. It was ridiculous—I cancelled it. It’s a waste of money.

Look up Judy Morgan DVM. She will have some good info.

Very sorry to hear, OP.

We had a beloved spaniel who at age 10 was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen. The vet told us that it was almost always fatal and she strongly recommended euthanasia to avoid having the dog suffer. We declined that advice and he died 3 months after the diagnosis . He was in really terrible pain despite pain medication. We should have taken the vet's advice. Fast forward six years we had a great cat that was also diagnosed with non-treatable cancer, and we did have him euthanized. We didn't want to put the cat through what the dog had suffered.

Thank you so much and I really appreciate all comments. It is so overwhelming and I want to do the right thing for her.

R3, She is a springer spaniel, so definitely could live a good few more years. The vet tells us the risk of the intestinal tumor is it could block her intestine if it grows too large. She made the prognosis sound so dire I’m so happy to hear your story that it didn’t adversely affect their lives.

That’s what I suspected, R5 about the insurance. Thank you for confirming.

The most humane thing would be to euthanize it and not try to keep it alive, suffering, just because of your sentimental attachment.

1-3 years is good, OP. I’d risk it.

At least you fought for your dog.

Yes, spent a lot of money. The dog (12 y/o) had a horrible time from chemo and ended up dying at the short end of life expectancy. In hindsight, I would have made her comfortable instead of pursuing human-like treatments.

but it is still a dog

I definitely appreciate the issue of not unnecessarily prolonging things, R7 and R9. We don’t want that. Right now, she is not in any pain or suffering and the most any vet at this point has suggested as an extreme measure is a possible amputation of her leg, not euthanasia. I don’t want the amputation as it would hinder her so much, so we have explored these other options.

OP, over 10 years ago I had a beloved cat who developed intestinal cancer at 8 years old. I spent $25,000 on chemo but he had a painful year and still died. My lesson learned, quality of life for the pet is more important than my inability to let go. It's not an easy decision, I would give it a try but be prepared to change coarse if it is obvious the animal is suffering. There is palliative care for pets.

"It", R9? Remind me never to go to you for a sympathetic ear.

Thanks, R12 and R14. I know these are hard stories to talk about, but if you could tell me what the negative impacts of chemo were I would appreciate the advice. I definitely don’t want her to suffer. Chemo is only at issue for the intestinal tumor, not the leg (which has to be operated on regardless of anything else we do).

^ Sorry I meant R15.

You should talk to your vet, OP. ^

My dog had cancer and I have this piece of advice: ask your vets the question, if this was your dog… suddenly, instead of just giving you the alternatives, vets typically will have a definitive answer.

Our late dog had her cancer successfully removed but the oncologist recommended radiation and/or chemo (both very expensive, but thankfully not a big issue for us). We were incredibly torn but when I pressed our regular vet on what he would do, he said it would take too much out of our dog and, at 11 (she was 60 lbs), that didn’t seem right. We didn’t do it and thankfully the cancer never returned.

R17, my dog had trouble eating (or, rather, keeping it down) during chemo. She had very low energy, which may have resulted from the eating issue. She didn't quite seem to recover from the chemo, even after the treatments ended and she died within 12 months after her first chemo treatment.

One relevant item: when she was much younger, she lost a leg, and that didn't affect her much. She was a very cute tripod who managed to get around quite well on 3 legs.

I lost my first dog at 10 to bone cancer that had metastasized. (Also consider amputation prior to the knowledge it started to spread.) You can’t treat an animal with any of the various methods we would use on ourselves. At 10, your dog is creating above 70. The aging process accelerates from there. We’re it not for our care, these animals would not have this duration of live. It’s up to us to make the hard choices about what keeps them happy and healthy. But l, unnecessarily prolonging their lives is not an act for the dog, it’s an act for ourselves. The wonder we get fro. This animals means making the hard choices when it’s time.

Asking the vet what it would do we’re it it’s own animal is great advice.

Thank you, R20, R21 and R22. I did ask our regular vet that when choosing to send her for treatment in our town versus a close-by veterinary university. I’ll also ask our oncology vet that question. It does focus things.

Our regular vet has basically recommended any treatment necessary to prolong her life (he has been her vet since she was a puppy so I’m not sure how objective he is). Our oncology vet has given us a few possible options, some more aggressive than others. I just wanted to get some real world experiences while we weigh what’s the best for her, and I really appreciate the comments!

That is a very tough one, OP. So sorry. It sounds like money for treatment is not an issue. What about time for many, many, many appointments? Do you have that? If yes, go for it. That said, I am a solid believer that the animal will tell you when quality of life is shitty, either from unsuccessful/aggressive treatment, or disease allowed to advance at its own pace. When you reach a place where it looks like the animal is suffering (often difficult to detect: they live in the moment and unless in extreme agony/failure, will hide it pretty successfully for a while. Until they don't) , that's when I think the kindest thing you can do is give them a good, comfortable death via euthanasia. I just went through this with a 15-year-old cat whose gradual renal failure suddenly accelerated. It felt like a house of death, with her hiding out and looking increasingly thin, ragged, unkempt (unusual for her). I made the appointment and sent her off. Very difficult, but she was NOT going to get better. And aspects of her personality would have made expensive and twice-daily treatment options the vet made up to the last minute would have pushed her off the cliff, stress-wise. Me, too. I was offended that the vet, with whom I had an extensive phone consult about the situation and was completely supportive of euthanasia nevertheless ambushed me with suggestions for 'more tests and treatment options'. I felt shaken down and manipulated. I will not return there for care of my remaining cat. Be sure you are not being sold a shit-load of false hope!

I’m sorry for your heartache. Having been through similar circumstances, my best advice is to have the dog painlessly released from this life. Cancers return, even if treated successfully. Don’t prolong its pain (and yours) any longer. And even though it appears money is no object in your situation, save your cash. There are some grifter veterinarians out there.

Agree, R24. I did have another spaniel several years ago I unsuccessfully tried to treat until I went to visit her in the hospital and she hooked her paw over my arm and gave me a look and I just knew it was the end. I will absolutely do the same for this one if necessary. I just don’t feel she is there yet.

R19, R20 -- Asking my vet questions was the most maddening aspect. In my case, all they did was confuse us and subtly guilt us for not spending $40000 in cancer care. What they say is "it is your decision and I support whatever you choose." The subtle undercurrent of their advice "Why wouldn't you spend tens of thousands on their care? Why don't you mortgage your home because you could get two more years of life out of your pet." I think this is because of the course of care we took---our regular vet was "out of her scope" and said we need to see an internist. The Internist was the one pushing surgery upon surgery.

It's so interesting because when my dog had cancer everybody assured me they tolerate chemo really well and I still decided against it, focused more on quality of life, comfort and good palliative. My view was I wasn't putting him through anything extreme if I wasn't hearing the word cure - which no one was using. The dog had a tumour in his lung, which as a primary is apparently quite rare. So I feel better about not going the chemo route when I read all these stories about it being quite rough. My dog did take another drug that interrupted the blood flow to the tumour and was quite easily tolerated. I was told it would give him a few good months. I didn't have insurance either. Ran me about $1200 a month and I thought maybe two, three months together. Well, the damned dog, bless him, didn't die for almost a year. You do the math! I wouldn't have traded it for anything but even the oncology vet halfway through it kinda sheepishly said, I had no idea it would work this well.... I know what it's costing you...

[quote] "It", [R9]?

Animals should be treated humanely, but we shouldn’t pretend they are human.

Our 13 year old pug was full of cancer. He died within a couple weeks of being diagnosed. We had no clue. It was the end of summer, and he had spent most days outside - he could spend hours just sniffing and rooting around the yard. It was pretty much business as usual for him - he had his normal appetite, and had no difficulty going to the bathroom or anything. As soon as the weather turned cold and he was in the house for most of the day, we noticed he got very lethargic, almost overnight, and started shivering and convulsing. We took him to the vet right away thinking he had some virus, and were shocked when they showed us the x-rays. And before anyone asks how we could not have known - we didn’t. Our dogs were very loved and well cared for. The vet was surprised, too. He’d had his annual checkup only about 4 months prior, and nothing showed up in his blood work at the time, either. We were happy he enjoyed his last summer, though, doing what he loved to do.

Purebreds are often cancer factories and dogs are amazingly stoic when they are unwell. Your story doesn't surprise me at all, R30.

Our big dogs did suffer as they were almost blind/deaf and had hip issues even before we got the notice of intestinal issues. They both slid and collapsed down deck and house stairs. They bled occasionally when they pooped. But we could not let them go. At least the vets came to our house. I cry thinking of all of this but they were magnificent huge dogs and we were so blessed. We waited too long as we were selfish. Not a helpful post 😥 but it’s good to see other people’s experiences with their senior doggies and kitties. We are blessed to have dogs and cats in our lives. ❤️

Oh no, R30. He sounds like he had a very happy life if that is any consolation.

We had a dog who had literally, just weeks before, had a full checkup, bloodwork, etc., and at some point after developed an aggressive autoimmune disease attacking her red blood cells and was a wreck out of nowhere. They can be troopers until it’s too late. Honestly we would not have caught the intestinal tumor now if our oncology vet hadn’t recommended an ultrasound. Even the very visible leg tumor our regular vet dismissed as a benign fatty tumor until we insisted on further tests.

Sorry about your little guy :(

Sorry to post twice in a row, but R3, R32 our other dog is a Newfoundland. I dread any future hip and leg issues. She is 5 and so far so good, but the life expectancy of giant breeds is of course lower. They are so wonderful to have but so awful to lose.

Sorry to hear about your pups too, OP. It really is difficult seeing them sick and losing them when you think of the unconditional love they give, and the trust they put in you. Like my partner said, they take a part of your heart that you never really get back.

Sorry about you dog, OP.

When my pets have been terminally ill - I PUT THEM DOWN. It's inhumane to make them suffer and suffer for your (and the vet's $) sake. If it were me, I'd want the same treatment.

Chemo isn’t so successful with dogs, OP. I did have a 15 year old lab/rotti/mutt who developed lymphoma and we did a series of chemo, it gave him another four months of quality time. But when he went, it was a few days and boom, I called the vet to euthanize.

Currently I’m dealing with a ten year old lab with lung cancer.. the vet said that chemo won’t work in this case. It’s heartbreaking watching my sweetie decline so rapidly. I’m teetering on calling euthanasia… no appetite and listless today. But we did have a ups delivery and there was some barking and tail wagging. Ugh. It’s difficult to decide. I’m hand feeding now.

R55, that's how old mine was... ten years (which is a bit early for a lab to go.) And lung cancer. Did your vet say it was rare as well?

My rule of thumb with dogs and cancer, is not to fuck with it, unless they're showing signs of it. Every time we tried with getting them removed, it spread the cancer and the dog passed away soon after. Same with my grandfather's dog. You wouldn't have known it had cancer, but the vet found a tumor, so he had it removed, despite us warning him that it sometimes does more harm. Dog went downhill immediately after. Every time we've taken the chance of fucking with it, that's happened, whereas we've gotten years with dogs we didn't touch.

Obviously if it's showing signs of being sick and in pain, and you have the funds, it's time to do something. I'm very sorry about it though OP. It always sucks when pets go through that.

I have Healthy Paws insurance. They indeed do pay out. I have a $500 annual deductible (not insubstantial, but not terrible), and then the rest is reimbursed at 90%. ~$30/month for my 10 y.o. cat. No total reimbursement limit. He takes allergy meds, so the insurance pays for itself very quickly.

Another one I had, ASPCA brand insurance, had like a $5000 limit on reimbursements, at 70% with a $300 annual deductible, which was gobbled up quickly when my previous cat had cancer (radiation, surgery, chemo, etc.). I chose that one because of their licensing of the ASCPA brand, but I mean it was OK but not great because much of the cancer treatment ... after the reimbursement limit, it was out-of-pocket.

The process with Healthy Paws is smooth and reimbursements take less than a week. You just send a PDF of each invoice, uploading it on their site. The only hassle is that, with the first claim, you have to get your vet to send your dog or cat's entire medical record (fax or email). It's a minor hassle, if your vet is responsive and efficient about sending that sort of thing on to the insurance companies.

[quote] instead of pursuing human-like treatments.

This^^. Active word being ‘human’. No dog should be put into chemo, it’s so narcissistic. The animal will suffer - you’ll bankrupt yourself or fuel the already messed up insurance system. Animals should not be treated like people, because they’re not people. OP donate 50% or the amount you were planning to spend on cancer treatments to a charity for children living in poverty and have the dog put down in comfort before it gets too sick.

It’s like end of days society the way people act around their pets, just delusional.

[quote] I spent $25,000 on chemo

Imagine what could have been done with that money if it was better spent.

^ Ten points for message, two for phrasing. You may need a distemper shot.

R42 on my way to the vet now :)

[quote] OP donate 50% or the amount you were planning to spend on cancer treatments to a charity for children living in poverty and have the dog put down in comfort before it gets too sick.

If you do this, OP, perhaps give it to an animal rescue instead of doing what R41 wants you to do.

How many packs a day did your dog smoke?

R28, I think you were referring to my post at r37. Yes, the vet is perplexed at his own diagnosis. Surgery would have been too risky… if we could find anyone to even try doing it. The cancer is around the heart/esophagus/and lungs.

We’ve been experiencing finicky eating episodes for six months. Bloodwork is normal. The vet is stumped and we’ve had a couple other vets examine. All the same.

Loving him up and trying to be level headed. Not easy. We’ve really only had two weeks to really deal with the news.

The vet thought the mass might not grow quickly. Unfortunately it’s gotten huge and spread dramatically in five weeks time.

[quote] perhaps give it to an animal rescue instead of doing what [R41] wants you to do.

No. Only donate to animal charities after you have donated to a charity for humans, and only in lesser amounts. R44 probably eats meat. As long as there are children going without food or shelter that need help, donating to a dog charity isn’t ethical.

Thank you, R41. OP, I hope you're reading it.

When I was a teenager, we had a 13 year old tubby cat who, although eating, was losing weight rapidly. The vet said she had a large abdominal tumor, and probably had less than a few months to live. Our plan was to leave her alone since she seem to feel okay, and put her down when she starts to get sick. Well, four months later, not only was she still feeling okay, she'd gained back all the weight she lost. The cat lived another 5 years and died of old age. I'm so glad vets didn't rush into "curing" animals who were in no pain in those days because she's have died much sooner.

With a few cats (over many years) who had diagnoses of cancer and similarly serious disease, the vets were are quite frank in their warnings: as sudden as the onset of symptoms seemed, the progression would be seem even more accelerated; surgery had about a 40 to 50% chance of success, though I would likely see a much finished level of activity and changes in behavior as well as slowing down, and that what had been the likely few years ahead might both be reduced in quality and time.

Best of luck making the hard decisions for your dog. There's no decision you're likely to be happy with or without second doubts that you did the right thing.

So sorry, OP...sending you and your dog hugs and crossing fingers and toes.

Thanks again for everyone’s thoughts. It sounds like a lot of negative experience with chemo.

Has anyone had positive or negative experiences with radiation? Our options are 18 treatments for the definitive treatment or 4 higher dose treatments of coarse fractional radiation therapy.

This thread is frau central.

OP Putting a dog through surgery, radiation and chemo is INSANE and cruel. Please don’t.

Won't go into my experience with vets concerning my dog because the fucking bitches here. I will tell you OP vets don't know a hell of a lot. My dog was not diagnosed even when I gave, later found out, a classic case of what was wrong with her. I had a dog with cancer, unfortunately they caught it too late and I had to put her down within 2 weeks of the diagnoses. You know your pet OP more than any vet will know. The sad fact is most cancer treatments only prolong, in some cases painfully, a dogs life for a short period of time. I understand your dilemma OP as I am dealing with a medical issue with my dog that a vet caused. As long as your dog is eating healthfully and still has an inquisitive mind they are worth fighting for.

OP, I know this is a difficult time, and you have my sympathies. My only piece of advice is don't put your dog through chemo. I went through it, and I wouldn't wish on anybody (actually, that's untrue... another time perhaps...). It's not just chemo, it's the side effects. Your dog will feel far worse on chemo than she would otherwise.

But that's easy to say, because I'm not her owner and you are. Good luck.

Still thinking of you OP. Reading though the posts there seems to be no “correct” decision. But despite all the sadness of watching a beloved pet go downhill, I am so grateful to have had my large dogs and a few kitties in my life.

will pray for ur dog, hope she haas long life.....

Thank you for the positive thoughts, all. The latest is we were fired by our surgeon yesterday because he claimed I was “confrontational” because I had several questions about her surgery. He seemed to want to amputate her leg versus removing the tumor.

I don’t think I was confrontational - I did not yell or raise my voice or even stand up in his presence. Nevertheless I think he was not the right vet for her. We have a consult with a surgeon at another practice tomorrow. Hopefully I don’t have a note in my chart following me around like Elaine!

GIVE MY DOGGIE THE SHOOOOOOOOOOT!

R58. Ack. You are in a sad unenviable spot.

I can’t say I’ve “been there and done that” because we never argued with our rural vet doctors.

We were so blessed to have two large dogs and a few kitties in our lives. And then we had to let them go. Awful times but filled with amazing memories. Peace and love. ❤️

TODAYS VETS $$$$$$$

god bless you and tht precious creature. the goddess is lookin over u both n o matter wht happens..

Update to those of you kind enough to send positive thoughts that she had her surgery on her leg today and it was successful.

Treating them is dreadful. They do not understand what is happening, they are miserable and confused. Is this how you want her last months to be?

That's good news. Many good wishes to you and your pet.

If I may, since some are sharing personal stories: after having pets all my life, I won't ever again and it's because of vets. Vets and vet techs have proven to be, in my experience (hope some have found great ones) unfeeling liars and often incompetent, venal and angry at how hard they had to work, I guess, for the license. After I'd brought my aging, near-feral but very sweet cat to one guy for six years, when she got cancer at age 16, he wanted me to do the full deal, with x-rays (which I got), chemo, surgery, whatever. My cat hated to even be out of the house and had ptsd of some kind. I asked him about euthanasia and he practically threw me out. I was stuck looking and looking for someone who would come to the house and finally an angel horse vet came and euthanized her. By that point she was a skeleton and died when the needle went in. I'll spare you all the other stories, but I'm thoroughly disgusted. Money-grubbers, a lot of them.

I recently had to put my Sheltie down from a liver tumor. He was somewhere between 12 and 14 years old, he was a pound truck pick up so I wasn't sure of his age. Once I found out what the problem was I decided not to treat the cancer, and let him go when he seemed to slow down worse. He never appeared to be in pain more than a couple of times. But since he's been gone I've been so relieved of all the worry about him. He had an excellent doggie life and I learned to accept that we will outlive our pets.

^ Yes. Everyone knows how this is likely to end. It is a rare pet that dies peacefully in its sleep of old age. (Happens, but you'd have better odds with Powerball.) It is a duty to see them out well.

GLAD SHE IS BETTER, MAY THE ANGELS PROTECT HER FROM PAIN, VIVA LA DOGGIE OXYCODONE....

Dear Friends, OP here to update that our dog is now cancer free and healthy! We were lucky it was a low grade tumor that could be surgically removed and then treated with radiation. During the course of diagnosis the oncologist also found a mass on her intestine but that was also successfully surgically removed. Her last ultrasound and XRay showed no signs of cancer, and her last blood work was totally normal. Thank you for everyone’s positive thoughts and good wishes.