Euro 2020: Semi final hot gossip

I'd love a Denmark v Italy final, but unfortunately I think England will beat Denmark.

I think England and Italy is the most likely.

The photo of Belotti with Lukaku looks like a still from the start of a porno

I'd wish an England v Italy final, with Pickford keeping his clean sheet. But I'm old enough to expect England to choke at the last minute. So I'm guessing Italy v Denmark.

I wanted Belgium.

I believe Italy will win it all.

Graeme Souness, bitter Scots Queen who but three weeks ago downcried the English National team as pretenders (and practically called for another Pictish-English war while he was about it), is now backing England to win the whole thing.

[quote] wish an England v Italy final, with Pickford keeping his clean sheet

Bank on it. The only sheets Jord doesn’t keep clean are mine, and that’s more than alright by me.

Don’t want to jinx anything, but—this is the third tournament semi in three years for England, which shows a marked improvement and an unprecedented result for the nation in tournament football...

🎵 Southgate you're the one, you still turn me on, football's coming home again 🎵

Well this match is a bit too tippy tappy for me.

Spain are definitely holding their own. Italy just aren't playing to the standard they set in the previous games.

The Italians diving and rolling around like they've been shot is most undignified.

As Valerie Cherish would say, I don't need to see that.

Poor Spain. I'd say they were slightly better than Italy.

He has a point.

That is some extreme product placement. He can't even get his arms on the table

R5 Belgium would have been the more interesting semi, but their leaky, rickety, geriatric defense put paid to that possibility. It’s a shame they didn’t make it, though, they had a lot else going for them and they really would have appreciated it more than than Spain or Italy.

Mourinho cautiously backs England.

I can’t express in words how much I despise Maureeniho. The way he targets players in his teams and bullies and undermines them is an absolute disgrace. At Chelsea it was Joe Cole, at Manchester United it was Luke Shaw.

So pleased to see Shaw getting the plaudits he deserves and to see him in the form we always knew he could achieve

Aw man, if Denmark doesn't win then I have to support *shudder* fucking Italy.

Counting on Italy’s speed doing them in. It is so hard to get the ball off them, but on the other side of the coin their pace means they misplace a lot of passes and can’t keep energy into extra time. It’s the only sure way to beat them without blatant interference and cheating, as far as I can tell.

A win for England, who of the three teams remaining this year have been the most vocally supportive for gay rights as well as the most homosocially and romantically expressive, would be a win for acceptance. Hendo scored his very first international goal with the rainbow laces in his boots.

Moreover, it would be a win for the finest arse in the tournament, and what could be more gay than that?

I would just love for all these people backing England (to the English media) to eat large helpings of crow tonight.

[quote](England) have been the most vocally supportive for gay rights

Are you really trying to put England's gay rights record up against Denmark?!?

Decriminalized in 1933, first national LG association in 1948, first registered partnerships in 1989, 87% gay marriage accepting....that Denmark?

Any team but England. I cannot begin to explain how awful life here will be for days and days if they win. Football fans are the worst people on the face of the planet.

R25 that is so hyperbolic. Come on, get a hold of yourself.

Tbf the economy will probably stall for a day or two if we do somehow actually win the whole thing (it has been almost sixty years coming and this18 months has been shit for national morale, let’s be fair), but winning this next game isn’t going to cause anarchic breakdown of society or any other ill ripple that majorly impacts other nations for that matter. It is just a semi, and England have been here a few times before recently, so let’s not lose our heads here one way or the other.

A lot of you are mistaking benign demonstration of emotion or tongue-in-cheek ironic expressions of pride for actual menace-to-society nationalistic ire. Fine if you don’t want England through, whatever, your choice to back who you want—but don’t spin it into a moral high ground just to prop up what is basically a meme.

[quote]I cannot begin to explain how awful life here will be for days and days if they win

Days? They're still rubbing 1966 into people's faces.

R27 Are they?

^ Have you been around any England fans?

I'm not sure that ten year old South African commercial proves your point.

The last dozen replies are proof that Americans cannot distinguish bants.

[QUOTE]Any team but England. I cannot begin to explain how awful life here will be for days and days if they win. Football fans are the worst people on the face of the planet.

Can you give an insight into your day to day life in the UK?

I just can't reconcile how England getting to Sunday's final and then winning would have any real impact - positive or negative - on anyone's day to day life, unless they are closely involved with the national football team or the players lives.

How will it change your visits to Tesco, your travelling on public transport, your meals out in restaurants, your conversations with family and friends?

^ Must be American.

Kasper Schmeichel can Get. It. He's a damn dreamboat -- and supposedly a super-nice, bright guy. I'm pulling for DEN over CHAV.

I hate that the England supporters boo the opposition's national anthem. Fucking hate it.

Ridiculous and disrespectful at r35. Truly wish Denmark wins.

Amazing goal! Well done DK

As we type Shaw is doubtless in the absolute shit in that dressing room. Just getting bollocked.

Pickford might actually stab him. Or stab himself.

I have to admit that I let out such a high pitched gasp when Sterling looked to have scored but hit Schmeichel in the gut.

An even louder noise than when England actually scored.

Whatever you think of England, you have to admit Mount, Saka, Stonesy & Walks have given stellar performances this game so far. Holding their lines and moving the ball where it should be.

Be nice if Kane could stop fucking fumbling it...

what the fuck i’m so tense?? Haven’t felt this bad since my first Pfizer

come on Jack, we need some of that tricky bastard magic babes💗

For obvious reasons I'm finding this VERY STRESSFUL

It's very emotional and nerve-wracking that's why I only care about and follow the euro and the word cup, not the national competitions.

Who's the hottest player in each team here? For me it's young Shaw from England and the sexy goalkeeper from Denmark.

NO!

YES!

KANE!

That was a soft penalty, but England has been the better team in the 2nd half. Danes have offered very little going forward. Even now as a desperate equalizer is needed, they really haven't done much. Disappointing.

Let's hope Italy shows up on Sunday.

Agree with r45 congratulations to England

Well, what have you cunts got to say now, eh? 🦁🦁🦁

Well played by Denmark, though. Emotional and honourable end to a difficult tournament for them. They played like strong upstanding men tonight. All credit.

I was hoping for Denmark... but England had more energy and were the better team from half time on. Sterling, Man of the Match. Endless energy and creative dribbling... soft penalty or not, he was always getting into the box and causing trouble.

Italy didn't look as sharp as they had against Spain. I think England could win it.

Oh man, R34, I'll say. Blonds aren't usually my type, but Kasper Schmeichel is super hot! Several cuties on England's team as well. Suddenly I'm into soccer!

England was better and deserved the victory.

After Schmeichel‘s third save I thought it just wasn’t to be. But I was wrong!

Feel sorry for Denmark. They played well and can take pride in their performance. They were everyone’s second team in this tournament and I didn’t like seeing them cry.

But England! As it’s Italy in the final I’m hoping World in Motion is revived by the crowd.

The guardian described the penalty as a calculated fall by sterling. English will never admit to diving. It is always the foreigners.

No-one ever admits to diving, R53.

R53 England was the better team today... but they are expert divers. Harry Kane crumbled like a cheap donut every time a Danish player was within inches of him. Grealish too was an expert house of cards.

[quote] English will never admit to diving. It is always the foreigners.

Oh please. Have you never seen the English fans condemn Ashley Young?

Well, I'm rooting for Italy and they are well-versed in the dark arts. England aren't going to win the game in that aspect.

[quote] Football fans are the worst people on the face of the planet.

*English* football fans are the worst people on the face of the planet.

R57, I was saying that earlier. Italy v England = dive-fest.

Some people just don't understand the ideal male body. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

Brazil-Argentina in the Copa and England-Italy in the Euros are probably the dream matchups for each tournament (I would have preferred Belgium making the final in terms of talent, but they folded early).

England finally play a real team. I hope the Italians crush them.

Denmark looked good for about 10 minutes. Not sure how they even made it to the semis. England looked very good on the other hand. Very fast and sound defense. I have a decent amount of English friends but for some reason it's hard to root for the. Not sure if it's the fan base and that constant It's Coming Home shit. I want Italy to win. I really like the joy they play with. Should be a good match.

[quote]Denmark looked good for about 10 minutes. Not sure how they even made it to the semis.

They (and England) lucked out big time with their half of the draw.

[quote]Not sure if it's the fan base and that constant It's Coming Home shit. I want Italy to win.

The fanbase, the team, the media, the whole country. Hard to stomach.

I agree, R64. There's nothing worse than people enjoying something.

^ I'll give you a pass because you've probably never been around (real) football fans. It's not something that goes away the day after like the superb owl, MBA finals or wild series, I promise you. American sports fandom can't even begin to compare. This one runs the gamut from friendly ribbing to intense hatred, family fissures, national tension and even an actual war between two countries. I don't expect you to understand because you can't.

The English media is setting up to dunk on everybody. Italy, the rest of the world is counting on you to follow the example of Julius Caesar and slap these barbarians to kingdom come.

Some of England's players are absolutely stunning.

[quote] counting on you to follow the example of Julius Caesar

Get to England, fall flat on your face, have your own side laugh at you, not really do anything worth the trip and leave? I too hope this is all Italy manage.

Woke up this morning feeling so strange. Almost blissful. Whatever happens in the final England will be there. Obviously I want them to win but they'll be there.

Seeing the response from the older players who came so close but didn't quite make it is wonderful too. It's a shame that Gary Lineker and Ian Wright can't present together during the final.

And I am enjoying the spite being directed at England. Serious LOLs that so many people hate England and wants England to lose. Well you know what? ENGLAND WON AND YOUR TEAMS DIDN'T YOU BUNCH OF TWATS. 😊😊😊

Good for England, they've played well enough this tournament.

But because they're one of my least favorite teams, it's really funny that they apparently needed a dive to get through, they who are so self-righteous about fair play, not diving, etc.

Forza Italia!

[quote] Grealish too was an expert house of cards.

Cheers, R55 bab. Thought I was only expert in footie and shagging and having the world’s most amazing body, but apparently I’ve got other hidden talents as well.

I for one cannot wait to witness Chiellini et al. dissolve into chaos, when they realise their only game-plan isn’t going to work—impossible to play mindgames against brainless chavs who by rights ought to be delivering tumbledryers for a living. All that tricksy psychology won’t have any effect on England, like water off a duck’s backside.

Chiellini and company aren't going to dissolve into chaos because they only have one game plan. Give me a break, Chiellini has seen it all. What will be a thorn is Sterling's pace, especially against old timers Chiellini and Bonucci. Of course Mancini will work out something to mitigate but a couple of Sterling breakaways could be enough to decide the game.

R45/R53 that last pen was perhaps a bit dubious in certain lights; however, context is everything here—in the first 50 minutes, the ref/VAR elected not to award at least two rightful penalties/free kicks to England and just continue play, which arguably wasn’t fair either. So it’s swings and roundabouts, innit? That night England played better (if slightly dirtier than they do customarily), and no-one disputes that. Maybe they’ve just become a little streetwise and have started standing up for themselves at long last.

R75 Because England has always been the "victim" of others' unfair treatment? Right, there's never been anything about their own lapses of nerve, brains and heart that caused them to come eye to eye with success.... and blink.

R74 I'm surprised more praise hasn't been given to Sterling - his runs into the final third were always dangerous. Other than his runs with great pace (and sometime Saka), England was mostly a boring and slow team just passing the ball around the midfield. Given England's horrendous racist anti-immigrant environment, I wonder how big a star Sterling would be if he were white.

[quote] Given England's horrendous racist anti-immigrant environment

R76 excepting about four players, almost the entire England squad this year has some degree of significant immigrant/non-English ancestry. Close to half of all the players (including subs) are either of colour, or of non-white extraction in some way. The most publicly-popular players and media darlings most lauded include POC Calvert-Lewis, Rashford, Saka, Sancho & Sterling—if you were from the U.K. and read English tabloids, you’d know that they get their flowers. Try again, or realise that the majority of Britains are not in fact foaming-mouth racists.

[quote][R74] I'm surprised more praise hasn't been given to Sterling - his runs into the final third were always dangerous. Other than his runs with great pace (and sometime Saka), England was mostly a boring and slow team just passing the ball around the midfield. Given England's horrendous racist anti-immigrant environment, I wonder how big a star Sterling would be if he were white.

Are you fucking serious? On what planet do you live your pitiful existence to think Sterling isn't getting praise?

Everyone, absolutely everyone, is praising Sterling as man of the match. The only criticism he's getting is from the anti England team who think he dived for the penalty. Kane is on the front pages of the newspapers because he scored the winning goal but Sterling has been praised to high heaven as the outstanding player for England in this tournament, the heartbeat in the team, the player of the whole tournament.

The kneeling is hilarious, Europeans truly do live under American hegemony.

^^my reply should say ‘ the majority of BritONs’, obviously.

Now, to continue dressing my altar to Boudicca!

[quote]The fanbase, the team, the media, the whole country. Hard to stomach.

It has been, but this England team and manager has drawn me back. I was turned right off by the swaggering egos of the recent so-called 'golden generation', mediocre managers, under-achievement, and crass tabloid lionisation.

Southgate has created a distinctive new aura around the national team, reflected in their play and success. He's something more than just another hired hack. For all the routine suspense, England are a pleasure to watch. This shift is lightly touched on in commentary because many of that recent generation are still around in the media and representative of failure. Yesterday's men.

Italy won't be a pushover in the final of course, but Spain could and should have seen them off before the dread of penalties. They're far from unbeatable.

R77 R78 I do read English media... junk tabloids (for amusement) and other more reputable papers. While Sterling did (and inevitably) get some praise for an astonishing performance (even in extra time he would NOT SLOW DOWN, running creatively into space), most of what I saw was "Harry Kane, Man of the Match!!" which prompted my comments. Kane had a good match, but....

And while there are reasonable and compassionate English (a few here on DL), there is still a significant anti-immigrant fanbase... Brexit is one thing ("why are all those Polish shops up on High Street!! And I don't care if you and your Jamaican parents were born in Brixton, yer not English") making monkey calls and throwing bananas.

R79 It couldn't be because they actually believed in what the kneeling means, right? It must only because of their fear of America, right? right...

My comment was meant to observe how immigrants help improve the quality of European teams. The French WC champions were 100% immigrants or the children of immigrants and it drove the National Rally people crazy.

[quote]And while there are reasonable and compassionate English (a few here on DL), there is still a significant anti-immigrant fanbase... Brexit is one thing ("why are all those Polish shops up on High Street!! And I don't care if you and your Jamaican parents were born in Brixton, yer not English") making monkey calls and throwing bananas.

Are you actually English yourself? And have you lived in the UK for long? This doesn't read like someone who has grown up in the UK.

[quote] ENGLAND WON

Did ye, aye?

R84 No, I haven't lived in the UK. Traveled there many times, constant consumer of British (and Irish) media. Lots of British friends. Graduate degree in English literature (17th century metaphysical poetry/20th century British poetry). So I know "living in UK" means so very many things. Living in council flats in the North, a fine cottage in the Cotswolds, a muti-million dollar one bedroom flat in London, an estate in Surrey, and a boho surf shack in St Ives... are not the same. Are there racists in England? Are you denying this?

I'm not denying there's racists in the UK - 18 months ago we had an election where the choice of Prime Minister was between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn, two overt racists - but your description of monkey chants and bananas thrown at Black people is clearly not something you've observed but rather read about happening decades ago.

[quote]I hate that the England supporters boo the opposition's national anthem. Fucking hate it.

How about the England supporter who decided to shine a laser-pen light in Kasper Schmeichel's eyes during the penalty kick? Truly asshole behavior. (And does Kasper need a hug? I would be happy to oblige.)

R87 already UEFA have moved swiftly to begin disciplinary proceedings, as well they should. As an England fan, I hope Kaspar is recompensed and gets a public apology. This was irresponsible and dangerous behaviour, as well as disrespectful.

Kaspar is a beloved figure in the *English* Premier League, especially close to the hearts of Leicester & Man United supporters. I know an English Leicester fan as a casual mate, who went apeshit when he saw what happened, so angry that someone would dare do something so low. This must have ashamed and worried the England squad terribly, too, Kaspar being a dear friend & colleague of some of them. Look at any news article or blog or Tweet coming out of England today, and you’ll see that this has appalled almost every football-loving Briton in the country.

But some commenters are so desperate to punish a hardworking and fair team of lads as well as slate an entire nation comprised mostly of fairly decent people, based on the actions of one single sociopathic loser (who was probably stoned out of his mind on who knows what). How is that just? How does that help the situation?

Honestly don't know how people are still insisting it wasn’t a penalty. Raheem got hipchecked hard by two bigger players in quick succession—and this is football, not ice-hockey, so that’s just not on. People have some weird idea that a penalty needs to be something that denies a goal or is obviously reckless. A penalty is just a foul in the box - that's it. Sterling was fouled twice, ergo it was a penalty.

Kane should have had a clear penalty earlier in the game that wasn't given, so no one ought to complain about the one we did get—it was right. It’s not like England have never been on the other end of such decisions—in fact, 9/10 times it’s usually England on the losing end. How about Lampsy’s ghost-goal? Sol Campbell? The Hand of God?......that's somehow allowed, because it’s against England....? One of my Dad’s worst memories of watching England decades ago had us go out after a fella literally punched the ball in past Shilton, in plain view of cameras as well as the ref, linesman and supporters. To borrow a phrase Americans are so fond of—“it just be like that, sometimes”.

Yet people are acting like the decisions in this one single game (which are the responsibility of the ref and of UEFA officials, btw, not the winning team) was an unprecedented and most heinous crime, the ultimate blemish on the sport. They conveniently forget the 21 or so fouls committed by the Danes (barely sanctioned) all through the game, while poor old Slabhead Maguire got a yellow for nothing (seriously, what did he do? Frown at the ref? His face is always like that, he can’t help it). Also the laser pointer incident, while indefensibly horrible and potentially injurious, ultimately didn’t actually hurt Kaspar (thank goodness) or affect anything gamewise—Schmeichel wasn’t definitely going to save the rebound had that not happened, and his play afterward was fine. And anyway, tactically Denmark put themselves in a vulnerable position all game, by sitting 10 behind the ball; because of that congestion on their part, England were always going to have action in their box that threatened their lead and forced them do a few desperate things. That’s just how competitive football is played these days.

If you want to talk about ‘fair’, then it has to go for everybody and not just teams you like and support. For instance, arguably Denmark should never have got the corner against Czech Republic that led to their first goal and their going through to the next round. Last night, Denmark dived for a free kick or seven, but nobody batted an eye and no English complained. And last year, Denmark were jeering and rubbing it in after they earned a blatantly silly penalty against England in the Nations League. If you can’t take it once in a while (and England have been taking it patiently for many many long years), then don’t dish it out.

[quote] How about the England supporter who decided to shine a laser-pen light in Kasper Schmeichel's eyes during the penalty kick? Truly asshole behavior.

Firstly English dickhead supporters aren’t assholes, they’re arseholes. Secondly it’s not a penalty kick, it’s just a penalty.

And no doubt the police are going through the multiple camera footage of the crowds at Wembley trying to identify the culprit. I hope he gets a fine and banned from football matches for 5 years:

R86 A lot has been done to try to stop the explicit racism... and yes it's my memory of several years ago... I remember that spectacular black Italian player who got bananas thrown at him regularly.

But I'm not sure what were arguing about...

As recently as 2018:

R82 You don’t know what you’re talking about. Truly.

The UK is more tolerant of immigration than any other major European nation (see link). We have more people of colour in our government than almost any other nation on Earth. After the PM the most senior ministers are the Chancellor and the Home Secretary...both of colour. And most people are expecting our next PM to be Rishi Sunak - that he’d be our first PM of colour will escape most people’s attention until it’s piinted out. We just don’t care.

A recent commision on racial disparity (8 commisioners, 7 of whom were black) decided that race is not a oarticularly significant factor in disparity..class, economics and geography are far more significant. Black and Asian people are more likely to go to university than white people, they also do better at school. 10% of all couples in the UK are mixed race, and bi-racial is the fastest growing ethnicity. These are statistics that your country can only dream about.

Ae there racists in the UK? Yes, of course...but they are so massively outnumbered that they can’t get a foothold anywhere. Every time some straggly band of right-wingers tries to march or protest they find themselves hugely outnumbered by a larger group who show up to jeer at them and shout them down.

We are not a racist nation. Our monarchy is not racist & neither is our press. Somehow, Britain has become the punching bag of the world, and we don’t deserve it...certainly not from America - a nation that was founded on perhaps the greatest act of genocide in human history and remains, I am sorry to say, the most racist nation in the world.

So take the splinter out of your own damn eye before casting aspersions against others.

Oh, and the teport into “racist Britain”.

R92 Ha, enlightened discourse at its best: "truly, you don't know what you're talking about"

I appreciate the reports on racial progress in the UK, thanks. Critical Race Theory a l'anglaise.

Our conversation was about football fans and coverage of football (hence this thread). And in no way was I comparing the UK to the US (or any other country). The US with our Original Sin of slavery, can never be a measure of racial progress. However, have you seen the five films by Steve McQueen together named Small Axe... I'd be interested in hearing your argument made to him.

That being said... I hope England wins on Sunday, it'd be more interesting than Italy for all the drama afterward.

I'm not sure a Greek Cypriot throwing a banana skin on the pitch proves anything.

R95 Fookin' immigrants.

[quote]The kneeling is hilarious, Europeans truly do live under American hegemony.

Literally, everything that happens in the US gets copied in the UK. Everything. Look at their popular music. Many of Britains most famous albums are sung in an American accent. Brits constantly appropriate all genres of American music including soul and hip hop.

Another thing is black Brits have no real role models in Britain because inadvertently alluded to in r92, whiteness is the standard all aspire to and 99% of black British celebrities try to assimilate to whiteness the instant they make it. The default partner of a famous black British person is white so usually, the blackness gets bred out by the third generation. It's a sensitive topic, but true.

Have those people at r93 ever even heard of Colin Kaepernick? If Kaep was British, he'd have a white wife and be trying to fit in.

[quote] I remember that spectacular black Italian player who got bananas thrown at him regularly.

The spectacular black Italian player (so spectacular you can't remember his name) is Mario Balotelli, who played in England for 4 years. All of the stories widely reported about the racist abuse he has received during his career are from his time playing in his home country and representing his country at the Euros in 2012.

Can you find me once incident of a banana being thrown at Balotelli when he was playing for Manchester City or Liverpool, let alone "regular" incidents?

There was an incident of a banana being thrown at a Arsenals Aubameyang a couple of years ago and it made headlines in the UK because it was newsworthy, because it was such a rare incident.

[quote]The Arsenal players were “goading” the away fans with their celebrations, the lawyer argued. Panteli did not bring the banana to the match himself and was sober, she said. He was not charged with a racist offence, Rasool said, claiming that police had accepted his account. She said Panteli was from a large Greek Cypriot family and had a son-in-law who was mixed race.

Averof Panteli is a typical English fan. Hates immigrants.

[quote]Another thing is black Brits have no real role models in Britain because inadvertently alluded to in [R92], whiteness is the standard all aspire to and 99% of black British celebrities try to assimilate to whiteness the instant they make it. The default partner of a famous black British person is white so usually, the blackness gets bred out by the third generation. It's a sensitive topic, but true.

Oh fuck off you white supremacist cunt.

[quote]Look at their popular music. Many of Britains most famous albums are sung in an American accent.

That very old theory has long since been debunked.

England supporters, it's not that we think the game is 100% fair all the time (though VAR has improved it a lot), it's that brushing Sterling with your shin or hip is, according to consensus opinion, not a penalty and didn't lead to Sterling's fall--he took a nice dive. Good on him for helping get his team through, but still funny.

Enjoy it, though. Maybe your beloved lads will bring football home. And if Italy prove to be the better team (whether football-wise or game/tournament-managment-wise), then at least you'll always have that soul-soothing 2 nil against Germany.

What would you prefer, R97? That black Brits stick to their “kind”?

You bigoted piece of shit.

Engerland is the Millwall of Europe.

[quote]And no doubt the police are going through the multiple camera footage of the crowds at Wembley trying to identify the culprit. I hope he gets a fine and banned from football matches for 5 years

Named, shamed, and banned for life.

R105 I’ve heard it said England are the Tottenham of Europe.

Back when England were knocked out of Euro 2016 in the round of sixteen by Iceland (having left the World Cup without winning a single game two years earlier), immigration was suggested as a factor in the decline. The BBC (not exactly a right-wing rag) published an article pointing out that kids of immigrants used English training facilities, but then went on to play for their home countries as adults. I think we can safely say that argument has been debunked now. It's far likelier to be about management. Who would you want motivating you: Gareth Southgate or this man?

[quote]he BBC (not exactly a right-wing rag) published an article pointing out that kids of immigrants used English training facilities, but then went on to play for their home countries as adults.

Can you provide a link?

There are lots of instances of this happening, but only when the players aren't good enough to make the England team.

The Welsh team that got to the semi finals in Euro 2016 was full of English players who qualified to play for Wales because their nan once went to the bingo in Llandudno.

All 3 goal scorers in Wales' victory over Belgium would have been playing for England if they had been better players.

Ashley Williams:

[quote]Williams qualifies for the Wales national team through his maternal grandfather Bill Rowlands from Gelli, Rhondda.

Hal Robson Kanu

[quote]Robson-Kanu was born in England to a Nigerian father, and an English mother of Welsh descent. Robson-Kanu initially represented England at international level,

Sam Vokes:

[quote]Born and brought up in England, Vokes is eligible to represent Wales through a grandfather born in Colwyn Bay. He did not know he was eligible for Wales until manager Brian Flynn called him up to the Welsh under-21 team.

Yeah, immigrant kids tend to play for the country that is strongest and likely to participate in (and have a chance to win) tournaments. Mesut Ozil plays for Germany not Turkey. Zidane played for France not Algeria. Usually it's when players aren't good enough for their birth country, then they reach out for alternatives. The USA team 20-30 years ago had players who were born, say, Germany (German mom, American soldier dad) who played for the US. If they were world class players, they would have been playing for Germany.

Same with the Irish team. A good chunk of their players over the years, were born and raised elsewhere, mainly, England but qualified through an Irish parent or grandparent. If they were really good, they likely would have been playing for England. One of the better know exception is Ryan Giggs who could have played for England but chose to represent Wales. Giggs, obviously, was good enough to make the English squad.

R107 Grealish could have played for Ireland. Thank fuck he didn’t.

Strike the part about Giggs, turns out the rule change that would have allowed him to play for England happened AFTER he played for Wales senior team.

R108 - I've searched for a link but I can't find it. I definitely remember reading it at the time, though, and I'm sure it was the BBC.

Ryan Giggs is Welsh. He was born in Wales to Welsh parents (his father was a rugby player) and his family moved to England where he grew up.. He never felt English and never wanted to play for England.

Michael Owen is English. He was born in England to English parents (his father was a footballer) and his family moved to Wales. where he grew up. He never felt Welsh and never wanted to play for Wales.

[quote][R108] - I've searched for a link but I can't find it. I definitely remember reading it at the time, though, and I'm sure it was the BBC.

Can you remember any of the footballers they cited as examples of immigrant kids who go on to play for other national teams?

Alan McLoughlin, who sadly died recently, was called up to the England B and Ireland B teams and chose the latter because of what it meant to his mother. During the Jack Charlton (RIP) era, the 'grandfather' rule was exploited to strengthen the team generally, but the very best Irish players have been Irish-born: Liam Brady, Paul McGrath, Roy Keane, Ronnie Whelan, Liam 'Bill' Whelan, who died in the Munich air crash, Pat Jennings and George Best (Northern Ireland).

I'm just curious. Is the Brexit and Boris Johnson/Tories government an indication of more bigots than one is willing to admit live in the UK? Or will the claim be that those who voted for that/them are not bigots but merely ignorant and were tricked?

Back to football. I think that England has a very good chance of defeating Italy. I think Spain would have been a tougher opponent.

[quote]I'm just curious. Is the Brexit and Boris Johnson/Tories government an indication of more bigots than one is willing to admit live in the UK? Or will the claim be that those who voted for that/them are not bigots but merely ignorant and were tricked?

The Home Secretary is a British Indian. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is a British Indian. The Health Secretary is a British Pakistani. The minister in charge of the vaccine programme is a British Iraqi. The Business Secretary is a British Ghanian. Britain's president for COP26 and who attends government cabinet is a British Indian. The minister for Africa is a British Sierra Leonean.

If you don't like dark skinned foreigners why would you vote Tory?

R117 I'm simply asking. I live in the States. I think that Trumps presidency really showed how much of the population are bigots. They've always been there. It's just that the light was more prominently put on them. We also having an increasing number of multi ethnic and now gay/transgender people taking positions in office. It doesn't mean that the number or bigots have decreased though.

[quote] Who would you want motivating you: Gareth Southgate or this man?

What’s wrong with Hodgson? He’s a great guy.

Talk like this is why no one likes you.

Expect more of this.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Noted Welsh homosexual rugby referee Nigel Owens has written an article for Wales' premier news outlet, headlined "Nigel Owens column: I'm Welsh before British and it's fine to support England, but don't tell me I should". It's a shame they couldn't find a decent sub editor for it.

If England win Euro 2020, I think it's safe to assume we won't be hearing the end of it any time soon.

But, let's be honest, if Wales had made it to the final stages of the tournament, we'd be shouting about it from the rooftops, too, and for many years to come, that's for sure.

The passion that people hold in their hearts for their chosen sport: that's what makes the occasion, creates an atmosphere, and is ultimately why sport is so special - passion gives us the theatre and drama.

But we would do well to refrain from letting our passion spill over, to polarising effect.

A big topic of debate in Wales is whether we, as England's neighbours, should feel compelled, obligated or inclined to support Gareth Southgate's men as they charge into Sunday's final against Italy at Wembley.

I think the whole point of that is, it’s down to people’s individual and personal choice.

Personally, if England win, great. If they lose, so be it. I won’t be drowning my sorrows if they lose and I won’t be jumping up and down if they win. But the best of luck to them, I say.

If any of our neighbouring countries - Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, England - were playing in a competition against one of the other sides in the Euros, then I’d be supporting one of the British Isles countries before somebody else, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to be jumping up and down.

When England were playing Germany, not that I was really too fussed who won, but I think I’d be supporting England before I supported Germany I think. The only reason I would have supported Germany or another team against England is if I had a reason to do so. Their style of football, a friend playing for them, maybe. I certainly would not be supporting a team because I was doing so just to see the other team lose. I'd support a team because for whatever reason I wanted them to win.

Continued...

That’s nothing against the Germans, but England are our neighbours.

I am not for one minute trying to influence others' decisions - I am just letting you know where I stand.

But what disappoints me about this topic of discussion is seeing extreme views and nastiness come to the fore, on social media in particular, when somebody exercises their choice to either support or not support England at Euro 2020.

People seem to have a total lack of respect of people’s different views and opinions, and what disappoints me is the lack of respect and the tone of their language in doing so.

Sport brings out our passion for the team we support but keep it respectful.

I saw people calling out others on social media last week, saying ‘you should be ashamed of yourself as a Welshman supporting England’ and ‘typical, somebody who bows the knee in front of the Queen for an MBE or OBE supporting England … you should be ashamed of yourself.’

If you want to support England, good, carry on. If you don’t, then don’t support them.

But don’t have a go at people who support them, and don’t have a go at people who don’t.

There are too many cases of extreme, polarising opinions these days - what happened to respecting other people's opinion?

Some of my best friends are English. How many of us have best friends, partners, wives, husbands, family members, people we work with or for are English, or any other nationality?

Everybody is entitled to support whoever they want.

We shouldn’t be told who to support, though. I'm a firm believer of that.

I would totally disagree with anyone telling me I’m Welsh and therefore I should be supporting my neighbours England.

If you don’t want to support England, that’s fine and you have to respect that.

Don’t have a go at people who want to support England either.

Nobody in Wales should be told they should be supporting England, and in the same breath, neither should any of us be telling people they shouldn't be supporting them either.

If a Welshman wants to support England and wants to be part of the UK, or fly the Union Jack, then carry on. If somebody doesn’t want to fly it and doesn’t want to support England, fine. But be respectful about different opinions, I say.

Personally, I wouldn’t fly the Union Jack outside my house. My flag is the Welsh flag, but I’ve got nothing against the Union Jack flag.

But if they are going to fly it anywhere in Wales, then they should get the Welsh flag or something on it that represents Wales.

I’m Welsh before I’m anything else, before I’m British, but I count myself British as well. I support the British and Irish Lions, of course, so I definitely consider myself British.

It's a little bit different when it comes to rugby. You don't hear so much criticism of fans supporting another home nations team.

In rugby, there is a bit more of that value respect, I think.

Rugby can’t always take the moral high ground, but you just have to look at the stadiums - you go and watch a rugby match, you sit next door to opposition supporters and have a pint with them.

In football, that still doesn’t happen.

I’ve been in rugby stadiums and seen people spilling over into fighting, and having to be escorted from the ground, so it does happen in rugby but not to the extent it happens in football.

It happens in rugby as well, so let’s not take the moral high ground. But in the majority of occasions, people can sit and watch a game together in that friendly, family environment.

Like many, I'm sure, I will always be Welsh first, before anything else.

My language is more important to me than anything else and I will fight to the death to keep my language - my first language is Welsh and I will do all I can for the growth and survival of the Welsh language, and I will call out anyone who talk down about our language.

But it works both ways.

I want people to respect my language and culture. Therefore, I also respect that English is England’s first language in their country and culture and everything.

Have respect for people’s different views, whether it’s because someone in Wales is supporting England, or speaking about whether they believe in the UK. If you do or don’t believe in it, then have a conversation with respect.

I hear people say say ‘I’m Welsh and European’ - fine, carry on. It’s not an issue whatsoever, but don’t call out people who call themselves British.

I've previously received criticism for having the MBE, being reminded of the cruelty of the British empire, but you can talk about the cruelty of many people centuries and centuries ago. Times have changed now. Things are different now.

We learn from our history. It’s important we don’t forget history because that’s what makes us better people in the future, so we don’t go back to those times of centuries gone by.

There is a shared history between Wales and England. And in centuries gone by, it was a very cruel one too.

When Wales play England in rugby, there’s nobody more passionate about beating England as a Welsh rugby supporter than me but it’s done with a bit of respect for the opposition and not the undercurrent of nastiness you see with people today.

The sporting rivalry, the history between our countries going back centuries is something we won’t forget, and something that drives the passion in us as Welsh people.

I expect the English people to respect me as a Welshman, respect my language, my culture, my history, and I think we should be doing the same - respecting their culture and history.

We have to move on from the times gone past in centuries gone by when the world was a different place in countries all over the world.

A much more modern societal trend has left me puzzled.

Now, don't for one minute think I am saying there is a problem with Welsh people supporting Premier League clubs, or any English club for that matter.

But what I don't understand are people who are so anti-English, who will call others out for speaking English, or call you out for having an MBE or an OBE, they’ll call you out if you support England, for putting an English tweet out - even though I tweet in Welsh very often, too - but then they support Arsenal or Chelsea or Manchester United or Spurs.

They’re so passionate about those English teams they support - featuring England players - and then some of them will even support Man Utd if they’re playing against Swansea or Cardiff.

And yet they may call people out for supporting England against Germany, for example. Some will say 'look how the English treated us in the past, no way am I supporting England'.

I don’t understand that. I can’t get around my head around why somebody would criticise people for supporting England, and yet they are die-hard mad Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs or Chelsea supporters.

That’s their choice, of course, and I certainly wouldn’t call them out for supporting Chelsea before they support a Welsh team.

But they're quick enough to call other people out. Maybe some readers can enlighten me as to why this may be.

Let me make it perfectly clear, it doesn’t bother me one bit if you want to support Liverpool. If you’re Swansea born and bred, for example, but you’re a Liverpool or Man Utd supporter and you’re supporting Man Utd when they play Swansea even though you count yourself as a Welshman first, then that’s fine.

What I don’t understand is the ones who call out people for supporting England against Germany, and yet will support Liverpool or Man Utd ahead of supporting their own town, Swansea.

I can’t get my head around that mentality.

As for England's Euro 2020 final with Italy, all the best to them. If they go on to win, great.

It’s no skin off my nose either way. Best of luck to them, and if they win, w09:18 10/07/202ell done them. If they lost, I wouldn’t be crying. If they win, I won’t be jumping up and down either.

May the best team win.

If they do win, you won’t hear the end of it for a long, long time!

R122 bore da, fy annwyl! Mae eich ymateb yn fendigedig :) Rwy'n dysgu siarad Cymraeg - a allwch chi argymell adnodd neu ddull dysgu defnyddiol?

All you wrote is very relatable. I consider myself ‘Wenglish’ I.e. English from Welsh ancestry (a controversial identification, in itself), follow Welsh traditional/Pagan faith practise, and currently live in Wales, and I agree with almost everything you say. While I adore the Welsh people & culture and love living here for the most part, I must say I have sometimes encountered a suprising degree of hostility and xenophobia from the native Welsh toward the English. I am often careful not to advertise my ‘Englishness’ when out and about, because I don’t want to draw ire or negative attention—there will certainly be no flag flying and no raucous celebration out of doors at my place on Sunday, thrilled as I am that England have come so far and excited by big football matches as I get. It’s a shame to feel I can’t share my joy. Both me and my sister (who lives here too) have been recipients of anti-English rhetoric in public, at work and at school and out in town; we brush it off and don’t react, aware that we are guests in this country as well as representatives of England (whether we like it or not).

Though I can understand the bitterness and frustration of Welsh natives, especially where perceived cultural erosion is concerned, and when English bullishness becomes obnoxious. The full-blood Welsh are a small population of proud and protective people, with a rich culture that needs support. If our positions were switched, I wouldn’t want to hear or see a constant steam of nationalistic sentiment coming from my former oppressor, either.

Still, for a slightly sour taste to spill over into outright antipathy and invective because of what is written on someone’s passport and what happened a few hundred or thousand years ago is a bit extreme, and unproductive since we are neighbours who have lived in peace for quite some time as you mention.

If it were up to me, I’d have the history & legends of England & Wales taught more extensively in schools of both nations, to foster more sympathy on both sides. The subject is fascinating, and I believe that it would help strengthen a secureness of identity in both peoples that would foster peaceful relations. The last thing we need is a future civil war, and unfortunately sports can sometimes stand in as an early-warning proxy for such conflicts. There isn’t any call for us to despise one another, now.

Your support for the England squad is admirable, as was Wales’ performance this year (cut short all too soon, imo). Whatever happens on the weekend, both sides have done well, and have excellently represented the sport of our island.

I didn't write the article - it was written by Nigel Owens, the famous Welsh rugby referee who is a practicing homosexual with a much younger boyfriend .

The article was awful. It manages to highlight both the inferiority and superiority complexes that many nationalists have - be they Welsh, Scottish or English.

The article epitomises the phrase 'Welsh Windbag.' Obvious, boring, repetitive and provincial. The worst article I've ever seen on DL: I expect so much more from a homosexual with keyboard access.

Nigel Owens really is a provincial bore. He's talked about how hard it was to come to terms with being gay, that he wanted to be castrated and tried to kill himself because of it. It's all linked to his identity as Welsh, because he's so tied in with whatever Welshness is that he didn't think being gay and Welsh was compatible.

The Dafydd character in Little Britain was based on Brian Dowling in Big Brother but Nigel Owens has the same mentality.

And ultimately Nigel Owens' version of Welshness is very different from the Welshness you'll find in the multi ethnic parts of Cardiff where Yemenis, Italians, Nigerians and Jamaicans have lived alongside each other for generations.

"practicing homosexual"??? wtf, is it the 1890s? What is a "non-practicing" homosexual? the Pope?

My own affinities lead me to support the USMT (and USWT - consistently the best in the world) and although the US's great rival, I always like Mexico if they are playing anyone other than the US. Scotland, Northern Ireland, Ireland for "heritage" reasons. Iceland, Denmark for travel/work reasons. Croatia for style/the flag is medieval reasons.

But I am half English blood (through Mayflower and Jamestown colony) and yet resist an attachment to England. So, in this convoluted American way I confess.... I am pulling for England tomorrow. Weird.

Just don't be obnoxious if you win.

Waistcoat couldn’t take it any longer, he mentioned The War.

[quote] Just don't be obnoxious if you win.

Bless your heart!

[quote]Waistcoat couldn’t take it any longer, he mentioned The War.

People have been shocked to learn that other European countries reference The War.

When Holland won the Euros in 1988, beating Germany in the semi finals, they really celebrated

[quote]Nine million people, some 60% of the Dutch population, spilled onto the streets to celebrate - the largest public gathering since the Liberation. "In 1940 they came! In 1988 we came," they sang. In Amsterdam, people threw bicycles into the air and shouted "we've got our bikes back". The Germans had confiscated all Dutch bicycles during their occupation in the Second World War. "Revenge" was Michels's reaction.

I'm a practising homosexual, and I'll keep practising until I'm perfect at it. Until then, it's a never-ending parade of cock.

For R126's unanswered question: Duolingo's Welsh course will give you a well-structured spine to build out your knowledge of spoken Welsh, and it is based on the DysguCymraeg courses A1 and A2. I used it myself a couple of years back to brush up on my spoken Welsh (I'm born and raised in Wales, but haven't lived there for decades, and am quite rusty). There are also some good links from the gov.wales website.

Pob lwc!

[quote]Waistcoat couldn’t take it any longer, he mentioned The War.

Waistcoat is indeed edging into national guru status with his memos of mystical inspiration. This morning the BBC broadcast an actor reading Gareth's pre-tournament speech, as though it was Henry V before Agincourt.

No complaints from me. If Gareth can shift the crass culture of football away from embedded chav triumphalism, he'll have done a good day's work, and have earned that Knighthood.

[quote]No complaints from me. If Gareth can shift the crass culture of football away from embedded chav triumphalism, he'll have done a good day's work, and have earned that Knighthood.

Oh fuck off you elitist snob.

If you saw any of the England team out and about with their friends and family you'd sneer at them and call them chavs and assume the worst about them, despite their ability to earn more in a week than you'll ever earn in a year.

I understand that Princes William and Frederick had a bet and William got to raw dog Prince Christian when England won

Her Maj says it's coming home.

10 hours to kick off.

It’s coming home!

Look at the queen tweeting lion emojis! How cute is she?

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 IT’S COMING HOME🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

^ Not sure where that black flag came from...hope it”s not a sign.

Vaffanculo, inglesi schifosi. Forza Italia. 🇭🇺

Forza Italia!!! 🇮🇹 🇪🇺

(and congratulations to Argentina 🇦🇷 for the American Cup today)

R143 & 144 Bigoted cunt who doesn’t know the difference between Europe & the European Union.

r136 Money and fame can't buy you class and moral consciousness, being educated (which most in the upper classes never were, but anyways), social responsibility, tolerance and other things.

r89 Just stop it; to even pretend it was a penalty is despicable, even more so one in an important game at a close score with some time left in the game. And the constant diving and fishing for penalties and free kicks and yellow and partially also red cards, partially also through this diving, of the English team is absolutely despicable and far away from any fair play and any alleged Englische Härte. Schmeichel was blinded by fans as well, and if there weren't the safety concerns for the referee team, one could clearly say that it is absolutely inexcusable to give this penalty. And another victory for populism, which is of course also great for the queer community and human rights and democracy in general; of course there are close to no people relying on social security on dl, but also great for them. And those rich and/or privileged assholes who support populism of course care so much about the people; idiocy.

Poor Mary at R146 has run out of valium.

HUGS FOR MARY.

[quote]even more so one in an important game at a close score with some time left in the game.

What the fuck does this even mean!?!??!? "A close score?" It was 1-1. The football term for that is a "draw".

" and if there weren't the safety concerns for the referee team, one could clearly say that it is absolutely inexcusable to give this penalty" So why did the referee award the Danish team a free kick for the softest of fouls from which they scored?

I'm laughing so much at the expert game analysis from Americans who know nothing about England, nothing about Britain, nothing about Europe and nothing about football.

Not to politicize things in a world that is already too politicized.... BUT it was interesting and gratifying yesterday to see the Brazil-Argentina match yesterday. There was a subtext in the game where a significant number of the Brazilian players were supporters of Bolzonaro and the evangelical Christian Nationalists in Brazil who support Bolzonaro in the way that they support Trump in the US. It was gratifying to see Argentina win... not just for "finally Messi" reasons.

So, England, now the home of Brexit, anti-Europe, anti-cooperation, pro-jingoistic nationalism will be on the field. Yep, R144 it will be like England against the world...

Not to politicize things, but....

[quote]So, England, now the home of Brexit, anti-Europe, anti-cooperation, pro-jingoistic nationalism will be on the field. Yep, [R144] it will be like England against the world...

You're not European are you?

R149 You're not British, you're English, right?

England = Brexit. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland = European.

This will not end well tonight, and I don’t just mean for this guy. Win or lose, it’s going to be carnage.

[QUOTE]England = Brexit. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland = European.

And you don't even know that Wales voted to leave the European Union.

It must be a sad life to want a team full of young black and mixed race working class men who have used their platform to support gay rights, enhanced benefits for the poorest in society to lose because of your political ideology.

R152 Wales voted 50/50, but if you did into the demographics... "true Welsh" voted remain. Europeans consider Wales as a "remain nation"....

I actually am marginally hoping England wins. But I think you can't deny that most of the world hope they lose.

[quote][R152] Wales voted 50/50, but if you did into the demographics... "true Welsh" voted remain. Europeans consider Wales as a "remain nation"....

Are you smoking crack in your trailer park right now?

Wales voted 52/48. I know because I campaigned for Remain in Wales during the referendum campaign. The idea that there are people who are "true Welsh" is white supremacist bullshit. The only parts of Wales who voted to Remain is the multi cultural university city of Cardiff and the Vale, awash with English students, and small areas on the west coast.

It's not that surprising that Americans from the Trump supporting gun toting anti vaccine America would like to see the Italian football team win with its long standing links to fascist organisations rather than a team made up with several black and mixed race players.

R154 Calm down, it's just the fucking internet. 52-48 is 50-50 in broad terms. I do remember some analysis of Welsh voters who had "longer roots" and "welsh national identities" matching their Scot cousins in support for Remain. Is that white supremacist to try to understand how people think, and why?

You must acknowledge the heritage of pretty disgusting English hooligan fans... which color some of these responses now. You can't simply dismiss your history. That being said, yes, this team is different. I am pulling for it today.

[quote]Is that white supremacist to try to understand how people think, and why?

""longer roots" and "welsh national identities" is a racist term yes. Because it excludes the people with African and Asian heritage who have lived in Wales for generations yet will never be considered "true" Welsh because of their skin colour.

You really have to ask if "longer roots" is a racist term! Fucking hell.

You want to "win" , so go ahead and win. You get the prize.

Disaggregating votes, understand how people choose positions, what is behind those choices, including documenting trends with ethnicity, class etc. is in fact Critical Race Theory. You simply want another argument....

[quote]You want to "win" , so go ahead and win. You get the prize. Disaggregating votes, understand how people choose positions, what is behind those choices, including documenting trends with ethnicity, class etc. is in fact Critical Race Theory. You simply want another argument....

Are you on drugs as well?

IT'S A FUCKING FOOTBALL MATCH.

Hey Gammon No. 1, you should get off DL and go throw some chairs. You’re missing all the antisocial behavior of your peers!

Like r155 says this is a great multicultural team and most people love them a lot. But it's the obnoxious entitlement of the English fans that is so disgusting that no one but yourselves can support it. I wish you the best but hope Italy to wins.

r159, "Gammon" is a racist term, referring to skin colour.

You've just outed yourself as a racist.

Why don't YOU get off DL, you fucking filthy racist?

[quote]Like [R155] says this is a great multicultural team and most people love them a lot. But it's the obnoxious entitlement of the English fans that is so disgusting that no one but yourselves can support it. I wish you the best but hope Italy to wins.

"I'm supporting Italy because they have nicer fans" can only be written by someone with NO KNOWLEDGE OF FOOTBALL.

R155, I want Italy to win but even I know that the Italian fans can be a little difficult. I only follow rugby.

Oops! R163 here. I meant r160 not r155.

[quote][R155], I want Italy to win but even I know that the Italian fans can be a little difficult. I only follow rugby.

"A little difficult",

"A little difficult"

"A little difficult"

"A little difficult"

"A little difficult"

I wish Denmark had won.

Me too r170! They had the hottest players :-) but Your Highness the Princess r162 believes that one needs a PhD in Sports to express my feelings regarding football teams here on Datalounge!

R165, I used a little difficult in the same way I might say it is a tad wet outside when it is absolutely pissing down.

Good luck England!

[quote] “Gammon" is a racist term, referring to skin colour.

White people can’t be the victims of racism, honky.

Do the people who were defending England on this thread now understand why they're so hated by the rest of Europe and the World?

R92 Change takes so long, eh?

Shut up, R175.

[quote] Shut up, [R175].

I take it then that the answer to his question. Is “no.”

Just like you, R178, that person has spent an inordinate amount of time trolling this thread. The only sensible response is shut up.

R179, neglecting to kiss England’s ass is hardly “trolling.” And football threads here are inevitably made up of only a few posters. Sadly, we’re a long way from the “Footballers in Love” series.

R180 the first spate of Footballers In Love threads were so dear to my heart. Blissfully analysing Premier League players who seemed *very close* (Gerlonso!), speculating on the closet cases in World Cups, taking apart managers and players we thought were phobic. Then after a couple of years it became some sort of weird boring circlejerk only about La Liga and Shakira, and stopped being interesting.

What's the tenor in the English press now? Is it all respectful "well done, lads, thanks for the memories"?

I think Southgate should be tarred and feathered for the terrible choices. Or were the more veteran players too cowardly to step up?

[quote] the first spate of Footballers In Love threads were so dear to my heart

Wasn’t that fun? I wonder where all those footie-loving DLers went.

On a lighter note ...

BREAKING NEWS: Jack Grealish ponders offer to succeed Daniel Craig as James Bond!

R184 impossible. He can barely manage a simple conversation or presser, for which he has prompts and has been intensively coached how to respond and react; how can he cope with actually having to learn lines of a long script on his own initiative, and remember them on cue as well as give them psychological and emotional heft?

Also, a man who can’t hold and use a biro pen right isn’t going to do well with large and complex firearms or tricky gadgets.

Just facts. I love Jack and want him to do well, and not have to deal with the horrible complicated world of the smart uggos. He must be protected from his own poor choices and ego decisions.

I can't help but wonder if Jack will end up like some combination of Gazza and Ozzy. I'm sure the tabloids sense lurid promise from him, in that squad of the otherwise pleasingly woke.