UNC board approves tenure for journalist Nikole Hannah-Jones after uproar over inaction on job protection

About time!

Why on earth would she want to teach at that racially hostile backwater shithole? Let them fester in their own filth.

Notice how when her lawyers wanted to subpoena documents related to the decision they folded. There is documented orders to deny her specifically just because, which is illegal. This action proves it. They don't want anyone to see it.

Maybe,just maybe shes not qualified ? As we all know,you can have a stack of degrees and still be a stupid asshole. So they only gave her tenure to shut her up,now everyone who didnt get tenure is going to hate her fucking guts . Wont that be a rather hostile environment ? Bet you that every little thing that annoys her will have her screaming "I'll sue!"

“now everyone who didnt get tenure is going to hate her fucking guts”

This is a special position there is no everyone else. She was recruited for a specific chair. Stop making stuff up.

This is a public school.

The right-wing donors there have been making inroads on personally running the school. A public school.

Her being denied tenure had nothing to do with her credentials, as we all now know.

It had to do with donors and the GOP being against the 1619 Project.

They are the thought police

The other professors should be outraged she was granted tenure and resign but they won’t. It isn’t easy to get tenure, and it is ALWAYS political, in some sense. Her 1619 project has faced criticism from historians on the left as well as the right, though no one ever talks about the left leaning critics. It is not up to the academic standards that other professors, regardless of race, are held to. This is different from when Wake hired Maya Angelou because she had an entire body of well respected work behind her.

R8: Christ you're fake. All projects have critics, there is no "perfect" academic work. The fact is, the 1619 Project is a fine academic work. Her denial was arbitrary and political, end of story. R5 is correct, this position was different than other academic positions and the terms of tenure were different.

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. I must ask you now to sit down, shut up, and stop wasting this thread's time.

R8, oh please stop.

The vast majority of the criticism was from the right because the right doesn't want it publicized that whites can be racist. She was denied tenure SOLELY because of her support of 1619 and had nothing to do with her strong output as a journalist.

When the political right has made something into the boogeyman and a school's funding is based what the right wing politicians think of you, you fall right into line.

The right leaders of NC have gone after Chapel Smell since...forever.

R9 R10

Maya Angelou was a drunk.

She said she'd hole up in a suite at the Adam's Mark in Gboro and drink her Maker's Mark and write.

As my mentor said, "If your work gets no criticism, it is because you are just repeating what everyone else already thinks."

R2 called it (sort of). Her statement on refusing the position is a work of art.

It really is amazing how DLers will so instinctively believe that someone like her is in the wrong before they get all of the facts and see *who* precisely is behind the demonization of her.

UNC's loss is Howard's gain. She is in fact a very intelligent woman and if you want to keep thinking people like her are the problem rather than conservative whites who are simply ignorant, pathetic, inferior and cowardly, then by all means, keep going down that route. Watch the country go to shit because you want the status quo of ignorance maintained. It's why millions of people gravitated to an imbecile like Trump.

She can replace Phylicia Rashad.

This is sort of a confusing story to begin with. I work at a university and I had never heard of a tenured position without the normal requirements for earning tenure. I frankly don't understand why they do this. To make it easier for unqualified people to earn a status that takes everyone else many years of education and work? Not to take anything away from the person in question - apparent there have always been double standards for the position.

R19, if you look at how it was handled prior to her, then you understand that she was specifically targeted and by whom and why.

I do understand that they handed tenure to plenty of bozos before they denied her. I just don't understand how they got started doing that in the first place.

I mean, the only thing that makes sense is that they want practicing journalists to have that position, but they knew that practicing journalists aren't qualified to be professors and should be protected from the normal evaluation practices which professors are normally subject to. You are basically hiring a celebrity. So, yeah. They really fucked up.

R19, tenure in a school of journalism is handled different than in a traditional academic dept, and thus, your confusion.

She’s not taking the job anyway. She has decided to start teaching at Howard. This is a real loss for UNC.

No it isn't, R24. It's a loss for Duke because they can no longer rub it in their faces!

I have a friend who got tenure as a choir director in a small liberal arts college.

Tenure in the arts does not have the same standards as traditional academic tenure. They don’t have to publish lots of books and papers. They just have to show they are good at what they do. tenure guarantees them a job and some independence.

R25, she’s a major journalist, despite Republicans hating her. Yes, UNC students could have learned from her but they made her walk through all this muck

Tenure standards might differ between departments, but that generally does not mean that people can walk in off the street and get tenure because they care or whatever. The departments are still staffed overwhelmingly by people with PhDs (and associated academic work experience and publications).

And please don't attack me and call me Boris, I'm not trying to badmouth the lady in question.

[quote] This is sort of a confusing story to begin with. I work at a university and I had never heard of a tenured position without the normal requirements for earning tenure. I frankly don't understand why they do this. To make it easier for unqualified people to earn a status that takes everyone else many years of education and work?

This is often the case with endowed positions that run centers within the university. The universities bring people in granting them tenure and do not put them through the normal tenure process. I personally know two people who were given tenure in precisely this way.

Yes, for the endowed chairs. Otherwise, you would usually get a non-tenured "professor of practice" position, which was the consolation prize they tried to offer her. Another unappreciated angle here is that there are people on the UNC system board of governors who are ruling on these matters and who don't have a college degree at all!

Not at your university. We know.

Yes, R32. At my university the special treatment is reserved for poets.

Good for Howard. Two major black intellectuals joining their faculty is a huge deal. UNC will now be recognized for what it is, a racist backwater shithole filled with straight white morons. Have fun with getting that message out.

Arts tenure is given out based on achievement not academic publishing. Obviously. For example, a voice or instrument teacher is going to be assessed based on their performance and reach in the field. Someone who has sung at the Met for years is going to get a tenured position over some yahoo who may have a masters and doctorate and written a book about teaching singing but never actually performed.

They have a non-tenured category for professionals without academic credentials: professor of practice.

[Quote] Tenure standards might differ between departments, but that generally does not mean that people can walk in off the street and get tenure because they care or whatever.

She didn’t “walk in off the street;” she’s an accomplished and nationally famous journalist. I doubt there’s even such a thing as a PhD in journalism

She got through each level of the tenure determination process just fine.

We now know that it was a wealthy conservative donor to the school that pressured the school in denying her tenure. It has nothing to do with her actual qualifications, which are excellent.

R37 there ARE journalism PhDs.

I have been posting all over this thread for too long, mostly to try and make it clear how difficult it usually is to get tenure, and to point out the wide variety of different types of faculty that exist. Anyone who gets tenure without doing the work is unusual abd damned lucky. Regardless of their politics or whatever. But obviously nobody much cares, so I will shut up now, hooray.

I'm a UNC alum (1977), and what's been happening is absolutely a product of GOP/right-wing politics infecting the whole university system. You could tell things were leaning in a not-good direction when conservative Margaret Spellings was appointed President of the system in 2016 and then-Governor McCrory started interfering with the curriculum.

UNC is NOT some backwater, hillbilly university, as some immature posters here comment. It's still a well-respected, well-ranked university, but the Right in NC has been trying to chip away at what it considers the more liberal aspects of the school.

But I remember as a young, closeted gayling arriving at the school in '73 and learning that the Southeastern Gay Conference was held at the school each Spring and being wowed. There was a reason why the notorious Jesse Helms used to half-joke about putting a fence around Chapel Hill.

[Quote] Anyone who gets tenure without doing the work...

What you keep ignoring is she DID do the work.

Obviously an adjunct.

R39, but obviously not enough of them to serve as the bedrock fir the many schools of journalism.

Journalism isn’t an academic subject, more an art, so tenure can never be based upon academic degrees in this case

I was speaking to the poster that can't shut up about it.

About...the poster...

I did shut up. Nobody is listening.

What's the 1619 Project?

R48, Google is your friend

No it's not

Dr. Rashad wants to spend more time with her family.

Hard to believe that anyone is surprised that this took place in North Carolina. There's a reason it sends rightwing reps to DC, why Jesse Helms is its most famous citizen, and why the university can never be top-rated -- the state is basically a bunch of rightwing bigots who've allowed, so far at least, some liberals to exist within university borders -- as long as these darn Yankee liberals never really upset the balance of power in the state and do something like, you know, legislate fairly and help the state enter the 21st century.

Some of you need to get it through your thick-skulls. This all happened because right-wing, white trash with money made it happen. Period. Stop trying to -yet again- attempt to make this a dinner bell for the usual, tiresome "some minority wasn't qualified enough" horseshit.

A racist old shit who went on Tucker fucker Cralson is "concerned" about "objectivity"? Spare me.

Some white people have made it crystal clear they do not believe in learning from actual history.

Conservative white men need to be exterminated. They are Americas biggest problem.

Kill as many dead as possible. They are the worst type of "human beings." Nothing good ever comes from them.

SOME BILLIONAIRE WAS TRYING TO MEDDLE IN THE BUSINESS OF A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

WHY IS EVERYONE SO SCARED OF THESE STUPID BILLIONARE RIGHT-WING ASSHOLES?

JUST COME OUT AND SAY THIS GUY WAS TRYING TO USE HIS IS ILL-GOTTEN BLOOD MONEY TO STEAMROLL OVER A TWO-HUNDRED-YEAR-OLD PUBLIC SCHOOL TO STOP THIS BLACK LADY FROM GETTING TENURE.

Yes, it is disgusting.

But she ultimately prevailed.

I heard a white woman describe her this morning as the kind of journalist that only comes around once in a lifetime. UNC screwed up big time and I hope they blame it all on the Repubs that caused the whole thing.

They will. Ya'll rag NC but we certainly are not SC, FL, or Alabama among others.

And many of those Yankees moving here are rethugs, just so you know.

UNC has a history of this crap

Shady

This Twitter thread by a NC journalist is a great run down of what happened and the politics behind it. As well as the difference between journalists like Hannah-Jones who make a name for themselves on their own talent and "journalists" like Hussman who were handed media empires and wield undeserved power.

How can this stuff go on at a public university?

Has the board of governors resigned in shame? Let alone, commented?

The South, "Don't ask. Don't tell."

But at least Hussman got what he wanted: The usual enablers who go along with the lies because they themselves lack the introspection to confront their own prejudices. When this story first started, people (and not merely right-wingers) were all too willing to go along with the usual narrative of an "affirm. action" hire given some sort of special treatment that was never afforded to anyone else in the history of academia.

The 1619 Project is full of historical inaccuracies.

Oh yeah, NC Dems are willing to be moderate but fair. As long as they are in charge. lol

They do the dance.

[quote]The 1619 Project is full of historical inaccuracies.

Why don't you and/or the person who "liked" your comment at least cite examples?

And BTW, how is the 1619 project having inaccuracies (if it does) any different than much of what we've learned throughout our lives? The point is to DEBATE what you think is inaccurate, not to completely shutdown the discussion like a fucking fascist. So it's OK to have learned about European history forever and find out much of what we've learned was inaccurate, and continue to teach European history or do we just complete shut it down?

completely*

r70 just go to Wiki. The American Revolution was not fought to preserve slavery, for starters.

r71 what other shit can you pull out of your ass today?

R74, why? Are you hungry?

You can't respond, dickhead.

[quote] And please don't attack me and call me Boris, I'm not trying to badmouth the lady in question.

Oh, I wouldn't dream of it. That's the sort of thing Ling-Ling would do.

r75 all of European history vs. the 1619 project? Really? Just because a black person invents something doesn't make it immune to criticism and being called out for inaccuracies.

[quote]The point is to DEBATE what you think is inaccurate, not to completely shutdown the discussion like a fucking fascist. S

So teach the obfuscations and inaccuracies when it's being discussed, but don't make it the official curriculum.

Anyway, other countries are too busy with STEM education to worry about this shit. America will keep falling behind in areas where it matters because we waste so much of our time.

[quote] So it's OK to have learned about European history forever and find out much of what we've learned was inaccurate,

Please provide examples.

Gawd! Ya'll prepare your dissertations.

R77, my point is: We've been taught certain things that we've eventually learned to be inaccurate - that doesn't mean we immediately nix the entire lesson. The people who are opposed to the 1619 Project are not coming from an "academic" place and you know it. Their issue is not "inaccuracies," it's the topic itself. You'r eprobably the one who linked to the Manahttan Project for back up when that asshole has made it clear what his intention was in demonizing the 1619 Project.

Are you serious, R79? The fact that we now have statues coming down that once celebrated people who turned out to be monsters. A full-fleshed out bio finally comes to light of many of these people.

Manhattan*

Every previous Knight Chair at UNC’s School of Journalism has received tenure as part of the arrangement. Nikole Hannah-Jones was singled out for different treatment. You can guess why.

Maybe UNC doesn’t want to stand behind the 1619 project, since it was criticized for being inaccurate by historians. Most see it for what it is, political leverage and an attempt to make everything centered on the plight of Blacks.

But journalism isn’t history, I suppose. It is closer to activism.

FFS r81 it's academics who are criticizing the 1619 project! Haven't you fucking read anything about this?

R85, criticizing and nixing it altogether are two, different things.

There was a chapel on a hill with a well in 17wtf ever. I bet they were nude and sucking each other off.

It's poor scholarship and full of inaccuracies. It shouldn't be taught as curriculum.

“Maybe UNC doesn’t want to stand behind the 1619 project”

Clearly they do because they gave her a tenured job.

Are you keeping up?

The racists who were chapped that she was even considered for the position are even more chapped now that she threw it back at them and declined.

R85:

[quote] “Each of us, all of us, think that the idea of the 1619 Project is fantastic. I mean, it's just urgently needed. The idea of bringing to light not only scholarship but all sorts of things that have to do with the centrality of slavery and of racism to American history is a wonderful idea,” he said. In a subsequent interview, he said, “Far from an attempt to discredit the 1619 Project, our letter is intended to help it.”

That's my point. There is a difference between the Manhattan Project/Tucker Carlson, Hussman insofar as where they are coming from vs legitimate historians who are critical of the inaccuracies, but think the project itself is a good idea. Don't conflate historians with white supremacist fascists and their usual agenda.

R90, some of them are probably happy, since they didn’t want her in the first place, that is why they dragged their feet giving her tenure.

I told you she was shifty!

Who was the donor?

R92, maybe a few, but the worst of the lot wanted to declare her unworthy and delegitimize her. Instead she just pulled the ultimate "I'm breaking up with YOU."

R95. You are naive. They offered her tenure after she took another offer, so they could save face.

But sure, she really showed them!

R94. Walter Hussman, promised $25m and had the school renamed: UNC Hussman School of Journalism and Media. He’s a real looker.

Twenty bucks says r88 hasn't even read the 1619 Project

R96, oh yeah they sure are saving face.

Think of this way: If Tucker Carlson were offered this position, you think that decrepit Nazi Hussman would have an issue with tenure?

Nothing says "face-saving" like frantically denying you did what you did.

R100 his issue wasn't just tenure, he was against her being hired at all. The school tried to appease him by not offering her tenure.

Does UNC really believe having that asshole's name on their journalism school bodes well for them when students have to decide where they want to go?

The rethugs on the UNC System board probably did not give a fuck. It is a system of all NC public universities with wahoos and all sorts of connected people making decisions for the whole state.

I wonder why an Ivy League didn't offer to hire her.

The cunt who was trying to keep her out was a rich old asshole that has been an anti Clinton millionaire donor for literally thirty years. He’s a nasty old fuck.

1619 project was not criticized as being inaccurate by actual historians R84, you dipshit Trumper. It was “criticized” by right wing morons whom no one takes seriously and were completely ignored by real academics and journalists.

So fuck off.

Bullshit r107. Again, just because a black person does something doesn't make it immune to debate and above criticism. Look up Gordon S. Wood, James M. McPherson, Sean Wilentz, Victoria Bynum and James Oakes, for starters.

R105 She wants to be at an HBCU. She said she wanted to be where she will be appreciated and embraced and not tolerated.

I don't blame her.

Most of European history is written in the blood of Jews, homosexuals, and non-whites. It is disingenuous to single out America is being unique in that respect when its uniqueness is in its level of denial of its own culpability for crimes against humanity.

While some complained about specific issues in 1619, most were extraordinarily minor. The NYTimes hired a panel of well known historians who investigated everything and just smoothed out some of the language.

The line about the American Revolution being fought because slave owners were worried Britain would free the slaves was smoothed out so it’s clear that one of the reasons for the Revolution was this fear slave owners had. There is much evidence that slaves looked to Britain to free them (even superstar historians like Schama have documented that years before 1619 Project), so slave owners fearing they would lose their slaves makes complete sense.

Either way, it is literally one line in a multi-page, complex introductory essay to 1619–so you complain it negates the entire Project is specious and depends on the assumption that most people haven’t read it. It’s just another boogie man for the GOP.

Heck, even UNC didn’t cite this when he first rejected tenure so to keep bringing it up is idiotic.

[Quote] I wonder why an Ivy League didn't offer to hire her.

Most Ivys don’t have schools of journalism

What is this Manhattan Project people are referring to, besides the WWII atomic-bomb project? Something to do with Motherfucker Carlson?

My apologies, R113. I meant the Manhattan Institute.

Ohhhh, okay! I even did a web search for those keywords and came up with nothing. Nothing but articles about Tucker Motherfucking Carlson, that is, which gave me the heebie-jeebies. That fat-faced bastard is so gross.