La Garfield to star in miniseries adaptation of “Under the Banner of Heaven”

Why the fuck would anyone hire DLB anymore? He hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

I think it’s less about relevancy than him having no talent really? That awful LGBT mini series! Milk was probably his best work but didn’t see that Eastwood one. But who knows? These two starring means it definitely must have some merit

Is La Belle playing the cop gay or is that the voice he just uses in all his roles now?

This starts on Thursday 28th April bitches.

They had the premiere this weekend and Tom Daley's husband dressed up as Ellen DeGeneres for the occasion.

I have to finish the book before watching.

The book is fantastic. If you don’t watch or don’t like the miniseries, I recommend reading it.

Seconded, R6.

R6, is it about a gay/bi character?

She looks like nepo Dakota Johnson

R1 I’m sure a big reason is that he grew up Mormon and has a better working knowledge of the church and religion then most writers could hope to have and be able to decipher the complexities of it since it is heavily intwined in the crime.

A lot of the main actors are British and Irish, which seems strange unless it was filmed there instead of the US?

At the end of the first episode his wife joins him in the shower for some Mormon sex, but he’s too overwhelmed by the crime. He looks real tight and good, though no shots of him in his magic underwear like in the porn.

[quote]A lot of the main actors are British and Irish, which seems strange unless it was filmed there instead of the US?

And Australian.

The Culkin is American though.

I remember the murders and I read an article about it in some magazine, maybe the New Yorker or Vanity Fair. I remember thinking the Mormons were drunk on religion, but it was a weird religion. I felt like Mormons were evil and strange. I just started watching.

Under the Banner of Heaven is an excellent work. And those FLDS adherents are as whack (and drugged-out) as any ISIS or Taliban fighter.

If you want to know more about the start of the Mormon church (and other Christian faiths) read Occult America by Mitch Horowitz. Now that was eye-opening.

Andrew Garfield's character is supposed to be a mainstream Mormon, but they went so far over the top that he’s veering into Trey Parker and Matt Stone territory.

I was a kid in SLC when this story took place, and without getting into my father’s career or why it subjected me to daily interactions with an endless parade of active Mormons, no one—from GA to janitor—was running around quoting the BoM, saying “you couldn’t […] to save your life, Heavenly Father knows,” shunning medication because Alzheimer's is a test, or dropping to their knees and praying at work. Maybe they're playing it up in the beginning so that it will be more dramatic when he starts questioning things late. Whatever the case, it's funny to watch.

His accent was a little off in places, but he did a good job with the cadence and tone of voice. He even managed the little nonalcoholic slur. The wife’s one-piece flare-legged garment made me laugh because my stepmother stockpiled at least fifty of them when the church discontinued that style a few years ago.

Fundie families like the Laffertys were still around at that time—creeping everyone out and getting excommunicated left and right—before they all ran off to AZ and Mexico to start their own cults. At least that part rang true.

I can't wait for the shrieking when the episode with the endowment and (now discontinued) penalties airs.

Did anyone else watch yet? I thought first 2 episodes were great.

Andrew Garfield is super likable and very earnest, but having seen him on the stage and in films, I just don't see him as very talented. I like him anyway, but he's often not that good.

I HATED "tick, tick...Boom", if that matters.

Yeah I hated it too R18 but he’s fine in this because he’s just playing a Mormon cop. The story itself is pretty interesting and the first two episodes are well written.

I don’t think it works. It wants to behave like a naturalistic procedural thriller but then the characters start talking in florid, theatrical, almost Kushnerian language. It feels ridiculous.

Why is Garfield playing the detective as gay?

[quote]Why is Garfield playing the detective as gay?

Why did Garfield play Prior Walter as Ginger Grant?

There’s so much Mormon info dump in the first two episodes that didn’t make it feel organic, the old adage is “show don’t tell” for a reason.

The fundamentalist Mormon offshoots became more popular in the late 70’s and early 80’s once the LDS church allowed black people to gain the priesthood. These were normal, everyday Mormons. Fundamentalists would find disgruntled members of the church and persuade them to join the “true church” that doesn’t hide its racist and polygamist beliefs.

^Adding that just to say, I found it hard to believe that Andrew’s character, a super Mormon, wouldn’t know this. Because there was panic about fundamentalists infiltrating the main LDS church for resources and information (they were) so the fact he wasn’t alarmed to the story about the man’s family being pursued by bearded Godly folks doesn’t make sense. But I am enjoying it so far

I like the other detective who thinks Garfield is an idiot and the LDS people are full of shit.

Wyatt Russell who plays Dan Lafferty is the son of Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell.

[quote]There’s so much Mormon info dump in the first two episodes that didn’t make it feel organic, the old adage is “show don’t tell” for a reason.

The book goes into great detail about the history of Mormonism to explain the current behaviors (hatred of the feds, dislike of gentiles & general outsiders, subjugation of women, etc) as context for the Lafferty family and while that works in a book, it bogs down the show. I thought the real reason that the Lafferty family became radicalized was because they'd been physically & mentally abused all their lives & fundamentalism gave them the power to abuse & control others. So while Mormonism gave their behavior some purpose or context, I think they'd have done something similar anyway because Brenda pushing back on them was just behavior that they could not abide.

Being beaten over the head with the CTR rings in the second episode has pushed me over the edge. The only thing saving us from a WoW scene is that it wouldn't foreshadow a deep, dark, faith-shattering choice Jeb Pyre is forced to make later.

Daughter 1: Daddy, why are you making hot chocolate for us when Doctrines & Covenants 89, which is a revelation received by Joseph Smith in 1833, also known as the Word of Wisdom, says hot drinks are off limits?

Jeb: Awww crud, girls. Who’s been putting these ideas in your head? Everyone knows that hot chocolate is different.

Daughter 2: Why? It’s hot.

J: It isn’t about the heat; it's the caffeine. It was never about the heat.

D1: But hot chocolate has caffeine. And, anyway, you drink Coke all the time. That also has caffeine.

J: Coke is a cold drink. That’s different.

D2: What about iced tea?

J: Well, iced tea starts off as hot tea...

D1: But you JUST said it isn’t about the heat!

J: I never said that.

D2: And while we’re here, if meat should only be eaten in “times of famine and excess of hunger,” why do we eat it at every meal, and why does the church own so many cattle ranches?

JP: Got dandruff!

As a former Utahan, I am loving this series.

Visitors who come to DL have no idea of what it’s like in Utah, Southern Idaho, Eastern WY/CO, Eastern OR, Nor AZ, and NV.

The Laffertys were of the School of Prophets. Don’t mix that up with the pedophilic Colorado City AZ/Hilldale/Utah Jeffs nutters.

But they are all crazy, lazy, and scammy.

I was stunned when Fox News trumpeted the insane Bundy family. These are all just “religious” fanatics who want to steal public lands and resources and create some scammy next thing.

Anyway, when these murders happened and the brutal details leaked out, it was clear this was a “blood of atonement” thing.

I grew up around a lot of Mormons (in suburban DC strangely) and god they were strange. The guys always seemed gay and the girls were dead behind the eyes. My mother always wanted me to befriend them because none of them drank or did drugs.

Loving this show too.

Man, the Bundy are one of the worst and seem to have scammed or rightened everyone else to do their bidding. When the initial stand-off with the Feds occurred, I was furious that the media did not report over and over and over again to the country that we were looking at religious fundamentalism in action here in the U.S.

That's all they are, religious fundamentalists.

Lol R28 you remember. ❤️ But you forgot about Pepsi being eventually okay and black priests being okay after 1978 (shout out to U of WY).

And for those who are questioning Andrew Garfield’s script about Heavenly Father - uhm that worshiping talk is for real. If I could go back in time I would’ve stayed to fight the good fight.

Is this the official thread now? I’ve got some Lularoe and Herbalife to sort through in my garage now (jk) but I’ll pay attention to this thread as the series progresses….. And think about Blood Atonement in memory of Gary Gilmore and John Lee…..

How much the police officer brings his religion into his job as a police officer creeps me the fuck out. I hope before this ends he gets reprimanded severely if not dismissed from the force.

I like her and I loved the movie Fresh

[quote]And for those who are questioning Andrew Garfield’s script about Heavenly Father - uhm that worshiping talk is for real.

That wasn't my experience at all, thankfully, but I was surrounded by people who were on the grifte... uh, the business side, and who privately viewed it as such. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it made for a fun childhood; almost like performing in a play when we were outside the house.

Watching the life of Mormons is exhausting and Andrew will never present dongs; I will pass.

I thought we were going to see him in his magic underwear this week, but no such luck.

R33 Lol, welcome to Utah! It’s basically a theocratic state over there.

Linked is an excerpt of "Under the Banner of Heaven." There's also a separate summary & a study guide.

I'm glad to see others are watching/liking this show, though I wish Hulu had dropped all the episodes at once; it's not that long and particularly with all those Mormon flashbacks, you need to stay in the story to appreciate what's going on.

R40 I was thinking the same thing. It really breaks up the flow to watch them week to week

This is quite interesting, and I’m amazed by how much I’ve picked up watching Mormon Boys porn.

R42, For those who are restricted by the paywall,linked is a brief overview of multiple secret LDS ceremonies filmed by hidden camera.

Will boycott anything DLB is involved in. Don’t like that scumbag Andrew Garfield either.

Also for someone who claims to be such a great advocate for the lgbt community DLB certainly never works with out actors

Dr Grande summarizes this murder case and comments on the mental condition of the perps. Note that he mistakenly refers to Brenda's dead child as 15 years old rather than 15 months. Tragic.

Those kooky hats/hairnets the men wear in church are wild!

Also recognized some stuff from Mormon porn. So funny.

Ep 3 has a brief Temple ceremony visuals and intimations about the old Temple gal/guy anointing the parts. And the faithful doing the bowel-cup-holding and neck/torso slicing.

Creepy to many but it’s not that bad compared to the one and only true Church’s violent prurient history and scamming.

None of this temple stuff is as disturbing as how Mormons have been trying to steal BLM/FS lands for decades and resist federal law. It’s their Kingdom of Deseret which they want to Lord over. Gentiles be damned.

I do not like how Det Pyre is confused about Blood Atonement scripture. That was basic 101 knowledge. But I guess it had to be that way for this series.

Linked is an even better summary of the entire double murder and trial. Didn't know that Ron's in prison GF was convinced to commit suicide, along with her husband, and to jointly murder her 3 young kids. Tragic belief in the "End Times."

[quote]I grew up around a lot of Mormons (in suburban DC strangely)

"Strangely"? The Mormon Temple in Kensington is huge.

The only exposure I had to Mormons growing up were Donny & Marie & it made me think Mormons must be cool because they this big attractive family where everyone seemed so nice. This book, embarrassingly enough, was my first real exposure to the whole theology of Mormonism and why other religions think they're a cult (they are). I don't know if this was anyone else's experience, but a guy used to work with who grew up around Mormons in Idaho didn't like them because even if you thought someone was your friends, the Mormon community was tight and would not only push away but actively screw over someone who wasn't "one of them." So he didn't buy any of that Mormon "nice" act - he felt he knew what they were really like.

Strangely enough, in my hometown in Ohio, Amish/Mennonites who are being excommunicated for being too "worldly" (running businesses using technology) are becoming Mormons which seems at odds with the sort of Old Testament doctrine that those communities typically cling to. But whatever allows you to keep your iphone, I guess

[quote]would not only push away but actively screw over someone who wasn't "one of them."

I never experienced that, but I recognize that my situation was unique. If anything, it’s been the opposite. Everything is about performative friendliness and helpfulness, because ultimately it’s just prosperity gospel + the added burden of appearing Christlike and perfect 100% of the time. Heavenly Father rewards his favorites.

So not only are kids having their hair sprayed with lemon juice before going out in the sun; getting their ears pinned back and being subjected to phase 1 orthodontic treatment (palate expanders, etc.) at 7-8 for facial improvement, not correction; they also are expected to spend an inordinate amount of time mowing lawns, shoveling snow, loading groceries, and doing it all with a fake genuine smile and an “aw, shucks” demeanor.

As an example, I had my car taken away for a week right after I got my license. My crime? My dad was putting something in my trunk and noticed that I had taken the jumper cables out. I didn’t know what the big deal was because we had AAA.

He read me the riot act because what if I had been in a parking lot and someone couldn’t start their car? What was I going to do, just ignore them? Did I realize how bad that would look for me? For him? For our whole family? For the entire fucking church??

[quote]So he didn't buy any of that Mormon "nice" act - he felt he knew what they were really like.

Same dad: “We’re friendly with everyone; we’re not friends. Don’t ever confuse the two.”

That's a very interesting post R51

Indeed...my just dead partner was baptized without anyone's permission right after he passed.

R51, " “We’re friendly with everyone; we’re not friends. Don’t ever confuse the two.”"

That is why I love reading DL." I've experienced the above and it was quite a shock at the time. Truly didn't understand what was going on. There's a distance between LDS and those who aren't and will never be converts. Still I did get a LOT of benefits at the time of my association as it was a very difficult time in my life. Kudos to their outreach.

R51, Wish to ad, "Be of the world, but never a part of the world."

That's a not so subtle dis on Western worldliness from everything to the way normies celebrate Christmas, as not totally centered on Christ's birthday, to the interest in anything remotely related to Hollywood. Ironic considering the focus on plastic surgery.

Is Garfield doing something particular with role in how he holds/juts his jaw, flares his nostrils and many times breathes through his mouth and maybe squints his eyes? I haven’t watched him enough to know if that’s his normal demeanor, but it seems very pronounced here.

He does those things to demonstrate the intense internal conflict and doubt besetting his character.

Where the hell is this shelf they keep mentioning?

I’m going to be deeply disappointed if by the end Garfield’s character doesn't take his family and abandon his faith and go on the run escaping Utah.

R47. Can you explain that? I honestly was confused. I was distracted for a minute so I wasn't sure if the girl in white was being groped by some old lady and what the neck slicing motion meant.

Couldn't believe when the bishop asked those little girls if they were tithing 10% of their allowance. Taking money from children is bad imo.

R58, the shelf is in the long-term storage room in the basement; right above the pallet of wheat berries, to the left of the pallet of pinto beans. You’ve been looking in the upstairs pantry. Did you really expect to find anything in this mess?

For those who don’t know, “the shelf” is where Mormons pile their questions about things that don’t add up.

It’s hammered into little kids' heads that they’ll understand when they’re older, and more importantly, wiser, so just put your stupid questions and doubts on the shelf and forget all about them for now. The groundwork for a lifetime of staying quiet and compliant is started very young.

It's fully ingrained by adolescence that pointing out the illogical just isn't done, so the shelf gets very heavy. For some, it eventually breaks and there’s no going back.

R63, LDS preaches preparedness for future financially difficult times. Done correctly, it makes sense, although most Mormons are told about the time a huge number of men were imprisoned due to US government raids. Mothers with lots of kids weren't able to work outside the home.

Wheat berries keep longer than flour when properly sealed in cans, and can be made into healthy bread and cereal dishes. Pinto beans adds cheap protein and fiber.

There's the local bishop's storehouse for those who become impoverished and are hungry. Some offer free access to non-LDS members.

R60, Children are taught about charity from the time that they can understand the concept. That includes giving 10% of all earning to the LDS church.

On the positive side, if your home burns down or you have a medical emergency the LDS church will provide for your needs. So it's like a form of insurance started from Day-1 and still in existence. They also have an excellent job referral program that far, far better than the US government equivalent of EDD.

The symbolic drawing your finger around your neck is taken from the Masons. Believers would rather cut their own throat than reveal organizational secrets.

White temple garments of a certain style represent holiness. Yes they're very covering and meant to represent unity rather than sexuality.

That's very interesting R63, though I remember on Big Love (not exactly a documentary, I know) that it was a real source of disgrace if you weren't able to pay your tithe because you lost your job or something. What allowances do they make for people who (for whatever reason) can't pay?

[quote]Some offer free access to non-LDS members.

Technically, from the top, they’re all required to help in good faith anyone who truly needs help. But the devil is in the details and the “in good faith” part is left to the whims of the bishop the person-in-need happens to contact.

While one might write a six-month pass for unlimited trips; another could say it’s a one-time thing and only allow the person to get specific items, and only in exchange for free labor; a third could just say no.

Joseph Smith pulled off a big con.

Whatever happened to his first wife?

I'm having a hard time following who's who in that Lafferty family.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R67 Me too! I think it’s the beards. When they showed Robin, I totally forgot who he was and thought he was Dan at first.

I have to say, Wyatt Russell was a great casting choice, he looks so much like Dan

[quote]I have to say, Wyatt Russell was a great casting choice, he looks so much like Dan

Agreed; he's very good about switching between a charismatic psycho, a bully and a beaten broken man

Does Daisy EJ manage an American accent effectively?

There are some good YouTube channels from those who left the LDS church and the offshoots that live polygamy. They give you a good insider’s account. “Growing Up in Polygamy” is run by Sam — a former member of the FLDS church — and his wife Melissa, who left the LDS church. Interesting insight. Sam joined the LDS church after leaving the FLDS, but both left it. Another is Amanda Rae Grant’s channel, who grew up in the Kingston group, a Mormon offshoot, where they marry their half-siblings. There’s another guy who grew up Mormon, but is now very critical of the church. He devotes many episodes on how badly the LDS church treats members of the lgbtq+ community. Those who left the Mormon church say it is nothing more than a cult.

R71 I completely understand and empathize with everything she is saying. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if the LDS church is furious on how terrible their faith is coming across… the show did not exaggerate the beliefs at all, it’s all there.

R64, You're required to pay at least 10% of all earnings otherwise you won't continue to receive God's blessings.

Unfortunately there' isn't a cut-off if your income falls way below the poverty line. Yes you can talk to your local bishop who's probably well aware of your financial hardship anyway and make a temporary arrangement.

Local LDS volunteers make regular home visits to pray with those struggling with financial, health, and other emergencies. If you look at the required tithing as a very good insurance plan for potential life's disasters than you might consider it worthwhile as well.

Likely you'll be helped to find another job so that you can make up the past deficit. Also the bishop's storehouse of emergency food like rice, beans, canned carrots and apples, will be made available to you if necessary.

Brenda's sister is correct in that it's not the LDS church's views on women, wives, mothers versus men's roles that caused the murders.

Rather it's hyper controlling men reacting to ultra-domineering fathers that use their religious faith to justify their mentality and subsequent actions.

At the end of the year there’s a private tithing settlement meeting. The bishop asks if you’ve paid the full or partial tithe, and that’s the end of that. It’s on the honor system; they don’t ask to see a W-2.

Tithing status is ostensibly private but not paying the full 10% is one of the things that automatically result in a temple recommend not being renewed. It’s very awkward when people who’ve previously had recommends are suddenly forced to lurk outside the door of the temple while their son or daughter is getting sealed (AKA a temple wedding) inside. That’s when everyone starts buzzing.

As for “God’s blessings,” well…

It's a fucking cult. It's belief system is bullshit. Fuck them.

I am curious if the real life person Garfield is portraying is still in that cult.

If I recall, the Garfield character is not one person but a composite of multiple people. I'd like know if any of the Laffertys are still associated with mainstream LDS church, particularly given the emphasis on family/ancestry in the Mormon faith.

"Members of your were involved in a notorious brutal murder of a woman & her small child."

"Yes, my tithing is current"

"Never mind, come on in"

I am impressed that with the exception of Russell & the spare Culkin, many of the cast are not American, but their accents are spot on.

All I see when I see Andrew Garfield is Tony Perkins, and therefore I can't really watch AG films. It's just too disorienting.

Wow R81 I knew he reminded me of someone.

[quote]I'd like know if any of the Laffertys are still associated with mainstream LDS church

Claudine was, until her death a few years ago.

Allen and his third (or maybe fourth?) wife Heidi are active members. He moved back to Utah right around the time Claudine died and has been attempting to sell himself as some sort of life coach and motivational speaker for MLMs. He isn’t popular.

Why are Mormons considered Christians?

They have a whole third book of the Bible that Christians don't recognize.

Seems they are their own religion, the first American relgiion

I find their whole history fascinating--how a cult grew into a movement and how they founded their own state in Utah

I should add that I could go on, but I'm going spare you as the other real-life Laffertys aren't even in the Hulu series. The ones living in Utah just blithely go on as if they're oblivious to the fact that 99% of the people surrounding them are freaked out by their presence and have their suspicions about the entire family. Tim and Watson, Jr., I believe, have never returned to Utah.

[quote]I should add that I could go on, but I'm going spare you as the other real-life Laffertys aren't even in the Hulu series.

I read an article indicating that they changed the names of the non-murdering brothers, which I assume is a legal thing since they were never implicated in the murders.

Years ago in my Catholic days, they openly stated that they considered Mormons a cult, not a valid religion

Who is the quiet one who never speaks and looks "special"?

One thing I don’t understand is that fundamental to polygamy is the idea that the man is wealthy and a good enough provider to be able to support having multiple wives, but Dan is just a big fuck up that destroys his business and is scrounging for money to support his family. And I’m getting vibes that it’s more about him being a horny perv that he wants more wives then it’s a spiritual calling. Are we supposed to believe he sees it as a faith issue or recognize what’s really going on?

R87 I think we got the answer to that on the father’s death bed.

I haven't gotten that far R89.

R88 That’s polygamy in a nutshell! It never benefits the women, only the men. Big Love was really good with this… the women were finally fulfilled and happy once Bill died!

They are so kooky with all their talk about priesthood and priestholder.

R58, The original concept of polygamy was taken from ancient Biblical times when there were many more women than men. Wars and brutally hard work created an uneven ratio between the sexes. Polygamy was a solution as woman weren't safe living without a man's protection.

FLDS and offshoots changed the norms. Today many live off of welfare as the spiritual wives don't have legal husbands.

La Garfield loves lasagna but hates Mondays! This is an interesting casting choice.

Isn't Dustin tired of writing Mormon themed stuff? Talk about typecasting. Wasn't him shooting a movie about his life? Or was it a documentary?

This last episode was directed by DLB, I didn’t know he did that?

No cameo from Tom Daley as one of the Mormon youths?

I'm finding it quite long winded. The first couple of episodes were good, but I fell asleep during episode 4 and I haven't bothered rewatching. Might stop to be honest.

Was this incident a big deal in the Mormon community? Like are people in Utah still aware this happened?

I don’t have a sense of the significance of the murder and lunatic brothers.

At least we saw a little of the magic underwear on Garfield and it suggestively altered on the bombastic brother.

R99, it was a huge deal at the time. I haven't read the book, and it was only glossed over in the miniseries, but the murders took place during the Satanic Panic, only a few months after the McMartin preschool indictments.

Utah was awash in it because Barbara Snow, one of the main figures pushing satanic ritual abuse, was LDS and a local. As kids during that time period, that was all we heard about. It was standard thing to have speakers come in and teach us how to spot satanism everywhere. So when the murders took place it was like, "Oh shit, now they're HERE!"

What I've learned since is that the adults in my life knew that it was all bullshit, but because it was good for the church's finances and good for keeping kids in line, they thought the fantasy of Satan lurking under every rock was a wonderful thing.

We're talking about an age group that grew up hearing about blood atonement and the White Horse Prophecy around Boy Scout campfires, after promising never to tell their parents. Considering Watson had been pinging the CAB's radar as a radical even prior to Ron's and Dan's excommunications, the likelihood of these murders not being recognized for what they were is slim to none.

As for who knows what now, I think anyone who grew up in Utah would be at least vaguely aware due to people my parents' age regurgitating the whole story every Pioneer Day and buzzing about where various Laffertys are now.

Thank you R101

Daisy Edgar-Jones? Are the fucking kidding?

R103 She’s totally someone you could imagine a whole family raising up against and and slaughtering, she practically typecast.

Yeah Daisy is pretty fucking annoying.

I love Denise Gough though. She’s better actress.

This article filled in a lot of missing information for me.

Dan is a depraved creep, but Ron is such pathetic figure - just like a beat dog. Sam Worthington, who is pretty but kind of dull, has been excellent in this series.

I never thought Sam Worthington was particularly attractive until this series.

Just finished the last episode and I thought it was the best one yet. Pyre’s faith is clearly shaken. I’m curious to see where he will be at the end of the series

Also, Wyatt Russell is incredible here. I know people will scream nepotism, but he deserves to be a bigger star after this. Maybe one of my favorite television performances this year so far

Did you ever watch Lodge 49, R109? It was a pretty terrific show. Quirky, funny, sweet, original and quirky (needed to be said twice). Wyatt Russell was the star of it and played a totally different character. Worth checking out.

R9 Dakota Johnson is already the nepo Dakota Johnson. But Daisy is somehow even less talented and more bland than Dakota.

Sam Worthington has a sexy gay hot hot tub kiss with a polygamist Mormon leader after being baptized! I mean he leans into and extenders it and everything!

She’s quite the busybody getting up into everybody’s business and giving the wives store bought butter and everything, not that she deserved to die or anything , but she makes Nancy Drew look like a wallflower.

So annoying how they all say “Heavenly Father!” without an ‘our’ or ‘the’ in front of it.

I hope they remember Billy Howle (Allen) at Emmy time.

In their minds, they’re talking about the actual father they had in premortal life (and still have), before they were given physical bodies and had their memories erased.

As a more sane example, if you were talking to a sibling you wouldn’t say: “Our mom just called and said our dad needs knee surgery.”

Good episode. I'm not usually a fan, but Garfield is great. That last scene where he was panicking in the car and sobbing was strong. He's building up to this loss of faith pretty masterfully.

Love Wyatt Russell too - he is such a freak as this character - it's fantastic.

Crazy how those Mormon leaders told Brenda to go against these excommunicated lunatics - that it was her calling. Oy. Just grant her a fucking divorce.

And the kiss in the hot tub was really something lol. I have to say that prophet guy and his blonde clone wives with their wine seemed like kind of a good time? Ron should have just stayed up there with them.

This cult is fucking crazy. I have got to read the book after this shit.

R117 me too. They are batshit crazy.

Garfileld is awesome in his breakdown scene; everything he built his life o, his rock, is gone.

I'm watching it but I have to say yes, I get it they are showing us just how crazy and drunk on religion all these people are, but the lonnnng explanatory discussions about their religion are getting in my way of enjoying it. I get it. But I wish they could have dispensed with some of this. I really didn't need to know.

I Also have one BIG question maybe some of you can answer: Why didn't Brenda just leave and go back to her father? He seemed like a decent sort who encouaged her in her interests and supported her. I mean, once it became clear how extreme this family was, she could have told the other wife, "Hey, I'm getting out of here and you should too, if you know what's good for you!"

Instead she fancied herself some kind of revolutionary, or WTF ever and got involved in othe people's business. I 'm not suggesting she was asking for it, but she had to know they weren't going to allow her to get away with it. She was warned by that other crazy wife with the Bitish accent.

R120 it sure didn’t help with her fool sister (the biological sister - not one of these women she calls sister) urged her to stick it out because she made some eternal vow to be married.

Judging from real housewives of Salt Lake City (I know I know - wtf do I know), divorce is still a big no no with Mormons. One of the housewives was a lifelong blonde Mormon with 3 kids and she got divorced and was promptly thrown out of the church and shunned for it.

I'm curious what happens to the wife with the Scots accent. She seems like such a wet dishrag.

[quote]I Also have one BIG question maybe some of you can answer: Why didn't Brenda just leave and go back to her father?

I think a multitude of reasons aside from just religion: she was very much little Miss Can Do and as a former beauty queen, probably thought she could use her charm & wiles to get them to do things her way, she very much liked the local status of being a "Lafferty", her father advised against marrying Allen, but she did it anyway, and probably wasn't eager to admit he was right but also (while the show doesn't show this), she was probably surrounded by friends getting married & having babies and wasn't eager to admit that her marriage was a failure, her husband a feckless loser & this golden family a bunch of very damaged loons. Even though the Laffertys grew up around violence, she didn't grow up in that kind of home.

Interesting. The Garfield character is a total invention.

Also, at least within this series, the Mormon elders encouraged her to stay and bring the Laffertys back into the fold. They also denied permission for a divorce.

I don't think that was the case in real life, but either way she probably would have made different choices had she known the loons were going to slit the throat of her 15 month old baby. She didn't know they were that crazy.

But blaming the victim is easier, so carry on, I guess?

Really wild they murdered the baby too. Seems excessive.

She could have been a future sister wife, so it also seems short-sighted if you ask me.

I didn’t realize it was the finale, I guess I should have known it was based on them showing the brutal murder. But there was no concluding statements of what happened to the brothers and I still don’t know what the heck that banner part was all about.

[quote]I still don’t know what the heck that banner part was all about.

[quote]When Dan signals interest in polygamy, the Mormon fundamentalist responds with the quote: “God is greater than the United States, and when the government is in conflict with heaven, we will be arranged under the banner of heaven against the Government. The United States says we cannot marry more than one wife. God says different.”

Glad it's over. I found all the scripture reciting and the historical references exhausting.

Well that was an underwhelming finale. We never got to see what happened to the Laffertys, instead we get that extended scene with the native American singing and Garfield's prayer circle with his wife and kids? WTF? I guess Dustin Lance Black just figured we would all google it ourselves. Rude.

Highlights for me were Wyatt Russell (loved him), Denise Gough (she was great in the scene at the gas station) and Jeb's demented mother (thought her stuff with Garfield was more touching than anything with his frau wife).

I found the history references interesting. I always thought Joseph Smith was THE grifter, now I've deduced that Brigham Young was the real asshole and influenced Smith in a negative way. Also, a murderous thug.

There is some doc on Netflix about another Mormon murder and it has something to do with a "salamander scripture" or something like that. Another huge church cover up.

The salamander letter. There was a period of time when the church would pay a fortune to buy forged documents and sit on them. Mark Hoffman, the subject of the documentary, was the most successful at it; he sold close to fifty documents to the church.

I don't understand the point to the last episode. They wasted an hour on a scenario that wasn't even close to what really happened, but I guess DLB couldn't bear the thought of a Circus Circus buffet tainting his story. I wish they had used a few minutes of that colossal waste of time for a flash forward to Ron's retrial when he showed up in court with "EXIT ONLY" written across his ass.

Hoffmann, that is.

R132 WHAT? He actually had EXIT ONLY written on his ass? That's amazing

He sure did.

[quote]When Ron appears in court, he spews expletives at the judge. At his 1996 retrial he wore a sign that read "Exit Only" on the seat of his pants to ward off evil spirits he believed wanted to enter his body through his anus.

How could DLB pass THAT up???

R135 that’s incredible.

The more I’m reading about it - the more DLB created some boring fiction instead of focusing on the truth, which seemed more interesting. And focusing on 2 fictional detectives and not telling us what ended up happening to the Laffertys was bullshit.

It was a compelling story and very well cast, but the show seemed half-assed & incomplete. I don't know if the writers were hampered by any kind of legal constraints from the non-murdering Laffertys or Brenda's family or if it was just lazy writing.

While I do think that Joseph Smith was the charismatic leader while Brigham Young was the "getter done" guy, it's not entirely clear if BY is really the villain in this story or if that's just the story that Smith's widow Emma (who could never make a go of it once most of other saints left for Utah) put out there.

Just once, when the Andrew Garfield character or any of the Laffertys were whining about the treatment of the Mormons by the federal government, I wanted the Native American detective to remind them how well the feds treated (and continued to treat) *his* ancestors.

I'm glad it's over. No one loves Andrew Garfield more than I do, but I'd like to see more of him in something. If I see anyone from this show ever again—except the ones who played Allen Lafferty and Joseph Smith, for reasons which will be obvious to everyone—it will be too soon.

I'm going to watch Tick, Tick...BOOM! again this weekend to restore my Andrewlibrium. And maybe a Spider-Man.

Great work from the entire cast but it was a real chore to get through.

Total chore - it was well made but should have been 5 episodes at most. The finale was so long winded. Great performances though.

Made the Mormons look real fucking crazy.

Watched it on Hulu, and it was so annoying that the commercials were 5x the volume level of the show.

Not having to watch commercials is worth the extra $5 (or whatever it costs), r142.

The show took place in three different timelines. Present Day, events leading up to the murders, and 19th century.

I often had a hard time knowing if something was present Day or an event leading up to the murders.

I found myself disgusted at the sheer largesse of family, especially when they couldn't support themselves.

R131, the Mormons have always known that Smith was a forger and a fake. The church fathers paid huge sums of money for documents, such as the “ salamander” letter, that they feared would expose Smith as a bogus occultist.

Just watched this. Mormons are fucking crazy. Wyatt Russell is a surprisingly good actor.

While they no longer officially practice polygamy in this life, the LDS church still promises the men they’ll have a bunch of young virgins waiting for them in the afterlife. Kind of like the Muslims. The LDS church is considered to be a cult by many groups. Oh yeah, after they die, they’ll become gods on their own planets, just like the god that supposedly oversees this one, which is why they’ll be getting these young virgins — to help them populate them.