Are You A Gay Catholic Priest?

This will end in tears.

I have a better question: if you're gay, why the fuck are you a priest, an employee of one of the most virulently anti-gay organizations in the world, not to mention being one of the most blatantly corrupt institutions on the planet?

The gay catholic priests aren’t celibate. I doubt the straight ones are either.

I've had sex with a number of priests.

No, but I went to Catholic university and took a class that was taught by a priest who was flaming.

Are there any straight ones?

[quote] No, but I went to Catholic university and took a class that was taught by a priest who was flaming.

Yeah, that does not distinguish you in the least. There are lots of priests teaching in Catholic colleges and universities who are flaming.

[quote] Are there any straight ones?

Yes, I'm sure that there are.

I'm probably more celibate than most priests.

We're everywhere so why not in the Priesthood?

[quote] I'm probably more celibate than most priests.

In the Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church, the word "celibacy" is used specifically to mean unmarried.

You probably mean to say that you are more chaste than most priests.

My (gay) cousin is a Monsignor (basically, an honorific used for a priest). We were very close growing up but the relationship chilled after I came out. We did see each other once in a while, years ago, and he did admit to being gay, but I think he he was uncomfortable with the questions my partner and I posed about how he reconciled his life with the official position of the Catholic Church.

He is not - or was not - celibate.

I was friends with a former priest for years who told us a lot of stories about his time in the clergy. He had AIDS and when the church found out they forced him to retire. It was a shame because he was a very insightful guy, and he was great at giving advice, which was something he said he did a lot as a priest. He enjoyed helping people.

According to my friend, one of the biggest myths is priests don't have sex. Some don't, but most engage in sex acts on a regular basis, often with other members of the clergy. He also told us that the gay priests were usually behind unmasking the child rapists and had made it one of his personal goals to get those guys removed from the church. That's probably another reason he was forced into retirement.

He was also kinky as fuck. Heavily into BDSM, was an annual attendee at Folsom Street, Southern Decadence, etc.

At the end of his life, he was ready and happy to meet his god. He felt he had done a lot of good in this world and told us that's all the Catholic god truly cares about.

OP, why are you asking this here ?

Are you even Catholic?

R14 Op here. No, I’m not Catholic. Just got to thinking about this, incidental to a conversation I was having about clergy in general.

Most of us are, OP.

I have no problem with a priest having sex. What I do have a problem with is if that very same priest is getting up on Sunday and saying words that judge the people and make their lives more difficult. I know priests who have sexual relationships and they never place burdens on their parishioners with regard to the Church's teachings on human sexuality.

I'm sure there were lots of priests in the same situation, R13, though he sounds like a special person. I think there must have been so many gay men who died of AIDS but who died secret deaths due to their circumstances - e.g. gay Hasidic men in New York who may have developed AIDS early on but whose stories have been kept totally secret by their families.

There was this awesome reality show about 15 years called the Monastery. About 6 or so British men lived in a Benedictine monastery retreat for a few weeks, and attended a reunion show a year later. There were men of various religions with from devoted to lapsed plus an atheist and an agnostic.

Basically it was a form of therapy for the men. It is a silent order but they talked constantly. They did their work, buddied up with another priest who they confused in and had group sessions with the Abbott, a youngish, dynamic intellectual. One of the priest-buddies was very nelly, think Derek Jacobi at his most fruity. Anyway it was a really interesting show. The man who was not spiritual remained non-spiritual, it the men who were spiritual became moreso. I guess faith really is a gift.

[quote]R12 My (gay) cousin is a Monsignor (basically, an honorific used for a priest). He is not - or was not - celibate.

So he’s as much of a hypothetical joke as the rest of his church.

Classy.

[quote]R13 At the end of his life, he was ready and happy to meet his god. He felt he had done a lot of good in this world and told us that's all the Catholic god truly cares about.

Whatever helped him sleep at night, I guess.

Odd that he would throw out almost all the teachings of the Bible… (I mean, if a generic “do good in the world” is “the message,” why is that damn book over 1,000 pages long?)

R21

My comparative religions professor summed up each of the Abrahamic faiths in one word:

Judaism: Obedience

Christianity: Love

Islam: Respect

And you believed it?

I don't have a problem with priests having sex. Just not with children.

The priests who preach hate against gays are almost always gay. Same with Protestant ministers…and closet cases of any and no faith. Cockgobbler, for one. Preached hate against the gays not from the pulpit but by voting against every pro-gay legislation.

Priests are catered to and seldom have to answer to anybody. It makes for a very unattractive type of person.

As I understand it, the original rule about celibacy had to do with too many priests having kids, and the little bastards needing to be taken care of with land and money, CHURCH LAND AND MONEY, bitches. That was malus so the church had to put a stop to that nonsense, quite rightly. However, if two priests need to get their freak on, well, God and the Pope should let that slide.

OH FATHER

I remember when I was young a priest hitting on me at a gay bar. He had recognizable clerical clothes on. I was shocked and gave him a priggish lecture on how he had no business cruising men in a gay bar. I really regret, looking back, that moralistic attitude.

[quote] Are You A Gay Catholic Priest?

Yes.

[quote]How do you handle celibacy?

I don’t. Father Tim from two parishes over handles it for me. After a pint or two of Guinness, he does more than handle it.

I'm gay and Catholic and an eldergay. I go to 9am mass on Sunday to a lovely church which is gay accepting. They don't make a big deal about but I know I'm not going any anti-gay shit. It's spiritual and helps me out and I like the music. I donate to charity and to them.

I don't really at this stage in life give a fuck about the other shit in the Church. And those of you who say "Oh I don't understand how you can do that!" are tiresome shits and can fuck off.

Priest on priest action sounds hot.

I worked at St Vincent's Hospital in the West Village years ago. It was AIDS central. So many priests there were gay and we lost many of them to AIDS.

I've always wanted to try priest

In the words of Stephen Sondheim, delivered by Angela Lansbury, "Try a little priest."

[quote] I remember when I was young a priest hitting on me at a gay bar. He had recognizable clerical clothes on.

Are you telling me that a priest was at a gay bar wearing clerical attire? Black pants, black clerical shirt, and a collar?

That is very hard to believe.

Priest, the 1994 film starring Linus Roache, is hot. The first "gay movie" I saw in a theater!

This reminded me of that priest in Louisiana who was photographed during Mardi Gras looking like a circuit queen. He was told to resign, but his parishioners loved him anyway and lobbied for him to stay. He's still a priest and leads a ministry dedicated to feeding the poor.

R36 True nevertheless. He wasn't an RC priest, Greek Orthodox, as I remember. He didn't have the full black robe on or the hat, but as I remember, he was wearing a black shirt with a clerical collar. I could be mistaken about the clothes--it was a long time ago--but I knew right away he was a priest, He did tell me right away; he wasn't trying to hide it. Maybe he'd drunk too much that day and wasn't using good judgment. Alcoholism is a problem among priests.

R38, why resign? Going to Mardi Gras doesn't make you a bad person and is not proof of not being celibate.

R21 You evangelicals are smug cunts, aren't you?

r39, I was briefly part of a group led by a Greek Orthodox priest. An alcoholic who always had a beer in one hand. It was very disconcerting to me.

R21 "Odd that he would throw out almost all the teachings of the Bible… (I mean, if a generic “do good in the world” is “the message,” why is that damn book over 1,000 pages long?)"

It's long because it's chock full of bizarre, archaic proscriptions, witch-doctor sham tricks and miracles, bloody-minded exhortations to slaughter other tribes, etc.

I’ve always had hots for hot priests ever since I watched the second season of Fleabag. Any hot RC priests here?

^I like your attitude!

true r21. Did he even make the proper animal sacrifice at the Temple to atone?

Ken Olin played a hot priest on Falcon Crest.

I’m in it for the fabulous robes!

Why do you ask?

I have forbidden any gay Catholic priests after me. I am the last gay in the village.

I would fuck the hell out of a priest

I was friends with a priest who died of AIDS. I recall the local Church wanting to avoid any reference to the priest's cause of death but the priest insisted that his homosexuality and his having AIDS be made public. The Church changed course and allowed it the truth to be shared.

So many gay priests. So many.

Reminds of The Thorn Birds. Gay priest tried to turn hetero. Epic fail.

Actually, R23, Islam is submission. That's what islam means.

^Richard Chamberlain IS STILL ALIVE!

R56, never said he was dead, douche.

R57 Who said you did?

The Catholic Church provides a spiritual and intellectual home for men, gay or straight. Doctrinal disputes and canon law are fascinating to them. The hierarchy also provides clear lines of influence and advancement.

[quote] How do you cope with celibacy?

Oh, my sides!

Does anyone actually become a priest nowadays?

I know several guys who left priesthood. I think they're happier having left the dysfunction of it all but they haven't had an easy time of adjusting to normal life.

I had a FB who went pretty high in the priesthood (like saying mass with the Pope) and was the pride of his family for his success. He told his family he was gay at the same time he told them he was leaving the priesthood.

His family was far more disappointed in his leaving the priesthood

As a Catholic gay man, I will go to Mass with my husband when the time comes. Especially after reading all this -- I really am just going to be the best person I can be with my flaws included. Being godfearing is one thing, but living out of element because of religion is a much worse sin. Like lipstick on a pig or a wolf in sheep's clothing (i.e conservatives).

I don't understand how anyone would want to support a Church that essentially hates gays.

R65, it’s not just essentially. They HATE gays

[quote] it’s not just essentially. They HATE gays

Who is THEY? I know so many religious sisters who are such good friends to the gay community. And I know a good many gay priests and religious brothers who are gay and gay friendly.

The parish I belong to is very gay affirming and has a ministry to LGBTQ members.

[quote] The Catholic Church provides a[n]...intellectual home for men

?!?!?!?!

It's teachings are an insult to my intellect

[quote] Who is THEY? I know so many religious sisters who are such good friends to the gay community. And I know a good many gay priests and religious brothers who are gay and gay friendly.

THEY is official church policies and doctrines.

I know many good Republicans. The GOP is still odious and these people support that party

The Catholic Church embraced and supported the Nazi Regime because at least they weren’t “the godless communists” (ie, Mother Russia.)

According to a Pew study, nearly 80% of those who leave the Catholic Church, do so before they turn 23. Obviously, the Church's failure to identify with them isn't going away any time soon.

Anyone who becomes a priest is mentally ill. There is absolutely no reason a sane person in the 21st century living in a first world country does that. The priesthood was for queers and the mentally ill. Families stuck their crazy family members in there to avoid being institutionalized. Unmarried dykes went into the sisterhood too.

The majority of American adults are not associated with any church.

Here.

And.

I tricked with a priest who likes me to Cum on the body of Christ cracker and then he’s eat it. He was also into foot worship (giving)

R78 - that’s sickening and demonic. If that’s your idea of a kink; get help.

I agree with R79. I hope that those "crackers" were not consecrated. If so, that priest should be reported.

R78 is full of shit. It was probably a saltine or Ritz cracker.

At the very least, I hope it was an unconsecrated wafer.

But I suspect he made it up to be anti-Catholic.

If that’s true R78, you’re going to Hell, missy.

I would have to agree with R83.

[quote] I tricked with a priest who likes me to Cum on the body of Christ cracker and then he’s eat it

They are just crackers unless consecrated by the priest at mass, where they become the actual body and blood of Christ.

Thus, Catholicism includes a cannibalistic ritual among its ceremonies. fun!

[quote] Thus, Catholicism includes a cannibalistic ritual among its ceremonies. fun!

What a stupid thing to say.

There have been a few cases of priests having sex with each other and with other men in the sanctuaries of Irish churches recently. The speculation is that it's their way of rebelling against the Church because they have this love-hate relationship with it.

[quote] Anyone who becomes a priest is mentally ill. There is absolutely no reason a sane person in the 21st century living in a first world country does that. The priesthood was for queers and the mentally ill.

What retards the clergy are for entering a profession that provides a stipend, food, housing and healthcare FOR LIFE.

[quote] There have been a few cases of priests having sex with each other and with other men in the sanctuaries of Irish churches recently. The speculation is that it's their way of rebelling against the Church because they have this love-hate relationship with it.

That is ridiculous. That's what rectories are for.

I will be honest, I’ve often thought about becoming a monk - removed from the insanity of the world, focusing on doing simple good things, etc - but the whole religious whoo-haa that goes with it is a deal breaker.

I was in religious life for several years.

R86, except for the fact that it's true. The crackers actually become the body and blood of Christ. No, not metaphorically--actually

R92....

R93, pretty gross, huh?

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him" (Jn 6:56)

Link explains that the church views the Eucharist as the actual body and blood of Christ.

The church calls it "Transubstantiation."

While the Catholic Church embraced it, protestant churches reject it.

[quote] It's teachings are an insult to my intellect

I'm Oh, dearing myself

Its teachings......

It's called a wafer, not a cracker

[quote] It's called a wafer, not a cracker

Wafer, host, altar bread - but never 'cracker'

The Catholic Priesthood has always been a shelter for gay men, men with sexual deviancy (e.g. pedos) or men just plain screwed up sexually or mentally. It's safe to argue that historically the priesthood has been a "gay profession." However, once the sexual abuse scandal came to light, the church used gay priests as scapegoats and began "screening" recruits into the seminary. Basically a "no homo" policy was adopted and any seminarian with an alleged gay past would be expelled.

Also in the early 2000s, North American Seminaries adopted a "hypermasculine" style of community stripping away some of the more academic and artistic aspect of seminary life with things like sports and "broculture" crap to try and decrease the amount of gay men in the priesthood. But I think at least 70% of priests today are gay.

R99, sorry dear, you're wrong. The Church hasn't always been a shelter for gay men, but it certainly has more than its fair share of gays in the priesthood. Some experts suggest that somewhere between 40% and 80% of Catholic clergy are gay. That's troubling in that the institution opposes who they are yet welcomes them to minister to the faithful. That said, the Church we know today is the not the Church of hundreds of years ago.

[quote] Wafer, host, altar bread - but never 'cracker'

It's also called "flesh."

Yes, Catholicism is a cannibalistic religion, but don't bring up those embarrassing parts.

I guess it didn't necessarily surprise me that so many gay men became priests. We can judge this from a 21st century perspective but 60, 80, 100 or more years ago, if you were a kind, nurturing boy with a gentle soul, the opportunities for you in life, in a world filled with backbreaking labor for work, were pretty limited. And between teacher, priest and shop keeper, priest probably had the highest spot of honor in a small town.

I think in those years, it was drilled into everyone's heads that the life of a homosexual would be a sad and lonely one - ostracized from family and community, living in a small room somewhere, susceptible to blackmail or being injured or killed for who you were. So I suppose to small town Jimmy and Danny, becoming a beloved priest seemed like a better option.

I'm not excusing the horrifying abuse scandals. I'm more of the mind of what someone said above - these men were/are human and I don't begrudge them a sexual life, just obviously not with children. But child abusers like that are attracted to any small, closed society - like athletic departments, youth groups - anywhere where they can manipulate others. And few things are as closed and hidden as the Catholic Church.

My cousin went through the schooling to become a priest, and was almost to the point of being ordained. I loved my aunt and uncle but they did a number on my cousin and he had a breakdown, married a woman, and then after the dust settled from all of THAT, came out of the closet.

R100 The Church we know today is not the same church as hundreds of years ago? Honey you're out to lunch!

MARY!

I've talked about this on another one of the many have you had sex with a priest threads, but here we go. About a decade ago now, I was dating a guy whose brother was a priest. The brother was kind to me but it was clear he was not approving of my relationship with his brother. Anyways, long story short about year after we started dating I was invited to spend a week with his family at their cottage. One evening I went out for a walk around the property (I think my boyfriend had a headache or something I can't remember why he wasn't with me) and I was approached by the priest who then after a few minutes of pleasant conversation, grabbed my crotch and started rubbing my dick through my pants, I broke away but he came after me and pinned me down and tried to take my clothes off. I managed to get free and got back to the cottage. I said nothing until a few weeks later but my boyfriend didn't believe me and it ended our relationship. Funny enough, a year ago my ex randomly messaged me on FB and apologized saying he "knows" now that I was telling the truth.

WOW, R105. Interesting story.

Is he a religious or diocesan priest?,

R105 MARY!

Joni Mitchell never lies.

"Like a priest with a pornographic watch

Looking and longing on the sly

Sure it's stricken from your uniform

But you can't get it out of your eyes."

WOW R70 - never knew that!

R103 You're delusional. The core teachings haven't changes, of course. However, is Mass celebrating in Latino only now? Are some non-Catholic clergy ordained and welcomed to serve in the Catholic faith now? Does the priest celebrate Mass with his back to the people? Are clergy the only ones running the finances at the Vatican? Are most cardinals from Italy? Lots of changes, Princess.

delusional - characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

Lololol r110. I like your style, couldn’t have been cuntier myself.

I was friends with a priest and his lover for years. I'm in New Orleans and so are they. My priest friend had been in the seminary(which paid his college education). He dropped out of the seminary to have fun and be himself. And his job was at a bank where he had no power and was just a cog in the machine. So he went back into the priesthood. This is what he's gotten for years now. 1. Excellent health care. 2. A "getaway" condo in Diamondhead Miss. where he can have sex parties etc. 3. Trips all around the world on his parishioners dime. 4. A new car every two years and I don't mean cheap cars. 5. Lots and lots of gifts from parishioners such as designer clothes and very nice furniture. 6. Women who clean the rectory and cook him meals. 7. His lover is also a priest and has his own condo in Diamondhead. 8. He became a priest for the goodies and the POWER. Which he never would have had being just a regular guy at a bank. He is anti woman and acts anti gay in public. 9. 98% of the priests in New Orleans are gay and almost all have lovers on the side. Almost all the money they make off their "flock" goes to Rome and does not stay in New Orleans.

I have nothing to do with him now after finding out he knew about a pedophile priest and said nothing. Being a priest is a very lucrative occupation if your gay.

R113 — Gay Catholic from New Orleans here. I have family who lives in Diamondhead, nice area. I would ask where his church is, but honestly I wouldn’t want get him in trouble. The real question: is he older or younger?

I watch Mass from St Louis Cathedral on the tv every Sunday I can. As much as I try to be respectful, I always wonder which of the present clergy is gay. It is always pleasant to be a part of, but I know most of our faith is just song and dance.

Yes, OP, I AM a gay Catholic priest, a Brazilian one with a gigantic endowment.

This thread makes me appreciate that my faith allows LGBT people and people with active sex lives (dating, etc.) to be ministers.

No. I have been to a number of churches, currently including the Catholic Church, but I want to be my own man and not be restricted by the teachings of any given church. That's why God gave us free will and a mind of own own - use them!!!

The Church is irrelevant for so many Catholics because it refuses to relate to the current world situation. The pews are nearly empty and the money isn't pouring in as before.

Pious and pretty.

I love the vestments that the priests wear. The Catholics really know how to put on a show!!

r121

W

E

R

Q!!!

Does anyone watch daily mass on the EWTN network? I always wonder which priests are gay and who's zooming who.

Just assume 80% of them are gay. Perhaps 20% of those aren't sexually active but the rest are.

[quote] Are some non-Catholic clergy ordained and welcomed to serve in the Catholic faith now?

What on earth does this mean? Perhaps you mean that the Catholic Church welcomes priests who were ordained in the Episcopal Church to convert and continue to use the Book of Common Prayer? This is called the Anglican Use. Is that what you mean?

R106 I think he was a diocesan priest, he wasn't part of an order. I remember he was heavily involved in youth ministry, probably by default given at the time I'm guessing he was in early to mid-30s.

[quote] Almost all the money they make off their "flock" goes to Rome and does not stay in New Orleans.

Yes, organized religion of any sort is usually a money grab

[quote] Yes, organized religion of any sort is usually a money grab

Not true with the Catholic Church. Parishes must support themselves. They receive no money from their diocese or from Rome. If a parish can't pay staff salaries and benefits, utilities, etc, then they have to close. People act like the church takes money from people to build up their bank accounts. This is simply not true. One collection a year goes to support the Pope's charitable works — this collection is called "Peter's Pence."

What's up with all the Catholic apologists on this thread? Or is it just one person? The Catholic Church is one of the most corrupt and vile institutions on the planet and has the blood of millions on its hands (inquisitions, residential schools, etc.) It is anti-woman, anti-lgbtq, has openly harbored pedophiles etc. It has a property portfolio of $30 billion alone, and does not pay taxes in most developed countries. It created it's own country to decrease it's already pitifully small accountability. Let's stop pretending the church (and most organized religions) extols any kind of moral virtue. Religions were created to keep poor people in their place by promising them that their shit lives on Earth would be rewarded with eternal life after death.

[quote] Religions were created to keep poor people in their place by promising them that their shit lives on Earth would be rewarded with eternal life after death.

Hear that you sheep? Your shit lives are the best you’re gonna get. Death will be an improvement.

[quote]I’m in it for the fabulous robes!

The caftan is strong in these ones.

[quote] Not true with the Catholic Church. Parishes must support themselves. They receive no money from their diocese or from Rome. If a parish can't pay staff salaries and benefits, utilities, etc, then they have to close. People act like the church takes money from people to build up their bank accounts. This is simply not true. One collection a year goes to support the Pope's charitable works — this collection is called "Peter's Pence."

Um, when I go to Vatican and see the palaces there, I'm thinking they're getting that money from the parishioners. Read R113 which confirms so much about where that money is going.

[quote] Um, when I go to Vatican and see the palaces there, I'm thinking they're getting that money from the parishioners. Read [R113] which confirms so much about where that money is going.

Um, what you see at the Vatican has very little (probably nothing) to do with one's local parish. I have worked for the Catholic Church for over 25 years and know that parishes do not send money anywhere except for the annual Peter's Pence collection and for collections for their own diocese. You are naive to think that the art, wealth, property, etc that you see at the Vatican is coming from Catholic parishes. Most parishes have trouble making ends meet...they certainly are not in a position to be sending money elsewhere. Sorry to burst your bubble.

R113 (who, by the way, does not seem very intelligent and "confirms" nothing as far as I'm concerned) is referring to the generosity of parishioners to their priests. That is very true. Priests are the recipients of lots of nice things from their parishioners. This is not the same as saying that Catholic parishes are sending money to the Vatican.

1. Excellent health care. — TRUE Priests and lay employees of the Church get health coverage. I'm not sure I'd call it "excellent" but it's fine. The health coverage varies depending on the diocese. It is not universal.

2. A "getaway" condo in Diamondhead Miss. where he can have sex parties etc. — Who knows what this means. Diocesan priests can purchase property if they have the money to do so. The Church is certainly not buying condos for priests. They have rectories to live in.

3. Trips all around the world on his parishioners dime. — Hardly. Parish priests make on average $30K a year. They are not getting rich working for the Church. And, the amount a priest can earn is governed by the diocese and is the same across the board. In other words, if a priest is pastor of a small parish, he makes the same amount of money as a priest who might be running two or three parishes. Or a priest who is a college president. They are not allowed to make more money than what the diocese decides. In my diocese that is around $30K.

4. A new car every two years and I don't mean cheap cars. — Priests are required to purchase their own cars and insurance. They can get reimbursed for milage but they have to keep track of it and fill out paperwork. It is crazy to believe that a diocese purchases cars for priests or that parishes purchase cars for priests. This is absolutely false.

5. Lots and lots of gifts from parishioners such as designer clothes and very nice furniture. — Sure. This can happen. As I said above, parishioners are often very generous to priests whom they like. People also know that priests don't make much money.

6. Women who clean the rectory and cook him meals. — This is not nearly as true as it was 30 years ago. It used to be very common that a rectory with three or four priests would have a housekeeper and a cook. These days, priests often live alone in rectories and younger priests don't really want someone in the rectory, doing their laundry, cleaning, and cooking. So, what often happens is the cleaning service that cleans the church might also clean the rectory once a week. This does not typically mean making a priest's bed or doing his laundry. And, most priests prefer cooking for themselves. The priests I know prefer more privacy in the rectory, rather than having people in there working.

7. His lover is also a priest and has his own condo in Diamondhead. — Could be. That's believable.

8. He became a priest for the goodies and the POWER. Which he never would have had being just a regular guy at a bank. — If this is true, it's pathetic.

PS: "Almost all the money they make off their "flock" goes to Rome and does not stay in New Orleans." — This is crazy. Priests and parishes are not sending money to Rome. It is very expensive to run a parish. The parishes I am familiar with have annual operating budgets of well over a million dollars. There are often ten or more people on a parish staff. A lot more if there is a school. Salaries and benefits cost a lot of money.

One more thing: parishes are routinely audited by both the diocese and also by a third party. Everything is accounted for and there are parish finance councils made up of lay parishioners who help set the budget, prepare quarterly reports for both the parishioners and for the diocese, and monitor the financial health of the parish.

Priests are not even allowed to take part in the counting of the weekly collection. There are alternating "teams" of counters (at least three people on each team) who count the collection, put it in sealed bank bags, and deliver it to a night deposit box. Priests are forbidden to be part of any of this.

Thank you, R133, for the intelligent and thorough responses.

About 15 years ago, in the midst of my daddy phase, I hooked up with a beautiful man who had been a Jesuit priest. Beautiful inside and out. Early fifties, on the hippie side of things, amazing body, etc.

Anyway, he'd left the Jesuits about 7-8 years before. We chatted a bit about the Jesuits and then the Catholic Church.

He mentioned that a few years before, he'd gone on a retreat with an old college friend who became a Catholic priest, and thought he was in for an actual mellow retreat. Which was not what he got.

Paraphrasing here - in a very snarky voice it was something like "It wasn't the sex between men that was an issue, lad, that's a beautiful thing. It's the fact that they were blaring loud, inharmonious music and parading around in cassocks and tiaras to a song which repeated the phrase, "you better work."

So the priests were either fucking around or serving royal realness while RuPaul played in the background. Alrighty, then.

He said while he'd heard of them before, that was the first weekend he'd ever been around someone who was partaking in poppers - close enough to smell them himself.

Whaddabout Greek orthodox monks? I'm going to Mount Athos later this year.

R133 this is R113. You obviously don't know New Orleans or the catholics that live here. I've always found that somebody who calls an anonymous person on the internet unintelligent is projecting. A lot of rich catholics in New Orleans. The priest I'm talking about got a car every two years from wealthy parishioners not the diocese. He went to a Florida condo every year with 5 priest friends as a gift from a wealthy Lady(who had no idea he brought 5 priests with him). He also inherited money from a wealthy catholic Lady. Maybe where you live the Women don't clean or cook for the priest. They do here. His Diamondhead condo he paid for obviously NOT the diocese(he never told the diocese about his condo). I never said the diocese bought anything!!!! YOU assumed that. Yes he has travelled all over the world via his wealthy parishioners paying for it. I knew the priest that did finances here etc. That priest said they sent most of the money to Rome(from the parishes around New Orleans and New Orleans) and why wouldn't I believe that? Maybe he was lying? The catholic church/Rome is one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. Yes he really did become a priest for the goodies and the power. Not all diocese are the same. And the priest I'm talking about never stole any money. I don't know why you assumed that? As a "Diocesan Employee" maybe you know some bishops actually look the other way with some of the priests(they do here). I get your upset by what I wrote. I stand by what I said. And my former friend the priest is a scumball/hypocrite. I'm not a catholic. I'm a Unitarian.

If the Catholic Church does get money from parishioners, where goes it get its vast amounts of money from??

Kiss me on the mouth, as if we were lovers!!!

R113/R139 – While I do not live in New Orleans, I do know how the Catholic Church operates. Here are my responses to you:

"A lot of rich catholics in New Orleans." —Yes, I'm sure there are. So, too, are there a lot of wealthy Catholics where I live.

"The priest I'm talking about got a car every two years from wealthy parishioners not the diocese." —Makes sense. That's what I said. Catholics are often generous with their priests. I was under the mistaken impression that in your earlier post you were saying that the priest used parish money to purchase a car. I, too, know a priest who has been the recipient of cars and pick-up trucks from generous parishioners.

"He went to a Florida condo every year with 5 priest friends as a gift from a wealthy Lady." —This is not at all unusual. I am friends with a priest who is flown on a private plane to a very expensive Caribbean island every winter. Going to a Florida condo is no big deal. I also know a priest who has full use of a lovely condo in Umbria and I've gone there with him. Florida? Doesn't sound inappropriate or extravagant to me.

"He also inherited money from a wealthy catholic Lady." —Again, so what. Not at all surprising. What is surprising to me is that you capitalize 'Lady' but not 'Catholic.'

"Maybe where you live the Women don't clean or cook for the priest. They do here." —That's fine. As I said, often rectories employ someone (doesn't have to be a female) to cook and to clean. My only point is that this happens less frequently than it used to. Are you familiar with many parishes and how they operate? Or are you just retelling something that was spoken to you? Rectories having someone cooking &/or cleaning is hardly a big deal.

"His Diamondhead condo he paid for obviously NOT the diocese(he never told the diocese about his condo). I never said the diocese bought anything!!!! YOU assumed that." —Okay, then what is the big deal? Why bring it up? Don't you think that priests should be able to buy a condo wherever they like? Why is this your business? What you DID say was, "This is what he's 'gotten' for years now....A "getaway" condo in Diamondhead Miss. where he can have sex parties etc." —When you say "This is what he's gotten for years now" you make it sound illicit or ill-gotten. A man purchased a condo in Diamondhead, MS. So what? Diamondhead has a lower cost of living than most other parts of the country and is a retirement and family friendly community. I know priests with condos in Nantucket; Martha's Vineyard; Newport, RI; Key West, FL; Palm Beach, FL; and Anguilla in the Eastern Caribbean. This is not my business. If a priest can live in a rectory and save his money or has inherited some money and wants to buy a condo somewhere, good for him. You do know that diocesan priests do NOT make a vow of poverty, right? And you said, "He never told the diocese about his condo." Why should he? Do you think that diocesan leaders care where their priests own property? I can tell you right now, they don't. It's the priest's business.

"Yes he has travelled all over the world via his wealthy parishioners paying for it." —Okay. That's within his rights.

"I knew the priest that did finances here etc. That priest said they sent most of the money to Rome(from the parishes around New Orleans and New Orleans) and why wouldn't I believe that? Maybe he was lying?" —Yes, it sounds like he was exaggerating, lying, or that you misunderstood him. "They" send most of the money to Rome? Absolutely not true. How do you think parishes could survive financially if they really were sending "most of the money to Rome?" Parishes are run like small businesses. They need to cover their costs. They need to pay their staffs. They need to pay for routine and deferred maintenance. They need to have some money in the bank for when something comes up. They do NOT send most of their money (or any of their money to Romeo). Parishes are assessed a tax that they have to pay their diocese. This is to support the works and infrastructure of the diocese.

PART TWO:

"The catholic church/Rome is one of the wealthiest companies on the planet." —I wouldn't call it a 'company' but you are correct in saying that the Catholic Church has a lot of money/property/real estate/art/etc. I just don't think that you understand how it works.

"Not all diocese are the same." —This is a true but not entirely true statement. Each diocese runs its own ship, but there are standards and procedures that are universal. The Church has the Code of Canon Law that regulates much of the workings of the Church.

"Yes he really did become a priest for the goodies and the power." —Then, as I said in my previous post, he is pathetic and every organization has some bad apples.

"I get your upset by what I wrote. I stand by what I said." —I'm not particularly upset. And I know full well that the Catholic Church is imperfect. I just like the truth to be known. And a Unitarian reporting on things that a priest who is described as "a scum ball/hypocrite" has said hardly qualifies as unbiased and informed reporting. My reporting, however, is factual and comes from someone (me) who IS Catholic and who is very involved in the life and workings of the Church.

That is all.

Too involved. Your inability to acknowledge the "imperfections" of the Catholic church is evident. And when I say imperfections I mean the established damaging orthodoxy, obscene wealth and refusal of accountability for sex crimes.

[quote]R133 I have worked for the Catholic Church for over 25 years

Why??

[quote] Too involved. Your inability to acknowledge the "imperfections" of the Catholic church is evident. And when I say imperfections I mean the established damaging orthodoxy, obscene wealth and refusal of accountability for sex crimes.

Sorry, buddy, I certainly acknowledge the imperfections of the Catholic Church and I'm sorry if you think I'm "too involved." I said above, "And I know full well that the Catholic Church is imperfect. I just like the truth to be known." But this post is not about sex crimes. You might think that the only thing that can be spoken of with regard to the Catholic Church is sex crimes, but I was just responding to what someone else posted and he says nothing on that topic.

With regard to the 'obscene wealth' — the Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services in the world. It probably runs more schools than any other single organization worldwide. Similarly, the Catholic Church owns and operates more universities than any other single organization, as well as more hospitals and more health clinics. Hundreds of thousands of charities spring forth from the Catholic Church—food banks, clothing banks, housing, hospitals, schools, universities, outreach, childcare, legal services, counseling, job training, emergency assistance, and dozens of other services. All provided to anyone in need, regardless of their religious beliefs, ethnicity, nationality, race, or any other basis.

The Holy See and its various organizations fund itself through collections from the many dioceses, from investments, and through the tourist activities of people visiting museums etc. Furthermore, the artwork and other items that the Catholic Church has aren't particularly liquid in a financial sense. You can't easily sell a dozen Michelangelo masterworks because there is no market for them. They are only worth millions because they are rare; and if you flood the market with them, their value drops. So if you want to know how much money the Catholic Church "has" you then have to add up all the money that every diocese on earth has; some are flush, some are poor and destitute. Regardless, this is not a common pool of money in any way. The Vatican does not have access to all this money, directly or indirectly.

[quote] Why??

Why? Because I applied for a good position and was given the job.

Because I believe in the mission of the Church and think that despite a lot of areas that need changing, the Church does a lot of good in the world.

Yikes!

Hate to think who else R147 would have worked for in other times in history.

And what good is it if it promotes anti-gay beliefs and denies women in developing countries choices? You're a fool. Worse, a zealous fool. The most dangerous kind. Your church is the sum of its parts and the bad ones crush the merits.

"need changing" "imperfections"... talk about whitewash.

[quote] Hate to think who else [R147] would have worked for in other times in history.

Oh come on...let your mind run wild.

R147 hope they don't know you're gay, otherwise they can fire you citing "freedom of religion." Have fun with that, enjoy your celibate life.

[quote] hope they don't know you're gay, otherwise they can fire you citing "freedom of religion." Have fun with that, enjoy your celibate life.

The Catholic Church never fires people who are gay simply because they are gay. But to respond to your statement, they do know I'm gay and my partner is also involved in the work of the diocese.

And you sound like a bitter and unpleasant queen.

So add hypocrisy to the many character flaws of Holy Church.

And Diocesan Employee needs to brush up her Christian turning of the other cheek.

Zealot forgive us, we know exactly what we do.

It's not necessarily true that parishes must be financially self-sufficient, or else they must close. The final decision is the bishop's, however, many parishes are kept open with financial support from the diocese, or other sources. It's not at all uncommon.

I hate priests. I hate religion. I hate everything about them and their disgusting mafia of an oily heist.

R155 You waste your time, DL is full of bitter queens. They likewise have no grip either about religion nor culture at large. History for them beings, and for many seems to end, at the 50s in the USA. They can waste away countless hours discussing sour movies, homophobic stars and fantasizing about the times were queers were baited and offed at any instance, without even the semblance of any due process. They are clearly myopic, and blame anyone who isn't dead inside for finding publicly prolapsing distasteful. And they care not one jot about poverty or the riches of the Church, they are hypocrites who treat their dogs better off than many human beings they see daily. They'd do fine for a character in a novel of Flannery O'Connor, since they are generally, but particularly, in (ir)religious matters, grotesque. Most people here found their lives empty and meaningless at 40 when any semblance of youth abandoned them, they go on with their lives only because they have to care for their elderly mothers, while being full of spite against anyone who finds meaning in the Faith of countless great people.

Enjoy your stay, R159.

The Catholic Church is a cabal of self-loathing homosexual misogynists and fascists.

I'm a former Catholic. I know.

R155 "The Catholic Church never fires people who are gay simply because they are gay." BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!

R159 Someone needs a drink or stiff cock. Honey, we understand history just fine that's why we loath the catholic church and other religious institutions.

It's no accident that I already blocked most of the Catholic apologists in this thread. I block both Trumpers and extreme transphobes on sight.

R162 Sweaty that'd be funny as a joke, but you are saying it seriously. Why don't you try to stick that hatred of yours up your prolapsed, reeky and stinky anus? Quite sure you'd enjoy it more than being here in conversation with a self-loathing homosexual misogynist fascist.

R163 That's a blessing for anyone you have blocked, doubt they can miss your mindless drivel.

Nah R163 - I also tried to block the Trumptards but then I saw that poster's posts had all disappeared and then, more MAGA trolls pop up all the time. Sock puppet accounts.

Sorry but you cannot be a proud gay man and be a practising catholic.

R166 - you can't be a proud gay man or a proud female and bow to a religion that denigrates you and tells you that you are a sinner by design. WTF?

[quote] And Diocesan Employee needs to brush up her Christian turning of the other cheek.

And why do I need to do that?

Nice use of the feminine pronoun. You sound like an old queen.

There’s a priest in the NYC who is well known on the leather fisting circuit. He posts on Asspig. He doesn’t say he’s a priest but friends tell me he is

[quote] It's not necessarily true that parishes must be financially self-sufficient, or else they must close. The final decision is the bishop's, however, many parishes are kept open with financial support from the diocese, or other sources. It's not at all uncommon.

True...but as a rule, parishes need to be self-sufficient. In my diocese we provide financial assistance to no more than three parishes. If a parish that is not in a particularly poor neighborhood cannot pay their bills, they will have to close. The people need to support their parish. The parishes that receive help get that assistance because the Church is committed to helping the poor and does not want to close parishes in poor areas.

[quote] I hate priests. I hate religion. I hate everything about them and their disgusting mafia of an oily heist.

You sound like a lovely person.

R159, I think I agree with you. In particular, I like what you say about Flannery O'Connor. This thread is all the proof one needs that so many of the commenters out here are hateful and pathetic people.

R171 - I actually am lovely. Also, I get away with a lot die to my "top-blanche".

[quote]You sound like an old queen.

And you sound like a typical Christian - real vicious once you get beneath the faux piety. Hypocrite.

Matthew Henry’s comment on this verse is helpful: “Suffer any injury that can be borne, for the sake of peace, committing your concerns to the Lord’s keeping. And the sum of all is, that Christians must avoid disputing and striving. If any say, Flesh and blood cannot pass by such an affront, let them remember, that flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God; and those who act upon right principles will have most peace and comfort” (Concise Commentary, entry for Matthew 5:38).

Hypocrite.

[quote] "The Catholic Church never fires people who are gay simply because they are gay." BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!! - !!!

Not sure why you're laughing. You must be confusing the Catholic Church with an Evangelical church. It is right in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states: "Homosexual desire is not to be considered sinful. People who are homosexual must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."

It is the policy in my diocese that no one should ever lose a job because they are gay. Catholic schools are full of gay teachers. Parishes are full of gay organists, pastoral associates, singers, etc.

[quote] And you sound like a typical Christian - real vicious once you get beneath the faux piety. Hypocrite.

Wow. I'm looking back and don't see any reason you should call me "real vicious." I'd like to hear from others out here. Have I been vicious? Is my supposed "piety" faux? I don't think I even consider myself particularly pious.

[quote] would have worked for in other times in history.

Mein Fuhrer!

Constantly invoking old queen on a gay board is what they taught you at charm school?

Can we talk about which social media/vlogger priests we think are gay?

I think Fr. Casey Cole is not as straight as he claims

Fr. Dan Horan totally gay

Fr. Mike Schmitz don't know about his sexuality but he totally has crazy eyes.

My sister had a two year affair with a Catholic priest. For her it was the real deal, at least she thought so. For him not so much. The affair ended when she found out he was also sleeping with two other women.

Women? What a rebel.

[quote] Sorry but you cannot be a proud gay man and be a practising catholic.

Oh, thanks for letting me know. What should I do? Should I renounce my faith? Give up my career? I wish I had met you thirty years ago,—now I'm not sure how to move forward in life. Can I be proud but not gay? Gay but not proud? Catholic but not gay? Proud but not Catholic?

Practicing is spelled 'practicing.'

Sorry, you cannot be considered educated or worth listening to if you can't spell 'practicing.'

R183 in every English speaking country except America it's "practising"

[quote] Mein Fuhrer!

Oh, so working for the Catholic Church is now being likened to being a Nazi.

Good to know.

[quote] Fr. Dan Horan totally gay

What do you have against Dan Horan? He is progressive and one of the good priests out there.

I just blocked the apologist and half the thread just disappeared. So clearly it's just the same guy posting. Poor sap.

R180 I'm 99.9% sure Dan Horan is gay.

[quote] in every English speaking country except America it's "practising"

You should say "the United States" not "America"

Welcome to 2021. Ever hear of South America?

R185 - not a Nazi but sort of like a Kapo.

Monsignor is an honorary title given to priests who do something special for the church, Today, it means guys who bring in the money.

In the 1950s New York's Archbishop Francis Cardinal Spellman (known as Franny by friends) had a Saturday night party, On Monday, the cute priests received notice they'd become Monsignors.

A now-deceased priest friend said "Chastity? I thought it was charity, so I gave to away all those years."

[quote] I'm 99.9% sure Dan Horan is gay.

So what? Has he denied it? A priest is gay. Wow.

R187 how are you so sure about Fr Dan Horan? Do you know him?

Thank god I'm an atheist!

[quote] I just blocked the apologist and half the thread just disappeared. So clearly it's just the same guy posting. Poor sap.

It's not like I'm posting under a variety of names. It should have been just as clear to this genius before he blocked me. No big revelation...I have signed everything I've posted.

He is a very vocal ally of LGBTQ and takes a lot of heat for it from conservative Catholics.

Who is Dan Horan? Pic? I agree with Diocese Employee. The rest of you are argumentive, bitter assheads. Go back to your TikTokFuk threads!

Well I do know Dan Horan and he's a great guy and a wonderful priest.

Soon after his election in March 2013, Pope Francis abolished the conferral of the honorific title of 'Monsignor' except to members of the Holy See's diplomatic service. He did this in an effort to eliminate careerism within the clergy.

R192 & R195 Horan is, as R195 states, a very vocal alley of the LGBTQ+. Beyond the fact that I feel any priest who is very support of gay rights is probably gay himself, he uses inclusive wording when he writes about LGBTQ+ issues that are just on the cusp of saying I am part of the LGBTQ community too.

It used to be my fantasy to have sex with a priest but nowadays they’re all old and decrepit

Here you go, R196

Do priests actually believe the bullshit that permeates Christianity?

Do they really believer there’s a magical man in the sky directing the universe?

I don't know if the Dildoean Employee believes in the sky fair, but he certainly hasn't mastered the meek inheriting the earth... a good Christian would leave the insults and scorn to we heathens, sinners and vicious old queens.

R198 it’s possible, but my impression is that he speaks in solidarity with many oppressed groups as a Franciscan, so the whole guilt by association angle rings hollow.

[quote] It used to be my fantasy to have sex with a priest but nowadays they’re all old and decrepit

No, they are not all old and decrepit.

In the Seminary students are discouraged from "Particular Friendships." I know two priests who met in Sem and were together for a few years. after ordination. An unwritten rule is that if you have sex, do it outside of your Diocese. Less chance of anyone knowing you. A Jersey priest I knew went to the St Mark's baths in Manhattan on Saturday nights.

These calendars are great.

R201 & R202 Oh what a meanies we have here. Whatever profanity he says is between him and his confessor, you heathens have no say about the life of the Church, how its parts act or do not act. I for one, as someone who has read Jerome, I have no particular qualms in imitating him and calling a whore a whore, and a bitter queen a bitter queen. You dolts will whither away, and leave behind no trace other than an apartment stinking of faeces, but as Clement says Christianity is no mean philosophy, it has survived the might of the Roman Empire, it certainly will survive a bunch of pansies.

R207, thank you, Father.

On "All in the Family" when a Religious Sister came to the door, Archie told Edith "No matter what she tells you, it all goes to buy gold candle sticks.":

R205 Tom Rastrelli, a former priest who is gay, wrote a book very recently and he expressed similar sentiments. There is a culture of turning a blind eye to priests who have sex with other men and actually more concern with (the small number of) straight priests who have affairs with women due to the risk of pregnancy and likelihood that priest will leave to get married.

About a year ago, a Catholic School fired an unmarried teacher who became pregnant. Sued for her job. Court ruled against her.

And more likelihood a frau will tell someone lol

*likely

[quote] On "All in the Family" when a Religious Sister came to the door, Archie told Edith "No matter what she tells you, it all goes to buy gold candle sticks."

That's very amusing!

R211 Here in Canada in the last couple years there have been at least a dozen cases of teachers being fired from Catholic schools for being gay (e.g. living with their partners). I can't remember if there was court cases but basically the "Freedom of religion" granted to catholic schools allowed them to get away with it. There was also a huge controversy earlier this year when the Toronto Catholic School board refused to post a suicide crisis hot line aimed at LGBTQ+ youth, and they continue to fight any reference to LGBTQ+ peoples in sex education classes.

What's a few lies to defend the one true church? It comes naturally to them.

[quote] Do they really believer there’s a magical man in the sky directing the universe?

Yes. We believe that there is uncreated energy or a transcendent power that is mystery. And we believe, because of the Good News of Jesus, that this being is love. I myself would not refer to God as a "magical man in the sky" – but then again, my faith has grown and matured since second grade.

And we believe it's OK to fuck another guy as long as you don't tell anybody!

R163 Bully for you. What brave virtue signaling!

[quote] In the Seminary students are discouraged from "Particular Friendships."

The guiding seminary maxim that goes along with this is “raro solus, nunquam duo, semper tres” which translated from the Latin means “rarely alone, never in pairs, always in threes.”

R220 Menage a Trois !!!!!!

Three way! I love those corrupt hypocrites!

Can someone confirm that priests in the Archdiocese of New York have a $35,000 annual salary? Unlike Order priests (Franciscans. Jesuits, Benedictines etc), Diocesan priests don't take a Vow of Poverty, A priest I know owned an art gallery with a female friend.

A handsome Upper East Side priest conned a wealthy old lady parishioner into making him the beneficiary of all her asserts,. Because of the front page scandal, he's been laicized.

R204, you are being heavily trolled by atheist Юкы.

R217 Look out, the fundamentalists won't like that "uncreated energy" Buddhistic quasi-New Agey pantheistic sort of talk. They want belief in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

[quote] Can someone confirm that priests in the Archdiocese of New York have a $35,000 annual salary?

R223, this amount sounds about right. The big benefits are housing and healthcare, all of which are for life.

It’s the religious orders who make a vow of poverty, but each community interprets that vow differently.

Many people cannot enter religious life and take such a vow due to personal debt from student loans. It keeps many people out of serving all together as say a priest or nun.

[quote] Can someone confirm that priests in the Archdiocese of New York have a $35,000 annual salary?

That sounds right for major Archdioceses like New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. It would be less in other dioceses in flyover states.

Celibacy was adopted to prevent religous orders becoming a threat to emerging nation-states for political power. In the east, where this happened later, lower level priests can marry. So the pope presides over eastern Catholics who marry and western Catholics who do not. All of which means it is not God's law but an adminstrative and political convenience.

[quote] It keeps many people out of serving all together as say a priest or nun.

You are correct to say that someone needs to be free of debt before they enter a religious congregation or order—however, it would be somewhat inaccurate to say that "many" people are kept from entering religious life because of that. I think there are other things that make religious life unappealing for people these days.

Some religious communities will pay the interest on student loan debt while a person is in temporary profession and then pay the balance upon solemn profession.

Yes I am. And I can confirm that I we are not celibate. Not with all this hot Latin cock to go around!

[quote] Celibacy was adopted to prevent religous orders becoming a threat to emerging nation-states for political power. In the east, where this happened later, lower level priests can marry. So the pope presides over eastern Catholics who marry and western Catholics who do not. All of which means it is not God's law but an adminstrative and political convenience.

I think you are referring to the discipline of clerical celibacy in the Latin Rite Church, rather than religious orders or congregations. Chastity (celibacy) is essential to religious life. Celibacy, however, is not essential to secular priesthood (diocesan priesthood). While one can imagine and support the idea of a married secular priesthood, it makes no sense to speak of people in religious life being permitted to marry (sisters, nuns, brothers, monks, and priests). Living in community is what distinguishes those called to the consecrated life. They make vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Diocesan priests, on the other hand, make no vows. They promise celibacy and obedience to their bishop and his successors.

Celibacy means that someone will not marry.

Chastity is a virtue for all Christians. In other words, single people and married people are all called to chastity within their state of life. Chastity for single people means refraining from sexual intercourse. Chastity for married people means being faithful to one's spouse.

Those in religious life explicitly profess the virtues that all Christians are called to by the Gospel. That's why the three vows are referred to as the "Evangelical Counsels." All Christians are called to poverty on some level: poverty of spirit; recognizing that we are dependent on God. All Christians are called to chastity within their state of life. And all Christians are called to obedience—meaning that we are obedient to God. Those who make the vows of religious life, live out these counsels in a very specific way (not owning things; not marrying and refraining from sexual activity; and being obedient to their religious superiors and the Church.

So, yes, clerical celibacy is not God's law and could be changed with the stroke of a pen. You are right. That's why we call it "the discipline of clerical celibacy." It is nothing more than a discipline imposed by the Church. The Latin church has had nearly more years of a married clergy than not. What you did not mention regarding the Church insisting on an unmarried priesthood in the west is that is was done to protect church property from inheritance laws (a priest dies and his wife and children could inherit church property). It was also done to avoid the scandal of divorce.

We do accept (male) Episcopal priests to convert over to the Roman Catholic Church and it's a relatively easy process. They of course bring their wives and children with them. So in my diocese, we have a few parishes where the pastor is married and has children and the family lives in the rectory. If we are so willing to allow this, we should also allow our own "cradle Catholics" who want to be married and also want to be priests to do so. It only makes sense.

It is now time that we should reexamine this aspect of the Catholic faith and move in the direction of allowing secular priests to marry. As I mentioned above, however, this does not mean that priests in religious congregations/orders will ever marry. Nor will nuns, sisters, monks, or brothers—because communal living is an essential aspect of what sets those in religious life apart.

Does this make any sense?

Aren’t Italian Mafia members Catholic?

[quote] Aren’t Italian Mafia members Catholic?

Usually, yes.

Thank you, R233, it does make sense and is something I never realized or understood. Saying that nuns should be allowed to marry makes no sense. However, the Church should allow women the option to become diocesan priests—then they should be allowed to marry.

True, R236

Today the reason priests aren't allowed to marry is money. The parish would have to support the wife and kids. Protestant and Jewish congregations have no problem taking care of families, but Catholics don't want to take the financial risk.

True. The Catholic Church won’t allow priests to marry because they need to stockpile funds for the regular child rape settlements.

[quote] Today the reason priests aren't allowed to marry is money. The parish would have to support the wife and kids. Protestant and Jewish congregations have no problem taking care of families, but Catholics don't want to take the financial risk.

I completely agree. It's usually about money. As a whole, Catholics do not give as much money to their church as Protestants and Jewish congregants do. One reason for this is that Catholics historically were immigrants and did not have as much money (at least not in the United States) as Protestants and Jewish people. In order to support a priest's spouse and children, Catholics will need to step it up a bit more. It wouldn't work to pay a priest $30-35K a year, as we currently do.

[The Catholic Church won’t allow priests to marry because they need to stockpile funds for the regular child rape settlements.]

That's not the reason. Though it is true that dioceses have had to pay a lot of money (millions) on sexual abuse settlements.

^^ are you one of the team that tries to get the victims to accept initial, low ball offers?

[quote] are you one of the team that tries to get the victims to accept initial, low ball offers?

No, I am not.

But the fact is, the parish pays parish salaries—both for clergy and for lay employees. So, the money getting spent on sexual abuse settlements has nothing to do with the money that would be paid to a married priest to support his/her family. Settlement money comes from the diocese; parish salaries come from the parish.

The Middle Eastern priests are hawt.

Robes = Catholic Caftans

Can't people get sued for posting a priest's name on here and saying he's gay?

[quote] Can't people get sued for posting a priest's name on here and saying he's gay?

I can't imagine that could happen.

Darn, because I know about 40 priests and at least one bishop who are gay, but I don't want no trouble!

I was propositioned by an archbishop when younger. That makes me special.

Points up or down that he was one of those Slavic Eastern Rite ones?

A coadjutor bishop in IL is gay. Years ago he asked a mutual friend if I would be interested in going out on a date with him. GROSS!!

The brazenness of some priests is astonishing, although the Catholic church comes by its dishonesty honestly. "Do as I say, not as I do" was surely originally written in Latin.

Honestly I think most priests are good and honorable— men of faith who do a lot of good for the people they serve. Are some gay? Yes. Do some struggle with chastity? Yes. But I don’t think anecdotal evidence (I met a priest in a bar) means we can make sweeping generalizations about priests in regard to sexual orientation or their adherence to vows.

Flagrant misconduct, exploitation or abuse is a different story and should absolutely be addressed. Like teachers, priests have a duty and moral and ethical responsibility to the people they serve, especially since they are a person of authority. Any priest that doesn’t take that seriously shouldn’t be a priest.

Couple of things got me to give up organized religion in the form of Catholicism. First was covering up abuse. That shot their credibility to hell.

The second if you think it's not all about the money I suggest you dig deeper. It's funny one day I'm driving by a church and they have their big donor name board out there. I see my name as I share it with my father and grandfather. So I asked my dad. Turns out he gave $10,000 to the church. It was to grease the skids so to speak for an annulment.

And there used to be a great blog out there called Heretic Tom - he was a former Catholic priest and he posits more than half the priesthood is gay.

I went to Jesuit-run schools throughout my educational career. Many of the Jesuit priests were obviously gay. Some were flamboyant and didn't care. Others were clearly trying to not appear to be gay and they were pretty tightly wound. I have no idea whether they were celibate or not.

R253 do you have a link to Heretic Tom’s blog? I can’t find it online.

I’m glad my dear old Catholic grandmother died before the big child rape scandals came out. She would have been devastated.

The Catholic Church has always been, at its heart, about sweet, sweet forgiveness. And such tolerance!

You mean Heretic Tom the pedo apologist?

R255, it took me all of 7 seconds to find this.

Thank you. Obviously I need to get better at finding abandoned blog pages from 2010/11.

R246 Possibly but is being gay really "defamation of character" in 2021? Also, no one has outed anyone on this thread...only listed name of priests the think might be gay.

R78, R81, R82. I didn't say it was my kink - it's his. If he was into it - whatever. I've been with people that are freakier. It's not like has asked me to fist him. I draw the line at some things. I'm not anti-catholic. I actually think most religions are f-ed up, but also realize most people are sheep and do need someone to help them lead their lost lives.

^ and P.S. Priests are arrested ALL THE TIME for much weirder shit than eating a jizzy cracker! One was arrested in CT a while back for selling meth while cross dressing.

I wish we could just out all the priests and bishops who are gay. They need to know we hold them accountable for the hate and dysfunction they and their institution have caused.

Assumpta est Maria in cælum.

Assumptione Beatae Mariae Virginis

Has anyone posted yet saying they are a gay priest?

R267, yes, me. Why do you ask?

(R183) 🤣

If you cannot be considered educated or worth listening to if you can't spell 'practicing', where does that leave people making protestations on behalf of an international conglomerate with a problem with sex abuse?

R266 There goes the Virgin Mary!

I’d have been wetting my pants laughing if I were there for this:

R272 oh no, off goes her head...

R133 Jesus Christ would NOT approve of you calling another person stupid and pathetic. You spent 25 years working for the Church yet you violated the central tenant of Christianity: kindness. That reflects very poorly on your character and I'm more inclined to believe the other guy. By the way, it's been said several times that parishes vary financially. I don't know why you would attack someone because their life experience was slightly different than yours. You sound like one of those nasty fake Christians.

[quote] Jesus Christ would NOT approve of you calling another person stupid and pathetic. You spent 25 years working for the Church yet you violated the central tenant of Christianity: kindness. That reflects very poorly on your character and I'm more inclined to believe the other guy. By the way, it's been said several times that parishes vary financially. I don't know why you would attack someone because their life experience was slightly different than yours. You sound like one of those nasty fake Christians.

Hahahahha! Go ahead and believe "the other guy" — that just means that you, too, are stupid. He's a Unitarian who is reporting on something told to him by a trick. So funny.

Kindness. Well, I am very kind, but that is not to say that there are not stupid and pathetic people out here.

It's not about a slightly different life experience. Boy you really are stupid. It's about my providing facts about how things work in the Church. Why do I know how they work? Because I work for a Catholic Diocese. Why does that other guy NOT know? Because he is not even Catholic and even if he were, he still wouldn't know.

I'm afraid you are just as dumb.

R275, I’m not that poster. I was once a practicing Catholic — people like you (arrogant, self-righteous) ruin the work of the Church by not behaving as good stewards and ambassadors. You have much to learn about Jesus and his message, but it’s not too late to do that.

The poster who responded to you was right, Jesus would not approve of your attitude or behavior. Do you agree only with Catholics? Do you agree with only Christians? All people can testify, including non-Christians and/or other faiths, other denominations. Your verbal response is not Christ-like at all, if it is, please cite the verses where Jesus treated someone in a similar fashion so I can learn more too.

[quote] Do you agree only with Catholics? Do you agree with only Christians? All people can testify, including non-Christians and/or other faiths, other denominations.

You really don't get it, do you? Do I only agree with Catholics? What kind of dumb question is that. If we're talking about how the church operates with regard to finance, then yeah, I'm not going to listen to someone 'testify' (it's not testimony, by the way) who has no idea what he's talking about. I have worked in finance in a major Catholic diocese for 25 years. I think I have the authority to speak on certain matters and don't need to listen to what a Unitarian was told by some priest he tricked with.

Now tell me how this does not make sense to you.

Should I listen to what a Unitarian thinks about how the Catholic Church operates in terms of finance? If you think I should, then you are full of shit.

No r277, you should not listen on church finance from laypeople — but that isn’t my quibble with you. It’s the way you say it, how you frame it, what tone you use. You lacked respect for that person who pointed out (rightly) that Jesus would not approve of that kind of posture. And, Jesus would be even more upset that a fellow believer is treating others in such a poor manner. Jesus believed in treating all people with dignity. The only people who made him angry were religious leaders — which is what you’re representing here. You are painting yourself as the expert and all-knowing, which is the very hypocrisy Jesus abhorred in religious leaders. It’s not what you said but how you said it. Should I listen to a ‘Unitarian’….?” YES. Yes, yes. You should listen on a high-level, big-picture view to what non-Catholics have to say to you, you will learn something new.

YOU, R278, are the picture of arrogance. You are mixing apples and oranges.

Do I believe that Catholics would do well to listen to the experiences of others? Of course.

But that's not at all what we're talking about here.

Will I learn something new about operations in the organization I work for from a Unitarian? Absolutely not. Let me be clear: I have absolutely NOTHING to learn about how the Catholic Church handles finances from listening to some uneducated Unitarian who likes to talk about things he knows nothing about.

Let me put it another way. If the discussion was about the best ways a church can handle finances, then yes, I can imagine learning something. I have friends who are in my line of work but in the Episcopal Church and we get together to sometimes share and learn about best practices from one another. But that is NOT what the discussion was about. In fact, it wasn't even a discussion. It was some uninformed non-Catholic, spouting off about how Catholic dioceses send 'most' of their money to Rome. Utter bullshit. And it was about how priests get expensive cars at the expense of their parishioners. Ah, no they don't. I have nothing to learn from that guy. Or you.

I agree that the OG poster who brought up money going to Rome is ridiculous. But that’s not the post I’m talking about. It’s ok, let’s just keep on trucking. I’m not disagreeing with you on church finance, I’m just disagreeing in how you speak to people you happen to disagree with. No one says stuff like “I have nothing to learn from that guy. Or you” in real life. I cannot imagine you saying that in real life, if you do, then the people who surround you don’t actually like you. But what seems more believable is that you get extra snotty on this site because it’s anonymous and virtual. Maybe ponder that for a few weeks….like, do I act differently when I’m online? Do I type things that I wouldn’t say in-person? I just have a hard time picturing that.

[quote]R276 Your verbal response is not Christ-like at all, if it is, please cite the verses where Jesus treated someone in a similar fashion so I can learn more too.

Well, “Jesus” did rip that fig tree a new asshole in Mark 11:12-14. All because it wasn’t bearing fruit out of season.

Your alleged Prince of Peace sounds like a borderline personality, at best.

R274 Get off your high horse. The central tenant of Christianity is not kindness; where did you come across that lie? I agree, it's not nice to name call, but that doesn't give justification to your attacking the person. Suck it up, Mary.

Why, in your certainty, R279, do you choose not to contain your predisposition toward rudeness? It seems at odds with someone of such deep faith. Turning the other cheek, all that malarky. It undercuts the strength of your arguments as well. Common sense says few are convinced by arrogance or stridency or condescension. So I am just curious. It must be a choice. Why do you make it? I tangled with you earlier and then withdrew, but I am watching your replies with real interest because you are obviously reasonably intelligent and informed, but you are evidently choosing to come across as a real dick. It's the reason for the choice that interests me. If you are willing to explain yourself, I'd be interested.

Diocesan Employee = janitor at local Catholic parish.

Girls, girls, girls, girls. Stop it. You're all awful. Mkay??

Why argue with others on an anonymous website? Just ignore cunty comments and move on. Hijacking the thread with an argument is dumb af

[quote] It seems at odds with someone of such deep faith.

I am curious why you assume I am a person of "such deep faith." I have an MBA and I applied for a controller's position and got it. We actually employ non-Catholics, too—and I wouldn't ever say that they necessarily possess "such deep faith."

I may have deep faith, but you have no idea.

[quote] Diocesan Employee = janitor at local Catholic parish.

What a rude thing for you to say. I have great respect for our custodial staff.

I do not work for a parish.

I am not a custodian (or, as you say, janitor).

Your answer explains everything.

[quote] Your answer explains everything.

Good.

[quote]R287 I applied for a controller's position and got it. We actually employ non-Catholics, too

Just like the Klan employs blacks and other minorities to handle their business?

Come on - you’re a fellow traveler.

He's definitely unlikeable. Possibly Asperger's, though the hostility just suggests anti social.

[quote] He's definitely unlikeable.

Haha! I am actually very well liked. But thanks anyway!

Yes, we'll definitely take your word for, based on your evident charm here.

LMAO! Oh DE, does it sting lololol? You should know better at your age, it is delightful.

[quote] LMAO! Oh DE, does it sting lololol? You should know better at your age, it is delightful.

Does what sting? I should know better about what? What is delightful?

Do you write the assembly instructions for IKEA?

Friend is pastor at a parish in a poor neighborhood of the New York Archdiocese. They post collections in the bulletin and thank everyone for their generous donations. July 18 $621.87 .- July 25 $812.52. Do you think this really pays for the custodial and secretarial staff, electric, telephone, insurance and other bills every month? The Archdiocese doesn't chip in to make-up for low income.

Tee shirt "God Loves You, But I'm His Favorite."

r297, I don’t know about the NY archdiocese, but it’s common in other dioceses for wealthy parishes to subsidize the poorer ones through special arrangements with the diocese.

R299, not in New York. The Cardinal, Timmy Dolan, takes failings parishes, merges with nearby churches, then sells the failed buildings for big bucks.

While the pastor of Our Lady of Vilnius (a Lithuanian parish) next to the Holland Tunnel, was speaking to Dolan about saving the church, Dolan sent people to padlock the place. He said Lithuanians could go to a parish in Queens, 12 miles away. Dolan got $16 million for the property, now an apartment house.

[quote] Friend is pastor at a parish in a poor neighborhood of the New York Archdiocese. They post collections in the bulletin and thank everyone for their generous donations. July 18 $621.87 .- July 25 $812.52. Do you think this really pays for the custodial and secretarial staff, electric, telephone, insurance and other bills every month? The Archdiocese doesn't chip in to make-up for low income.

It's possible that the posted collection amounts are the amount collected in the collection baskets and do not reflect people who participate in online or automatic recurring giving. No, I don't believe that they can make payroll and pay other expenses if that's all they are taking in.

In addition to custodial and secretarial staff, they would have to pay your friend's salary, and the salaries of others on staff like the Director of Religious Ed, the Director of Music, the Organist, the Director of Finance, etc.

R301, you are right about other salaries. This congregation is mostly poor Hispanics, many illegal. The "Parish Pay" online system is unknown to them.

Not all parishes get to keep 100% of what they take in. Most parishes are "taxed" by the diocese/Archdiocese and that goes to pay for lots of other things, including helping to keep open poorer parishes. I don't think most people mind that.

[quote] Not all parishes get to keep 100% of what they take in. Most parishes are "taxed" by the diocese/Archdiocese and that goes to pay for lots of other things, including helping to keep open poorer parishes. I don't think most people mind that.

Yes, I said that earlier.

Are we STILL talking about this? I thought the rather tetchy "Diocesan Employee" had moved on to greener pastures.

I'm not the one who brought it up.

Ya know what, Diocesan Employee?

[italic] Go ta hell!

^ that's amiable? Wow, the church certainly has changed.

DE, you really need to stop replying to every post. It's not your duty, it's obsessive and unnecessary.

[quote] that's amiable? Wow, the church certainly has changed.

He has nothing to do with the Church.

[quote] DE, you really need to stop replying to every post. It's not your duty, it's obsessive and unnecessary.

Oh, okay. I hadn't realized that. Are you certain it's not my duty? I would hate to be obsessive. And I am loathe to do what's unnecessary.

I firmly resolve, with the help of thy grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life.

Amen.

^ Gee, do ya think? That one is a low boil nutcase.

[quote] That one is a low boil nutcase.

Thank you.

If people start naming names, are we protected? Can the Church or the priests find out who we are and sue us?

Nah, they can't even work the internet. Name away

While we're on the subject, why did that sitcom with Joel Higgins as a priest fail? When his costars were on [italic]St. Elsewhere[/italic] and [italic]Barney Miller[/italic], it must have been pretty bad if he pretty much gave up on TV altogether after it.

Monty Clift played a gay priest in I Confess (1952).

[quote] The brazenness of some priests is astonishing

I've known two different priests where "brazen" was a fitting description. Brazen hussies!

And both were just.....I'm sorry, I am not Adonis but both were bald, fat and as nellie as the day is long. I'm sure there's an audience for them but it wasn't ANY of the guys they were trying to hit on, HARD. (And one was in a Newman Center, and who knows if he tried to aim that shit at college guys.)

Diocesan employee, do you have sex with your partner? If you do, do you make it part of your sacramental confession and sincerely resolve not to do it again?

If you do have sex with your partner and die suddenly in a state of mortal sin, you will go to Hell for eternity.

This is what your church teaches.

R319, get a grip. Let it go. Move on. You're a major harasser and shit-stirrer.

[quote]R320 get a grip. Let it go. Move on. You're a major harasser and shit-stirrer.—You're beyond hope...no prayers for you!

These are perfectly legitimate question to ask those collaborators that grease the wheels of the evil, ring-kissing papists’ church.

R320 You're ignorant of the actual teachings of the Catholic religion.

Stand up!

Sit down!

Kneel down!

Abuse children!

R323, you forgot Thorn Birds!

[quote] Diocesan employee, do you have sex with your partner? If you do, do you make it part of your sacramental confession and sincerely resolve not to do it again? If you do have sex with your partner and die suddenly in a state of mortal sin, you will go to Hell for eternity. This is what your church teaches.

You are an offensive cunt. But I'll respond to your ridiculous questions:

Yes, I have sex with my partner. We have sex on average five times per week.

I do not confess it. One confesses sins with the intention of avoiding said sins in the future.

The Church teaches that one is bound to follow one's conscience, which is the arbiter of what is sinful.

Thanks for telling me what my "church teaches" even if you're full of shit about it.

As R320 said, you're a major harasser and shit-stirrer. So why don't you just shut the fuck up and stop talking shit about things you know nothing about.

R325 You are in denial.

Your church teaches that homosexual sex is a grave evil. i.e., objectively a mortal sin, which deprives the soul of sanctifying grace, which is necessary for entrance to heaven.

Those who die in mortal sin "go immediately to Hell". Check the Catechism.

No well-formed "conscience" can believe otherwise. At the very least, you are putting your soul at grave risk.

But you just go on believing that you're a good little Catholic boy.

R325 is ugly little creature.

Though he embodies the hypocrisy of the one true church beautifully.

Incidentally, I no longer believe in this Catholic shit.

[quote] ncidentally, I no longer believe in this Catholic shit.

Well bully for you!

[quote] Well bully for you!

You're an idiot.

[Quote]Are you a Gay Catholic Priest?

Only on Halloween.

^^ all the hallucinating Believers are.

[quote] You're an idiot.

And you offend religious freedom. Maybe you'd like to live in Afghanistan?

R334 And it's clear from your response that you have no idea what you're talking about. These are emphatically not MY own personal beliefs (I am no longer Catholic, and haven't been for quite some time). What I've described is the ordinary teaching of the RC Church.

Catholic leaders are EVIL CUNTS FROM HELL

This sounds like religious persecution and hatred. Seriously.

What does? The Catholic Church’s policies?

[quote] What does? The Catholic Church’s policies?

No.

Working for the corrupt Catholic Church is akin to choosing to work for the mob.

Blood money.

Aw, what the hell, I worship the Catholic church!

[quote] Working for the corrupt Catholic Church is akin to choosing to work for the mob.

Oh really? So all the people who work with the sick and the poor are working for the mob? Remember that if you're ever taken to a Catholic hospital when you need one in an emergency. You can tell the nurses and doctors that they are working for the mob. Idiot.

Some of you are so small minded.

True or false, r342: the mob is made up of Catholics.

[quote] True or false, [R342]: the mob is made up of Catholics.

What an incredibly stupid statement.

I have no experience of the mob. But, even if it is, it does not follow that working for the Catholic Church "is akin for choosing to work for the mob." That's not a valid statement.

The mob is made up of Italians, too. Does that mean that when one works for an Italian one is working for the mob? Dumb.

[bold] How about this: [/bold]

Working for a Muslim is akin to working for Al-Qaeda. Why? Because, true or false, Al-Qaeda is made up of Muslims?

This is the argument of someone who doesn't know how to think critically.

Important point, R344.

Vital addition, R339.

Hey, Diocesan Employee + Boston Pete:

What’s the difference between a Catholic priest and acne?

Acne doesn’t come on your face until you’re 14.

Diocesan Employee is definitely a pedofile

R348 That's really not fair.

I guess we could say he chooses to work for pedophiles?

I was hoping for a lot of first hand account hot stories about young priests and silver daddy priests and all variety of sexy priests. This thread went off the tracks off course downhill and off a cliff fast .

Obviously, the Diocesan Employee was jut offering valuable insights to how the church works, why are you attacking his belief system? The OP asked about RC priest, not some accountants working for them. So what if he works for the RCC? It is better a gay man than some frau, poetic justice in a way

Diocesan Employee committed the terrible error of opening up about his faith to a terrible bunch of DLrs. Many people here are rancid in their everyday everything, but when it comes to religion, they can truly become impish. Seeing people throwing around the world paedophile, in a place where someone like Thimotée Chalement, that horrid rat, or any other “twink” can gets dozens of threads only because he looks “barely legal” is immensely ironic. The Church does not err, it's private individuals who err. They are human like everybody else, they commit errors like everybody in their day to day, and since they are in a position of power and authority, they likewise can abuse it. This does not represent the Church, but that particular individual. It was people like Goebbels who began this campaign of calumniation and slander against the Church, reducing all her labour to the private errors of individuals, when particularly in times like these of a pandemic, her charity work is enormously necessary. To any Catholics (or Christians in general) reading this, do not let these misers bemoan you because you still have a spiritual life, your life is between you and your confessor, and for nobody else (but competent authorities) to judge. Do not waste your time in meaningless efforts in dialoguing with them, you are not a theologian, and even if you were, most people at DL are so illiterate that they think that the Latin word Domine has something to do with BDSM.

No, R353 some dizzy queen was giving out false narratives the church money system just from 1 case. The Diocesan Employee corrected it, that is all

[quote] The Church does not err, it's private individuals who err.

RME

[quote]R355 The Church does not err, it's private individuals who err.

They why is it the church gets sued for all the rapes, and has to pay?

I just don’t understand how all the pedophilia is connected to a priest’s vow or promise of celibacy. Honestly I put myself in that position and do not understand how kids would somehow become a legit default due to a lack of a normal sexual outlet unless you already had those inclinations. The same would be true if I were in a situation where women were the only option. The default would be masturbation. The Church is still dealing with decades of protecting priests and it will take generations until all of that is weeded out and laws are changed so that abusers are handed over to the authorities immediately and removed permanently.

It all begins way back when people would trust priest with their children, because of you know, religion. Then, the abused kids get messed-up sex desire and become priests to fulfill their desire. The cycle continues.

I think it’s that it’s also a result of repressing healthy sexual expression as well. Honestly I don’t understand it and find it hard to believe any true Christian would harm a child, especially an ordained minister or priest. Most priests are good and devout men of God, so I think most of these pedos are men who used the vocation to hide their inclination, or are predators who sought out the role specifically for their access to children. Either way anyone who uses their authority to exploit or abuse the vulnerable deserve the most severe criminal punishment.

This priest raped a retarded child and then stabbed his mother 68 times to prevent her from reporting it

[quote]I just don’t understand how all the pedophilia is connected to a priest’s vow or promise of celibacy.

Celibacy doesn’t create pedophiles. If that were the case, then all men who aren’t getting laid regularly would find themselves starting to go after children, which just isn’t the case.

The Church used to let men into religious formation with very little inquiry into the candidates’ psychosexual state. Sexual deviants who entered the priesthood found they were able to hide their perversions and have easy access to children.

R348, you’re ridiculous, and I can’t stand DE. No, DE is just completely arrogant combined with zero EQ — typical Catholic actually.

I admire priests who are liberal but are trying to change from within. Time will tell if that can actually work. Sometimes empires are indeed changed by sleeper cells inside. I’m grateful for this thread, this is why I come to DL.

There is no way to change the Church "from within." We all know what the Church teaches about homosexuality, and marriage, and abortion, etc., and there is no way those teachings are going to change.

Celibacy doesn’t create pedophiles. If that were the case, then all men who aren’t getting laid regularly would find themselves starting to go after children, which just isn’t the case.

I agree with this. I think the culture that put priests on a pedestal and beyond reproach in parishes allowed these pedo vermin to abuse their position of authority. The impunity of the Church cover ups is unforgivable.

[quote] I just don’t understand how all the pedophilia is connected to a priest’s vow or promise of celibacy. Honestly I put myself in that position and do not understand how kids would somehow become a legit default due to a lack of a normal sexual outlet unless you already had those inclinations. The same would be true if I were in a situation where women were the only option. The default would be masturbation. The Church is still dealing with decades of protecting priests and it will take generations until all of that is weeded out and laws are changed so that abusers are handed over to the authorities immediately and removed permanently.

Celibacy does not create pedophilia.

However, the Church's requirement that it's ordained and vowed members remain unmarried, creates an environment that is sometimes attractive to individuals who are sexually immature or who are repressing something about their sexuality. In other words, if you are a Catholic man who is ashamed of being gay or who can't face his sexuality in a mature way, entering the seminary or a religious congregation might seem an effective way for dealing with it by NOT dealing with it.

Similarly, if you are a person who finds yourself attracted to children or adolescents and are very troubled, ashamed, and anxious about that, you might feel as though a life of celibacy will make it go away. I watched a safely video that diocesan employees and volunteers are required to watch and there was a priest who was a pedophile, being interviewed from prison. It was very sad, what he said, "I knew that I was attracted to children and thought that by becoming a priest, those impulses and desires would go away. The morning after my ordination, I looked at myself in the mirror and realized I was the same person I was the day before I was ordained."

The celibacy requirement sometimes attracts the wrong people.

I want to correct myself before someone else does:

"However, the Church's requirement that [bold] its [/bold] ordained..."

I mistakenly turned 'its' into a contraction. Oh dear.

[quote] Diocesan Employee is definitely a pedofile

And you, who can't even spell "pedophile" are definitely a fucking idiot.

I take great offense at this comment, despite knowing that it comes from someone with very little intelligence.

Because I corrected some ridiculously bad information that was posted by someone who knows nothing about the workings of the Catholic Church —and because I work for a Catholic diocese, you call me a pedophile? Good job. It's offensive not just to me but to anyone who has every dealt with the evil of child sexual abuse. You just casually throw the word around like it's nothing. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Thank you, Diocesan Employee, for being a sane and intelligent voice here.

Diocesan Employee is a fat bald cunt

It is a remarkable thing to make yourself as unlikeable as he has, just through posts.

[quote] It is a remarkable thing to make yourself as unlikeable as he has, just through posts.

That's cause you don't think.

[quote] It is a remarkable thing to make yourself as unlikeable as he has, just through posts.

And—I suppose you think it's okay to call someone a pedophile. It's just another word, after all. And it's the perfect word to throw around in a casual way. What an asshole you are.

Diocesan Employee is a fat bald pedo cunt

[quote] Diocesan Employee is a fat bald pedo cunt

And you are intellectually and emotionally stunted.

Truth is: I am not fat. I am not bald. And I won't dignify the rest.

You should be banned from DL. I'll look into it. Anyone else agree?

R353 What utter bullshit. Was it just private "erring" individuals who covered for the pedophiles and moved them to new communities to victimize? Was it private erring individuals who have kept the celibacy rule intact, 500 years after the Protestants had the sense to abandon it, recognizing how profoundly it warps human nature? It's insane that you think the Church as an institution has nothing to answer for.

R353 is the kind of Catholic who will kill that church, not save it. She can't even acknowledge the facts in plain language so the poison festers. Which is best for the rest of us who have brains.

[quote] Was it private erring individuals who have kept the celibacy rule intact, 500 years after the Protestants had the sense to abandon it, recognizing how profoundly it warps human nature?

The Southern Baptists are going through a child sex abuse crisis of their own right now.

R375 Yes, all that's private individuals erring, and abusing their status and office, the Church tries it's best to put an end to abuse and bring criminals to justice. Also, what's this fixation with priests? Teachers are the profession that rapes the most children, and I see nobody trying to victimize teachers in general because they do "nothing", most schools have the same reaction that these certain individuals who err and try to cover the crime to minimize damage. These are private errors, but they do not represent the whole Church institution. The Church as a whole does her best to impede these perverse individuals from abusing children, but there's limitations to her activity in her search for such criminals, if the Church were to systematically abuse the right to privacy of her priests, what would that come up to? It would be a disaster, and even then I doubt many pedos would be uncovered.

R376 "They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us."-1 John 2:19.

They can't leave fast enough. And it's not my fault you can only understand Simple English. Perhaps had you went to a Catholic school and applied yourself to your studies, or recommenced them now, you wouldn't have such problems.

Oh, sit and spin, you sad apologist.

What a meany, but still, it's private individuals who err. Here's in condensed and in Simple English, so you can understand.

R380 "It's private individuals who err." What an incredibly convenient get-out-of-jail-free card. And it's so concise, you can just bleat it out like an old sheep whenever you're challenged. But your point about more teachers being guilty of child molestation--do you ever cite evidence or attempt to back up your points, or do you just bleat? Give us some figures. And remember: there are far more teachers in the country than priests (thank goodness!), so you're going to need to put your numbers in context.

Is that you, Diocesan Employee, using a word like 'err' to describe raping a child? That's pretty much solid proof you're a pedo

[quote] Is that you, Diocesan Employee, using a word like 'err' to describe raping a child? That's pretty much solid proof you're a pedo

No, asshole. I sign my posts. Don't be such a moron and read my postings to see how I feel about the casual use of the word 'pedophile' and talking about the sexual abuse of children. You really must be an idiot.

Lastly, I don't write sentences like these pieces of shit:

"What a meany, but still, it's private individuals who err. Here's in condensed and in Simple English, so you can understand."

“Are you a gay Catholic priest?”

Yes.

This thread is getting ridiculous. If you think prayer is a waste of time, trying to win arguments with anon trolls on an anonymous discussion board is about the same.

There is no link between pedophilia and celibacy. Most sexual abuse of children occurs within families. The percentager of pedophiles within the Catholic priesthood is no greater than it is within the general population. The scandal is that the Catholic Church covered it up for decades. The scandal also continues to reside in bishops nd others who conflate homosexuality and pedophilia.

The Catholic Church's official dogma on homosexuality is patently cruel. A priest will bless cars, homes, objects, and animals, but will not bless a union between two men or two women? The Catholic Church's position on the role of women within is patently cruel. It will not ordain women as priests. . The Church will continue its decline. As a Catholic who regularly goes to Mass, I grieve that. But the Church brought it on herself.

With respect, BPC, why do you do it? Or rather, how do you rationalize it? I am not trying to rag you, but how do you still settle on going to mass which implies you're ok with the big picture. You plainly aren't. This is genuine curiosity not disapproval. Just want to understand the basis for your actions.

R387, because I believe. it's about my relationship with the Eucharist -- with God. I remember this passage from the first letter of John: "God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him."

Change is coming -- slowly. Too many priests and even bishops are changing. Will I see it in my time? Probably not.

It's a struggle...faith should be a struggle.

There's always been a gulf between the official church and the people on the ground.

How's that for a short answer?

I appreciate your sharing your thinking.

As a Catholic Priest, life can be difficult and stressful. The only way I can really relax is by taking abortion rights away from millions of women.

^LOL

You're joking but the current US Supreme Court is largely Catholic and look how it ruled on abortions in Texas.

This thread slanders priests without providing any kind of proof, stating that they commit more child abuse than those in other occupations, in a mocking manner that already let's everyone see how much you care about the children and the Church, and I will not waste my time collecting statistics to prove anything to anyone, since you actually care neither about children nor about the Church, but rather you prefer to engage in Nazi patented techniques of defamation. And yes, it's private individuals who err, the Church has no interest in these acts being committed, since it's detrimental to her mission, and when private individuals err trying to cover these acts it's likewise not a collective action, the Church has given no blessing to anything like that, but within the limits of any institution that spans the whole globe they try to counteract such conducts. Anyway, you don't oppose the Church because of that, your opposition comes from simple prejudices, because you capitalize her "homophobia" (bad Greek and meaningless word), you demean and criminalize an institution that's a lot for many all around the globe, an institution that feeds, clothes and houses the poor, like barely any other does, and that brings to the rest the life that faith, sacraments, pastoral care, etc., gives.

Like it or not, but morality as defined by tradition, councils and dogmatic definitions by the Holy Father is unreformable and unchangeable; for if it was, the Church would teach the opinions of men as law, when what she does is upholding the Law despite the opinions of men. Faith is not struggle, the struggle comes from the kind of opinions that " does not come from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic" , and that sets the laity against those endowed with pastoral care over them, read the catechism, a codex of canon law, or go to maritain.nd.edu (Aristotle et al.) where they have many resources about Catholicism and Scholastic and Neo-Scholastic Theology and you shall understand.

^LOL, you have really spun out of control. You call "demonic" those who point out the depredations of your demonic child-abusing priests. You should be ashamed to utter Maritain's name.

Oh yes? You think this does not happen anymore? What about Cardinal Pell, who was condemned despite the accusation making nonsensical affirmations that everyone chose to ignore. Yes, that's demonic. When people out of pure hatred do things like this, with the aim of ruining the lives of innocent people and slander the Church, that's the definition of demonic. And Maritain defended the Church against people like you, you should be ashamed to think he wouldn't stand with the Church, as he did in this life.

^Who do you think is impressed by your medieval hocus pocus? I've read some Maritain. He was a wonderful man. He wouldn't have hung out on gay message boards and called others demonic. I think you need a shrink more than a priest.

If you call Scholasticism or Neo-Scholasticism "medieval hocus pocus" what more is to be said? Maritain dedicated his life, alongside people like Étienne Gilson, precisely to preserve Scholasticism, so that demonstrates how much you have read Maritain. He was a wonderful man, who stood by the Church, and rendered her incommensurable services, precisely the contrary of those who slander her so gratuitously. And Maritain had more than one gay friend, so who knows if we would have hung around gay forums. And I call demonic certain opinions and actions, and they really are, they are the textbook definition of demonic, when for example when someone falsely accuses a Cardinal and mounts a sensational campaign of defamation whose roots are putrid hatred, but perhaps you think that's normal. And shrieking is something pearl-clutching queens like you seem to do, rather than priests or me.

Also at maritain.nd.edu there's more than just Maritain's writings, had you actually entered, you would have seen it includes those of many others, such as those of the famed theologians of Stonyhurst.

Was I supposed to have entered maritain.nd.edu? Just on your say-so? I have read just a bit of Maritain, his letters--some of them--and Art and Scholasticism. I'm a great fan of Flannery O'Connor, and she was a great student of his. I would be amused to see what she would make of you, tossing around "demonic" this and that. As she well understood, when you scratch a Catholic you very often find a nut.

George Pell was clearly guilty.

Since you consider that to mention maritain.nd.edu is to "utter Maritain's name", but it contains more than just his works, if you were so familiar with him, then you would know with this web-page dedicated to him and to the spread of Scholasticism. And don't you worry I'm familiar with Flannery O'Connor, in fact I have mentioned her here, and I think she would rather see in you a character fit for one of her novels, since you consider that slandering the Church and falsely accusing others due to your own putrid prejudices and pure hatred, is not demonic, but rather quite normal, what a fine character you would make!

R401 You're not even grammatical, let alone rational. I'm sure you're quite familiar with Flannery, and that you misunderstand her thoroughly, but I'm going to wash my hands of you, before your obnoxious views permanently forestall any nearer approach to the Church I might make in future.

R400 The accusation said they were abused in a busy cathedral during daytime, when Pell was at the western door of the cathedral, and the accusers were in the sacristy, the abuse was physically impossible. And so with the rest of dismissed accusations, that people can continue to accuse an acquitted person, reveals the putrid hatred.

R402 It's good that besides engaging in Nazi techniques of slander you also engage in Grammar Nazi techniques of pettiness. And if some superficial argument on DL can forestall such an important (and necessary) decision, what does that say of your rationality? And of course, what would we do us readers do without you, and your perfect comprehension of Flannery O'Connor's œuvre, and your dogmatic statements about how properly interpret her writings, guess since I'm not a rational being I couldn't do any kind of exegesis anyways, so nothing to correct, and no need to wash your hands off me.

R403 I mean this sincerely. Please forgive any offense I've given you.

R404 No offence was taken, so no need to be sorry for anything. This is the DL, and I'm more than conscious that it's not trendy to defend religion, even less Catholicism, here. And that every grammatical or orthographical error will be responded with an "oh dear" or some other kind of banter. If I linked to maritain.nd.edu was in case someone was searching for resources easily accessible online, most of these works have long been discontinued and forgotten, despite being quite helpful, and not to particularly make this about Maritain (who's works are great). And if someone needs to apologise for something that's perhaps me, for using coarse language or expressions that weren't clear enough, if I called something (not someone) demonic, that was the slander that abounds in many places about the Church and priests, which is gratuitous and comes only from prejudice. Anyway, thanks for your consideration.

^Bravo, well said.

Religion makes people sick, bitches. Find, learn the Commandments and that's enough. Fuck the rest.

Thank you to the Diocese Employer gay for all his information. That was great.

DL is very american, that possibly explains why is so adamant about the Church.