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Whitney destroys Janet, Paula Abdul in 1990 clip

Cissy Houston's advice: Don't sell out, it will all be alright in the end.

Was she right?

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by Anonymousreply 362July 1, 2021 11:49 PM

I'm not going to watch it but Whitney had a voice. The other two don't and never did.

by Anonymousreply 1June 20, 2021 10:00 PM

Meanwhile, who was found facedown in a tub of water because she fucking threw it all away for Bobby Brown and crack?

by Anonymousreply 2June 20, 2021 10:07 PM

She couldn't handle fame. She's not the first and won't be the last.

by Anonymousreply 3June 20, 2021 10:14 PM

There are many people who would debate your version of history, R2.

by Anonymousreply 4June 20, 2021 10:15 PM

Gurl Bobby was fucking Janet at that time hence all the extra SHADE

Im not going to pick sides, they totally moved on. Janet and Whitney both did their thing and elevated the culture, and made big mistakes. Im sure Janet would love to see Whitney again

by Anonymousreply 5June 20, 2021 10:19 PM

It's chilling to see Whitney, nearly 30 years old, crawl into Cissy's lap over the Janet/Paula videos.

by Anonymousreply 6June 20, 2021 10:25 PM

The only thing she destroyed was herself.

by Anonymousreply 7June 20, 2021 10:28 PM

My comment, R4, is more so aimed at Cissy, who used Whitney.

by Anonymousreply 8June 20, 2021 10:30 PM

SLAY, Hunty!

by Anonymousreply 9June 20, 2021 10:35 PM

Janet matters in a way Whitney never did and never will.

by Anonymousreply 10June 20, 2021 11:05 PM

Cissy better hope Katherine Jackson doesn't run into her in the old folks home, Katherine would run over her in a wheelchair for calling her daughter a bitch 30 years ago!

by Anonymousreply 11June 20, 2021 11:23 PM

[quote] Janet matters in a way Whitney never did and never will.

Right, that's why Whitney is remembered more than Janet

by Anonymousreply 12June 20, 2021 11:26 PM

"Paula Abdul? That bitch is singing off-key ON THE RECORD!".

by Anonymousreply 13June 20, 2021 11:26 PM

Whitney was 100 percent right about Paula.

by Anonymousreply 14June 20, 2021 11:28 PM

Whitney doesn’t actually say anything bad about Janet here, it’s her cunt of a mother who was jealous of any successful singer, especially her own daughter.

by Anonymousreply 15June 20, 2021 11:30 PM

The I'm Your Baby Tonight era was so interesting in hindsight. Whitney had just come off being booed at the Soul Train awards and wanted to do a hardcore R and B album to convince the urban audience that she hadn't sold out. But then she did the video for the title track, which had numerous lesbian undertones. This era also seems to be her most carefree. You can tell she's relaxed and in a good place in the interviews and backstage footage. And Robin is around during so much of it. But then she got married and it all seemed to go to shit.

I find this video sad, because it's ultimately two women deep in denial. So much of Whitney was defined by what others thought of her, and Cissy is a huge hypocrite and phony talking about being yourself.

by Anonymousreply 16June 20, 2021 11:35 PM

The music video for I'm Your Baby Tonight is so flamingly gay, I"m amazed I didn't pick up on it when I was younger. It was like Whitney was screaming to the world "I'M GAY!"

by Anonymousreply 17June 20, 2021 11:37 PM

We got the LAST LAUGH....And we didn't drown in a tub...

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by Anonymousreply 18June 20, 2021 11:40 PM

Janet SLAYS!

Paula DECAYS!

by Anonymousreply 19June 20, 2021 11:42 PM

[quote] Cissy is a huge hypocrite and phony talking about being yourself.

Cissy was every bit as harmful to Whitney as Joe Jackson was to his children.

by Anonymousreply 20June 20, 2021 11:43 PM

R16: Totally. If Cissy had actually let Whitney be herself and hadn’t beaten her over the head with religious anti-gay shit her whole life she’d maybe still be here. Robyn’s book is a great but sad insight into what Cissy was like as a mother. And Robyn’s clearly tried not to be too hard on her. So you can imagine how bad Cissy and the rest of Whitney’s money grabbing, jealous, selfish family actually were.

by Anonymousreply 21June 20, 2021 11:44 PM

WHY CAN'T I BE ME?????????

by Anonymousreply 22June 20, 2021 11:45 PM

Isn't that the old story of people who promote themselves in a flashy way always get more attention than the people we REALLY should listen to. And this goes for every aspect of public life that involves entertainment and news. If we want to get rid of this phenomena we should teach our kids in school very early on how to detect the charlatans, the populists, the phonies.

It's

Hillary vs Bernie

Lauren Underwood vs AOC

dozens of examples like this

by Anonymousreply 23June 20, 2021 11:46 PM

[quote] We got the LAST LAUGH....And we didn't drown in a tub..

Your video is disgusting, R18. Blocked.

by Anonymousreply 24June 20, 2021 11:53 PM

She didn't play the game and went broke.

Then she died.

by Anonymousreply 25June 20, 2021 11:54 PM

The foul stench of Janbot is already all over this thread.

He must receive text alerts within seconds at any mention of his queen.

by Anonymousreply 26June 21, 2021 12:08 AM

At the end, sadly. Whitney sounded just like Paula. She couldn’t sing. Both the docs about her are heartbreaking. Because you see her destroy what she had.

by Anonymousreply 27June 21, 2021 12:24 AM

Whitney at her most cracked-out was a better singer than Paula at her best (i.e. her twenties).

by Anonymousreply 28June 21, 2021 12:26 AM

Whitney, indisputably one of the premier female vocalists of all time, shamefully died not having an extensive or compelling catalog. Sure, she has a few incredible singles that became classics, but doesn't have a classic, culturally significant album like Control or Rhythm Nation. Whitney's albums were formulaic, over produced, and sound dated today, made exclusively to move as many units & singles to ad many people as possible. Her first album being her best, it's her only album that plays as a complete project instead of sounding like a hodge-podge mess of producers & unnecessarily large vocals. I also don't doubt that Whitney wouldn't have gladly taken a few of Paula's biggest hits--funky, feel-good, & still every-fucking-where.

How ironic that while good Christian Cissy was making those comments about Janet & Paula her own daughter was already addicted to drugs. I guess she wasn't as in tune with Whitney's virtue as she as liked to believe she was. Since Whitney's death Cissy has unwittingly demonstrated herself as being one of Whitney's biggest obstacles in to achieving mental contentment & personal well-being.

by Anonymousreply 29June 21, 2021 12:27 AM

[quote] Sure, she has a few incredible singles that became classics, but doesn't have a classic, culturally significant album like Control or Rhythm Nation.

The same accusation can be thrown at Mariah and Celine. All had classic singles but neither had a truly classic album. But their songs are arguably more rememebered than any of Janet's songs.

[quote] Her first album being her best, it's her only album that plays as a complete project instead of sounding like a hodge-podge mess of producers & unnecessarily large vocals.

My Love is Your Love is even better and more consistent than her debut.

[quote] I also don't doubt that Whitney wouldn't have gladly taken a few of Paula's biggest hits--funky, feel-good, & still every-fucking-where.

I really don't think Whitney would have wanted anything Paula touched.

by Anonymousreply 30June 21, 2021 12:32 AM

[quote]Whitney's albums were formulaic, over produced, and sound dated today, made exclusively to move as many units & singles to ad many people as possible.

I think Whitney felt the same way. Much of her discontent in this video was probably envy that they were making music they actually enjoyed themselves, even if they couldn't sing.

Of course Whitney didn't get around to making music she liked until much later, and by that time her heyday was over and her personal life was in shambles.

by Anonymousreply 31June 21, 2021 12:53 AM

Janet slays!

by Anonymousreply 32June 21, 2021 12:58 AM

These comments about Whitney and her dissapointment with her material remind me how lucky Madonna was to be given so much control early on in her career. It seems that everyone who works with Clive Davis ends up feeling controlled or bullied. By comparison, Seymour Stein seemed to give way more autonomy to his artists.

by Anonymousreply 33June 21, 2021 12:59 AM

R29 Yep. She’s a piece of shit and a bitch. She flat out said on Oprah she would not have approved of Whitney being gay.

by Anonymousreply 34June 21, 2021 1:12 AM

Whitney's performances will always stand the test of times.

Now, in 10 years, in 50 years, in 100 years.

Janet and Paula Abdul are pop stars with fleeting influences on our cultural heritage.

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by Anonymousreply 35June 21, 2021 1:35 AM

Cissy saying: "And god laid his hands on this one" (or whatever) is EXACTLY why Whitney went off the rails. That's a lot of fucking pressure to be chosen by god. Especially when you're a lez who loves drugs. I hate Cissy.

by Anonymousreply 36June 21, 2021 1:39 AM

[quote]Whitney's performances will always stand the test of times.

These people who saw her last tour disagree.

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by Anonymousreply 37June 21, 2021 1:41 AM

r35 I dont think anyone is debating whether Whitney's performances (when she could actually still sing) will stand the test of time. Whitney and Janet have already influenced generations of artists now. The fact this video we are watching is 30 years old and we are still discussing their careers is a testament to that. So to call one or the other fleeting is just incorrect.

by Anonymousreply 38June 21, 2021 1:41 AM

Where is your Janet performance that will stand the test of times R38?

by Anonymousreply 39June 21, 2021 1:58 AM

Stands the test of time?

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by Anonymousreply 40June 21, 2021 2:00 AM

Janet couldn't even sing when she was at he top of her career. I don't know how to even call this, it's definitely not singing.

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by Anonymousreply 41June 21, 2021 2:02 AM

Paula, Janet and Madonna can't sing. Whitney could. End of story. Whitney had duets with real singers like Mariah Carey and George Michael. Though Bobby is an exception because he was her husband.

by Anonymousreply 42June 21, 2021 2:07 AM

R24 = The video was from ABC NEWS......Don't blame ME because SHE doped up....Blame her dealer.....As for you blocking me----I could care less....LoL

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by Anonymousreply 43June 21, 2021 2:09 AM

Madonna dissed Whitney and was angry that Whitney had a bigger career than her in the 90s. She felt Whitney was too squeaky clean and wholesome and thus palatable to the masses. I think this was after the Sex book controversy. As usual, Madge blames everyone else but herself.

by Anonymousreply 44June 21, 2021 2:26 AM

She had talent. Oh yes, she had it by the truckload. But the difference between us is I never needed crack or a “Bobby Brown”. I know they dried her out from time to time, but it never stuck. Nippy never learned how to roll with the punches. And in the recording industry, they come left, right, and below the belt.

Don’t misquote me on this — she had talent. REAL talent. And I always told her that. I told her that nothing could destroy her talent, but that she could destroy herself. And you don’t need to call me Nostradamus, kiddos. But let the record show: I’m STILL here, and she’s worm food in a goddam pine box.

by Anonymousreply 45June 21, 2021 2:28 AM

[quote] Janet couldn't even sing when she was at he top of her career. I don't know how to even call this, it's definitely not singing.

That clip just shows us Janet's intricate choreography and dance steps. It's physically impossible to perform all those moves while singing like Whitney.

Madonna chose to lip sync. Whitney couldn't dance. Janet was able to sing AND dance.

by Anonymousreply 46June 21, 2021 2:34 AM

I love Janet's music and she's a great performer but she just isn't a good singer. Neither is Madonna, Paula, Kylie, Jennifer Lopez, Britney, Rihanna, Cher, et cetera. That's why they're called performers. They are energetic and put on show with choreography and hype the crowd up. Whitney, Barbra, Mariah, Aretha, Ariana, Christina, Fantasia, Adele and Pink are singers.

by Anonymousreply 47June 21, 2021 2:38 AM

[quote]Her and Cissy

Oh dear!

by Anonymousreply 48June 21, 2021 2:42 AM

Shit bath dead.

by Anonymousreply 49June 21, 2021 2:44 AM

Cissy was so jealous of her own child. What a cunt of a mother.

by Anonymousreply 50June 21, 2021 2:46 AM

[quote] Madonna chose to lip sync.

Umm, Janet and (especially) Britney lip sync far more than MAdonna does.

by Anonymousreply 51June 21, 2021 2:53 AM

[quote] That clip just shows us Janet's intricate choreography and dance steps. It's physically impossible to perform all those moves while singing like Whitney.

Are you fucking high? Janet is just standing there on stage like a lox while everyone else moves around her, and she still sounds winded and off-key.

by Anonymousreply 52June 21, 2021 2:53 AM

[quote] I love Janet's music and she's a great performer but she just isn't a good singer. Neither is Madonna, Paula, Kylie, Jennifer Lopez, Britney, Rihanna, Cher, et cetera.

I think Madonna should be somewhere in between these two camps--she/'s not a powerhouse but she also can do much better than the one octave Paula and J Lo can do.

by Anonymousreply 53June 21, 2021 2:54 AM

[quote] Madonna dissed Whitney and was angry that Whitney had a bigger career than her in the 90s. She felt Whitney was too squeaky clean and wholesome and thus palatable to the masses. I think this was after the Sex book controversy. As usual, Madge blames everyone else but herself.

Yes, that's what the letter she wrote was about. She and Whitney liked each other but you can tell Madonna was really feeling bitter after the whole Sex book debacle and the fact that it knocked her down a peg or two.

by Anonymousreply 54June 21, 2021 2:56 AM

I love how people claim so and so “can’t sing” just because they don’t scream at the top of their lungs in their songs. I also laugh because the people you claim “can’t sing” have still sold millions of records, so there are obviously millions of people who disagree.

by Anonymousreply 55June 21, 2021 2:57 AM

Forget about Miss Warwick, Whitney was the real psychic in that family. Totally foresaw the total shit that music is today.

by Anonymousreply 56June 21, 2021 3:03 AM

I wish Whitney divorced Bobby in the 90s and got herself sober at the time. She could have been successful in the 2000s doing more R&B and neo-soul like My Love is Your Love.

by Anonymousreply 57June 21, 2021 3:10 AM

No R55, that just means you have low brow taste.

by Anonymousreply 58June 21, 2021 3:56 AM

Bobby Brown didn't keep Whitney from "getting sober."

She enjoyed herself and made her own decisions.

by Anonymousreply 59June 21, 2021 11:50 AM

[quote]She and Whitney liked each other

Tolerated is more like it. Madonna was extremely jealous of Whitney's success. Mariah's also, but Mariah had one of the best comebacks ever after Madonna insulted her. So she didn't mess with Mariah publicly.

Whitney didn't bother because she knew Madonna wasn't much of a threat, talent or promotion wise. With Paula and Janet, they were big with black audiences, and that's where Whitney wanted to be.

by Anonymousreply 60June 21, 2021 9:32 PM

Whitney didn't need black audiences. She had mainstream.

And black audiences did nothing for Janet or Paula. Both of them are on the skids.

by Anonymousreply 61June 21, 2021 11:02 PM

Madonna calls Whitney "Mediocre":

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by Anonymousreply 62June 21, 2021 11:06 PM

[quote]And black audiences did nothing for Janet or Paula. Both of them are on the skids.

And how's Whitney doing in comparison to them hunny?

by Anonymousreply 63June 21, 2021 11:06 PM

She's outselling and outstreaming them both, HUNNY.

by Anonymousreply 64June 21, 2021 11:11 PM

there's more to making good music than having a nice voice...

by Anonymousreply 65June 21, 2021 11:24 PM

Pat @ r64, why have none of the funds from those mega streams have made it to her headstone?

What's going on with those .98 cent gardening stones from the Home Depot gurl???

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by Anonymousreply 66June 21, 2021 11:34 PM

R16 I don't know why the black community said she sold out, a lot of the successful songs she did on her first couple albums were written by black songwriters. Many weren't R&B, no, they were ballads and some went mainstream pop but how does that mean she "sold out" when she started out as a mainstream type of artist? The black community will eat its own. Because of those reactions fun the black community she went into Bobby's orbit for street cred and her life slowly spiraled out of control.

by Anonymousreply 67June 21, 2021 11:58 PM

Clive did whitewash her music on her albums, but singing live, Whitney was always a Soul - R&B - Gospel artist.

by Anonymousreply 68June 22, 2021 12:07 AM

Janet isn't a soul singer. Paula isn't black and today would be cancelled for being a "culture vulture". Whitney sang pop music with a gospel/soul voice which is more apparent on her live performances. It's stupid how some black people did try to slam Whitney for her music. She was successful and was a huge crossover act because of it. I would put her up with Michael Jackson and Prince in breaking the color barrier in pop music in the 80s.

by Anonymousreply 69June 22, 2021 12:51 AM

Madonna destroyed Whitney, Janet, and Paula in every single way.

Thread closed.

by Anonymousreply 70June 22, 2021 12:53 AM

Janet isn't a ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ singer.

FTFY

by Anonymousreply 71June 22, 2021 1:02 AM

Cissy was indeed a major cunt. Poor Whitney. To have suffered growing up with that nasty douche of a mother.

by Anonymousreply 72June 22, 2021 1:09 AM

Paula is Jewish. She was embraced on black radio, but never claimed to be black.

by Anonymousreply 73June 22, 2021 1:13 AM

It's pretty easy to destroy Janet Jackson. She couldn't sing.

And she was fat.

by Anonymousreply 74June 22, 2021 1:15 AM

[quote]Madonna destroyed Whitney, Janet, and Paula in every single way.

Only in a cadaver lookalike contest.

by Anonymousreply 75June 22, 2021 1:27 AM

[quote] Madonna destroyed Whitney, Janet, and Paula in every single way.

Madonna can't sing like Whitney and she can't dance like Janet or Paula. The only way Madonna beat them was she had a good ear for hits and was very creative with each album she produced. Madonna was stone cold businesswoman and knew what to sell.

by Anonymousreply 76June 22, 2021 1:31 AM

[quote] Janet isn't a ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ singer.

Neither is Madonna or Paula or Pebbles. That's why Whitney stuck out, she was THE pop girl that could sing.

by Anonymousreply 77June 22, 2021 1:39 AM

[quote] Tolerated is more like it. Madonna was extremely jealous of Whitney's success. Mariah's also,

No, she was never jealous of Mariah at all. That comment she made about Mariah was taken out of context. I've read the entire interview that quote came from, Madonna was asked if she'd want to sing silly pop songs like Mariah and she replied that she would rather die. She never said she would rather die than be Mariah Carey. But that's how the quote was spun.

And no, Whitney and Madonna were actually really cool with each other by the mid/late 90s. At Gianni Versace's funeral, Whitney winked at Madonna and said something like "I know that I was Gianni's favorite singer". This was according to Naomi Campbell. So they were actually cool after Madonna's Sex book period. And apparently Whitney even sent Madonna flowers when Madonna had some psychotic stalker.

by Anonymousreply 78June 22, 2021 1:41 AM

Martika, Tiffany and Debbie Gibson also could sing but they didn't get a major platform due to being written off as bubblegum kid stuff.

by Anonymousreply 79June 22, 2021 1:41 AM

R67, I think it was a response to her second album (Whitney) which really was disposable crap. Just compare the cover of her debut to her look in I Wanna Dance with Somebody. The images are complete opposites. And I think that's what those people at Soul Train were booing.

by Anonymousreply 80June 22, 2021 1:43 AM

Whitney was genuinely nice person until the drugs fried her brain cells. She wasn't a rude bitch like Madonna was or a phony and saboteur like Michael Jackson. Whitney reserved her shade for people who truly deserved it like Wendy Williams and Diane Sawyer.

by Anonymousreply 81June 22, 2021 1:43 AM

[quote] Madonna can't sing like Whitney and she can't dance like Janet or Paula.

None of those women were capable of writing lyrics to songs like Frozen, Vogue, Live to Tell, Like a Prayer, etc. I think, for pop songs, those songs have very good lyrics. Only Janet came close to being as visually creative as Madonna was. Madonna just had something about her that made her a far more interesting performer than those women.

by Anonymousreply 82June 22, 2021 1:45 AM

R82 Majority of these songs are not remembered to the same extent that her more commercial hits like "Material Girl" and "Like A Virgin" are. Yes, I agree that Madonna deserves credit for her songwriting and visual creativity which made up for her lack of singing and dancing talent. But I wouldn't say her songwriting was at a genius level like The Beatles though. Paula was a dancer and a studio creation to profit off of the hip-hop dance craze. Whitney was just a classic diva who sang her songs and her talent was her main selling point. Madonna was a self-promoting businesswoman and that's a big reason she was successful, she was aggressive and alpha and willed herself to stardom.

by Anonymousreply 83June 22, 2021 1:54 AM

Madonna was really the first big female music star who did not have a man behind her to push her into stardom, control her image, tell her what to sing etc. She was totally self-made and in complete control of herself and her career from day one. That was extraordinary and it resonated with a lot of people esp. women.

by Anonymousreply 84June 22, 2021 4:08 AM

[quote]She wasn't a rude bitch like Madonna was or a phony and saboteur like Michael Jackson

Agree r81. Whitney was not a bitch and those who knew or worked with her loved her. The tumultuous years of drug use caused her to lash out and made it even more sad to witness because her true nature was not like that. If this video of Cissy dropping that bitch bomb on Janet Jackson leaked in 1990 Whitney probably would've had a nervous breakdown.

by Anonymousreply 85June 22, 2021 4:44 AM

Crack is whack. CRACK IS CHEAP. You hear me DIANNNNNEEEEE!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 86June 22, 2021 4:48 AM

R80 yes, I Wanna Dance is pure pop but it is also a "standard" now in clubs today during the retro period of the night. It was big then. Yes her look was more commercial but it was also the 80s; Tina Turner had the big blonde wig and sang more rock pop songs, so why was Whitney attacked for seeking a more commercial route?

Just The Lonely Talking, Didn't We Almost Have It All, Where You Are, You're Still My Man, Where Do Broken Hearts Go were, to me, light R&B in the same fashion as Phyllis Hyman (but not as depressing) or Anita Baker (but not as jazz tinged). For the Love of You was an R&B cover of the Isley Brothers original and was arranged in a similar fashion as the original. I don't get the "sell out" moniker on her second album. So Emotional is more pop rock but that's just ONE don't in the entire album.

by Anonymousreply 87June 22, 2021 6:03 PM

Good point r87. Whitney got criticized for being "too pop" and not R&B enough but everybody was pop in the 80s, that was just a matter of styles changing. Tina Turner, Chaka Khan and Aretha Franklin all switched to a very pop sound in the 80s and nobody took issue with that, none of them were doing the style of music they did in the 70s which was more R&B and funk. It wasn't fair that Whitney got singled out because she was just doing what everybody else was doing, and it was still damn good music.

by Anonymousreply 88June 22, 2021 9:37 PM

[quote] Majority of these songs are not remembered to the same extent that her more commercial hits like "Material Girl" and "Like A Virgin" are

Like a Prayer and Hung Up do best on Spotify and digital singles while La Isla Bonita does best on Youtube. But I get your point. I think Frozen is probably the best remembered song from outside of Madonna's peak, except for Hung Up.

No, defiitely not a lyrical genius, but a very underrated one. Like a Prayer is a perfect pop song and the lyrics to Express Yourself and Vogue are great as slogans.

by Anonymousreply 89June 22, 2021 10:29 PM

[quote]None of those women were capable of writing lyrics to songs like Frozen, Vogue, Live to Tell, Like a Prayer, etc. I think, for pop songs, those songs have very good lyrics.

I agree r82, Madonna wasn't simply making music, she was a movement.

I think people should also remember the rest of the drab music scene in the 80s allowed perfect conditions for these ladies music to take hold. Anything that wasn't a power ballad was going to stand out in the mid to late 80s. Janet Jackson's Control took off like wild-fire because it was such a huge departure sonically from anything people had heard up until that point.

Whitney was the purest talent and anything her voice was on was going to be successful. Its been said over and over no other singer could bring life to the material she sang.

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by Anonymousreply 90June 23, 2021 2:50 AM

Madonna was a cultural phenomenon in a way that would be impossible for anyone to achieve now.

by Anonymousreply 91June 23, 2021 2:56 AM

R91, I shudder to think what would happen if Ariana or Demi Lovato became a cultural phenomenon. Britney was bad enough.

by Anonymousreply 92June 23, 2021 2:59 AM

[quote] Janet Jackson's Control took off like wild-fire because it was such a huge departure sonically from anything people had heard up until that point.

No, Control took off like wildfire because people were tired of waiting for Michael Jackson to release a new album.

by Anonymousreply 93June 23, 2021 4:04 AM

True, Janet Jackson was kind of a placeholder for the public until Michael released a new album. If he had been more prolific and released a new studio album at the end of '85 or beginning of '86 it's possible Janet's career would have been very different. All the attention would've been on Michael and his new songs.

by Anonymousreply 94June 23, 2021 4:47 AM

r93 even if people were tired of waiting for Michael Jackson to put out a new album, Control was still a breath of fresh air in the mid 80s. And by 1990, forget about all these bitches, Michael too. Whitney wasn't stressed in this clip for nothing. Janet was the at the pinnacle of musical culture with Rhythm Nation.

by Anonymousreply 95June 23, 2021 5:11 AM

Rhythm Nation was popular, but Janet wasn't in the same league as Whitney or Madonna.

by Anonymousreply 96June 23, 2021 5:52 AM

r96 they are so different as music acts. The Jacksons were hit making machines. In the last 30 years Rhythm Nation has been referenced by innumerable artists, a timeless powerful imagery that was way, way before its time.

If you watch the chart history at r90 you will notice that of course The Bodyguard was the peak of Whitney's music career. Whitney was an incomparable singer but she did not chart like Janet and Madonna did, not even close.

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by Anonymousreply 97June 23, 2021 6:15 AM

Nobody has been checking for Janet Jackson in at least 20 years, at least in mainstream America. She's been more of an urban niche artist for a long time. Whitney is an enduring legend.

by Anonymousreply 98June 23, 2021 6:25 AM

I don't know any Zers who even really know who the fuck Janet Jackson is. Some artists are of their time and don't translate to later generations.

by Anonymousreply 99June 23, 2021 6:26 AM

Control and Rhythm Nation haven't aged well. Both albums were overproduced and sound dated today.

by Anonymousreply 100June 23, 2021 6:33 AM

@r78 “sing silly pop songs like Mariah“ as opposed to the sonatas Madonna was composing? Please, your delusion is embarrassing. Mariah debuted in 1990 with vision of love, the song went number one with no gimmicks. So did “Love Takes Time", "Someday", and "I Don't Wanna Cry". All are better more realized pieces of music than what Madonna shit out at the same time. I’d say that “Vogue”, “Like a Prayer”, and “express yourself” we’re all much more silly and far more gimmicky than any of Mariah’s songs. They released the same year as Mariah’s debut, and we’re pure bubblegum soulless pop. Madonnas music is a joke, it’s funny you think we had any right to call anyone else’s music “silly pop” in the early 90s.

by Anonymousreply 101June 23, 2021 7:17 AM

Cissy is one bitter bitch! This homophobic cunt resents everyone and thinks she was more talented than any other singer.

by Anonymousreply 102June 23, 2021 7:17 AM

Who are these cute little peeps y'all talking about?

by Anonymousreply 103June 23, 2021 7:46 AM

[quote] So did “Love Takes Time", "Someday", and "I Don't Wanna Cry". All are better more realized pieces of music than what Madonna shit out at the same time. I’d say that “Vogue”, “Like a Prayer”, and “express yourself” we’re all much more silly and far more gimmicky than any of Mariah’s songs

Vogue, Like a Prayer and Express Yourself are actual classic pop songs that have stood the test of time. Those three singles you list arguably have not.

[quote] Madonnas music is a joke

Except it's not. She has far more singles that are considered classics than Mariah does. And her music is FAR more critically acclaimed. Mariah has some classic songs too but she's not even in the same ball park as Madonna when it comes to great songs.

[quote] all much more silly and far more gimmicky than any of Mariah’s songs.

I"ve never heard anyone describe Like a Prayer, Vogue or Express Yourself as silly or gimmicky. Madonna has some gimmicky songs but those are definitely not examples of it. Butterfly, Touch My Body, Honey, Obsessed, etc. are plenty silly, dumb and/or gimmicky. And seriously, have you read Mariah's album titles after Daydream? Every single one of them is pure camp. All except for Caution.

by Anonymousreply 104June 23, 2021 7:51 AM

Fuck you R104. My classic albums "Pearl Necklace", "The Silence of My Lambs" and "O. M. G. Whatevs! " were rated the three greatest albums of all time by "Rolling Stone With Moss" magazine. You sure ain't no lamb.

by Anonymousreply 105June 23, 2021 7:59 AM

I actually like Mariah Carey more than Madonna. I also like Whitney and Gaga waayyy more than Madonna. Janet? Well, I give Madonna the edge there.

Still, none of them came close to Madonna in terms of the combination of sales, popularity, zeitgeist material, culture shifting, etc. Whitney came the closest. But really. Just stop. We can hate Madonna, but we can't be delusional about her pace among the hierarchy of female pop stars. She's the top.

by Anonymousreply 106June 23, 2021 8:04 AM

@r104 “actual classic pop songs” yet her recurrent streams are abysmal. The new generations have no interest in Madonna, don’t know her music, and basically know her as an old Hollywood woman with a botched face. Mariah, on the other hand, has multiple songs that are actually relevant in 2021. Obsessed, Heartbreaker, Always Be My Baby, We Belong Together All out-stream every single Madonna song. And just last year Mariah got her record 19th number one with all I want for Christmas, which also out-streams all of Madonnas forgotten music. Madonnas songs sounds dated, have poor streams, and therefore are unequivocally not classics. For that they would have to be remembered. Ironically, Cyndi Lauper has ended up with much more remembered actual classics. Time after Time, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun and even True Colors are waaaaaay more relevant today than any Madonna song. They out-stream her on every metric consistently and by a lot.

by Anonymousreply 107June 23, 2021 8:10 AM

The pop song/rapper trend was popularized by Mariah, melismatic singing in pop music, the modern day Xmas attempts, the meld of R&B and pop, her remixes. musically Mariah’s legacy has a bigger influence/presence in current pop trends as of now. And by a lot. Madonnas sound is oooooooooolllld crusty and dated. She’s the best at three things, influencing alot of tween girls to dress like her in the mid 80s, building a rabid fanbase that can keep her above water where others would be drowning in irrelevance, and selling music like cases of coke. She’s nothing more than a soulless product. A business, and one that has gone toe up over the last decade. Look up washed up in the dictionary, and you’ll find a picture of Madonna lounging in a milky bath filled with wilted red rose petals.

by Anonymousreply 108June 23, 2021 8:18 AM

Madonna's music has definitely stood the test of time and it's still relevant.

by Anonymousreply 109June 23, 2021 1:52 PM

Madonna isn't relevant to people under a certain age. She has been a joke since the mid-2000s and she alienated her potential younger audience with her awful social media presence. Madge stans on DL don't seem to understand this. Yes, she is a huge and impactful artist but her glory days are behind her.

Whitney's death saved her legacy. She was also a joke in the 2000s and everyone was regularly mocking her and her awful performances. But when she passed away, her career got a revival and now young people are singing her songs.

by Anonymousreply 110June 23, 2021 1:58 PM

Nobody from that period is relevant to people under a certain age. Current teenagers/twentysomethings aren't following any singers from the 80s or 90s.

by Anonymousreply 111June 23, 2021 2:00 PM

I think all of their music is dated. Madonna, Mariah, Janet, Paula, Whitney, et cetera. Nobody from this list transcended the overproduction that plagued the 80s, 90s and 2000s. They all had good music and I would say Madonna was the most creative and daring. Whitney was the most talented singer, Mariah the most talented songwriter, Janet the most talented performer, Paula the most talented dancer and Madonna the most talented visionary.

by Anonymousreply 112June 23, 2021 2:08 PM

[quote] Madonnas songs sounds dated, have poor streams

Madonna does far better on Youtube, as she's a much more visual artist than Mariah, or Whitney.

by Anonymousreply 113June 23, 2021 2:08 PM

Mariah and Whitney are both singers not performers. Whitney though could perform, she moved and danced the groove and brought soul into her performance. Mariah is just an inflatable Barbie doll who just stands around and sings to the mic, she has no excuse for lip-syncing. Madonna does better on YouTube and Janet has been improving. Beyoncé also does good on YouTube because like Madonna, she is very visual too.

by Anonymousreply 114June 23, 2021 2:12 PM

I think Madonna could have still been somewhat popular if she kept making albums like Music, Hard Candy and COADF or re-released older albums and remixes. Unlike Whitney and Mariah who ruined their voices thus ruined their careers, Madonna never had a voice to begin with and dance music isn't about strong vocals anyway. She really has mishandled her career and being an attention whore on social media cheapened her brand more so than that Sex book, the Britney kiss and American Life. The ship has sailed for her.

by Anonymousreply 115June 23, 2021 2:21 PM

[quote] her recurrent streams are abysmal.

Actually, they aren't "abysmal". Outside of Christmas, Madonna gets more average daily streams than Mariah. The only reason Madonna dominates Spotify is because of her Merry Christmas album (especially All I Want for Christmas).

by Anonymousreply 116June 23, 2021 10:46 PM

What's so funny is that Dionne Warwick is currently more culturally relevant than all of them.

by Anonymousreply 117June 23, 2021 11:42 PM

[quote] What's so funny is that Dionne Warwick is currently more culturally relevant than all of them.

Now THAT'S funny.

by Anonymousreply 118June 23, 2021 11:47 PM

Dionne is getting more press and attention than all of them right now r118. Have you been living under a rock for the past few months?

by Anonymousreply 119June 23, 2021 11:49 PM

[quote] Dionne is getting more press and attention than all of them right now [R118]. Have you been living under a rock for the past few months?

Whatever you say.

by Anonymousreply 120June 23, 2021 11:50 PM

I'm going to hell for this but I'm laughing my ass off watching this video.

To be fair it was made in 2011 before Whitney's death

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by Anonymousreply 121June 24, 2021 12:00 AM

Girls, girls. They're all irrelevant now including Miss Dionne.

by Anonymousreply 122June 24, 2021 12:01 AM

Get with the program r120. Dionne is a "thing" right now with being the Queen of Twitter and all. 60 Minutes, The NY Times, People Magazine and others have all done profiles on her. She's very hot.

by Anonymousreply 123June 24, 2021 12:04 AM

[quote] Get with the program [R120]. Dionne is a "thing" right now with being the Queen of Twitter and all. 60 Minutes, The NY Times, People Magazine and others have all done profiles on her. She's very hot.

Yes, we get it, you think Dionne is the hottest thing, Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 124June 24, 2021 12:07 AM

r124 it's just an observation that Dionne, of all people, has had quite a resurgence. My niece follows her on Twitter. My niece is only vaguely aware of who Janet Jackson is.

by Anonymousreply 125June 24, 2021 12:33 AM

Dionne has become a meme. She's sassy and speaks hr mind. I would say Mariah is still popular for her memes too. Madonna failed to become a meme because she can't loosen up and have fun anymore.

by Anonymousreply 126June 24, 2021 5:48 AM

@r113 and @r116 you can make shit up all you want, but it still doesn’t make your lies true. Mariah has 2B more views than Madonna on YOUTUBE. Mariah has 1.5B more streams on spotify. Mariah is still ahead even if you take out the 600M generated by AIWFCIY. Mariah Carey by the numbers: Youtube: 4.8B views 14 videos above 100m Spotify: 5 songs above 100m

Madonna Youtube: 2.8B views 5 videos above 100m Spotify: 3 songs above 100m

Whitney Houston Youtube: 3B views 7 videos above 100m Spotify: 5 songs above 100m

Daily Totals for Wednesday 20th January 4. Mariah Carey - 2,368,228 streams 5. Madonna - 2,018,485 streams

Mariah's famed hit "All I Want For Christmas For You" only brought in 97,581 streams yesterday! Not surprising considering these numbers are from January. Madonnas numbers are abysmal for someone who is supposedly worlds bigger than Mariah and Whitney. She’s over and forgotten.

by Anonymousreply 127June 24, 2021 7:35 AM

Madonna has a cultural relevance that none of the others achieved. She really changed things. She'll be in the history books.

by Anonymousreply 128June 24, 2021 2:57 PM

[quote] . Mariah Carey by the numbers: Youtube: 4.8B views

Madonna has 4 billion views on youtube, not 2.8 billion.

by Anonymousreply 129June 24, 2021 10:46 PM

Madonna's spotify views are somewhat misleading. Her song views are divided up among several different versions. It's the same for other artists but the difference is when you go to her page, it doesn't combine them under one song. Madonna has 8 songs over 100 million. Madonna's youtube is similiarish.

by Anonymousreply 130June 24, 2021 10:55 PM

According to youtube charts, Madonna got 17.6 million views in the past 7 days. Mariah got 16.8. Mariah is far more popular than Madonna is in America so that's actually kind of dissapointing on Mariah's end. It actually really speaks to Madonna's global popularity that she does slightly better than Mariah without anywhere near the views from America. If she did, her youtube views would be wayyyy higher.

by Anonymousreply 131June 24, 2021 11:03 PM

Vile homophobe Jesus nut Cissy Houston was one of the things that destroyed Whitney.

But it's true that Paula and Janet had no talent compared to her.

by Anonymousreply 132June 25, 2021 12:16 AM

Whitney should've kept her family at arm's length and live completely independently from them like Madonna did. They caused so much stress and anxiety for her.

by Anonymousreply 133June 25, 2021 12:49 AM

R133 I think that was harder for Whitney because of cultural values. In the black community, we are taught to deeply value our family and church community, defer to elders and there's less of an individualistic streak. I've known far more black families that have multigenerational households than white families too. Madonna is Italian and the culture is family-oriented but she rejected a lot of her upbringing when she moved out to NYC and pushed her solo career

by Anonymousreply 134June 25, 2021 2:37 PM

Madonna, with her botched face, fake butt and desperate need for attention that any psychiatrist would diagnose as malignant narcissism based on her IG page alone, couldn't sing as good as Whitney and wasn't nearly as good a performer/dancer as Janet. The infamous "Bite your tongue" moment from Truth or Dare when one of her dancers told her that her outfit was "very Janet Jackson, Rhythm Nation," and the snide comments that she's made about Whitney over the years are only proof of her jealousy and insecurity.

Whitney and Janet were good friends. They're both now rightfully in the RNRHOF, even though Janet got in a few years before Whitney, but they were both LONG overdue. Whitney might not have a laundry list of iconic videos like Janet, and she doesn't have an album as iconic and culturally relevant as RHYTHM NATION, but some of her singles are timeless. Whitney even covered Janet's "Control" in concert in the late '80s, as seen in this video.

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by Anonymousreply 135June 25, 2021 2:53 PM

DL stans always pitting female artists against each other. Vadgebot and Janbot need to have a boxing match and settle the score once and for all.

by Anonymousreply 136June 25, 2021 3:01 PM

umm, janet JUST got in, so she did NOT get in "a few years before whitney." take your bullshit somewhere else, jabba.

by Anonymousreply 137June 25, 2021 3:06 PM

Why is Whitney in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? She was never known for rock, funk, dance or even hardcore R&B. She was a pop artist and even her forays into other genres were basically pop-soul, pop-gospel and pop-rap.

by Anonymousreply 138June 25, 2021 3:42 PM

R138 The same reason Michael Jackson, Madonna, Tupac, Janet, NWA and Jay-Z are there. At this point, they just give it to anyone with influence over popular music. They should just rename it though.

by Anonymousreply 139June 25, 2021 3:46 PM

[quote]umm, janet JUST got in, so she did NOT get in "a few years before whitney."

Umm, she actually DID. Janet's induction was in 2019, so it was a couple of years, not a few, but still BEFORE. You might have known that if your head wasn't shoved so far up your diseased ass.

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by Anonymousreply 140June 25, 2021 3:50 PM

Rhythm Nation sounds dated now. It was a huge hit at the time, but it hasn't held up well.

by Anonymousreply 141June 25, 2021 4:55 PM

[quote]Rhythm Nation sounds dated now. It was a huge hit at the time, but it hasn't held up well.

You tried it. Not only is it pretty much the only still-culturally relevant dance/pop album from the '80s, but it's songs are constantly sampled.

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by Anonymousreply 142June 25, 2021 5:02 PM

Nobody still checks for Rhythm Nation anymore except a small niche audience. It hasn't really stood the test of time and isn't relevant to most people in 2021.

Janet Jackson's popularity faded with mainstream American audiences in the mid-90s and she was pretty much off their radar after that.

by Anonymousreply 143June 25, 2021 5:22 PM

[quote] wasn't nearly as good a performer/dancer as Janet.

Madonna isn't as good of a dancer as Janet but she is a MUCH more interesting performer than Janet. Janet has danced the exact same way for like 35 years. Madonna was never jealous of Janet. Hence, why Janet was not even mentioned in that letter where she mentioned Whitney and Sharon Stone. This despite the fact that Janet was actually outselling her during Erotica phase. She just thought Janet was beneath her--as she expressed to Michael personally lol.

by Anonymousreply 144June 25, 2021 6:08 PM

Madonna was totally self-made, the first woman in her category of pop music to not have a husband/manager/producer/songwriting team as a Svengali-like figure. She did it all herself and was in complete control of her life, her image and her career. Mad respect for that.

by Anonymousreply 145June 25, 2021 6:15 PM

R145, let's be honest, not totally self-made. She did need all those producers and music writers. But she was totally in control of her overall sound and image. She's the type of person who would focus on the music arrangement for hours and make tons of little suggestions/changes and then write the lyrics in like 1 hour. And that was huge for that time. People now forget how solo female artists were never really considered on the same level of their male counterparts until Madonna came along. All of a sudden, here was this woman outselling all her male counterparts (except Michael Jackson) and people had never seen anything like that, ever. True Blue set the record for topping the charts in the most countries which was a demonstration of Madonna's popularity and her being the first global female music star. And then she set that record AGAIN with Confessions when she was in her mid-40s (and Hung Up did the same as far as songs go)! Her female counterparts were DOA by the time they were in their late 30s. She was able to compete with Britney Spears from 2001 through 2008 which is just insane considering how much younger Britney was. Hopefully, when Madonna dies, it will help people remember what she was at her peak instead of what she is now.

by Anonymousreply 146June 25, 2021 6:23 PM

[quote] Umm, she actually DID. Janet's induction was in 2019, so it was a couple of years, not a few, but still BEFORE. You might have known that if your head wasn't shoved so far up your diseased ass.

No, you piece of shit, they were ONE year apart. Janet bought her way in in 2019 and Whitney got in in 2020. As usual, Jabba, you're wrong and a stupid fat gorilla cunt.

by Anonymousreply 147June 25, 2021 6:29 PM

True, r146. Madonna changed everything for women in the music business. Her huge success took everyone by surprise, including the music industry itself.

by Anonymousreply 148June 25, 2021 7:12 PM

R148, I don't think any entertainer that came after her, except maybe Eminem, had that same effect. How many solo artists aside from Michalel Jackson and Elvis changed the music industry itself? Not very many.

by Anonymousreply 149June 25, 2021 7:15 PM

It's amazing how Madonna became the biggest thing in the world when you consider how she started. She was a club kid (or whatever they were called then) in Downtown NYC and her first album was essentially a disco album. Disco/dance music was pretty much dead at the time and was not taken seriously at all by the music industry, which was very rock-oriented. Everybody thought she would be a flash in the pan singer but she surprised the hell out of all of them.

by Anonymousreply 150June 25, 2021 7:32 PM

LOL at the avalanche of posts from the deluded VageStan at R143-R150. Honey, Madonna's last album went wood, her auditorium tour flopped, Netflix isn't biting on airing said flop tour and her wannabe-Bohemian Rhapsody "biopic" is D.O.A. AND, she looks worse these days than Cat Lady Jocelyn Wildenstein. Nobody is checking for her and nobody will ever be checking for her again, and it doesn't matter how much she continues to embarrass herself on social media trying to shock.

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by Anonymousreply 151June 25, 2021 7:47 PM

Madame -Lax

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by Anonymousreply 152June 25, 2021 7:47 PM

Madame X-Lax, lol.

by Anonymousreply 153June 25, 2021 7:47 PM

Madonna's adopted son David is a part of the Rhythm Nation too (and here she is in the link, introducing him dancing to the iconic Janet track)...

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by Anonymousreply 154June 25, 2021 8:06 PM

r151 we're talking about Madonna's overall cultural impact, not what she is now. Do try to keep up.

by Anonymousreply 155June 25, 2021 8:11 PM

R154, which means she is over a petty feud that occurred almost 30 fucking years ago (one that you seem to still be dwelling on).

by Anonymousreply 156June 25, 2021 8:13 PM

Janet Jackson was not in the same class as Whitney or Madonna, who were truly international superstars and really hit something in the zeitgeist. Janet was a popular entertainer who was pretty much done in the mainstream by the late 90s.

by Anonymousreply 157June 25, 2021 8:16 PM

Janet was A list in America but B list elsewhere. She never had albums that were popularly globally the way True Blue, The Immaculate Collection or The Bodyguard were. That's probably because the rest of the world didn't really care for R&B until the late 90s. Destiny's Child and Aaliyah were huge in Europe and the UK but their success would have been unimaginable just a few years earlier.

by Anonymousreply 158June 25, 2021 8:20 PM

[quote] Janet was A list in America but B list elsewhere

Sure, Jan (pun intended). Singers who are “B-list elsewhere” often sell out tours all over Europe, break records for fastest sellout of the Tokyo Dome and are bum-rushed by paps and fans at the airport in Australia and Bangkok like in the clip below. But you tried it.

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by Anonymousreply 159June 25, 2021 10:00 PM

[quote] Janet Jackson was not in the same class as Whitney or Madonna

You’re right, she’s in a class above. You’d never see her yelling about Anthrax while high on crack on a reality show, or humping a pole on top of a bar at 65 years old while wearing a blue wig because she doesn’t want to admit that her glory days were eons ago.

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by Anonymousreply 160June 25, 2021 10:04 PM

Madonna is always relevant, always being talked about, always in the public eye.

When is Janet ever noticed? Old videos?

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by Anonymousreply 161June 25, 2021 10:10 PM

R159, no. She was not huge outside of America. She did have popular songs but not really albums. You're posting the kind of scene that Madonna, Mariah, Celine and Whitney experienced in LOADS of other cities.

by Anonymousreply 162June 25, 2021 10:17 PM

Janet Jackson was pretty much a black thing after the late 90s, at the latest. Maybe a little earlier. Mainstream (read: white) America just lost interest in her, and she was never as big as Whitney or Madonna. Whitney, in spite of all her problems, was a superstar and genuinely loved by the public to the very end.

by Anonymousreply 163June 25, 2021 10:47 PM

[quote] Janet Jackson was pretty much a black thing after the late 90s, at the latest.

You keep repeating this, and it's just not true:

#1 Doesn't Really Matter (2000)

#1 All For You (2001)

#3 Someone to Call My Lover Lover (2001)

These were legitimate smash hits on the US chart.

by Anonymousreply 164June 25, 2021 10:51 PM

[quote] Whitney, in spite of all her problems, was a superstar and genuinely loved by the public to the very end.

She was loved after more than a decade of being the butt of thousands of jokes in the media. In fact, it wasn't until she died that her music was disccovered again. It's really interesting that the biggest female music stars have period where they are all but abandoned while their male counterparts get off much easier by comparison. Michael raped children while Thriller continued to sell millions every year.

by Anonymousreply 165June 25, 2021 11:01 PM

[quote] Michael raped children while Thriller continued to sell millions every year.

F&F troll R165, blocked and reported.

by Anonymousreply 166June 25, 2021 11:14 PM

R166, how was that a "troll" comment? It's true! Thriller continues to sell millions and this was AFTER Michael was outed as being pedophile.

by Anonymousreply 167June 25, 2021 11:18 PM

A pedophile rapist.

by Anonymousreply 168June 25, 2021 11:25 PM

Cissy: "Don't let anybody change you."

also Cissy: "No lesbo."

by Anonymousreply 169June 25, 2021 11:30 PM

#NoLesbo

by Anonymousreply 170June 25, 2021 11:34 PM

LOL at Madonna's latest travesty at NYC Pride. Her body is terrible, and the performance registered nary a blip on the pop culture radar. I literally would not have even known about it had it not been mentioned on DL. Had the younger, more talented OSCAR WINNER Lady Gaga done the same thing, it would've been splashed all over entertainment news.

by Anonymousreply 171June 26, 2021 12:35 AM

The travesty at R161 vs recent Janet below tells you all you need to know about which of these two women is classier.

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by Anonymousreply 172June 26, 2021 12:39 AM

[quote]it would've been splashed all over entertainment news.

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by Anonymousreply 173June 26, 2021 12:39 AM

Janet, Whitney and Madonna all worked hard and are iconic in different ways. I don't like the revisionist history of Lady Gaga, Beyoncé and Britney Spears being on those three ladies level of mega stardom.

by Anonymousreply 174June 26, 2021 12:39 AM

[quote]it would've been splashed all over entertainment news.

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by Anonymousreply 175June 26, 2021 12:39 AM

[quote]it would've been splashed all over entertainment news.

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by Anonymousreply 176June 26, 2021 12:40 AM

[quote]it would've been splashed all over entertainment news.

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by Anonymousreply 177June 26, 2021 12:41 AM

[quote]it would've been splashed all over entertainment news.

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by Anonymousreply 178June 26, 2021 12:41 AM

Sad that Madonna appeared topless at a bar and it didn't even register anywhere. I heard nothing about her impromptu Pride debacle anywhere on the news. It was only when I came here that I heard about it. And now that I've seen pictures, I'd like some eye and brain bleach.

by Anonymousreply 179June 26, 2021 12:42 AM

Her Pride performance didn't even trend on Twitter. LMAO!!!

by Anonymousreply 180June 26, 2021 12:43 AM

Looks like all of the entertainment news IS covering Madonna's appearance last night for Pride.

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by Anonymousreply 181June 26, 2021 12:43 AM

She's 65 years old with fake tits, a pulled back face, a big fake butt and batwings. Of COURSE nobody reported on it.

by Anonymousreply 182June 26, 2021 12:43 AM

She's doing an auction, ala Janet's recent auction? The one that netted millions and made Janet one of the most collectible living artists of all time? How reductive.

by Anonymousreply 183June 26, 2021 12:45 AM

I didn't hear about her sad little shindig on E! or ET. Nor was it talked about on any of the daytime talk shows. Looks like her next tour will have to be scaled down to performing at bars. Eh, what am I saying? MANdonna is too old to tour now.

by Anonymousreply 184June 26, 2021 12:47 AM

Janet mostly stuck to R&B music. She wasn't going to be as internally successful as Madonna and Whitney because of that. Same reason Prince, Usher and Beyoncé weren't as internationally successful as Michael Jackson, Justin Timberlake and Rihanna respectively, all of whom had more of a poppish sound than R&B.

by Anonymousreply 185June 26, 2021 12:58 AM

[quote]Janet, Whitney and Madonna all worked hard and are iconic in different ways. I don't like the revisionist history of Lady Gaga, Beyoncé and Britney Spears being on those three ladies level of mega stardom.

Lady Gaga has outsold Madonna in the US, and Beyonce will outsell Madonna in the next few years. Janet is not even in the top 10 biggest-selling female singers, so she's not really considered an iconic artist. If she weren't Michael Jackson's sister, I doubt she would have had half the career she did. Most of her success came from her family name.

Highest Certified Female Artists in US History:

#1. Rihanna - 224M

#2. Taylor Swift - 190M

#3. Nicki Minaj - 129M

#4. Mariah Carey - 123M

#5. Katy Perry - 122M

#6. Lady Gaga - 104M

#7. Whitney Houston - 89M

#8. Ariana Grande - 85M

#9 Madonna - 84M

#10 Beyonce - 80.8M

#11 Barbra Streisand - 80.4M

by Anonymousreply 186June 26, 2021 12:59 AM

Janet's success came from Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis who were influenced by Prince. They influenced Babyface, LA Reid, Timbaland and Danja. So Jam and Lewis actually deserve heavy credit for a lot of modern pop music.

by Anonymousreply 187June 26, 2021 1:08 AM

Jabba, you're a fucking retard gorilla. And you're always wrong.

by Anonymousreply 188June 26, 2021 1:19 AM

[quote]She was loved after more than a decade of being the butt of thousands of jokes in the media. In fact, it wasn't until she died that her music was disccovered again.

Bullshit. Whitney's music was consistently popular.

by Anonymousreply 189June 26, 2021 1:21 AM

HAGdonna’s blue wig at R173 is SO Lady Gaga circa 2011

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by Anonymousreply 190June 26, 2021 1:35 AM

R189, actually, it was not. That's revisionism. Minus I Have Nothing and IWALY, her hits stopped being popular after she was outed as being an addict. Her digital singles sales on intues were really bad until her death. That's when she sold the majority of them. It was her death that caused a resurgence in her popularity via itunes and youtube and then spotify once it became popular. I like Whitney, but that;s the truth. And that's not a knock against Whitney. It's actually a knock against the general public. Whitney did drugs and Madonna aged and made an ass of herself. They both lost popularity with the public. While their male counterparts could do worse and not suffer anywhere near as badly for it.

by Anonymousreply 191June 26, 2021 2:14 AM

Sorry r191 but Whitney's music never went away. It was consistently popular and you still heard her songs all the time.

by Anonymousreply 192June 26, 2021 2:16 AM

R186, you post that all the time and you have are reminded time and time again--streaming and digital singles sales are NOT equivalent in any way to physical album and singles sales. That's why Rihanna ranks so highly on your list. The bulk of her number is due to digital singles. It's just not the same at all.

by Anonymousreply 193June 26, 2021 2:16 AM

You can't judge anyone's popularity by sales, since so many people don't pay for music. That's very outdated, and has been for a long time.

by Anonymousreply 194June 26, 2021 2:17 AM

R192, I hear Madonna's songs all the time. That's not proof that she's popular. There was definitely a shift in how much her music was played after she was outed as being an addict. I remember when I was younger oldies radio used to play her classic songs all the time. Once her drug habit was revealed, that changed. It was only after her death that her music was celebrated in the same way it was before her drug addiction became common knowledge.

by Anonymousreply 195June 26, 2021 2:18 AM

R194, yes, you can. It is not "outdated". Streams can be quantified into sales. It's done all the time. And there is a huge difference between hauling your ass to the store to make an actual purchase of an album that costs $18 versus streaming something for free online.

by Anonymousreply 196June 26, 2021 2:21 AM

[quote] Janet Jackson was pretty much a black thing after the late 90s, at the latest. Maybe a little earlier. Mainstream (read: white) America just lost interest in her, and she was never as big as Whitney or Madonna. Whitney, in spite of all her problems, was a superstar and genuinely loved by the public to the very end.

I agree and it's mainly because Janet stuck with an R&B sound and she starred in predominately black movies like the hood classics Poetic Justice and The Nutty Professor 2 and of course those Tyler Perry movies. I don't think that's a bad thing and really not an indication of quality decline. The Velvet Rope was her best work and her early 2000s albums were still good. Similarly, Toni Braxton's huge success was from singing corny pop ballads and when she switched to a heavier and more sexual R&B sound in the 2000s, she stopped being as successful with mainstream white America.

Whitney was mainstream pop throughout the 80s and 90s and The Bodyguard was one of the highest grossing films of 1992. My Love is Your Love was her first fully R&B album and it did well. But her albums throughout the 2000s were all embarrassing flops. Mariah was R&B but still had pop ballads on her albums like "Hero" and "We Belong Together" which kept on her charts.

by Anonymousreply 197June 26, 2021 2:22 AM

Sorry r195 the one radio station you listened to isn't evidence. Whitney's music was still played and was still popular throughout the 2000s. And sales and streams are two separate things.

by Anonymousreply 198June 26, 2021 2:25 AM

[quote]I hear Madonna's songs all the time. That's not proof that she's popular.

Madonna's back catalogue is still popular, Madonna herself is in the late-stage Bette Davis/Mae West period of her career.

by Anonymousreply 199June 26, 2021 2:26 AM

[quote] Madonna's back catalogue is still popular,

It does OK but nothing to brag about honestly minus a couple of songs here and there. She is nowhere near Michael Jackson, Queen, Guns N'Roses, Metallica, etc. Of course, most of htose names are rock so that could be a huge part ot it. I think it's also because, like you mentioned, she's at a point in her career where she's just old and this is her lowpoint. For what it's worth, the fact that it took her this long to hit this low is impressive.

[quote] Whitney's music was still played and was still popular throughout the 2000s.

Again--the fact that she struggled to sell a good amount of digital singles until her death says otherwise. This despite the fact that Madonna and Mariah's classic hits did well in that format. It doesn't matter how much she was played on the raido. If she wasn't selling, she wasn't selling. Therefore, her material was NOT popular. It's not hard to understand that.

by Anonymousreply 200June 26, 2021 2:31 AM

[quote]Mainstream (read: white) America just lost interest in her

Sorry to dim your petty, racist fantasies, but no. Janet was breaking radio and chart records into the 2000s, and her audiences have always been a rainbow coalition of races, ages, etc. Even her purported "biggest fan" is a white guy.

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by Anonymousreply 201June 26, 2021 2:31 AM

Who knew that Madonna was at Pride? That went WAY under the radar. Talk about not being popular anymore!

by Anonymousreply 202June 26, 2021 2:33 AM

Janet's decline really began in 2004 with the Superbowl stunt. Not the late 90s.

by Anonymousreply 203June 26, 2021 2:33 AM

Madonna stopped being really popular after Confessions On A Dancefloor. Hung Up was her last universally beloved song. The public was already getting sick of her after the American Life controversy and the Britney kiss. When Madge started collabing with Timbaland, it was over for her. Janet had a minor hit with "Feedback" because it was played on MTV and BET but she gave up at the time and Tyler Perry was paying her bills more.

by Anonymousreply 204June 26, 2021 2:36 AM

She stopped being popular in America after Confessions but not the rest of the world. In the rest of the wolrd, she was still extremely popular. But it was all downhill for her in America. 4 Minutes (god I hate that song) actually was pretty popular globally but not nearly as big as Hung Up.

Actually, the biggest thing that prevents Madonna from having higher steaming numbers is her diminished American popularity. In the past 7 days, Madonna has outstreamed Mariah by something like 800,000 on youtube but her American total is like 2 million less than Mariah's amount.

by Anonymousreply 205June 26, 2021 2:40 AM

The Super Bowl really did kill Janet’s career, unfairly.

by Anonymousreply 206June 26, 2021 2:41 AM

I think Madonna's awful behavior is a bigger reason why her music has been ignored by younger people. Her social media is creepy and disturbing and that would kill of any interest for potential new fans. She doesn't promote her older music at all and she is very dismissive to her fans. She isn't charming like Dolly and Cher or funny like Dionne and Mariah. So she isn't becoming a meme anytime soon.

by Anonymousreply 207June 26, 2021 2:44 AM

The Super Bowl killed it and the backlash was over the top but she should have known better. It was a stupid decision. People can blame CBS, Justin, the FCC, but she chose to expose her titty.

And speaking of titties, Madonna has become so pathetic and grotesque.

I'm a fan of all three - M, Janet and Whitney - but Madonna really continues to trash her legacy, whereas Janet isn't embarrassing herself and even Whitney in her later years showed strength and resiliency despite her setbacks. They retained dignity; Madonna doesn't.

by Anonymousreply 208June 26, 2021 2:47 AM

R207, it's definitely the pits for her right now. Hopefully her death (whenever that is) lets people remember Madonna at her peak versus now.

by Anonymousreply 209June 26, 2021 2:47 AM

Janet gave birth at 51. I thought she was the one private, same pop star of the 80s and 90s, but that kid proved me wrong.

by Anonymousreply 210June 26, 2021 2:50 AM

R208, Whitney didn't retain dignity--I mean, she was a crack head and she had that horrible reality tv show with Bobby Brown--but her death absolutely brought her back her respectability. Madonna has lost any of her cool factor that she managed to maintain for decades. Guy Richie divorcing her really pushed her mentally over the edge.

by Anonymousreply 211June 26, 2021 2:50 AM

Madonna herself refuses to become a heritage act or nostalgia act or become known as those things but... she is those things. And if she embraced being a nostalgia act, she would make so much $$$.

But she thinks she's edgy by exposing her tits and probably thinks she's pushing feminism and being a groundbreaker, but she's destroying her brand. As r207 said, she's not endearing herself to future generations because she is so disgusting. I don't think younger women find what she is doing empowering or inspirational. Madonna is no longer cool. She is no longer fun.

by Anonymousreply 212June 26, 2021 2:51 AM

[quote] Whitney didn't retain dignity

I don't think that's fair. Whitney made attempts to get her life together. She did the I Look to You album, the tour (which was a mess but she tried her best) and the film Sparkle. I have a lot of respect for her because she tried.

by Anonymousreply 213June 26, 2021 2:54 AM

Madonna’s morph into Valerie Cherish surprised us all.

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by Anonymousreply 214June 26, 2021 2:54 AM

Any kid that has interest in Madonna will search her up on Google and her Twitter and IG links will pop up. As soon as they click on either, any interest they have in Madge would instantly be lost by the time they see a picture of her.

Evidence A:

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by Anonymousreply 215June 26, 2021 2:58 AM

Evidence B:

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by Anonymousreply 216June 26, 2021 2:59 AM

Wrong r201. You needed to get out more, I guess. Janet was done in the mainstream after the mid/late 90s.

by Anonymousreply 217June 26, 2021 3:05 AM

[quote]Again--the fact that she struggled to sell a good amount of digital singles until her death says otherwise.

Whitney's back catalogue has always sold. Nobody sells as much with their material after their main peak years.

by Anonymousreply 218June 26, 2021 3:06 AM

R217, that's not true. All For You--single and album--both hit number one. The single was number one for like 7 weeks. So not exactly done in the mainstream.

by Anonymousreply 219June 26, 2021 3:06 AM

AT LEAST WE NEVER DESTOROYED OURSELVES IN A BATHTUB (OR HAD KIDS TO FOLLOW SUIT).

by Anonymousreply 220June 26, 2021 3:07 AM

Janet's decline started years before the Super Bowl.

r219 some idiot no one has ever heard of can have a #1 song in the digital age. Trust me, mainstream audiences were over Janet by the 2000s.

by Anonymousreply 221June 26, 2021 3:08 AM

^ MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP LAUGHING WHILE WE TYPED THIS.

DESTROYED (NOT DESTOROYED LOL!)

by Anonymousreply 222June 26, 2021 3:08 AM

R221,I remember that time well, I was 13. All For You was in fact a huge hit. This was a few years before digital singles were huge (but people still downloaded illegally all the time).

by Anonymousreply 223June 26, 2021 3:13 AM

The only reason Madonna has been trending on Twitter lately is because the #FreeBritney mob is pissed at her for not speaking up so they bombard her social media feeds asking her to speak out on Britney.

by Anonymousreply 224June 26, 2021 3:14 AM

#FreeBritney mob is insane and childish. Madonna has absolutely nothing to do with Britney at all besides collaborating on that one song and kissing her at the VMAs. And if Madonna does speak out, it's not going to influence the court of law. The legal system does not work that way.

by Anonymousreply 225June 26, 2021 3:18 AM

Nobody with any taste has ever cared at all about Britney Spears.

by Anonymousreply 226June 26, 2021 3:26 AM

R226, 1000000%. And to think this moron is considered a "gay icon" by many gays under 40.

by Anonymousreply 227June 26, 2021 3:30 AM

I agree. Britney was a fun pop star but she was never on the level of Madonna and Janet (visual and sonic creativity) or Mariah or Whitney (pure talent) and she isn't on the level of Kylie Minogue, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé or even Rihanna and Ariana Grande. Katy Perry is Britney 2.0 (can't sing and a vessel for producers) but was sane enough to keep lasting longer. Even Gwen Stefani, Nelly Furtado, Carly Rae Jepsen and Dua Lipa took what Britney had and improved it in a single album. Some of Britney's best work on albums like In The Zone, Blackout, Circus and Femme Fatale were all the work of hot producers and she just came in and sang the songs given. I didn't mind Britney originally but just like crazy Janbot had people reevaluate Janet, the insane stream of Britney stans had me go back and reevaluate and Britney and her legacy doesn't hold up well. Hype backlash is a very real thing.

by Anonymousreply 228June 26, 2021 3:35 AM

Janet and Paula have been forgotten. Whitney’s a legend but also dead

by Anonymousreply 229June 26, 2021 3:36 AM

[Quote] I agree. Britney was a fun pop star but she was never on the level of Madonna and Janet (visual and sonic creativity) or Mariah or Whitney (pure talent) and she isn't on the level of Kylie Minogue…

I agree but Britney’s albums still sell loads even years after she recorded and released them.

by Anonymousreply 230June 26, 2021 3:37 AM

r227 I was in my early 20s when Britney hit the scene and my friends and I thought she was a manufactured no-talent. Even at our young ages, we realized she was basically Debbie Gibson/Tiffany for the new generation of teenagers and not for adults. I don't remember most gay guys in our age group really being into Britney Spears.

by Anonymousreply 231June 26, 2021 3:37 AM

Tiffany could sing and Debbie wrote her songs. They deserved careers as adult-oriented artists but there was a stronger separation between teen star and adult pop star back then

by Anonymousreply 232June 26, 2021 3:41 AM

R231, I was 12. Unfortunately, in my age group, there were definitely gay boys that loved her music and her image. I have always been kind of an older soul though. I HATED that teen pop sound. It sounded so cheap to me and it still does. Ditto with the boy band craze. Max Martin was maybe the worst thing to happen to pop music. After all, he was the one who launched Britney to the stratosphere. Damn him.

by Anonymousreply 233June 26, 2021 3:42 AM

And I forgot to say--many gay men my age now (30s) love her. And I don't fucking get it. And them claiming she's a "gay icon" is so infuriating. I think she was the first "gay" icon to be called that JUST because she was a female pop star. She started that trend and it continues today. If you are a female pop star, you are a de facto gay icon, even if you just sit on your ass all day and don't say one word in favor of gays.

by Anonymousreply 234June 26, 2021 3:44 AM

I think Britney would have gotten pass if she matured her sound like how Kylie Minogue and Janet Jackson did in the 90s. But she never grew as an artist nor took the reigns of her career. Blackout, her most "personal" album is still just a producer-driven album where she just talks the words over. I'm a millennial and would say in the pop landscape that Lady Gaga, Adele, Bruno Mars, Beyoncé and Usher definitely deserved all their fame and recognition despite the hate they get here.

by Anonymousreply 235June 26, 2021 3:46 AM

DL fave Joseph Gordon Levitt does Janet

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by Anonymousreply 236June 26, 2021 4:00 AM

Free Britney, PLEASE!!

I'm so sick of those damn Instagram videos of her twirling (badly) wearing the most hideous raccoon eye makeup.

by Anonymousreply 237June 26, 2021 4:03 AM

[quote]Max Martin was maybe the worst thing to happen to pop music.

Definitely!

by Anonymousreply 238June 26, 2021 4:11 AM

Max Martin is the best pop producer in history and has the most #1s on the Hot 100 than anyone else. He's a musical genius. He's extremely respected in the industry and a very nice and humble guy. And he just produced the biggest song of last year, Blinding Lights by The Weeknd. No other producer from his generation is still producing massive hit songs like he is.

by Anonymousreply 239June 26, 2021 5:46 AM

I think Max is talented and knows what's sells but popularity doesn't equal quality. He is far from the best producer in history.

by Anonymousreply 240June 26, 2021 5:48 AM

Max Martin ruined pop music.

by Anonymousreply 241June 26, 2021 5:59 AM

Whitney's voice was amazing and I needed to be reminded of it. She was not fake, she didn't have a falso valbratto, she had it all within and above her range. I miss it. Thanks for remembering that!

by Anonymousreply 242June 26, 2021 6:04 AM

Timbaland, Kanye, Bloodshy and Avant, Calvin Harris, Babyface, The Neptunes, Will.I.Am, Danja and Dr. Luke are all better producers than Max Martin.

by Anonymousreply 243June 26, 2021 6:06 AM

[quote] Max Martin is the best pop producer in history

Not even close. Max Martin is the reason that most music we hear sounds exactly the same

by Anonymousreply 244June 26, 2021 10:28 AM

The problem I have with Max Martin’s music is that it ALL. SOUNDS. THE. SAME. Literally. Take any BSB song and play it next to any Britney track from one of her first two albums and they are indistinguishable. Oops sounds like Lucky sounds like Larger Than Life sounds like As Long as You Love Me sounds like Hit Me Baby, etc. I think that’s why I’ve always preferred early Xtina music over early Britney. Genie in a Bottle is far superior to Hit Me Baby..., and Xtina’s entire first album is superior to Britney’s on a vocal and a production level.

by Anonymousreply 245June 26, 2021 12:31 PM

Max also produced The Sign and All That She Wants for Ace of Base. You can hear his signature sound heavily in those tracks too.

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by Anonymousreply 246June 26, 2021 12:33 PM

SAW (Stock Aitken Waterman) had a repetitive sound but they were more sonically creative than Max Martin and they were better songwriters. English isn't Max's first language but it doesn't excuse his rather lackluster songwriting.

by Anonymousreply 247June 26, 2021 12:55 PM

I could never stand Whitney's voice. She just sounded shrill and vacant to me. Paula demonstrably can't sing worth shit and Janet has nothing approaching Whitney's range and vocal power, but both those performers have discernible personalities, a sense of humor, something approaching interpretation of their material. Whitney just went out there and whispered and shrieked and looked really really cute and stayed really really skinny, and whoop de do. I'm not surprised to find out she was this terribly repressed soul because she brought nothing but the mechanics to her art.

by Anonymousreply 248June 26, 2021 1:20 PM

[quote] The problem I have with Max Martin’s music is that it ALL. SOUNDS. THE. SAME. Literally. Take any BSB song and play it next to any Britney track from one of her first two albums and they are indistinguishable. Oops sounds like Lucky sounds like Larger Than Life sounds like As Long as You Love Me sounds like Hit Me Baby, etc. I think that’s why I’ve always preferred early Xtina music over early Britney. Genie in a Bottle is far superior to Hit Me Baby..., and Xtina’s entire first album is superior to Britney’s on a vocal and a production level.

I agree and I would say both released their best work in the mid-2000s. In The Zone and Blackout for Britney and Back to the Basics for Christina. I think Christina's albums are cohesive too and she takes risks and has always had control over her sound. Britney at her core is a singles artists similar to Whitney Houston, Katy Perry and Rihanna.

by Anonymousreply 249June 26, 2021 3:53 PM

I am no music expert and my taste is always suspect, but is Whitney talking about a particular Paula Abdul song where she is off key or just in general. Maybe I don't know what off key means because I thought her voice suited the songs.

by Anonymousreply 250June 26, 2021 4:07 PM

R250, she's probably talking about all of her songs.

by Anonymousreply 251June 26, 2021 5:04 PM

The fact is- Janet hasn't been relevant in 20 years. Facts are facts and Jabba is allergic to them, just like soap.

by Anonymousreply 252June 26, 2021 5:12 PM

^Stay pressed, loon.

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by Anonymousreply 253June 26, 2021 5:22 PM

Muriel nuked this morning and now al the threads he started (he's now Troll 5868).

I apologize, Janbot, for accusing you of being .

by Anonymousreply 254June 26, 2021 5:24 PM

Excuse us, R252. Miss Janet is still very relevant. She is our celebrity spokeswoman and the face of our products.

by Anonymousreply 255June 26, 2021 5:27 PM

Mainstream America hasn't been checking for Janet Jackson in at least 20 years. She's been an urban niche artist for a long time. I don't think Janbot ever leaves his ghetto.

by Anonymousreply 256June 26, 2021 6:15 PM

Whitney had no soul and that's why her forays into R&B were so bad. She was ok as a gospel singer, but she couldn't ride a R&B beat to save her life. Her voice was too heavy and lumbering to do effective runs. Cousin Dionne was equally as soulless, and she couldn't sing gospel at all.

Whtiney's My Love is Your Love album is awful. Her voice is too harsh and raspy. Mariah, Beyonce, and even Ariana blow Whitney out of the water when it comes to R&B.

by Anonymousreply 257June 26, 2021 6:43 PM

[quote] Whtiney's My Love is Your Love album is awful.

Vehemently disagree here. It's her most consistent album.

[quote] Mariah, Beyonce, and even Ariana blow Whitney out of the water when it comes to R&B.

No. Just...no. Beyonce sounds like a foghorn compared to Whitney. Ariana is a middle schooler. Mariah did very well with R&B and I"d consider Emancipation of Mimi as good as My Love is Your Love for R&B.

by Anonymousreply 258June 26, 2021 6:48 PM

Madonna fans are losing grasp on reality. She has no influence over the new generatIon, and besides her cult, the older generations don’t give a shit either. Madonna is a joke in 2021, being culturally relevant in the 80s means nothing 40 years late.

by Anonymousreply 259June 26, 2021 7:05 PM

[quote] Similarly, Toni Braxton's huge success was from singing corny pop ballads and when she switched to a heavier and more sexual R&B sound in the 2000s, she stopped being as successful with mainstream white America.

Braxton's first album was an R&B album in the quiet storm sub-genre. Her biggest success was with her first two albums and the only pop ballad during that period was "Unbreak My Heart". Yeah that was a huge single but most of her success with the Toni Braxton and Secrets albums was due to her R&B output. In the mid 90s she even won the Grammy for Best R&B Female Vocal three times in four years.

Later in the decade she had her bankruptcy problems, her legal issues with LaFace Records and also a change in her image. On her first album she was marketed as a preacher's daughter who had to secretly listen to secular music behind her parents' back and didn't need to sell sex to be popular. When she released her second album she had started marketing herself as a sex kitten, had a nose job and a boob job, and appeared desperate to wear as few clothes as possible.

Her immature appearance on Oprah in 1997 didn't help her either. The decline in her popularity had more to do with her own failure to manage her career and her finances, and her inability to keep her fanbase who were initially attracted to the clean cut girl next door who sang sultry songs. It wasn't that "America abandoned her when she sang R&B". She basically remained stagnant and didn't show any growth as an artist.

by Anonymousreply 260June 26, 2021 7:18 PM

[quote] Cissy Houston's advice: Don't sell out,

This from a woman who took money to shriek in fabric softener conmercials?

by Anonymousreply 261June 26, 2021 9:30 PM

[quote] Madonna fans are losing grasp on reality. She has no influence over the new generatIon, and besides her cult, the older generations don’t give a shit either. Madonna is a joke in 2021, being culturally relevant in the 80s means nothing 40 years late.

This bore repeating.

by Anonymousreply 262June 26, 2021 9:33 PM

R262 Trust the DLers who are 30 and below. Madonna is mostly a joke now. Even young gays don't like her..

by Anonymousreply 263June 26, 2021 9:48 PM

^Oh, I agree.

by Anonymousreply 264June 27, 2021 12:08 AM

r263 nobody disagrees with that. Nobody has ever said younger people are into Madonna. Name one artist from the 80s that people in their 20s follow. Everybody, even the biggest stars, lose relevancy as time goes on and new generations emerge.

by Anonymousreply 265June 27, 2021 12:15 AM

Nobody in their 20s could possibly have been alive in the 1980s.

by Anonymousreply 266June 27, 2021 12:19 AM

[quote]Name one artist from the 80s that people in their 20s follow.

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by Anonymousreply 267June 27, 2021 12:29 AM

Nope, r267

by Anonymousreply 268June 27, 2021 12:31 AM

Nobody cares about Stevie's solo work at all. What people like her for is mainly Rumors and some of the other stuff Fleetwood Mac did afterwards. By the 80s, Stevie started soundling like a goat.

by Anonymousreply 269June 27, 2021 12:44 AM

[quote] Mariah, Beyonce, and even Ariana blow Whitney out of the water when it comes to R&B.

I disagree. Beyoncé's voice is too monotone and she lacks emotion. Ariana is good but she mumbles too much and her music is too childish. Mariah's hit or miss but she did bring out the emotion and soul on some of her albums. All of them focus too much on style over substance. All technicians. I think Whitney had more soul than people give her credit for. You need to watch her live performances to get the full effect. She brought it back to church.

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by Anonymousreply 270June 27, 2021 12:49 AM

Whitney was amazing live. Beyonce can't sing live to save her life.

by Anonymousreply 271June 27, 2021 12:50 AM

Whitney, George Michael, Boy George and Prince all sang their asses off live. Michael Jackson in comparison lip-synced a lot of his shows later in his career. Beyoncé and Mariah both lip-sync too. Nobody is surprised when Madonna, Janet, Britney or Rihanna lip-sync.

by Anonymousreply 272June 27, 2021 12:54 AM

Madonna does not lip-sync that much.

by Anonymousreply 273June 27, 2021 1:12 AM

[quote]Nobody cares about Stevie's solo work at all.

Speak for yourself. "Edge of Seventeen," "If Anyone Falls," "Stand Back," "Talk To Me" and "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" are classic, rockin' songs.

by Anonymousreply 274June 27, 2021 1:29 AM

[quote]Madonna does not lip-sync that much.

She should.

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by Anonymousreply 275June 27, 2021 1:30 AM

r275, she was fine up until a few years ago.

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by Anonymousreply 276June 27, 2021 1:45 AM

Y’all still at it?

by Anonymousreply 277June 27, 2021 1:46 AM

[quote] "Edge of Seventeen," "If Anyone Falls," "Stand Back," "Talk To Me" and "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" are classic, rockin' songs.

No.

by Anonymousreply 278June 27, 2021 2:10 AM

Let's not lose sight of the real point here- Janet is completely forgotten and everyone thinks Jabba smells like an ape.

by Anonymousreply 279June 27, 2021 2:39 AM

[quote]No.

Yes, you stupid millennial.

by Anonymousreply 280June 27, 2021 4:06 AM

Madonna really is pathetic. The fact that no one even knew about her pride “performance” kind of makes me feel sorry for her.

Kind of.

by Anonymousreply 281June 27, 2021 4:09 AM

Speaking of Janet and Stevie...

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by Anonymousreply 282June 27, 2021 4:10 AM

Janet's plastic surgery in that photo is terrifying. What a fucking hag.

by Anonymousreply 283June 27, 2021 4:35 AM

Compared to what? This travesty?

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by Anonymousreply 284June 27, 2021 4:39 AM

DAMN! Whitney’s gone. This always makes me fucking angry! Is it really too late to make a clone of her. I’m semi-serious here…just to hear that voice again.

by Anonymousreply 285June 27, 2021 5:34 AM

Bobbi Kristina was more talented than Janet.

by Anonymousreply 286June 27, 2021 6:13 AM

One observation I have is that a lot of gays in my age group (20s-early 30s) are die-hard fans of Mariah, Whitney, Kylie, even Janet -- but I don't really know anyone who cares that much about Madonna. Somehow she didn't cross over into the next generation.

by Anonymousreply 287June 27, 2021 6:19 AM

Sure, R287

by Anonymousreply 288June 27, 2021 6:20 AM

I mean, feel free to refute any of that, or just cast blanket skepticism R288

by Anonymousreply 289June 27, 2021 6:21 AM

Your three queeny friends I'm sure count for all the 20-30 something people.

by Anonymousreply 290June 27, 2021 7:15 AM

I don't know anyone in their 20s who is really into any of the above artists. And that's fine, it happens. Time moves on and younger generations have their own artists they listen to and follow.

by Anonymousreply 291June 27, 2021 7:52 AM

R165

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by Anonymousreply 292June 27, 2021 2:24 PM

Madonna was disgusting and a moron for saying that R292 but that's not enough evidence of child molestation. She said it was a teenager but didn't specify his age, just that he didn't have that much body hair. Plus she was in a different country, so age of consent could have different. But most importantly, she's also a liar and exaggerates everything about her life. So this whole incident in that book could have just been some story she made up to be shocking and edgy.

by Anonymousreply 293June 27, 2021 3:00 PM

R293 She admitted to have sex with a boy which according to her own words "had hardly any pubic hair". When Michael Jackson was accused, he didn't boast about his accusations trying to be edgy. So is R165 really right when they make the statement that male stars "get off much easier in comparison"?

by Anonymousreply 294June 27, 2021 3:31 PM

Was this Janet's most expensive video?

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by Anonymousreply 295June 27, 2021 3:37 PM

You may have a point, R294.

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by Anonymousreply 296June 27, 2021 4:48 PM

[quote] So this whole incident in that book could have just been some story she made up to be shocking and edgy.

Agree with this. Lots of stuff in the Sex book is Madonna trying to just be edgy (and falling flat on her face). Madonna did sleep with teenaged boys in NYC when she was starting to become famous but that's very different from sleeping with a pre-pubescent child. I don't approve of either act but back then, wasn't it considered "cool" for teenage guys to bang an older woman in her twenties?

by Anonymousreply 297June 27, 2021 6:50 PM

People tried to talk her out of doing the Sex book but she didn't listen. That was a big mistake.

by Anonymousreply 298June 27, 2021 6:58 PM

She should have married Gary Morton after Lucy died. He would have talked her out of it.

by Anonymousreply 299June 27, 2021 7:01 PM

[quote]Was this Janet's most expensive video?

No, SCREAM is the most expensive video of all time. Her video with Busta Rhymes is also one of the most expensive videos ever made.

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by Anonymousreply 300June 27, 2021 7:07 PM

I see 9 W&Ws for this thread, why is it being greyed out?

by Anonymousreply 301June 27, 2021 11:23 PM

Because Madge's mafia thugs leaned on Muriel to rub out the competition.

by Anonymousreply 302June 27, 2021 11:51 PM

R302, that doesn't make any sense. What's more likely is that Janbot downvoted several times.

by Anonymousreply 303June 28, 2021 12:18 AM

R297 Madonna being an adult sleeping with teen boys is borderline predatory but it's not the same type of grooming and molestation like Jackson was doing. What she did was just statutory rape. I really doubt those 16 to 18 year old boys were traumatized by sleeping a then-hot 20-something woman like Madonna. And yes, I would say the same about a good-looking 20 something male sleeping with girls in their late teens. It's not ethical but it's not as harmful as actually taking little kids to your house and grooming them for years to be "playmates" like Jackson was doing.

by Anonymousreply 304June 28, 2021 1:09 AM

R304, agree with you 100%. I see people all the time--but especially conservatives--try and argue that an adult having sex with a teen is pedophilia. As sketchy as it is, no, it's not. What Michael Jackson did was significantly worse on so many levels than what Madonna did.

by Anonymousreply 305June 28, 2021 1:25 AM

Madonna is actually guilty of what MJ was actually accused of. I don't believe Michael raped those boys if he needed Mark Lester to father his own children.

by Anonymousreply 306June 28, 2021 1:26 AM

[quote] Madonna is actually guilty of what MJ was actually accused of.

Jesus fucking Christ, NO SHE WAS NOT. And please, spare us all the fucking "poor poor MJ, he was so abused and innocent" BS. It's really pathetic and unbelievable at this point. Michael Jackson was never accused of having sex with teens or even pre teens. He was accused of having sex with CHILDREN.

by Anonymousreply 307June 28, 2021 1:28 AM

And acquitted.

by Anonymousreply 308June 28, 2021 1:33 AM

[quote]Madonna is actually guilty of what MJ was actually accused of.

Teenage boys aren't preteen boys. They are sexually matured and capable of having sex. The age of consent can range from 13 to 18 depending on the state or country. She may have committed statutory rape but it wasn't molestation or sexual abuse. She wasn't grooming kids like MJ was doing. I would say Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis were more predatory because they had child brides who were too young to understand being married. Madonna just hooked up with some horny teenage boys for casual sex because she's just a slut. She's not a monster.

[quote] I don't believe Michael raped those boys if he needed Mark Lester to father his own children.

He needed Lester because he didn't want to have black children. HE wanted white kids with blonde hair and blue eyes because he was a self-hating black man. And if Michael was impotent, he could still molest kids in different ways. Any type of inappropriate sexualized touching is molestation.

by Anonymousreply 309June 28, 2021 1:33 AM

[quote]He was accused

ACCUSED is the operative word here, moron. It was never proven.

by Anonymousreply 310June 28, 2021 1:36 AM

You're defending Madonna because you want to fuck high schoolers, R309, so you project your own sickness onto someone who was very likely asexual.

by Anonymousreply 311June 28, 2021 1:36 AM

R311, you want to groom and fuck children just like your idol so you have no room to judge anyone.

by Anonymousreply 312June 28, 2021 1:41 AM

R311 I have no shame acknowledging someone in their teens is attractive. I wouldn't sleep with them though for moral reasons because they aren't emotionally mature. But yes, generally speaking, many people are attracted to other people who are young and sexually matured for evolutionary purposes.

[quote] so you project your own sickness onto someone who was very likely asexual.

You think a grown ass man taking little boys to his house, being playmates with them and sharing his bed with them is normal? He overstepped all boundaries and he discarded these kids after they aged out. Even if he didn't touch them, he still used them for his own selfish needs. He needed therapy, not other hanging out with other people's kids. Also, he paid off all those accusers for years on end.

by Anonymousreply 313June 28, 2021 1:43 AM

What 1990 clip is it? I’m trying it on YouTube?

TIA!

by Anonymousreply 314June 28, 2021 4:19 AM

Here, Janbot's sockpuppets will have it removed soon:

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by Anonymousreply 315June 28, 2021 6:12 AM

Jabba doesn't have any sock puppets. No one can stand Jabba but Jabba.

by Anonymousreply 316June 28, 2021 6:13 AM

Thanks r315

by Anonymousreply 317June 28, 2021 6:14 AM

That wasn’t so bad. Good grief. Janet has talent, but she’s not famous because of her voice, but her music videos and her songs were well-written (Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis) and Michael.she also worked on Off The Wall. Paula for crying out loud is NOT a singer either. Her claim to fame was as a dance choreographer.

by Anonymousreply 318June 28, 2021 6:22 AM

You might not like it, but Gaga, Beyonce and Britney are their generation's Madonna, Whitney and Janet,

by Anonymousreply 319June 28, 2021 7:08 AM

That was for R174

by Anonymousreply 320June 28, 2021 7:08 AM

R304 In the comment section of this video are men saying they didn't enjoy having been raped by adult women when they were teen boys. You also don't know if the boys Madonna talks about are actually 16-18. Maybe they were younger and I wouldn't be surprised by that after reading how Madonna describes the lack of pubic hair on young boys in her book.

R305 Do you support Epstein too? Nasty.

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by Anonymousreply 321June 28, 2021 2:22 PM

Is it true that Paula Abdulla sings off-key?

by Anonymousreply 322June 28, 2021 2:26 PM

[quote] Is it true that Paula Abdulla sings off-key?

She sounds off-key but her backup singers and the studio production masked her flaws. It helps she was doing dance music too. Before the days of autotune, it was much harder to hide vocal imperfections. I wonder how Jennifer Lopez, Katy Perry and Britney would have fared before autotune

by Anonymousreply 323June 28, 2021 3:42 PM

Mariah destroyed them all in 2001!

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by Anonymousreply 324June 28, 2021 3:43 PM
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by Anonymousreply 325June 28, 2021 3:45 PM

A lot of teen pop stars from the 50s, 60s and 70s also couldn't sing and often got the recording contract from their popularity on TV and teen magazine pin-ups. DL fav Leif Garrett is a great example. He lipped all his shows except for this one where the track didn't play and he had to sing it live.

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by Anonymousreply 326June 28, 2021 3:50 PM

J. Lo's vocals are worse than Brit's.

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by Anonymousreply 327June 28, 2021 3:52 PM

[quote] but her music videos and her songs were well-written (Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis) and Michael.she also worked on Off The Wall.

This is pure ignorance. Janet writes or co-writes the majority of her songs, and Michael never wrote one song for her. And she didn’t work on OTW, she worked on Thriller. She was one of the “Na Na Na” girls on PYT.

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by Anonymousreply 328June 28, 2021 5:30 PM

[quote] This is pure ignorance. Janet changes one word and insists on credit for the majority of her songs

Fixed that for you, Jabba.

by Anonymousreply 329June 28, 2021 5:39 PM

^PRESSED.

by Anonymousreply 330June 28, 2021 8:00 PM

Looking like Baby Jane

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by Anonymousreply 331June 28, 2021 9:15 PM

R326: Dreadful. This is the best version of that song:

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by Anonymousreply 332June 28, 2021 9:53 PM

[R165] stealth Qanon loon.

by Anonymousreply 333June 28, 2021 11:28 PM

R338. Excuse me, but Janet actually blew into empty Coca Cola bottles to make that sound in the single, Off The Wall. She didn’t write the song, but she was an instrument back-up. This unique, singular sound effect is what makes this one song completely original. So go fuck yourself, dimwit!

by Anonymousreply 334June 30, 2021 2:19 PM

^^^Oopsie…meant the song Don’t Stop ‘til You Get Enough. Janet did the sound of tapping on empty Coke bottles. The effect does enhance the overall effect of this song.

by Anonymousreply 335June 30, 2021 2:33 PM

You are correct. Janet and Randy can actually be heard in the background bickering in this demo.

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by Anonymousreply 336June 30, 2021 3:27 PM

[quote] So go fuck yourself, dimwit!

You go fuck yourself! She might have worked on the DSTYGE demo, but she can actually be heard on PYT!!

by Anonymousreply 337June 30, 2021 3:28 PM

You just proved my point, fuckwit!^^^

by Anonymousreply 338July 1, 2021 2:06 PM

^^^^

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by Anonymousreply 339July 1, 2021 5:42 PM

R339, Michael looks more feminine than Janet in that picture. That's messed up.

by Anonymousreply 340July 1, 2021 10:16 PM

You know what else was messed up about Michael Jackson? He fucked little boys.

by Anonymousreply 341July 1, 2021 10:25 PM

No he didn't. He was accused of fucking little boys by star-struck, grifting parents. It was never proven in court. If you believe that sham one-sided documentary by those two liars then I've got a jar full of wooden nickels to sell you.

by Anonymousreply 342July 1, 2021 10:27 PM

Madonna, Janet and Whitney are all have more masculine energy than Michael.

by Anonymousreply 343July 1, 2021 10:30 PM

R342 OK but why did he request little boys to sleep over his house? The parents were grifters and pimped out their kids to MJ for money.

by Anonymousreply 344July 1, 2021 10:31 PM

r342 he fucked little boys.

by Anonymousreply 345July 1, 2021 10:32 PM

R341, you've clearly mistaken this for a Qanon board. Blocked.

by Anonymousreply 346July 1, 2021 10:42 PM

When you're found innocent in court it does not mean you didn't do anything wrong. It means there isn't strong enough evidence to remove reasonable doubt. MJ paid off families. I'm confused by why his defenders don't think it's odd how a grown man was so attached to little boys and wanted them to have them spend the night in his room. And why did he only spend time with specific type of boys of a certain age range.

by Anonymousreply 347July 1, 2021 10:46 PM

R347, I read a post by some deluded fan in India on quora claiming that Michael Jackson sleeping with little boys in bed was normal because in India, people sleep in the same beds as their children all the time. That person was so deluded. In South Asia, people do not let STRANGERS sleep with their children in bed. What the fuck? These people have so many delusions that I wonder if the "acceptance" stage will ever happen.

by Anonymousreply 348July 1, 2021 11:03 PM

Michael was a pedo and Janet enabled him.

Cancel them both, and then cancel Jabba's fat gorilla ass.

by Anonymousreply 349July 1, 2021 11:06 PM

^Stay pressed, girl. It's the ONLY thing you're good at.

by Anonymousreply 350July 1, 2021 11:10 PM

Michael Jackson was a textbook pedophile.

by Anonymousreply 351July 1, 2021 11:15 PM

[quote] Stay pressed, girl. It's the ONLY thing you're good at.

Not true. I'm excellent at pointing out all the times you're wrong.

by Anonymousreply 352July 1, 2021 11:18 PM

It's pretty much universally accepted that MJ was a kiddie diddler, except among some black people.

by Anonymousreply 353July 1, 2021 11:19 PM

A lot of people share beds with their siblings or even with their parents when they're children. But no normal grown adult wouldn't want to share a bed with someone else's child. He crossed boundaries with that and his close relationships with those kids was inappropriate. Grown adults cannot be best friends with young kids, they can be mentors or authority figures. If Michael wasn't Michael and was any other middle-aged man in the local neighborhood asking parents to send their kids over for a slumber party. You would know how that would have went. As for the whole "childlike" personality, many pedophiles do in fact behave very childish and are emotionally stunted. That's why they don't understand why their actions are harmful.

by Anonymousreply 354July 1, 2021 11:26 PM

I've also read comments from MJ defenders claiming there was no way he could be a pedophile since he donated so much money to kids and cared a lot about them 🤣🤣🤣🤣

by Anonymousreply 355July 1, 2021 11:28 PM

Madonna and Michael Jackson pulled that Oscar stunt and then you never saw them together again. The story goes that Madonna was put off by the young boys who were always around him. I'm sure there must've been others back in those days who wondered "what the hell is going on?" There had to be people in the Industry talking and gossiping about it in private.

Amazing how clueless they public was back then, I don't think a celebrity could ever get away with having children around him all the time like MJ did, because people are much more aware of things like this nowadays.

by Anonymousreply 356July 1, 2021 11:30 PM

R356, what I read was different. Madonna actually advised Michael to his face not to do any music with Janet because it was beneath him and it wouldn't be on his level. Can you imagine the balls on that woman to tell him that to his face?! Anyways, that really pissed Michael off and I think that's what he was referring to on those audio tapes that were released. He called her a "mean lady". I'm sure Madonna isn't pleasant much of the time but I think raping children is a bit meaner than anything Madonna did.

by Anonymousreply 357July 1, 2021 11:34 PM

It's funny because Michael ended up doing music with Janet and even using her producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis for "Scream". I don't think he expected Janet's music career to be as big as it was in the 90s, he probably thought Janet would go the way of Bobby, Paula and the others doing new jack swing and freestyle. Madonna probably thought the same thing but when she got hit by the Sex book controversy, it knocked her down a few pegs. Michael's music never evolved after Thriller. Bad was his last good album and once he dropped Quincy and released Dangerous, his sound started becoming outdated. Madonna and Janet evolved their sounds and were smart enough to adapt to new styles.

by Anonymousreply 358July 1, 2021 11:38 PM

R358, I completely agree. Janet and Madonna both pushed pop music into new and unexplored territory. Michael? No. By Invincible, he sounded like a Toni Braxton going through menopause.

by Anonymousreply 359July 1, 2021 11:40 PM

Madonna ended up doing music with Justin Timberlake and Nicki Minaj. So she didn't even follow the advice she gave MJ back in the 90s.

by Anonymousreply 360July 1, 2021 11:44 PM

R360, true. Apparently, Madonna apologized to Janet at Michael's memorial.

by Anonymousreply 361July 1, 2021 11:45 PM

Madonna defended Janet after the Super Bowl incident in 2004. She understood what it was like being attacked by conservatives for her whole career.

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by Anonymousreply 362July 1, 2021 11:49 PM
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