The DL Star Trek Thread

The first season was such a let down and this looks like more of the same dark BS. I love Patrick Stewart and the Next Generation but this series feels like it should never have been made.

[quote] this series feels like it should never have been made.

They made it so.

Maybe Picard can redeem itself. I always hope for the best from a new Star Trek series. So far, Lower Decks and Prodigy aren't bad. Discovery has moments, but oh my, Michael Sue gets tiresome.

The new trailer that came out on Friday looks promising, even though the travelling back in time to save the future has been done to death on Star Trek.

I'm hopeful this season will be better. They have a new showrunner who has said the tone of this season will be more optimistic.

[quote]I don't know how they'll handwave Q being older,

I'm sure they'll just play it off as Q mimicking/mocking Picard's own aging.

"I don't know how they'll handwave Q being older"

And on tonight's episode of Picard the role of Q will be played by Catherine Zeta-Jones!

I hope season 2 explains why Guinan weighs four hundred pounds and can only get around with the use of a space wheelchair.

I agree both De Lancie and Ryan look great, although Q was by far my least favorite recurring character on ST: TNG. I even preferring the rogue archaeologist to him... and Lwaxana was usually a delight.

I hope this season doesn't make every planet look like Northern California and give every character except for Picard an excuse for abusing drugs or drink like last season. I thought Michael Chabon and his creepy wife wrote too much of themselves into the show last season, which was disappointing.

[quote]I hope season 2 explains why Guinan weighs four hundred pounds and can only get around with the use of a space wheelchair.

I don't know if they've given her digital lipo, but they appear to have given her a digital facelift.

Guinan's race were supposed to age very, very slowly (even slower than Vulcans), so they had to use CGI to make her look younger.

I have high hopes for Picard S2 and enjoyed S1. Lower Decks is great and has so many possibilities (imagine an episode where they visit a planet that makes them real people instead of animated!), I'm withholding commentary until I have time to watch more of Prodigy, but Discovery is a mess that is trying too hard.

[quote] I thought Michael Chabon and his creepy wife wrote too much of themselves into the show last season, which was disappointing.

I thought that Chabon was ousted fairly early although he retained credits for it. He's no longer the showrunner and is taking an EP credit.

Lower Decks (and even Prodigy) are far superior to Disco and Lower Decks was much better than the first season of Picard. LD does a much better job of character development although it leans very heavily on inside jokes, so I can see where it couldn't be easily replicated.

[Quote] I hope season 2 explains why Guinan weighs four hundred pounds and can only get around with the use of a space wheelchair.

R7 🤣🤣🤣 I came here to say this, though not as hilariously as you did

I watch the star trek channel on Pluto tv.

I'd like to see svelte Bill Shatner slip into one of those skin tight onesie outfits. They would show off his big chest and biceps beautifully.

[quote]I'd like to see svelte Bill Shatner slip into one of those skin tight onesie outfits.

Yeah, I'll admit that ToS Capt. Kirk was a little hottie back then, and they weren't shy about him going shirtless.

[quote] Guinan's race were supposed to age very, very slowly (even slower than Vulcans), so they had to use CGI to make her look younger.

CGI where?

I thought Picard S1 was very good in some parts (his back story in France with his alien aides, and the closer scene with Data at the very end), and also some really lousy stuff (Icheb's demise, the revenge of the androids with a looming war...). But overall S1 was much better written than anything that Discovery has delivered. (In terms of writing Discovery really has lowered its standard to interns' workshop.)

What I want to have resolved in Picard S2: Why does everybody in the Soong family -for centuries - human or android look the same? What genetic defect causes all Soong men to look like Brent Spiner?

I enjoyed Picard but like the Abrams star trek films...its not star trek. Not the star trek I know and love.

Disco is a disappointment because I looked forward to a series set in the time period just before the original series. But they noped the hell out of the hassle of dealing with star trek canon and origin stuff with the whole time travel crap. Like it couldn't be more obvious they just wanted to get away. I lost interest 2 or 3 episodes into the 2nd season.

I enjoyed lower decks likely because I don't hold it to my olden standards of star trek.

Picard S1 was fine, but not great.

Disco S2 was the best season and was not as good as Picard S1, but is the next best.

However, I am utterly dumbfounded by the incessant use of Brent Spiner. He was fine as Data on TNG. But, they keep bringing him back over and over. He's just not that great an actor, nor do I really care all that much about Soong or Data. I simply don't understand why they keep using him.

Now, as for a random character I'd love to see again - Ensign Ro (Michelle Forbes). Great actress and interesting character. I'd love to see her going toe-to-toe with Seven in a badass moment.

Due to the nature of streaming series, all the episodes revolve around one major storyline. And of course that story has to important, like saving the universe important. As a star trek next generation fan, I miss the episodic model where there was variation in the vibe. Not every story was about saving all beings in the universe. There was some funny and more lighthearted fare. Picard was engaging enough but it never reached the heights of the best next generation episodes.

I rewatched all of TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT during the corona pandemic. I also watched half of S1 of Discovery (that I didn't finish it is telling) and Picard S1 (so disappointed).

Even when using the same characters, the new stuff does not feel like Star Trek at all. Not only is it overly focused on effects and action in a weird way, from what I've seen the stories seem like betrayals of the optimistic spirit that has marked ST for me. Also, the optics are just so off to me. Everything looks like the dreadful JJ Abrams remakes...

I would LOVE to have another episodic ensemble story in the vein of TNG, with characters who have positive qualities without being made infallible and with a look and feel that stays true to 80s and 90s Trek.

R22, I would love an old school series set in the federation academy. Come on, tons of stories there set in school setting.

R23, this would be awesome!

You know, just give us non-epic, normal Starfleet stories again. I want to see characters with principles, values and grit who, when confronted with challenges, stick to these principles, have hope and survive/thrive. I want a series that argues for strength in diversity, without falling into the trap of identity politics. I want stories where peaceful solutions, reconciliation, diplomacy, and scientific ingenuity prevail.

Just give us traditional Star Trek again, dammit!

[quote] I would LOVE to have another episodic ensemble story in the vein of TNG, with characters who have positive qualities without being made infallible and with a look and feel that stays true to 80s and 90s Trek.

I think Strange New Worlds might be what you are looking for.

I agree r21. I would like to see more stand-alone episodes.

I'm also looking forward to Strange New Worlds. It seems like it was announced forever ago, and we're still waiting.

R25, SNW is my last hope for a real Star Trek series.

What's with the revisionist redesign, though? Remember the time when they tried to accomodate the Original Series look (in DS9 or ENT)?

I don't know, I'll give it a chance, but I don't have high hopes.

They're really pulling out all the stops... Q, the Borg Queen, and now Guinan...

Sometimes pulling in so many returning characters makes me worry that it's meant to distract from a lack of plot or to hide other flaws. That said, the season one episode with Riker and Troi completely won me over--at least for those 45 minutes. It was so wonderful to see these characters again, characters who truly love and care about each other.

Somehow the writers missed how that was the most important thing in Star Trek. Instead they gave us mindless action, confusing development, subplots that went nowhere, significant pacing issues, and endless re-stacking of exposition we'd already had.

I'm a lifelong Trek fan and will no doubt watch this new season. But will it be good enough to make me ever want to watch it a second time? Based on the first season, I'm not sure it will be.

And yeah, enough with the time travel back to contemporary America. For fuck's sake, can't you come up with anything original anymore?

I also don't like the special effects-laden, action-laden emphasis on all of the current Trek incarnations. That's not what Star Trek is supposed to be about. It's like they're trying too hard to be Star Wars.

Don't get me wrong, Star Wars is great and I'm also a fan of that, but Star Trek should be different. Special effects and action scenes have always been a part of Trek, of course, but it was never supposed to be the focus of Trek. The current movies/series have been a bit heavy-handed with it.

R12 No, Chabon was the showrunner for all of season one. Just before the season finished airing, however, it was announced that Chabon was stepping down as showrunner after being approached by CBS to adapt his novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay into a TV show. Terry Matalas was brought in to take over as a showrunner for seasons 2 and 3. Matalas is a lifelong TNG fan and was a writer for the final two seasons of Enterprise. Chabon stayed on as an EP for season 2 but I don't think he's at all involved in season 3.

R20 I agree with you about Brent Spiner. I thought the Data story line was okay but the new Soong stuff is annoying. Frankly, if they want to use TNG legacy actors/characters to bring in fans, there several others they could use. Like where the hell is Beverly?

Season one of Picard was marred by being so dark and pessimistic. Still can't forget the death of Hugh, especially so violently. And as others have said, the entire arc had to be so epic and grandiose that it was too over the top. As for season two... time travel to change the course of history. Again. Next Generation did it exceptionally in the series finale and I think many will judge the entirety of the new season by that unless there s a new, surprising twist to it.

Still holding onto hopes for Discovery or at least continuing to watch. The DMA threat has me interested especially knowing it may be from outside of the known galaxy. However, like the new season of Picard, the writers better have some exciting episodes to finish the season or viewers may turn off for good.

R32 Gates McFadden has said that back when the first season was airing, Picard producers did contact her (and LeVar Burton too apparently) about appearing on the show but this was when Chabon was still in charge. Then covid happened and Chabon wasn't the showrunner anymore and she basically has heard nothing. When she was promoting her new podcast, she actually hinted that it might be Patrick Stewart who doesn't want Beverly to appear. But recently, she seems to be hinting that maybe she will be back as it's sounding like there will probably be a 4th season.

Picard has been officially renewed for a third season, but I question whether a fourth season is likely.

Hmmm.

There is an interview with Goldman (the EP)in the Feb issue of SFX magazine which heavily implies the show is ending after the third season.

They state that the series is dealing with "the last chapter" of Picard's life and wrapping up his story.

That was always the stated plan.

I'm fine with a scheduled ending. Stewart is not getting any younger. I hope they use the remaining air time wisely. Having a limited number of episodes may be helpful to focus the narrative. I just really hope that it ends on an unambiguously, not even bitter-sweet optimistic note.

Patrick Stewart is 82. It's amazing he committed to just one season at his age.

Why would Stewart balk at McFadden appearing in Picard? I thought the main cast members were all super close?

Will those bitchy Romulans that live with Picard be back for Season 2?

I hope so. I loved those two in season 1.

Was the race the Vulcans and Romulans evolved from ever named?

^ The Cretans

[quote]Will those bitchy Romulans that live with Picard be back for Season 2?

Laris has been in both trailers. I don't think we've seen Zhaban.

Did they ever explain how they became separate races?

Vulcans rejected emotion for logic while the Romulans embraced it so they left and settled on Romulus.

It's nice that it's explained as stemming more from a diverging of philosophies than races. Do Romulans possess any telepathic abilities?

I don't think we've seen that from any Vulcan-descended Romulans, though the Remans were telepathic in that horrible 10th Star Trek movie. Romulans also seem to lack the enhanced strength and endurance that living on a high-gravity arid world gave the Vulcans.

R36 In the new SFX article Akiva Goldsmith states "who knows what the future might hold" when asked if there will be more ST: Picard after season 3. The confusion is coming from a quote from Stewart when he's talking about finishing filming the third season and he said "all my focus is wrapping up the series." Trek Central assumed Stewart meant series as in the show, but SFX (a British publication) has confirmed Stewart was using the British term for a single season which is "series." Dave Blass (a production designer on Picard) implied on Twitter today that the show being finished after season 3 was basically news to him. So, it seems like season 3 may not be the final season. Also LeVar Burton seemed to confirm last week in an interview with Entertainment Tonight that he was in talks to appear on Picard which would suggest there is a season 4 in the works because the final episode of season 3 is filming right now.

R40 McFadden stated in an interview a few months ago that while she and Patrick had great chemistry, he was somewhat reticent at the idea of Picard/Crusher becoming an item. Basically he (and the producers) wanted Picard to be available for romances particularly in the films. Also it appears Picard is going to have something going on with Laris this season based on the quick flash of them appearing to be about to kiss in the trailer.

Jeri Ryan hasn't aged in 20 years! She must have the best surgeon in Hollywood.

TV has become quite loose with stories and logic. If Stewart isn't into it anymore, they may just have him regenerate into a new body again. The possibilities are endless really.

So, I guess the Starfleet Academy show is finally coming. Not sure, I'm looking forward to it. I was always dreading a Star Trek version of Beverly Hills 90210. When I look around TV shows, I always thought that better acting comes from seasoned, experienced actors. But I acknowledge I could be biased, and as long as the show is well done, I should be looking forward to it. And fans really have asked for this for decades, so it makes sense that they finally give this a shot.

ACADEMY should’ve been done before ENTERPRISE and definitely before DISCOVERY.

Academy will turn out to be some angsty teen drama.

It's essentially either going to be Beverly Hills, Sector 001.

It looks like there are currently three shows in the works: Section 31 (it was confirmed today that it's still in pre-production and going forward), Academy show, and another show (likely a Picard spin-off).

Are you counting Strange New Worlds in that, R55?

R56 No SNW is one of the shows currently in active production: Disco, Pic, LD, Pro, Snw. Then there are confirmed three shows in the development: section 31, Academy, and another unknown one that was just teased today. Plus there are also two star trek movies in the works as well.

The third show in development is probably CSI: Qo'noS or a mockumentary workplace sitcom in Starfleet headquarter.

Be one with the horse.

I'm looking forward to Strange New Worlds and Ethan Peck's hot ass.

I find the cleaned up version of Anson Mount extremely handsome.

He's no Jeffrey Hunter. But, he looks much better than he did when he did the mutant show.

R61 I think most of us here, would happily allow, Anson, to Mount us.

But are there Jews in space?

[quote]But are there Jews in space?

Trek has usually been rather silent on Earth religions.

While various religions and belief systems are clearly practiced by many groups - the Prophets on Bajor - there are few mentions of the Abrahamic religions in space.

But is there rape-rape in space?

R64 It's been implied in Trek shows (particularly in the TNG era) that religion has gone the way of the dinosaur on Earth.

I remember Uhura making an oblique reference to Christianity in TOS.

The interrupted TOS wedding in "Balance of Terror" was held in a chapel, and, later, it's also where the bride who lost her fiance was grieving.

She also genuflects to the altar during the wedding, which at least strongly suggests she's Catholic.

In "Dagger of the Mind" Kirk mentions meeting the Babe of the Week at the Enterprise's Christmas party, as well.

TOS did have a number of religious references however, Gene Roddenberry became a fervent atheist by the 70s and in TNG/DS9/VOY it was frequently implied humans no longer practice any organized religion. Indeed, Berman upheld that, which is why when religion was discussed in the TNG-era it was always aliens who had a religion (e.g. the Bajorans) and not humanity.

[quote]Gene Roddenberry became a fervent atheist by the 70s and in TNG/DS9/VOY it was frequently implied humans no longer practice any organized religion

There is a (very good) DS9 episode called "The Ship" where the crew is trying to capture the wreckage of a Jem'Hadar ship and a Jem'Hadar squad and their Vorta who are trying to get it back. It turns out what they were really after was a Founder that was onboard and injured, and after it ends up dying, the Vorta--who has basically failed God--asks Sisko if he has any gods, and he answers "There are things I believe in."

The textual reading calls it as things like Starfleet and concepts like duty, but the line has always intrigued me. I've always thought it's really short-sighted and arrogant to think that even in an enlightened, egalitarian era, at least the cultural aspects of religion wouldn't have endured. And I say that as a fairly areligious person.

I always like that the Expanded Universe stuff was a little looser with the rules. Starfleet chaplains would pop up here and there. In the outstanding Vanguard series, a memorial service for a lost ship is lead by a priest, a Protestant minister, a rabbi, an imam, and a few clerics from alien species.

Roddenberry said himself in the early years of TNG that humanity no longer believed in God and religion was extinct on Earth.

R71 DS9 is the most religious of the Trek spin-offs: the Bajorian religion, the fact that Sikso was part Prophet. The Sisko line in "The Ship" is probably the nearest the 90s era Trek got to acknowledging humans still had some kind of spirituality. Also in "Far Beyond the Stars" Sisko's father quotes from the Bible in the final scene of the episode (not during the 1950s stuff). However, on TNG Picard in episodes like "Who Watches the Watchers" calls the belief in a supernatural deity a ridiculous superstition and in Voyager in "Scorpion Part 1" Janeway laughs at DaVinci suggestion she come with him to see some monks to pray for an answer.

Does Guinan give her opinion on Jews and the Holocaust to Picard in Season 2?

I just looked at the trailer for the new Orville season, and I thought that it looks more like Star Trek than current Star Trek. I think they really try to fill the niche that Star Trek has vacated. I mean Orville always tried to be like TNG, but they seem to really embrace the succession of that concept.

I hated the Orville. I hate Lower Decks too. The humour just does not translate for me.

For it all its humor, Lower Decks has developed quite an emotional arc as well. The most recent season finale, which paid off both character and plot arcs that had been building all season, was outstanding.

It reminds me a lot of Legends of Tomorrow, about a crew of weirdos who go around and get the job done by screwing everything up.

Cerritos Strong!

[quote] as for a random character I'd love to see again - Ensign Ro (Michelle Forbes). Great actress and interesting character.

not my fanfilm brain momentarily losing it before realising who you actually meant😔

[quote]I remember Uhura making an oblique reference to Christianity in TOS.[/quote]

There was the episode which took place on a planet influenced by ancient Rome with some type of rebellion from a sect of people, called the Followers of the Sun or something. At the end of the episode, Uhura says something like "They weren't followers of the sun, but the Son. The Son of God - Jesus Christ".

[quote]There was the episode which took place on a planet influenced by ancient Rome with some type of rebellion from a sect of people, called the Followers of the Sun or something. At the end of the episode, Uhura says something like "They weren't followers of the sun, but the Son. The Son of God - Jesus Christ".

R67 and R78, that was '𝐁𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐂𝐢𝐫𝐜𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐬' S2E14. The lines ran like this:

KIRK: Gentlemen.

MCCOY: Captain, I see on your report Flavius was killed. I am sorry. I liked that huge sun worshiper.

SPOCK: I wish we could have examined that belief of his more closely. It seems illogical for a sun worshiper to develop a philosophy of total brotherhood. Sun worship is usually a primitive superstition religion.

UHURA: I'm afraid you have it all wrong, Mister Spock, all of you. I've been monitoring some of their old-style radio waves, the empire spokesman trying to ridicule their religion. But he couldn't. Don't you understand? It's not the sun up in the sky. It's the Son of God.

KIRK: Caesar and Christ. They had them both. And the word is spreading only now.

MCCOY: A philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.

SPOCK: It will replace their imperial Rome, but it will happen in their twentieth century.

KIRK: Wouldn't it be something to watch, to be a part of? To see it happen, all over again? Mister Chekov, take us out of orbit. Ahead warp factor one.

CHEKOV: Aye, sir.

I've always detested that episode. "To see it happen, all over again" is particularly nauseating.

There was often a struggle between a given episode writer, Roddenberry, and his superiors at NBC, over religious content. A clash occurred over a line in 𝐖𝐡𝐨 𝐌𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐧𝐬 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐝𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐢𝐬?, where Kirk states, "Mankind has no need for gods"; S&P forced the insertion of a line to clarify, "We find the 𝑂𝑛𝑒 quite adequate."

This site has a list of instances in 'Trek' which have a bearing on religion:

(They don't seem to mention Mr Spock's statement from '𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐆𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐥𝐞𝐨 𝐒𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧', "I, for one, do not believe in angels.")

[quote]But are there Jews in space?

Lt. Worf's adopted parents, Sergey and Helena Rozhenko, are depicted as Jews, although no episode has explicitly named them as such.

I'm picturing a Klingon bar mitzvah, and loving it.

Well, look no further, VOTN. Enjoy!

VOTN - Geez, I haven't seen you in forever it seems like.

Have you been around, and I just haven't been paying attention?

I miss some of the names from way back when - like whatever happened to Shinjuku Baby?

Here and there. I don't sign in consistently.

A podcast that I listen to that's going through the entirety of Star Trek in order, and has just now reached TNG S2 and they released an episode about "Where Silence Has Lease" and Picard talks about the concept of death. He says that while there are some people who think it's just about blinking out of existence, others believe that you remain yourself and go to Paradise. Certainly indicates that there are still some people who believe in an afterlife. And Picard himself seems to indicate that he believes in something beyond death, although it's also not a Christian afterlife.

Thought it was interesting in light of the discussion.

[quote]Hidden Frontier

Man, I haven't thought about Hidden Frontier in forever.

[quote]He's no Jeffrey Hunter

In the Talos IV episode of Disco, when they used clips from The Cage, I was shocked by how strong the resemblance is. It's one of the best bits of recasting I think I've ever seen.

If you don't think Anson Mount is attractive, there is something wrong with you.

I'm also very happy to see TheVoiceoftheNight back in the Trek threads!

Which podcast are you listening to? I've enjoyed "Star Trek The Next Conversation" despite the hour of non-episode specific ramblings they always start with, haha

The one I listen to is called "All Our Yesterdays," but it's a Patreon bonus podcast for a film-review one I listen to called Critically Acclaimed.

I'm a big fan of a Trek youtube channel called Trek Culture. Eckharts Ladder is good too.

I used to like Lore Reloaded but he seems to have gotten a bit strident over the years. He's still pretty solid when he stays focused, but his rants have become less and less balanced in perspective.

[quote]I'm a big fan of a Trek youtube channel called Trek Culture. Eckharts Ladder is good too.

Sean, the cub-ish Irish guy from TrekCulture has a Trek-themed naughty OnlyFans. Mostly with other men, but occasionally women.

For the record, I only found it because he was wearing a Pride-esque DS9 TV shirt, so I looked up his Twitter to see if he was gay or bi, which lead me to his second, naughty Twitter, which is an advertisement for his OF.

VotN, share that link!!! Please

As you wish.

[quote]Sean, the cub-ish Irish guy from TrekCulture has a Trek-themed naughty OnlyFans. Mostly with other men, but occasionally women.

I'm surprised.

Does he really do porn-ish stuff?

Yes. Quite a lot.

That last DISCO episode was pretty boring, probably one of the most boring ones ever done, with the exception of Lt. Cmdr. Joann Owosekun. Great to see more from a supporting cast member that you don’t see enough of.

Just fucking kill off Bok and get it over with but is the Michael Burnham show so that’s not going to happen.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm actually really liking this season, I feel the show has found its footing, though I agree that the show overly focuses on Burnham. Like last season, the middle of this season does feel like it's dragging a bit, as I think 14 episodes is probably too many for these kind of ongoing mystery box of the season thing. DS9 did serialization better because it wasn't so much motivated by a mystery but rather and unfolding and ongoing saga. But I like the more emotional feel of DISCO, but yeah I wish we'd get more of the other characters. Season 2 still remains my favorite season of the show. I think that season had a perfect balance of mystery, character development, and action.

[quote]the middle of this season does feel like it's dragging a bit, as I think 14 episodes is probably too many for these kind of ongoing mystery box of the season thing.

One of the best things about streaming is that they can do shorter seasons with tighter stories because they don't have to fill network time slots.

One of the worst things about streaming is that shorter seasons have less room for inept storytelling and require tighter stories.

I'm of the mind that 10-12 one-hour episodes is probably an optimal streaming season. Eight episodes, like Wheel of Time had, is much too short.

R97 & R98 Discovery's 5th season order has been reduced from 14 episodes to 10 in line with the other Trek series. I think that'll work better for the show so they don't have to do filler in the middle of the season.

I totally agree with this article.

Breaking: Paramount confirms a fourth Kelvin film is in active production with filming set to begin in September. Also a Strange New World trailer was shown to investors and should be out later today.

Any word about casting, R101? Were they able to get the main characters to osign on?

R102 According to Variety all the Kelvin cast are signed on to return with filming set to being in September as R101 already said. The film is scheduled to hit theaters next December.

Can Chris Pine stay sober long enough to film it?

The fact that the writer and director worked on WandaVision makes me...cautiously optimistic.

I'm hoping they might try and bring Sofia Boutella back. I thought she was a great addition, and they need to do something to fill the Chekov-shaped hole.

"Paramount is planning to enter negotiations for “Star Trek” stars Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Zoe Saldana, Karl Urban, John Cho and Simon Pegg to return to the Enterprise for their fourth tour of duty in the venerable sci-fi franchise.".

It's odd that they announce the movie without actually having signed any of the cast. Didn't they learn from the debacle last time they tried to get Pine (and Hemsworth) on board?

[quote]I'm hoping they might try and bring Sofia Boutella back. I thought she was a great addition, and they need to do something to fill the Chekov-shaped hole.

That would be a good choice to fill the Chekov spot. Didn't she go to Starfleet Academy or something at the end of Beyond? I hope they do something that both honors Anton Yelchin AND does service to the Chekov character to explain his absence. I hope he didn't just have an argument with Kirk over not needing PR help anymore.

Blu del Barrio as Adira Is coming back this week on DISCO. Damn! I was hoping to get a longer break from that character.

The writers would probably just work in a parallel to the Prime Universe by saying that Chekov has transferred to the Reliant as its first officer. He's off having adventures but we just won't ever see them.

The first episode of Picard was an improvement over last season. It totally feels like a soft reboot of the show. I have to say though, i'm not a fan of the Picard/Laris relationship.

R110 Should I watch Season One to understand Season 2?

Only if you're a masochist, R111.

Strange New Worlds needs Elnor as a Starfleet cadet...Raffi said his absolute candor was always getting him into trouble.....

R112 Oh shit, just saw the big bad is a spatial anomaly. Again. And again. And again again.

[quote] Should I watch Season One to understand Season 2?

I thought season 1 made some unfortunate choices in its second half, but the season was absolutely watchable, imho. The first couple of episodes are probably my favorites and then the last 20 minutes of the season finale.

If you watch nothing else, watch "Napenthe" the wonderful episode with Riker and Troi.

Or I will have you EJECTED into SPACE!

Yeah, that was a very well done episode.

Even if it was brief, the de-aging of John DeLancie was quite good. Although, damn, he's a very good looking older guy. He's 73, and I'd believe you if you said 60s. Maybe even late 50s.

There's plenty to say about Whoopi, but she was clearly having a blast. I loved seeing Picard and Guinan.

R118 Yeah John DeLancie is hot now, which is bizarre because I never actually found him attractive back in 80s/90s Trek appearances.

I'm very happy with the first episode, it's a vast improvement over the first season. I think this basically proves that Michael Chabon was basically fired and Terry Matalas brought in to right things. I do agree with a lot of the criticism of the Laris/Picard thing. I question this idea that Picard avoids love. Hehad relationships with Vash, that science officer in that terrible episode about music lessons, the woman in insurrection. I think Vash and the science officer both dumped him. As for Picard & Crusher it was Beverly who felt they shouldn't get together even though Picard was wanted to explore their feelings. So this feels kind of forced.

I...want this?

It's a shame the show killed off the hot Romulan from season one.

r121, WTF!!! He was a great character and one of the best ST fighters ever. That was stupid.

Whoopi is BIG AS A HOUSE!

R121 Yeah the writers clearly iced him so they could a romantic story line with Picard and Laris.

Seriously, they have a romantic storyline for 90 year old Picard? Laris is half the age of Picard. It really is throwback to the 80s and 90s when old leading men were paired up with women half their age.

Orla Brady is 60 (also, damn, she looks fucking amazing), so she’s older than Patrick Stewart’s real life wife. And Vulcans and Romulans age more slowly than humans, so it’s entirely possible Laris is older than Picard.

As for Zhaban being killed off, it was at least in part because Jamie McShane was doing other work.

It's the 25th Century now, the year is 2401.

[quote] I don't know how they'll handwave Q being older, but De Lancie looks great.

Well, I thought they handled it great.

r121, dammit! I thought you was talking about Elnor. I’m so glad I was wrong.

I loved the Picard opener, but honestly where the fuck is Beverly Crusher? I get that the writers are trying to move Picard forward so Laris is the new love interest, but could they at least acknowledge Crusher?

I wish I could be Elnor’s starship bunk mate.

I really liked the season opener, but that Picard/Laris hook doesn't feel right. In the first season I took that relationship as 'friends', maybe even as 'motherly caretaker'. And now that hubby is dead, she wants all of Picard? To me that spells horny, not in love. I also don't care about a story from his childhood. Something traumatic happened and it still impacts the 90 year old? And it never came up before? Um... no.

Other than that, I loved it. Milque-toast Agnes finally gets interest being the resident drunk. The Android girl had only three lines. And Seven is still avenging with a passion. (Up next: Seven goes back in time hunting down Putin.) And the look and atmosphere feel right, just like TNG. Let's hope they stay consistent.

For r131.

I hope Android Girl isn't part of this season.

r133, 😛

Because I'm cheap, I'm going to have to avoid this thread. I already know too much about episode 1.

I'm only going to pay for a month of paramount plus. It will be during the final 4 episodes. I'll binge watch to catch up and watch the last 4 episodes in real time. I'll also binge watch the other series. Lower decks for sure, on the fence about discovery.

Just go on one of the pirate streamers like Primewire or 123Movies r136

What, nobody watched "Star Trek: Prodigy"?

I did, R138. I thought it was very well done.

Prodigy was bumpy at the start (like basically every Trek series), but they pulled it together in the last few episodes.

I may have squealed a little when they revealed the flesh and blood Janeway at the end of the finale.

I do like Disco, and Picard, and Prodigy, but the best series is Lower Decks. It reminds me a lot of Futurama in the best possible way, and despite being comedy, has a significant amount of emotional stakes. The most recent season (the second) did something that no Trek series to. my memory has done: It may have only been ten episodes, but there wasn't a stinker in the bunch.

[quote]Patrick Stewart is 82. It's amazing he committed to just one season at his age.

Shatner is 90 and literally flew into space.

Patrick Stewart is 82, yes, but he’s a spry, active and healthy 82.

Again, RLM pretty much sums up my own opinion on Picard S02E01...

Strange New Worlds, featuring a Spock Thirst Trap.

Be one with the horse.

I want to do dirty, filthy things with Ethan Peck.

Anson Mount could get it.

Strange New World looks good. I'm ready for some good Trek with some optimistic vibe.

He has nice legs. Would look good over my shoulder.

SNG Cast

I meant SNW of course. ^

Anson Mount is one hot fucker. He can Mount me anytime.

I wanna see Spock's feets.

^ There's a decent shot at R148 .

They've cast Paul Wesley as Kirk for Strange New Worlds' second season.

R154 and he's wearing Captain's rank. It appears CBS was forced to make the announcement because yesterday fans filmed footage of Wesley in character while SNW was filming in Toronto's Yonge/Dundas sq.

Paul referred to the character as "Captain Kirk" in his tweet. Don't tell me hunky Anson Mount is only going to be in the first season!

R156 I highly doubt it. The whole reason SNW is happening in the first place is because fans wanted a Pike series. Although the promo photo has Kirk wearing an Enterprise delta on what looks to be the Enterprise bridge, in social media footage of Paul Wesley filming, he is wearing an non-Enterprise badge. Also there is new social media footage of Wesley and Christina Chong (La'an) filming a kissing scene in downtown Toronto for this evening (Tues Mar 15).

There is nothing in canon to suggest the Enterprise was Kirk's first command.

R154, here he is as the new James T. Kirk.

[quote]It's the 25th Century now, the year is 2401.

Gee, I hope they updated the Carousel of Progress at Disney.

I wonder if he'll frequently have his tunic torn half-off like Shatner did?

I'm shocked this hasn't been posted here yet.

Yes, yes, an interesting introduction to Hemmer, the Aenar crew member (both actor and character are blind).

But can we talk about the transporter twink?

This looks really good. Very much looking forward to this show.

Is this a Klingon in the shape of the 60s? Or is that something else?

There are some unconfirmed rumors that the show may retcon Pike's fate so he doesn't end up in the blinky chair because it puts too hard a line on the story.

Personally, I think his having knowledge of what's going to happen and how he deals with it adds a lot of depth to the character and hope they don't retcon it.

I mean, we're going to get enough retconning with Uhura, Kirk, and yet another Khan in the show. All they need is another Soong.

One of the Trek YouTube channels I follow made a comment that retconning things would be the worst idea.

It's just such an iconic part of the series, plus the Talos IV episode of Disco was so good (and the woman who played Vina was fantastic). I'd really be 50/50 on the idea. I do like Anson Mount so damned much.

I hope they do keep the hard line. I'd love it if they did a 3 or 4, maybe 5 years at the most series and had plans for a beginning, middle, and end. The worst thing is when shows just go on too long.

Alternately, they could keep Pike around until the proper time of him getting injured and then transition over to Kirk when appropriate.

Let's just kill Pike. Then he'll rise from the deaths like everybody else in Star Trek

I'm not too familiar with Pike's fate. But wouldn't it be possible to just cure him once he's in that machine? Or did he actually end up dying in TOS?

He was left crippled and beeping, and the only thing that apparently would have saved him was the Talosians.

Basically, as they'd paid to shoot "The Cage," they wanted an excuse to cobble together a cheap episode out of the footage.

Pike ends up in a idyllic situation with the Talosians, so retconning the chair makes no sense. BTW, I 'm loving all the trailers. Unlike so many modern trailers, they don't give anything away about the story. They're doing exactly what they're intended to do: getting me extremely pumped for the show.

I want to Mount Anson. And have sex. he is just fucking dreamy male hotness.

r172, thanks for bringing that up: Paramounts trailers and PR work have been driving me bonkers. How can you get surprised watching a show and its episodes when production is sharing all noteworthy events or guest stars way ahead of time in the internet.

[quote]Paramounts trailers and PR work have been driving me bonkers. How can you get surprised watching a show and its episodes when production is sharing all noteworthy events or guest stars way ahead of time in the internet.

Apparently, for many Paramount trailers, those are the only interesting or exciting parts, so they depend on the fact that people viewing them assume that the actual show or movie has even better stuff in them.

I think it's clear Paramount knows they have a hit with SNW.

I wonder when we're going to get the racists crying foul. They've confirmed that the twinky Asian transporter chief is Mister Kyle from TOS, who was definitely not Asian.

The actor André Dae Kim, was on the later seasons of Degrassi: TNG, and has had a glow-up.

From the trailer at R163 it seems like Ethan Peck has upped his Spock Game (which was already very good.) I can't wait for this show.

He also has a great body, so I'm hoping we get a little pon farr action.

I like that in the short clip of him with Chapel, she's teasing him instead of slobbering all over him and serving him soup. I know it's the 60s, wokescolds, SJWs ruining Star Trek, blah blah blah, but watching TOS today, the overt sexism bothers the hell out of me.

Also, the 4K redo of the Star Trek: The Motion Picture Director's Cut (with special effects enhanced even further from the DVD release, as well as the edits that made the movie a lot more watchable) drops on Paramount+ today, with a physical media release later this year.

Happy First Contact Day, everybody. 41 years until we meet the Vulcans.

Terrific. I'll only be 86 when first contact is established.

Which is also about the time you'll finish watching TMP.

I liked TMP. Certainly worlds better than Final Frontier, Generations (the absolute worst), Insurrection and Nemesis.

Oh, I disagree about at least part of that. Generations is one half of a really good movie and another half that's really bad.

There are good parts of TMP, but it's just too damned long with too much staring. I understand why they have the endless beauty shot of the Enterprise, but that doesn't make it move any faster.

Jerry Goldsmith's score, however...

It does look great in 4K. The details you can see on the models are astonishing.

I think that TMP has aged pretty well. When I was a kid, it was ponderous and boring to me, but now, I get it. It was definitely of it’s time, and for the time the SFX were terrific.

I became a Trekkie during lockdown. I HATE new Trek. Maybe Disco and Picard all exist in the bad mirror universe. Maybe that Risa dude with Booker wanted to get back to our Federation universe. I know I would.

[quote]Happy First Contact Day, everybody. 41 years until we meet the Vulcans.

When is WWIII supposed to start?

2026.

Just announced cast for Season 3 of Picard

Levar Burton, Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn, Gates McFadden, Brent Spiner

I stopped watching Picard but I love watching the RedLetterMedia guys vivisecting this show and showing what a cynical, half-assed money grab it is.

I enjoy Picard quite a lot actually this season. I probably would have preferred stories without the time travel shenanigans (that's always asking for continuity debates with the ones picking nits). But it's entertaining, as in never dull, well written and superbly acted. I'm all onboard.

I love RLM’s edgelord stuff.

/s

[quote]But it's entertaining, as in never dull, well written and superbly acted. I'm all onboard.

I'm finding the story muddled and confused at 5 episodes in. The acting is solid, but yet another Soong and more Borg.

Also, the big reveal that Anges was assimilated wasn't...it was in one of the ealier trailers.

I do like this rendition of the Borg Queen. She's different, but as good as Alice Krige's original.

R192, RLM's Mike and Rich genuinely care about Star Trek though. Watch their videos about their favorite TNG episodes to see what massive fans they are. Their enthusiasm brought me to (re-)watch the entirety of TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT over the course of the coronavirus pandemic. They definitely understand Trek, something that cannot be said about the current writers and producers.

[quote] yet another Soong

Agreed. People got tired of the very special Data stories in First Contact already. And Spiner is not that much of an event that he needs to play a hundred characters. At this point it's a not very amusing gag - who will he play this time. The way I see it, the current Picard story could have been played by anyone, unless there is a big reveal coming. Even if there is a need to have Soong in 2024, I wouldn't understand why it always have to be the actors.

Could Soong and his daughter be related in any way to the Eugenic Wars and (Khan Noonien) Singh?

[quote]Could Soong and his daughter be related in any way to the Eugenic Wars and (Khan Noonien) Singh?

No. The Eugenics Wars happened in the 90s.

I'm enjoying Picard this season despite the time travel garbage. It's such a lazy construct and has been done many times before on the show.

R197, did Braga jump back on board? He always loved his time travel and magic reset buttons.

[quote]It's such a lazy construct and has been done many times before on the show.

If you're going to use Q, you literally could do ANYTHING, yet they still go with time travel - smh.

I mean, at least with the TNG episode Tapestry, it was a much better contructed story.

Braga and Berman would be as bad as the current people in charge of Trek. They really need to find people to do for Trek what Filoni and Favreau did for Star Wars.

They need to let DS9’s maestros Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Behr put a Star Trek show together. Maybe a DS9 reboot?

I would love to see Ronald D. Moore put the lessons he learned doing BSG towards a new Trek series, or even to a continuation of an old one (another season of DS9, perhaps).

BSG is one of the few "regimaginings" that worked - frankly, it's much better than the original.

While I wouldn't want every Trek to be like that, I wouldn't have minded seeing Picard follow that example.

[quote] They need to let DS9’s maestros Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Behr put a Star Trek show together.

That would be a dream come true. DS9 is still my favorite show. But why would they agree to do it? Not sure they can gain anything. They already got all the hate for making Star Trek (allegedly) to dark. I'm not sure they would wanna handle an overly critical fanbase - like us.

Aren't they busy with Outlander anyways?

R187 The Third World war was approximately 10 years before first contact.

That would make WWIII occurring in 2053

WWIII ended in 2053.

According to Enterprise, it started in 2026.

You are right R206 but the writers should have considered the probability that after a 27 year long nuclear war there would be no humans left.

What do you all think of Prodigy Season 1?

I thought it was a solid effort and a great storyline that actually developed the new ‘crew’ and made them interesting. Great voice work by the actors too.

I liked it, but it definitely took a few episodes to gel.

Agreed, Prodigy hit its stride later. I really enjoyed it, even though I found the baby-voiced character annoying. Looking forward to season 2.

Prodigy was a solid, but uneven, effort.

I liken it to the first season of Clone Wars which definitely skewed toward a younger audience, similar to Prodigy.

The animation looked a lot like Clone Wars.

They released a preview for the Voyager documentary. It doesn't look like either Jennifer Lien or Jeri participated.

However, towards the end of the video, Garrett Wang does an impression of Kate that almost made me piss myself laughing. I'm not going to tell you, you need to watch for yourself.

No, Roxann either.

She must have been in church.

By that token, I'm a bit surprised Beltran did it. He's as insane as she is.

Should have also gotten Bujold. Or maybe there will be...

Jeri's been busy with "Picard", that's probably why she's not in it. But it's only a teaser, so maybe she'll show up.

Jeez, Beltran acted like such an asshole as he came walking in and sat down!

Lien probably wasn't invited, lest they have a repeat of the flashing incident.

I'd be very surprised if Bujold participated. She was happy to be done with it.

A question: Does anyone else here find Robert Duncan McNeil annoying and arrogant as hell? I always hated it when "Voyager" turned into "The Tom Paris Show".

I'm a little wary to see To The Future. I still haven't seen What We Left Behind. I loved DS9, still do, and really think that the ST writing was at its peak and everybody's acting was wonderful back then. But doing your own documentary sounds very self-congratulatory, more like a convention circle jerk. (hard hitting questions like: Did you know from the start how great the show ended up to be?) Did the DS9 documentary really turn out like that, or am I terribly unfair?

Actually, What You Leave Behind was not a hagiography. They were very critical at points, including saying directly that they'd fucked up by not letting Garak be gay. They also didn't handwave what had gone down with Terry Farrell leaving after the sixth season.

And they didn't shy away from Avery Brooks having something of a prickly personality, although it was also very clear that everyone respected him. To a person, everyone expressed disgust that the studio wouldn't let him shave his head for the first few seasons. And then once he did, Penny Johnson Jerald made a comment about how sexy she thought it was and she loved touching it.

The best years of that era were probably 1989-2000.

Enterprise had potential, but they were so far up their own asses by then thinking their shit didn't stink that it was a mess for the most part, albeit with some great episodes along the way.

Robert Beltran doesn't look too bad, but the only way I recognized Robert Duncan McNeill was by his voice.

Anyone ever get a taste of Garrett's Wang?

Certainly not us, R222!

I always wished that Kes and Seven had both been on the show. It would have been a nice dynamic with the most humanized character who was almost the ship's de facto counselor to help teach the actual former human how to be human again. Also, with Janeway mothering Kes and subconsciously hatelusting after Seven, there would have been some interesting subtext to analyze!

Jennifer Lien was on drugs and crazy, she had to go.

R225, I know the stories but the other stories are that they weren't getting rid of Lien, they were getting rid of Wang until he made that sexist man list. If she was that bad for that long, they wouldn't have been talking about ditching Wang. Honestly, they should have just gotten rid of all the male characters. They all sucked. Maybe Tuvok could stay and the Doctor, even though he could be really annoying and a creeper. The other male characters were just the worst characters on almost any Trek show, especially in aggregate.

[quote]but the only way I recognized Robert Duncan McNeill was by his voice.

I don't know why, but I get irrationally angry when even moderately good looking guys like McNeill let their appearance go to shit. I'm not talking regular aging - that's fine.

People like Brando, Depardieu, and Mickey Rourke really irritate me.

Mulgrew was outstanding as Janeway, an excellent actress. Picardo and Ryan were also great in their roles. The rest of the cast sucked. Just sucked. I wish they'd taken Neelix and blasted him into space. McNeil was miscast, Tom Paris was supposed to be a hardened criminal and McNeil was like a suburban soccer dad. Beltran was so wooden and seemed like he was only doing the show for the paycheck. Roxann Dawson was a one-note unpleasant cunt. Apparently that's what she's like IRL too.

[quote]But are there Jews in space?

I don't know. However, R63, I can tell you that the man in the moon is a lady.

Lien was a great actress, too, and really brought some incredible nuances to Kes. The character was horribly conceived and written though. Not sure what they were thinking when they paired "teenage" Kes with old fart Neelix who according to Tuvok also needed a bath. When Kes finally reached adulthood she finally dumped his ass. It was just a mess. And she really had nothing to do other than showing others the right way. Urgh...

Neelix was another character they never had figured out who he was and what he was supposed to do on the ship. The writing... it always comes back to the writing.

Lien was fantastic in that episode where she was possessed by some alien male warlord.

VOTN, welcome back. last I read you were in med school, or did I misread that. Back to Trek, the third season of Picard annoys me in that they're using the old trope and cliche of time travel. I think three of the post TOS series finales dealt with time travel to hand wave any plot issues. Laziness.

[quote]Tom Paris was supposed to be a hardened criminal and McNeil was like a suburban soccer dad.

I thought that Tom Paris was supposed to be Nick Locarno from First Duty where Wesley was involved in a cover up at the academy. I seem to recall that there was some sort of issue with using that character again on another show, so they had to change him to Tom Paris.

I graduated years ago. My life has finally slowed down just a bit and it's at a point where I can do other things.

R233, there has been a lot said (and guessed) about that for years now. Much of the internet latched on to the idea that the character was supposed to be Nick Locarno but the studio didn't want to have to pay royalties to the character's creators (Ronald D. Moore and Naren Shankar). However, it appears that the real reason they made the switch to Tom Paris was actually because Voyager's creators (Rick Berman, Michael Piller, and Jeri Taylor) felt Locarno was an unredeemable character and didn't belong on the bridge of a starfleet ship..

Linking below to a very lengthy (and infamous) interview with Ronald D. Moore where he discusses Trek in depth... and also completely eviscerates Voyager. The formatting, interview organization, and editing is terrible, so good luck following what's being discussed. But wow does he say a lot of fascinating things.

Years ago, RDM used to drop by the AOL DS9 forum to defend Kira's skin-tight outfit on DS9. A few years later, after he moved briefly to Voyager, we were amused to see him absolutely trash Voyager TPTB for the way they dressed Seven.

How did he 'defend' Kira's skin-tight uniform other than 'viewers need some T&A to watch in case they get bored'?

Thanks for that link, R236. You're right, it's a fascinating read. He was right on so many things (except on not being able to recast Kirk, Spock, & McCoy et al).

I wonder whether Stewart regrets signing on for Picard or whether he did it simply for the money. I mean, he's probably getting a bunch from Marvel to reprise Professor X.

I can see where it might have been enticing when they sold him on the story for the first season - on paper, it sounds great. But, the luke warm first season and this abomination of second season must be disappointing.

Isn't it slated for only three season? I can see where they could do a great spin-off with Rios on the Stargazer with Hurd and the rest without Stewart. I wonder whether they'll try that after.

I would definitely watch Rios, Raffi and Seven in a series

[quote]I can see where it might have been enticing when they sold him on the story for the first season ...

R240, Stewart is directly responsible for the disaster that Picard was in Season 1. He was involved in the concept, tone, and made it clear he wanted it to be unlike Next Gen. I've got no pity for him.

I don't share the criticism that Picard's season 2 is getting right now. It's continuously entertaining and very much watchable in my book. The show is doing a lot of things right that Discovery couldn't - and then some. Picard has good character descriptions and a plot that is moving at a good pace. Albeit some plot lines could be faster and more logical. When it was in the 25th century it had the old TNG vibe. And it has a sensible portion of humor and doesn't take itself too serious like Start Trek often tends to. There are some things that I would have handled differently if I was the Master of Star Trek, but overall I am enjoying this season.

People are so invested and find nits to pick in every scene on any show. I am not even saying they are wrong, but - oh my god - not every little fart needs to lead to a discussion that always seem to end with "Star Trek being so much worse than last year." I certainly have a few bones to pick with Discovery and have very low respect for that show's writing, but I found the perfect solution: I just don't watch it anymore. Thankfully there are lots of good shows out there, and some of them are from the Trek franchise.

"Picard" is only three seasons. The series wrapped production about a month or so ago. Season two has been stronger than season one, but it's not without its problems. It's much better than "Discovery," whose writing during season four was outright awful at times.

I was underwhelmed by the first season of "Picard" and haven't been sufficiently tempted to watch season two. I certainly appreciate when the writers and producers take risks and try new things--after all, this is a 56-year old franchise and you can't just do the same shit over and over again. But very little of the new Trek series' have connected with me in ways that make me want to keep watching.

Maybe it was nostalgia, maybe it was the characters, but the strongest episode of season one for me was "Nepenthe." Is there anything in season two that has this level of emotional connectivity to that which we all loved?

[quote]Maybe it was nostalgia, maybe it was the characters, but the strongest episode of season one for me was "Nepenthe."

I don't think it was nostalgia or fanboy. Most people agree that it was by far Marina's best performance as Troi. Also, from a purely "writing" perspective, it wasn't just a cameo and name dropping that Disco and Picard have the habit of doing. Rather, it effectively leveraged the emotional resonance build over years of character interactions. The episode wasn't just fan service, but built on the existing relationship AND added new story elements (loss of Riker and Troi's son).

It was easily the best episode of the first season.

currently going back and re-watching the films. I know most people hated the whole Kirk thing in Generations, but I realized something: in the horse scene with Kirk and Picard, Stewart is doing all this heavy lifting acting about Starfleet and shit and Shatner is reflecting his time in the series with an almost melancholy nostalgia. Shatner isn't particularly hammy in his decisions to first ignore the mission (re: Star Trek) and then the quiet acceptance that this is all there is. There's just something in his eyes,

In fact the whole film he plays it with a deep sigh, realizing it is his last one.

Dennis McCarthy's wonderful score also adds a lot to that scene.

Generations frustrates me, because there's about half of it that's a really good movie and the other half is a so-so episode. The Kirk stuff--including the Enterprise-B parts--is better than it should be, mostly because, as you say, Shatner reigned himself in. And of course, Picard's own identity crisis is elevated by Stewart. But then Spiner eats all the ham Shatner passed on, and the villain plot is saved only by Malcolm McDowell being so charismatic.

Also: "Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you..."

Thank you VotN (I, too, miss your insights!))

[quote] mostly because, as you say, Shatner [bold]reigned[/bold] himself in.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

I think TheVoiceoftheNight has been here long enough to earn forgiveness for the occasional grammatical error, R251.

I'm re-reading The Elements of Style as I type.

Anyone plan on watching this?

I only now noticed it was a April fools joke

R255, what, you didn't notice the lens flares in every scene? lol

That said, I'd love to have DS9 and VOY remastered.

Me too, but I read it's a bit more challenging than TOS and TNG. Don't entirely understand the challenge. But some wizards post their attempts on YouTube every now and then. It requires more than usual processor power and more time.

I think the issues are more economic than anything else. It's expensive, and even though DS9 has gotten a big reappraisal over the years, it still didn't have the cultural impact of TOS and TNG. I think it will happen eventually as the cost comes down.

I realize I am in the minority but I prefer DS9 and VOY to TOS and TNG

It's a strong minority though, among fans at least. TNG had some real stinkers, in the first two years and at the end as well. But the twenty percent that were truly outstanding (and lots of good episodes in between) generated TNG's deserved lasting reputation.

DS9 was always very well written. I'd say it was the most consistent in terms of writing even though the show was retooled twice. Season 1 was uneven, but already had great episodes. Season 2 is underrated, imo.

VOY is the underdeveloped child that the parents didn't want to outgrow their own potential.

DS9 had more ambitious story arcs, but there was plenty of dreck, including way too much Klingon and Ferengi nonsense. The religious aspects and the Emissary bits were also off-putting and non-Trek, IMO.

I think I lasted 2 seasons of DS9. And only one of Voyager. Both were boring, though I heard DS9 got better after a few seasons.

I lasted like 5 episodes of "Enterprise". That was just terrible, from the opening theme music on.

R258 is correct about economic reasons behind the lack of remastering for DS9 and VOY. When they were producing the DS9 documentary "What We Left Behind", they wanted to include high definition versions of some scenes from the show. Paramount made it clear they were not interested. The producers of the documentary extended their fundraising to include upgrading the footage they wanted to include. What is in there is fantastic, especially the battle from "Sacrifice of Angels". There is a scene of Kira on the promenade which is wonderful to see without that weird soap scum look so much of 90's Trek had.

The film elements exist and are apparently in the same underground protective storage as TOS, TNG, and ENT (VOY too of course), but Paramount/CBS/Viacom does not see DS9 and VOY profitable enough to put in the financial effort. The only reason ENT got a blu-ray release was it was the first Trek to be release on DVD during its original run.

Strange New Worlds opening sequence.

R264 Looking forward to this. I need a break from serialized Star Trek. I'm also looking forward to the internet trolls who'll complain that it's too emotional, or too episodic. My only real concern is the rumours are (from people who've already seen the first few episodes) it really leans on the 60s feel/camp of TOS which isn't my favorite in all honesty.

Enterprise’s lite rock-Bon Jovi theme song was ATROCIOUS. Just awful.

If the opening sequence linked at R264 is legit, it's kind of "meh" to me. It looks like a video game cutscene, not the opening sequence for a Trek series. And the music is a horrible mashup of existing Trek musical motifs backed by bland drums, and doesn't cohere into a unified (or memorable) identify of its own.

Voyager title sequence did a much better job (and with much better music) of capturing the grandeur and wonder of exploration.

This feels very fan-made to me. (Maybe it is and I missed the memo, haha)

[quote]This feels very fan-made to me. (Maybe it is and I missed the memo, haha)

It was released on the official Star Trek twitter.

Thanks for confirming, VotN.

I'm just glad they're giving Sandy Courage's estate some money for using cues from his theme.

[quote]Enterprise’s lite rock-Bon Jovi theme song was ATROCIOUS. Just awful.

They wrote a beautiful instrumental called "Archer's Theme" originally. They moved it to the end credits eventually, but it's exactly the right length, has arrangement and key changes that sync to things happening on screen (woodwinds for the Age of Sail imagery, horns for powered flight, guitar and drums for space exploration), and overall just fits it very well.

Disco used a bit of it in their most recent season, when they unveiled the new spacedock. It was a very nice moment.

As much as I struggled with Enterprise, there are people who loved it, and it's nice that the franchise is doing more to embrace it, for good and ill.

I love Archer’s theme!

I wasn't a fan of Enterprise when it first aired, I gave up on it during the first season. But I binged it on Netflix and it's actually far better than it gets credit for.

I'm kind of meh on SNW. When it was first announced I was excited but seeing clips now, it just seems like a modern TOS and TOS is pretty much my least favourite Trek.

[quote]I wasn't a fan of Enterprise when it first aired, I gave up on it during the first season. But I binged it on Netflix and it's actually far better than it gets credit for.

It has its moments. Not many of them, but some.

The problem was that they weren't willing to accept that the way genre shows were trending, towards more serialized story telling--Babylon 5, X-Files, Buffy, Farscape--and that made it seem really dated.

Which, honestly, is one of the things that makes me cautious about SNW. As long as they're not resetting characters to zero each episode, I'm good, and I don't need a world-ending threat every season, but some through-lines are appreciated.

^ They say the episodes are self-contained, but the characters get light arcs. So right now I am expecting some format like TNG seasons 4 - 7 or DS9 seasons 2 to 6. In my opinion that's the sweet spot, so I'm hopeful.

r273, I had a hard time getting into Enterprise but a few friends encouraged me to give Season 3 a try. I’ve been watching it on Paramount+ and I have to say Season 3 is their best season. Also, their 2 part Mirror Universe story on Season 4 is one of the best MU stories in all of Star Trek.

I may be in the minority, but I always thought that Enterprise had excellent writing in its fourth season that is right up there with some of DS9's better episodes. I credit Manny Coto for that swing to improved writing. It was a shame to cancel the show when it finally hit its stride (imo).

R278 I agree that Enterprise's fourth season was a very strongly written season on par with TNG and DS9 during their best years. It's sad the show finally found its footing in time to be cancelled.

I realize this sounds super bitchy, but a show shouldn't need four seasons to find its footing.

That's not bitchy in the slightest. It's just true.

Season 4 was the show it should have been the entire time. They spent two years trying to be a copy of Voyager (which was itself a copy of TNG, so a copy of a copy), found an interesting plot for S3 that had about even material for a dozen episodes that ended up stretched over twice that (but still managed "Twilight," my pick for the show's single best). Then all of a sudden, they realized that they should have been moving the chess pieces around to get the universe in the places it needed to be for TOS.

And then "These Are The Voyages...." went and took a steaming dump over all of that.

I'll give Brannon Braga all the credit for now being able to acknowledge that they fucked up.

TNG kinda took 4 years to find its footing too.

Season one is mostly bad.

Season two is mostly bad.

Season three is kinda good.

Season four is finally where it got relatively strong.

[quote]Season three is kinda good.

Three of TNG's best episodes--"The Offspring," "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Best of Both Worlds"--are in Season 3, and while not every episode is great, there aren't a lot of stinkers.

Both the critical and fan reaction to the first five episodes of Strange New Worlds have been glowing! CBS' confidence in the quality of the show is apparent in the fact that it allowed the press and select fans to watch half the season over the past few days. I'm excited in that I've missed the exploration side of Trek and while I think Anson Mount is fucking hot, I am not a big fan of TOS and I'm tired of the prequels but I'll still watch lol.

In addition to VotN's (R283) picks, I also liked "The Bonding" and "Sins of the Father" from season three.

I just want to bone Elnor

Get in line r286!

Well, this is going to trigger people.

SNW has also cast the Enterprise's first captain, Robert April, who had only been seen in TAS previously. But they cast Adrian Holmes, who plays Uncle Phil on the Fresh Prince of Bel Aire reboot, which means he's been racebent.

Can't wait to hear the screaming about it.

Good lookin' dude, tho.

I thought Johnathan Archer was the first Captain of the Enterprise.

NCC-1701. No bloody A, B, C, or D.

And absolutely no NX-01.

Sweetly, Fred Bronson, who wrote the TAS episode sent a very nice message to Adrian Holmes on Twitter about how happy he is to finally see the character being brought to life. Someone asked him about the hue and cry over the race change, and he said that he hadn't seen that, didn't agree with it, and only disliked that they made him younger than "The Counter-Clock Incident" established, but that he could live with it.

Am I the only one who is not really excited about SNW? I hate TOS, it's my last favourite of all the Trek shows and this is third prequel (fourth if you count the Kelvin films) to TOS...prequel's just don't work.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they don't just continue the TNG timeline. I can understand that that universe became convoluted, but it's not that prequels get you out of continuity problems. Picard is hardly a continuation considering it went back in time.

R293 One of the reasons the Discovery writers decided to move the show into the future was they tired of the constant canon issues they were facing (and probably in part do to the fan push back of yet another prequel). SNW writers seems as though they are playing a little bit more lose with canon, which might be a good thing, but I agree with R292 as much as I love Anson Mount and Ethan Peck in those roles, this is the third TOS-era series/movie since 2009. I'd rather we do a post-TNG based show. I know Picard S3 is supposed to be much more Starfleet oriented and they spent a lot of money building the new Starship sets......

loved how they let Q (a time lord haha) everybody age whoopi too!

people get older and they change but honestly you look better when you just accept it and live your life.

In all honesty, the first episode of SNW was "meh" to me.

I mostly liked it, although it got preachy. The show has promise.

Captain Pike can fuck me, anytime.

You’re nuts, R298, that was a great episode. No woke shit, no Mary Sue know it alls; it was Star Trek, it was great.

Star Trek has always been 'woke'.

This "no woke shit" is stupid. It means you have no clue what 'woke' is, and no clue what Star Trek is.

I loved it.

Spock knew James T. Kirk's dad??

Anyway, I'm all in.

Elnor is not coming back for s3 of Picard. The actor confirmed. That sucks

I wonder how he felt being just a token cameo character in this season....

That describes most of the cast, R303.

Did Seven kiss Raffi dearly or queerly?

[quote]That describes most of the cast, [R303].

The hell are you talking about? Seven's relationship with Raffi was a huge through-line, as was Rios' with Teresa, and Agnes and the Queen was almost as much screen time as Picard got.

Okay, shall we talk about all the screen time Q, the PIcard Macguffin astronaut, the not Android this time Soong daughter, the FBI guy, Seven's short bald husbear in the alternate timeline, etc.

Elnor was never really an interesting character IMO. I think he had potential but they never knew what do with him really but it sucks he didn't really seem to get a send off. At least Agnes' and Rios' journeys have a degree of closure.

Elrond is/was hot. They didn’t get him shirtless enough.

Ok, I finally finished Picard's second season. Overall, the plot didn't really make sense, did it? Brent Spiner probably makes the worst hammy villain. What I am not quite getting is the Borg plot. WTF was that entity that the Borg tried to contain? And why couldn't they do it on their own and instead required the combined shields of just a handful more Starfield ships? More importantly: Did Picard re-write history by having a Borg reset in 2024? Or did the new Borg queen jump back to the future exactly where we started? Are there two Borg queens now? (Season 2's queen seemed to come from the alternative past, so I'm not sure.)

Lots of Picard Season Two discussion here, R310. But I found that this series is best enjoyed if you don't dwell on the (many) questions and inconsistencies. Instead, just let yourself go on the ride.

BUMP! Star Trek: Strange New World is making most Trekkies, at least the non-ST apologists, think 'Discovery who?' Not so much for Picard because we know the next season will be its last but if Discovery comes with the same drawn out Burnham saves the day bullshit, and get low ratings, I'm predicting next season will be its last.

I don't think Discovery will go beyond the fifth season anyway, despite being one of the top performers on Paramount+. The story's been told and five seasons is a good run, even if we're dealing with shorter seasons than in the days of TNG or ENT.

I don't necessarily think that the story is told. They just don't want to tell all the good stories. There could be so much said about the characters that they neglected. Not even thinking of the bridge crew whose individual names I still don't retain. There are so many facets of these main characters that never got delved into. In the 80s and 90s, every characters got at least two episodes where they got their own story and where they could shine. On DSC they get one story that is rehashed every season. DSC is just not the type of show to tell new stories. Oh well. I am OK with DSC closing the doors.

SNW is in a very public trial-and-error phase where they really go into some extremes of story telling to see what works best. I hope they find a more steady tone next season. Already though it's the show I am most hopeful about.

Totally agree r314! That's my biggest issue with The Michael Burnham Show. All the characters in TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT got their time to shine to the point where by the end of their respective series, we knew who they all were. My God, the Major Kira centered first season DS9 episode "Duet" is considered one of the best Star Trek episodes ever as well as the 4th season episode "The Visitor" which was largely a Jake Sisko centric episode. Hell, even Picard lets their supporting cast shine. There are those that will take up for The MB Show but whatever. I'll be glad when it's gone.

The story as they've envisioned it from the start, i.e. the Michael Burnham Show -- has been told. Discovery suddenly becoming a more TNG-like show in its fifth or sixth season would be worse then the show ending, in my opinion. Just let it be its own thing, for better or worse.

[quote]SNW is in a very public trial-and-error phase where they really go into some extremes of story telling to see what works best.

I disagree. SNW is as regular Trek as it gets, there's nothing experimental about it. But that's a good thing! It was Discovery that was a Trek experiment of sorts and it just didn't work.

So allegedly they are developing two new Star Trek shows, with at least one of them having a female lead. Then we know that Tilly is sent off to the academy. Section 31, I am guessing, has fallen even off the backburner now that Michelle Yeoh is doing movies left and right again. Allegedly Katie Mulgrew is insinuating that she will return in a life action show as Janeway. And station DS9 is featured in Lowe deck's third season.

Anything you like in all that?

I am kinda Star Trek fatigued reading all that. None of that feels special anymore. It's overload and none of it feels fresh. It all feels like milking what viewers responded well to. I don't know. I'll watch it all, but the excitement is just not there anymore. Maybe I am getting old.

They have to keep throwing new material out to keep subscribers. I usually subscribe to paramount plus 2 or 3 months annually. I binge watch all the star trek stuff and that is enough for me as a trekkie lite. But I'm guessing the hard core fans will want to watch new episodes asap. Cbs has to keep one show cropping up after another to keep subscribers around.

Aaaand it's gone. The next Star Trek movie has been 'unset from Paramount release calendar.'

[quote] No surprise here as Paramount has temporarily removed Star Trek from its release schedule. The news comes a month after director Matt Shakman exited the project. A search for a new director is underway. The movie starring Chris Pine — scripted by the feature franchise’s first female writers, Lindsey Beer and Geneva Robertson-Dworet — had been set to open on Dec. 22 next year. Star Trek originally was dated for June 9, 2023, before shifting December 22, 2023.

This news leaves me cold. Of all the options for new Trek, this was my least favorite. I am not really eager to see another Abrams Trek movie.

R319, I'm hoping this one brings the timelines back together somehow and erases the Kelvin timeline. I hope to never see the Apple store version of the bridge again. *insert camera flare here*

So Brent Spiner is coming back to Picard as Lore. That man is like Long Covid. You thought you beat it and then it's coming back. On the bright side: Daniel Davis' Moriarty is returning, too.

I made a separate thread, but here’s the trailer.

As I said, I thought Daniel Davis was dead.

Also, Frakes looks pretty damned distinguished. Good for him.