Realistically, how many masc gay men are there?

Go away, troll.

We are everywhere. We just avoid you queens like the plague.

You seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on sports as the ultimate marker of masculinity. There are plenty of gruff, slovenly men, gay and straight, who don't give a fuck about sports. There are snapback-wearing, football playing gay guys who come off as pretty gay.

I think as soon as you stop stressing out about masculinity you'll attract those masculine guys you so clearly crave. I'm 30 and I don't want anything to do with people like you. Hang ups about acting or looking "too gay" are really unattractive to a confident person at home in their skin.

Also Love Victor is a children's show. It's made for people who grew up in a completely different world. You're making your middle aged ass jealous when you watch that Gen Z wish fulfillment .

Me. My partner. My ex.

[quote] In reality, I don’t know any gay men who take any interest in sports apart from social badminton

You too, huh? My university badminton league was populated by gay men and Asian women. We used to go out for yum cha on weekends.

There’s a few! My ex is a gay cowboy fantasy turned flesh.

Well I did say 4 out of 50 which is 8%. I mean, that’s not bad. And there’s nothing wrong with being not masc or being femme. It’s just all the depictions concentrate on the 8% (e.g. Brokeback) which is great for beating stereotypes I admit.

5

R8 I’d say it’s probably closer to 3

So in R8 you undercut what you said first, OP.

Entertainment is about getting people to watch. Sometimes you educate ‘em; sometimes you pander to them.

OP references Bokeback but ignores Boys in the Band.

WFT is your definition of " masculine'? Plus, if you got out of your little clique and probably out of your city, you'd experience an entire new world of gay men.

I’m a masculine, dominant top. I love all sports except soccer and hockey. And tennis, but is that even a real sport? Looks more like a type of cardio. I digress.

You’re right OP that we’re few and far in between. I don’t have many gay friends like me. Which is why I have a lot of straight friends. But it means I often feel lost between two worlds. I don’t really do anything that would identify me as gay, other than fuck men. So you bottoms should consider yourselves lucky that you feel more attached to the “gay community” than people like me do, with your love of Judy Garland and Broadway and all that.

The only good thing about it is that I easily get all the bussy I want. I’m like the last top on a planet of bottoms. But sometimes it can be too much to handle, especially when you want to settle down with one guy. Cause bottoms don’t care if you’ve got a boyfriend, they’ll keep knocking regardless.

Not like the other gays

The word 'bussy' is a turn-off to me. My ass shuts down if a top refers to ass as such.

My partners have all been masculine, and straight-passing. That’s just all I’m attracted to. And I’ve been single for a couple years in between men, but I never settled for a femme guy. The real men are out there! You just have to be patient. That being said, one was a tennis player and mega tennis fan, and the other two love watching (and playing amateur) football, baseball, and volleyball.) I couldn’t even throw a ball across my bedroom.

You're seeing all sorts of gay men every day. Some you recognize as gay right off, and some you just incorrectly assume are straight because they don't fit the classic gay mold.

How in the universe could this even be calculated?

I’ve always said that we should have some secret tattoo to identify the masculine gays. Something maybe on the neck right below the left ear. Somewhere highly visible, I don’t know. But then the straights would think it’s cool, co-opt it like everything else and fuck our system all up.

Yet another "I'm gay but I'm not one of THOSE gays!" threads. And around and around we go, seemingly endlessly. Doesn't anyone else get bored by this topic? Ever??

R12 I’m a top, but am not particularly masc so don’t get the pick of the bottoms like you do. That’s life, I guess.

I agree OP. I’m straight passing but I’m not alpha or particularly masculine. Genuinely masculine gay guys are extremely rare.

[QUOTE] The word 'bussy' is a turn-off to me. My ass shuts down if a top refers to ass as such.

Then that means you’re probably not my type, R14, so the status of your ass wouldn’t be relevant to me. There’s so much bussy out here, I can be as picky as I want.

They’re not that rare. The only people who say they’re rare are those who are trying to be A-list and part of a clique.

Once you step outside of that world, it becomes more common.

Masculine gay guys are not fabulous, they’re not gonna get you in backstage to a a drag show or a popular gay bar, they also don’t hang out in cliques and will be considered boring by anyone who doesn’t want to get fucked by them.

Masculine men may like femme guys but they don’t like divas and cliquey gay guys which is what most femme men out there are like, like drunk drag queens.

Femme guys who aren’t attention whores and who are more like homebodies/domestic are the ones who attract these masculine guys.

Cliquey gay guys will be forever trapped trying to be fabulous. That’s a world where genuine masculine men rarely exist.

R15 that’s interesting, but my post was not about thirstily looking for masc guys but just commenting on how the media portrayal that ‘we’re just like other guys’ falls short of reality.

If we’re talking about attraction, I’m a top and there are aren’t that many masc bottoms to go around, so it’s not like it’d be easy to find one. But it’s okay I’m attracted to all sorts anyway. My last boyfriend happened to be a straight acting bottom but definitely open to other types. As I say, I’m a nerdy gay guy who hates sports and likes interior design. I recognise I’m part of the 92%.

Yeah, if you're a top you aren't going to attract a lot of masc guys.

I always wonder if the guys who claim to be masc really are?

I know plenty of queens who got muscles and purses fall out of their mouths.

As far as truly masculine, I’d say 10-15% of gay men.

R26 I agree, no more than 15% if we’re being generous…..

R26- In my day it wasn't purses that fall out of their mouths it was POCKETBOOKS.

[quote]The real men are out there!

You are contemptible, R15. May your grease fire be extra hot.

R29- That's perhaps as equally offensive as the ad that say- NORMAL guy seeks other NORMAL guy for relationship.

Why the fuck anyone equates being 'masc' with liking sports as if that is the only qualifier is completely beyond me.

R31 - It’s a US thing. It doesn’t apply in the UK. Here in the US, our professional athletes are expected to be masculine. The few that are openly gay are very straight-acting, or else they don’t last very long in the world of professional sports (see Michael Sam.) Of course the exception is in the world of figure skating (if you consider that a sport) the males are allowed to be extremely flamboyant.

Dear DomMascTop:

How do you feel about older men?

Gee…I wonder if he’s hairy…my minds going all sorts of places

18

You’re spiraling over a fictional teen drama OP....perhaps it’s time for a little tune up with the therapist?

There's a difference between masculine and straight-acting/assumed to be straight. The % of gay men who people would be surprised are gay is probably 10-15%. The majority of gay men are mostly masculine with slight feminine characteristics/mannerisms.

Not sure where some of you have the idea that masculine guys like femmes. In my experience, gay masc guys like other gay masc guys. That's why you see so many masculine couples who look like twins.,

R38 - “that’s why you see so many masculine couples who look like twins.”

Those aren’t “real” couples. They couple-up with lookalikes for Instagram and social media purposes They always break up within months.. I know several couples in real life with one masc and one femme partner.

What do you suppose we do with non-masculine gay men, OP? They’re already being forced into transitioning (feminine boys, that is), so they’ll be gone and you can reconcile your life as a gay man because feminine gay men will be gone (or fewer in existence).

About half of gay bottoms are undiagnosed transgender. That puts things in perspective; after subtracting the pre-ops, there are almost as many gay bottoms as gay tops (but then a lot fewer gay men).

The OP is going through a crisis but he needs to be patient. They’re working on getting rid of feminine gay men and masculine lesbians. Tavistock even said, “pretty soon, they’ll be no more gays or lesbians left!” Be patient, OP.

Although I think this is an attempt to keep promoting a teen drama in which you are probably not the intended age demographic, it does bring up a something that is a bit of a phenomena to me. That would be femininity in gay men and masculinity in lesbians. Gender norms are culture specific, so none of us will agree on the exact parameters. Out all of the gay men I know, literally 4-5 of them would not immediately stand out. The others display mannerisms that are quite obvious. Pete Buttigieg for instance: if I didn't know anything about him, my assumption would be that he's a married post-military nerd with 3-4 kids and a cookie cutter house wife. His breed is rare and jarring to those who have never met anybody like him. On the other hand, I know plenty of gay men like his husband who are, in my judgement, quite obvious. Smart and well put together, but they are certainly not masculine.

OP is a troll having some fun

"MascDomTop" is a parody account.

Are you all new here?

R44 - I realize he’s a troll, but I’m also enjoying expressing my opinion in response to his ridiculous posts.

I’m not a parody account, R44. I’m the real deal.

[QUOTE] Not sure where some of you have the idea that masculine guys like femmes. In my experience, gay masc guys like other gay masc guys. That's why you see so many masculine couples who look like twins.

This is true to an extent, R38. I used to be the same way in my teens and early 20’s. The problem is that those masc guys aren’t down to bottom every night. Their back porch isn’t up to the cleanest standards. Sometimes they actually think they’re going to top me (which is never going to happen). As the years go by, you begin to appreciate the more feminine bottom who knows their place. They’re always ready and willing. Clean as a whistle. Never complain about bottoming too much like the masc versatile guys. They know their role, and they know yours. The fem bottom is the closest thing you can have to a wife. Of course you still have to make sure you’ve got the right one that fits your personality.

R46 I will say your handle is a bit try-hard. Masc doesn’t have to announce, it just is. I believe you though.

R46

Oh honey, you may not THINK you're a parody, butcha are.

Posted By - Masculine, Uses Power Tools, Uses a Sewing Machine, Hates Sports, Loves Books and Movies, Talks with My Hands, Still Pass as Straight, Don't Have the Time or the Inclination to Spend Hours Maintaining a Squeaky Clean Ass for the Likes of You

Oh - and Tops AND Bottoms

There is usual shades of grey with all of the gay men I know, including myself. Someone may appear masculine to the average person they pass on the street, but have some 'fem' mannerism come out from time to time. That's fine with me. Other guys are very fem. I think gay men in-touch with the 21st century understand that it's not all black and white. You can throw out a "Yes, queen!" during brunch, then talk about sports over dinner (trying to find a stereotype). The biggest thing about being gay today is that no matter what their friends and family will know someone is gay view their social media, so there is no need to put on a persona. Be more fem or more masc to your heart's desire.

It's attitude, personality, body, and connections that build my attraction.

No gay men are interested in sports, trust me! Even though I am very, very straight I know some gays!

R37, really? There have been studies on "gaydar" and most people only correctly guess if a guy is gay or not about 60% of the time

God, this thread reminds of that ridiculous website "Straight Acting.com", some the queeniest looking messes I've ever clapped eyes on were featured there. Most of the problems of the world are caused by heterosexual males, is that really something for gay men to aspire to?

Just be yourself.

The more "straight acting" they are, the more likely they are to be closeted. I've known former college football and basketball players and an ex Navy SEAL who were gay. All those guys were either closeted or came out when they were, like, 40

[quote]About half of gay bottoms are undiagnosed transgender.

You mean half of them should have mental illness instilled in them to make them believe their own body isn't acceptable and that they should hate themselves? Or is that already a problem and we believe that fixing them is too much work so we just call it a day and write tranny on their nametag?

[quote]You mean half of them should have mental illness instilled in them to make them believe their own body isn't acceptable and that they should hate themselves?

It isn’t he that’s encouraging them to hate who they are—it’s them.

R55, the mental ill ones are gay Republicans who use slurs like "tranny" but would freak out if someone called them a gay slur

I play tennis and golf regularly if you must know, OP.

And stop watching videos from Helix and Cockyboys and your world will suddenly become more masc.

I'm one.

I was with some of the sports players at my school(s) and they are so hot but some them wear panties and get into some freaky stuff. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.

I hooked up with this one jock from another school and he was a complete freak. He was so masculine but he had a fetish. Started with women’s socks that stopped at the knee but kept going further and further. The last time we hung out he answered the door in a wig and lipstick and lingerie, the whole 9. Keep in mind this escalated from just the socks to wig in about 4 times of hanging out. Maybe a months time.

The final time before I ghosted, I had to pretend he was a girl and I was on a first date with her and she was a virgin like this whole scenario. He had a deep voice and a huge Adam’s apple and 5 clock shadow and full on Adonis body. It got out of my confort range very quickly.

MascDomTop = Helium Heels

And you girls are falling for it

412, Rose!

The best guys and most sexy to me aren’t really fem or masc. definitely not the masc stereotype. The ones who are effortless and comfortable with themselves. They don’t chase every trend and fad. Or use all the slang.

I don’t mind fem guys tho. They don’t bother me. I am always a little shocked when someone disses someone because they are fem. But it really turns some guys complete off. They hate it. It’s like an irrational phobia to me.

Now being catty is a different story. But straight guys can be so catty too.

The further gay and bi dudes are from gay culture and places, the more masculine and mainstream they are. Gay culture and spaces fenininize men. Bi/gay guys who live completely or almost completely integrate lives with their mainstream peers tend to be the most masculine or no stereotypical.

[quote]Gay culture and spaces fenininize men

Statements like this are why that trans shit is everywhere today.

How dense ARE you all?

Even the name "MascDomTop" is a parody-- this is a gossip site, not fucking Grindr, which is where a name like that is all too common.

There's a difference between authentic masculinity and basic heteronormative douche bro-ness. I've known very "gay" men that I can tell are gay at a glance, and yet are still very masculine. Some people are just authentic with both their masculine and feminine traits however they are mixed. These are the guys I am most attracted to.

Unless you observe a dude checking a male out or kissing a dude, how would you know a truly masculine dude is gay? Society views gay mannerisms and nonsexual traits as decidedly unmasculine.

Well, I guess Carl Nassib is one.

Masculine gay men are everywhere, I would say 2 out of 3. You don't notice them because they fit it with the rest of society without standing out. I know plenty of these type of guys. They are not into "Broadway musicals, reality shows about housewives, designer labels, award shows or any of that stereotype bull shit. So chances are you are not going to run into them. They do in fact like and watch sports and go to games but not obsessed with it. They look and act like regular guys and they don't hide being gay. It's just who the are, not something they camp up to be noticed. They roll their eyes at queens such as yourself think they are being cute and tell them their going to lose their gay card.

What are they supposed to do, wear a sign? Rainbow socks?

20 percent at most.

R46

[quote] . As the years go by, you begin to appreciate the more feminine bottom who knows their place.

[quote] The fem bottom is the closest thing you can have to a wife. Of course you still have to make sure you’ve got the right one that fits your personality.

Hon, your ideas about people knowing their place and your notion of what a "wife" is are from the 16th century. If I was a plastic blow-up doll with plastic hole, I wouldn't fuck you. That attitude!

Masculinity is so fragile that all it takes to destroy it is a single pair of lace panties.

??? R74?

Not if you are a masculine gay men. Keep that straight BS woman hear me roar mentality to yourself.

What makes gay men feminine? Is it prenatal hormone levels?

In my experience, when gays are in a group they tend to collectively act more “gay’.. Look at half of those men outside of that setting and they are just regular dudes who could pass as straight or gay. Similarly, straight dudes butch it up in certain settings but many are just regular dudes. There are many men out there, I would say most, that you can’t tell if they are gay or straight. People just tend to focus on the opposite ends of the spectrum-“femme” and “masc”

R70 Lol, don’t get fooled by that trained fake voice, Nassib is a sparkling cookie smeller with DSL.

The same people saying that also said that about Pete Buttigieg.

I would love to see Pete "act gay" or camp it up in a group, but somehow I don't think he dose.

The campiest Pete got was playing soldier....

Mascdomtop is neither masc, nor dom, nor top. Discuss!

Me! Over here! On the aisle!!!

Wrestler Darren Young

I hope not r80. We have enough stereotypical, effeminate gay dudes. We need more truly masculine gay dudes

So, why is DL so damned butch? I'm starting to think that everyone here lives in Pig's Knuckle, Arkansas and has been drinking the macho man Kool Aid for too long.

OP, Gay men are no different than straight men. The majority of men, of any sexual persuasion, leans towards masculinity over femininity. By your own admission you are a fem boy, and this is why you are struggling to accept that other gay men are not like you.

R87 Wrong, gay men are indeed different than straight men. That’s why AI can easily distinguish between gay men and straight men.

AI was not perfect, 100 percent

[quote] So, why is DL so damned butch? I'm starting to think that everyone here lives in Pig's Knuckle, Arkansas and has been drinking the macho man Kool Aid for too long.

Oh yeah!

People are meant to live in wet areas, not arid desert lands

Christ. Another thread filled with homophobia towards "femme" men. When 95% of gay men are femme, why do you do this to each other? Are you trying to build an elite club of "masc" gays who "pass"? Is it any wonder why some "femme" men want to trans? They get more more acceptance from the straight world than they get from their gay brothers.

LOL, on Sundays, DL is empty because 95% of the posters are watching football, drinking beer, smoking cigars, scratching their asses, and yelling "Dude!" and "Bro!" at the TV every time their team scores a touchdown.

R92 People do this to elevate their self-image, which is what most social interactions online are all about. There are some very successful platforms to keep up the delusion.

Imagine walking around trying to act "masc". Trying to remember to walk with a swagger, speak in a lower voice register, spread your legs apart when you sit. It's kind of like being in the closet. But as soon as you open your mouth, purses come flying out anyway. But...keep trying, I guess?

R95 Maybe you should let Carl Nassib know, lol. But many people people want to be fooled, even on the DL.

[Quote]At university a lot of the swishy borderline nerdy guys disappointingly turned out to be straight.

I wonder why OP felt the need to type that? It doesn't exactly help his argument.

If you’re done with your count off now, can you please just send them over to my house, thanks!

Masculine guys who like sports and have straight friends don't come out. They don't want to lose access to that world. So they marry girls and pursue guys on the downlow. Most of the guys I was with in my teens craved dick like water but are with women today.

I'm mathculine.

[quote]Watching Love Victor, I’m reflecting again on how we love to see ‘ordinary guys’ turn out to be gay. Victor is a basketball star. Benji is a masc musician. Simon is very masc and ordinary. They’re all attractively boyish/manly.

I think the question is as to whether Victor and Benji are classified as masculine or straight passing.

Masc4Masc Bro Hung4Hung 😷 💦 🍆

I think there is more masc guys out there than what OP sees - or thinks he sees. A lot blend in really well, and you want find them at the bars or nightclubs like what R23 points out - for a start, the music doesnt appeal. I'm not into divas or dance music or disco type stuff, more at ease with country and southern rock. This was particularly noticeable when I was younger - I'd go to clubs sometimes with my first partner, it'd be wall to wall Madonna and such but I'd rather be at home listening to Johnny Cash or Waylon Jennings.

As for the sports thing, R3 is dead right - it isnt a reliable indicator. I cant be arsed with team sports, but individual sports like swimming, cycling I'll do, I cant hit a ball for shit though. The only exception is motor sport, I do like NASCAR or the local equivalents

The gay population is like an iceberg - the obvious flamboyant ones are the ten percent that are visible above the water. The rest you have to look for, in all sorts of places.

R38, I'm masc, and I definitely prefer femmes, or at least guys that arent too masculine (eg Nicholas Fairford). Like R46, I used to initially gravitate towards other masc guys in my teens and early 20's but it was femmy guys that always really got me going

R12 who or what is a Judy Garland and where is Broadway? We have a Broadway here, its nice and wide and good for street racing, I did a fair bit of illegal street racing in my youth in an assortment of old V8's

Yeah, who is Dorothy, OK.

147,344.

50/50

[quote] I easily get all the bussy I want

Your use of the term "bussy" is an indication that you're not as masculine as you think, R12.

Hehe that’s true though

R103, I find guys like you an anomaly in one respect: That you are drawn to femme guys. In my experience, the vast majority of truly masculine gay men prefer guys like themselves. (Hence, many of the comments here on DL about so many gay male couples looking like twins.)

[quote]Your use of the term "bussy" is an indication that you're not as masculine as you think, [R12].

Mussy is even worse because it makes me think of this:

There's more masc gay men than there are fem gay men. The reason why you think there aren't is that for decades we were only ever represented in the media as "women trapped in men's bodies". It wasn't until shit like Brokeback started coming out that gay men were portrayed as normal men in television and film instead of effeminate fairies.

That's why all the recent demands for femme gay representation in media piss me off so much. Masc gay male representation has barely been around for a decade now and it's STILL rare. It's the femmes that are overrepresented in media.

Well, masc is boring and femmes are fun. We already have Joe Rogan, it's not that much more exciting to have Gay Joe Rogan, is it?

R112 Gay male representation isn't supposed to be "fun" or "exciting", it's supposed to be normal. We aren't a freak show for heterosexuals to gawk at, despite the direction our blue haired brethren want us to take.

You sound really insecure, r113.

R114 Forgive me for wanting better for us.

It’s very true that the vast majority of truly masculine bi and gay dudes never publicly identify as gay. In fact, most don’t even think of themselves as “gay,” even when they openly express attraction to males. The “mostly straight” and “fluid” identity allows a lot of these guys to express and explore interest in guys without taking on the association with effeminancy linked to gay identity. These guys see themselves as regular, mainstream dudes and want to blend in and continue to be integrated with their male peers.

Sorry, R113, but the whole point of shit being on TV/movies is that it should be interesting or exciting. So the entertainment value of the gays IS pertinent to the conversation. And masc is boring.

R113 Gays have been a lot of things, but “normal” is not one of them. For most to all of their history they in fact have been defined by the culture at large as “abnormal”. “Normal” is not a banner I ever care to wear, once that happens it invalidates all that came before it in creating a unique, vibrant, resilient culture and community. Normal = Erasure

R103 - I may just be really stoned right now (I really am) or I just fell in love with you. Every word you said spoke to me.

Supply just entered the chat

The only gays who've never seen a camera lens they didn't like are femme James Charles types. They, unfortunately, become the face of our community even though many, many of us don't look like or identify with them.

It’s true effeminate guys are not only more likely to be out, but also more likely to seek the spotlight for their sexuality. By definition, masculine guys integrate with mainstream men.

A good example is Kerry Rhodes and Mantasia. Kerry treated him well, was loving and generous but had no intention of coming out and dealing with the baggage and drama. But Tasia saw stars and wanted attention so he tried to force his hand by going public. Kerry is married to a woman now.

All the masc guys are on RealJock.com not DL you silly OP.

The media loves to pit day gays as flamboyant butt-fuckers.

Actually, we are pretty normal. Boring, really. But with better taste in general.

I actually saw two guys chilling and chatting at the vaccine centre earlier today. I grew envious of the natural masculine camaraderie they had. Meanwhile, I can’t sit properly and when I speak, I sound ‘soft’ - not queeny exactly, just limp. I also tend to talk about interior decorating way too much. I know these aren’t ‘bad’ characteristics but still feel insecure about them.

Gay male representation is never going to be perfect because the truth is most gay men are in fact neither femme nor masc, but something in the middle. Despite that middle ground being the majority it's never going to be represented because it's too complex for straight people to swallow. They need to see us as either complete flamers or butch overcompensating manly men. The truth of the middle is too difficult for them to understand.

* depict , not “pit days”. Geeeze auto correct

You know how "An' I aksed De'Shaun what was he doin' wif Shaniqua cause he her baby daddy" is the image so many people have of Blacks, even though the majority of Black people are not like that?

Exactly.

The broadest stereotypes will always be the ones you notice.

Sometimes this place makes me want to join up with those Moorish militia guys. Whitey paradise.

Moors are hot bro

That Moor guy on YT was kind of hot, but his mind is gone...

R131 Moors be chillin’ today. In the Billerica (MA) House of Correction on $100,000 bail apiece pending arraignment in Malden District Court on Tuesday morning.

Two things for the Moors to consider when they next head to their “private land.” How fucking disorganized are you when you run out of gas about 60 miles from Providence where you started from? A full tank would have gotten them to Maine. And if you’re going to do something so half-assed, don’t do it on the Saturday of a three day weekend unless you want that extra day in jail.

R133 They may not be awares of our holidays.

Since our laws don’t apply to them, I guess you’re right R134.

Why do the cops and the courts persist in thinking otherwise?

I just read a book by a Spanish gay, Jesus Marinas, in which he blows out of the water (outs) many Spanish super celebs of the past. He knew them all. Its a great read but what strikes me most is he writes about being masc and his revulsion for femme gays. Its a big turn off. It smells if self-loathing. Plus look at this guy. Masc?

I think sometimes masc guys are not as masc as they think. And it the end it doesn't matter so why worry about such things?

[quore]Actually, we are pretty normal. Boring, really. But with better taste in general.

Even that is not really true. I know more than a few gays that have really bad taste. Oh they think they have taste because they are gay but trust me they need more help than some straight people I know.

Yeah, true. I hate it when gay men verbally perpetuate gay stereotypes.

R127

I don't agree. I think the whole fascination of straight women for gay men is that dual masc/fem thing that so many gay men have.

I know it's popular for gay men to see themselves as way more sophisticated than "breeders", but maybe real life (as opposed to DL threads) is more nuanced than that!

Maybe, just maybe, there are plenty of straight people who appreciate gay men.

Show me the straight people who appreciate gay men NOT by going to those kink parades. I bet there are damned few.

R139 not sure what you’re trying to say?

Define masculine.

Stop asking them trick questions R142

Define masculine.... moustache, 501 jeans, plaid shirt???

That would be a circa 1970s San Francisco parody of masculine R144

Plus outside of DL, clothing does not equal personality

So, policeman hat, assless chaps, and moustache???

Masc = not femme.

Is Caitlyn still masc?

R147, define feminine!

Is Chasten masc?

Femme = big Mary!

[quote]I just read a book by a Spanish gay, Jesus Marinas, in which he blows out of the water (outs) many Spanish super celebs of the past.

Which ones?

Too many to list, but let's just say his comments about Julio Iglesias were surprising. So many gays.

You don't have to list all of them, just the really surprising ones. And what does he say about Julio Iglesias? I'm not a Spanish speaker.

R150 Chasten is in between.

Who are these right wing idiots who keep promoting outdated, bigoted gender stereotypes?

R126

[quote] Meanwhile, I can’t sit properly and when I speak, I sound ‘soft’ - not queeny exactly, just limp

Thats so sexy and sensual - dont feel insecure, some of us find those attributes extremely attractive

R144, are you typing from the Castro in 1975, dude?

Clothing and physique don’t make a guy masculine. Personality, voice, manner of dress, lifestyle, and interests do.

Masculinity is about. Persona, vibe, how one carries oneself

I’m kind of intrigued by the YouTube’s Zach Garcia and his husband Alistar. They both present very masculine, but what they show of their lives belies that facade and they seem to have a very good relationship.

It’s great to have masculine role models because it encourages more masculine dudes to come out and be at peace with their sexuality. That’s not to devalue nonmasculine guys, but masculine guys tend to not identify with fem guys or feel they have an identity in common.

R161 = Zach Garcia

If you can pass for white, why would you identify as black?

Masculine men matter

[quote]I don't agree. I think the whole fascination of straight women for gay men is that dual masc/fem thing

Projection and stereotyping Alert. I have no interest in woman in general, if they disappear off the planet tomorrow I wouldn't even notice. I dont hate women, just not into the, not into female celebs, fashion, Diva or any of that stereotype nonsense.

I like men, simple as that.

Yes Eldergays

Younger gay men who don't have stereotypically gay mannerisms are more likely to be out.

As has been noted on DL many times, the whole "sounding gay" thing is something many older gay men picked up as a result of being ostracized and only spending time with other gay men.

And "sounding gay" is really what you all are talking about with "masc/femme", as in "when this guy orders from a waiter in a restaurant or asks the supermarket clerk what aisle the eggs are in, do they immediately know he's gay?"

Voice is but one aspect of how people perceive masculinity. Even if a dude sounds masculine with regard to his voice, people will not view him as masculine if the context of what he is saying is not what people perceive as manly or masculine. Likewise, if he displays mannerisms, style of dress, and interests atypical of males, he will be viewed as nonmasculine even if his voice is.

[quote]Younger gay men who don't have stereotypically gay mannerisms are more likely to be out.

And yet the flamboyant queens thinks no one can tell they are gay. It's been like this since the dawn of time.

I have found men who use the word Fabulous tend to not be straight.

Yes R169 though 90% of the the voice and the mannerisms go hand in hand.

And when I read what DLers who live in Darkest Flyoverstan think of as "gay" attire, I often think that they'd assume that 90% of the straight men in places like NYC, LA and DC are gay.

What’s an example of a straight dude wearing gay attire? Gym bros bow wear stuff that was considered gay pre 2010.

Does having Lance Bass in his instagram stories make him less masc?

R171 George Bush the younger used the word all the time.

His secret or the exception that proves the rule.

OP, last year there were PLENTY of mask gay men. This year, not so much.

And how old is he R175? Can you find someone under 65 who is straight and uses that word all the time without sounding gay?

"Gay men are half as likely to be passionate sports fans compared to the 60% of straight men who say that, while the 40% number for lesbians mirrors that of straight women, according to the survey published last week in the Sociology of Sport Journal."

R164- He was stereotypically gay anyway. What was the big surprise , unlike that big MASCULINE 🐮 of a football player who came out recently.

R177 He was under 65 when he used it and people reported what he said, not uncommon when you’re the President of the United States. And unless Laura’s been bearding for him for forty-plus years, he’s straight.

I blame Brokeback Mountain. Ever since then, gay men are convinced they will bag a macho cowboy.

Haha. My husband and I are cowboys who load hay on trucks, train horses, etc and I still use 'fabulous' often enough.

Do your boots sparkle R182?

I don't feel like reading every post but am I the first to comment that this same topic gets discussed pretty much once a month here?

unless a man wears his homosexuality like a t-shirt….no one really knows……..it’s not that there aren’t that many…..you just don’t know who they are.

[quote] "Gay men are half as likely to be passionate sports fans compared to the 60% of straight men who say that...

Thank god for that.

Most team sports are a kind of a bore (hockey excepted, imhu)

Still, it’s impressive so many gay dudes are sports fans. I think Gen Z gays are growing up more like their peers and less likely to be different than other males

That R187 and more likely to be out.

As has been noted on DL many times, given the specter of AIDS, most "straight acting" gay or bi guys who came of age in the 80s and 90s were unlikely to come out, which is why DLers are always picking up closeted married guys in their 50s and 60s and why the gays who did come out always seem so over the top femme/gay, as that was the prevailing culture among out gays at the time and guys just picked up on it.

...and why the gays who did come out always seem so over the top femme/gay, as that was the prevailing culture among out gays at the time and guys just picked up on it...

R188 You don't have a clue what you're talking about, understandably if you're in your 30's. I've been out in the company of out gay men (and a lifetime's worth of straight men, too) for about 55 years now. "always seem so over the top femme/gay" describes a tiny minority of the gay men I've met or even seen during that time.

You seem to be confusing - whether deliberately or by your ignorance - "out" with "over the top femme/gay." "Over the top femme/gay" wasn't the style in the 70's and 80's for the vast majority of gay men then nor is it now. Take your limited stereotypes (or deliberate ignorance) with you as you leave.

Maybe its just that the femme guys are the most memorable.

While I am sure that is your truth R189, many DLers your age seem to report a very different truth.

It may just be where you live.

PS: Good luck with the anger issues. Try breathing exercises

Of course, fem guys are mostly likely to be out because Society assumed they were gay since childhood. It’s easy to come out if people perceive you’re gay and already treat you as gay. Masculine men who are unclockable have the option to remain closeted for life, and most are many actually still do. Giving up Masculine privilege and acceptance is extremely difficult

[quote]There's more masc gay men than there are fem gay men

Bullshit! The vast majority of gay men I meet in person are effeminate and I'm hardly the most masculine guy out there myself.

13. In North America.

[quote]most "straight acting" gay or bi guys who came of age in the 80s and 90s were unlikely to come out, which is why DLers are always picking up closeted married guys in their 50s and 60s

Completely the opposite of that. I was out in college and my first job and almost everyone thought I was straight and not uncommon for people to assume I had a girlfriend or wife. I am very early Gen-X 1963. Your description seems to be more of a Boomer stereotype. There were other slightly older gay in the office in their 30's, no of them were out but boy were they cruzy non committal about their sexuality or else very flamboyant.

R195 Baby boomers include everyone born through 1964. Look it up.

R196, YOU need to look it up. I bought the book years ago when it first came out which coined the term called Generation X by Scott Parker-Anderson. He coined the term and set it at 1963. Look it up. It was the insurance industry that came along after that and proclaimed a later arbitrary date. Of course Millennials are too lazy to do actual research if it doesn't involve a Google search. Stop repeating everything you read on the internet as fact before you correct some about something you know nothing about.

If you're going to get all Aspie about it R197, the actual guys who came up with the theory of Generations were historians Neil Strauss and William Howe, who put out a book called "13th Gen" about Gen X that is part of their whole theory of various generations and their effect on the world.

They defined X as starting in 1961 as people born that year would be too young to remember the JFK assassination, which they termed a seminal moment for the Boomer generation.

Using that, I've seen people put Zoomers as starting in 1998 for similar reason--too young to remember 9/11.

And I suspect there will be a new post-Zoomer generation that starts in 2018 as those kids are too young to remember 1/6 and/or the pandemic.

Who’s Zooming who?

Your Wiki link R198 is dead

R199

Frank Ocean is all man

There's a lot of masc gay and bisexual guys. They are just less likely to be out or if they are out they aren't recognized by people on streets. The media seems to prefer flamboyant or androgynous gay guys or lipstick or soft butch lesbians.

R12 - You are not perfect because you don’t like hockey.

R12 thinks he's so butch and masculine he has almost nothing to do with bottoms or the gay community yet he reads and post on a gay gossip board full of queens.

Darren Young and Frank Ocean are role models for masculine bi and gay bros