Forgotten movie stars of the golden age who deserve to be remembered, who are they ?

Considering the impact she had not only on actresses but Hollywood as a whole, I'd say Lillian Gish isn't being remembered the way she should be. Being racist doesn't help though.

Marilyn Miller

Gish was in a racist film but that doesn't make her a racist. And it was one of the most influential films in film history in a positive way. She also was a very great actor.

Miller was as big a Broadway star as there was but even though she starred in a few films she didn't seem to make much of a lasting impression.

Years ago I met Mia Farrow's former housekeeper, a lovely lady from Jamaica. She said that every afternoon Maureen, Mia's mom would stop her from whatever she was doing and ask her to sit and watch her soaps with her. She said she was the nicest person, just very ordinary kind. She said you'd never know she'd been a star in her own right.

Norma Shearer.

Merle was a terrific actress and a rare beauty. She blew Olivier off the water in both THE DIVORCE OF LADY X and WUTHERING HEIGHTS

Not forgotten exactly, but always underrated. Best thing than happened to the fifties. Was there ever a more beautiful man ?

R1 Gish was a racist? Whaaat?

Never mind... I just read her Wikipedia page; she was good friends with the Reagan’s.

Tuesday...WHET her ?

Joel Mc crea hotter than the sun

Maureen O'Sullivan is not forgotten, OP. She will always be known as Jane from Tarzan .

Joel getting Katie all hot and bothered

[quote] She will always be known as Jane from Tarzan .

I'm not sure they know the name of the actress though

FUCK.ME.DADDY.JOHN.PAYNE

harder sir HARDER

Dana Andrews

Got to agree with R6. Just saw Norma Shearer in "Marie Antoinette" (1938) yesterday. Good actress.

Others:

Robert Cummings

George O'Brien:

Oh yeah R18, Dana was HOT

John Payne and Dana Andrews...HOT? Someone needs their prescriptions checked.

Irene Dunne owns this thread.

R9 like R3 said, she personally might not have been a racist but she was the main star in D. W. Griffith's "Birth of a Nation" which was a main reason behind the rebirth of the KKK in the 1910s. She also had never (afaik) denounce the movie or Griffith. There was a big issue a couple of years back when students wanted her name removed from some building.

That said, she was a pioneer in the acting sphere and is definitely not given enough praise for that.

Charlotte "Aunt Eller" Greenwood, for her high kicks.

Robert Walker - good actor, tragic life. Always reminds me a little bit of Spacey, esp in this role -

R21 Marlon you mentally deranged butterface closeted slob...maybe you should stick to your "Wally Cox was the most beautiful thing in the world" and let people with a good eyesight be the judge of male beauty

R26, a.k.a. CLUELESS: Brando was one of the first, if not THE first major motion picture star to admit he had slept with men. In 1976.

And he had 10,000x the charisma and sex appeal that your third-rate 20th Century Fox has-been did.

John Payne was hot very early in hit career. Didn't age well though. Here he is at age 63...

Brando is the #1 movie star of the golden age who deserves to be forgotten

Montgomery Clift. I think he deserved better recognition because he was the better actor, but he has been largely overshadowed by Brando and James Dean.

I am the post in a "forgotten movie stars of the golden age who deserve to be remembered" explaining that every beautiful male star that the other posters like are SHIT because Marlon Brando is EVERYTHING; AND DON'T YOU DARE CONTRADICT ME YOU CLUELESS

John Hodiak

Wasn't her name indeed removed even though she endowed a scholarship and they returned none of the money?

Dixie Dunbar owns this thread.

She will have to share it with Mitzi Mayfair, r34.

Irene Dunne is a delight.

Miriam Hopkins. She put cunty on the map. I also rewatched Marie Antoinette yesterday and Shearer is pretty phenomenal is her last few scenes and is very strong throughout the movie.

Wise cracking dame, and big ol' dyke Lilyan Tashman.

Claire Trevor

Jean Arthur was a huge star and isn't talked about much. She had a great style and seemed very unique

Glenn Ford.

Jeff Chandler - woof!

Jeff Chandler had NO ASS at all. You could iron your shirts on it.

Jean Arthur. My favorite from the Golden Age.

[quote]You could iron your shirts on it.

And I did! (And then I hung them on hangers more wooden than his acting!)

I think R43 has a point.

Ginger Rogers will be remembered for her dancing but she was at her best as a comedic actress One example: Monkey Business 1952

I think Nancy Carroll is largely forgotten these days...I always thought she was very cute. She was certainly a huge star back in her day.

Does Kay Francis count as forgotten, she was great in her melodramas pre Bette Davis becoming queen of Warner’s. Also Ruth chatterton was terrific in ‘dodsworth’ and ‘female’.

Do people talk about Paul Muni? I was surprised how good looking he was and how great ‘I am a fugitive in a chaingang’ was.

Also John Gilbert in the precode ‘downstairs’ seems to be very underrated.

Sylvia Sidney

Nancy Carroll and Clara bow both similar types and I believe both competed for the same roles at paramount died days apart in 1965 at ages 61 and 60 respectively. I always thought that was a strange coincidence.

Gene Tierney. Loved her in The Ghost and Mrs. Muir and Laura.

Joan Blondell, always found her performance in OPENING NIGHT electrifying

I remember Joan Collins in an old interview saying that one of the main objects in her coming to Hollywood was to meet John Payne.

[QUOTE] Gene Tierney

I would say Gene belongs to the "underrated" not the "forgotten". She's remembered at least as one of the great beauties of the screen

[quote] I remember Joan Collins in an old interview saying that one of the main objects in her coming to Hollywood was to FUCK John Payne.

there, corrected for you

I mean, come on

Always struck by how handsome Charles Farrell was but I haven’t seen any of his films to know if he was as handsome in film. John Payne looks good in that classic photo in the boxing ring but the sexiness doesn’t seem to translate into his films.

Either way, if beefcake was a thing back then he could have been the original farrah with a picture like that!

Linda Darnell

I remember Darnell for the horrible way she died, and for ISLAND OF DESIRE, I know she was once considered the most beautiful woman in Hollywood, but I can't really see that

sorry, wrong link

I wonder how the fox lot was with gene tierney and Linda Darnell, didn’t they have a few boyfriends in common namely Howard Hughes.

Almost all of those golden age stars are forgotten. I think you'd be surprised to see how few remember Mae West. Hell, every drag queen in America used to do Mae East or whatever.

I can't believe Norma is getting positive feedback on DL. She seems to be the actress old queens love to hate.

I also recommend The Student Prince of Old Heidelberg, Private Lives and Escape.

Darnell is wonderful in Unfaithfully Yours and Letter to Three Wives. She's especially beautiful in the former.

Linda Darnell was the first Celebrity Roast.

[quote] John Payne looks good in that classic photo in the boxing ring but the sexiness doesn’t seem to translate into his films.

Well....

Norma at the end of Marie Antoinette was truly moving.

I had to do a double take during one movie I saw, ‘the ox-bow incident’ the actor looked so much like Tyrone power but I knew he was not in this movie.

It turned out to be a little known actor called William Eythe who I guess was the go-to actor of Tyrone was too busy.

Here he is with Vincent price looking like Tyrone.

Zanuck kicked Eythe to the curb for homosexual "indiscretions." A few Bs at Columbia, and then a quick appointment with Mr. Death.

Zanuck also ran the studio that made John Payne shave his chest.

[quote] Zanuck also ran the studio that made John Payne shave his chest.

=Zanuck was worst than Hitler

I've always had a thing for Lew Ayres. He's got some great boxing and swim suit photos. Yes I like them on the slight side.

His performance in Holiday as Kate's alcoholic gay brother is wonderful.

Brian Aherne was very sexy in Sylvia Scarlett

R72 I agree. he looked really modern and sexy in ‘merrily we live’ as well.

Joseph Cotten, George Sanders, Claude Rains, Peter Lorre, , Charles Bickford, William Powell Douglas Fairbanks Sr-Douglas Fairbanks Jr, Wallace Beery You already mentioned Irene Dunne-Jean Arthur(one of my favorites), Myrna Loy, Mary Astor, Ethel Barrymore, Paulette Goddard

Another vote for Jean Arthur....

Belle Poitrine

is Joseph Cotten forgotten ? Myrna Loy was awesome in a movie with leslie Howard I saw recently...THE ANIMAL KINGDOM.she was playing an unconspicuous evil bitch opposite good gal Ann Harding. Ann deserves to be on this thread too

Ann with the divine Gary Cooper in Peter Ibbetson

Walter Huston may be known today largely for being John Huston's father but he was a tremendous actor. My favorite is "Dodsworth", but see also "Rain" and "Treasure of the Sierra Madre", plus a slew of 1930s melodramas and crime movies -- every performance he ever gave was riveting.

OP, what makes Maureen O'Sullivan's husband John Farrow a "slime bag"?

One went to see *a Bette Davis movie* or a *Joan Crawford movie*, OP. One didn't go see *a Maureen O'Sullivan movie*.

R80, let's just say : "children - and I would add "grandchildren" in this case -are a map of their parents"...for more info, read Ava's autobio, Mia's memoir, Tab Hunter confidential : the making of a movie star etc

[quote] One went to see *a Bette Davis movie* or a *Joan Crawford movie*, OP. One didn't go see *a Maureen O'Sullivan movie*.

R81 = not Irish

Jeanne Eagels, stunning (though clearly on drugs, which may have enhanced her performance) in the original "The Letter". She received a posthumous Oscar nod (the first) for this.

I didn't say that she wasn't a movie star, r83, but her presence in a movie didn't have them lining up at the box office. She's a lovely, skilled part of the whole, but never the dynamic centerpiece.

R81 = Woody Allen

What was the name of the actress who lost the supporting oscar in 1940 ? the one who made all the fuss about not being nominated in the "lead actress" category ? anyone remembers ? never mind.

Susan Peters was a very good actress and should have had a long career, but unfortunately was paralyzed in a hunting accident in the mid-1940s; after that, she was resigned to roles in which she could perform in a wheelchair. She eventually ended up essentially killing herself by self-induced starvation, which caused her organs to shut down. Her life story is just heartbreaking. She gave great performances in "Tish" and "Random Harvest," and was also very likable in the campy comedy "Keep Your Powder Dry" with Lana Turner and Hedy Lamarr. She earned an Academy Award nomination for "Random Harvest." She's never really discussed in conversations revolving around old movie stars.

I love hunting accidents.

beautiful Anna Maria "Pier" Pierangeli died of a drug response to painkillers following a plane crash in which she had her pelvis and both legs crushed. She had just been cast in the Godfather

Sonja Henie's name doesn't come up too much, but I've always thought her films were thoroughly enjoyable. I don't think they're shown very often.

Whoooo, r91???

Oh, yes, Belita is soooo much more famous than Sonja Henie...

Marsha Hunt

Just saw the documentary on the still with us Ms. Marsha Hunt on Amazon Prime. Wonderful lady and activist!

R58, Charles Farrell was very handsome in early 1930s movies, but he started looking seedy not long after. Once you’ve seen him play the father on My Little Margie it’s kind of hard to see him any other way.

R95, I saw that too! She sounded like a truly great person.

Another vote here for Joel McCrea, Dana Andrews, Lew Ayres, Charles Farrell and Nancy Carroll.

R12, that is Joel McCrea's son at your link.

Eleanor Powell. Arguably a better tap dancer than Fred Astaire.

Charles Farrell fixed up his voice issues after a little while in talkies, but unlike his roles his silent pictures, he could only really play an East Coast Ivy League type. Whereas previously he'd played French, Italian, Russian, etc.

He was super hot, though. I adore his chemistry with Janet Gaynor.

Marsha Hunt is still alive and 103. Really good actress and fascinating life.

Fredric March, though he seems to be getting more popular in the (very niche) classic movie fandom these days.

Deanna Durbin (still being rediscovered on youtube, many views), Dana Andrews, John Payne, Joel McCrea, Jean Arthur, Judy Holliday, Irene Dunne, John Garfield (did all the stuff Marlon Brando did before he did and with good diction), Fredric March (so different and good from role to role), Miriam Hopkins (even though Bette Davis hated working with her, she still couldn't deny her great talent).

I disagree R96, he was still handsome in the late 30s and became a silver fox in the 1940s. Like so many others, he fell afoul of Zanuck, and he and Gaynor were shitcanned when Fox merged with 20th Century.

William Holden

William Holden is remembered for quite a number of pictures, and of course for his unfortunate death.

Patric Knowles

Holden is remembered for I Love Lucy.

Marie Dressler

That was William Holdens peak moment R105. A divinely handsome and sexy man. Sigh.

I sincerely hope my true love, the atheist liberal and closeted bisexual Burt Lancaster, is never forgotten.

R101 I’m not that familiar with her but it seems Marsha Hunt has always been a big supporter of progressive politics, including early support of gay marriage. From her Wikipedia page :

[quote] In 2013, Hunt debuted a clip of a song she wrote 40 years earlier titled "Here's to All Who Love" about love and same-sex marriage.[31] Sung by Glee star Bill A. Jones, the clip immediately went viral.[31] It was featured in Marsha Hunt's Sweet Adversity, a documentary about her life.[35] The documentary debuted at the Palm Springs and Santa Barbara International Film Festivals in January 2015.[4]

She also stood her ground during the Hollywood blacklist era.

As already mentioned above, ravishing Kay Francis was once Queen of the Warner Bros lot, until Jack Warner soured on her and deliberately derailed her career. She had seen how lower tier actress Bette Davis won better roles after walking out of her contract, so she tried to do the same, but the plot backfired and an angry Jack Warner purposely planted fake stories about her background and age, and ordered his writers to liberally sprinkle her dialogues with Ls and Rs, which rhotic-impaired Miss Francis had trouble pronouncing. Soon she was demoted to the B unit, until she was unceremoniously dumped and left to work independently in supporting roles for which ever studio would have her. She finally landed a multi-picture contract with Monogram Pictures, the poorest of the Poverty Row studios, and despite having regained her leading lady status, Monogram had little money to promote her pictures.

Lupe Velez

Carmen Miranda

Betty Grable

And Lupe got to play with Gary Cooper’s 10 inch cock!!!

[quote]Soon she was demoted to the B unit, until she was unceremoniously dumped and left to work independently in supporting roles...

While still quite beautiful Kay played Deanna Durbin's mother in 1940s "It's a Date" where both mother and daughter vie for the same man (Walter Pidgeon). It was a big hit.

It was even remade at MGM in 1950 as "Nancy Goes to Rio" with Ann Sothern and Jane Powell both trying to woo Barry Sullivan. Go figure!

Joe Pasternak had helped make Deanna a star at Universal, and when he went to MGM, he was tasked with sopranos Jane Powell and Kathryn Grayson to make them into MGM's version of Deanna. Of course, Powell was an expert dancer, too. But yes, I liked Kay Francis. "Trouble in Paradise" is fantastic, as is "One Way Passage" with William Powell, among some of her other films.

Jon Hall in 1937's The Hurricane is the primest USDA beef you'll see on screen.

R7 We devoted 269 posts to this faker before—

Glad to see a few Lew Ayres fans here. Not only a fine actor, he was also an admirable man -- per Wikidpedia:

[quote] In March 1942, Ayres was identified as a 4E conscientious objector and sent to a CO camp. As expected, the announcement that a Hollywood actor objected to the war was a major source of public outcry and debate. Within a month it was determined that he had initially requested to be A-O-1, so that he could serve as a non-combat medic. However, the military's policy that servicemen cannot request, or be guaranteed, where they will serve, forced him to request a 4E status. The U.S. military confirmed that they would place him as a medic and in April 1942, his status was changed. He enlisted in the United States Army on May 18, 1942. He served as a first aid instructor in the United States Army before requesting a drop in rank in order to serve as a medic and chaplain's assistant in the Pacific. He was one of 16 medics who arrived under fire during the invasion of Leyte to set up evacuation hospitals, and there he provided care to soldiers and civilians in the Philippines and New Guinea. He donated all the money he had earned as a serviceman to the American Red Cross. Serving for three and a half years in the Medical Corps, he was awarded three battle stars. After the war, he resumed his career and made scores of movies, but never reached the peak of his early Hollywood stardom.

R118 = Laurence Olivier. "Larry, you cunt, stop bothering us, you were wiped off the screen by ALL of your leading ladies, suck it up! Merle sends it right up your arse. Viv"

You mean wavishing Kay Fwancis, r113. One of my favorites, r115....

Now I'm on a Jane kick. Just watched this. Gene Nelson was as fearless as Gene Kelly. Should this number be cancelled?

Jane Powell and Gene Nelson had an affair during that film. They were supposed to get married, divorced their spouses, then Gene changed his mind. Fabulous dancer, and Jane was great, too, of course, having danced with and kept up just fine with Fred Astaire in "Royal Wedding". Nelson should have been a much bigger star. As for the stuff on their faces, it's unfortunate, but Judy Garland, Mickey Rooney, Fred Astaire and others actually put on blackface. I don't think they meant disrespect back then, but times change. They have a mini-documentary about it on TCM which plays sometimes when they have breaks between their films. The African-American historian film professor, who hosts the SIlent movies they show, doesn't think they should be canceled, but as history, should be acknowledged for how they now come across.

Jane was a superb singer, she performs "Musetta's Waltz" in "Nancy Goes to Rio" (as did Deanna in the original), and she's wonderful.

Love both Deanna and Jane! Also love Irene Dunne, Jeanette McDonald, Grace Moore, Ann Blyth and Julie Andrews, as far as star movie sopranos. Not so much Kathryn Grayson, though she's probably at her best playing a shrew in "Kiss Me, Kate".

Also not too fond of Kitty Carlisle's attempt of the "Il Trovatore" Leonora in "A Night at the Opera", though she was pretty.

Gene Nelson is in my mind the best star who never got the fame and roles he deserved. Gene Kelly probably worked hard to stop him from being competition. But Nelson was a much more athletic and daring dancer than Kelly.

Watch the video below.

Jane: lovely, Elizabeth: stunning, Stack: block of wood

HEY !!! Bobby Stack was HOTTER THAN HOT

You wouldn't really know, would you, Ava?

Winkie Burtress was amazing. I loved all the circus pictures she did.

R77, hopefully. Joseph Cotton was a raging homophobe. Quoting Don Bachardy:

"We were the only male couple in the whole party — the only two men together. Of course, there were people who were deeply shocked, but didn’t show it. The only person who made a comment that he intended me to hear was Joseph Cotten, who said he deplored “half men.” He said it with a real professional actor’s ability, to be sure that I would hear it but not Chris."

[quote] Jean Arthur. My favorite from the Golden Age.

Loved her with Charles Boyer in this film:

r12 Even as a very young kid I had a crush on him....He was a gorgeous man

R127 Not only was Gene Nelson a better all-around athlete than Gene Kelly as that gymnastic and boxing clip shows, he had a better singing voice, a very nice screen presence, was a good actor (TCM film noir showed one these in which he was quite good in a dramatic role), plus also was a professional figurer skater, who skated with Sonja Henie! Oh, and he also starred on Broadway in FOLLIES!!!!

figure skater, correction

Miss Deanna Durbin had an amazing voice, too

Absolutely! She was the highest paid star in America a couple of years before she retired! Huge star, beloved by millions around the world before she out Garboed Greta Garbo and move to France and lived to her 90s.

R130 well...I didn't get laid, but he sure didn't get that Oscar either

Deanna Durbin, Kathryn Grayson, Jane Powell… uggh. Those shrieking voices are torture.

Deanna Durbin "shrieking?" I think not

Yes, stick to rap when you have your dance at your silver high school reunion.

Frances Farmer isn't spoken about with the reverence she deserves.

R143 = Veronica Lake

Durbin's vocal teacher was in the original "Girl of the Golden West" at the Met, so Deanna had a direct link to Puccini! Fabulous voice. She was Winston Churchill's and Anne Frank's favorite movie star, and Angela Lansbury among many others admired her. Julie Andrews had what was considered a disaster of a screen test meant for Deanna's producer Joe Pasternak when Andrews was a pre-teen or teenage and aspiring to be another Deanna in British films.

But did he skate with Belita, r135???

"Suspense" is a great film noir with ice skating in it. Sexy daddy Eddie Muller showed it one night on TCM's Noir Alley.

Lovely lady...

Deanna's first kiss was with heavenly Robert Stack

R114 ahem...11" actually. Lupe got to play with Gary Cooper's 11 inches cock

[quote]R143 Frances Farmer isn't spoken about with the reverence she deserves.

She had a unique authority. Very grounded. And that beautiful low voice.

[quote] Very grounded.

Yep, that was our Frances. Solid, stable and down to earth

I mean her body placement. She was solid.

[quote]Lupe got to play with Gary Cooper's 11 inches cock

Yeah, but she later reported it smelled like Andy Lawlor!

I looked up the definition of "eyefucking" , and I found this...

One thing that betrays nervous actors is how they lean on things for support, don’t know what to do with their hands, etc. They’re quavery, as if the don’t want to be looked at. But from what I’ve seen Frances Farmer didn’t show that type of physical inhibition.

wonder where Tyrone's attention goes to ? seems to be directed downward rather than to Gene's

John likes what he sees..

" Ty, be a good boy and swallow now"

Sorry. - much better print of r156

Is it me or is George Sanders exactly the same in every.single.role ?

He is. Then he died.

But for any little Baby Gays who don’t know much about St. Frances, this is her story.

Only on Lifetime.

R96, you need to do a little research on Charles Farrell. I will admit he wasn't the same young and handsome fellow in My Little Margie but he was still handsome and never seedy. He was a major player in the growth of Palm Springs and Mayor from 1947 to 1955. Palm Springs may be a little seedy now but not back then.

isn't she the one who was forced to eat her own feces at the asylum ?

joan : "You were you married for how many years to Bob ? "

Jane :"23 years"

Joan : "that's a long time.And before that you had a big romance with John Payne, so you had a good time too"

Jane : " ...YEAH"

Joan: " YEAH ! "

lucky bitch

Margaret Sullivan. She was one of the finest actresses of the 1930s and 1940s.

I imagine John payne's dick would be long , girthy and very hard, almost painfully hard. Really throbbing, and quite warm/hot, like some dicks are.

Wow Margaret Sullivan really looked like Margaret Sullavan. What was she in ?

Margaret Sullivan was the poor man’s Margaret Sallavan.

It’s a sad story.

(r) According to his late daughter, actress Julie Payne when responding to a question from writer, Jim Bacon, her father, John Payne, was 99% hetero, but was never adverse to letting a guy suck his formidable cock. Bacon loved to share that information when he'd had a few too many at Trader Vic's in Los Angeles.

Fredi Washington, star of the original Imitation of Life. Very fair-skinned, but very proudly "black", she refused to "pass" in order to get better and more mainstream roles. Became a quite vocal civil rights activist in her later years.

Swimwear at the time resembled granny panties.

Sorry not sorry.

yes, but somewhat see-through -- and such a great chest!

Allan Jones - Jeanette MacDonald's best singing co-star and the sexiest.

R169 yes. Margaret Sullivan, although one of the finest dramatic actresses of her generation, was always in competition with Margaret Sullavan, and finally comitted suicide at only 35. She left a suicide note : "Margaret Sullavan, you bitch, it's all your fault". heartbreaking

R173 did you say chest ?

or "LEGS" ?

[quote] John Payne, was 99% hetero, but was never adverse to letting a guy suck his formidable cock

John Payne is definitely my new favorite actor. Give him a fucking posthumous oscar already

Plus he could sing! And he also successfully defended Kris Kringle in the Christmas classic "Miracle on 34th Street"! Character's name was Fred Gailey, too! So delectable!

R179 he was hotter than a million suns in MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET. also in the 40's version of THE GIFT OF LOVE originating the part taken by DL fave Robert Stack in the Bacall version

[quote]R177 Margaret Sullivan, although one of the finest dramatic actresses of her generation, was always in competition with Margaret Sullavan, and finally comitted suicide at only 35. She left a suicide note : "Margaret Sullavan, you bitch, it's all your fault". heartbreaking

Who was so tragic was that contract negotiations would often get very advanced before producers realized they were hiring Sullivan instead of Sullavan.

She was sometimes paid off, sure, but it was nothing like getting to actually perform the roles.

Counseled to change her name professionally by Hedda Hopper, she vowed in print, “I was born Margaret Sullivan and I will die Margaret Sullivan!”

Well, she got her wish.

R181 that's not the whole story. Upon hearing of her death, Margaret Sullavan said "who?"

bitch.

Where does Maureen O'Sullavan fit in?

Jane Greer

the only thing I remember about MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET is a scene where John Payne and Edmung Gwen are sharing a bedroom. Ed is in a short nightgown, and John a more masc pajama. it's very shadowy and sexy. At the end of the scene, as Santa lifts his legs to put them under the sheets, John says with fuck-me eyes " I'm about to discover if Santa sleeps with his whiskers outside, or in" and drops his sleepers. ( unfortunately you don't get to see his feet) the great thing about John, is he always has bags under his eyes that say, "I fucked all night last night".

I didn't want to be Natalie Wood, I wanted to be Edmund Gwen, for that scene only

The so called Golden Age is tawdry and brassy.

R183 Maureen O'Sullavan changed her name to Maureen O'Hara shortly after arriving in Hollywood and enjoyed a successful career under that name, even if to this day , most people think that she was the mother of Mia Farrow

[quote]R182 that's not the whole story. Upon hearing of her death, Margaret Sullavan said, "Who?" Bitch.

Oh, that was just one final slap across the grave. I read the cruel and capricious Sullavan often sent Sullivan her used director chairs from various sets, which of course had SULLAVAN stenciled across the back.

This growing collection eventually proved the other actress’ undoing and she was finally found dead on a heap of them she’d set fire to!

The OP says the original Maureen married "a slime bag".

Just how insane, obsessed and slimy was this Catholic slime bag?

Well Ronan R189, you KNOW how

TITANIC saved Gloria Stuart from being a forgotten film star.

I remember she wrote in her autobiography, “I always had one hundred percent confidence in my looks,” and I thought, “Wow, that must be nice.”

That was simply her experience.

Anna Magnani, perhaps the most forgotten Oscar-winning best actress, in America at least (but not Italy).

THANK YOU R192

R192, like the OP, seems to have omniscience and a secret source of supportive data to know who is "forgotten."

Considering a majority of Americans probably don't know the name of the current Vice President of the United States.

Falconetti

Dolores del Rio, I never knew of her until I read Maria Riva's memoir of Dietrich. Dietrich described del Rio as the most beautiful woman in Hollywood.

We talked about her upthread. Practically the only Hollywood film of note she made was FLYING DOWN TO RIO. So she really does belong in this thread!

R196, That bitch!

If anyone’s a fan:

Edna Mae Oliver

Del Rio and Félix??? Eran hussies baratos y les hice la vida un infierno!

Martita!

Ida Lupino...How could we forget her role as the Warden in Women in Chains in the 70s with Jessica Walter

Well, if we're going with character actresses, you can't beat Aline MacMahon...

Vera Ralston (née Hrubá)

Vera Miles (née Ralston)

[quote]R203 Ida Lupino...How could we forget her role as the Warden in Women in Chains in the 70s with Jessica Walter

Now we’re really stretching it.

No one’s forgotten Ms. Lupino. She’s often cited as both an actress and a director.

Yeah this is descending into just another - name your favorite actor from the classic era.

More obscure ones please…

Brandon De Wilde.

Robert Williams --his superb comic performance practically stole "Platinum Blonde" from Jean Harlow, but he died a few days after premiere from complications from operations for appendicitis. Very sad, as he could have been one of the great comedic leading men.

209 posts and no mention of the greatest underrated actress of all time.... Maria Montez!

Turhan Bey!

Rochelle Hudson

Judy Holliday. Can't really say she's forgotten as a name but so few now are familiar with her extraodinary talents at light comedy.

Chester Morris. He went from Academy Award nominee and leading man opposite Norma Shearer and Jean Harlow, to B-movie serials and Boston Blackie. It was a quick fall from the top.

^ extraordinary

R185 I wonder if John let Edmund Gwenn suck him off! Harder, Santa, faster!!

Dennis Morgan was so delicious in Christmas in Connecticut, though he was a boozehound and his looks faded shortly afterwards

Dennis Morgan was considered an asset at Warners where he could sing beautifully, do comedy with Jack Carson and act well enough in dramas alongside Bette Davis and Olivia de Havilland, among others.

Dennis Morgan was considered an asset at Warners because he was cheap and Jack L Warner said he will not put TWO stars in one picture.

The audience has to pay to see two pictures!

Jack L Warner was more suited to selling sausages.

Lee Tracy. Desi Arnez said Tracy got into trouble for peeing off a balcony onto some Mexican soldiers, but others dispute the story.

I have an inscribed photo of him to Isabel Jewel's parents. I used to collect Hollywood posters and photos.

R223 We haven't forgotten Judy Holliday

Well, r214, Sothern had 10 Maisie films. They weren't grade A, but they were popular.

Does Isabel Jewel deserve to be remembered, r220?

R222 Just watched the first "Maisie" film today on TCM. Sothern was great, very appealing character she played. You can see how audiences would ask for more. Though she would have a new leading man every new film it seems.

Kay Kendall..UK born actress who died from leukemia at 33.

Kay Kendall could best be described as...delicious.

"Genevieve" is a delightful film!

How about Stewart Granger? I don't see him mentioned much around here. I think he was super handsome!

Kay “Goomah” Kendall broke up Rex Harrison’s marriage to Lili Palmer.

Then she died.

R228, I've had a crush on him for years

Van Johnson, Golden Age Queen

The very handsome (and gay!) Michael Whalen

Colleen Moore

John Boles, hot hunk with pretty feet

Good grief, R234! He was my mom's big crush from her adolescence. I never understood what she saw in him and much preferred her secondary heartthrob, Lewis Stone (Andy Hardy's dad the Judge) -- now there was a fine looking man!

Geraldine Fitzgerald. Pictured here with Bette Davis.

See how the "star" gets to wear the checkered jacket, which must have been mesmerizing on a black and white movie screen. The supporting actress had to struggle to be noticed.

Geraldine Fitzgerald was a great actress

R237.......her singing was another matter.

John Boles actually had a really good legit singing voice, playing the Red Shadow in the first sound film of "The Desert Song".

John Boles was, if possible, even more wooden than DL fave John Gavin or Guy Madison.

Bole is very good in "Craig's Wife" opposite DL fave Roz Russell, later remade as "Harriet Craig" with Joan Crawford. He was very good-looking and had a beautiful voice. Was just checking out some clips from "Desert Song" which were staged in 1929 before most innovations like a staged play. But he got better with more screen experience and better direction.

[quote] Kay “Goomah” Kendall

What do you mean 'Goomah'? Is that a lover's pet name?

Boles, that is.

I don't understand why Dolores Gray is not a bigger gay icon. She is the incarnation of camp.

Ramon Novarro

R223 Isabel Jewels derserves to be remember for SWEET KILL ( THE AROUSERS) if nothing else. Curtis hanson first movie, with a mesmerizing Tab Hunter as the serial killer

Lots of pics of sexy John Payne in this thread, but the one at R16 is John Garfield.

John Garfield is so good in Four Daughters, his debut. I hated that the family just went on as if everything was back to normal after his death. The victory of the petit bourgeoisie. Fuck you and your swinging gate, Jeffrey Lynn!

Jack Carson owns this thread. One of the most versatile actors everywhere. He could do every sort of role - comedy, drama, musicals - and do it all really well.

Just saw him in THE HARD WAY. He's heartbreaking as a sap tossed aside by wife Joan Leslie on her ride to he top. Hi character commits suicide.

He was Warner's most reliable actor. It's an inside joke in IT'S A GREAT FEELING that nobody on the Warner lot likes him or wants to work with him, when in actuality he was the best liked guy on the lot, and everybody loved working with him. He coached Doris Day in her first film ROMANCE ON THE HIGH SEAS, and they had an affair that ended well - becoming very close, lifelong friends. In a rare loan out , to MGM for DANGEROUS WHEN WET, star Esther Williams raved about him and what a swell guy he was.

R247 No no Hunty, it IS sexy Johnny Payne, same shooting, same outfit, only different pose from the iconic "come suck Daddy off" one. Here's another

and another...to DIE for

John in gear

yummmmmmmmmmm

mmmmmmmmmm feet...

I think she'd rather be remembered for GWTW, r246.

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOMINATED IN THE LEADING ACTRESS CATEGORY

John Payne’s boxing shoot is one of the gayest things I have ever seen in my decades of being a classic movies tragic

R249 one of the more memorable moments from an old Johnny Carson show was when guest Dick Shawn asked Johnny if he'd like to hear his Jack Carson impersonation. It was really very accurate, I couldn't believe someone would practice such a thing and get it right. I've looked around to see if there is a clip available but it is lost in the archives,

R257 you haven't seen Robert Stack at the bathhouse in THE BULLFIGHTER AND THE LADY then

Dolores Gray's numbers are lots of fun, but she had such a sumptuous, glorious huge voice (reputed to be even louder than Merman's) but with a creamy quality as well, that her talent was undeniable. Of course, she did have a female impersonator who created a persona based on her, and the result was Lypsinka. Interesting fact about Dolores: she was shot when she was a kid in Chicago as part of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and apparently the bullet couldn't be removed; it was apparently somewhat near her lungs -- perhaps that gave her extra iron lung power! What a voice!

R260 Dolores Gray did a guest appearance on Dr. Who.

Dolores did graduate RADA around the time she made a huge hit in "Annie Get Your Gun", so she was popular in Britain for many years.

Dolores get your gun...

Delores was in England in 1988-9 doing "I'm Still Here" in the revival of Follies starring Mrs. Emma Peel. She was a delight, btw.

I saw her in an off Broadway play about money with Helen Gallagher at the Promenade. She seemed very frail and frightened throughout. Not at all like somebody who would have kicked Michael Kidd in the balls during the rehearsal of a Broadway musical.

One of my favorite performances in a movie is May Robson in Capra's Lady For a Day in which she was as deserving of an Oscar as anyone. I was never able to watch the remake. I simply couldn't watch Davis in the role at that point in her career after Robson. Then she plays Aunt Polly in Selznick's Tom Sawyer and Hepburn's rich Connecticut aunt in Bringing up Baby. A remarkable actor.

Miss Alice Faye

All of them.

They all deserve to be remembered.

That’s what TCM is for.

[quote]R242 What do you mean 'Goomah'? Is that a lover's pet name?

Goomah is Eyetalian American for mistress. That sidepiece whore Kay Kendall was fucking Rex Harrison while he was still married to darling Lilli Palmer… the mother of his CHILDREN.

So? Sexy Rexy would have cheated on Lilli anyway. That’s what he did. That’s what they all did.

^ Lilli was a tough cookie. She was a tough as Marlene. She worked as a taxi-dancer.

I'm sure she was using Rex as a stepping stone. She landed Gary Cooper in her 2nd Hollywood role.

The John Payne troll should start his own thread. Or hers. My gawd, he looks tired in R158's photo, and that was taken in 1946.

Lilli was relieved to get rid of Harrison. So it was no sacrifice for her. Also Rex called his sons cunts to their faces. To be fair he called everyone a cunt. I believe he even called Julie a cunt in front of the My Fair Lady cast in rehearsals because she wasn't getting the role and he threatened to quit(people have said he called her bitch but I doubt that. Cunt was his favorite word.) That was when Hart knew they were seriously in trouble and took a weekend to spoon feed the role to her with every line reading and inflection. After that Kitty Carlyle said she heard Moss in Julie's performance but it eventually became her own. Hart said that Andrews had the strength of the British empire in her and this was she was still 20.

Lilli was a cunt to Tab during the shooting of "the pleasure of his company", so she deserved to die in a grease fire instead of Linda Darnell, BUT she sais something nice: When she first arrived in England, she was asked to take a screen test by Korda. At the studio, she saw a girl who was also being tested that day. The flower-like beauty of the girl was so extraordiary, that just watching her turn her head from left to right was worth a ticket. She stopped dead in her track and watched, as did everyone else. The girl was someone named Vivian Hartley.

ANNA.MAY.WONG

I thought Anna May Wong was in that awful Eskimo movie in 1960 with Anthony Quinn and Peter O'Toole.

But I may be wrong on that point.

Helen Twelvetrees!

^ her name is bizarre.

Wheeler and Woolsey are practically forgotten now although their films started being rerun on AMC in the 1980's and later were seen quite a bit on TCM. They were at RKO for nearly a decade, but Woolsey died. I don't think they'd have lasted past the war years as their comedy style annoyed the critics and didn't seem to change with the times. They do have a cult following though, and most of their films ended up in two different DVD collections, the rest either in the public domain or released on the Warner Archive in single discs. They were at their height in 1934 with "Hips Hips Hooray", "Kentucky Kernels" and "Cockeyed Cavaliers" where they sang a song that spoofed "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?"

Another vote for Joan Blondell. Also, Frederic March.

Joan Blondell, Sylvia Sidney and Geraldine Fitzgerald are just three of the former leading stars who are probably better known for character performances by non-classic movie fans. Joan is regarded for character roles that ended with "Grease" and "The Champ", while Sylvia is that cranky old social services worker with the slit throat in "Beetlejuice" and the senile old lady who helped save the world with her Slim Whitman records in "Mars Attacks!" as well as dozens of other similar parts in the last 20 years of her life. Geraldine was the domineering grandmother in the two "Arthur" movies and had two parts on "Golden Girls". To think of Joan in all those delightful programmers at Warners, Sylvia in the Shelley Winters role of the girl who drowned in "An American Tragedy" and Geraldine as the love starved Isabelle in "Wuthering Heights" is a far world from their later old lady parts.

Anna May Wong is so forgotten she will be featured on a quarter sometime in the next 2 years.

Glad someone mentioned Aline MacMahon. She always seemed a little older, and wiser, and funnier than any lead she supported. Makes me think of Eve Arden in Anatomy of a Murder, and Patricia Neal in In Harms Way. An older woman with guts and humor. This all leads us to the copious attention Joan Blondell is receiving. I always think of her pouring drinks in that Frank Tashlin movie.

[quote]R273 Lilli was relieved to get rid of Harrison. So it was no sacrifice for her. Also Rex called his sons cunts to their faces.

Although autobiographies of course can’t always be trusted, i thought I remembered that in Palmer’s (“Change Lobsters and Dance”) she’s very sad that her marriage is ending.

Carol Matthau writes in “Among the Porcupines” that Palmer was disturbed when Kendall crashed a party at her and Harrison’s house in Portofino, and pulled the author aside to interrogate her about this mistress.

It’s not like Palmer just said, “Oh thank you, PLEASE TAKE HIM!”

Rex knew that Kay was dying but didn’t tell her because they rolled like that. Sonja Henie’s husband did the same thing.

When Blondell went into Gamma Rays, she required less slatternly costumes. One didn't want to see Miss Joan Blondell in Sada's old rags.

Bob Hope. Perhaps the biggest star who's dropped from the public consciousness.

R277 I liked her in "Millie" a tawdry melodrama with violence.

Nelson Eddy and Jeanette Macdonald

Does Anne Shirley deserve to be remembered?

"The Oomph Girl" Ann Sheridan. Miss Sheridan is not nearly as well remembered as her fellow WW2-era pin-up queens, Betty Grable and Rita Hayworth, but for a time she was one of Warner Bros' most popular stars.

Sheridan hated the Oomph moniker. She said it was the sound a fat man makes when he sits down.

Ricardo Cortez - top-billed above Garbo in her first Hollywood film, starred in quite a few silents, then continued into sound films, first as leading man, eventually playing villains. He's great in "Symphony of Six Million" about a doctor brought up poor on the Lower East Side whose brother urges him to give up treating poor people and instead treat rich people petty problems in his practice. featuring Irene Dunne, kind of miscast for being a bit too goyische as Jewish girl. TCM had a whole Ricardo Cortez day a few months ago.

Cortez was originally Jacob Krantz from Viennna, but studio changed his name to make it more Latin. Very good actor, good-looking in a Fredric March manner with a fine speaking voice, and later switched to directing. His brother Stanley Cortez was a well-known cinematographer who did "Night of the Hunter", 'Magnificent Ambersons", etc.

Ricardo Cortez starred in the original "Maltese Falcon" too.

Colleen Moore was the "Moore" in "Merrill Lynch, Pierce. Fenner Smith and Moore" Very Good Actress but ever better Financial Advisor. Alot of her early films were destroyed!!

[quote] Very Good Actress but ever better Financial Advisor

I want Colleen Moore’s doll house.

(If she was Republican it would have to be fumigated, however.)

R296 WHAAATTT ??? OMG !!!! you , sir (or lady, or both) win THE THREAD'S KEY

Thank You for reminding me OP. I took my 2 granddaughters there b4 Covid to see the dollhouse. I LOVE Chicago(in the summer). My GD Annabel kept telling me "You have to buy that Pop-Pop...FOR ME"!!

if your granddaughter wants this house, she'll have to take it from my cold dead hands

I think it's in the Harrison biography where Lilli encouraged the divorce so that Kay would not be alone and then would marry Harrison again after Kay's death but she said she really had no intention to. I don't think any spouse who truly loved their partner would go through with that ruse.

Welcome to my home.

Kay was best friends with Viv and Betty. in the 50's they were a fixture of London's night scene

I remember reading Colleen's book in the '70s and shortly after finishing it, PBS showed Ella Cinders. No Norma Desmond, she.

[quote]R300 I think it's in the Harrison biography where Lilli encouraged the divorce so that Kay would not be alone and then would marry Harrison again after Kay's death but she said she really had no intention to.

She only agreed to those terms because Harrison was frozen with indecision and someone had to be an adult.

He was the one who said he’d only divorce and take care of the ill Kay if Palmer agreed to remarry him, afterwards. Can you imagine? The gall!

Palmer gave him the side eye and said okay, but she knew, practically speaking, it would never end up that way. Especially as years passed.

Lilli as Sarah

Rex had screwed up his previous time in Hollywood by causing actress Carole Landis to commit suicide over him. Not a nice man, and he called Julie Andrews, all of 20 or 21, lots of curses when she was having a hard time with the acting for a while during "My Fair Lady" rehearsals.

I’m now sure a picture of the fairy bed in Colleen Moore’s doll house turned me gay as a child.

A powerful recruitment tool… if not THE most powerful.

R307 to each his own, what turned me gay as a teenager was this

Colleen in Flaming Youth

George O'brien was so beautiful

In Harrison’s autobiography he called Landis “a girl who’d made a few films,” which was ungracious. She wasn’t a major star but she was a working actress.

didn't all his wives die young/kill themselves ? He was toxicity incarnate. Who was the wife who drunk a bottle of ammonia and walk through a glass panel ?

That one from “Picnic at Hanging Rock.” Rachel Roberts.

DRANK AND WALKED;;;OH DEARING MYSELF

Once Roberts was drunk at a publicity event and felt she wasn’t getting enough attention. She then jumped up on a table, hiked up her dress, and yelled, “Why don’t you all take pictures of my pussy!”

Not her finest moment. (Or was it?)

R300 that’s like “wings of the dove”, isn’t it?

[quote] Once Roberts was drunk at a publicity event and felt she wasn’t getting enough attention. She then jumped up on a table, hiked up her dress, and yelled, “Why don’t you all take pictures of my pussy!”

what's wrong with that, is there anything else to show-business ?

Roberts was out of hand during the filming of "Doctor Dolittle" and the production, dealing with horrible weather, unruly animals and difficult during normal times Rex Harrison, as recounted in a book about the film, touted as a huge roadshow attraction, but a big flop.

Rachel Roberts in Doctors' Wives

Rex and his entourage treated Geoffrey Holder abominably on the set of DD, hurling insults and racial slurs at him every day on the set.

I can tell that you Americans love being bitchy about Rex.

Louis Jean Heydt - handsome blond in just about every other movie ever made in Classic Hollywood.

Louis Jean Heydt - handsome blond in just about every other movie ever made in Classic Hollywood.

He’s cute r323...the first I ever heard about him.

What about fellow blond hunk John Erickson?

Scott Brady ... just seemed to epitomize masculinity.

I'm watching Geraldine Fitzgerald on Dick Cavett...

There was something odd about her private life

John Ericson was gorgeous and posed for Playgirl in the 70s

I'm sure she's been mentioned before but even so I'll mention her again: Lizabeth Scott.

Her friends called her Lip-a-lot Scott.

Lizabeth Scott - my favorite Golden Age dyke!

Kay Francis was rumored to have had a sapphic fling with Carole Landis while making "Four Jills in a Jeep" (1944). Co-star Phil Silvers snarked, "Kay Francis was shown falling in love with an officer. This was a tribute to her acting skill, because she had very little interest in men."

Kay and Carole at Carole' wedding.

Landis also slammed clams with Jacqueline Sussan when they did some show together before the latter turned to writing.

SNAFU

Eric Blore Victor Moore

Good one R314! BWAHAHAHAHA!

R323, puleaze! He was an extra at best, and almost always uncredited. Has 173 credits, but only a half dozen recognizable or remembered films.

Francis Lederer was beautiful and soulful. He could play nearly everything very well: villains, romantic leads, comedy, horror. Yet we rarely see him mentioned.

Lederer had a very big send off in his first starring film which Hollywood thought was going to make him a new matinee idol. It didn't and he ended up playing supporting roles excellently.

There has never been anything good said about Harrison that I've come across. He was horribly difficult with everyone. Though he was very popular with the ladies. Amazingly I saw him 3 times on stage. Even towards the end of his life he was always returning to Broadway. And he was nice to me when I asked him for his autograph. Had at that point I had notion of what he was like I would never had asked.

Noel had one of his great bon mots at Harrison's expense. A fan supposedly went up to Rex in a restaurant and started gushing about what a wonderful actor he was and that he was her favorite etc. and he was so annoyed he lambasted her for ruining his dinner. Allegedly she was so upset and taken aback she hit him over the head with a menu. Coward said, 'That's the first time I've heard of a fan hitting the shit.'

I'm Team Rex regarding that anecdote, R340. She DID interrupt his dinner for no good reason (and while he was with a friend), then hit him because she didn't like the way she was being spoken to. She was the rude interloper who was way out of line.

Elisabeth (Margo) Bergner

Charles Korvin

Felix Knight -- Tom-Tom from "March of the Wooden Soldiers" (a/k/a "Babes in Toyland") had a gorgeous voice, later sang at the Met Opera and was very handsome.

For the Lew Ayres admirers, Lew in tiny short shorts

Daddy Aldo Ray of course, YUMMMMM

When I had lunch with Ginger Rogers in Boston in 1991 while she was touring with regards to her autobiography (of sorts), she shared that of all her husbands, Lew Ayres was the one she loved the most and regretted letting go. "I was only in my early 20's when we wed and that was too young to make a lifelong commitment. Ten years later, it probably would have worked out. Fortunately Lew and I have maintained a nice friendship..."

I'll give you short shorts, r345, but not tiny short shorts.

Doesn't Lew Ayres show us his butt in a bathing scene in pre-code "All Quiet on the Western Front" when he and other soldiers have a bath in a lake or river?

I believe so, r349. And somewhere there's a smooch.

I think Jane Powell is definitely underappreciated and underrated.

Besides having a beautiful soprano voice, able to do legit and jazzy songs as well, plus acting ability and being really lovely to look at, Ms. Powell was a really excellent dancer. Plus she can keep up with Fred Astaire in a dance, keep in tough gal character even during curtain calls, and chew gum as the same time! Very underrated.

Cute Lew

I know it's a gay site, but lesbians, didn't Jane Powell have really nice knockers in that clip?

Has DOROTHY LAMOUR been mentioned yet? A delightful personality and great beauty, mostly remembered as the female star of the Hope and Crosby Road pictures but a great singer, comedienne and dramatic actress hugely popular during WWII. She sold more war bonds than any other Hollywood actor. Also, well-remembered for popularizing Edith Head's sarong and tropical flower printed bathing suits.

R345 - who's the hairy-legged Robert Taylor-looking guy next to him?

She suffered from panamania, r355.

Not really a star, handsome Jimmy Thompson appeared in feature roles in a number of MGM films of the fifties. I’ve read that he was a "protégé" of Gene Kelly, lol. He was later hired by Kay Thompson as a singer/dancer for her nightclub act, after which he seems to have disappeared. Liza may be the only one living who knows what happened to this cutie.

He has a larger role in Brigadoon but they cut one of his numbers, Come to Me, Bend to Me. A gorgeous song that is fortunately added as an extra on the bluray. I think he is dubbed because it sits pretty high. But he doesn't appear to be dubbed in SITR.

I don't think he even got billing, and he's on screen longer than Rita Moreno!

There is a TCM interview with Ayres on youtube when he was pretty old. Worth seeking out. You can still see he was once a handsome man. He talks about how wonderful a woman Ginger was and still is. I think she died a few months after the interview was made. He lived maybe a couple of years more.

The very handsome (and gay!) Kerwin Mathews

Jane Powell had a big career in dinner theater and did commercials for denture stuff. Actually she did a commercials for lots of stuff--I seem to remember her doing pain reliever of coffee ads before her long run with denture products. She also guested on all the "they aren't dead yet" shows like "Murder, She Wrote".

Lew Ayers gave a wonderful late-in-life performance as the totally taken for granted vice-president in "Advise and Consent".

More Jane...

Nancy has a great Carmen Miranda(remember her?) number with umbrellas. Totally bonkers.

"Baião (Ca-Room' Pa Pa)"

Rio has a museum dedicated to Miranda.

I love the little trills she makes in 'Adeus de something de mundo'.

I'd love to see what they have in their gift shop, r368.

Jane Powell and John Payne are winning this thread!

r365 Thank you!

r371 Jane seems to have been a great suggestion by me!

I think one of her saving graces is that she is not very heavily into the showbiz scene.Shes grounded and down to earth.

I believe at one point though she was good friends with Elizabeth Taylor?

ALICE FAYE was Hollywood's biggest musical star in the late 30s/early 40s and the songs she introduced in her films often were top-of-the-chart hits, like the luminous You'll Never Know from Hello, Frisco, Hello! I love her feisty working girl persona in those period Fox musicals. Irving Berlin wrote songs for her and all of her co-stars (like John Payne!) adored her.

I can't forget this woman

Anyone think Vera Miles deserves to be rembered more? Like the divine Jane Powell she is still with us.

No. Vera Miles is and was totally forgettable.

Oh Kim !! r376 Please spill what is your beef with Vera! ?

I believe she has been a recluse for years.

Vera would be the one to have a beef with Kim, r377...see Vertigo. Here's Jane's take on her Hollywood career:

“I never felt I was really there anyway. I always pictured myself as a fly who was up in the corner looking down at myself. I never feel I was there.”

r378 A very healthy perspective emotionally and psychologically that Jane has there.

I wonder if she will be the Olivia De Havilland of her generation and live to 100 and beyond?

Jane on:

*

Carmen Miranda: “I really loved her. She was like a little bird that fell out of the nest. She was so shy. Terribly shy.

*

Fred Astaire: “He was wonderful to me. I rehearsed with a stand-in and didn't do anything with him until everything was fine. But he was a very private man. I was terrified dancing with him, but I was terrified all the time anyway, so it didn’t make any difference.”

*

Hedy Lamarr: “Well, Hedy didn’t like me too much because she had to play my mother and she didn’t like having to play a mother. She was such a beautiful woman, but she was so wrapped up in her beauty and that was it.”

*

Ann Miller: “On her passport where it said, ‘occupation,’ she wrote, ‘Star.’ I loved Annie. One time we were both on the road in shows in Houston and the apartment building we were staying in was right across the parking lot from the theater and you could just walk across the street. Not Ann. She had to have a car pick her up. Ann could not boil water. Literally. She didn’t know how to drive or if she did she didn’t tell anybody. She was very smart lady.”

Well Powell was a bridesmaid at Taylor's first wedding but she said it was staged managed by MGM so she wasn't so much chosen by Liz as cast by the studio.

R374, how odd they'd pick Powell for those denture commercials. She's CLEARLY not wearing dentures, not even uppers!

How do you know she's not wearing dentures?

20% of the population wear dentures.

Put on your glasses R383. Her teeth are crooked and grey! The lowers more than the uppers but still...

Jane Powell, Uncensored:

“Arlene Dahl is a friend. June Allyson has visited us in Connecticut. But despite all the movies I made with Debbie, I’ve never been to her house for dinner. I’ve never been to anyone’s house that I worked with. There was an A Group and a B Group. I was in the F Group.”

"“I wanted to go to college. My mother said ‘Why? You already have a job!’ So my only education was three hours a day on the set with Margaret O’Brien and Elizabeth Taylor,” she recalled. “But we never met in the commissary or talked girl talk. I never went to sleepover parties or football games or did any of the things my friends back in Portland were doing. If I had a hiatus, they sent me to New York to sing six shows a day at the Capitol Theater, and that was my vacation. I made a great deal of money but I never got to spend it. My mother took everything. "

“At last I got to play a sexpot, but it was so bad I never saw it. Nobody did. It was the first time in my career I ever felt animosity or jealousy from another actress. Hedy didn’t want to play anybody’s mother. She was the worst person I ever worked with and the whole thing was just miserable. After that, I just gave up on movies.”

Jane obviously wanted to avoid thus syndrome

Poor Jane. Her life as a child star sounds so miserable. Her mom was a greedy cunt.

[quote] Well Powell was a bridesmaid at Taylor's first wedding but she said it was staged managed by MGM so she wasn't so much chosen by Liz as cast by the studio.

Liz started off on the wrong foot, with her first wedding an event managed by a movie studio -- how romantic! She was 18 for that and the marriage lasted less than a year. Poor girl never had a chance at anything resembling a normal life.

I always enjoyed Jane as a child but wasn't a huge fan. However, my opinion of her as a person increased considerably after I interviewed her in 1981.

In the summer of 1981, she and David Hedison toured in a production entitled, "The Marriage-Go-Round". They came to New Hampshire to the Lakes Region Playhouse and I secured an interview with Jane, which she allowed me to record.

She treated this 26 year old as though I were a seasoned reporter and could not have been nicer.

During the hour interview, she became very emotional while talking about Jeanette MacDonald, who had played her mother in a 1948 MGM, Joe Pasternak production, "Three Daring Daughters".

Jane had been a huge fan of Jeanette while growing up and had loved her films, "Especially those without Nelson Eddy" she noted.

She also spoke about how nervous she was the day she and Jeanette were to record a duet for the film.

"MGM had used a beautiful Grieg piece, added words to it and titled it "Springtide". I was a wreck because I was going to be singing a duet with Jeanette MacDonald. I told her how I was feeling and she took my hand and looked me right in the eyes and said, 'Jane, you're going to be just fine. You have a beautiful voice and I am thrilled to be singing with you'. Can you believe it? Jeanette was thrilled to be singing with me? MY nervousness instantly vanished."

She also remembered Jeanette saying to a music mixer, "Mike (McLaughlin), make sure you favor Jane for this number. It's her turn now..."

Jane also talked about how emotional Jeanette's funeral in January of 1965 had been for her. Reportedly she had to be helped from the Chapel.

"It was an awful day. It felt like I'd lost a member of my family..."

Later that night Hedison told me that working with Jane was "Pure joy". He also said, "She is such a pro and so giving to the other performers. She knows her lines, has no ego or sense of self-importance. I wish this tour would never end".

The only disappointment for the masses that filled every performance, was the fact that Jane didn't sing in the play.

r385, say what you will about Rex Reed, no one could interview Golden Age movie stars better than him.

Though I'm surprised he didn't ask her about her affair with Gene Nelson. Or perhaps he did and she chose not to discuss it.

I adore Gene Nelson, but he was really a shit to Jane. They both divorced their spouses to be with each other, but Gene then dropped Jane. Horrific way to treat a lover who got divorced so she would be free to marry you.

I'm glad John finally gets his due...greatest cock in hollywood

How funny. I'm watching Saturday morning cartoons on MeTV. One of my very favorites just began...

Dick Powell was the quintessential all-American boy.

Dick Powell had a second life as Phillip Marlowe, but basically he was somewhere at the bottom of the A-list, like Robert Montgomery. Not surprising that both wound up in television during its early days.

Gloria Dickson, B-movie femme fatale killed in a house fire in the forties.

When Dick Powell and Robert Montgomery were young leading men in the early 1930s, they couldn't have been any more A List. Both at the top of Hollywood fame and popularity in that brief period between the Silents and the advent of Talkies.

Powell was Warner's leading male ingenue and Montgomery was MGM's top leading man (before Gable introduced a whole other kind of sexuality). Admittedly, they are both pretty much forgotten or dismissed today. That same few years also saw the forgotten stardom of Constance Bennett, Kay Francis, Ann Harding, Ruth Chatterton, Nancy Carroll and Lilyan Tashman, all but gone by the end of the decade. Janet Gaynor would be in the same group if not for her memorable comeback in the original 1937 A Star Is Born.

Kay and Lilyan were...girls about town.

and...

Am I the only one who finds Kay Francis homely? Not just plain or less than beautiful, but out and out homely? I agree that she wore gowns well but her ugly face distracts me from the fashions.

[quote]Not surprising that both wound up in television during its early days.

Gurl, they weren't just in TV, they MADE it. Both were successful TV producers and made a fortune at it.

Jacqueline White still with us aged 98. Starred in numerous films in the 1940s and her last film was Narrow Margin in 1952. Never hear her mentioned anywhere at all nowadays don't think?

This is a photo taken of Jacqueline White at a film festival in 2014.

What about Miss Anita Louise?

R400, I don't think she's ugly, just not beautiful. But she made up for it by her glamorous style. Miss Francis was a tall 5'9" and wore clothes well. Warner Bros capitalized on this by dressing her in fancy costumes and glamorous gowns to appeal to Depression-era women who lived vicariously through her characters. I guess having a "homely" appearance but decked to the nines made her more identifiable to the average woman.

Does anyone remember lovely Joan Caulfield? I imagine she's totally forgotten today but she was one of Paramount's biggest stars in the post-WWII years and often costarred with Bing Crosby and Bob Hope in musicals and comedies..

Lucille Watson was always an interesting supporting actor.

Lucile Watson famously played imperious mothers, most notably Norma Shearer's in THE WOMEN and Robert Taylor's in WATERLOO BRIDGE. Loved her!

Joan!!!

Jane in Irene...

Jane's performance in "Irene" was far superior to Debbie Reynolds' who played the role first. Jane inhabited the role while Debbie played Debbie and not even well.

Anyone know much about the upthread mentioned actress Jacqueline White?

Its clear from this thread anyway that Jane Powell resonates a lot more than Vera Miles.

Anyone think Angie Dickinson is under appreciated?

R406 Did you know that Catcher in the Rye's protagonist got his last name from Joan C? Salinger was in the midst of planning/writing it when one day while walking he saw the movie marquee of a theatre playing the film "Dear Ruth," which starred William HOLDEN and Joan CAULFIELD.

r413, I didn't know that! Fascinating. Sorta not surprising in that Joan Caulfield was a young man's fantasy blonde wet dream when he was first writing.

Another forgotten star is Virginia Mayo who (most unusually) alternated between dramas and musicals, going from a Goldwyn Girl and starring with Bob Hope in "The Princess And The Pirate" and Danny Kaye in "The Kid from Brooklyn" and "Wonder Man" to ask unsympathetic role in "The Best Years of Our Lives". Warners bought out her contract and co-starred her with Cagney in the noir "White Heat" then put her in a series of musicals ("She's Back on roadway" "She's Working Her Way Through College" and "Painting the Clouds with sunshine") then freelanced, doing Westerns and Dramas. She worked steadily all through the '50s and did a lot of TV in the '80s. She died in 2005, age 84.

I wonder if Virginia Mayo's versatility did her in? She avoided typecasting but also avoided lasting stardom.

I hate Virginia Mayo and her big breasts.

Gregory Peck chose me to star in his film.

Bette Davis balked at being forced to make Beyond the Forest and suggested Warner Bros. cast Virginia Mayo instead.

R415, I loved Virginia Mayo. She played trampy so well. I love how she cheats on Dana Andrews with Steve Cochran, then cheats on Jimmy Cagney with (again) Steve Cochran.

Powell and Montgomery were at the top for a very short period. They both were able to hang around doing forgettable stuff for the next 20 years and entered television. Both were blacklist supporting Republicans, reason enough to forget them, if Powell's dull crooning wasn't enough.

That would have cheated Albee out of a bit, r418.

Where do we stand on Toby Wing?

Sorry R413

An urban legend states that Caulfield's film Dear Ruth (1947) inspired author J.D. Salinger to name the protagonist of his novel The Catcher in the Rye (1951) "Holden Caulfield" after seeing a movie theater marquee with the film's stars: Caulfield and William Holden. However, Holden Caulfield was mentioned in Salinger's short story "Last Day of the Last Furlough" in the July 15, 1944 issue of the Saturday Evening Post, three years before Dear Ruth. The earliest known use of the Caulfield name, including a mention of Holden, is in the unpublished 1942 story "The Last and Best of the Peter Pans." A more common version of the legend claims that Salinger was taken by Joan Caulfield upon first seeing her in a modeling photo or a publicity still or an acting performance. Since Joan was a leading model by 1941 and her acting career began in 1942 with an appearance in the short-lived Broadway musical Beat the Band, this version of the legend makes his using her surname for his character at least possible.

The Petty Girl

R423 Dammit! I'll never believe anything Bob Dorian tells me again! (That's where I heard it, on AMC nearly thirty years ago.)

Hell of a coincidence, then.

The prototypical supporting actress Teresa Wright doesn’t get much recognition these days. She was the Eva Marie saint before eva Marie saint. They both played similar types. I thought she was very good in the films I’ve seen of hers including ‘the men’, ‘the best years of our lives’ and ‘shadow of a doubt’

R426 don't forget the cult classic TRACK OF THE CAT with sexy Bob Mitchum and HEAVENLY TAB HUNTER in a pretty terrific performance as Bob's shy little brother. Hunky William Hopper, Hedda's pretty crotchfruit is in it too. Lots of eye candy in this one

Ah, have to check that one out. Thanks r427

Used to live with a couple who were originally from Cambridge, born and raised. They said that locals—especially the less well-off—hated the student contingent, and often wished the University wasn’t so big and prestigious and such a tourist trap. Cambridge University does make the town affluent, but it also drives up the cost of living for locals massively, and makes a lot of everyday things inconvenient or a hassle.

R428, it's actually a very good movie, you won't be disappointed. Beulah Bondi is in it too.

^^soz wrong thread

So, R429, which forgotten movie star who derserves to be remembered did you meet there ???

Jane Powell stepped in for Eileen Fulton on As the World Turns in the late 80s and was amazingly good. It's tough enough being a last minute replacement on a soap with all the dialog and relationships you have to instantly learn, but she hit it out if the park and made it seem like she had been playing the part for decades.

As far as name combos go, what about...Gloria Holden?

Gloria Holden was also the name of a pivotal character in the trenchant and absorbing bestseller, 𝙏𝙧𝙪𝙙𝙮 𝙋𝙝𝙞𝙡𝙡𝙞𝙥𝙨, 𝙉𝙚𝙬 𝙂𝙞𝙧𝙡.

R389, well aren't YOU special! :)

Seriously, did Jane talk about how they had to piece together Jeannette's vocals to make sure she was even remotely in tune?

Aw, don't be a dickey bird, r436.

Claire Trevor always seemed to be a sassy character. I don't see her mentioned much anymore.

I like Claire R438. Especially in Key largo

I mentioned her upthread, r438...somewhere. The Academy voters liked her in Key Largo as well, r439.

Claire was the ONLY reason to watch 1982's "Kiss Me Goodbye" with Sally Field and James Caan.

Oh NO. James Caan is a reason in itself. YUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Claire Trevor is more of a character player than a "star". Someone needs to do a tribute to character players who probably were more interesting than some of these bottom of the A-list and top of the B-list stars we've been discussing who often had pretty brief periods in the limelight.

Actress, singer Priscilla Lane.

Priscilla, Rosemary and Lola were cunts, r444.

You're telling me!

Holden Caulfield goes to see Random Harvest at Radio City which was one of the biggest hits it ever had opening for Christmas and playing until March. It is one of my favorite movies but Holden doesn't like it.

Ronald Coleman was one of Hollywood's greatest stars but does not seem to be remembered on the level of a Gable, Fonda or Stewart. Susan Peters who gives a wonderful performance in it has already been mentioned.

"...does not seem to be remembered on the level of a Gable, Fonda or Stewart"

They could do westerns, r447, making them more a part of Americana.

In another 10 years, Bob Hope and Bing Crosby's stardom will seem as distant as Lily Langtry's. Like they never existed though they were among the most famous men in the world for at least 35 years.

It's really all about a star appearing in a memorable huge hit film or 2. Vivien Leigh only made a handful of films, most of them rather obscure by Hollywood standards, but she was sensational in GWTW and Streetcar and will therefore always be remembered and be a Hollywood icon.

I doubt that many people under 35 would be able to identify John Wayne and name one of his films.

Lola Lane, mentioned at R445, was once married to actor Lew Ayres, mentioned several times above. She was also married to Roland West, until his death in 1952. Mr. West may have been responsible for the mysterious death of Thelma Todd. He supposedly confided to his best friend, Chester Morris (also mentioned in this thread) that he had killed her.

Leota Lane auditioned to be one of the "Four Daughters," but she didn't get the part. She must've stunk pretty bad since she was the only acting Lane sister not to get cast. Gale Page got the part.

Leota was the Laverne!

R450, his films are on cable pretty regularly. I bet most of them could identify him.

[quote]In another 10 years, Bob Hope and Bing Crosby's stardom will seem as distant as Lily Langtry's.

I was thinking something similar while watching a youtube clip of Judy, Sinatra, and Dean Martin performing together on her show. How such tremendous talent as theirs has no relevance in today's musical landscape of Kpop and Cardi B, and in 10 or so years they will be just as forgotten as Rudy Vallee, Lillian Russell, and all the popular stars of their day.

R454, that's not true, and you know it. You're just looking for an excuse to bash non-white people (K-pop, Cardi B). Renee Zellweger recently won an Oscar for playing Judy, she's not forgotten.

You sound like the old-timers in the 50s who called rock 'n' roll "jungle music"

R455, I wasn't even thinking along racial lines, but okay. My apologies. I was just thinking how Judy, Frank, Dino's brand of entertainment has given way to entertainment that is either sexually explicit or manufactured gimmickry, and no longer relevent to today's standards to remain popular.

Not all artists today are "gimmicky" or "sexually explicit"....just like not all artists from the past were brilliant talents. For every Sinatra, there was a Fabian. Some people are just stuck in the past and can't accept change, I guess.

Personally I like Bobby Rydell. He's cute.

R430 wow I barely recognised Teresa Wright in this film, she looked so much more mature than previously in ‘the men’… the guys were all good looking in this film but was not keen on Arthur’s cow skin coat. Hopper was very handsome sort of a fair haired pierce brosnan.

Beulah bondi was heartbreaking. Great film. Thanks for the recommendation.

R459, Glad you enjoyed it

Teresa had a wonderful skill in making even the smallest of roles become memorable.

She is only briefly in 1980's, "Somewhere in Time" but her performance is moving.

Was Teresa Wright?

Bing Crosby has 'White Christmas' (the song, less so the film) so for that, if for no other reason, he'll have some sort of cultural traction for a while.

[quote] who called rock 'n' roll "jungle music"

Percussive sound without melody IS 'jungle music'.

They used drums before and now they use machinery to replicate the thumping of drums.

R434, whoever mentioned Gloria Holden...there was a transvestite who appeared in lot of gay short films in that transitional short period between "physique" films and porn. He went by the name of Glory Holden, and looked like Milton Berle in drag. Thankfully, he always had the non-sexual comic relief roles.

(R436) I am currently writing a detailed book about the sopranos who graced Hollywood films from the late 20's through the 60's and MacDonald is one of them.

Not being a big fan of hers, I have been amazed at her skill in live performances.

I obtained taped recordings of her performances at Carnegie Hall (1953), Robin Hood Dell in Philly, Red Rocks Stadium, the Hollywood Bowl (1945 and 1948) as well as two Grand Opera performances ("Faust" and "Romeo & Juliet") and her 1956 performance as Mrs. Anna in "The King and I". There isn't a flat, sour or off-key note to be found in any of these and I was surprised to discover, through those tapes, that she was not just a movie singer.

The two Gounod Operas were clearly chosen because they were in her range but if you didn't know it was her, you'd think you were listening to one of the better Met singers. I am sure it didn't hurt that she trained with the legendary Lotte Lehmann.

Her Mrs. Anna in "King and I" is the best vocal performance of the role I have ever heard. By then (1956) she was wise in doing musical comedy and her voice and middle register are outstanding.

I've not found any evidence to support your claim about having to put together her vocals and I have reviewed hundreds of documents from the music department at MGM and Paramount.

r466 has stated her boundaries!

Jeanette McDonald got excellent reviews for her opera performances. Even a notoriously difficult Chicago critic liked her performances. Her teacher, Lotte Lehman, at first thought she was going to be pampered movie star, but was then won over by how hard McDonald worked at her studies. A musical friend mentioned that he thought in some of her movies that he thought they had her singing in keys that were in tessituras that were too high for her -- she had the notes, but was really was more of a lyric soprano with coloratura extension rather than a true coloratura.

I got this album in my...distant...youth. I'd never heard her sing San Francisco. When she got to the "jazzy" part, I thought the record was warped.

(r468) I agree with your remarks about Jeanette. She generally seemed to use her voice very capably and sometimes stunningly so..

The January, 1953 Carnegie Hall concert should have been released by RCA Victor because, at almost 50, she sings with a confidence that is beautiful to hear. Her "Siempre Libre" is far better than the version she sang in 1936 in "San Francisco" and the shrillness of the next to last note of the film's recording, would indicate it was the fault of Douglas Shearer and his recording department not Miss MacDonald. In the 1953 concert, she hits it perfectly - beautifully placed and very pure.

One of the other recordings is her 1954 appearance at The Coconut Grove in Los Angeles and her "Un Bel Di" sends shivers. She also done an exquisite "Ebb Tide" that can only be described as sensuous, a word not always associated with MacDonald's singing, although she was quite sensual in some of her Lubitsch comedies which displayed her amazing skills at romantic comedy.

After listening to all of these and learning more about her musical career, I have developed a genuine respect and admiration for her.

Good ol' Lily Pons...

After viewing "I Dream Too Much", a caustic film critic said it would have been better titled, "I Scream Too Much".

Sounds too much like I Wake Up Screaming.

Totally forgotten today but a huge Hollywood star for a few years in the 1930s was opera star Grace Moore.

What the hell was going on during The Great Depression that made American audience crave Moore, Lily Pons, Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy and their operatic musicals?

Sophisticated Warner Baxter was a major star in the early '30s. His Crime Doctor films of the '40s are really wonderful little B films. He seems to be forgotten now, but he didn't really have anything about his personality that would make him endure through time.

What the hell was going on during The Great Depression that made American audience crave Moore, Lily Pons, Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy and their operatic musicals?

People found their films entertaining. Tastes change. People used to like westerns.

Herbert Marshall, star of, among other things, The Little Foxes and both versions of The Letter. Always interesting to watch.

And he did it all on one leg. Fabulous!

And that girl...had a wooden foot!

Add to those operatic star Deanna Durbin, probably the most popular of all, who saved Universal with her first 2 films. Many of her subsequent films were very popular indeed. Back in those days there was a lot of opera and classical music played on the radio, and the tradition of legit voices started to veer off into crooning and jazz, not as radical as when later later hard rock 'n roll called for a very different kind of vocal style. Many of the people who ran the film studios back and who directed and produced films then were European-born and/or refugees. That operatic and classical tradition was something very popular and part of a cherished tradition back then. Other opera stars like Lawrence Tibbett (who got an Oscar nomination for "The Rogue Song", a lost film except for fragment, as did Grace Moore for "One Night of Love") started to be enlisted when sound came to films as well.

R477 Herbert Marshall had a beautiful voice.

He had star parts in the early 30s (opposite Garbo?) but he slipped down into supporting 'handbag' roles and quasi-gay roles (Ashendon).

He made a very lovely recording which is occasionally played on quality radio programs. It is VERY poignant.

Susanna Foster (Universal), Jeanette MacDonald (MGM), Kathryn Grayson (MGM), Judy Garland (MGM), and Deanna Durbin (Universal) pose together in 1941 at an award event. They were all being honored for their contributions to musical films. Of the four sopranos, MacDonald had the longest screen career (1929 - 1949).

I'd love to see that photo, r482!

I love that book, r481!

R483

Kathryn Grayson portrayed Grace Moore in "So This is Love" (1953), alongside a young Merv Griffin.

(r485) Thank you for posting. I could not get it to work when I referenced it above.

DL faves Kay Frances, Miriam Hopkins and Herbert Marshall star in Lubitsch's sublime Trouble in Paradise.

And then there is Lubitsch's The Merry Widow with a whole slew of DL faves and a budget that would have been enough for Universal films for a year.

Richard Barthelmess. A handsome, brunette leading man of the silent era who was (alas) also cast in Chinese (the infamous "Broken Blossoms" with Lillian Gish) and Native American, as was done back then.

According to TCM, he underwent unsuccessful plastic surgery in an attempt to prolong his movie career and was scarred so badly that it ended his on-camera career instead.

I think many actors of the time would have self-destructed at that point, but Barthelmess instead became one of the founders of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences and invested wisely and extensively in New York City real estate, and lived very comfortably off his investments for the remaining decades of his life.

He's quite wonderful in Broken Blossoms and it is one of the more brutal films you will see. Griffith didn't have a problem showing people at their ugliest. A very great film. Barthelmess is beautiful in Tol'able David.

And of course there's this.

R490, is it me or does Barthelmess look a little like Jake Gyllenhaal in Tol'able David?

Dear Dickie, I adored him!

I'm glad r447 mentioned Ronald Colman, who had a great career from the silents, transitioned to talkies, and worked right up to almost his death in the late 1950s.

Edmond O'Brien had a great career and was an Academy Award winner yet would hardly be recognized today.

In the more modern era, the incredibly handsome Jan Michael Vincent peaked in his young days in the 1970s with films like Buster and Billie, White Line Fever, tv movie Tribes, and the Baby Blue Marine. His later descent into alcoholism and addiction tarnished his looks and work. Likely to be forgotten by the Millennials.

Noir fans would recognize Edmond O'Brien

Edmond O'Brien, excellent actor, married to Olga San Juan, the female lead of the Broadway show "Paint Your Wagon" and featured in some Paramount musicals. O'Brien won an Oscar as well.

Jan Michael Vincent lives on, R494.

John Wayne's movies may be shown on TV 24/7 but that doesn't mean anyone under 35 is watching them. Or even anyone under 50.

Miss Olga San Juan

R498, they've probably seen bits and pieces of those movies. Enough to know who he is

The more I found out about John Wayne, the more I came to despise him. I refuse to watch any of his movies.

I always just accepted the talk about John Wayne being a bad actor, but then I saw "Red River", "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon", "The Searchers" and "The Quiet Man". He was actually very good.

R501 Do you despise him for things in his private life?

The original "Stagecoach" (1939) is an excellent movie -- everyone in it does a great job, including Wayne. He's also good in Barbara Stanwyck's "Baby Face", (1933), a small part but well done (and he was a very appealing young man).

He and Dietrich...you know...

^. Marion Morrison vaguely was handsome briefly in the 1930s. He was 'a big lug' like this new footballer guy Carl Nassib.

R466, who do you think will buy your 'detailed' book? Most 90-year olds don't go online...

You's be surprised, R507.

I've seen some absolute junk about Hollywood which gets sold to eager people.

Thanks R508. That should serve as a warning to R466. The guy's written TWELVE books over the last 10 years, and sold SIXTY NINE of them.

^ I think more of them are sold as Kindle items rather than as Paperback books.

BTW: Amazon is selling "Will There Really be a Morning?" a paperback by Frances Farmer for $902 ! ! !

That must be some kind of glitch. When DL touted the 1953 young adults novel "Trudy Phillips, New Girl" recently, I looked it up on Amazon and found "3 new from $902.81" -- but that was right below "10 used from $9.99" and "hardcover $13.48".

R511 this is the result of pricing software, which makes Amazon prices on used items just stupid and idiotic, I don't know why they allow this.

BWAHAHAHA! :)

(r507) If for no other reason than historic purposes, it provides heretofore unknown facts and information. It also contains interviews with Joe Pasternak, Kathryn Grayson, Jane Powell, Charles Walters, Deanna Durbin, and others, that have never been shared.

For a nearly a quarter of a century (1929 until the early 50's), films starring sopranos were often among the top moneymaking films of their release year. ("Maytime" in 1937 was the top moneymaking film, worldwide, for the year according to Variety). Then suddenly you couldn't give away tickets to most films featuring sopranos with a few notable exceptions.

The fact that many of these stars had fans that were in their teens and twenties, and not merely elderly folks, at the time, reliving a previous era, merits what I hope will be an entertaining look.

While great talents like Garland, Astaire, Kelly and others are often credited as being the real stars of the Golden Age of Film Musicals, MacDonald and Durbin, in particular, were box-office powerhouses, and at the top of the international popularity polls from the mid-30's well into the 1940's.

I think your thesis is fascinating, r514. I look forward to reading the book.

IN 1951 two of MGM's most notable musical releases were "An American in Paris" and "Show Boat". Both were successful but the profit for "Show Boat" exceeded the profit for "American" by over 1 million dollars.

R514, did Rise Stevens attempt a film career?

Elmer Clifton was dreamy. And he did it all. Act. Direct. Write. Produce. Of course, most of it was in silent flm. He helped make Hollywood and should be much better remembered.

Hope Williams, for whom Phillip Barry wrote the play "Holiday." Katharine Hepburn had understudied for her on the original Broadway production and then played her role in George Cukor's ​film.

Hepburn said of Williams: "I stole a great deal from Hope. She was the first fascinating personality from that period, 1929 to 1932, which wasn't really ready for her. She was a woman who blossomed with a little more than she was supposed to."

(r517) Yes, Rise did come to Hollywood in 1941 to co-star with Nelson Eddy in MGM's "The Chocolate Soldier". The film received okay reviews and many said Eddy gave his best performance. Rise also received praise but moviegoers did not take to her. The film grossed less than 1 million dollars (netting about half of that) and losing a considerable sum.

Rise did appear in the hugely popular "Going My Way" with Bing Crosby, three years later. Because of Crosby's popularity, the film was a blockbuster for it's time. Rise performed a number from the Opera "Carmen" ("Habanera) "Despite a stellar Met career and a career on radio, television, recordings and as a concert artist and later in some stage operettas and musicals, her film career never took off.

It was a similar situation with Lily Pons, Gladys Swarthout and others who trekked to Hollywood but never found enormous film success.

Grace Moore failed in two 1930 attempts but came back in 1934 at Columbia with the hit, "One Night of Love". She became the only soprano to be nominated as Best Actress at the Oscars. However each successive film she made in the 3 years following, took in less and less at the box-office and the last two lost money. Even the film about her life that was filmed at Warners in 1953, several years after her death and starring Kathryn Grayson, flopped.

I've forgotten her name even though we made a film together. Abused her adopted kids. The fucking name of the bitch escapes me!

Don't forget the sequel, Trudy Phillips HEADLINE YEAR, r511. Gloria Holden is now friends with Trudy and moves in with the Phillips family.

And for the illiterate set...

Katharine Cornell and Hope Williams at 2:50, r519...

Risë's vocal regimen included 3 packs a day, r520.

R524 thank you, that was a nice change from Roddy's home movies, but I'm surprised at how very middle class it all looks. Noel was no Cecil Beaton

R499 Take that, Rita Moreno! I believe that song is "Babalu" which Desi Arnaz used to sing all the time on "I Love Lucy" Plus the next year, Olga San Juan was chosen to play the lead in "Paint Your Wagon" as the non-Hispanic daughter of white lead James Barton; the story line has her secretly meeting with Julio, her Mexican lover. Interesting that she was cast this way. She had a very good belt when she sang those Lerner & Loewe songs, but I believe she gave up her performing career in the 1950s after she married Edmond O'Brien. Her Broadway co-star as Julio, Tony Bavaar, had a gorgeous voice, especially singing "I Talk to the Trees", which in the movie Clint Eastwood sang, which a critic said sounded like a moose.

Rita Moreno Is SUCH a cunt

[quote]Rita Moreno Is SUCH a cunt

From Day one she was Team Lina when the world was Team Cathy. Typecasting.

Rise Stevens was a mezzo, and that "Going My Way" actually solidified that she was the most famous Carmen since Emma Calve. It also helped that Stevens was known at certain performance for letting at least one of her boobs fall out of her costume. Plus Rise was very pretty and a very good actress. Frankly, I think I've heard more sumptuously sung Carmens though. But she apparently had the total package. I like her in "The Chocolate Soldier", which is not the plot or Oscar Strauss music of its "Arms and the Man" title; it actually uses the plot of "The Guardsman" which had been filmed with Lynn Fontanne and Alfred Lunt. Nelson Eddy is quite good in the film in his acting. I remember reading there's a least one Eddy-McDonald film where they went out of their way to make him more animated in his movements, and they succeeded pretty well. Of course, he always sounded wonderful.

But McDonald was more fun and free (and had a usual gratuitous lingereie scene) in her early Paramount films directed by Mamoulian (the superb "Love Me Tonight") and Lubitsch. Her 1929 debut in "The Love Parade" opposite Chevalier is really impressive. She had appeared on Broadway, and Lubitsch called her in after seeing a screen test of hers after looking at a number of them while looking for a leading lady for Chevalier. She has such authority on screen opposite over the title star Chevalier, and she's so sexy and fun in that and her other films opposite him. MGM toned down her sexuality and made her more ladylike opposite Eddy, which partnership was obviously extremely popular, but not quite as fun as she had been in her Paramount films and the 1934 Lubitsch "Merry Widow" at MGM.

Olga wasn't a bad dancer...

(r530) Agree with all of your remarks.

I enjoy MacDonald in "The Cat and the Fiddle" because it has a bit of that sauciness that she did so effortlessly at Paramount and I love her chemistry opposite Allan Jones in "The Firefly".

He is not well-remembered today but did a handful of films that were good and despite "Show Boat" perhaps being more renowned, "The Firefly" sizzles when he and MacDonald are on-screen together.

Had she not been stuck in the "Operetta Rut" at Metro, she could have segued, as did Irene Dunne, to roles where the singing was more incidental. She and Dunne were best friends and would sing together when dining with their spouses at one another's homes. Sadly no recordings were ever made.

They woulda been SOCKO at the B.O. in Side Show!

Actually, they would!

Has he gone missing?

Speaking of operettas...

An interesting project for MacDonald in the early 60's was this one, as noted on a CD tribute to Hugh Martin: "It also offers memorable songs from unproduced musicals including the legendary Here Come the Dreamers, a fascinating 1961 project planned for Jeanette MacDonald and Liza Minnelli, but aborted when MacDonald was diagnosed with cancer."

Actually Jeanette had a serious heart condition, not cancer, and underwent surgery performed by heart surgeon, Michael DeBakey.

We rarely hear anything any more about Mario Lanza, the last operatic star to hit it big in Golden Age Hollywood before he clashed with MGM, got fired, then ate and drank his way into near bankruptcy and an early grave.

I remember hearing as a kid that he ate himself to death, r538. I took it literally....as in one sitting.

Lanza had a great voice, but was notoriously difficult. At one point, there was talk of teaming him with Judy Garland, until someone said something like " You want to team up the two most difficult [in terms of whether they will show up on set, etc.] people at the studio? Do you want this film to ever be made?"

Lanza was nasty to co-star Doretta Morrow. He could also be crude; apparently the story goes, he was in some restaurant and the service wasn't fast enough for him. He supposedly stood up, took out his [big] cock, and beat it against the table saying "Don't you know who I am?"

He had a huge appetite and weight was a big problem. He died apparently while reducing at a spa on some experimental therapy in Europe, though there were rumors the mob might have been involved. Great voice, though, and a real shame. He was only like 39.

Kathryn Grayson was teamed with Lanza, twice, at MGM. She found him to be very crude and with an ego that had no end to it. She was friends with his wife Betty, who died about 5 months after Lanza did.

Kathryn remained close with his children.

Betty killed herself? Two of his kids also came to bad ends.

Yes, Betty died from a drug overdose. As for the kinds:

In 1991, his son Marc Lanza died of a heart attack. He was 37, a year younger than Mario was when he died. In 1998, daughter Colleen Lanza was struck by a car as she crossed a street. She spent two weeks in the hospital in a coma from which she never recovered. Son Damon Anthony Lanza died on August 16, 2008 in California at the age of 55. Lanza's surviving daughter, Ellisa Lanza Bregman, helps administer his estate and has previously opened up about the family's tragedies

Wow, three out of four. The shadow of The Black Hand was upon that family.

Mario Lanza was the uncle of actress turned nun Dolores Hart. I wonder if whoopi Goldberg’s character in sister act is named for hart. I also wonder if there’s more to the story than just a vocation that drove hart to become a nun. She was a protege of Hal b. Wallis.

Legendary MGM hairstylist, Sydney Guilaroff told a story about Lanza for his autobiography that was ultimately edited out, but it bears telling.

Lanza was furious at a wig Guilaroff had designed for him to wear in an MGM film and yanked it off his head, throwing it at Guilaroff and stating, "Thiis thing makes me look like a pansy and I hate pansies and I hate you." He grabbed Guilaroff by his short and appeared ready to hit him but Sydney kneed him in the groin. Lanza couldn't work for the rest of the day but the film's producer, Joe Pasternak, said it was worth it.

She also co-starred with Elvis!

So did Stanwyck and Lansbury.

Lanza did want to sing opposite Deanna Durbin in films and begged Joe Pasternak, who had tried many times over the years to get Deanna to un-retire, to return to films. She probably heard of Lanza's reputation, which didn't help in trying to get her back from France.

Deanna was the first choice to co-star with Lanza in Pasternak's "The Student Prince" at MGM. The studio also pursed her to star in "Kiss Me Kate" during that same time period. Her friend and former Producer, Joe Pasternak produced "Prince".

I think , r549, that her exact quote was "Shit, I'm not getting back in that shit business with that shit head!". Though I believe she used the word merde.

Deanna was also wanted to play Magnolia in "Show Boat" with Judy Garland as Julie. That would have been quite a reunion on film! She'd have been great as Sarah Brown in "Guys and Dolls" when I'm sure all known sopranos names were being bandied about, same as with "My Fair Lady" years later when a comeback would have been big news. Plus Deanna had been wanted for the Broadway original.

The story reportedly goes that Judy Garland called her old frenemy Deanna when Judy was doing a show in France, complaining about stuff, to which Deanna replied "Are you still in that shit business?" Judy made fun of Deanna on a Jack Paar show, so clearly Judy's jealousy that Deanna became a star first (and was treated relatively much better at Universal) never really went away.

In the 1970's "feelers" were also put out, informally, for Deanna to star in the French production of Sondheim's "A Little Night Music". No interest was shown and the idea quietly died.

Oh, wow! Never heard that one! As Desiree?

Yes, as Desiree.

No, Rose, as Petra.

"Deanna Durbin had been MGM's first choice for the role of Lilli Vanessi, but despite a visit by producer Jack Cummings to Deanna's home near Paris, she could not be persuaded to emerge from retirement. Miss Durbin already had rejected the chance to portray Lili in London's West End, where the British production played 400 performances at the Coliseum Theatre, running from March 8, 1951 until February 23, 1952. Patricia Morison, Broadway's original Lilli, re-created the part in London."

In addition to the planned Broadway musical with Liza, Jeanette MacDonald was also approached in the 1960's by producer Hal Prince to star in a musical version of "Sunset Boulevard".

"In the 1950s, talks with respect to a Broadway return occurred. In the 1960s, MacDonald was approached about starring on Broadway in a musical version of Sunset Boulevard. Harold Prince recounts in his autobiography visiting MacDonald at her home in Bel Air to discuss the proposed project."

The most beloved of the 1930's/40's screen sopranos, retained a certain allure long after their screen careers had concluded.

Gloria Swanson, who had a lovely soprano voice in a few films, was also approached and did some recordings for a "Sunset Boulevard" musical years ago, too.

that ugly bitch Garland was jealous of Deanna's talent, beauty popularity and success with beautiful men. Her only asset, her screetchy voice, was eclipsed by Deanna's , and all she could ever score was the like of Minelli's ugly gay ass, who gave her her equally monstruous and daft daughter, while Deanna had a c harmed life and beautiful children, and was well liked by her peers. Like her friend Bacall, Pignose got her due with her only oscar nomination, and died on a toilet, where she belonged.

Deanna Durbin's husband must have had some dick to keep her so happy in France.

Oh, c'mon, I liked 'em both!

Jeanne Crain - a big star in the 1940-1950s and then had to do television shows and movies in the 1960s. A common occurrence for pretty young things when they turn 35.

Eleanor Parker - a long, storied Hollywood career that turned after being cast as the bitch baroness in the "Sound of Music"

Joan Bennett - B movie actress made dozens of films in the Golden Age but she'll be remembered for "Dark Shadows."

Ruth Warrick - Made one of the great movies of all time for her debut, Citizen Kane, stayed steadily employed through the 1940s and early 50s, then became a soap legend, first on Guiding Light and As the World Turns, but best known for playing Phoebe on All My Children.

Eleanor eats scenery...

From all reports, Deanna was not jealous of Judy in the least. She always answered the phone would Judy would call, right up until 1968 when she last phoned her. She never felt competitive and recognized that they were two individuals with great talent.

Judy, who probably suffered from Manic-Depression, before it was ever easily identified and treated as it is today, had serious issues and those included with anyone with whom she felt competitive. She had poor self-esteem despite having enormous talent. She also liked to play the victim card and blame others for her problems, even when it was her own fault. She was also surrounded by people who didn't allow her to self examine or get the kind of help that would have saved her life. She attracted users and manipulators, sadly. Liza, in many ways, seems to have inherited the gene that can cause Bi-Polar.

Deanna had a gift of self-awareness and after two bad marriages in Hollywood, recognized that she had a choice - s career or personal happiness. She chose the latter and left at the age of 28 without so much as a backward glance. She could have continued and there were offers for films, stage work, concerts, among other things. She was adamant, however, in not second-guessing her decision. As a result, she had a third marriage that lasted nearly 50 years and raised two children who grew-up normal and without "Hollywood issues". She lived to be 91 while Judy, unfortunately, passed away at 47.

Universal, which Deanna had saved in 1936-1937 with her first two films, moved away from making musicals after it became Universal International in the mid-40's. IN fact, in the twenty years after Deanna's last film (1948), Universal only made two musical films of any note. "Flower Drum Song" and "Thoroughly Modern Millie" were both Ross Hunter Productions.

Pasternak would have welcomed Deanna at MGM and as mentioned previously, made a lucrative offer as did Producer Jack Cummings. Deanna settled for and found complete happiness. Judy needed the crowds, adulation and work to keep her going because her inner demons made her fearful of being idle.

Had Judy survived into the 70's, new treatments like Lithium, might have made her issues easier to handle. Patty Duke is an example of someone with a similar problem who was able top control the illness instead of it controlling her, although it took work and a good support system.

and after noting several typos in my prior response, I am getting rid of the readers and getting a pair of prescription glasses!!!

Judy also had the problems of pill-pushers and people more interested in using their product (herself) more than in her mental and physical health. She got out of there by the time she was 28, but the damage was already done. Deanna was fortunate that she had a loving, supportive family (including a sister who at the beginning believed in her enough to pay for her singing lessons) who made sure the studio didn't mess around with her. Plus she was the biggest star at her studio and was appreciated, while Judy's talent was understood to be phenomenal, MGM didn't seem to realize she was a person too.

R564, was any major star ever as consistently awful as Eleanor Parker?

Eleanor wasn't consistently awful. But when she was bad....she sure was.

Sadly I don't think Eleanor Parker had the clout to make studios given her the best scripts consistently.

For me, hers is the best performance in "The Sound of Music" and I cannot for the life of me understand why the Captain chooses Maria. Parker took a role that was not overly large or developed and could, in the wrong hands have been very unlikeable, and makes it memorable.

And they cut out her kazoo solo, r570! She was so good in Caged.

LIZZIE may not be a great movie, but Parker is amazing in it, and for me, better than Woodward in 3 FACES OF EVE. There's a moment where she's on the staircase, when you can see her change personas from the back. It was stunning. And she's fantastic in CAGED.

R524, R526 middle class

The people in these messy, chopped-up 1930s silent home movies are in a different class to today's obsessed Instagrammers. These people want to relax in their country clothes which were chosen for comfort rather style.

There's an ill-chosen dreary song on the soundtrack; Clifton Webb looking almost attractive at 3.00; but the footage goes to Jamaica with awful color and poor, addicted Noél smoking constantly.

I suppose I Went to a Marvelous Party would have been more appropriate, r573.

^ I consider that to be one of Noël's 'List Songs'. His list songs are just as mechanical and banal as Cole Porter's list songs.

However this clever song, below (performed, I assume, in front of drunks in Las Vegas) actually has a feasible plot as well as meticulous rhyming.

Ray Milland, George Raft, Wayne Morris and Conrad Veidt are a few more I've thought of. Not mentioned much anymore.

R565: " Judy needed the crowds, adulation and work to keep her going because her inner demons made her fearful of being idle."

I would say she needed the crowds, etc., because she was -- as cliched as it sounds -- born in a trunk -- performing onstage at the age of TWO. When that happens, one equates applause with love and acceptance. That's why she couldn't stop. And of course the drugs didn't help...

Dagmar was TV not movies but for someone so memorable it's sad she's been so forgotten.

Here she is with Frank.

I liked North To Alaska. John Wayne's wig knocked off in fight (Ernie Kovac did it) a good Fabian performance and Capucine's heartfelt one.

Ann Dvorak. One of the pre-code greats.

Dagmar was the first blonde bombshell of TV.

I was the second.

Not quite Golden Age, but was watching "Gidget" which was actually a very good film, and on those TCM film noir nights, "The Brothers Rico" and James Darren was really an excellent actor (studied with Stella Adler), very good-looking and a very good singer. He's still alive, too. He deserved a better career. Richard Conte was quite hot and excellent as the star of the latter; it's said he was wanted to play the title role in "The Godfather" until the studio insisted on bigger star Marlon Brando..

Dagmar. The name alone killed her chances.

You know what happens when her name is mentioned, r581...

r466: Thank you for your informative and enthusiastic post about Jeanette MacDonald.

Have you seen her French versions of "The Merry Widow" 1934 (La Veuve joyeuse) and "One Hour With You" (1932) ? I saw the first many years ago and I was amazed how good her accent was.

(r585) Yes I did see both films in French, back in the 1980's in Los Angeles. I also attended a 50th anniversary screening of "Love Me Tonight" in 1982, that Director Rouben Mamoulian attended.

MacDonald's French in the two films you reference, was flawless. I've a feeling that she may have chosen two French Operas by Gounod, to showcase her impeccable French. One critic noted that for the first time, seeing "Faust", he understood every word that Jeanette sang because of her impeccable command of the language..."

In the early 30's, prior to signing with MGM, she undertook two concert tours that included Paris, and was cheered for her perfect dialect.

Jeanette & Binnie Barnes

Maytime is a favorite of mine. Kind of long and lumbering but John Barrymore is great and at the end it packs an emotional wallop that makes it worthwhile.

Jeanette received a citation from the Screen Actor's Guild for her performance in "Maytime"

Maytime

Charles Drake

Ann Savage basically set the screen on fire in Detour. He played one of the meanest dames in cinema history and didn't try to get any audience sympathy.

He did?

Gay Nils Asther

Paulette Goddard.

Just kidding! She was awful. Who did she fuck for a career? She was incapable of delivering natural, believable performances.

^ Yes, Marion Levy was pretty bad.

I don't think Goddard was that bad.

Goddard is excellent in The Women.

Delilah-Judith!

Sylvia Siren