Theatre Gossip #424: "INSUFFERABLE: The New Fragrance From Old DL Theatre Queens!" Edition

Will one of you paid subscriber bitches post a link here in the old thread?

Thanks, doll.

Ramin noodle alert!

I guess none of you bitches saw [italic]All Dogs Go To Heaven.[/italic]

I never miss a Don Bluth musical

It was also the last Burt Reynolds movie musical alluded to in the last thread. I stumped you!

Leslie Kritzer seemed to be channeling Norma Desmond in her Fanny Brice performance of "The Music That Makes Me Dance." I don't know what some of you see in her.

Leslie as Fanny, reposted.

I liked it, but Leslie seems like... a lot.

She seems like a girl playing dress up as a Diva.

Link to previous thread.

Going back to the previous thread, giving Debbie Allen a Kennedy Center Award is fucking ridiculous. It's supposed to be for great ARTISTS not hacks who choreograph awards shows.

In the Hype

Most of Barbra Streisand's career has been hack. Doesn't she have a Kennedy Center honor?

At least she never tried a Cockney accent!

Anything Goes

Debbie Allen has had a nice career and she’s done admirable charity work but her KC honor is a puzzlement. Maybe next year they’ll honor Bethenny Frankel.

Does she tap in the video?

I saw Leslie in “Funny Girl” . . . it was hard to watch her at times. Everything was at 150% from the get-go and she over sang every song to the point of cracking during “The Music That Makes Me Dance”. It grew tiring after awhile. I blame the director who reportedly spoon-fed her every line and gesture.

R14, she look ridiculous.

Did Streisand attempt a cockney accent as Melinda Twelvetrees in ON A CLEAR DAY...?

I don't know anyone would be surprised that a musical about Dominicans in Washington Heights with no stars and no songs anyone's heard of would not interest audiences outside of NYC.

It didn’t help that you couldn’t tell what the movie was about from the trailers. It just looked a big, messy celebration of Wokeness. They probably should have chosen one of the two main romances and sold it as that story set in a particularly fun and close neighborhood.

[quote] I don't know anyone would be surprised that a musical about Dominicans in Washington Heights with no stars

I thought Lin-Manuel had enough clout to sell it. Hamilton is known all over the place.

[quote] It just looked a big, messy celebration of Wokeness.

Because it's about brown people?

While Washington Heights is great, movie musicals of any type are a hard sell nowadays.

Plus, no one outside of NYC has even heard of that musical.

Wokeness is a white thing. For most Americans, In the Heights looks like a musical about average people.

The Muny is doing Chicago with long-playing Lola J. Harrison Ghee (he/they, according to his own IG) as Velma.

...and a woman as Mary Sunshine. And Emily Skinner as Mama.

Maybe the crappy box office has something to do with streaming it for FREE???????

no r28 it doesn't. Your seven self-satisfied question marks notwithstanding, this Warner/HBOMax deal for Warner's entire slate was announced long ago, but thanks for playing.

J. Harrison Ghee as Velma is kind of genius. That will be fierce.

[quote]Wokeness is a white thing. For most Americans, In the Heights looks like a musical about average people.

Most Americans are white. Wokeness is a far-left white thing.

R18 is she lip-synching? She seems to go out of sync around the one-minute mark.

I heard a vinyl recording of Othello starring Paul Robeson and Uta Hagan. I still believe it is the finest Shakespearian performance I've ever heard, from both of therm. Despite other lackluster performances on Broadway, Hagan will always remain the greatest Desdemona to me.

Maybe there ought to be some Uta Hagen Audio Collection. Othello and Virginia Woolf are a good start.

Did she do any other audio recordings?

With any kind of luck r34, NOT a porn audio recording.

[quote]Did Streisand attempt a cockney accent as Melinda Twelvetrees in ON A CLEAR DAY...?

In one scene, yes.

Coming soon...Uta Hagen: The Deluxe Box Set. Featuring previously unreleased demos and remixes.

I saw Uta Hagen consorting with the Devil and she wasn’t even in a production of the Crucible!

[quote]Did Streisand attempt a cockney accent as Melinda Twelvetrees in ON A CLEAR DAY...?

I don't know that movie very well, but I'm pretty sure Melinda Twelvetrees is an upper-crust British character. That's the dialect required, and that's what Streisand did.

[quote]I don't know that movie very well, but I'm pretty sure Melinda Twelvetrees is an upper-crust British character. That's the dialect required, and that's what Streisand did.

She's an upper-class Brit with Cockney roots, and she does do a passable Cockney dialect in one short scene, as noted above.

R29, despite that deal, R28's question is still valid. If the movie hadn't also been made available for streaming at home, I'm sure more people who wanted to see it would've sought it out in theaters, which means it would've made more money at the box office. That doesn't mean it would've made $50 million this weekend but surely more than it did.

I just realize the last theater thread filled up in less than a week - from Tuesday to this morning.

r41 Variety and some experts don't think so

[quote] Robbins noted that recent offerings from Warner Bros. — particularly “Godzilla vs. Kong,” “Mortal Kombat” and “The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It” — each scored solid box office receipts despite opening on HBO Max at the same time.

My name is MAH-Leeeeeeen-DAH

Michael Hayden will be playing Capt vonTrapp at the Muny this summer.

Back in the day, many plays came out in vinyl form. I used to have Lenny, J.B., Major Barbara (with Maggie), and Macbird! (Stacy Keach and Rue)...

Macbird!

^oops

I have the original cast of Boys in the Band on vinyl

And Lenny

R45-Who'll be singing backstage for Michael? Andy Karl?

For a good Nathan Lane story, ask Roma Torre about the day he showed up drunk at NY1. t

I remember when we were young we had "Death of a Salesman' on vinyl, with Lee J. Cobb and Mildred Dunnock reprising their original roles as Willy and Linda Loman. Bernard was voiced by Dustin Hoffman, who, years later, played Willy in a Broadway revival. This version was recorded around 1966.

The Caedmon discography... I didn't know they'd recorded the Rosemary Harris/James Farentino Streetcar.

I LOVE Michael Hayden....Hot dad...

For all the Nathan Lane horror stories (I think someone in the previous thread said he once threw a chair at someone), is anyone surprised that he hasn't been canceled yet like Scott what's-his-face?

[quote]Plus, no one outside of NYC has even heard of that musical.

Seriously? I live in southern California and have seen three different productions of it -- at regional and community theaters.

r24 is talking out of his ass

I wondered what those stains were in his post, r58!

[quote][R24] is talking out of his ass

Pics please.

Thanks for the sexy noodles r2.

Unfortunately, an audio recording can’t capture Mr Farentino’s gorgeous hairy chest.

[quote] Seriously? I live in southern California and have seen three different productions of it -- at regional and community theaters.

I guess it should have read: no one outside of the coasts has even heard of that musical.

No one outside of theatre fans have heard of the show. West Side Story, they've heard of. Wicked, they've heard of. Hamilton, they've heard of. Lion King, they've heard of. Les Miz, Phantom, RENT; sure. But not In The Heights.

Well, R64 has certainly settled that debate.

I saw In The Heights at the performing arts high school in Culver City, it was a great show and the kids where incredibly talented. I had never seen a high school performance at a school of performing arts before and the level of talent was impressive. I did think it was too long, and I felt that way about the movie as well because there is just not enough story there and the love stories are not that compelling in the movie. The love stories in the high school version were better perhaps because the actors were so young they brought the right kind of youthful energy and that type of love that comes with it which is fresh and innocent.

I think if they ever think of doing it on Broadway or off, they should get the best performing arts high schoolers to do it. There really is something about the energy they bring that breathes the perfect kind of energy into the material. Otherwise, forget it.

[quote]I think if they ever think of doing it on Broadway or off, they should get the best performing arts high schoolers to do it.

What a great idea!

R66, it seems like you're somehow unaware that IN THE HEIGHTS has already played on Broadway (for almost three years), and prior to that, Off-Broadway. Can that be so?

Sorry dick at 68, I should have said, "if they ever think of doing it on Broadway or off, AGAIN." But I did not think I had to state it like that.

I should have known some prick with a pole stuck all the way up his theatrical ass would have said something.

It isn't Lee J. Cobb in the Death Of a Salesman recording, R53.

It is an original-cast rendering, but Willy Loman is played by Thomas Mitchell, who replaced Cobb during the run and then led the national tour.

At one stop, because of Arthur Milleer's politics, only one ticket was sold, and the stage managerv asked Mitchell, the de facto head of the troupe, if they should just cancel and give the customer his money back.

Mitchell said no, if he bought a ticket despite bthe controversy, we owe him our support.

Or something like that. And they performed the show for an audience of one.

At least that's the story they tell.

R70, the Thomas Mitchell recording is an earlier one from 1949-1950; the Lee J. Cobb recording is from 1966.

I saw that Streetcar at the Vivian Beaumont. That's the one where Farentino got out of bed nude. I saw him from the back and it was a magnificent back. Maybe the other side could see him from the front however he was angled upstage. It was very brief and on the dark side.

[quote]I think if they ever think of doing it on Broadway or off, they should get the best performing arts high schoolers to do it.

I'll handle the casting of the male roles.

Let's be real. Nathan never abused anyone. He was just a miserable curmudgeon who never got laid. Since his marriage to his partner, he has mellowed, he is happy, and he realizes how fortunate he is. Doesn't happen often.

R72-Of course he was nude. Ellis directed the production. Oscar and Felix would have been naked in "The Odd Couple" had Raab been the director.

^^ Rabb

Call Michele, r72, and ask her what you missed.

Just saw a print ad for "DOUBTFIRE: The New Musical Comedy."

Was this always the working title? When did it stop being "Mrs. Doubtfire?" Is this a tactic to fend off accusations of transphobia and misogyny? (I'm asking seriously, as this was one factor in TOOTSIE's undoing. That, and the fact that it sucked.)

I like Rob McClure, anyway.

[quote]Nathan never abused anyone.

That depends on what you mean by abuse, R74. He has made many a work place a miserable place to be.

R52 - Given we're not all hanging out at Bar Centrale with Roma and Riedel, give us the high points of her run-in with a boozy Lane!

I was at a party where Nathan hit her in the head with a fondue pot while singing Arrivederci, Roma.

[74] While I'm certain that marriage has improved his disposition, I don't think we can discount the fact of him getting sober. It certainly softened him.

That being said, I have a friend who was the stage manager on a show that Nathan was doing at the Mark Taper Forum. One night a light cue was called late, leaving Nathan on stage waiting for a blackout so he could clear. After the show, Nathan made a HUGE to-do out of it, even going so far as to throw a dressing room chair through one of the windows in his dressing room. My friend went to the producers/management of the MTF and told them no job was worth risking bodily harm and they could either bring Nathan up on charges with Equity, or accept his two week notice. Management told him "genius always comes with a little touch of madness." Nathan found out and proceeded to make my friend's life a living hell. Friend however denied, denied, denied that he was responsible for one of the bottles Nathan had to pour a drink from onstage being filled with urine.

I’m watching the 1970s British sitcom “Two’s Company” starring Elaine Stritch as a gruff American writer living in London who clashes with her stuffy British butler. I imagine Stritch got this from appearing in the West End “Company.”

At this time in the US, America was importing British shows and repackaging them for American audiences: All in the Family, Three’s Company/The Ropers and Sanford and Son.

Why was the US not creating a sitcom for Stritch?

Would the boss/English butler dynamic be too close to copying Family Affair’s Mr. French? Years later, the US got shows like Mr. Belvedere. And of course housekeepers were already a staple in sitcoms: Hazel, The Brady Bunch, Diff’rent Strokes.

Two's Company was imported and repackaged for Americans under the title The Two of Us. It starred Mimi Kennedy and Peter Cook.

[quote] Two's Company was imported and repackaged for Americans under the title The Two of Us.

I didn’t know that. I’ve never seen that show.

TWO'S COMPANY was a cute idea, but not really a great show. They managed to make Elaine dull.

There is at least one episode on YouTube. It might have been better if Mimi Kennedy with her flat deadpan had played the maid to the more florid Peter Cook's master.

Many people didn't, R85. It lasted slightly over one season in 1981-82.

No pickle, no performance, r82.

Wasn't Elaine Stritch in a British version of 'Maude' as well?

What's a "print ad"?

In the Heights is like a woke afterschool special. Blech.

Emily Skinner is a turd.

[quote] Wasn't Elaine Stritch in a British version of 'Maude' as well?

Yes, she was:

Didn't Stritch actually move to London for a few years in the late 60s or early 70s and become quite popular there on both stage and TV? Most people here know that Stritch was originally announced for Angela's London revival of Gypsy but the producers had to withdraw the offer when they couldn't raise the money on her name and then offer it Angela to get the funds.

Also, didn't she read for The Golden Girls?

[quote] Most people here know that Stritch was originally announced for Angela's London revival of Gypsy but the producers had to withdraw the offer when they couldn't raise the money on her name and then offer it Angela to get the funds.

Thank God.

[quote]Didn't Stritch actually move to London for a few years in the late 60s or early 70s and become quite popular there on both stage and TV?

Yes, she lived at The Savoy Hotel.

In her one woman show, she talks about auditioning for Golden Girls and being a real bitch to Susan Harris. Susan said she always wanted Bea Arthur for Dorothy. Maybe Stritch knew that and decided to fuck with her.

Elaine wouldn't have been believable as an Italian.

[quote]Maybe Stritch knew that and decided to fuck with her.

Stritch needed a reason to be a self-absorbed bitch on wheels?

I've worked with Skinner. She's lovely on stage and off...

[quote]"In the Heights is like a woke afterschool special. Blech."

It isn't my cup of tea, but it's kinda sweet. Who pissed in your cornflakes, r92?

[quote]Emily Skinner is a turd.

[quote]I've worked with Skinner. She's lovely on stage and off...

Yeah, I don't know r99, but I've also worked with Emily, who is a sweetheart

r99 sounds charming. You, r92?

Cornflakes are for midwestern farmers with pot bellies.

Cornflakes make great crispins, r101.

r92 what is wrong with you?

I recall CBS attempting an Americanized version of 'Upstairs Downstairs' called "Beacon Hill'. It limped along for a season in 1975 but it starred some notables like George Rose and Holland Taylor.

^ And the real Paul Rudd as the family chauffeur.

No there are complaints that in the Heights doesn’t have enough dark skinned Afro Latinos

Pigmentocracy

Speaking of British/American remakes, I recently learned that WHO'S THE BOSS? was remade in the UK as THE UPPER HAND. And it was quite successful there, too, running for 7 series/seasons in the '90s.

[quote]Sorry dick at 68, I should have said, "if they ever think of doing it on Broadway or off, AGAIN." But I did not think I had to state it like that.

Yes, you should have written (not said) that, if that's what you meant. But anyway, the fact that you would seriously suggest that IN THE HEIGHTS should be revived on or off Broadway with a cast of high school-age kids proves that your knowledge of how show business works is as poor as your writing ability.

Colbert just came back to a full audience for the first time in 15 months. The opening bit was Colbert about to go onstage when his pants, with a talking fly, reminds him that they have to be worn again. They then sang and danced "Together Wherever We Go" with updated lyrics. It was cuter than I made it sound. The audience is euphoric.

R108: Wow, the British are almost as stupid as Americans.

I saw that, R110. I agree it was cute. I just wish they hadn't digitized his crotch (I think Colbert is hot).

R107 I’m glad he’s being called out for this, I lived in a Brooklyn Neighborhood with people from the DR and worked at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, which drew many DR families from the Heights and those people are not represented in this film. It would have been even more interesting if he said the higher ups wouldn’t let him make it if he didn’t cast light skinned leads. But even the actors in the movie looked lighter then some of them do in real life, and it didn’t look as if it was actually filmed in the summer. For what was supposed to be a scorching hot heatwave, the light looked very “seasonally cool” and when there was a warm glow it was obviously reflected lighting onto the actors and not natural.

Does anyone remember that '90s show on Comedy Central STRANGERS WITH CANDY, which satirized Afterschool Specials? It starred Stephen Colbert and Amy Sedaris. Anyway, there was an episode where Colbert (the high school's history teacher) was posing nude for art class and there was a brief shot where you could see things dangling.

R114 And he had sex with Mr Jellyneck, in the toliets.

R113, my friend was in the film, and it was indeed shot in the summer of 2019.

Thinking about Broadway actors and '70s TV leads me to one question: How did Alice Playten somehow not end up on a sitcom?

Anyone remember a really funny play from the 90s called PARTY? It popped into my mind, because one of the campy characters (a priest) comments on. the host's display of several theater posters - each featuring a different actress who played Charity Hope Valentine (Gwen Verdon, Juiet Prowse, etc.). He praises each of the actors for some element of their performance, but when he gets to the last poster, with DL favorite Debbie Allen, all he can say is something like "SHAME! Shame on you for those Academy Awards!"

I guess you had to be there, but it brought down the house.

"In the Heights" would probably be a sizeable hit if they'd cast Olivia Rodrigo.

Debbie isn't responsible for Ann Reinking's "Against All Odds" number, is she?

Know he’s not Latino, but Shawn Mendes would have helped too if they were going light skinned and not limiting to DR actors. He could have played the cousin instead of that kid who jaw kept sliding sideways all the time.

BOTTOME LINE: Hollywood needs to get it together again and realize once and for all that viewers want their movie characters to be beautiful! That's what gets butts in the seats and viewers to watch.

R118 "Party" also featured DL controversial sorta-fave David Pevsner among the actors, all who get nude playing a "Truth or Dare" game and singing along to a track/tribute to Karen Carpenter for the finale. It was a hoot actually.

Over in London, ALW is getting savaged. Originally, England was meant to reopen fully from 21 June, but thanks to Boris and Brexit (he was so desperate to get a trade deal with India that he avoided putting it on the red list for travel, allowing the delta variant to flood the country) it's now been delayed by four weeks.

ALW had previously said he'd open his godawful production of Cinderella anyway, and be willing to go to prison. In the press conference yesterday, Boris revealed ALW had been secretly lobbying him, and it seems Cinderella may be given special permission to open at full capacity as a 'pilot'. Something it seems no other West End show will be offered. So whilst claiming to be advancing the cause of British theatre in general, seems ALW was only concerned with his latest flop opening to a full house.

ALW is, of course, a Tory. In fact he used to sit in the House of Lords as a Tory peer.

[R107] I’m glad he’s being called out for this, I lived in a Brooklyn Neighborhood with people from the DR and worked at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, which drew many DR families from the Heights and those people are not represented in this film. It would have been even more interesting if he said the higher ups wouldn’t let him make it if he didn’t cast light skinned leads. But even the actors in the movie looked lighter then some of them do in real life, and it didn’t look as if it was actually filmed in the summer. For what was supposed to be a scorching hot heatwave, the light looked very “seasonally cool” and when there was a warm glow it was obviously reflected lighting onto the actors and not natural.

It's a fucking movie, for God's sake. he should have told the SJW critics to fuck off.

R110, did Sondheim contribute the new lyrics for Colbert?

r113 perhaps so--but meanwhile there's a MAJOR mainstream movie and TV release with Latino stars, Latino story, Latino creator and Asian director, getting a MAJOR (not niche) marketing push. That's MAJOR progress. Not even "baby steps" of bullshit inclusion, but a significant stride. I'm not saying "they" should be happy with what they get, but acknowledging the progress and encouraging it to go deeper and richer would be better—more strategically effective than slamming it. If the movie does great, there will be more. If it has a faint stink of racist controversy, it will not...and no one will dare make another. Be strategic.

[quote]Thinking about Broadway actors and '70s TV leads me to one question: How did Alice Playten somehow not end up on a sitcom?

Two reasons. She always “read” as a little girl on screen. Here she is at 28, still playing teenage girl. And she wasn’t a good actress.

[Quote] If it has a faint stink of racist controversy, it will not...and no one will dare make another. Be strategic.

I hate this line or argument. It was said about HBO's Looking as well.

That is not my point at all r129. Help the movie succeed and talk strategically about the next step Hollywood needs to take. Not grateful, but be on the right side of progress.

I have nothing against "In the Heights." But art should succeed or fail on its own merits. No one should feel they have to support it because it features members of their own group.

Like everything else debated via the internet, there is no nuance and no middle-ground.

Everyone was mad at Madonna because she wasn’t an Argentine playing Evita. So the next go round they cast Elena Roger, a true Argentine. They realized that political correctness didn’t sell tickets.

Also Heights took risks on non-stars named of all Latinx performers. Definitely: cancel them.

[Quote] So the next go round they cast Elena Roger, a true Argentine. They realized that political correctness didn’t sell tickets.

?

The original Evita ran on Broadway for four years. The revival ran nine months. Ricky’s fan club didn’t show up at the box office.

The original EVITA had no stars.

Ricky was leaving when his contract was up r136 and the show couldn't go on without him

Ricky may have sold tix, but he was a terrible Che, constantly turning on his charm and smiling weirdly at the audience.

R124 I can’t remember when ALW had a hit show.

[Quote] smiling weirdly

Can relate.

R131 confuses the movies with art. Don't do that, R131.

Movies are corporate products crafted for the primary purpose of making money. All decisions flow from the box office.

Art is something else entirely.

Don't patronize.

This is bad, poorly sang and produced. Why have they released this at all (back then)?

Because there was an Easy Listening market back then?

R144 Your grammar is bad and poorly wrote.

[quote] [R124] I can’t remember when ALW had a hit show.

To be fair, School of Rock was a hit.

[quote]I’m glad he’s being called out for this, I lived in a Brooklyn Neighborhood with people from the DR and worked at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, which drew many DR families from the Heights and those people are not represented in this film. It would have been even more interesting if he said the higher ups wouldn’t let him make it if he didn’t cast light skinned leads.

This bullshit is appalling.. Given the tremendous pressure to include Africa-Americans in all movies, do you SERIOUSLY think IN THE HEIGHTS avoided casting darker-skinned Latinx performers in the leads? If anything, I would think they would have given a preference to darker people. Isn't it conceivable that no one whose agents submitted them for the leads happened to be darker skinned (other than Corey Hawkins, who plays the one African-American leading role)? And if that's true, are you SERIOUSLY suggesting they should have gone out of their way to find darker-skinned performers who could handle some of those roles, and then told their original choices, "Sorry, we can't cast you after all because you're too light, and that would cause controversy?" I am sorry that Miranda and Chu have caved on this matter, and I devoutly wish that you and all other brainwashed troublemakers would shut the fuck up.

[quote]But even the actors in the movie looked lighter then some of them do in real life, and it didn’t look as if it was actually filmed in the summer. For what was supposed to be a scorching hot heatwave, the light looked very “seasonally cool” and when there was a warm glow it was obviously reflected lighting onto the actors and not natural.

Pathetically, embarrassingly wrong. No surprise that the same idiot made both of the above comments.

[Quote] If anything, I would think they would have given a preference to darker people.

Bless your heart.

R148 seems not to know much about Caribbean Latinos or about Washington Heights.

You won't find many places where the lightness of your skin counts for more than it does in the Caribbean. You won't find many places were dark skin is less valued socially.

The Latino population of New York City is heavily comprised of people with Africa in the their DNA. Eliminating them from the movie is a very big deal, indeed.

[quote]You won't find many places where the lightness of your skin counts for more than it does in the Caribbean. You won't find many places were dark skin is less valued socially. The Latino population of New York City is heavily comprised of people with Africa in the their DNA. Eliminating them from the movie is a very big deal, indeed.

Are you saying there should have been more darker-skinned leads in IN THE HEIGHTS to justify the racism of those who feel that "the lightness of your skin counts" and that "dark skin is less valued socially?"

Your reasoning skills are dreadful, r151.

R146 So? English isn’t my first language.

Unreleased material. This was meant to be the sequal for TBA. Instead BTB was released five years later.

r92 here. I, too, worked with Skinner during the chubby, unpleasant years. She was indeed a turd.

I loathe LMM, but I'm damned if I think he should be publicly flogged in this case. It's not his job to fix the world via the casting of one kind of mediocre movie.

And it gets so many things right for the Latinx community.

[quote] ALW had previously said he'd open his godawful production of Cinderella anyway, and be willing to go to prison.

We have been calling for him to go to jail for about 50 years now.

R 154-Maybe it was left unreleased because it sounded too much like ALW's "Memory"?

Is it wrong to steal from a thief?

Interestingly, although it takes place in Washington Heights, IN THE HEIGHTS doesn't particularly focus on just Dominicans. In fact, it makes a point that there is a melding of Caribbean cultures there-- DR, PR, Cuba, etc

The revival of Evita would have played longer is Elena Roger was any good. Plus the sets and direction were both so flat.

I can't understand how Roger was lauded in England. Her nasal, underpowered voice was terrible, made worse by the fact that every single audience member has Lupone's voice in their ears.

I went to London two years ago and saw a revival of Evita in Regents Park--totally rethought, sexier, younger--phenomenal. The Evita, American Samantha Pauli, although no Lupone, was fantastic. In fact, she was able to make the role her own--instead of a steam engine, like Lupone, Pauli was subtler.

The revival of Gypsy would have played longer is Patty Lapone was any good.

What about [italic]Noises Off…[/italic]?

^^ Multiple "oh, dears." ^^

No, the revival of Gypsy would have played longer if it hadn't been the fourth in 18 years.

^^ Multiple "who gives a fucks." ^^

R163, Lupone is my favorite Gypsy. I think the reason it didn't play longer is NY has had way too many Gypsy revivals. STOP ALREADY WITH GYPSY AFTER F'NG GYPSY!!

How do you explain War Paint?

Fine, [italic]Flahooley[/italic] it is.

[quote]How do you explain War Paint?

Flop ideas create flop musicals.

R148 It was pointed out to the multi-ethnic class in social studies by an African-American teacher years ago that when some blacks get engaged, the mother of the groom prefer to see the prospective bride is a lighter color than the man. (Or was it the other way around?) I do recall this was said, and it was kind of shocking.

R169, terrible musical. EVERYONE went to see the two stars

[Quote] I do recall this was said, and it was kind of shocking.

Why would it be shocking?

[Quote] EVERYONE went to see the two stars

Who did they think they were going to see?

R174 It seemed to imply Grandmas wanted lighter grandchildren, among other things, and that lighter in general was the way to do as far as the spouse.

the way to "go"

LuPone should have won the Tony over Bette “I’m Croaking Now Before I Croak” Middler.

Midler was dreadful in Hello, Dolly. It wasn't a performance, it was a nightclub act.

Oops, ‘Midler’

[quote]It seemed to imply Grandmas wanted lighter grandchildren, among other things, and that lighter in general was the way to do as far as the spouse.

I guess this is going to be this theater thread's version of the colorblind casting debate that stunk up an earlier thread.

Many a night club act won the star a Tony.

[quote] Who did they think they were going to see?

Certainly not the show. Even the star wattage couldn't guarantee a long run. The show was blah

[quote] Midler was dreadful in Hello, Dolly. It wasn't a performance, it was a nightclub act.

Midler was great in the role and I'm not even a huge Midler fan.

Bernadette Peters was even better. Bernie so funny!

I have never liked anything Peters was in, which is why I skipped her Dolly.

I cant stand that kewpiedoll voice.

Most cultures prefer lighter skinned people. It indicates a higher upbringing, because they didn't have to work outdoors. Hence the white make-up for classic British royalty and Asian society.

[quote] Many a night club act won the star a Tony.

Lena, dear, you won a SPECIAL Tony. You weren't even nominated in the acting category.

Well, poo poo pe do, yourself!

[quote][R110], did Sondheim contribute the new lyrics for Colbert?

I doubt it. They were crude with imperfect rhymes. But funny.

The original London production from 1993. It might have been here before but someone posted again.

Is all this controversy about In the Heights covering up the biggest issue with the movie? The story is shit. You don't care about any of the characters or their nothing conflicts. It's the typical boy meets girl bullshit, but just with Latin actors. I'm happy that Latin actors are getting representation. It's long overdue, but I wish they were being used to tell a much better story. I was shocked by how lightweight the movie was. Mamma Mia had more heft and conflict.

Thought Midler was just fine, Bernadette pretty good (and I'm not a fan of hers post-SUNDAY, and Murphy was really trying too hard (and I am a fan).

Bern...

Bernadette was the best Dolly all around. She was charming and funny and very moving in her few dramatic scenes. Bette was an event and nailed all the comedy, but her dramatic scenes were rushed and made you feel nothing. I was also surprised by how raspy her voice was. I never thought of Dolly as a tough sing, but seeing both her and Betty Buckley attempt to sing that score was a little depressing.

She really does nail the oak leaf speech, r195.

[quote] but I wish they were being used to tell a much better story. I was shocked by how lightweight the movie was.

...because Musicals are known for their complex and gripping story lines?

You bitches have all forgotten about me. My brief cameo scene as The Tourist in IN THE HEIGHTS was edited out but I'm glad because Lin didn't want me to have a musical number and I was ready for it. I was also approached to replace Bernadette in DOLLY but I don't do third-hand slop. Considering a return to Broadway in a revival of GYPSY and knock Merman off that fucking mantle. Don't challenge me. I've planted my own fucking tree and I can do it again.

R197 Yes. ITH has zero story, zero drama, zero anything.

I'm so shocked that DL would have such negative reactions to a Lin-Manuel Miranda movie.

^^ Said no one ever ^^

Whenever ever I see pictures or video of that Hello Dolly! it looks like it was designed as a cartoon nightmare.

R156 On the other hand, he did sign that We See You White Theater letter, so if he is going to join in on lecturing others, is it not fair to say he should practice what he preaches?

R199, the story was the neighborhood itself and the people who live there. The drama was the approaching social and physical gentrification.

[quote] The show was blah

r183 you are WAY too kind

BTW, OP, there's only *one* fragrance for the Theatre Gossip threads.

Has anyone questioned why LMM appropriated a DR story instead of telling a PR story? He went to a good college where this was his senior project and cultural appropriation issues are a big deal. Did none of his professors not say focus on your own peoples? I know “In the Spanish Haarlem” doesn’t have the same ring as “In the Heights,” but why isn’t this about the PR culture?

How about this, R207?

Because it's wrong to throttle artists and force them to work in troughs assigned to them by others.

Artists must be free to do any damned thing they want to do. It's their purpose as artists. They uniquely have dominion over what interests them. And it is no one's place to limit them in any fucking way.

I did not catch it but in Miami a lot of folks ask, "Why give a Dominican character a Cuban name?" Apparently Usnavi is the kind of name Cubans make up---not Dominicans.

One of your own kind, Lin. Stick to your own kind.

I loves me some Bernadette but damn her face can't make a single expression. I guess she's had more work done that I thought.

[quote]Has anyone questioned why LMM appropriated a DR story instead of telling a PR story?

Because there is already a successful Puerto Rican musical and he probably didn't want his compared to that.

I have one expression - the pout. But I can work it into any role and any song.

That pout managed to give her a very lengthy career.

Lin-Manuel could have avoided all this mess by having some of the cast wear Lena Horne's "Light Egyptian."

R207 Good point. Didn't his Dad work for cunty Ed Koch?

LMM gave his father profit points in Hamilton for being a creative consultant or some such nonsense.

[quote]LMM gave his father profit points in Hamilton for being a creative consultant or some such nonsense.

I think it was decided that LMM had to give the profit points out of his share as the other investors didn't accept his father as a contributing factor.

Bernie and Donna are both widows so it made the ‘let me go’ speech that much more touching. It was the highlight of both performances.

The only person more insufferable than LMM is his ubiquitous papa.

I noticed Seven Year Itch was on. I've never seen it because I don't have any interest in it. But it got me curious about the play. It ran three years. Vanessa Brown had one Broadway credit before she was cast as The Girl. And then she died.

R198- Ok, I'll play. Who the fuck are you?

Always thought Betty Buckley had rather a steely voice, but given how it has sounded recently, it seems like her technique rather was built on rusting the steel as she sang, unfortunately.

I'm not especially fond of Lin, but this feels like an especially half-hearted/third-rate attempt to find something wrong with him (and to a lesser extent, ITH).

Vanessa Brown

R218 At least from the articles I've read, his father gets his own 1% of the net profits since recoupment. Lin does pay Ron Chernow from his share of royalties though (and gets 3% of net profit himself)

In the West End, the role in THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH was played by Rosemary Harris.

So you’re asking what Jackie Hoffman’s up to these days?

R221, the film version of 7YI is on Movies!tv right now.

[quote]Has anyone questioned why LMM appropriated a DR story instead of telling a PR story? He went to a good college where this was his senior project and cultural appropriation issues are a big deal. Did none of his professors not say focus on your own peoples? I know “In the Spanish Haarlem” doesn’t have the same ring as “In the Heights,” but why isn’t this about the PR culture?

Has anyone pointed out to you -- since you didn't take the trouble to find this out for yourself -- that various lead and supporting characters in IN THE HEIGHTS are designated as being from such places as Puerto Rico and Cuba as well as the Dominican Republic? Oh, and has anyone told you you're a shit-stirring moron?

Oh, and IN THE HEIGHTS is not "a DR story," it's a story of a mixed, mostly Latinx community in NYC narrated by a character from the Dominican Republic.

Most belters don't age well vocally.

Merman and Dolores Gray had their voices pretty much most of their careers.

Betty Lynn has always had to sing for her supper/ranch, Merman and Gray didn't.

[quote]So you’re asking what Jackie Hoffman’s up to these days?

How has the poor thing survived the past 15 months without having any scenery to chew on?

I assumed she's been passing her time via web series.

Where are the articles about how all the relationships in INT are heterosexual ?

Oh, don't look for Miss Miranda to go near that. It would have closed the show before it ever got going. Damned few tickets would have been sold. Not to mention questions it would have raised about its none-too-butch author.

You better not be suggesting he's one of ours.

Why were the main girls, thin ? No big Latinaxes ? Why was abuela not trans ?

Oh, come on. He's a jerk and all that, but he's allowed to write the show he wants to write without representing everyone in the universe, and we're allowed to reject it. But we don't get to dictate to him. And do we really suppose he was the casting director?

This is just a storm in a teacup to promote the movie. I see "Celebrity X Cancelled?" stories all the time, suspiciously when said celebrity is launching a project.

He really should have just said, Fuck you, go make your own movie.

exactly, r243. but then he would have forfeited the opportunity to do his humble mea culpa, encouraging all his supporters to tweet and comment about his virtue.

we are entering a time when EVERY show, EVERY movie, EVERY TV show is going to get called out for [italic]something[/italic]. It's almost as tiresome as r230

The Book of Mormon will return on Nov. 5. Rudin's no longer a producer. That leaves West Side Story.

[quote]I have one expression - the pout. But I can work it into any role and any song.

You need to work on that.

r247 - Fanny, I think you're exaggerating your gradations. Well...Bob Merrill was, anyway.

Rags

Now we have colorism? Someone needs to take a stand. It's too bad the powers of the film don't have balls.

Love Rita Moreno

“You can never do right, it seems,” Moreno continued. “This is the man who literally has brought Latino-ness and Puerto Rican-ness to America. I couldn’t do it. I would love to say I did, but I couldn’t. Lin-Manuel has done that really singlehandedly, and I’m thrilled to pieces and I’m proud that he produced my documentary.”

Colbert then asked: “So are you saying that while you may understand where people’s concerns come from, that perhaps it’s misplaced in criticizing him in this?”

“Well I’m simply saying, can’t you just wait a while and leave it alone?” Moreno responded. “There’s a lot of people who are Puertorriqueños, who are also from Guatemala, who are dark and who are also fair. We are all colors in Puerto Rico. And this is how it is, and it would be so nice if they hadn’t come up with that and just left it alone, just for now. I mean, they’re really attacking the wrong person.”

The pendulum is gonna do what the pendulum does.

"Leave it alone, just for now." Fuck off, Rita.

Is Jane Powell's 1975 album "Love To You, and Broadway Too" worth a listen?

Ah, yes. This would be the same Rita Moreno who is currently claiming that she was "this close" to turning down the WSS movie because she was unwilling to sing the lyrics to "America." "I couldn't d that to my people." But, she says, a producer convinced Sondhiem to chainge the offending lyric and saved the day. Sort of not true; lyric change had nothing to do with Moreno's delicate sensibilities. And oddly, she had no difficulty playing Googie Gomez.

This woman is a piece of work.

Yes r255 by all means judge her by her opinions about racism from 1961 and 1975

She's a narcissistic actress. OF COURSE, the logic appears to swing in opposing directions with her.

That's because you're looking at all of it incorrectly. Statements ALWAYS swings in the way that favors Rita Moreno. In that way, she's extremely consistent.

Like when she protested being placed in the supporting actress category while accepting her Tony award.

[quote] Has anyone questioned why LMM appropriated a DR story instead of telling a PR story?

Um, it's not a DR story. Only Usnavi is from DR. Everyone else is from Puerto Rico, Cuba, etc.

Well Rita did belong in the Lead Actress TONY category so she wasn’t wrong. Neither was George Rose when he was placed in supporting for My Fat Friend yet won a Lead Tony for his supporting role as Doolittle in MFL.

[Quote] Well Rita did belong in the Lead Actress TONY category so she wasn’t wrong.

Then she should have bowed out...

Just take the effing Tony. And keep it.

The Tony Committee remakes and revises the rules every year to suit its own business and marketing needs. The whole thing is just a marketing exercise anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for Rags. I saw it a couple of times and saw the workshop a few times as I had a friend working on it. The title song is great and check out "Three Sunny Rooms" at around 1:30. That tune has been stuck in my head for almost 40 years.

Incidentally, how come Mandy Matinkin was nominated (and won) for Featured Actor in a Musical for EVITA? Che is on stage almost as much as Eva and has as much to sing, being the narrator and all.

R253 what did she mean by "for now"?

As in "let us get our foot in the door, and then we'll give prominent roles to darkies, faggots etc."

to r256. No darling, I'm judging by her self-serving and not entirely true statement last week. But now that you mention it, I don't really believe she almost gave up that role out of loyalty to "her people."

[quote] Well Rita did belong in the Lead Actress TONY category so she wasn’t wrong.

[quote]Then she should have bowed out...—Julie Andrews

Yet she won an Oscar despite being dubbed, you cuntface!

R268 Well, Eleanor Parker deserved the nomination you got, Pegs.

To correct someone's misunderstanding above, casting directors do not make casting decisions. That's usually the purview of the director and producers, usually in consultation with the rest of the creative team, esp. the author(s). What CDs do is make recommendations about who gets to audition. saving the hours of time an open call would require.

Of course, situations may vary wildly from production to production but the above is generally how it's done.

[italic]The Sound of Music[/italic] needs to be canceled because Richard Haydn did yellowface on [italic]Bewitched.[/italic]

LIZA!

Bruce Springsteen on Broadway to Require Audiences Be Vaccinated:

Good thing I hate Springsteen anyway.

Streep and Kline in Sarah Ruhl play (streaming):

Andrew Rannells: What Words Can I Give You That Will Comfort Me?

[quote]The Book of Mormon will return on Nov. 5.

It needn't have bothered, as far as I'm concerned.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1937, "The Cradle Will Rock" opened at the Venice Theatre.

So no Bruce for AZ recipients?

And:

Rita is Rita and not Chita

Who does Liza like?

Incidentally, I recently met a woman who named her daughter after the manufactured woman in the movie WEIRD SCIENCE. That character was named Lisa, except this woman spelled it Liza and pronounced it Leeza. I didn't get her logic, either.

[quote]Thanks for Rags. I saw it a couple of times and saw the workshop a few times as I had a friend working on it. The title song is great and check out "Three Sunny Rooms" at around 1:30. That tune has been stuck in my head for almost 40 years.

There are so many nice things about "Rags". I wish they had been able to make it work. I guess "Ragtime" has overtaken it covering some of the same material. I had heard that "Rags" was a continuation of "Fiddler on the Roof" telling the story about what happened to the immigrants when they came to the US.

It's interesting to see RAGS after all these years, but just from the first few minutes you can see that there wasn't a good team at work. The immigrant stuff is great. The "Greenhorns" stuff is tremendous. But you never know where to look or what the point of the scene is. It's too fractured and too bitty. Tons of great material, but no one to shape it properly.

Where in the RAGS video is If We Never Meet Again?

"Rags" tries to do too much -- seeming to continue "Fiddler on the Roof" plus add some of the protesting from "Fiorello!' and add the Triangle Waistcoat Fire tragedy -- and killing off a major sympathetic character in the middle of the show off-stage after she's sung the show-stopping title number seemed really wrong! But Stratas was great, and the score has some terrific numbers in it. It needed to be streamlined in its story-telling though. And let Judy Kuhn live!

They shoulda learned from that Towering Inferno/Jennifer Jones mistake, r287!

I remember Charles Strouse saying it was loosely the continuation of Fiddler. He did write some wonderful music for it. Yes Judy belting out the title number was thrilling. I remember a girl named Trini Alvarado play the part in the workshop.

I saw Rags in previews. What a mess, but full of really magnificent stuff. Children Of The Wind was worth the price of admission.

Poor Judy, she also had to do the Lez Miz number.

Feel bad for them on the Tony Awards. The show had already closed by the time they performed that. It had been nearly a year since the musical had flopped and they probably wanted to forget about it and move on. But kudos to them because they did issue a cast album.

R292. Sadly, without the magnificent Stratus. But Julia Migenes did a lovely job.

I grew up on Bruce Springsteen--"Born To Run" was a seminal album for me as a kid--but damn, his Bway show was so unbelievably boring and low-energy. Whatever voice he had is pretty much gone. Color me underwhelmed.

one of rarely mentioned problems with Rags, which I love, is that after a overture, all the very best songs are then loaded right up front. After Summer Night, with the exception of the title number, its a gradual decline until the end.

[quote] and killing off a major sympathetic character in the middle of the show off-stage after she's sung the show-stopping title number seemed really wrong!

It happens.

"Born To Run" is a horrible song.

^ should have been "an exciting overture."

^ and "it's", not "its".

Larry Kert was dreadfully miscast. It was sad watching him try to make something out of a crappy part.

I hate it when musicals do that too, R295. Any number of them start out strong then feel like straight plays towards the end. Or the only musical numbers become overly ponderous and serious toward the end. I like a show with great and varied songs baked in, thanks.

What has Iowa done to deserve a song by Rodgers and Hammerstein and a song by Meredith Willson?

[quote]What has Iowa done to deserve a song by Rodgers and Hammerstein and a song by Meredith Willson?

In the abysmal second movie version of Rodgers and Hammerstein's "State Fair," which featured Ann-Margret and Pat Boone, their song "All I Owe, I Owe Iowa" was cut because the setting was changed to the Texas State Fair.

Nancy isn't killed off after singing the title number of "Oliver!". Plus, she's killed off pretty late in the show, after 4 big songs.

R113, one of my friends was on the full time crew of In the Heights. He said shooting took place between late April and mid July, running almost directly along West Side Story’s shoot schedule, which was late May to early September. They were even shooting blocks apart from one another for a few days. I forgot to ask him if he knew of anyone with a decent role in ITH managed to juggle it with a role in WSS.

To a poster from the previous thread-I don’t think Betty Buckley was in a BBC Radio production of Gypsy. I did see her perform Desiree in A Little Night Music for BBC Radio 2 at their recording hall in Golders Green in London, though. When she made her teensy “adjustment” in the melody of “Send in the Clowns” I had a feeling Sondheim would be pissed.

Didn't Betty Lynn do a solo album of Sondheim that allegedly pissed him off because of the endless "adjustments" she made singing and the new orchestra tracks?

^ I did some checking and Buckley's Sondheim was called "Children Will Listen" and yes, Sondheim was reportedly highly displeased with it and told her so.

Sondheim is never happy about anyone's attempts to cover his songs outside the context of his shows, it seems. But he still gets paid either way.

I wouldn't expect people on a theater thread to understand Bruce Springsteen.

R309 Ha. Bruce does not understand Broadway.

How is Springsteen so complicated that one must understand him and that a love of theater prevents that? I’m truly baffled by that statement?

"Born to Run" reminds me of Bonnie & Clyde.

He's a one-percenter's idea of a proletariat.

I'm amazed Bruce still has his voice and Julie Andrews lost hers! Not that his ever approached something besides a gruff yell from the start.

Lots of singers over 60 still manage not to lose their voices.

R312 But Born to Run is the epitome of NJ and B&C are all about the Midwest? Geographically they don’t mesh for me.

How come Barbra can make adjustments to Sondheim but Betty can't?

Steve did love my upbeat cover of "Send in the Clowns"!

[quote]Lots of singers over 60 still manage not to lose their voices.

Thank you, R315.

[quote]Barbara Cook, taking a break from a heavenly choir

Oh, Barbara, nobody ever listened to you. They were more interested in watching me try on my new shoes.

Why has Encores canceled LOVE LIFE?!?

Canceled or postponed, R321?

I'm disappointed, as I had tickets to see it in the 2020 season. I have limited interest in the 3 shows they're doing instead... INTO THE WOODS (with high school students? seriously, WTF?) least of all.

[quote]Yes [R255] by all means judge her by her opinions about racism from 1961 and 1975

Sorry, but that strange story about the lyrics of "America" being changed because of her objections was from a very recent quote.

You wanna talk bad lyrics? How about these babies from Oscar Hammerstein:

Your fond of bonds and you own a lot, I have a plane and a diesel yacht

Why not:

Your fond of bonds and you own so much, I have a plane and the Midas touch

or

Your fond of food and you like to eat, I like to drink from your Austri'n meat

or

Your fond of Max when he's on his back, I'm fond of Max when he shows his cack.

You're

It happens so much now I didn't even clock that r325. Yikes!

Thank you for pointing that out.

ACT is streaming “Tales of the City: The Musical!”

The audience didn't care, r303. They were there for Ann-Margret's vavoom.

I was briefly working in San Francisco when TALES OF THE CITY was playing at ACT and caught the show. I thought it was awful. Lots of miscast roles, including Judy Kaye as Mrs. Madrigal, a talented actress with none of the earthy whimsiness of the character, and DL fave Wes Taylor as a rather snide and most un-charming Michael Mouse. It was all way over-produced with tacky sets and costumes. The TV series was wise to tone down the worst looks of the 1970s in decor and clothing but this production seemed to glory in all the tackiness. It did not make a case for a nostalgic San Francisco.

But I'd be curious to hear from others who saw it or will watch the streaming version.

Rita Moreno Says “I’m Disappointed in Myself” Following ‘In the Heights’ Colorism Defense:

[quote] Rita Moreno Says “I’m Disappointed in Myself”

We're disappointed in you too, Rita.

Stars In The House streamed today with the "Guys and Dolls" cast from the 1992 revival.

Nathan Lane (Nathan Detroit), Peter Gallagher (Sky), Faith Prince (Adelaide), Josie de Guzman (Sarah), Walter Bobbie (Nicely-Nicely Johnson), Ruth Williamson (General Cartwright), and director Jerry Zaks.

R331 Hey, she's 90!

Chita and Rita couldn't compare to...Sylvia!

I loved the Rita documentary that released yesterday. Sister Pete is one of my favourite TV characters, and I have always adored Rita. When she talks about the relief when her husband died, what a wonderful honest woman.

In the last 10 days or so I have heard and seen enough of Rita Moreno to last the rest of my life. She is really tiresome as hell.

R336 Well. that seems misdirected, She is neat.

Chita's lavish, bizarre screen test for a film version of Carnival! that never got made. It was directed by Gower Chanpion. It's been rumored that this test also cost her Bye, Bye Birdie.

In that Chita Rivera Screen Test, she gives her real (and very long) name. The interviewer asks her to say it in a Jose Jimenez voice, and she does! It's one of the most cringeworthy things I've ever seen (at about the 1:00 point.)

R338, can you please tell us what you consider "lavish" about the Chita screen test? It's a one-camera shot of her sitting and talking for nine and half minutes.

R339, that is known as an authentic Puerto Rican Spanish accent, not a "Jose Jimenez voice." And the "interviewer" is Gower Champion.

P.S. Both of you are morons.

Here she is, boys! Here she is, world! Here's Stritch!

Elaine at 5:60....

I'm pissed that Rita apologized and walked back her comments. She's far too old and experienced to suffer the twitter mob.

Wow! How quickly these TG threads fill up, given that there's no real live theatre occurring to speak of.

Carry on.

HA!

Rita Moreno is GHAAAAAASTLY!

We've had several conversations about this on threads lately.

Any word yet on what's going to happen with Plaza Suite or Harry Potter?

Chita was never considered for the movie of BBB. Her name was mentioned and the movie execs correctly said she is not right for the movies. Even in that screen test, she looks in her 50s. And her angular features do indeed allow her to make any role into a villain. Rita was also not considered. Probably because the studios felt that an interracial romance between a real Latina and DVD would kill the movie.

r345 ...who is we?

Rita Moreno is a real phony. Not a phony phony.

[quote] Anyone remember a really funny play from the 90s called PARTY?

No, but I remember a really bad, embarrassing play from the 90s called Party. The only performer I remember was nam d Ted Bales, playing a show queen priest, and I remember him because he was so unattractive, like Margaret Hamilton’s uglier younger brother.

The most interesting thing about that Chita screen test is her mentioning that she's been in talks for a revival of Gypsy. At that time or maybe until the mid-80's or so, Chita would have made a very interesting Rose. She's always been a much better actress than she's been given credit for.

[quote] It's been rumored that this test also cost her Bye, Bye Birdie.

It couldn’t have. Bye Bye Birdie started filming in May,1962, & was finished by the end of summer (except the reshoots when the title song was added). Chita’s test was in spring 1963.

Yvette Mimieux was going to be Lili in that Carnival that never happened.

Chita's "Rose's Turn" is on Youtube. It's not up to much. And it wouldn't have been a revival of "Gypsy" as the show didn't play London until the 1970s.

I apologize for my errors introducing the Chita test.

[quote] Rita was also not considered. Probably because the studios felt that an interracial romance between a real Latina and DVD would kill the movie.

A romance between a Latina and DIck Van Dyke would not be "interracial."

The world had lived through I Love Lucy by then bringing a white and a latino couple into American homes for years. Also years before mexicans Gilbert Roland and Dolores Del Rio had been a huge stars.

R356 But not the same bed! Hell, Rob and Laurie couldn’t sleep together neither!

Look for Plaza Suite sometime in the spring r346

[quote]Look for Plaza Suite sometime in the spring [R346]

Or better yet... DON'T!

Director John Benjamin Hickey was on WWHL the other night and said Plaza Suite would be opening early next year. I guess SJP will squeeze it in between SATC and Hocus Pocus.

SJP is arguably a bigger star than Midler these days. I pity the scriptwriter(s).

^^^ I read that to fast and saw “cryptwriters” and thought, yeah that works!

We signed up for The New York Times theater email newsletter and the one that showed up yesterday featured FIVE stories about In the Heights, including one about the casting controversy. But please the Lin manuel cocksucking is insane

There's a reason Chita was never the solo star of a major Broadway Musical, unlike Angelam Ethel, Mary, Gwen, etc. She was always paired with a co-star.

Angela ^

Chita Rivera is magical. When she dances.

[quote]There's a reason Chita was never the solo star of a major Broadway Musical

I guess you missed “Kiss of the Spider Woman”.

Or "The Visit"

Myrna Loy never carried a film by herself and yet she was one of MGM's biggest and most beloved stars.

SATC is taping now. They'll be done by the end of the year.

R328, Isn't It Kinda Fun = Grease in one song.

[quote]Isn't It Kinda Fun = Grease in one song.

With the addition of a creepy pedo element.

Chita has always been one of the best of the triple threats. Of course, she's a brilliant dancer and that's her greatest strength, but she had a killer belt and was capable of being very funny and charismatic as an actor. It's just a shame the camera really does seem to hate her. She's looked 58 since she was 25, but on the plus side, it's made her seem like she hasn't aged more than 20 years since 1965.

I think "The Munsters" was the first tv show where the lead couple shard a double bed. Way to go, Herman and Lily!

-- DL fave Yvonne DeCarlo (who had double entendre-filled "Can That Boy Foxtrot" replaced with the even better "I'm Still Here" in FOLLIES).

Well, R374 every report I’ve read was that it was Sondheim’s decision, not Yvonne’s. She was too busy chasing Ted Chapin and forgetting lyrics.

Chita shared SPIDER WOMAN with two men as the leads; she made guest appearances.

R375 You're right -- I meant Yvonne "received" the song switch; Sondheim and others on the creative team made the decision.

In the handcuff episode, Lucy and Ricky's beds were pushed together.

^ Pushed together, but with one headboard.

Lucy and Desi's twin beds with a shared headboard appeared more than once. It seemed to be their way of getting around the prohibition against even married couples sharing a bed.

[quote] SATC is taping now. They'll be done by the end of the year.

It’s not taping, it’s filming, and it’ll be done a lot sooner than that. SJP moves immediately into Hocus Pocus, which has to be completed before she moves on to Plaza Suite.

[quote]SATC is taping now

[quote]It’s not taping, it’s filming

Don't be pedantic. They aren't using film, either. You knew what r370 meant.

[quote] Rita Moreno is a real phony. Not a phony phony.

And she outed herself as just another cracker.

You bitches are all wrong! Mary Kay and Johnny Stearns were the first couple to share a bed on TV in their late '40s sitcom MARY KAY AND JOHNNY. When real-life Mary Kay became pregnant, it also became the first series to show a pregnancy.

Rita didn't realize you must toe the line with groupthink.

And of course, they used it to promote the heterosexual agenda. I hate the media industrial complex and everything about it.

The early days of television (c. late '40s) were like the early days of talkies (aka Pre-Code 1929-1934) in that there wasn't much censorship yet. Once TV really took off in the '50s, then came a lot of restrictions.

Now, we need a new kind of restrictions. Ones that restrict the ability of the oppressor classes to harm us.

The movie of Plaza Suite is terrible. I don't think there's one funny line or situation in it. And I like BITP and Odd Couple. Is the play genuinely funny or even moving?

It was the gimmick of having the same couple play in all 3 acts, r389. I imagine it worked very well in Maureen's and George C.'s hands.

When a show has 3 acts, does that mean there are two intermissions?

Sometimes. Sometimes there is just one intermission and a few minute break with the curtain down as they change the scenery.

The last act of "Plaza Suite" with the bride locked in the bathroom, is very funny. The other two aren't.

Maybe in the play but it the movie I found it much too frantic and overplayed. But to be honest it's been so long since I've seen it. I started watching the movie again on some channel but I had to turn it off. If I get the chance I'll have to see that part again.

[quote]Chita shared SPIDER WOMAN with two men as the leads; she made guest appearances.

The show was built around Chita and her strengths. In both the book and the movie, the Spider Woman doesn't play as significant a role. The two men are like Herbie and Louise in Gypsy: necessary to the story, but the last song and the last bow goes to the star. And that was Chita.

We had great seats for SPIDER WOMAN, but when Chita came out, I said to my friend, "we're too close!" She was scary looking.

Inside Broadway’s biggest disaster: "Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark" turns 10:

Oh Good, ANOTHER story about how Crazy and Bad Spiderman was....We sure need that. So valuable. So insightful. Let's replay it all again. It's a story that's never really been told.

[quote]The last act of "Plaza Suite" with the bride locked in the bathroom, is very funny. The other two aren't.

I just watched the movie for the first time, and I thought that was the worst of the three segements. A "comedy" about a young woman who's so terrified of getting married that she locks herself in a hotel bathroom on the morning of the ceremony, thereby keeping the groom and his parents and all the guests waiting downstairs, having no idea what's happening, while her parents cajole and threaten to get her out of bathroom? Sounds more like a serious drama to me. And the resolution of the situation is incredibly lame.

P.S. The other two segments are only slightly less stupid and very slightly funnier, though the second one is buoyed by the performance of Barbara Harris.

[quote]Inside Broadway’s biggest disaster: "Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark" turns 10:

Or as we affectionally called it: "Spider-Man: TURN ON THE LIGHTS!!!!!"

Was Chita a producer on Spiderman, otherwise I’m loosing the connection?

R399 It's not told from the bride's point of view. In fact, she only speaks one line. I directed a production of the show. It's farce, not a documentary! Get a sense of humor.

r373 and a face made for radio.

The Sanderson Sisters

[quote]and a face made for radio.

Yeah, and I had to rape her in "The Rink"

Chita looks pretty good now that she's closing in on 90.

I bet you're a regular Mary Ann Mobley, r403.

Who?

[quote]It's not told from the bride's point of view. In fact, she only speaks one line. I directed a production of the show. It's farce, not a documentary! Get a sense of humor.

My sense of humor is very healthy, bitch, and I don't think there's anything REMOTELY funny about a bride so terrified of getting married that she locks herself in a bathroom on the morning of the wedding and won't come out. I know the play is not "told from her point of view," but does that mean we're not supposed to think about what's going through her head, or through the head of her fiance waiting downstairs with dozens of guests, none of them having any idea what's going on? Or, for that matter, are we not supposed to think about what this really means for her parents, and instead we're just supposed to laugh uproariously at a bunch of third-drawer Neil Simon one-liners?

I assume you find zero humor in Not Getting Married Today, r409.

Can they please stop trying to make Toderick Hall happen, he’s been given as many chances as Armie Hammer.

R409 Then don't go see it.

The play doesn't show the bride until she comes out. It's all from the viewpoint of the parents. Sorry you were stood up at your wedding.

My aunt who is now in her 90s and used to go to shows all the time was already dismayed when she saw Gwen and Chita in Chicago. She had seen them at their most dazzling when they were in their 20s(she told me she saw Desi at the Roxy before there was even I Love Lucy) so seeing two middle aged women singing and dancing wearing not a whole lot was to her not an edifying sight. Sometimes even old people want to see young people.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1972, "Oh! Calcutta!" opened at the Eden Theatre.

Spiderwoman was a load of crap.

I saw it in London (starring Bebe Neuwirth, who was great) with friends and we laughed about for weeks.

Shit shit shit

producers have turned that book into every possible entertainment— movie, musical, play, opera.

Stop it already!!!

You mean your aunt didn't enjoy this?

Both my aunt and my mother saw her in Can Can and when they told me about it their eyes glowed at the memory.

Good lord. No wonder Fosse stuck his dick in every hole on Broadway.

That awful costume on Verdon in R417 never made it to opening night. The old women undoubtedly never saw it.

[quote]Chita looks pretty good now that she's closing in on 90.

And Rita will be 90 in December.

Well, one can't expect her to still look like this in 1975, r418.

Or this, r422.

Remember, today's Broadway Bares dancer is tomorrow's Gwen Verdon playing the sax.

CAN-CAN 1953

Gwen Can-Can 1971

The Plaza Suite to watch is the HBO one with Jerry Orbach and Lee Grant, and Nichols' original staging reproduced by Harvey Medlinsky, who had been married to Christina Crawford. Shot in front of a live audience and well-acted, with all the stage business intact.

The Carol Burnett one is OK. The film is the weakest of the three versions, a real missed opportunity given how well the films of Barefoot and Odd Couple did, and the California Suite film later on.

Plaza Suite was nominated for Best Play and ran over 2 1/2 years, one of Simon's longest runs, longer than Odd Couple. Of his plays, only Barefoot and Brighton Beach Memoirs ran longer, and his musical Promises, Promises.

[quote]I assume you find zero humor in Not Getting Married Today, [R409].

Not comparable to PLAZA SUITE. Amy's nervousness is written as very funny in that brilliant comic song. I don't think the audience is supposed to believe she REALLY doesn't want to get married, she's just expressing her nervousness. It isn't until near the end of the scene that follows the song when it becomes clear to the audience, and to Amy's fiancee, that she really is famous, and at that point the scene becomes very sad and dramatic.

You're really over-thinking Mimsey, r428...

Amy in "Company" is famous? Beth Howland became famous for Vera on "Alice" for dropping straws (or was it spaghetti)?

R430, sorry, I meant to type "that she really is so nervous that she calls off the wedding." Don't know where the hell "famous" came from.

Watching Nathan Lane on Colbert's show tonight. Is he high? My God, he's been talking a blue streak since he stepped out on stage. Stephen's barely gotten a word in edgewise.

r409 You’re theatrically illiterate.

[quote] A "comedy" about a young woman who's so terrified of getting married that she locks herself in a hotel bathroom on the morning of the ceremony, thereby keeping the groom and his parents and all the guests waiting downstairs, having no idea what's happening, while her parents cajole and threaten to get her out of bathroom? Sounds more like a serious drama to me.

r399/r409, you're scaring me about the state of our culture. Truly, [bold]nothing[/bold] is allowed to be funny now,. Our ability as a people to find the humor in our own foibles and fears and how they impact our loved ones is one of the things that makes us human, Yes, it's exaggerated. But the parents are scared too (if it's well played), and—as in all farce—the stakes are genuinely high for everyone. We laugh because we empathize.

A dim-witted amateur actor whose head has transformed into the head of a donkey! A theater company whose players don't get along and who are putting on a bad play so ineptly that the actors actually get injured! A grown man so emotionally crushed by his divorce that he moves in with an old friend with whom he can't happily co-habitate. The nephew of a mad scientist brings a giant with a defective brain to life, and it terrorizes an entire community!! It sounds like [italic]everything[/italic] sounds like a drama to you, so I think I agree with r402.

[quote]A "comedy" about a young woman who's so terrified of getting married that she locks herself in a hotel bathroom on the morning of the ceremony, thereby keeping the groom and his parents and all the guests waiting downstairs

Will NO ONE think of the melting ice sculpture?

"A "comedy" about a young woman who's so terrified of getting married that she locks herself in a hotel bathroom on the morning of the ceremony, thereby keeping the groom and his parents and all the guests waiting downstairs"

Hmmm, that's familiar.

So R434 thinks Frankenstein is a comedy?

Gwen Verdon was born in 1925. CHICAGO opened in 1975. She was only 50 when she did the show. A very athletic and fit 50, to boot. NOT an old lady by any means.

Some gays are turned off by a woman's fit body whether she's 20 or 50.

R437 Add “Young” in front and I think you’ll get his drift.

R434, I see your point and I agree with you for the most part. In fact, I'm usually very vocal about regretting that so much humor in old plays, movies, etc. is now excoriated because it's not "woke" and, for one reason or another, is considered politically incorrect by modern standards. But in the specific case of the last segment of PLAZA SUITE, I have never found that situation funny, no matter how good the acting or directing. I remember feeling that way when I first saw a community theater production of the show 40 years ago, and I had the same reaction when I recently watched the movie for the first time.

[quote]Gwen Verdon was born in 1925. CHICAGO opened in 1975.

Some people feel she fibbed about her age her whole life. Whether or not that's true, although (as you noted) her body held up really well at least into her 50s, there sure was a lot of deterioration in her face and, of course, her voice. Maybe it was mostly due to heavy smoking? (I don't know if she was also a heavy drinker.) You have to admit that she sounds like an old lady on the CHICAGO cast album, even if her body was still in great shape.

"I have never found that situation funny, no matter how good the acting or directing. I remember feeling that way when I first saw a community theater production of the show 40 years ago, and I had the same reaction when I recently watched the movie for the first time."

*

You're entitled to your opinion, r441, but you're obviously in the minority.

[quote]You have to admit that she sounds like an old lady on the CHICAGO cast album....

Possibly, yes. She also sounds just like Ann Reinking who replaced her. Vocally, there wasn't a nickel's worth of difference between them. I saw them both in the original production. Except for the blonde wig on Reinking, a person in the back of the 46th Street Theater might have had a difficult time telling you which one of the two of them he was seeing.

I guess there was yet another Sunset Blvd concert this time with Mazz Murray and Ramin Noodle.

[quote]You're entitled to your opinion, [R441], but you're obviously in the minority.

You may be right, but I'm not so sure. When and if the Parker/Broderick PLAZA SUITE opens on Broadway, we'll see how critics and audiences react to the play itself.

Harvey Fierstein did a very good thing.

I wish more people on the show biz food chain put their money where their mouths are re: arts education.

I'm not talking about the play itself, r445, I'm talking about the plot device (Mimsey) in the third act. You have a problem with the situation itself, most people didn't/don't.

Wondering if in this age of wokeness certain plays and musicals will no longer be revived because of fear of backlash.

One word, r448...pendulum

R448, yes, but that has been going on for years.

There are plays that are hard to revive because of changing mores. In the 19th century you could not do Restoration comedy. During the Restoration, you could not produce Shakespeare as written.

Today Mame, Fiorello, Promises Promises, How to Succeed in Business, The Fantasticks, and many others are rarely produced in their original form--or just not produced.

Don't think we'll be seeing Carousel or Show Boat soon.

They'll have to rip FOLLIES out of our cold, dead, Lee Press-on bedecked hands.

Show Boat was perhaps the first major musical to make a statement against racism.

But even it was altered right after the original production. "Niggers all work on the Mississippi" was changed to "Darkies all work" back in the 30s and later "Here we all work" and eventually "Colored folk work"

[quote]I'm not talking about the play itself, [R445], I'm talking about the plot device (Mimsey) in the third act. You have a problem with the situation itself, most people didn't/don't.

I don't know RUNAWAY BRIDE, but I would say the plot device in PLAZA SUITE is very different from what happens in IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT. Here we have 45 minutes of a young woman who has locked herself in the bathroom on the morning of her wedding, refusing to come out or even to explain to her parents (through the locked door) what the problem is. For all we know, the problem may be something very serious, but we don't find out what it is until near the end of the play, and the problem turns out to be....that she has suddenly become terrified of getting married because she fears that she and her boyfriend will eventually turn into her parents. (Oh, please!) And then, after the young woman has kept the man she loves and dozens of guests waiting downstairs with no idea of what's going on, and after she has caused great angst and embarrassment to her parents, how is the situation resolved? SPOILER AHEAD: It's resolved when the groom shows up and shouts at her through the locked door, "Cool it" -- which is enough, after all that drama, to get her to emerge and go ahead with the wedding. Some people, myself included, would say that the whole setup is ridiculous even for what's supposed to a light comedy that's not meant to be taken seriously at all.

Just my opinion, and as I said, we will see when the revival opens if others share my feelings.

Oh r454 - at this point I suspect no one wants to share anything with you.

Francesca Zambello's SHOW BOAT is ready to roll. She assembled every note written for the black characters and chorus, except for the Dahomey village scene, and poured them all into her production of SHOW BOAT.

There was enough written by Kern and Hammerstein to assemble a basically white SHOW BOAT, or a basically black SHOW BOAT. Zambello went with the black version. And it's pretty good.

Like I said above, r455, you're over-thinking Mimsey. She's a plot device. It doesn't matter *why* she's locked in the bathroom. If it did, you'd get that info at the top of the act. The "Will or won't the bride make it to the alter?" plot line is/has been done ad nauseam on sitcoms. Simon's plays are of a different age. The success of Plaza Suite rides on Broderick and Parker's skill at making it work in 2011, not on whether the audience knows (or doesn't know) why Mimsey is in the bathroom in the third act.

So Harvey wants a bunch of librarians to run a theater lab? Why didn't he give the money to a theatre, a place that actually knows how to create theatre? WTF...Talk about flushing money down the drain....

I'm sorry to continue the Plaza Suite debate (after all, it's [italic]Plaza Suite[/italic], for god's sake), but the tragic "situation" you site is merely a set-up for a pretty hilarious and thorough character-study of the parents and their marriage. They go through nearly every stage of a relationship.

"In Dahomey," though it adds nothing to the plot, is a pretty sly piece of writing for 1927. It's probably too heavy-handed now and the show is long enough as it is, but it must have been something to encounter Show Boat when it first appeared. I love the story about the first night audience sitting in stunned silence at the bows, and Ziegfeld was convinced he had produced a disaster, only to be greeted with raves and lines at the box office the next day. It really is kind of a miraculous show when you consider most musicals of the 20s were nonsense (though with sensational scores).

Ann Reinking wasn't warm. She didn't twinkle. Gwen Verdon did.

When I saw CHICAGO from the 8th row of the Center Orchestra, Gwen Verdon twinkled.

But from the back of the mezzanine in that big house... not so much twinkle.

But did she SPARKLE?

[quote]So Harvey wants a bunch of librarians to run a theater lab? Why didn't he give the money to a theatre, a place that actually knows how to create theatre? WTF...Talk about flushing money down the drain....

My understanding from reading the article is that he donated a conference room. I believe the library was already in the process of creating the content. I do agree that the NYPL is not the ideal vehicle for a theater lab. They are the historians and collectors of information, not practitioners.

So apparently The New York Times has made it their mission to sell tickets to the ITH movie. ANOTHER article today....Jimmy Smits. Can't wait till they get to the "Conversations with the best boy of ITH" article...

R455, it's fine that you disagree with me, but I'm surprised that my expressing my opinion about PLAZA SUITE upsets you SO VERY MUCH.

R457, I guess what bothers me most about that third segment of PLAZA SUITE is that we eventually find out that whatever was bothering the bride was insignificant enough that it could be cured simply by her fiancee telling her to "cool it" -- and nothing more than that -- yet it was enough for her to cause great distress to her parents, the groom, and all those guests waiting for her to show up for her own wedding. In retrospect, the whole things leaves me kind of hating the bride, and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the whole playlet.

I'm sticking with my opinion, but I do appreciate and understand the arguments of those who feel otherwise, and it will be interesting to see how critics and audiences feel when and if that new production of PLAZA SUITE opens on Broadway.

I’m guessing the next thread will have MIMSEY in the title.

[quote]I'm sticking with my opinion

No! Who would have thought it?

[quote]I love the story about the first night audience sitting in stunned silence at the bows, and Ziegfeld was convinced he had produced a disaster, only to be greeted with raves and lines at the box office the next day.

I just don't buy that story. Are we supposed to believe there wasn't lots of applause during the show for all those great songs and scenes? Or are we supposed to believe there WAS lots of applause throughout the show but then, suddenly, the audience decided to sit in "stunned silence" at the very end? Sounds incredible to me -- also because the final scene of the show is not especially dark or disturbing. To me the story sounds made up, whereas reports of early audiences at WEST SIDE STORY sitting in stunned silence at the end make a lot more sense, considering how that show ends.

So, R468, are you in the habit of stating opinions her and then backing down and saying "Sorry, I was wrong!" if some people begin arguing with you? I kinda think not.

P.S. Since you and I are both posting anonymously on this board, would it still be hate speech if I call you a POS?

R467 Like the borogoves’ mimsey?

Just wait until Gypsy is canceled not just for the name, but because child abuse shouldn't be fodder for a musical comedy. How dare they!

Truly, they should just produce whatever they want and let the people who want to see it show up. The times people have ignored the bored Twitter warriors has gone ok. The world didn't explode and no one got hurt. The fact is that every show, movie, TV show, book, etc. will offend at least a few people for whatever reason. The idea of never telling that story again because of that risk is utter insanity.

ahem!

[quote] The "Will or won't the bride make it to the alter?" plot line is/has been done ad nauseam on sitcoms.

And that’s where Neil Simon‘s brother Danny ended up.

There should be a Joan Crawford GYPSY.

When I saw Show Boat, there was stunned silence when Elaine Stritch sang "Why Do I Love You?"

Sir Andrew Lloyd Drunkhead is at it again. To no one's surprise, he's backing off of his promise to open Cinderella at 100 percent capacity no matter what the government says. Of course, in his drunken narrative, he's made himself the hero, "personally bearing the losses..."

[quote]he's backing off of his promise to open Cinderella at 100 percent capacity

Liz called him up and said, "Lords of the realm don't resist government health mandates."

[quote]Truly, they should just produce whatever they want and let the people who want to see it show up. The times people have ignored the bored Twitter warriors has gone ok. The world didn't explode and no one got hurt. The fact is that every show, movie, TV show, book, etc. will offend at least a few people for whatever reason. The idea of never telling that story again because of that risk is utter insanity.

Agreed, 1000 percent.

r473 But my name is MIMSY, not MIMSEY.

It's funny how one poster's opinion sends some of you into a tailspin.

Mimsey comes out of that bathroom because, ultimately, she wants Borden's milk!

How can you find it funny, r481, when you don't know *why* it sends them into a tailspin, r481?

Release, Mimsey! Equal time for Mimsey! More lines for Mimsey! (Oh, just unlock the door and open it, dear).

I would have been tremendous, r475!

[Quote] How can you find it funny, [R481], when you don't know *why* it sends them into a tailspin, [R481]?

At least one poster said why and generalized that one commenter as the poster child of today.

"and generalized that one commenter as the poster child of today"

What does that even mean?

R472 is right. The twitter warriors will NEVER be satisfied. Nothing will EVER be enough. Time to ignore them.

Here's the quote, r487:

[Quote] you're scaring me about the state of our culture.

Got it, r489, thanks.

The difficulty of Plaza Suite is that no newly married couples can afford to stay there or want to. It doesn't have the intrigue it did back when Neil Simon wrote the play.

Screw Plaza Suite. Screw Grand Hotel. Bring *Weekend at the Waldorf* to Broadway!

R483: "We're all out of cornflakes. F.U."

But why are they out of cornflakes?

That picture of Gwen at R417 does her no favors. But I can attest that she was amazing when I saw her in Chicago in 1975 when I was a 20-year-old gayling. She and Chita and Jerry gave three of the best musical performances I have ever seen. I saw the original cast of Chorus Line the following night, Anthony Perkins and naked (and cute) Tom Hulce in Equus the next night, and Michael Rupert and DL fave Betty Buckley in Pippin the night after that. But the highlight of that trip was Chicago. In my opinion, Gwen was the best Roxie ever. Chita said something similar when the movie came out.

R360 and R370, the SATC TV reboot shoots from early July to mid October and SJP will shoot Hocus Pocus 2 from late October to early December. Plaza Suite begins rehearsals in early January. Don’t ask me how I know this.

[quote]Don't think we'll be seeing Carousel or Show Boat soon.

Agree with the poster above. Show Boat doesn't have a racist bone in its body. I guess Hammerstein's "black" dialect ("dere's an ol' man called de' Mississippi...") won't fly with the woke crowd, so that could be replaced with proper English.

As for Carousel, it's one of Broadway's most glorious scores. Just cut the damn lines where Julie condones spousal abuse. In his book that came out a few years ago, Nicolas Hytner wrote that he wishes he had cut those lines.

And I’ll echo a later poster responding to R360-“taping” is just as ignorant a term as “casted” and “casting agent.” The SATC reboot is actually being shot digitally so maybe “filmed” isn’t even technically the correct answer. Succession is the only TV series shooting on film.

[quote]Succession is the only TV series shooting on film.

How come?

Kyle Dean Massey won't be returning to Company because of the kid he and Taylor are buyi...having. This hardly seems a shock given that Company 'verbal history' piece where he basically presented Company as a little distraction to him and how glad he was to be out of New York, etc.

A bit more of RAGS

[quote] I just don't buy that story. Are we supposed to believe there wasn't lots of applause during the show for all those great songs and scenes? Or are we supposed to believe there WAS lots of applause throughout the show but then, suddenly, the audience decided to sit in "stunned silence" at the very end? Sounds incredible to me -- also because the final scene of the show is not especially dark or disturbing. To me the story sounds made up, whereas reports of early audiences at WEST SIDE STORY sitting in stunned silence at the end make a lot more sense, considering how that show ends.

The story comes from Ziegfeld's secretary, who says she sat on the stairs with Ziegfeld through the opening. She says "The first night was a disaster for us. I mean we thought it was because nobody applauded. It was quiet... When we were out on the road, it wasn't like that. People seemed to like it very much. It was a hit. But in New York, it was unbelievable. ... I think New Yorkers were so much more sophisticated than out-of-towners and to them, this was a shock. An absolute shock to see a thing like this as a musical done by Florence Ziegfeld." She's asked if there was any laughter during the comedy scenes. "Very very little." Did they applaud after "Ol' Man River"? "Nothing! Absolutely nothing!" She's asked if she really means no applause. "At the end of each act, a little light applause. But nothing like we were used to."

And yet a bit more of "Rags":

R502 What does she know? She called him 'Florence.'

Might have been my auto-correct or typo. I transcribed it from the booklet in the EMI/McGlinn cast recording.

Kyle had the least desirable role in Company do it’s not loss to him or the show.

Speaking of Rags and Show Boat...

R502, thanks, but even if that description of the audience reaction is accurate -- and it sounds like a huge exaggeration to me -- then that would indicate that the audience sat in silence at the final curtain not because they were "stunned" by the power of the show, but because they hated it. And if that's the case, what would account for the lines at the box office the next morning? Just the reviews?

My guess as to what happened that night was that lots of songs and scenes in the show, such as "Make Believe," "Can't Help Lovin' That Man," "Life Upon the Wicked Stage," "Why Do I Love You," "You are Love," "Bill," Captain Andy's antics, etc. -- pleased the audience and received due applause, while other songs and sections shocked and/or disturbed them, at least to a certain extent. For that reason, and also because the final scene is so downbeat, I can easily believe that the applause at the final curtain was tepid. But that's not the same as saying that the audience sat there in stunned silence.

shows will have to be cut so that they are unrecognizable in order to satisfy the SJW crowd. Just say," Fuck you, we're doing it." Many more people, who really love theater, will support that decision. Oh, the liberal press will crucify the producers and run countless opinion columns attacking everything and everyone associated with the show, and twitter users will get their tits squeezed , but the show's intent will be preserved and a stand will be taken.

Why r508, your vivid recreations of opening night sound as if you were there!

Was the last scene of Show Boat downbeat, though? I thought it was Magnolia and Gaylord reuniting and her saying something like “Look, Gay. There’s Kim.”

The new SJW version will have her say," There's Kim; she's gay." Or, more probably," There's Kim; she's non-binary."

Thanks for that SHOWBOAT recording clip. So entertaining and moving. And there in the middle that talented, miserable, tragic John McGlinn. Knew him at school and seeing him interviewed gave me chills. And not good ones. But I'm grateful for this recording.

All this seriousness! SARAVA!

Fuck off, Sarava! *And* the bitch you rode into town on.

So "You Do You" was created by the creators of SARAVA!

R513 what was wrong with John McGlinn?

[quote]also because the final scene is so downbeat

You have absolutely no idea at all what you are talking about. The final scene of the original Showboat couldn't possibly be more happy and upbest. Lovers reunited after decades apart.

^ upbeat

[quote][R513] what was wrong with John McGlinn?

Nathan Lane Syndrome on steroids.

Yes, r507, thank you so much for the recording clip of SHOW BOAT. Teresa Stratas, what a magnificent voice! I'm crying as I type this.....that number has the same theatrical power as Put on Your Sunday Clothes.

So sad about John McGlinn. I treasure all of his recordings of classic and lesser known musicals, he was simply the best.

The very best but so self destructive. A tragedy.

John McGlinn was a big booster of that bitch Kim Criswell.

Aghhhhh! You said her name...

Is that who Sondheim had blackballed after she said something snarky about one of his lyrics?

[quote] Is that who Sondheim had blackballed after she said something snarky about one of his lyrics?

Or maybe the fact that she's a raging cunt in general kept her from getting work.

R525, that was a rumor that went around but r526 nailed it.

Haney & Gennaro

R518, the ending is bittersweet at best. The lovers are reunited but with their difficult history it is a happy ending but a tempered one.

I read once the same story about My Fair Lady when it opened in NY. But you never know how true these stories are. When the show opened in NY It did not get the overwhelming ovation from the audience that it got in New Haven. And supposedly Moss Hart went around saying, 'It's a New Haven hit! I knew it, it's just a New Haven hit!'

I never knew there was a thing called 'a New Haven hit.' Where a show is a hit out of town but in NY suddenly it's not such a hit anymore.

[quote]R467 Like the borogoves’ mimsey?

Or like '60s schlock movie actress Mimsy Farmer?

In all this discussion of Plaza Suite, I've realized something: Mimsy is a really unfortunate name for a child. No wonder she wants to inflict pain on her parents.

It's like who names their kid Whoopi?

r531 see r473

You do not name your child Whoopi. You name her Karen and she chooses the name Whoopi as an adult.

Beats Shipoopi, r533.

Patti is getting a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Wonder who's paying for it. Ryan Murphy?

Revolution Rent begins with giving an actress rum to get though a show.

I guess at least there is no room to go downhill from there.

I was wrong.

Bad reality TV acting with the director and his family.

[quote]You do not name your child Whoopi. You name her Karen and she chooses the name Whoopi as an adult.

Actually, in Miss Goldberg's case, her parents named her CARYN, but "Karen" is certainly not a good choice these days either.

[quote]what was wrong with John McGlinn?

He was related to that cunt Posey McGlinn.

I wonder where it will be, r537.

I worked at Tower uptown when McGlinn used to patronize it. He was very heavy. Then one day he comes in looking good and trim. He had lost a lot of weight. I wonder if he had done it too quickly.

R530 I've heard an equivalent phrase: "It's a workshop hit!", meaning that when the property was done as a workshop, the response was very positive, but when moved to Broadway, it just fizzles.

Years ago, I worked on a now infamous production called A BROADWAY MUSICAL. It was loosely based on the life of Norman Kean, a white producer who made a career of producing black shows. During the workshop at the Riverside Church in upper Manhattan, one number stopped the show. It was called "Yenta Power", and it was delivered with exquisite aplomb by veteran actress Anne Francine. The gist of the song was that a failing musical could be saved with the power of the matinee ladies clubs (mostly jewish) who used to purchase huge blocks of tickets to Broadway shows. I loved the number, but it was Francine's delivery that sold it. And those uptown audiences (mostly black) seem to love it too.

When the show moved to Broadway (with lots of changes in the cast, the production team, and in the story line) everyone assumed that Francine's Yenta Power would be the same phenomenon it was uptown. On opening night (which was also the closing night) Yenta Power got a lackluster, tepid response, bordering on offended from the mostly white audience. It was downhill from there. Now the show was terrible, but that number was still funny...

imho

We've got less than 50 posts to go and we've finished this thread in less than a week. Not bad, considering we didn't waste a lot of space arguing about racism.

Billy Boy/R544, could you say the same about shows that have buzz when playing limited runs off Broadway and die almost immediately after transferring?

Anne Francine's Moon...

R510, I said I was guessing what happened at the first performance of SHOW BOAT, not reporting it. You bitch.

[quote]Was the last scene of Show Boat downbeat, though? I thought it was Magnolia and Gaylord reuniting and her saying something like “Look, Gay. There’s Kim.”

That's not how the original version of the show ended. SHOW BOAT has been revised countless times since the first production.

[R518], the ending is bittersweet at best. The lovers are reunited but with their difficult history it is a happy ending but a tempered one.

Thank you. R518 is clearly the person here who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, so he projected that onto me. Nasty piece of work.

[quote]I read once the same story about My Fair Lady when it opened in NY. But you never know how true these stories are. When the show opened in NY It did not get the overwhelming ovation from the audience that it got in New Haven. And supposedly Moss Hart went around saying, 'It's a New Haven hit! I knew it, it's just a New Haven hit!'

Actually, the story is that the first half of the first act of the opening night performance of MY FAIR LADY in New York did not go over very well, for some reason, which caused Moss Hart (or whomever) to make that remark. But then "The Rain in Spain" brought the house down, and the show was clearly a hit from that point onward.

Thank you for clarifying that. So Hart was already panicking halfway through the first act. But it was in New Haven as well where The Rain in Spain brought the house down and they didn't know what hit them. That seems to be Andrews' most vivid memory of that very first performance. I guess NY was in a more subdued show me attitude until that point and it frightened him.

So I saw In The Heights tonight. Why the complaints about lack of Afro-Latino representation? The second billed player Corey Hawkins was obviously of African descent and the depiction of the community was of people from all over the Caribbean and Latin countries and of all shades and body types. I get that people want to jump on Lin-Manuel for his success but he didn't deserve that pig pile.

You can't be as woke as all the Twitter people want you to be. It's a losing proposition. They'll end up devouring each other.

McGlinn wasn’t much of a conductor, although he was a good musical archivist.

He was also mentally ill. He died in his apartment in squalor, having alienated so many former friends and allies. Truly sad. Although it must be said that even when he was compos mentis he was obnoxious.

Compos obnoxious

McGlinn’s entire unreleased recording of Victor Herbert’s Babes in Toyland can be found on YouTube. Perhaps the testy Datalounger who attended the opening night of Show Boat can tell us how accurate the Babes in Toyland recording is.

I assume it was all the hype coming out of New Haven that made the NY opening night audience dubious. It still happens today with out of town tryouts from San Diego and Chicago.

I wonder why it took so long for Broadway to establish longer preview periods instead of just the one or two there customarily were in the 1940s and 50s. Dide those previews generally offer much cheaper tickets?

[quote]McGlinn’s entire unreleased recording of Victor Herbert’s Babes in Toyland can be found on YouTube. Perhaps the testy Datalounger who attended the opening night of Show Boat can tell us how accurate the Babes in Toyland recording is.

Perhaps you can go fuck yourself. For the last time, I was only speculating on what may have happened at the opening night of SHOW BOAT. I find it very hard to believe that songs like "Make Believe," "You are Love," and Helen Morgan singing "Can't Help Lovin' That Man" and "Bill" did not receive lots of applause from the audience.

Did you applaud r557?

[quote] No surprise that the same idiot made both of the above comments. [quote] I devoutly wish that you and all other brainwashed troublemakers would shut the fuck up. [quote] Oh, and has anyone told you you're a shit-stirring moron? [quote] You bitch. [quote] Perhaps you can go fuck yourself. We're getting along so nicely.

^ well that didn't work out so well ^

Each quote needs to be on its own line r559. Which means, either at the beginning of a post or after pressing enter twice.

[quote] No surprise that the same idiot made both of the above comments.

[quote] I devoutly wish that you and all other brainwashed troublemakers would shut the fuck up.

[quote] Oh, and has anyone told you you're a shit-stirring moron?

[quote] You bitch. [quote] Perhaps you can go fuck yourself.

We're getting along so nicely.

Sorry, R562, but in my opinion, troublemakers who irrationally stir shit deserve to be called out in the most explicit terms. And so do those who make nasty, bitchy responses to someone SPECULATING on what MAY have happened on a show that opened in 1927.

'For the last time, I was only speculating on what may have happened at the opening night of SHOW BOAT. I find it very hard to believe that songs like "Make Believe," "You are Love," and Helen Morgan singing "Can't Help Lovin' That Man" and "Bill" did not receive lots of applause from the audience.'

Ziegfeld's secretary was there you weren't. Maybe it didn't seem to be as enthusiastic as they had heard before but this was the night that mattered. It worried Florenz especially as he had poured in so much money and he was very concerned because of the subject matter.

[quote]And so do those who make nasty, bitchy responses to someone SPECULATING on what MAY have happened on a show that opened in 1927.

AND so does someone SPECULATING on what MAY have happened on a show that opened in 1927.

Who was this story of Show Boat's cold reception told to?

If it was in a private letter that was one thing. If it was to a biographer or someone from the press it is another.

I've often heard that first nighters often react more mildly than might be expected, given that the audience is made up of critics, fat cats, socialites, but none of the fanatics who will follow. Besides, they may be hearing the songs for the first time, and their ears were unaccustomed to the melodies and lyrics. I was at the opening of Sweeney Todd, and the reception did not tear the roof of the Uris.

That being said, who cares? Showboat and Sweeney are both masterpieces, despite what happened at their openings.

We're going to need another new thread so soon? Bickering over how awful the title is yet again? The possibility of another duplicate thread?

Lighten up. It's Saturday morning. Time for...

[quote] Who was this story of Show Boat's cold reception told to? If it was in a private letter that was one thing. If it was to a biographer or someone from the press it is another.

It was told to Miles Kreuger, who wrote the 1977 book, Show Boat: The Story of a Classic American Musical. The interview with Ziegfeld's secretary, "Goldie" Stanton Clough, was in 1988 in Los Angeles and the transcript of their Q&A is in the liner notes for the McGlinn recording. She is very detailed in her responses, so I find her account quite persuasive.

However, R570, the distance in time and that she is speaking for public consumption makes her story less credible.

I remember a tepid response at the first preview of [italic]The Black Crook[/italic], but then opening night the crowd went wild.

Julia at 18:10...

[quote]AND so does someone SPECULATING on what MAY have happened on a show that opened in 1927.

Right, as if you never speculate about anything. And anyway, what's wrong with speculation if it's labeled as such?

To clarify one more time and put an end to this: I find it completely credible that the applause at the end of the first performance of SHOW BOAT was tepid, for the reasons I and others have noted above. I was merely stating that I find it hard to believe that lots of individual numbers in the show didn't get strong applause, and also I was objecting to someone's original description here that the audience sat in "stunned silence" at the end of the performance because they were so taken aback by the show's serious examination of racial injustice. As it turns out, that's not even an accurate description of what Ziegfeld's secretary told Miles Kreuger. So, R565, I'm sorry if all of that upsets you for some reason, but I'm going to stand by what I've posed here.

[quote]Why the complaints about lack of Afro-Latino representation? The second billed player Corey Hawkins was obviously of African descent

Because Corey Hawkins' character, Benny, is not Afro-LATINO R550. He's straight up African-American. In fact, in the stage musical, Nina's father (Jimmy Smits in the movie) doesn't approve of Benny dating his daughter and does not intend to leave him the taxi business specifically because he is not Latino.

[quote] To clarify one more time and put an end to this:

Oh r574 it's tacky when someone says something with a preface that effectively says "I insist on having the last word.."

Christ, we are some argumentative bitches.

Does Flo Ziegfeld's secretary deserve a thread of her own?

As long as the guy who is obsessed with her goes there, I'm in.

[quote]Does Flo Ziegfeld's secretary deserve a thread of her own?

If she gets one, so do I!

Fuck Flo Ziegfeld!!!

[Quote] To me the story sounds made up, whereas reports of early audiences at WEST SIDE STORY sitting in stunned silence at the end make a lot more sense, considering how that show ends.

I saw the revival before the most current one. It’s then that I understood why West Side Story didn’t become a classic until the movie. The stage version is sort of meh

[quote]I saw the revival before the most current one. It’s then that I understood why West Side Story didn’t become a classic until the movie. The stage version is sort of meh

I'm sorry and surprised you haven't considered that, perhaps, your negative reaction was not based on the script and score of the stage version but, rather, the fact that it was horribly misdirected by its author, Arthur Laurents. That loathsome individual used to have talent as a writer (though he lost it decades ago) but never displayed ANY talent as a director. In it own special ways, I would say that production you saw was almost as severely misguided as the Ivo van Hove monstrosity, which I'm happy to hear is probably not going to reopen post-pandemic.

R583, I guess WSS isn’t a fool-proof musical

The original production of La Cage was superb. I was surprised that Laurents directed it years after his writing talent had run out.

Sorry, but I thought the original La Cage was badly directed. I thought the direction of the two revivals were actually a lot better.

What was the drawing power of the original La Cage prior to the Tony wins? It's name? Rave reviews? Gene Barry?

His direction of the dinner party scene with the fiancee’s parents was jaw droppingly awful.

we are desperate

The worst of it was the scene where they sing THE BEST OF TIMES IS NOW. It was set up so badly that it was laughable. It was a hundred times better in the revival. Laurents was a horrible director.

Theoni went over budget, but hey...

If only Franklin and Lavin had been cast as "Kate & Allie".

"Just when you think there's no one around who's caring/ Along comes a friend who offers a hand unsparing/And slaps you hard, dammit!"

Bonnie Franklin and Linda Lavin leading a tour of Victor/Victoria, alternating the Victoria and Toddy roles ... welcome to my nightmares, folks.

That post belonged elsewhere. Dammit.

It certainly did, r594!

I think the Kate and Allie post was just fine here, considering we all hate Lavin and Franklin.

Too soon for Bajour?

Closing This

Thread

Sarava!

Ending this thread with the overture....