The Vanessa Williams Miss America scandal

She had her tongue on another lady’s snooch. It was a big deal.

Everybody was posing spread eagle in those days. Tiny Tim's wife and others.

I want to do a biopic of Vanessa but I'm afraid my fierce sexiness will make me unbelievable in the wholesome Miss America scenes.

They even involved George Burns in it.

Suzette Charles is still bitter.

Charles really did sing well. Probably the only person to sing a Streisand song better than Streisand.

It’s illegal to sell or possess it unless the photos of traci lords who was 15 at the time are removed. I think Vanessa told Howard stem later on she only had about 2 weeks left of actual Miss America duties when she resigned. She was told they would be in silhouette. Vanessas successor Suzette Charles was apparently a raging bitch and one of the Miss America officials said he would rather put up with six weeks of scandal then spend another moment with that bitch, meaning Charles. In her defense she was told that there would be all kinds of appearances but other than the first week after she took over they told her to come back two weeks before the pageant and to prepare for the telecast. She was pissed as she was opening for a lot of top notch performers in Atlantic City at the time and has to drop all of that. There were also rumors that the photos weren’t going to come out until the week Vanessa crowned her successor but someone in her camp got Guccione to push up the release date.

Also she lied on stage about her future plans, she claimed she was going to play one of bill cosbys daughters on the Cosby show (Sondra), but that part had already been cast and Sabrina le beauf had already filmed her first episodes. Cosby narrowed it down to sabrina and Whitney Houston but choose Sabrina because of her Yale school of drama education.

The pageant is almost dead and may shut down in the next few years.

The talent portion is iconic, especially the fashions. If I were on Project Runway, my final collection would be based on it- there's a white pantsuit that is completely fringed. Pam Battles wears brown sequins and satin, and bangs the hell out of the piano, while eye fucking the camera. Suzette and Vanessa are terrific.

One of the contestants actually sings Dixie.

She is the most beautiful and talented Miss America with a real career. She used that controversy to her advantage. I love her first three albums. She was gorgeous in Soul Food.

Post the fucking pictures.

4 R10:

It was a huge deal

google is your friend r10

there are many pictures from two different photo shoots. The second set are more raunchy. (the story of how she did them is so sordid. Right out of Coco in Fame.)

Getting her clit licked:

Getting rimmed:

More clit lickage:

She was Miss America, supposedly the American Ideal of Young Womanhood. It didn't do that she was seen in photos with her ugly vulva prominently displayed and another woman's face in her crotch and asshole. No, it didn't do at all.

My sister got in trouble in middle school around this time, she had to sit in front of the classroom with her back turned (I’m surprised she didn’t have to wear a dunce cap) & lost her head cheerleading spot. The teacher told the class it was just like Vanessa Williams losing her title! That’s the first thing I think of when I hear about VW.

Opening the curtains:

In S&M gear:

[quote]People who were adults at the time, what did you think of it? Should she have resigned?

Do you actually think she had a choice in the matter of whether she resigned or not?

It's not enough that pics of Vanessa are nude but the fact she is spreading her hairy pussy, getting rimmed and engaging in lesbian sex. You would just assume it was just an innocent topless photo with demure smile. Vanessa admitted to be a slutty party girl. I respect that she owns up to it.

What do you expect from her kind? They are savages, wild beast from the African jungles who have no morales or sense of respect. The colonists thought they could rehab these creatures into highly trained farm workers, domestics, and pleasure devices for white people. Just like with most white people who try to help brown people, the whites were taken advantage of

ok r21 make it should have been made to resign

Actually she could have said no she's not going and make them do the press conferences on their own saying they are firing her.

She did those pictures because apparently she was convinced they were "art" and the photographer promised to not publish them. She comes up from an uptight bourgeois family who probably were hard on her especially with the black respectability politics. So she went to college and rebelled like most sheltered religious girls do.

R25 wasn’t she roommates with Lauren Holly (at Syracuse)?

Vanessas mother was pissed that they threw her under the bus. She had done about 50% more appearances then any other miss America in history. But in the end it turns out the pageant needed her she didn’t need them. She wrote in her book that the catalyst of her wild behavior was being molested at 10 years old.

Lee meriwether was one of the few who contacted her after she resigned to offer support. Lee is the only miss America she’s friends with. When she won Maryann Mobley said something about having to go to a ghetto in Harlem because she assumed that’s where she was from. She actually grew up in the westchester surburbs.

And now she could even become first lady

[quote]ok R21 make it should have been made to resign Actually she could have said no she's not going and make them do the press conferences on their own saying they are firing her.

OP, you act as though most of America would have rallied behind her. No, most of America readily understood why she was fired.

The controversy and resignation is what made Vanessa's career. It's hard to say she would have had her long career in music, film, TV and on stage had that controversy not happened.

don't be such a contrarian r29

Vanessa is talented but even still. The Miss America fiasco is what got her foot in the door.

She was molested by a female cousin as a child (as said above.)

She said at the time she didn't really understand why she was doing what she did but with therapy she learned she was punishing herself for the attack and the whole thing had turned her sexual curiosity inside out and all messed up.

I hate that the reasoning for this has to be a result of child molestation. I mean taking nude photos and faking lesbian sex isn't the worst thing one could do and young people like to experiment with their sexuality. Vanessa wasn't doing anything that out of ordinary. It was only shocking because she was Miss America.

No r34. If you read her book and how the photo shoots came about (especially the second one) she was clearly a disturbed young woman acting out and degrading herself in ways she didn't understand.

The second shoot was basically a guy stopped her in a train station and asked her to come to his house for a photo shoot. Her boyfriend drove her to some seedy apartment. He waited outside. She went in and just did what the guy told her too and then left and never told the boyfriend what happened. She was having deep psychological struggles.

She was set to take over for twiggy in my one and only with tommy tune but was dropped after the photos came out. She said it took her 5-6 years for her career because of the scandal. Another setback for her was la Reid fucking her over and taking the song girlfriend away from her after she recorded it and gave it to pebbles who listened in on the recording session. Pebbles offered a Mercedes cash and her pussy to Reid.

Maryann Mobley was the one who sang Dixie- I couldn't remember her name earlier in this thread.

Vanessa is from Chappaqua, NY, the tiny NYC suburb in Westchester County that the Clintons live in too. She still lives there on a big estate.

She must the most successful Miss America ever.

No the scandal didn’t make her career; it nearly demolished it. She had to dig herself out from 6 ft under.

She is so extraordinarily beautiful and talented, that even that wouldn’t hold her back

Well, times have changed. Melania kept her job despite racy pics

The scandal helped her with name recognition, and in the days before the internet, the photos themselves disappeared from circulation quickly. Her first guest starring roles on TV shows were only two years after she was forced to resign, and her hit singles were only a couple of years after that, and I remember during the whole time she was making sure to carefully mention how the photos were a mistake but also she shouldn't have been ousted from her Miss America title. I can definitely see why some people would think her career was helped by the scandal.

I recall that Blacks were the first to really turn against her. They were proud of her Miss America win, but were the momentum of the backlash against her.

In fact, in planning her acting and record careers, there was a concerted effort by her agent to first win back Black fans.

Did none of them use a razor back then?

It was a huge deal and I felt terrible for her. I remember one of her comeback moments was on SNL. She wore jeans and a military jacket and sang “Save the Best for Last” and killed it. I remember that she stood stock still the entire time but I can’t find the video. Anyway, she was so elegant and defiant in that performance. That was when she came back.

I saw her in Kiss Of The Spider Woman and she was great!

it was probably the moment that the miss america pageant began to die. it was a huge deal about MISS AMERICA POSED NUDE. but vanessa increased in popularity while the pageant started to whither away.

R45, I wish she had a bigger Bway presence. Because she did so many different things —Tv, movies, bway, records—she never really established herself as a mega star in one genre.

Because unlike today, back then people had a sense of decency.

And in the next decade, she had a huge hit singing a Disney song.

When you think of people who dig themselves our of a hole, she's the role model. Not many careers would have survived the backlash she got. And add "Black" on top of it all, then "woman" and she had some serious challenges ahead of her. But she did it.

R23 should be fisted by Captain Hook and Edward Scissorhands.

Of course, there will be brain damage.

Beauty pageants are such a crock of shit, especially Miss America with its weird Queen Esther vibes of selecting the perfect virgin. Vanessa did nothing wrong and I'm delighted that she and her career thrived after that creepy incident. The pageant should have died of shame years ago.

So Suzette was Miss America for 6 weeks?

I remember they always made a big deal announcing the first runner up, saying how important it was, in case Miss America could not fulfill her duties. But they were saying that before this scandal.

Bess Myerson was the most successful Miss America ever.

Miss America was supposed to represent all that was good about American womanhood. Appearing spread eagle like a whore in some magazine didn't invoke that image.

[quote]don't be such a contrarian R29

It's called having a different opinion from yours.

"Miss America was supposed to represent all that was good about American womanhood. Appearing spread eagle like a whore in some magazine didn't invoke that image"

Oh, come now, R54. Your dick pics are as common as Coke.

R56, he was talking about your mother.

I have three of Vanessa’s CDs. Decent voice. She does sound a bit flat live, though, with a tendency to over enunciate; I’ve noticed that with her and a couple of other stage actresses when they sing live. I still adore her to pieces.

[quote] but vanessa increased in popularity while the pageant started to whither away.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

I think she needed to stick to R&B and dance-pop music. Her first two albums were fun. A perfect blend of new jack swing and soulful ballads. For some reason she wanted to focus on the ballad part and lost her fun factor.

R60, true, she had huge hits with her ballads and seems to think those were her forte

Her boyfriend at the time was CUTE. They apparently fucked like rabbits, he knocked her up and she aborted. He could have bred me anytime.

"She did those pictures because apparently she was convinced they were "art" and the photographer promised to not publish them. "

She was convinced that THOSE pictures were "art?" If so, she much have the IQ of a brick.

Laundry Day

Pleasure Principle

"My eyes are up here...."

Does it....stink?

Thanks for the Mammaries

Swamp Ass Be Gone

Remember it well. Williams winning Miss New Yor was stunning she was stunning. I watched Miss America to see how far Miss NY would go. Was sure she;d make it into top ten. In show was sure she'd get top five Miss NJ was black also Well you know how it turned out, what happened. Williams crowned. Later the photo scandal came out Oops. But look at it like this .... further auditions Williams did, she booked. What if Charles was along the way too. She didn't book much, didn't have any career like Williams. Just not as talented?

R62 Vanessa is the only one fuckable in that photo

"Isn't the world a crazy place? I had a white girl in my face."

Sorry, I couldn't find a better version.

Marsha Warfield at 1:30 conveys pretty well what the reaction to the photos was back in 1984.

Grace Jones said it best: "She posed nude. Twice. So?"

I am a prude and cannot look at most of those pictures. Save the Best for Last is a beautiful song and I have the album on cassette somewhere. R72 is pretty freaking funny. Vanessa seems to get prettier the older she gets. She's just amazingly beautiful.

As successful as Vanessa Williams was, she should've been an even bigger star. She was absolutely breathtaking beautiful in her younger days. After she did Eraser with Arnold, I'm surprised she didn't get more movie roles. The movie was a hit and even though she, admittedly, wasn't a distinctive actress at that time (she became one later with Ugly Betty), she was so beautiful in the movie she should've gotten other parts. She was funny during her brief time on Desperate Housewives also.

I cannot believe how stupid she was. She runs for Miss America knowing THOSE photos are out there? She wanted to be a famous person, a star; how could she have been so stupid as to have photos taken of her like THAT? I mean nude photos are one thing, but those photos were straight up porn: full frontal nude crotch on display, cunnilingus, rimming. Did she think "oh well, they're x-rated photos but nobody will ever seen them but me and the photographer." God, what an idiot she must have been, or maybe still is.

I was a kid when these photos came out, but I had NO idea they were so explicit!

No wonder it was such a big deal.

Absolutely love love love this song from [italic]Eraser[/italic]

What a surprise that she was forced to resign as Miss America after appearing in photos that made her look like a prostitution whore.

She was 18 or 19 when she posed for the photos and didn’t think the photos would be public. Stupid yes, but Christ r77 quit trying to burn her at the stake.

She never had any desire to be miss America. She was asked several times to compete in the local Miss Syracuse pageant but turned them down. Then a show she was supposed to do for equity points got canceled and she agreed to do it. She didn’t expect to win Miss America and thought Miss New Jersey would win because she was the hometown girl. Her mother said some of the parents got pissy with them when they told them this was only third pageant she had ever done. A lot of these girls had been doing them since they were in diapers.

It’s 2021, post internet and social media and people still are naive to think that nude photos they took won’t get out or won’t be shared. Plenty of porn performers believe that no one will find out that they did porn and that their real name won’t get out. A congresswoman resigned just a few years ago because of nude photos.

The photos weren't simple topless photos. She was getting on with another girl and getting her pussy and ass eaten out. It's understandable why it was controversial especially back then. If she was white it would have been controversial too. I actually think Vanessa was forgiven in the black community faster because she got her music career started off om R&B stations and appeared on Soul Train. White America didn't embrace her until later..

Eh the pageant begged her for years to come back after she resigned, even having a CEO show up at one of her Atlantic City shows to ask her to come back. She actually remained close to her traveling companions and a few of the girls she competed with that year.

She came back in 2014 because she’s friends with Sam Haskell who was the CEO of the pageant at the time. He’s a closeted old queen who is married to a former miss Mississippi and had been involved with the pageant in some way for over 40 years. He was also one of the few people who reached out to her and helped her negate her way through the scandal. Haskell was ousted a few years later when another Miss America and her boyfriend forwarded to DL fave Yashar Ali a bunch of emails where he said disparaging things about some former winners including calling some of them “former miss cunts” and when Mary Ann Mobley died he and another official joked that they wished it was kate shindle another former winner he was feuding with.

Miss Oklahoma the year Vanessa competed is an out lesbian, Miss West Virginia from her year is married to former teen heartthrob Fabian. Miss Maryland is Phil Collins longtime backup singer

When Vanessa resigned her portrait at the pageant office was replaced by a former winner who would go on to pose for playboy and admit to fucking bill clinton.

The pageant had the cheek to use "Save The Best For Last" for the evening gown competition in 1993, years before they reconciled with Vanessa.

[quote] Maryann Mobley was the one who sang Dixie

How nice of her.

She "didn't think the photos would be public? Why did she think that? And why did she take them in the first place? What the hell was she thinking, that they were "art" photos? Jesus Christ.

One of her best songs. If she kept this funky upbeat sound, she could have had a bigger music career.

Do we know the story of the woman Vanessa posed with?

Why did it take so long for the photos to come out? Wouldn’t have been more effective to take her down at the beginning of her reign instead of like two weeks before it would end?

[quote]What the hell was she thinking, that they were "art" photos? Jesus Christ.

"Art" photos? They were nudies!

Another one of her good songs.

I think the person who got a hold of the photos shopped around to adult magazines to sell them too. I think Playboy actually turned them down. Out of moral obligation (?). Penthouse ended up publishing them.

Playboy was offered the photos first, but Hugh Hefner refused to print them. Partly because Playboy doesn't print lesbian-themed content, and partly because he recognized it as a takedown effort. Penthouse had no such qualms, plus I'm sure they figured it would boost their profile, which it did. It was their best-selling issue, which is ironic since, as R7 pointed out, it's illegal to possess the issue as its centerfold was only 15 at the time.

Were all the pictures published and therefore the reason for having to resign? I don't remember the clit licking and rimming pics being published at the time.

R92, they mention this in the Bob Guccione documentary. The issue with Williams' photos was so popular they actually ran out of paper, they couldn't print any more copies.

Suzanne Charles should have had Vanessa’s career. Vanessa was a stunt queen.

Penthouse had Traci Lords as the underage centerfield in the same issue as Vanessa. But Playboy had Brooke Shields as 10 years old in one of it's issues and got away with it under the "art" excuse.

I don't believe the identity of the other woman was ever revealed. Vanessa claimed she didn't remember signing any model releases but Bob Guccione of Penthouse claimed his lawyers had the documentation. Vanessa and the other woman in the lez layout could've sued them for publishing them without the releases. Of course, the damage was already for Vanessa (for the time anyway).

They guy that took the pics did shop them to Playboy first, but Hefner turned them down saying he didn't think it was right ruining Vanessa rein, especially since she was the first black Miss America. Hefner also criticized Guccione for not holding on them until she finished her reign and the issue would've sold just as well then.

From her early music videos, I thought she was a talentless, two left-footed dancer who needed the most basic choreography, then I saw her in “Dance with Me” and realized how wrong I was. She’s a legit triple threat gorgeous goddess.

"I recall that Blacks were the first to really turn against her. They were proud of her Miss America win, but were the momentum of the backlash against her. "

Interesting, since she's said that it was Black people who stood by her.

R100

I know that person is an idiot. Vanessa is beloved in the black community and it was accepted that she made a youthful mistake and didn't deserve that humiliation. Miss America was a historically white (and racist) institution, so why would black people side with it against Vanessa, a black woman? Anyway, Vanessa made her comeback as an R&B and new jack swing singer and she was on Soul Train and BET. She was cast in black movies and TV shows. She was supported by other black people. In fact if Vanessa was a white woman, she probably wouldn't have recovered as easily.

Vanessa handled herself with grace and she not only survived but thrived.

What happened to her was bullshit and I'm glad she was able to turn it around to the most successful entertainment career any Miss America ha ever had. As said above, she was very young and sheltered when she did the photo shoots, she had been molested and had not processed that trauma, and she was practically dragged into the pageant world. She had no expectation of winning and never imagined she'd have a high enough profile where anyone would care about some silly art photos she had taken. I'm so glad she never groveled and fuck Miss America for taking 30 something years to apologize to her.

Obligatory plug for the excellent You're Wrong About episodes about Vanessa.

It all seems so quaint now.

Mary Ann Mobley was a cunt. Typical racist Southern Belle variety.

R94 the softer lesbian photos were published first. One of the reasons Vanessa readily agreed to resign is because she figured if she didn't the S&M photos would come next. Penthouse ended up publishing those as well, months after she resigned.

[quote]Her parents thought she shouldn’t resign, that she should fight. Vanessa reminded them that there was a second set of pictures the public did not yet know about. “People can forgive one mistake,” she said, “but if the other pictures come out, everyone will say, ‘This girl took us for a ride.’ It isn’t worth it.”

R105 she was from Mississippi , right? Figures.

I was about 7 or 8 when I vaguely remember all this happening, until maybe a few years ago I thought they were just some tame nude photos and never understood the big deal. Even today I think those would shake people up a bit.

But that post upthread about the future Clinton accuser (or whatever she was) made me laugh - and just shows how hypocritical the whole enterprise is.

It pissed me off because I realize the U.S. still has a strong puritanical streak to it. It's not dead yet - recall Janet Jacksons nipple slip. Now watch some European films and by golly they show it all including male full frontal nudity. I love that.

R8 R37 R85 Sorry, but a couple of corrections...

On the 1984 telecast where Vanessa won, Mobley appeared with husband/host Gary Collins but did not perform at all. Miss Texas Dana Rogers performed the Elvis Presley medley 'American Trilogy" of which "Dixie" is part.

And I focussed on that because to explain how much I love Vanessa would take far too long, and many other kind posters have expressed my thoughts already and far more eloquently.

And yes, I am a Miss America freak. Vanessa will always be my number 1.

It's hard to explain how big the Miss America Pageant was to people who weren't around back then. It's so stupid and such a relic, but back then it was a big event every year. It was broadcast on one of the Big Three networks, which at the time everybody and their mother watched. Miss America was always a big ratings-grabber. I think most people today would be surprised that the pageant event still exists.

What’s in those pics would be considered more hardcore back in the 80s. Being gay was not cool back then and being a lezzie was even more taboo. Back then big bushes were hot (as if I’d know anything about that). These were the Top Gun and Reagan years.

After Vanessa won and the pageant was winding down, Mary Ann Mobley said to Vanessa's chaperone "are you ready to go back to Harlem now?" Mary Ann assumed Vanessa was from the ghetto.

CUNT!

So she was "young" and "sheltered' and "molested" and that's why she allowed herself to be photographed in lesbian porn poses and with her vaginal lips hanging out? Bullshit! The guy who took the photos said she was no sheltered little flower; he said she liked to party and get high and fuck. My guess is that she thought a lesbian photo shoot might be "fun", a new sexual experience for her. Of course the dim bulb didn't have the sense to realize that it was entirely possible for those pictures to be made public, especially if she went into the entertainment industry and achieved some fame. And she want out for Miss America, with the existence of those photos! The girl was dumb as a tree.

They should have given Williams "Miss Congeniality"

R37 , Maryanne Mobley is Anita Bryant with a tiara .

R115 Anita Bryant is Anita Bryant with a tiara. She was also a beauty pageant winner.

Anita was Miss Oklahoma and was a runner-up at Miss America in the 1950s. Don't care enough to look up what year.

R109 is as gay as a picnic basket!

R113 is Anita Bryant.

R118 Why yes and thank you! And I even garnered a Golden Girls meme, I'm elated! Is that not high honors here on the DL?

You seem a little too invested in this r113. She worked part time for him as a photography assistant over one summer. He later did jail time and died of cancer 20 years ago. You do know that a good portion of female adult performers (most) were victims of sexual abuse, right? I’m sure you also know that abuse victims tend to act out because they don’t know how else to deal with trauma at an early age.

Anita was Mary Ann Mobley’s 2nd runner up in 1958. Miss Arkansas of that year Sally Miller also admitted to a long term friends with benefits relationship with bill clinton. Elizabeth ward the Miss America who admitted to fucking clinton said the encounter was consensual and she went public with it because Paula Jones attorneys were trying to subpoena her.

I think Suzette Charles tried to launch her entertainment career several times but she didn’t have the charisma and star power that Vanessa did. A great singer but very little presence. She was competing for Mike Tyson the same time robin givens was and still doing so even after Tyson married givens. She did do a few songs with stock Aitken and waterman but nothing ever came of it.

Yes it is R120!

Suzette Charles was a bitter bitch, but I can't blame her. Everyone, even Vanessa, expected her to win. Instead some unknown who wasn't even interested in pageantry wins AND THEN resigns in scandal. And then goes on to have the singing and acting career Suzette was supposed to have. She probably felt like Vanessa was put on Earth just to fuck with her.

Vanessa being crowned Miss America. Christ the Miss America song as she walks down the runway is horrible.

Vanessa is an incredible beauty and an exceptional woman with multiple talents. It would have taken far more than this scandal to keep her from being a star. I am blown away by her beauty afresh every time I see her.

Yeah, Vanessa is and was STUNNING, even as a child. She was like Whitney with that combination of looks and talent that made it seem like she was made in a perfect entertainer factory.

R124 at the time she won the organization was disputing with Bernie Wayne who wrote “THERE SHE IS” Miss America theme. The were allowed to use it again for a number of years but currently don’t because the Bernie Wayne estate won’t allow it to be used as of now because the organization didn’t get the licensing agreement that the estate required.

Just an astonishing beauty.

R121, you seem a little too invested in making excuses for Vanessa Williams and defending her behavior. The simple truth is that she was an idiot for doing those photos. I don't think "abuse" had anything to do with it. Judging from the way she looked in those photos she was quite enjoying herself. I think she did them just to have some fun with another woman and didn't stop to think that the photos would resurface some day. It was stupidity, not being a poor little abused girl, that drove her.

[quote]Maryanne Mobley is Anita Bryant with a tiara .

Not anymore.

There's nothing to "defend" R129. She took some harmless raunchy photos. She was publicly shamed for them by a regressive hypocritical industry. She rose above it and succeeded despite that.

In this era of celebrity sex tapes that whole controversy over Vanessa's pictures seems so old-fashioned.

She was an "idiot" because she was young, in college and out on her own for the first time. She seemed like a thrill seeker that just wasn't thinking too much about consequences. It came back to bite her when she entered Miss America and got farther than she expected in the preliminaries and won the title. She matured and regretted her decisions. But she was young and in her late teens or early 20s which isn't exactly the age of logical thinking.

R129 sounds like a hysterical frau. She posed nude dear she didn’t kill anyone. The only person she hurt was herself and she paid the price for it.

If anything, the scandal showed how silly and outdated pageants were. That being said the old ones are fun to watch for their cheesiness and there were some truly talented women who competed in them. Now they are dreadful and the girls have to give Ted talks.

"There's nothing to "defend."

You appear to be saying she took the pictures because she was molested as a child. That's your defense for her having taken them. I disagree. I think she took them because she wanted a lesbo experience and thought it would be cute to take photos of it, not comprehending that the photos would probably see the light of day sometime. She didn't do them because she was a sexual abuse victim, she did them because she was stupid.

[quote] She matured and regretted her decisions. But she was young and in her late teens or early 20s which isn't exactly the age of logical thinking.

Lots of us did crazy shit at that age because we were young and out on our own for the first time.

Except for the DL prisspots who were holed up in their hovels and watching Dallas and Dynasty.

There's nothing 'hysterical " or "frau" about stating the truth, R134. You sound like a dumb twat.

She won in the end - whether a youthful mistake or "idiot" behavior.

They were simulated sex acts R135, did you really think she was having lesbian sex? She was told they would be in silhouette and her face wouldn’t be recognizable and she fell for it. Acting out after unresolved trauma happens in a lot of forms. She didn’t even tell her mom about the abuse until she starting writing her book.

"Except for the DL prisspots who were holed up in their hovels and watching Dallas and Dynasty."

Oh, shut the fuck up, twat. Everyone does something in their youth that they regret but not a great many people let themselves do porn photo shoots, especially if they want a career in the mainstream entertainment industry.

It’s too bad your mother didn’t get the wire hanger in R137.

[quote]You appear to be saying she took the pictures because she was molested as a child.

No one said that. Your inability to understand nuance or context fits well with your Puritanical hysteria over some harmless nudie pics.

The thing about Vanessa is she didn't necessarily plan out a career in Hollywood. She was in college for musical theater and probably was aiming for Broadway. She didn't even have that much interest in beauty pageants and didn't expect to get that far in Miss America but did. Her music career fell in place and later she got some big film roles.

R142, it is indeed implied by some twat that Vanessa Williams did porn because of the emotional damage inflicted on her by molestation as a child. And that's bullshit. And you must need to get your cataracts removed, because those sure aren't "nudie pics." They're images of pussy eating and asshole licking and meat flaps hanging out. Not nudes; porn pics.

^ Seek help, Anita.

r140 = daily watcher of The View.

Damn, she had an ugly vagina. Ugly tits, too.

Regardless of her reasons. It's stupid how much of a big deal it is for hopeful young actors to do nude and pornographic photos or films. Especially given how many actors and actresses are huge whores who slept their way to the top. Vanessa didn't plan for a Hollywood career anyways. Music and theater was her passion and she ended up doing film roles that were offered to her due to her success in pop music. Yes, I understand the cultural meaning of Miss America being pristine, wholesome, Christian and virginal and why she had massive backlash at the time. But all this shows is hypocrisy.

I believe years ago, Bonnie Mace confirmed that SHE was the other woman in the photos with Vanessa, something about Vanessa having admitted to eating a whole bunch of onion rings and a bowl of dried fruit right before the photoshoot...

How about she was BOTH abused and stupid? One does not exclude the other.

Fixed it fer ya!

[quote] Interesting, since she's said that it was Black people who stood by her.

She said whatever she needed to.

Has any Miss America winner won both Miss Congeniality AND the top prize?

I remember clearly watching the show live on TV with my sister. Vanessa blew everyone's socks off but we just knew that no way was a black woman going to win.

When Suzette Charles won first runner up, I was so disappointed because there was no way Vanessa could take the top crown.

When her name was announced, my sister and I jumped up and down, so excited. Yes, I'm gay

She won 2 NAACP awards for her debut album R151 and specifically thanked the black community for standing behind her.

Once R152 Vonda Kay Van Dyke in 1964 .

[R154] She won 2 NAACP awards for her debut album and specifically thanked the black community for standing behind her.

And that was the entire point for her comeback. Her manager decided that she had to get back into the good graces of Blacks first--so her first albums were R&B and her first acting jobs were in black-majority cast shows.

What do you expect her to say at an awards show: You suck for turning your back on me for photos of my snatch?

[quote]Once R152. Vonda Kay Van Dyke in 1964 .

I remember that year. Vonda Kay's talent was a ventriloquism act, complete with a dummy.

Vonda Kay was also the oldest winner at 26.

Vonda Kay is 78 now.

Vanessa was a party girl who liked to fuck and get high. She's admitted to it and doesn't apologize. I really like her.

Seth Rudetsky interviewed her on his podcast.

She’s a hoot and talks all about her sexual adventures.

Did she have a lot of lesbo sexual adventures? After seeing those pictures I would think so. She looked like she was having a really good time getting her pussy licked by another female.

She could have done more dance music in the 90s.

I know this is weird to say because he’s white but she always looked a bit like a female Rob Lowe to me.

VW is known to be “frugal” to a fault….if frugal includes “stealing “ an architects renderings and having basically the same structure line for line built “for cheap”… This is when she was struggling with severe forehead acne.

R164 = Suzette Charles

How generous of the Tiki Lounge at the EZ-8 to give you so much off time to post on the web.

R1 is seriously misremembering or misrepresenting the photos that led to her resignation. They were homoerotic but completely software.

No, she should not have been fired. The photos were tame and they were taken before she even entered the pageant system. It was puritanical Reagan-era bullshit, plain and simple. Racism also probably played a factor.

Vanessa Williams is one of the most beautiful Miss Americas of all time, but she is hands-down, no-competition, the most TALENTED ever crowned.

Hey *softCORE. Stupid autocorrect

R164, what's the story?

[quote]No, she should not have been fired. The photos were tame and they were taken before she even entered the pageant system.

Labia-licking photos would hardly have been considered "tame" in 1984.

Erotic photos!! HOW DARE SHE!!!!

There's not a single image of a "labia" you fucking moron.

R168. She wanted a pool house/“folly” built in westchester, had an architect draw up nice blueprints, and “went in another direction”…..basically building the original structure but with another firm.

She literally presented her labia.

Inner and outer.

Clit lapping:

More clit lapping:

Vanessa goes in for a snack:

She is a few years older than me and we went to the same high school. I used to see her around town and even as a kid she was strikingly beautiful.

[quote] It was puritanical Reagan-era bullshit, plain and simple.

Thank God for Prince and Madonna. They raised a giant middle finger to all of that Reagan-era Moral Majority bullshit and really helped to change things.

R177, are you from Chappaqua? Where do you live now?

R172, and you know this how exactly? No way contractors would build without architectural drawings.

Vanessa's father was pretty good-looking.

R172 the architect’s ex told me. Apparently she had the drawings copied somehow. I dunno how it all works. I inherited my house, and it was already built.

"The photos were tame and they were taken before she even entered the pageant system."

"Tame? Only if you consider pussy eating, rimming, and beef flaps on display "tame." You're an idiot fangurl.

R182, except for the architect to even have made the drawing, he would have had to be hired and paid. That's what the story is confusing.

[quote] "Tame? Only if you consider pussy eating, rimming, and beef flaps on display "tame." You're an idiot fangurl.

Like Melania's pictures. But those didn't stop her from being the best first lady EVAHHHHH!

Ugh, if this happened today, she would just start an Onlyfans and make bank…..

This would be such a non-scandal today.

Vanessa was surprised she got that far into Miss America. She was aiming for Miss Syracuse and thought that because she was black that that was as far she would get. She won Miss New York and then Miss America. She just wanted to get scholarship money. This interview is actually from 1992 since she said she was 29, her album came out that year and so did Stompin' At The Savoy.

Who's the moron now, R171?

[quote]She must the most successful Miss America ever.

I beg to differ!

- Bess Myerson

It's nice seeing thin natural women from the 1970s/80s instead of the overblown silicone implanted, shaved caricatures of today.

I think Vanessa is bisexual with a preference for men. She seemed to be enjoying herself in those photos. I'm sure she still gets down the ladies in between marriages.

Personally, I thought it was bullshit that the publisher came out with them - he could have waited until her year was over and still made a lot of money.

But no - this asshole had to go ahead with the thing to make money. There are so many photographers that are abusive in this way - particularly in fashion.

It's just accepted - until recently.

Are the old Miss America pageants online? It might be fun to watch the ones from the 60s.

Also remember the story of the one-piece white swimsuit? A guy in Texas owned it —he was involved in the Miss Texas organization—and the story was that it had been worn in the M A pageant for like, eight years and whoever wore it won. It was yellowing and falling apart by the end.

I remember the acne, when she did commercials for Proactiv. The before/unretouched pics were unbelievable.

After Lena Horne, she's my favorite colored woman.

The scandal saved her from obscurity.

Bob Guccione was a sleaze. Glad he died with his empire in shambles.

R195, I was surprised she would do those ProActiv commercials, but there was a time she would do anything just to get her career jumpstarted

Someone I know shared an elevator with Vanessa once. She she said she was short and had bad acne scars.

[quote] he said she liked to party and get high and fuck

So, a typical American college student. The girl next door, you might say.

It was the MAKING of her!

"So, a typical American college student."

The typical American college student doesn't get photographed doing lesbian porn, pussy lips hanging out, stuffed into S&M gear. Nope, not a whole lot of them do THAT.

R203 has been triggered!!

[quote] The typical American college student doesn't get photographed doing lesbian porn, pussy lips hanging out, stuffed into S&M gear.

That's only for First Ladies!!

[quote] The typical American college student doesn't get photographed doing lesbian porn, pussy lips hanging out, stuffed into S&M gear. Nope, not a whole lot of them do THAT.

The typical American college student who was molested at age 10 by a woman performed oral sex on her likely would.

She did the proactiv commercials in the early aughts r199 along with Judith light. She was one of their first big celebrities to do infomercials for them which opened the door for a bunch of big named stars to pop up in them.

Why exactly is it horrible to have posed in those photos?

I understand that was a different time, but it was BS puritanism that the GOP hoisted on America--and we know very well how they weren't so innocent themselves.

It isn't Mary Ann Mobley, my bad. Dixie was part of an Elvis Medley (!), sung by Dana Rivers, Miss Texas, in her Gunne Sax by Jessica Mclintock Evening gown:

The fringed pantsuit in action!:

The big 80s hair and makeup makes all of those young women look 10 years older than they are lol. But they all very looked healthy and in shape.

"The typical American college student who was molested at age 10 by a woman performed oral sex on her likely would."

Was that her excuse for the pussy licking and rimming and beef curtain pictures? I think that's a load of bullshit. She was just slutty, that's all. My guess is that she found the idea of "erotic" photos of her getting eaten out and rimmed showing off her vertical bacon sandwich "exciting." If somebody wants to be immortalized on film doing that shit, who gives a fuck. But to try out for Miss America with those pictures lying around....well, she must be too stupid to live.

R208 this was new ground in 1984. Miss Americas just didn’t do this kind of stuff, complete with lesbian poses. If it was just the nudity, she might’ve weathered it, considering it was almost time to give up her throne. The apology she got was kind of dumb, considering it was an entirely different regime at MA who offered it, but there might’ve been more going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. I’m usure if they vetted the contestants back then, but at the very least they might’ve asked her if there is anything in your past we need to know. If she said no, obviously a big lie. I was 17 at the time it went down and it was HUGE.

If you block R212 he has an an unhealthy vitriol for Vanessa Williams but is rabidly defending Betty Broderick, you know the woman that killed 2 people and destroyed her family.

What does Vanessa Williams have to do with Betty Broderick? R214 must be retarded or something.

R215 must be a partial birth abortion survivor and child molester!

Now that the latter has been mentioned in a thread about the former, I have to say that I've been enjoying the vociferous arguments seen in both the Vanessa and Betty threads in the past few days.

And they say that DLers are stuck in the 80s/90s. Crazy talk!

R215. Think about it for a while. Take all the time that you need...

R218, if you think there are parallels between Vanessa Williams and Betty Broderick you are one crazy twat.

No parallels r219, because ONE IS FUCKING WORSE THAN THE OTHER ONE. DAMN.

R213, I was 28, and it WAS NOT HUGE. If it was Miss America and a guy, the reaction would have been the same. In fact, I thought the poses were very tame after hearing they were hot - the postman at my office had a bunch of copy machine made copies he was handing out. A few years later he was doing the same thing with topless Madonna pics from some magazine. In 2021 he'd lose his job, in the 1980s, NO.

R221 yeah it was big at the time. The lez stuff just added another taboo, unsavory aspect to it that made it worse for her. This was 1984 not 2021 so you should remember. Gay anything was extremely controversial and a huge no no from any entertainer, or anyone who wanted to become one. I agree, with a guy it probably would’ve had the same outcome, but without the same bite the story had. It took Williams until the end of the decade to recover. It’s a testament to her talent she was able to put it behind her where it might’ve easily taken someone else completely under for good.

There were a lot of attempted take downs. Madonna had the best response- “So what” which really was the beginning of the end of these attempted take downs. Madonna’s photos took some heat off of Vanessa’s ordeal and Vanessa has said Madonna’s response helped her to move on from the scandal.

R222, IT IS 1984 I am remembering. Maybe this was earth shattering for you as a kid wherever you were. For an adult like I was in NYC, it was not.

It got more focus also because Williams was such a popular Miss America. Partly due to all the publicity of being the first black woman but she was also so pretty and vivacious.

The pageant had already started to fade. People would win but then you'd never see them again until the next year. (they did local appearances and stuff but no major media.) Williams was everywhere. (as someone said above they doubled her schedule without paying her more.)

She was even on The Love Boat. I think she played herself. Not sure what the plot was. (I'm sure someone will remember.)

Didn't Suzette Charles have some problem with being cut from the movie Hair?

I thought she was supposed to sing Frank Mills? (Frank Mills isn't used in the movie but its on the record though Annie Golden one of the leads sings it.)

Suzette is boring AF.

Suzette Charles, like a lot of those Miss America people looked so much older than most 20 year olds. I guess it is the old style hair.

Vanessa looked young, fresh, vibrant and inoncence (which probably added to the shock when she wasn't.)

Did Vanessa not see Fame? Didn't Irene Cara's teeny titties teach her anything?

I for one cherish Ms. Vanessa Williams. Goddess. And beautiful voice.

Vanessa looked so much better when she ditched the big 80s hair. As I've said it made everyone look 10 years older and harsh cake of makeup didn't help either. Vanessa truly was a doll though. Her beauty really hit its stride in the 90s and 200s.

Too gorgeous and too talented to allow a little sex scandal stand in her way to success.

Vanessa could play Kamala in a movie.

This whole incident is a big example of pre-internet "cancel culture". Republicans and Evangelicals led this moral majority crusade for decades and they pushed "PC culture" and forced "wholesome Christian family values" down people's throats. Before that there was the McCarthy witch hunts. Hardcore conservatives had no issues ruining people's lives and careers over past mistakes, contrary opinions or rumors that aren't even true.

R224 not earth shattering for me lol I have no problem with nudity or anything gay, being gay myself. I still think beauty pageants are anachronistic and stupid, so it wasn’t like she quit something major. She was almost at the end of her time doing it anyway. It was right in the middle of the Reagan presidency, so the moral majority and 80s cancel culture were in full swing.

Nobody would have given a damn about the lesbian porn and naked snatch pictures if they hadn't been of someone who was Miss America. Miss America is supposed to represent the ideal of young womanhood. I don't think those pictures represented the ideal of anything, except maybe the ideal pussy eater.

Guess what was going on with the children in much of those Christian conservatives’ households and families, R234. “Wholesome”, my ass (directed at them, not you).

The follwing year the pagent added in the contracts that they MUST be born actual women, and thet they must NEVER have posed for photo's naked.

Interesting, so we may had transgender Miss America contestants and winners in the past prior to that clause.

*have had

Almost no young woman thought Miss America represented the ideal of young womanhood. The women’s movement blew a big hole in that and by 1983 there were many more scholarship opportunities for women that didn’t involve wearing a swimsuit and dyed to match heels.

Vanessa has middling talent- pleasant enough voice, passable actress. Nothing special.

"Almost no young woman thought Miss America represented the ideal of young womanhood. "

I doubt you speak for all young women. At any rate, the winner of the Miss America was always put on a pedestal as an example of womanhood that should be strived for. Ever heard the Miss America song" It goes:

There she is, Miss America

There she is, your ideal

The dream of a million girls who are more than pretty can come true

in Atlantic City

For she may turn out to be the Queen of femininity

There she is, Miss America

There she is, your ideal

With so many beauties she took the town by storm

With her all-American face and form

And there she is

Walking on air, she is

Fairest of the fair, she is

There she is - Miss America!

R243

I'm pretty sure the feminist movement of the 1960s shifted that paradigm. Maybe it was still "ideal" in very rural and suburban areas that lean conservative. Vanessa herself said in an interview, she didn't know that much about it or understood the significance of beauty pageants because she's from the Northeast and grew up near the NYC metropolitan area. That's a big reason why those pictures she took weren't a big deal for her and she seemed kinda surprised by the reaction. I doubt Vanessa would have done what she did if she was from the South or Midwest.

R243 as others pointed out Miss America would get about a half a weeks publicity then spend the rest of her year cutting ribbons and signing autographs at county fairs.

How transphobic, R238! SPILL: which one of those bitches would never be a mother?

I did hear that either Vanessa or the woman she was posing with ate a burrito right before the shoot and the other one was NOT happy about it all during the shoot.

And look at how irrelevant the pageant has become. As unfortunate as the photos were, I doubt that any of the contestants were as pure as the driven snow. They just didn’t get caught.

I was pissed with her when I found out. I was on a naval frigate in Japan when it happened and it was awful, especially the things that most of the white guys were saying. Some of the black men and other groups too, but most of the derogatory comments, sexual, racial and otherwise came from white boys. I’m surprised that we didn’t have a race riot.

But hey, it was all on her, she owned up to her mistake and she had a great career as a singer and actress.

And there was a contingent in the black community that resented her win because of her light skin, green eyes and sandy brown hair. It seemed like when Debbye Turner won many felt better about her victory because she was considerably darker than Vanessa. At least in my circle.

[quote]I'm pretty sure the feminist movement of the 1960s shifted that paradigm

The Women's Movement was of the 1970s, not the 1960s. In the 60s, female game show contestants were still asked "what does your husband do?' as part of their introduction before the game. In the 1970s, that question was totally unacceptable, by the 1980s, funny.

I think In Living Color had a great sketch; someone imitated Vanessa and did a stylized lyric performance 'Save the Best for Last'

at this point Vanessa had rebounded and the lyrics went something like 'Looks like we've saved the best for last and now you can all kiss my ass.'

yeah, this is it.

Good for Vanessa.

Feminists were burning bras at the 1968 pageant r249 and the second wave was in full gear by then. Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem were out in full force at that point.

Burning bras at the 1968 pageant? Boy, that sounds really stupid. Bra burning was idiotic, anyway. What good does it do to burn your fucking bra?

R253, burning bras was symbolic of destroying the patriarchy. The only reason women are trained to wear a bra is to make breasts all perky for men to admire.

[quote] Because unlike today, back then people had a sense of decency.

I hear for all the display of her cooter, she doesn't get wet.

R252, No one paid attention until the 1970s, there was not much press until the marches of the 1970s. A movement does not become a Movement until a large amount of ordinary people take notice.

"The only reason women are trained to wear a bra is to make breasts all perky for men to admire."

Not really. Women, especially big breasted women, need the support of a bra to keep their tits from flopping around uncomfortably. They also wear them out of modesty; they don't want strange men to be ogling their visible nipples and untethered mammaries. Bras are a coverup more than anything else, unless you wear one of those push-up bras that squash the tits upward, so as to make them look bigger and firmer. Women do wear lingerie like that to be sexually alluring to men.

National organization of women was founded in 1966, Betty Friedan’s feminine mystique came out in 1963 and was huge. By 1968 the women’s movement was in full gear. Hell one of the protestors outside in Atlantic City was a former miss America Yolanda betbeze fox.

^ I can tell you get your info from books

Is that an insult now, R260?

I find that books are awfully decorative, don’t you?

Miss Vanessa Williams is appearing at our local theater in January for a night of song.

Patti LuPone appears just a few days earlier.

And what is Suzette Charles doing that night?

[quote] And what is Suzette Charles doing that night?

Depends on what shift she’s working on at the 7-Eleven.