The Hoover Darn Is At An All Time Low

That will teach them.

Another West Coast drought. It'll burn brightly again this year.

OP Esther Rolle has some words for you.

When it gets to 875 feet, they cut off the water to Arizona. It’s been going down for twenty years. The Colorado River supplies Arizona, parts of New Mexico and Southern California. Everyone is pretending somehow it will be okay, but it looks like eventually Arizona will be cut off. The dam is also a source of electricity for the area and the lower it drops, the less electricity will be available. So there will eventually be power shortages too. And it’s really really hot in the summer and getting hotter all the time.

Las Vegas was named “The Meadows” because it had a lot of groundwater that supplied the city. That was all drained off and it’s gone now. It’s Hoover Dam or nothing, basically.

R4 I thought it meant Whale’s Vagina

I’m concerned that as the Hoover Dam water level continues to drop, there are going to be large cities with no water. What will happen? They can’t supply all of Arizona with water trucks. The end result may be a huge migration of people who just don’t want to think about it, suddenly being forced to move en masse. That’s going to affect property values for the neighboring states. People are already looking for housing out of the Southwest because the heat gets worse every year.

I’ve been looking for places with enough water, they seem to be remote northern areas with no jobs or hospitals or infrastructure, that are all Republican and Qanon. Or the Great Lakes area, which is very cold and a long distance away if you don’t like it. That’s a rough move.

The main issue is we’ve been draining groundwater without a care in the world for most of the twentieth century, and it’s getting to crisis level. Too much overreliance on snowpack which may not be there in drought years.

I ran across an article recently that suggested a lot of the Southern U.S. may end up uninhabitable in the next hundred years or less, mostly because of water, then heat. All those people will migrate north and overload the resources. And there will be lots of hostility towards the migrants, we’re already seeing that in lots of places, because property becomes unaffordable.

I read that if the water level drops below a certain level, it drops below the level of some of the drainage holes that head south. So it wouldn’t necessarily have to run dry, just get below a certain level.

There’s also negotiated contracts between the states that were negotiated decades ago, about who gets the water. They need to be renegotiated, because the populated areas have totally changed in that time. But there’s not going to be more water anyway, so it’s just going to be a futile fight. The states upstream will not agree.

Just send in Chrissy for a swim....that'll restore levels back to normal.

Seriously, if the Southwest groundwater is spent, and the Midwest groundwater is rapidly being drained by fracking and overpopulation, and that’s our breadbasket for a lot of the country, the U.S. could be in very bad shape in just a few decades. Unable to grow food in areas that previously fed the country, no water, and extreme weather like tornadoes and floods. And California is our other breadbasket area, and it’s a tinderbox.

It’s either that or places with six feet of snow where you can freeze to death going out to the car.

The ruins of St. Thomas, which was inundated by Lake Mead in the 30s are now totally exposed due to the low lake level. If you're in Vegas and have a car, it's an interesting outing. And an easy hike-totally flat. Just bring plenty of water and sunscreen if you attempt it in the dead of summer.

[quote]and that’s our breadbasket for a lot of the country, the U.S. could be in very bad shape in just a few decades.

it will be a shock. but the southwest is a very very new culture, barely fifty years old. they will depart the area. the "midwest" as you call it is really the ohio river valley and that still to this day is the most fertile area in all of north america, despite its recent rust belt past. iowans and kansans will have to find places to relocate to like the gulf coast and well, pittsburgh. it wouldn't be impossible. it would be a shock but not impossible to adjust.

indeed though, the southwest never had much more than a hundred years in it.

I was reading that Lake Mead had been dropping gradually since the 1940s, more or less. Which tells you it was never sustainable, and probably oversold as a long term solution. The population in Arizona and Las Vegas was very low then.

Maybe different pipelines can be built? Duluth MN is only 5 states away from Phoenix AZ. They just down Keystone, let’s move some water from Lake Superior.

R12, Good luck getting the locals to agree. If you saw the fighting going on now about Colorado River water, you’d know what a hard sell that would be.

Why is Hoover swearing?

yeah, what easterners don't know is that the mountain states and California hate each other with a passion of the fiery sun

Has Las Vegas put a moratorium on new construction? Rhetorical question, because they haven't. What do they know that the article isn't telling us?

This shows you that the problem is being overhyped by the chicken little environmentalists.

It's coming, may not happen in lifetime or anyone posting on DL now, but never the less it's coming.

Arizona, California, Nevada, and Mexico are going to start squabbling in a big way over water as it becomes more scarce. No one is going to want to give up anything, but somethings will have to go. Agriculture which is a huge industry for CA, but also is water intensive due to types of crops grown currently.

Desalination plants could help (CA has one already IIRC), but that costs money.

I think Henderson is one of the fasting growing cities in the country R16. They can't built the tract housing fast enough to meet demand. Of course, I'm cynical and think it's all a bubble that'll burst soon. Just like it did in 2007/2008 and you had a zillion foreclosures there.

R16, the economy of Las Vegas stands on three legs: entertainment, medical and construction. Take away construction, the economy would crash so severely the whole place would collapse. Same with the other two. It’s a pyramid scheme economy.

There is no way to quit building here without putting half the men out of work. During the Great Recession, I had neighbors in construction who lost their homes because there was no work. There were so many foreclosures and bankruptcies I could drive for blocks and it was one empty business or house after another. In some areas in was 30% housing vacancies or more. It took years to recover. California recovered much faster.

That’s part of the reason I want to get out of here. Every recession hits harder here, there’s not enough economic diversity.

r19, maybe you answer, what kind of moron would live in Las Vegas?

As long as my smug Republican ex-boss in Arizona gets negatively impacted I'm ok with this.

There is plenty of water in Brooklyn so I am ok.

I came to take care of a sick, elderly family member who is now gone. I have no reason to stay here now and I want to get the hell out of here.

Why do other people come? I had an alcoholic friend who heard I was coming here and he wanted to stay with me so he could find his own place. I said no, because you would drink yourself to death here, because it’s true. The bars never close, nothing to do with gambling ever closes. Addicts from around the country come here. They want to re-enact Leaving Las Vegas and drink themselves to death where their family can’t see.

Con artists from around the country come here. They score and leave. Mormons come here, they like it for some reason. Maybe to get away from parents. Retired people come because they can sell their California home and have lots left over. House poor Californians that have had it with the homeless and high cost of living come here so they can put something towards their retirement, instead of living hand to mouth.

One of the things I don’t like is there seem to be a lot of mentally unbalanced people. Some because of drugs and alcohol or gambling addiction, some are just nuts. A lot of unstable people. It’s very hard to make friends, people are either batshit crazy, drunk or afraid you are and very paranoid and unfriendly. I don’t have kids, could be different. But the people I know with kids in California don’t want to educate them here because of drugs. And crime is rampant too. People endlessly interfering with cars, stealing them or trying to rob houses. I live in a gated community and outside the gate, on Nextdoor it sounds like it’s Mad Max out there.

CA has a long coast line, can't they just get water front the ocean?

They’ve been talking about building a desalination plant off the coast of California for years. I wish Biden would put that money in an infrastructure plan and get it done. It would solve California’s water problems and leave more Colorado River water for the Southwest.

California has eleven (11) desalination plants on line currently.

I just read about a desalinization plant bear San Diego, it cost $1 billion and provides 7% of San Diego’s water. But the plants use a lot of electricity and so they’re burning fossil fuels. They’re also afraid they’ll rot the pipes and maybe harm people long term, it sounds like the filters aren’t really good enough yet. They filter the water and discharge some of it as super salty brine water, which kills all the fish.

Desalination is costly but it must start in California. Plants should be included in the infrastructure bill - if that ever gets passed.

If money is spent, it should be to pay people to move to where there is still water, and to block new people from moving to where water is scarce.

R22 Plus the Nevada system of taxation is totally fucked up and almost entirely dependent on gambling/tourism. That doesn't work out too well when you have recessions and pandemics. And if you even mention some sort of a state income tax, the people here freak the fuck out. I live in Reno and we have lots of transplants (myself included) who moved here because they don't want to pay any state income taxes. Unfortunately, they still expect all of the government services. The homeless problem here is also getting really bad but nobody wants to pay or deal with it. The local Democrats tried to enact a tax to pay for shelters, etc. but it got shot down.

I know what you mean about crazy people--I see plenty of them around town here and wonder if they're gambling addicts and junkies. But the silver lining with Reno is that our economy is more diversified than Vegas, which helped with the recession and pandemic. And it's not 10,000 degrees here in the dead of summer. ;)

North Vegas r22?

[Quote] Desalination is costly

So is the homeless and the Newson recall but we constantly spend spend spend for things in the now. Spend for the future.

^ are

More:

Why has my area gotten nonstop rain for the past few years and the West and SW are in a drought? It doesn't seem possible.

I would much rather live in a drought area than a continuously rainy area like where I live. Nothing is more depressing and soul-crushing than non-stop rain.

^ Where do you live?

Phoenix is a horrible built environment and wastes a lot of water. Apparently Phoenix is now storing water for future use, but I doubt it will be enough. They haven't really put any water restrictions in place yet. All those developments in phoenix with lush green lawns and parks is insane. I think my parents (who live in suburban Chandler) said that homeowners could get some sort of tax credit or rebate if they replaced their yard with desert landscaping,

This story is about Pahrump, Nevada, west of Las Vegas. They want to drain their groundwater dry and are lying to newcomers about having much more water than they do have.

Desalinization may be the necessary answer (short of any sort of mass societal effort to change development patterns and usage - which we should be able to do, but won't). As sea levels go up, I doubt there's a risk of running out of seawater. But, how can it be made less energy intensive? Solar powered desalinization plants?

R30, Northwest Las Vegas which is supposed to be nice. It’s a suburban area. People post videos on Nextdoor of people trying to break into cars, stealing from them, and a lot of stories about crazy drivers and stolen cars. One guy’s car was stolen from inside his garage.

Recently I was out driving in the morning, and a big pickup truck across the street started wildly driving in circles across six lanes of traffic in both directions. He drove in a circle several times, so erractically I pulled over. I was completely across the street, going in the opposite direction from where he started, and I was afraid he was going to hit me head on, that’s how big the circles were. Everybody else around him stopped too. He suddenly pulled out of his circles, making burnout noises and drove away. People here are notoriously bad drivers or drunk drivers. You have to drive very defensively.

R36, that’s what they did in Vegas and it worked pretty well. Basically, people and businesses were paid off to rip out their lawns and do desert landscaping. Some people just did gravel, but a lot of people have done drought resistant plants. The problem is, they ripped out most organic things and replaced with fake metal plants or concrete or rock, and there’s less and less trees to provide shade. The rock and concrete just reflects the heat and makes it hotter.

They just passed a law here that says anyone with a business has to rip out their lawn. That’s not many now anyway. I’m wondering how long it is until they do something about the golf courses. My local one has “desert landscaping,” but it still has lawn. They just mean the areas on the sides have desert plants.

They’ve ripped plants out of the medians and replaced them with metal plants and landscaping like this.

Darn!

I'm beginning to think one of the qualifications to being a politicians is being an idiot. They never think anything through. For every action there is a reaction, but politicians only look at the action.

*politician

Most of the metal landscaping pieces aren’t horses, that’s just for the sides of the freeway. For the medians, it’s metal cactus and roadrunners and coyotes. It’s actually well done. They’re mostly brownish like the horses above.

This is Cactus Joe’s, a local nursery. They also sell metal sculptures for homeowners, less elaborate than the horses. The video goes through the grounds, you can see what kind of landscaping there should be in this type of climate. But the problem is, if you rip out the grass and don’t replace it with at least gravel, the dust flies up and there can be dust storms. That’s a big issue in the desert, when construction companies are grading land, they have to water it down so a dust storm doesn’t happen. If lots of people just ripped out their lawns and said fuck it, that’s all I’m doing, it would create a huge mess and reduce air quality.

All the hardscaping is depressing.

R45, when you come from someplace like LA, where there’s greenery everywhere, it is. When I visit LA and see all the green, I don’t want to come back. But LA is too expensive for me now. I’m still looking for someplace with water that’s not in Qanon land or with heavy snow.

I think places like Santa Fe probably do it a lot better, because it has more of an artsy, colorful Mexican vibe, so it’s not so barren looking. Your eye wants to find something living.

Build in a desert or adjacent to one and you have water issues. Who would have thunk it!

There was a show R47, Life After People or something like that. If you allowed nature to take over Arizona would be more tropical than desert. This diverting of water has caused problems for years. I'm talking about diverting water within the states.

R45, the problem is, the whole Southwest is basically like that. When all the cities were small and underpopulated, it was fine. If you liked quiet and the desert, it was fine. But if somebody doesn’t do something about the uncontrolled growth, Phoenix is going to end up the size of NYC at the exact moment the water runs out. And when I say out, I mean out. In Nevada, they seem to think draining every drop of groundwater is fine. It is not fine. I read some areas are so drained, the houses break in half because the surface level drops so much. When you do this, you’re depending on snowpack and river water. During droughts, there isn’t enough, and we know droughts are going to become more and more severe. It’s already happening.

Where I am right now, it’s pretty nice. But it’s not sustainable. It’s the Republican attitude of, who cares what happens next, get that last dollar no matter what. I don’t want to be here in the day the water runs out, I want to sell and find someplace with water before the property values are so high I can’t leave. If I was twenty years older, I’d stay probably. But it could be in my lifetime. I know in my lifetime it’s going to be more and more miserable here. This next week the temps will be from 110-115 degrees.

I think desert landscaping done right - and the general desert landscape period can be very pretty. But, as was said upthread - when you're from somewhere with lots of green, it's tough to not see much of it. But if I lived in Phoenix or Vegas, I'd definitely desert landscape around my home.

Are you in Arizona R49? I live in Phoenix. We have irrigation for some neighborhoods. In these older neighborhoods that have irrigation, if you stopped you would kill most of the trees and other vegetation. I understand our water problem, but I see people wasting water constantly. My neighbor uses water to hose off his driveway instead of using a broom. People need to conserve, but as long as there is water coming out of the faucet they won't.

R50, if you were in Vegas, they would pay you to rip your lawn out. The Water District has a demonstration garden of desert plants so people can see, there are a lot of award winning landscapers that do nice work with cacti and natural grasses. A few trees work well, they use a lot of pines here.

I think the problem is, these plants are expensive, some cacti can sunburn or get frost damaged so you’re limited, and even “drought resistant” plants like lavender have a hard time in direct sun. You see a lot of Rosemary because it can take it. But hardly any succulent ground cover, like ice plants in Southern California, because it’s too much water. So your choices are very narrow and limited unless you have a lot of money to spend. And very few flowering plants, except for a few cacti, last past spring. The weather in Vegas can vary from 120 degrees to 20 degrees in a year, even a lot of desert plants can’t take that. More trees are needed to help shade houses and plants, but they take water.

I think Vegas is really a good example of global warming, we’re on the cutting edge of climate change.

"You see a lot of Rosemary because it can take it."

R52 - that reminds me of how in Phoenix metro when I go to see my parents around Christmas, so many places sell rosemary shaped into little "pine" trees. It's adorable. Lol. People keep them in their pot in the house during the holidays and then plant them afterwards (well I'm sure many are thrown away, but some people do plant them).

Gracie) So they went to vacation at Boulder Dam

George) Hoover Dam, Gracie

Gracie) What?

George) Hoover Dam, they changed the name from Boulder Dam to Hoover Dam, to honor President Hoover

Gracie) Well isn't that just like the government, always doing things the hard way. Changing a the name of a great big dam. It would've been much easier to change his name to Herbert Boulder

R51, no, I’m in Vegas. I really like Tucson and thought about moving there for a while, but the Republican government there is terrible, and the weather there seems to be heating up pretty quickly. Same here. And the water situation in Arizona is unsustainable. They’re further down the water line from Hoover Dam, and the water leases are written so the further down you are, in case of drought, the more you’re going to get cut off. I just read that the holes or conduits in the dam that send water to various areas are set so high in the dam, the water level might drop below the hole’s height. Then we’re all fucked.

For those that don’t live in the desert, the problem isn’t the high temperature, it’s the low temperature. During the day if it’s hot, you can stay inside. But if it never cools down at night, your a/c doesn’t get to rest, the house fans don’t rest, your car tires don’t cool down, on and on. Your car battery dies in summer from the heat. And every day the house gets hotter because you can’t open windows at night, or ever, for months. The heat builds up inside and only running the a/c continually keeps it livable. Most people here keep the thermostats set at 79 or higher in the summer. Any cooler and you’ll over work your a/c. A/C is supposed to keep the house 20 degrees cooler without freezing up or wearing out. It can be 100 degrees at midnight here.

Animals run out of water, and wild animals are desperate for water. If there’s the tiniest hole in your house, bugs and small animals are either trying to get in, or they hang around the door where the cool air comes through the cracks. It’s gets so hot, birds can’t fly. If it gets really hot, planes can’t fly.

In the desert southwest it’s so easy to grow cactus…peyote to be specific…that’s all the green I need

My parents are 74 and live in Phoenix metro. My sister and I have been encouraging them to move -- not because of weather, but so they can be closer to one of us. But, from a weather perspective, while it's bad 6 months of the year and truly awful three months, I'm thinking that they'll avoid Phoenix end times - or simply a huge water shortage - before they die. The suburban Phoenix house we'll inherit will probably be worth less. Lol.

There is a law that in order to build new communities you need to show proof there would be enough water to last 100 years. I thought I read somewhere that law was scrapped. Unless you can provide more housing you are limiting your growth and become stagnant.

R51, they probably scrapped it because you could never build anywhere in the bottom half of the U.S. again. What’s happened is the government now realizes we’re living at an unsustainable level and somebody’s going to get screwed no matter what, so they’ve chosen poor people. Rich people are going to make killing on building unsustainable buildings until a crisis happens.

I’ve been trying to read about areas affected by future global warming. So far, I’m getting the best place in the U.S. is the Great Lakes area and some areas around the Canadian border. That’s too far away for me, I’d like to find something within 500 miles if I can. I don’t know if it exists though, at lease not affordably. If companies let everyone work remotely, it would take a lot of pressure off because people would distribute themselves more evenly. They wouldn’t all be swarming to places like Phoenix.

But some companies aren’t there yet. The problem is there’s no leadership giving people a realistic understanding of what’s happening, they want to minimize everything so nobody gets mad.

Israel doesn't have some amazing source of fresh water and it's in a desert. CA has been way to slow with their investment in desalination plants. They have an entire coast so there is no excuse. The Federal government needs to set them up along with pipelines to these population hot spots. Israel and Australia have been using these for decades. Time to invest in NOW. We have an entire ocean worth of water, make it work.

You have a mindset that is troubling R60. You thinking is if people won't conserve then you have to find more resources for them. No one is looking at the environment hazard they are playing with by using the ocean has their faucet.

*Your

*as

I find it funny that SoCal is finally waking up and realizing that you have to reprocess water and not just dump sewerage into the ocean.

The secret to Las Vegas survival? Return water credits.

When I read about people shitting on Chicago I think about or recent population decrease (poor people moved away) and massive fresh water lake at our doorstep. So there are slightly less people in my city and tons of water. Yeah, I'm good staying right here. My apartment is a 20 min walk from the lake on the 4th floor so if there was a flood, I'm good. I doubt I'll seriously leave here since the closer we are to Canada (tons of fresh water) and other fresh water sources, the better. The winters feel milder which is a plus!!!!!!

I'm 30 and need to plan for the long-haul.

R52- Maybe they should try planting some Weeping Willows they LOVE the desert climate.

I wish that dropped pie face Tesla guy would put his billions into desalination technology instead space exploration. We have no business setting up colonies in space but we have an urgent need for freshwater.

r61 the water levels have been decreasing since the dam was created. There is no amount of conservation outside of shutting it down, that will save the water. Earth is warming and this area is a desert. We are not going to uproot a ton of people, leaving those homes and buildings to rot. So we must do what mankind has always done, conquer nature and adapt. i agree with conservation but that's not enough given the millions of people in the area.

I love your tree hugging world view but life is only going to get harder on Earth and humans will be forced to adapt. So, it's nothing but tough choices from here. I agree everyone should have a water allowance in these areas. Grass on lawns should be banned in AZ. Leave that to public places, schools, or golf courses.

Your world view is BS R67. You can't keep taking. If you let nature take over it corrects the problems we have caused.

R67, we are going to *unwillingly* uproot a ton of people. Or they’ll uproot themselves, more likely.

The mindset now is, this is the USA, nothing bad ever happens here, we can control everything. No, we can’t. People need to understand that. There’s going to come a time, likely in 30 year old R64’s lifetime, maybe even before his retirement, that the USA is going to have a lot of working people living a hardscrabble, hand to mouth existence. Many of them will be climate refugees that lost everything when their house became worthless, or their job closed up and went somewhere with water.

I don’t mean they’re poor, I mean they’re struggling to pay an astronomical water bill, or waiting in line for rationed water off trucks by the bottle, and maybe can’t pay for A/C, or maybe everyone who can afford to move, leaves desert areas, and everybody that’s left is living in poor India type conditions. Meanwhile anybody powerful who’s left doesn’t give a shit about them, builds a wall around their own house and tells them to fuck off. I mean everything is rationed and people are living in tiny living spaces with strangers and struggling for food. Or living outside.

At that point, corruption is rampant and democracy is over, because if people are allowed to complain, they’ll be rioting day and night. People need to understand, global warming isn’t minor inconveniences, it’s places that have been livable for centuries, with lots of infrastructure, becoming unlivable. Can you live somewhere if it’s 120 degrees six months out of the year? Maybe, but if you’re old or sick it’s probably too hard, so you’ll leave. If you’re rich, you’ll move on. The poors will be stuck there, which drags the whole place down. Then you have a ghetto situation, where nobody cares about them and beats them up if they complain.

Same with areas that flood every year. At a certain point, anyone with money and a brain is leaving. The people that are left are the dregs, and the area gets written off as a hellhole. Americans aren’t used to written off areas, but we’re already getting there in certain places, like fire zones in California. How many times can you rebuild your uninsurable house, or repair your broken air conditioner, and afford it? There’s a limit. We’re undergoing a major societal shift right now, from “everything has a solution,” to not everything is solvable, and many people don’t see it.

What climate change???

R46 NM is also having a water issue.

The SW is becoming Tatooine. Maybe water vapor farming will become big!

Can the federal government step in and redistribute water? I'm not saying this is right thing to do, but I'm just wondering to what extent individual states "own" their water. Clearly if a state has a freshwater lake entirely within its borders then that belongs to the state, along with its ground water reserves, but what about rivers that run through states and lakes like The Great Lakes that border certain states but don't belong fully to them?

Cloud seeding has also been tried in parts of the West in an effort to increase precipitation, but it hasn't produced much in terms of results.

R73, right now it’s state government doing it. I guess if it was on federal land, the federal government could do it. The states are fighting over water, because thanks to emptying their groundwater, the Colorado River has to supply more people than ever.

R71, I know. I was looking into moving to Albuquerque, but it’s the same thing with different water sources. Albuquerque is on its way to becoming Phoenix. Those very dry areas were never meant for dense populations.

Looking around, state by state, unless you have a river, lake or snowpack nearby, you’re screwed. Read the local papers. They’re all talking about drought and water shortages, even places you wouldn’t think.

Add to the lack of water a longer fire season and a greater population density. It's a recipe for disaster.

Happy Friday everyone!

Everyone knows the long term problems but hardly anyone can bear to face it - because they know how enormous it is.

Even in this era of higher temps and less precipitation, we still get unusually cold and wet years - water reserves bounce back a little, temps aren't as insanely brutal during the summer. When this happens it pisses me off how people quickly latch on to that and think that the the higher temps and less precipitation might just be a blip.

We would need historic rains to even make a dent in the drought we are in.

Could something be done with the moon’s orbit to help bring more rain and lower the temperatures?

Since we own both Arizona and Nevada. Southern California is in no risk of running out of water, a smaller reduction of water maybe, both states know we can crush their economies with the small touch of a pen.

I hate to think of what could happen to both states is we cut their energy and the truckload of money we sent their way.... pobrecitos.

This ia another reason for hot young gays to find a nice man from a nice family in Europe and marry him. The USA is in a downward spiral. Americans generally don't realise how difficult life is there.

R71, I agree about the downward spiral. The news is too much about stroppy politicians and not enough about climate change effects happening now, not later. It’s like a frog in a pot of boiling water, and the temperature is gradually getting turned up.

I think part of it is that the U.S. is physically at a certain latitude and you can’t change it. More northern countries will do better.

Europe will be overrun with people from African and Middle Eastern countries who are fleeing their own climate crises. Good luck with that.

Here’s some info about the Colorado River Compact. It was signed in 1922. There have been some small alterations, but that’s mostly it.

At the time, it wasn’t understood that that was an unusually high precipitation period, so the amount of water available was always overestimated. Second, Nevada had very little population and Arizona not much more, so it’s inadequate for present needs. There are allowances made for drought, slight adjustments of less water are allocated. But this doesn’t mention that a lot of electricity is generated by the dam. The less water, the less electricity.

Arizona will soon end up with 102 inhabitants who vote in two Republican senators. Likewise the other unsustainable states that settlers should have left to the Indians in the first place.

"I think part of it is that the U.S. is physically at a certain latitude and you can’t change it. More northern countries will do better. "

True, but the US is also a huge country and there's room for northern migration. We've had decades of people moving to the Sunbelt while the Rust Belt lost people. Give it time and I bet that reverses - obviously more people to the already thriving and established further north metros (e.g., Minneapolis), but also cities like Detroit, Buffalo, Rochester that really declined from their peak.

R85, Californians are still stuffing themselves into Arizona as fast as they can. Low tax rate and cheaper housing. As long as there’s jobs, people will go there.

Instead of figuring out how to create stupid quizzes and ways to allow people to flake on more romantic prospects, the big brains on the west coast should’ve been working on effective desalination techniques.

A development company in conjunction with Kelly Slater is applying for a zoning change in the Coachella Valley desert town of La Quinta at the base of the pristine Coral Mountains. The development includes $5mm homes, 150 room hotel and an 18 MILLION GALLON WAVE POOL using fresh water from the aquifer. This water is normally used for irrigation of crops that feed much of the state as well as personal use.

Not just drawing the aquifer to fill the wave pool but also maintaining the pool due to evaporation of 230,000 gallons of water per day in the115 plus degree heat in the spring and summer season. The wave machine will require huge amounts of electricity to power the wave action for the privileged few that can afford it.

The city council is expected to approve this monstrosity for tax revenue despite local opposition. BIG business rules. A total waste of fresh water for the rich few.

I am stuck in Georgia. I have no resources to move, I am barely surviving now on disability. I want out of here so badly but see no hope of that. It is already brutally hot here. How long before we run out of water?

Georgia may be hot, but it's water prognosis is much better than the desert SW.

Calm down, R90. Georgia is fine (at least in terms of water!)

[quote] Can the federal government step in and redistribute water

Given the current state of extreme political polarization and the transformation of the Republican Party into a fascist cult, complete congressional control over water allocation and distribution would have apocalyptic ramifications.

[quote] I am stuck in Georgia. I have no resources to move, I am barely surviving now on disability.

If you have no resources to tie you down, it should be easier to move.

Thank you for the responses. R94- I have no money to relocate. I only receive $700.00 month to live. You can not save money when you have none left to save. I do not have much hope for any of us with the ignorant, corrupt, fascist right wing in charge. We do not seem to have any dems capable of fighting them. Sorry to be so negative. I had such relief and hope when Biden was elected, but the repubs still seem to be running everything. Hope I am wrong.

Ok, so I was going to retire to the southwest for the warmer climate, but scratch that, now that I've read this thread. So where should I move to? Florida will get harsher hurricanes, so forget that. What about Portland Oregon?

R81- It's the Southwest and the Southeast that will become UNLIVEABLE not the Northeast or the Upper midwest. We have abundant water supplies and ample rainfall in the Northeast. We in NY state have access to a HUGE body of fresh water in Lake Ontario and Lake Erie.

Or, maybe people should stop building homes and businesses in the middle of the fucking desert.

Best state to relocate to? I love snow because I grew up in the south without any. As much as I love it I may not be able to survive it, lol. A state like Maine would kill me the first week .

Perfect time for Gays to migrate north and establish a stronghold. If enough of us moved to Montana why not?

R100- Safety in numbers!

"Ok, so I was going to retire to the southwest for the warmer climate, but scratch that, now that I've read this thread. So where should I move to? Florida will get harsher hurricanes, so forget that. What about Portland Oregon?"

If you still want warmer, but not THAT warm, the lower midwest or "upper Southeast" would have relatively short hot and humid summers, but nothing like, say, Orlando, Phoenix, or Houston (for example). I'm talking the latitude of St. Louis, Louisville - maybe as far south as Nashville depending on the elevation. I'm not advocating these cities in particular just giving an idea of the latitude -- and the challenge for that area of the country would be finding a city or town you like. I just think it's overlooked because no one ever talks about retiring in the middle of the country if they don't already live there- either stay put wherever they might be or move to the Sunbelt or Cali if they have money.

R99, I’m with you. Need to move, but I’m not able to shovel feet of snow every winter. The other problem is I’ve been looking on Zillow and anyplace remotely attractive or with jobs has astronomical housing prices. One town in California had average housing prices over half a million, but the average salary was about $25,000. I guess that means the rich people commute, the average salary people are waitresses and laborers.

Interesting read re: solar desalination.

R102, Oklahoma is Tornado alley. It’s getting worse, global warming related I guess. Most of the cheaper places in the U.S. are bright red Qanon.

I went to a website that has you do a quiz about where you should live. They suggested Pueblo, Colorado. I thought, OK, it’s Colorado. So I started researching it. That’s where Lauren Boebert is! I would never go there.

After going through that site, I realized most of the U.S. is shithole cities.

Parts of Florida and the coast will be underwater in 50 years. Hell, the streets of Miami are flooded on an almost daily basis. But lets spend a ton of $$$ on building seawalls to protect the expensive real estate there. At some point, people will just have to flee the area and move inland.

Is Palm Springs in good shape in terms of water?

no, r107.

What about Death Valley?

R107- The expected high temperature in Palm Springs on Tuesday is 118 degrees ! That sounds HORRIBLE to me. How can anyone endure that?

117 degrees in Phoenix on Tuesday R110. I remember years ago when it was around 120 degrees crossing the street to the neighbors. It was so hot it was like the heat was taking your breath away.

Heading to Phoenix to see parents from June 16-21. Projected highs from weather.com - 117, 116, 116, 113, 109, 107. Jesus. I said in a different thread that this is their first year living out there full time. They were snowbirds for a long time before selling their MN house. I've never visited in the summer and this just seems ridiculous. Yeah, I'll be inside or in the shade most of the time and if I walk or run, it will be at 6 or 6:30 am or 9 pm in the dark. But, it' still nuts.

Also, I'm super worried about landing at SkyHarbor on Wednesday.

Taking off is your problem in high heat R113, not landing.

Okay, good. Thanks, R114. I'm going home on the "cool" day - 107.

Israel’s desalinization and wastewater purification systems should be providing the bulk of water out west. It’s ridiculous that they are still relying on the Colorado for 10x the amount of people.

If anything R115 if it is too hot they will just bump you to a later flight when it cools off.

R117, I think from now on if I'm visiting in the summer, I'll pick flights that arrive and leave early. This trip I get into PHX around 12:45 pm and leave on the 21st at 11:20 am - which I think should be okay.

You should be R118. It won't get to 117 until 11:25 am. ;)

R118, if you go later in the summer, take an earlier flight.

Can’t you just pull the hose around from the front of the house and fill it up?

R109, Death Valley is kind of interesting. They get their water from an aquifer. A lot of California and Nevada used to get their water partially from aquifers. Then the aquifers got drained due to overpopulation and over-farming. Death Valley isn’t going to have that problem for a while, because it’s too hot.

If you haven’t been there, there’s not much in the way of jobs. There’s no WiFi in a lot of areas. People have died from their car breaking down. In the parts where tourists go, there’s only a small souvenir and general store, and a high priced resort hotel or two. I don’t know where they go for food, but maybe about an hour out to the next town. Last August, it was 130 degrees out there, one of the hottest temperatures ever recorded.

If you don’t know about Scotty’s Castle, the Spanish Revival mansion built in Death Valley in the 1920s, an eccentric wealthy man built it out there and stayed with his wife there part of every year. He had serious back injuries from a car accident and the heat helped him. There was a rail out there and they would have construction supplies for the house shipped out there. The rail isn’t there any more, unfortunately.

His wife was driving out there one evening and rolled her car. The nearest hospital was hours away. She died, probably because of the long trip. There’s still nothing medical out there that I know of. People probably had to go to Barstow, which is three hours away. Today, you could go to Las Vegas, which is over two hours.

Much better than the Copper Blue album version.

"Aside from the break necessitated by five years of a land ownership dispute brought on by Herbert Hoover's early efforts to create Death Valley National Monument, the Johnsons vacationed in their Death Valley "castle" regularly until 1943, when Bessie was killed in an automobile accident at Towne Pass while she and Albert were driving through Death Valley."

R122, I don't know how the Mansom family found it fit to live in Death Valley's Barker Ranch. Talk about parched, inhospitable territory.

The water waste is out of control in the entire southwest - nobody takes it seriously. Fuck golf courses - there are over 200 golf courses in the Phoenix metro. Fuck those old boomers and their grass and non-native plants that need excessive water.

They could do something - but then all the conservatives would be up in arms about doing anything that inconveniences them. We saw that with the pandemic.

The water is not just for human consumption but also for industrial use. And with increasing population growth throughout the world and an increase in the standard of living, resources are stressed. The quantum of water that falls in an area averages out over the years, but with an increase in population, a few drought years can stress water supplies.

R124, thanks for that link. Walter “Scotty” Scott, whom the castle is named after, was kind of a Wild West DLer. He didn’t like women. He had a wife he was separated from for many years, and he wanted nothing to do with her. He wanted to drink and look after himself. He had a small shack a couple of miles from the main castle. It’s still there. When he died, it was full of open empty cans, papers and trash. There’s still old rusted cans thrown around outside. He dragged his bathtub outside and would bathe in the yard.

.There’s only a couple of women he tolerated having around, and Bessie was one. He called her Mabel. I’ve heard different versions of their relationship, sounds like they took a while to warm up to each other. But she wrote a small book about her relationship with him, and she speaks of him affectionately. The castle is shut for now, they’re restoring it and it should reopen in about a year. None of these people had any children, the entire castle and grounds was sold to the National Park Service and the profit went to charity. Their furnishings and clothes are still there.

R126, there’s a lot of golf courses in Vegas too. I don’t know why they started that, they advertised it as a tourist and retiree benefit. They’re expensive as hell to use and bring in a ton of money. But they really need to be torn up and turned into something else. Part of it is zoning, a lot are in residential areas and the residents don’t want some casino next door. At least golf is quiet.

Also, anyone with pets in the hot Western states, remember that the hot asphalt can burn their paws. Either get them some booties or walk them well after dark or first thing in the morning.

Scotty's Castle got hit by flash flooding few years ago causing extensive damage that was expensive to repair.

Death Valley National park says the place should be open by this time in 2021....

You can’t travel with pets at all for months out of the year in the Southwest. Can’t leave them in the car for two minutes, can’t walk them. Have to leave them in a hotel room and drive them straight to the next hotel room and leave them there. Can’t go in a restaurant. I don’t know how you even go to the toilet. I’ve seen some people leave the car on and run the a/c, but how safe is that, if little Fido is roaming around in there?

R131, I’ve been keeping track of it, I think they had to shut down work because of Covid. They should have been done already. But they seem to have raised the money, as far as I know. They really needed to do it anyway, the things in there are a century old now and they needed to be preserved. The flood made it possible to raise the money to restore the furnishings.

I live in a place where it's regularly -20C in the winter (Canada), which is awful -- let's face it. However, I cannot fathom wanting to live somewhere where it is so HOT. Every time I read about Phoenix, I think about Bobby Hill! It will definitely be interesting to see what happens to places like this when they become unsustainable.

R131, here’s a video from January 2020 showing the progress at Scotty’s Castle.

What does the typical electric bill run in AZ and Palm Springs during the summer months for an average-sized home?

From 2019, but the article says $477 average summer utilities.

Great Lakes water is protected from distribution.

R135, I’m in Vegas, but some people on Nextdoor were asking this recently. A woman has some kind of house issue and next month’s bill is projected to be $700. She can’t find what’s wrong. That’s not normal.

A lot of it depends on your house square footage, whether you have one floor or two, and how many appliances you have on 24/7.

If you have two floors, the hot air goes up and you have to run fans to keep it circulated or the heat all pools upstairs. If you’re living with a tree next to the house it’s better. If you have northern exposure it’s better. If you have west or south exposure it’s worse. If you’re in a townhome or apartment, and your unit is between two other units, it’s better. Any part of your house that’s on the inside walls is better, like bathrooms or closets in the middle of the house. If you have an entry closet on an outset wall, that’s hotter and your white clothes inside can turn yellow or the elastic can rot. If you have newer windows it’s better. If your glass is tinted it’s better. If you have insulated curtains it’s better, or double curtain rods with two sets of curtains.

You really need ceiling fans, they’re less power than portable fans. I use DC fans and the newest ones are very low wattage. They run on magnets, so basically once they start, they just keep going with very minimal electricity. Maybe 12 watts, maybe less if you run them on the lowest speed. AC fans can easily run 110 watts and that’s all day and night in multiple rooms. It adds up. Every room needs a ceiling fan. You can’t get the thermostat lower that 79 or you burn out your A/C. On really hot days you may have to raise it to 85. Like when it’s 115 outside. You need a fan to make it bearable.

I removed all the TVs. I watch TV on my laptop. Before that I used one TV and cable box. I unplug all the phone chargers I don’t use, don’t use landlines any more, have light switches that automatically shut off if I don’t do it. Only use a fan in the room where I am. Double curtain rods in every room. My electric bill last month was $50. The neighbors are saying theirs are around $100 right now.

I expect my summer bill to be around $120. That’s with lots of days around 105-110 degrees +. My place is around 1520 square feet. It’s an advantage to have a smaller space when you have to cool it.

It's like it has . . . panty lines.

Indian Wells. Friend pays $1,500 a month. Large house but kept at 77. Do like 138 says and you can keep it at $100. Even in PS.

R135 to their credit so many homes in Maricopa County (most of the Phoenix area) use solar panels. My mother is in a retirement community built in the 50s. Just about every home in the subdivision has solar panels so my mom gets money back from the energy company for their excess power. Everyone has rocks in their front and back yard. In some ways Phoenix use of solar panels at least helps alleviate some of the energy demand and justifies the power used for their AC!

CA does alright with solar panels but you’d think it would be mandated for all new build by now, at least in SoCal.

Only 8% of the energy is by solar in Arizona R141 and that includes all, not just residential. Arizona still have a long way to go.

r136, you skipped insulation.

When are Americans going to change their crazy ceiling heights that rack up huge energy & AC bills?

The standard 8'0" (96 inches) ceilings are too high in these areas.

When folks sleep 33% of day in their bedroom (like me) or even 50% for some long term sleepers out there, do they need such high ceilings in their bedrooms?

My bedroom height is 6'10" high (82 inches) due to the heat vents being in the ceilings instead of the floors. It could go down to about 6'1" (73 inches) as I don't do jumping jacks or dance in there. I sleep & watch programs in bed. That's it. I don't know anyone over 6'1" anyway. They either died or moved away. If that ceiling height was legal, then I could save even more money on heating & AC bills.

Why don't dems address ceiling heights & try to lower their heights even if it just for bedrooms?

I didn't even think of 8 feet as a "high" ceiling just standard. I have 8 foot ceilings in my bungalow and it certainly doesn't look or feel high. I would think all the suburban McMansion housing with 9, 10, 11 foot or higher ceilings would be a bigger concern.

Under seven feet seems really low for a ceiling.

I have a room with 16 foot ceilings and the cool air settles and keeps the room comfortable in summer. In the winter, I have ceiling fans that circulate the heat without a problem. My heating costs are ordinary. NBD.

R145 I have 6'10" ceilings in all of my rooms & yes I pay a lower heating/AC bill as a result. All of my other dwellings in my lifetime had 8'0"' ceilings but I don't even notice the 14 inch reduction in ceiling height at all. New folks that come over to my home have to remind me that they are lower than average.

And yes I think the 9' & up are also ridiculous in water shortage areas.

I have a 13’ ceiling in my living room and it is horrible. All the hot air rises in the winter. The downstairs is much colder. In the summer, the heat pools in the upstairs bedrooms. When my thermostat is at 80 downstairs, it’s 84 in the upstairs master. I sleep in a bedroom downstairs for the worst of the summer. My last house had an 8’ ceiling and it was much easier to cool.

I forgot to mention LED bulbs. I changed every bulb in the house and it did make a big difference. In the winter, my electric bill is maybe $30. I have gas heat. I also use sconces. The LED bulbs for them are 3.5 watts. The sconces are around different areas, and they keep things lit around the rooms without using a lot of electricity. If you can’t do that, have multiple lamps in corners in different areas, and use LED bulbs.

“That Darn Hoover!”

R149 That's the alternate UK title of "The Brave Little Vacuum," obviously.

It hit a new low today.

The Hoover Dam is an insatiable bottom.

Meh. They say this every year.

The poor lawns in Bev Hills are going to turn brown! I guess they'll have to do desert xeriscaping and will end up looking like Scottsdale.

So down to below 1044 feet today. I guess one good thing is that the lake will get a really good clean up, as they're now finding all of these old, sunken boats and dead bodies in barrels. They can get rid of all this crap so that when the rains come back and the lake refills, it will be a lot cleaner than before.

They were thinking of naming the dam after Sen. Dodd of AZ, but then they thought that it just wouldn't sound right.

and you know what? I don't even care

Um skeert, Keisha!

It's fucked up. From all sides. There is no solution but dissolution. Hubris over a short few hundred years.

The misjudgements piled up one on top of the other. The absence of policy and governance. Over the years. Problem followed by bad solution followed by worse problem. Unregulated expansion. Limitless greed. Limitless corruption.

This is how this Empire is collapsing. Archeologists will find ruins of abandoned cities under the sand one day.

Mother Nature wins. As usual. Don't fuck with her, children.