Yikes. Have you heard of this church?
|by Anonymous||reply 159||June 23, 2022 3:09 AM|
Excellent documentary on C3 Toronto from CBC Gem. It's a total cult and taking in youngish, urban hipster types, not just in Toronto, but all over the world.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||June 6, 2021 5:11 AM|
Hopefully it ends up like heavens gate
|by Anonymous||reply 2||June 6, 2021 5:29 AM|
They're evangelical homophobes and don't believe in sex before marriage. There's plenty of progressive type churches around so how are they attracting so many young urbanites? I just don't get it.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||June 6, 2021 5:34 AM|
I've driven past the one in Vegas and until just now had no idea what the building was. The logo looks like it belongs on an MMA gym and I didn't notice that it said "church" anywhere.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||June 6, 2021 8:10 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 5||June 6, 2021 1:53 PM|
Their beliefs are consistent with mainstream, historic biblical Protestant Christianity. Their belief standard is what you’re find in the vast majority of Protestant churches. Like most Christian (Protestant) churches on the planet, they believe in the Bible is the inerrant Word of God and authority. I don’t know about their practices though
|by Anonymous||reply 6||June 6, 2021 2:06 PM|
I was gonna say Pentecostal or Apostolic church with a different skin to lure young people. It’s a shame, really, because this is the generation where we started teaching “gay is okay”. And now some stupid church is preying on their confusion and loneliness and undoing that progress.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||June 6, 2021 2:14 PM|
They don't seem mainstream though, R6, they seem like crazy evangelicals.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||June 6, 2021 2:17 PM|
Evangelicals are the majority of the nation’s (and world’s) consistently churchgoing Protestants, and the only growing segment of Protestantism. This includes charismatics and Pentecostals
|by Anonymous||reply 9||June 6, 2021 2:20 PM|
The vast majority of black churches are evangelical in theology and practice
|by Anonymous||reply 10||June 6, 2021 2:20 PM|
That's just it, R7, how and why are they attracting these young people?
|by Anonymous||reply 11||June 6, 2021 2:31 PM|
Evangelicals also believed the lie that Trump knew his Bible and that he regularly attended church.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||June 6, 2021 2:34 PM|
All your sins & crimes are forgiven as long as your committed to hating gays.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||June 6, 2021 2:37 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 14||June 6, 2021 2:39 PM|
There's always one around. When I was in college, it was ICC.
Culters gotta cult.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||June 6, 2021 2:40 PM|
Gallup: The most interesting finding from our 27 years of tracking this question is the lack of meaningful variation. We have seen year-to-year fluctuations, to be sure, but nothing meaningful or sustained. The 42% of Americans who on average identified as born-again or evangelical in 1991-1995 is little different from the 41% over the past three years.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||June 6, 2021 2:41 PM|
Those young people are lost, R11. They think they have nothing else they believe in and it's eating them up. That organization knows they're search for meaning in their lives and scared and totally taking advantage of them.
It's scary and sad. It's going to turn good people into hateful monsters.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||June 6, 2021 2:41 PM|
Gallup: There have been shifts in other religious indicators over this same period, even as the born-again/evangelical population has remained generally constant. Since the early 1990s, Americans have become significantly more likely to say they have no formal religious identity and somewhat less likely to say religion is very important in their lives. Despite these trends, the born-again/evangelical percentage has stayed constant.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||June 6, 2021 2:42 PM|
Gallup: The born-again/evangelical population in this country is highest among blacks, who are overall the most religious racial and ethnic group in the U.S. Sixty-one percent of blacks in recent years have identified themselves as born-again or evangelical. By contrast, 38% of non-Hispanic whites and 44% of Hispanics say "yes" to this born-again/evangelical measure.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||June 6, 2021 2:42 PM|
I guess I find it shocking that they're making inroads in large urban areas. When I think of Pentecostals/Evangelicals, I think of smaller towns and/or rural areas, not big cities like Toronto and NYC.
What I find sad (and I'm not a church goer at all) is that some churches are quite progressive. Here in Canada, I know some people that attend the Untied Church and they are very gay friendly, take part in social justice issues, open their doors to the homeless etc...and yet their pews aren't overflowing with urban young people. It's frightening and sad that people are turning to evangelical cults.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||June 6, 2021 2:48 PM|
There’s always going to be cults taking advantage of young people’s normal desire to get right with God.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||June 6, 2021 2:51 PM|
Liberal churches are nearly extinct, and especially have a problem attracting or retaining young Christians. Amongst young Christians, Pentecostal and charismatic churches are most popular
|by Anonymous||reply 22||June 6, 2021 2:58 PM|
That's a shame, R22. If someone forced me to go to church, I'd go to a liberal, progressive church that actually does work in its community.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||June 6, 2021 3:00 PM|
R23, but your beliefs are obviously different than most current churchgoers
|by Anonymous||reply 24||June 6, 2021 3:13 PM|
What's their stance on gays? That's that matters on the Dl.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||June 6, 2021 3:15 PM|
I go to this church in NYC. You guys are so very sad. Nothing wrong with following God. Nothing wrong with people who choose to do so. You call this a “cult” and then worship BLM, Alphabet Soup, etc.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||June 6, 2021 3:15 PM|
Probably endorses conversion therapy.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||June 6, 2021 3:16 PM|
OP are you an idiot? Don't believe the hype. This is a tired old evangelical tradition. Those aren't "hipsters". Do you know what a hipster means? The members of this cult are LOW IQ young people who have weak personalities and a fearful mindset. there is nothing new about this. The end.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||June 6, 2021 3:17 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 29||June 6, 2021 3:18 PM|
Liberal churches are based on love and acceptance while these types of churches are ran on fear and hate.
I've been to Pentecostal church, where they speak in tongues and that crazy bullshit. It's no wonder they love Trump and "hear" what they want after listening to his (and the hateful Con) gobbledygook. They're "translating".
|by Anonymous||reply 30||June 6, 2021 3:19 PM|
R28, I didn't call them hipsters, several news sources have.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||June 6, 2021 3:19 PM|
I have never once in my life had any desire to follow any religion or "get right with God"...it's all a bunch of bullshit, just wrapped in different packages. I can kind of understand people who are indoctrinated from childhood not knowing any better, but falling for this crap as an adult is just sad.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||June 6, 2021 3:21 PM|
So why is this "scary shit"? It's just a mega church of bible banger. These kinds of mega churches are "corporations" not churches and nothing new under the sun.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||June 6, 2021 3:22 PM|
[quote] When I came out as a Christian attending C3 on Instagram, I experienced a lot of backlash from friends and strangers alike, many of whom pointed me in the direction of C3 Global’s website where it says outright, “Marriage was instituted by God, ratified by Jesus, and is exclusively between a man and a woman. It is a picture of Christ and his church.” It also states, “Sex is a gift from God for procreation and unity, and it is only appropriate within and designed for marriage.” By this definition, there’s no right way to have a same-sex relationship—if you can’t be married but you also can’t have sex outside of marriage, there is no way to exist within C3 churches unless you repress all your feelings and desires
|by Anonymous||reply 34||June 6, 2021 3:22 PM|
I'm not seeing the "scary" based on the article - at least not "scary" in any unique way. It sounds exactly like most churches and the reasons given for joining and staying sound like why anyone finds religion and goes to church.
"It sounds like a cult." But that's often said on DL about any religion. Again, I'm not seeing the big difference.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||June 6, 2021 3:26 PM|
R6 Whenever anyone trots out "inerrant word of God" it's an indicator of a very narrow pick-and-choose interpretation of scriptures used to defend and assert a certain conservation cultural set of values. Values that are proposed as directly from the mind of God, rather than the need to be prescriptive about certain human behaviors and characteristic. Nothing wrong with believing what you want to believe, but the need to warp interpretations of scripture to partisan purposes is... inflammatory and un-Christian (not Christ-like).
A history of Christian faith, from the desert fathers to medieval monks to Quakers in the 17th century to mainstream denominations today to the Christians that date from prior to the Council of Nicea in Ethiopia or the western coast of India... Christianity isn't one "inerrant" set of beliefs... "by their fruits ye shall know them"... so if anyone says "inerrant word of God", be aware it's now Christianity writ large, it's a certain kind of Christianity.
This hipster version of these pietist conservative beliefs is ephemeral. Though evangelical churches did grow as the mainstream churches lost members in the last 80 years - new research show evangelicals' growth has slowed, and they are losing the younger generations. The "mission fields" continue to grow quickly - evangelicals in Latin America and Africa, and sometimes wind up with groups believing in "the inerrant word of God" who assert things like gay humans should be executed (Uganda).
|by Anonymous||reply 36||June 6, 2021 3:29 PM|
So you reject the majority of historic Protestantism
|by Anonymous||reply 37||June 6, 2021 3:31 PM|
Gladly and happily.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||June 6, 2021 3:32 PM|
The inerrant word of God - if your son talks smack to you, you are to take him to the edge of town and stone him to death. It's scriptural. But of course these "Biblical" Christians never pick and choose what they want to believe.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||June 6, 2021 3:34 PM|
So I assume everyone's fucking everyone while shrieking about the end times and dat ole debbil. Sounds like your standard issue clown christianity.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||June 6, 2021 3:35 PM|
[quote] I guess I find it shocking that they're making inroads in large urban areas. When I think of Pentecostals/Evangelicals, I think of smaller towns and/or rural areas, not big cities like Toronto and NYC.
It would be expected that large urban areas would have the greatest unfulfilled spiritual needs.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||June 6, 2021 3:36 PM|
Like I said earlier, R37, I'm not religious, but I suppose if I were to start going to church, I'd pick a liberal one that welcomes gays and that helps in its community. My aunt goes to one and her church opens its doors to the homeless in the heat and the cold, volunteers with refugees and other less fortunate people without proselytizing, welcomes gays and performs same sex marriages, open to gay clergy and so on.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||June 6, 2021 3:38 PM|
Many Evangelical, charismatic, and Pentecostal churches and organizations have robust programs for the poor, homeless, orphaned, and hungry. In Most places, soup kitchens are run or supported by evangelicals. Many such organizations have large volunteer programs and activities that assist the poor, prisoners, people in crisis. It’s certainly that way here in the DC area.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||June 6, 2021 3:56 PM|
So the typical, all are welcome to conform to my very narrow and idiotic bible-based bullshit, based entirely on my picking and choosing which Bible verses count and which ones don't. But we have a Christian Rock Band!
|by Anonymous||reply 44||June 6, 2021 3:57 PM|
Anyone who would be sucked into this church is indeed a stupid person with no taste or common sense. Which is most people. Hipsters, they are not. Sounds like it attracts damaged people who once partied too hard and don’t have the faculties to move beyond that without using the crutch of this nonsense.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||June 6, 2021 4:02 PM|
He's the hip new pastor who can talk to the kids. Well, the stupid kids.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||June 6, 2021 4:04 PM|
Bieber at Churchome
|by Anonymous||reply 47||June 6, 2021 4:09 PM|
R26 has his church on Google alerts. How quaint. Go away, hater. Jesus didn’t preach hate.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||June 6, 2021 4:14 PM|
You're not really a Christian are you r26? You're more a Republican who has turned your ideology into a religion.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||June 6, 2021 4:16 PM|
I would suspect, in North American culture anyways, that without significant cultural pressure to be religious, about twenty percent of people will gravitate towards evangelical Christianity as it seems to scratch an itch for certain type of person - mostly because it marries a very social rule-based “self-improvement” culture with a message that frankly makes a lot of basic people feel special. I’m a Canadian, and every evangelical I’ve ever met is a lower-middle striver (frequently from an immigrant background) or someone with a history of personal trauma.
A much smaller percentage of the population with gravitate towards the bells and smells wonkishness of Catholicism and an even smaller still percent of is drawn to the bluestocking do-gooder NPR lady vibe of the mainline churches.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||June 6, 2021 4:18 PM|
Ugh, it's another HIllsong type cult.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||June 6, 2021 4:27 PM|
The Gospel, example, and Presence of Jesus Christ is so much larger than the narrow cultural reactionaries who claim him for their own political and anthropological games. So, just listen to them, love them, forgive them....
The "hipster" churches, just like the SUV Mega-churches of prosperity gospel or the snake-handling fire and brimstone churches of accusatory theologies are simply costuming on the same reactionary tribes. Forgive them, for they know not what they do...
|by Anonymous||reply 52||June 6, 2021 4:28 PM|
There are great megachurches, and there are bad ones.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||June 6, 2021 4:29 PM|
Osho has left the ashram.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||June 6, 2021 4:40 PM|
Well even the "great" ones preach nonsense r53, and actually r52. If there ever was a Jesus, his message has been so obscured and twisted and revised and edited that it is impossible to know what any original message was. That is why everyone who joins whatever church, whatever charismatic preacher, is essentially buying into some kind of falsehood, some emphasis that comes from the preacher or the church collectively. There is no "message" of Jesus. There are various messages that have been substituted because no complete, coherent message actually exists. Usually the message is sexual purity is way up on top and everything else is very much secondary, which seems very unJesus in the canonical gospels, but you can get there if you try hard enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||June 6, 2021 4:40 PM|
There is only one result of a gay person attending a christian church…self-loathing.. Christian bible looks down on homosexuality no matter how you twist it …it’s not healthy for gay people to hear that stuff every week no matter how they dress it up.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||June 6, 2021 4:49 PM|
R55, you and I have radically different beliefs. Thank God for Freedom of Religion and Conscience.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||June 6, 2021 4:54 PM|
We probably do r57, and yes, I have no desire to remove your freedom of religion and conscience.
I am curious if you believe that the gospels called Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John are inerrant and faithfully record the teachings and words of Jesus?
|by Anonymous||reply 58||June 6, 2021 4:56 PM|
Funny thing is …no one is trying to change Freedom of Religion, but they are busy trying to make us change for them.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||June 6, 2021 5:02 PM|
It’s kind of like the made up war on Christmas, R59. I’ve yet to see or hear one person actually *fighting* against Christmas, yet every Christmas I get Bubba memes on Facebook telling me the war is real.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||June 6, 2021 5:05 PM|
Christianity attracts those who need to feel forgiven…….i don’t need to be forgiven for living the truth as a gay man
|by Anonymous||reply 61||June 6, 2021 5:11 PM|
As all the arguments and differences of opinions on this thread attest to, as far as humanity sharing the planet peacefully goes - Religion Ruins Everything
|by Anonymous||reply 62||June 6, 2021 5:18 PM|
It’s true, R62, religion is a scourge. Anything that teaches you you’re better than someone else of another race, culture, religion, etc., is a scourge.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||June 6, 2021 5:21 PM|
[quote] They're evangelical homophobes and don't believe in sex before marriage.
Well, that doesn't seem like a recipe for success, TBH. Abstinence before marriage is so 1950s.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||June 6, 2021 5:39 PM|
Christianity doesn’t teach that. Jesus teaches all people are innately not good, all humans are innately bankrupt and in need of God’s grace. The utter depravity of all people in their original state is core to Christianity
|by Anonymous||reply 65||June 6, 2021 5:40 PM|
What a horrible belief…..you are born fucked up
|by Anonymous||reply 66||June 6, 2021 5:44 PM|
So I need to bow before Jerry Falwell Jr. for moral guidance……please.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||June 6, 2021 5:46 PM|
R66, it’s evident throughout all humanity
|by Anonymous||reply 68||June 6, 2021 5:49 PM|
[quote]Christian bible looks down on homosexuality
You've accepted a warped understanding of the Biblical messages. Don't accept this without some scholarly study.
R65 No, that's a limited interpretation. There are other ways to understand scripture and "original sin" that are closer aligned to authentic human experience. Creation theology, for one.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||June 6, 2021 5:59 PM|
R26 bless your heart
|by Anonymous||reply 70||June 6, 2021 6:02 PM|
Haven't a lot of churches done this the past 20 years? Having 'concert-like' sermons with more current music.
Some long-haired 'pastor' in torn jeans and a bedazzled t-shirt strumming an acoustic guitar?
Most hipsters are more liberal, right? Why would this attract these types?
|by Anonymous||reply 71||June 6, 2021 6:03 PM|
A huge percentage of churches today have contemporary praise and worship music, often with praise bands or praise teams
|by Anonymous||reply 72||June 6, 2021 6:04 PM|
R71 Right... or in CA, pastors in Hawaiian shirts and DRUMS in the band on stage. Grandma would never approve.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||June 6, 2021 6:11 PM|
R71 [quote]We're all searching for something to fill up what I like to call that big, God-shaped hole in our souls. Some people use alcohol, or sex, or their children, or food, or money, or music, or heroin. A lot of people even use the concept of God itself. I could go on and on. - Tiffanie DeBartolo
Blaise Pascal said it first, but Tiffanie's take is more modern.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||June 6, 2021 6:21 PM|
Paul say something in one of his letters…..homosexuals and the disgusting things they do.
How have I misinterpreted that?
|by Anonymous||reply 75||June 6, 2021 6:26 PM|
R75 Yes, you've misunderstood (and accepted the cultural-homophobic interpreters of Paul), The word he uses is "malakos" which was a prostitute in pagan temples of the era. It's likely that Paul wouldn't like same sex relationships, but then he also said, very clearly, that women should cover their heads, so submit to men, and should never ever speak in church. Etc.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||June 6, 2021 6:35 PM|
R71, by the mid 2010s, “hipster” basically became the default taste setting for millennials. A love of facial hair, statement glasses, esoteric “craft cocktails” and skinny jeans don’t signify really anything other than you were probably born between 1981-1996.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||June 6, 2021 6:35 PM|
R77 Which is why Gen Z hates millennials.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||June 6, 2021 6:37 PM|
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NKJV
 … Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,  nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. …
pretty hard to misinterpret that little ditty……Don’t try to dress that up to say something different….it’s clear it sucks…..
|by Anonymous||reply 79||June 6, 2021 6:41 PM|
The Good Reverend Mann Culter spreading love 💕 & healing.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||June 6, 2021 6:43 PM|
There seems to be a lot of Gen Z who are already neo-Puritanical yet secular. Seems like Gen Z is becoming more religious.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||June 6, 2021 6:48 PM|
I know a lot of people much smarter than I am believe in the claims made by Christianity, but it just seems completely ludicrous. And even the idea that if it’s not the quite literal truth, the collective musings of assorted men from the Bronze Age through to the first Century are still the best and most accurate thought we’ll ever have about the nature of the “divine” and what constitutes spiritual flourishing seems barely any less ludicrous to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||June 6, 2021 6:50 PM|
R79 Do you read Greek? Are you an expert at Biblical exegesis...? See link... smart biblical scholars disagree with you. There's a lot to unpack in St Paul.
And accepting Paul at face value, you think this has contemporary meaning and "Christians" should follow it: Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says 1 Corinthians 14:34
|by Anonymous||reply 83||June 6, 2021 6:50 PM|
R79, you appear to be quoting somebody's translation of Paul's original. The word "homosexual" wasn't invented until the later 19th century; it carries with it certain modern concepts and connotations that you should beware of attributing to an ancient writer. As R76 said, the Greek word Paul uses is malakoi, which is a basic term to stigmatize a man as less than manly (in sexual behavior among all sorts of behaviors)—the King James translation renders it "effeminate" here.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||June 6, 2021 6:51 PM|
R82 I understand your perspective. But what is consciousness? How does our consciousness fit into a Universe we only partially understand? How do the Big Bang, the increased rate of entropy, the energy we exhibit and interchange, the sub-atomic particles in our bodies that track from the Big Bang, quantuum mechanics' discoveries, the unseen 80% of the observable Universe that is Dark Energy, the gravity in Black Holes that stops time itself... how do we understand any of that?
Bronze Age expressions of an internal experience of consciousness and awareness, the mental event of "Ego", caused sacred stories and scriptures that are so similar - the Vedas, the Tao, the Buddha, the Abrahamic religions.
Culture and its languages (or I'd even say language and its cultures) do the best they can to reflect a "reality" that is more than what we "see"....
|by Anonymous||reply 85||June 6, 2021 6:59 PM|
It’s the NEW King James version..Don’t try to gaslight me.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||June 6, 2021 7:00 PM|
R86 Which uses modern language, not used in 1606, nor the Latin Vulgate, nor the original texts in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic. He didn't gaslight you, he was trying to inform you.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||June 6, 2021 7:02 PM|
R85 what if I told you that science misapprehends everything? Sounds crazy, but science assumes a perceived ‘natural physicality’ that we all experience and interpret the same way. This in itself is rather naive and faulty.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||June 6, 2021 7:13 PM|
I am looking at the Greek to English cross reference New revised Standard..same thing HOMOSEXUALS you are gaslighting
|by Anonymous||reply 89||June 6, 2021 7:13 PM|
Jesus’ message was quite simple: be humble; live a simple life with gratitude; don’t get ensnared by the greed, carnality, and materialism of this world; don’t be judgmental; accept, treat, love, forgive, and assist ALL people as if they were your siblings and yourself; and “the kingdom of God is within.”
The rest comes from either the Old Testament or his apostles creeds and claims, neither of which I subscribe or pay much attention to because when following the above, neither is needed.
I have to work really hard not to grow righteously angry at the ego-driven proclamations made by myriad churches claiming to follow Jesus when they rarely mention or act in accordance with his core teachings. I mean, Christ never even mentioned sex and yet most churches make it fundamental to what they espouse and promulgate. It’s ridiculous.
No thank you.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||June 6, 2021 7:16 PM|
I really want to feel bad for the author of r34's article but I just can't. These churches are an easy read. If it's an evangelical church proclaiming things like "everybody is welcome!" "Our doors are open to all!" then you better do some research. There's a new "church plant" evangelical church in my town as of two weeks ago. They say the same thing: "You are welcome here!". I did a little digging, looking up the org funding their church. Gays are considered the same as at C3. Can't hold leadership positions, celibacy is recommended otherwise we're "falling" in the eyes of god. Classic bait-and-switch.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||June 6, 2021 7:19 PM|
Those guys don’t want save anybody from anything…they just want to deceive and divide us.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||June 6, 2021 7:19 PM|
R90 Exactly, Jesus (whatever anyone believes about an historical Jesus, or the traditions that follow) gave a pretty clear description of what happens when you follow "him" - the Beatitudes. Very, very few of modern Christian churches have people who exhibit those blessings.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||June 6, 2021 7:21 PM|
R90, not quite. Jesus certainly taught that the Old Testament was the authoritative Word of God, and that people needed to repent of their sins and believe in Him as God and Savior to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and avoid eternal punishment. Jesus upheld the moral teachings of the Old Testament.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||June 6, 2021 7:21 PM|
Well there you go….that Sodom thing stands out in my mind.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||June 6, 2021 7:25 PM|
R94 Actually, with all love and kindness, I suggest you are very, very wrong. Jesus constantly criticized for not observing the "Law"... here are his reported words: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS."
|by Anonymous||reply 96||June 6, 2021 7:25 PM|
Jesus taught a moral code that is even stricter than the OT. For example, He said Lusting over another is the same as adultery. Moreover, hating a person is the same as murder.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||June 6, 2021 7:26 PM|
I'm not a fan of John Lennon, but I always liked this quote of his -
[quote] Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||June 6, 2021 7:28 PM|
R97 Not stricter, but more applicable to consciousness, intent, and human connections. A moral renewal, not a behavior. "Love" is the standard and goal, not obeying "the Law"
|by Anonymous||reply 99||June 6, 2021 7:29 PM|
So true…if lusting is wrong…I don’t want to be right
|by Anonymous||reply 100||June 6, 2021 7:29 PM|
The biggest factor y’all are overlooking is churches like this are grifters, finding new ways to draw in suckers so the founders can build tacky McMansions and buy exotic cars.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||June 6, 2021 7:30 PM|
You got that right
|by Anonymous||reply 102||June 6, 2021 7:33 PM|
[quote] when you follow "him" - the Beatitudes. Very, very few of modern Christian churches have people who exhibit those blessings.
Hell, R93, they rarely ever focus on the Beatitudes.
R94 Jesus on the Creators omniscience:
[quote]But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. - Mark 13:32
Though he certainly spoke of himself and Creator being “one,” Christ was very in pointing out the differences between himself and the Creator. Also, he preached that the “kingdom of God is within,” making it clear that we are ALL one with the creator.
R97 He still never mentioned sexuality or homosexuality, for that matter. He did mention eunuchs, which I always found heartwarming and quite beautiful:
[quote]For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it. - Matthew 19:12
Depending on how you define “eunuchs,” what he said was rather revolutionary.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||June 6, 2021 7:34 PM|
*Christ was very clear in pointing out
|by Anonymous||reply 104||June 6, 2021 7:35 PM|
I love how everyone acts like they know what Jesus said or meant, when the whole thing is a fabrication from other pagan myths of a solar deity. Christians are Sun worshipers.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||June 6, 2021 7:36 PM|
Hear , Hear
|by Anonymous||reply 106||June 6, 2021 7:36 PM|
R98 He was onto something.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||June 6, 2021 7:37 PM|
Yea….and murdered by some christian wack job
|by Anonymous||reply 108||June 6, 2021 7:38 PM|
R105 Whether you view his life as myth or based in historical fact, his teachings have lived on and are still as relevant today as ever. Both myth and history should be used to inform and advance us.
My faith in and following of Christ is not tempered by whether he existed or his life can be “proven.” The fact of the matter is, an equally valid argument can be made for both viewpoints. I’d much rather worry about following his teachings and the path he outlined for all to follow, which also, interestingly enough, lines up perfectly with the teachings of the Buddha, Muhammad, and the core texts of Hinduism.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||June 6, 2021 7:42 PM|
Jesus: "Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the. prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill."—Matthew 5:17
|by Anonymous||reply 110||June 6, 2021 7:46 PM|
R109 Well, exactly. As though "myth" someone voided any power or wisdom. Human wisdom was most often conveyed in "myth".... it's like a computer code writer saying about poetry, "well, that doesn't help the program run."
Apples and glorious oranges....
|by Anonymous||reply 111||June 6, 2021 7:46 PM|
Some more food for thought: Those who claim to follow Christ and are most preoccupied with proving his existence and their idolization of him are usually people who act in a fashion diametrically opposed to his teachings: they are prideful and boisterous, greedy, carnal, boastful, and materialistic; they are critical and judgmental; they hardly accept, treat, love, forgive, or assist ALL people as their siblings or themselves; and believe the kingdom of God is anything but “within.”
Then again, even Christ foresaw and predicted that these types of individuals would rise up and hijack his teachings, and he had a few words for them, too:
[quote] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ - Matthew 7:21
From the very beginning of his ministry, Christ was like, “Don’t get it twisted, honey.”
|by Anonymous||reply 112||June 6, 2021 7:58 PM|
yes……you said it perfect.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||June 6, 2021 8:06 PM|
R112 Yes, good description. Except "those who claim to follow Christ..." is essentialist and too facile. "Many of the most visible examples and spokesperson of currently popular Christian churches and denominations..."
There is a lot Christians in the modern contemplative practices that are "doing the will of the Father." The "pure in heart shall see God" and such purity is possible, thought not attained by attachments to the established Church.
A commonplace/meme today is that Jesus would not be welcomed in today's "Christian" churches.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||June 6, 2021 8:12 PM|
greedy, carnal, boastful, and materialistic; they are critical and judgmental; they hardly accept, treat, love, forgive
gee…that could describe any tele-evangelist
|by Anonymous||reply 115||June 6, 2021 8:12 PM|
The prosperity gospel…….give me your money and God will give you the money back….that’s a hot one!
|by Anonymous||reply 116||June 6, 2021 8:18 PM|
R89, unless you're just trolling us, you're showing a remarkable naivete. The English versions you're reading are translations of a Greek original, and use language that interprets the original in a modern way. Other translations render "malakoi" as "male prostitutes," "effeminate," and other versions. Do you really think it's "gaslighting" to insist on going back to the original in interpreting a biblical text?
|by Anonymous||reply 117||June 6, 2021 8:23 PM|
Do they have hot guys who fuck each other? Otherwise not interested.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||June 6, 2021 8:24 PM|
So let me get this straight….you’re saying two of the most widely used bible translation is wrong……but you’re right..
And the Greek to English is wrong also….. and who are you ?
|by Anonymous||reply 119||June 6, 2021 8:45 PM|
No I’m not trolling …just trying to expose your deceptions.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||June 6, 2021 8:47 PM|
R119 The King James Version, as lovely as it is, is "wrong" in thousands of places. This is commonly acknowledged.
Don't be like the (perhaps apocryphal story) of Ma Ferguson, the Governor of Texas in the 30s, who said "speak English... if English was good enough for Jesus it's good enough for us!!"
|by Anonymous||reply 121||June 6, 2021 8:49 PM|
ok ok ….you win ….i give up……you would try to twist it in anyway to have it say whatever you want.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||June 6, 2021 8:51 PM|
R119, you have to be a troll if you don't understand the basic difference between the original and the translation. To put it bluntly, "malakoi" does not mean the same thing as "homosexual." There's some overlap in the senses, but only some.
As for who I am, I'm someone who knows both English and ancient Greek and can translate between the two.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||June 6, 2021 9:08 PM|
Let's all fight over which version of a fictional story is "correct".
|by Anonymous||reply 124||June 6, 2021 9:09 PM|
r124 Sometimes "fiction" holds the deeper truths. Discussing how a "fiction" was told, with what language, by whom, and how those differences affect intent and meaning... is the point of scholarship. It's not a fight.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||June 6, 2021 9:15 PM|
R124, so you’re not a believer. Billions are.
|by Anonymous||reply 126||June 6, 2021 9:24 PM|
R125 I stand corrected, no one fights over interpretations of the Bible.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||June 6, 2021 9:36 PM|
R126 I was going to just link you to the wiki for Argumentum ad populum, but I've decided not.
Yes, billions are believers.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||June 6, 2021 9:37 PM|
Yeah, R124, we're not arguing over the "truth" of the text, we're arguing over its modern interpretation and who gets to decide that truth and impose it on others.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||June 6, 2021 9:57 PM|
No , too many people try to push ‘truth’ they have no way of proving They can’t even admit that they …just might have it wrong…..it’s called SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS
|by Anonymous||reply 130||June 6, 2021 9:58 PM|
So historico-anthropologists talking about the various epochs of the Maya and the peoples that preceded them.... and disagreeing about the evidence of how different eras succeeded each other... is all about self-righteousness?
|by Anonymous||reply 131||June 6, 2021 10:02 PM|
I have this gay hating cult down the street from me.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||June 6, 2021 10:02 PM|
R131 Trying to pitch the religious beliefs of the Maya as being accurate would be laughable today, but they had exactly as much insight into the existence and nature of supreme beings as any Christian does.
That's "none", in case there was any doubt.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||June 6, 2021 10:06 PM|
R91, I don't feel sorry for her either, but I am glad she got out and is being open and upfront about her experiences at C3.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||June 6, 2021 10:08 PM|
Scientists hypothesize….Christians evangelize
|by Anonymous||reply 135||June 6, 2021 10:12 PM|
R135 Yes, scientists are open to the possibility of being wrong. The religious aren't, except for those like the Mormons who have had spontaneous "revelations" to avoid problems with polygamy and racism.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||June 6, 2021 10:16 PM|
R135 I'm suggesting that it's our response to the evangelization as opposed to our response to scientific hypothesising ... is part of the problem. Another topic for another day.
I've enjoyed this thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||June 6, 2021 10:18 PM|
There’s an American-style megachurch in my rural British county that’s been steadily growing in congregation size and influence for the last 10-15 years. I scoff Paganly and spit in its general direction every time I have to walk past it down the road. More and more I see Evangelicals preaching on street corners, as well. I think it’s madness, and so do the majority of the other local yokels at the moment (thankfully).
If these insidious stone-monolithic institutions can take hold in small towns full of drunken heathens in a little island nation of the irreligious, what chance do Americans have?
|by Anonymous||reply 138||June 6, 2021 10:33 PM|
Loved the sign in front of a church I saw that read “Don’t make me come down there…”)
|by Anonymous||reply 139||June 6, 2021 10:38 PM|
Jesus' "teachings" have been up for grabs since Paul first decided to chat with the risen Christ. Go forth and do likewise.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||June 6, 2021 10:58 PM|
R124 Let’s bomb each other over fictional rights and claims to land instead.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||June 6, 2021 10:59 PM|
I don't care what the bible says, I care how religious bigots interpret it.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||June 6, 2021 11:32 PM|
R26 is a professed conservative Christian who calls Dataloungers idolators, but she gets more upvotes than any other post in this thread.
What's going on here, girls?
|by Anonymous||reply 143||June 7, 2021 3:26 AM|
R143 there are plenty of conservative book-thumping whackjobs under every rock.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||June 7, 2021 4:29 AM|
C3...grifters, grifters, grifters one and all.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||June 7, 2021 4:42 AM|
R143, could the "upvotes" include F&Fs?
|by Anonymous||reply 146||June 7, 2021 10:52 AM|
Seems like Millennials are turning into “Jesus People” like the hippy boomers in the early 70s.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||June 7, 2021 11:05 AM|
I’m here for that! 👍🏽
|by Anonymous||reply 148||June 7, 2021 1:01 PM|
On an average weekend in the early 1970s, there were: 20M Mainline Protestants 30M Catholics 17M Evangelicals in the pews.
By 2020 it was: 11M Mainline 17M Catholics 37M Evangelicals.
There are more evangelicals at church on Sunday than Catholics and Mainline combined now.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||June 23, 2022 1:39 AM|
Religions and cults prey on weak people. They're all the same that way.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||June 23, 2022 1:43 AM|
Why is it weird? Would it be more socially acceptable for them to go to a Buddhist temple? A Mosque? A synagogue? Or any of the thousands of different spiritual houses of worship? Some people seek spirituality in phsical houses of worship, some just in nature, or wherever. Some have no desire to seek spirituality. Different strokes for different folks.
That was one of the reasons so many people came to America. Freedom of Worship, including Freedom to not worship.
You don't like it don't go.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||June 23, 2022 1:57 AM|
These churches are in a perfect position to attract millennials and Gen Zs.
Everyone one of them grew up behind a computer screen, an iPad or an iPhone.
People need human interaction and human connection. That’s more powerful than even their idea of Jesus.
People go because they’re lonely. Plain and simple
|by Anonymous||reply 152||June 23, 2022 2:03 AM|
Humans survived in tribes. Lone humans were easy pickens. That is part of the reason many people like to live in cities. It's also why communes & even cults have appeal. That feeling of not being isolated, not being alone. It is also why people seek spirituality, that they are not alone in the universe. And to pray/worship with others is a vey powerful experience for many. Its why hymns & anthems are so powerful.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||June 23, 2022 2:08 AM|
It's weird because it's 2022, R151. Don't act naive. Most young urban people aren't interested in organized religion. Most educated people mistrust churches. Both of these facts are for good reason. Conservative and Evangelical Christianity is hostile to women, LGBTQ people, science, and often to immigrants and people of color.
Your post sounds like something from 1932. Talk about weird...
|by Anonymous||reply 154||June 23, 2022 2:36 AM|
[quote]People go because they're lonely.
And churches/cults prey on lonely people.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||June 23, 2022 2:38 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 156||June 23, 2022 2:39 AM|
Silly kids. Some will outgrow it, others will remain crazy and replenish the zombie population of the land.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||June 23, 2022 2:58 AM|
Ryan Burge: Chapter 1 of 20 Myths is devoted to debunking the myth that evangelicalism is dying.
More Americans say they've had a born-again experience than ever.
The % who self-ID as evangelical is unchanged since 2008.
Total number of evangelicals is higher than ever.R
|by Anonymous||reply 158||June 23, 2022 3:05 AM|
A misconception that folks have about religion: the pews are filled with people who don't have high levels of education.
In every dataset that I look at:
Those with a HS diploma or less are more likely to report never/seldom attending church than those w/a college degree.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||June 23, 2022 3:09 AM|