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Once poor, always poor?

For those of you who grew up poor/lower middle class, do you find that it sticks with you throughout life no matter how much money you have?

I had a well paying career and saved money my whole life (another side effect of growing up with not much). Even though I supposedly have enough saved and invested to be comfortable in retirement, per my financial advisor, I still don't really believe it internally. I also still do things like choosing lower priced entrees when eating out, bypassing getting $4 treats like coffee/tea/ice cream, being sure to comparison shop at the grocery store and getting the store brand, etc.

I don't think of myself as cheap and I don't think it is a bad thing to still watch what I spend money on (I think having that attitude is what helped me save money my whole life to get to this point), but I do think I cause myself more stress about little financial decisions than I really need to and it is all based on still being 10 years old and watching my parents struggle with money their entire lives.

by Anonymousreply 18918 hours ago

[quote] I also still do things like choosing lower priced entrees when eating out, bypassing getting $4 treats like coffee/tea/ice cream, being sure to comparison shop at the grocery store and getting the store brand, etc.

None of those are negatives OP

by Anonymousreply 106/04/2021

You are just being smart OP. Keep it up.

by Anonymousreply 206/04/2021

Hi OP. I'm pretty comfortable now for sure. I could technically go grocery shopping and not have to look at prices. But I still do. I'm selective about what I will splurge on. I still shop at ALDI.

My spouse had to teach me over time to stop buying the cheapest things or the As Is Room at IKEA when buying furniture and the like, because it would frequently break and then I'd have to replace it. For some things, you have to have the wisdom to spend reasonable money to buy something that will last.

But yes, I still have empty butter containers in my pantry for food storage. Some things don't change.

by Anonymousreply 306/04/2021

Were you given bonds and stocks every year? The middle class justifies its inherited wealth by being miserly about the tiny stuff; they believe they’re smart, good with money, that they preserve capital.

Meritocratic folks have seen people claw without effect. Their miserliness about the tiny things comes from insecurity.

So, pretend you’ve always lived in the castle and that being a cheap cunt is the smart, virtuous, and proper thing to do.

Stop whining and pick up a young, dumb, full of cum whore. Hide all your pocket watches.

by Anonymousreply 406/04/2021

Nah - for the examples you mentioned by R1, those shouldn't be causing you much stress. That's just being good with your money.

Most of consumer society is designed for you to spend just a little more here and there - and it adds up quickly.

I'm always amazed at the huge drive-thru line at Starbucks each morning. These people are not going in and having a coffee-house experience, they're just buying their morning coffee at around $5 a pop. That's $1250 after tax a year.

If the average person makes $60K a year - that's spending almost 3% of your take home pay ($45k) after taxes on your morning coffee.

Yes - that's stupid as fuck. I don't have the same feeling about it if you spend time inside and you're working on your laptop or reading a book - that's a cafe experience.

by Anonymousreply 506/04/2021

I don't think I never anyone who started life poor and ended up very rich. Middle-class comfortable, yes, but not rich.

by Anonymousreply 606/04/2021

My parents were each raised by single mothers on budgets. Much later in life, as senior citizens, a good deal of money came their way.

My mom could afford to buy an expensive new car every year, making no real difference to her finances. These days, she's considering trading in her ten-year-old Subaru in the autumn, maybe. She's stunned by these young'uns plunking down $15 or so for coffee and pastry after tax and tip at coffee shops.

by Anonymousreply 706/04/2021

R5 My spouse has an espresso machine and it seemed ridiculous when he bought it for $1200, but he's had it over a decade. Even with the cost of coffee, he's saved a huge amount from Starbucks and the like.

Sometimes money wisdom is not "don't spend ANY money EVER" but rather "spend wisely and get a good bang for your buck."

by Anonymousreply 806/04/2021

No, R4, I was definitely never given a single share of stock. I grew up on a farm and was the first person on both sides of my family to graduate from college and I attended college on full academic scholarships. My mom raised me to work hard in school and with the understanding I was going to go to college which was something she would have loved to do but didn't get the chance.

My parents were generous with what little money they had. We always had birthday and Christmas presents, etc. It's just that we never took vacations, went out to eat at more than fast food places, etc. My dad designated a cow that was mine (Pamela) and I was able to save money by getting the proceeds from the sale of her yearly calf.

by Anonymousreply 906/04/2021

OP, you can't be as dump and unselfaware as you type. The reason you worked a long career and were able to save money is because you're a solid person and also not a spendthrift. What's the problem? Enjoy your comfortable retirement.

by Anonymousreply 1006/04/2021

In a different vein, it's easy to fall into additional spending if you're earning good money and work a lot of hours. I call it 'compensatory spending' - between 2.5 hours commute each day and 9-11 hours of work, I would justify getting my laundry done or not cooking. Sometimes it's worth it to spend the money to claim some free time back - but it's an easy trap to get into.

by Anonymousreply 1106/04/2021

OP you are being smart. If more people thought like you there would be less people drowning in debt and merchants would think twice before trying to price gouge because they would know people are comparison shopping.

I'm the EXACT same way. Friends sometimes laugh at me but I don't care. I'd rather always have more money and have less things than to have less money and NEED more things.

by Anonymousreply 1206/04/2021

[quote]I had a well paying career and saved money my whole life (another side effect of growing up with not much). Even though I supposedly have enough [bold]saved and invested to be comfortable in retirement, per my financial advisor, I still don't really believe it internally[/bold].

If you want bad news, ask your financial adviser if you have enough money. But he says that you do, indeed, believe the man.

[quote]I also still do things like choosing lower priced entrees when eating out, bypassing getting $4 treats like coffee/tea/ice cream, being sure to comparison shop at the grocery store and getting the store brand, etc.

I have more than a few friends who have 8-figure wealth who do the same. Within reason it's fine: when you have a simple choice of two things that will bring you equal pleasure, why not take the cheaper? It's a certain peace of mind, or pleasure even, for some not to have overspent or to have chosen a small economy. But if you don't need to watch these things, don't invest too much effort into saving a few dollars here or there when it's inconsequential. Be easy on yourself and don't take these little decisions too seriously or delight too much in them: it makes a person look a bit mean-spirited and doesn't make a dent in the amount of money you're worth when you die.

by Anonymousreply 1306/04/2021

OP I just love that you had a cow named Pamela. That just made my day.

by Anonymousreply 1406/04/2021

OP, you little affirmation-seeking slut, you are doing fine. Just be sure to treat yourself every now and then (a concert, dinner, beautiful sweater, etc.) — and be sure to pick the GOOD hotel when travelling.

You have more past than future, better make those years count. You can’t take your money with you.

by Anonymousreply 1506/04/2021

Can you still buy coffee for 50¢ anymore?

When I lived in the city the deli across the street had a self serve coffee pot. You poured, used the milk or cream, grabbed a packet of sweetener and a stirrer and were out the door after throwing 2 quarters on the checkout counter.

Then I’d walk past Starbucks and see all the millennials waiting in line with sourpusses, looking very put-out by the whole experience. The place was jammed. For hot liquid made from burnt coffee beans.

by Anonymousreply 1606/04/2021

You have to LIVE. Can't take it with you.

You can be sensible and still have a treat once in a while. $5 is not a mortal sin worthy of pearl clutching, and refusing such a treat does not bestow virtue upon the sufferer. But a wise person will know to be sensible about those kinds of extravagances.

by Anonymousreply 1706/04/2021

I think there's a difference in having grown up poor or in conditions where you don't have a lot as a child and, as an adult, ending up being a fiscally conservative adult versus growing up poor and not having a lot as a child and, as an adult, over-spending to impress others and constantly spoiling yourself with no financial boundaries.

The former may always worry about ending up poor again but barring something catastrophic, probably won't. The latter grew up poor, has no interest in developing financial skills and will end up poor again, impressing no one with anything other than their self destructive behavior.

by Anonymousreply 1806/04/2021

Do you feel as if you're missing out by not spending more money? If not, there really isn't an issue. My family situation was the opposite of yours, my parents were well off and they never struggled. Throughout my late teens and 20s I was something of a spendthrift, and constantly getting myself into financial mishaps due to over-spending and meeting financial obligations/bills. Somewhere down the line, I made a conscious decision to eradicate unnecessary spending, simply because it wasn't giving me any kind of real benefit. There is a point where accruing items and simply spending money as a form of entertainment becomes meaningless and wasteful.

by Anonymousreply 1906/04/2021

R17 - the problem is - it's not a treat for many people. We all know them - I HAVE TO HAVE MY STARBUCKS IN THE MORNING! Making a huge deal out of it, using their app, and all that bullshit.

And there are some people who only buy name-brand stuff, no matter what. Doesn't matter that the CVS/Walgreens brand of AA batteries are made by Duracell and are the same fucking battery.

by Anonymousreply 2006/04/2021

There's nothing wrong with not throwing money down the drain OP, you should be proud of your spending habits. If you spent 10-20 bucks a day on incidentals like Starbucks or eating lunch out or whatever that comes to 4-7k a year which isn't chump change unless you're actually wealthy. People really don't think about that $5 here and there as adding up.

by Anonymousreply 2106/04/2021

The amount of generational wealth transfer in America is staggering. taxes are also set up so that it hits people who work by up to 40% but inheritance taxes touch less than 10% of that amount.

by Anonymousreply 2206/04/2021

This thread reminds me a bit of the thread(s) we had a few years back, when we frequently had anti fast food threads, especially against McDonalds.

There was one pitiful soul who was so sad and insulted that someone was criticizing McDonald's. Apparently, they only alloted themselves $2 for a hamburger and fries. They kept responding, "But it's my special TREAT!"

I mean, I think they wanted a ticker tape parade for being so frugal.

by Anonymousreply 2306/04/2021

I'm sure the OP is "treating himself" every now and then as he has done all his life.

You are doing the right thing. The best advice I got from an older person gave me was to "save a nest egg because life is unpredictable." I have always abided by that because I never wanna have to rely on others who may not be there for me.

As people age they often get sicker and tire more easily. Thinking "I can always get a job to supplement" may not be an option. You may even need to pay someone to care for you.

These people telling you to spend spend spend will be the same ones laughing at you if you run out of money saying: "why didn't he save more?" "A fool and his money are soon departed!" "There is no fool like an old fool."

Everybody is willing to spend on the young twink but the old queen is most likely on her own!

Be smart!

by Anonymousreply 2406/04/2021

My mother grew up very poor and my dad grew up pretty wealthy, but they were both pennypinchers, always buying store brands and not letting anyone have any treats, keeping the heat down so low it would be 55 degrees in the house in the mornings in the winter. I'd ask for nuts or cheeses or something for snacks, and I'd be told it's too expensive, have the generic brand saltines with some margarine on them after school. We'd get fruit in the summer once, when it was cheap because it was in season, then never again.

The thing is, now that I'm an adult, I'm pretty sure their refusal to buy brand name food or healthier food for me didn't save that much in the long run, and mom essentially threw the money away when she got sick, just out of spite. She didn't want any of her kids to get a cent because she grew up poor and why should we get anything?

Life's too short. I don't have much money and never will, but I get myself almonds to snack on. Brand name almonds! I buy the good coffee and the nice cheese, not the store brand powdered cardboard.

Dataloungers would have a fit about all of it, I'm sure, but buying these things isn't keeping me poor.

by Anonymousreply 2506/04/2021

[quote]CVS/Walgreens brand of AA batteries are made by Duracell and are the same fucking battery

That doesn't seem to be true.

by Anonymousreply 2606/04/2021

I was a single gay in my 20s and had a lot of older friends and/or partnered friends. All of them made a big fuss about being frugal, insisting I should pinch pennies, go thrifting, buy generics, etc.

The irony I could never quite understand was how these same people thought nothing of spending $100 on alcohol and another $50 on cigarettes every time they left the house.

by Anonymousreply 2706/04/2021

R25 are you my sibling? LOL

by Anonymousreply 2806/04/2021

R25 and R27 True!

It's often the ones claiming to be frugal waste the most money. The bottom line is people spend money on what they wanna spend it on.

by Anonymousreply 2906/04/2021

[quote]I have more than a few friends who have 8-figure wealth who do the same.

R13, can you tell us more? Are these people with tens of millions of dollars in net worth? Inherited? Self-made?

Not challenging, just curious. I know some millionaires, but no 8-digit millionaires (that I'm aware of).

by Anonymousreply 3006/04/2021

[quote]I was a single gay in my 20s and had a lot of older friends and/or partnered friends. All of them made a big fuss about being frugal, insisting I should pinch pennies, go thrifting, buy generics, etc.

When I was young I always had a lot of middle-aged and much older friends. Regardless of whether they had loads of money or had to be careful to stretch their resources, I learned that every one of them was at least a bit of a tightwad on some sorts of things and extravagant on other sorts. Most of them were pretty reasonable and had a sense of humor about their sometimes odd areas of "savings." None were at all extravagant about expendable things other than food and travel.

by Anonymousreply 3106/04/2021

It was only once i quit drinking that I even considered the amount of money I'd spent on premium alcohol over 2-3 decades. Seriously, I could retire now on that money.

This is true of most gay men I know (who are not sober/in recovery).

Companies know that gay men spend a small fortune on alcohol, and market extensively toward us, in ways not everyone is aware of.

by Anonymousreply 3206/04/2021

My husband and I grew up in poverty. We are on the verge of upper middle class now. But I still have old habits, like using very old things that have to be finagled to work or wearing clothes until they get holes. It's ridiculous, because we have the money to replace these things.

My daughter is growing up in a class different from me and I have to keep remembering that what was luxury to me is normal for her. She's grateful for what she gets, but I would have dropped dead if my parents got me a toy "just because".

by Anonymousreply 3306/04/2021

The trouble I see is thinking of yourself as poor and perceiving being smart about money and keeping within your budget as making poor choices that keep you poor.

by Anonymousreply 3406/04/2021

I’m very similar to you OP. I have plenty of money for now and the future (I’m 53) but still live like I’m poor. I drive a used Honda, and I never pick up dinner or drink tabs in group settings. I grocery shop daily so I can pick the items about to expire that are marked 50% or more off retail. I grew up being taught the value of a dollar, and never forgot it! My frugality started out as just acquiring enough for a 6 month emergency fund but I kept on going. The only splurge I have is travel and gifts for mom.

by Anonymousreply 3506/04/2021

r4 = MC Hammer

by Anonymousreply 3606/04/2021

I grew up very poor. Multiple generations crammed into tiny apartments in bad neighborhoods, living off government subsidies, everyone living paycheck to meager paycheck, few or no toys at holidays, very unstable life poor. I am now tenuously lower middle class, and it took me decades to get there with no support whatsoever, while my friends who were raised middle class all have nice houses their parents helped them pay for, went to better colleges their families saved up for, lived in nicer places while they worked their way up jobs their families introduced them to, and so on. I'm not unhappy with my current circumstances, but it's a fact that having advantages early in life pays off in the long run.

by Anonymousreply 3706/04/2021

I grew up in a very frugal household.

I was trained to always by the cheapest item. My husband had to teach me to spend more and that quality matters. He forbade me from going to Ikea--thank goodness--We've been together a decade and without him, I'd likely still be shopping there. Now we buy furniture are moderately expensive places with an eye towards keeping them for at least 10-15 years.

by Anonymousreply 3806/04/2021

We used to DREAM about living in a corridor!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 3906/04/2021

I grew up lower-middle class and I can tell the difference between showing off that you might have wealth and really having wealth.

One way is cars. Once leasing started, so many lease (a.k.a. rent) cars they could never afford to buy. I don't find cars that alluring so I buy based on how long they will last--usually Japanese. My neighbors all have BMWs and such. We all have about the same income, I'm guessing because we live in similar houses. No way they can actually afford to buy those cars.

by Anonymousreply 4006/04/2021

Poverty is definitely a slippery slope. You almost need someone to extend a rope to ever get out. And that rarely happens.

by Anonymousreply 4106/04/2021

[quote] The thing is, now that I'm an adult, I'm pretty sure their refusal to buy brand name food or healthier food for me didn't save that much in the long run, and mom essentially threw the money away when she got sick, just out of spite. She didn't want any of her kids to get a cent because she grew up poor and why should we get anything?

My mom and her siblings grew up very poor. One of my aunts had a pretty spiteful attitude towards money, groceries, treats, or expenses when it came to her kids. She would make comments about how since my grandparents had no money for movies, zoo, musuems, carnivals etc she wasn't going to pay for her kids to experience those things. She was 14 years older than my mom and her kids were much older than me. There was an incident when I was 12 or 13, , my mom invited her on a shopping trip with us to pick up some food for a family reunion. We made a stop at a Target that had a snack bar in it. My mom was the type who would occasionally splurge on buying Icees or fountain drinks from the snack to drink. That day right before they were going to check out, my mom gave me cash to buy Icees or drinks and offered to buy my aunt something. My aunt flipped out at my mom for spending money on Icees. My mom told her that it was an occasional treat that didn't break the bank. We had to hear my aunt whine during the drive back to my parents' house about spending money on treats.

A few years ago, I told a friend about that incident. She told me about how when she was growing up her mom for awhile dated a guy who was a tightwad. He had kids from a previous marriage. My friend said her mom didn't have her spoiled, but was the type to occasionally splurge on a treat or a clothing item for her. Whenever they went places with the mom's ex tightwad boyfriend would bitch if my friend's mom occasionally offered to buy things like ice cream cones, drinks, or little souvenirs for the kids. My friend and I both said that kids shouldn't be spoiled, but the occasional

by Anonymousreply 4206/04/2021

^^ I hit post too son, i meant to add that the "occasional treats are ok for kids"

by Anonymousreply 4306/04/2021

Nope. I grew up lower middle class. I’m flying first-class right now, and paid for Wi-Fi to access this shitfest.

by Anonymousreply 4406/04/2021

I agree with everything you said, OP. I'm the same BUT I'm not a penny pincher. I'm have money now but I loath those who love to call themselves "frugal" because half the time you're paying for their cheapness.

by Anonymousreply 4506/04/2021

You are correct, R24. I have a nice SUV (that I bought used with very low mileage), and I have been able to travel quite a bit to places my parents would have never believed possible (Italy, Greece, England, Peru, etc.). I also have a nice house that is paid off so all of the saving and investing and working in a job that was soul-destroying worked out. My latest splurge was buying a painting by an artist I love at an estate sale yesterday. It was a third of what it sold for originally. There was a time where I would have never considered spending hundreds of dollars, though, on a painting.

The main thing is that I have to talk myself into doing such things because there is always a voice in my head telling me I should not be spending money on things that aren't the basics of life, i.e., groceries, utilities, gasoline, etc. I have zero interest in just throwing money around, but it would be nice to not have that thought of "doubting I am worth it" in those situations. I used to try to only spend $3.00 a day on lunch at the work cafeteria. It was like I didn't think I was worth splurging and having a $5.00 or $6.00 lunch. (I know...it's ridiculous; I have gotten better about it, just not completely, hence my original question.)

by Anonymousreply 4606/04/2021

R44

Bear in mind that Datalounge content is blocked by Amtrak wifi.

by Anonymousreply 4706/04/2021

My husband is cheap (frugal) and I am not. Like groceries: i have to eat, so I buy what I want. That doesn’t mean I purchase brand name versus generic all of the time.

by Anonymousreply 4806/04/2021

OP, I am so much like you but as I have gotten older do wonder if I need to die with a pile of money in the bank. I do have a younger husband so it would be nice to leave something behind. I buy almost everything second hand. I have reached a point where I no longer worry about the price of groceries I buy and get what I want without thinking. Maybe that is a step in the right or wrong direction. I am also willing to spend money on travel but often pick my destination by which country is having the best deal on a ticket. Anyway, do what you want OP and don't worry so much about it.

by Anonymousreply 4906/04/2021

As someone raised working class (and briefly, downright poor), I can recognize thee value in "frugality" but it's also important to avoid "thinking like a poor person" in other, more important ways.

For example, overcoming fear/aversion to risk. I invest and make my money work for me. I have family members and friends with (literally) hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in bank accounts, earning negligible interest over the decades. Wealthy people understand how to put their money to work and/or they hire professionals to advise and do it for them. (For whatever reason, some of these same risk-averse people always assume real estate is always a good safe investment. In some cases, for some people, it's not.)

Similarly, one must be prepared to take an occasional career risk, eg, quitting a good job for the long-term goal of an even better one, investing in continuing education, looking for additional sources of income and not thinking like "a wage slave." Loyalty to one's employer is very working class. It's also obsolete.

It's up to you to educate yourself about all of this. Your working class background will not prepare you for wealth.

by Anonymousreply 5006/04/2021

PS, one more biggie: your time is money.

Seems obvious, but some would prefer to drive across town and/or take an extra hour to save fifteen cents (or fifteen dollars, for that matter) on a single item. Or buy the cheapest possible version which will require replacement, (Ever notice how frequently working class America shops? A LOT.) My cleaning woman (in non-pandemic times) comes twice a month to clean my home. I could spend several hours doing the same job less well, or I could use that time to manage my own interests and generate many times what I pay her. And she appreciates the work.

by Anonymousreply 5106/04/2021

No, you’re not being miserly.

I worked with a guy that’d buy 1 jar of peanut butter and a loaf of bread. That’s all he ate at work for lunch, he owned his own home at the age of 20.

My elderly roommate had lost $250K in the last crash and I’d come home and she’d be huddled under one lightbulb and the whole apartment dark.

THAT’S being stupid.

by Anonymousreply 5206/04/2021

[quote] My husband is cheap (frugal) and I am not. Like groceries: i have to eat, so I buy what I want. That doesn’t mean I purchase brand name versus generic all of the time.

I'm kind of the same way. I'll sometimes buy generic brands. There was a really good blog a few years back that used to review various store brand products and would compare with name brand products.

by Anonymousreply 5306/04/2021

OP, if you don't mind being asked, how much money do you have saved and invested that your advisor says you'll be "comfortable"? I'm nearing retirement age and trying to decide what "comfortable" means for me (and thus when I can take the plunge.) Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 5406/04/2021

I know so many gays who got away from their poor, lower class families because they knew they were meant for better things. They went to big cities, for great educations, and have great jobs—while their families are still working minimum wage at home

by Anonymousreply 5506/04/2021

That is true R55. Gays often have the odds stacked against them in every way and being gay was one more thing that could make life harder. I'm sure this gave many the drive to get out of their circumstances which resulted in many gays some huge innate financial advantages over most other people.

- Most gays have not married so they never had to spring for wedding (or divorce) expenses and are not paying alimony to a former spouse.

- Most gays have not had the cost of raising kids, much less sending several kids to college.

- Most gays have not had to "pursue" a spouse, which takes time and money. Most dates for young guys is just fucking (or at most going dutch). They were free to pocket "dating" money and spend their time pursuing their education and career. And of course investing in a career meant a higher salary.

The bottom line is if you are a gay man who has not been grossly irresponsible with your money then you should be able to retire at a decent age and live "comfortably" for the rest of your life.

by Anonymousreply 5606/04/2021

r56, all while getting your holes satisfied!

by Anonymousreply 5706/04/2021

[quote]My elderly roommate had lost $250K in the last crash and I’d come home and she’d be huddled under one lightbulb and the whole apartment dark.

That’s just stupidity. An “elderly” person shouldn’t be heavily invested in the stock market. She deserves her dark apartment.

by Anonymousreply 5806/04/2021

R54, I could tell you but I don't think it would be really relevant for your situation because it is really about the ratio of investments to annual expenses. I am fortunate to have my house and car paid off and live in a relatively low cost area of the country. I have kept track of all of my expenses/money going out for years so I am very sure of my data. What I can tell you that might be helpful is that my annual expenses are 1.5% of my current investments (stocks/bonds/cash only; not counting house and other hard assets). Since the goal is to have your annual expenses be no more than 5% of your investments, that's why I am in good shape. Hopefully.

by Anonymousreply 5906/04/2021

R57 Right? That is the most important thing - enjoying your life without being bogged down by other people's problems! When married friends complain about a spouse or kids swallowing all their disposable income, I smile empathetically as I think about all the cum I am gonna swallow tonight.

by Anonymousreply 6006/04/2021

R30, I had a mind a three friends whom I knew well and saw often, from weekly to once a month. All inherited their money, though in one case it was less from his birth family than from a boyfriend; he kept the money in investments and lived off a.fairly modest salary for a quarter century or so, so a good sum that became a great sum. One of the others had an industrial fortune; the other had money from a family that had money, no very specific source other that accumulated investments, property, and interest in a few businesses. Two had government jobs and kept low profiles, not to be too showy.

by Anonymousreply 6106/04/2021

Store brands (generic) are sometimes really good. A lot of us are caught in the mindset that generic brands are always inferior and that's not true anymore.

by Anonymousreply 6206/04/2021

OP, if you're looking for an area to splurge, I would say anything that has to do with your health. Fruits, vegetables, good health insurance w/a low deductible, good dental car, etc.

I grew up in a frugal household and yes, I do pick up the tab sometimes. Not if it's a large group, but if it's just me and a friend, I will pay sometimes.

My sister came with me shopping once and got almost outraged at the things in my shopping cart. Things that I could get cheaper at another store. I told her that my time was valuable. I felt bad for her that her thinking was so limited.

by Anonymousreply 6306/04/2021

[quote]Store brands (generic) are sometimes really good.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 6406/04/2021

Dollar store coffee filters: $1.00 Store brand: $4.00

I buy some name brand items (Hellmans/Best Foods), but much of the time there's not a lot of difference.

by Anonymousreply 6506/04/2021

OP/R59 - Thank you, that is very helpful. I guess I just need to do more work on figuring out my exact expenses for each year and how they would look in retirement, then compare those expenses to my total assets. I find these predictions a little difficult in that I carry a lot of expenses for both my husband and myself because he works in an industry where he doesn't get paid cash on a routine basis, but then gets a huge lump sum that covers years of expenses and pays me back for his half of everything. So "budgeting" is a little more complicated, and I was just looking for some easy comfort from absolute numbers rather than the ratio you wisely suggest. Thanks for your thoughts.

by Anonymousreply 6606/04/2021

I came from an upper middle class family, but my parents drilled into me the importance of saving. When I got my first job in high school, I was paid a very nominal amount and slowly put away a miniscule amount each month. I think that started my adventures in savings and investments.

My first job out of college paid so little that I lived on tuna noodle casserole for two years-every single day, stretching it as far as I could . I can't stand the smell of t/n casserole 50 years later. I was still able to put a little bit of money aside in those days.

Now, I'm more than comfortable, retired at age 47, have my own beachfront home, plenty of investments and real estate. I buy quality food and can go on a trip anytime I like. I'm set for life. I do watch my money very carefully, don't over spend, and am still socking away money every month. I truly fear losing all that I've worked for, so I stick to a budget every month. My "fun money" goes to furniture, art and travel.

What gets me is my housekeeper. She spends every penny that she gets. She drives a new big black pickup truck and lives in a four bedroom house that she cannot afford to rent. She works part-time for me and has two other jobs, one about 50 miles away, 100 miles a day, and is now worried about being able to fill up the tank, but she is unwilling to sell her truck and get a car with good gas mileage. She lives from paycheck-paycheck and once she gets a check she goes right out and buys clothes and things for her house, at $1500/mo rent. She can afford neither the house or the truck. She just started her first bank account at age 54, and she just got her first credit card, but that's already maxed out. She just bought a 4-person hot tub, but she doesn't have enough money for food sometimes.

She also has a slightly mentally handicapped son and has not put away a dime for his care after she dies He gets money from the state because of his disabilities, but he spends it on things like going to Las Vegas to gamble and investing online in some crazy investment scheme, where they keep any money you've made (not re-invested, so where is it? Neither my housekeeper or her son knows exactly where his money is being held. I keep telling her that money is for his care/food, etc., but he spends it on nonsense. I also tell her that he's probably being scammed. They go to better restaurants than I do at least a couple of times a week, and then has to tell her landlord that she can't pay the full rent at the first of the month.

I can't imagine being so unconcerned about your future and that of your mentally handicapped son. I worry about when she can no longer work. What will they do? And what will her son do after she dies? He will be penniless. She just doesn't see what a trap she's building for herself.

by Anonymousreply 6706/04/2021

If he's penniless "the state will pick up the bill" is her mindset.

by Anonymousreply 6806/04/2021

[quote]If he's penniless "the state will pick up the bill" is her mindset.

This is why people vote for Republicans.

by Anonymousreply 6906/04/2021

The problem I keep seeing here is that many of you aren't thinking of the cost of care in your old age. Are you planning in-home care or going to a retirement home, then onto critical elder care when you can no longer do anything for yourself?

I spent well over $1.5MM for my mother's care over 20 years, first having in-home care, then critical care. Those prices will continue to grow, so unless you plan on living in a cardboard box, start saving NOW.

by Anonymousreply 7006/04/2021

Like R67, I'm was born into wealthy, Mayflower family. Some of my ancestor's home are parks and national historic sites. My name is on campus buildings across the North East. My family has lived frugally for 2 to 3 generations. I'm in the 3rd generation branch of frugal living . My investments are only mid 7 figures. My trust at 21 was only 6 figures. I'm not like the new rich. What I can't understand are my household staff, who can't seem to manage money. Always in debt, always pissing away any cash, living paycheck to paycheck. I guess that's just how peasants live. I'm glad I'm so evolved and will never have the miserable lives of the losers and the poor.

by Anonymousreply 7106/04/2021

R67 reads like a bad, heavy handed Dorothy Parker short story. Which is redundant.

by Anonymousreply 7206/04/2021

I don't think the world is as black and white as that. Of my four siblings born of working class Brooklyn people, two of us have college degrees and all of us are living a middle class existence above my parents before the 1970s. Something happened to the lower to middle class during that time that I have never found a good explanation. Before then a family could be taken care of well on only a father's wage. Something changed after that and American life changed.

by Anonymousreply 7306/04/2021

The smartest and truly the best people I know are cautious with money so that they have more to give to charity.

by Anonymousreply 7406/04/2021

Get off the cross R74. Poor people need the wood.

by Anonymousreply 7506/04/2021

If anyone sincerely cares about income inequality in America, "being cautious with money so they can give more to charity" is the least effective way to actually make a difference.

by Anonymousreply 7606/04/2021

First I congratulate r13 on the most reasoned, sensible finance-related post perhaps ever on Datalounge.

Money is a tool, not a goal. You're going to get older, retire, and likely get older still. You will have a certain amount of money (SS, qualified plan, other savings) from which you'll draw to live during those years. No reason to compare yourself to anyone else. No matter how large or small that amount of money is, you'll have to make it work. And you will.

UNTIL you need assisted care as mentioned above. That will blow through what you have in far less time than you'd imagine, even if you have Long Term Care insurance. A private room in a nice-ish nursing home costs on average $290 per day, or $8,821 per month. Of course they'll gladly take your Social Security but after savings are depleted, what are you going to do? It's Medicaid for you, honey, and the hassle of keeping receipts and qualifying for it is unreal. (Hint: Turn everything over to someone you trust as soon as you sense the need.) I don't need to go into the horrors of the Medicaid level of care. You're well aware.

I guess my point is, it's all a crapshoot no matter what you do.

by Anonymousreply 7706/04/2021

there is an article today in Bloomberg that is the most anti-capitalist thing I've ever seen in a financial newspaper. Found it through link on Drudge.

Basically said the top 1% is sucking the bottom 90% dry by keeping their money stashed away while also investing in banks and financial firms that then loan money to the bottom 90% at rates that escalate the poorer someone is.

Never forget, the mafia loan sharks used to charge about 15% APR and its now totally normal for a credit card company to charge 22-24% APR. Yes, a person would be stupid to spend on that card frivolously. But medical care and transportation aren't frivolous and lots of people get smacked with those charges. I just went to get my teeth cleaned and checked at a dental school and have about 5k in dental work to do--at dental school prices. Would be double at a regular dentist. (I go to the dental school because i have the time and I decided it was better to have multiple dentists deciding what was necessary--dentistry is a lot more speculative than people think under the best circumstances)

by Anonymousreply 7806/04/2021

But do remember only 15% of Americans over 85 live in nursing homes. Most stay in their homes until the very end and that is often with bringing in the hospice. We can over plan and worry about a future most of us will never have.

by Anonymousreply 7906/04/2021

[R71]

Ha! You've got your name all over the east coast, and I've got my name all over the west coast. We have the country covered!

by Anonymousreply 8006/04/2021

Damn! All the posts on this thread are so long!

by Anonymousreply 8106/04/2021

Yes R81. Once their holes have been empty for more than a decade - old white gay men can only talk about money, furniture and recipes. They disperse dry mouth advice just like some old aunt they used to avoid.

by Anonymousreply 8206/04/2021

R82 HAHAHA... I'm exercising and almost fell off the treadmill!

by Anonymousreply 8306/04/2021

[R71]

I never said I was from a wealthy Mayflower family. My grandfather was an immigrant and was a fisherman for a living. I worked for every penny that I've got, and still continue to save more. I'm sorry that this triggers you. I've been a salesperson in a clothing store, worked for a florist and at a stationery store, a reporter and, finally the owner of my own small businesses. That allowed me to retire early and comfortably.

There is nothing that you can say that would make me feel guilty for having what I worked so hard to achieve for so many years. And no, I didn't get financial help from my parents. I climbed up the ladder, step by step.

I see quite a bit of jealousy in your post. You could have done exactly the same things as I did, and then you'd be in the financial position that I'm in today. You only have yourself to blame for your financial position today.

[R71]

If possible, start gifting the full amount allowed ($15,000) each year to family or whoever you want to leave your assets to when you die. If you do this for 10 years or so, this will greatly reduce their inheritance taxes. To just give it all away in a will is just foolish, as your relatives will have to pay inheritance taxes at between 10-20% depending on the state they live in.

See, [R71], if you educate yourself on taxes and investments, you may actually have a chance on saving some money.

by Anonymousreply 8406/04/2021

^ 20+ years with nothing in the holes.

by Anonymousreply 8506/04/2021

[R71]

Ok, now I understand. You're 12 years old. ^^^^^^^^^^

by Anonymousreply 8606/04/2021

I hate a miser mentality. Have a friend who has about $10 mil and his home is always cold because he stints on the heating. Aaah!

Myself: I don’t generally bother about price tags. Life is short, and if I want something I get it. That said, I just don’t need STUFF for the sake of it. In the last two years, I think my only purchases have been two pairs of socks! Dining out bores the tits off me, as do theatre and concerts. Haven’t been to a cinema in years, and the last time I turned on the TV was Markle’s wedding. So even though I quit work years ago, I guess it’s no wonder money is never a worry. The idea that gay men are prime consumers is so infantilising.

by Anonymousreply 8706/04/2021

[R79]

Most people stay in their homes because they and their family can't afford the $100,000 to $120,000 a month to live in a retirement community or critical care unit. Yes, it's wonderful to have your loved one at home as long as possible, but in many cases, the elderly have medical issues where specialized care is necessary, and that can, in some circumstances, last for years. Some illnesses or disabilities can't be taken care of at home.

So, if you don't plan ahead for the worst (but hope for the best), you could be in for a very expensive surprise. Isn't it better to live without worry about how you're going to financially pay for care for your partner, parents and yourself?

by Anonymousreply 8806/04/2021

A friend who works in critical care says the lives of those he manages are so awful there is no way he won’t top himself if he gets incapacitated, and advises the same to everyone. So there’s no need to set aside several million for future care just so someone can wipe your arse and a care corporation can get richer.

by Anonymousreply 8906/04/2021

[R77] Yep, you understand about prices of assisted care. On top of your $10,000-$12,000/mo, need a Bandaid? That's $20.00. Need some gauze for a wound? That's $55.00. and on and on and on, so add a lot to the basic rate. Then add in the expenses not covered by insurance.

[R89]

I guess I was lucky in finding a wonderful care facility for my mother. The nurses were so kind and compassionate, and they took such great care of my mother. Mom was still able to talk when she first went in, so she'd have told me if something was wrong. Near the end, I was able to move into a bungalow on the care home property, so I was there almost every minute, and could watch what they were doing, or not doing. These people were so kind, that five years after my mother passed, they still call every once in awhile just to say hello.

Of course they liked me because I'd help them with everything from transferring a patient (bed to commode), and back, changing sheets with my mother in the bed, hair washing and bathing in bed, going for supplies, and generally being an assisting nurse, all of which I knew how to do because I'd done all of that on my own before she went into assisted living. If the nurses looked like they were swamped, I just took over her care until they could get there. Might as well help than just sit there.

by Anonymousreply 9006/04/2021

[quote]Ever notice how frequently working class America shops? A LOT.

This is so true r51, when I wasn't making much money at all I was at a shop three or four times a week, and it took me several months but I finally realized I was often buying things to replace something cheap I'd just bought weeks earlier. I remember going through about four brands and sizes of fabric softener before I realized I had to buy a small bottle of the brand name or else I wouldn't use it fast enough and it would go bad.

Nowadays even the brand name is bad a significant amount of time, though. I guess I'm going to have to change to a luxury brand of fabric softener, if I can even figure out what that is.

by Anonymousreply 9106/05/2021

I'm so glad I read this thread, I've always been curious about The Poors.

by Anonymousreply 9206/05/2021

If I like something I get it. I try not to overpay, but if I do, I won't stress over it. Life is too short!

by Anonymousreply 9306/05/2021

Ever notice how frequently Americans buy stupid shit they don't need or don't use?

Fabric softener. Dryer sheets. Pumpkin spice dryer sheets. Air fresheners. Febreeze. Vitamins. Swiffers and steam mops. Deep fryers. Air fryers. Panini presses and 100 kitchen things that sit unused. Lemon juice in a bottle. 50 kinds of "wipes."

The poorer they are, the more of this shit they have. And storage unit rentals in which to store all the overflow of worthless stuff.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 9406/05/2021

R94, I think everyone goes thru a "shit buying stage" but for most of us it is short-lived. What's pathetic is people who can't stop buying shit. These future hoarders have a house they can barely move around in because it is so full of shit they don't use - yet they keep buying more!

by Anonymousreply 9506/05/2021

Really good things: quality furnishings, art, etc. are prohibitively expensive to working class people, so they tend to fill their homes with disposable crap instead.

Minimalism is an aesthetic that only rich people embrace, for the most part.

by Anonymousreply 9606/05/2021

Poor people don't know how to throw shit away! They focus on how much they paid for it versus whether they still need it.

by Anonymousreply 9706/05/2021

Marry me, r94 (but only if you're another guy).

by Anonymousreply 9806/05/2021

Oh, R98, I see right through you. You only want me for my Microwave S'Mores Maker™!

by Anonymousreply 9906/05/2021

I don't mean to interrupt your little self-love session r94, but I do have to wonder why you didn't have the guts to just insult me for being a poor who buys fabric softener, and instead tried to gussy it up as deep insight, only to completely flub it.

You cannot possibly believe that dryer sheets or lemon juice are useless, and that "the poors" have loads of that stuff sitting around unused in their homes.

If you really do sit around on the weekends chuckling to yourself at the mental image of poors in their hovels, wearing potato sacks for clothes, surrounded by 100 bottles of ReaLemon 100% Lemon Juice (tm), then good luck to you and your therapist.

by Anonymousreply 10006/05/2021

Miss R100 has STATED HER BOUNDARIES!

by Anonymousreply 10106/05/2021

See, if you'd just done something simple like r101 in the first place, you wouldn't have looked like a try-hard. When in doubt, just call someone a fat whore and move on.

by Anonymousreply 10206/05/2021

[quote]You cannot possibly believe that dryer sheets or lemon juice are useless

I can't think of a more useless product than dryer sheets, unless your objective is to make your clothing and, by extension, yourself, stink out loud. I can't stand that smell. And it has nothing to do with income level, either real or perceived.

I dated a guy who grew up in Bethesda, MD—no outpost of the lower class—who was absolutely addicted to dryer sheets. He was beautiful. He had a large and perfect penis, and knew how to use it. But I could not get past the stench of his laundry products. Even naked, he reeked.

I had to have him over to my house rather than go to his place, as he also stunk that up with Glade plug-ins. And I had to shower him off before we could have sex. Even his penis reeked. His ball sweat was overpowered by the stench of Bounce.

Ultimately, I decided I couldn't go on with him any longer. Procter & Gamble could have him back. It was too bad. He was a funny, attractive homo. But stinking was more important than fucking.

Whaddya gonna do?

Not r94, btw (though I may have asked him to marry me in r98).

by Anonymousreply 10306/05/2021

Sending kudos & kisses to R94

by Anonymousreply 10406/05/2021

I grew up solidly middle class, but my parents were frugal as hell. As the eldest, I both rebelled against and subliminated many of their penny pinching tactics. I will buy high end furniture and linen, because that just seems logical, but I buy new clothes only at the end of the season when they are deeply discounted. I love shopping at thrift stores. I repair appliances whenever possible - my washing machine, fridge and stove are over twenty years old and have travelled with me through 4 states only because my job paid for moving expenses and it was cheaper to take them than replace them. I fly overseas in business class, but cheapest economy on local flights. I’ve never bought a new car in my life, but I do own two pre-owned luxury cars (ones a convertible for summer, the other an all wheel drive for winter). The only time I buy Starbucks coffee and stuff like that is when I am traveling and even then I start my journey with a thermos of homemade coffee and a cooler full of sandwiches and snacks on the seat beside me. I find it easier to just hand wash work shirts and underwear every evening after my shower (thanks, Mom!) and allow to air dry than to do laundry more than twice a month. I iron while watching tv. But I pay for my bedsheets and blankets to be picked up and professionally cleaned,

by Anonymousreply 10506/05/2021

I never thought we would have a troll that would hissssssssssssss over dryer sheets.

by Anonymousreply 10606/05/2021

Being poor is just a bad spiral. You don't have a car, so you shop at convenience-type stores (walking distance), high prices and no produce. You can't afford to buy large quantities (at a discount), so you pay pay pay every time for a small quantity. Your time is also spent shopping (disproportionately) because you're not stocking up.

I'm not rich, but I have a car and stock up on everyday stuff. When Coronavirus hit, I was actually OK / not bad. No, I'm not a doomsday prepper with loads of stuff in a basement. I did have lots of toilet paper and stuff like pasta and cereal, though.

by Anonymousreply 10706/05/2021

The quick answer to this is NO. Someone who starts young with the determination to get out of poverty can absolutely do it. It's not an incredibly high percentage of people though.

by Anonymousreply 10806/05/2021

Childhood poverty never really leaves you. Cary Grant while being one of the highest paid stars in Hollywood use to replace 60WW lightbulbs with 10WW. He use to unroll 2 ply toilet paper to make two rolls. He would pocket sugar and ketchup packets at restaurants. He charged fans a quarter for his autograph. It's a pathology.

by Anonymousreply 10906/05/2021

My mom would take all those packets from the table as well. If we were at a restaurant that gave you a basket of bread before the meal, she'd start gobbling that and be full before her dinner was served. Then, she'd take home her dinner leftovers plus whatever bread was in the basket, still. She might even ask the server for more bread. I think she just liked bread, too.

by Anonymousreply 11006/05/2021

I’m same way when it comes to paying for things. I’m very comfortable financially in my retirement but the penny-pinching I blame on my Scottish ancestors.

by Anonymousreply 11106/05/2021

Not to pick on R110's mom, but that story is a good metaphor for the "poor mindset."

[quote]a basket of bread before the meal, she'd start gobbling that and be full before her dinner was served. Then, she'd take home her dinner leftovers plus whatever bread was in the basket, still.

Focusing on the "free" unlimited bread vs actually enjoying the meal you ordered (and are paying for) at the time it's served.

by Anonymousreply 11206/05/2021

Speaking of in store brands - I would buy any of Trader Joe's in house brands. Same thing with Costco.

by Anonymousreply 11306/05/2021

money and the lack of money can really do a number on some people.

by Anonymousreply 11406/05/2021

You're right, R112. It was a poor person's mindset to fill up on free bread and ruin your appetite for dinner. She always felt bad that her appetite was gone. I felt bad for her as well.

by Anonymousreply 11506/05/2021

[quote]What gets me is my housekeeper. She spends every penny that she gets. She drives a new big black pickup truck and lives in a four bedroom house that she cannot afford to rent. She works part-time for me and has two other jobs, one about 50 miles away, 100 miles a day, and is now worried about being able to fill up the tank, but she is unwilling to sell her truck and get a car with good gas mileage. She lives from paycheck-paycheck and once she gets a check she goes right out and buys clothes and things for her house, at $1500/mo rent. She can afford neither the house or the truck. She just started her first bank account at age 54, and she just got her first credit card, but that's already maxed out. She just bought a 4-person hot tub, but she doesn't have enough money for food sometimes.

[quote] She also has a slightly mentally handicapped son and has not put away a dime for his care after she dies He gets money from the state because of his disabilities, but he spends it on things like going to Las Vegas to gamble and investing online in some crazy investment scheme, where they keep any money you've made (not re-invested, so where is it? Neither my housekeeper or her son knows exactly where his money is being held. I keep telling her that money is for his care/food, etc., but he spends it on nonsense. I also tell her that he's probably being scammed. They go to better restaurants than I do at least a couple of times a week, and then has to tell her landlord that she can't pay the full rent at the first of the month.

I know several people like that. They spend money like crazy and drive gas guzzler vehicles that they can't really afford. My cousin and his wife are both examples of this. They spend money like crazy and at one point they owned a gas guzzling Ram truck and they used to bitch about how much it cost to fill up. That truck eventually got repoed. My cousin started using the wife's van and the wife who was working part time was posting on Facebook about trying to find a used car to get work. Most people in the family already knew about their history of being bad with money. One of my aunts who lived in the same town suggested that she use the public bus system which had a stop near their house and one down the street from the wife's workplace. My cousin's wife said that the bus was for "low lifes and she didn't want to look poor." A few months later, she had a used car and my relatives said a few months later the car was gone. They figured it got repoed like the truck did.

I have a friend who is a retired social worker and she worked with disabled people and their families. She said there always some clients and client families who couldn't manage money well and they would refuse services like financial planning classes, or taking with financial planners who specialize in working with people who are disabled. My friend retired from social work in 2019. When the pandemic hit, former clients and/or their parents were contacting her via email and phone to see if she could refer them to financial planners or other services. She had the feeling that they were too embarrassed to seek help from their current case managers or social workers..

by Anonymousreply 11606/05/2021

Your story from "a friend" who is a social worker - is complete bullshit R116. Poor people do not contact retired social workers asking for FINANCIAL PLANNERS because we all almost died during COVID. Why do ancient gays and strange women shut ins post these no sex, no children, no life, no POC morality tales on this site? You're particularly nutty and egregious R116 - judging by your other posts.

Your stories have no ring of truth or real life to them. Social Workers don't usually recommend financial planners, nor would they mention it to someone as judgemental as you.

Who makes a RAM? Google it quick. Cuz that's not how people usually refer to it. You have your fantasies mixed up. Ha. You're a fool. Of course lots of people DO drive that vehicle and complain about the cost of gas. What has that got to do with your pathetic life?

by Anonymousreply 11706/05/2021

"I don't think of myself as cheap and I don't think it is a bad thing to still watch what I spend money on"

Well that's it right there. Frugality never hurts, it frequently helps.

by Anonymousreply 11806/05/2021

I've never heard of case workers recommending financial advisors to poverty level caregivers in my life. R116 is one of weirdest ESTs I've seen in a while.

by Anonymousreply 11906/05/2021

Was just reading an article that says that the average renter in the United States can only save about $500 per year. Homeownership has traditionally been the means of building wealth. 75% of whites own their homes and 42% of black people do.

I didn't know there was something called a "seller's assist" that occurs when houses sell sometimes. It's not happening these days. the only people getting into houses are those who have the cash to overbid and then more money to fix up the properties, since inspections and seller fixes are out the window as well

by Anonymousreply 12006/05/2021

My husband and I had solidly upper middle class childhoods with professional parents. Both of us graduated from good schools and eventually ended up in corporate life. Currently our salaries and assets are pushing the envelope to the upper 5%. Looking back, I realize how lucky we both were and the privilege we had. It didn’t feel like it when we were putting in 60 hour weeks early in our careers though. Also we’re both over 6 foot tall, which my short friend says is another bestowed privilege. So while we worked hard like we were supposed to, there was never any other expectation than success. I get that it is not quite the same now.

by Anonymousreply 12106/05/2021

Of course it's the same now. Tall handsome ivy leaguers can have success if they go corporate.

by Anonymousreply 12206/05/2021

To those who think taking care of your elderly loved ones at home is easy, be sure that you can pick up 170 lbs of weight or whatever your loved one weighs. You'll be lifting or moving that person several times a day. The major reason that caregivers stop doing care work is that their backs have been ruined by lifting and moving their patients. Then, what are you going to do when you can no longer lift them? Yep, that's when you finally decide to get professional care, but it's too late, as your back is now ruined.

Also , have fun wiping their asses and dumping and cleaning and bleaching the commode. Another fun thing is giving meds every four hours, 24 hours a day, usually pain meds. That means 10 a.m., 2 p.m. 6 pm. 10 p.m., 2 a.m., 6 a.m., etc. With all of the other duties, when will you get a decent night's sleep?

In-home care is like having a new baby, but 70-year-olds don't have the stamina or strength that young parents do.

by Anonymousreply 12306/05/2021

OP is just humble bragging. Heaven forbid OP, you shouldn't buy that $4 treat and not believe your advisor.

by Anonymousreply 12406/05/2021

This thread is filled with typical DL brags, which means not even bothering to be humble. And then the ESTs. I tried some very heavy satire and it just ticked off the role players.

by Anonymousreply 12506/05/2021

[R125]

Then your "satire" wasn't very good. That wasn't satire. Satire means wit, and you have none. It was pure jealousy.

Role players? Do you really believe that nobody on here has any money, just because you don't? You posts reek of jealousy and spitefulness, [R79] from yesterday and [R125] from today. You might consider dropping the "satire" and actually learning the basics of finance. I had to correct you on how to disperse your assets by gifting before you die to reduce inheritance tax, but I gather now that you have no assets to worry about. I'm also can see from the weakness of your other posts that you don't understand it.

by Anonymousreply 12606/05/2021

Oh honey, I spent 5 years in T&E at Chase Private Bank and another 5 at Lombard Odier. And I don't talk smack about my "housekeeper".

by Anonymousreply 12706/05/2021

I guess your days I working in a bank left you without the ability to comprehend my post. I said I was worried about my housekeeper and what will happen to her in her old age, and what will happen to her disabled son. If you can't understand compassion, then that's on you.

Again, your jealousy and spitefulness has emerged, and it's doing you no favors.

PS If you worked in a bank at that level, as you SAY you did, you'd know all about gifting to reduce inheritance taxes. Gotcha on that one, huh!

by Anonymousreply 12806/05/2021

Dead is dead, either way R126. Are you loved? Will anyone even notice when you're gone.

Have money, spend money. Waste money. Who fucking cares? You can't control your destiny. It's nice to be prepared for illness and not be poor. But who have you had to look after in your life other than your pets and yourself? No one. Skin care and douching is your equivalent of raising a child. Oh the turmoils of treating STDs and still keeping a freshly clean hole! Planning trips is so stressful. Parents are demanding! One must plan ahead, be cheap but invest in good linens. Yikes. Old gays are unbelievably shameful. What happened to the bohemian iconoclasts and great artists and queer revolutionaries? They have a name. Even if they were wiped out by a plague. Killed by lovers or lived and died in humble but lively surroundings. Money and the talk of money is necessary, but most always boring and soul crushing.

That's why poor people eat out or have huge cable bills or get their nails done. Ain't nothing wrong with enjoying something when you're pretty sure you'll never have anything in the bank.

Many of us are successful enough. No need to be so fucking boring and nursey about it. Eesh.

You're not worried about your housekeeper or her disabled son R128. It's not even convincing as a fallacy.

Eesh to all of you. Have another drink or start one of your Joan Crawford threads. Or one of your Saturday night special race baiting scenarios. Leave living breathing fucking hopeful people alone. I just spent $200 on 5 new pair of briefs. OoowweeEEE I look good. And I can sell em for more later, trust me.

by Anonymousreply 12906/05/2021

[R129]

I believe you need therapy. Your posts are not normal.

by Anonymousreply 13006/05/2021

You're lumping someone else's posts in with mine, sweetie. And my post about watered-down Mayflower wealth was snarky fiction. I don't know who you are trying to advice about wealth transfer but several decades ago I was an expert in GSTTs and international transfer tax treaties.

Anyone posting about their status way above the poor, in this THIS thread, has missed the fil conducteur. In my honest opinion. And your lengthy description of your "housekeeper"'s stereotypical financial recklessness dooming her forever to the precarious class is tone deaf in this thread. In my opinion.

by Anonymousreply 13106/05/2021

My posts are above your pay grade R130. You won't ever afford me either. Go back to whatever it is you pretend to do.

by Anonymousreply 13206/05/2021

Just continue to ramble on [R132] with these stories of yours. You're boring, jealous and spiteful. Again, I believe that you need mental help.

I don't have a "pay grade," which implies a salary, like you had to live on. " Again, if you worked at the level of banking that you SAY you've worked at, you wouldn't be discussing pay grade. I don't have a "pay grade." I have investments.

I'm sorry that you're so invested in trying to act above your "pay grade."

by Anonymousreply 13306/05/2021

R132 isn't me, the ex banker, gramps! More than one person isn't having your bullshit.

If you're so compassionate about your "housekeeper"

1) pay her SS

2) buy her family health care

3) give her a raise and match the raise and put both in an IRA for her

4) consider a nice bequest, or one for her children. Control it through a trustee if you think she's so irresponsible. But she'll be very grateful.

by Anonymousreply 13406/05/2021

[quote] Skin care and douching is your equivalent of raising a child.

There is no need to lash out at the entire community, R129. Doesn't every gay man's life revolve around these things, rich or poor?

by Anonymousreply 13506/05/2021

"I've never heard of case workers recommending financial advisors to poverty level caregivers in my life."

I don't think that the case worker was going to refer them to her Edward Jones guy, I think what that person meant was either classes in basic financial management, or someone who could give basic advice one-on-one. I hope such people exist, because yes, some people don't understand basic financial management.

I also think some people don't want to understand basic financial management, because that would mean facing the brutal truth that they're poor and are going to stay there. Others take financial irresponsibility to the level of mental illness, and I've seen this in real life. Some people find that spending makes them very happy and they'll use spending as a quick fix when they're unhappy. And when the bills come in they get unhappy and then they go out and spend more.. I knew someone like this. She was from a wealthy family, I mean she wasn't like Elton John with more money than she could ever spend, but very well off. And she still managed to strain the family finances. There were problems, but she couldn't stop.

by Anonymousreply 13606/05/2021

r119, they got the idea for their EST from the guy at r71 who was obviously joking about being from a Mayflower family. I notice this happens a lot, we get someone making a joke post like r71 did and either someone makes their own EST out of it, or a bunch of people cannot be convinced it's a joke. Sometimes both!

by Anonymousreply 13706/05/2021

That happens a lot r125, I think people only read the first few words so they didn't get to the end of your post where it was so obviously satire even the dimmest bulb should have realized it.

by Anonymousreply 13806/05/2021

Indeed, as I ALWAYS reminded my very own mother!

by Anonymousreply 13906/05/2021

I hear you R103 about the 'deodourising' smells foisted on consumers now. Some of the worst are washing powder and bin liner scents. One has to really hunt now for bin liners that DON'T contain them, otherwise they stink out the house. I suspect most people's sense of smell has become dulled by being saturated in household products where they leak from everywhere. I love the natural delicate smells of the outdoors and male bodies.

by Anonymousreply 14006/06/2021

[quote] I just spent $200 on 5 new pair of briefs.

Such extravagance R129! We're quite thrilled to the marrow. Presumably you're 'saving up' for a pair of Derek Rose boxers ($225 a pop).

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14106/06/2021

I used Persil based on recommendations in a thread about detergents, and that is easily the strongest smelling detergent I have ever encountered. The whole house smells like Persil as the load washes, even after rinsing and drying.

Even when I used dryer sheets for static cling they never smelled like that. I use wool dryer balls these days and they work great, but I need to add a fragrance free dryer sheet for towels and sheets or else I risk death from static zaps.

by Anonymousreply 14206/06/2021

Threads like these highlight how big the wealth gap seems to be getting. That's not a good thing.

by Anonymousreply 14306/06/2021

This thread has taken a weird turn into discussions about fabric softeners, how to attain wealth, and whether or not poor people are capable of following basic financial skills in order to build wealth.

While those all may be worthwhile discussions (although, honestly, there is no way the fabric softener issue is ever going to be worth discussing), the premise of the original topic is based on accepting the fact that some people who grew up poor or lower middle class HAVE successfully navigated life to the point where they are financially comfortable (from an independent financial advisor's viewpoint). It's just that, after a life time of following the rules it takes to gain the sought-for wealth like not spending money on frivolous items, saving religiously, etc., once you reach the destination, how do you let go of strictly adhering to the rules that got you there? When you have spent a lifetime of saving, how do you successfully switch your mindset to not worry about saving any more and, instead, enjoy spending what you have because you aren't going to outlive it?

by Anonymousreply 14406/06/2021

I’ve seen it go either way, where the person either goes through money like water or are like the OP.

I am closer to the OP. my partner and I recently retired (quite early for me). Our separate financial advisors insist we will be in great shape. My partner is starting to talk as though we are poor, and if I shared what we have between the two of us, most here would think of rich.

But it’s a real adjustment for me to no longer have money coming in. I just scheduled my first real vacation in decades and it feels like I’m throwing money away.

by Anonymousreply 14506/06/2021

Very rarely do poor people become poor again. They will do whatever it takes. You can take some risks when you are young. But when you get old you better hold keep your money as "Hands off" as an old bitch's pussy!

by Anonymousreply 14606/06/2021

"It's just that, after a life time of following the rules it takes to gain the sought-for wealth like not spending money on frivolous items, saving religiously, etc.,"

I'm approaching that position, but only as I'm getting close to retirement age, and have to start thinking about how a childless person can pay for elder care in their declining years. Plus I'm getting more worried about my own health and my ability to work as long as I've planned, not to mention the political and economic future of my country. So now the worry isn't just "Can I afford a condo in a place I like", it's "Can I afford to start over after emmigrating, and buy a condo in another country?".

Honestly, I don't think the financial worries every stop, if you have the sense to take your personal finances seriously. Even if you're seriously rich, there's always going to be worries about how to protect yourself from economic crashes or dishonest business managers.

by Anonymousreply 14706/06/2021

R147 The list of "terribles" could go on and on. I think about people like the late Bernie Madoff. What an asshole to steal people's life savings like that just so he could have MORE money! I think you have to invest and diversify your whole life, but as you get older you just cannot invest as much. You gotta keep some cash on hand. Then you gotta worry about the banks too. Anything can happen. You can't be a worry wart though. Do the best you can and try not to freak out. Chances are, you'll be ok.

by Anonymousreply 14806/06/2021

It’s a good idea to have a financial advisor/planner to map out a strategy. It’s easy to think that $x million is a ton of money but not realize how quickly you can drain it.

Prior to retiring, my financial advisor and I had several meetings then had a few more after I left work, and that’s helped me feel much more comfortable that we have a well-thought-out and realistic plan and so long as I don’t go crazy, I will be fine. I’m still a bit concerned that once my income ends (I still have money coming in for a while) I will be a hyperventilating mess!

by Anonymousreply 14906/06/2021

Well that's the thing about having been poor and desperate, you know it CAN happen to you.

Over the years I've worked with a ton of people believe that they'll always be fine, that they're great with money and they've handled things so well that they'll be fine for generations, and of course quite a few of those people were or are dickwads who blame the poor for being poor because they didn't make the choice to be white, middle-class, and enrolled in good schools like themselves. Some of these people lost houses in the crash of 2008, some didn't and are still confident that poverty will never happen to them. Well, it's already happened to me, I've been down to my last few hundred bucks and with no family who'd give me a dime, I'm okay for now but I'll never be able to believe that I'll always be fine.

by Anonymousreply 15006/06/2021

The secret to eldergay happiness is to think about others, rather than self.

Gofund Kevin Sessums. Your heart and burdens will lift! :-)

by Anonymousreply 15106/06/2021

R150 So you are just gonna constantly worry about it for the rest of your life? My point was because you know it CAN happen to you, then you will be extra vigilant. That vigilance will make it less likely for you to be poor again. The rich White people who never experienced any real adversity are ripe for a reversal of fortune. It happens (not often because the system continues to protect them with a GAZILLION safety nets - including tax benefits... but I digress) but it is less likely. The working class people (especially those who are Black or Brown) must be extra vigilant. I know it is hard, but you cannot spend your life worrying.

Let's be honest. Financial planners are only making educated guesses. Sure you should consult with them, but it is ultimately you who has to make the decisions.

While often times, the greater the risk means the greater the reward, sometimes a big risk can cause you to lose it all. Do what is comfortable for YOU! What can you afford to lose? The bottom line is that no matter what any "planner" tells you, if you are an older working class person (who has been poor), you cannot take as many risks with your money as everyone else can. You just can't. You have to be satisfied with that and move along.

by Anonymousreply 15206/06/2021

"[R150] So you are just gonna constantly worry about it for the rest of your life? "

Oh, I don't spend my life worrying, and I have the material goods I need, most of what I want, and am totally willing to splurge on stuff I really want.

But no, those of us who've been poor can never forget it. I was raised by parents who went from okay to dirt poor to prosperous, and I've been prosperous, dirt poor, and prosperous again, and none of that will never really leave me. What can I say, there are negative experiences that ruin your life, there are negative experiences you get over, and then there's the negative experiences that profoundly effect your life. They don't dominate your existence or take over your life, but they never go away.

by Anonymousreply 15306/06/2021

[quote] Very rarely do poor people become poor again.

Lottery winners who lost it all.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 15406/06/2021

I sometimes think of all the middle-aged and older gay on Data Lounge who draw the short straw and have to take care of Mother for umpteen years, or both parents...and it doesn't seem like a lot of these gay men pressed into looking after their parents have a love of intersection with those who have $X millions in savings and who fret/boast that they worry that it won't be enough.

What happens to the gay men who left shitty jobs where they had shitty salaries, no benefits, and no savings to give their mothers sponge baths and cart them around to doctors' appointments for 6, 12, 18 years. Unless Mother was rich, her son is going to be in a very hard place and who will make a sacrifice of years of time to look after him if his health fails.

Infirmity in old age happens across classes, but for people who don't have a lot, and whose sons end up as caretakers for years and what combined resources there may have been disappear, it's not a happy prospect once the gay son is on his own again.

It comes up so often in DL and I wonder each time, what will happen to the son who made the sacrifices.

by Anonymousreply 15506/06/2021

I am millionaire many times over but I still feel the shame of mom, in her requisite uniform of white gloves and pearls, telling me we were struggling financially, even though everything suggested otherwise. Weekends at the Cape were always a pleasant retreat from Exeter. I turns out we really were filthy rich all along. My financial advisor confirmed this, but I am in shock, stunned. Did I say I was shocked? It kills me to indulge in the little things in life like that vintage Mercedes SL I had been eyeing. My partner said I was ridiculous and that there was no room for a our new adopted son's car sear. I said that was what the Land Rover was for or we can leave him home with Bessie, our Nigerian black maid. This is an inclusive household! Housecleaning is not just an exclusive club for Mexicans!!!!! Anyhow, I had always wondered if being born rich would ensure I was rich as an adult and sure enough, it it! Even though Mother threatened to leave all the money to Immaculata, our beloved maid who was really more part of the family, she did not. Immaculata is where we all feel she'll be most comfortable, in an affordable nursing home somewhere on Long Island. I just can't believe it my luck! Should I splurge? Should I feel guilt. My hung, strapping, extremely masculine and very faithful husbear says I am too kind hearted, to stop torturing myself, but alas I cannot. DL, what should I do!?!?!?!

by Anonymousreply 15606/06/2021

You should jump directly into the nearest grease fire, R156. That was an easy one to answer.

by Anonymousreply 15706/06/2021

Hey everyone. there is no such thing as fragrance free detergent. detergent smells gross. the fragrance free ones use less overpowering smells but they do balance out the yuck smell to as close to neutral as they can get.

I keep the "fragrance free" one in the giant size and after using some, I dump in a small bottle of tide or Persil. You still get some of the good smell but diluted 20x.

by Anonymousreply 15806/06/2021

"What happens to the gay men who left shitty jobs where they had shitty salaries, no benefits, and no savings to give their mothers sponge baths and cart them around to doctors' appointments for 6, 12, 18 years. "

It's always the gay son or the daughter who ends up making those sacrifices, not the straight son who "has a family of his own". If there's family pressure involved in someone giving up their job to be a caregiver, it's usually applied to the person least able to afford years away from the work force, and is very often sweetened with false promises of future financial support in exchange for the sacrifice. Families suck.

by Anonymousreply 15906/06/2021

In all seriousness, I have worked with eldergays. What happens to childless eldergays is that they are often struggling with housing, finances, and health. Many have severe PTSD, health concerns, are estranged from their families due to no fault of their own other than being themselves and have survivors guilt from the 80's. Some gave every last dollar they had to medical bills to try to save their ailing partners and are flat broke. Many are on some kind of public assistance and on very long waiting lists for housing, especially extremely rare LGBT senior housing. This is a hugely neglected community that nobody acknowledges or talks about.

by Anonymousreply 16006/06/2021

OP, nothing wrong with being frugal and passing up overpriced junk. It's OK to spend for things that have real meaning and last, but most people in debt have usually done it with stuff they easily could skip.

by Anonymousreply 16106/06/2021

I have a lot of extra pennies in my old age, but I watch every cent I spend. I come from an NCO military family of 7. we weren't poor, but there was little extra for non living expense spending. Once we kids were in high school, Mom went back to work. All of us kids got part time jobs on the base too. To this day, 60 years later, I still insist on the best price for everything I buy, not the the lowest price always but the best value price.

by Anonymousreply 16206/06/2021

R160 and R155 bring up relevant issues, and speak the truth.

DL would have you believed that most of us are aging corporate titans and powerhouse professionals with multiple homes and multimillions in investments. The reality is that even now most gays and lesbians are actually earning less than their straight counterparts. Some are (gasp!) working class. Inequality and institutionalized homophobia still exist. And gay men (particularly single men) have many fewer options as they age and their health declines.

The myth of gay male affluence is just that--a myth--but much too big an issue to address in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 16306/06/2021

[R116]

You are full of shit. Retired social worker of 30 years (2018). Clients don’t ask their social workers for referrals to financial planners. Social workers don’t refer clients to financial planners. Ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 16406/06/2021

The problem with spending all of your money is that, in my case, I've set up a trust to provide college scholarships to disadvantaged youth. The other half is split between my cousin and her husband, who have serious health issues and very little money ,and my dear friend of 40 years, who once was my handy man.

I have a responsibility to leave all of them as much as I can, although I already subsidize all of them monthly. They are very careful with their money, and they deserve the help.

And some nutter thinks I should add my housekeeper to the list:

'If you're so compassionate about your "housekeeper"

1) pay her SS

2) buy her family health care

3) give her a raise and match the raise and put both in an IRA for her

4) consider a nice bequest, or one for her children. Control it through a trustee if you think she's so irresponsible. But she'll be very grateful."

This is just the worst financial advice I've ever read. My attorney would tell you that it would be crazy to set up and IRA pay or her health care (she gets it through another job) for my housekeeper. She is very well paid by me, has had several raises and gets large(several thousand each time) bonuses twice a year. She could start up an IRA, or put away same money for her child's future, but she's never stopped her spending beyond her monthly take, and she has no interest in learning the basics of finance to secure her future and that of her son.

If she shows that she can handle her money in a normal manner that all of us do, then I would consider leaving her something in my will, if she is still working for me, but family and decades-long friends come first. My housekeeper is not dealing with a fatal illness, as my cousin, her husband and my friend are. I doubt my friend will live through the end of this year.

Do I take financially take care of the mail man, the UPS driver, my neighbors and the dog catcher, too? Idiot.

by Anonymousreply 165Last Monday at 2:14 PM

[R57]

[R56] thinks he has great wit, and that what he wrote was "satire." He just doesn't understand that he is in no way amusing. Also, there is a lot of jealousy coming from him. His financial advice is ridiculous, and he thinks we believe he worked at a high position in banking. However, he completely blew his cover by not understanding that gifting reduces inheritance taxes, Any banker, even a low-level one, would know that.

by Anonymousreply 166Last Monday at 3:29 PM

To the person who asked if I've ever looked after anybody, the answer is yes. I took care of my father while he was dying of cancer. I was 21. I took care of my sister, who died of cancer. I was 45. I took care of my mother for 19 years, and she was bedridden with multiple illnesses. I was 49. Yes, my entire family is dead, so don't give me any crap about taking care of somebody. And when I say that I took care of them, I was their caregiver.

To the person who asked me that question, you are cruel. I have no other word for it, but you are an extremely cruel person.

by Anonymousreply 167Last Monday at 5:38 PM

R167 your family was so very lucky to have you, I'm sure they knew that. I'm sorry for your losses.

by Anonymousreply 168Last Monday at 7:40 PM

[R168]

Thank you. I'm just a crying mess right now.

by Anonymousreply 169Last Monday at 7:42 PM

It's a cruel summer for R169. Leaving him here, on his own. You're not the only one, though. You have DL for support.

by Anonymousreply 170Last Monday at 11:04 PM

OP and others are asking the wrong questions. The right question is, why are people so obsessed with money and whether or not they should be buying expensive things because they can afford to? Beyond the simple necessities (food, shelter, health care), a person doesn't need expensive things. Buy something if it gives you pleasure, but don't feel obligated to buy things because some disembodied voice on a rectangular box in your living room keeps insisting loudly that you must, for your own happiness, buy a new car, a new appliance, an expensive wine, an expensive meal at the "in restaurant du jour" , or a particular kind of clothing or jewelry. All of this emphasis on things is a manifestation of the very worst aspects of materialism. Materialism is the notion that material things are more important than intellectual, emotional, or spiritual attainments, and the people who glorify hedonism rarely lead happy or fulfilled lives. Note that I'm not saying that the desperately poor are happier than those who are well off - partly because the poor are always insecure about obtaining or holding onto the simplest necessities.

by Anonymousreply 171Last Tuesday at 12:19 AM

R166 Your post makes no sense. Not sure what you are trying to say but it sounds like a bunch of gibberish and doesn't at all relate to the posts you referenced. Are you drunk?

by Anonymousreply 172Last Tuesday at 12:59 AM

Damn -- this thread gives new meaning to the words "pointless bitchery."

by Anonymousreply 173Last Tuesday at 1:36 AM

R171, no, that isn't the right question. I'm not referencing buying expensive things just because of advertising or to keep up with your peers. Having "the latest" anything isn't something I'm even interested in and I don't care if other people do have something newer. In fact, I usually think less of them, if anything. I'm never even influenced by advertising and think that people who ARE influenced by it are weak-willed.

I'm referencing trying to get over the inner pang of anxiety that would come with ordering the $20 entree when you'd also be happy with the $15 entree. That is a mindset that is picked up very early in life when you are poor and I'm wondering if others find it difficult to overcome as well.

by Anonymousreply 174Last Tuesday at 5:56 AM

Bump for more insights.

by Anonymousreply 175Last Wednesday at 7:28 AM

[quote]I'm referencing trying to get over the inner pang of anxiety that would come with ordering the $20 entree when you'd also be happy with the $15 entree. That is a mindset that is picked up very early in life when you are poor and I'm wondering if others find it difficult to overcome as well.

Mindset from childhood, or stubbornness?

I can't think of many unshakeable mindsets from childhood that burden me. Maybe the instinct to mind my position in relation to others — not socio-economic but purely about physical space and courtesy to be mindful enough of your surroundings not to impede the normal comings and goings of others. Don't stop to tie your shoes at the bottom of the escalator. I think of this one because I now live in a place where everyone is always in everyone else's way, and yet in works fine; the rules are just a bit different. You adjust.

I can't understand the qualms about the difference in cost of a $15 versus $20 entree. Somehow that seems like picking a fight. Now if the left hand side of the menu had perfectly appealing entrees in the $10-19 range but the right side had entrees no more appealing in the $40+ range, I can see dismissing the more expensive option. That's a big difference and I might dismiss it out of hand thinking I've just see two appealing choices for less than half the price of these others; I'm $35 hungry, not 60 hungry. But $5, that's just miserable. And holding onto that mindset for many years when the necessity once at the root of it is long lifted seems to have some conscious aspect to it.

I joke that my other would have stopped highway traffic to pick up a shiny penny from the roadway. She died a millionaire and was never at all confident with decisions about large sums of money, but would seize control—right or wrong— and give voice to her very strong feelings about small, even the tiniest of sums.

by Anonymousreply 176Last Wednesday at 8:48 AM

Were you raised middle to upper class, R176? I'm wondering if that is why you can't relate to the qualm about spending 30% more on an entree. It isn't at all about stubbornness; it's about trying to reconcile that you are worth it.

by Anonymousreply 177Last Wednesday at 10:22 AM

"I'm referencing trying to get over the inner pang of anxiety that would come with ordering the $20 entree when you'd also be happy with the $15 entree"

I've learned to shut myself up over minor expenses by realizing that $5 or $10 means... X minutes pay, if I calculate my salary as hourly. Is something small worth five or ten or twenty minutes of work? Thinking of things that way shuts up the guilt-and-anxiety part of the brain, although it may start up again when I retire.

And I never have to worry about expensive entrees! The vegetarian option is never the most expensive!

by Anonymousreply 178Last Wednesday at 10:32 AM

OP- The more pertinent question is

Once a FAT WHORE, ALWAYS A FAT WHORE?

by Anonymousreply 179Last Wednesday at 10:35 AM

R178, I was able to do that rationalization a little bit when I was working, but now I am retired. Oddly enough, though, if anything, retirement has helped because I now have my pension and 401(k) money and watching the swings the balance takes daily helps me realize that $5 or $50 really isn't that big a deal to my long term financial well-being.

by Anonymousreply 180Last Wednesday at 10:42 AM

Get a load at Rockefeller at R180! 🙄

by Anonymousreply 181Last Wednesday at 11:16 AM

[quote]Were you raised middle to upper class, [R176]? I'm wondering if that is why you can't relate to the qualm about spending 30% more on an entree. It isn't at all about stubbornness; it's about trying to reconcile that you are worth it.

R177, middle class. True, my parents didn't object if I ordered one entree that was one-third more expensive than another, and I had as many new, "nice clothes" as I could stand, both things they regarded as necessities. However the same parents begrudged me dental care, college, the $5 for a school field trip, books... It didn't take me until I was 50, or 25, or even 12 to realize that that was fucked up. Some mindsets from childhood you embrace, others you reject.

by Anonymousreply 182Last Wednesday at 12:32 PM

My parents were prosperous, but they'd grown up during the Great Depression, and never lost their habits of frugality. I was sent to a good public school with a bunch of rich kids, because they'd bought a house in a nice neighborhood near a wealthy one, and my wardrove was two pairs of pants and two shirts per year. From SEARS.

Now the habits of frugality have served me well during the bad times, and if it weren't for the ingrained habit of saving against future disasters I'd have ended up homeless when the disaster actually hit, so I can't say the financial lessons I learned were all bad in spite of the mortifying embarrassment involved. But there's a point where sensible frugality becomes destructive cheapness, and it comes when you refuse to take your kid to the dentist even though you can afford to, as above, or even refusing to buy your kid a 3rd shirt because you didn't have one growing up. Come the fuck on!

by Anonymousreply 183Last Wednesday at 1:42 PM

There are a lot of black swans coming up in the next 10 to 15 years that could wipe everyone out. Like the fact that by 2030 we hit peak oil and they haven't found any new oil in decades. Fracking means companies are losing tons of money. This cannot last. Once the oil starts to deplete the civilization will collapse and everyone will be broke.

by Anonymousreply 184Last Wednesday at 5:06 PM

An overlooked category of cosily retired gay persons are those of single parent families who (sometimes) live with a widowed mother, but in any case, inherit THE LOT. A know a few who stopped work in their mid 30s or 40s "to look after mother" --who often didn't need looking after, but just wanted the company, or someone to pick up the groceries. There's heaps of homes in the suburbs lived in by gay men and women who got it all, and have lived great lives of leisure due to frugal parents.

by Anonymousreply 185Last Thursday at 5:06 AM

"An overlooked category of cosily retired gay persons are those of single parent families who (sometimes) live with a widowed mother, but in any case, inherit THE LOT"

That's me. I don't live with my mom (yet) and I still work (for now), but my partner and I are definitely the ones looking after her. She has a big house on the north shore of Long Island and she's CHEAP as fuck. We're there every weekend, doing things around the house, overseeing landscaping, tending to her garden...cooking a nice dinner for her on Saturdays, etc. We've discussed her selling the house (it would fetch over 800K) and downsizing but she wants to age in place...so we're going to help her do that knowing we get everything.

She also has passive income from investments, as well as a family trust fund that gives her a few thousand a month. You would never know it. Her car is 20 years old and she agonizes over any little new purchase. It's fucking annoying. HER family was cheap as fuck too. It's crazy - they generated all this money and then refused to do anything with it (my grandmother lived in a modest house in rural Michigan and never spent).

In the end, I'm thankful for the family frugality - because I certainly intend to spend that shit down.

by Anonymousreply 186Last Thursday at 5:45 AM

154 lottery winners are the exception and not the rule. How many lottery winners do you know? How many of them worked hard their whole lives to escape poverty? Stop trying to take things to the extreme. You look like a fool.

by Anonymousreply 187Last Thursday at 7:21 AM

They should make a law that says if you are 75 or 78 you can be allowed to be euthanized. Many people would do it for various reasons. I never wanted to live past 75 because I worked in eldercare and so many have a really rough time. I think It is cruel to force people to live and suffer.

by Anonymousreply 188Last Thursday at 11:55 AM

Good answer R159! Everyone assumes the single gay has no life and has TIME and won't be inconvenienced if the aging relative is left on their doorstep. Fuck that! Not just financially, but culturally and socially, the gay one needs his time and this seriously cramps his style. He is the LEAST available in his prime! He's not taking Mom to parties on Fire Island or, the weird films or plays, or to the Pride Celebrations etc. Mom's MUCH better suited for sitting around with the son or daughter with the family playing parchessi or watching Nickelodeon with the kids. Not to mention (as earlier implied) the gay has no spouse or family to rely on financially in HIS old age. He needs to be building his own safety net (financially and socially) in his prime and not "giving mom sponge baths."

by Anonymousreply 18918 hours ago
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