Let's Discuss THE WOMEN Remake (2008), DL

How was this received on DL back in 2008? Were people dismissive or receptive?

I suspect a lot of you will blame its failure on poor Meg Ryan.

I went to see this movie. It was not a successful remake.

Not just because of Meg Ryan - she really wasn't any more annoying than Norma Shearer was in the original. But the movie's concept was just too dated, and forcing it and the characters into the 2000's was too much of a stretch.

I enjoyed it... somewhat of a good feelings movie

Annette Bening should've sued. She looked old and haggardly.

It’s awful, cringeworthy even.

Why? DL is out of topics

Abysmal. I couldn't even get through 40 minutes.

It's no The Opposite Sex!

^ Dreamy Jeff Richards...

Watching this now on Tubi TV.

English is trying to say something new about self-determination, friendship, and mother-daughtering. But it's kind of getting lost.

Plus the rest of it is more dreary than bitchy glamourous fun. There's a lot of conspicuous money onscreen, but it's not glamourous.

2008 NYC feels like 100 years ago.

Here's some shocking information about this God-awful train wreck:

Budget:$16,000,000 (estimated) Cumulative Worldwide Gross: $50,007,546

IT MADE (a modest) PROFIT! Lord.

That is shocking. Given the prominence of the main cast (and numerous scenes with all-female extras)--did they all agree to work for free?

I can't believe it only cost $16 million. The costuming is pretty ugly but looks expensive.

And watching it now streaming in high-def, the clumsy green screen location work really shows at times.

[quote] I suspect a lot of you will blame its failure on poor Meg Ryan.

I don't.

Diane English is a hack.

I also remember her accepting an award for Murphy Brown in the 90s and it was an award ceremony where they served dinner. She brought the piece of chicken they served her to the podium to make a joke about how tough it was to chew. What a tacky bitch.

Every remake of "The Women" from 1956 "The Opposite Sex" to that horrible 2008 dreck (that was 15 years in development if you can believe it), has failed. None ever captured the magic of 1939 film in same way that 2002 revival of play just didn't it the mark either.

Large part of problem is that women's lives have changed so much since late 1930's. No one calls themselves "Mrs. Stephen Haines", or refers to herself as being "overhauled" in order to keep a wandering husband.

Advice Mary Haines gets from her mother Mrs. Moorehead (turn a blind eye to a wandering husband's escapades) was beginning to sound dated in 1940's when divorce was harder to get, and certainly is now when it's rather a simple process.

Original film was toned down significantly for 1939 film with a good amount of editing to get past studio suits and censors. In play it was Sylvia Fowler who was having an affair, that just was never going to fly in Hollywood.

Hillary Clinton was publicly vilified for doing pretty much what Mary Haines did, going back to (or not leaving) a man who insulted (serially) his wife in public. That alone gives you an idea of just how dated "The Women" is to modern audiences.

You also just don't have comedy screenwriting like this anymore, nor actresses that can pull off.

kind of wish we could've seen the husband at the end just to see what all the fuss was about

Better clip...

R16: At this point, my beloved, drag queens are the only who can pull this type of delivery off.

R17

Seeing the men in question didn't help "The Opposite Sex" none, it still bombed.

Debi Mazar as the manicurist? I hate her New Yorker than thou ‘tude in real life.

This remake was shit.

How would you cast the remake to the remake today?

How about Ellen Page as Mary?

Oh..... wait....

Luce estate is very protective of works contained, and given how both recent theater revival along with film weren't exactly huge success, don't think there will be another of either for a very long time.

Are women still beastly towards each other? Yes, but they don't want it called out in media for god and world to see.

except for leachman the cast is horrid !!!!!!!!!

Actually Debi Mazar sort of nailed the Mimi Olivera/manicurist role. Well at least was close as you were going to get to decent NYC accent.

Mimi Olivera didn't do many films, but she was in Marie-Antoinette which starred Norma Shearer.

This scene would be cancelled right out today!

Mannered and hammy acting aside, Mrs. Moorehead's advice to her daughter would draw howls of protest today.

That being said do women on Park Avenue (or other society matrons) still put up with husbands who wander? Yes, they do, but things aren't so nearly cut and dry.

r20 see r8

Cynthia Nixon doing Mary Haines.....

R29

See my ass and kiss it in Macy's 34th street windows at Christmas time...

Let's not.

I made Howard pay for what he wants. You made him pay for what he doesn't want....

Sylvia Fowler was so busy minding other people's business including stirring pot between Mary and Stephen she just didn't have a clue. This even after that model at fashion show told her she'd seen Howard make eyes at another woman, "and she's not bad looking either".

No bones…zips up the back.

You just cannot remake things like this today. The writing, acting.. all of it just is from another time. For same reasons you don't see remakes of screw ball comedies either. It just doesn't work today, and you'd be hard pressed to find actors and actresses that could remotely begin to pull it off.

There's a level of wit and sophistication with these sort of films that largely has vanished from much of American audiences.

r26 That actress's name was Dennie Moore, not Mimi whatever. No one played Olga the manicurist better, although Alice Pearce was awfully good in The Opposite Sex remake.

Debi Masur was shit in the 2008 version, but she fit right in with the rest of the cast.

R36

Thank you for the correction!

I like Cynthia Nixon, but I saw that 2001 stage revival. She, and most of the production, were godawful. She made some very strange acting choices, starting with her voice.

Even Isaac Mizrahi's period costumes were mostly wrong.

I remember liking Kristen Johnston, at least.

Wow, Dennie Moore does a great cockney accent playing opposite a very butch looking Katherine Hepburn in Sylvia Scarlett.

Guess that old studio system of various coaches for anything under sun including voice and accents paid off.

Now that have been set straight on who the maicurist was in The Women, take it back; Dennie Moore had a very good career (such as it was) and life.

It’ll be out tomorrow Mrs Prowler- hehe

FOWLER!

I loved that everyone was called Pet, Kiddo or Kitten. The only nickname we have for everyone is “Betch.”

I willfully avoided that version of The Women. I adore the 1939 version with Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford so much that I could never watch such a piss poor remake with any enjoyment.

R26. Dennie Moore was a lesbian in real life.

I think this thread is perfectly ridiculous.

Crystal is supposed to be a home-wrecking whore with class. Joanie could balance the classy and slutty sides of Crystal in a way Eva, gorgeous as she might be, could not.

From what one has read Little Mary was booed in theaters during The Women's original run.

It's not hard to see why; she treats Crystal Allen as if she had her number in spades.

Little Mary corrects Crystal's diction (oh.. cooperate...), hands her that sponge when requested as if it and her step-mother were contaminated, then proceeds to tell the former Miss Allen her husband no longer is in love with his wife... The coup de grâce is that "and another thing, I think this bathroom is perfectly ridiculous" followed up with that curtsy and turning her back on Crystal saying "Good-bye" as if Little Mary was the Queen of England taking her leave...

Little Mary doesn't even treat the household servants that way, and certainly wouldn't her mother or grandmother. But real reason many in audiences didn't like Little Mary was it took not even one of the "women" but a young girl to light a fire under Mary Haines's behind. Little Mary carefully, effectively and very efficiently spills the dirt on Crystal (she'd been taking down notes regardless of saying she didn't understand grown-ups on telephone), finally prompting her mother to leave Pity Me Pines Hotel and go get her man back.

Little Mary did what neither Mrs. Moorehead or Miriam Aaron could accomplish.....

I watched it out of morbid curiosity several years ago. It really was that bad....and Eva Mendes in the Joan Crawford role was just the worst of many offenses. I'm not even sure how the idea even sounded good while drunk at a dinner party...shocked it was actually put into production.

Now that I thini of it, Meg Ryan sure loved to play women hung up on their exes. She probably has a Homeland board dedicated to Dennis Quaid.

Crystal Allen was a home wrecking tart, but with class? I think surely not....

As clips above clearly illustrate she was a predatory she wolf hot on the trail of a meal ticket. Stephen Haines was just the sort of patsy for a girl like Crystal Allen. He only believed in honorable relationships with women which is how Crystal got him to marry her once Mary Haines removed the protection of his legal marriage.

Women like Crystal Allen use sex to get love and whole lot of other things. Women like Mary Moorehead have sex out of love with their husbands which is not the same thing at all.

Everyone tries to tell Mary Haines this, but she's too busy nursing her two for a nickle pride. And where did it get her? On the train for Reno....

It would have been different if Mary didn't love her husband. She like plenty of other Park Avenue wives then and now would have turned a blind eye to their husbands extramarital but kept an eye on things to see it didn't threaten the status quo. Long as they were still the wife with inside track, that's what matters.

Crystal Allen confronts Mary Haines with that fact; "Look, what have you got to kick about? You have the name, position, money...."

Mary Haines confronts Crystal Allen as if she's some duchess who has discovered the duke has been rolling around with a chamber maid. She's so high, mighty and noble, totally expecting to put Crystal Allen in her place. Obviously she didn't know girls from the street like Crystal have a whole other agenda.

This was one of the key points of "The Women" and why many feminists and others hated the play and film. Mary Haines was presented with a choice, kept quiet about her husband's affair or have it out with him and possibly risk losing her husband and home.

When Mary Hanies walks into that dressing room and announces "I'm Mrs. Stephen Haines..." it was as if she expected Crystal Allen to bow into a curtsy, then start blubbing and begging for forgiveness.

You have to love that scene in clip R50

Norma Shearer pulled out all the stops of mannered and hammy acting from a bygone era (early part of century), and that confrontation scene with Crystal Allen is one of them...

After Sylvia leaves that dressing room Mary debates for a moment, then pulling herself up to her full height marches out of her dressing room and into Crystal's like the Queen Mary in full steam.

I like Bette Davis way of handing things better!

Reading obituary for Sydney Guilaroff came upon this interesting tidbit:

"The following year Guilaroff's diplomacy was tested when he worked with both Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford (plus an all-female cast) in The Women. Never having worked with both ladies at once, Guilaroff solved the dilemma by giving Crawford a curly permanent, leaving more time to work with Shearer. Crawford said tartly afterwards: "Norma wore her usual `classic simplicity' do, which took two hours to achieve each morning." Rosalind Russell added, "I was also supposed to have access to Sydney, but he got rid of that by having me wear a hat throughout the picture. At the time I thought it was a divine idea. When I saw the film I realised I was sloughed off."

Now that one thinks about it, Sylvia Fowler was always wearing a hat in "The Women", but never really thought about it, now I know why...

Norma Shearer was the epitome of plain. Having her stand right next to a glamazon like Joan Crawford certainly was a choice.

The producers should've cast 2 actresses more equally matched in beauty (and height). Actually, two better choices were relegated to supporting roles: Rosalind Russell and Paulette Goddard.

Norma was the epitome of Hollywood glamour in the 1930s. She was perfect as the young society maven. Crawford was the one who was too old to play a homewrecker. Why wound Stephen Haines jeopardize his position to marry a middle-age hussy?

I am not the greatest fan of Joan Crawford as an actress, but she was perfection on this. See the perfum counter scene. . Norma Shearer was terrible, she made me root for Crystal. I don’t know how much rhe script, as written, was ambiguous in this respect. I have seen this movie countless times but always fast forward Norma main scenes.

Originally Claudette Colbert was supposed to be cast as "Mrs. Stephen Haines" in film "The Women", but MGM purchased the rights as a vehicle for Norma Shearer who was then one of the reining Queens of Hollywood.

Joan Crawford's famous quip about how Norma Shearer always got best roles because she was "fucking the boss", referring to Irving Thalberg who was head of production at MGM and Shearer's husband.

There were those who felt Norma Shearer "First Lady of MGM" or not, was a bit past it to play Mrs. Stephen Haines. Her manner of acting was considered dated by some, and some other quibbles.

As things stood Irving Thalberg died in 1936 leaving Norma Shearer "unprotected" if you will. She did The Women and a hand full of other films, but by early 1940's she was done, and retired in 1942.

What is sad is how quickly Norma Shearer fell into obscurity once she retired, this long before her death. The "First Lady of MGM" ended her days at Motion Picture Country Home, where among younger workers and others she was largely unknown. An older actress who was also living at the place quipped "she was once the Queen of Hollywood, now she's living here with us..." or words to that affect. Likely referring to fact Norma Shearer was living in basically a nursing home instead of being cared for at home in some grand estate or other home.

Despite her vast body of work, NS is most remembered for two film roles; Marie-Antoinette and The Women.

Norma's greatest contribution came in the early 30s in which she seamlessly made the transition from silent films to talking pictures. Many young actresses of the day followed her lead and imitated her as best they could.

Here she is making the moves on Clark Gable in A Free Soul (1931). Her open sexuality was condemned by the Catholic Church and other religious organizations. Movies like this led to the infamous Hays Code, which cracked down on depictions of sex in movies until the 1960s.

If nothing else Norma Shearer should have won an award for training those cross eyes of hers....

^Training them to do what? Continue to look crossed?

She was the best cross-eyed actress until Streisand and Karen Black came along.

Like Norma gives a rat's ass.

You were always just a cheap slut weren't you Joan?

Both the original Clare Boothe Luce stage play and the 1940 film adaptation, which is significantly different from the original, were fun, smart and highly entertaining. The chance that you were going to get a third production that good out of the same property weren't that good, especially when they insisted on bringing it forward to the present day, which is kind of like rebooting "Jane Eyre" in a 21st century Seattle suburb.

r62 That's from a 1926 silent film called Lady of the Night, in which Norma had a double role as a streetwalker and a society debutante. Crawford, in her first job at MGM, worked as her double in some scenes.

Here's Norma and Joan, who is on the right.

Meg Ryan’s hatchet job of a facelift was the star.

I couldn’t look at anything else

They needed more time to rehearse. The acting seemed so amateurish

Did it have a fashion show?

In original Luce play when pregnant Edith Potter becomes nauseous at luncheon Sylvia quips "I can't figure out if you're careless or Catholic.."

That was one more thing which was changed in film. Sylvia just glances down at Edith's belly and says "what a bore" to former's remark that smoked oysters make her "green".

Joan de Beauvoir de Havilland (Joan Fontaine) is one we haven't torn apart yet. So I'll open the floor....

Have always found her range rather limited. Rebecca, The Women, even Suspicion all seemed to have the same stock range of emotions from Ms. Fontaine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are the two sensational character actresses who play Mary's maid and cook and have that long scene together ever credited anywhere? I don't believe their names appear in the film's credits or anywhere else.

Dennie Moore originated the role of Mrs. Van Daam in The Diary of Anne Frank on Broadway, the role which garnered Shelley Winters her first Oscar.

It's truly unbelievable to think that The Women wasn't even nominated for any Oscars. Were Oscars given for screenplays based on other sources back then? I suppose nothing was going to beat Gone With the Wind. But I think either Roz Russell or Mary Boland should have won Best Supporting Actress over Hattie McDaniel. Sorry, Hattie.

Muriel Hutchison (Jane the maid) was credited.

Mary Cecil: Maggie the Haines family cook at their UES home was credited.

"You know, the first man that can think up a good explanation how he can be in love with his wife and another woman is gonna win that prize they're always giving out in Sweden."

Ester Dale: Ingrid, Haines family cook at their Long Island home was not credited.

THank you for identifying those wonderful actresses, r72 and r73, and now I'm embarrassed to admit I recognize their names form the credits....

Now, was Ingrid the country cook the one with the famous Pancakes Barbara?

MGM basically trawled their lot for actresses to appear in The Women. There were just too many parts for even remotely everyone to receive credit.

Butterfly McQueen wasn't credited (am almost sure that had something to do with her being a "Negro" actress).

Margaret Dumont played a "Mrs. Wagstaff", but those scenes were cut.

R71

The Women was not considered a very serious film when released. In fact there was some serious competition for 1939 Oscars...

Dark Victory

Gone With The Wind

Wuthering Heights

Good-bye Mr. Chips

Love Affair

The Wizard of Oz

Babes In Arms

Future MGM star Ruth Hussey plays the officious secretary Miss Trimmerback to Stephen Haines who reads out some of the terms of the divorce to Mary before she departs for Reno.

Besides Norma Shearer already had an Oscar nomination year before for Marie-Antoinette. She didn't win, but still....

R75

Yes, that's her....

She asks what sort of "goo" is wanted for Mr. Haines desert that night. Reply comes back "pancakes Barbara". The cook moans that it will put ten or whatever pounds on Mr. Haines. She further goes on that his "Adonis figure" won't last without some help from the kitchen....

Jada Pinkett Smith, not a lesbian, but you played one in this movie

Interesting to think of Rosalind Russell languishing around the studio lot for years as a miscast leading lady of serious drama until this film unleashed her comedic powers.

And I guess the role of Miriam Aarons was a sort of consolation prize for Paulette Goddard after losing out on Scarlett. The Women was also a turning point in her career to leading roles.

For that matter, Joan Fontaine was only a year away from landing the starring role of the 2nd Mrs. deWynter.

Whereas The Women really marked the beginning of the end for Norma and Joan at MGM< with Hedy, Lana and Greer nipping at their heels.

Ruth Hussey is perhaps best remembered as the photographer in film "The Philadelphia Story".

She did have a pretty good acting career, but more importantly a wonderful personal and family life. Lived to age 93 passing on in 2005.

r70 = Olivia de Haviland

Is Nancy Blake, the lady authoress with the "frozen assets", a veiled portrait of a 1930s dyke?

"But I think either Roz Russell or Mary Boland should have won Best Supporting Actress over Hattie McDaniel. Sorry, Hattie."

I hope you catch your death of dampness!

This was the first movie where I noticed Meg R was beginning to well and truly mess up her face.

Meg's character (Mary's) arc in THE WOMEN is all about... her hair.

She starts out wearing long, crazy, unruly curls. It's only after Mary decides to find herself (and ultimately, win back her husband's love) that she starts wearing it flat, straight (ironed or pressed or blown out).

It's not much of a performance. But Meg really does have a stellar head of hair.

We've overlooked Miss Hedda Hopper as Dolly DePuyster.

R85

Yes, Nancy Blake on stage and screen was drawn as a lesbian far as things would allow.

R86

You're out of your head!

Ms. Hattie McDaniel ran circles acting wise as "Mammy" in GWTW round Roz Russell or Mary Boland in TW.

As noted in linked Wiki article above there was some serious dramatic competition for 12th Academy Awards, and Hattie McDaniel beat out GWTW co-star Olivia de Havilland (Melanie Hamilton), and Geraldine Fitzgerald who played Isabella Linton in Wurthering Heights. Also in the running that year was Edna May Oliver for Drums Along the Mohawk as Mrs. McKlennar (her only Oscar nomination), and Maria Ouspenskaya – Love Affair as Grandmother Janou.

Gone With The Wind alone was going to make for very stiff competition.

Yikes R88 Meg was really serving up the rubber faced/Beverly Hills hausfrau/Caitlyn look...

I suspect MGM did not want Roz nominated as a Supporting Actress when they realized her leading lady potential after The Women, though she'd have been unlikely to beat Hattie McDaniel and Olivia deHavilland, anyway.

But then I believe Roz left MGM after The Women. I wonder why she wasn't kept by MGM? Probably not Louis B Mayer's type.

Rosalind Russell actually had bona fide acting credentials, and was considered a beauty in her youth.

Universal signed Ms. Russell first, but didn't use her much if at all, and either way she wasn't happy. MGM tested Ms. Russell and made her a better offer, so she managed to get out from Universal, and that was that.

MGM primarily cast Roz Russell in "lady like" roles and used her to keep Myrna Loy in check. If you've seen the "Thin Man" series of films, along with others such as Mr. Blanding Builds His Dream House, you know Myrna Loy had the great lady but also comedy thing as her shtick at MGM so to speak.

RR went back to Broadway in 1940's but also did films as well. She earned four Oscar nominations, and likely would have won Best Supporting Actress for her role in Picnic (1955), but Ms. Russell refused to be placed in that category (co-staring....), so the nomination didn't happen. More is the pity because many predicted she would have won.

Wiki says....

R89

Hedda Hopper actually was an actress in Hollywood before launching her mud slinging gossip columnist career.

Overall the woman was a nasty piece of work, and it's amazing she wasn't strangled or otherwise murdered but lived until age 80.

At some point, MGM wanted to produce an all-male remake:

[quote]Like the female version, this would have involved an all masculine cast and the plot would have involved a man (Jeffrey Hunter) who recently discovers among his friends that his wife is having an affair with another man (Earl Holliman) and after going to Reno to file for divorce and begin a new life, he later finds himself doing what he can to rectify matters later on when he discovers that the other man is only interested in money and position and he decides to win his true love back again. Although nothing ever came of this, it would have consisted of the following ensemble: Jeffrey Hunter (Martin Heal), Earl Holliman (Christopher Allen), Tab Hunter (Simon Fowler), Lew Ayres (Count Vancott), Robert Wagner (Mitchell Aarons), James Garner (Peter Day), Jerry Mathers (Little Martin), James Stewart (Mr. Heal), Ronald Reagan (Larry), Troy Donahue (Norman Blake), and Stuart Whitman (Oliver, the bartender who spills the beans about the illicit affair).

Now, THAT would be interesting to watch. Especially if they included some homoerotic tones.

r97, that can't be serious?! What's the source of this?

Yes, it was true. MGM toyed with idea in 1960 of doing an all male cast remake of "The Women" called "Gentleman's Club". Rest as is above which is copied from Wiki page for 'The Women"....

They really thought Tab Hunter could handle the Sylvia Fowler counterpart role in that all-male version??

Killer gams...

Roddy McDowall would've been better in the Sylvia Fowler role.

"Like the female version, this would have involved an all masculine cast "

*

Jerry Mathers would have supplied the Beaver

They would have been all male but not necessarily all masculine.

Tab Hunter actually would have been perfect for the Joan Fontaine role.

I think we missed out on a camp classic

Norma Sherarer being old fashioned worked in the original because you bought that her husband was her life. The remake was just played for hype and had neither heart nor wit.

" Stephen, we can't go on this way..."

"It's wrong, shockingly wrong"

[quote] Roddy McDowall would've been better in the Sylvia Fowler role.

Genius!

^ Shearer. I can’t type for anything today.

George Hurrell, who did the PR photography for The Women (the MGM version, obviously), said Russell and Paulette Godard were the only two were professional about it. Crawford and Shearer hated being photographed together. One day, he and his group of studio technicians waited and waited for the two headliners to appear for a session. Someone went outside to see what was wrong, and saw Shearer in her car, circling the block. Right behind her was Joan Crawford’s car, also circling the block. Shearer wouldn’t come into the studio until Crawford did, and Crawford wouldn’t come in until Shearer did. The impasse was settled when one of the men stood in the street and stopped both cars.

One actress we haven't talked about from the original film is Phyllis Povah, who played the perennially pregnant (though never visibly so, God forbid!) Edith Potter and is the sole actress MGM imported from the Broadway cast.

Edith is a role that really required a particular physical type (let's just remind ourselves that she's portrayed as a cow chewing her cud in the brilliant opening credits). And Povah comes through all the way, mostly providing comedic support for Roz Russell in some of her funniest scenes.

Phyllis Povah = Mary-Robin Redd

Jada made it watchable. Just kidding. She sucked.

[quote]Ruth Hussey is perhaps best remembered as the photographer in film "The Philadelphia Story".

She and Kate Hepburn have the cuntiest back and forth in the film.

Ruth Hussey: Elizabeth Imbrie, my friends call me Liz.

Kate Hepburn: Of which you've many, I'm sure.

Hilarious.

Shirley Booth played the supporting role of Liz Imbrie in the Broadway premiere of The Philadelphia Story opposite Kate Hepburn.

Shirley Booth then went on to two critically acclaimed starring roles on Broadway in The Time of the Cuckoo, which Hepburn filmed as Summertime, and The Desk Set, which Hepburn filmed as Desk Set.

Did Hepburn campaign to play Lola in the film of Come Back, Little Sheba? I wonder what Booth thought of Hepburn?

Who plays Crystal’s roommate in “The Opposite Sex”? She’s not listed in the credits.

Not sure if you mean Virginia Grey, r116, who's Crystal's cute blonde chum at the perfume counter and is in that one scene in the stock room with Butterfly McQueen. I don't think she's her roommate, though.

Grey was an MGM contract player appearing in scores of their films in the 1930s and 40s, rarely in lead roles, mostly in B films. In1939 she also appeared in Idiot's Delight as one of the chorines backing up Clark Gable in Puttin' on the Ritz. And I think Gable was rumored to have a long time affair with her.

Ooops. Just reread your post, r116.

I think you're referring to Carolyn Jones, who, of course, later played Morticia Addams and was the first wife of Aaron Spelling.

Cool. I knew I knew that face.

Thanks r118

When I asked Booth about Hepburn, r115, she said that Kate was a "doozie" and that she was "gonna cut that fucking bitch". Then she quickly changed the subject.

I hope she isn't the second one on the left who's strap breaks at 0:48, r117.

Here you all go. A clip from this movie.

Minor correction...

Both Phyliss Povah *and* Marjorie Main were asked to star in film "The Women" who also appeared in OBC productoin.

Is Meg eating a stick of butter (dipped into chocolate syrup and sugar) at R122?

Comedy GOLD.

Virginia Grey lived a long life and had an extended career in Hollywood. She as also a lapsed Mormon who went back to the religion of her youth and found comfort.

r116 Carolyn Jones played Crystal's roommate in The Opposite Sex. Her character's name was Pat.

Jones of course would become more famous as Morticia on the original Addams Family TV series. She died tragically young of cancer.

Carolyn Jones is one of those actors many likely only know from television (The Addams Family) which is a shame. The lady had substantial body of work on stage, screen and of course television.

R127 she was also married to Aaron Spelling!

I love Marjorie Main from the original(and really everything she appeared in) who took her part in the new one? I haven’t watched it, because I feel The Women is one of those movies that is perfect and should be left alone.

R128

If you've never seen the film "Johnny Come Lately" starring James Cagney, Hattie McDaniel and Marjorie Main strongly suggest...

Ms. Main plays a brothel owner called "Gas House" Mary McGovern.

See to recall some talk that Marjorie Main moved in with another woman later in life after she retired from show business. But it's not mentioned on her Wiki page.

Virginia Grey is the tallest chorine in the number, carrying Clark out by his feet as it ends.

If only Marie Dressler had lived a few more years, she would have played Lucy, Marjorie Main's role, in The Women. Or would she played The Countess de Lave?

Mary Boland as the Countess de Lave is so brilliant and deserves some special love here. Like Roz Russell, and really all of the actresses in the film, she shows no vanity in making a fool of herself and is pure comedy gold.

Can you just imagine what the hair and makeup rooms were like in the early morning hours before filming began each day? I also wonder if the stars ever got a preview of what the other actresses would be wearing in their scenes together and if that ever became an issue. Personally, I think Adrian did a stellar job in featuring or "equalizing" the look of each actress in every scene.

Marjorie Main and Spring Byington were longtime lovers.

" His first Broadway appearance was in 1970 in "Soon" with Richard Gere and Nell Carter."

What was that show?

Sorry, R136 is in wrong thread.

Disregard and carry on.....

Interesting Spring Byington's Wiki page has this quote from Marjorie Main...

"A number of Hollywood historians have claimed that Byington was a lesbian.[9][10][11][12] Actress Marjorie Main's biographer Michelle Vogel has noted that Main and Byington were reported widely as having had a long-term relationship.[13] When asked about Byington's sexual orientation, Main observed: "It's true, she didn't have much use for men.""

Yet Ms. Main's page doesn't say anything at all about Spring Byington romantically or otherwise.

On another note rather amazing when you think about it that Marjorie Main became such a successful actress. I mean that voice!

Bette Midler is only in two scenes and gets one with Meg Ryan where they smoke pot. Bette plays a Hollywood agent and there is a joke about how Michael Douglas left her.

It was nice to cast Candice Bergen as Meg's mother since they played the same way back in Rich and Famous. But that scene where Mary visits her mother after she had had a face lift is full of irony given Meg's botoxed face.

I worked on this piece of shit, and I am embarrassed about it, so I do not include it on my resume. I was a huge fan of the original, and of AB. I barely interacted with her, and this had very little resemblance to the glorious black and white, minus the fashion show.

R134, What are you made up for? The Seeing Eye?

(pardon, I think I may still be drunk from last night, and your post made me think of that line)

I saw this remake in the theater with a group of friends, all gay men. I think we were all supposed to love it, and some in the group did. For me it was so dull that I just wanted it to be over. It was not entertaining at all. To keep my gay card among this bunch I had to fake that I liked it.

r141, who or what is AB?

I think he/she means Annette Bening.

I'm not sure why people upthread think Bening looked bad in THE WOMEN. I liked her longer hair and I thought her clothes were sharp.

I've never been interested in seeing The Women remake but if that photo at r145 is any indication, I can see I've not missed anything. While those 3 ladies are all nicely dressed, there's nothing in their clothes, hair or makeup to give us any clue on who they're playing. and absolutely no style or whimsy. It all looks so stark and humorless. I mean, I don't expect Bening to wear feathered hats or anything but could there be something a little fun about her look? And Jada.....oh dear.

Some things cannot/should not be "updated".

As already mentioned, I think the only way you can do this material now is with a high sense of camp.

Either go all out and do a drag queen version or find the right director who knows how to treat the material and cast it appropriately.

ACT in Seattle did a production of The Women in the mid 2000s that was pretty good...they had a decent director and mostly got the tone right. It was a lot of fun though it's a loooooong ass play. And, expensive to do with that huge cast and wardrobe. I think ACT did a special fundraiser just to pay for all the costumes required.

Anita Loos and Jane Murfin (not to mention George Cukor) really spiffed up Clare Booth Luce's original script, so if one knows the film, seeing that play now, one can't help but be severely disappointed.

I'll never forget the first time I saw the original film in 1973, it was in that revival house on Broadway around 68th St. that doesn't exist any more. The audience, which was mostly gay, of course, went wild. I don't know why I'd never seen the film on TV in my childhood in the 1960s....were the TV rights withheld or something back then? I'd also never seen Norma Shearer in a film......just too, too divine! Those opening credits with all the ladies portrayed as various animals.....squeeeeee!

And later that spring I saw the Broadway revival with Alexis Smith (as Sylvia), Dorothy Loudon (as Edith), Rhonda Fleming (as Miriam), Jan Miner (as the Countess), a rather dull Kim Hunter (as Mary) and Myrna Loy (as Mary's mother). It was great fun but not nearly as good as the film. A woefully miscast Lainie Kazan had been fired (as Crystal) in rehearsals and replaced with a soap opera actress whose name I've forgotten.....maybe....Marie Wallace?

[quote]And, expensive to do with that huge cast and wardrobe.

I saw it at a small theater in Hollywood (99-seat Equity waiver place) and they even did the full fashion show with incredible period designs.

I'd love to see some photos of that production, r151.

Looking up the play on wikipedia, I discovered that in the original 1936 Broadway production the part of the daughter Little Mary, was played by Charita Bauer. She would of course grow up to be one of the first major soap opera stars, as Bert Bauer on The Guiding Light. While another future soap star, Mary Stuart played the part of "First Hairdresser." Other than them, and Marjorie Main, the only other actor appearing in the original production that would become an enduring "star" was Arlene Francis. Many of the others had long and distinguished careers, but aren't names that many would remember, even ten years later, let alone today.

Unforgivable. Glad it suffered before being put down.

The 1939 film varies very little from the play. Same plot and much of the dialogue is exactly the same. They did cut a couple scenes from the play including a section in Edith's hospital room after she gave birth but much of that dialogue was reused in other scenes. As adaptations of plays go, it was very, very faithful.

Produced by Mick Jagger!

There seemed to be an effort to make Meg look tall in this company.

Great Performances did show the 2001 revival, but don't think entire thing is on YT or anything.

Yes, scene in hospital with Edith giving birth is hilarious. The African American nurse going at pampered women like Edith asking her does she know what's like to give birth on cold kitchen floor.....

Another clip...

I believe an actress named Margalo Gillmore was Mary Haines in the original Broadway production. Elder Dataloungers might know her as Mrs. Darling on Broadway and in the first televised performance of Peter Pan starring Mary Martin, or at least recognize her voice from the OBC recording..

The role of Crystal Allen was considerably beefed up for Joan Crawford in the film by Loos and Murfin. It was far more of a supporting role on Broadway originally. There's an infamous line in the play uttered by Sylvia Fowler when she spies the nude Crystal getting out of her bath: "Why, Crystal, I always thought you were a natural blonde!" Obviously, it had to be cut from the Cukor film, and not only because Crawford wasn't a blonde.

The movie is flawed, but it introduced the concept of “the vault” to me and mine.

From the movie…

What do you mean, she doesn't know?

What is wrong with you two?

We're in the vault, she's not? Drag her ass into the vault.

The "careless or Catholic" and "I always thought you were a natural blonde" lines are interesting.

I always wondered what witty lines had to be jettisoned to appease the censors.

Carrie Fisher is only in one scene and she does nothing special apart from wearing sweatpants on a cross-trainer. And she looks small compared to Annette Bening.

I *hated* the fashion show in the original film.

It was such a waste of time. And that was a very bad time for women's fashion, especially the stupid hats.

R164 Well, it's easy to skip forward and not see it while the rest of us camp connoisseurs revel in its divine tackiness.

I thought the Danish teacher or whatever she was was a wasted character. she only had a use in the scene copied from the 1939 film where she was telling the Cloris Leachman character quotes from the off-screen argument between Meg and the husband.

R43

Don't forget "lamb"

More to R48

Little Mary calls Crystal "something awful". Then proceeds to tell Crystal that because her father is a gentleman he never speaks against any woman "even something like you"....

Little Mary addresses her step-mother by her Christian name, something no well brought up young girl did in 1930 when speaking to an adult besides perhaps a servant. "Listen Crystal, Daddy doesn't think you're so wonderful anymore..."

When you look at the writing and Virginia Weidler's acting in that bathroom scene with Crystal the former holds her own if not takes the prize. Little Mary out classed a grown she devil woman

Virginia Weidler was a truly talented child star and followed up THE WOMEN with an equally impressive performance in THE PHILADELPHIA STORY as Katharine Hepburn's younger sister.

But she grew rather homely as she became a teenager, looking a bit like a young Mary Wickes and MGM didn't know what to do with her.

R169

It was all for the best anyway. Not only was Virginia Weidler aging out of those child roles she once played, tastes were changing and those sort of characters just weren't being written much if at all.

Ms. Weidler retired from films at 16, married and had two children. She was one of those actors who once they were done with Hollywood, they were *done*. VW gave no interviews and generally just faded into the background, which one guesses is how she wanted things to be.

It was a little corny. The original movie was for the time...the remake didn't fit in 2008. Even the original comes off as silly, but I prefer that one.

Film "The Women" was released on same day WWII broke out in Europe (1 September 1939) IIRC.

It was never meant to be a serious film, but just a delicious adaption of a play that was doing brisk business on Broadway.

A world with fewer or absent of men was something American women were going to get used to for the duration. And of course we know now what they couldn't then; old studio system of Hollywood would be on it's last legs not long after WWII ended, then die.

Norma Shearer's career was pretty much over while those of Joan Crawford and Roz Russell were just beginning.

Joan Crawford's career started at MGM in 1925, so she was hardly just beginning in 1939. She was growing tired of her roles at the studio in the 1940s and would jump ship to Warners in a desperate attempt to revive her career. She was right and won the Oscar for Mildred Pierce in 1945.

Roz Russell's career in movies began in 1934, so she was no newcomer either. However, The Women uncovered her comedic talent and her career was born again in comedy roles, although she continued to do drama as well. While Crawford ended her career sinking into psycho-biddy roles in the 60s, Roz was still doing quality pictures like Gypsy, A Majority of One and The Trouble With Angels.

Norma Shearer had her eyes on retirement in 1939, having worked in films since 1920. After The Women she made Escape, in which she gave the best performance of her career. She then made two poorly received comedies to fill out her contract, although her career could've gone another 10 years if she had wanted to do mature roles.

The only funny moment in the remake was when Meg Ryan wouldn't shut up and Bette Midler said, "Oh good, a talker." Or something like that. Otherwise it was a terrible film.

I liked Meg's reaction to the betrayal by Annette. I rewatched the Cukor version and I was surprised at how much emotion is in it. Even Shearer is tolerable.

R173 That photo shows how miscast Crawford was. She looks OLDER than Norma.

Virginia Weidler was great in the film, but since she ended up leaving the business. I wonder how things would've been different if the original Broadway Little Mary, Charita Bauer, had followed the play to the movie. Would Charita have become a star? Would The Guiding Light have been such a success without Charita?

If you don't like the original film, don't sit next to me...you're dull and have no taste.

It's such a great film. All three leads are terrific (yes, the story centers on Mary but Crystal and Sylvia are just as vital to the story). Technically, Crawford was probably too old to play Crystal (why would Stephen dump Mary for a woman the same age?!?!) but she's really very good in this; playing a conniving tramp WAS right up her alley.

This is one of the few performances of Crawford's that I like. She is very good.

This was also the first film I ever saw her in (on a big screen at a theater revival), so I didn't really know what Crawford looked like, but when she popped up on the screen I thought, "Wow, this actress looks old for the young shopgirl seductress. And that hair is really hard and unflattering."

Okay, so out of morbid curiosity, I watched THE OPPOSITE SEX the other night. It's pretty grim and at 2 hours, feels endless. The songs are largely forgettable and just slow things down even more.

June Allyson and her fame remains a studio-era Hollywood mystery to me. She is a no-neck dwarf who can barely sing a little, dance a little, and act even less. (Weirdly, one of her songs is dubbed by another singer, but not the others.) She is the opposite of glamor and sex appeal (her hideous Helen Rose costumes don't help). In short, she makes Norma Shearer in the original look spectacular by comparison.

Is Delores Gray a great big transperson?

She's what we call big-boned, r180. And, oh dear, it's Dolores....with an o.

Charita Bauer...

"...and would jump ship to Warners in a desperate attempt to revive her career."

*

She didn't jump, r173...she was pushed.

Virginia...

The Opposite Sex is campy fun but no, it's a pale imitation of the original. Though Joan Collins as Crystal made sense...a YOUNG tramp on the make.

And, yeah, June Allyson's successful career is one of those great Hollywood mysteries....she's just so ooogy.

Joan Collins looks fab as Crystal--her body probably never looked better--but she can't dance or sustain an American accent, either. No matter. She's fun.

June Allyson was 39 when TOS was made, and looks every minute of it. The other wives look even older. And Meg Ryan was 47 when her version was made. How old were the main character's in the original play intended to be?

Crawford's age in the film isn't important if you consider the "tramp factor". Oh so good Mary, or the lusty, easy tramp, the attraction is obvious. Like Mae West said “When women go wrong, men go right after them.”

I like most any musical in technicolor (Metrocolor and Cinemascope), The Opposite of Sex is fun for the visuals and especially Jeff Richards.

June Allyson's success is because she was the everyday women. Not too glamorous yet not unkept.

June was the embodiment of the ideal American housefrau in the early 50s, two decades before feminism would change society forever. She had a spunky streak that was seen as adorable, but she always deferred to her husband as a good wife should to keep the family unit strong.

The original New York Times review praised her performance. Overall the critic didn't like the movie, especially Joan Collins. Here's Bosley Crowther's review from 1956:

ALTHOUGH Clare Boothe's "The Women" was staged about twenty years ago and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer filmed it in 1939, it has aged gracefully, to judge by "The Opposite Sex," the remake that arrived at the Capitol yesterday. Most of Miss Boothe's comedy-drama still drips vitriol and the fangs and claws of its decorative vixens are almost as terrifying as they were two decades ago. The venomous mixture of deadly females vs. deadlier females, sharp dialogue and songs is a surface inspection of a segment of Manhattan society rather than the deep dissection it once was.

One might not want to live in this plush "jungle" but the principals, who keep the catfights going briskly, make it an interesting place to visit.Although some aspects of the original investigation of the well-endowed Park Avenue-Broadway echelon have changed, "The Women" basically is still the story of "the jaded, frenetic women" whose meat is gossip and whose wine is divorce talk.It is still the soignée tale of Kay Hilliard, former singer, whose ten-year marriage to play-producer Steven Hilliard is the envy of one of her malicious, well-heeled friends.

The pointed chatter of beauty salons and bistros that eventually leads to the wreck of the marriage as well as several others, is still highlighted by some bitter satire. Although our heroine's happy home life finally is restored, it is, as has been noted, a feline carnival for the ladies before the villainesses get their comeuppances. Speaking of the ladies, it might be added that it is this corner's opinion that the lush wardrobes, enhanced by excellent color photography, provided for this covey of dames, is enough to drive distaff viewers to distraction.

Although the addition of five new songs by the team of Nicholas Brodszky and Sammy Cahn would seem out of place in a comedy of manners and mores, most of them are fitted neatly into the plot. June Allyson, who does an excellent job as indomitable Kay, gives a good, throaty rendition of "Now, Baby, Now."Joan Collins' performance as the two-timing chorus girl who snatches Miss Allyson's husband is eye-filling but hardly inspired. Dolores Gray, as the blonde gossipmonger who loses her mate to Ann Miller; Ann Sheridan, as a sympathetic, unattached writer who knows all about the opposite sex; Joan Blondell, in a brief role as the gentle matron who is making a career of motherhood, and Agnes Moorehead, as a brassy, much-married countess, lend spice to the palaver and punch to the battles.

The men—including Jeff Richards, as a handsome Reno cowpoke for whom the Misses Gray and Collins fall; Leslie Nielsen, as Miss Allyson's husband, and Sam Levene, as her agent—try desperately to color comparatively pallid assignments. There's no point in underestimating them. Despite commendable stints by producer David Miller and director David Miller, the ladies dominate "The Opposite Sex." It should be a treat for them.

^^ Actually I meant to say that overall the critic LIKED the movie, etc.

^^ I was surprised the Times misspelled Clair Booth's name.

As I stated upthread, the actresses whose careers really took off after filming THE WOMEN, were Paulette Goddard and Joan Fontaine. And, yes, it was a turning point for Roz Russell. Sadly, as brilliant as Joan Crawford was as Crystal. it didn't do anything for her career and was probably a major reason for LB Mayer's growing disenchantment with her. I love the way she looks in the film but I'm sure the studio all saw an aging vamp, especially compared to the new blood of Hedy Lamarr and Lana Turner.

Speaking of Turner....could she have made much of Crystal? I'd say no. There's something about Crawford's desperation that gives her performance a vitality a younger actress couldn't have mustered.

You don't find this number to be carnality personified, r185 and r186? Whatsa matter youse?

r193 June had all the sex appeal of Mamie Eisenhower.

I think June Allyson was just LUCKY. Or, maybe they did some demos and she appealed to...women? As an ideal to aspire to?

I can't imagine any heterosexual man getting too revved up over THAT!

Joan wasn't a brilliant actress but she was considerably better than Lana Turner who was just a Sex Bomb.

Turner couldn't have pulled off Crystal in 1939. Too young and callow still. Maybe actually the right age to play a young tramp on the make but she didn't have the chops.

Crawford brought a lot to that role including the fact she hated Shearer. They really were rivals.

R194 That's why she was so big in the 1950s. That was supposed to be the ideal average woman. Mamie was the ideal older woman and June the ideal younger lady.

"Man,I had the best whack off session this morning. Two words, buddy: June and Allyson. That wide, flat face of hers! Man, imagine that going down on you, up and down, that face so flat there's no nose to get in the way. And you can grab her hair, so stiff from that Aqua Net shot, and just shove her down there--"Take it, June! Take all of it, June!" Man, if she would only wear a diaper, my fantasy would be real!"

R197 That's the point, she wasn't that kind of icon. She was the ideal woman you marry, Marylin Monroe was the ideal woman you did those other things to.

Exactly, r198. June was the type that would do a vampy number in a Peter Pan collar.

If it hadn’t been for Lily Tomlin, [italic]Murphy Brown[/italic] would’ve gone off the air no later than 1994.