Anthony Perkin's smart letter to his despondent lover after a brief hookup

Dumb letter from a dumb man

[quote]Anthony Perkin's smart letter to his despondent lover after a brief hookup

Oh, dear.

Not to mention that the partner in a "brief hookup" is not a "lover."

It also sounds like Perkins had to be a cunt.

Passive-aggressive bottom who liked S&M.

Perkins sounds horrible.

I don't understand why you got the idea that Anthony Perkins was a cunt/horrible from this letter.

I found him to be intelligent and decent human being

[quote]Because you’re too intelligent to be just a salesperson in a boutique

Says the actor.

[quote]I don't understand why you got the idea that Anthony Perkins was a cunt/horrible from this letter.

Not from this letter

What’s writing a letter?

I want to write letters to myself and claim they're from famous people. Great grift idea! The dead can't respond and I'll make a tip money.

What’s French for ‘Asshole’?

Narcissist. Redundant, I know, as he was an actor.

What a horrible letter to send to someone.

He was a horrible man.

I'm sure George Maharis sent Thank You cards to all his Men's Room hook ups. It's called etiquette, people.

Was this before, after or during his beard marriage?

R15 Before. This was in 1970

What a jerk.

He's being highly manipulative in this letter..

Shaming the shop bottom while longing for him. Insufferable.

Fleshing things out a bit more with better link.

M. Loiseau et espouse

Their history,

But was the scarf vicuna?

R18 How was he being manipulative?!!

Tony was trying to help the young man to move on from his desperate unrequited love.

and knock some sense into him.

If you've ever read the bio Split Image: The Life of Anthony Perkins, Tony being a manipulative jerk seems to be the reoccurring theme throughout the book.

Patrick Loiseau looked like a young pretty French girl then, and has aged into a "pretty" looking older Frenchman.

Can only find same phrase over and over "Perkins has been described as one of the two great men in the life of French author Patrick Loiseau".

This tells me the infatuation was largely one sided, that young twink Patrick Loiseau fell hard for Anthony Perkins, and he in turn didn't exactly feel same. Worse having stoked the young man's fire was then (by letter above) attempting to turn heat down.

R26

Perhaps true, but we have to cut Anthony Perkins some slack, his mother did a job on him as a young boy.

R26 I've read it very recently and I didn't get that impression at all. He was a complicated man for sure but over all, he was a truthful genuine person.

And when he was manipulative, it wasn't harmful or malicious.

R28 is the troll who blames women for everything

Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

So so so gay….

R30 I'm not R28, but It's true that Anthony Perkins said that his mother molested him when he was a child.

From People magazine interview 1983:

"She wasn't ill-tempered or mean, just strong-willed, dominant... She controlled everything about my life, including my thoughts and feelings."

"She was constantly touching me and caressing me. Not realizing what effect she was having, she would touch me all over, even stroking the inside of my thighs right up to my crotch... [I] completely repressed what my mother was doing - blanked it out."

R31

Don't believe Tony Perkins suffered from NPD a bit, well maybe just a tad, but then again so do many other actors.....

Like many gay men of his generation, before and even after have always felt Tony Perkins was just totally confused by his lusts, and inability to have lived life openly and freely.

Anthony Perkins was gay, he knew it, his tricks and lovers knew it, so did friends, and so forth. The man also was driven to be a success in his acting, singing, performing career, all of which would have been derailed by "coming out" as it were. He lived openly in that odd menage a trois with Grover Dale and that woman on West 23rd street, and of course had lovers, cruised bars, bookstores, movie theaters, but again like so many other actors then confirmation of what was tittle-tattle likely would have been disastrous career wise.

[quote] So so so gay….

Not after I got through with him!

Hitch new he was perfect for someone as troubled as Norman.

R31 Not at all.

R33

Thank you - R28

R30 is likely a female, and that sex always is all girls together when it comes to defending one of their own.

As mothers or whatever females are often (at least historically) are primary care givers to infants and young children. Abuse of a child takes many forms not all leave visible scars. Indeed damage done may not surface at all until years later.

Main reason why so many mothers or just females resent psychiatry in any form because they feel mothers are always prosecuted or at least blamed for whatever mental problems their children develop.

Well, he was malicious and quite cruel to Timmy Everett, as well as some of his other lovers. Constant backstage fights, and flaunting his new love interest (Tab Hunter) in his face. This three-way love triangle between Tony, Tab and Timmy was the apparent cause of Everett's downfall and Tony's response to hjs suicide attempt just shows how truly ugly and self serving he really was.

Excerpt from Split Image:

Maila Nurmi, who later knew Everett in Hollywood, heard the whole story. "Tony tried to drive Timmy Everett to suicide," she says. "All the gay boys were after Timmy, who was very pretty and very delightful. When Timmy had been on Broadway, he'd had a lover's quarrel with Tony—Tony had rejected him or done something to break his heart—so Timmy Everett had slashed his wrists after a matinee and was hospitalized, clinging to life, hovering near death, and calling for Tony. They told Tony, who just said, 'That's his problem.' Timmy did survive, but he eventually died of a heart attack."

My father was sexually molested by his mother. He became a psychologist to figure himself out. He was wildly promiscuous, unfaithful to all four of his wives, and his "specialty" was what his mother made him do to her -- oral. He claimed to block these experiences out until he was in his 50s. Perkins's mother touching him would have definitely fucked him up and it is something a person has to live with -- that the one person who is supposed to unconditionally love and protect you , saw you as a sexual plaything.

R24

Exactly!

Turning out a young twink can be a delicate business. What an older gay (and by that mean just good or significant difference in age), may see as a bit of fun can been seen by the younger gay as something more. That's when trouble starts.

Much like young females (you said you loved me.......), having awakened certain feelings in a young gay it can be hard to turn them off, especially when they get clingy and start shopping for china patterns.

That letter was Anthony's Perkins way of letting Patrick Loiseau down gently as he could by telling it like it was. Back then at least when people largely still wrote letters it was often best to do such things that way. In person or over telephone could and often did involve unpleasant scenes, something Tony Perkins couldn't afford.

I've mentioned before about Chris Makos, who was lovers with both Tony and Andy Warhol, sitting in a room with Tony while Berry was in the kitchen. Tony kept telling Chris what he wanted done to him (kinky) and Makos just said "Whatever you say Norman." Creepy. Berry knew about his gay life and wasn't put off by it.

R39

“Timmy” Everett died of a heart attack brought on by drug use. Maila Nurmi (more better known as Vampira), a woman with a long list of troubles who may not be the best reliable source for information.

To wit

If you've ever read the bio Split Image: The Life of Anthony Perkins, you'll know Anthony was writing a letter to une shoppe top, not une shoppe bottom.

[quote]you wrote me that you refused all New Year’s Eve invitations to stay alone at home and think of me

That may be the most French thing I've ever read.

"Berry knew about his gay life and wasn't put off by it"

You have to wonder if in her cups Mrs. Anthony Perkins felt or knew she was being used as part of her husband's schemes or something.

Yes, she had everything that matters, the homes, children, the name... But it was fairly obvious that whatever "cure" marriage was supposed to bring for Tony Perkins it didn't happen. He still prowled for tricks and obviously had gay sex hence his catching the madness.

Berry put a brave face on things right up to the end, and afterwards. But again you have to wonder when alone what she made of things, especially after Tony's AIDs diagnoses became public, and his subsequent demise.

R41 Finally, someone got what Anthony Perkins letter really meant.

I like him even more after reading that letter, He wasn't cruel but he was straightforward and frank and wanted to knock some sense into this young man, basically, telling him to move on and not waste any more time on him in a kind intelligent way.

This is the Dutch singer Patrick Louiseau partnered up with in the '70s.

Looks like he had a type.

R46

Glad you picked that up!

La Saint-Sylvestre is probably more what Americans would consider Christmas Eve or Day, it's huge deal in France and many French speaking countries.

For someone to have turned down invitations from family and friends for Saint Sylvestre to wait or hope from someone special means something.

Judging by that car crash of a letter, Perkins seems very passive-aggressive to me.

I would have stayed in Paris too.

R49

That's PL's current husband.... See links above and below....

His real name is Wouter Otto Levenbach, which for many obvious reasons was given over to "Dave" for stage and other purposes.

When the boy tried to commit suicide, Perkins completely ignored him. Sounds cold but he (Perkins) did the right thing. Run!!

Did Berry know about this letter?

Tony Perkins problem is that not only was he gay, but everyone in the industry knew it, so he was always trying to keep up some sort of facade (or charade) if you will.

His other issue was something unrelated to sexuality, but happens frequently to many actors, TP became pigeon holed by Psycho film. For better or worse Anthony Perkins became known as "Norman Bates". This was a good and bad thing; Mr. Perkins obviously loved fame and fortune the character brought, and it helped him out last many 1950's film actors who vanished into near obscurity by 1970's or so. But Tony Perkins was a driven actor who still wanted to do good and other work.

R53

Could you have seen the headlines? Tony Perkins runs to beside of his (partner, lover, whatever, take your pick), after suicide attempt....

Media would have had a field day....

More to the point what happens next? Rushing to beside of someone mentally unhinged enough to attempt suicide over a break up is all very well, but that could mean getting entangled deeper into a relationship you just tried to end. So now you are stuck with someone out of fear they will try to kill themselves again over you? No, thank you...

R55 But so many were doing the same, ie bearding, having children. What made him different?

[quote]What’s French for ‘Asshole’?

Emmanuel Macron

R43, How is she not a reliable source? She knew him early on in his career before he became a famous actor, and had "dated" him for a little while. She even said he was a social climber, which he admitted.

One really, really, *REALLY* wishes Grover Dale would write a no holds bared tell all memoir including about Anthony Perkins.

My damn luck he will or has but will leave instructions similar to Roddy McDowall that thing won't be released to public for 100 years after his death. I don't have that kind of time......

R43 Exactly, Maila Nurmi isn't a reliable source at all. However, Timmy Everett was a self destructive unstable (drug addict, alcoholic and volatile) person long before he met Tony Perkins.

However, Timmy tried to commit suicide to get Tony's full attention and lure him back in. Tony was smart, he knew what Timmy was doing and didn't succumb to Timmy's manipulation. It worked. After that, Timmy got the message and moved on. It may sound cold and harsh and but sadly, some people use suicide as a tactic to manipulate and get the attention of the uninterested parties.

If he wasn't driven by his demons am surprised Anthony Perkins just didn't find some nice reliable hook-up partner, maybe set someone up in housekeeping and got his gay fix that way. He might have avoided catching the madness if he stayed true to a kept boy/fuck buddy and the missus.

Grover Dale was adorable and had a hot ass.

They were cute together. I would've loved to watch them fuck.

Always remember a drowning person can take down the strongest swimmer...

You've got to put a whole lot of gone between yourself and "crazy eyes". Someone desperate enough to commit suicide might also try other things ranging from blackmail up to making it "murder/suicide". Stay away......

In his day Grover Dale was very goodlooking, you can see why he and Tony Perkins hooked-up.

Grover, adorable,1960:

Wonder if George Chakiris tapped that ass!

Always thought Perkins was homely, and creepy- and "off"-looking. Even without the "Psycho" film character image. No thanks.

No gay man could go back once had THIS pussy!

Did some of you actually read the letter in question?

“However, even if you’ve only THOUGHT of writing me a letter like that, that’s good enough for me. All that is a long and complicated way for me to tell you that you must know that you don’t really ‘need’ me, as you’ve said in each of your letters — that makes no sense! You live in France and I live in America, and that’s not going to change any time soon. And when you wrote me that you refused all New Year’s Eve invitations to stay alone at home and think of me, that makes me sad — because it doesn’t correspond to the image I have of you at your best: INDEPENDENT, STRONG, AND ADULT."

TP is telling it like it was; he thought when hooking up with young Patrick Loiseau that the twink knew the deal and could handle what is common then (and now) in gay world. It was great fun but it was just one of those things as it were.

Tony Perkins had no plans to pack up and move house to France, which was something he probably felt was clear from the get go.

“Because I was waiting to get a letter from you — your inevitable letter of disillusion, which would say, ‘Okay, I want just to let you know that my eyes have finally been opened. I see clearly now that you never had any real feeling for me, and that I was only an occasional nothing that you couldn’t forget quickly enough. Thanks anyway — I want you just to understand that ‘I DON’T THINK I NEED YOU ANY MORE!’ But I’ve not as yet had such a letter from you.

Tony Perkins assumed the kid got the message and would either say so by dropping all communications, or at least writing to say "ok, good-bye, but KIT".

Instead Patrick Loiseau does opposite, writing what amounts to "stay with me.... " sort of letters. Which as wont to do with some men gay or straight turns TP off even more. A guy starts thinking "what the fuck have I gotten into.... few hours of sex now I can't get rid of the guy/girl...".

Fact young Patrick Loiseau seems to have rolled around with only three men, (Anthony Perkins, friend of his husband, and finally the now husband) says to me at least he was one of those young gays that fell hard, and was looking for stability early on.

There was no fucking way TP was going to immigrate to France, so PL must have been dreaming the way young people do when in love. That's what would have had to happen as Patrick Loiseau was too young and for a host of other reasons couldn't pack up and move to USA either.

R68

Everyone is entitled to his own opinions in matter of tastes, but IMHO as young man and even into middle age Anthony Perkins was hot as you could get for WASP males.

He may have been tall, lean and gangly to some, but to each his own.

R70 Thank you!

Patrick Loiseau should have listened to Cher....

Hi, gays! What do you think of these? Let’s party!!

Berry Berenson (Mrs. Tony Perkins) was aboard American Airlines flight 11 which was flown into the North Tower of the World Trade Center on September 11,2001.

[quote]telling him to move on and not waste any more time on him in a kind intelligent way

It wasn't kind, early in the letter he basically says, "You were a nothing that I couldn't forget fast enough, and I thought you were smart enough to figure that out on your own, but I guess not."

It wasn't particularly intelligent either, it seemed way too obvious and as though he were trying to make himself sound smarter and more worldly than he was.

R76

Guess you missed " “However, even if you’ve only THOUGHT of writing me a letter like that, that’s good enough for me. All that is a long and complicated way for me to tell you that you must know that you don’t really ‘need’ me, as you’ve said in each of your letters — that makes no sense! "

This letter seems to be in response to Patrick Loiseau pestering Tony Perkins (as love struck persons are wont to do), with letters that likely went or ended with "why haven't I heard from you .....?".

Today of course we look down at our phones and don't answer, block, or do whatever else to avoid taking a person's call. Back then it was letters arriving one after the other with all same them; again "you said you loved me.....".

For those who haven't bothered urge read entire linked story in R20. It gives entire backstory of the Patrick Loiseau/Antony Perkins saga, at least from the former's point of view.

Tony Perkins basically seduced and abandoned young PL, the latter was a young, shy and a virgin in matters of gay sex or anything else of that ilk. Previous attempts by older gay men repulsed M. Loiseau and that's where he stood on gay sex until Antony Perkins made him blossom.

"Thinking himself unworthy of such attentions, Patrick was discombobulated when, in time, Perkins cupped the boy’s head in his hand and, intoning the words “Patrick, you’re sooooo sexy!,” kissed him long and deeply, the first man to ever have done so. Perkins began slowly undressing the trembling youth, who quickly began to help him do so — and they made love. Nearly every night for the next ten weeks, they arranged to get together, and when the time arrived for Perkins to go to London for additional filming, he promised to be back in a few weeks to dub the French version of the movie."

As stated previously in this thread turning out a young innocent twink has to be done with care. Some see things for what they are, others are in *LOVE* and start looking at china patterns and picking out linens.

Patrick Loiseau couldn't have known Tony Perkins was a self loathing closet case. Indeed just to years later in 1972 Perkins would undergo electroshock treatments to "cure" his homosexuality.

Anthony Perkins knew who and what he was; he also knew what he was doing by cutting Patrick Loiseau loose even if it seems cruel now to some people's eyes. Patrick Loiseau had a very lucky escape then if he did but know it. Am sure in hindsight now after all these years (and Tony Perkins dead) he must have come to something like that conclusion.

[quote] Indeed just to years later in 1972 Perkins would undergo electroshock treatments to "cure" his homosexuality.

Which didn’t work, but you know what did? My PUSSY!!

R54

From link above:

"Tony and Patrick would not see each other for another five years, when Patrick and Dave were on a visit to New York to meet with the execs at CBS Records, where Dave was then under contract. On a chance impulse, Patrick dialed an old New York phone number given to him by Perkins, who was then on Broadway starring in “Equus.” The French couple found it impossible to get tickets to the sold-old hit before their scheduled departure, but when Berry Berenson answered the phone she exclaimed, “You’re Patrick from Paris? Tony will be so happy to see you. There’ll be two tickets for you and your friend waiting at the theater box office tonight, and I’ll leave word for you to be admitted back stage to his dressing room.”

After the play, Patrick and Dave did indeed go back stage, but instead of knocking on Perkins’ dressing room door, they diffidently decided to wait for him to come out. When he did, he was wearing the scarf Patrick had given him all those years before… and in the background lurked another young blonde boy who did not look unlike Patrick. Still, the smile on Perkins’ face on seeing Patrick Loiseau and meeting his lover Dave was broad and genuine. Perkins’ letter of rupture had achieved some effect on the young Frenchman after all."

I take that to mean Berry Perkins knew about the letter, Patrick and what her husband had been up to in France with that young man.

People need to stop feeling sorry or whatever for Berry Berenson (Mrs. Tony Perkins), she knew what she was getting with Tony Perkins and they deserved each other.

R70 where are all the quotes from the letter where he continues to mind fuck the kid by telling him he thinks of him and still wants him (he’ll call from the airport)?

Also the line about waiting for a letter from the kid is a lie....more manipulative bullshit.

R80

Go back and read things again...

TP says he's waiting for a letter from "the kid" saying "Because I was waiting to get a letter from you — your inevitable letter of disillusion, which would say, ‘Okay, I want just to let you know that my eyes have finally been opened....". Which of course PL never writes. Instead he writes about missing TP, why hasn't he written back yet, etc....

"Don't guilt me for using you fir a quick fling, but be there for another quick fling whenever I'm in the area and feel so inclined ". What a prince among men.

[quote]a young, shy and a virgin in matters of gay sex or anything else of that ilk

What other matters are of the ilk of gay sex?

Go read entire linked story above which comes from PL's book.

The kid hadn't kissed, made out with, mutual or whatever JO, held hands, zip, nothing nada.

Some older guy tried to grab his wang while PL was taking a piss at public urinal and he totally freaked out. This was before meeting TP obviously.

When I say Tony Perkins turned that young twink out, that's just what happened.

Wicked when you think about it, but TP wasn't the first and certainly not last older gay man to hump and dump a young gay.

[Quote]People need to stop feeling sorry or whatever for Berry Berenson (Mrs. Tony Perkins), she knew what she was getting with Tony Perkins and they deserved each other.

I think Berry may have been lesbian like her sister Marissa, both in lavender marriages.

Did they find some Berry at the World Trade Center?

For those who still haven't read entire linked book entry....

Nearly all high end shops in Paris by 1970's if not before (and certainly now) have at least one sales person fluent in English. This shop "bottom" or "girl" will wait upon American or British customers who don't speak French.

Patrick Loiseau was that young man at YSL boutique who was sent to wait upon Anthony Perkins, Greta Garbo, Peter Sellers, and others when when came shopping.

What if anything Tony Perkins knew about PL before he went to that YSL boutique we'll never know exactly. Tony Perkins did know Patrick's name and introduced himself as "Tony" when leaving the shop.

TP returned a few days later making a scene that trousers purchased didn't fit which was a rouse to slip Patrick his name and telephone number.

More one thinks about this it all seems as if TP knew exactly what he was up to; more so it fits the pervy way TP cruised when home in New York City.

It all does make TP sound like a bit of a predator. Again he wouldn't be the first to go after a twink that way, and certainly not the last.

Oh honey, weren't we all.

he used a ruse to rouse him

Let's face it anyone who sneers at a lover because of his job isn't a lover at all, but a worthless social climber. I could see a letter like this for the "tough love" of someone addicted to drugs or alcohol (and it still wouldn't work), but to a consensual lover? TP comes off as an exploiter, a snob, a user, and a dim bulb. He would say, "I don't care if it works" but the truth is he is too dumb to see what an asshole he is. I'm sure he's raped a few people in his time with that attitude.

"Oh I cant be seen with you, who are a nobody. Get some money and fame and then come back for me!"

And you think the unrequited lover is the pathetic one? TP is the pathetic loser in this letter.

All celebs are like this. They want a somebody on their arm but not one more revered than themselves.

The letter would be fair if he hadn't included that bit at the end where he said he'll always call Patrick when he's in Paris. That's leaving the boy a crumb of hope when clearly the relationship was hopeless.

What? Its an embarrassingly hideous letter throughout.

R94 embarrassingly hideous?? Explain please.

R95, if you're not seeing how Perkins' letter is disingenuous and manipulative at ever turn, then explaining it will not change things. You already have your reaction to the letter. It is not likely to change. You will listen to the explanation, review the letter and then... disagree.

But a LOT of people on this thread agree. It's self-serving, narcissistic, and very, very, manipulative.

R95. Fuck you, I'm embarrassingly hideously high.

Pretty poison.

Anthony Perkins was realistic and genuine.

Look at my fucking tits, you goddamn freaks!! Shit, this is what it was like with Anthony! Fucking fags.

He wouldn’t look at them either, at first. But finally I got him into my trailer on the set of my feature film The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, and I said “Anthony, look at these tits. They are magnificent. And you’re going to put your hands on them.” He started giving me some bullshit, so I just grabbed his hands and put them there myself.

He looked away, but I’d had enough of his shit, so I went right to Final Jeopardy. I took off my panties and tossed them at him. He ducked out of the way. “Look at this bush, you little freak. Look at it! You are going to munch this box.”

And I grabbed him, pushed him down on the sofa, and plopped myself down right on his face!

Oh, he squirmed at first, but after a few seconds he was going to town. That faggy dick of his got so hard and I pulled it out and said “Fuck me, faggot!” And he did. And he was all like “Victoria, I never knew it could be like this! I’m not a virgin anymore! I’m not a queer! Anthony Perkins is not a queer!”

And he blew his load in me and I’m like, “Okay, get the fuck out of here.” And he’s like “When can I see you again?” And I’m like “Mmm-hmm. You mean when can you see this pussy again.” And I slammed the door in his face. It sure was fun. Sure, I had to have a D&C six weeks later, but it was hardly my first, and it sure wouldn’t be my last.

Don't believe it was PL Tony Perkins was trying to forget or whatever, but fact he had gay sex with the young man. TP was one big fucked up closet case, hardly the sort of man who'd write long love letters telling someone after a fling how much he couldn't wait to be together again.

And what exactly was Tony Perkins supposed to be manipulating PL into or for anyway? He didn't set eyes upon the young man again until five years later when PL and his (by then) partner arrived in NYC and wanted to see Tony Perkins in Equus.

By all accounts TP made no further efforts to keep in touch with PL after that letter, but oddly he told Berry all about the boy, or at least enough that she knew who he was and arranged for the couple to get tickets and backstage passes. Berry Perkins wouldn't have done that if she hadn't a foggy clue who PL was, I mean if her husband only said he was some random shop assistant from Paris, France don't think her tone on telephone would have been so gushingly happy.

Are we going to believe TP kept that vicuna scarf in his dressing room (or wore it every day?) so it just happened to be handy when PL and Dave showed up backstage that night? Berry Perkins must have told her husband who telephoned and what arrangements were going to be made to accommodate his former fuck buddy's request.

Would love to know who the young blonde twink that was backstage in TP's dressing room that night when PL and Dave came a calling. His name is lost to us but bet he has some stories to tell.

So vulgar, R100.

Helen Merrill, Tony Perkins and Grover Dale were all playing house starting in 1968 at No. 467 West 21st Street. Thus Tony was still with Grover in 1970 when he took that trip to Paris, France.

Sometime in 1972 Berinthia "Berry" Berenson moved into that house in Chelsea sending both Ms. Merrill and Grover Dale to the curb. In 1973 TP and the young mademoiselle Berenson were married.

Tony Perkins took over role of Martin Dysart in Equus in 1975 with a young Tom Hulce as the young disturbed boy. When you consider Tony Perkins dalliance with Patrick Loiseau occurred some several years prior and before Berry Berenson was even on the scene, one then wonders why he told her about the young twink at all. If anyone should have known and likely been ticked off in 1970's that would have been Grover Dale....

His son Oz is a talented filmmaker, and his brother Elvis does music. The best things that came from Petkins' troubled life.

Thanks R44! I'm about three-quarters through "Glamour Ghoul," Maila Nurmi's bio, and cool title by the way, and the subtitle -- The Passions and Pain of the Real Vampira -- is pure camp It's FABULOUS!!!! Just got finished with the Sex with Elvis part. What a life. Witty, articulate woman. Very well-written.

I guess Maila didn't mind bearding for all those 50s heartthrobs.

R105

Maila Nurmi had a love child with Orson Welles that was put up for adoption. Wonder if the child (now adult if still living) knows or ever knew (if deceased) his true parentage.

If there ever was an example of how Hollywood could chew up and spit out actors, Maila Nurmi fit. Poor thing ended her days in almost dire penury

I wondered the same thing about the Orson Welles love child. She never mentions him (?) She had a hard life but occasionally she was treated like a lady, like with Liberace in Vegas. Perkins didn't treat her well at all. A real prick. She was smart, funny and humble. "Once upon a time I was "It" for five minutes," she said.

Maila was pissed because her assistant, who was also James Dean's former slave, was now hanging out with Elvis more than Maila was. She went out with Liberace and Johnny Ray and Elvis stopped by:

"Elvis came over and I grabbed his divining rod. His fury knows no bounds. Elvis made a speech to me about, 'The next time I go out with you, etc.' All the times we were together, he never let me see his pee-pee so I told him he had no guts. He now hates me and is proclaiming it loudly. Fabulous activity at Sands and Liberace drove me home."

R100, now [italic]that[/italic] is a memoir I'd pay money to read.

This was translated from the French, right?

That certain French circumlocution.

R111

Yes, pretty much anything you find in English from "L'homme de passage : Une histoire d'amours", has been translated. Don't believe entire book has been translated into English for sale outside of France.

Patrick Loiseau and is life partner "Dave" gained bit more fame for being one of first couples to engage in civil unions, then SSM when France made it legal.

More...

Like many other Latin based cultures in Europe, France is accepting of gays at certain levels in an odd way I suppose. I mean it's not something many couples or even single gays go around shouting from the house tops. That Dave and Patrick have been together for so long living openly as a gay couple "come what may" as it were says something I suppose.

Again Patrick took up with "Dave" just several months after Tony Perkins threw him over, but after a short interlude with Dave's then manager or something. So they've been together since Patrick was a twenty-something twink basically.

No one is really expecting Patrick's book to become some sort of nationwide best seller in France or even the world. But French do love their books and reading, so who knows..

Finally must say do think it's the Tony Perkins connection that is selling this book. Yes, Patrick and Dave are sort of celebrity gay couple in France, but without the Tony Perkins angle it's just basically taking up with Dave and remaining these fifty some odd years together.

What you've basically got is; shy young gay virgin has fling with famous American film and stage actor, who dumps him after a short dalliance...... After picking himself up off the ground from being dumped said young gay man (but no longer a virgin) takes up with perhaps not so famous singer and they live happily ever after for fifty years and counting.

P.S.

Patrick Loiseau of course has the benefit of being the only one involved still alive. Both Anthony and Berry Perkins are gone, and since you can't liable the dead he can tell his story as sees fit

Patrick's story is pretty fucking lucky when you think about it. By finding the love of his life so young, he not only enjoyed a long and happy partnership but avoided the AIDS apocalypse.

Elvis Perkins doesn't look like his parents, but reminds me of someone...

Did Tony meet Steve whilst making this?

Love this thread.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

One interesting tidbit from the Split Image biography is that Anthony was fixated on Oz's weight as a child — he would ask co-workers if they thought Oz was fat and if something needed to be done about it.

Don't think either Berry Berenson nor her sister were naturally thin, but rather had a tendency towards being "big". Not fat or obese, just more like what normal weight for women.

When you look at pictures of youngish BB you can see where Oz likely took after regarding weight. It surely wasn't his father....

Anthony's weight may have had something to do with his mother's abuse.

Therapists say that anorexia, rejecting food, is often about rejecting the mother (who traditionally provides it).

In this picture you can see Elvis is unquestionably Anthony Perkins son.

Review of book from the time (2012)

For those who don't speak French, just cut and paste into any good online translation site.

Am going to pick up "Split Image" to throw into my bag for summer reading.... It sounds like the book explains so much about Anthony Perkins behaviour including his treatment of the young French twink.

I've read Split Image a few times — it's a very worthy read.

It's maybe not the definitive Perkins biography (which has yet to be written). It's flawed in ways that reviewers have pointed out. Loiseau is not mentioned. But it has a lot of juice re: Tony, Tab and Grover, and Tony's sex life overall.

Was the scarf apricot?

What happened to that vicuna scarf?

"His first heterosexual affair was with actress Victoria Principal. On the morning after their first night together, Perkins said he was a changed man, and that his last trace of anxiety over women was gone."

Oh yeah!

[quote]and since you can't [bold]liable[/bold] the dead he can tell his story as sees fit.

Oh, deer...

Perkins was terrific in EQUUS. Much more interesting than Richard Burton was in that dreary film.

But, gah! He sounds exhausting. He would have been great to fuck, once, in about 1958. But after that, move on, move on.

Would have loved to see TP on Broadway in Equus and few other shows he did.

God damn, Tony Perkins was so fucking hot in Evening Primrose....

Know it's not one of Sondheim's best and the book is weak, but would love to see someone do Evening Primrose again, even if only on a PBS sort of event.

R121 Tony was rightly concerned about Oz's weight.

Oz was a fat child.

Unpopular opinion, I loved Anthony Perkins in Mahogany.

I loved him in Mahogany too!

And Pretty Poison,

I remember him.

I never forget a face.

Especially one that I've sat on.

R139

To (R100) That was fucking awesome!! I knew Victoria was a whore, but your version was just more FUN!!

[quote] For those who haven't bothered urge read entire linked story in [R20]. It gives entire backstory of the Patrick Loiseau/Antony Perkins saga, at least from the former's point of view.

That story erroneously states that Perkins died in 1982. He died in 1992. So if they don’t proofread their stories, it just makes the reader wonder what else could be wrong.

R142

We're talking about Gay City News, not the NYT here... Even NYT makes mistakes and issues corrections, but guess since the article didn't even receive one comment, it wasn't read widely enough for anyone to give a fuck about incorrect DoD for Tony Perkins.

Much of what was written either came as translated material from PL's book, or things about Tony Perkins that are out there already.

I don't think anybody has mentioned that Grover Dale eventually married the luscious sexpot Anita Morris, who was nominated for a Tony in Nine, and James Badge Dale is their son.

"Luscious sexpot" is true but doesn't give Anita Morris her due. She was a wonderful singer and dancer and although she didn't become a major star she had successful careers both on Broadway and in films.

Mrs. Grover Dale (Anita Morris) is mentioned in nearly every other thread about Anthony Perkins or Grover Dale, no one got around to it here likely because it seemed redundant. That and thread is about TP with Grover Dale only being drawn in because of their relationship.

But since the topic has been opened for discussion......

Anita Morris was great in Nine, film Aria, and other works including television. A great talent and beautiful (inside and out) woman who left us far too soon.

You have to wonder if Grover Dale was more successful as a "straight" husband and father than his former lover Tony Perkins.

Mark of true professional that Anita Morris was is in how she handles a wardrobe mishap during a live filming of dance number.

Frenchies don't wash their hands after they pee. It's wonderful.

I'm fascinate by the Berrie and Amthony relationship. How much did she know exactly? Whose idea was it to marry? I wonder if she was secretly turned on by the fact that Tony was a fan of men?

Did Anthony and Berrie have threesomes?

I remember hearing about a tidbit from some celebrity bio about Athony taking a shower and drying off with the door open.

[quote] Berry Berenson (Mrs. Tony Perkins) was aboard American Airlines flight 11 which was flown into the North Tower of the World Trade Center on September 11,2001.

At least she died while traveling in first class.

For whoever it was upthread who asked why they married, she was pregnant and he was thrilled.

When were he and Sondheim lovers?

He sounds like an asshole.

Perkins was the original Wooden Head, before Keanu took up the cross.

You only work in a shop, you know. You can drop the attitude.

Dear Patrick, I did leave you little note on the bathroom mirror if you remember. Scrawled in lipstick it read: Welcome to the world of AIDS, love Tony! Hope this letter finds you well!

Smart? It's incredibly manipulative. "I liked you because you were more than just a shopboy. But I don't understand why you, smarter-than-shopboy, haven't figured out why I've been ignoring you. You're better than this. We're done, it's not possible. Get over it. Have fun. But I'll call you if I get into Paris. Thanks for the scarf."

R151

I think this is what you're thinking of. Jennifer Lee, a friend of Berry Berenson, had been staying with Perkins and Berenson. One morning, while Berenson was away, Lee was taking a shower when Perkins came into the bathroom and started shaving. He knew Lee was in the shower and seemed to enjoy making her uncomfortable. Any normal person would have said he'd return when she was out of the shower.

Such condescension.

But be cool, fellas. I saw this guy kill a broad once.

Berry was engaged to a gay man who wanted to become straight when she met Perkins, on whom she'd had a crush since she was 12 or 13. Her fiancé was distraught when she told him she was leaving him for Perkins and when he told her that Perkins was gay, she said that Perkins had done conversion therapy to become straight.

She got pregnant but initially, they did not plan to marry anytime soon. Winecoff, one of Perkins' biographers, says that she actually had been pregnant before and had a miscarriage and Perkins let it slip in an interview. They got married in August 1973 when she was three months pregnant. It was an impromptu marriage and a few days after Perkins' live-in lover of several years, Grover Dale, got married to a woman. Some people thought Perkins was being competitive with Dale.

R161 Grover Dale married the lovely Anita Morris, who played the mistress in "Ruthless People."

R135

I think there may have been a concert performance of Evening Primrose.

124

His kids are so unattractive. How disappointing. They were cute as small children.

LOL at all of the Eldergays thinking Tony is an upstanding person for sending a letter that said "I could care less if you died in a grease fire; I figured you would get that by now but I guess you're just a low class service worker." wrapping the whole thing up in diplomatic bullshit.

R39, that was terrible to read. Perkins sounds like a huge asshole for no reason.

Basically was said previously, but since thread was revived from the dead...

Tony Perkins like many older gay men before, then and now picked-up and turned out a young twink. He had his fun and assumed that was that far as twink was concerned. Sadly as wont to happen the young gay having been awakened now won't (or wouldn't) take the hint, and graciously get himself lost.

Yes, it was beastly way Tony Perkins treated young Patrick Loiseau, but he was hardly alone on that score.

Berry Berenson, now that's a mind one would have loved to get inside. Was she really so totally ignorant of her husband's dalliances with men, or simply chose to turn a blind eye?

I mean WTF did Tony Perkins tell her about Patrick Loiseau that she was so gushing and charming when the latter rang up their home?

R39

She's not the most reliable narrator and it makes no sense. Why would Perkins want an unstable lover to commit suicide? He was trying to avoid entanglements and bad publicity, not court them.

R168

She came from a fairly avant-garde family. She was engaged to a gay man who was trying to become straight when she met Perkins on whom she'd had a crush for 12 years. She worked at Interview magazine, which had tons of gay and queer staffers, including her fiancé.

I think she looked the other way.

I once wrote some letters to my nanny.

R150

Not that I've ever heard of. I don't know anything about their sex life, but in addition to caring about her, she represented the normal, stable hetero lifestyle he wanted to be a part of. I doubt he'd have mixed his two lives. People who knew them suspected she knew something because he wasn't discreet.

I don't understand why he wasn't straightforward. He could even have used the speech Ingrid Bergman gave his character in Goodbye Again (paraphrased):

"I needed you and you needed me. It was wonderful. But it couldn't last."

“You’re Patrick from Paris? Tony will be so happy to see you..."

Again just how the fuck did Tony Perkins explain Patrick Loiseau to his wife that she was so sure he'd be happy to see the young man again?

More to the point why would TP tell his wife about some young twink he fucked around with while in Paris, France?

More telling was TP already had a new boytoy in his dressing room when Patrick Loiseau and his partner arrived backstage.

Mrs. Anthony Perkins must have reached same conclusion many other women have who love a man you have to share if want him at all.

News from France...

R39

Timmy Everett became friends with Perkins' mother. Her name was Janet but she was always called "Jane." She was reassuring and promised to leave him money when she died. But her will did not mention him and he was devastated. I believe the heart attack was said to have been caused by drug use.

R166

I love Perkins, but he sounds like an asshole trying to wrap himself in a cloak of kindness. Loiseau was a young man, a virgin, sweet and highly romantic, and their relationship, though short, sounds like it was pretty intense. Did Perkins really think Loiseau wasn't going to fall deeply in love with him?

[quote]La Saint-Sylvestre is probably more what Americans would consider Christmas Eve or Day, it's huge deal in France and many French speaking countries.

I didn't understand this. New Year's Eve is a bigger deal than Christmas Eve in the US.

The letter is condescending, if you ask me.

He was sexy as fuck, but certainly not likeable.

Great honk!

I ... I'm sorry, I don't understand.

He explains why he hasn’t written only to again say that he’s about to explain why he hasn’t written. Was he high, he was known as one of the biggest assholes on the planet.

Who was the famous guy he fucked? Said famous guy exposed Perkins as a narcissist bordering on sociopathy.

[quote] Says the actor.

Burn.

[quote] His kids are so unattractive. How disappointing. They were cute as small children.

Which parish do you work for, Father?

This letter made like Anthony Perkins more, he didn't want to play with the young man's emotions. I don't understand why many people here can't see that.

R187

But he was playing with Patrick Loiseau's emotions. If he'd wanted to be kind and straightforward, he would have written him promptly and wouldn't have sent such a back-assed, back-handed letter. Loiseau got him back (I'm not saying his memoir was just revenge) by using Perkins' celebrity to generate interest in his book.

I understand why it was awkward for Perkins. He had a fling and he was done. But he should have been more sensitive.

If he was done, why did he tell him he'd be the first person he'd call when he got back to Paris?

That seems a rather long-winded way to tell someone "You're a silly shop girl who means nothing to me. Now, leave me alone."

I guess we could say, at least he wrote him a letter and didn't just drop him like a hot rock.

When I read these things from the past, I often wonder, how could big stars be so sure somebody wouldn't out them? They seem so indiscreet considering their whole career was hanging in the balance and for most of them it was their only chance of ever making those kinds of bucks.

It wasn't a very smart letter. If you are dealing with someone who is obsessive and won't go away, to tell them you will probably visit their town and not be able to wait to call them once you arrive is like pouring gasoline on the torch they carry.

R192 The letter seemed to give mixed messages.

R187

He was playing with Loiseau's emotions. You're smart enough to have figured out why I haven't responded/I'll call you when I'm next in Paris.

He could have been straightforward and said something like it was a great thing, but it was a thing of the moment, and now it's over. You're a wonderful young man and will find someone else soon.

Borderline?

R172

In a recent documentary, Queer for Fear, Perkins's older son, Oz, confirmed that his mother knew Perkins was gay and felt it was her responsibility to protect him. Let's face it, she would have been a moron if she hadn't known.

I think she was a lez in denial

I guess I'm in a minority of people who don't find Grover Dale attractive. I can't believe Tony couldn't have done better than that. But looks aren't everything in relationships.

R118 Does the son remind you of Weird Al Yankovic?

By several accounts, Berry Berenson was a devoted (obsessive?) fan of Perkins and pursued him. She happened to meet him when he wanted to become straight. Turned out he could get it up, get it in, and reproduce. She was thrilled.

As for people questioning her turning a blind eye to his gay hookups, they were married in 1973. It was a more open-minded time. Before AIDS, there was no potential grave consequence to him having his fun.

She probably did realize he was all-the-way-gay soon enough and their relationship stopped being sexual after the second son was born (1976). I'm not surprised Oz said she knew and felt she had to protect him — she had sons to protect too.

[quote]I can't believe Tony couldn't have done better than that. But looks aren't everything in relationships.

Uh, he did, R198. He dated Tab Hunter, one of the most beautiful men alive, #1 heartthrob of a generation.

That sounds like the letter of a man afraid of blackmail who wants to quickly put some water behind him.

[quote] When I say Tony Perkins turned that young twink out, that's just what happened. Wicked when you think about it, but TP wasn't the first and certainly not last older gay man to hump and dump a young gay.

Certainly not the last...

Nowadays Perkin's could write this letter to 10 million Zers who can only get jobs at the Dollar Store. LOL.

[quote]Okay, I want just to let you know ... I want you just to understand ...

As if his trick wouldn't have split the infinitives—how pedantic!

R201

Yeah, but his relationship with Hunter had been over for a while when Perkins met Dale.

R202

That's a good possible explanation for why the letter is so vague and confusing.