Do you think the current "fully vaccinated" message is a bit worrisome?

OP is an MSNBC junkie who can't let the issue go.

I don't have cables at home, I have no idea what is going on MSNBC

[quote] I don't have cables at home, I have no idea what is going on MSNBC

Vaccine, schmaxine! Keep acting like it's March 2020!

My biggest issue using the honor system. With so many anti-vaxxers, how can you trust someone not to lie and say they've been vaccinated? I'm going to continue to mask up and social distance as if we're still knee-deep in this thing.

I went to both Target and Trader Joe’s this weekend. Both no longer require customers to wear masks. Everyone in Target was masked and I saw one shopper in TJs without a mask. I think everyone is doing what’s best for them.

It will be interesting see if there's any type of spike two or three weeks from now due to the loosening of restrictions and just general holiday weekend get-togethers. That will be very telling.

I used to be consumed with fear about the virus as well. I almost never left my house for nearly 9 months, and when I did, I double masked and scrubbed down when I got home. Getting vaccinated was a huge relief.

... and then I started hearing about the breakthrough cases, more variants, booster shots, blah, blah, blah.

I did some research (reading the science and not the fear-mongering media), and the latest understanding is that the chance of a breakthrough case after vaccination is less than 1%; and if you're in that less-than-1% unlucky enough to catch it, your chances of being seriously ill (i.e. on a ventilator) and next to none. You have almost an equal chance of catching Covid after vaccination as you do getting struck by lightning. Yes, it's *possible* that you can spread it if you catch it, but the chances of catching it are so miniscule and the majority of people who want the vaccine have or will get it. If you don't want to be vaccinated, that's on you if you catch it.

I'll still wear a mask if I need to, but I'm really not worrying about COVID any more. If we need to get booster shots, fine. Sign me up. If it mutates into a vaccine resistant strain, I'll deal with that IF it happens (and anyone claiming this is bound to happen is just speculating unproductively.) I can't imagine staying locked up in the house for another year or more simply waiting to see what happens. Once vaccinated, it's not reasonable to continue being paralyzed by fear over the virus.

I know I'm sick of hearing about this shit.

[quote] the chance of a breakthrough case after vaccination is less than 1%

this sounds true.

[quote] and if you're in that less-than-1% unlucky enough to catch it, your chances of being seriously ill (i.e. on a ventilator) and next to none.

this is not true, R7. Among the data released so far, for those breakthrough cases, 2% resulted in death, 1 out 50 is not "next to none" and the seriously ill should be even higher than 2%

The thing is too that no one knows how long the vaccine affords immunity or when immunity begins to wane beyond six months. The first people to have been vaccinated are coming up on their six-month vaccination anniversary. Are they still immune? Has their immunity waned? Nobody knows for sure. People are gallivanting around and partying as if Covid is over. It's still very much with us and still a threat.

[quote] [r9] this is not true, [R7]. Among the data released so far, for those breakthrough cases, 2% resulted in death, 1 out 50 is not "next to none" and the seriously ill should be even higher than 2%

2% of less than 1% is close enough to "next to none" for me to quit obsessively worrying about dying from COVID. (That's what I meant.)

[quote] r10 TThe first people to have been vaccinated are coming up on their six-month vaccination anniversary. Are they still immune? Has their immunity waned? Nobody knows for sure. People are gallivanting around and partying as if Covid is over. It's still very much with us and still a threat.

I'm pretty confident that the scientist who tested the vaccines are keeping close tabs on the research subjects who agreed to be a part of the clinical trials. *IF* immunity wanes, it's most likely to happen in those people first, which will afford the scientists time to warn the rest of the masses and work to do something about it. The people who are out gallivanting and partying are likely to be fine for now as long as they've been vaccinated; and again, if they've chosen not to be vaccinated, that's on them.

You're all living in a fool's paradise if you think this thing is even close to over. I expect things to explode again in the fall or even sooner, despite all the vaccinated people, just like it dad last year after we had that summer lull here in the NYC area. We're becoming way too complacent because of our fatigue over masking and social distancing. DO NOT LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!

[quote] r13: We're becoming way too complacent because of our fatigue over masking and social distancing. DO NOT LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!

What evidence do you have to support that once vaccinated, we should "not let our guard down"? Even the CDC says we don't need masks for most things once vaccinated.

I'm done with masks, unless the CDC or the local health officials determine otherwise. I'm fully vaccinated and trust the science. I have reached the point where I'm done with Covid. I'm not afraid of it any longer. I was surprised at the number of people in Target today with masks on, but they've got to do what's best for them. I'm just glad I can use ApplePay with facial recognition again.

I probably will keep wearing masks. Reminder that they don’t only work for COVID, there are other diseases out there.

CDC also said we didn't need to wear masks last February, later in May we were told we must wear the mask, in January, we better "double mask", also from CDC.

R14 either you are a Boris troll or you are really dumb.

Also the CDC has been wrong before.

When I go in stores, the workers are wearing masks, although they are no doubt vaccinated. As a courtesy to them, I also wear a mask. It can't hurt and it's not that inconvenient.

[quote] either you are a Boris troll or you are really dumb.

I'm neither, but enjoy continuing to live in fear if you'd like. I've read enough of the research and looked at enough of the data to not be afraid of it any more.

If I hadn't just lost a (healthy but 70) friend to a breakthrough infection, I'd feel the same. 1% is still people.

OP, cut this shit. I'd better see your fat ass back in your cube June 1st- or else!

I'm sorry for your loss, r21. What vaccine did your friend get? Many of the breakthrough cases have been among people who had the J&J vaccine, which reduces chance of infection by 60-65%, compared to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, which are about 95% efficacious.

[quote] I expect things to explode again in the fall or even sooner

What you mean to say is you hope it will.

How can you tell if someone is fully vaccinated?

^It's on the honor system, which a fatal flaw in all these reopenings.

OP you're ignorant of the latest news. You are mired in anxiety and you need to snap out of it. The people who should worry are those who have not been vaccinated. Not you.

[quote]It's on the honor system, which a fatal flaw in all these reopenings.

No it's not. There is no flaw in that. The science is clear, fully vaccinated people are protected from the unvaccinated and the virus. And that doesn't mean that you can't get it... it means that your changes of being hospitalized or dying from it are pretty freaking slim.

Now, as for the unvaccinated, if they've made the choice not to get the vaccination, that's on them. Whatever happens to them, happens and I am trying to figure out just how many fucks that I do not give about the unvaccinated. They can all die from it for all I care.

Today I went to a private course at a local gun range, and the instructor eventually told me I didn’t have to wear a mask. I said I’d take it off because I’ve been fully vaccinated, but he was quick to point out our state had dropped the mandate entirely. During the course there were a few minutes where we were talking in close proximity and I could see spittle fly out of his mouth. He was nice and helpful, but I definitely got a “COVID is overblown vibe.” But what’s more concerning is that he didn’t even care if I was vaccinated...in his eyes masks were no longer mandatory.

After being fully vaccinated for a few weeks, I’ve gone to a few restaurants without a mask, and the gun range as well. I’d say 75% of employees and customers are still wearing masks, so that’s good. I’ve also gone on several hikes and never put my mask on once (although I repeatedly did while visiting a crowded National Park last Fall). I think people should continue to be prudent until cases and deaths drop to a statistically insignificant number. However, I’m also in the camp of people who’s ready to return to normalcy as soon as possible.

Soon as possible = some indefinite point

^^^ Live by the gun range instructor; die by the gun range instructor.

I'm fascinated by these people who are obsessively worried about a tiny percentage of "breakthrough cases" and an even tinier number of vaccinated people who get seriously ill (they probably have underlying conditions, you know?), and yet will get in to their car and drive all over town without a care in the world, even though their chances of getting killed in a car accident are undoubtedly much higher.

Some of you should study up on risk assessment.

[quote]The thing is too that no one knows how long the vaccine affords immunity or when immunity begins to wane beyond six months. The first people to have been vaccinated are coming up on their six-month vaccination anniversary. Are they still immune? Has their immunity waned? Nobody knows for sure.

We are actually starting to know this. The first people vaccinated are not from six months ago. They are from almost a year and a half ago when the trials started. They are showing active protection. They are finding the long term T and B immune cells. They are finding immune cells in the bone marrow that point to possible lifetime immunity through either infection or vaccination.

[quote] During the course there were a few minutes where we were talking in close proximity and I could see spittle fly out of his mouth. He was nice and helpful, but I definitely got a “COVID is overblown vibe.” But what’s more concerning is that he didn’t even care if I was vaccinated...in his eyes masks were no longer mandatory.

R29 yep, that's the type of people I am talking here, you just know there are some blowhards think it's over now, no more masks, no more social distancing, no more precautions... because "they are fully vaccinated", if those fully vaccinated people get infected and unware of it (asymptomatic), they could pose even a greater danger and potentially infect more a lot more people than those unvaccinated, they will be like a walking petri dish, spewing the virus right in front of your face.

[quote]they could pose even a greater danger and potentially infect more a lot more people than those unvaccinated

What about this aren't you getting?

R34 is a fucking moron. Please, don't listen to him. He's ignorant and probably an anti-vaxxer or full out covid denialist.

[quote]Some of you should study up on risk assessment.

I have been doing that from day one, r32. I self isolated in January, before the shutdown. Caught it anyway. After that, I was cautious, but never stopped going out. I was just careful of the risks I was taking. I always carry a mask, and wear it when others are wearing them.

Wearing a mask has become normal for me and I’ve gotten used to it. I’ll continue to wear one because it makes me feel just a little bit safer. And I could care less if the people around me are unmasked. They can live their lives and I’ll live mine.

The Kroger near me changed their sign to something like "not required, but encouraged". I would say that 80%-90% or so still wore masks. I will still wear masks in stores. Home Depot near me still requires masks, and as of last week so did Ikea.

Walking on nature trails today, nobody was wearing a mask. I did have one on a lanyard around my neck just in case I came across a crowd of people (I didn't). Trails were busy, but as this area doesn't have picnic areas, people just passed each other, and people automatically go to the sides to create distance.

Big test will be the art fairs that are starting up again. Outside, but usually crowded and exhibits under tarps/tents.

Mask on indoors, not outdoors, until someone gets near me.

You have a 0.04% chance of catching Covid if you are fully vaccinated and even less of a chance of dying from it if you do.

Take off your fucking mask, OP.

Thank you, R23. He was diagnosed 4 weeks after his 2nd Pfizer shot, the world lost a very kind man.

I wish the people in my town would mask forever- it has been an improvement.

No, personally. Enough is enough with this paranoia of hiding in psychological underground shelters and lack of personal responsibility also on the side of the pro-vaxxers, IMO. What did immunocompromised and other folks do to keep themselves healthy with previously and still existing viruses, like the common cold, the flu, measles, polio, TB or mumps? They got themselves vaccinated or, if they couldn't because of their immune system reactions or they didn't want to be vaccinated, they avoided unhealthy people and situations and washed their hands and didn't touch the ground and then put their hands in their mouth or lick the street. I mean, it's common sense. No vaccine can necessarily prevent someone from getting the virus it's created against. It might help one not to get the virus, or else significantly weaken its adverse effects. Now that I'm vaccinated, I'm not going to wear a mask forever because there may be other people who don't continue to take seriously the precautions they need to in order to stay healthy as a rule as human beings sharing the world with billions of others around us.

R42, was he really old or had he had some sort of blood or endocrine cancer that might have affected his antibody production? I'm worried a bit because my mother went into the hospital between her two doses so I don't know if that had any kind of effect and from what I've read antibody testing isn't necessarily accurate. She did have a flu-like reaction to her second dose of Moderna, so I'm hopeful that it worked well.

For what it’s worth, I have an immunocompromised friend who is vaccinated, but within that subgroup they’re being encouraged to proceed as if they aren’t. Therefore, my friend continues ri wear a mask, socially distance, use hand sanitizer, and follow the recommended precautions we’re all familiar with. Most other people are almost guaranteed to survive a breakthrough infection.

Then kudos to the OP for being an “MSNBC junkie,” Boris @ r1 as usual.

You always promote what’s good about the left.

R33 My understanding of the recently-reported clinical studies (described in your link) is that the people who had very strong immune responses, including long-lived memory B cells in their bone marrow, had prior infection with SARS-CoV-2, recovered, and had subsequently been vaccinated. That’s a different population than the folks who started the Moderna and Pfizer clinical trials about a year ago, in which the participants were followed predominantly for the presence or absence of clinical disease, not their immune status. The current data I'm aware of suggest that folks who have had only COVID-19 or only immunization do not have as strong an immune response as folks that have both. The reason for this is likely that natural infection with the entire virus produces a more diverse immune response, whereas vaccination induces a response to the viral spike protein only. Current thinking seems to be that people who have had both infection and vaccination may be immune for life (unless a sufficiently-different variant arises in the future), whereas vaccinated folks with no prior infection are more likely to need boosters irrespective of the nature of future variants.

[Quote] It's on the honor system

R26 The fatal flaw. Why haven't they thought this through?

Methinks, rhe dems are scared of the maggots.

I'm sensing Biden and Pelosi are getting weak kneed and buckling in this and other areas.

We really can't afford to go back to the same old Democratic Party.

Some people have loved this as an excuse to be shut ins. If you have stayed in all year, not travelled, and got your vaccinations, you've done your duty. I'll follow the masking guide lines, but once they are lifted in the next few weeks, I'm done. God knows how healthy breathing in these cheap surgical masks from China is, especially when working out.

OP. a nervous nellie like you, can continue to hide under the bed. You don't have to get back to living again like normal society.

[quote]God knows how healthy breathing in these cheap surgical masks from China is, especially when working out.

I'd love to hear all your scientific thoughts on the horrible things simple masks are doing to harm your health. I mean, I'm surprised medical personnel haven't been keeling over for a century due to wearing masks at work. You're a moron.

I don't think you'd have the bandwidth for the explanation, R52. Now hurry along, back to your bunker.

Like I said, you're a moron, R53. You have nothing.

I had chemo 11 years ago. All the drugs I was on (steriods, and others I can't remember now), and my oncologist never told me to wear a mask in public to avoid catching germs. This occurred to me just the other day. Against my oncologist's strong advice, I flew twice in two weeks, and wound up catching strep throat. I think the wisdom learned is to wear a mask in the future if you catch a cold. As far as the present goes, I'll restate that I'll continue to wear a mask outside of my home until I'm satisfied that the pandemic has reached the point of diminishing returns. It's the same practice of using a condom against the deafening chorus of, "It's OK, I'm on PREP!" Sure, sweetheart.

[quote]I'll continue to wear a mask outside of my home until I'm satisfied that the pandemic has reached the point of diminishing returns.

You need to do what works for you and your comfort level. But I am curious, do you have access to some data that the administration, the CDC and other health officials don't have access to?

Some of you look much better with masks on.

OP = Senator Susan Collins (R.-ME)

And OP if you swim in the ocean there’s a risk of shark attack. Do you insist on living a risk-free life?

It may actually be prudent to always wear a mask on air travel forever just to save you from not just Covid, but a multitude of other contagions.

My British coworkers told me they have resumed their normal lives and are meeting their friends and family for dinner, drinks and parties. One of them even went to two weddings, one of Friday and one yesterday. DL Brits, do you all feel safe about going back to your old lives? What is the risk of a fresh wave?

R61 - my roommate's cousin and her husband in Exeter are fully vaxxed and going back to normal life to an extent. They are planning travel locally, eating in restaurants but still avoiding huge crowds. He is a bus driver and wants them to keep his cubicle and when he rides the bus, he masks up. Going to the hospital to see his mom, he masks up. In restaurants they eat outside and try to stay a bit further from others. Since she is a bitch from hell, they have no friends but he does not wear a mask on his days off when he walks to the local park with their small son and dog and he chats with a lesbian couple he sometimes goes to a curry house with.

[quote] I'm going to continue to mask up and social distance as if we're still knee-deep in this thing.

We think you're FABULOUS!!!

Better not leave your house, OP. You have a better chance of dying in a car accident than dying of Covid, if vaccinated.

R64 - and, while I am a bit more in agreement with the OP than with you (sorry bitch...this is all way too soon), I do concur that what you said has crossed my mind ever since I left the US.

R61, adding to the report from Exeter, I’m in central London, what I’ve heard is that we’ll know in about two weeks which way this is going. Atm, infections of the India variant are rising while the country continues to relax restrictions. To me, it looks a lot like the 4th of July scene in Jaws when the Mayor of Amity is encouraging people to go back in the water. The under 40s are most at risk; I have friends in their mid-30s who have yet to receive the call for vaccination and yet this is the group that is being encouraged to assemble and socialise indoors. There is a faction of hard right Tories (of course) who are saying this is it now, even if infections rise, we need to open everything up again and if people die, they die, time to fully open up the economy and live with this thing.

Young people don’t need much encouragement to stop wearing masks, etc. so they seem to be out in full force, breathing all over each other. I see them now in stores not wearing masks and those annoying people who wear them on their chin or under their nose as if that does something. This all seems very poorly timed; I received a leaflet through the door this week from the local council saying that 3 other variants - aside from the India one - have been discovered in our borough and to remain vigilant. It doesn’t match the behaviour on the street. The government recently said “6 people from 6 different households can now congregate” - that seems like a total nonsense.

France has required a 10 day mandatory quarantine for travellers arriving from the UK. I suspect we won’t be going back to the office this year and that we’ll be in lockdown again by the fall.

R66 - yes, despite being an essential worker, my roommate's cousin's husband (I will call him C to be less tiresome) has said that he is still waiting on the second jab of the AstraZeneca as are many of his co-workers and passengers from the local Amazon facility. Despite this and the report that the India variant has been found in nearby Devon, the bars are chock full and NOBODY on his routes is masking up anymore. He is particularly nervous because he also has a mother who just had surgery for colon cancer and, despite her being fully vaxxed, he feels uneasy about how "light" everyone is being. Just sent me some pictures of a daytrip to Devon and the shops and restaurants are full of unmasked people (young people who he is sure haven't all been vaxxed) not masking up. I keep telling him that of things go like this I am seriously worried about my plans to visit in July, nevermind the horrors of a new wave.

As someone who suffers from an autoimmune disease, I will continue to wear a mask until infections are down to almost negligible numbers, and I will always mask up during flu and cold season. Asian countries have been doing this forever, and I don’t see why we can’t put aside our selfishness and ignorance and do the same thing.

It’s not that I don’t trust the CDC or the current recommendations, but all the data that we have so far is just that, current information that is not taking into consideration any variants that are still developing like the new Vietnam variant or the next 50 variants.

Regarding the 1% number, my partner’s colleague got Infected after being fully vaccinated and died. I don’t know what his health history was, but it made me a bit nervous. We all want to belong to the 1%, just not THAT 1% apparently.

I don’t see why some people are so bothered by others who want to continue wearing a mask. Why don’t you just worry about yourself, especially when you don’t know why someone else chooses to wear a mask?

The last sentence of R62's post is hilariously brilliant.

[quote] You have a 0.04% chance of catching Covid if you are fully vaccinated and even less of a chance of dying from it if you do. Take off your fucking mask, OP.

Apparently, those folks have developed such a deep-seated "trauma" (often via political tribalism/groupthink) that they just can't let it go. It's difficult to understand such unrealistic, irrational thinking.

It's not at all difficult to understand such paranoid irrational mindsets. Many people in the world are psychologically damaged and become overrun by fear and anxiety.

And or have lowish IQ combined with low information literacy.

Hyper saturation by media, run by pundits and charlatans and corporations who make money by peddling sensationalist misinformation and drama to get hits.

Bad brew.

The mask have been a real mind fuck. You think someone is hot, then you catch a glimpse of them without the mask the lower half is disappointing. On the other end, people with thyroid issues whose eyes bug out of their head look extra freakish with them on. It's a no win situation.

I have gorgeous blue eyes, but a non-existent chin and jawline. The masks have been a godsend and I never plan on leaving the house without one ever again.

I’m about to get all of my teeth pulled and it might take a week before I can get my dentures in so wearing a mask will save me embarrassment when I go out.

[quote] And I could care less if the people around me are unmasked.

If you could, you should.

I really and truly don't care if people want to continue to wear masks. Everyone needs to do what's right for them. What I just find strange is that many of the people who are still relying on the masks are the same people who kept saying trust the science. And now all of sudden, they're not trusting the science which is strange to me.

When science said wear a mask and social distance, I wore a mask and social distanced. Now science says, if you're vaxxed you can take the mask off, so I've taken it off. I guess I'm just trying to understand why it was okay to trust science then, but not now. But again, do what you want. You don't need to explain yourselves to me.

Bravo, r76.

My thoughts precisely.

R76, trust the science was fine as long as it fit their paranoid narrative. Now that it no longer does, they are no longer trusting the science.

It was never about "not trusting the science." That was the narrative put forth by the elitist liberal media to make conservatives look stupid and uneducated. It was more about not trusting the SCIENTISTS not to be politically motivated in their decision making.

My issue is the honor system. Down in the south, most people have given up on masks altogether, but only around 30% of the population is fully vaccinated. From what I understand, the more people that catch COVID, the more chance that the virus mutates and new variants emerge. What if the vaccine is far less effective against one of those new variants?

I really think that the CDC guidance to drop masks came too soon. We should have aimed for heard immunity first.

R76 is so right. Definitely don't trust WHO, side eye the CDC, but definitely to listen to the info out there and trust your gut. I was wearing masks when all of the above said not to and in the beginning in March, I was the weirdo wearing the mask at the grocery store etc. As it became more clear how the virus worked, it was clear it was airborne in some capacity. I left the house, lived my life, but masked up knowing no-one around here would protect my ass. Now I am vaccinated and I feel comfortable no wearing one, but for those who want to, there is no shame in that. Everyone has processed to the virus and pandemic differently over the last year. I personally would like to forget about it for a while. It's like with condoms and HIV prevention, once you have the knowledge, it's up to you to protect yourself or not.

Down south is, was and forever will be a shithole. HONOR? Ha!

R79, you’re a dumb fucking cunt. Go die in a grease fire, you shithead

He's dumb? I guess "Go die in a grease fire, you shithead" marks you out as the intelligent one.

[quote]It was more about not trusting the SCIENTISTS not to be politically motivated in their decision making.

This attitude - that even professional scientists would make decisions based on politics, rather than acting like the professionals they are - is honestly the source of so many of the biggest problems we face in this country.

It's the Trump attitude - for Trumpers, EVERYTHING is about power, getting it and keeping it. The idea that people might be committed to serving the public interest, without any personal advantage, just never crosses their mind - they simply can't grasp it.

This whole thing has been traumatic, on different levels, for nearly everyone. Recovering from trauma is a process. People are going to recover from that at different speeds. I still wear a mask at stores and inside public buildings. It’s hardly a burden, and it makes some people feel better. So, for me it’s worth it. I no longer worry if I’m in the company of unmasked people as I’m fully vaccinated. Very often encounters start w a mask discussion and then we move on. Medical science is also a process. It’s never going to be 100%. At some point common sense has to come into play.

It’s nice that some people are fully vaccinated but there are plenty of morons out there who won’t get it because of one dimwitted prejudice or another.

Those plague rats continue to breed the virus and it continues to mutate. A strain was just identified in Vietnam that seems to be a combination of the UK and Indian strains. It’s extremely contagious, and easily transmissible by air.

This isn’t nearly over yet.

We're all going to die in the Nuclear winter after the nuclear war between China and the world over China's gross negligence

Can you imagine what's going to happen the next time there is a report of some sort of illness spreading in China? Every fucking infectious disease comes from China. If this was our relatively non-lethal practice pandemic, try to imagine what is going to happen when something comes along that has a 25-50% mortality rate. The best case scenario is that it, again, can be prevented to a great degree by masking, distancing, and locking down but, if you do get it, it kills you one day after infection at a 100% rate. We'll get rid of the human detritus (aka Repug motherfuckers) in society that caused this pandemic to go on and on because they were fucking ignorant morons.

R87, and that sums it up in a nutshell. Stupid people who don’t get the vaccine and think that 5G chips are being implanted into people are directly responsible for all the new mutations. Of course, there’s also the fact that some countries are slow and lagging behind when it comes to vaccinating.

I do trust science, but I don’t trust those morons. I will absolutely unmask with friends who have been vaccinated and who are responsible, but when out in crowded settings and people I don’t know well, I will continue to wear my mask. I have no problem with people who follow CDC recommendations and don’t wear a mask once they’re fully vaccinated, but it’s also not wrong to be on the safe side of things, especially if you have chronic health issues.

In NYC I used to get six or seven really miserable colds a year. With mask zero colds for me in 2020, I will continue wearing a mask for quite some time, but no longer outdoors. As for vaccines against coronavirus the original poster has it exactly right.

While I am excited to ditch the masks, I am going to stock up on proper 3M masks when they are back down to their original 6 for $20 or whatever it was pre-pandemic. I want to be prepared should this ever happen again. I have so many masks that were all trial and error by designers, sports companies, etc that don't work or I don't fit.

I’m fine with it.

Moving on.....

R76 and others, you're confusing science with political messaging. The science is established, the data is present. The message is politicised as it has been from the very beginning. The authorities are trying to accomplish as much as they can, in this political climate. It's perfectly fine if your activities and personal health are suitable to not wear masks - good for you. It will probably be all right. But for other people who do have personal health concerns, who might live in areas that are susceptible to accelerated spread, who are uncomfortable at this time and wish to remain cautious, that's perfectly fine as well - there is nothing in the science that negates that. There are variants, they are spreading. It's not about who is right and who is wrong; trying to score points off of other people's sense of personal safety, well, I mean, who cares? I'm going to do what's right for me which doesn't include prescribing what is right for you. The COVID-19 virus affects people and impacts their lives in different ways. There is no one size fits all. Hopefully we are nearing a day when the threat of this virus is manageable for all. For a lot of people, we're not there yet.

Every time you get a cold or the flu your body is building immunity to those germs. The only thing those of you planning to wear masks during cold and flu season will be doing is weakening your immune systems. You may avoid the hassle of a cold, but you are not doing yourself any favors.

I'll never forget the time I got a really bad cold after a flight. While wondering how I got it, I had flashbacks to touching the in-flight entertainment screen and eating various snacks with my hands.

Like R91, I enjoyed not having a single cold last year and will take the lessons I've learned into the future. Until the pandemic is officially declared over, I will be wearing a mask while flying or on public transportation. If I feel under the weather, I won't put others at risk. I'll no longer snack unless I have an opportunity to wash my hands, unless I can eat without touching the food item.

All of that said, I would encourage people to phase out the unnecessary use of hand sanitizers. I worry that 2020 weakened peoples' immune systems by having them go overboard in trying to avoid all germs.

[quote] When science said wear a mask and social distance, I wore a mask and social distanced. Now science says, if you're vaxxed you can take the mask off, so I've taken it off. I guess I'm just trying to understand why it was okay to trust science then, but not now. But again, do what you want. You don't need to explain yourselves to me.

I've thought about this as well, r76. I think much of this pandemic has become so political that it almost seems like the left became "We're all going to die," and the right became "There no such thing as viruses." And both sides wanted to fight to the death to be "right." With so much political passion and division, sometimes people choose a side and forget to exercise critical, independent thinking - which often ends up making their actions hypocritical or incongruent (e.g., "Trust science about safety precautions pre-vaccines" vs. "Science says no need for masks, but I don't trust science.") It happens so often when politics gets involved.

Or, people's trauma from this whole experience has changed their mind about trusting Science.

I've stopped wearing my mask for most situations, but if they're still en vogue, I may wear one during cold and flu season. I haven't been ill once since the original lockdown. I 100% don't judge if others are wearing masks and I couldn't actually care much less whether or not others are wearing them. It's none of my business. It is interesting to think about what some of the underlying motivations for some of our beliefs and actions might be, however.

I rode the nyc subway today. One maskless idiot. Two cops got on, stood right next to him and said nothing. Another maskless fool got on and sat one foot away from the cops. They said nothing. Eventually one of the cops pulled his own mask down. The two of them did quite a bit of texting. One of them was hot. The other was hotter with his mask on. That’s all from the big Apple!

A vaccinated relative has vowed to continue to don her mask because her oft-sick husband didn’t get sick at all during the pandemic. No thought apparently given to the fact that she & her husband, like so many, had limited contact with others, & that her husband’s well-being could’ve also been informed by the fact that she ceased her practice of flying several times a month flights for work.

[quote] r80 From what I understand, the more people that catch COVID, the more chance that the virus mutates and new variants emerge. What if the vaccine is far less effective against one of those new variants?

Relax. Scientists across the ENTIRE PLANET are monitoring and working on contingency plans. It's not like they said, "Welp, we got the vaccine. Well done. Time to take a year off." It's true that the more it spreads, the more it mutates. IF a vaccine resistant strain emerges, the scientists will be the first to know and they'll guide the next steps. It's not like you are I are going to know there's a new strain unless they tell us. They're on it.

I also recall reading a BBC report stating that viruses mutate to be more contagious but less deadly. A virus' goal is to spread, and it can't spread if it kills the host. (I'm not a scientist, so I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate - but it's logical.)

[quote] I really think that the CDC guidance to drop masks came too soon. We should have aimed for heard immunity first.

Isn't herd immunity at around 70%? As of yesterday, 40.5% of Americans have been vaccinated - which leaves us 30% shy of herd immunity. Approximately 12% of the US population is under 12 and ineligible to receive the vaccine at the moment, which leaves 47.5% unvaccinated people over 12. Some of that number are people with health issues preventing them from getting the vaccine, but the significant majority are people eligible for the vaccine who have chosen not to get it.

Vaccination centers are consolidating and some even closing down because most people who want the vaccine have gotten it (in the US). If we wait to get to 70%, we'll be waiting forever. I can't see 30% of vaccine resisters changing their minds anytime soon.

Masks seem unnecessary at this time for most people once vaccinated, but if it makes you feel safer to wear one, go for it.

R85 I've been a biomedical scientist for decades and have sat through thousands of research meetings locally and internationally, and I have never once heard anyone mention a political motivation for their research. Believe me, we've got our hands and minds full dealing with the science itself. The complexity and uncertainty of COVID-19 is what most scientists deal with every day no matter what they're studying.

How many completely un-innoculated people have had Covid with few, if any, symptoms. It can't be assumed that all (most) of them don't have immunity.

The unvaccinated should all die

^^^ They will, sooner or later.

[quote]The unvaccinated should all die

If I were you I'd wait a couple of years before you get too smug and superior.

People who've had Covid and recovered have acquired natural immunity. There's no need for them to get vaccinated. The point of vaccinations is to mimic the body defenses of natural immunity without the recipients getting ill.

[quote[People who've had Covid and recovered have acquired natural immunity. There's no need for them to get vaccinated.

But people who've had it ARE being told to get the VAX.

I would ask 'why?' r107. Don't the health officials trust the Covid positive test results?

I don't know, R108 - they just seem to want to get everyone vaxed whatever.

Those who have contracted Covid who also get the vaccine are believed to have 100% lifetime immunity to the Covid disease.

[quote]Those who have contracted Covid who also get the vaccine are believed to have 100% lifetime immunity to the Covid disease.

That one's new... but then again it's all new.

^Thank you, all-wise, all-knowing Dr. Faux-chi.

Since so many infections were asymptomatic and/or never diagnosed, most people wouldn't even know if they had had Covid. For a few reasons, I suspect that I had it very early on, around mid/late February 2020. However, my antibody test in September was neg. Either I didn't have it when I thought I did, or I did have it and my immunity was totally gone eight months later.

[quote]While I am excited to ditch the masks, I am going to stock up on proper 3M masks when they are back down to their original 6 for $20 or whatever it was pre-pandemic.

Not a bad idea R92, though I doubt they'll come down totally to pre-pandemic prices. I've stocked up on some KN95s, but I'll also keep an eye out for the N95s.

I've only worn N95s throughout the pandemic. I stocked up on them when Fauci and the surgeon general were saying there's no need to wear masks. I wisely knew otherwise and saw what was coming! I just ordered another batch. They're pretty easy to order on Amazon these days. The blue surgical masks are rather useless.

I've only worn N95s throughout the pandemic. I stocked up on them when Fauci and the surgeon general were saying there's no need to wear masks. I wisely knew otherwise and saw what was coming! I just ordered another batch. They're pretty easy to order on Amazon these days. The blue surgical masks are rather useless.

[quote] I stocked up on them when Fauci and the surgeon general were saying there's no need to wear masks.

R155 either you are lying or you got the time wrong, N95 was OOS everywhere when they made the announcement, it was sold out two weeks before that, there was no way you could stock up things at the time you said you did.

[quote] The blue surgical masks are rather useless.

wrong again, the countries in Asia proved they totally worked!

r117, why would I lie? LOL. I was able to get a couple of boxes off Amazon just before they began selling them exclusively to healthcare facilities. I paid an arm and a leg for them. I think about $200 for 2 boxes of 10, but I was happy to get them.

but I wont' call at "stock up" if you paid $200, you can always buy them at hugely inflated price on eBay.

The simplest answer to the whole mask thing is that Trump broke the critical thinking parts of most peoples brains.

The mask is no longer about what is or isn’t safe, it’s about HIM or whether you’re SUPPOSED to think one way or the other.

It’s sad, but this is where we are.

Went to grocery store today to get libations and sushi. The store was packed and everyone was wearing a mask...except 2 MAGAt looking maskholes (a couple) walking around like their shit don't stink and daring anyone with their eyes to say something to them. I said something to my cashier who was just pissed off as hell. I told her that since there was a sign on the door saying the county regulations had NOT been lifted, masks were still required, I would have refused to allow them to check out and have them escorted out.

I have 5 days until i am 2 weeks out from my 2nd vax. I will not wear a mask outdoors (unless i have a breakout), but still plan on wearing one in indoor public spaces. Hope the maskholes get sick as fuck.

There’s a lot of social pressure among my progressive friends to keep masking.

R100, you are forgetting to include all the people who have already had Covid in your numbers going toward herd immunity. That number is huge because of the asymptomatic nature of many infections meaning that even if we include all the confirmed cases we're still not near the number of people who've had Covid. I think the fall in cases we are seeing now means we are reaching herd immunity through vaccination added to the number of fucking morons who got infected because they wouldn't wear a mask. The only way we'll know for sure is universal antibody testing.

[quote]Every time you get a cold or the flu your body is building immunity to those germs. The only thing those of you planning to wear masks during cold and flu season will be doing is weakening your immune systems. You may avoid the hassle of a cold, but you are not doing yourself any favors.

The only thing that getting a cold does is prevent you from getting that exact cold again. Being sick does not strengthen your immune system against anything except the infection you have. So, if you wear a mask for, say, two years, and don't get a cold and then stop wearing your mask, you'll just be at a higher risk of getting the colds that were circulating those previous two years. So, basically, you've delayed getting them. If you wore a mask during cold season for the rest of your life, you'd never get them. It's kind of how communicable diseases work. If they can't infect you, you dont' get sick. You're not going to get sicker later because you delayed the infection.

This is different from resistance created by overuse of antibiotics or hand sanitizer because those work on making stronger, more virulent versions of the infective agent itself.

Don't listen to the self-proclaimed "wise" R115. The surgical masks work fine. He's probably helped kill a healthcare worker by taking the masks they needed, so he's also an asshole.

The maskholes of the world are now being protected by the intelligent people who are getting vaccinated. So, as usual, the scumsucking motherfucking Repugs and their red state populations of fucking morons are taking from the responsible blue state population and mouthing off about their selfish ignorance.

Aww r121, you go right ahead and continue wearing that precious mask that you love so much to your little hearts content.

If not washing and cleaning makes your immune system stronger, why not just lick someone's nostrils and get a little bit of the bacteria to supercharge your body? Or better yet eat a couple spoonfuls of dirt every day. Perhaps stick your head down close to the toilet and flush repeatedly while inhaling deeply. It's that simple apparently. Why haven't the experts figured this out?

R126 New DL health tip: Eating ass strengthens your immune system.

^^^ Its where I get my probiotics to enhance my biome.

There is a false sense of security, and that's really fucking terrifying seeing these flippant asshats posting nonsense about not wearing masks.

Yes, it’s fine for those who have been vaccinated to stop wearing masks. The herd immunity that we are demanding is actually different when the vaccine it self gives 90-95% immunity.

That said, those who are not vaccinated particular of doing it for political reasons) will also go unmasked.

That’s fine. The Indian variant will peak in England and the US is Sept just as people are coming inside from the summer. If we don’t get lots more people vaccinated then, we’ll have a smaller but still significant resurgence.

R126, as for eating dirt, one of the theories about why people get bowel diseases like Crohn’s is people are too clean. There’s Lot of focus on parasite worm therapies. As in, the treatment is to eat dirt and the parasites that come with it.

[quote] There’s a lot of social pressure among my progressive friends to keep masking.

Thank you for being honest. It's been as much a "tribal" issue as an actual medical one for some time now.

I won't lie. I live in a blue state, in a blue area and our governor removed the mask mandate, but people are still masking. I wore mine, because I didn't want people to think I was a MAGA. But now I don't care. I'm vaxxed and proud and will only put on masks when it's required (doctor's appointments and air travel) other than that I'm done with the mask.

Genuinely curious, r133....what about the locales such as stores and such that still require masks?

An update on ikea, they still have their sign that says please were a mask but there were some people today that weren't and it didn't look like they were enforcing. Personally I will feel better about not wearing a mask indoors in the beginning of July which will be 1 month after this Memorial Day holiday weekend. Yes I follow the science but the science also says that one can still get infected being fully vaccinated, and there are too many variants. Sure, it probably wouldn't put me in hospital, but i dont even want a minor case of this as the news also showed that many people with long-term affects had minor cases.

Of course. The "vaccine" is a scam

So why do you think July will be any different?

[quote] they still have their sign that says please were a mask

I hope they at least spelled it correctly.

[quote]Genuinely curious, [R133]....what about the locales such as stores and such that still require masks?

The only signs outside of stores now say that masks are strong encouraged for those who have not been vaccinated. The only places where they are mandatory is airports and other public transportation and hospitals.

Thanks, r139.

I ask because the Dunkin Donuts I go to for coffee daily still requires a mask.

Recently, a couple of local stores had mask-required signs, but not enforced. Trader Joe's has been one of the stricter stores historically, but now they don't require masks for (vaccinated) employees.

I'm in shit stain Louisiana with all the deplorables but we have a democratic Governor who removed all mask restrictions. If he says it's ok then I'm good with it. I hope those not vaccinated die soon.

They never enforced it anyway locally, the deplorable sheriff said he wasn't going to enforce anything and didn't. I dont think the city did either. There were people throughout the height of the pandemic who never wore a mask and no business made them, and they knew they wouldn't get called out.

[quote]shit stain Louisiana

Is that near Baton Rouge?

Most parents I know of young children have chosen to keep masked until their kids get the vaccine.

Absolutely understandable—not only does it prevent parents bringing it home but it models good masking behavior for the kids.

Have the gay orgies started up again?

^^^Nope but just as bad.

I get that about parents as well, R144, though in general it seems to me there's a left-wing mirror-image stubbornness about masks that's the other side of the right-wing coin.

Surprised that here in NJ, gyms are now allowing maskless patrons. They have a little sign that says if you're vaccinated, mask is no longer mandatory. But of course they're not really asking/checking if you are.

[quote]But of course they're not really asking/checking if you are.

Why do people get hung up on that? It really doesn't matter if they are checking or not. And quite frankly, how can they check? If the unvaccinated want to take the risk, that's on them.

Because the more non-masked non-vaxxed people that vaxxed people are around increases chance of infection among vaxxed people, however minor.

[quote]The herd immunity that we are demanding is actually different when the vaccine it self gives 90-95% immunity.

Not how herd immunity works. Herd immunity is to protect those who cannot get vaccinated due to medical reasons or being too young. You could have a 100% effective vaccine but that does nothing to protect the people who aren't vaccinated until we reach a threshold where there are enough vaccinated people surrounding the unvaccinated to act as an impediment to transmission. That has to do with percent of population vaccinated, not the effectiveness of the vaccine itself.

[quote] shit stain Louisiana

[quote]Is that near Baton Rouge?

No. It’s about 45 minutes southeast of Thibodaux, Louisiana.

R151, no, that’s not only what herd immunity means.

Most vaccines are not 100% effective. An example is the flu vaccine which usually hovers around 50%. Herd immunity gives a community more protection than the vaccine alone.

So think of the vaccine as a rain coat in a storm. Herd immunity provides the umbrella.

In the case of Covid, the vaccines alone give us much of the umbrella.

As you said, certainly herd immunity protects those that cannot get the vaccine or for which the vaccine is ineffective, but it mainly means the extra protection everyone gets when a whole community is vaccinated.

[quote] r135 - Personally I will feel better about not wearing a mask indoors in the beginning of July which will be 1 month after this Memorial Day holiday weekend. Yes I follow the science but the science also says that one can still get infected being fully vaccinated, and there are too many variants. Sure, it probably wouldn't put me in hospital, but I don't even want a minor case of this as the news also showed that many people with long-term affects had minor cases.

I think many people share this opinion, r135. Your post gave me an "aha." Doesn't the science say that general cloth masks help protect you from *spreading* COVID to other people but doesn't do much to prevent you from *catching* COVID? I know several people who feel compelled to wear a mask no matter what anyone else around them is doing, which is totally fine (and I've felt before) - but if not catching it is your goal and everyone around you is dropping the mask, wearing a mask yourself isn't going to protect you much.

To me, it's all moot anyway because, as someone mentioned above, the chance of catching breakthrough COVID after being vaccinated is about 0.4% and the chance of dying from a breakthrough case once vaccinated is currently around 2%; therefore, the chances of dying from COVID once vaccinated are currently around 0.008%.

[quote] and the chance of dying from a breakthrough case once vaccinated is currently around 2%;

Is this a typo? Did you mean .02%?

[quote] Because the more non-masked non-vaxxed people that vaxxed people are around increases chance of infection among vaxxed people, however minor.

This is true, r150, but because it's such a minor risk, we can't expect business to make all of their clients continue to wear masks. The cost-benefit is not in favor of mask wearing any more. If that is something that makes someone feel unsafe, they're going to have to resort to distancing and sheltering-type measures to limit exposure.

It’s sad to say, but because America’s infection rate was so high, we’ll come quite close to heard immunity even if we don’t technically reach it. Infected people have antibodies and tens of millions of people who have never been infected have been vaccinated.

I live in an area where nearly 75% of all adults have been vaccinated. It’s a wonderful feeling.

[quote] Is this a typo? Did you mean .02%?

No, r155. Of the 0.4% of vaccinated people who come down with breakthrough COVID, 2.0% of them will die (as of now).

I'm watching The War on PBS about WWII. If Covid has proven nothing else, it's that the unpatriotic fuckers who call themselves Republicans, Libertarians, QAnons, Evangelicals, or whatever the Trumplickers think of themselves as, will keep this country from ever coming together in the face of anything ever again. They have ruined this country beyond all measure but they are so fucking stupid, they'll never realize it. Fuck them all.

Scientists have said that there a lot of ancient viruses in the permafrost that is now melting. Some of those viruses could be as deadly as ebola. We need to really educate people on viruses. Covid was relativity benign despite all of the panic around it. It mostly killed people who were 80+ or fat diabetics that don't take care of themselves. We need to stop allowing people to politicize viruses.

Thanks, r158.

I just initially thought 2% was high.

[quote] come quite close to heard immunity

I heard that!

R160, I wonder what these Repug assholes will do when the next one takes out kids 12 and under at the same rate this one took out those 80 and older. That's the usual way pandemics kill. Will they still fight the precautions? Unfortunately, I think they will right up until their own child dies in front of them. And, even then, they'll come up with some God's will bullshit.

The only mask that works to prevent the Covid virus is the N95. All the others don't really do much. They are basically a placebo. Fauci told everyone to use masks (after he previously said not to) for two reasons. First to prevent a run on N95 masks which were needed for medical workers. And second for political reasons.

"Fully vaccinated" people can get tuberculosis pneumonia. We can get malaria or yellow fever or tetanus. These should be bigger worries for us.

What are you babbling on about, r165?

It's simple, except for simpletons. Those of us who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are susceptible to plenty of diseases. However, by being vaccinated against Covid-19, we lower our susceptibility to Covid-19 to that of these "rare" diseases. Sure, we can still become infected and, in some cases, those infections can have consequences, but it's a whole heck of a lot less likely.

Now, I think it would be good if scientists would work on a cure for Dunning-Krueger, so people like R166 can become a productive member of society.

R150 not really. And even on that off chance it’s asymptomatic so who gives a shit? Really, my job here is done, and if the anti vaxxers want to go about without caution that’s on THEM.

I am vaccinated for COVID, but will continue to wear my mask at any public gathering. Not a backyard picnic with friends and relatives, but a baseball game, concert or any tightly populated event indoors and out. I also think it is a good idea during cold and flu season to wear a mask any time you go out. I haven't had one case of the sniffles or cough since I started masking. The spring pollen is another thing. I wonder if masking is the answer to going out when pollen counts are high. I am in the PNW and this year has been awful. I am buying Zyrtec stock!

Rationalization for fear of being thought of as a Republican!

This is going to be a thing from now on. I didn't get a cold last year. Don't tell them that maybe they didn't get a cold because the world was on lockdown and it had nothing to do with masks.

[quote] I get that about parents as well, [R144], though in general it seems to me there's a left-wing mirror-image stubbornness about masks that's the other side of the right-wing coin.

One side of that coin endangers other people's lives. The other side causes other people no harm whatsoever.

I just don't get it. Are anti-maskers not aware than Asian countries have been wearing masks for years - because they have a cold, because they have allergies, because of allergies, or because they FUCKING want to.

So now, it's become more common, more of a habit, in US, when it wasn't before. It may become the same sort of habit that it is in parts of Asia. SO FUCKING WHAT?

[quote] because they have allergies, because of allergies

oops - meant to say because of air pollution of having chemotherapy

I'm vaccinated but will continue to wear my mask not so much to avoid infection but to avoid putting in my partial denture which hurts like hell.

[quote] Scientists have said that there a lot of ancient viruses in the permafrost that is now melting.

I saw a documentary years age about an asteroid that fell near this town. The inside of the asteroid contained a gooey substance that would consume any flesh that it came in contact with. After killing several townspeople some clever residents stopped it by freezing it solid. The long-term solution was for the military to airlift the whole frozen mass (which had grown much larger from eating so much) to the Arctic so that it would stay frozen forever.

Uh oh. I sure hope they put it somewhere safe.

I'm not challenging you, but that sounds more like a science fiction movie, R175.

Bless your heart, r177.

No, really, just...well, just bless it.

What do you bitches think about going back to the gym? I'm fully vaccinated. My PCP and my therapist say it's safe to go back and have been encouraging me to get back, if only for the mental health benefits, but I am such a nervous nelly about that. I'm itching to go back, but I'm scared. I know myself, and I know I will get all OCD about it.

If every other person there were unmasked, the chances you would poz remains negligible (well under 1%).

R175 they have found anthrax and smallpox in the permafrost. Here is an article about it.

[quote] What do you bitches think about going back to the gym? I'm fully vaccinated. My PCP and my therapist say it's safe to go back and have been encouraging me to get back, if only for the mental health benefits, but I am such a nervous nelly about that. I'm itching to go back, but I'm scared. I know myself, and I know I will get all OCD about it.

I was nervous about going back as well, but I took the plunge. They had a mask mandate at first, which sucked to do cardio with a mask, but they've since lifted it. My gym is a lot less crowded than pre-covid, and I try to go during off hours just to be safe . . . but so far, so good.

No gym for me until masks are no longer required and the sauna and Jacuzzi are open as well.

I knew it, when CDC announced that stupid "mask is no longer needed if you are fully vaccinated", I knew they screwed it.

Is it true that if I wear a mask I’m just protecting other people? I’ve been vaccinated Fuck them!

Evidently we're only a few mutations away from complete resistance to the current vaccines. What happens then? Do we go back to square one with lockdowns until they're able to vaccinate people against the new variants. And what of the people who refuse to get vaccinated at that point and continue to breed new vaccine-resistant variants? It's an endless cycle. Honestly, I don't see us reaching herd immunity and see this thing to a logical conclusion until every last person on earth is eventually infected. MARY me if you must, but I feel in my gut that's where we're headed.

R186 Please provide a link to bona fide research to support your statement that “Evidently we're only a few mutations away from complete resistance to the current vaccines.”

My grandparents escaped from pogroms in Russia and then lived through the influenza pandemic of 1918, WWI, the Great Depression, and WWII. If they handled all that, I think I can handle the uncertainty of the COVID pandemic.

DL, I have something to say and you are not going to like it. I don't think that vaccine works that well. Yes, I am vaxxed fully with Pfizer, went dose hunting throughout the country to find extra unused doses to get it earlier than the end of the line, am careful, and live in LA with the required masking. It feels like we are back where we started. Maybe we just have to try to live with it at this point.

R188 The purpose of vaccination is to prevent severe symptoms and complications and dramatically lower the risk of death, the vaccine is not meant to be completely immune to the virus or vaccinated people should not experience any symptoms.

There are not many research on how many vaccinated people are infected with coronavirus, the hospital record showed ~ 1% , the "true" number should be higher than that and the number could very well be "alarming" if that's what you mean "doesn't work well", but that's not the goal of vaccine, the goal was never reduce the infection rate to zero or 1%, protecting the infected from hospitalization is , the 1% breakthrough hospital record proved the vaccines worked, many vaccinated (and infected) don't even know they had Covid because their symptoms were virtually non existent to them and of course no need to see a doctor.