Mare of Easttown: Finale (3)

Link to Mare of Easttown Thread 2

I think Kate Winslet's wardrobe is brilliant. Absolutely character-defining as are all of the costumes (and hair!) in the series. You know who all these people are before they even open their mouths.

...and start cursing like longshoremen, R2.

This show has way too many suspects. They have yet to figure out who was with Erin at the park where they found the bullet.

And why would the deacon take Erin to the park but not leave her bike with her so she could get home?

Thanks, OP.

As for the fashion link, I'ma get me some fartin' shoes.

Billy killed her, but John, Lori's slutty husband, knocked her up. Billy was covering up for his brother when she tried to blackmail them for surgery money.

Thank you for the new thread! It would just close or reload every time I tried to post.

My theory is also killer/baby daddy is John and he has used Billy as a coverup. He probably helped him or was being blackmailed by Erin. I’ve suspected him since his quick alibi for Frank.

Maybe the Ross Family Reunion is the Dark Secret of Harvest Home of Pennsylvania and all the Ross men impregnated Erin?

I’m not trusting John Ross so much that I’m questioning if he’s really the one who peed in Frank’s closet.

So, you're a teenage girl. Your dad is an asshole, you're broke, and one of his cousins knocked you up. Why the hell would you not get on a bus or the train to downtown Philly and get to Planned Parenthood?

The creepy photo probably has John, Erin, his teenager son, and his other son the baby.

It is a plot gap that they have not focused on who would have gone to the second park late at night. I would imagine the town has surveillance cameras.

I have not been able to stomach Kate since Sense and Sensibility. I have to say that she is amazing in this role. It is hard to explain, she's very subtle and controlled. She's usually so OTT.

To the genius on the last thread who posited that Dylan and his father killed Erin when they found out Dylan wasn't the father: they found that out after Erin was killed.

It’s totally Ryan.

Julianne Nicholson can have a film festival with this series and August: Osage County. She is equally dim in both.

I may be proved wrong with the finale but it seems like the Deacon and the Cousin/Priest did not really need to be a part of this story.

R16, red herrings are always needed.

Wasn’t the ear surgery $1,325? Times are tough in Easttown if no one can afford that.

Baby DJ killed Erin...after he found out his daddy wasn't his daddy.

Brianna is a pig.

I know r8 is kidding, but it wouldn’t surprise me if all the Ross men (maybe even the kid) raped her in the cabin.

Haul that turtle down to the station house for questioning.

The last episode is called Sacrament and I was thinking a death and Last Rites, but I found out that Last Rites is actually three of the seven sacraments. I’m guessing penance is most likely the the tie in of the seven then, but I don’t have a religious background. Anyone want to make an educated guess on the meaning?

I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to say Lori killed her

So why hasn't Mare zeroed in on the gun? There can't be many around.

I like the show but it really has too many twists and red herrings. The plot is bordering on making a parody of itself at this point. Some stories are better as movies, and not everything needs to be like Game of Thrones with too many interconnected characters to keep track of. Half the town is a murder suspect at this point. The acting is fit for a serious drama but the plot is pulpy and now verging on preposterous.

But everyone in it is great. Kate Winslet is a genius. That her manner of speech fits in with the rest of the cast with zero indication she's English is one thing, but even her movements are totally Lady Cop body language. There's not a hint of the refined British actress we know and love. Jean Smart as Gran is so good, too, convincingly hobbling around.

Did Gran ever retrieve her veggie bag full of ice cream from the box on the counter? Maybe someone will find out her secret and that'll be the big reveal they'll end on!

I hope it's an obvious as it seems at this point, that Billy killed her but his brother impregnated her -- any last episode twists would feel lame. I also kind of hope that they kill Mare, because her strutting in there like she's hot shit without backup is exactly the wrong lesson to have learned from Zabel's death

Yeah, the coincidences are stacked ceiling high.

I really didn’t buy Daddy Ross just suddenly confessing weeks later that he saw the brother covered in blood (unless that proves to be a ploy on his part). And the coincidences of the reunion shirt being at the site of the suicide was eye-rollingly obvious. Oh, and the shirt just happened to have the date on it! Lord.

This show is plotted about as realistically as your average episode of McMillan & Wife. What makes it all work is the atmosphere and the cast.

I also really want to know what Erin’s dad was up to that night and why he had to lie about it.

Have we discussed how dumb the entire subplot with Siobhan and the professor from Berkeley is? So, lemme get this straight... she has one phone call with this professor and the prof is so excited by her stupid video collage about her dead brother... that this professor wants her to fly out to Berkeley? Ooookay. What was with the Berkeley envelope? Has she already applied? I'm pretty sure admissions are all done online now, so what's that all about?

[quote]Julianne Nicholson can have a film festival with this series and August: Osage County. She is equally dim in both.

She was also dim in the limited series Eyewitness, where she's the foster mother of a gay teenager who, with his closeted boyfriend, witnesses a murder in the woods.

Suicide, r28? What suicide?

They definitely lucked out with casting Kate. This plot isn't as bad as The Undoing, but it's a far cry from The Sopranos. I miss real HBO.

Didn't we see John and Billy discover Erin's body at the beginning of episode two? They were alone. Why did they behave the way they did if they were the ones who killed her and put her there? It isn't like they had to "act" for us in the audience. I do think it is them, but that aspect of it doesn't add up.

They found Kenny

So much extraneous stuff thrown in in the name of character development, realism or humor, none of which is enhanced by those efforts. And we're expected to believe that every single person drinks one and only one brand of beer. And why didn't Mare have the presence of mind to at least bring a covered dish when paying her respects?

The scene of Kevin's legs being shown hanging in the attic was unsettling. Less really is more sometimes.

I keep forgetting the title of the series is Mare of Easttown; the show is about Mare, and the murders are secondary. It's so much like Broadchurch, although the latter was much better.

Wow, there are too many complaining motherfuckers in this thread. One curse of internet, everyone wants to have an opinion without just focusing on enjoying the story. If there weren't enough characters involved to create some doubt, you'd be complaining about how simple and stupid the story is or how fake it is when they introduce someone out of the blue as the killer.

Broadchurch was amazing and very creepy, it was my introduction to Olivia Coleman. Brilliant performance.

R32 The junkie brother of Mare's friend. I think he just OD'd. I don't think it was suicide.

Does anyone know if they ever` mentioned whether Pa Ross was a retired cop who worked with Mare's father? Because that damned gun bothers me. Does someone collect old guns? Was Mare's father's gun stolen?

Lori killed Erin.

The plot is getting very dumb. Mare is still agonizing over her kid but no trauma from her partner’s murder? The plot with the daughter is absurd. I’d ditch all the time spent on her family with the exception of her mother.

This is Broadchurch but not as good. Only the acting and the setting make it watchable.

[quote]The plot is getting very dumb. Mare is still agonizing over her kid but no trauma from her partner’s murder?

Have you ever experienced a sudden death? I can tell you from experience that the suddenness of it can put a person into a state of shock and you can't process what has happened yet. It takes a while for it to settle in and for the emotions to hit you. I'm not saying everybody is like this but that is my experience.

R43, Yeah, she's on my list too. In fact I have it:

1. John, 2. Lori 3. Billy 4. Old man Ross 5. Siobhan 6. Dylan

r44 Mare is dealing with a lot of shit, possibly losing her grandson, her friend's junkie brother, her ex husband getting remarried, solving a murder, the missing girl. . .

The dead partner is just going to have to take a number.

R39 is posting from a “Cal Berkeley” dorm room.

The series is brilliant and all of these guesses, many very intelligent, as to the outcome prove how engrossing and complex it all is.

See, that's what the TV writers and the critics don't get. This is a smart telling of a very engrossing story. That's why it's a hit. Great production values, smart story and amazing actors. Very well done.

Can Katie Bailey's long suffering mother who's battling cancer please get a new head rag for the finale.

Please no wig though!

We don’t want the Nicole Kidman wig troll sniffing around here...

It looks like it's Frank, in the what could be seen in the back of the picture Jess handed the police chief.

Oh no!

How do you see him in that picture. I couldn't. I need help to see it. Please advise...

Ryan still has to explain what he saw his father do.

I can't see anything either, r55. It looks like a big blob and a smaller blob behind a shroud.

Good goin' for anyone who can see Frank in through four layers of muslin.

Erin should have become knocked up by someone from the Main Line so they could afford to keep her in the style to which she would want to be accustomed...and still alive.

Well, the Easttown Funeral Home is making money hand over fist at least.

Is Shioban being played by Shiloh Pitt?

What is the time line?? Because Dylan was shot about 5 times by the angry dad and almost paralyzed. And now he is chasing people in the street without even a limp or a bandaid showing?

Shouldn’t the cancer mom be worried about replacing the 5k she’s took from the store? Or is that already forgotten.

Streisand killed Erin.

They also forgot about the 2 girls in captivity. That barely garnered a mention (she’s fine, thanks).

My guess is Lori, and after her, Siohban.

I'm still pissed off they killed Evan Peters' character.

Some interesting music on this show.

Agreed, R65. And without any nudity.

The real question is: would take John Ross’ baby batter?

Also, it’s obvious Mare is the murderer. She killed Erin for being a little slut and cutting in front of her at the hoagie shop.

^^ …would you take…

John Ross has amazing arms and yummy thick forearms. But Dylan's dad reigns supreme as the hottest DILF in all of Easttown.

[quote] John Ross has amazing arms and yummy thick forearms

Yes I'd love to nuzzle his anal muff. But I still think Frank's the hottest, want to meet his inner freak.

So long as none of the Titanic stans get mad in this thread that we don’t believe Kate Winslet is the Helen of Troy of Easttown.

John Ross' beard is disturbing. It makes his already long race appear even longer and makes him look freakish.

It's going to be Lori - Billy helped cover it up. John is the father.

R72? Stop. We all know Brianna is the Helen of Troy of Easttown.

Not a lot of people know this, but in addition to possessing the most spellbinding visage in classical history, Helen of Troy, too, was the basketball queen of Troy High School.

[quote]They also forgot about the 2 girls in captivity. That barely garnered a mention (she’s fine, thanks).

That's not true re Cancer Lady's daughter because right before they hugged, she told Mare she doesn't think she'll ever be the same.

[quote]Suicide, [R28]? What suicide?

Sorry, meant overdose.

(Potato, potahto in my experience...)

Finally saw a clip from this th other night.

The title has me assume it was about a rampant whore in some shithole town in Maine.

I've been listening to a podcast for writers by agents for a couple of months, and both the agents have said many times that they are always looking for problematic, anti-heroine women protagonists in dysfunctional families ("The more dysfunction, the better!"), especially in small towns, in suspenseful dramas with endless plot twists.

And so here we have it. I guess this is the genre that may define the 2020s in film and literature.

R60, Siobhan is played by Mary Chapin-Carpenter.

What is the podcast r80?

I like the show and don't want to be too critical. I can accept it for what it is, but still, I'm a little irritated by the gratuitousness of the red herrings and by the level of criminal activity in the town:

—A serial killer who holds teen prostitites captive for years turned out to be a red herring for the big murder case...?! And that's just over and done with now, I guess, and I am left wondering who else he killed and why no one cares to look into past cases.

—So many teen girls prostituting in this small Pennsylvania town!

—Was Freddy just there to be a black guy who some people would suspect of being the killer? Why did he have those tee shirts?

—Erin's dad is in jail now, right? His arc was...I don't even know what to think of it. He seemed like a drunk. I bet he had a rough detox.

—After all these shady characters, we're still left to suspect the grody boyfriend and his henchman friend, the guy who confessed, his brother, his brother's wife, and potentially the kid?

—And what's the deal with Erin's traitorous friend, anyway?

People need to move the fuck out of Easttown!

I have a feeling - based on no evidence - that this was intended to be 10 eps rather than 7. This would explain why some of the characters & events seem pointkess...maybe there was more originally. Perhaps covid forced them to reduce filming time.

I think Erin's father had some inkling that one of the Ross guys messed with his daughter. That's why he got rid of the "Reunion" t-shirt. Giving it to Freddie was like putting it into the Goodwill bag. I don't believe the mess with Erin started at their reunion. I think it stated sooner. And I know the receipt for the jewelry had Billy Ross's name on it, but it could have been John ...or Lori using his name.

I think it would have been better with a few fewer characters and four or five episodes.

It feels wrong to criticize the show because it's so well acted and directed, but the plot has spiraled out into pure silliness. If it had a slightly surreal Twin Peaks or Picket Fences vibe, then that might be a little more palatable, but I feel like we're supposed to get a Winter's Bone type of harsh reality vibe and this thing has more plot coincidences than a Shakespeare play.

I don't think it's fair to judge this as a simple whodunnit with a single solution. The pleasure of the series is immersing the audience into a full and complex world with highly relatable characters. The sub-plots are exactly that, they're not "red herrings' but part of the texture of a contemporary town's texture.

All of the hundreds of comments on these 3 (!) threads attest to the series' success.

I thought the jewelry receipt only said "ROSS" with no first name.....am I wrong?

If you think the writing here is unrealistic and full of red herrings, please don't ever read an Agatha Christie mystery.

Agatha Christie would've made Mare into a Mary Sue and would NEVER have a dead victim's mother bitchslap the protagonist detective across the face. Twice.

R85, there was a whole scene in the latest episode where Denny told Mare that Freddie said he wanted to get some gifts for his own daughter and Denny was like, "Might as well re-purpose my dead daughter's belongings..." and gave him permission to go over to his house and take whatever he wanted of Erin's. I don't know if that's a cover but that's what he said.

I really like the actor playing Denny - he's one of the best actors on the show. Wish he'd had a bigger part.

You can't create a murder mystery without red herrings. Otherwise, it would be a straight forward murder case with only the murderer as the obvious suspect.

MoE is great, because the actors knock it out of the park. Not just the veterans. The actress who played Erin made us care about her with the few scenes she had in episode one. Great actors can make the viewer forgive a few plot holes here and there if the actors dazzle and sizzle on screen.

I agree about the actors in this series, r92. So perfectly cast that even the smaller roles and all of the kids are memorable and seem so real, not "actory" at all. I'm reminded of those Brit series UNFORGOTTEN and HAPPY VALLEY and, of course, BROADCHURCH.

I agree R93. I loved Happy Valley.

I think Lori found the engraved locket and took it to the jeweler.

Remember how the jeweler said a woman tried to return it and was very upset?

Also, they showed a lot of scenes of Lori darting her eyes around and looking squirrelly last episode.

Meaning, this might be how Lori found out about John and Erin’s affair, possibly before John even gave Erin the locket. Maybe Lori’s been stewing on this a long time.

I think Lori lied to Mare about not having an inkling of John cheating on her again. Maybe she followed John the night Erin was killed, fired a shot at *the whore* not realizing it was Erin.

I don't get the hate from some posters for Julianne Nicholson. I've always enjoyed her acting. She was great in "August: Osage County", and "Sophie and the Rising Sun", both with Margo Martindale. Though I sometimes get her mixed up with Molly Parker.

Who's Denny, R91?

R88 I thought that too, but on one of the Youtube recap channels they showed it again and there is the prominent hand written receipt that would have been done at the jewelry counter on top, which just says “Ross,” and then there’s a full page more formal receipt that was printed out on a computer that said “Bill Ross.”

I just can't see Billy going to the jewelry store. I think if a guy did that it was John. Billy is a drunk. So IMO John gave them Billy's name.

Mare 2: Truth or Mare

Denny Crane!

What R87 said. I think they're aiming more for a Mystic River type tapestry (a film that also had a lot of red herrings and, IMO, questionable taste) rather than a wrap it all up in a tidy bow.

[quote]Remember how the jeweler said a woman tried to return it and was very upset?

I don't remember this.

It’s there, r104.

Oh right, I thought that was Erin trying to raise money for DJ's ear surgery.

Actually, I just re-watched and the jeweler calls the woman a”young girl.” Doubt Lori would be called a young girl. Back to the drawing board with my theory!

When John was telling Lori the big news about Billy being covered in blood, there was a long closeup on Lori.

She made some pretty disgusted expressions.

Now, “disgust” is not the emotion I would expect here. I would expect shock, horror that a loved one had actually killed poor Erin, sorrow.

Lori’s face— especially when John was pleading with her to protect the family— was more like, “you dumb motherfucker, it’s your dick that got us into this mess!”

[quote]I'm reminded of those Brit series UNFORGOTTEN and HAPPY VALLEY and, of course, BROADCHURCH.

Speaking of Broadchurch and acting, in Season 2 Eve Myles gave one of the most mannered, ticcy performances I've seen and bear in mind she shared screen time with David Tennant (unfair, I know, he was very good in the role). Charlotte Rampling seemed to regret starring in it.

[quote]So many teen girls prostituting in this small Pennsylvania town!

They'd more likely be cam girls. Use a bedsheet as a backdrop, put on a ski mask and masturbate on camera.

R107 A young girl was the one who brought it back, the necklace, so it was Erin

The acting and direction elevates the writing.

Take Mare, who is written the female version of the classic sharp as tack, emotionally wounded, sexily rumpled badass detective with a messy home life who doesn’t follow the rules, but who is so great at the job that she are reinstated on a dime without months of legal hassles, and her union rep dealing with IA breathing down her neck. She just ... wouldn’t be given her badge back like that. Not after a serious of unauthorised investigations. Not after the death of a colleague. Not in any universe. The legal ramifications are too expensive.

That kind of writing made more sense 10 years ago but these days is almost offensively out of date. They even had to ease back on that kind of characterisation on SVU.

For all its nods to characterisation and the web of social traumas covering small town American, this TV show is only plausible when viewed within the tropes of the genre. It is certainly more MYSTERY than DRAMA.

....

[quote]Because Dylan was shot about 5 times by the angry dad and almost paralyzed. And now he is chasing people in the street without even a limp or a bandaid showing?

[quote]Shouldn’t the cancer mom be worried about replacing the 5k she’s took from the store? Or is that already forgotten.

Dylan was shot twice - once in the back and you do see a bandage from the split in his gown when he picks up DJ in the hospital to soothe him. You wouldn't be seeing that bandage when he's out on the street since its under his shirt. Don't recall where else he was shot but it was not anyplace where you would see visible bandages, obviously.

Cancer mom DIDN'T take 5k from the store, it was cut up flyers, as was pointed out several times in thread 2 after the episode aired.

This is why some people get so outraged by plot holes and 'terrible writing' - because they can't follow the information that is clearly being shown on the screen and get easily confused.

Also Denny is Kenny, R98.

One key thing that I think will be explained (hopefully) is when Kenny abducted Dylan to kill him, he drove him off the beaten path to a road in the middle of nowhere parallel to the PA turnpike. Unlike where Erin was found by a jogger in the woods, where Dylan’s body was no one should have found it, but they made a point of saying at the hospital that it’s miraculous that they did and that’s the only thing that saved him. They never said who it was, but I think someone had to be following them to have immediately called for an ambulance and may have also provided help. Is it possible that Daddy Ross got his nights mixed up and Billy’s clothes were bloody because he had helped Dylan?

Then there’s the fact that Kenny, who must have been black out drunk again, after shooting of Dylan, ends up in the woods splayed out on the rocks where and like his daughter was found. And that John and Billy know to look for him there. Those seems like something only the killer could have done, like possibly save Dylan, because he really wasn’t the killer and try to frame Kenny by making him seem to return to the scene of the crime?

I hadn’t seen this elsewhere, that Ingelsby did start with the ending and worked backwards, which does bode well for a satisfying ending.

So far viewing this show one episode per week was a greatly satisfying experience. And DL made it even greater with its great thread series.

I agree r117.

Thanks to the other Dlers.

R93, I hope Mare isn't unceremoniously killed off, like our DCI Cassie Stuart.

[quote] Does anyone know if they ever` mentioned whether Pa Ross was a retired cop who worked with Mare's father? Because that damned gun bothers me. Does someone collect old guns? Was Mare's father's gun stolen?

There were theories in the previous thread that Mare may have had her father's gun in her collection and that Kevin or Carrie may have stolen the gun to sell for drug money. I could see a scenario where Carrie stole the gun and sold it to someone in the town and that person later sold the gun to Erin's killer. I think Carrie is hiding something despite her claims about being clean and not having recent mental health issues.

[quote] I don't get the hate from some posters for Julianne Nicholson. I've always enjoyed her acting. She was great in "August: Osage County", and "Sophie and the Rising Sun", both with Margo Martindale. Though I sometimes get her mixed up with Molly Parker.

I also mix her up with Molly Parker. When i watched Pieces of a Woman, I thought it was Julianne as the midwife in the beginning. Later on, I realized it was Molly Parker.

[quote] Can Katie Bailey's long suffering mother who's battling cancer please get a new head rag for the finale.

Instead of a head rag, maybe Cancer Mom aka Dawn will get a wig. Is her cancer terminal? Will she die in the finale?

I think part of the twists that are coming are that it is not on person who 1) fathered Erin’s child, 2) shot her in the head, 3) moved her body. There will be three reveals and three different people, who may or may not have been working in concert with each other. And of top of that is who knew what about who was responsible for those different things and when.

Kate's side lip mole has certainly asserted its presence more conspicuously over the years, but all those HD closeups zero in on a second giant mole right in the middle of her philtrum. Has she always had that? It's really distracting.

[quote]Charlotte Rampling seemed to regret starring in it.

And after suffering through her lifeless performance and delivery, I agree.

Well....only Julianne Nicholson is married to Jonathan Cake.

It's been hard to ignore, r124. I actually looked at Google images and it seems the mole on the philtrum is new.

I shudder to think what the aging process has in store for me.

John fathered the child, Lori shot her, and Billy moved the body, but John is going to try and pin everything on Billy to protect himself and Lori.

R128 your theory is making me think back to Mindhunter's first season and that Altoona case.

[quote]Daddy Ross got his nights mixed up and Billy’s clothes were bloody because he had helped Dylan?

I kind of like this idea. I wondered about this back in the first thread - who the hell found Dylan and was able to get him to the hospital so quickly? Because that does seem a bit fortuitous if it wasn't somehow tied to a person covering tracks for Erin's murder. I don't think they've ever said.

r124 and r127 i had never noticed that mole either. it could be a prosthetic to coarsen/ugly her character up.

[quote] Thanks to the other Dlers.

Thanks to the numerous mentions here, I'm now on S1E2 of Broadchurch. Looks promising. And Happy Valley was great.

I loved Broadchurch. That’s where I first encountered the divine Olivia Colman.

I never got why Dylan would have driven off on Kenny's command. Even at gunpoint, it's like shoot me here or get the fuck out.

I think the John//Lori/Billy scenario is on the nose. But I think Lori doesn't realize yet that John knows she shot the girl.

How does Happy Valley compare with this show and Broadchurch? I loved Broadchurch--even the third season, when they were kind of running out of gas.

Would it be too strange if Kevin - Mare's deceased son- is the father of DJ? And that's why Frank was taking Erin diapers and baby stuff. Maybe she's the unseen person that's with Kevin in them videos.

They tested Frank's DNA. If Kevin was the father, there would've been a significant match.

Happy Valley is even better than Broadchurch. And Unforgotten is better than all of them.

R136 Not if Kevin isn’t Frank’s son and Mare had an affair- especially if it was John Ross, the serial philanderer who can’t keep it in his pants. I think Mare has a big secret or two that will be exposed before the episode’s end, and that could be it. It would also set up for her to adopt DJ, now that the best hope situation is sharing custody with Drew.

R138 it would be INCREDIBLY stupid for the show to drop a twist like that in the final episode.

I’m enjoying the show but there are just too many characters and too many names. I don’t know who is who. They needed to use snappier character names or a numbering system.

The killer is Lori IMO. DJ is John's kid, Erin and John were still hooking up. And Lori had enough of it and dropped Erin. Then they tried to pin the murder on Billy cuz he's just a hopeless drunkard anyway.

I’m not sure I follow your thinking, R128. Why then would Lori think John was cheating on her? Wouldn’t she be further suppressing Ryan’s awareness and be playing good cop/bad cop with John about it? I mean, it is leaning towards a Laura Linney, Mystic River/Lady MacBeth type thing but why would she open up to Mare about it? And also tell Mare about Billy and John and there whereabouts?

I’m sure the writers are thrilled people think there’s so many suspects but I don’t think Lori is one of them. Yens aren’t thinkin’ straight!

I said way upthread Lori is the killer. the interview where they said "hiding in plain sight." my next guess is Siohban.

My theory is it is John. Billy looks scared shitless at the river - he’ll freak and shoot either himself or John. Everyone will be like “we got our guy” and Mare will realize it’s John - but will she cover it up like we’ve seen her do? Or will she take down her friend’s husband...

Anyway - that doesn’t account for the picture Jess brought to the chief. No clue what that is.

Twitter thinks it's Lori.

With above posters talking about Happy Valley and Broadchurch (which I now have to watch), I want to mention a Czech miniseries I saw on HBO Max called Pustina (AKA Wasteland), set in a dying community.

Like in Mare, everyone in the community seems depressed and angry, and the environment is even grimmer and bleaker. The mystery involves the mayor's daughter going missing. You might want to check it out.

[quote] [R93], I hope Mare isn't unceremoniously killed off, like our DCI Cassie Stuart

Look, I like Unforgotten but Jesus! Some of you queens act people act like Unforgotten is the Swann’s Way of TV crime and Nicola “gulp” Walker is spiritual child of Sarah Bernhardt and Ralph Richardson.

I haven't mentioned Unforgotten here, but I really enjoy it as well. I think it's because the two lead investigators are very quiet, thoughtful but clever individuals. They don't reflect the detective cliché of being hardbitten, driven and misunderstood outsiders with a good heart. Mare falls into that trope, even though I like the series a lot.

I really enjoyed Unforgotten but I liked Happy Valley the best. There are a lot of good British ones.

[quote]will she take down her friend’s husband

Absolutely. She can't stand that guy and keeps hoping her friend will dump him. She actually all but said so when Lori (who is definitely the killer) told her about him cheating.

Lori was a little TOO quick to reveal the "secret" she had just promised her husband to not tell about Billy's confession, wasn't she.

I didn’t realize that the actress playing Drew’s mother is the daughter of Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick. She’s quite lovely.

[quote]I loved Broadchurch. That’s where I first encountered the divine Olivia Colman.

Don't you mean horse woman Olivia Colman?

If Lori is indeed the murderer, then her husband is killing his own brother to frame him for the murder to keep his own family save. Add the son, who could be the dad of Erin's baby (at the family reunion) and the whole family is covering for each other.

Now that should get Mare to question her judgement skills when it comes to her friends. On top of everything else going on in her life.

The son is about 12 years old, so probably not the father. Pretty sure that would be John, Lori's husband.

Unless, of course, it IS the son, and that's the secret that his dad wanted kept "just between us."

Yeah, for Ryan to be the father, he'd have been a 10 year old boy raped by his second cousin.

I think the show will end with Mare carrying her best friend Lori's secret to the grave.

Food for thought: The Sheehan family has a history of "generational" suicide.

I just got to episode 3. Her hair looks like shit with those dark roots. Deliberate to look like a broad living in a dying rust belt town?

I didn't even recognize Ben Miles in this.

Thanks for the spoiler, R119 and, in the future, pay attention to those saying they're new to certain series which until recently have been unavailable to viewers outside Britain.

I apologize profusely, r159. I realized what I had done a few minutes after posting and tried to get it removed. I guess TPTB are on vacation or in detox.

Apology accepted, R160; no hard feelings.

Thank you. I have worried about it.

I was spoiled by Twitter, so I feel your pain.

The nepotism girl playing Drew's mother is cute, but she can't act at all. Her character is totally unsympathetic but I don't think she's supposed to be. She also has huge distracting moles on the left side of her face, which she's ostensibly self conscious about since looking through Google Images you can see she wears her hair in a side part to cover them and often poses angling the other side of her face.

I always wonder why incredibly rich people don't just get big moles removed, especially when they clearly don't like them.

^^^ She must get them from her mother.

Sometimes the mole is too large to remove without risking scarring.

But I think I’d take my chances.

R44 Mare coming back home after getting slapped by Colin's mom. Her mom asks how she is.... she falls apart unlike at any moment in the story. Her mom totters over to her and Mare sobs in her arms. In her mom's arms, whom she's been so steely against. Colin's death absolutely affects her and even (I'd deduce) causes her to go back to the therapist voluntarily. Her response to Pearce "I've got to get my shit together... I can't do this." Mare has been profoundly opened up... and Colin's death was, at least, part of the reason.

Did you fart? No, I got new shoes. The dialog of the year.

Lori did it, with her dad's gun.

Sosie Bacon has a huge jaw. i'm guessing Kevin and Kyra were to cheap or loss too much to Bernie Madoff to get surgery for Sosie.

Mare is functioning against the strain of yet another episode of depression. I hope she makes it out alive.

I still don't buy that the killer is Lori.

R170 And that’s just how Lori likes it.

Who knew she would be at the area she was shot, and did they dump her body at the forest because they knew she had been there earlier? I would think the killer knew her whereabouts at the time she was killed because she likely told the killer (or someone close to the killer) where she was - like maybe she tried blackmailing the father with the threat of exposing him if he didn’t give her money, and the killer said “let’s meet” and came to her location with the gun instead of cash? The gun might have been to just scare her, and not actually for the purpose of killing her, but that’s an unknown. If John is the father, then that could mean Lori intercepted texts between Erin and John that night and thought she’d deal with Erin on her own. It could also mean another scenario, though more unlikely, that someone like Ryan intercepted the texts and was angry that Erin was ruining his dad’s life or threatening his family. If that’s the case, then Billy and John could have moved Erin’s body in order to protect Ryan, and John wants to pin it on Billy to protect Ryan. John could also be manipulating it that way to protect Lori. I dunno, guess we’ll find out Sunday.

I guess it could mean Erin also accused John of being the father, and told Lori. But then there would be records of these texts or calls, so probably just ignore my theories 🤓

Damn it. I'm rewatching from the second episode and when Erin's best friend, Jess, goes to Lore's house with her mother to admit that Erin told her Dylan wasn't the father, Lori *does* look kind of nervous, especially when she's asking "why are coming to ME with this?". I don't know, I'm watching John and Billy's reactions closely, too. Kenny being in almost the same position as his daughter is still freaky. The brothers were upset because they were afraid Kenny might have killed himself, and I wonder if the gun Kenny used is in evidence or if its the same one Billy saw in the tackle box.

Also, Dylan was only shot once, the second bullet didn't hit him.

I could see how the suggestion that Frank was the father was something Lori would want to push. If she did it, however, John doesn't know. She is the one who tells him the news that Erin is dead after Mare asks her to get Kenny's cousins to meet her at the house. So then why is John talking Billy into taking the fall?

What I don't get is that if John's the father, why didn't Erin just threaten him for the money for the baby's ear surgery? Hell, she didn't even have to threaten him, just guilt him into it.

I still want to know the story of Kathy Lahey's son, the kid who was peeking into the old lady's windows.

Ryan impregnated all the knocked up teens in town.

I love Nicola Walker and didn't know about the show Unforgotten - i'll have to check that out.

R174 how many men have killed women for the crime of getting knocked up by him? Totally believable that John decided to "get rid of the problem"

If Lori is the killer maybe she meant to shoot John and Erin got killed by accident. When they went to the park to look for bullet shells didn't Mare say Erin could have gotten hit by a ricochet? Or id I make that up on my own?

Where are Unforgotten and Happy Valley streaming? I don't see them on Netflix. I loved Broadchurch. Olivia Colman was very good.

R178 - mare said the bullet ricocheted. The tip of Erin’s finger was blown off, suggesting she put her hand up, likely to her head, or potentially if she was getting between the bullet and intended target?

Didn’t Mare tell the chief that the wound was caused by a gun being shot close? She motioned like gun to head.

Would Lori really put a gun to Erin’s head and shoot her? A young teen impregnated by an adult cousin?

Seems far fetched. But you all might be right.

I'm rewatching Mare, when Lori first appears in ep 2, she has a Dave Matthews Band t-shirt with a red silhouette in the back, positioned how Erin was found.

Also, the deacon said that Erin was very upset after getting a call, then she asked him to take her to the park where she wound up getting killed.

R179, The first three seasons of Unforgotten are on Amazon. You might find all four on YouTube if iTV has a channel.

Happy Valley was showing on Netflix at one time, but it may only be available on BritBox or Acorn.

Good luck.

Who killed Erin - the suspects rated:

Not sure if all 4 seasons are there but UNFORGOTTEN was also streaming on PBS Passport.

The only weak season is the 4th, the most recent.

If Lori knew/thought John was DJ's father and she killed Erin because if it, why in episode three does Lori go to Mare's house to tell her that Jess came by and told her that Dylan isn't DJ's father but that Frank might be? Wouldn't Lori just not mention it to Mare if she already knew/thought her husband was the real father?

R187 throw her off the track. Duh

All I can say is if Lori turns out to be the killer she is one stone cold bitch to be that close to Mare and think she can get away with it.

There should have been some reference to looking for Hilary in the coverage of Missy and Katie coming home.

How does that throw Mare off the track r188? Mare had no idea the kid wasn't Dylan's, she had no reason to think about it until Lori said something.

You just know that John has a shitty character after making his 70 year old dad take the bottom of the mattress up the stairs.

The mystery picture - who or what is in it? I would assume a pic of Erin with either Billy or John wouldn’t spark any suspicion in Mare’s boss. Unless it was a picture of Erin getting fucked by one of them, a picture of her and her uncles wouldn’t seem suspicious. A picture of Erin with Mare’s son might, however, if he turned out to be the father. There are two old guns at play - Mare has one also. It’s still possible Siobhan is the killer. As online speculators have pointed out, it would play with the notion that Siobhan will never get to escape Easttown by going off to college. Maybe Siobhan found out that night and thought Erin pushed her brother to commit suicide. This theory could be way off. At any rate, I feel like there has to be some big, final twist.

I think they're just going to stick to basics. I know it's fun to speculate but "who killed Erin?!" isn't really the point. It seems like it'll be wrapped up in the first 10 minutes?

Oooh, Oooh - I had Siohban as my 2nd choice after Lori!

I want to say thank you for all the Mare of Easttown bitches who have been watching and weighing in this show. It's been great and I've loved it and all of you. :) Shit i've had little to connect with others on in the past few months/year. Nice to have discussion about a great show. Now go ahead and shit on me. :) i'll still love you.

Stupid thread but nonethless: Mod pizza vs. Pieology? i haven't had the other so don't ask me...just between these two.

I'm sorry, the pizza thread was for another window. Please disregard!!!!

We love you back, r196. I feel the same way.

R196 - I love you, too. Here's a picture of Winslet when she played a beauty.

Here's the two things I'm focused on: The gun, obviously. How many of those old ones are out here, and secondly, who ever killed her knew where she was, knew she had gone to the park thinking she had a date to meet a guy, and instead, she was beaten by that evil ugly Troll girl while punk ass Dylan watched.

OK. People saw her get beaten, Siobhan tries to help her but she refuses and she sort of just wanders off.... All those kids, who were there were witnesses. So is that when she calls the Deacon? How does she get to the murder location? And then who ever killed her brought her body back close to where the beating took place, and arranged her body there.

IMO the murder and the paternity are not connected. I'm beginning to think Dylan looks good for the killing. And either Billy or John looks good for the paternity. Didn't Lori and John offer to take Erin's baby and raise it, and at the time Mare thought that was odd, like why would they, then she thought well they're family, etc. So yeah John or Billy look good for the rape/Incest thing.

But as I sit here arguing with myself, I have to look at the Billy and John and the conversation where Bill admits he killed her, etc. so I back myself into another dead end.

Bottom line is they are going to have to do a damned good job of explaining how Erin got killed in one place and found in another. And how did her killer know where she would be after she left that group of nasty kids.

I have really enjoyed this thread too R196 (and of course the show!). Lots of interesting discussion and theories here. I usually watch a series when it has all been released and this is the first time in about a decade where I have been forced to watch it in weekly episodes like the old days. I've been really excited and looking forward to the show all week and that's a new (old) thing for me. The last show I did that with was probably Heroes.

Also I'd like to thank the posters who were talking about Stephen King's "The Outsider" in thread 1. I read that book last year and had no idea it had been made as a TV series by HBO. I have now watched that series and really enjoyed it (as much as possible with Holly becoming such a dominant and central character which was completely different to the book). But thanks posters in the first thread for alerting me to that!

Can't wait for the final episode of Mare!

I can't wait for the finale! I'll be sad to see it go, though!

Continuing to muse over how the "plot" will resolve. Yes, there are red herrings/MacGuffins all over this story, but there are a couple relevant details that must be explained in the dénouement or resolution.

1. How did the Deacon get the bike the night of the murder, and why did he throw it in the river and not tell anyone? His explanations are inadequate.

2. Billy came home covered in blood the night of the murder.

As has been said, it's refreshing to actually have to wait a week to ponder the story, and not binge watch like a crack addict.

r201 -- Maybe I can help.

None of the guns we have seen - not in the tackle box, not Dawn's, not Dylan's, not Mare's, the killer/sex slaver's, nor Zabel's is an old Colt .38 policeman's special. It looks like something shown below. '

There are 3 locations for Erin's death.

- The woods where Erin was beaten up by Brianna, filmed by Dylan and his friend, Siobahn saw her there. Jesse, her mother, and maybe even Kenny knew she would be there. - Brandywine, where Erin was killed. The deacon mentions she received a text, got crazy, insisted on being driven there, and then jumped out and ran into Brandywine. With the bike still in his Volvo, he drove away afraid. - Someone or someones moved Erin's body back to the stone creek area where she was found.

I agree that the picture does not show Billy nor even John, as that would not be enough for the chief to insist on letting Mare right away.

Thanks R205. Now whoever moved he dead body from Brandywine where she was shot, back to the stone creek area where she was found had to have been aware that the stone creek was close to where she was originally beaten by Brianna. They were either stalking he following he all evening, or they knew she had been in the forest where she was beaten. So who may have know she was going to meet someone there besides Jess. She did tell Jess. Seems like who eve was thee o knew she was going there is the person who killed her. Because that's where they staged her dead body. But the killer of course murdered her in Brandywine.

[quote]R150 Lori was a little TOO quick to reveal the "secret" she had just promised her husband to not tell about Billy's confession, wasn't she.

Her serial CHEATER husband. That she threw out.

The baby did it.

(I hate kids.)

This is going to sound weird, but I think its Frank in that photo. I was just watching the scene earlier tonight and you can see pretty clearly that there is quite a big man on the right of the photo (our left) and the image looks like the man is wearing glasses. I see no shape of a beard. And the neck of the sweater looks like a collared vee, similar to one we already saw Frank wear before.

I have no idea how Frank could possibly play into all of this, but ... for a twist, that would be one. John and Billy did *something*, however, and John is definitely the father of Erin's baby, yet - as some have pointed out - why would the sheriff have told the cop to call Mare and stop her if it was John or Billy in the picture? I still think that John is trying to set up Billy and plans on shooting him, but what they actually did I have no idea anymore. I am not buying into the Lori theory, though.

So who killed Laura Palmer? In a town like Easttown no one is innocent.

r172 (and others): the person who knows where Erin is in the woods is the person who called her cell when she was in the car with Deacon Whoever. After that call, Erin asked the Deacon to drive her to that state park.

I think it’s the daughter with Downs.

She’s jealous that all the men had the hots for Erin.

OK. Good point R211. But that person would have had to bring her body back, which means they had to know where she was first assaulted by Brianna, because binging her body back was a very deliberate act.

Okay, good, r213. So the killer is someone who knew Erin had been in the woods. That suggests Siobhan, but that only makes sense to me if Kevin was DJ's father, and I don't know if the timeline supports that--wasn't he dead before Erin got pregnant? That place in the woods is obviously a popular meeting place for local kids, so maybe the killer took her there because it seemed like a good place for her to be found?

Query: how did the killer get Erin's body into the woods and onto the rocks? It looks like that area would have been teeming with kids until very early in the morning. Why wasn't he/she seen?

R214, yes it was risky to place Erin there. You mention Siobhan, but you'd have to add Dylan, Brianna and his friend to the list of people knowing she was there. Now, she had to be transported from the scene of the killing to the scene where she was found. Dylan has a car. But how did they even know she was at Brandywine Park. She was picked up by the Deacon...who also has a car. So he picks her up. She has been beaten and they probably talk about it, because she is upset. But if the Deacon was telling the truth, she asked him to bring her to Brandywine and someone was there waiting, and shot her? Mare said that according to phone records, Deacon was the last person to talk to her? Did they find her phone? There is reason to look at both Dylan and the Deacon as potential perps, IMO. Did someone call her while she was with the Deacon, and tell her to go to the Brandywine Park to meet them, and then know enough about her itinerary that night to bring her back to the creek??

The only person who knows she was at Brandywine park is the person who called her cell when she was with the Deacon and told her to go there--and the Deacon, but I don't think it was him. And I don't think it was any of the kids--she wouldn't have agreed to meet them there. Unless Dylan said he had $1700 for the ear surgery and would meet her in the park and hand it over.

I've felt fairly confident that Lori or John did the killing, but neither of them could have picked up Erin's dead body and moved it to the spot where she was found--John was struggling to carry a mattress up a flight of stairs. Now I'm thinking Lori did it and called John--John and Billy drove to the park and moved the body. Remember how triggered Billy was when John asked him to help move the mattress?

Those of you claiming Lori or Siobhan killed Erin can't be serious?

It would be so out of character for either woman to murder a young girl and so unlike the work of the writers who have created this brilliant series.

I'm old so forgive me if this is a stupid question but isn't very odd these days for teenagers to have a paper photo of anything?

How soon did the beating and humiliation video of Erin get uploaded, did the person who lured her to the park see it and text her to meet? Otherwise, the most likely person to get Erin that emotional and willing to venture into the park at night (and still be slightly trusting) would be Dylan saying he wanted to meet her and apologize and maybe even sweeten the deal by saying he’ll give her the money. I really feel confident that Dylan’s the drug dealer, we don’t have an identified character in the town to do that, yet it’s central to the town’s issues. Dylan having a very nice truck and possibly the disposable income for the operation are other reasons I think he’s the drug dealer and that is the secret bonding Jess, Dylan and Sean. Also, I think Freddie was murdered by the drug dealer, maybe he saw something and was extorting them. They fooled with the fentanyl content of his fix and did him in.

One plot hole is they know Erin’s bloodied body was moved from the murder location to the wooded stream. Yet, they’ve never tested Kenny’s, the deacon’s or Dylan’s vehicle. It is highly unlikely that this was planned, so the killer wouldn’t have had a setup for the transport like tarps or plastic sheeting and some DNA seems to get left behind regardless.

I've forgotten how the police know that Erin's body was moved to the location where she was found. Can anyone please enlighten me? TIA!

BINGO, R216! This makes sense!

R221 Wasn’t the finger tip found in the park by a visitor?

Why was the body moved at all? What was that justification, except maybe try to frame the kids in the woods and that would compromise and implicate whoever transported the body with the DNA left behind? Also, whoever moved the body wanted her to be found, placing her prominently out on the open, not hiding the body under leaves or half buried somewhere. Was her murder a warning to others, this is what you get if you cross us?

deacon didnt say that she got hysterical when she got the message.

The only thing that makes me think that Lori might have done it is that Julianne Nicholson is too good an actress for the size of hat role otherwise, but then the same could be said of Guy Pearce and I don't in any way think he's the killer; I just think he did his friend Kate Winslet a favor when the original actor fell through.

Yes, he did, r225. She then insisted that he drive her to Brandywine Park and she rushed from the car when they arrived. If the call was from Dylan saying he had the $$ she wouldn't have been hysterical.

Good point upthread about the paper photo. Really odd, unless she printed it out -- which might explain why it was almost transparent from the other side. Photo paper is completely opaque.

Lori might have killed Erin if she was threatening to tell everyone that John's the father. She and John are really into protecting family. And maybe she'd have access to an old cop gun.

I agree that moving Erin’s body to the scene of her earlier attack was an attempt to frame Dylan.

Otherwise, why risk it?

Is Julianne Nicholson the new Allison Janney? That’s an even bigger mystery... and possible revelation.

Motive people. Motive!

R226 Kate and Julianne are friends. Nicholson's husband, Jonathan Cake, is the godfather of Winslet's son, Joe. It seems like Kate filled the cast with friends of hers, where she could (Julianne, Guy Pearce).

John and Lori have motive.

Maybe Kenny/Denny, he’s such a sick fuck.

Kenny couldn't form intent, let alone carry out a complicated scheme.

I'm circling back to Frank now. He's the only one of these clowns with the brawn to move a dead body.

[quote]Now I'm thinking Lori did it and called John--John and Billy drove to the park and moved the body.

If Lori called John after she killed Erin, why then would she announce to him, with great solemnity, that "Erin is dead" in the second episode after Mare told her to wake John and Billy up? Like, they would have already known that. What, they were doing that for the audience?

I agree, R230, but focusing on the physical is very important even when the true motive is not necessarily clear. And IMO the fact that we here at DL, who are outstanding sleuths, are focusing on the body itself, is important. I believe it tells the tale. It tightens the circle. I will also offer that we will not discover anyone "new during the final episode. I believe the killer is already implicated. We have already taken a look at them. it will be someone we know has some connection to Erin.

We have a dead body. A Victim. What do we know about her? We know her father is an unstable drunk, her mother is dead, she has a baby. She has cousins. We know she was lured to the spot in the forest where kids hang out and party, and she was beaten by the current girlfriend of the guy she has told people is her Baby Daddy. She was on her bike there.

When she was found, as it was so ably pointed out up thread, she was not concealed. She was "placed" on some rocks in the creek bed. it was determined that pat of one finger was missing and that she was shot in the head.

After a search, they find the place where she was shot, and the bullet in a totally different place. They determine she would have had to be transported to the creek bed because she was not killed there. (Maybe the person who put her in the creek bed hoped being in the water would wipe away some evidence. )

Now, we look at the people. The family, relatives, friends, kids in the forest who beat her, etc.

The Deacon comes forward. His role? He admits her bike was in his car. He admits SHE was in his car. He admits he picked her up near where she had been beaten, and he claims he asked her if she wanted to go home and she said no. He claims she got a phone call and insisted he drive her to Brandywine Park. He claims she was upset, jumped out of the car, leaving the bike. Late after she is discovered, he takes her bike and throws it in the river. He admits he had a "counseling" relationship with her. He is the last person, as far as we know, who saw her before she was killed. Now. He was a very reluctant witness. Why? Because he was transferred from his other parish to Easttown because of an "inappropriate" relationship with a 14 yr. old girl. They have to pry information from him. However. He does not have a gun, nor does he have access to a gun...that we know of.

Now if someone will be kind enough to fill in details (because I don't remember them) about Dylan, Brianna and Billy, Kenny and John...and Frank and Lori, in terms of how they may be implicated I would deeply appreciate it. Because I feel walking though this one more time will refine our list of candidates. Also, was the secret of who the baby's father is, provide the motive for the killing? If not why bother to complicate things by telling us the father was not Dylan? Such a puzzle!

So three unanswered questions: How did she get from the murder scene to the discovery scene? Who is the father? Where did the gun come from?

One thing, if it was a phone call she got, that would imply it was a member of the older generation, not someone her own age who would have texted.

The men all seem to be deeply scarred and covering for each other. Maybe an incestuous weekend isn't the darkest boogeyman in the story.

Not necessarily, R236. A text message leaves a traceable record of the actual conversation verbatim, whereas a phone call does not.

R238 But a phone call would be recorded on the cell phones records. That's how they knew the Deacon was involved, right? So wouldn't they have known who called Erin while she (as reported by him) was with the Deacon? Doesn't quite follow.

[quote] A text message leaves a traceable record of the actual conversation verbatim, whereas a phone call does not.

That would open a whole new can of worms. It would show deliberate intent to hide your tracks. To what end? Was the murder planned? Was it to conceal something else (being the baby daddy)? Would teens, stuck in a town like Easttown, think that way?

I think there were several people involved to carry out the murder and move the body.

My total shot in the dark? Siobhan and Mare. That would blow my mind. Erin told Siobhan of her brother being the baby daddy. Siobhan either called her mom to relay that info before or after the murder and either one of them met Erin (under the pretense) to discuss things further and killed her. Then both carried her to the place she was found and Mare is trying to steer the investigation anywhere but to her and her daughter.

Excellent point, R236.. and an even more excellent point from R238. However. If it was John Ross, Billy or Frank, or Lori, wouldn't they think actually talking to her might be more persuasive? Even Dylan. I don't know about Dylan. He'd be dumb enough to text her. Did they ever find her phone? I guess they did if they know she called the Deacon. But if one of the Ross crowd called her, wouldn't that be reflected in her incoming call list? Whoever lured her to Brandywine had a car. And it might have been more than one person.

But the poster who said maybe Dylan lured her to Brandywine with an apology and an offer of $$$ may be on to something. It is very believable.

OK. So Dylan and Deacon go on the list.

Now. Kenny, her father is a drunk. Cops ask him where he was, he says he was home all night and yet we see him arriving home closer to dawn.

Didn't John Ross claim he took Frank out to celebrate his upcoming wedding or something, thus creating an alibi with a picture for both Frank and himself.

Billy is a blank for me. Can we talk about how Billy, John, and Lori may have been implicated in the murder? Because Mare called them to come to Kenny's house to keep an eye on him after she tells him Erin was killed. Of course John leaves and Billy falls asleep and Kenny goes out to shoot Dylan.

We do know that Billy had Erin living with him for a few months. We do know that at the reunion Erin and Kenny stayed with Billy, while John, Lori and their kids had a separate cabin. We do know that a receipt for jewelry with the reunion date on it, was tracked down and had Billy's name on it...but no way to know if he actually went to the jewelry store or if someone else, like John used his name, or if Lori went there and ordered it for him. When the jeweler said a lady tried to return it and was upset when she couldn't, we assume it was Erin who would've needed the money. I think that's a correct assumption since it was found under her dresser drawer. Funny that Mare didn't ask the Jeweler to come in and look at some pictures.

Now. Could Dylan have planted it under her dresser drawer (after killing her) and then told Jess to lie to Mare about the journals being under the dresser drawer? Mare found the locket where the journals were supposed to be. (Or maybe the jewelry fell off while Brianna was beating her, Dylan calls her, tells he's sorry, he wants to return her jewelry and give her some money, come to Brandywine.....)

So John, Frank, and Lori are left to examine: I think the only role Lori has is guilty knowledge. She knows something. That leaves Frank and John.

Mare is not the grandmother of the damn baby. They tested her exhusband. For her son to be the dad, there would have to be a last-minute reveal that Mare cheated on her husband and let him raise another man's kid all those years. It would be ABSURD and terrible plotting for them to pull that out in the final episode. It's not a Ryan Murphy show.

Um, if the locket fell off while Brianna was beating her up, it could hardly have found its own way back to Erin's dresser.

Is Kevin even a possibility as the father? Hasn't he been dead at least two years?

If Dylan is the murderer, then he could have used the locket to lure Erin to Brandywine, then he could have planted the locket there and had Jess lead Mare to it

I also believe that who ever killed her planned it. It wasn't spontaneous. Oh. I forgot to list that after he shot Dylan, Kenny was sprawled out on the rocks almost as if he were posing himself the way Erin was placed when she died. I will also say that Billy doesn't seem like a sentimental guy who'd buy a piece of jewelry for a girl.

[quote] Mare is not the grandmother of the damn baby. They tested her exhusband. For her son to be the dad, there would have to be a last-minute reveal that Mare cheated on her husband and let him raise another man's kid all those years.

Well, they are divorced. That marriage must have had several problems.

Erin's body was left wearing only panties; were her other garments ever recovered?

Excellent question, R246!!!!!

Well, she wasn’t wearing her reunion tshirt or sports jerseys I hope.

police doesnt have to acces to the phone, they can trace it , calls and messages, eveything from the operator..so i dont get why poice says the priest was the last who had contact with the victim

*doesnt have to have

The vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true...

I think Kenny is DJ's father. I think Kenny may even have murdered Erin.

Rumor has it that in season two, Mare goes to visit her witchy cousin in Eastwick, RI.

Interesting insight of the show’s apolitical stance from a former insider to Delco.

That's very clever, r252.

Agree with R196, this thread and this show have been a damn good time.

[quote]I have to look at the Billy and John and the conversation where Bill admits he killed her, etc. so I back myself into another dead end.

It's as other people have pointed out. Who tells what, to whom, reveals what the characters think the other characters know.

We saw Billy confess to John. This means that regardless of whether he's the killer, Billy thinks that John isn't aware of whatever actually happened and isn't involved. This is consistent with the theory that Lori OR Ryan killed Erin and Billy merely covered it up and is taking the rap to protect his brother's family for whatever reason. It is still possible that Billy is DJ's father, but this would still work if he wasn't and just didn't want the one semi-functional unit of their family to get destroyed.

We saw Lori tell John that Erin is dead. Either they both know something, and that was her subtextual way of letting him know they're in for it now, or Lori genuinely thought John didn't know. This is also consistent with the Lori/Ryan killed Erin and Billy is covering for them theory, if John wasn't involved in the murder.

I think Kenny is a piece of shit but not an incestuous one. He's just a dysfunctional drunk who loved his daughter. No reason to think he was smart enough or a good enough actor to break down like that AND go after Dylan just for show.

Kate has always had both moles. You can see both of them in smaller form in these pictures of her when she was younger. Especially in pics 3 and 4. They seem to just be growing larger with age.

R218 Is right. Who the hell has photos in a physical format in this day and age.

[quote] Who the hell has photos in a physical format in this day and age.

Lazy writers, evidently.

I don’t think Billy was confessing to John. John is almost coaxing or forcing Billy to say the words - like ok, you are taking the blame - now say it for me. Tell me what you are going to say to the cops. The next morning Billy starts hyperventilating when asked if he was ready and John realized Billy would break and blow it - so he suggests fishing. I think he’s planning to kill Billy.

R259, obviously that’s what we’re meant to think when Billy discovers the gun in the tackle box.

I make and display hard copies of my favorite photos.

^^^ Can you tell us who is in the photo Jess handed over to the Chief, pretty please?

Well, if she was planning on blackmailing someone with the photo she may have printed out a copy possibly to mail to them or as a back up. We know there’s something very telling and nefarious in the image. What that could be I haven’t a clue.

According to the show's creator Brad Ingelsby, the episodes contain enough clues that when we find out the killer's identity, we will believe it was right in front of us all along. In that vein...did anyone notice the graphics on the back of Lori's concert T-shirt, the one she's wearing in Episode 2 when Mare calls Lori to inform her of Erin's murder? Isn't that pose a bit familiar...and what about the words around it?

R64 such innuendos were in The Detective too

R264, maybe I'm dense, explain it to me?

Is that figure depicting a dancer, R264?

Hmmm...and Erin told Jess that Brandon had texted "I want you to dance again," to her, dancing being the one thing Erin and her mom used to do together.

I stated upthread, R262, that I think the photo shows Ryan, John and DJ (family portrait).

Who's Brandon? I went though the entire cast list and there was no Brandon.

"Brandon" is the name Brianna used for the fake guy text-wooing Erin.

Ok, in anticipation of the finale I’m rewatching the episodes. After Mare tells Kenny she’s dead she goes into Erin’s bedroom. All around Erin’s mirror is a collage of things, many of them are photographs of her friends and family, so she was someone who didn’t just tend to have electronic pictures. I also noticed that there is a full laundry basket sitting on top of the radiator. I don’t think it’s there when they come for the journals.

I think Lori and Dylan are fucking.

I think Jess moved the laundry basket when she and Dylan came in for the journals.

I have a feeling the killer won’t have been so obviously “in sight” as they say, unless you pay attention to things like the t-shirt @ R264. Not saying it has significance, but if there are going to be obscure “clues” like that, then you’d have to watch each episode multiple times over to pick up on them, and then assume they mean something. That would be tedious, to say the least.

Yeah, the dave matthews t-shirt doesn't mean shit. It isn't posed the way Erin was unless you really stretch it and this show ain't True Detective S1.

R264 here. When I saw the back of Lori's T-shirt, the dancer picture reminded me of the way Erin's body was stretched out on the rocks in the creek. I'm still wondering how Kenny wound up stretched out on the same rocks in nearly the same pose, the morning after he shot Dylan.

I know the shirt is a reach. Here are some other far-out "clues":

Someone online mentioned Drew's crayon drawing on the wall of his bedroom. In the scene where Mare is snuggling with Drew, she wakes up and "sees" Kevin sitting on the bedroom floor. Right next to Kevin is Drew's drawing. It shows a person lying on the ground, with another person standing nearby. Standing some distance away is another person, smiling and wearing glasses (Frank?). Behind the figure on the ground appears to be a drawing of water or perhaps a tree.

Someone asked where Drew got his turtle. He said from "the creek." However Frank and Drew brought the turtle home a couple of days before Erin was killed, so probably nothing.

Zabel's black coffee tumbler with the badge graphics. We see several lingering shots of it while Zabel is alive, and after his death Mare is seen holding either that same tumbler or one that looks just like it.

Food for thought: Mare finds a reunion photo on a laptop (Erin's?) in which the girl is kneeling and smiling into the camera while Billy sits at a red and white checkerboard patterned table behind her. Both are wearing the green tee-shirt as is John in another photo. The men's father, Pat, is not wearing reunion garb.

That’s what I mean, R275, if the show is full of clues like that and mean something , I haven’t paid attention to any of them.

^This photo @ R276 might be from the same shot as the one Jess gave to the chief, but taken from another, wider angle and including more family members.

Vulture obsesses over the photo and has their editors highlight and refine it. To me it looks like maybe Erin in bed with someone, maybe the baby lying between them?

I am really enjoying the show, but a lot of you have lost perspective and have really gone deep into obsession over it. I'll be happy to just watch it to see how it turns out and enjoy the ride.

I still think the photo is showing Frank. I mean, concentrate on the left side. I can't make Erin out at all.

R280, there’s a subreddit for the show, and those crazy people get the food they eat on the show and have viewing parties and such.

There’s one for “Killing Eve” that’s even more insane by leaps and bounds. People make weird fan art and fanfic and go really bonkers. There are scary people out there.

If past experience is any indication, R280, those who get so far in the weeds with shows like this don’t handle it well when their pet theories aren’t borne out. We can expect a thread’s worth of complaints that [insert name here] wasn’t revealed as the murderer..

I have a feeling after the reveal, i will want to re-watch the whole thing to spot the clues, unless they do a "montage" of clues to show how it was in plain sight the entire time. But i don't think they will be that pedestrian. If there is no S2, I hope to see shows more limited series of this caliber in the future.

I think you may be right, r281. The picture from Vulture is much clearer than the one posted earlier from reddit.

But you can't really go by me. I thought I saw Bigfoot in my backyard last Monday night.

[quote]Lori and Dylan are fucking

Oh, I like this theory. I thought Dylan's vehemence when he denied Brianna being his girlfriend was a bit much.

I'm with R280

Mare: Emmy Game Strong

"McMenamin" is fun to say.

Michael Baumann's hysterical description of Dylan in the "How Will Mare of Easttown End" article at R289 deserves its own, separate comedy sketch.

Any speculation on why the deacon was coming out of a pharmacy? When Zabel confronts him, he's coming out of a pharmacy, carrying a bag presumably filled with medication.

It was an enema kit to foist on altar boys.

R204 the video was uploaded to social media, if Dylan immediately put it up on social then possibly a hundred people +- knew Erin got her ass kicked at that first location.

Sorry that was for r205

r289 - thanks for posting, glad to see a light shine on Deacon Do Good.

Here's a question I've had since the last episode. If Erin's phone records show the final call on her phone was to the deacon, where did the message that made her hysterical and necessitated a drive to Brandywine come from? The show has not mentioned this, and it can be explained in several ways: burner phone, WhatsApp, etc. But, zero information on that possibility.

Also, Zabel and Mare knew of the cell phone dump, but not the Chief. He's the one who heard the Deacon's story.

Is there a plot hole here? Did the good deacon lie?

r296 someone hacked my DoorDash account and ordered a $96 sushi dinner on my account, marking it as a gift and leaving a cell phone #. I was so pissed off i googled "text a phone online" so i could let her know that not only was her sushi order canceled, that if she ever tried to use my account again, i would rain a few bag fulls of dog shit on her front doorstep. All without any phone # of my own.

However, i know the FBI could probably track that message as well.

Yeah, I was wondering about that call. Did they find Erin’s phone?

Lapsed Catholic here, r23. Marriage is one of the seven sacraments. Maybe Episode 7, "Sacrament," besides Penance, includes a wedding? Perhaps Extreme Unction as well.

Good question about the phone records....

R299 - the 7th sacrament is holy orders, or the process of becoming a deacon or priest.

r60, Siobhan is played by the Australian girl who played Ryan Gosling's daughter in "The Nice Guys." Not the Jolie/Pitt girl.

R283 - I don’t think most of us are attached to any particular outcome. I’ve thought of a couple, amongst several to choose from. At this point it’s just fun speculating and seeing if your main theory is right. And my main theory changes every time I read this thread 🧐🤓

I was very curious to go back and read the NY Times review of the series which I'd remembered as somewhat negative, and almost kept me from initially tuning in.

Well, I just re-read it and it's far worse, it's an out and out pan, giving credit only to the "burnished" cinematography. Much bemoaning of the waste of Kate Winslet and other cast members' acting talents. And a lot about how dismal the setting is.

The reviewer Mike Hale states that only 5 episodes were available to him so it's not that he was disappointed with the final solution.

Given Ingelsby’s predilection for naming episodes after song lyrics, literary allusions and snippets of poetry, this might be the fitting reference that he drew from. Episode 6 was from a Dickinson poem as this is too, it speaks of coming out of the long hard winter and the transformation of the light of spring. Easttown has existed in a continuous state of dull winter and with the solving of this case there is at last a break through and the light is shed on all the secrets.

When the show started it was the tenth of January, but the whole show feels to me set in the month of March, the long overhanging month of winter that never seems to end, particularly in Pennsylvania. I do like the implication in the poem that there are some things that Science can’t solve, that seems to connect to this case, in that even with all the scientific tools, there are some mysteries or explanations science can’t crack. “A quality of loss” is heartbreaking and I think the strongest phrase in the poem, it is just gutting like the loss of life of a young mother.

Matt Roush:

The shattering revelations pile up in the tremendously emotional climax to one of the year’s best limited series, starring the terrific Kate Winslet as the grimly determined small-town Pennsylvania detective Mare Sheehan. So much more than a whodunit, the series ends on a powerfully redemptive note, with Emmy-worthy work from Winslet, Jean Smart as her tart but supporting mother and Julianne Nicholson as her best friend Lori, who like so many in Easttown has secrets she wishes Mare would let lie. Unlike last year’s anticlimactic The Undoing, this series sticks the landing.

Oh fuck, I guess Lori is back on the table in light of that review.

“Who you calling a tart?”

Well, we do know Mare’s going to arrest either Billy of John in the first ten minutes, it’s the next 60 minutes to watch the rest unravel.

[quote] Sosie Bacon has a huge jaw. i'm guessing Kevin and Kyra were too cheap...

I thought she might have that intersex condition that Jamie Lee Curtis has.

Is Sosie a gender neutral name?

Sosie is a name? Seriously?

Isn't that what Mamet and Lindsay Crouse named their durder? Alternate spelling, Zosie.

Zozia. Not even close, really.

[quote]Sosie Bacon has a huge jaw. i'm guessing Kevin and Kyra were too cheap...

[quote]I thought she might have that intersex condition that Jamie Lee Curtis has.

Jamie Lee Curtis wields one of the biggest cocks in Hollywood.

I think Mamet's daughter's name is Zosia but she pronounces it Sasha. Or maybe So-sha.

Kyra Sedgwick is worth billions through her family inheritance.

Sosie doesn't care of you like her or not.

Out of all the actors, Sosie most likely has the closest ties to the region. She was excited to do the series so that she would have time to see and explore her grandfather’s work in the city.

[quote] Kyra Sedgwick is worth billions through her family inheritance.

Her estimated inheritance is 16 million. She and Kev lost more than 100 million to Madoff.

Haha!

A good summary

I will miss Mare of Easttown once done. <3 you all.

Same. Everyone in my family is watching/group texting. I asked my mom what she was going to watch/think about when this is over. She was like 😐

This has reminded me of the old Mad Men threads.

I hope in the finale, Mare goes back to Zabel's mom's house again, rings the doorbell, and then when Mrs. Zabel opens the door, Mare delivers a one-two double bitchslap right back at her face, right when she least expects it.

C'mon, Mrs Zabel's response and anger were wholly understandable - even justified placing blame on Mare, as she had no business being involved during suspension. But maybe Mare can take a dump in her trunk, just to even the score.

[quote] But maybe Mare can take a dump in her trunk,

Detective Zabel would approve.

She should just tell Mrs. Zabel that her son used to get fingered by Ryan Murphy and leave it at that. No need to go overboard.

Prediction for tonight: So I thought about everything we have learned about the characters and their actions and there are two things that have struck me: 1) In the cafeteria scene Ryan Ross is spurned to violence and is relentless and 2) when he runs away from his Mom he runs to a park. Was that park Brandywine Park?

I think that John Ross impregnated Erin. She texted him trying to extort him because she needed money for the ear surgery. He was drunk having been at Frank's party but Ryan saw the text and told texted Erin back, telling her to meet him at Brandywine Park where he shot her and then came home, woke his Dad and then his Dad and Billy moved the body to the woods. That is why Billy had the blood on him and that is why John wants him to confess: Billy doesn't have a family. He can do the time. They must protect Ryan.

Anyway, just a theory - tonight will tell.

Ryan didn't run away to a park. He ran to a picnic bench on the school grounds.

Why do you think Erin texted John? How did a 12 year old kid get to a park 13 miles away in the middle of the night?

The last activity on Erin's cell phone was a text or call to Deacon Mark. Yet Deacon Mark claims that while Erin was in his car she got a call or text that made her hysterical and she insisted he drive her to Brandywine Park. Why would he leave her there in the middle of the night and just drive home? Why does her phone not reflect this call/text? How about because Deacon Mark is making up the whole thing as a cover story because he killed her.

R329 Sorry, but no that isn’t Brandywine Park that Ryan’s at, he’s been at school and that’s either the extended grounds of the school or an adjacent urban park. It may be where there was a big event that they were selling spaghetti dinners, Mare was working the grill, they handed out ribbons for Erin and Betty was harassing the teen next door during his face painting. Brandywine is very bucolic along the river with a Revolutionary era building and the bench with her father’s plaque that Mare and Lori meet at.

Would Erin's body have bled so much that Billy's clothes would be covered in all the blood as we were shown?

As much as I enjoy the show, it’s been very hard for me to think about Erin’s sad life. If she was some asshole like Brianna, I could understand why everyone was so hateful towards her. But she was so thoroughly screwed over by life. It’s just heartbreaking.

As much as these characters fancy themselves some tight knit community, the reality seems to be they use this veneer of “closeness” to prey on the vulnerable. Sickening, really. I wonder if the show’s creators intended this to be a central theme.

Ma Zabel works my last nerve.

Notice how she drops the faux chirpy horseshit when Colin isn’t there.

Alone with Mare, she’s just the trashy bruiser her too-dark eyeliner always revealed her to be!

Mare knows all too well the pain of a bereaved parent, and would never retaliate and strike out against Colin's mother. Remember how she empathized with Tony and forgave him for the hurled half-gallon of milk, telling Siobhan the man was simply a hurt father.

Mrs. Zabel knows that Mare, on suspension, didn't have a gun and so her rookie and semi-qualified son reacted too slowly to draw his weapon. Mare, who reached for her nonexistant gun earlier would have had the first shot. The fact that the show is ignoring Mare's rule breaking is a huge plot hole. I'd have double bitch-slapped her too.

[quote]her rookie and semi-qualified son

Detective Colin Zabel was Mare's equal in terms of rank, and anything but a "rookie and semi-qualified."

We weren't shown Billy's clothes "covered in all the blood." We were shown Billy holding an armload of presumably bloody clothes (the shot was too brief to really tell how much blood; we only have Gordon Clapp's impression). The clothes Billy was wearing didn't look all that bloody. Was he holding Erin's clothes (she was naked but no one has ever mentioned finding--or looking for--her clothes), or possibly John's clothes?

R337, I don't think the show ignored Mare's rule=breaking. I think we are all aware that Zabel was in that house in large part because of her, and I'm guessing the showrunniers give us some credit for drawing our own conclusions about that. Zabel was unsuited for his job, and that's on him. And probably some of it's on his mother. There's no plot hole; they can't show us every detail. They're giving us a lot of deeply flawed people and expecting us to draw some conclusions without spoon-feeding us.

There are some good theories here. I agree that I don't think it was Billy, either and I think he is covering up for Jon. When he said: “You made a mess of your life because you couldn’t keep your dick in your fucking pants. Now you clean it up.” I wonder if Billy was referring to Erin and not the fancy woman he's been seeing behind his wife's back. I thought maybe it could be Lori as another possible suspect. I guess we'll find out soon.

Ryan is actually like the titular character in Orphan, a, Eastern European dwarf posing as a child. We'll find out tonight that he orchestrated everything, including the kidnappings of those two random girls as well as Mare's nicotine addiction.

r339, Billy may be dumb but surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to bring Erin's bloody clothes home and wash and dry them in the family laundry room?

Well, r342, assuming that Billy is covering for John, John was hardly going to take Erin's bloody clothes, or his own, to his own family laundry room. He makes it clear in the scene described by r340 that he's sick of getting John out of scrapes--probably including whatever's been going on with Erin.

And who says there's a "fancy lady" in addition to Erin?

Good point about the clothes, R342. The fancy lady - I think she was referred to as 'Sandra' - is the one Jon was cheating on his wife with, the one his son knew about. When Lori asked him about she asked if it was the same one as before and he said yes.

^Sorry that was for R343.

While I agree with all the speculation that John did it, feels right, what does he have over Billy to make him willing to confess?

Could Carrie possibly have anything to do with Erin's murder? I don't know I'm just getting excited for tonight's episode!! 😬

It doesn't make much sense for Billy to cover for him knowingly, that is true. Maybe he was drunk and can't remember and John let him think he did it? Possibly Sandra is a cover for Erin as already suggested? I'm stumped, to be honest.

Agree that John may be gaslighting Billy.

And I think it's possible that Ryan knows about the relationship with Erin and lied about Sandra.

[quote]Agree that John may be gaslighting Billy.

[quote]And I think it's possible that Ryan knows about the relationship with Erin and lied about Sandra.

Where have you been for the last two threads? This has been discussed at length since last Sunday right after the episode aired.

If John has convinced Billy to confess then he probably roped him into helping him move Erin’s body and now is holding it over him - they’ll find out we’re connected so you might as well take the blame. Otherwise, who will take care of my kids (including daughter with downs).

I could see him guilt tripping Billy - He is doing it with his son...

Why couldn't Erin's bloody clothes be left with her body? Or disposed of in the river? Why bother to clean them at all?

Am I missing something?

Well, maybe they were John's bloody clothes, r352. The point is that we don't know whose clothes Billy was washing.

And r350, go fuck yourself, either before or after you learn to read properly. I was resoonding to another poster, not espousing some new theory.

r353, not to be a dog with a bone, but then we come around to question again of why there's SO MUCH BLOOD. It's not like Erin was hacked to death or even stabbed.

But it's fun theorizing. All will be explained in a few more hours! Can the ending ever live up to the 6+ hours we've already seen?

Head wounds bleed a lot. And we only have the father's description of the blood--he may not be a reliable narrator.

I remember lots of blood on clothes Billy is stuffing into the washer.

At what time is the new episode coming out, in central European time? Thank you very much.

Google it R357. The fuck we look like?!

R358 Fuck you

[R357] It airs at 10:00 pm eastern (ET), which I understand is 4:00 am (CET) GMT + 1

The conclusion to Murdur Durdur is just hours away!

Steven King tweeted today that he predicts the killer is Ryan the kid. I'll go with this too.

You girls learned nothing from The Undoing debacle. There won’t be any major twists. Guy Pearce’s character is there for Mare’s character development, not some sinister reason related to the murder. The murder will have a straight forward resolution.

R360 Thank you.

So, I watched Broadchurch as a distraction this week leading up to the finale. I thought it was going to be ecclesiastical, but was surprised that that was Grantchester instead, it’s like they got the titles switched. It was kind of weird watching Dr. Who and the Queen of England solving crimes, unlike not seeing “Rose” here they couldn’t evade that for me on that show. It was very well done and it did stick the landing perfectly with who it was and why. I’m having high expectations for MoE tonight.

I hope so r363. Personally I don't want some ridiculous twist for the sake of a twist. Just want a good episode of television. I've really enjoyed this show, though I did think the most recent one was the weakest one so far. Hope it ends on a well executed episode.

I'm a bit disappointed that the hour is only an hour long (and not two), but maybe they'll be able to tie up everything in that amount of time.

My understanding is that it’s 70 minutes.

Stephen King thinks Ryan is the killer!

Well, at least he not claiming it’s some super natural element like the fog or a possessed car.

I’m starting to believe Easttown was built on top of an ancient Indian burial ground.

I think I was the first to speculate Ryan, so if it’s true, then Stephen King and I are... well... the same people we always were.

The amount of wawa cheeseteaks and hoagies being posted on reddit's MoE sub is out of control. I'm hoping for a really good hour of television, too. I am just super curious and not expecting a huge twist. It's Mare's development through this that has been the most absorbing to watch.

I’m ready for this finale! I think it’s Lori’s husband.

T-3 minutes for those who have HBO. About an hour for everyone else.

Final call: Lori or Siobhan.

The HBOMax app is down. Are you kidding me.

that picture is gross

R377 the app on firestick just started working for me a couple of minutes ago

Omg my hbo max is saying “content unavailable”

WTF

Wtf?!?? Fuck u HBOMax!!!

In about an hour plus you can see it on streaming site. Sometimes takes two hours.

do you really need to a scene of Mare blow drying her cast?

Cannot load this piece of shit on my “Smart” TV.

And now i'm staying off this thread because i don't want spoilers before i see the whole episode....

Well, it looks like it official Mare of Easttown broke the internet.

Hbo should be ashamed of themselves for this

Okay. so the Ryan or Lori theory is starting to make sense now. John is covering for someone.

Yeah, I have to leave now, too. Guess I’ll find out later.

Fuck you, HBO.

Who the fuck styles Jean Smart's wardrobe for this show? She dresses like an old lady living in the 1980s.

I’m sooooooooo muthafuckin pissed right now.

Everything is just fine for those of us with traditional HBO on good old cable!

good to see Dawn without the cancer rag

I still don’t get the ear surgery thing. Wouldn’t the baby be on Medicaid or something!?!?

I knew it. Kramer vs Kramer style.

R394 He would. Maybe Medicaid doesn't exist the HBO universe?

And Stephen King (and others) are right.

Looks like Stephen King was on the money.

Wow! What a surprise.

My hunch it right . It wasnt what twitter is suggesting.

Get those Emmys, girls!

Well, that was an incredibly emotional episode, I gotta say. *That's* why they hired Julianne Nicholson. I feel wrung out just watching that kitchen scene.

I called it!

But something didn’t make sense to me. The old man reported that his gun was missing, but Ryan had it for maybe an hour or two around midnight before bringing it back? When would the man have noticed it missing?

So Fucking Sad

Ryan is going to get so much dick in juvie.

Exactly r403! How’d the old man find it missing in the middle of the night? That makes no sense.

I had to add motherfucking HBO to my Hulu to see this btw. Fuck you HBO Max!

I called it first, R403. Bitch.

Who the fuck would ever want to be a police officer in that ungrateful town? Mare was personally blamed for every single crime she investigated, even when the blamer knew she didn't commit the crime.

Katie Bailey's mother blamed her for not being able to find Katie.

Mrs. Zabel blamed her for Colin's death.

Lori blamed her for arresting Ryan and John for Erin's murder.

Easttown must be the Blame Deflection Capital of the entire USA.

I’m glad Mrs. Bailey’s hair is growing back.

[quote] Who the fuck styles Jean Smart's wardrobe for this show? She dresses like an old lady living in the 1980s.

Yes, it's so depressing someone her age living somewhere like Easttown wouldn't be wearing the very latest in Chanel couture.

Wow. Great.

My quibbles tho:

As mentioned above, when was the gun found missing? In the 2 hours it was gone. Also, the old man scene was super exposition-y. It could’ve been handled more naturally.

Erin gets less sympathetic for me. She’s poor, has a terrible dad, gets knocked up by her middle aged cousin, and thinks having the baby is A GOOD IDEA. Bitch, you were DUMB.

Also, a shockingly bad idea: having Lori take the baby. “Hey it’s my husbands incest-bastard and my tween son is hiding the secret that he killed the mother. Yes, having this baby in the house would be a GREAT IDEA.” That kid is gonna have a hell of a time growing up in Easttown. “Hey DJ, you’re an incest baby and your brother killed your mom.” Anyone with a brain cell would put that kid up for adoption in another state. I also don’t buy that Lori would reconcile with Mare. I was half expecting her to stab her in that kitchen scene.

Was there ever an explanation what Dylan was freaking out on Jess about? Did I miss something?

This series was truly fucking brilliant. I loved the way wrapped everything up and then when you thought they were done, they wrapped it up again. Amazing.

I thought it was John from practically the beginning and I’m ok with it being Ryan. I would have been disappointed if it had been Lori - that would have made no sense.

I just wish they’d have made Ryan say he brought the gun back a couple of days later like the old man said.

R411 No, I don't think there was an explanation for Dylan freaking out... lol then giving the ear money to Lori? Seriously? I mean, fine... It didn't ring true at all though.

Having Lori keep the incest-baby is just... stupid.

Overall I liked the show, though!!

R413 exactly. Does the old guy go out and check on his gun at 1 am?

That cunt Brianna goes to church?

I think that the Dylan freak out was just that he wanted to keep DJ. He didn’t want anyone finding out who that real father was.

I loved Siobhan singing We Belong. We need to find more ways to get Pat Benatar songs on TV.

Laurie is a sap.

R414 it’s like…she desperately wants to keep the secret that her son killed her husbands baby mama. I feel like having said baby around 24/7 massively ups the chance of the kid cracking and spilling the beans. Get that kid FAR away from Easttown.

And kudos on the college lez for ghosting Siobhan after she went all Fatal Attraction.

The tragedy is that two middle-aged women have to devote yet another 18 years of their lives raising children in the god forsaken town of Easttown. The Emmy-worthy scene in the kitchen best illustrated their grief; I gasped when Lori just went limp in Mare's arms, taking Mare to the floor from the weight of her friend. Raw. For real.

Mary!

I think it would’ve made more sense if Guy Pearce had been an Easttown boy who got out, had some success, and life made him come back. Him being a complete rando who fell for Mare was a bit soap opera-y.

And I wish the shooting had been dialogue, not over music.

I was not crazy about the ending. It was enough to figure out the killer in the beginning.

Variety interview

I loved the show until the murderer reveal. Too predictable and what a let down. Why the kid? It should have been the best friend.

Before tonight's episode I was holding out hope there would be a major twist, revealing Siobhan as the killer.

It felt off. Parents don’t move a body to protect a kid. There is too much risk.

Yes, R415, Mr. Carroll said he heard a noise in his shed and, when he went to investigate, his gun was missing. Here's the rub: why didn't he check the surveillance tape (which is the first thing Mare did after hearing his story)?

Oy.

R428 - earlier on it was established that he thought he hooked the camera up wrong and it didn’t work.

Also, if Mare and Lori were such great friends, I don't think Mare would have made sure Ryan was arrested immediately after she figured out he did it. She'd talk to Lori first, get the story, and probably keep it to herself. She stole drugs and planted them in a mother's car so she wouldn't see her son! It's not like Mare is "by the book."

Mare learned her lesson.

[quote]It felt off. Parents don’t move a body to protect a kid. There is too much risk.

You're kidding, right? When push comes to shove, parents go into "mama bear" mode to protect their offspring.

As much as I loved this entire series I really hope there's no temptation to do a second season. It can never live up to this one.

I said it upthread and I'll say it again. The casting and performances of all of these actors, including all the teens and kids, is absolutely the best I've seen in any American TV series ever.

I wished Ryan would have shot the kid who bullied his sister instead, that kid was truly vile.

So, would John Ross get sprung from jail now? I guess even if he does there's 0 chance Lori will take him back this time. Or would she forgive his sexual transgressions because of his willingness to take the blame for Erin's murder? Could this dilemma be turned into Season 2?

That actor Joe Tippett is such a gorgeous bear.....hope to see a lot more of him soon somewhere.

Yes, what happened to John and Billy after Ryan was arrested? Also, wasn’t all that lying and covering up of the murder a crime, like accessory or obstruction of justice? We also don’t find out what the kid’s sentence is. Since he is a juvenile and claims it was an accident, maybe it wasn’t that bad.

John would definitely be looking at at least a few years for the coverup, hindering investigation, perjury, etc.

Billy was specifically mentioned to be getting parole in a year.

Lucky Lori gets to raise her Downs daughter and her husbands incest bastard.

As for Billy, Mare says that he's getting parole early for telling the truth and coming clean on everything. But they didn't mention an outcome for John.

Something tells me those two will have a reunion in juvie, R434; it's just a matter of time before the bully arrives there.

Does Brad Inglseby realize that Mare would be on light duty (behind a desk) with the cast on her arm, and not out investigating active cases alone no less?

Also, when cops figure out who committed a crime they don't go to where the person is and stare them down perfectly perched atop a balcony. With no backup.

If Mare wanted to arrest Ryan in his home she could have just waited until after school. It's not like he knew she figured it out.

But would John not get off easy if he was protecting his teenaged son and willing to go to jail for him? I really don't know.....just asking....

We were robbed of one final scene -- the one in which Erin's father, Kenny, kicks John Ross' ass up and down Main Street for fucking his cousin's underage daughter.

R441 he obstructed justice, not to mention all the resources wasted on his trial

It sadly devolved into soap opera.

R329 here. I got most of it right. I am not saying that to take a bow but a lot of the clues were there. What did not come together for me was the parallel between Kate losing her son and Julianne losing hers which made the kitchen scene the catharsis of the series. Brilliant.

7th floor, Sea Castle, on the sand in Santa Monica

^ Oops. For the "highest floor you've lived on" thread. Sorry.

The plot, ultimately, was very secondary to the performances, and the direction. Unfortunately the kid playing Ryan wasn't very good.

The kitchen scene at the end will become a classic.

I already did that scene in The Hours. Good effort.

I wasn't moved by the kitchen scene. I guess I'm cold hearted. They had just shown Lori visiting Ryan with his sister who made him a card and he said he liked his writing class. Ryan won't serve a long sentence. That doesn't compare to Mare's son committing suicide and her never getting to see or talk to him again.

But Lori gets her son back in a couple of years.

[quote] Who the fuck would ever want to be a police officer in that ungrateful town? Mare was personally blamed for every single crime she investigated, even when the blamer knew she didn't commit the crime.

[quote] Katie Bailey's mother blamed her for not being able to find Katie.

[quote]Easttown must be the Blame Deflection Capital of the entire USA.

She followed in her dad's footsteps and likely knew that some people in that town would be ungrateful and blame her some shit she had no control over. The example of Katie's mom Dawn bitching earlier in the series about Mare and the cops not being able to find Katie is example of people who can't accept that in some situations there is only so much law enforcement can do when they aren't leads or evidence to go by. Dawn eventually realized she had been too hard on Mare.

I have never worked in law enforcement, but I've worked as a public sector social worker for human and public health services. I have dealt with people who were just ungrateful and blamed me for shit I had no fault in. I just learned to accept that was part of the job and I kept my head up knowing that some clients were grateful and didn't blame me for things that I can't control. I have known people who have worked in various public sector/government jobs and they have their stories of dealing with ungrateful people who have scapegoated them.

R449 The kitchen scene wasn't powerful because of Lori's collapse entirely... it was Mare's tentative attempt at mercy, generated from the unfathomable pain of finding her son hanging dead in her home.

What was Guy Pierce doing in that nothing role?

They were friends. I don’t think Mare’s son had anything to do with it. Mare felt bad for her and missed her friend.

[quote] Also, a shockingly bad idea: having Lori take the baby. “Hey it’s my husbands incest-bastard and my tween son is hiding the secret that he killed the mother. Yes, having this baby in the house would be a GREAT IDEA.” That kid is gonna have a hell of a time growing up in Easttown. “Hey DJ, you’re an incest baby and your brother killed your mom.” Anyone with a brain cell would put that kid up for adoption in another state. I also don’t buy that Lori would reconcile with Mare. I was half expecting her to stab her in that kitchen scene.

I also thought Lori taking the baby was stupid. She could have refused or maybe allowed Dylan's parents to adopt him since it was known that the parents wanted to keep him in their lives.

I knew it!

LOL at the child being a bad actor

[quote] Does Brad Inglseby realize that Mare would be on light duty (behind a desk) with the cast on her arm, and not out investigating active cases alone no less?

Years ago, I watched FX's adaption of the Scandinavian show The Bridge. I haven't seen the original. In the FX adaptation, a detective got injured and had in her arm in a cast or sling and left the hospital to head back to the station to work on a case and she eventually left the station to work on the case. It was ridiculous.

r437 Lori should divorce her pedo hubby John and marry Billy the drunk, just to spite John.

Julianne Nicholson deserve an Emmy nomination.

Excellent acting from the whole cast, save for the actress who played Siobhan. She really shit the bed. It's obvious how much the hair and makeup people hated her.

I loved the ending. I hope they leave this town alone now. No need for another season.

It's been swell ladies.

It’s been billed all along as a one and done.

How many girlfriends will Siobhan have her first semester at Berkeley?

R445 But Julianne really didn't lose her son. Not completely. No way would he ever have been able to live a normal life, living with the secret that he killed Erin. By going to Juvee prison, he pays for his crime, and can start his life over once he is released.

If anything, Kate really did her best friend a big favor.

Certainly better than hanging himself in the attic!!

R463 Well, HBO said the same thing about Big Little lIes.

Premiering in the Fall Datalounge bitches - The Real Wives of Eastown!

If there is to be a second season it will only be after any or all awards are handed out at the Emmy’s as a limited series.

R466 considering how meh Part 2 was of BLL, they may not make the same mistake twice

What would be interesting is doing a prequel surrounding the time that Mare’s father is trying to solve a crime, but is overwhelmed by his own demons that lead him to commit suicide. What would be interesting would contrasting how little difference there is between that past time and this present and the complexities of family, friends and community.

Why did Mare climb into the attic? I hope she didn’t ha f herself….

^To bring down the Halloween decorations, Rose.

My life has had more sadness and tragedy than this fictitious show. Why isn't anyone asking me if I'm okay?

Vanity Fair called it 2 weeks ago. Glad I didnt see this article then.

[quote] I think that the Dylan freak out was just that he wanted to keep DJ.

His actions didn't make sense and that was a big pothole for me. They made it seem like he was the guilty one but he was only acting up because his parents loved the baby so much and he wanted to keep the real father's identity secret In that case, why didn't Erin or he ask his parents to help fund the the baby's ear surgery? It would have prevented this whole mess and Erin's murder.

He only found out he wasn't the father after she was dead. Erin getting an abortion when she realized she was knocked up by her middle aged cousin would have prevented this whole mess and her murder.

Isn't it every woman's dream to raise the child her cheating husband had with his teenage cousin?

I'd be curious to know about the COVID-dictated rewriters

Guy Pearce was just some menial supporting cast member. I am pretty baffled by him not getting much to do.

Kate can do no wrong as an actress. But Julianne has this thing about her - in every single role she plays - where her characters are telling you about five things at once. I have no idea how does and how she still makes her characters still seem grounded. It's out of this world.

I have no idea how SHE does IT...

[quote]But Lori gets her son back in a couple of years.

Yes. All that from Lori about how she's lost her whole family because of Mare is essentially beautifully acted hogwash. In those circumstances, none of the three would get long jail terms, though of course John's also got the statutory rape thing going on. Lori lost her family because her husband was a creep and a pedo and a master manipulator, none of which had anything to do with Mare, and she hasn't learned a thing because at the end she lets him talk her into raising DJ - on the basis that he's his son. WTF? So she's going to take him back when he gets out of jail? If not, then why should she have his son in preference to anyone else?

Also, what's with the Easttown social work department? They're going to let this kid go to a family comprising: a father who's done time for statutory rape of a relative; a mother who's raised a kid who's done time for murder/manslaughter; said kid; and the daughter with a disability, who is by far the most competent of the lot. No wonder Mare has an endless supply of crime to solve.

I couldn't understand why Dylan's parents parted with DJ. Did I miss a bit? One minute they were desperate to keep him and the next minute he's going to someone who is equally not a relative, the only differences being that her family are criminals and she doesn't want him. Lori should have left him where he was loved, but paid for the surgery with John's money.

Therapist (to Mare): "...and have you thought about having your roots done?"

Agree R480, and in the final scene with Mare, the sheer weight of Lori's grief and shame...there was just nothing that could've been said.

I have to say as well, I admire how discreet Winslet has been about her Executive Producer status on this production and her investment in this story and character, to me, is admirable especially when you think of somebody like Reese "I'VE PRODUCED SOMETHING!!" Witherspoon. Winslet lets the work speak for itself and the level of her involvement, her process, is evident and clearly permeates the entire production.

R471 The therapist asked her in the last episode if she has been able to go into the attic since she cut her son down up there and she said "we don't go there." So she finally was able to directly address losing her son...after taking her best friend's son from her. :)

"We scream in cathedrals / Why can't it be beautiful? / Why does there gotta be a sacrifice?"

Just watched the finale. I guess my bias against religion made me look in a different direction and I almost puked at that scene at the end in the church with the absolved priest giving a captivating speech to a full house.

I believe in real life Lori would've packed her stuff and moved away. No way is she and her immediate family ever having peace in that town when both her husband and her son are out of jail.

The show was fantastic and made even better thanks to you guys at Datalounge. It was a blast. I hope DL can create that magic with future shows, too.

I don't love that people here figured out whodoneit and posted all the plot points here, but on the other hand there was a new fakeout twist every eight minutes throughout the whole series to the point the frequency of twists eliminated all the tension of the unknown for me, so it didn't really make a difference in the end. It was an enjoyable show.

It was quite convenient that the prowler spooked the old guy right at the moment the gun was gone.

To be honest, at first, when Mare got the old guy, I thought the old guy was the dad of John and Billy Ross.

Sorry, when Mare arrived at the old guy's home,

The one lingering annoying thing is Siobhan's admission to Berkeley. She explicitly stated that the application deadline had passed, and so are we supposed to believe that a film professor who knew her girlfriend just waved a magic wand and admitted her? It's a small detail but it distracted me.

I feel like there was unresolved fuckery around Dylan and the other teens.

[quote]Yes. All that from Lori about how she's lost her whole family because of Mare is essentially beautifully acted hogwash.

Yes, it's shocking that a woman in the midst of such terrible anguish wouldn't think that through as logically as you.

The alternate ending was that Mare has Lori arrested for being an accomplice to murder, forbids Siobhan from going to college and condemns her to a life in Easttown, poisons Guy Pierce and her mother, smothers her grandson and hangs herself in the attic. They only left in part of the attic scene.

Article about the issues with HBO Max. It seems I lucked out since HBO Max worked ok for me on Firestick.

R494 Crashing totally is probably better than the time they put out an episode of Game of Thrones that was so dark nothing could be seen.

Very unrealistic Lori would have forgiven Mare within like months. It would take years, realistically. That ending only exists for Mare's own "closure" and to paint her has the beatific heroine for whom all his forgiven.

Also in no universe would have Gen Z Erin printed out a photo of her in bed with Uncle Fucker. Another contrivance that exists only for the plot to progress.

R496 Ha, she clearly didn't print it out herself because it was on uniform 3" x 5" photo print paper, as were the other photos shown later in the episode. Maybe Easttown still uses disposable cameras with film developled at the Super Wal-Mart photo center.

I do think Lori might have forgiven her. I thought about it during the scene, and Lori knows Mare is faithful to the law and so she knows it's in character for Mare, she has had time to visit her son in juvenile detention and he is faring well with his schoolwork, etc., so that would calm her down, and in the end, she may also feel her son should face consequences for what he did and she may be relieved that Mare brought the secret to light. She told her that she "would have taken the secret to my grave" had Mare not solved the case, and that sounded like a desperate admission that hinted at a little relief that Mare exposed the truth. So all things considered—particularly that her son seemed to be thriving in 'prison' when she visited—I can believe Lori might forgive Mare. Siobhan told Mare she makes the town better, and even after the murder (when Lori would have known her son killed Erin), Lori seemed to admire and respect Mare's tenacity and her morality. She probably always would have felt Mare might have found them out or even might have known as years went by and would have gone a little bonkers had the truth not come out.

How many of you did time in juvie?

I just want to mention that the casting was fabulous - Ryan really looked like he was Lori’s kid.

John better do some time or otherwise the person who gets the worst punishment will be the grieving dad who sought revenge = Kenny.

I wonder what Easttown's population is. In a matter of months, a teenaged girl was killed, a man died with a needle in his arm, and the girl's father, two other men and a little boy were locked up. If they keep losing people like this, how do they sustain a population?

[quote]What would be interesting is doing a prequel surrounding the time that Mare’s father is trying to solve a crime, but is overwhelmed by his own demons that lead him to commit suicide. What would be interesting would contrasting how little difference there is between that past time and this present and the complexities of family, friends and community.

If they want to do a sequel soon, this would be the best course. We all know how series 2 of Broadchurch, originally a 1 series conception, turned out.

If they want to revisit the contemporary characters it would be best in 5+ years time after Siobhan has become the Pennsylvania Rachel Maddow and by this point gone non-binary.

The show was an original script, not an adaptation from a novel or story, and so the creator probably could write a strong continuation since he didn't rely on source material. But if they were to do that, I'd hope they'd be less plotty and twisty and give more room for character development. It's a shame to me that such great performances were overshadowed by a plot so contrived it became distracting.

Ryan belongs in Juvie, John belongs in prison for attempted homicide, Billy should be in jail for concealing and tampering with evidence, Lori should be in jail for conspiracy and withholding evidence and Mare should be in jail for stealing evidence and planting it on someone to lose a custody battle. Who are these fucking people! The only smart one is the lez daughter for getting out of dodge.

[quote][R496] Ha, she clearly didn't print it out herself because it was on uniform 3" x 5" photo print paper, as were the other photos shown later in the episode. Maybe Easttown still uses disposable cameras with film developled at the Super Wal-Mart photo center.

Didn't say she printed it out herself. She would not have had a physical copy and placed in a "secret diary" like this is the 80s. If it were anywhere other than her phone it would be on some secret tumblr or anonymous finsta. It only existed so her BFF could give the police officer physical proof of the realtionship.

[quote] Lori knows Mare is faithful to the law

Hahaha! Mare is as faithful to the law as John was to his wife. Mare respected the law in so far as it gave her a distraction from her personal issues.

[quote] Lori seemed to admire and respect Mare's tenacity and her morality.

No, in real life this shit takes years to process and ends friendships and as Lori knows Mare's "morality" is a very tenuous thing. After loads of shit Mare pulls like she's a pre-BLM NYPD cop and the most censure she gets her badge and gun removed for like a week for acts so corrupt that would have her lose her pension, she's suddenly a Girl fucking Scout.

As someone said upthread, she healed losing her son by taking her best friend's away. That's how Lori would have taken it.

So when Ryan gets out of juvie he will be raised in the same house with the half-brother whose mother he killed?

Ryan's father and uncle did more than tamper with evidence. They relocated a teen girl's dead body to a river and stripped her naked. That's practically as bad as if they had shot her themselves. The brother/uncle was covered in blood because he moved her body. That's some fucked up shit.

They made the actress that plays Siobhan really look gay

[quote] I have to say as well, I admire how discreet Winslet has been about her Executive Producer status on this production and her investment in this story and character, to me, is admirable especially when you think of somebody like Reese "I'VE PRODUCED SOMETHING!!" Witherspoon. Winslet lets the work speak for itself and the level of her involvement, her process, is evident and clearly permeates the entire production.

I also admire that about Winselt for that. . Witherspoon has produced some great shows and movies, but yeah it's annoying as fuck when she pushes her role as EP in interviews.

Well, they got me. I never gleaned that Ryan was the killer.

R506, better to strip a dead girl naked than a live boy.

I agree R484, with your comment about Winslet and her executive producing style. You mentioned Witherspoon but how about Cate Blanchett.. For her Stateless drama, she was the executive producer but also had the credit of "Based on an idea by Cate Blanchett." That was a good laugh.

Brave from Kate to play a grandmother and a mother of a teenager and a 21 year old. Would Leo agree to play a grandpa? Or actresses like Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz grandmas?

I don't fault Witherspoon (who I find generally annoying) or Blanchett (who I generally love) for emphasizing their business acumens. I've seen how actors are treated in Hollywood, pushed and pulled around as talented puppets, and I would want to be known and respected for my mind, as well. And despite the current abundance of great roles for older women, I am sure smart actresses with greater ambitions feel like it's probably right now or never ro force themselves into the Good Old Boys' executive businessmen's club and make it known to the world they are making jobs for themselves.

Witherspoon seems very business focused all around. She has an Oprah-like book club now that has had a huge influence on book sales, and she buys rights to books she likes and gets them made into TV shows and movies that she acts in. As I said, I have always found her to be annoying and I tend to avoid her stuff, but I admire how she went from being a peer to Freddie Prinze Jr. and Sarah Michelle Gellar and turned into a mogul who spans multiple media industries.

I agree. Women have to work a lot harder to generate business for themselves. Reese found a way that works for her brand (the book club, producing and acting in her own productions, etc.).

[quote]Would Leo agree to play a grandpa? Or actresses like Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz grandmas?

Yes, for Emmys.

I think Lori’s life is worse than jail would ever be for her. She’s left by herself to raise a daughter with Down syndrome and the baby that is the product of her husband raping their niece. Her reputation is tarnished. She’d probably rather be in prison.

[quote] Brave from Kate to play a grandmother and a mother of a teenager and a 21 year old. Would Leo agree to play a grandpa? Or actresses like Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz grandmas?

Diaz pretty much quit acting when she started to get offers to play moms of teens lol. But, yeah a lot of actors and actresses around Kate's age would probably turn down a role that involved the character being a grandparent.

First of all, Cameron Diaz and Drew Barrymore are hardly great actors. Secondly, most beautiful actresses jump at "edgy", "deglamorized", "gritty" roles with "barely any makeup" to show off their acting chops and add to the trophy case.

R518 Who said anything about them being great actresses?

I wasn't buying Lori's grief and did not think the actress was so great, at least in those final scenes. Her tragic outburst in the car before Mare climbed in only produced one tear.

I took Lori's willingness to raise John and Erin's baby to be the penance for protecting Ryan.

Women historically have complained about being relegated to playing mothers and grandmothers because those are usually non-roles, just sidekicks to dote and nag and feed and sometimes to advance a plot for men and their young love interests. Mare is a complicated, interesting leading character that would be a challenge to play well and so it's a role a lot of women would want. Look at movies and TV shows prior to the 2010s and you won't find many mothers or grandmothers who have much more to say than "Dear, eat something! I'm worried about you!" (Basically the role Jean Smart played in Mare.)

[quote] Why the kid? It should have been the best friend.

A lot of the audience watched for the murder mystery in the same way that much of the Sopranos audience watched for the mob narrative. But in the end, the true core of The Sopranos was Tony's personal growth or lack thereof. And the core of this show was Mare coming to grips with her son's death, which was explored via the murder investigation. Of course it was her best friend's son who committed the murder. She had to take her friend's son away from her before she could emotionally admit what it meant to lose her own son.

If you took the truly excellent character work out of the show, it had the plotting of a backwoods Law & Order episode stretched out over seven hours.

I thought they could have another season - there are still some more stories to be told. I could see HBO tempting Kate and et all for a new season. Especially after seeing how huge a hit it became.

Thank you, R523, this thread has made me feel like I'm the only one who doesn't think the plot is superb.

The show was very good thanks to the performances and despite the comtrived plot manipulations.

Mare will have a cameo in season two, Siobhan of Berkeleytown, about a burgeoning documentary film director...with a Russian nesting doll of secrets!

The backend part of the podcast has a post finale wrap up with Brad Ingelsby. I noticed this in other interviews with him, after a long sentence, Brad will have a deep, audible shallow breathe intake. I don’t know if it’s a male version of vocal fry breath issues or what it might be, anyone know?

That Erin's bff acted and was dressed like a 10 year old, not a 16 year old.

So all Siobhan had to do was show her film to a Berkeley professor and she got to go there, out of state, presumably for a free ride?

That's not how college admission works, especially to Berkeley.

Maybe professor fall for her.

Yes R529 and she did it after the application deadline had passed. Her girlfriend knew the one professor who can override the whole admissions department process at a highly selective university.

R506 Of the many quirks or unresolved plot points (red herrings or just not addressed adequately?) the two men coming to take Erin's body, strip it to to her panties, take it to a river and drape it over rocks - seemed creepy, odd.

But in general, the best thing I've seen on TV this year. My guess more than one Emmy comes out of MoE.

Doing that was all about misdirection to make it look like it tied into the betrayal in the woods and a possible rape.

Mare's father and son both committed suicide; let's hope she breaks her family's chain of generational suicide. We will never know if her climb to the attic (coincidentally, the show's final scene) was a one-way trip.

No, I don't think that character would suicide--she wouldn't do that to her daughter or her grandson.

This guy does phenomenal series overviews and very thoughtful analysis, I will basically watch a series based on the fact that he’s covering it. He points out that in the doctor’s office it’s revealed that DJ’s name is “Dylan John” not “Dylan Junior” as one might presume. I was busy looking to see it listing John Ross as the father and didn’t catch that.

My only complaint is that the boy being the murderer seemed too contrived. And the men moving the body completely creepy and sadistic. I am also not sure that Mare would reconcile with Lori, who repeatedly lied to her. The whole plot about the kidnapped girls seemed unnecessary and they completely dropped it. B+

R534 Jeez, that's pretty dark. Her snuggling with her beloved grandkid that she now has custody of, leaving him (and the door open) and going up to attic to hang herself? Everything points to her finally coming to terms with the sons death... that actually is more of central plot/character development point than the whodunnit. Her therapist asking if she'd gone to the spot he died. Her opening the trap door was the right last scene. (And an example of why it was a great series, we didn't see her up there, looking at the rafters in some melodramatic way. The performances and direction in the series were excellent.)

She goes to the attic to begin grieving, not to kill herself. Jeez you guys.

r519 this post

[quote]Brave from Kate to play a grandmother and a mother of a teenager and a 21 year old. Would Leo agree to play a grandpa? Or actresses like Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz grandmas?

said that Kate Winslet is "braver" than her contemporaries to play a grandmother in her late 40s and used Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz as comparison and I couldn't work out why, because they are primarily sunny California comediennes who barely act these days and would never be considered for this kind of work (even though Diaz famously went fug for Spike Jonze 20 years ago and both of them have acted in dramas with various levels of success).

Having checked IMDb, others born the same year as Winslet are Angelina Jolie, Linda Cardellini, Charlize Theron, Mireille Enos, Marion Cotillard and with the possible exception of Jolie who can't be parted from her wig and eyeliner to play a firefighter, all of them would play Mare in a flash.

If you guys had watched until the end of the credits, you would have seen the camera pan up to reveal Mare's dangling feet and then her purple face with bulging eyes and a swollen tongue protruding from her face as she hung from the rafters. And then it pans over to reveal Siobhan and Grandma high fiving.

Here's another commentary on the finale

I did find it interesting that the during the interviews at the end Jean Smart said the first scene she filmed was the wake for Betty. That dispels the idea that Betty’s character was killed off because the actress was ill and dying. Also the symmetry of grief of her husband at the end is a key plot point with Mare showing kindness and sticking around to actually talk to him which leads her to the truth.

I proposed the prequel dealing with her father, it would be interesting to have Winslet play her own mother in the series if they went that route.

R540 Kate is 45, not in her late 40s.

Loved the whole series but I must say the kid who played Ryan wasn't a very good actor. Or maybe the director should've done more takes.

R545 = Catherine Zeta-Jones

R500, they maintain the population because none of the teenage girls will have abortions.

R547 I don't know what that means but ok

I’m in awe of the fact that Mare’s dark roots/blonde ends ratio remained the same over a year’s time. Amazing.

(Seriously, the wigs on this show were absolutely pitiful. They were bad on “The Undoing”, too.)

Likewise the girl who was missing for a year had a perfect “lob”.

So what does Ingelsby have against Bates College, was it his first choice and he didn’t get in?

Lori always looked hungover.

You’d be a drinker too if you had Lori’s life.

1. I thought Frank and Mare were going to reunite after Faye flew the coop. They clearly still have chemistry.

2. How did Dylan's mild-mannered parents produce such a slime-bag son?

3. DelCo is a nice, bucolic area outside of Philly. Why didn't they set this in steel country?

because the writer and/or director had some connection to DelCo.

[quote]I am also not sure that Mare would reconcile with Lori, who repeatedly lied to her.

While I am absolutely sure that she would.

So many unanswered questions, such as was Dylan cut or uncut? A slip of that hospital gown could easily have solved that mystery.

R558, exactly. We could at least have had an ass shot.

Guy Pearce was an already in production replacement for actor Ben Miles when the original director Gavin O’Connor left. He basically did it as a favor for Kate.

They should’ve showed Brianna in church with a nun’s habit on her head, like she’d joined a convent. I mean, Dawn got a new wig.

Good thing Ryan isn't from a Black family, they'd try him as an adult and put him in jail with the butt rapists.

These people should have just called the police at the park. John would have to admit the affair, but I am not even sure the kid would be in Juvenile Hall because he could say it was an accident. All of that - including moving and undressing the body - now seems really contrived and unbelievable.

[quote] That Erin's bff acted and was dressed like a 10 year old, not a 16 year old.

I cracked up at how trashy the bff and her mom were dressed in the police station scene.

Lori was kind of right about three police cars coming for the little kid. Was that really necessary? Mare could just went alone to their house, she lives just down the street. Was calling for backup really needed?

Kate’s nude costar from The Reader, David Kross, should have been cast. I don’t think Kate liked him, as his pole got more attention than her tits.

She killed my son.

This is an impressive round up of reactions.

Who was that woman in the scene about halfway through the episode who was being given a house? She asked why and the drug addict's sister (can't remember her name) said that a lot of people loved her.

[quote] I think Lori’s life is worse than jail would ever be for her. She’s left by herself to raise a daughter with Down syndrome and the baby that is the product of her husband raping their niece. Her reputation is tarnished. She’d probably rather be in prison.

I thought that too. Before the whole mess happened, her life wasn't all that bad. Yes, her daughter has Down syndrome and her husband had a history of cheating, but her life seemed drama free in the beginning of the show compared to Mare's life at the beginning of the series.

The only logical sequel is 25 years down the line, there's a serial killer in Easttown and it's DJ, driven insane by growing up in a shithole town where EVERYBODY knows he's an incest baby and his brother killed his mom.

Was it previously confirmed that Erin was shot? In the beginning they mentioned that it was blunt force trauma (gash on head) and she was missing a finger.

I feel like they made up a lot of plot points or didn’t care to resolve. Like, what is the reaction of Erin’s father to finding out the news? Why is no one asking why they undressed Erin, and why is John going to be out on parole in June?

R569, she was one of the rescued kidnapped girls.

R572, taking off your dead cousin-lover’s clothes is considered polite in Pennsylvania.

R572 Billy is getting parole. John's sentence wasn't mentioned

Was the gash on Erin’s head from a bullet or just from John and Billy throwing her lifeless body around the pick up truck and river rocks? These people are a mess.

[quote] Who was that woman in the scene about halfway through the episode who was being given a house? She asked why and the drug addict's sister (can't remember her name) said that a lot of people loved her.

She was one of the kidnapped girls. Her mom, the one who wore the cancer scarf in the previous episodes of the season, was there as well. As was the kidnapped girl's daughter.

I feel like Lori's the ultimate victim in this whole thing... all because she decided to go back to a man (WHO'S NOT EVEN THAT HOT) who cheated on her and give him a second chance.

If women like Lori just PERMANENTLY DUMPED and stayed away from men who had already PROVEN the first time that they're incapable of fidelity in a marriage, then they wouldn't be stuck raising their husband's bastard and a special needs daughter... (oh and also a convicted murderer).

The next 18 years of poor Lori's life are going to be hell... all because she made one silly decision 5 years ago to go back to John (WHO'S NOT EVEN THAT HOT!!!).

R568 That was a nice collection of responses. I find one of the comments profoundly moving: When Lori's body just went limp and fell into Mare, Mare caught, and gently slumped to the floor with her, holding her and eventually kissing her. It resonated with Mare finding her son's body, cutting it down, and "I couldn't even catch him as he fell to the floor."

Redemption and healing are rarely complete, but even so can come unexpectedly.

The one broken hearted person I felt pity for was Dylan's mom. She was made to believe that DJ was her grandson and loved that baby. In the church near the end she looked very distraught.

As we close in on 600, here’s the link to thread 4 to continue the discussion.

Thank you, r577.

Will Kate play another Marianne before she goes off to the great theater in the sky?

I don't understand the uproar over cousins being intimate and having children. I married my first cousin. Several of my own grandchildren married their first cousins who were also my grandchildren. They did so with MY blessings, so if I approve, who are others to object?

Yeah, did Bethy give her addict brother’s house to Katie? Was Katie aware that a junkie died in that bedroom? And if Katie doesn’t pay rent, they can’t just throw her out. Why can’t she live with her cancer-stricken mother and help HER out?

The cancer mom decided probably after having her daughter returned and living with her for 1 week that she actually liked living alone and having her freedom. Cancer mom was therefore all too happy to drop her kidnapped daughter off in a dead junkie's old house and go back to her single-gal life free from having to take care of an infant.

I got the impression that maybe the reward $ or donations paid for the dead junkie brothers house. Or maybe it was paid off and his sis gave it to her best friend’s daughter as a way to heal from her brother’s death.

Still kind of weird in a way - she’s a former addict living in the house of a dead addict who OD in the bedroom.

In a shithole like Easttown, how many houses do you think don't have a junkie history?

Also, can we talk about Lori's WEIRD ASS neck veins during her scene where she was twisting her head to should "MY RYAN??!! MY RYANNUHHH!!!??!!" And how AWFULLY yellow her teeth were??

Jeez Julianne and makeup crew... you didn't have to shade these Pennsylvanian white trash inbred uggos THAT much.

My take on it is that Freddie lived in and had inherited the family home, his sister had married and had a home of her own and it reverted back to her. Community people probably did help spruce it up for her, but just as Mare living with her mom was a strain ( as it was for her daughter as well) Dawn saw it as a good way for her and her daughter to maintain a good relationship by having there own homes.

In hindsight, it’s a script problem that the coroner did not tell Mare that Erin died from a gunshot wound administered from a low level. Or, she is the worst coroner in the country.

[quote] In that gutting final scene with Lori, Mare catches her devastated friend and falls to the ground with her, an apparent callback to her inability to catch Kevin’s body after she cut him down. Mare’s always been capable of carrying the weight of everyone else’s trauma even when she couldn’t carry her own.

From the link at r568 under "best tiny detail in the series".

AND

[quote]The best tiny details surface in the mundane moments between Mare and her mother. Their heart-to-heart in the finale, which knocks down a dam of emotions that hadn’t been breached for decades, is prompted by Mare’s observation about how Helen applied a Band-Aid to Drew. The Mare-Helen love/hate dynamic reminds me of my mother and grandmother. Whether they’re shooting the shit or giving it to each other, Winslet and Jean Smart play their scenes with such warmth, humor, and familial frustration that the relationship feels real.

[quote] How did Dylan's mild-mannered parents produce such a slime-bag son?

Ask Mildred Pierce.

R428 As mentioned by others, my primary issue with the plot twist - why Mr. Carroll would wait so long to re-check and report on the status of the gun. I guess that can be supported by the fact that his character was portrayed as somewhat hairbrained from the start. And a loose end would be what would make Dylan transform from gun wielding dirtbag thug to a generous stand-up guy.

What's the buzz on a season two?

594 he was also reeling from the death of his wife. Remember the end of the show when Mare goes to his house and he asks Mare if it ever gets better after a death of a loved one? So he's been quite effected not just by the death but his wife was a bit of a handful before she died.

[quote] Also, can we talk about Lori's WEIRD ASS neck veins during her scene where she was twisting her head to should "MY RYAN??!! MY RYANNUHHH!!!??!!" And how AWFULLY yellow her teeth were??

Maybe, HBO was too cheap to pay for teeth whitening after paying for period pieces like The Plot Against America.

Hey 596 get this, sometimes they actually have make up GIVE them yellow teeth if it fits either the time period or station of the character. People in a rust belt town in Eastern Pennsylvania don't have Hollywood white teeth moron.

Or maybe Lori chain-smoked with all the recent shit.

[quote] I loved Siobhan singing We Belong. We need to find more ways to get Pat Benatar songs on TV.

Couldn't listen to that, hit mute and turned on captions. Immediately felt too embarrassed for the actors.

They're not in the Rust Belt, or even close. I don't know why so many posters think they are.

I think a great deal that happened in the last ten minutes--including Dylan's apparent transformation--was the direct result of Deacon Mark's sermon. The episode's not called Sacrament for nothing.

Evan Peters did a great Philly accent.