Taylor Swift deeply sucks

And your name is Katie?

OP, get over it hunny. Taylor Swift has "happened".

Pile on those insults and degrading comments OP. You're so edgy.

R3, I actually held back. I could have said Taylor is a soulless vacuous cunt who makes the female gender look bad, but I didn't until now. Oop

I also loathe her, OP. She has always come across as a disingenuous cunt, and her music is uninspired. She appeals to the lowest common denominator.

OP is right. She is just another curve on the slippery slope to the death of music.

I hate this dull plastic thing too.

great gowns, beautiful gowns

OP is Kayne West

Datalounge at its worst.

The OP hasn't realised it yet but he's turned into his father complaining about The Supremes not being real artists because they don't play their own instruments.

Taylor Swift is talented and successful. Lots of women are.

The Supremes could sing and sang better songs.

I don't think she's an "overrated songwriter." I think she's more prolific and can write a catchy song so that brings her a lot of praise. Fortunately for her, that goes pretty far nowadays because pop music's been shit for a while now

I think she's an overrated artist--in general. An overrated songwriter would be like Paul McCartney. Not that he's not a good songwriter, but without John, he's a pretty average songwriter.

I'd like to add that "1989" is a perfect pop record. PERIOD.

You forgot the other o in "poop," R13.

Nah R14. I'm an adult. I don't use words like "Poop"

Only three words, Safe and sound.

Amazing song

I think you could have just said you hated women in general and we would have got your point.

I couldn't name a single song of hers.

Sign of the times that she is lauded so.

Actually, R13, The Minutes by Alison Moyet is a perfect pop record.

Period.

She’s fabulous, op. I’m not sure what your damage is, but by posting such pettiness shows more about you than anything else.

Who are actual fans? Like Nickelback, I've never met a single person who admits to liking her music.

R22 I'm not sure but I think her fanbase is mainly comprised of young adult white girls and white gay twinks.

Once again, I must ask: why do people listen to music they don't like? I actually don't know if I like her since I've only heard one or two of her songs (not kidding). They were all right, I guess. Nothing to inspire fear and loathing. And I try not to pay attention to her private life, other than the inescapable.

Actually, I like "The Minutes," but it's HARDLY the perfect pop record. Shit, it's not even her best record.

PERIOD.

Now what?

I love Pink. Much better performer and songwriter.

You are wrong on both counts R25.

Period

Can we just accept that art is subjective, and declarative statements like the ones in this thread are complete nonsense?

R13 thinks that 1989 is a perfect pop record. I think it's shite.

I think that The Minutes is a perfect pop record. R25 emphatically disagrees.

It is possible that all three of us are right - from our own perspectives, and our own reactions to the works in question.

Like the ones you've just made R27? Sure

PERIOD.

I've never understood the appeal of Taylor Swift. Awful songs and a bad singer.

She's so plain looking, too. Forgettable face with tarted up makeup and cocker spaniel hair in this video; she's like a homely babysitter trying to be sexy.

And before any of the posters upthread start shrieking misogyny again, I think Ed Sheeran is heinous looking and untalented as well and his success is equally unjustifiable.

I can honestly say I've only heard that dumb "shake it off" song and it's horrible. She seems inauthentic and phony and her hook ups with men all seem manufactured. Her and and that British "Loki" guy? Puhleez, gurl. Smelled the same as Cavill and Cuoco.

Haven't heard much from her recently though and that's good.

She’s pretty good with lyrics, OP. For example she’s not so “basic” as to think that “cringe” is an adjective, as you do.

I think 1989 had some decent pop songs. But I was intrigued by Folklore. The songs were really well constructed. My issue is that her voice is so bland. It's not even that it's bad. It's just....there.

I wonder what those songs would sound like if Madonna or Gaga sang them. Or Fiona even? Pop voices that have character in them. Might be interesting.

I only recognize her song about being horny for some guy in a white T-shirt.

That said, her flying “fuck you” to Scooter Braun by re-recording her original albums so as to own them in their entirety is an awesome achievement in its own right.

She also had the Pussycat Dolls open for her a few years back. Which was clever if not hip or transgressive.

Talented songwriter? Her entire discography can be summed up as "Saccharine grrl power" and "Saccharine love stories (now with extra melancholia and historical references to appear intellectual)". It's bland, but her man/womanchild Swifter whores will demand your immediate execution if you point it out. There is a certain aggressive pathology associated with diva worshippers that is so similar to the behavior that see in obsessive sports fans; they take everything like a heinous affront. I almost broke up with an ex-boyfriend over the phone after I told him I found Swift's music boring and repetitive. I wish I were kidding.

R34

R31 will this make you like the song?

I agree with OP. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who liked her music but I don’t hang out with young teen girls.

Why did the Beyonce thread get over 500 replies, but this one didn't even hit 50? Hmm

I love her. Love her music, love her, think she’s brilliant. Have seen her in concert and she was incredible.

And I’m not a teen girl, I’m a 30 something gay man. I have a number of friends (gay men, straight women and lesbians) who also love her. The teenagers don’t care about Taylor Swift - she’s too old for them at this point. I think she’s 31.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but she has a strong and loyal fan base who are growing up with her and continuing to support her. And she’s not going anywhere.

Goofy looking slut. Her songs really do suck.

She's a 'meme' with bland white women.

I really despise the comparisons to Joini Mitchell that empty headed critics entertain. She's NOTHING like Joni.

Most of the women I know adore her. I think her voice is weak, but her songs are catchy. Like Adele's, they sound immediately familiar. They're not particularly challenging in any way. And she's worked hard to build her empire (with a privileged start). I'm not a fan, but I'm an admirer. I enjoy the covers by people with a bit more vocal strength.

Hate Taylor Swift and her shitty music.

R44 they like her for shallow reasons. Musically she is artistically bankrupt. If she was fat or brown she would not be famous.

Agree r10, Datalounge can go for a few days being really great, then suddenly we're overwhelmed with these dumb threads that just drag the whole board down.

If she deeply sucked she’d be better at keeping girlfriends

Ironic that you would say that r46 because OP also starts threads like this about Beyonce, who I do believe is one of those "brown" people you were mentioning.

R49 As much as I despise Beyoncé (Whitney is my queen), she can sing and dance.

Two thoughts. 1. If Taylor Swift catches wind of this post she'll write a mediocre song about the people here being mean to her. It's what she does. She writes mean songs. 2. If it wasn't for auto-tune, she wouldn't have never made it out of the gate. I still can vividly remember her duet with Stevie Nicks years ago and Stevie looking at Taylor with a "what the fuck did you just do to Rhiannon?" death glare.

R49 to be fair (Pre-lemonade) Beyonce was always marketed as a white artist. The main reason why lemonade was such a cultural shock is because she presented her "blackness" front and center.

About Taylor, I don't like her music but she makes catchy fun mindless tracks. And her monetary success is astronomical. But anyone comparing her musical legacy to Joni Mitchell is a moron.

Also It doesn't help that she has the thinnest skin imaginable and claps back at random nobodies on her social media who are being "mean" to her while staying silent about her rabid fanbase who will doxx critics giving her albums a less than favourable review.

UGH...this is why they will always hate us. Taylor supports Gays and Dem? Wah wah wah she is soooo boring. Homophobic fundie Chris Pratt farted? OMG I want his shart underwear!!

R54 and it took what, over 10 years for Taylor to pander to gays? Get it: she is not an ally. She serves herself first and always has.

R55...and it is what? Over 10 years, yet Chris Pratt and Arnold Schwarzenegger are still fundie Repugs, who are actively involved in politics to bash gays off the cliff? Bitch, please, until there are daily Pratt, McConaughey, Schwarzenegger (who all dabbled in gay stuff) bash threads, you can have a Taylor bash once a month.

R56 Taylor being shit doesn't mean I like Chris Pratt. I can't hate both DUMMY.

R48 "If she deeply sucked she’d be better at keeping girlfriends"

Wut?

[quote]Agree [R10], Datalounge can go for a few days being really great, then suddenly we're overwhelmed with these dumb threads that just drag the whole board down.

Honey, both of you are very new or lost. DL has always been a refuge for bitchery and dissing bland celebs. A Taylor Swift bashing thread is NOT going to pull the "whole board down".

That said, she is bland and the only people I know who admit to liking her are the girls at my grocery store who are fat and disabled who have p/t jobs bagging.

Her bearding is cringe-worthy too.

I love you, OP.

I admit, I’m a pop culture whore but I would be hard pressed to name a TS song.

The only thing I know about her is that she beards for gay celebrities. And buys expensive homes.

Has Seacrest dated her yet?

Do you have any other hot takes for us, OP? What are your thoughts on "Forrest Gump"? Reality TV? Avocado toast?

I'm on the edge of my seat in anticipation.

Not OP but Tom Hanks is close to being ridiculous R63. Sully, the ship captain, Mr. Rogers.

It's amazing how stans get so offended by criticism.

R59. This is true. Not many people admit to being TS fans.

We love her.

She's boring and basic, like most female singers these days. There are no modern female singers with the talent, power and just plain electricity of female singers from decades past. Stevie Nicks, Chaka Khan, Tina Turner, Donna Summer, Annie Lennox and even Madonna, just to name a few. Everybody is so fucking boring now.

R67, it's for this reason I haven't listened to the radio in years now. They all sound the same and they are autotuned to hell and back and they lip synch. They don't play instruments and holding a guitar and plucking away for show is not playing (Madonna is guilty of this). Wearing earpieces so you can lip synch and gyrate and fuck the floor is not my idea of music. Give me the Wilson sisters any day.

R67 Yeah, cause male mainstream singers these days are so amazing

No they are not R69 but since I was directly commenting about the female singers I didn't mention boy bands and those K-pop gaybois.

She comes off very well in that Netflix documentary on her. Very savvy. She also took a stand against that bitch running for senate in Tennessee even though her management went apeshit and told her not to say a word. They show her standing up to them.

She’s a strong songwriter and talented musician and those of you criticizing her probably haven’t actually listened to the majority of her music. Which - fair enough - if you hate her you hate her - but there is a reason she’s stuck around and stayed successful. Her music is great. Catchy as fuck and the lyrics are beautiful in a lot of the songwriting.

Gay men make up a significant part of her audience at this point so don’t put this all on the fraus - it’s us too. And I’m fine with that.

Closeted lez right?

R71 well of course they aren't going to show Taylor in a negative way when it's her documentary.

R71, Taylor strikes me as someone who has no backbone. She is highly controlled by her mother and the team around her. Everything she does is extremely calculated, nothing is spontaneous, not even that album she lied about writing in two weeks during the pandemic. Completely FAKE

I liked old Taylor but the latest Taylor has been affected by fame and it shows. That being said, she is enormously talented as a songwriter and is probably a zillionaire because the songwriter makes all the big money in the music business and she writes all her own material. The fact that she has had dozens of massive hits speaks for itself.

I always find it funny when Swift and Beyonce fans go at it. They both make lame, pop music. It's all cheesy pop music, but if people enjoy it, so be it.

I guess your opinion isn’t that widely held or very influential, op….

[quote]That being said, she is enormously talented as a songwriter

Oh bullshit. Her songs are vapid commercial pop. She's not Joni Mitchell.

I heard she wanted to play Joni in some production, but Joni put the kibosh on that post haste…

I'm sure Joni would prefer someone like Lorde before this bubblegum queen.

That's why they call it "Pop"

One of my favorite Taylor Swift written songs was on the soundtrack for "Fifty Shades Darker"

Not as deeply as Austin Nichols.

I find most mainstream pop to be awful. I'm not even trying to be a contrarian hipster either. It just sounds lazy and uninspired. Taylor is a representation of that. She can write her own songs and play an instrument but she makes the same vapid music and writes about the same immature and shallow topics.

She never stops complaining. Ever.

I tried listening Folklore which was getting all this praise from the music press like Rolling Stone and Pitchfork for being "brave and authentic". I couldn't make it though the halfway point. It didn't sound like folk rock at all and the lyrics were the same shit that she always sings about and she still can't sing. It just goes to show how much the press is getting paid by corporations to promote their stars.

John Fahey and Joni Mitchell made folk music. Taylor Swift sings the same lyrics over a few strummed chords. There's nothing interesting about her writing, guitar playing, or lyricism. The poptimism of contemporary music journalism is laughable.

[quote]I tried listening Folklore which was getting all this praise from the music press like Rolling Stone and Pitchfork for being "brave and authentic". I couldn't make it though the halfway point. [/quote]

I agree...It was not good

This Reddit post in response to Phoebe Bridgers saying hating The 1975 is "sexist" also can apply to the aggressive defense of Taylor Swift's music.

[quote] It seems to me that society is trending towards treating things designed to appeal to children and young adults as Serious Art, with the belief that anyone who disagrees with this position is A Very Problematic Person. Look at the backlash Scorsese got for saying what he did about Marvel movies.

[quote] If something is created primarily to cater to a particular demographic, whatever that demographic is, there's a high likelihood that I won't have a meaningful, positive response to it. I am most frequently moved by art that feels like honest human expression. There are artists of all races, genders, nationalities, religions and perspectives that have moved me with their art. I often respond negatively to art that scans to me as a calculated attempt to appeal to a group of people based on that group's pre-existing beliefs or prejudices. Deciding what fits into this category is obviously an imprecise and completely subjective activity, but I have learned to trust my judgement and gut feel over the years. The 1975 fit into this category for me. They strike me as a band who constantly have their feelers out, scanning the culture and responding to the current correct opinions and aesthetics by mirroring them and putting them into a melodramatic, completely unconvincing package of personality and music. As someone below perfectly said, "I don't buy a single word that comes out of Matt Healy's mouth". It's nothing to do with teenage girls. Actual teenage girls like Benee and Billie Eilish feel more honest and real than The 1975.

[quote] I know that Phoebe's comment here probably comes more from her tendency towards Twitter snark than any of her deeply held beliefs, but "hating [band] is sexist" is an extremely common line of argument both here and across the internet, and is often presented with sincerity. I hate it because it's a completely lazy way of responding to music that stops all potential discussion from happening immediately. By posting it you feel as though you have already won because you can simply reply "lol, look at this triggered sexist" to anything that anyone comes back with. Is it too much to ask that people talk about the art they like in a more thoughtful way that doesn't seek to belittle people who disagree with them? I want to hear about what this piece of art made you feel and why, I want to know what truth or beauty you found in it, I want to know why this particular piece of art, in the sea of the billion other pieces of art that are vying for my attention in the internet era, is worth paying attention to.

R88 Follow the $$$. These moral crusades are all astroturfed. Media companies want you to keep consuming baby media because it's easy to make and has the best ROI. Don't like [Film/band X]? RACIST! SEXIST! AGEIST! Companies have stopped trying to make art that is aesthetically pleasing , rather they try to shame you into accepting a lesser babyish product. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

Artists who are creative, challenging and forward-thinking are far less easy to control than ones who are purely commercial, formulaic and willing to be dumbed down for a profit. The music industry has gotten more conservative with who they invest money into and they are choosing to manufacture stars off of image alone rather than seeking out and developing natural talent. There's room for both types of artists and the 1960s to 1990s showed a mix of organic talent (which lived on) and manufactured pop (that was mostly forgotten). But once the 1996 Deregulation Act happened which allowed for consolidation of the mass media under the ownership of a few major corporations with the final blow of illegal downloading which disrupted singles and CD sales. The music industry became much more stingy and calculated. Music journalism has been struggling to make money too, so it's easier for them to get paid to just promote whatever pop artist is out there.

Yet again, I must ask: Why are you listening to music you don't like? Don't say it's unavoidable: I've heard maybe two Taylor Swift songs so far, no Phoebe Bridgers and I don't know what the1975 refers to (I don't even care enough to Google it). I heard Empire by Shakira done by a YouTube cover artist before I heard the original and I vastly prefer it. There is good music out there, both new and old, but you must search for it.

R91 Yes there's great and creative music out there but it's not being promoted by the press and will probably never gain a widespread recognition. I try to be open-minded though and give mainstream pop a listen. Some I really can enjoy and get behind but a lot of it I find too lazy and uninspired. I know it's subjective. Taylor Swift gives her fans what they want and makes money. So I can't fault her for doing what works for her. It's easy to ignore her but it still really does show that fame isn't a meritocracy. Since she is far from the best songwriter, guitarist and singer.

That’s a great comment at R88. And Phoebe Bridgers is another one who’s way too thin-skinned, AND overrated. She sucks, sucks, sucks. There isn’t anything sexist about me saying that, either. I cannot believe she’s getting as much hype as she’s gotten. She’s an embarrassment as a songwriter, a child. Who the fuck names their first album after a line from the edited-for-TV version of The Big Lebowski? That was my first clue that she isn’t someone to take seriously. The music confirmed my suspicion.

Taylor Swift contacted Aaron Dessner of The National and asked him to send a bunch of instrumentals. She picked what she liked, and wrote music to that. She didn’t write that album in two weeks. He had been working on that music for a long time. I’m not the biggest fan of The National, but I was expecting something genuinely mature and folky from that album. A friend played me a few tracks. It was god-awful. She sings like she’s mimicking contemporary female hip-hop vocalists. Her vocal melodies were juvenile. That’s the biggest problem with current mainstream pop songwriting: the lead melodies literally sound like a fucking 5-year-old made them up. They really do.

R93 that’s interesting; I didn’t know about the connection with The National. Unusually for someone my age (Millennial, 28) I’m not usually interested in anodyne indie-folk, but The National have released a handful of very lovely mournful songs. ‘About Today’ is one of my favourites of that genre and sound.

Swift really didn’t do anything interesting with or to those instrumentals she got.

R81 ugh. Imagine if Swift & Zayn copped off. It would be like rattling dry bones in a bag.

I don't care for the "Pop" Taylor but her earlier country/soft-rock works were good. Fifteen, Should've said no, Enchanted, Fearless, Back to December, Teardrops on my Guitar, Last Kiss, and a few more are some good songs of her.