Did you ever have an epiphany about a person that redefined your friendship or relationship?

In most deep friendships and relationships, you know them at their core. So even if you find out something horrible they did, you have context in which to frame it. I don't think I've ever learned about an action committed by someone I cared about that made me change my opinion of them.

No.

every year.

Not one action, but sadly sometimes we can outgrow our favorite friends.

Yes. I watched a group 6 of my husbands friends { from a church group } which became my "friends" kind of forget about him when his Dad died. Not one of them came to the funeral or memorial. Not one. Of course we went to their family members funeral out of respect but I told him no more from me. That was the turning point for me. I'm the planner of the group always trying to get people together. After that bullshit I slowly stopped planning things to see if anyone would pick up the ball and no one did. Now we don't really hear from them of see them for the last few years. Mostly FB posts. One of them asked me what happened on and I told her that I was sadden and surprise about the friends behavior. She the diva of the group. Very ego driven almost like a dude. She expects a lot out of her friends but gives very little. It shouldn't have been a surprise looking back.

yes, when i had a best friend, who i thought was like a brother to me and would be a lifelong friendship (he was straight), who got his girlfriend pregnant and then dumped me like i never existed. when we got into it me and his girlfriend (she was totally at fault i might add!). with her LITERALLY screaming at the top of her lungs at me and freaking out, cussing me out as i just say there silent, i asked him the next day since he was in the other room and of course HAD to hear her going on and on like this, if he agreed with her and he said nothing! so either he did agree with her or he is a big ass coward too afraid to stand up to his girlfriend and at the very least say to her that he (meaning me) didn't deserve to be talked to this way....

a few days later i moved to a different area and never saw him again! you can't be friends with someone you don't respect!...

Yes, my ex fell out of love with me and I went into a tailspin. Up until then I thought I wanted someone to “complete” me, and was liking all his accomplishments, family, finances, education, and that he had a life plan- because I had come from a broken home and was always scrambling. It was attractive and so was he.

He taught me no matter how hard you love someone, they aren’t required to love you back, and blaming circumstances or trying to “change” them is worthless. So is wallowing in depression- because you aren’t living the life you expected.

I also stayed friends long enough to see him change, that it would’ve never worked, and that momentarily falling in love with appearances or trappings is dangerous. True love is the man that sits by your side when you’re sick, loves you through the arguments and has your back.

[quote]He taught me no matter how hard you love someone, they aren’t required to love you back, and blaming circumstances or trying to “change” them is worthless. So is wallowing in depression- because you aren’t living the life you expected.

R7 Thank you. Your words hit me hard and I'm glad you wrote them.

Yes, when someone makes a racist remark that I would not have expected from them.

My BFF from the first day of middle school. When she received the invitation to my son's bar mitzvah, she declined because she was meeting a friend for lunch that day. Never made contact with her again. Several years later she called me (later found out she was in AA and it was an apology call) and I blew her off.

A friend of 30+ years. I realized I was always the one moving our friendship forward, making calls, "trying." So I quit trying. It's for the best.

I’ve cut out a longtime hag because she went and got herself a boyfriend and quit talking to me. Now some time later and beyond whatever feelings, I just think it’s weird. Who drops their friends because they take a lover? Makes me uncomfortable. I don’t even want to know why. I’m just done. It also took 2 years of protracted pain to finally cut her off. Never again. No hags for me.

I was friends with someone for twenty years before I had an epiphany and wrote him off. Let’s call him Ross for the sake of this story.

Ross was always moving cities, and then countries, looking for a better life as a lot of young queens are known to do. He constantly fell in love with guys who were unavailable for some reason or another (just broken up and not ready to date again, in rehab, too busy with work/study etc) and would insist that if he just waited long enough, then this person would realise just how much of a good catch Ross was and would sweep him off his feet and into the sunset.

At best, these people just wanted to keep Ross around as it boosted their ego to have someone ‘waiting in the wings’. At worst, these people were pretty much being stalked by Ross and were trying to get him to take a hint and fuck off. We (all his platonic friends) would often joke to Ross that to date someone, they had to acknowledge your existence. He just never took the hint and became obsessed with guys who were clearly not interested.

My epiphany came when one of these love interests stole from me and I could see the stolen item in social media posts at this persons house. I asked Ross to speak to this person about the stolen goods and get them back, but he refused. He told me I was being mean and trying to ruin his relationship with this guy. (Let me be clear, there was no relationship with this guy except in Ross’ head. They had never even hooked up.)

It was at this stage I realised that Ross was just a user and will never grow out of this phase of falling in love with unavailable men, putting them before his friends. I cut him from my life as it just felt like Groundhog Day with him. Unrequited love happens, but after twenty years of dealing with it and being shown where I stood, enough was enough.

It's happened several times to me over the years. You can think you know someone, but I think we only rarely *really* get to know anyone. That said, they gradually reveal more and more of themselves in their words and actions and one day you realize "I don't really like this person anymore and if I'd had this impression of them when we met, I wouldn't have pursued a friendship."

The way I handle it is that I just back off of the friendship. I'm busy if they want to do something, etc. They get the message.

It is true that you often grow apart, or it now seems to me as you get older you tend to become “more” of whatever you already were. I noticed that with my dad as he turned sixty, and now amongst me and my friends in our 60s. had a very close friend of 25 years who was always very different than myself, especially politically, but he was interesting, fun and kind in many other ways; so the political sparring didn’t really matter.

Then Trump happened. He went all in; which frankly surprised me somewhat, because he’s extremely intelligent. My one other republican friend left the party as soon as Trump was nominated; but this guy just became gleefully viscous. I didn’t ever confront him or even say anything - you’re not going to change anybody’s mind - I just stopped all communication. I doubt we miss each other, but I do miss the guy I was friends with in the 90s.

Yes, I moved back to the Midwest (Rust Belt) from California, where I'd lived for 25 years, almost 10 years ago. In the Fall of 2012 I was speaking with someone on the phone with whom I'd been friends with for almost 30 years (with about a 4 year period of no contact from 1997-2001). He had to move from our Rust Belt city to Rochester, NY for his job in the prior year or two. In the course of the conversation he said "now that you don't live in that uppity city anymore (San Francisco)", with a sort of disdain in his sort of Appalachian or whatever accent. It really hit, one, because I wasn't thrilled about leaving San Francisco, but mostly, I guess, because it made me realize what a fucking low-life provincial rube he really was.

I saw him over Thanksgiving when he came to said Rust Belt city to visit (he still had a condo here). We saw "Lincoln" and had dinner. It wasn't a great experience because he was bitter about having to leave this shithole to move to Rochester, and it affected his general attitude. He was coming back to visit over Christmas and left me a voicemail on December 21. I never returned or acknowledged the call. After New Year's I get an email asking "are you all right?". I made up an excuse as to why I hadn't gotten back to him. He said in the course of the email exchange that he could get a $300 fare to go to Palm Springs over President's Day weekend but couldn't afford it (he was keeping two households), and I responded that he should grab it, and, insensitively, that I was going to Vancouver to visit a friend during spring break. He hasn't contacted me since, nor have I contacted him.

I had begun to think of some of the things he had said to me over the years, that were a reflection of his attitude toward me, and thought that this was the first time in almost 30 years that I was seeing him as he really was. I deleted all of his past emails, which I had kept. I have no regrets.

^^^Please excuse the length.

le snore on that one.

"this guy just became gleefully viscous"

Indeed, R15, remaining friends with someone whose viscosity increased, and gleefully so no less, would be difficult.

I draw the line when they get runny.

[R16] & [R17], your post was *not* TLDR; it was succinct. And good for you for calling this asswipe out the way you did. Reading this thread, I'm having thoughts pop up about people in or on the fringes of my life. They've occurred before, always about the same things. And I'm pensive ATM, to phrase a coin (sic).

It took me 20 years, but I realized the one true love of my life/high school sweetheart/person I put on a pedestal never really loved me or cared about me at all. Sucks.

Stop fighting with your hags, boys.

I have a colleague and friend who can drive me to madness. He is rather spectum-y, which, in our profession (academia) is par for the course, but he care take it to infuriating new heights.

One day, I was in his office chatting and I noticed his gradebook. It was open to the first page and I noticed he had first purchased it in grad school, carried it with him to a postdoc, an assistant professorship at another university, and finally, our university. He'd crossed out each school when he moved. He's used this same weathered gradebook for over fifteen years.

Spectrum-y, maybe. But it also made me realize that, for all his faults, he is incredibly loyal. Once a person -- or a gradebook -- is in his corner, he will stand by them no matter what. Friends, colleagues, students. Just a funny little thing, a shabby record book, but it made me value my friendship with him a lot more, even when he's a petty bitch.

Yes. I've recently had a few major changes in life i.e. town, career, age etc. (And medication)

I have really 'grown into' myself. It is astounding how much I have been my own enemy.

The quality of my life and my relationships have improved.

R5 - that's sad.

I went through five years of hell peppered with a few highs, all the while convincing myself that this was a friend. I saw what I wanted to.

Met a trainer guy who had the ability to help me block out all the assholes in the gym. Even as adults, guys can be pricks and what can I say? high school bullying left some deep scars. He made working out fun and got me out of my head.

I thought we were buddies and again, I saw what I wanted to see. He charged me a third of the going rate and made working out fun. He snapped at me one day and apologized and then he did it again a week later...only this time... no apology. It's not me. He was having a bad day.

You have to go down a really deep dark hole to convince yourself someone who's being a prick to you is your buddy. I mean, he [italic] called [/italic] me buddy...that meant we were, right? Right?

It wasn't his job to be my buddy and it wasn't his job to train me. Oh. wait, that actually was his job.

One day he's like I don't want to see you anymore. I left, found another gym but gained about 20 lbs. over feeling betrayed.

I'll never know what happened. I know he did stuff like this to other people and he probably will for the rest of his life; he gets off on it. I blocked it out. "I"ll be different. He LIKES me."

It'd be easy to write it off as 'he's closeted' but honestly, I think that's just what it is.

i have to say that, over the years ON PURPOSE i stop hanging out with, stop calling "friends" cutting them off cold turkey as a experiment to see if THEY will reach out to ME... if they care enough, worry enough, concerned enough to reach out to me. Granted, i know this is manipulative, but it's my way of testing TRUE friendship....

As it turns out? Not a single time has any of these friends in these experiments reached out to me. so thus we are no longer friends. I'm sure in their minds they thought "well, why doesn't he reach out to me!" Perhaps it is a 2 way street. However, i always thought since i was the one who was always struggling (money, finding a job, family issues, etc) that rightfully so they should be concerned about me the friend who is struggling when they are not! Guess they didn't care enough or see it my way?

My bff (straight woman) of 25 years fell in love with a QAnon asshole and the last time she spoke to me, not only was she disparaging of me, but she called something that happened to her "Communist bullshit."

She's bright, even brilliant. But the fact that her desperation to be in a relationship at this late date (she's 54) has led her to pick up his belief system even somewhat has lessened her intelligence and value in my mind so much that I doubt if I will ever speak to her again.

It's a shame. Now I really only have one close friend left. But I certainly don't need someone silly enough to fall for a GQPer looking down on me like I'm the ignoramus.

I'll never figure out what makes straight women so stupid about men.

R27, here; it was five years on and off; in fact, we'd go a while without seeing each other; it was just five years from the first day we met till the last.

[quote]I'll never figure out what makes straight women so stupid about men.

R29 It really is scary, isn’t it? So many of these straight women are so desperate for “a man” that they will just throw all common sense out the window and become his slave just to keep him.

[quote]Did you ever have an epiphany about a person that redefined your friendship or relationship?

Yes. A former friend of mine had always been questionable, yet I stayed friends with him for longer than I should have because I kept ignoring the questionable things. The final straw for me was when he casually said that he had been sleeping with someone who was married - as if it was no big deal. I’m not one to be on my high horse about morals, but I’m sorry, something about that just made my stomach turn. He was already a slut, but to be so low vibrational that you sleep with someone who is married is just wrong. And the worst part of it was he didn’t even seem to feel even slightly bad about it. It confirmed what I had already knew long ago - that he was soulless and had no conscience. And I realized if he could say that with no remorse, what might he do to me in the future?

I cut him off not long after that. From what I’ve heard, he still doesn’t have a job and is living off whoever he’s currently with. Wonder when they’ll get sick of being the breadwinner and dump his ass. I’m sure it will happen eventually.

In 7th grade I befriended a girl named Teri who had just transfered from a Catholic school because they didn't have anything past 6th grade. She was very skinny and liked to laugh. She actually had quite an ego and probably wondered why the cutest guy in the school wasn't going steady with her. But because of her acne the boys stayed away.

Except for gay boi me. We had many laughs and ate lunch together, walked the halls (I never could resist an audience).

One day she was trying to impress some girl and started carping at me. At one point she went too far and called me a femmo and threw her head back and laughed. Others laughed. I was stunned.

I really don't remember talking to her after that. It was ghost 'n fade. She found other friends. I did not.

Her face cleared up, she got boobs and boyfriends. I saw her from time to time in high school but we never spoke, ever again.

I had a friend / former coworker who suddenly got fired from our workplace. His office was full of personal stuff and I helped him haul all of his stuff home the day he got fired. I did other things for him as well, spent his birthday together, etc. Being fired rocked his world b/c it was his dream job, he ended up suing the company, etc. He was also terrible with money.

At some point, I was having problems, myself, and I told him so. I was single at the time and I told this friend that my birthday was coming up. No, I'm not one of those "It's MY BIRTHDAY" people, but for some reason, it was important to me that year. Anyway, crickets from friend.

I realized that the friendship was one-sided and I just backed away. I did run into this friend a few times and all he could do was talk about everything that was going on in his life.

[quote]I realized that the friendship was one-sided and I just backed away. I did run into this friend a few times and all he could do was talk about everything that was going on in his life.

You shouldn’t have even said a word to him. He wasted enough of your time. He would have been lucky to get a head nod.

Not about others but about myself in my relationships with them. Many not good I'm ashamed to say and nothing I could make up for.

The person who I thought was my closest friend for 15 years broke my trust on a number of occasions in different ways; I should have cut this friend off years ago. Then in 2019 during a stay at my house, he was incredibly snippy to me and yelled at me in front of my family and that was it. I was done

ignore typos at r24 ...

Reactions to COVID ( masks, lockdown, vaccines, generally caring about the safety about others) has opened my eyes as to what utter selfish shitbags some people around me are. People I previously respected and felt (platonic) love and loyalty for. I now know they aren't good, kind or trustworthy.

*have opened

So....this person and I had been friends for about 10 years. We met at a retreat in a city where neither one of us lived. Similar interests, very similar senses of humor. Luckily, no sexual attraction on either of our parts. We stayed in touch and the friendship grew to the point that he flew to NY to visit me while I was there on assignment. Good time had by all, yada yada yada. So, our routine was that we rotated visits to each other. One year he'd come to see me in Florida where I was teaching, the next year I'd go to the Twin Cities where he lived, and then we'd meet up in a place neither of us lived but wanted to explore. A supportive, loving friendship. Or so I thought. Anyway, it's my turn to visit him in the TC and in passing he mentions that he needs to have a new roof put on his free-standing garage. I had just done my own garage (with the help of several friends) so I told him we could do that while I was there. Get a couple of friends to help us, or hire a couple of day laborers, and we could knock it out in a day. He was over the moon with the money he was going to save. So, we do all the preliminary stuff...buy the roofings shingles, rent the nail gun, so on and so forth. The day of the actual roofing arrives, he's only got one friend to help, and announces at the beginning of the project that he had a massage scheduled for that afternoon at 2:00, standing appt, would have to pay if he cancelled, so forth. "But it will only be an hour.." Of course, that was bullshit. He was "so relaxed he just had to lie there and revel in it. " So, he's out of commission for two hours while me and the one friend who showed up keep working away. The next morning, I was scheduled to fly back to Florida. While I'm in the shower, he makes breakfast for himself, no offer to make anything for me. It was at that moment that I realized that this man's self-interest was pernicious, and that his narcissistic personality disorder was really off-putting. I blocked his calls from that morning on, and we never spoke again. He sent me a half-hearted note of apology, to which I did not respond.

This one particular Christmas.

I’ve erased paragraphs, OP. You’re welcome

I've posted this before, but: dumped by my guy at Christmas, and he cleaned out the joint bank account (I was young and dumb). I took a second job bartending in a gay bar to help me get back on financial footing, and so I didn't sit around the house moping.

One of my exes came to town and wanted to get together. So I told him to meet me at the bar when I was finishing work and we could go someplace else.

When we got to the next place, he said he was "embarrassed" for me working as a bartender and couldn't believe I'd lower myself to that.

I walked out at that moment and ignored his calls from then on.

Later I realized that I'd learned from my ex walking out on Christmas, and I wasn't going to be a doormat again. And that I had a real problem getting into doormat relationships.

R44 - some people just aren't good with words. You should give him a chance to apologize. Gay men can say some cutting things without thinking about it.

Now I wonder why everyone is talking about their friends and no one has mentioned family members.

I want to hug and kiss you all.

Went to art school and was friends with this girl there, in the mid 90s.

In 2002 I was in an abusive relationship, career hadn’t bounced back from 9/11 and other crappy life stress. I was depressed.

Friend and I had been out of touch for a few years but she tracked me down and wanted to reconnect.

We met for lunch, it was fine and I put on a happy face.

A few days later to call and tells me with a big sigh that I needed to get my shit together, go back to school like she did, and get a real job. I was too smart to be working in retail.

I crumbled and started sobbing (ugh). Told her I was really depressed and couldn’t even imagine filling out a school app or functioning in school. I was barely hanging onto my pitiful retail job.

She was quite snippy and repeated that I needed to pull myself together etc.

I never spoke to her again.

She still sometimes calls my sister to get my number and will leave chipper voicemails or texts. It’s weird.

I posted my sob story again vowed to never let it happen again.

I think I did, though.

I developed a group of friends in a coffee shop; overtime, I realized I didn't have much in common except with one. Whenever he and I get together alone there, it's fine, great even.

But a few of HIS friends often come over, join us and are openly hostile towards me. It would be where he and I would be having a great talk and this one of his friends comes along, freezes me out and he just lets it happen.

It's at the point where I can't be around them and so I can't be around him. I realized I was over it recently when something happened and I didn't want to tell him about it.

I'll miss him, but I realize it's better to get used to his absence than deal with the presence of his asshole friends.

When one of my best friends at the time tried to coerce me into coming out to her. I can no longer trust the asshole.

R48, that's fascinating, because I've had a few experiences in my life like that too. I just don't GET people like that. It's actually embarrassing for them to decide to be rude to someone just harmlessly hanging out with their friend. Were they gay men? It's always been gay men with me, except once with some straight men, but I know that's because the guy I was dating, their friend, had only just come out to them and they were uncomfortable with it. They didn't want to lose him, so they took their discomfort out on me. The couple of times its been gay men, I've never known why.

It's taken me a long time (turning 40 this year), but the place you are at, not putting up with this:

[quote]one of his friends comes along, freezes me out and he just lets it happen

is where I'm at now, and it actually feels pretty good. We don't have enough time to be putting effort into 'friendships' that are one-sided or where we're not all caring for each other, there are enough others we could be expending that energy on. I used to wonder all the time what was wrong with me that people would do that, but there are just bitter, unpleasant people in the world that we sometimes have to deal with. If you know you do the right thing, are pleasant and kind, then there's nothing to worry about. Their loss. You won't miss out not spending time with this person.

The one thing I never did before that I WOULD do now, is if asked later on why I went quiet through some chance catch up, just say exactly why. Not whining or complaining, just simply say: "your friends were incredibly rude to me when I was around and it wasn't enjoyable to be a part of that".

Yup.

I was going thru a small rough patch and my then “best friend” decided to mock me almost daily, and I was so taken aback I told him to never contact me again. I was then reassured that this person came from UTTER TRASH, had ZERO upbringing, (father a raging drunk, mother, shrill and a dim bulb) so I shouldn’t take it too seriously. I guess he was lashing out, because his husband dumped him ....oh well

I think one problem for me was since I was bullied a lot and didn’t have a lot of real friends as a kid, I always valued friendship and am very loyal, but almost to a fault. There have been many times when I tolerated BS when I shouldn’t have, thinking the friendship mattered more. But I think like many of you, I’ve become more pragmatic and at peace with the fact that few people stay in your life forever. I’m also much less invested in pursuing friendships and being the one who makes the effort and are treated like they are doing you a favor. No one’s friendship is worth sacrificing your pride and self esteem over.

[R53], your post is the diary entry I've been putting off for the past week...

R50, R48, here.

It's actually a group of mixed straight people who are his other friends.

They're fucking crazy. My friend is a great listener. He is so easy to talk to. People are selfish and they want him all to themselves.

I can be with him and people just descended upon us and freeze me out; he's actually tried to get us ALL to talk, which I appreciate, but that just pissed the interluders off.

I just went off on how rude I think the whole thing is when I saw him alone a week ago; he said he was sorry I was in so much pain; to his credit, I think he meant it but he's not going to do anything about it in terms of telling these other people they're being rude.

I've been avoiding him since then; I am going to say at one point, as much as it sucks getting used to not being around you, I feel more at peace because those assholes aren't rude to my face.

Sure, it feels like they 'won' on some level, but if he wasn't discouraging them from being assholes what am I really losing?

I'm almost afraid of what I'd do if it happened again; I should not be around them.

[quote]I think one problem for me was since I was bullied a lot and didn’t have a lot of real friends as a kid, I always valued friendship and am very loyal, but almost to a fault.

I resonate with this so much, mate. It's what I've come to realise about myself too. Great post all up. I'm glad you're growing and developing here too (as am I, yay!) x.

[quote] I was then reassured that this person came from UTTER TRASH, had ZERO upbringing, (father a raging drunk, mother, shrill and a dim bulb) so I shouldn’t take it too seriously.

One regular thing in my life is people being rude to me and me being told by others I have to understand them and not take it personally and be sympathetic. The thing is, I AM sorry for people who behave like this, I DO understand they may have really rotten things going on in their lives, I DO hope they get happiness.

But after all these years I've also realised: I am NOT required to let people shit all over me because of what is going on in their own lives. And when times have been rough for me, I've never treated others like that. The last time a friend started at me after someone we knew was needlessly awful to me (homophobic, actually): "What you have to understand..." I was shocked at the steeliness in my voice as I shut her straight down: "I don't 'have to understand' anything." Her mouth dropped open and she went bright red, but she has never dared say that to me again.

R55, those are gatekeepers and they don’t want you. You will have to forge a different path and drop the friend unless he can interact without his crew. Is this a college situation? Drop those fucks.

R49 - I think every gay person has had that experience. Straight people detect a sense of hiding something or mystery and they want to know all about it.

Then, when you tell them you're gay, suddenly EVERYONE knows. They don't think it's a big deal - but they have no idea how it exposes you and you can get some real blowback from it.

One lesson to learn though - freezing people out is a reactionary thing to do to protect yourself. 99% of the time, it is better to speak with the people to let them know your side or how you've been hurt. People aren't mind readers.

It takes time to have the maturity to do this - and even more maturity to do it in a way where they won't be defensive and you don't come across as a shrieking lunatic.

Most people do not want to hurt people - and other times, they're not aware that they are doing it. Communication is key - and if you fail on your side to communicate your feelings and hurt, then some of the blame is on you.

R55, I'm proud of you for actually saying something. I've struggled with that in the past, so I know it took bravery and it was the right thing to do, not just shut him out but let him know exactly why. You've done all you can do. And as you say, I'm not sure you're missing out on much if he's going to let that happen to a friend of his.

I think one day he will wake up and realise these people are using him for his listening and attention and he'll suddenly see they're not that interested in him for him. But that is his journey.

^Oh and this is R50, sorry, forgot to sign it.

A friend of 30 years and I were at a pub drinking a pitcher of beer. She received a phone call from a guy who is a friend/crush of hers going on 15 years. He calls her everyday twice a day. He happened to call while we were drinking and she took the call and spoke to him outside for 45 mins and left me just sitting there. I’ve never looked at her the same after that.

[quote]Most people do not want to hurt people - and other times, they're not aware that they are doing it. Communication is key - and if you fail on your side to communicate your feelings and hurt, then some of the blame is on you.

This is a good point, too, and something I am learning as I grow up. I communicate so much better with people now because it's true, if you don't say something, either others won't realise, or maybe they'll think it's not that bad, or they don't have to say something if you don't bring it up. As a friend said to me once: "advocate for yourself!" I used to hate myself so much I never would, and thought I deserved everything that happened. Growing out of that gives you the biggest feeling of relief and happiness.

Advocate for yourself.

Just recently I had a friend of over 20 years complain that I was not “feeding” our friendship. It was devastating. I couldn’t help remembering how the Christmas before last I was almost pleading with him to come over to my house and get his present under the tree, see our decorations etc. There was always an excuse. The tree was finally packed up with the present still there, until I delivered it personally to his house.

During the last year I was so lonely and this friend was busy zooming with their kids and had a friend who lived downstairs who they hung out with. He also has many nieces and nephews and siblings and is always going back and forth being social with them. I don’t have any family around me, just my husband. And my friend was peeved because I keep my weekends free so my husband and I can spend time together. But my friend thinks that is unacceptable. At all other times I jump at the chance to spend time with my friend and always accomodate him in every other way. Doesn’t that count for anything? Apparently not.

Now, I’m in my 60s and like others have said about themselves, I am somewhat shy and do not push myself on anyone, but am steadfastly loyal.

I lost one of my dogs just before New Year’s Eve and found I just wanted to grieve, so I turned off my phone for a couple of days. I was disappointed to receive no messages from any of my friends wishing me happy new year. So it goes.

People are not perfect and I can’t afford to chew anyone out for not occasionally meeting my expectations. But having this one friend take me to task for some grievance in their own minds, well I found myself thinking: I need new friends, And also when you have a lot of friends you can forgive the odd misbehaviour because again, people can be going through difficult cycles. My younger friends expect a lot though. If I spent 2-3 hours on social media feeding people attention then maybe I would have more friends. That’s not going to happen at this stage. It may be a modern conundrum or maybe I will become more friendless due to my own stubbornness.

After my friend made their complaint to me I told him I would take it on board but inside I was thinking “oh get lost.”

R57. no, but it FEELS like college

R47 Rule number one: When someone wants to “reconnect” after having been out of your life for a “few years,” it is NEVER the same the second time around. I learned the best thing to do is leave the past in the past and just enjoy the happy memories. Because chances are after you reconnect, they will do something to taint those good memories.

[quote]She received a phone call from a guy who is a friend/crush of hers going on 15 years. He calls her everyday twice a day.

R61 You should have cut her off a long time ago. Anyone who allows themself to have a crush and/or be strung along for 15 years is not all there in the head. The fact that she left you alone in a pub for 45 minutes to talk to her “crush” on the phone shows where you land on her list of priorities. Block her and let this dummy waste another 15 years of her life crushing on a guy who obviously doesn’t want her.

I've been dumped by friends a few times. I guess there must be something wanting in me as a friend.

This is insane but true. I had a lesbian friend who owed me $100. I think she had only owed me the money a couple of months and I didn't really think much of it. She met some younger woman online who lived on the other side of the world, and flew her over. As in paid for her ticket. (My friend was mid-30s and this girl was around 20). She also bought her fancy headphones and some other gifts. She wanted to treat her new friend to a nice hotel and asked if I would have time to call up some of the nicer 5 star hotels in our city and check out their rooms. As in ask to have physical tours of their rooms. My friend was going to lend that girl her phone when she was in town, and asked me if she could use MY phone during that time. (This was several years ago before it was easy to get roaming, sim cards, etc.) She was absolutely convinced this person was her soul mate. Her new friend asked her to wear a men's neck tie when she picked her up at the airport, and she was more than happy to do that. I thought she should pay me back my 100 bucks before buying strangers lavish trips and gifts. So no, I didn't have time to check out hotels for her, and I wasn't interested in being her friend after that. I heard later that girl didn't even sleep with her in the end, and was actually checking out guys when they went out clubbing. Also, this young lady never contacted my friend again once she got back to her own country.

R68 Sad. Some people get so obsessed with finding a mate that they waste their entire life chasing after worthless people and alienate their actual friends in the process to the point the friends want nothing more to do with them. They just don’t have any common sense.

Yeah. It was a friend who steered me badly for YEARS. She gave people memory dumps every time she fucked up, just so she could continue to take advantage of them. That's why I didn't know for so long.

Although she doesn't have Down's, she's retarded. Went to culinary school and yet still can't make a sandwich. All of the food she serves contains blood because she keeps injuring herself with cutlery that she can't use properly. Basically, she can't do anything right, but considers herself a genius nevertheless. Her technical problems are pretty much unmatched.

She also thought that her hermaphrodite organs made her God's gift to bisexual and gay men. Her dominant gender is female and she lives as a woman, even though she's intersex with both sex organs. But, by all accounts, she is horrible in bed and even though she has both organs and they both function, so to speak, they're mangled, deformed, misshapen and discolored.

Anyhow, she ditched all of her friends once she turned 21 and decided that she wanted to become a metalhead, even though she secretly loathed metal. It was really her second choice of subculture, because she wasn't elite enough to run with the highbrow hipsters, who didn't like her gimmicky, non-genuine personality.

Then, a bunch of truths surfaced. She had always been abusive, a relentless stalker and a covetous narcissist...but then, she became the world's biggest coattail-rider and name-dropper, too. If you weren't covered in tattoos and in an edgy experimental band, she wanted nothing to do with you... though, paradoxically, her definition of socially-desirable people wanted nothing to do with her, either.

She was entitled and prone to spoiled, nasty behavior, but expected others to demonstrate the utmost kindness and grace. Even if they did, she'd still find fault.

Her head-steering held me back in life for YEARS and landed me in all kinds of trouble. She wouldn't stop, because she wanted attention and she was jealous that I excelled in things and she couldn't grasp the basics in anything she tried her hand at. She also tried to be with every guy I've ever dated, and scared those that actually bothered to give her a chance, within a day or less.

I had to put an engineer on her so she didn't obsess over my weight. She's the type of person that will stalk you relentlessly and follow you around everywhere if you are extremely thin, which I am.

Lastly, since her steering has cost me so much, she's a menace, and our differences are irreconcilable, I might as well just say it: she wasn't born a hermaphrodite. She was originally female, but her abusive nature caused her to grow a deformed, purple penis coming out of her female sex organs. She had it surgically removed on several occasions, but it kept growing back because she was a cruel, fraudulent person that did a lot of phony acting in her personal life and misrepresented herself to everyone she knew.

Whenever things are going well for me or I'm in good company, she mysteriously reappears so she can self-promote. Even if it's been years since we've talked, her ass is right there if she sees a good opportunity. I let her, because I feel sorry for her at this point(and she knows it).

She's a pig.

^^ WTH ?!?

I agree, r69.

R68, sorry to state the obvious, but your friend is/was kind of a loser and a dupe.

Mine was the opposite of what many of you went through. I've known a guy S for almost 16 years now. Met him through some common friends and although we became friends I always was very wary of him.

S can be extremely blunt and honest to the point of being rude and I kept my distance from him for years, being cordial with him but not trusting him. I thought he was self-absorbed and rude until I got to observe him more closely on three different occasions in the last 8 years. Each time some friend was going through very tough times or just needed someone to lend an ear or even help. Every single time S was there for each of them, being patient but firm, showing empathy and offering help without expecting anything in return.

Those experiences helped me understand him a lot better. He still has a short fuse and can be very blunt with people, but I've realized that he is as impatient with himself and in fact a lot more forgiving of other people's foibles than he is of himself. I wonder sometimes if he might be on the spectrum. He is kind, helpful and unfailingly loyal.

Even with his rudeness I noticed that he was always unfailingly polite with service staff and anyone he interacted with. Only his friends and I got to experience his rude bluntness but it feels almost strange to say that I don't detect any malice in anything he says or does.

I am far closer to him as a friend now than I used to be. Those situations where he stepped up and helped out our common friends showed me that his loyalty and straightforward honesty are praiseworthy traits in any friend.

R72 I'm not going to dispute that at all. The other thing is that she just wouldn't shut the fuck up about how this person is their soul mate and had to plan her new friend's visit down to a T. Good riddance.

I was friends for a while with an Asian person. I broke it off when he said that China is great and that democracy is not the important. He himself wasn't Chinese, his parents were.

I had a very rough home life in high school. I also got pregnant. Boyfriend, in retrospect, was predatory and abusive but at the time I didn’t see it. I had an abortion.

My best friend in high school knew about this. We drifted apart over the years but somehow reconnected years later.

When we reconnected, the only thing she wanted to talk about was my abortion 15 years earlier. It was so weird and creepy.

I obviously have avoided her ever since.

That's so weird, R76!

"Hey, we haven't seen each other for decades! How are you? Do you remember that really traumatic thing that happened to you? Let's discuss it!"

My BFF was a ringer for Jackie Kennedy. I realized she is actually Jackie Gleason.

I STILL PINE away for "friends" from literally 30 years ago... one was a roommate and fellow co-worker, the other one also a former co-worker who lived in the same apartment complex as me and my roommate literally only doors away.....

they did me wrong, but yet i still think about them, still unbeknownst to them go to their facebook page, and i still wonder if they ever EVER think about me and whatever happened to me and if they realize their wrong or simply they have utterly moved on?...

i guess because i have no friends now except my dog and it was a time where i was young and full of ambition and dreams (that never came true) i cling to the memory of them and all.....

I guess i could reach out to them just to say hi and do you remember me, but why? they both live far away from me and what do you say "so what's been going on with you for the past 30 years?!" never mind, i'm not exactly happy or proud of what my life has become.

last note, these 2 former "friends' are still friends with each other, or at least friends on facebook....

A frau now ex-friend decided to tell me she was putting her dog down by sending the euthanasia invoice to me in a text with no explanation. She'd done this before and I never really gave a shit until this last time, that was because I was in the middle of watching my 16 year old Tuxedo slowly die of kidney failure. I took her to the vet twice a week for 8 months for subcutaneous fluid injections in an attempt to slow down or reverse the decline. I also never told the frau because I didn't want the endless concern texts and messages I knew she'd send, it was hard enough to deal with and I didn't have the energy to let her pull my focus.

She found out through a mutual friend a week or so after my cat died and true to form she bombarded me with concern messages which I ignored. I finally blocked her.

When he called the day of my father's funeral and said the following "I am just checking to make sure you don't expect me to go to your father's funeral, I have plans in Maine this weekend" We had been friends for over 15 years, lived together as roommates and he was like a brother to me. We still are friends, but it has never been the same.

R5 - you are a petty, conniving score-keeper. THAT is why no one came to the funeral.

R81, what the hell is wrong with some people? Why say that to someone? I really wouldn't blame you if you never spoke to him again.

Yes, I had a friend who was a fan of horror films just like I was. Christopher Lee died and then Wes Craven died a few months later so we got to talking about them both, how much their work meant to us, and life and death in general. I made what I felt was a harmless joke trying to lighten up the mood and said "My favorite actor died and then my favorite director. I must be cursed." He got all pissy about it and said "what an incredibly cruel and selfish thing to say." Then we didn't talk for about a week and he came back acting like nothing ever happened.

But up until that point I thought he understood me perfectly and was one of the only people I'd ever met that made me feel that way. It was in that moment I realized he never really did at all.

R67 or something wrong with them.

Seriously.

R84, that sucks and I've been there.

I had that maybe 3x in my life; pal in college and that ended when college did, sadly; another friend committed suicide and another was transactional, so it was destined to end.

I hate life.

I had one really close friend with whom I could share everything. During a phone conversation I learned, through an off hand reference, that he had used my husband’s death as gossip fodder..

I hung up, blocked him and never spoke with him again

Being discreet is important in a friendship. I have a friend who I really have to monitor myself around. She's such a blabbermouth. It's almost not worth it.

I have another friend: Italian and believes in the zip-it (no pun or slur intended) culture. I, also, come from a culture that values zipping it. (Zip it means keep your damn mouth shut.)

a "friend' who knew i was moving across country 2 months before it happened and never found the time to see me....

the weekend i was moving, she called me up to wish me good luck (right before my home phone land line was turned off) and goodbye but she was attending one of those all weekend weddings so she couldn't physically see me off...

moved across country and never saw her again, UNTIL a couple of years later she called me at my parent's home and told me she has been visiting relatives near by and was near me, at the airport and her plane leaves in a hour can i find the time to see her! never mind, it takes at least 30 minutes to get to the airport and her waiting LITERALLY the last hour before she flew back across country to "want to see me"! told her that i couldn't make it in time and that was that! never seen or heard from her again, and this is about 15 years ago...

An old college friend called me on the phone. At the time, I still lived in the town where we went to college, and so did a bunch of our other college friends. Old Friend who called me had relocated far away.

Anyway, during our conversation, Old Friend let it slip that he had been in my town and had gotten together with some of our mutual friends. I know Old Friend's travel habits and he usually will stay for a lot longer than a weekend.

I said, "You were here and didn't call me?" For some reason, I just started laughing.

Not sure what the hell happened. My guess is that I'm not as "successful" as some of our other friends.

Old Friend had stayed at my place in the past while traveling, so this was a surprise that he just blew me off like that.

[Quote] you are a petty, conniving score-keeper. THAT is why no one came to the funeral.

Impossible, r82. I became that AFTER the funeral. Your logic needs some help, hon. Get back on your meds, loon.

I did. I had been a faithful friend and loyal supporter of a friend whose life was a series of misfortunes. After a couple decades, I realised that he was the author of his own crises because he believed that rules and laws applied to everyone else but not him. I no longer believed in him and could no longer support him.

My dad one Christmas basically said to me, “your brother is a lot smarter than you, but I admire the fact you work so hard.”

This was an epiphany for several reasons.

My dad’s very toxic second wife is constantly embroiled in feuds with her siblings. About the worst thing you could do to her is imply one of her siblings is smarter. My dad, I think, has learned from her how to weaponize such comments.

So, from this exchange, I learned that he’s gone all in on her insane ways (up to that point I’d assumed he knew she was crazy and just indulged her.)

It also told me he was being deliberately cruel to me— he had put some thought into it.

Also, it let me know that my father is truly stupid. My brother works his ass off. And I am much more perceptive than my brother, which I consider the most important form of intelligence.

Also, my brother and I really love each other and have each other’s backs. So, you can’t turn us against each other. My dad is too stupid to get any of that.

My dad is not only a dumb bitch, he’s too stupid to even snark correctly.

He will never be DL material.

[quote] So, from this exchange, I learned that he’s gone all in on her insane ways (up to that point I’d assumed he knew she was crazy and just indulged her.)

People always assume that the spouse is somehow still a good person (e.g., Melania Trump). My sister was married to a grifter. No, I don't think she's a grifter as well, but I think she's an enabler with self-esteem problems.

Point is: a healthy, normal person is not going to stay married to a toxic-type person.

I was hanging out with this pal, or so I thought, a bit; we'd run into each other at the same coffee shop a few mornings a week, we went to a few movies.

I texted him one time to say: Hey, wanna hang out?

He shot back - 'busy, let's grab a movie next week maybe?'

'Sure'

A mutual friend was there when he got the text and later told me he said; "I don't know how to say no to this guy."

I thought oh. Well, I don't want to force a friendship on anyone. Did I mention we live in Los Angeles? And he's an aspiring actor? He asked if I could help him out with a few connections. I made a few introductions and I guess he only wants people around who can help him.

I JUST passed him today on the street; we were talking in opposite directions; he was on the phone; we nodded a hello and kept walking.

I really liked him. Thought he was a sweet guy.

Stories like the one at R90 resonate with me, too. I had a group of friends in college who obviously didn't value my friendship all that much and I often felt left out. I didn't bother keeping in touch with them starting about 5 years after graduation, except, rarely, with one friend who lived in a city about 2-3 hours away from mine. A few years ago, she mentioned to me that she sometimes came to the city with her kid and walked past the building she knew I worked in and told her, "Mommy's friend works there." Friend? How am I your friend if you come to town and don't call me before, during, or after? I have to laugh. Some people!

[quote] he had used my husband’s death as gossip fodder

R87, I'm not quite sure what this means. Something he said himself made you realize that?

R95, that “mutual friend” is a fucking fire starter. Punch and delete. Those people are nothing but trouble.

R70 What in the fuck?

[quote] I texted him one time to say: Hey, wanna hang out?

R95, that sucks, what happened to you. Agree with R98 that the "mutual friend" is a troublemaker.

I'm assuming you're young because, at a certain age, I don't think people text each other to ask whether they want to "hang out." (IME, it's usually an invitation for something more specific. But, in reality, you are "hanging out" and spending time with a friend.)

Are you a bit younger than this guy you texted?

R70, pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a memory dump?

Just to add to the others here, R95. Yeah, it's disappointing re: that friend of yours, but the mutual so-called "friend"? Punch and delete, now.

Someone I considered a close friend borrowed money from me and other freinds and colleagues of his. He paid them back later except me because they all threatened to file a complaint at his work or go to the court. He knew that I would be easier on him and won't take a hard stance against him that's why he didn't care much to pay me back. This was exactly what hurt me most, not the money issue itself. Eventually he paid me back when I threatened to expose him at work. He sent me few messages afterwards and apologized a lot and said I was the best and the kindest to him and he abused our friendship, but I never talked to him again.

I was friends growing with my straight cousin who is the same age as me. It eventually got to the stage where I was putting in all the effort. Would never contact me for any reason and everything we did was as low effort for him as possible - he'd invite me to his place to hang out which would mean he would do all his weekend chores while I sat on the steps with a beer watching him garden, paint the shed, clean the car, etc.

Eventually I got annoyed with him and said directly that I was making all the effort and wouldn't be doing that anymore. He said he'd call. That was 20 years ago. During this time he's had a few kids and I've never once been contacted to attend multiple family gatherings. Other relatives have also had functions that I've never been asked to. He recently had a huge 80th birthday for his mother. All my relatives from out of state were invited and attended. My brother and mother were asked as well. I was the only one who was not and I live probably 40 minutes from him. My mother sent them a huge bunch of flowers from our family. Everyone received a thank you text or call for the gift except for me.

The one good thing about all of this is that when all these relatives start to die I will not feel any guilt about not attending any of their funerals.

No. I'm too self involved and narcissistic to pay much attention to the failings of my friends!

My mother when she told me that if she had to choose between my step father and her kids, she would choose him. And she did. She stood by and let him kick all her kids out of the house for minor infractions. Ever since, I've limited my contact with her.

A friend I've known for over 30 years. They were the one I thought had it all together. Then they made some really bad financial decisions and ended up unemployed and desperate for money. I loaned them a lot of money, took them out to dinners etc. Then said friend ended up in a relationship with a guy who moved in with them immediately and promptly cheated. My friend has let them stay in the apartment because they get high together and she needs the money he pays her in rent. Mind you, this guy is paying about a quarter of my friend's rent because he was getting "the boyfriend discount" and my friend is still desperate for money. But she isn't doing anything to pursue a new, higher paying job...all she does now is get high. And I know how much pot costs. She hasn't paid me a dime back from all the money I've loaned her. I honestly didn't expect her to, but it would be nice to not know about how much $ she can spend on pot and how she's letting this dude take advantage of her.

Gee how long does it take a gay guy to realize that when a straight friend has a significant other enter into a relationship with them that the relationship with you means little. No matter how close the two of you are you are nothing but a stop gap.

When I was in an abusive relationship and reached out, some friends were there, and some were afraid of my lover, who threatened anyone I had contact with via an insane barrage of angry abusive phone calls. You get an angry phone call from someone clearly indicating I'm in some serious danger 1000 miles away and you're too SCARED to maybe call the cops? Fuck off, coward, I'm ashamed to know you. You could at least admit that you didn't give a shit that I was in trouble and all it did was make your day a little worse momentarily so you wrote me off. Also, my sister said she wished that bitch had finished the job and killed me, so I don't talk to my sister much anymore.

[quote]Gee how long does it take a gay guy to realize that when a straight friend has a significant other enter into a relationship with them that the relationship with you means little. No matter how close the two of you are you are nothing but a stop gap.

To be fair, the same thing has happened to me with gay friends. Likewise, I know straight people who have said the same thing has happened to them with their friends.

It’s not a straight or gay thing. People in general seem to ditch everyone that was there for them when they were single as soon as they get involved with someone, and then when it all falls apart, they want to come back and be friends again as if nothing happened. Uh, no bitch. You didn’t have time for me then, so don’t bother now.🙋🏻‍♂️

[quote]When I was in an abusive relationship and reached out, some friends were there, and some were afraid of my lover, who threatened anyone I had contact with via an insane barrage of angry abusive phone calls. You get an angry phone call from someone clearly indicating I'm in some serious danger 1000 miles away and you're too SCARED to maybe call the cops? Fuck off, coward, I'm ashamed to know you. You could at least admit that you didn't give a shit that I was in trouble and all it did was make your day a little worse momentarily so you wrote me off.

Uhh....you were obviously just as much of a coward if you couldn’t call the cops yourself. Why should your friends get involved if your psycho BF is threatening them? And I’ve seen this situation so many times where the friends DO try to get help for their friend, only for the dumbass friend to cover for the BF and deny anything is wrong so he won’t get in trouble.

I’m siding with your friends on this one. If anything, YOU should have called the cops for letting that psycho harass your friends.

[quote]My mother when she told me that if she had to choose between my step father and her kids, she would choose him. And she did. She stood by and let him kick all her kids out of the house for minor infractions. Ever since, I've limited my contact with her.

You’re more forgiving than I am because I would have never spoken to her again until she sincerely apologized. I can’t stand these women who are so desperate for dick they choose some piece of shit man over their own kids. If you’re that desperate for dick, don’t bother having kids.

R104 What a piece of shit. And so is the rest of your immediate family for still being nice to him.

My mother is one of those old ladies ho loves to talk small talk all day long. Since my father dies she's been very lonely and this was certainly exacerbated by the lock downs. I would call every second day or so to check in on her and listen to her prattle on with endless stores about the coming and goings of neighbors and how lonely she was.

I've never been the favorite child but I've always made and effort to keep in touch and make sure she wasn't alone at Christmas.

When the lockdowns were lifted I went and visited and within 15 minutes she pointed out how much weight I's put on (like almost every office worker stuck at home). Not only that, she also argued with my uncle IN FRONT OF ME when he said he thought I looked fine and had actually lost a bit of weight.

I've had my differences with her before but this just really changed things for me, in a quiet way. I won't be sorting her out Christmas anymore and only call once or twice a week. I just don't care that much now.

A friend who I've known since high school who was always a little slutty, called me up one day and told me she met some guy outside of 7-11 and they smoked weed together. He was homeless and gave her a story about how his gf had kicked him out and he had no where to go and so my friend brought him home to live with her! She had a minor daughter and only trusted this guy because she thinks anyone who smokes weed is ok. He lived there for a few months until they had some argument about something and he threatened her and she kicked him out.

I mean, what exactly did she expect was going to happen? She's always been a risk taker but to me, to put her daughter in danger like that was beyond the pale. I haven't really been able to look at her the same.

Just reading that story creeped me out, R114. When you said "she had a minor daughter.." brrr! Thankfully it sounds like nothing happened there. How can people be so irresponsible?

A lot of these stories sound like people were being treated as doormats. I've allowed myself to be a doormat as well, so, I'm not judging. However, just pointing it out.

It's helpful/cathartic to read about other people being abandoned by friends who either A) didn't show up for you when you were really in trouble or B) ditched you once they found a lover.

I've had a lot of both. It really, really sucks. Some were rven griends for 10+ years until poof! They decided I wasn't necessary anymore.

I get too excited about people, truthfully. I tend to form bonds quickly and let them into my life fully, make time for them, love them, keep in touch with them, show up for them.....and they all inevitably away. And usually act like the friendship was always one-sided or something, just so they can feel better about suddenly going cold as ice.

Hearing "we were never best friends, by the way" from someone who was shy, introverted, had no other close friends and knew you for 9 years....that hurts. Wasn't I the one who you regularly leaned on about romantic problems, family problems, financial problems and emotional problems? I was. But okay. Now you have a (weirdo, jealous, unemployable) boyfriend who hates seeing you close with another guy so I guess you need to push me out of your life....nice. Real nice.

I've had friends - people I really cared about - suddenly start telling my private stuff to others after drifting away....or pull the gradual "oh...sorry I didn't return your voicemail from three months ago/didn't see your text messages....but I've just been SO BUSY...." rather than address whatever has made our relationship change.

You'd think a real friend would just be honest and say "so....I think since having a baby/getting married/switching careers, I'm focusing on different things and probably won't be reaching out to you regularly anymore. I only hang out with other parents/couples/colleagues. I really enjoyed our hangouts and talks but I don't see more of that in our future - take care of yourself and sorry." THAT would be so much kinder than denying the friendship is over, saying "let's hang out soon - keep in touch!" and make me write Happy Birthday/Merry Xmas/How are things? messages every few weeks until I finally realize you weren't being honest and finally give up. It's humiliating.

Sometimes they even start a random argument as an inciting incident (which is bizarre because I don't waste energy fighting with my friends. I love em. I talk things out) and if there is, it's usually them getting feisty out of nowhere as an excuse for ending the friendship. People are strange.

...it has all taught me to be my own best friend. To tell myself the kind and useful things I tell others when they are having a hard time.

I've spent too many years wishing for a friend to share my life with. People come, laugh and hug you, and then get bored and leave. The only person actually staying is me. So I try to be my own cheerleader. It works sometimes. But there are days when I really wish I had someone who would say "hey, I know you - something is really wrong. Tell me..." or "of course you're invited - you're family!"

It's especially sad being halfway through my life (possibly) and knowing most of the people I invested in are gone. Any new friends I make will never turn and say "remember high school/college/that party?" Those people have left me behind.

Sometimes I think the people who don't get cast aside are the ones others find useful in a social status type way. Maybe I'm just not useful enough.

See, there I go - feeling down on myself. I'm great. I'm loyal and thoughtful and sincere. I almost never cut anyone out.

You can't judge your worth based on how many friends you have. I've known objectively amazing people who died alone. It's not fair at all. They deserved caring people around them. But that's life.

So be kind to yourselves people. I mean that.

The real value of a person is not how much he loves but how much he is loved by others.

R102, yeah; I thought about the mutual friend. the thing is there's a disparity in our ages; I'm the oldest; the guy who said he didn't know how to say no is the youngest and the other friend ("friend') is in between; he thought he was doing me a favor. That's the best I can say.

The thing is they're BOTH actors. You cannot. You simply CANNOT be friends with actors.

They. Don't. Know. How.

Boy do I know that, R119. Or anyone in the "wants to be famous" game. My friend (who I no longer see) will ONLY talk about himself when everyone gets together and laughs and says: "I'm high maintenance, that's just who I am!" as though it's cute that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself and his stupid plans for fame (he's way too old for it now, and has no unique talent that would get him there, unfortunately). His poor boyfriend who is self-medicated up to his eyeballs, because his whole purpose in life has become "emotional support person" to his narcissist boyfriend.

And you just know that if he made it, he would dump the rest of us in no time, no matter how supportive we had been, because he would get to hang out with some stupid D-list 'celebrities' from Love Island or similar. This is why I gradually moved away from our friendship over the past year (moving states helped), and I'm not even sure he's noticed that I've gone. But it was so tiring being around just for the purpose of being his cheerleader. It really drains you.

R100, just saw your post now.

No, I'm the oldest one in the group.

But I look young and I never grew up.

I never had any real joy or fun in my childhood; I was too busy surviving it. So I'm trying to make up for lost time, maybe. And I lead with my heart.

The young one in the group -- the one who 'didn't know how to say no' to me, he actually asked me once how old I was when I came out. And did I know the name of a good shrink. (We were alone at the coffee shop when this happened.)

I think he was maybe trying to come out to me...I tried to be there and just offered up stories of my life; didn't put any pressure on him. I thought either he was making conversation or he was taking a peek outside the closet.

He did tell me he was straight.

Three times.

For the longest time I was drawn to straight and bi men until, at some point years, one of them mentioned having recent sex with a woman. He said, "A hole is a hole." I finally woke up to the fact that these men actually had sex with a women. Realized I was in denial and actually believed they were only sexually attracted to me.

I'm now only with gay men.

[R110] Thanks for your helpful reply. I'm a woman. Maybe women are a little sneakier than men; I didn't know she called them. I would try to reach out and hear nothing, thinking all my family and friends had abandoned me, or I had done something to upset them. 'Cept the good friends. They reached out to me via other methods to ask if I was okay, offer me a place to stay, and explain what she was doing to me. Of course I didn't know who to believe at first. Of course I was hurt and confused and wanted to trust the person I loved the most in the world. When things got violent, I called the cops, to have them respond with absolutely nothing. But when the cops offered nothing I knew who I could turn to. And who didn't give a fuck.

It's been a long time since I was in that relationship and I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you can sympathize.

I'm watching the movie Mikey and Nicky now, it is about a life long friendship with Peter Faulk. It's pretty good, with some uncomfortable moments, I just jumped onto this thread to mention it and saw your reply.

In my closeted days I was friends with a straight woman for several years. We weren't exceptionally close, but enjoyed each other's company. She would always ask for help with various things, like computer issues, car questions, etc. And she was kind and thoughtful, remembering birthdays and such. I even helped her move apartments twice, once on a 3 floor walkup (never again).

She was transferred to another city, and was gone for about 3 months when I got a phone call saying, "This is Elaline ____'s secretary. Elaine is going to be in Dallas on February 3. She is meeting friends at Cheddar's at 7 p.m. Can I put you down for this?"

Too busy to call me herself? Sheesh. We never spoke again.

^Really? That's all it took for you to punch and delete a friend of several years who had always been thoughtful and considerate of you in the past?

Wow.

Yeah R124 - you sound a bit “high maintenance.”

Expect a customized snippy reply from my secretary shortly.

I would actually appreciate that secretary appointment, personally.

[quote] I was friends with a straight woman for several years. She would always ask for help with various things, like computer issues, car questions, etc. And she was kind and thoughtful, remembering birthdays and such. I even helped her move apartments twice, once on a 3 floor walkup (never again). She was transferred to another city, and was gone for about 3 months when I got a phone call saying, "This is Elaline ____'s secretary. Elaine is going to be in Dallas on February 3. She is meeting friends at Cheddar's at 7 p.m. Can I put you down for this?"

IMO, the relationship sounds one-sided, maybe. I've helped a *lot* of people move apartments, incl. 3rd or 4th-floor walk-ups. It's a huge favor, IMO. I also have specialized knowledge about a couple of things and people do call and ask questions. Under normal circumstances, I would charge for the information. It gets tiring, frankly.

R125 Did you not read correctly what R124 wrote? He was the one doing EVERYTHING for her. How is it high maintenance to be pissed that after all he did for her, she couldn’t even phone herself? The fact that she never bothered to contact him again shows what she thought of the friendship and was just a user.

It just happened yesterday. Two people who are running the local pride scene now and I've considered friends, just went on a rant on FB live for an HOUR while drunk and essentially talked shit about a ton of people who are part of our community. How every previous promoter and organizer, performer or leader has slighted them, done other things etc. Also made shit out of our community in general, saying we're too "dumb" to plan our own Pride events, we should thank them daily etc. It was sick. People are furious. I messaged both of them. One called me on Facetime and ranted for twenty minutes before hanging up on me. The other one pretty much told me to shut up. Absolutely floored. I did not think they were like this. They moved here a few years ago and went from being "fresh faces" on the scene to absolute monsters. As of today I unfriended them on FB & told them to piss off. Thing is, I've been through this before a few times recently. I always used to think people were just as they appeared to you. Now I know better.

I am having an epiphany now. Slow, but developing.

r27 obviously has lots of inappropriate, unprofessional expectations of everyone — the trainer and gym members alike.

If you think "the other guys" at the gym are all — or even mostly — assholes, you're the asshole.

If you pre-judge everybody to be like the bullies in your childhood — you're the asshole.

If you think you can pay for "buddies" or expect your personal trainer to be your friend or boyfriend, you're the asshole.

You need a shrink and some social skills.

R130 - you’re the one with reading comprehension problems - he didn’t do EVERYTHING in the friendship - “ And she was kind and thoughtful, remembering birthdays and such.” They “enjoyed each other’s company. She was arranging a get together, and invited him - the definition of doing SOMETHING - but because the invite came through her secretary Mr Butt-Hurt decided that was some kind slight, instead of a busy friend making time to see him — and he acted like a child. She then reacted properly to his infantile hissy-fit and cut him off. You sound high maintenance yourself.

Everyone here seems so "precious" in their hurt, the other guy has done them wrong, so they'll show them, cut the bitch!

I may be in the same wagon …. a long-time friend I've run with, sailed with, traveled with, cooked for, gone to concerts and theater …. similar background, education and interests, a good dresser. always up on current events, maybe is a little too impressed by "stars" and money. Never a sexual situation here. All along there was one difference bothering me, he isn't swish but thinks gay and will "camp" in conversation. I've mentioned l don't see any reason for it, don't do it, don't like it. We've gone about and exchanged email, talked on the phone for years. He usually knows only one pronoun, she. She this, she that, all the world is gay. We spoke often through the Covid until three months ago. There was no tit for tat on the phone calls. They just happened. I enjoyed them, enjoyed calling, but just over three months ago I, no reasoning behind it, didn't call for four-five days, did not receive a call. A week turned into two, then three. My bad here, my only thought was "well he is doing a 'well if she isn't going to call me I'm certainly not going to call Her!' number." That thinking hurt, but I did nothing. Yet. Worse, I think the less of him now, but here I am, acting like him, and thinking less of myself. Is my life less without the calls, yes a bit. Do I care? Somewhat ….but, there's always the but .

r47, it sounds like your friend was telling the truth and just trying to help.

Maybe she had the wrong approach, but I wouldn't fault her.

r55 should just see if his friend is willing to do things together without the selfish posse.

If not, yes DROP THEM all.

I think that's pretty horrible having a secretary call to make an appointment to see a friend. What the fuck is wrong with some of you people?

I had a friend about 20 years ago, and we would do everything together. She was an extrovert, and i'm and introvert and she really brought me out of my shell. We all shared the same group of friends and would often hang out together. This other girl in our friend group started hanging out with us. Eventually they became closer and i was dumped. She stopped calling me completely. I had no idea what i did to her.

Fast forward 20 years and we reconnected on facebook, also her friend added me as a friend too. She private messaged me on FB and "apologized" for dumping me so long ago. I believe she was in AA and this was just part of her 12 step amends. At the time i gave her a just like" oh, forget about it." kind of response, and i wish i hadn't. It really bothers me why she chose her other friend over me. I constantly see their fb pictures of them hanging out, and BFF posts. It makes me think she's a shitty person.

Beware of alcoholics calling, purportedly doing their fifth step.

r20 = Lame Troll

-758,423,097,540,392,852,473,265/10

r70 is the Lame Troll, that is.

-758,423,097,540,392,852,473,265/10

People say that about L.A. all the time, r95. That people in show business are always nice because they want their options open, need everyone to like them and never know when they'll have to work with potentially anyone else.

But that it's all fake and they "only want people around who can help them."

Well, r98, what if you have a true friend who really likes you and just wants to warn you off of someone who doesn't?

What if you had a true friend and you caught their S.O. cheating on them? Would you tell your friend? Would that make you a "fire starter?"

I'd rather have a loyal friend who's looking out for my best interests, as long as she doesn't sell my sensitive info out to others capitalistically.

Is homophobia involved, r104?

What r107 describes is true of ALL people of all orientations and I don't see why people have a problem with it.

Should a best friend have the priority of a S.O. or family? Fuck no. If you still have to be the primary person in a friend;s life when they find a lover, you're delusional.

People should be okay with spending less time with friends when relationships happen. I always find ways to include both the friend and the S.O. thereafter, anyway.

[quote]she thinks anyone who smokes weed is ok

Wow.

r117 sounds like a good person who would benefit from being less needy and not expect intimate companionship from most friends.

I've had lots of good friendships with actors, r119, though what you said was funny.

I guess I can say I've had negative experiences with some HOT, vain actors — but not all.

I would caution r135 about making a big deal out of less contact with friends during the pandemic.

If you're a smart, decent person, you SHOULDN'T have been doing many activities with your friends over the last year and everyone should have just accepted that.

Now that the pandemic is winding down, you can get vaccinated and maybe start back to normal activities..

Why, r140? What were your bad experiences? Did somebody have ulterior motives?

[quote]I would caution about making a big deal out of less contact with friends during the pandemic.

I agree. My spouse and I were wintering in Palm Springs this past winter. A friend in AZ texted and wanted to come and stay with us for a few days. We hadn't been vaccinated yet. When we didn't get back to her right away she texted a snarky reply. I texted back and said due to the pandemic we weren't hosting this year. We received a curt response, I think the friendship is over on our end.

R151, my bad experience was with an ex-BF. We had a difficult start in our relationship b/c of him being a man whore. Call me a prude, but I'm not interested in open relationships and monogamy is important to me.

I broke up with him (not b/c of man whore stuff) and we didn't communicate for years. Out of nowhere, he contacted me. He was married and said he was separated, about to get divorced, blah blah blah. He said that, after our break-up, he went on a long bender and ended up in AA.

He said he wanted to do Step 5 and apologize to me. I said: Apologize for what? (I couldn't remember anything he did that he hadn't already apologized for.) He said he was apologizing for a mean letter he had written to me a long time ago. In retrospect, this was a something he pulled out of his ass in order to have a reason to contact me.

Anyway, I got drawn into something sexual with him and, of course, he wasn't really done being married. The worst part is that I ended up doing something I'm not proud of - being a 3rd wheel in somebody's marriage. Ugh!

R136 Maybe we can't expect them to but some people lack an understanding of the experience of major depression.

A long time friend and I had been talking about visiting Mexico. I already knew she was neurotic. One day we met up for a hike. I was a little early and waited in the parking lot. She pulled in a couple minutes "late" (I didn't care) and hurried out of her car apologizing and saying she'd gotten lost and making a big deal out of it. I decided I would NOT be traveling to Mexico with her or travel ANYWHERE with her. How could I have forgotten what an ordeal everything is for her? I went to Indonesia with some other friends instead.

I find that people who make firm judgments based on being a few minutes late are hyper-literal, borderline low-IQ people I don’t care to spend time with.

R155 - traveling on vacation with good friends often goes poorly - even if you know someone well, and spend a fair amount of time together, vacations are another thing entirely. There are so many variables as to what a person expects, and how they want to “be” while on vacation that you and your friend are bound to clash; even if you discuss desires & expectations beforehand; which most people don’t.

that is so true about traveling. My parents and siblings still go to the beach every summer together. I can't stand it, everyone has different schedules and someone ends up fighting. I refuse to go again.

I went to a concert out of town with a good friend of mine. She got really snippy at me about where to eat. I didnt say anything to her, but that was the last time i decided to travel with her.

My brother refers to this as “travel mode.”

As a young child, he noticed that our father basically became a monster because dealing with unfamiliarity on vacation stressed him out so much.

Some people go on vacation because they welcome new experiences... our father hated them.

Reason #2089 why we would have been better off raised by wolves than by our idiotic, abusive father.

A close friend never paid me for something relatively insignificant he insisted on buying from me. I decided not to let it ruin the friendship as he has otherwise been a good friend but I realized I will never do business with him.

“You wouldn’t lose a friendship over a mere book, would you?!”

“No. But he has, hasn’t he?”

I treated a very dear friend whom I had known for many years like a piece of shit letting him down because I was going through a very very bad patch. When I have reached out to him he is polite-he hasn't ghosted me-but he has completely lost the genuine warmth he once had for me. I have tried explaining it to him but I broke his trust and it is something that can't be fixed. When you suddenly see someone for who they really are as he saw me you can't go back. That whole believe people when they tell you who they are applies to me.

R162 I feel like it’s different wren someone is contrite and apologizes. Most of these people don’t seem sorry. Hopefully your friend can forgive you.

Awww, DLers getting all vulnerable & letting us in on who hurt you. Seriously though, I find a lot of the stories shared here relatable. I've always been ashamed that it took me half my lifetime at the time to realize my then-best friend was a sociopath.

I was the first to come out to him as gay. It was just a lovefest at the time even with the straight friends we had then. Later un he confessed to me that he was "bi" and eventually gay (surprise!). It was then that things got worse. One incident I couldn't get over at the time was he asked me to hang out with him and his bf at the time. I said I didn't feel like playing 3rd wheel but doormat that I was then I still went along (he had a ride & promised to drive me home). The short of it was that they ended up having sex in front of me cos they just couldn't help it. I was trapped in a house far from home with no ride until they were done. I was miffed and didn't talk the whole ride home. Right before I got off the car, he asked "Are you mad at me?" He really didn't get it. That was just one of many that I let slide.

It took me a long time to get over that friendship. There were great memories tied in along with very bad ones that had me doubting my worth. It made me more discerning of people I wanted to associate with. Also made me realize that some relationships just run their course and you outgrow them.

I don't invest any time in trolling and I'm not about to start today. You're just so dull, sheltered and myopic that you find other people's experiences hard to believe or relate to, because they do not match your own.

Shut up, you shut-in.

WTF, R164? They had sex while you just sat there and watched? Just how trashy was this crush of yours?

R166 He was a childhood friend actually and we kept in touch and hung way into young adulthood. In this incident, we were supposed to just hang out at his bf's house. It was in some exclusive residential area so you just can't go out and get a cab. I was trapped and couldn't make a fuss because the guy wasn't out to his family and I was brought along under the pretense that we were a bunch of guys hanging out.

[R152], I had nearly the same experience. A friend I've known for 30 years called me out the blue. His state had just gone maskless. He's had a bedbug infestation for over a year, but doesn't have the money to keep fighting it. During the conversation he more or less invited himself to stay with me over his birthday. I agreed, but later realized I'd said yes due to wanting to be agreeable.

A few days later, I let him know that I wasn't having anybody to stay until the end of COVID. He told me it would be too expensive to spend money on the airfare and a hotel.

I texted him on his birthday. I heard back a week later. He had to tell me he wasn't home ON his birthday, but was in another city, visiting another friend.

Well if he has a bedbug problem I strongly advise you to never let him visit you.

Not really an epiphany, but my partner’s sister got these mysterious messages from a fake Facebook account last summer asking how she could support a brother who molested some kid years ago. Asked if it ran in the family and that’s why she protects the family secrets. I know my partner was molested by an older stepbrother from the ages 6-12. Obviously, I don’t know if my partner himself molested anyone, but he swears he didn’t. We’re together almost 10 years, so you can imagine how out of left field this came. But it certainly plants this question, or maybe doubt about the person you thought you knew, in the corner of your mind.

Most friendship is feigning, most loving mere folly.

W. Shakespeare

That's Comden and Green!

[quote]i have to say that, over the years ON PURPOSE i stop hanging out with, stop calling "friends" cutting them off cold turkey as a experiment to see if THEY will reach out to ME... if they care enough, worry enough, concerned enough to reach out to me.

Learning that a friend subjected me to manipulative "tests" of our relationship would certainly be an epiphany for me.

R156 is utterly lacking in reading comprehension skills.

[quote]A close friend never paid me for something relatively insignificant he insisted on buying from me. I decided not to let it ruin the friendship as he has otherwise been a good friend but I realized I will never do business with him.

You’re not a good businessman because otherwise you wouldn’t have handed over whatever it was until you had been paid.

[quote] Most friendship is feigning, most loving mere folly.

W. Shakespeare

I never knew that Will was THIS cynical.

It's my fault, R176.

R173... but how would they KNOW i was testing them? Since i was struggling at the time in life, one would think when they didn't see or hear from me, that THAT would trigger major concern on their part and they would at least ATTEMPT to reach out to me right?....

r178, one of the lessons you learn as you grow old is that not everyone thinks as much about you as you do about them. And people aren't mind reader or can "feel" by your absence that something might be wrong with you. Most folks are very self absorbed and unless you ask for help or reach out, they won't notice. I used to be like you and often felt that testing people was a way to determine who deserved my friendship or not. What I realize now is, if you have to test anyone in your life, the problem is within YOU because for whatever reason, you learned to doubt people and their intentions. I know I did this because my parents really didn't give two shits about their kids and so I was constantly doubting the people I let in. It's a trust issue. Once you realize that you are not the center of anyone's world, it's much easier to understand that a lot of people just aren't mind readers or psychic and likely just assume you are busy. And keep in mind that a lot of people are really dense when it comes to how to maintain a friendship. There are those like me who are really good at it but even I go through periods where I pull back from socializing and it's never personal.

You'll be better off learning that lesson now. Don't take anything personally because most of the time, it's not. And when it is, it will be very clear that it is.

I think some people just don't initiate getting together, etc. Unless it's to get laid, etc.

My conclusion: It's easier to be the invitee. You can say no, there's not much work involved.

Importantly: No chance of *rejection*. People don't like to be rejected, even for something like going out for coffee. Kind of a wimpy attitude. Alas, that's my conclusion.

R22 interesting. Why do you think it took you so long to realise and accept that?

I ask, because to this day I still wonder about my highschool crush—only I had the opposite situation to you, in that mine was also my bully and I fucking hated him (at no point were we lovers or even friends—we could barely be civil in class).

We haven’t seen each other or spoken since graduation a decade ago. I’ve seen a couple of more recent pictures of him via a friend of a friend, and he’s an unattractive hetero slob with a wife and a boring desk job now, so I’m no longer physically attracted to the guy at all. Yet I still think about him from time to time, with alternating fondness and fury, for some reason I can’t figure out. It’s like the book hasn’t been closed, we have unfinished business. It’s like having a little niggling parasite in my soul and my mind.

R181 - there is no book to close, other than the imaginary one you keep on writing.

For your own sake, realize there was nothing there except moderate contempt on his side, and he has long since forgotten that you ever existed.

On your side there were several common issues that lots of gay guys face, but ultimately it was, and is, all in your head. Let it go and make room for some better stuff.

[quote]but how would they KNOW i was testing them?

"They didn't catch on that I was doing this shady thing to them, so it's perfectly okay!"

I was really good friends with this guy when we were in our 20s. We hung out a lot and I thought he was a pretty solid friend. Anyway, another friend of mine moved to my city and was very lonely so I would invite him to hang out with us. Before you know it , they're organizing things together and with other members of our circle and not inviting me, and these were group things like going to raves (It was the 90s) meeting in bars or going out to dinner - things that anyone could've been invited to and it wouldn't have made any difference. In the end I was basically excluded from the entire group for trying to do the right thing.

I just do not understand people sometimes. Why would you exclude the one person that helped you find a social life? Not long after this my father died and as you might expect, no-one rang or texted to see how I was going. About a year later I found out that the second friend had had a one nighter with some nurse (he was sort of bi) and she was pregnant. She was going through with having the baby and expected him to support her financially and otherwise and they were in court about it.

As petty as it sounds that kinda made my day when I heard that.

[R184], reading your post reminded me of something that happened years ago. My cousin who lived in Houston asked me if I'd meet up with a friend of his who was visiting Seattle. So, on a work night I collected his friend and we went out to dinner at a good Mexican restaurant. I spoke to my cousin a little while after and asked him if his friend enjoyed his visit. "He thought you were weird," was his reply. I was offended. I asked my cousin to please ask somebody else to amuse his friends when they were in town. I didn't tell my cousin that his ill mannered banker with a W of a friend told me that my cousin never, ever spoke of his family to anyone.

My cousin went off the deep end about fifteen years later. A dormant personality that had been there all his life took over from the dominant personality, a kind of a flip switch. He ex-communicated his entire immediate family on Facebook. Classy, exquisite manners, eh?

And in the interest of full disclosure, if he's a Datalounger, he'll know exactly who I am, and that I outed him for his infantile fuckery. Mais, je m'en fous...

R183...shady or not in your opinion, but it did get the results i suspected sadly...

I don't know maybe it's me, but if i had a "friend" who i knew was struggling in life, i would INHERENTLY know to reach out to him and find out what is going on if all of a sudden he/she went away and/or silent....

R184, that happened to me, to a smaller degree.

I had a new coworker who had also just moved into our town. He was less experienced at work than I was and I helped him work-wise. I invited him to almost everything (social) that I was invited to. It was Halloween and we were all making plans. Next thing you know, I'm out of the equation. New coworker came into my office a few days later to apologize, wanted to "hug it out." I said no. That was the end of him and me socializing.

There was also something that happened before that. Coworker saw me struggling with something at work and I found out later that he had the exact materials that would have helped me. Actually, I should have cut off our friendship right there and then.

I was still professionally polite, however.

I met a great guy when I lived in Chicago. We were mainly FBs but there was some mutual feelings, or so thought.

Soon after I moved to NYC, he called to say he was coming to visit for work. After his meeting, he checked out of his hotel and came to my apartment.

Once we got to my place, I reached out to hug him, and he seemed standoffish. He said he was tired and wanted to take a nap. I led him to my bedroom. when he woke up, he told me he wanted to be just friends, which I guess is fine (isn't that what we were anyway?). When he left the next morning, I realized that he just used me for a place to stay in NYC.

I hate feeling used.

When I first came out, I was so excited to meet other gays.

It took me a long while to realize that when someone said, "I'll call you about..." a party, a friends' night at the bar, having dinner sometime--even as friends--often means, "I'll never call you."

It took me some time but I gained some self respect.

I find sometimes as gays we are overly sensitive in that at the first sign of inconsistency or minor slight, we automatically judge that person as guilty of all the crimes of the people who have hurt or betrayed us.

I know I have been like that and have learned to take a step back and not let past trauma sabotage a relationship. People are imperfect and make mistakes, but I think it’s important to give people the benefit of the doubt, then take more drastic measures if your intuition proves correct.

Yes. When I was in high school I had two best friends (let’s just call them Thelma and Louise) and Thelma was a huge slut!! She went around fucking every cute boy that Louise and I were crushing on. She was a cunt. She also told people I was gay that I had bot come out to yet. Once this all came to light the shit hit the fan and Louise and I avoided Thelma. She reached out a few years back and texts me, I know Louise reconnected with her too. We talk about her behind her back because we still really don’t like her for all her whoring ways. She is trash.

R191 must be the version with Cher as Thelma. A real cunt whom Louise would shoot instead of shooting the rapist.

R192 for real. She is a total trashy wench. I remember being so flustered when this guy I knew from school asked me if it was true that I am gay. I had NEVER told him that. Only Thelma and Louise knew! I instantly figured out that it was Thelma. That bitch could not keep her mouth or her legs closed. She got fat and has a shitty marriage. Karma.

I suspect everyone already knew about you, R193.

R194 perhaps, but it wasn’t her place to tell. No more than it would have been my place to tell her boyfriend that she was fucking Louise’s brother on the side. She was a vindictive cunt.

r186, you assume everyone thinks/feels like you do when they do not. Most people don't inherently know when someone is struggling or even if they do, it doesn't mean they will react in the same way you would.

The sooner you learn that lesson in life, the better you feel. I get that you are likely highly empathetic. In fact, I think most gay people are because of what we've endured and how we grew up knowing we were different. But others are not and human nature is self indulgent and self centered. It's best to give some people the benefit of the doubt and to know that just because your mind works one way, that doesn't mean that someone else even shares your basic thought processes and/or empathy.

For example, one of the things that surprised me was to learn that not everyone has a running dialog in their heads that are their thoughts. A lot of folks have only images or some, nothing at all until they need to think about something. It shocked me because I just assumed that people were like me. But they aren't. Not by a long shot. When you find someone that IS like you, well that's a special bond that is rare and should be treasured.

R196.. thank you for your comment. however, i'll agree to disagree with you. THESE "friends' KNEW i was struggling in life and so in my mind there is NO excuse for them to not have reached out to me and find out if i was Okay.. To me? that's common decency, character and even common sense...

so while it sucks if in the future, this happens to me yet again, i will continue to think this way about true friendship.....

i've also like many have gone thru the whole "doing all the work to keep a friendship alive" thing and then realizing that they seemingly don't care enough or are simply too self absorbed to make it 50/50, so I pass on them.. STILL shocking to me that people don't realize when one is doing all the work in a friendship and yet (and this has happened to me!) they get defensive, even angry and make deflection excuses why they dont' call, write, etc...

as the saying goes, if you care about something or someone truly you will FIND THE TIME!...

In the day of emails and texts it is amazing that people use 'too busy' as an excuse. Just accept that they didn't care or want to. It hurts like hell but you got to live with it.

Anybody who uses the phrase "crazy busy" is lying to you when they decline your invite. That's a frau cunt move.

R196 - I think R186 is either trolling or a true lost cause - I hear all his posts in a Dr Smith / Lost In Space voice. Which brings me to my real point - you mean everybody doesn’t have a running internal thought monologue? That insight stuns me because I never considered or even conceived of such a thing. How did you find this out and what else did these other people say? I’m fascinated.

Here you go, r200. It shocked the hell out of me, too. I first realized this when I said something to my hairstylist about the constant dialog in my head and she was like, "What are you talking about???" Then I started seeing the subject come up all over the internet because nope, apparently some people do NOT have thoughts in words.

And another article about it. It's trippy man.

He wasn't R176, Edward de Vere was.

R196 I didn't believe you about the inner voice so I looked it up and you are right. My inner voice never shuts up and I thought everyone was like that.

I have a mix of a verbal inner voice and a swirl of imagery.

Mine's a mix as well but mostly inner dialog. But I do find I "daydream" a lot where I envision scenarios and play them out in my head. Most of my thoughts are in the past or the future which is why mediation teaches how to live in the present moment, but man is it hard.

The “I had two friends whom I introduced to each other and they proceeded to cut me out” dynamic is very common, especially in college.

Often, the introducer friend is a bit more accomplished than the intriducee friends. So, the two dummies cut out the smarter friend.

It hurts... but then water seeks its own level.

He lied about unimportant things...but why lie? Eventually saw that I had no idea what, if anything he said, was true. Just lost respect for him and didn’t trust him after that.

I dated several abusive men that were really good at gaslighting, flipping the script, and making it seem like it was my fault when things didn’t go their way. For me once I was no longer interested in continuing the relationship, this break in my reality was like seeing someone applying wallpaper but the edges didn’t line up properly- they were just hoping people wouldn’t look too closely at their efforts.

I realized a LOT of people do this to get ahead, and have met and worked with others as well as bosses that did the same, or used some sort of open-ended puffery statement to keep underlings engaged. When I questioned why one employee got all the better, easier clients, I was told, “Everyone has a role” and I had to wait basically until that person quit to get the same treatment.

If you love someone, or love your work, you can be completely blinded or blindsided by this. Never ignore your intuition or red flags, no matter how good the sex or benefits are!

I had a friend who, although he remained under her thumb, would describe his mother, whom I never met, in ways that made her appear to be a monster. Many years into our friendship, I sensed that the apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

IMHO, you guys think about/analyze this sort of thing waaaay too much. People go in and out of your life for various reasons over the years, some justified, many not. If someone hurts you and you don't want to forgive them and/or don't need them in your life, just stop talking to them. No need to spend years ruminating over why this or that happened. There are a shitload of other people in the world -- make the effort to meet new people and make new friends!

Besides, often, it's not you -- it's them. There are a lot of people whom I knew for many years who, when they start hanging out with new people, didn't want me around anymore. Why? Not because (as many of you seem to think) "they don't like me anymore," but because I "knew them when" and they don't want the new friends to know about their somewhat shady pasts. This has happened to me more than a few times. I had to realize that not everyone is as open and honest as I and many people construct entirely new personas for their new friends and would just as soon not have anyone who knows of their past indiscretions and foibles hanging around.

Their problem, not mine. Just move on.

[quote]Reactions to COVID ( masks, lockdown, vaccines, generally caring about the safety about others) has opened my eyes as to what utter selfish shitbags some people around me are. People I previously respected and felt (platonic) love and loyalty for. I now know they aren't good, kind or trustworthy.

I completely agree with that one; at the beginning, no one really knew how all this was going to go, so it changed my attitude towards people who weren't even willing to make a small sacrifice for the greater good

R211 You know, you bring up some good points. It’s just that I think a lot of us are astonished and/or hurt when someone we cared about turned out to not be worth shit - especially if it was someone you had known for quite some time. It’s even kind of scary knowing that someone was that close to you and you find out they were nothing like you thought they were. But you are correct - dwelling on them just wastes even more time when there are new people out there to meet.

[quote]There are a lot of people whom I knew for many years who, when they start hanging out with new people, didn't want me around anymore. Why? Not because (as many of you seem to think) "they don't like me anymore," but because I "knew them when" and they don't want the new friends to know about their somewhat shady pasts.

It's also possible that one's old friend values novelty over familiarity, or discovers a new and consuming interest in common with new friends, or just plain has more fun with the new friends. Sure, it hurts for the one left behind, but just as romantic partners can grow apart, so can friends. C'est la vie.

[quote] The real value of a person is not how much he loves but how much he is loved by others.

It’s actually quite the opposite, R118.

In 2015-2016, this happened twice. A very good friend (no longer) and a family member (still) revealed they had fallen into the cult of Trump. Changed EVERYTHINGI thought I knew about them.

^^and how I feel about them since (to answer OP’s question).

Well who's not surprised this thread's devolved into Frau CUNT Central.

So many stupid cunts on this thread.

I think I am having one now about my dearest friend of over 30 years. When her husband died she almost immediately took up with a guy who is a total dick and she seems to be okay with him being that way to her friends. I called him on his shit as he was being awful about another close friend of ours. She seemed to be okay with it but I wasn't. Things were brushed under the rug as we couldn't see each other due to Covid. But things are getting back to normal and we are all vaccinated. She does call me every week or so to catch up. She told me she wouldn't have a car this weekend and I saidthat that I did, obviously offering to do something. No, nothing. She has chosen a guy who her friends, family and children dislike and I think it may be time to let it go.

That he actually wasn’t ever coming back.

R207

That isn't always the case at all. At least not with me.

I (male) had a male friend in Uni who was funny/silly/shared interests but he wasn't that bright. I was the smarter person in our duo, we both knew it and he kind of resented me for that. I never talked down to him or anything, but often he'd theorize on things as if he'd written a thesis and I'd end up wincing and saying "well....actually, I think its more that..." and correcting him. Not all the time, but when the stupid was really flowing. He was an only child, adored by Mom, so he thought he was deeply insightful and clever and that really wasn't always the case. But I liked him because we were like two kids when we hung out, talking nonsense and laughing.

I introduced him to a girl I'd known for years who was very sweet. She got his number and quickly started insisting on joining us when we'd meet up for drinks every week. Our duo became a trio. She was *always* around and it was crystal clear she wanted to bang him. She was heavy and hadn't had much sexual experience. He was getting into shape and starting to date guys and come out. I hoped he'd let her down gently or distance himself. Instead, he indulged her attention and let her spend money on him. He ate her worship up. I thought less of him for it and didn't want her made a fool of.

Long story short, they became BFFs because she treated him like a King and he ate up the attention. They never did sleep together and she did find out he was gay but she kept dangling off him in embarrassing ways. All our mutual friends were uncomfortable watching them whenever they'd appear together. She kept trying to get him drunk and kiss him, he used her as a beard and wallet and cheerleader.

Me? I watched them both turn into worse versions of themselves. She acted like I didn't appreciate him and that I wasn't cool enough for their clubbing and designer label lifestyle (which neither of them could even afford, BTW). I realized I needed to stop worrying about how he was using and misleading her. I never said anything to her about it. And even more sadly, when he was fully out and living in another city, she was still chasing him/trying to pay for him to travel to see her, etc. He told him she was being "clingy". Hmmm, wonder how that happened?

Because I introduced them, he became a more empowered moron and eventually blew up at me, Diva style, one day over nothing. Between his Beard/BFF and his mother (and his boyfriend) paying for everything and telling him how great he was, he blossomed into Mr Ego and finally felt like he had the upper hand in our relationship to talk down to me. That was the end. I waited a few days to see if he'd catch himself and apologize for screaming at me and going off but nope...we'd never acted that way with each other before. I wasn't interested in tirades becoming our new norm. I stopped talking to him. As far as I know she's still chasing him and avoiding getting her own life going.

So sometimes its the pea brains that cluster and cut you out.

Of course, they both were just incredibly insecure and feeding into their narcissism....so I wasn't too broken up about losing them/ending the friendships/being left out.

Its just hard when you think "we all started off being friendly and respectful - why did it develop this way?"

Sorry r207 - I read your post quickly and thought you were saying the opposite!

....maybe I am the dumb one then LOL

Ok, so we're on the same page. Don't pair up dumb with dumb or you get cut out.

Yes. I realized one person was a people collector. Another was a rescuer. Byeeeeeeeeeee!

I managed a surgical practice and my boss needed a patient’s X-rays from another hospital in town long before the images could be transferred electronically so I offered to go get them. After I did and started back to the office I turned a corner and saw my live-in bf of 3 years walking out the door of the hospital’s STD Clinic in the company of someone we both knew and hung out with. And he saw me as I drove down the street.

It became clear pretty quickly he was hanging out with our mutual friend in ways I wasn’t and didn’t have a clue about. I was so innocent then - I really thought we were on solid ground and couldn’t imagine then that anything or anyone could come between us. Weird, too, I thought then: him having the clap didn’t bother me as much as him fucking around.

Wisdom born of pain, I guess. I’ve learned a lot since.

R224

I'm so sorry you went through that. What have you learned and what wisdom can you impart..?

Thanks