Is Beyonce the most overrated "artiste" in music history?

yes!

So heartbreakingly true.

She's solely a product of the MSM PR Machine. To be fair, I suppose there's some singing talent there somewhere; I just don't personally care for it. But the "Greatest Singer/Dancer/Artist/Beauty Of All Time" stuff is nonsense.

Her, her husband and everyone else involved in her stardom must have carpal tunnel from all the deals they've had to sign with Satan!

Yes.

She has all those awards for one reason.

Not too shabby for an eighth grade education.

R6, she was lucky her father was Matthew Knowles and not Matthew Beergut

She's a great vocalist and is the most remembered and celebrated and famous female artist for TWO decades. Not bad at all. Lemonade is not her best album fool. It's her most culturally significant.

Beyonce has 50 or 60 great songs. Her tone doesn't please everyone, but she is probably the most gifted female vocalist of her era. She is a STAR rated A singer. The world loves Beyonce. Some old racist fags on Datalounge don't.

Big as the world - her destiny.❤️

Absolutely. A product of an incessant PR machine aided by a woke cultural climate where everyone is forced to worship her in public. Just like all the nonsense about St Viola being one of the greatest actresses of all time.

She's a good performer, but that's about it.

One of the things that irritates me the most about Beyonce's success is that there was some REAL MUSICAL TALENT working in the Black/Soul/R&B genres in the 60s, 70s, 80s & 90s that were completely ignored by mainstream Pop audiences & the powers that be. I suppose that Beyonce is their attempt to right that wrong and chuck every accolade & award her way.

That wouldn't be so bad if the bitch lived up to even some of the hype but her singing & shitty musical catalog are the definition of mediocre at best. Unlistenable at worst.

It's almost as if the whole world is hearing something other than what I am. Topics like this remind me that I'm not alone.

[quote]Her, her husband and everyone else involved in her stardom - R3

Oh, dear.

Beyonce said that she wanted to perform as well as MJ, Prince and Tina Turner. Sold out stadium tours around the world - three times over a decade... don't lie. She made it. She IS the greatest live performer of her time. And her time was not short. Nothing she can't do live. Bey shows are among the most exciting and exhilarating that you'll ever see. She's 40 years old this year and the time for these mind blowing massive assault of her talents is changing. But she knows that too. Her place in history is as great as any recording artist ever. And she's far from done. We LOVE her.

Her best song is a Gaga song.

R12, I could have written "Her husband, everyone involved in her stardom and herself" but it looked weird to me. I stand by post. Even if it's inaccurate.

Pretty faces will take you to heaven. If she looked like Tracy Chapman, only 200 people would care about her right now.

In the movie world too, good-looking directors like Sodebergh, Xavier Dolan, Francois Truffaut, etc. get a free pass from critics for making lousy movies once in a while.

Yes. I've always thought she was an overblown bitch. No real talent beyond shaking her ass.

How insightful grandma aka R17. Have a cracker! Your diaper has been changed. Rest now.

50 or 60 great songs?! LOL! i can name maybe 4.

She’s the very definition of all form and no substance.

I still have to laugh when I think of Miss Aretha Franklin at the ceremony honoring her — Beyoncé sang a Franklin favorite and Miss Aretha sat there rolling her eyes at Beyoncé’s melodramatic performance.

R14, Gaga is way more talented than Beyonce and gets maybe 1/2 the recognition. It's just the woke critics sucking up to "Queen Bey" because she's black and palatable (inoffensive). The blonde hair and bleach skin helps too.

Right R19. And she has no actual "great" songs. Just shallow nonsense love songs and such

I think The Obamas are also partly responsible for lifting her status above your run of the mill R&B/Pop Star like Ashanti & Ciara, Barrack & especially Michelle carried on as if she was some sort of royalty throughout their entire 8 years in The White House.

R20, was that after the infamous Grammy ceremony when Beyoncé referred to Tina Turner as The Queen, causing Aretha to have a hissy fit? Didn't TMZ even show a clip of some reporters asking Aretha a question about Bey and Auntie Ree replying, "Beyoncé who?"

[quote]50 or 60 great songs?! LOL! i can name maybe 4.

Who the hell said that R19?

You kneel corrected R22. She has no 'great' songs that 75 year old racist ancient white fags of DL like? You for instance. Shallow nonsense, look in the mirror. If you can stand what you see R22. SAD OLD MAN.

Beyonce has never bleached her skin R21. But you knew that. RACIST fuck.

She may be as dumb as a kindergartener but the bitch seems like she means it when she sings. Nothing inauthentic about it and she’s done (with a lot of help) some pretty amazing songs.

A triumph of marketing. She doesn’t have a shred of originality. It’s too packaged and micromanaged. Cue the nutcase fans ready to rip my head off.

R26, I'm not ancient (33 years old) and definitely not white. I'm actually *shocker* black. I just can't stand the basic bitch. There.

Name even one GREAT song Beyonce has written. I'll wait

Remember when The Obamas had her lip-sync one of Etta James' signature songs 'At Last' at their inauguration while Miss James was still very much alive & touring the world? Etta was PISSED!

Beyonce and Trump are two sides of the same coin. Wake up, sheeple, you're being manipulated and fleeced. Choose your idols carefully.

R21 ... sigh. Gaga is a flash in a very large Teflon pan.

[quote]50 or 60 great songs?! LOL! i can name maybe 4.

[quote]Who the hell said that [R19]?

R13 said it, but we probably have her on ignore.

R30, shameful. The Obamas have very pedestrian taste, I fear.

Ahhh. I actually do, R32. Now it makes sense!

Beyoncé is very skillful at butchering many great songs.

R31 at least Miss Gaga can actually write her own songs and sing them straight ahead without all the dramatics. Oh, and play several instruments

This reminds me...

I'm pretty sure this has been posted on DL at some point, but (aside from the fact that I fucking LIVE for Debra Wilson) it's both highly accurate, and completely hilarious.

She has no personality and low intelligence. A friend interviewed her and said she is an empty vessel.

She's not untalented, but she's not the mega-talent the ass-licking media has made her out to be. She's decent enough, but her songs are rather mediocre pop and her voice is meh. Few celebrities have ever had so much hype than Beyonce. To say she's not the most talented person ever is like blasphemy.

People worship celebrities and it's ridiculous.

I probably posted this boring story before but a while back on Twitter there was a discussion about greatest R&B singers. I disagreed with some saying Beyoncé was #1 and provided a few singers I think are better. All polite and non-trolling but Jesus mutherfuckin’ Christ did those Bee Hive bitches get nasty with racist shit about me based on my ironic cartoon avatar. It was unbelievable. I took a week off then blocked the fucks that were still harassing me 7 days after I posted a simple comment that I prefer other R&B singers over fucking Beyoncé. Personality cults are disturbing and growing.

Best album? The one with fake sales that’s unlistenable? THAT album. When was her last hit single?

Gaga sings like Bette Midler or Liza Minnelli. She's lounge singer with a blown out voice.

Beyonce most certainly did sing LIVE at Obama's first inaugural. We can hear all the nerves in her vocal performance. I could point them out to you. She's a good woman and a GREAT talent - who has become more powerful each year from a very successful start.

You're not black OR 33 years old R29. Must I expose you? And R32 and R34 are the same poster, talking to himself. That crazy bitch posts hundreds of times a day on DL. 80 year old FAT WHITE RACIST PIG.

Beyonce is a true QUEEN. Loved and respected around the world. She's had the greatest success of any black woman in music history. Downgrade her if you like. RACIST old FAT FaGS of Datalounge. Beyonce is something you'll never be. A good person who always works hard and tries to improve herself.

LOL. Anyone else remember The 2005 Oscars, when they actually allowed this simpleton to butcher......I mean perform EVERY SONG that was nominated that year? LOL. The first & only musical artist ever allowed to do that. So basically Beyonce was able to take credit for other artists' contributions, at least during the Oscar telecast. It was inappropriate and disgraceful. But The Academy obviously felt that she would bring in younger viewers, so they allowed her to do it.

For instance, 'Learn To Be Lonely' was Minnie Driver's only musical number in her comeback film "The Phantom Of The Opera" and she was forced to sit back and watch this idiot rip it to shreds. Counting Crows & Josh Groban also got screwed.

Looks like Chamique at r26 interrupted her busy schedule of hijacking Uber drivers to weigh in on this important issue.

I agree R39. Beyonce is fine. Talented for sure.

But the hero worship is weird. And totally unearned. I think that's what make people not like her. We're not stupid. We know she doesn't deserve the over-the-top acclaim. I mean she really only has Halo, Rule the World, Crazy in Love and Single Ladies as truly smash hit songs. Maybe one or two more that I'm forgetting. And that's not meant to be shady. Beyonce DOES have a huge career and big hits. But the goddess shit? Not earned.

Meanwhile Madonna, Whitney, Rihanna, Mariah - all of whom are much more successful than Beyonce - don't receive the untouchable status Bey does.

Again, it's weird.

Beyoncé is a very good example of the emperor's new clothes.

At best, she should be working a side room at a Vegas casino making $60k a year singing standards.

She's very modestly talented and pretty.

And, very very lucky.

Mariah Carey's songs are much better than Beyonce's.

R11 that's an insightful post. One artist who immediately comes to mind is Chaka Khan, who should've been a much bigger star in the 70s and 80s than she actually was. Listen to her catalog from back then, that woman was amazing and the songs were fierce.

Exactly R46. Beyoncé is a Queen. She's too beautiful and talented and multi faceted to seem real at times.

President and Michelle Obama, like all politicians, are masters of pragmatism for whom Beyonce served a vital public relations need.

Yes, Gaga is talented enough, R36.

R42: Make sure your crib rails are up. My goodness! Stop all your thrashing before you fall out of bed and hurt yourself.

Never forget that this hack has a single song with over 32+ writing credits, and the chorus is something stupid (sorry, I don't listen to pop, let alone this one). There's that famous meme comparing Bohemian Rhapsody from Queen which had one writer (Freddie) and some of her songs that has more than 20 to say "All the single ladies" or whatever.

If you really want to know how overrated this product of the industry really is, just ask Linda Perry. Wait, you don't have to because she has answered that on Reddit.

This laughable worship of half baked singers by some gays is something I'll never understand. One would think that men would see themselves in other men not some homely privilege church singer.

Then again I'm a rock lover so what do I know? The songs I listen to, have good lyrics and are written by actual musicians.

Nope, Beyonce is a pretty standard asshole.

R48, I'm a HUGE Chakaholic and I agree that she deserved much more commercial success. Fantasic songs and otherworldly, wildly creative belts & riffs.

But I must admit that Miss Khan did herself no favors with her involvement with drugs. I'm not even sure she ever wanted Beyonce-level success? She considers herself more of an artist/musician and she is.

I’ve never understood the hype around her or her husband. But then again I don’t understand the hype around Taylor Swift either who is also massively successful.

She is not an artist, she is a product. It takes many marketing and packaging to create a Beyonce. Beyonce is a whole team of management.

XO, All Night, Halo, If I Were a Boy, Best Thing I Never Had... she’s done a few good songs.

R42, get a life, get a brain, and stop worshipping these braindead celebrities 🙄

Macy Gray >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beyonce.

[quote] Linda, how do you feel about Beyonce changing one word on a song and getting writing credit. Does that bother you as a songwriter?

[quote] well hahaha um thats not songwriting but some of these artists believe if it wasnt for them your song would never get out there so they take a cut just because they are who they are. but everyone knows the real truth even Beyonce. She is talented but in a completely different way

I guess that “hahaha um” speaks for itself, doesn’t it?

Totally true OP. I never understood her glory. But it must be said that this generation listens to crappy music, makes crappy movies and calls it art.

Beyoncé is a beautiful woman, but apart from a couple of catchy songs she hasn't invented anything. Jer voice is nit that exceptionnal nor spectacular. She is not an artist unlike what she seems to think. She didn't invented the bodysuit she wears on stage either. Her husband is absolutely ugly (Poor Blue Ivy), and Beyoncé has the worst taste in clothes.

Bjork is an artist and a real talent one. Beyoncé is a product. A billionaire product but still.

^ Her voice is not

[quote] Taylor Swift either who is also massively successful.

Taylor actually writes her songs, she's an actual musician and I don't even listen to pop divas because it's overrated crap with the same annoying chords, but facts are facts. Beyonce is a decent performer and obviously an artist, but a very limited one, thus overrated.

R15: "She, her husband and everyone involved..." would have worked.

Beyonce's hit songs are absolutely horrendous too. Single Ladies? Run the World? Godawful tunes. I'm sorry but young kids these days have terrible taste.

Beyonce has one actually good hit song, and its Crazy in Love.

She's an amazing singer and performer. And very beautiful.

I’ve never liked her. Too cold for me.

r34 is so right. the rest needs to go the way of a fan-based funeral. and r45 and suck it. she is over.

The dead eyes there in R65 video. No "there" there

R66 Same here, her cold eyes and diva attitude makes me yawn

I think her failed soundtrack for The Lion King that nobody bought says everything we need to know about “the depth” of her talent.

Try singing from your diaphragm like this sitting down. Sound check bitches. Beyonce's voice is flying and soaring in very sophisticated time signatures and melodic grace notes. She is not underrated. She is understood by people who can SING. Amazing vocalist and so much more. If anything she should be an ever bigger STAR.

We❤️her. The world loves Beyonce.

Even Rihanna has more personality and charisma than Beyoncé. And I prefer Rihanna because she may be very rich, famous and gorgeous, she does not have that dull and cold eyes

[quote] Beyoncé is a beautiful woman

She isn't and it gets on my nerves that her equally ugly husband and child are treated like they're some royalty of beauty and style. They're ugly, all of them, please, why do you have to lie to yourself?

The worship of this woman is the biggest definition of the Emperor's new clothes I've ever seen, it's surreal.

OK, I'll give you that she isn't ugly ugly, but she's homely at best.

Janelle Monae is pretty, Beyonce looks like a Target clerk stealing her clothes from the fancy rack.

If she were any kind of a decent person she would’ve helped Michelle up rather than step over her like she was roadkill.

She also wouid’ve just laughed and taken a break when her weave got stuck in that fan. Instead she refused to pull the quick release cord on it and made her staff tweeze her out of it while she continued to sing. That wasn’t a performance. That was a huge narcissistic display.

And she has that awful song where she cruelly sings “I could have another you in a minute” - but the song goes on for over 3 mins.! It’s like, shut up then already, beyotch! Move on!

[quote] Bey shows are among the most exciting and exhilarating that you'll ever see

Have you ever been to a concert with actual musicians? It looks like you have no concept of what real music performance is like.

There are hundreds of bands that perform live shows better than this hack even Billie Eilish is better - she wrote a song at 12 with lyrics and melodies far superior than most of Beyonce's overrated catalog of songs (which again never forget, were written by +70 people.

R73, Janelle Monae is GORGEOUS.

Streisand loves Beyonce's voice. They have very similar and unique vibratos, vocal agility and long sustained perfect intonation in their phrasing. Of course Bey doesn't murder songs the way Streisand once did. But they both sometimes do a bit too much though.

When the ANCIENT white racist fags of Datalounge put on their hoods - they always say that Whitney and Beyonce have cold eyes? They never had any good black dick in them obviously - did you R72? It's not the first time you've posted that racist crap in the last 10 minutes either nigga.

Of course Beyoncé is a beautiful woman. Facts are facts. She's also a beautiful singer, technically and sonically.

According to R78 when you dislike a black artist you are racist. Understood DLers ?

R75, Irreplaceable, another godawful Beyonce song. Only people with low IQs call this tripe art.

R78 = homophobic hoodrat cunt from Lipstick Alley

(R79, even when you're praising another black artist like Rihanna.)

Speaking of Rihanna...the thing I love about Rihanna is that she just seems like a blast. She was on Seth Myers a few years ago and they did a segment where the two spent an afternoon day drinking. Here is Rihanna, one of the biggest pop stars ever, getting hammered in Brooklyn at 3pm.

She was utterly charming. Totally shady. Gorgeous. Stylish.

She might not have a great voice, but she's just the best. And her songs are catchy as hell.

R82 Totally agree with you. Rihanna remained human. And she is funny too.

Matthew Knowles, like Joe Jackson before him, molded his creation at the expense of her childhood. We may never know the full story hidden behind the spanish moss, but horror stories and fairy tales are cut from the same cloth. Ask Michael.

The ironic thing is that Beyonce is so much like the character she plays in Dream Girls

Very busy thread and weird time of day / night to be fussing about Beyoncé. How strange.

How anyone would know anything about her literacy is Beyond me ;) but I suppose le triggered will do strange things.

One of my favorites.

[quote] And yet this woman has a staggering 24 Grammys and 800 awards in total.

With some notable exceptions, Grammys generally award commercial successes and not musical prowess or artistry. Male artists fare better than female artists do with these awards, but a few stats show that transactions > fine arts with the Recording Academy:

Kate Bush, roundly appreciated as one of the most influential musicians of her generation, has been nominated for three Grammys—including none for her most celebrated album, Hounds of Love—and has won zero Grammys.

Tori Amos, the youngest person ever admitted to the Peabody Conservatory of Music at age 5 for being a piano virtuoso, has been nominated for 8 Grammys and has won zero.

Meanwhile, Britney Spears, who is a product of the music industry who has sold well but who doesn't write or play music and whose voice is largely engineered, has also been nominated for 8 Grammys and has won one.

Fiona Apple is a very rare exception as an artist whose every album is declared a work of genius by music critics but don't move huge numbers of records. She has been nominated for 11 Grammys and has won three.

Taylor Swift sells more than anyone and she has been nominated for 41 Grammys and has won 11. It's up to you to decide whether Taylor Swift is a better musical artist than Kate Bush, Tori Amos and Fiona Apple, but I'd say she's earned the awards with popularity and sales more than musicianship or profound songwriting.

R88 You forgot Bjørk, the Queen.

I've been telling you that for years, R38!

R89 15 nominations, zero wins.

Whatever one might feel about the vocal abilities of Diana Ross, it is still a joke that she doesn't have a single competitive Grammy win to her name while the vapid idiot Beyonce has 24. Beyonce has more Grammy wins than even Aretha Franklin now? WTFF?

R88, the Grammys are such a joke that they aren't even hiding how meaningless they are anymore. Jay Z & Beyonce's daughter, Blue Ivy won her first Grammy for absolutely nothing other than being Jay Z & Beyonce's daughter at the last ceremony.

The worst thing about her isn't her songs...it's her VOICE. It's VERY weak.

no because most of her career in the 2010s coincided with an age where a vast majority of Americans had no exposure to her. She's music's first post celebrity superstar.

The birth of Sasha Fierce is this song and the little freakum dress. How'd they do all that on that little stage? Amazing Bey.

r30, I remember that at the time, I couldn't believe it, I believe Ms James was even in the audience - it should never have happened, such an insult, and completely tone deaf.

I hope r15 is not one of the posters trashing Beyonce's intelligence and lack of education. Clearly, he didn't make it much past fourth grade himself.

Beyoncé is a decent show-woman, someone here explained to me she is like black Barbie, she puts on a good show. You don't have to put her up there with the greats, the originators, but she does what she does well.

Beyoncé is mentally slow. She speaks like a 2nd grader and has been challenged in acting (and presenting) situations as a result of her mentation deficits.

Her music is similarly limited.

She is shallow and her output reflects this.

R100 Beyoncé is from Houston and she speaks with a normal Texas drawl with a black American dialect, which is a dialect and not a sign of diminished intelligence.

I liked Destiny's Child's music and haven't really found her music engaging since she went solo, but uninteresting music and an accent are not justification for bigoted assumptions about her intellectual capacity. Fuck.

I’m not the biggest fan but some parts of the Netflix concert were breathtaking. And she does have a great back catalogue…Partition, Mine, All Night, all great tracks wether she wrote them or not doesn’t matter much to me.

R8 is obviously insane.

Beyoncé is a friend of Meghan Markle, an indication of mental deficiency.

I love the Got2BeReal description of this overrated bimbo. BeOnYourWayToJailForPlagiarizinCe.

Hateretha from Got2BeReal would have made a great DL member. Irreverent and bitchy as hell and didn't give a fuck what anyone thought.

She’s 39 and already irrelevant. I noticed she looks kinda old and fat lately.

And don't forget, R75, this is the song where this genius songwriter rhymes "minute" with "minute".

Admiring Beyonce was a way for white people to feel supportive of black artists and cool. But now that we know Beyonce is a racist herself (offering to bail out members of the terrorist BLM group), she’s done. Bye, black Barbie. You were never more than a glorified mediocrity.

Michael Jackson was. Also Bruce Springsteen. But Beyoncé is certainly up there with Paul Simon.

Beyonce invented the word "bootylicious."

She's no Etta James!

There’s a YouTube video of a Beyoncé stan boasting about how she pushed a little boy down the stairs at her concert because he “was in my WAY”. She said that it was merely proof of how much she revered Bey.

Enough.

Unfortunately I can see that the racists are here too. Not everyone who dislikes Beyoncé is a racist white person.

[quote]I hope [R15] is not one of the posters trashing Beyonce's intelligence and lack of education. Clearly, he didn't make it much past fourth grade himself.

Sad isn't it, R98, and to think that another three commenters endorsed R-15's arrogant display of ignorance. Dumb as a hank of secondhand hair, just like their idol.

Unplug the buds and pick up a book. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

R30- That dress is so unfortunate.

Supporting Beyonce to the frenzied pitch that so many people do is a bit understandable, as saying you do allows you to check so many boxes on the Concerned Intersectional Citizen application. She's definitely benefitted from & exploited particular social movements that have overtaken social media & branding over these past few years. Expressing hyper support for this woman suggests to those concerned that you're on top of all these trends without question & on the terms proposed, even if you have no idea what you're actually standing up for. What I don't like is that wavering from the idea that Beyonce Is God automatically gets you branded as racist by too many people, which is ridiculous & weak because in reality Beyonce is one note. Her songs largely sound alike, you know what she's going to say before she opens her mouth, she knows that the poor-rich-me-I'm-just-like-you schtick sells to people who are nothing like her at all, but she always has great choreography. I knew she was around to stay when Mariah Carey so blatantly copped her look for the cover of Emancipation Of Mimi.

The Beyhive makes me look in control!

It frightens me that they’re so serious. This is not satire.

Not as long as Janet Jackson walks the earth!

[quote]We❤️her. The world loves Beyonce.

She's not a massive international star, especially outside the Anglosphere.

She ghetto.

She has a low IQ. You can tell just by watching her speak. That she can't make serious art is natural - it would be weird if she could. I don't even think she can make good "party" music by herself, without a team of writers and producers by her side.

She just works hard. It’s obvious that she practices a lot. And no, she doesn’t come across as a mental heavyweight...few entertainers do.

She's the best. Many of us know this. There will always be delusional haters. There's like a million hours of footage of her singing live out there, solo, with others, concerts, award shows, tv shows, etc etc. Like, there's just so much evidence of how good she is, and some people will still say "hmmmm not sure if she can really sing though...."

Of course this thread is filled with the usual misogynistic bullshit, so I'm not surprised. "A man made her everything she is".

Literally, just watch "Homecoming". That's her artistic vision. She made all of that. The choreography, direction, new arrangements of songs, having that full band and the HBCU theme. She put it all together.

Some of y'all just can't give a woman credit for something that good.

Why does everyone have to like her r124? Aren’t there entertainers who you dislike?

Beyoncé as part of a group or as a feature on a song is great, her solo stuff is just one big turd after another

[quote]Some of y'all just can't give a woman credit for something that good.

Please. We hate on Bieber, the Jonas monkeys and Mendes regularly, among others. I wouldn't say we're really hating on Beyonce, just looking at her objectively.

R127 “Jonas monkeys” made me laugh!

I don't get these singers who wear tops, but bottoms like a bathing suit. Like, wear a skirt or pants. It looks stupid.

R122 Singers don’t need to be smart. No one cares about their intellect. All that matters is the voice!

The thing with some R&B and many rap songs is that more often than not what really stands out in their songs, the so-called catchy part of it is usually a sample from an actual good song written by someone else, just like Crazy in Love, the only good thing about this song is the sample from The Chi-Lites song the lyrics are stupid as are most stuff this woman puts out.

No, Britney Spears is still way overrated. At least Beyonce has been putting in real effort for over 20 years. Op may not like or get her music but it connects with a ton of people and she can actually sing. Meanwhile, Britney sits in her mansion drugged up as hell but still people sing her praises as if she's put out anything relevant since 2009.

Beyonce is the only surviver from her era still relevant now with cross-over generational appeal. This is why she gets so much praise, her peers got lazy and dropped off the face of the Earth. People like a strong and consistent work ethic. Again, her music isn't to everyone's taste but Beyonce doesn't complain, explain, or do anything to cause problems, that's one of the reasons I like her. She shows up, gives her shows, then goes home.

Beyonce makes white people feel good about themselves for worshipping a black (very light-skinned and bleached blonde) woman. And I guess she has a very aggressive PR team (the same as Taylor Swift by any chance?).

[quote] I liked Destiny's Child's music and haven't really found her music engaging since she went solo, but uninteresting music and an accent are not justification for bigoted assumptions about her intellectual capacity. Fuck.

All it takes is watching an interview with her, she is dim, probably savvy and business smart and she probably wouldn't understand the expression business acumen, but she's done something right. I think people take issue with the overrated aspect of her.

[quote] Beyonce is the only surviver from her era still relevant now with cross-over generational appeal.

Is she? When was the last time a Beyonce song was a hit? 2005? Not even her woke album was a hit. Beyonce owes her longevity to a very expensive PR machine and a dictatorship in shobiz. People hate the Knowles but are afraid of them, this is the reality at least in the Film and TV industry, I suspect the same is true with the music industry.

R124, but a man DID make her who she is. Without Matthew Knowles, Beyonce would be working at the local strip mall in Houston.

[quote] Beyonce owes her longevity to a very expensive PR machine and a dictatorship in shobiz. People hate the Knowles but are afraid of them, this is the reality at least in the Film and TV industry, I suspect the same is true with the music industry.

Everybody eventually loses their hold over the media as time goes on and people age out of relevance. It happened to Madonna, Frank Sinatra etc. I wonder what Beyonce's true legacy will be when she's older and doesn't have the same kind of power and connections.

Again, its so hard to qualify Beyonce's art because the only people exposed to it are the ones who actively seek it out. Which means they enjoy it or are moved by it. Reminds me of how people in the 80s who didn't like Madonna must have really been irritated because she was all over the place and you couldn't avoid her bullshit. With Beyonce, you have to go looking for it. Just a sign of changing media times.

Beyoncé has much more control and power than Madonna ever did, probably even MJ, because she belongs to the zeitgeist of woke culture, and I don't mean this in a negative way, she is a byproduct of a time where people were giving attention to blacks in a way we never saw before, even with the Motown geniuses of the past.

Her overrated nature has a lot to do with that, and it's not even exclusive of her. Terrible shows, terrible films (Wrinkle in Time anyone?) being fake-praised by critics because you can't criticize a black artist without sounding racist is also part of her success.

There's a reason she couldn't make it with Destiny's Child back in the day, she'd be massacred by her lack of originality and mediocre music. You can have the best voice in the world, if what you sing is crap....

it's clear she made Lemonade to be praised, which she was, but mostly by critics. No one else cared.

[quote] She has a low IQ. You can tell just by watching her speak. That she can't make serious art is natural - it would be weird if she could. I don't even think she can make good "party" music by herself, without a team of writers and producers by her side.

If you really think about it, that's what Linda Perry was saying between the lines.

[quote] Singers don’t need to be smart. No one cares about their intellect. All that matters is the voice!

Maybe if you're as dim as the artist. Most people who hate on her, hate her because her music is mediocre, her lyrics childish and cliche and she still needs 30 people to write that. A song is more than the voice singing it.

I seriously think that some artists write down their songs for her, as to sound as basic as she is.

All style and little else. Why do people worship her?

Beyonce's "art"?

I don't think she's as overrated as Led Zeppelin, who stole all their most famous melodies nor is she as overrated as the Smiths.

I was thinking if there were any Beyoncé songs I'd like and Irreplaceable caught my attention. I wasn't surprised to found out it was written by actual songwriters, 5 men as a country song. It makes much more sense than the version with Beyonce, but i'll give you that this song at least isn't irritating.

Now I understand why she says to the left to the left, its referencing line dancing and the position men and women have on the floor. Very interesting.

She already peaked anyway. Her latest singles/albums all underperformed.

R143 damns with faint praise

[quote]she is a byproduct of a time where people were giving attention to blacks in a way we never saw before, even with the Motown geniuses of the past. R138

Child, Please! James Brown co-wrote and performed an international anthem for all times with "Say it Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud." Ever hear of Stevie Wonder? Marvin Gaye? Billie Holiday before them with the haunting "Strange Fruit?" Go to school, son. And that's just in the popular music realm. Marian Anderson, Mahalia Jackson...I could write a book! Would Beyonce and you care to take a swing at surpassing the great influencers of literature? Sports? Film? Theatre? Fine Arts?

The most insignificant Black artists of the 19th and 20th centuries cast a longer shadow of influence and possessed more talent in their little fingers than that rag, bone and hank of hair called Beyonce holds in her entire entourage.

She's not even the most talented member of her family.

r88 You forgot Joanna Newsom, who's definitely better than Fiona Apple and Tori Amos and is arguably the great lyricist alive, yet has never been nominated for a single Grammy.

r8 need to take her meds

I wish I could care to respond to the pedantic post by R147, but since Mrs Prissy can't even interpret what was said, why bother?

Yes, this is a singular time in history for black people in America, something never seen before, unless you consider the failing of the Black Panthers as a victory, some do, Angela Davis is still around isn't she?

I've already said all I wanted to. No time in history had Black Americans in the spotlight and with this much political power, not even during MLK. It's a completely new zeitgeist. The point was that, that a mediocre artist like her is the most successful today, because she's riding the wave of Black acceptance and change and no one will challenge that, because they're afraid of being considered racists. the end.

So fuck you and your navel gazing petulance and go listen to this garbage if you will.

r13 Why don't you list the other performers Bey beat out for that title?

Because I don't give a shit about this. Now go back to your black history 101 Zoom class and your echo chamber and leave us alone.

DL Milo clones hate her because she's black

That's why they'll pretend she's worse than Bieber et al.

The reason she could last as long has she has is because the music industry changed. It's been Beyonce and Rihanna for the most part with Gaga, Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift and very few other headliners that can pull in the money as solo act needs to. They are basically state approved acts that get to dominate, with no or little effort put toward finding new exciting talent. This assures that those who are making money will keep making money. We keep getting reboots in tv and film because it's certain money, well keeping one act for decades and making no effort to replace her keeps the money in the hands of the same people. Beyonce had no competition because the industry wanted it that way.

Before the music industry collapsed itself you had a number of name acts some bigger than others but there was a variety of names in every genre. It's easy to stay on top when the industry never lets anyone in to challenge you.

R148: Guffaw!! Even Tina designed and sewed those little DC outfits.

R151: You need to be quiet and stop embarrassing yourself; your rant is illogical. Assuming you are Black, schedule a talk with your parents and grandparents to learn about our people's history.

Oh, and Josephine Baker it first, and in two languages. Your turn, Bouncy.

Beyoncé is talented singer. I personally don’t care for her voice. However, she is a talented singer and dancer. She’s a pop artist who makes music that people enjoy. Because of that she achieved tremendous success. She has millions of fans and she has sold millions of records.

It doesn’t cost me anything to admit that artist who don’t appeal to me are talented and deserve their success. Dataloungers have the habit of proclaiming that anyone who they don’t like is not talented. Beyoncé does not make music for 65 yr olds. Young people drive pop music. Your parents hated the shit that you loved. Pop music doesn’t need to be brilliant and most entertainers don’t have post secondary educations. Most Americans don’t have post secondary educations. Most people struggle with public speaking.

The only thing that Datalounge hates more than black people is successful black people. Black success is always questioned by Datalounge and black people are always deemed unworthy.

^editing, Josephine Baker did it first...

donalds-worst-nightmare

more like everybody's worst nightmare

Op = Klan Granny

R159: I am the hope and the dream of the slave, as are you.

Peace.

R30, that wasn't a lipsynch.

Not a great rendition, and certainly inferior to Etta's, but B did sing that.

Beyoncé is an example of what great discipline will allow a reasonably talented singer to achieve. She doesn't have the best voice, but she has worked extremely hard to develop a very good technique that allows her to do some very impressive things, and that is why none of her contemporaries measure up to her. Even someone with a spectacular voice but faulty technique like Jennifer Hudson, cannot touch her.

She is admired because she is the only mainstream singer of this generation whose technical skills are excellent - she doesn't scream and growl to mask a small voice, as Christina Aguilera does; she isn't incompetent like Rihanna/Katy Perry/Britney/Ciara/etc; she isn't an inconsistent mess like Ariana Grande and she has a good understanding of what putting on a show does entail.

However, she is nowhere near great. If she were competing with the likes of Whitney, Mariah when she actually had a voice, Patti LaBelle, Aretha, Ledisi, Taylor Dayne, Natalie Cole, Lara Fabian, Lisa Fischer, Vanessa Amorosi and a myriad of other EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD singers, she would be considered what she has been all along: a merely serviceable singer with a voice that is just one or two steps above average.

What has undeservedly turned Beyoncé into a legend is that her contemporaries are nowhere near as hard working as she is (which affects their technical proficiency), most of them can't even reach the lower end of mediocrity, and extremely aggressive marketing campaigns that have portrayed her as a timeless diva. The rest is just self-delusion on the part of her fans.

She’s a jack of many trades, master of none. Her greatest talent is listening to her gigantic creative team and following the lead of what the higher ups want from her. That’s why she’s “untouchable” at the moment, she never opens her mouth and is completely inoffensive. She looks like a white woman with slightly tan skin, so she doesn’t scare any white executives. Lady Gaga has a much better/more versatile voice, Ariana has a way bigger range, Adele and Rihanna have much better timbre. Ciara, Shakira (and Britney in her prime) are worlds better dancers, Doja Cat is already on par dance wise. Rihanna, Gaga, and Shakira have more charisma. She has bad taste and is not a style icon like Rihanna, she’s not even as rich as Rihanna. She’s not incredibly famous on a global scale compared to Gaga, Rih, Taylor, Shakira or Madonna. She can’t write, she can only sing one way, except for her latest releases in which she insists on trying out this awful croaky talk/rap/singing that reallllly doesn’t suit her. She truly is the emperor with no clothes. Her and the people around her must’ve made the most incredible media connections, because the adoration from publications does not line up with her actual relevance to anyone not in her fanbase.

[quote]Dataloungers have the habit of proclaiming that anyone who they don’t like is not talented. Beyoncé does not make music for 65 yr olds. Young people drive pop music.

I, and I'm sure many posters here, are in the same age group as Beyonce. She's of our own generation and she's always been just ok with us, but not the greatest genius of all time that she's hyped to be. They amount of overpraise she's received is ridiculous.

BTW, Beyonce isn't a young person.

I really like what I've heard from Doja Cat so far. I would never say she's a great talent, but her songs are really fun and catchy.

[quote] Her and the people around her must’ve made the most incredible media connections, because the adoration from publications does not line up with her actual relevance to anyone not in her fanbase.

This, definitely! Beyonce has had more media hype and the media putting her on a pedestal than nearly any other performer. She's not as massively popular with a diverse demographic of the public as her hype would lead you to believe. Outside of her core stans, she's not wildly popular. Whitney Houston, to give just one example, was a true superstar with a hugely diverse fanbase.

Y'all are anti-black!

Y'all just don't like black people!

She doesn't make music for white people!

She is the greatest entertainer alive, especially when she wears stupid ponytails.

This worship is so funny, it's like a cult. The topic here is whether she's overrated, which she is, also mediocre and cliche. Nothing new here, pop music has had mediocre talent making money since forever.

I compare the supposed adoration of Bey on par with Hagdonna. I dont know who writes or believes all that legendary shit spouted about them ,but they both are just average singers that had a few catchy songs. Both manufactured,both boring as hell. I agree with a poster upthread,Solange is a much better singer than Bey.

She reminds me of Tony Polar from Valley of the Dolls

Right, Madonna had "a few" catchy songs. Yup.

Madonna had many amazing songs that are now classics. She was also a great shit-stirrer and generally quite interesting at her peak. That's all gone now, but god was she something else back in the day.

R134 She had a hit with Black Parade within the last year. Very catchy but very racist lyrics. As usual, it was written by a committee of 5-6 people.

I see that "King" from LSA is back again. He is such a pussy. Glad I have that psycho and the rest of the LSA whores blocked. What a homophobic heterosexual male like him is doing on DL I'll never know.

Anyways, Beyonce is okay. Nothing really special about her. Great singer but nothing extraordinary.

Who is King?

R176 That's what he calls himself. He's delusional. He's a homophobic male poster from LSA who goes around calling people who disagree with him "ancient racist white fags" and "pedophiles."

He goes on and on about how extraordinary Beyonce and Zendaya are.

Is she that girl that faked her pregnancy on TV and then kicked real pregnant women out of the maternity ward? If that's her, I don't like her.

I still crack up when I think back to how she basically named one of her albums "Bidet". 😂 I think that was one of the albums that had all the songs with accompanying videos, and when you see what she was doing, it basically boils down to: "I want to do Robert Palmer. Now I want to do Rich Man's Frug..." etc. Which would be ok if she actually did an interesting interpretation, or that wasn't the only thing she did.

I agree with R148. I don't know much about Solange, but I remember liking "Don't Touch My Hair" more than any Beyoncé song I have ever heard.

Loved her winning over a hostile country crowd at the CMA awards.

Those who bash Beyoncé are usually jealous Gaga fans. Gaga has had more flops over the past 10 years than any in her peer group. She got lucky due to Bradley Cooper then Ariana saved her album which is forgotten now. She can’t get hits on her own. Well, hits that don’t debut high then fall like a rock the next week.

"Jealous Gaga fans" That's funny. What kind of basic bitch are you? It's not bashing Beyonce, just an objective analysis of her. Few have been more hyped and lavished with praise when they're not really all that. You'd think she was as talented as Aretha the way the ass-licking media has always carried on about her.

R182 Gaga is also overhyped, not that talented and shoved down our throats. Now she was raped AGAIN. What a joke. At least Beyoncé isn’t always in your face like Gaga. Beyoncé is overrated but she is superior to Gaga in every way.

[quote]Christ did those Bee Hive bitches get nasty with racist shit about me based on my ironic cartoon avatar. It was unbelievable. I took a week off then blocked the fucks that were still harassing me 7 days after I posted a simple comment that I prefer other R&B singers over fucking Beyoncé. Personality cults are disturbing and growing.

Let's keep it real here, the Bey Hive has told Beyonce to shut up before.

They're not like like "Gaga's Little Monsters," they will come for Beyonce in a flash.

I'm not a Stan but you can't watch her Coachella film and not think she is a great performer...Who cares she doesn't write all her songs....Linda Ronstadt make the hall of fame doing covers

R185, Agreed.

Is she a great songwriter? No. Is she a great "artiste?" Not really. Is she a great singer? She is good. She's not Celine Dion but she's better than Toni Braxton and tons of other people. She's no Mariah or Whitney. However, she's solid.

Is she one of the greatest performers in the world? Yes. She's not overrated there. She and her team know how to put on a show. She also has a catalogue of songs that most people are guaranteed to know at least a couple of.

R164 just gave the most reasonable and accurate synopsis.

She sure in the hell is not better than Toni Braxton, bad comparison there.

R183, Beyonce wishes she had Gaga's talent. Gaga is a better singer, songwriter, actress, and musician overall. Try again.

I love threads on BEYAWNCE!!

Its interesting to read everyone's opinions of her. Think people need to separate her vocal abilities from her talent as a show-woman.

Beyonce IS the consummate show-woman. There is NO ONE out there who can come close her stage presence and ability, at this point in time. Only Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson and Madonna, at the height of their careers, had the same ability to fully mesmerize and capture people's attention on a stage. Beyonce owns her stage like no one else.

Her vocal talent is another story. She is technically capable, but she lacks true soul and feeling in her voice. She rarely sings with any conviction about what she's singing. It is all technical for her.

In the 2000s when she was still an R&B artist, there was no one with sex appeal like Beyonce. She came out of left field from Destiny's Child and took everything to the next level. If you were a follower of black music at this time, you know how many R&B girls got cancelled when Beyonce hit the scene as a solo artist. She was the best thing since sliced bread, her music was like an awakening. Numerous women told they could not compete with her so they got dropped. She totally raised the bar for everyone.

[quote]She sure in the hell is not better than Toni Braxton,

I'm sorry I offended one of your fellow Drag Queens.

Her voice isn't any better or worse than a lot of other singers past and present, I've just never liked much of her catalog. It's kind of "meh" with only a few exceptions. I just find most of her stuff kind of boring. And yes she's a great live (well, she lip syncs) performer but there's always been a "put together by committee" thing going on with her. Nothing organic or naturally creative that comes from within. That's something that turns off a lot of people, imho. It's like there's no "there" there, she just does what she's told and wears what she's given to wear.

r192 I agree. Her solo catalog as a whole is probably the weakest of all the A-list music artists. But she makes up for it by being the best performer. Maybe one of her stans can correct me, but Beyonce has never been one for being in the music studio. I think that's why her songs are just ok, she not one of those artists who lives in the studio writing 100 songs. She leaves that to other people.

[quote]nasty with racist shit about me based on my ironic cartoon avatar

I don't believe for a second that you had a harmless avatar that people unfairly called you out about. Post it and let's see what kind of irony you're talking about.

[quote]a mediocre artist like her is the most successful today, because she's riding the wave of Black acceptance and change and no one will challenge that, because they're afraid of being considered racists

This is incredibly racist. Or should I say incredibly "racists" so you understand it?

IMO, musically, Destiny's Child was better and, musically, Solange is better.

But, I don't think she's "overrated." What does that even mean? People just use it as shorthand for "I get the feeling not enough people feel exactly about her as I do. "

Lady Gaga and Beyonce are both awful.

Lady Gaga at her peak was 10x more interesting than Lady Gaga now. The more public she is, the less interesting and more predictable she gets.

Lady Gaga was on fire in the beginning, she was fantastic. She seemed to lose the plot quickly, though.

R199, what made Gaga interesting at first was the mystery around her. We really didn't know much about her. Then, the "little monsters" thing started plus the whole "you should love who you are!" mantra repeated over and over again and then Born this Way really killled whatever momentum she had. The title track was huge but the rest of the songs didn't do nearly as well. And then Art Pop made it official--the public was sick of her. It wasn't until A Star is Born that she relaly came back.

Pop music was so boring when Gaga first hit, so she caused quite a stir. Yes, Born This Way killed her momentum. It wasn't on par with her earlier work.

[quote]a mediocre artist like her is the most successful today, because she's riding the wave of Black acceptance and change and no one will challenge that, because they're afraid of being considered racists

r151 there are plenty of mediocre talents who become wildly successful, that is nothing new in the music industry and race has nothing to do with it. Look at Taylor Swift. The fact that you default to race makes people think you are racist. If a bitch is mediocre, she's mediocre.

And you don't sound familiar with Beyonce's career, or music of the 2000s for that matter. You are about 20 years late. Beyonce's peers are Justin, Christina, and Britney, they all came along way before any of this current movement of black acceptance, or whatever you feel it is. Beyonce was mainly a product of the girl group era of late 90s.

Beyonce was also was panned by the black community itself after her dad fired half of Destiny's Child. She was vilified for being light-skinned, privileged and trying look like a white woman for years. A lot of black girls thought she was too bougie. It wasn't until the R&B genre died off that black people really embraced her. She was one the few remnants of R&B left and black people really had no choice because everyone else had fallen off.

Never got Beyonce. Never will.

Considering the drivel she sings, those pipes must be pretty good at deepthroating too.

The last time I found Beyonce genuinely interesting was her "I am... Sasha Fierce" album. Single Ladies was a very unique song and the music video, the leotard and the heels, the Black&White cinematography and the choreography, all were "fierce" should I say. Other songs like Ego, If I were a boy, Broken Hearted Girl, Sweet Dreams, Halo were all solid tracks. But then everything she's done since has been one a downward curve to me. That Telephone shit she did with Gaga was a major cringe. She's been riding the hype train of being a distinguished performer. That's it. Vocally, lyrically, musically, there's not much to write home about. Very manufactured except on stage where she does shine. I'll give her that. Otherwise, her royalty is really expert marketing. Remember her self-titled album releasing out of the blue without much publicity? That marketing stunt was discussed more in the media than the contents of the album itself.

[quote]Anyone else remember The 2005 Oscars, when they actually allowed this simpleton to butcher......I mean perform EVERY SONG that was nominated that year? LOL. The first & only musical artist ever allowed to do that. So basically Beyonce was able to take credit for other artists' contributions, at least during the Oscar telecast. It was inappropriate and disgraceful. But The Academy obviously felt that she would bring in younger viewers, so they allowed her to do it.

That is absolutely horrible. I was not aware of this taking place.

That happened as far back as 2005? Jesus. And that was before she was pronounced as "queen of the universe" by the behive.

Wait, I must've missed this at the time... so every song that was nominated at 2005's Oscars was given a rendition by Beyoncé on the night? Weird!

Yes, R208. Here's another selection from the sole musical artist that evening. Sung in French! LOL

Forgot the link. Here you go R208.

Hahahaha! OMG, this is making me laugh so much. It's like that MadTV sketch come to life.

Beyoncé's going to do ALL the songs! ALL the singing!

LOL @ R211. It was unreal! I think she had finally hit solo with 'Crazy In Love' and was pushing her weight around. Or at least her handlers were.

Love or hate Gaga, at least she's fun to, you know, love or hate. Rihanna is a hot ass bitch on wheels who seems in on the joke. Taylor is shady is as fuck. Adele is "of the people" and really leans into that.

Beyonce's just too boring and safe.

All five are the huge megastars of their given era, but only Beyonce is dull.

[quote]That happened as far back as 2005? Jesus

[quote]That is absolutely horrible. I was not aware of this taking place.

Whew gurl, this is how I know you all are old and dont really have credibility to discuss music during this time period.

Beyonce was being pushed EVERYWHERE, her dad was not joking around. Like I said at this time the music industry felt that Beyonce was practically the second coming of Jesus, or Michael Jackson. The was the year after she performed with Prince at the Grammys and everyone wanted a piece. She told Oprah years later that this performance was difficult because her high heel fell off under this gown and almost ruined the whole thing.

Gaga is boring and try hard. She’s failed far more than she’s been successful. Plus she’s fug.

Maybe R215, but that's what makes her interesting. She's talented enough to fail, get back up, fail again. She's a bit like Cher in that respect.

Are people on this thread really saying Taylor Swift is better than Beyonce? 😂 come on!!! There's a lot of exaggerating here. Anyways, I don't like Beyonce because of her being as Simone de Beauvoir would say a "Grande Dame". She is the image of the perfect black woman: she isn't controversial, in fact she goes out of her way to be very boring by sacrificing her individuality (if she has one) and marries a rich black man who cheats on her and STILL stays with him like a good black woman who endures and stays by her man(yuck!). I hate the simple bitches of this world, and I hate her especially for not challenging anything by divorcing her husband and stop censoring herself. She will never be remembered like she desperately wants to because history doesn't care for banal women unless you're Eva Braun.

[quote] Like I said at this time the music industry felt that Beyonce was practically the second coming of Jesus, or Michael Jackson.

That's really delusional and explains why many of us just laugh at her and her fans. Beyonce has never sold anywhere near what Mariah, Celine, Madonna or Whitney were selling with their peak albums. For someone to be pushed THAT much without the sales to back it up is pretty ridiculous.

Well r218, Beyonce was way sexier than any of those women you just mentioned. Maybe the industry was being led with their dicks

This low iq woman is getting uglier and fatter by days. She’s not even 40 but already looks like a hag. Yuck

Here she was at the 2021 Grammys 🤢

She's a Victoria's Secret knock-off model who moonlights as a backup singer who has Jay-Z money funneling her career and people bought the illusion that she is actually interesting and deserving of her level of acclaim

R219, probably.

And to think some think she's equal to Tina Turner, what blasphemy. Not even close on her best day. What is Beyonce's real age? More MSM lies.

She is nowhere near the talent and fabulousness of Miss Tina Turner.

Now if you want to talk about a genuine organic talent and someone whose creativity came from her soul, THAT would be Tina Turner. She's the real thing.

NEVER. GETS. OLD.

Why does care if anyone hates this shitty "artist?"

(Yes, IS the Ancient White FAGS Troll here).

Never mind about Beyonce...how do we stop the fucking Beyhive? They're terrible human beings.

R228, they dominate twitter. Being part of the "Beyhive" seems to be associated with being a histrionic far-leftist.

She's very overrated by the media and her mentally ill fans. Her image is one that is very manufactured by a highly skilled PR team. She never really shows her true self anymore. However, where Beyoncé shines is that she generally is very hard-working and improved vocally and performance wise. When she started out in Destiny's Child, she had a very grating and loud church choir girl voice with no control and was clearly trying hard to outstage the other bandmates. However, she matured and her voice became better with each album (at least until Everything is Love). Sasha Fierce and 4 had some of her best vocals. She isn't a dynamic singer though and is very lacking in soul and emotion though she can sound beautiful on certain songs like "Halo" and "Rather Die Young". She's a good pop ballad singer.

A lot of her popularity comes from her brand and use of visual albums. She's all smoke-and-mirrors and portrays herself an ideal "superwoman" type but tries to be relatable too. Strong but feminine, proudly black but also not too black looking, sophisticated and classy but also ghetto and ratchet, a down-to-earth mother but still keeps her awesome figure, had a cheating husband but still forgives him and has him reform his ways, etc. It's all a narrative and very calculated and it's how she got a far-reaching appeal. She doesn't sell that much anymore honestly but she managed to gain a massive fandom that supports her enough and are interested in what she does. She's still an empty vessel that her fans can project a personality onto despite all the storylines her team create about her.

Despite this, Beyonce has really been devaluing the brand she worked hard for with her recent songs. She doesn't fit trap music and she needs to stop with the king and queen imagery with Jay-Z. She is seriously entering Madonna/Janet/Mariah territory with trying to stay young and relevant in middle age and she's starting to go overboard with the plastic surgery. She will have legacy because she has hit songs but she won't be remembered as a groundbreaking artist simply because she isn't one. She's an icon for the time but nowhere near a legend.

4 was her artistic peak IMHO. Her most acclaimed works, Beyoncé and Lemonade aren't aging that well.

I'm going to confess something truly shocking. I don't think I've ever heard Beyonce, Rhianna or Ariana Grande sing. I've heard Lady GaGa and Adele a few times. I was disappointed by both. I'd heard so much about what a fantastic voice Adele had, but she left me cold, and if GaGa had just used her voice, and not done all of the costume stunts, I'd like her better.

I'm just not into pop music anymore. I listen to all kinds of music, classical, jazz, blues, and recently I've been listening to Spanish guitar music.

Rihanna who ironically was chosen and modeled to be a clone of Beyoncé by the music industry ended up outperforming Bey in sales. A lot of that has to do with the fact Rihanna took control of her career with Rated R and chose to pursue an pure dance and electronic sound with some callbacks to her Caribbean roots. She reinvented herself with each album and seemed very passionate about each era too. She's naturally very fashionable. Rihanna isn't a good singer but she had "it factor" and a good ear for music. Rihanna's voice is limited but it's distinctive and she knows how to interpret songs and has rawness and emotion in her voice. Rihanna is open about her fuck-ups and nonchalant about her drug use and sex life too.

This youtube channel allows you to visually see an artist's chart performance over the years. Destiny's Child had big hits pretty much out the gate in 1997. Beyonce's first solo album in 2003 was a blockbuster. After that, the charts weren't as kind to her. She basically released a lot of singles at once and just went with whatever caught on. Not surprising that she started the trend of the surprise album.

I remember her being huge from 2003 to 2009. Crazy In Love was the song of 2003. After I Am Sasha Fierce, she really fell off but her fanbase started getting fanatic around this time once social media took off. Keri Hilson was one of the first casualties of the Beyhive when she started insulting Beyoncé publicly.

R233 that was really interesting. Made me realize that a bunch of big songs I've always assumed were Bey's from the mid 00s were actually Destiny's Child. In my mind, they were more late 90s. Interesting.

So Bey never really had a Like A Prayer or Rhythm Nation or The Fame or 21 or 1989 era?

Just a huge zeitgeist-y album that changed pop music?

Lemonade made its impact of course, but it wasn't commercially huge.

[quote]Made me realize that a bunch of big songs I've always assumed were Bey's from the mid 00s were actually Destiny's Child. In my mind, they were more late 90s.

R235 that was my point earlier, Beyonce is/was a product of the late 90s. She really hit her peak charting years very early on from 1999-2004 or so, and Single Ladies rebooted her. So its kind of ridiculous for people here to talk like she is a recent phenomenon or something. Technically speaking, her music peaked ages ago. That she has been able to sustain such a huge career for all these years after that is remarkable, her fans are a big reason she maintained the hype for 20+ years.

Its also interesting that music charted for much longer back in the day. I viewed some other 80s 90s artists on that channel, back then a big top 5 hit would take many weeks to reach #1, and stay near the top for months and months. Now they just shoot right up the chart and back down in a couple of months.

I can't see her appeal at all, I don't get why The Gays (TM) worship her so much. I was told by one man (in his 40s!) that she "gives him life".

Maybe she has talent, but you can waste talent. You certainly don't need it to make great pop music, sometimes all you need is a good idea. Inspiration and originality can be far more interesting. I really don't get what unique thing she brings to the table?

Isn't she also a Christian who thanks her god every time she wins something? I don't which branch of Christianity advocates her booty and tit shaking but it is not really my area of expertise. Maybe the Hypocritical Sect or something.

A lot of Southerners like Beyoncé, Britney Spears and even gay Lance Bass still identify as Christian because Christianity is so deeply embedded in Southern culture. For many it's just a label and it's highly doubtful any of them are devout or even read The Bible.

[quote]I really don't get what unique thing she brings to the table?

r237, again Im not understanding why you and others are talking like she just showed up on the scene. Beyonce is old now just like your friend in his 40s.

A better question would be what did she bring to the table 20 years ago. This was the early 2000s, pre-dating "wet ass pussies" and twerking. Beyonce bought real sex appeal. I would say only Britney could approach Beyonce at the time. Guys actually wanted to fuck her and girls wanted to be her. Her music and dancing were unlike anyone else out at the time, she had so much energy and tantalized the audience.

Now she is living off the steam of her stans like your friend who is in his 40s now.

That "ancient white fags" troll must've finally been banned, he hasn't been back to this thread.

[quote] I don't which branch of Christianity advocates her booty and tit shaking

What branch of Christianity would promote getting married to Jay Z!????

R240 He better have been. I was this close to tracking him down and bashing his head in.

Klan Granny thread

r242 he shit on a lot of threads with his insanity. Maybe Muriel finally got rid of him.

All pop artists are "overrated" by definition. Pop music is designed by producers to be catchy and appeal to the masses. It's meant to be liked by a large amount of people and pop stars are selected by their looks, charisma and ability to connect with people and inspire them. Most talented people aren't famous. Go to local theaters, local choir groups, see local art galleries, etc. Many people can sing and dance well with practice and good technique. Talent has never been a sole factor in fame. Fame is almost like a lottery and luck plays a big role. Jim Morrison couldn't sing but he hyped up the crowd. The Sex Pistols were awful musicians but became the face of a movement. Even Mariah and Whitney's fame came down to them also being very pretty women who looked good for the camera in the era of MTV. Same with Elvis, he was very good-looking and charming and got big from his appearances on TV (a then-new medium) but vocally he wasn't better than any other (black) rhythm and blues artists. Also, overrated doesn't mean "bad" either.

There are soooo many talented people who are just boring and make boring music.

R246

Well boring is subjective. A lot of highly talented people don't have the resources and time to make the music they want. Music is really becoming an activity of the financially stable who have the leisure time and money. Music education declining too hasn't helped either and many kids aren't getting exposed to instruments as asly. Another thing is pop music is a huge investment and is designed to sound as perfect as possible. Autotune and other digital tools are used to polish out any imperfections. Also most pop songs are forced down people's throats. Studies have shown that repeating songs over and over will make people eventually grow accustomed to it and start liking it.

*easily

I used to work with a girl at an antiques mall that had a voice so pure,so clear ,so beautiful that when she sang along with the muzak people would stop and listen to her,absolutely enthralled. She tried and tried to break into the music biz,but she was a tad hefty and not the prettiest thing going. So to answer some poster upthread,yes,there are many talented people who are way better than Beyonce that will never get the chance to shine.

R249 Yes, it's sad. I also know talented people who aren't famous. They perform locally and are known among certain circles but they definitely aren't huge stars. These include jazz musicians, folk singers and rock bands. People in the NYC and Philly area. Fame really boils down to luck and timing. Also having connections and financial backing which is a far bigger factor. Having good looks and sex appeal definitely helps opens doors because it makes the person more marketable. But there's also the fact, some people are fine and content with just being able to perform and having a devoted following even if they aren't Beyoncé level huge

My main problem with Beyoncé is her taking credit for other people's work. She doesn't seem to learn from her mistakes. You would think those lawsuits she had to settle out of court for would have been a deferent. Her insisting on taking songwriting credits for money is just wrong and disrespectful to real songwriters. She gets away with because of her and Jay-Z's wealth and power in the industry. Those shared songwriting credits she extorted is a big reason why Beyoncé even more wealthy despite not selling as much as her peers.

Brandy should have had Bey's career and praise. She was a genuine talent and one of the greatest sangers of all time. A brilliant actress too. She could of had a EGOT career if the Hollywood mafia didn't ruin her superstardom. The establishment resented her after she swept a record breaking six Women of Soul Lady Soul awards for her stunning debut.

Bey good but nowhere in Brandy's league.

r252 for you gurl!

[quote] Beyonce bought real sex appeal

That may be true for you R239 but as a gay man (remember those?) I don't find women remotely sexy. Sorry about that.

R249, what about singers like Ella Fitzgerald or Stephanie Mills? The former was quite hefty and the latter was not pretty at all but they carved out successful careers in music. It wasn’t easy for either one of them, though. Poor Miss Mills had people in the industry tell her to her FACE that she was ugly.

Both ladies were and are better vocalists than Beonstage, however.

Ella and Stephanie came from a different time. Singers in their era were chosen for their vocal prowess not looks. Radio and vinyls were the main medium to get music. So you had a lot of artists who weren't good-looking that were popular because of their talent. In fact, it was not uncommon for people to not even know what an artist even looked liked if they didn't do photoshoots or made any TV appearances.

When MTV hit the scene in the 80s and the music industry began investing heavily in music videos as promotional material. It increasingly become about looks, sex appeal and choreography and the method behind choosing artists changed. Music videos became a form of soft porn or a fashion catalog rather than just the music. Beyoncé is from the same era of Britney, Justin Timberlake, Jennifer Lopez, Ciara, Ashanti, et cetera. The 2000s was the last decade of MTV having prominence. Social media replaced it and now it's more about personality and "relatability" rather than talent. So you'll see less attractive people getting famous but not because of talent but because they're funny or likable like Cardi B or many trap rappers.

Harry Styles looks and sounds great but the others in 1d didn't deserve to make 30m each out of that band. Zayn has okay vocals but no stage presence and is too scared to perform his music as a soloist. Louis really cannot sing at all.

Plus Louis is aging horribly.

[quote]She tried and tried to break into the music biz,but she was a tad hefty and not the prettiest thing going.

Adele broke through despite being hefty and not a beauty.

Adele always had a very photogenic face, even at her heaviest. Large green eyes, good skin, full lips.

Throw this thread into a grease fire already! The Beyonce stans are truly certifiable.

r254 I was simply answering r237's question about what she brought to the table in the 2000s, I am not sexually turned on by Beyonce! lmao

R252 I needed that chuckle.

This is my least favorite Beyonce moment. People suspected that she lip-synched the national anthem at Obama's 2nd inauguration, and she responded by singing it live before the Superbowl press conference. Like gurl, you are doing WAY too much. I for one dont give a shit if people lip sync at live events anymore, especially outdoors.

Her superbowl halftime show after this was EPIC however. My sister, who has hated Beyonce practically since the year 2000, was even impressed with it.

[quote]She's not a massive international star, especially outside the Anglosphere.

You're a massive racist old white ill informed moron, R120.

Not many here could understand - but being black and pretty, hurts. Beyoncé knows.

r265 = "ancient white fags" troll spouting his usual ignorance. Muriel banned him, but he's back.

The truth is not ignorance R267. You're some OLD racist F@G who comes on here to post racist comments about Beyonce and other black artists. You do it on the Drag Race threads as well. And even on the most casual threads - you post racist and misogynistic hate speech - like your HUNDREDS of posts about John Mulaney or Alanis Morrisette. You're obsessed with racial hate and obviously mentally very unwell. Mediocre white performers are your prerogative. BTW - you also keep posting about Whitney drowning in the bathtub - what kind of sick mind reduces her greatness to that? A RACIST OLD WHITE FAGs?

Beyonce is the greatest live entertainer in the world. No publication would disagree. Her three sold out stadium tours prove that. She's amazing. These were not American only tours. Japan, Europe, South America, Australia, Mexico and beyond. She sold out 133 stadiums around the world. Beyonce is the world's queen. Because of her music, incredible performances and what she does inspire. See the link at R265 for details. Read it this time, old white fool.

I can't stand Beyonce but she is definitely a global artist. This heat map is based on her youtube performance.

Beyonce is definitely well-known and popular internationally. She is popular in The UK, Japan, Korea where many of the pop stars took inspiration from her. She was a big seller during her first three albums too. Rihanna is bigger internationally but that have more to do with the sound of her music being less rooted in R&B and more pure pop that appeals to Latin American, European and Asian countries more.

Actually, her last album to do well in Japan was I am Sasha Fierce. And it's her worst performing market. But she is EXTREMELY popular in Africa (all over), France and Eastern Europe and The Caribbean.

R271 That makes sense considering her albums after 4 have become more hip-hop influenced and Afrocentric in aesthetic. I Am... Sasha Fierce had upbeat pop tunes and sappy love ballads (both big sellers in Asia) and she pushed a more "colorless" image in comparison to her first two albums.

Her best work was with Destiny's Child, especially the original line-up with Kelly, LaTavia and LeToya.

Yeah Destiny's Child did have the HITS. I think the master plan is for the ladies to reunite when they are older and tour. They can tour forever with the hits, like Earth Wind and Fire lol. It would be cool if they could reunite with five, LaTavia, LeToya, Kelly, Michelle and Beyonce.

The "ancient white fags" troll is really something else. If we had a poster who shit on threads calling people "ancient n----- fags" Muriel would ban him in an instant.

r274 Yes! I have been wanting a five piece Destiny's Child reunion for years! The thing is Mathew Knowles still owns the name Destiny's Child (I think) and who knows if he would allow such a thing. Maybe they could tour as "Beyonce Kelly Michelle LeToya and LaTavia LIVE!" or something lol.

DC4 is so much better. Writings on the Wall was an amazing album and Beyoncé was restrained on it. LaTavia and LeToya had strong personalities and added sass. They were also very articulate and intelligent ladies (watch the interviews) who had a hand in writing songs too. Mathew hated them for that and that's why he had them bagged. He hired Michelle who was shy and awkward and not really pop star material in order to have Beyoncé shine. Kelly stayed because she was Bey's childhood friend and Kelly was laidback and humble and never tried to hog up the spotlight. Farrah didn't fit like at all. I don't know what was up with that. She was canned very soon after she was added. Destiny Fulfilled was a good album and at least Michelle got a chance to shine on that in some songs.

R277, I saw the video for "No, no, no" and I was surprised that Beyonce really did not stand out much from the other girls at all. I can see why Mathew had those girls fired.

I don't think LaTavia or LeToya have any ill feelings either. I'm sure they would reunite if offered. Bey's sales and relevance are declining, so she may need to look into this opportunity given how much nostalgia sells. I think the only DC member that is bitter is Farrah which is absolutely justified, Mathew and Tina treated really bad.

I love this clip for all the wrong reasons. Destiny's Child with Celine! This is when Bey was just wanting to bust out with too much everything to set herself apart. Too many runs Beyoncé. Celine is a secure and very kind woman. With one coloratura run she outdoes everything Beyonce tries to do vocally. And I love Beyoncé. We all do. But for a while there - she worked it a bit too hard. And this was in Canada!

The grouping is a bit awkward, but the singing is still beautiful. Celine was the star of this show - but it's Destiny's song. Beautiful Beyoncé and the great Kelly Rowland.

While I don't think Beyoncé was abusive to her bandmates, I give her the side-eye for not standing up for them when her father was abusing his power and mistreating them.

In terms of WW, Beyonce is big but not as big as she is in the States. Taylor is the same way.

Gaga, Rihanna, and Ariana are much bigger worldwide, or as big, as they are stateside.

Mathew is a total asshole, I believe every allegation the other group members had. His latest fuck up was with Chloe x Halle. Im sure he had the same behavior towards LeToya and LeTavia back in the day.

It would be nice if she made some R&B again

I agree OP. I’ve never gotten the hype. She also seems very robotic personality wise. As others have said, a product more than a human. Luckily I think she peaked. I don’t see her ever getting the hype the way she did 5-10 years ago. She’s aging out of the pop diva role. What I will say is that she was probably one of the last with staying power. Like actors, singers have become disposable. I mean do we think the dreadful Dua Lipa will be around 10 years from now? I don’t even think she’ll be around 2 years from now.

She's fat.

Correct r285. Beyonce is now 40. It's all downhill from there, for every female entertainer.

Facts are facts R287. Beyonce dominated the public consciousness and musical landscape for two decades though. Not too many singers can say that. She can come back and sing anytime she wants to. Because no matter where she went with her musical taste and production, the woman can still sing a damn song. Come back with some R&B. Leave the cheesy songbook to lounge lizards like Gaga.

r288 = ancient white fags troll. Your opinion is worthless.

F&F R289. We're done with that disgusting piece of racist filth.

There is no racism. And how ironic for an asshole calling everyone "ancient white fags" to scream about racism.

^Attention Tony Travostino. ^

Her personality is very flat and she doesn't have emotion in her singing voice at all. People say Mariah and Whitney were soulless (though they're pop singers not soul singers) but they had so much more emotion in their voices. Hell, Ariana Grande has more emotion in her voice than Beyoncé. It was a shame that Ledisi, a real gospel singer, did't get a chance to perform "Take My Hand, Precious Lord" at The Grammys. Beyoncé got that spot when she doesn't have the depth in her voice to sing a traditional spiritual like that. Mahalia would be rolling over in her grave...

Beyonce and her super ugly husband are famous for both being Satan or Illuminati worshippers. I find it really disgusting. Someone pointed out on her video XO are two evil demons! Pause it at 3:05 to 3:06. Evil Satan worshippers.

Destiny's child cant hold a candle to En Vogue ! I liked DC ,but EV was worlds better.

I don't know what you guys mean, saying I'm not popular outside the US.

I'm a World Wide Woman, WWW!

EV, SWV and TLC were all much better than DC. Xscape, Blaque and 702 were all also great.

For me personally, just "My Lovin'" and "Don't Let Go" are better than anything I've heard from Destiny's Child as it is.

It's Taylor Swift.

No contest.

R300 Yes. I agree. Beyoncé is only overrated by her fans and the PR machine, she really hasn't been mainstream for a while. Taylor Swift is still a big mainstream star and outlived most of her 2000s competition except Rihanna and Gaga. TS gets tons of Grammy noms and actually wins them. Her music is overplayed and it gets high rated reviews by the music press who call her "daring", "original" and "groundbreaking".

I agree R301. Beyonce IS super talented and does have a great career. It's the goddess shit that is annoying. If she were treated like Rihanna or Gaga or Adele? That would make perfect sense and feel appropriate.

Yeah, it's Taylor Swift by a mile. She has a below average voice, is a below average musician but does write super catchy songs. I get her being popular for sure. Makes sense. But I don't get why she wins so many damn awards and is a critical darling! Not when Fiona Apple is doing the same thing, only better on every single level.

It's not mandatory to like her, is it? Why do her fans and stans think that you are not supposed to dislike her? Can one of you explain it to me?

Everyone loves Beyoncé.

Except for old racist men.

There are plenty of black folks and women who are not fans of hers.

Jazmine Sullivan is more interesting of an artist.

R293 is right about her voice. It has no colour to it, no soul, nothing.

And R307, it's often sharp. My ears just can't stand sharp voices. If you're going to be off, please be flat.

Jennifer Hudson also makes her vocal mistakes by missing notes sharp. # Neither is great, but only bad vocalists and worn out voices sing flat. Sharp singers usually just miscalculate.

[quote]Beyonce dominated the public consciousness and musical landscape for two decades though. Not too many singers can say that.

Because the PR machine and the music industry allowed her to stay in the game. Who did she have to compete with for the top spot? How many other artists were making music at that time with the same kind of push and power behind them?

And one time there was Aretha, Chaka, Gladys, Whitney, Roberta Flack, Patti, Jodey Watley, Janet Jackson, Diana Ross, Donna Summer. . . All these women were making music in multiple decades with each other in various combinations. How many other top big female names where making music at the time Beyonce has been propped up as #1. Legend, greatest of her generation.

Beyonce is THE legend of the last 20 years. She had plenty of competition. She was outsold by quite a few and outcharted by many. But only Beyonce is LEGEND. We all ❤️ her.

Beyoncé, Nicki and Rihanna pretty much became the only big black female artists throughout the 2010s. It was luck and timing really.

Brandy, Mya and Monica just fizzled out by the early 2000s. Aaliyah died in 2001 and she had a lot of potential. Ashanti was big in 2001/2002 but she got screwed over by the Murder, Inc nonsense. Keyshia was too cocky with a bad attitude. Ciara made too many career mistakes but she had a pretty good run and scored hits into the early 2010s. Keri Hilson screwed herself over with bashing Beyoncé publicly and showing her nasty. Fantasia was too much of a hot mess and not conventionally pretty enough. Jennifer's singing is an acquired taste. Jordin was too boring.

Why do you compare Beyoncé to only other black singers R312? She was the biggest female music star in the world for over a decade. And the only LEGEND from that time. The end.

R313, no, she was not. She dominated from like 2003 through 2008. Then, Lady Gaga ended that and next was Adele. So she had five years as the top female solo artist, nothing more than that.

Adele is her only competition for fame and success. She and Bey are great friends and mutual admirers, as the world knows. And Beyonce ruled long before and after 2008. Gaga was and IS a pop culture joke. Nothing more. You were busted comparing Beyonce to Ciara, don't dig your hole deeper R314.

I never compared them to each other 315 so I don't know what you;re taking about. Gaga absolutely was more dominant than Beyonce from 2009 through 2011. The Fame sold more than any of Beyonce's albums and her impact on pop culture was massive in those years. And then Adele came and that was that.

The ancient white fags troll is the Beyonce stan. Just tell him to fuck off.

Beyonce's first two albums sold somewhere around 28 million. Lady Gaga's debut sold somewhere around 36 millon. That's with streaming, album sales, singles sales, etc. combined. So Lady Gaga was clearly a bigger deal than Beyonce when she first arrived on the scene.

Gaga was popular with monsters and misfit queer boys. Beyonce runs the world. We're not talking record sales. We're talking legends and legacy. Adele and Bey couldn't be more different and more complimentary, but Adele is hardly a live performer of note. She's a hum a long artist. Very talented vocalist, but not a memorable performer. Once every 5 years she comes out of hiding and does Graham Norton and SNL to promote her latest album of ballads. With each one her voice has deteriorated further. She's thin, rich and amusing. But not a legendary performer. Now STFU.

Adele is hugely popular, no question. She'll have a long career like Sade.

That makes you the ancient white fag R317. Go to bed you fat racist fuck.

Who is worse, the ancient white fags troll or ? Or are they same person?

R317 is the worst. Everybody knows.

Adele is an adult contemporary pop with a great voice. She'll be around for a while because her gimmicks, choreography and sex appeal isn't her main selling point.

Lady Gaga had a big debut that was bigger than Bey's and while Gaga had her hiccups, she still has enough energy in her to have more big eras. Rihanna was consistently big with each album and probably had the best singles discography of the 2000s and 2010s. Her next album has massive anticipation and she's probably closest to reaching Madonna heights of fame. Rih played her cards right for a while.

Gaga is a lounge singer. Adele is something special. Her voice is one for the ages. Not technically great - but she's amazingly resonant and her vocal production is orchestral. Good songwriter with a unique voice.

Beyonce is legend.

^ no lies ^

[quote]...Mya...

Did she ever have more than one well-known song "Case of the Ex"? I'm wracking my brains here. I know she was on "Lady Marmalade" and "Ghetto Superstar", but I mean a song of her own. She was really being touted around back in the 2000s, I remember that. She was even in Chicago! ("Lipschitz!")

Mya got to perform with sexy ass Usher and messed up Whitney at the MJ tribute disaster concert that brought on 9/11.

That Michael Jackson tribute concert was filmed over two nights, 9/7 and 9/10. Of course we all know what happened next.

As R328 already pointed out in his post R329. 9/11.

Whitney was messed up at that time but still came out there and took names! She's better than anyone else on that stage. Addled Lisa and Liz and Michael dazed and confused and drugged out of their minds. Britney was the only sober one. So the Iraq attacked us. And burned NYC to the ground! It was quite the scandal.

^^ancient white fags troll

^^ ancient white RACIST F@G!!!

The gorgeous and supremely talented Beyoncé. Listen.

[quote]It's not mandatory to like her, is it? Why do her fans and stans think that you are not supposed to dislike her? Can one of you explain it to me?

r303 I'll use Britney Spears as comparison because she is Beyonce's peer and they came up in the same time period. Im not a Britney Spears fan, that doesn't mean I dislike her. I can still acknowledge she had a huge career as a pop artist and impacted culture, while not disliking her. I don't even like most of Beyonce's catalog but I can still acknowledge her contributions to music.

Here at Datalounge, it seems like you have to hate someone if you are not a fan of their work, which makes no sense to me. If I don't listen to someone's music or I'm not familiar with their career, I'm just indifferent. Going out of your way to talk shit about someone you know nothing or very little about indicates you are prejudiced. And since this happens more often here with artists and actors who are POC, it leads one to believe that posters are indeed racists.

I read somewhere that she can’t read

Answer is yes. She’s treated with a royalty she hasn’t earned. I don’t like her music. Style over substance.

She lip synced the national anthem at Obama's second inauguration and I remember how cheap and tasteless this all felt for Obama who is still friends with these entitled morons.

Yuck!

J Lo lip synced at Biden’s inauguration too.

[quote]Going out of your way to talk shit about someone you know nothing or very little about indicates you are prejudiced.

Not if you are also black. And how can someone not know about her if she is all over the media? Maybe they are basing their opinions on their own tastes in music. I think she's pretty and has a decent voice, but I only bought on of her CDs back in the early 00's. Everything else she's done has not impressed me. And I am black. African-American. Maybe it's generational, but I prefer my ladies from the 70s - 90s; it's what I grew up with. Phyllis Hyman, Stephanie Mills, Patti Austin, Randy Crawford, Natalie Cole, Anita Baker, Regina Belle. Some Janet and Jody. I cannot get on board with Bey or her stans. I know that the racists like to slag on her; they are the same ones who slag on other prominent, successful POC. But trust me, I am not them. I just don't care for her.

No, that would be Frank Sinatra.

R51, I agree with Linda but Linda gave us that horrible "Whats up" so that almost completely negates what she's saying.

r339 there are some posters here who couldn't differentiate Beyonce's solo hits from Destiny's Child's hits in the early 2000s, back when they were actually topping the charts. To me those people should not be talking shit about her because they aren't familiar enough with her music to have such strong opinions. And when I say talking shit, I mean saying stuff like she can't sing and that she is an over promoted Victoria Secret model. Saying that you dont care for her voice is not talking shit. And Beyonce is not even covered in the media that much these days.

I totally agree with people like r293, I don't like when Beyonce sings songs that a real soul singer should sing. She can sing, but rarely conveys a range of emotion in her singing.

I don't think J Lo lip synced at Joe Biden's inauguration. She did sing live.

[quote]Is Beyonce the most overrated "artiste" in music history?

Well, since Liszt.

Beyonce's very attractive so why on earth would she marry butt-ugly Jay or whatever his name is. And have kids who look like him?

R345, I imagine their relationship to be like Henry's relationship with Karen in Goodfellas. Sort of.

I do agree with the people who say Beyonce climbed to the top and stayed there because of weak competition. She was an amazing singer compared to Britney Spears, Katy Perry, Rihanna, etc. She would not have been as huge as she was in earlier eras.

Agree r347. I think Adele is the same. No doubt Adele has talent, but she's not exactly a musical genius. If she'd been around in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s she would've had more competition. Beyonce and Adele reached ridiculous levels of hype because the playing field was kind of empty, they didn't have a lot of competition.

Jay Z uh-gleh

they kid be ugly too

^ insightful ^

I think what makes Beyoncé stand out is she can make her voice sound very beautiful and she enunciates clearly which works well for the ballads she sings. She is very technical. Songs like "Irreplaceable" and "Listen" showcase her strengths. She isn't emotive or flavorful though. She's a perfectionist and does not want to seem vulnerable.

"Me, Myself and I" really suited her voice and singing style in the early 2000s. Lots of soulful bassline and harmony gave her more feeling. Her voice was so pure and clear, those runs and melisma like all the girls, Christina etc were doing at that time. End of Time and Cater 2 U were hot too.

Her other ballads I cannot stand! If I Were a Boy was terrible, just awful. She clearly had too many "yes" people during that era. She should've stuck to soul R&B ballads, she doesn't have enough emotion to pull off other styles. It's amazing that some singers, I'll just pick CeCe Peniston for example, can sing one line and convey more emotion and feeling than Beyonce does in an entire song.

Now she has been doing a trap sound for her last couple of albums. It only clicked for her 2013 self-titled because it was unexpected. Her current singing is very hoarse and growly. Nobody really buys that she is from the hood and she's a mediocre rapper at that. The Everything is Love era with Jay-Z was bit embarrassing and a set down from Lemonade. She tried to do another ballad with "Spirit" for The Lion King but she sounds so flat on that one. Beyoncé is having an identity crisis right now and I hate to say it but her father Mathew knew what he was doing when it came to marketing her.

I love your posts R352 and R353.

Since she is getting older. I feel she should try to appeal more to her original fanbase and go back to making upbeat R&B music like the stuff in Destiny's Child, "Dangerously In Love" and "B'Day". Or do another album like "4" which had a lot of throwbacks to old school R&B and disco.

Think that she'll do a Vegas residency?

What Toni Braxton has, Beyonce can't spell.

Toni Braxton has such a beautiful voice. Too bad she is awful with money and made way too many career mistakes. You would have thought that after The Heat, she would have continued to top the charts throughout the 2000s. I think she has a better voice than Mariah and prettier too.

Aside from Whitney, Streisand, Celine and Aretha, the greatest voices seldom become the biggest stars. That's obvious. Beyonce is a superstar, there can be no doubt. And she is a gifted technical singer and great live entertainer. But her voice is not memorable and her style is a bit underwater.

But when someone is as exceptional as Toni Braxton, or Jazmine Sullivan or Heather Headley, it makes you wonder just what it takes to get to the top? Because not only are they ALL fantastic singers with superior and signature voices - they are also captivating live performers. Sex sells, we know. And you need some charisma. Good industry contacts. The rest is a bit ephemeral. Why is Toni Braxton still not a star? Her voice is one of the most luscious true contraltoes ever to sing such sweet R&B. Heather Headley has had great success - so why is she not as well known as LuPone or Betty Buckley? Jazmine Sullivan is everybody's favorite not so secret secret. I think she prefers it that way.

Braxton's voice is too deep and manly to be popular. Not much she can do with such a manly voice. I remember when she first broke out in the 90s, everyone I know thought she was a man.

Beyonce's attempt at being sexy always seem so forced. She is too standoffish and kind of cold. Aaliyah had natural sex appeal to her and she was approachable and tomboyish.

R360, well, her first two albums sold 8 million each in America so clearly she was very popular in the 90s.

IMO...she's right up there with Taylor Swift.

[quote]Because not only are they ALL fantastic singers with superior and signature voices - they are also captivating live performers. Sex sells, we know. And you need some charisma. Good industry contacts. The rest is a bit ephemeral.

r359 the singers you mentioned and most of the ones being discussed are R&B singers. The R&B genre as a whole lost most of its popularity by the mid 2000s in favor of hip-hop. Unfortunately those singers who did not have huge resources behind them weren't going to be huge stars anymore, no matter what they did. Beyonce had the machine behind her, and to her credit she molded herself into the hip-hop scene. Hopefully one day R&B will have a comeback.

I've never thought Toni Braxton's voice was all that.

Think again R365. Her voice is beautiful and rich and resonant and has range - with a very pretty and agile head voice too. But she was too sexy and stylized. Toni Braxton. If she had learned to sing properly, she would be as great as Gladys Knight. The VOICE is there.

Toni Braxton sounded like a dude. Her voice was okay, but nothing insanely good. She wasn't Anita Baker.

I remember a friend of mine saying Toni Braxton sounded like a singing walrus and then that was all I could think about when I heard her songs.

Anita Baker sounded like a walrus with a cold. She's way before my time, but her sound was definitely for acquired tastes. Old white gay men mostly. I mean they were already old when she had her success, so they must be dead by now?

^^Oh look, the ancient white fags troll with another useless post.

Toni Braxton was 30 years ago, ancient white fags troll. She came only a few years after Anita Baker. You're not spring chicken yourself.

Huh R371. What kind of old f@g expression is "not spring chicken"? I'm 38. Handsome as fuck and know what's up. Don't make me get you kicked off this site again old man. Put down the bottle and go to bed now. Have a pudding. Your poisonous stalking and insane mediocrity are fucking boring. We pray for you. 🙏🏾 May Jesus visit healing to your troubled mind and ailing body tonight. Amen. 🙏🏾

r372 should be institutionalized. What a sad piece of shit.

[quote]Anita Baker sounded like a walrus with a cold. She's way before my time, but her sound was definitely for acquired tastes. Old white gay men mostly.

As it Toni Braxton is a contemporary reference you stupid ghetto fuckwit. She's been around since the early 90s, a LONG time ago. In fact, she debuted not too many years after Anita Baker.

A sad piece of shit is in your diaper R373.

38 is gettin old, bro. Peace.

Toni never sounded like a man to me in any of her songs. Her voice and phrasing is very feminine. She did sound a bit deep on "Unbreak My Heart" though. Cher, on the other hand, sounded like a man on "Believe" due to the autotune and Miley sounds like a man on a majority of her songs.

[quote]ghetto fuckwit? Bro? Your white sheets must come in extra large now, R374.

Attention: Tony Travostino

I'm definitely convinced Whitney had the best voice nowadays. Yes, her material was mostly generic 80s pop and sappy ballads but her vocal prowess and interesting interpretation elevated it. Her songs were much better live because she freedom to improvise and bring some gospel into it. I love Toni but I don't think her voice could have elevated any subpar material. Without Babyface, Diane Warren and other great producers and songwriters, I'm not sure if Toni could have stood out from other R&B singers at the time.

While Mariah does have an impressive singing range, her voice isn't always pleasant to me. In fact, she can sound grating at times. She's a very good songwriter and deserves credit for that. I'm not convinced that if she had not been involved Tony Mottola, a record exec, and didn't have her good looks and sex appeal to market that she would have become a huge superstar. I could see her being a successful songwriter for others who still sung some of her material once in a while.

Whitney's lesser-known ballads were better than some of the big hits, imho. Didn't We Almost Have It All and Why Does It Hurt So Bad were great songs.

Actually the two songs I mentioned were released as singles and did pretty well at the time, but they're not as well-remembered as other songs.

Sorry, I'm also r381

Diane Warren is such an overrated hack. She's written a handful of decent songs, but most of her catalogue is absolute fraubait shit.

It's made her richer than god, though.

Of course R379. Whitney Houston had the greatest voice in pop music history. Done. You won't even find a singer who disagrees, now that Aretha's dead, ha. Whitney's live renditions were full of gospel and R&B and soul inflections. That was noted from the start. She is head and shoulders above the rest. Her voice was perfection and her vocal production was astounding. She was greater than the rest. Her gifts and abilities would take pages to list and explain. She remains the gold standard.

Poor Whitney. If it wasn't for the drugs and Bobby her story would've turned out so much differently.

Amazing how so many artists from that generation died so prematurely. Madonna is one of the few left.

This song is underrated nowadays. "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" and "I Will Always Love You" ( I prefer Dolly) are so overplayed and obnoxious nowadays

I love this cover Whitney did of The Isley Brothers' For The Love Of You

Oh, I love her and everything about this performance. She sang this song many times, but seldom better. The height of her beauty and power and confidence. Gorgeous everything.

I'm always interested when this Aaliyah girl is mentioned. Everyone is saying that she would've been a huge star. But following on from comments above about singers who aren't that well known outside of the US, she seems to me to be a classic example. While Americans go on and on about her, I'm left thinking: "who?" Back in the day, my only exposure to her was when my boyfriend at the time took me to see Queen of the Damned. I'm listening to her big songs now, and have never heard them before in my life. They were never played at the clubs. Perhaps she was big in the US, perhaps people are only saying it because she died young, I dunno. We certainly had a lot of that type of music here, but not her from what I can remember.

R390, actually, Aaliyah was pretty popular in the UK and (I think) mainland Europe too.

Beyoncé needs to make some grown folks music like on her first album.

I think she looks a bit like Frida Khalo: I

She takes after her mom, Tina, a lot.

Ahh, that may explain it R391 - I'm in Australia.

[quote]Poor Whitney. If it wasn't for HER OVERBEARING BULLY OF A STAGE MOTHER CISSY, her story would've turned out so much differently.

FIXED.

R396, you left out the words "religious bigot and homophobic bitch cunt from hell" in your description of the nasty Cissy.

Cissy did a lot of damage to Whitney, but it's likely that Whitney would've been a druggie anyway. She started very early.

And why do you think Whitney started drugs early? Do you know the her life at all R398? Everyone tries drugs and cocaine was the same a having a drink in the 80s, but where Whitney ended up had both root causes and a lot of terrible family influences. Her own brother started her on cocaine and Bobby was the one who introduced her to crack. He used to send her down the corner in a limousine to buy it. He got off on small humiliations and tearing at her american pop princess image. Houston was not blameless. But she could have beat it if she hadn't so many toxic hangar ons that she supported in first class style and whom she tried to please. Whitney also had the enormous pressure of being THAT GREAT. When your talent is that large and your gift is so astounding - a singer cannot remain unaware of it. That she was also beautiful and became an instant movie star - the pressure never ended. No doubt that she was an addict. Drugs destroyed Whitney's beauty, her voice and took her life. But they did not steal her talent or her legacy.

Sometimes a cold was really a cold. She was the very best.

Yes, Whitney's older brothers started her on drugs. She was a recreational user for years, but then when she got with Bobby all bets were off. He dragged her down and she became a full-blown addict. Such a sad story.

I thought the story was that Whitney was heavily into drugs even before she met Bobby? I wonder which one was the more harmful influence.

Excuse ME! This is MY thread. Can you please stop discussing the dead crackhead and get back to talking about what a goddess I am?

This is MY thread, my thread. And I'm not dead, not dead. Hmm, I gots ta call my team of 45 songwriters and 18 producers to turn this thread into a hit album. This is my thread, my thread. She just a crackhead, crackhead.

cackling at R402 lmao

Yeah, I don't get why people blamed Bobby. Yeah he was a bad influence but most of Whitney's problems came from home and she was known as a party girl before he entered the picture. Bobby was just a dumb guy from the hood who got lucky by joining a boy band that blew up and got even luckier as a solo artist who became the face of new jack swing. Whitney was also a bigger household name and older than him too.

Whitney's drug use really escalated when she got with Bobby.

Bobby was a bad influence but Whitney also chose to get with him. Bobby was a drug addict and was a teenage father. He was obviously bad news. Whitney was 5 years older than him too. I think she found the relationship exciting at first. Maybe she felt she was too whitewashed and hooking up with the then-bad boy of R&B would give her some street cred. Apparently, Whitney was very hurt by some of the comments from the black community who accused of her being a "sell-out" and she got infamously booed at the Soul Train Awards. She got deeper into drugs obviously from dating a drug addict and it ended up with an abusive codependent on-and-off marriage. Whitney being super-religious probably was reluctant to divorce him after all of the warning signs. She really was surrounded by all the wrong people.

She was definitely surrounded by all the wrong people, and that includes her family. She should've taken a lesson from Madonna, who held her family at arm's length and didn't let them walk all over her once the fame and money came rolling in.

It's funny, Whitney may have been a cokehead but she was still came across as more well-spoken and sophisticated than Beyoncé in interviews. Whitney was a natural beauty too though she never flaunted it. The camera loved her and she did well in her films. If she could have gotten clean and away from the grifters in her life, she could still have an enjoyable career as a middle-aged diva who sings and acts. I could see Kelly Rowland playing Whitney in a film.

I don't believe for a minute that Bobby was the cause of Whitney's drug or crack problems. He has always stated that she was the one into all of it. I trust him more than her.

I don't necessarily trust Bobby but I do think people just assume that he was the reason she spiraled out of control when Whitney was hardly an innocent victim. She was older than him and knew what she was getting into. And she was ALREADY into drugs by the time she met him.

She was into drugs, but only recreationally. When Bobby entered the picture she spiraled out of control.

R412, to be honest that's on her. She knew Bobby was a druggie and a "bad boy". If she spiraled, it's because she choose to marry Bobby with complete knowledge of his character and addictions.

Or she didn't expect to get so caught up in it. Lots of people think "I can handle my shit" until they can't, when their partner is a drunk or an addict.

She was dating Randall Cunningham, quarterback for the Eagles before Bobby. I remember reading that she dumped him because he wasn’t a thuggish bad boy. I don’t think BB was a saint, but she wasn’t either. I know someone who became friendly with them and invited them over for a BBQ. They said they were both so trashy.

R415, I think a lot of people say Clive Davis was responsible for her clean image (implying he put her in some kind of "straightjacket", so to speak) at the beginning of her career but I do think Whitney also knew what image would sell in the Reagan 80s. Obviously, she was nothing like htat in real life based on all the stories I've heard (like yours).

R415 is a racist liar. Whitney was a good girl. Yes she was glossed up by Clive Davis to be his black Barbie Doll POPSTAR. Whitney was a well mannered, well spoken church going girl who respected her parents. She was shy and funny, a girl from the block, never in trouble and far from promiscuous. Everyone knows that. Her life of increasing harder drugs, her husband and later associates changed her and contributed to downgrading her confidence and her image. She became a SUPERSTAR at a very young age and remained one until she died. Of course she got tougher and Bobby made her trashier by association. But Whitney Houston was not trash. Just messed up for too long a time. Put some respect on her name.

Whitney code-switched like every ambitious black person did back then. She kept the hood behind closed doors. Once she hooked up with Bobby and the drug abuse escalated further in the 2000s, she stopped giving a damn. Even lowering herself to reality TV and letting her voice decline. She had so many chances because she was big even throughout the 90s with Waiting to Exhale, The Preacher's Wife, Cinderella and her album My Love is Your Love.

R418, that's the perfect way of putting it. She just gave up at some point. I've heard about bad behavior from her and Bobby even as far back as The Bodyguard.

All celebrities code switch. You can't fake being well mannered and intelligent. Whitney was lovely funny beautiful person. When she was stressed, depressed or unimpressed she let you know.

Watch her sweet elegance and terrible discomfort with the drunk pig of a man. Couchon.

I think you Whitney stans need to start your own fuckin thread before I buy this site and shut it down!

I don't know, her fans are kinda like a cult but she's really a talented girl also beautiful since her DC years.

Beyonce has always been a really, really pretty girl. With a beautiful shaped face and lovely almond eyes, a narrow chin and high cheekbones. Beautiful lips with a heart shaped smile. She is a textbook definition of p r e t t y. And at times, she is gorgeously beautiful. A powerful woman with a boatload of talent and good looks. Doesn't matter how many names are on the list of writers or producers, Beyoncé is the product, the conduit the inspiration and the messenger. She so good that some people seek to diminish her. She's much more than pretty. She's a cultural and feminine force who provides us with challenges and rewards to our expectations. She's important, an artist. ❤️

Um, it's incredibly insulting to Whitney to even mention Beyonce in the same breath in terms of vocal ability. Whitney, drugs or no drugs, was also vastly more interesting as a person and celebrity.

Whitney was also naturally beautiful and had a natural glow. She didn't need to flaunt, she lit the room she entered. Beyoncé's beauty feels very artificial and studio manufactured in comparison.

You've posted many negative comments on this thread already about Whitney and her drug use and "ghetto" behavior R426. Don't code switch now, just because we can all agree that Beyonce is beautiful. There are many casual photos of Bey everywhere. Her beauty is not manufactured.

Whitney was also very beautiful. A knockout. Both things can be true. Not all black men and women look the same - you ancient white queer. The variety of our attractiveness is infinite.

The only Beyonce songs you like were the ones you could shake your ass to when SHE was starting out - back when your ass was already OLD.

Beyonce was born pretty. Whitney was a model who grew into her clean athletic look and was given a princess type makeover. She took control of her look and style with fame and success. A beautiful woman.

Maybe you should watch the Pretty Hurts video again R426. You seem to have missed the point.

[quote]you ancient white queer.

How charming.

Beyonce is a middle-aged woman, she's been around for nearly a quarter-century now. Maybe you should update your references so as not to appear as old as the "ancient queers" you lambaste.

A Beyonce superfan would definitely be around middle age by now, Beyonce is not a contemporaneous figure to a young demographic.

Huh? Don't fuck with me gramps at R428. Your hateful posts are all over this site. You are a conditional racist. Aka. A RACIST. I know how old Beyonce is you fool. She is 40 this September. My pointe WAS that ancient white FAGS who go on about only liking her in Destiny's Child are so predictable in both their musical limitation and their dog whistle. They are old white men who understand nothing of her music or intentions. They only enjoy black singers that they can flap their prolapse too. No ghetto. No trap, No House, No Hip Hop. No blues, no RAP. Beyonce started out with some danceable songs for the older white people. I'm not that. I'm her younger contemporary. And a big fan. Knowledgeable, talented and successful in music myself. I never said I was a kid. I said that YOU are an ANCIENT WHITE RACIST F@G! Stop congratulating your own posts from another device BTW. We all know who you are NUTJOB.

Get in the truck now Gramps. Lie down and die. Shoo.

^^insane

Drag that racist white bitch R430!! He posts nothing but hate towards black women and men. All over this site. Unhinged. The world's oldest GAGA fan who also posts about Joan Crawford and Candace Bergen??? Anceint sounds right. He has so many hateful posts about Beyonce on this thread. In a week he'll start another one about her. We DO know who he is. Get rid of it Datalounge.Ban RACIST Hatemongers from DL!! F&F r428. And all his other posts on this thread. He's always calling people names. Nasty old piece of filth. F&F R428.

r432 is the "ancient white fags" troll under another account, talking to himself.

Troll, your syntax/verbiage/sentence structure is exactly the same in all of your posts. You aren't fooling anyone.

Ancient white fags troll, you posted numerous times in the Candace Bergen thread.

^ this sad, racist old white man posted over 110 times on ONE thread about John Mulaney.^ Lusting after him and calling his wife names. Sick fuck troll at R428 and R433,is the same old man as R434. What a terrible life. F&F.

Beyonce as well as Garth Brooks.

Poor r435 gets called out again and can't handle it. Just die, you fucking worthless freak.

It's true about that old lech posting over 100 times on one thread about John Mulvaney though. R434 did.🚧 And then continued on more threads about him! I stopped counting after 200 posts but he had lots more. They were all about hating the dude's wife and wanting to suck him off? No wonder he hates Beyonce. He tastes bad. It's hard to get rid of crazy off the internet, but the RACIST HATE SPEECH is actionable.

Attention: Tony Travostino

For the record, I don't mean to get entangled in the bickering, but I don't think the ancient white fag poster would stan Gaga. That doesn't feel right to me.

In my experience, ancient white fags usually stan the Nymphs or Sirens. You know, the big divas from their youth.

r438 you are making no sense whatsoever.

The old white fag poster stans Gaga several times on this thread.....and Madonna of course. Bitch is OLD.

i never liked Beyonce when i heard Crazy In Love i didn't think it was great, but now I think it's her best song. She doesn't have much musical talent, acting talent, or intelligence. The beyhive and other black people hype her up because they think that white men have controlled the world for so long and empowering Bey makes them feel better about themselves and their race. They are absolutely right about the white men - look at all the black entertainers who never got their deserved cut of the money from their work. So I think racism is a terrible thing but it is systemic unfortunately. I think woke culture has given black and brown folks some encouragement and the day may come when everyone is equal, I hope so.

racist at r441 - old people can have opinions and express them, too - and not everyone who doesn't like Beyonce is a racist

[quote]look at all the black entertainers who never got their deserved cut of the money from their work.

I know! That was terrible.

r444 Seriously!

"My pointe WAS that ancient white FAGS who go on about only liking her in Destiny's Child are so predictable in both their musical limitation and their dog whistle... No ghetto. No trap, No House, No Hip Hop. No blues, no RAP. Beyonce started out with some danceable songs for the older white people"

Beyonce did not start out with "some danceable songs for the older white people". Destiny's Child's first album was more mature than pretty anything Beyonce has done since (except maybe the 4 album), with a good blend of R&B and Hip Hop.

Black people arent a monolith and many don't worship Beyoncé. Many black people think she is overrated in fact. The only people who worship her are the obsessive fangirls who want to look like her and of course the gays of all colors. Many black academics ripped Lemonade and Black is King apart and pointed out a lot of the contradictions.

[quote]Black people arent a monolith and many don't worship Beyoncé. Many black people think she is overrated in fact.

I agree, Beyonce narrowly escaped cancellation after the two original members exited Destiny's Child. She was lucky that it happened in the year 2000 before the days of social media. Black people's opinion of her was low for years after that. Kelly emerged as the first breakout star of the group which also helped reform Beyonce's image somewhat, helping convince listeners that Destiny's Child was not just a launching pad for Beyonce's solo career. Beyonce also got lucky with Dangerously In Love, her label did not like the album at first because the sound was unlike anything else out at the time.

I wish she would change up her hair

When you have stans share willing to engage in online and public bullying escalating to violence...there is no excuse for this. Why doesn’t she make a public statement about some of her fans’ obnoxious behavior? She’s all about her brand, so a little bit of proactive PR would go a long way.

Beyonce is local. Gaga is a GLOBAL superstar.

Just look at the gap:

She looked cute when she wore her hair in natural styles like this. I wish she had gone the neo-soul route though Solange took over for that

With darker hair

Those L’Oreal hair commercials she used to do were annoying AF. You could tell the hair was CGI, the way it moved. But hey, she got paid, so it’s okay.

R454 I remember cringing at seeing L'Oreal break down Beyoncé's ethnicity as "African American", "French" and "Native American". Most African Americans have some to a lot of European heritage in their blood, so that's not a big deal. And has her Native American ever been verified? Millions of people claim it but have no proof. Creoles are still African-American, just a smaller subculture with more French and Spanish ancestry and preserved more African spiritual traditions like voodoo. Also, Jennifer Lopez's just said "Puerto Rican" which is essentially the same type of mixture (white, black and Indigenous) but PR is a nationality that can be any race.

The commercial

Yes r455 r456... as if the only way she could be considered pretty is if she were mixed.

Beyoncé never looked that mixed to me. Not to the same extent as biracial people like Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, Alicia Keys or Meghan Markle. Beyoncé, Rihanna and Nicki all look like typical light-skinned girls that wouldn't stick out in the neighborhood or family reunion. Yeah, they have European ancestry (also Indian too in Nicki's case) but so do so many other black people in North America and Latin America and usually that admixture is generations old so most black people don't usually claim it.

Beyoncé, Pink and Timberlake are the only ones from the Y2k pop era to still have popularity and the ability to get a hit once in a while. Honestly, I feel like Lady Gaga was the last interesting pop star though and her rise seemed organic too. I've completely lost interest in her and her music but in 2008, she was very mysterious and fascinating and her sound was very fresh. Rihanna came from the same era as Fergie, Ciara, Tearra Mari and Cassie and she wasn't any more talented than they were but Rihanna had more charisma and she was smart enough to reinvent herself with each album (released yearly too) to stay fresh in people's heads.

R459, Rihanna seems to have slowed down recently though. I think Anti was released like 4 years ago?

Yes. Rihanna has been on a long hiatus. But I feel that it's not impossible for her to have another hit album. She has been teasing and hinting about her music through her social media to keep interest up. Given how passionate her fanbase is and the fact, she is still pretty young (only 33), she still has a chance to get another big era. Plus she doesn't have a lot of competition and has all the access to the best producers

R461, wow. It's crazy to think she's been around for 16 years and she's only 33. She's basiclaly been an A-list star half of her life! And she's still not anywhere near finished (I think).

Rihanna is ready. There's something coming any day from her. It will be as BIG as anyone can be these days. In Ri's case - that's massive. She is LOVED.

Miss Kelly Clarkson doesn't have hit records but her voice is more beautiful than ever and better than any of them. She and Bey are the same age. P!nk too. KC is a gorgeously gifted vocalist and a beautiful singer. Not always one and the same. From the KC Honours.

Man, Kelly Clarkson's voice just shimmers. She's underrated as fuck.

Yeah Kelly Clarkson will be a legend of the 2000s in her own right, like Beyonce. She is the real deal.

Kelly Clarkson is amazing. I wish would do more music and not that dumb talk show. She's not even that old to be doing that type of stuff. Kelly needs to shop around for some good producers and songwriters.

I actually like Kelly's talk show, and now that Ellen is finally exiting she will probably get higher ratings. She is very approachable and it fits her personality. She is also about to be a single mom and the talk show has optimal working hours. Compared to being on the road all year. She can always put out more music here and there.

I like Kelly too,but Helen Keller has a better dress sense than that girl ! Who fucking dresses her ???

Like I said. Kelly just needs better songs but she seems content with her life and is making tons of money with her talk show.

I can't name a single Kelly Clarkson song.

r470 I think you would be in the minority, her songs from the early 2000s got tons of airplay and charted forever. I still hear Since U Been Gone and Breakaway played in commercials, stores and random places all the time.

Since You Been Gone and Miss Independent were extremely overexposed around 2003/2004. My Life Would Suck With You was also overplayed when it came out. I definitely associate Kelly Clarkson with mid-2000s pop along with Beyonce, Britney, Gwen and Nelly Furtado.

Oh ok r471 I do know those two songs. They were shit. I never followed Clarkson and didn't know she was the one who sang those.

Kelly Clarkson is not shit. She is the only real vocalist still in the game. Her abilities and skills and quality of sound, the resonance and beauty of her voice are remarkable. And she's got the range, ha. She sings herself ragged sometimes, but there's no mistaking that she's the best. Her voice is amazing. And she can sing any damn thing. She's too good for the game, but she excelled at that too.

Her voice is nice, but her material is shit. Same with Celine Dion. It's a shame they couldn't have done better music.

Clarkson can sing mezzo soprano, soprano, she is considered a spinto soprano, can also sing contralto. She has an incredible range and powerful voice. She can also sing in the whistle register. Very few modern singers can compare to her. R473 probably loves non-singing shit "singers" like Rihanna or cunts like Katy Perry who have no range whatsoever. R473 is a total ignorant cunt and needs to shut her cuntmouth.

Range: C3 - C6 - G6 (F7) Longest Note: 11 Seconds Vocal Type: Light-Lyric Soprano (3 Octaves, 4 notes) Technical Rating: A- Recommended Listenings: Honestly, Invincible, Sober, Why Don't You Try

Positives: A vocalist with top notch phrasing that makes her an incredible emoter. A top echelon belter, with the ability to access any part of the belting range with ease (see her A5 in rehearsal on "Duets"). The belts (can) draw heavily from lung power, carry support up to the F5/F#5 region, and are capable of reaching Soprano C (C6). In this area, her voice can cut through even orchestral and band arrangements (My Country Tis of Thee). The belts are most resonant from Eb5-G5.

Her falsetto is light and gentle, adding soulful nature to her ballads as well as emotional leverage. Her head voice, though rarely utilized until 2015, is clean and full (see Tightrope). Her low notes (below Bb3), though the weakest part of her range, have become more supported over time. These notes have been getting stronger through the years, carrying the previously mentioned smokey tone down to Eb3 (See her cover of Lies), and a dark quality to C#3 (harmony in Good Goes the Bye). Her midrange is full and well supported.

Vocal drives can be executed in all parts of the range, and can be taken out when desired (Compare the F5's in Honestly and Let Me Down). Able to flip through all her registers without the use of melisma, though she is more than capable of using the technique (See Why Don't You Try). Vibrato is a major asset to Clarkson, with the vibrato being wide and rolling (See Honestly and Mr. Know it All country version). She can apply her stunning vibrato to a majority of her voice (as demonstrated it from F3-C6-G6).

Though her voice is truly 'at home' in rock and pop stylings, her voice can also transcend through multiple genres, including Rock, Country, Pop, Jazz, R&B, Classical, Gospel, and Indie. With this ability to cover multiple genres, she has covered an expansive list of artists on American Idol and on her latest tours. Some of the artists she has tackled include Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, Aretha Franklin, Lady Gaga, Radiohead, Sara Bareilles, Adele, and even Eminem.

Her whistle register, though heavily underutilized is light and maintains a rolling vibrato.

Negatives: Clarkson tends to push her voice in the upper chest register, creating distortion. This is mostly due to heavy touring, the demanding nature of her songs, and inconsistent technique. In her upper belts were lodged deep in the throat, and sounded very damaged. However, a few years of experience and better technique lessened this effect (2012-2013). The whistle register is underutilized live and in studio.

Since her first pregnancy, Clarkson's belting voice has been incredibly inconsistent, showing an inability to hold C5's and occasional cracking, while the head voice lacks accuracy in the 6th octave.

In general, Clarkson's voice is inconsistent, and she generally takes pride in putting emotional delivery over technical perfection (an assessment she has admitted to).

There's no denying that Clarkson is a good singer, it's just that her music is basically commercial pop assembly-line junk. There's no "there" there. It's a shame that she, like Celine Dion, couldn't have recorded better material.

Most of these women, including Beyonce herself, came up in a different time. They were products of the record label assembly line era and really most of the decisions were made for them. So yeah a lot of their material was stuff they likely had to grow to love. Unfortunately for Whitney and Britney they hated being confined by the image created for them.

Kelly Clarkson was also a trailblazer of sorts since she also had to deal with the uncharted territory being a recording artist generated by American Idol. She could have easily fallen off. She was charting next to women who sold sex appeal, but she still managed to be extremely popular. That is the mark of a truly talented singer.

Kelly sounds like a truck driver who smokes a pack a day. Her voice has been raspy and dry for over a decade. She is not a great singer by any stretch of the imagination.

r476 is the ancient white fags troll, a true shitstain and mental case.

r479 Id rather listen to Kelly's drying singing than hear Beyonce's current trap mess! Gurl bye with that

Ah , wonder why the moron at R480 keeps posting stupidity and flaunting his old man ignorance? Such an easily threatened old girl. Angry insane old bitch boy. Whiter than rice and older than dust.

Beyonce is a technically gifted singer and great performer. Kelly Clarkson is a world class vocalist with a beautiful voice. She has every colour and ability in her vocal palette. So much ignorance comes from ^ that ancient white fag^ aka R479/R480 on datalounge. What a sick old man. And yes, they are the same poster.

Kelly can add rasp at will to her vocals but she can shimmer up to the most beautiful soprano clarity too. On a good day. The best belting voice around and the most beautiful head voice. She isn't about being perfect. Or looking perfect. She's a great and versatile singer who loves to sing. Lots of hits at a time when sex sold more. Her voice is the only one that compares to the Trinity and the only one in discussion when coaches talk about the great singers of the last 20 years. Beyonce skill is superior too, but her tone is not special. Kelly happens to be a very cool and nice woman too. She covers hundreds of songs, because she can sing anything and she hasn't always been happy with her own songs.

We can't help it if that old white fascist F@G wants to troll us. F&F that monster. He's an abscess on Datalounge. He's all over this thread. Start blocking R479 and then go from there. It's garbage.

I guess you have to understand something about singing to know that this is a PERFECT pop vocal performance. For every reason. Deceptively masterful and beautiful singing. KC.

r482 if you're actually 38, as you claim, then I'm just a smidge younger than you. And we're both on our way to being "ancient" in gay years.

Your shitposting and mental instability is really not worth commenting on, however.

Raspy or not, Kelly is definitely is one of the stronger vocalists of the time. Many would say Christina Aguilera but she yells too much. Beyoncé is good but not amazing and the same with Pink, good but not amazing.

Kelly is a trained girl. Can sing. Better at 40 than she did at 20. That's the way it supposed to be.

Kelly dares to go there. Yeah it's raspy and she's spectacular.

ACES

Don't doubt Kelly.

Think it's playback? Think again. Adele would have sold millions with this song - sounding not half as gifted. Kelly is just a pure singer. Soulful as they come. She's past the age of caring if she's cool. She's just memorable in every performance.

This is the video meant to align with my post at R490!

Gorgeous skinny and blonde. Kelly doing a bit too much with John Legend. But man, her voice is beautiful. Kelly loves Mariah and we hear that influence here.

Kelly Clarkson's songs, from those that I've heard, are pretty banal commercial pop. She's technically a very good singer, but her material has always been pretty assembly-line. And the production values are the same as every other pop singer from her era, nothing stands out.

800 awards? Whoever complained about participation trophy culture wasn't whistling dixie.

You're a disingenuous moron R493. As in a liar.

Everything about THIS is Kelly Clarkson. The bad dress, the lack of nerves, the fuck up, the laugh. Starting over again with her generosity on stage and beautiful gutsy singing. A beautiful, soulful and singular voice. Trills belts and thrills. She's so good she goes unnoticed. Except by anyone who sings or plays music. Ha.

True

Nobody said she didn't have a good voice, she does. It's just that her material is pretty ordinary.

R451, Gaga and Rihanna are WAY bigger than Beyonce worldwide. Bigger than Taylor too.

R461, Rihanna hasn't released since 2016! Which is crazy considering she used to release an album a year. But whenever she does? It will be huge. Like Adele, she's just loved.

Anyone who argues that Kelly doesn't have a once in a generation is just stupid. Fine if you find her songs lacking or even if you don't connect with her voice. But technically speaking? Doesn't get any better for a pop singer.

Brandy >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beyweave. Gurlfren got lucky when Brandy's career was destroyed by the Hollywood mafia. Bey is just boring and soulless. Brandy can SANG and ranks with the legendary queens of soul/R&B. Beyaki will never appear in a movie with legends like Whitney or Diane, who both recognized Brandy's star quality and once in a generation talent.

R480 is clearly Janbot. Get off the site, cunt.

Brandy's last good album was Afrodisiac in 2004. She never released anything on par or greater than that. You could say the driving accident which resulted in a death derailed her career since people were understandably disgusted that Brandy killed a woman. Brandy takes way too long to release albums too and her recent album was lackluster.

R482 Good on you for pointing this horrible cunt out. Blocked it. Who needs to read garbage like its.

R500 is Madgebot. Fuck off, cunt!

R503 Fuck off, Janbot.

I can't believe anyone in 2021 still listens to Brandy.

[quote]I can't believe anyone in 2021 still listens to Brandy.

r505 all these women have a fan base, those women may be 40+ years old now but they are still fans of the music that was made. Sittin Up In My Room came on in a store when I was shopping yesterday, and it sounds just as pleasant as it did 25 years ago.

I love that 90s R&B is now the old school for the kids to reference

Brandy's 90s Moesha fashion is popular on black IG and TikTok similar to Janet in Poetic Justice, Scary Spice and TLC. They are trying to recreate that era of fashion. Brandy's issue is she wasn't able to remain consistent musically or with her album releases. The driving accident ruined her career even further. She was popular in the 90s because she had this wholesome girl-next-door image and was an inspirational teen idol similar to Debbie Gibson and Britney Spears. I don't think Brandy could really pull off sexy or adult easily when she tried to make albums as she aged. She really just ran her course.

I can barely remember Brandy, she had a few hits in the 90s and then she was off the radar.

Kelly Clarkson is boring and her voice is very shrill and annoying. Next!

Gaga has the best voice in pop music: vibrant, clear, emotive, and effortless/natural. Not nasal and grating like Beyawnce's or Kelly's.

Rihanna can't sing for shit or dance, she's a terrible live performer with no stage presence. But I still think she's far more interesting and cooler than boring bitchonce. She's also a big copycat. Steals from every other artist.

Janbot must be working the drive through window tonight! Expect multiple tweets all in support of each other!! (s)He's got access to many devices. Go one now. Let's see you compliment yourself, it's fun.

Gaga has a good voice but her music has gotten extremely boring and she a lot of lost her mystique by showing too much of herself. Rihanna can't sing or dance but she has good taste for music and knows a hit when she hears one. Miley is always struggling to stay on key. Katy doesn't even try to be on key. Taylor Swift can't sing and her music is mediocre too. I think Ariana is probably the best one actually but her potential is wasted on subpar material. Selena is even more untalented than Rihanna.

Lady Gaga is pretty overexposed now, she's in a lot of stuff, ads, and award show appearances. She needs to dial it back a bit.

Yes, Gaga seems to forget that people fell in love with back in 2008 when she was mysterious and seemed avant-garde especially compared to the pop tarts at the time. She cheapened her brand and authenticity by trying too hard to prove her talent and later going Hollywood. Now she's become a media whore rather than artist who tried to make challenging music. Janelle Monae on the other hand, kept her coolness by choosing indie films and making explicitly gay music and disappearing and returning to the spotlight when it suits her.

Gaga became desperate after adele came knocking with 30 million album sales out of no where, the public got tired of her publicity stunts like wearing meat etc. She has to rely on ariana grande for a hit song now which is sad, she wouldn't have had another hit after so-so lead single performance. Sad.

Stop tearing Brandy down. She was a superstar with one smash single after another and also juggling an acting career with her own TV hit where she was the lead. She was destined to be one of the megastars of this century but the industry mafia didn't like her success and "arranged" the accident to tear down this strong and beautiful queen's career. I Wanna Be Down, Baby, Sittin' Up In My Room, Best Friend, I Dedicate, The Boy Is Mine and other smash hits shit on anything Beyweave has ever released.

Beyweave must be jealous that Brandy shared the screen with legends Whitney and Diana while all Bey got was Jennifer Hudson.

Brandy may be have been popular at one point a few decades ago, but she was never destined to be a “megastar of the century”. She was average and forgettable at best.

[quote]Janelle Monae on the other hand, kept her coolness by choosing indie films and making explicitly gay music and disappearing and returning to the spotlight when it suits her.

Janelle Monae’s main talent is showing up uninvited to every award show and red carpet event.

Brandy won FIVE Soul Train Lady of Soul awards in a single night at the age of 15!! A year later she was given the Soul Train Aretha Franklin Entertainer Of The Year Award. And she wasn't even 20 yet. All the signs pointed to her becoming a global megastar within a decade until the accident. She already conquered TV and could of become a big movie star too.

Brandy’s main fanbase was white high school girls who watched MTV and read Seventeen.

[quote]Brandy may be have been popular at one point a few decades ago, but she was never destined to be a “megastar of the century”.

Brandy's whole appeal was being "the girl next door". You can still have a ton of star power if you can achieve the " it" girl next door status in America. And it was remarkable because Brandy was a dark skinned girl too. She had crossover appeal because she was pretty, had a great voice and a great personality. Brandy was also successfully transitioning into more mature content with Full Moon, that was a good album but everything came to a halt when she had her daughter and faked getting married. Its amazing how different times were even 20 years ago when that happened, today I dont think people would even care.

[quote]Brandy's whole appeal was being "the girl next door". You can still have a ton of star power if you can achieve the " it" girl next door status in America.

Brandy was only the “it girl next door” until 1994, when Jennifer Aniston took over that role.

Brandy has a voice that is perfect for contemporary R&B. I can't hear her singing 2000s urban pop songs that Ciara, Usher, Beyonce and Chris Brown sang. R&B became less popular in the 2000s and what was left of mainstream R&B got absorbed heavily into pop, electronic and hip-hop. Traditional R&B became more of a niche market.

Brandy is best at doing R&B and neo-soul. She needs to make another album more in line with Jazmine Sullivan.

I've never understood Beyonce's appeal.

R515, Gaga is still many times bigger globally than Beyonce. Gaga is as huge globally as Madonna was at her peak.

It's one thing to be big in your country of origin, but becoming a global superstar puts you on a whole other level in terms of fame and fortune.

R525, not even close. Madonna had two massive albums (True Blue and Like a Virgin), two big ones (Like a Prayer, Ray of Light,) along with two very popular ones (Confessions and her debut) . Gaga did technically have one massive album but that's honestly cheating--The Fame will probably outsell both True Blue and Like a Virign but that's because The Fame Monster is included with the sales of The Fame. REally, those are two separate albums. Madonna didn't need "deluxe editions" or EPs to add to her sales.

“ Gaga is as huge globally as Madonna was at her peak.”

Can you fuck off? Your stupid and ignorant comment pissed people off. Gaga can only wish she would be as popular and successful as madonna. Fuck off

Nobody today is as big as Madonna was at her peak. Nobody. Madonna had a cultural impact that is unimaginable today.

Gaga's ASIB was bigger than anything Madonna has ever done in her career. The movie and soundtrack outsold Madge's whole career. And Gaga has had 3 huge albums--The Fame/Fame Monster, Born this Way and ASIB soundtrack.

Also, Gaga has a wildly successful Vegas residency. Madonna can't do a Vegas residency because she's so disliked by most of the public.

Born this Way and ASIB were not nearly as huge as Madonna's best selling albums, not even close. The only female who peaked higher than Madonna with two albums is Celine.

Ahem. Whitney Houston's The Bodyguard is the biggest selling soundtrack of all time. I Will Always Love You is the biggest selling single by a woman in music history. The soundtrack of The Preacher's Wife is the best selling gospel album of all time.

Houston is the ONLY artist to chart seven consecutive #1 Billboard Hot 100 hits and one of a very few solo artists with eight consecutive multi-platinum albums.

Celine outsold everyone for a whole decade and has TWO albums in the top ten best selling of ALL Time.

Fuck off about Lady Gaga. She was a thing. And then she wasn't.

r529 you must be too young to remember the 80s and early 90s, or weren't even born. Trust me, the kind of fame and influence and general conversation and interest Madonna provoked cannot be compared to any celebrity today.

Lady Gaga is an Oscar winner, which is something Madonna will never be.

Madonna is the most iconic female artist ever, something Lady Gaga is lightyears away from being.

[quote]Same with Celine Dion.

Cannot disagree with this...I have one Celine Dion CD. The rest were so uneven I found them unlistenable.

A great singer will transcend shitty material--only Whitney could make a song like "Greatest Love of All" listenable. Celine's singing in English seems to do the opposite, everytime she sings she exposes how embarassing and trite the songs are.

Oui Céline a du mal avec son phrasé anglais, mais en français c'est une fille libre et sexy.

Jamais une telle voix depuis que le monde a commencé. En français, Céline est une magnifique chanteuse.

Céline est une femme. Elle est une déesse pour les Français. Nous savons qu'elle est aussi un peu bête. C'est une histoire d'amour.

Yes. The fall will be spectacular.

At this point, what does she have to do to make her stans turn on her? Her handlers tell her what to say, she never makes a move without Jay-Z and Tina spinning it. She's seldom alone in public or at industry events. Even when that elevator camera caught Jay and Solange going at it, she stood there like a log. She's been programmed not to make mistakes. She has a team of mules guarding her every move. It would take an Act of Congress to make her fuck up!

Madonna peut-elle faire ça ? Certainement pas. Il faut posséder du respect et un sens de l'héritage et de l'humilité et une belle âme. Comme Céline.

[quote]At this point, what does she have to do to make her stans turn on her?

She needs to make a transphobic comment, or misgender a non-binary. She’ll be canceled ASAP

r541 she's too big to fail at this point. Beyonce has drastically reduced the number of interviews and interactions with the media as a whole in the last 10 years or so, so she greatly minimizes her chances for a fuck up. Her publicists probably have very little to worry about because she just pays the media dust now. Janet Jackson did a similar media black out for years after the Superbowl and again after Michael died.

She needs a takedown a la Peter Finch in NETWORK or Andy Griffith in A FACE IN THE CROWD.

Yes, I am older.

AND GET OFF MY LAWN

[quote]she's too big to fail at this point. Beyonce has drastically reduced the number of interviews and interactions with the media as a whole in the last 10 years or so, so she greatly minimizes her chances for a fuck up. Her publicists probably have very little to worry about because she just pays the media dust now. Janet Jackson did a similar media black out for years after the Superbowl and again after Michael died.

And where’s Janet Jackson now?? Her last album fell off the charts after one week. And her latest tour and Vegas residency were canceled due to low sales. “Too big to fail”??!! Okay, sure Jan(et).

r546 = bored and trying to rile up Janbot, gurl stop 😁

R535: what’s the one Celine album you like/have?

Janet was blacked out by the media. Nobody cares what Janet is doing for almost two decades now. She was done dirty after the superbowl, but she was neither talented or dynamic enough to ever recover from it either. Listening to Janet speak? Beyonce is Toni Morrison compared to Janet.

Nobody really cares what Beyonce has to say either. We understand that she communicates through her music and imagery - her always surprising ethereal, direct, rock, soul, pop, Trap, Rap and superhuman performances. Beyonce is completely capable of giving interviews and speaking. She proves it all the time. There is nothing wrong with her. She's sincere and shy, but funny and in on the joke about her too. Her image is that she is too good and perfect to be real. And yet she is. The only problem with Bey is that she is perfect. She works all day and night to be Beyonce. And Beyonce is a great recording artist, visual artist, cultural icon and live performer. Wife, mother, STAR.

She faltered a bit with the Lion King song but is always best when she is inventing something new. New doesn't mean not derivative. Beyonce loves a challenge. Ain't nothing she can't do. I still wish they had remade A Star is Born with her more than a decade ago, as originally planned. She would have won an Oscar to go with all her other accolades and awards.

[quote] Beyonce is Toni Morrison compared to Janet.

Wow, no. It's the other way around. Janet doesn't sound dumb in interviews at all. She can at least make a whole sentence without looking like she's struggling.

OK, on second thought, I will say neither Janet nor Beyonce is as dumb as Britney Spears. Then again, who is?

It doesn't occur to the persecutors, but maybe Beyonce stopped giving interviews because so many people criticized and made fun of her country accent and un diva like way of speaking? She's fine and real and spontaneous. Animated. And yes, political. But something about her slow drawl and unclear consonants make people make fun of her. Because she is so FIERCE on stage. She's smart, like a few others to separate the "diva monster" on stage from the woman on earth. So neither seem quite real to some people. Dumb people.

Janet Jackson, like Michael and LaToya and the others, has a lovely speaking voice. Very soft and precise. She's never uttered a single word of sincerity in her life. Janet is both DUMB and a manipulator. Not impossible when you control everything around you and who you speak too. Beyonce is tightly controlled, but when she talks, she's being herself. Nothing about her life has been ordinary, but she's real. A nice woman who's suffered a bit too. WOKE.

Formation is the single greatest thing that Bey has done and that's saying alot. She changed the course of history.

[quote]maybe Beyonce stopped giving interviews because so many people criticized and made fun of her country accent and un diva like way of speaking? She's fine and real and spontaneous. Animated. And yes, political.

Beyoncé is robotic and fake as fuck.

Except that she's neither, R553.

This one r548.

Janet is articulate and funny in interviews. So was Whitney even on crack. Beyoncé isn't articulate neither is Katy Perry or Miley Cyrus. But Beyoncé avoids putting her foot in her mouth like the latter two. Some people aren't good at interviews and they may be smart but it's really a skill. Beyoncé isn't really educated and unlike Madonna, Whitney and Janet who had become famous in their adult years and her time to self-educate them in ways. Beyoncé on the other hand had her whole life directed for her. The song "Pretty Hurts" probably was semi-autobiographical

Like Bey needed to hype Glastonbury? Nah. But she did this interview. Beyonce and Piers Morgan are not many people's way to spend 45 minutes. But stop the lies that she is fake or illiterate or unable to speak for herself. She did and she does and it's her honest truth. The DL posters who say otherwise are racist and misogynist. You don't have to like Beyonce or her product, but stop attacking the woman for being beautiful, talented and successful.

Of course Pretty Hurts was autobiographical R556. Beyonce is a real woman. It's one of her best creations. Not one of her best songs. Like most artists her work became more truthful in time, and a bit less popular.

Beyoncé isn’t “for” white people, according to her fans. So white people need to stop patronizing this dark cunt.

I'd be hard pressed to name one song besides that Single Ladies, which I switched off as soon as I heard the first part. Same with Janet Jackson. Britney, I can name two.

Well then, R559 - why are you here?

Why are you troll? You're neither gay, nor male. You appear to be a racist homophobe though. Be gone.

Fuck Y'all and all y'all R561. I'm gay, black, handsome; a fine musician, singer, and KING. I'm the troll who spoils your daily enjoyment of racist hate speech. Fuck y'all.

Or you'll be gone.

Shoo, hon. Now continue ranting and raving and lying, straight frau. You're dismissed.

Please don't get the folks who dislike Beyonce for her image and overratedness mixed up with the racists ragging on her for her skin color, please! Some of the white sissies here are buying their race cards from Hallmark.

I'm black and old school - Phyllis Hyman, Stephanie Mills, Anita Baker, Randy Crawford, Angela Bofill, Pattis Austin and Labelle, Regina Belle, Jody, some Janet and Diana and of course Whitney. I could name more. I just don't think that Bey measures up to them. I don't.

Don't forget Donna Summer r564

I love them all R564. But you forgot Gladys Knight.

R564 I actually love the real old school. The Platters, The Ink Spots, real old stuff but Chaka is great as well as Anita Baker. What happened to her?

Anita Baker basically retired.

R565 and r566, I said that I could name more...but yeah, them too. And how could I forget Chaka? Sorry about that!!!

But my point is, Bey can't hold a candle to them vocally. YMMV and alla that shit, but I stand by my opinion.

Gaga has outsold Madonna, Whitney and Celine in the US.

Celine is not even in the Top 12 biggest-selling female artists in the US. Her success came mainly from Europe. Whitney is about to fall to #8 on the all-time US list, but she's still above Madonna, who's fallen all the way down to #9. Mariah Carey is ahead of Whitney, Celine and Madonna.

Female artists with the most certified sales in history in the United States:

#1. Rihanna - 224M

#2. Taylor Swift - 190M

#3. Nicki Minaj - 129M

#4. Mariah Carey - 123M

#5. Katy Perry - 122M

#6. Lady Gaga - 104M

#7. Whitney Houston - 89M

#8. Ariana Grande - 85M

#9 Madonna-84.6M

#10 Beyonce-80.8M

#11 Barbra Streisand-80.4M

[quote]I'm the troll who spoils your daily enjoyment of racist hate speech. Fuck y'all.

and you realize that trolls can be blocked?

r570 sales meant a lot more before downloading, when people had to get off their asses and go to a store to buy music.

Madonna is one of the few who sold incredibly well, had consistent popularity that spanned three decades and had a great influence on pop culture and music. Gaga, Rihanna and Beyoncé are no doubt pop culture icons but they aren't on the level of influence or worldwide impact as Madonna. That said, Madonna is a joke today and it's her absolutely fault that people under the age of 25 aren't aware of her influence or impact. She didn't protect her legacy well.

What I want to ask of R564 and everyone is - Why is Beyonce so continually singled out on threads of Datalounge, weekly and for years? You can say she doesn't measure up to the old time greats, but that's not why she generates so much hate and discussion here. And if you really know anything about the technicalities of singing, Bey would be one of the last modern artists to criticize. So I guess my question is rhetorical. Of course there are black people who dislike Beyonce. But they are not the ones who start these threads every week for a decade. WHY is THAT racist fuck allowed to continue?

We celebrate all those other female artists all the time. I posted about 8 songs on a thread about Bettye Lavette a while back. The thread had about 24 posts. We still love every song.

Beyonce is part of the best selling female stars arguments. Pointless to me. I can't stand Lady Gaga, but the bitch can sing. And has sold a lot of records.

The Beyonce hate is racially motivated AND because she has such a sexual stage presence. Simple as that. Ancient white f@gs have a hard time with her. She's fierce but not humble. She's country but not a movie of the week. She's part of a successful girl group and even more famous as a solo artist, but she's not Miss Ross. She's not Tina Turner either - that's true. I was 2 years old when Tina had her comeback. The eldergays are always reliving their disco gloryhole years on this site. So many can't hide their resentment that black people are now prominent in mainstream arts and culture.

People slagged on Toni Braxton on this thread too. Not everyone who sings well becomes a legend. Phyllis Hyman, Deniece Williams, Jody Watley, the great Jill Scott and Lisa Fischer are footnotes.

Beyonce is already a legend. She isn't the greatest. Only one person can have that title.

**********PART 2 IS HERE! ********

Anyone using "ancient fags" be they black or white is not gay.

That's the troll who calls everybody 'ancient white fags.' He's a mentally ill shitstain.

Ancient white f@gs are the hallmark and lifeline of Datalounge. Thankfully they are dying off. Everyone feels that. Fag is no more pejorative than the words permitted and weaponized here everyday. Against women, lesbians, trans, black men and all POC.

Y'all don't like the word queer either. Many men and women of my age prefer the word queer to G A Y. Gay is so G A Y. It causes some eldergays PTSD, I guess. Queer it's a good word, because it's inclusive. Everyone knows that. Not all older gay white men are ancient white F*G*. Of course not. Why are you so offended R577?

Also - why do you post so many scat thread scenarios and use the word shit in every post R577? I thought you were banned from this site.

^^Dude you're almost 40. You're practically an eldergay yourself. And you're clinically insane.

R574, Madonna is slagged (and appreciated) on DL more than any other diva.

Why would he be banned R578? Why aren't you?

Cuz I'm popular bitch. He's that nutjob that keeps posting from multiple devices day and night. As in the same guy as you R581. You're not funny but hilarious. You want me to copy and paste your hundreds and thousands of insane, racist, misogynist posts? I got a man and a career fool. Everyone knows who you are. Get the fuck away from me. Or you will be gone again.

And why ARE you out here slagging on Queen Beyonce, all day and night? Are Tori Amos and Jessica Lange dead?

What posts would those be sweetie? You obviously don't know how to use DL and I've never been "gone". Go ahead, try and dig up those "racist", "misogynistic" posts you accuse me of. That "nutjob" is not me either.....god, you really are stupid.

🍿👀 fight fight fight!

He's the black version of that Ansher guy r583. A useless shitposter who contributes nothing to DL.

"he" is a fraud. I smell a LSA frau.

Ah, there's that word "shit" again. The thing at R585 can't stop itself. Scat troll. Racist.

^^You're full of shit, you insane freak. But it will be nice to see you banned.

Why do you follow that poster so hard R588? I see you post

[quote] your the ancient white fags troll

after way too many ordinary posts on DL. You sound a bit crazy tbh, R588.

You did post over 200 times on that John Mulaney thread. On ONE thread. I think your nemisis has a point. Does that make you the scat boy too, ew.

I liked Beyonce. In 2012. DL trolls like R588 don't realize they sound like all the other crazy people on the internet posting hate about celebrities who don't give a fuck?

crazy

R589 is "that poster". Someone be crazy and it's you.

r589 there's no limit to how many times people can post. And your ancient white fags shit was all over that thread.

Ha, But you posted 200 times! On one thread. With the same accusations to some other people about the old white gays shit.

I never used those words. I quote posted you R588 and R591. Watch who you accuse out here. Your sanity is already in question.

You've posted more than 70 times on this thread too. And more than twelve times to accuse someone. You're nuts.

I don't know who Janbot is, but I don't think he's the one who is crazy. R591 is dangerous and mentally ill troll. Isolate the posts of R591 and see. Then go on the John Mulaney thread and see his obsessions in full force. R591 sounds like an old white gay man for sure. Don't have to be a profiler to figure that one out. He slobbers.

[quote]there's no limit to how many times people can post.

Yeah there is. You're blocked.

But blocking people still means they can post, you just can't see them but, by all means, block whom you want. You seem to think it's the same as banning. It's not. As said above, I don't think you understand how DL works.

Who cares about banning you. I just don't want to see you. You think your important old man? No.

But like roaches you come back. You have many devices that you post from. That is why they can't keep you banned. This is common knowlege on DL I think?

Post all you want - you have no value. We are all sad for you. Don't antagonize the ones who let you be.

You're projecting, gurl. I've clocked you posting from different devices. Why accuse others of what you do?

The end is near. For this cunt ^

F&F

^^^^I've already FF'd you too cunt.

r592 you've posted dozens of times in this thread alone.

and WWing your own posts is the epitome of pathetic.

[quote]You think your important old man? No.

You're almost 40. You're almost an eldergay yourself.

I'm not 40. Ha. You don't know anything about me. I don't think I've posted my age here. Not on this thread. I am younger than Beyonce and at least 35 years younger than you pa @ R600.

How much meth have you smoked tonight? You're already bipolar. It maybe feels good but this is not good for you. Not after 70. Be safe and fuck off cunt.

Ban R600. Datalounge. NOW.