'' Ava Gardner was a WHORE, I refused to fuck her, and that cost me the academy award'' claims beautiful Robert Stack.

You are just jealous that a dead woman has had more game in 1 hour than you in your entire lifetime.

She was a mean old cunt, but I fucked her anyway.

I thought she was tremendous in Grease.

I watched that video and Ava Gardner's name wasn't mentioned. Where did you get that quote? How could Stack not fucking Gardner have any thing to do with how the academy members voted for the Oscar?

It's somewhere in the series , maybe not part one. Bob says that after he starred in the John Wayne produced movie about the bullfighter, Ava invited him in her suite and appeared in a sheer négligé, informing him that ' a couple of her friends from Switzerland were on their way to join them, and they were terrific'. Stack claimed fever and ran away. Next thing you know Gardner vetoed him for' 'the sun also rises' ' telling the studio' 'anyone but him' '. The studio were furious that he had upset Ava and suspended him. His agent tried to plead that he was up for an academy award and it was bad publicity, and they replied ' ' forget it, he won't win' '. Ava was a cunt.

No idea if he mentions it in the video, but this gossip site does:

[quote]The reason, Stack insisted, he didn’t get to co-star with Ava Gardner is because he refused to co-star with her before - in a fourway at her LA home. It had happened a few years earlier. Hewas eating in a Hollywood restaurant, talking (loudly) about his matador experiences while shooting The Bullfigher and The Lady.A nearby Ava, something of a matador groupie, joined the chat, invited him home, slipped into something comfortable and talked about some new friends,a couple into foursomes - perhaps she should invite them over...? Stack made his excuses and left. Ava Gardner never forgave himand made sure the Sun never rose on him.

Also R1, it's true, but not fucking Robert Stack, the second most beautiful man in Hollywood is pretty sweet revenge. Lana, OTOH, SCORED !

Stack was really good in Written On the Wind. Finally got to see it again recently.

He was. Should have won. I don't know who he was up against that year, I think Anthony Quinn, who had a tiny part in some lame movie, Something like 5 min screen time playing van Gogh's brother. Stack was clearly shunned over the Gardner incident. He was also EXCELLENT and super charming in ' the gift of love' with Bacall, again. Just managing chemistry with that hag is oscar deserving. (she was younger than he in that one and looks like his grandmother. What a dozen packs of cigs a day do to a gal)

Ava was beautiful, poor taste in men but beautiful nevertheless.

she was a cunt because she loved dick?

She was mulatto trash from Nawth Carlahna!

Robert Stack came from a rich family and spent his first few years in Hollywood sharing an apartment with Gene Raymond, the gay husband of Jeanette MacDonald.....

No R11 she was a cunt because she used her power to hurt someone who wouldn't fuck her. That makes her a Weinstein type. Robert Stack loved dick too, and that makes Him a cookie cupcake. Exhibit 1 = JFK.

Ava was bi as well. Was everybody fucking everybody in Hollywood during the Golden Years?

[quote] Was everybody fucking everybody in Hollywood during the Golden Years?

More like the Golden Shower Years

[quote] Robert Stack came from a rich family and spent his first few years in Hollywood sharing an apartment with Gene Raymond, the gay husband of Jeanette MacDonald.....

That explains declining Ava's offer of a foursome. Poor guy. Did manage to produce two children when he finally married when he was nearly 40. Though I guess there were always turkey basters.

R8

I loved him in Unsolved Mysteries!

Stack's performance in Written on the Wind was over the top and silly (but then so was the whole movie). Don't get me wrong, I've watched it a few times and always enjoy myself, but that's because it's a campy hoot!

He was more pretty boy than actor (and Ava was more glamour gal than actress), and his rejection of Ava in her prime makes me wonder about his sexuality. I don't know too many (any?) straight guys who would fail to hit that.

Ava was quite beautiful and sexy, but her looks didn't last.

[quote]Ava was more glamour gal than actress

I think she gets a lot of love on DL precisely because she was a gorgeous, boozy, promiscuous party girl. She was a good but never great actress who made a couple of interesting movies.... and a whole lot of crap. She had famous friends and dated famous men.

R19

Maybe it the army of crabs crawling all over her that scared him off?

R19

He didn't want to cheat on his stewardess girlfriend stationed in Europe. Besides, his heart always belonged to his mother.

A 1000 year old guy in Palm Springs - now deceased - used to be a cab driver in LA. Ava Gardner would call him directly to have him pick up booze and deliver it to her house. He said she was always drunk and sloppily seductive.

Stack sounds like he was either gay or a Princess Tinymeat, or perhaps both.

I swear I thought Larry King asked Elizabeth Taylor who she thought was the most beautiful woman in Hollywood she had ever seen. I'm pretty sure Taylor said something like, "I'll always remember when Ava Gardner first was around the studios. The first time I saw her, it took my breath away, she was so gorgeous",

or, words to that effect.

I’m sure it’s true just surprised a woman of that era had such power. Unlike Garbo in the 20’s, 30’s and Crawford in the 30’s 40’s when the film industry was such a world influence and new, by the 50’s and post war, women were relegated to, being mothers, housewives and men’s sex play things. Television happened. Cinema wasn’t quite so popular. Probably every woman in Hollywood only made it if she fucked or sucked any cock that demanded it.Surprised she could influence the whole of Hollywood. Veto a part in a film out of spite, sure. But a whole career? She too had some rough periods work wise throughout her career. If he was well know for preferring cock during that time, that could have influenced a lot of people against him. But like her or not how anyone can say she wasn’t beautiful. If she wasn’t, Hollywood would have thrown her away without a second thought. Stunningly beautiful totally untrained she turned out to be not a bad actress. She wasn’t picked because she was a good actress. She sat behind me in a restaurant in London in the early eighties a few years before she died. I recognised the voice turned around. Even old, their was no denying the reminder of what must have been great, great physical beauty.

Robert Stack was gay?

r5 Yes, a cunt, but props for flipping the script.

Stefanie Powers said Ava Gardner was the most sensual being she's ever met. In her autobio she writes about watching Ava brush her hair and how sexy it was.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? The actresses had to put out to get ahead, why should the men be exempt? He knew the risk of saying no. You’ve got to play the game to win.

Also shows how unimportant the AAs are.

If you come from a rich family, why do you need a roommate?

Just friendship, I'm sure R31.

[quote]Robert Stack was gay?

Well...Robert was a very close friend of Miss Barbara Stanwyck

Wonder if he and Stanwyck's beautiful husband Robert Taylor were close?

Awe, sounds like some widdle body was rejected and had his widdle bittie tittie feelings hurt, tssk. So. What is he really saying here? Ava was just this big ole slut and would sleep with anyone, but not him? He was her line in the sand? Bahahahahaha! Straight men. They always show their rejection for all to see.

Ah yes: Robert Taylor's funeral was held at Forest Lawn Memorial Park Cemetery, in Glendale, California. Long-time friend Ronald Reagan (who was then the governor of California) eulogized Taylor. Among the mourners were Robert Stack, Van Heflin, Eva Marie Saint, Walter Pidgeon, Keenan Wynn, Mickey Rooney, George Murphy, Audrey Totter and Taylor's ex-wife Barbara Stanwyck.

Probably all Repugs. Wiki said Robert Stack was.

[quote] So. What is he really saying here? Ava was just this big ole slut and would sleep with anyone, but not him?

Are you mentally retarded?

R5, according to his Wikipedia entry, Stack claimed he lost the Academy Award because it was for a picture that he did on loan out from his studio, 20th Century Fox. Fox didn't want their players winning for work they did for rival studios so they block voted against him. Whatever the reason was for his loss, I think it takes a lot of gall for the loser to make such claims because a) it's purely conjecture, and b) the implication is the guy who won didn't deserve it. It's poor sportsmanship.

Thank God television didn't catch his reaction.

Bob Stack was bi. He was very pretty, and he was before the word "gay".

I could be generous to Ava. After all Bob Stack wouldn't touch her with a ten ft pole, and he'dld lick John's balls while John was fucking me...from behind

R40, another Darwin Porter fantasy.

[quote] Fox didn't want their players winning for work they did for rival studios so they block voted

I totally second that. Same reason why I lost to Hattie. Mr Warner didn't want his stars to win for another studio. I SHOULD'VE BEEN NOMINATED IN THE LEAD CATEGORY ANYWAY ( many people prefered Melanie, but they HAD to protect Vivien... I would've blown her off the water)

Where did he mention her being a whore? I didn’t see it.

R30 = Harvey Weinstein.

Ava Gardner around 1979.

The eyes are still striking but alcohol has done a number on her. She was in her 50s at the time.

[quote] another Darwin Porter fantasy.

I'm not so sure R42...You should check out "the bullfighter and the lady" . There is a bathhouse scene that's the gayest scene I've ever seen in a golden era movie and still quite risque for 2021..Just to think that John Wayne produced that. Must have been a lot of fapping in the editing room. Start around the 1:01:47 mark...HOT STUFF. Anyone remember the story of the old guy who owned a lodge way down in the valley, away from the gossip that had a few rooms to let ? His guests were exclusively Hollywood big shots who would bring their toyboys for "fishing trips" when they had an itch to scratch, the Fords, the Waynes, the Bogarts, the Coopers and other Taylors ? He knew to change the sheets and shut his mouth. Wayne had a stable of pretty boys that he would put in his movies, Clift, Stack, Hunter, Caan and so on. I'm sure Bob Stack was down to a "fishing trip" with the old boys more than once. Only stupid drunk Spencer Tracy would use Cukor's cottage, but then again he was too drunk to drive down the valley and had Katie to change the sheets for him

And several years later.... with a friend!

R48 this is like madame TUSSAUD? BUT WORSE ! EWwwwww Vivien leigh was clever. She took the emergency exit before being reduced to guest spots in Knots landing/the love boat and hanging out with the freaks.

R4, she talks about Ava in Part 10.

*He (Stack)

[quote] Was everybody fucking everybody in Hollywood during the Golden Years?

only during the Golden Years r15

Looking at r48's pic made me laugh that anybody back then could've thought that Michael Jackson had any sexual interest in women.

[quote] I’m sure it’s true just surprised a woman of that era had such power

Ava is credited for Frank's comeback, and even in the 60's, stars were stars. Natalie Wood single handedly built Robert Redford into stardom. Nobody wanted him. She imposed him in Daisy Clover and again in Property Condemned. Of course, when she needed a lift in the 80's that POS turned her down.Vivien leigh vetoed Alain Delon for Roman spring. and so on

Stack described Ava as "brutal." And I remember reading Ben Gazzara's memoirs in which he wrote about staying clear of Ava because he kenw too many men who were destroyed by her.

In many ways Ava and Elizabeth Taylor were cut from the same cloth--devastatingly beautiful women but spoiled rotten. They teased, taunted, and played with men's hearts simply because they could. Oftentimes they took things a little too far just to see how far they can go, but this sometimes resulted in the men beating them senseless. It was a very sadomasochistic game, but I guess that's how these women wielded power.

OP, if you're going to post a video, can you please say at what time mark the relevant comment was?

[quote] they took things a little too far just to see how far they can go, but this sometimes resulted in the men beating them senseless

puff puff did you ring ?

And then Ava fucked Robert Evans during filming.

Was this the role Stack lost out on?

Sorry R56, I wanted people to watch the whole thing, I confess. I love Bobby Stack, he's so pretty and distinguished. Any way, the Ava bit is in part 10, but you can see Bobby scantily clad and sweating at the bath house with the boys (and handsy too) around the 1:01:47 mark in my R47 post

Ava was stunningly gorgeous, but the booze and cigs aged her fast. She looked haggard when she was still in her thirties. In the linked pictures where she was only in her fifties, she looked like she was in her seventies.

The booze and cigs also did a number on Gene Tierney and Lana Turner. They got hard-looking and haggard prematurely, as well.

[quote] Did manage to produce two children when he finally married when he was nearly 40. Though I guess there were always turkey basters.

I was always under the impression that Stack's children were adopted. It's interesting that his marriage occurred just around the time it looked like his career would become more prestigious.

No, Ava still looks great to people today (to people who remember who she is). You know whose beauty hasn't aged well? Jean Harlow.

I voted for Don Murray in "Bus Stop" that year.

It was weird how he kept digging his fingers into his face (under his nose) while talking about Ava.

R60 "I think your whole life shows in your face and you should be proud of that" -Lauren-de-Cunt ,rough looking 50 something, actually 28yo in Gentlemen prefer blondes, would disagree with that. BTW, I thought it was widely known that Stack and Rock Hudson fucked like jackrabbits on heat during the filming of "written on the wind" and liked it so much that they did another together, still with Dorothy malone, but without Bacall this time, very aptly called "the tarnished angels"

R58 I think he was up for the Tyrone Power part.

Ava was a whore after my own heart. I would have been no different.

He pings to me now in this clip. Never noticed before.

R58 he pings to the moon and back in EVERYTHING

I doubt that Ava Gardner at that time had - or at any time had - that much influence over ALL of the voting members of the Academy.

Stack lost because he gave a bad performance and was too needy - in a town full of bad performances and needy people.

He's so campy in "Unsolved Mysteries." Would you guys say he pings in "Unsolved Mysteries"?

R67 = Lana Turner, posting from the brighter world

Until now, I've actually never thought about Robert Stack's sexuality. I watched Unsolved Mysteries religiously when I was a kid, so I'm definitely familiar with who he was, he's just one of those celebs you never wonder about.

R71 even as a kid, watching Eliott Ness, I knew he was gay. Gorgeous and gay. He was essentially a 40's Tab Hunter, less beautiful but more talented

R73 Now do you understand why you were just so drawned to him ? it's called "hiding in plain sight"

R66, No, he was up for the Mel Ferrer part. Stack was never really a leading male superstar in films, so he wouldn't have been offered the plum role Jake Barnes.

R70 Oh really ? Sinatra's gurl ? ever heard of a little lobby called "the mafia" ? and BTW where is MY oscar ?

His plastic surgery is amazing - you can't even tell he's had work done.

He gave Deanna Durbin her first screen kiss. And he was very handsome opposite Carole Lombard in the original TO BE OR NOT TO BE.

R60 [quote] Ava was stunningly gorgeous, but the booze and cigs aged her fast. She looked haggard when she was still in her thirties. In the linked pictures where she was only in her fifties, she looked like she was in her seventies.

Which helps explain why in 1985, at the age of 63, Gardner played the mother of William Devane's character on Knots Landing. Devane was 46 at the time but looked even older.

The gift of Love is really worth a watch. In the first scene with Bacall, Stack is simply irresistible. Bacall tries to show some warmth and maternal instinct in this one, and even though she's scary and makes Ruth Gordon in RB look like mary poppins at times, she manages to be quite touching in the end. The scene where she falls down the stairs is hilarious. I've played it several times.

[quote] Stack was never really a leading male superstar in films

I made sure he wasn't

R11 I seem to ask people that question everyday.

[quote] Natalie Wood single handedly built Robert Redford into stardom.

She also had an affair with Redford, something that's been hush hush lest it ruin his reputation as a Family Man.

[quote]In many ways Ava and Elizabeth Taylor were cut from the same cloth--devastatingly beautiful women but spoiled rotten. They teased, taunted, and played with men's hearts simply because they could

With their HEARTS?

Stack's natural hair color was blond, as seen in THE BULLFIGHTER AND THE LADY, but he dyed it dark from the mid-50s on, I suppose to make him look more rugged and macho. I loved him as Eliott Ness in THE UNTOUCHABLES.

Robert Stack played the Dana Andrews role in the highly anticipated television production of "Laura" (1968), starring that winsome thespian, Princess Lee Bouvier Radziwiłł, DL fave Arlene Francis, George Sanders, and Farley Granger. Granger, as you know, had a brief affair with Stack's nemesis, Ava Gardner.

[quote] His plastic surgery is amazing - you can't even tell he's had work done.

IMO, his upper eyelid lift is obvious. Not as bad as Kenny Rogers', but noticeable.

In the interview, he stressed that he had a 24-hour flu. He kind of made it seem like he would have fucked Ava Gardner, but for the sudden onset of his flu. The real story was probably that he wouldn't have fucked her, flu or not.

[quote] She also had an affair with Redford

She (Natalie Wood) also had an affair with (insert anyone's name who was an actor/producer/stuntman/crew member/stand-in/extra in Hollywood between 1950 and1981 here)

corrected that for you R83

[quote]some lame movie

Lust For Life wasn't a lame movie. Written On The Wind is a totally different kind of movie. I'm surprised Stack didn't win the Oscar for it, as well, though Quinn was great, too.

What part could Robert Stack (!) have been up for in The Sun Also Rises? The lead? He wasn't a major star. Tyrone Power was one of the biggest stars in the world, and a friend of Zanuck. Not the Errol Flynn role? He was playing an Englishman, and he had a sort-of English accent. And was great in it. That leaves the Mel Ferrer or Eddie Albert roles. Was it one of them? They were supporting parts. The only one I can see him possibly doing is the Ferrer role.

We had an Ava Gardner thread not that long ago, and wasn't it the same person claiming her 'beauty' (in quotation marks) was very much of her time? What kind of bullshit is that? She was a sexy, gorgeous woman, one of the biggest sex symbols and considered one of the great beauties of her time. If you saw her in Pandora, The Snows Of Klimanjaro, Mogambo, The Little Hut...and still thought she wasn't a beauty? You're a damn fool.

R89, no it was not me in that thread, ad sorry, but I don't like her. She was alluring and had a great body but her face doesn't do it for me. I prefer Lana, Vivien, grace, Liz, Natalie, Bacall , almost any famous beauty of that era. Same with Rita Hayworth. All I see is make up.

[quote] Written On The Wind is a totally different kind of movie. I'm surprised Stack didn't win the Oscar for it

That I agree with. He was surprisingly good in a bipolar role for the era, and should've won.

R89, see R76.

[quote] still thought she wasn't a beauty? You're a damn fool.

Please, you don't want to be that person. This is a well behaved thread so far. You admire Ava Gardner,'s beauty, I don't. No need for insults

Ava Gardner was beautiful in her prime, and would be considered beautiful today, by anyone's standard. I can believe Ava disliking Robert Stack for that reason, and not wanting to work with him, but I can't believe that she had the power to keep him from winning an Oscar. I don't think someone like Robert Stack ever came upon a woman so non-apologetically ambitious, sexual, and assertive as Ava Gardner, and some people have an aversion to women like that.

R63 Oh that was YOU! thank you buddy

R90 "All I see is makeup" -- you don't see makeup when you look at Lana Turner? (Who I also like.) She had it slathered on with a trowel, and fake eyebrows. At least later in the 1950s. I mean you can have your opinion. But Ava was also very, very likeable, for me. More down to earth than many other stars, and seemed like a good egg. Plus she was usually cited as the most beautiful woman in the world (long before Liz Taylor) so refusing to admit she was a beauty just seems contrarian.

The other thing I like about Ava was she usually didn't overdress, in real life. She wore plain shirts and blouses, or sweater sets, a lot of the the time. She could be glamorous when she wanted to be, but she didn't need to be. She dressed modestly, not in an overly sexy manner. It was refreshing. She had good taste in clothes. (Unlike Taylor, for ex.)

"Stack sounds like he was either gay or a Princess Tinymeat, or perhaps both."

No kidding.

And if there's any truth to this story, which I doubt, his refusal was probably far less polite than he thinks it was. Gardner was not known to be bad-tempered or vindictive, if she really did refuse to work with him again then the likeliest explanation is that he was unpleasant to her.

R93 I wasn't talking about you. Just a generalization. I mean you called her a mean cunt. Is it your rule that it's ok to call her a mean cunt as long as you don't call someone in the thread a mean cunt? Or what?

[quote]Gardner was not known to be bad-tempered or vindictive, if she really did refuse to work with him again then the likeliest explanation is that he was unpleasant to her.

She never worked with him at all

(quote] Gardner was not known to be bad-tempered or vindictive

R97 She stood me up with Frank's stupid coconut cake! And nobody ever called ME unpleasant ! at least not to my face. or did they ?

OP: Fascinating interview broken up into 10 YouTube section. Take the time to watch them all. They are a great account of the Golden Age of Hollywood. Watch them all. They’re fascinating and time goes by very quickly.

Robert Stack talks quite a lot about Judy Garland, Lana Turner and Ava Gardner and the studio system in general. He says he got the flu which is the reason he couldn’t have sex with Ava even though she was attempting to seduce him. She took it as a serious offense that Stack had to back off, but he said he was really sick. Needless to say, Ava held a grudge.

R90 I am not saying that she was not a beauty, that would be ridiculous, I think she was stunning in "the killers", but hit the wall pretty fast, had a nose job that was unecessary, and I prefer lana Turner's softer, more wholesome looks. Also there is something about Gardner that I find off putting. Her brand of beauty doesn't move me, but then again, I much, much prefer Robert Stack's brand of beauty, I'm more into the dick business if you will. I don't really see Ava's beauty the way many people do. Same with Rita, or Crawford.

I watched an interview with Stewart Granger where he mentioned Ava came on to him but he was being faithful to his wife (Jean Simmons) so he turned her down. They made two movies together so apparently she was less vindictive to some people than to others...

R98 yes, I don't like threads where posters insult each other, not saying that you did, but anyway, I'm sure Ava won't mind what I think of her, or call her on DL

[quote] And if there's any truth to this story, which I doubt, his refusal was probably far less polite than he thinks it was. Gardner was not known to be bad-tempered or vindictive, if she really did refuse to work with him again then the likeliest explanation is that he was unpleasant to her.

"I wouldn't eat your pussy if it was full of oxygen and I was suffocating!" Was that not demure enough?

Give the girl a break - she was married to Mickey Rooney.

Rock Hudson and Bod Stack had great chemistry in "written on the wind" and it's obvious that they could barely keep their hands off each other. The fight scene is pretty telling if I remember correctly.

yummy

[quote] Stewart Granger mentioned Ava came on to him but he was being faithful to his wife (Jean Simmons) so he turned her down

Stack takes no responsibility for his response to Miss Gardner. I went to her place and then didn't handle himself like an adult.

He had options, and only needed to use one of the following to avoid career issues:

1. But, Ava, I only want to be with you and that's the way it's going to happen.

2. I'm queer, baby. Sorry. I thought you knew. So how about another scotch?

Instead, he embarrassed her. For all we know she wanted a bisexual tangle and we booking a cute guy with a girl was something she heard he'd appreciate.

Robert Stack married model-actress Rosemarie Bowe when he was 37 and she was 24. Although 37 isn't old by today's standards, that's a little late in those days to be surrendering his bachelorhood, wasn't it? Was he attached to someone else before Rosemarie to keep the gossips at bay?

Rosmarie was certainly a beauty.

Ava Gardner never rose too far above her raisin', which was poor white trash from Grabtown, NC. She may have had fame and fortune, but she was always white trash.

R111 he had a studio fauxmance with Taylor in the late 40's, around the time they were also 69ing while JFK was fucking them both (which Liz probably told Ava, hence the "friends from Switzerland" fiasco)

With JFK as far back as 1941. If a picture ever screamed, "HEY ! WE JUST HAD A 3SOME WITH ELIZABETH TAYLOR!"...

No sexual energy at R113. Ugh.

[quote]I watched an interview with Stewart Granger where he mentioned Ava came on to him but he was being faithful to his wife (Jean Simmons) so he turned her down. They made two movies together so apparently she was less vindictive to some people than to others...

R103. If you take the story on face value as Robert Stack tells it, Ava may not have forgiven him for declining sex with her because he genuinely got sick--had the flu. Stack was not married at the time, so Ava perhaps thought being sick was not a good enough excuse. On the other hand, Stewart Granger was married at the time to Jean Simmons when Ava was willing to have sex with him. Ava likely forgave Granger because he was being faithful to his wife, more or less a legitimate excuse. Ava may also not have wanted Granger as much as she may have wanted Stack, so she wasn't vindictive to Granger, but the claws came out when it came to Stack.

R115 caption this then

[quote} Ava may also not have wanted Granger as much as she may have wanted Stack

I feel you, Ava

Robert Stack (born Charles Langford Modini Stack, January 13, 1919 – May 14, 2003); 84 years old when he dies.

He was married only once--as was his wife, Rosemarie Bowe. They were married 1956-2003 when he died.

She died in 2019, never remarried. They must have have been very devoted to each other.

On the cover shots for each of the episodes of the Robert Stack YT videos he looks like an old poof with 3 lbs. of makeup on. He looked perfectly normal in the actual vides.

Was it Ava who slept with Tony Franciosa when he was married to Shelley Winters, or was it Lauren Bacall? I can never keep up with Shelley's tales.

Robert Stack's wife:

Rosemarie Bowe Stack (born Rose Marie Bowe; September 17, 1932 – January 20, 2019) was an American model, best known for her appearances in several films in the 1950s. She dies at age 86.

Robert Stack was a stand up man.

It was Bacall, and she would call Shelley to ask why Tony was late. That woman was all class

[quote]hould have won. I don't know who he was up against that year, I think Anthony Quinn, who had a tiny part in some lame movie, Something like 5 min screen time playing van Gogh's brother. Stack was clearly shunned over the Gardner incident.

Gee if only there was an easy way to find out who he was nominated against.

Bob Stack came from a family of famous opera singers, and was trained as a singer, he only took up acting because he didn't have the voice. He was born in the US but raised in Italy until he was 6yo and the family returned to the US, didn't have much contact or knowledge of his father, and didn't speak a word of english. he was an ace shot, an outstanding sportsman, a beefcake model, a hottie and he age very nicely. HOT HOT DADDY

Ava drank whatever beauty she had away. There wasn't an actor alive who could play her father who actually looked older.

R125 I was shocked that Malone won an AA for her HORRIBLE performance in WOTW, which I think is the worst acting I have ever seen, but I see that Yul won over both James Dean and Laurence Olivier, so I'm reassured....the AA were always shit, then

Robert Stack first became quite famous as the young man who gave Deanna Durbin her first screen kiss in "First Love". He was very good-looking. Enjoyable film, too.

R121 Spencer Tracy had an epic meltdown because Vivien Leigh once called his WIFE to ask HER for the key to Cukor's cottage ! RMAOTFL ! He thought that was "insensitive" ...(as opposed to fucking any ass that moved in said cottage ?)

He was the lead in John Paul Jones, with bette Davis AND a baby Mia farrow

Like Robert Wagner, came from California money, never worked a day in their lives and was hired by the studios because of their looks.

I always thought Robert Stack was a contemporary of Rock Hudson and Charlton Heston, which was why it surprised me that he co-starred with the likes of Carole Lombard, Margaret Sullavan, and Frances Farmer, whose heyday were the 1930s, early '40s. Stack was more in the age range of Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas, but both those men got their start in films after WW2.

He explained Old Hollywood "was a lot of fun.". This seems to sum up what most actors from the period missed most after the end of the studio system. Like Stack said, they worked together, they played together, they danced together, etc. One felt part of an elite club.

And they all bonked each other.

[quote]She died in 2019, never remarried. They must have have been very devoted to each other.

R119, She was in her 70s old when he died, she died at age 86, I'd say she was "devoted" to her trust fund.

[quote]Ava drank whatever beauty she had away

Not to me!

She was still lovely even during her years in London.

R117

What on Earth is Robert Stack doing with Tony Curtis' hairpiece? Couldn't he afford his own?

I love Ava, but she was a messy messy drunk during her waning popularity, and hightailed it out of Spain with her reputation in tatters. A popular saying passed among the locals, "There is no man in Madrid who had not slept with Ava Gardner nor drunk in the same bar as Ernest Hemingway."

Disreputable legends grew around her: that she was permanently expelled from the Ritz for urinating on the lobby carpet after being denied entry for being drunk; that she answered the door drunk and naked when neighbors Juan Perón and Blas Piñar came knocking to complain about her late night parties. Perón called the Civil Guards practically every night to break up her noisy parties and even called upon Franco to intervene. When she finally departed Spain for London in 1967, her El Viso neighbors cheered and breathed sighs of relief.

She seemed to have lead a quieter life in London. Perhaps age diminished her energy for hard partying and drinking. Who knows.

I had Ava 3 ways but she turned ya down Bobby.

Honey I was a slut never a whore. Ask Howard.

Her maid's book is a great read. Love the stories she told about their time together in Spain.

Stack was in a big Broadway scandal back in the 80's ....

"There must always be a guardian to the Gate of Hell"

He talks a lot about Tony Curtis in these clips. Who was the top?

[quote]She seemed to have lead a quieter life in London. Perhaps age diminished her energy for hard partying and drinking. Who knows.

She had a bunch of health problems for years before she died. Like many actresses, she turned into a recluse in her later years.

The definitive Robert Stack scene

Not at all hypocritical for gay men to trash Ava for sleeping with a lot of men

All I know about Ava Gardner is that the scene in Earthquake at the end always irritated me.

A guy steps on her hand and it is so painful she lets go of the latter and plunges into the water? Sensitive fingers.

[quote] I always thought Robert Stack was a contemporary of Rock Hudson and Charlton Heston, which was why it surprised me that he co-starred with the likes of Carole Lombard, Margaret Sullavan, and Frances Farmer, whose heyday were the 1930s, early '40s. Stack was more in the age range of Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas, but both those men got their start in films after WW2.

Robert Stack was only four years older than Heston, six years older than Hudson. He was six years younger than Lancaster and three years younger than Douglas. So he was essentially a contemporary of both sets of actors, being almost exactly in between them.

While Stack did make one movie each with the actresses you list, he did so at a very young age (20-23) when he made several pictures at Universal from 1939-42. Then he joined the Navy and didn't make another movie until 1948, and it was in the post-war period that he found his greatest fame.

where in the interview does he talk about losing the Oscar?

(I don't want to listen to the whole thing.)

I listened to all parts of his interview. It was interesting and he’s very articulate.

Ava could have taken dicks up her minge, arse, mouth and ears all day long in front of Technicolor cameras for all I care, but what she did to Bobby was BRUTAL and quite inexcusable. Robert Stack was good people. Well. At least he was Hot.

R143 he had PTSD from the Gardner incident and turned into a drunken mess. Her bad

Ava was a bitter drunk from a very young age.

He mentioned going into the Army, wish thy would have talked about being a movie star and being well known in the service.

[quote] being well known in the service

Well, he couldn't really talk about THAT could he ?

"Movie star give good heads"

[quote] He talks a lot about Tony Curtis in these clips. Who was the top?

Barbara Stanwyck.

Isn't anyone familiar with Ava's abusive relationship in the 1960s with drunken George C Scott? He was a worse drunk than she was and beat her up regularly.

R160 That's Karma for you Bitch

R160, George C. Scott was horrible. He was between his 2 marriages to Colleen Dewhurst, and he was obsessed with Ava, stalking her from city to city. She tried to flee because he was nuts, but for some reason, she would give in and he would beat her black and blue all over again. Ava called Sinatra for assistance, and he called his goons to set Scott straight. I don't know what Scott's behavior was like around Dewhurst, but she took him back!

It's really hard to imagine ANYbody beating up Colleen Dewhurst.

R162 Scott was really ugly IMO. I watched "PETULIA" during lockdown, only movie I ever saw him in, he was okay, but nothing to write home about, a very ugly in the face. Not very charismatic either. I hear he turned down his AA, what a pretentious prick. But he accepted his golden globes and emmys. Ridiculous.

I met Ben Gazzarra and his daughter Danya once.

R165 was he very sexy ? did you try anything ? did he ping ?

Ben Gazzara in "Anatomy of a Murder" was so badass and dangerous, that I fell in lust.

Ben Gazzara was a really solid actor. He was great in everything I've seen him in.

I've only seen him with Christina Ricci in Buffalo 66 in fact. Why was he never a big leading man ? He had the looks and talent

[quote] I met Ben Gazzarra and his daughter Danya once.

What was Ben G. like?

I think Gardner was the most beautiful studio star to come out of Hollywood (the second being Grace Kelly.) While Gardner wasn’t a super adept actress, she at least came across on screen as having an interesting personality, which is something.

Liz and Lana just seemed brain dead.

A couple years ago large excerpts from Richard Burton's diary were posted. He mentioned during the filming of Night of the Iguana Peter o'Toole dropped by the location and they and Ava had a threesome. John Huston must have been too busy.

You should have asked Ben G what Audrey Hepburn was like between the sheets right in front of his spawn. He deserved this at least..

[quote] the most beautiful studio star to come out of Hollywood

Yes, many people share that opinion. I think Vivien Leigh was. at least in the 40's. I also prefer Bacall Kelly was a stunner too. I don't agree that Taylor seemed brain dead, she's not my favorite, but there is something very warm about her, almost motherly, and Lana was charming. I don't know why people say she was so bad here, I saw her in "the postman" and "madame X" and she was really very good. especially in madame X. Her performance was all over the place, but I felt it was more the director's fault, She certainly gave him a lot to work with, and he should have helped her be more focused. The scenes where she fucks a random in the sketchy bar is superb. It was definitely an AA nom performance IMO, and in a good way

^ thank you for this. I'm going to search for Madame X online.

[quote] You should have asked Ben G what Audrey Hepburn was like between the sheets

Hepburn was a whore. Not that it's a bad thing to be, but I don't know why she has that saintly, prim and proper image. She fucked all of her co-stars, including when she was married.

R175 expect a big melodrama, but she's terrific in it, as the fallen creature, and there 's a very sweet, very effective young Keir Dullea in a surprisingly tender performance. He always looks like a lizard otherwise, but not in this one

R169, Ben G. lost two movie roles that he originated on the Broadway stage to more conventionally handsome actors, 'Brick' in "Cat On a Hot Tin Roof" to Paul Newman, and 'Johnny' in "A Hatful of Rain" to Don Murray. He received critical acclaim for "The Strange One" and "Anatomy of a Murder," but after that he was in one flop after another. He went into series television in the '60s with "Arrest and Trial" and "Run for Your Life," then did the Cassavetes films, but he never really ignited as a box office star.

He lost ONE Oscar? Amateur.

I never understood his appeal. Short, hair challenged and that NY accent.

He had quite a body in that steam room scene above.

Remember Ava’s short stint on Knots Landing? She was a mess on that show. She died shortly after.

He was supposed to take over the lead in La Cage Aux Folles on Broadway. He gave an interview on Live at 5 saying he ultimately just couldn't look at another man and sing a love song.

Arthur Laurents book makes it sound like he was terrible in the role so they had to fire him. I forget the details but they were worried about hiring him in the first place.

that steam room scene is EVERYTHING. Thank you, John Wayne, you big poof you.

He should have fucked her. I don't care if he liked pussy or not. If Ava wanted to fuck, you fucked.

I remember. She was playing Mac's mother and she was SO annoying with the coffee? it used to drive us nuts with my sister ! she would pour the coffee from the big silver coffee pot, but didn't let ANYTIME for the cup to fill up!! she was just pretending and it SHOWED; we were screaming at the TV, like "AVA FOR FUCK SAKE! POUR THE FUCKING THING FOR REAL!!!AAARRGGH!" and then they would pretend-drink from the cups that were EMPTY. It used to drive us WILD! anyone else remember that ? that CUNT couldn't even serve a cup of coffee convincingly

FUCK ME.

[quote] saying he ultimately just couldn't look at another man and sing a love song.

I suspect he felt he would be too convincing. These golden age stars were always afraid to reveal themselves in their roles. The bitches played saints, and the bad guys played priests. It took guts to play a vilain, for fear of being associated with the role. I don't remember who it was, I think Don Murray , who was asked by a producer if he wouldn't mind playing a gay character, and he replied, well I've played golf once, and nobody ever called me a golfer.

Arthur Laurents fired Stack, and the production had to pay him off: $100,000. It wasn't about Stack not being able to look at another man while singing a love song because he was so darned straight. It was about him not being able to sing, period.

R164, have you ever seen "Patton"? He was usually a bit of a ham but he was fucking brilliant in that movie! That was the one time his intrinsic assholeness was used to perfect effect, he was playing a monster and it sounds like he was a monster in real life.

Other than that, he had an interesting face and a certain charisma, but the assholery is always there under the surface. He never should have played anyone but villains and anti-heroes.

Ava reportedly once said, "I hate acting, but I love the money," which pretty much explains why she was never really invested in her movie career. In later years, she accepted film work to pay the bills.

[quote] . It was about him not being able to sing, period.

He says he couldn't sing in the interview, otherwise would have joined the opera, like his whole family. I think his uncles were quite famous Italy. Bizzarely, he is also a great uncle of Taran Killam

Didn't somebody post Arthur Laurents' bitchy letter to Allan Carr the other day, or did I dream it?

R190 no, I haven't and I don't really want to see another movie with him, but thank you

Ben Gazzarra gay? HA HA HA HA HA

[quote] Isn't anyone familiar with Ava's abusive relationship in the 1960s with drunken George C Scott?

Did Ava beat up George worse than mom?

R195 Ben Gazzara the italo-american BROADWAY ACTOR who created the part of gay Brick Pollitt in Tenessee William's "Cat on a hot tin roof" gay ? so ?

[quote]the most beautiful studio star to come out of Hollywood

Elizabeth Taylor said she thought Ava and Lena were the most beautiful, not her.

R164, you should check out Dr Strangelove (1964). I remember Scott in a Paul Schrader film called Hardcore (1979) where he was good too. George C Scott was an ugly one note kind of actor actor, but in the right role he could be excellent.

George C Scott story: he was the star of a 1980s TV sitcom (if you can believe that) called Mr President. The producer hired the children for the show, they finalized plans to move to California, schools, housing etc, The brainly producer realized there was a clause in Scott's contract that he had final cast approval. Scott rejected the children.

I wonder what Katharine Hepburn and Ava Gardner thought of each other.

Ava admired her, she says so in her book, Hepburn didn't think of her...

[quote] Hepburn didn't think of her...

Except for when she went horseback riding or took a warm bath

I don't think sultry Ava would have the hots for dried up bony Hepburn. But apparently Garbo stayed in Palm springs during the marriage to Frank, and Ava writes that she wouldn't have missed that for the world, so she went to stay with Greta and first thing you know, Greta was naked in the pool. Vivien asked to spend some time there too, at some point and phoned Frank . he had everything set up for her, big time , lady olivier and all that, and at she never showed up. He was allegedly furious. But Ava did meet her according to Givenchy, or Dior, in their fitting rooms, and they had to be physically separated apparentely "OMG what a beauty!" "but YOU are so beautiful, look at your body" et c

Did Vance ever hit on Ava?

Ava's best film was Earthquake in 1974. I wonder if she and Charlton Heston got along during filming?

Sal Mineo said that Charlton fucked him when he was wayyy underage, and that his wife mustn't have given him any, because he thought Heston would never get out of the saddle

[quote] Ava's best film was Earthquake in 1974. I wonder if she and Charlton Heston got along during filming?

They tried to start an affair, but Marjoe Gortner kept cock blocking.

[quote] Sal Mineo said that Charlton fucked him when he was wayyy underage

Let me guess who wrote about that: Darwin Porter.

I always loved this photo of young Stack and Judy Garland rollerskating together. He looks like such a big, handsome lunk here. :D

Ben Gazzara wasn't short. Unless 5'10 is considered short now. Maybe he looked short next to James Stewart in Anatomy Of A Murder because Stewart was 6'3. I saw him onstage in the revival of Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf, with Colleen Dewhurst. He didn't look short.

By the way, East Side, West Side is on TCM tonight if anyone wants to see why Ava was considered beautiful. She sure makes Cyd Charisse (who I think was beautiful) look plain by comparison, in the film. (Also with Barbara Stanwyck, James Mason, Van Heflin, and Nancy Davis, aka Reagan.)

Cyd Charisse was lovely, but the camera didn't love her madly, not the way it loved Liz, Viv, and Ava. Her face just doesn't grab the viewer's attention the way those gals can, but Cyd had other ways to get our attention so it all worked out for her.

Was Bobby Stack one of Lana's conquests or was it strictly a studio arranged date?

I can't believe that with all the movies Lana Turner made in the '30s, '40s, '50s and '60s, she was only nominated for an Oscar once, and that was Best Actress for "Peyton Place" in 1958 (in the role of Constance Mackenzie), for which she lost to Joanne Woodward as Eve White in "The Three Faces of Eve."

Other nominees in 1958 were: Deborah Kerr – Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison as Sister Angela; Anna Magnani – Wild Is the Wind as Gioia and Elizabeth Taylor – Raintree County as Susanna Drake.

Lana wasn't even nominated for The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946) and Madame X (1966).

Lana Turner performances and awards:

Ava and her beau, Catalan bullfighter Mario Cabre. Senyor Cabre was always impeccably dressed. Handsome man.

R208 he was on a date with Judy (see what I'm doing here ?). Young Bob Stack and young Judy G. Seem to belong to different eras, but that's because Bob always looked a solid 10 years younger than his actual age, particularly in the untouchables. In that sense he was an honorary Datalounger.

Oh god... we’re back on the “Lana Was a Good Actress!” warpath.

We just had a thread on that peroxided zombie.

R216 = Judy Garland

R216. Lana will cut you. She's done it before.

Don't fuck with Lana

Ben Gazzara was tall (long) where it counted.

R220 pics please (or it didn't happen)

Oh, Ava was a notorious pricktease.

Missy Stanwyck and I used to call her "Ava Hardener" behind her back over cocktails. The girl traveled around with a mattress on her back.

Good times! Sigh.

If AIDS had been present during Old Hollywood they all would have died in their prime.

well R223..cirrhosis, STDs, ODs and blood poisoning, murder and car crash..they sort of did..not many of them reached the 80's I couldn't wait forever

Omar Sharif became great friends with Ava Gardner after they appeared in a movie together in the 1960s, and they remained close for the rest of her life. Sharif said he did not want the relationship to turn into an affair because he feared it would ruin their friendship.

Cyd Charisse had a beautiful figure and a real talent - as a dancer. It's unfair to group her in with those actresses whose faces were their talent.

Hey, I could play Lady M. Okay ?

Sharif said he did not want the relationship to turn into an affair because Ava was too decrepit and was rumored to carry more STDs than a chinese bat.

There, corrected for you

^ So did Sharif, smartass

[italic]Leave Ava ALONE ! !

R225 I I grouped Cyd with Ava in the post because a movie was on and they were both in it. It wasn't unfair of me, it was unfair of MGM! If they studio cast Cyd and their other musical performers in non-musicals, to get their money's worth out of their contracts, hey, whatever. She was cast as a model in the movie. I was just saying Ava outshone her in that particular instance.

Cyd was certainly a good looking woman. But good looking women are a dime a dozen. Ava was photogenic and radiated beauty, sultriness, excitement.

Cyd could actually DO something that required skills , dedication and training. Ava couldn't dance/sing/act. She was the epitome of 50's "glamour". Jolie madame with a shit ton of make-up, the eyebrows in the middle of the forehead and the poodle coiffe. She's a star who doesn't transcend her era, but she was pleasant enough, very sultry. I don't like Cyd Charisse, but I respect that she was a accomplished performer in a very hard discipline. Ava was just regal, pretty and sexy with a great body IMO

Both lovely.

I wonder who was prettier in real life, Ava or Cyd? Because Ava photographed a hell of a lot better, the camera adored her! Or maybe the cinematographers did, they made her look absolutely stunning, and never did the same for Cyd.

Cyd aged better than Ava did.

Does R233 think that's picture is of Ava and Cyd? HA!

Ultimately, Stack outlived Gardner, and had both a loger life, AND a longer career.

[quote]Lana wasn't even nominated for The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946) and Madame X (1966).

"Postman" is one thing but "Madame X"? At least in New York City, Universal dumped it in three second rate theaters including 42nd St and added an Audie Murphy double feature. They hardly considered it Oscar worthy.

“She’s not Madam X, she’s Brand X.”

And Tuesday Weld did it better.

[quote]By the way, East Side, West Side is on TCM tonight if anyone wants to see why Ava was considered beautiful. She sure makes Cyd Charisse (who I think was beautiful) look plain by comparison, in the film. (Also with Barbara Stanwyck, James Mason, Van Heflin, and Nancy Davis, aka Reagan.)

Just watched and i don;t get it. She wasn't unattractive but in the long shots she was hard looking and in close-up they did the soft focus "Vasaline" shots. Surprising for such a young woman.

R236 uh, no. Its Ava and Lana. We were speaking about them until the tiresome Cyd Troll came along.

Ava Gardner’s face is great because it’s symmetrically pretty but also has character. It’s not just a paper doll illustration.

Cyd was a...party girl!

I get that many find Ava beautiful and alluring: there's something very sensual about her face. But at times, I also find her hard and mannish (almost tran-nish) looking, the way some 50's haute fashion models were. The glamour pic at R243 is a good example: it's intriguing, but it's a bit ugly as well.

Faces like that command attention, but rarely age well. Ava's booze bloat ruined her looks by her 40s.

This OP is an obsessed lunatic. Robert Stack, one of the most handsome men in Hollywood? Hah.

J'aime les hommes qui sont c'qui peuvent

Assis sur le bord des fleuves

Ils regardent s'en aller dans la mer

Les bouts de bois les vieilles affaires

La beauté d'Ava Gardner

Dolores Del Rio should be mentioned as a great beauty:

Did Del Rio ever even make any movies, or just pose for pictures? I can’t even name one she was in.

Ava Gardner was the honey badger of Hollywood.

She truly didn’t give a fuck.

Why? This is an Ava Gardner thread.

Ava’s spirit animal:

Ava was murdered in East Side West Side, made in 1949. I watched it today. Barbara Stanwyck, James Mason, Ava, and other stars of the era. Good movie.

This from a summary of East Side West Side."

The showy role in East Side, West Side belongs to Gardner, playing the predatory Other Woman. By the time she was cast in the film, Gardner had been under contract at M-G-M for seven years, and had advanced from playing bit parts to second leads, or leading lady roles opposite more important male stars. She had had her breakout role in The Killers (1946) at Universal, but was not yet a considered top-tier star at her home studio of M-G-M.

Nevertheless, she held her own with Stanwyck in their climactic scene together in East Side, West Side. The scene may have been art imitating life. Gardner had had a torrid affair with Stanwyck's real-life husband Robert Taylor when they worked together on her previous film, The Bribe (1949). It's not clear whether Stanwyck was aware of the affair, but she and Taylor divorced the following year."

R249, I think Delores del Rio's heyday was in the late 20s and early 1930s, and many of the films she made were silent or comparatively crude early sound films. Probably her best-known film is "Flying Down to Rio", where she was a titular lead, but the film was totally stolen from her when supporting players Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers danced together.

I think by the mid thirties, when films became watchable, her career was starting to slow down. She actually kept appearing in films for many years, I mean she appeared in a fucking Elvis movie in 1960, but in supporting roles.

R251 no, I'm sorry, it's a ROBERT STACK thread. I second what's been said about Ava's face, from the wrong angle it looked potato-ish and the nose job was completely unecessary. Like Monroe, she looked a bit like a drag, and YES, I think Robert Stack was one of the prettiest guys in Hollywood, I used to watch ' the untouchables ' when I was a kid, and I thought he was gorgeous. Blue eyes, curly hair.. Yumm.

You're insane, Frenchie. Are you really Matthew?

[quote]probably her best-known film is "Flying Down to Rio", where she was a titular lead

Oh, she was a titular lead? Whom did she play, "Flying," "Down," or "Rio"?

(You probably mean she was the nominal lead)

R257 who's Matthew ? And what 's insane about liking a beautiful man ? Again, this is a quality thread, posters don' t insult one another. Please contain yourself, or I'll call Mr Fairford.

BTW What does it mean when you're called "Matthew" on DL ? it's happened to me before, and I've seen it in other threads. I get it's not a compliment, but what does it mean ?

East Side West Side is a mildly entertaining soap opera. The best part is Stanwyck's voiceover right after the titles, over a NYC street scene:

"Yes, this is my town. It's not new to you, you've read books about it, you've seen movies. People are always talking about New York. It's the most exciting city in the world they say, the most glamorous, the most frightening, and above all - the fastest. You hear a great deal about the tempo of the city, its speed, its pace, its driving heartbeat. Perhaps it's true for visitors. But I was born here, I live here, and the only pace I know is of my own life. The only beat I hear is the beat of my own heart."

Every time I read the word "titular" I think of Jayne Mansfield and her squeal.

[quote]Oh, she was a titular lead? Whom did she play, "Flying," "Down," or "Rio"?

Rio always played Rio.

Was it socko at the B.O. down in Rio?

Look, girls, I am SICK AND TIRED of all this Ava-bashing. This lack of respect and reverence for a SCREEN GODDESS is unworthy of any homosexual worthy of the name.

And as for Mr. Whiny-Cry-Baby Robert Stack--get over it!!!

Okay, I stand corrected, Delores del Rio was the NOMINAL lead of "Flying Down to Rio"!

But Rio was not played by Rio, it was played by some soundstages and maybe Santa Monica.

People really thing Robert Stack was beautiful? Okay, he had some charisma, but I've never liked him as an actor, and never much liked his looks. This isn't what I'd call a beautiful man, although he did have the sort of all-American strong-jawed blue-eyed looks that could have been attractive enough if backed up by a personality I liked. But he usually projected the kind of intense underlying-anger personality that I don't like in the movies or in real life, like Kirk Douglas. And Douglas could occasionally drop the angry intensity and be funny, I never saw Stack do that.

But I guess others like the intense, slightly dangerous kind of guy, but for me... I can't find a man attractive unless he has a sense of humor.

Agree - he's rather pedestrian and doesn't reach out and grab your interest, like Cary Grant or Gary Cooper. Or even less attractive but more interesting types like Humphrey Bogart, Jimmy Stewart, Jack Nicholson, etc. He's just sort of there - gets the job done but he's easy to ignore.

Stack always was a flaming piece if shit.

R261 these movies were so OTT and ridiculous. I recently watched ' room at the top' with pretty boy Larry Harvey. Signoret' s live is OVAH because she's 36 and she is a HOAARR because she posed once in the nude when she was ' young' so she basically has no choice but jump over a cliff. And Harvey' s friends are all like 'EWWWWWW HOW COULD YOU DO IT WITH THIS GERIATRIC ??. I thought Signoret was very good, but then I watched' games' with bi dreamboat James Caan, and... Not so much.

R270, nothing's ridiculous with Barbara Stanwyck in it!

They all fucked each other.

R271= Linda Evans

Ava with her fave bullfighter Luis Miguel Dom

^^ Luis Miguel Dominguín

Dominguín was a starfucker. He married Lucia Bosè, the destitute man's Sophia Loren.

[quote] People really thing Robert Stack was beautiful?

YES.THEY.DO

[Quote]Dominguín was a starfucker.

He was the greatest bullfighter of his time and an international star, so yes, he had to get in on the celeb fuck everybody club.

I know I did...

I meant, find Bob beautiful

Oh good , this gives me the opportunity to bring this up. The dame falls off the wing at 4:35. Shot of the crowd, alarmed. The guy on the wing below catches her. Shot of the crowd, relieved. But...she doesn't come to. How do we know she survived?

R281 I swear the girl on the far left @ 2:53 is Katharine Hepburn

[quote] How do we know she survived?

She doesn't R281, she suffers so much internal damage that they realize she's as good as dead and they throw her out to alleviate the plane, but she hits the blade and she's sliced alive as the crowd watches in horror and splashes Fred Astaire with bits of flesh and bowels body juices and blood. Now you know.

Back to Bob, here he is at Jackie Cooper's pool party on the right. Yes, he was very, very pretty.

R284 wow thanks. Candy. and poor Judy, looking like a dog as usual..she was always the ugliest person in the room..no wonder she was so depressive

It's those bad wigs that I don't like

I can’t name a single movie Mr. Robert Stack was in.

Strictly B List.

I'm watching gorgeous Ava in "The Little Hut" on TCM right now. With Stewart Granger, David Niven, and featuring Ava's beau de jour, Walter Chiari.

Cook & Chiari

^^ help me understand why this is here

Oh, I’m sorry, r288/r289.

I see now!

R287 I remember him in To Be Or Not To Be, so that's one.

And YOU, Mr Pass-Around Stack, WEREN’T?!

R287 Ava, you're bitter

R287 what R292 said + Written on the wind, are CLASSICS. Long and distinguished career, an Iconic Character ( Eliott Ness) and leading ladies of the caliber of Bacall, Taylor, Davis ,Durbin, Sullavan, Crawgord and so on /= B.list

[quote] Honey, if you don' t know this movie, I'm glad I don't know you.

R296 Exactly! another triumph in Bobby's A.lister career

So fucking what, she loveD ❤️ Dick, can we stop calling her a kund & a hauwe

R298 she was basically Harvey Weinstein in a sheath dress

Stack was always an c grade actor with an ugly personality and average looks. He’s just jealous that Ava was so much better than him.

R182 we actually -AND THIS IS TRUE -had a game in our house called " I am Ava Gardner serving coffee in Knots Landing" we would take mother's fine silver coffee pot and her china, each of us would take turn being Ava and the game went like this : We had to pretend to be pouring the coffee at the family gathering, and do it as fast as possible ,so that it was impossible for any coffee to actually leave the pot, but still we had to make the move. the winner was the swiftest. OMG I had forgotten this.

R300 stop it ! or Bob will Stop YOU

SORRY STINKY LINK

AAAARRGGHHHH sorry

I'm worried about r301. Should we call EMS to check in on them?

R305 we also had a game called ' I am Catherine Deneuve making an omelette in My Favourite season ' if you ever have a chance to see that movie, she's having a heated argument with her brother in the kitchen while she's supposed to make an omelette and she cracks like 125 eggs. It's hilarious.

Who wouldn't simply adore to have this game set?

Dolores Del Rio was in 50 or 60 films. Romona, Evangeline, Bird Of Paradise (directed by King Vidor), The Fugitive, and Cheyenne Autumn (Both dir. by John Ford), Journey Into Fear (possibly co-directed by Orson Welles) She made a lot of Mexican movies as well. And was later on TV. She was involved with Welles and others, supposedly, Walt Disney. There used to be pictures of her and Disney on the internet but they seem to have been scrubbed.

By the way, why is everyone always so focused on Lana Turner, Elizabeth Taylor, Rita Hayworth, Grace Kelly, Lauren Bacall (!) and a few others, as old time screen beauties? What about Hedy Lamarr, Jean Simmons, Ingrid Bergman, Gene Tierney, Sophia Loren, Janet Leigh, Maureen O'Hara, Kim Novak...

Fair question, R308.

I only saw Gene Tierney onscreen a few years back, and her presence blew me away. So beautiful in LAURA and LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN.

I find some of these ladies equally beautiful but frankly, rather dull to watch: Novak, O'Hara, even Grace Kelly. I suspect Kelly knew (much like the fabulous Audrey Hepburn) that beauty was her biggest talent and left the game long before it left her. I saw Jean Simmons recently in a late career movie (HAPPY ENDING) written and directed by her husband: she was good but never great. She didn't have "it." I think she had exactly the career she deserved.

I respect Ingrid Bergman's "naturalistic" beauty and acting, but I've never been her biggest fan--there's always something a bit cold and remote about her.

Sophia is a legend, and remains one.

[quote]I respect Ingrid Bergman's "naturalistic" beauty and acting, but I've never been her biggest fan--there's always something a bit cold and remote about her.

[quote]—since you asked

I did ask, thanks for answering. I would say Ingrid Bergman is one of the least cold, least remote screen stars I have ever seen. Jean Simmon, a little remote. Hedy Lamarr, she could be remote and aloof, not very in touch with her emotional side. Bergman? Very warm, very emotive. This reminded me of a coworker who described James Stewart as "wooden". Whether you like him or not, how could anyone think the highly animated and emotional Jimmy Stewart was wooden?

I don't really agree Jean Simmons didn't have "it." I don't think she was always the greatest actress who ever lived, but how can someone achieve big stardom without the it factor? She wasn't Elizabeth Taylor or Audrey Hepburn, I guess. Since I had a big crush on her as a kid, mostly due to her 'ancient history' and Biblical movies, I think she must have had it. She was great in Elmer Gantry btw.

[quote]R308 why is everyone always so focused on Lana Turner, Elizabeth Taylor, Rita Hayworth, Grace Kelly, Lauren Bacall (!) and a few others, as old time screen beauties? What about Hedy Lamarr, Jean Simmons, Ingrid Bergman, Gene Tierney, Sophia Loren, Janet Leigh, Maureen O'Hara, Kim Novak...

Bergman is in a different category than those walking pinups because she could actually ACT. Sophia Loren was probably the next most emotionally fluid from that list, after her.

Sophia's Italian. It's easier for her to emote.

Bergman was a great beauty with charisma, but she had a naturalistic beauty and didn't usually act like a man trap onscreen, she could play nuns or professional women or freedom fighters, or give the impression she didn't think her looks were important. She was also a very good actress with a good range, which is why her career lasted rather longer than most of her Hollywood contemporaries.

Vivien Leigh was also a brilliant screen actress as well as one of the most photogenic humans of all time, but she chose to spend most of her life away from Hollywood, and of course her health interfered with her career. She might well have been happier if she'd ditched Olivier for Hollywood, because he wasn't much of a husband, but she wouldn't have been any healthier. She just wasn't fated to fulfill her potential as a screed actress.

[quote]She might well have been happier if she'd ditched Olivier for Hollywood, because he wasn't much of a husband,

Closeted gay men are usually awful husbands.

R313 R314 I have to intervene here. Olivier was a horrible human being but Vivien benefited immensely from her association with him, just as he did from his with her. I don't need to go into details that are common knowledge, but, when she had her little problem on the set of "Elephant walk" (=total breakdown during which she tried to kill herself several times but also Tamara Finch's daughter ) The studio wanted to have her commited. they had lost tons of money, they needed to justify that she wasn't employable anymore for the insurance. Olivier pleaded and begged them to let him take her back to England. In America it would have been a huge scandal, she would have gone the Gene Tierney route , her career was over. They relented on two conditions, she would be commited in England, and she would have to see the infamous Doc Greenson, who was working for the studio. So she travelled on a stretcher, heavily sedated. At one point she woke up and created mayhem on the plane. When they arrived in England, he put her in a private clinic under a false identity . Later on there would be flocks of nurses looking after her in Notley Abbey when she was badly. And he chose easy vehicles (the sleeping prince) for her to resume her career when she was better. I knew Rosemary Geddes who was their personal secretary, and after the divorve, hers. She never knew that Vivien was ill. She would say " I lived 10 years with her, in her appartement, and I never saw anything unusual, she was always perfectly composed, a perfect lady, so it must have happened when she was away" she was completely dumbfounded Rosemary. In a sense he saved her. She wouldn't have been the actress she became, or the star she was, without his help (his agent was Myron Selznick) just as he wouldn't have become Lord Olivier founder of the National Theatre without her. He was a POS, but she wouldn't have been happier without him

She was very, very ill Vivien.

[quote]how could anyone think the highly animated and emotional Jimmy Stewart was wooden?

Right. Awkward and geeky is a better description.

[quote]R313 Vivien Leigh was also a brilliant screen actress as well as one of the most photogenic humans of all time, but she chose to spend most of her life away from Hollywood, and of course her health interfered with her career.

Leigh was a good actress but had a fairly narrow range. For instance, she’d have made a pretty bad Eliza Doolittle in PYGMALION’S first half.

R318 see "St Martin's lane" her cockney accent is a bit all over the place, but that could be fixed, and Audrey H. was not exactly genius in that part. The best Eliza was Wendy Hiller IMO

[quote]R319 see "St Martin's lane"

What makes you think I haven’t?

hahaha I was thinking the same as I was typing...I don't think she would have been a worse Eliza than Hepburn. She's very interesting in a few of her pre GWTW movies , Dark journey and Fire over England...She had a very unusual mix of intelligence and sex appeal, with all the hysteria and madness close to the surface

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Elizabeth "Downton Abbey" McGovern as Ava?

Oh, hell no.

Unless she's only recreating Ava in EARTHQUAKE.

[quote]Leigh was a good actress but had a fairly narrow range. For instance, she’d have made a pretty bad Eliza Doolittle in PYGMALION’S first half.

I have no idea if she would have made a bad Eliza Doolittle. Who cares? She was a brilliant Scarlett O'Hara and equally brilliant Blanche DuBois. Much more complex roles than Eliza Doolittle. (A role she never played, but you're sure she would have been bad in the first half of it. I guess we'll have to take your word for it.) She was also great in Waterloo Bridge, That Hamilton Woman, and Ship Of Fools.

Besides that, she was very active on stage, in Hamlet, Romeo And Juliet, The Skin Of Our Teeth, Antigone, Streetcar, Caesar and Cleopatra/Anthony and Cleopatra (alternating the Shaw and Shakespeare plays), Macbeth, Titus Andronicus, Duel Of Angels, and a Broadway musical, Tovarich.

R324, refrain from using the words "who cares?" at the Datalounge.

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Why were Robert Stack and Olivier awful people?

Stack was nice or gay?

You know who looks like Ava to me is Liv Tyler, though she could never portray her.

I never knew anyone who worked with Stack alas, but I've know tons of people who've worked with Olivier, including Bates, and they ALL say he was dreadful. When I was a young man in this industry, I heard horror stories about him. People prefered Leigh..she was Lovely and catty at the same time.

Ava Gardner was a WHORE Ee i ee i oh

R325 I toned it down from what I originally wrote, which was "Who gives a fuck?"

R330 please...this is not this kind of thread...a frenchie thread is a place of tolerance, kindness and good manners

Ava Gardner - The Musical. Is that what it's going to be? Did Andrew Lloyd Webber write the music?

Let's cast "Ava Gardner the musical". Who will play Bobby Stack ? who will play Maureen O'Sullivan, the betrayed wife ? Who will play Mia farrow in the show-stopper "Why did you take my Daddyyyyyy, I'll take youuuuuurs ?"

Sophie Okonedo as Ava. Conrad Ricamora as Frank.

EVERYONE cares about every petty thing at the Datalounge. "I don't care" is admissible, but don't speak for all of us!

Darren Criss IS Robert Stack

A. Hepburn was not a whore! [176] She slept with William Holden during Sabrina and Gazzara during Bloodline (probably to distract from making that awful film). Possibly Albert Finney during Two for the Road. She wasn't married during the Holden relationship (though Holden was technically). Her marriages were on the rocks during the Finney and Gazzara (what did she ever see in him?) affairs. 3 times in 30 years?

R337 = Audrey

[quote] She slept with William Holden during Sabrina

She had an on and off affair with Holden , the second steady episode of which ended her marriage to Ferrer, a very well documented torrid affair with Finney, many others, -her business and good for her, all I'm saying is she was very different from her public image. She could be a lovely friend , but was also aggressively ambitious, ruthless , and borderline mercenary with men. Also, from her longtime (black) maid in Switzerland : on her day off, someone spilled something on the kitchen floor, and Audrey went to the maid room and asked her to go clean it. said maid excused herself because it was her day off and said she devoted it to praying . Audrey replied "Good, while you're on your knees , you'll just have to extend your arm and clean it"....

" 12 SCANDALOUS Facts About Audrey Hepburn's Love Life You Should Know"

Darling Audrey, you make me look like mother Teresa

Um, no, Ava. Even Grace Kelly, Joan Crawford, and the Happy Hooker couldn't do that!

Ava HARDENER.

Hee!

[quote]She had an on and off affair with Holden

EVERYONE had an on and off affair with Holden

[quote]her business and good for her

Do you realize where you are? There is no such thing as "her business."

And your sources? [339] Did you interview the black maid? Audrey barely made more than a dozen or so films at her height. Doesn't sound so ruthless or ambitious to me. She was no saint and never claimed to be, but I've never read anything like that about her. (in books with sources anyway).......

well R345 my childhood best friend was Audrey's son Luca's classmate in Rome at Lycée Chateaubriand, and I knew Audrey's friend Dominique Minot quite well so that's what I've got, I 've seemed to have offended you

If Audrey didn't want to offend her fans, she shouldn't have acted like Joan Crawford!

Whores! All of them! I did not know that everyone hated Ava when she lived in Spain.

No one can accuse Holden of having a type. From Audrey to Shelley...

I didn't.

William Holden wasn't a bad-looking guy before the booze and cigs took their toll on his looks.

Ava went to Brazil in September,1954, for a week-long junket to promote The Barefoot Contessa. The country's dictator/president since 1930, Getulio Vargas, had committed suicide just two weeks before, and the entire nation was still in shock. Ava trashed her first hotel room and was then moved to the Copacabana Palace, where she proceeded to fuck any guy who came along. It was so outrageous - even for Brazil - that they expelled her from the country after three days and she never returned.

No, [346} I just don't put much faith in 2nd hand sources and gossip. You seem to have the inside scoop on all the stars...

PARIS WHEN IT SIZZLES was on TV recently. Audrey looks lovely in her Givenchy, but bored. Holden is visibly drunk in some scenes (apparently, his drinking held up production). I finally gave up around the 20-30 minute mark.

What a pointless, charmless, terrible film. For every great film he did (SUNSET BLVD, NETWORK) Holden did at least 2 really crappy ones.

[quote] Holden is visibly drunk in some scenes

I didn't see that..hicups...

Holden drank 24/7, he was a hopeless alcoholic. Of course, that's what killed him.

it was sooo bizarre the wau he died, so suspicious. didn't he die a few days before natalie Wood ? Powers and Wagner are really crafty. How did they get away with that ?

It wasn't bizarre or suspicious at all. He was a raging alcoholic and fell and hit his head on the corner of a table in a drunken stupor. It happens all the time.

R358 = Ava

Ava's been dead for over 30 years, honey.

not on DL,honey, never on DL

[quote]R345 And your sources? [339] Did you interview the black maid?

It’s in at least one of the Hepburn biographies.

Get over the St. Audrey crap.

[quote]please...this is not this kind of thread...a frenchie thread is a place of tolerance, kindness and good manners

This is the second time you've reprimanded me on this thread and told me I don't have good manners. Frankly I never thought that because you start a thread on this forum (for which I pay to post) you have the right to tone police people. But I won't bother you any more. Bye.

R363 it was a JOKE! Aaaaww your contribution is appreciated, come back

[quote] Get over the St. Audrey crap.

At last!!!!

[quote]my childhood best friend was Audrey's son Luca's classmate in Rome at Lycée Chateaubriand,

Did he live on the second floor?

R366. Yes (he knows you've seen him before)

Audrey Hepburn = real name not Audrey Hepburn

What do you mean Katharine ? She LIED ABOUT WHO SHE WAS ? and surely that is something that YOU should call her out for

R178, "The Strange One" was based on a play about a closet case (Gazarra) bullying gay guys during hazing week at a military school.

They had to tone down the homo-stuff for the film, but it (and he) still smolders throughout. HIGHLY recommended.

AH’s initial last name was Ruston.

R369, it's time for morning meds.

My fair lady London premiere...upper class people looked so stuffed and rancid. Sexy Rexy's plus one is lifelong fuck bud Viv Olivier.

Part 2

the gals at a dance with their beaus

RJ is feeling it

And Katharine used her brother's birthday for years (he was younger). So for years I thought she was the stereotypical Scorpio (because in my teens I was interested in that malarkey) - come to find out, like her pal and namesake Audrey, she's a Taurus!

I wonder if this is the brother she discovered hanged when she (and he) were young. Can't remember 'how' young - but I know she was the one who found his body. In her autobiography, she talks about how it affected her, for the rest of her life (why she didn't have kids? oh something like that)

Oh and I read that Audrey was permanently scarred by being called fat when she came over to America as a young girl/refugee. She had eaten grass to survive during the war and when it ended, I think she pigged out for a bit... anyway, we can see what affect that had on her henceforth.

^^ she was almost fired when she showed up to rehearse GIGI in NY because she took an ocean liner over from Europe (where she’d been cast) and gorged on chocolates the whole way.

I don’t know how much she gained- it couldn’t have been THAT much - but the producers were alarmed.

She dropped the weight quickly, though.

Then that Dove commercial was correct!

Audrey Hepburn's birth name was Audrey Kathleen Ruston. When she was 9, her father, Joseph Ruston, added Hepburn to the family name (Hepburn-Ruston), at the insistance of his wife, Baroness Ella van Heemstra, who felt the double-barrelled name sounded aristocratic. Hepburn was the name of Ruston's great grandmother, whom he believed was descended from James Hepburn, third husband of Mary, Queen of Scots.

"Oh and I read that Audrey was permanently scarred by being called fat when she came over to America as a young girl/refugee. "

I think this is a picture from Audrey's pre-Hollywood days, when she was a dancer. You can see that her thighs are thicker than her calves, and she's heavier than she was during her heyday, but no way was she "fat" even by Hollywood's standards! Well, maybe be George Balanchine's standards, but this is a very slim young woman.

If she gained weight a few times later in her career... I'm sure she was still thin, but women with that gangly body type tend to put on weight around the waist and tum.

I can't believe in a discussion about beautiful women in Hollywood, Rita Hayworth has not been mentioned! Rita as Gilda to me, is just the epitome of beauty.

Just by looking at her feet, you can tell she was not a good ballet dancer. Caron was a different story.

Caron was at her most beautiful in my opinion circa Fanny.

I can't remember if he expressly criticized her weight, but Fred Astaire said that Leslie Caron ate a huge amount - a big steak dinner with potato, etc., when on set (while he stuck to his small bowl of chicken soup to stay at his "dancing weight" of 135 -- at 5 ft 9)

His tv dance partner (girlfriend?) of later years, Barrie Chase, said he would count out how many peanuts she was allowed to eat before dinner at his house.

She’s definitely not svelte here:

[quote]His tv dance partner (girlfriend?) of later years, Barrie Chase

GIRLFRIEND? OH MY SIDES!!!!!!!

135lbs. at 5'9" is scary thin.

How can Fred still remain in the closet after all these years. No one has spilled the beans that he has had gay relationships that I’m aware of. Am I incorrect?

Leslie Caron was slim, but not as painfully thin as Audrey Hepburn or modern ballet dancers.

As for Astaire, I've never heard of a hint of a whisper about him and another man, and his screen presence is more sexless than gay. Maybe he was so deep in the closet that the White Witch let him call her "Jadis", or he was on the asexual side of things. I wouldn't be surprised by either revelation.

Fred's a weird one. Liked to hobnob with socialites - his mother was a social climber, married to an Austrian Jew (whose family converted to Catholicism when he was born). Anyhow, we have this from a letter to his sister about his mother Ann's controlling ways:

“Mother is so difficult at times,” Fred wrote to Adele in early 1933. “She’ll have a fit I suppose if I get married to anybody within the next 10 years. I don’t know what she expects me to do — keep a couple of tarts or play with myself. . . . I’m so tired of sneaking in at night — having all my telephone conversations listened to. . . . I don’t want to lose this girl.” Eventually, Adele and Ann accepted the inevitable, and Fred married his beloved Phyllis and moved to Hollywood, where he danced a little."

Note: Fred was 34 years old in 1933 when he wrote that letter.

Was Audrey Hepburn the one who liked having guys shit on her tits or was that Helen Lawson?

[quote]R384 I think this is a picture from Audrey's pre-Hollywood days, when she was a dancer. You can see that her thighs are thicker than her calves, and she's heavier than she was during her heyday, but no way was she "fat" even by Hollywood's standards! Well, maybe be George Balanchine's standards, but this is a very slim young woman.

As I (brilliantly) mentioned in r380, Audrey Hepcunt only gained serious weight that one time, sailing to America (in 1951?) to make her American stage debut. Almost being fired for getting chubby is probably what drove her into lifelong anorexia.

But she was slim before and after that one extended binge.

I think this is the slightly bigger face.

It’s not that she wasn’t still beautiful.... she was just supposed to play a young teen and she was more willowy when they hired her.

Or maybe this is Audrey's "bigger" phase, when her shirt was so imperfectly tailored that it bulged a little around the middle.

She does look quite young here, and damn, that dark red lipstick didn't suit her.

She had a nose job?

I wouldn’t think so.

She had several nose jobs. Obvious ones. Hence the weird nostrils. They almost all did. The only 'REAL' beauties that I can think of are Vivien Leigh, Gene Tierney, Grace Kelly and that's it. Same with men. Tab Hunter didn't do anything that's noticeable, nor did Bod Stack (remember him ?). We were watching an old Natalie Wood / Jimmy Dean movie with mother the other day, not ' rebel', another one, and mother gasped in horror' ' OMG her nose ! Natalie Wood HAD A NOSE JOB !' '. I tried to ignore it and push it out of my mind, but it was rather obvious...

Audrey 's original nose

Elizabeth 's original nose

Natalie

Wow RJ Wagner had a really FLAT ass.

But he had an ENORMOUS dick

Not only did Audrey Hepburn have a nose job, she continued to have them throughput her career. This is the 1960s version:

Stack’s face has always struck me as an unmovable mask. Expressionless. Incapable of showing any range of emotion.

Even in the sauna scene, something about him just leaves me cold.

Trivia question: what do Robert Stack and Marilyn McCoo have in common?

A fondness for muscular black men, R409?

[quote]As for Astaire, I've never heard of a hint of a whisper about him and another man, and his screen presence is more sexless than gay. Maybe he was so deep in the closet that the White Witch let him call her "Jadis", or he was on the asexual side of things. I wouldn't be surprised by either revelation.

Or maybe he was straight.

As for Audrey Hepburn coming to the US "as a refugee", as far as I know she went to England after the war, began her film career there, audtioned for Quo Vadis there, or in Rome (she wasn't cast), and only later came to Hollywood, at the time of Roman Holiday. If I'm wrong I don't mind being corrected.

R411, Yes. She moved to London on a ballet scholarship, did a few West End productions, a smattering of films, then hightailed it over to Broadway in '51 to do "Gigi."

Lardass Audrey porking up on american food as a refugee is a DL creation, although quite funny. . IRL she was dutch royalty starving elegantly in her grandfather Baron Van Heemstra ( mayor of Arhnem) 's castle, until her mother, Baroness Van E. relocated in London and Audrey enrolled in a posh ballet school and modeled a bit, while dating a super wealthy young english heir, that she very conveniently dumped when Hollywood called, after her success on Broadway, were she had the immense privilege of being insulted in her dressing room by Noël Coward himself. It was Garbo, who upon arriving in NYC with a welcoming comittee of ONE photographer, was told by the studio that americans didn't like fat women and she looked like a cow.

Where not were. Fat Hepburn existed though.. For Fattie Katie see picture below.

R412 That's right, and I forgot about Gigi on Broadway.

" It was Garbo, who upon arriving in NYC with a welcoming comittee of ONE photographer, was told by the studio that americans didn't like fat women and she looked like a cow."

Here's Garbo arriving in the US, with the director who made her name (not photographed), no makeup, a very mannish suit, and the sort of solid build that would make a horny Viking think of all the strong sons she could bear. She wasn't fat, except by Hollywood standards, she lost a lot of weight after she got to LA.

Marlene Dietrich, is another story. She started out fat!

[quote]R412 then she hightailed it over to Broadway in '51

[quote]Some would say “waddled”....

On arriving in Hollywood from Berlin in 1930, Marlene, on seeing "the competition", immediately began a crash diet.

Marlene in "The Blue Angel" was plump. Yet that was the movie that first brought her world wide attention.

When Marlene arrived in America aboard the S.S. Bremen, she was not yet the svelte, high cheekboned goddess that she would become after a stint in the Paramount Studios incubation factory.

Garbo fresh off the boat in nyc. I think she met this photographer at a party with Mauritce (sp?) Stiller that first week. A photo from the same session ran in Vanity Fair and started some buzz about her.

1921.

Dietrich's daughter Maria Riva confirmed that as soon as Marlene arrived in Hollywood she immediately starved herself to lose weight.

Somehow biographers always leave out her stint as a cigarette girl.

A pre-Hollywood Bacall as a young model...She was a sensation then and would be a sensation now.

Bacall was stunning, but the booze and smoking aged her fast. She was hard-looking by the time she was only in her early 30s.

Fred Astaire's first wife died in 1954. 26 YEARS LATER, he married a butch female jockey named Robyn Smith, 45 years younger that himself. As unglamorous as anyone could be, she had a stick figure and a personality like a dial tone.

EXPLAIN!

Well, he really loved horses.

R425 Define sensation.

R426 Losing your husband to a slow death to cancer and being left with two young kids in your early 30s can also age you fast.

She was haggard before that, r429

R430 Literally nobody gets haggard looking in their late 20s from a normal amount of smoking or drinking. Bacall wasn't a raging alcoholic. These kinds of posts are silly.

r431 she got haggard early. Look at the photos.

432 Then it wasn't from smoking and drinking. She just looked like that. It was her genes.

Though I don't really agree she got "haggard".

Sensation = style/energy/looks that redefine the idea of what a model should look like. She would take the catwalk by storm even today. I think the fashion of the 50's looked particularly bad on her. The poodle ' jolie madame ' coiffure, the heavy makeup and stuffy clothing smothered her natural beauty and made her look matronish. It looked bad on every body, but Bacall looked her best without too much makeup and in simple clothes. IMO. I still can't understand what people saw in her couple with Bogart. It's so cringy to see this young beauty with that old rag, especially in home movies. Ewww

For those new to the Datalounge, this is NOT a Lauren Bacall friendly site. Remember that.

Every MALE star? That's all?

No one else seems to have read the book, but PIECE OF WORK (2006), about a publicist working with a psycho star during a perfume launch, is based on the author’s real life experience toiling for Bacall.

[quote] Julia Einstein knew that being a stay-at-home mom had a lot in common with her former job as a celebrity publicist - endless, irrational demands, little to no appreciation, and constant hustle. But it isn't until her husband is laid off from his job and she's forced to go back to work and resurrect screen legend Mary Ford's career that Julia realizes how very much she prefers an actual child to a formerly famous client. For example, her child doesn't steal ten-thousand-dollar leather coats from photo shoots. Nor does he require a constant, fresh supply of a soda that is no longer in production. He doesn't curse at Julia, pronounce her name "Einstein" with a thick layer of disdainful irony, or incessantly poke at her with his index finger while reciting odd variations on childlike rhymes like a psych patient on day pass. With a mortgage looming and three years out of the business, however, Julia knows she has no choice but to make Mary's comeback a success. Even if it kills her. Which, at this pace, is a possibility. But if there is one thing Julia has learned from her time off from the office, it's that sheer determination can solve almost everything. After all, if she can get through suburban living with its uncontrolled clutter and playground politics, how hard can it be to resuscitate the career of an aging, desperate has-been? And get over the fact that her husband is a better stay-at-home mom than Julia ever was?

To get back to our theme, Fred Astaire named his daughter Ava (born 1942) -- was there some connection with Ava Gardner? It really wasn't a common name at that time.

R438, Ava Gardner signed with MGM in 1941 and married Mickey in 1942. Perhaps she and Astaire met during this time, or maybe he or wife Polly saw Ava's name in the papers and liked the name so much they named their daughter after her.

Fred's wife was Phyllis -- and they pronounced Ava differently -- it was Ah-vah. I doubt it was a nod to Gardner. Phyllis came from East Coast elite. Mrs Whitney something arranged their meeting on her yacht - oh something like that. Read Fred's book Steps in Time (title suggested by Noel Coward) years ago. The Astaire Ava was born in March 1942 and Gardner didn't sign up with MGM till 1941 "and appeared mainly in small roles until she drew critics' attention in 1946."

[quote]wife Polly

Heheh, I misremembered her name and conflated Phyllis Potter as Polly.

I've read that Ava Gardner originally pronounced her name Ah-vah, named after her aunt Ava Virginia. But when she came to Hollywood, everyone said Ay-va, so she stuck with it.

Mickey was a big star, so when unknown Ava married him, she catapulted to frontpage news and magazine covers.

Lauren Bacall was a lovely person, she was absolutely delightful

Turns out Ava was an amateur

I knew miss B. Very well. On a typical day, Bacall would wake up, have her high point coffee/half dozen cigs breakfast, then she would take a walk around the Dakota, telling children she'd meet that Santa Claus doesn't exist. If she was shooting that day, every wardrobe person would try to lock up the designers coats/bags that they were using, to make sure she would only take one. Then she 'd walk home across the Park, shooting squirrels. On her way home, she' d have a couple of sales assistants fired, then she 'd take a dump on Yoko' s doormat. And action a few of Bogie' s items on eBay before goind to her coffin. She was like that miss Bacall.

I fucked a guy from Ava's hometown. You're not missing much.

"Gene Raymond, the *gay* husband of Jeanette MacDonald...."

And how!

Talking about gay husbands, I just watched the HBO doc ' what remains behind', totally pointless , and made me like Natalie Wood LESS and despise Natasha Gregson, sorry, Gregson-Wagner, which I don't think was the aim. How CAN they hold on to that stupid banging dinghy theory at this point it' s baffling. Also, Wood and Wagner were magazine stars, not really actors, unless I missed their famous Macbeth at the Shubert theatre or any other serious acting effort, other than Kazan. If you live by the press, There's a chance they'll also explore the less glamorous aspects of your private life, including death, not only the pretty marriage, and the family laments of ' how DARE they 'are totally offensive. Also the whole' ' Lana-is-a-whore-and-a-grifter-we-barely-know-who-she-is' ' thing is embarrassing and make them look bad. Not to mention the bullet proof reliable witness MIA FARROW of all people, who knows it ALL and wasn't even there... Dis-heartening and stale ..

Why are you in this thread, R447???

Natasha @R448 ? sorry I didn't know you were here. Say Hello to Daddy Wagner, doll

Did Ava ravage any of these Wagner people?

Well , her husband ravaged little teenage me so, I would say yes

Late to this great thread and forgive me if it was eventually posted (I've only read about 300 replies so far), but where is the famous clip of Ava Gardner's appearance as the Mysterious Guest on What's My Line? in the early 1950s? If you need any proof of Ava's beauty, charisma and charm, have a look. And that's without the benefit of studio lighting and makeup, just primitive TV studio effects. She even seems to charm the bitchy Dorothy Kilgallen!

Will someone kindly please post a clip? I'm too lame and will fuck it up.

TIA!

[quote]Also, Wood and Wagner were magazine stars, not really actors, unless I missed their famous Macbeth at the Shubert theatre or any other serious acting effort, other than Kazan.

No they were Movie Stars. There were Actors and there were Movie Stars and rarely one could be both. Brando was both.

Brando was one bloated fraud. Most overrated actor in the history of humanity. He was lucky to get to star in Leigh's best vehicle for his film debut. It was downhill from there, the worst being how whiny little performance in the godfather. He's only ever good in ' reflection in a golden eye', playing himself = a mentally deranged closeted slob.

And don't start me with the ' he changed film acting for ever ' YEAH, FOR THE WORST.

^ TRUE! Somebody had to say it, though several of Brando's 1950s performances were self indulgent abominations.

Thank God for R456

Ava on What's My Line?

Bask in her beauty!

One more try with Ava, who appears around the 15;55 mark.

I give up. HELP!

Go to youtube.com and google it yourselves....it's worth it.

Lauren Bacall was fabulous looking as a model, and in her first year or two in Hollywood.

She tumbled into looking hard so fast, though.

But at the beginning she was divine.

The Ava whatsmyline thing is only proof that she couldn't act whatsoever. She was one of the least amusing secret guest, and the most second-hand embarassment inducing. What bothers me is she never tried to do something about it, instead complained in her autobio that 'nobody care to give her acting training'. And on top of that she 's Weinsteining less powerful actors. Hard pass

It's very rare for successful fashion models to succeed as actors as big and for as long as Bacall did. Many try, but for every one Lauren Bacall there are 10 Cindy Crawfords.

[quote]r463 It's very rare for successful fashion models to succeed as actors as big and for as long as Bacall did. Many try, but for every one Lauren Bacall there are 10 Cindy Crawfords.

A difference with Bacall, though, is at least she always planned and trained to be an actress. She was cast in two BWay shows before going to Hollywood, even though (I think) one ran for just a few nights and the other closed out of town. And she took a lot of acting classes. So it’s not like she was a Cybill Shepherd type who’d never done anything else.

Still, she was quite limited - more of a type than an actress. And after her startling debut she had very few hits. Two of her biggest mid-career films (Designing Woman and The Cobweb) only came to her because Grace Kelly retired.

Bacall was super dedicated to everything she did, including being a raging grade A cunt on wheels. Sidenote, I was curious to see how many top 10 hits she had = 3. To have and have not/how to marry a millionaire/murder on the orient express. I checked every decade, and was shocked that in the 30's, Maureen O'Sullivan put a handsome 7 movies in the top t'en box office list, only 1 of them being a Tarzan. I always thought that very pretty lovely Lady was somehow B-list... Not so.

A former coworker of mine was in a Jason Robards play in the late 60s and said Bacall was a big drunk, with one of the foulest mouths he ever heard.

(Which is fine, of course.)

It isn't brain surgery, r460....

Bacall is quite good in "Murder on the Orient Express". A bit over the top in some scenes, but when the character stops being fake and lets her true self be seen, she's perfect! You can see why the producers put up with her foul mouth and (alleged) wardrobe lifting! And BTW it's really too bad that Brannaugh had to massacre that character in the remake, because he wanted the focus of the finale to be on a Poirot triumph. That's not what the story is about.

Anyway! Bacall is one of those actresses who's "good within her range". She's terrific at playing chilly bitches, but the fact is, when she was young and at her most photogenic, there weren't many chilly-bitch roles available to her. She was a name in the 1950s and was under contract to a studio, so the studio shoved her into every "The Girl" role coming out of the film factory, and she isn't very good in most of them, and that's really tarnished her legacy. She just doesn't have the warmth or innocence to play a 1950s "The Girl", there was a reason she made her name in Noir films and not bright fifties movies. Her dark side totally fit into Noir roles, and so did her angular features. For her at least, it was a pity that the fifties offered so few roles for grownup, sophisticated, complicated women with a dark side, because that was when she made the bulk of her films.

I don't think Ava looks "beautiful" per se at R468. Striking, yes, as always. But her face is starting to look a bit long, hard, and mannish (and the makeup isn't helping). A little.... drag queen-y.

She did have a great head of hair, so there's that.

My guess is Bacall was very naive and starstruck when she arrived in HW at 17? 19? and discovered very soon that being bullied by her mentor, cheated on by her drunkard closeted old husband (aka the walking ashtray) who didn't want anything to do with children and surrounded by pretentious hypocritical geriatrics who pretended to be a couple or mafia adjacent assholes was less fun than it seemed back in the village

Gardner was still young when she was relagated to hagdom and supporting parts, like in MAYERLING and was very bitter to be forced at her age, to give space to the dazzling young Deneuve, who could act even less than she. BTW, did you know that very young Catherine, before she took the Bardot route, was a piquante brunette, and was discovered by Mel Ferrer, who thought she was the spitting image of hif wife Audrey ?

Today they'd be cast as snow-white and the evil queen in a live action disney

I did not know that Deneuve was a brunette, R472. She's lovely, but...

It's like imagining Elizabeth Taylor as a blonde, or Marilyn Monroe as a brunette.

Here's a childhood picture of Catherine Deneuve, where you can see her amazing bone structure starting to emerge, and a middling hair color that's somewhere on the dark blonde or light brown spectrum.

She was right that a more dramatic hair color would set off her beauty, and even more right to go blonde. Because yeah, with darker hair, she looks too much like Audrey Hepburn.

this pic is actually giving me a stiffy

Gary Cooper had that marvelous profile. But man, when he hit middle age, he hit it hard.

Here's Ava in "Mayerling", she would have been in her early forties when this was shot. She was still very striking, but she looked her age and more.

Only a few actresses of that time stayed photogenic at that age, Katherine Hepburn being the most obvious example. Joan Crawford stayed striking through her forties, but not always in a good way.

Hoe did Bacall and Streisand get along during the making of that dreadful-I-can't-remember-the-name movie?

[quote]R471 My guess is Bacall was very naive and starstruck when she arrived in HW at 17? 19?

Not too naive to start fucking a married man...

the very heterosexualist Gary Cooper, symbol of american masculinity

R467, Jason Robards was the one who was the big drunk with one of the foulest mouths anyone ever heard.

It set her further apart from Françoise, r475....

But a VIRGIN when she was picked by Mr much older big star

I remember when I was a teenager someone told me that Catherine Deneuve once had a sister who was even more beautiful and talented that she was, being shellshocked. I had nerver thought for one second that Deneuve had human parents, or human siblings

Ava looked natural and beautiful on WML, much more so than any other Hollywood star. She seemed extremely hesitant to open up, possibly because her marriage to Sinatra was going so poorly at the time.

In 1947 Producer Joe Pasternak threw a cocktail party at his home. Among the guests were Deanna Durbin, Jeanette MacDonald and Gene Raymond, Nelson and Ann Eddy, Robert Stack and his mom, who was a close friend of MacDonald, as well as Kathryn Grayson, Lana Turner and Ava, Jose Iturbi and Lauritz Melchoir. Columnist Hedda Hopper was also in attendance.

Pasternak was trying to re-team MacDonald and Eddy in a film project at Metro. He had just completed a film with MacDonald and Jane Powell, which would be released in 1948.

Eddy, who always drank too much, got touchy-feely with Stack and cornered him. Stack used his knee on Eddy before shoving him. Eddy fell against a pedestal on which the Pasternak's had a priceless urn placed. Eddy staggered out and wasn't see again that evening. MacDonald and Raymond drove Mrs. Eddy home and Pasternak lost much of his interest in reteaming Jeanette and Nelson.

Pasternak asked Hopper to not run the story and she didn't after he promised future exclusives to her. Privately, however, she henceforth referred to Nelson Eddy as "Nelly"

[quote] How did Bacall and Streisand get along during the making of that dreadful I-can't-remember-the-name movie?

[italic]The Mirror Has Two Filters

Catherine et Françoise

[quote] Eddy, who always drank too much, got touchy-feely with Stack and cornered him

Poor Bobby..fighting everyone off his pretty little ass

[quote] The Mirror Has Two Filters

I remember this, it was AWFUL; I felt really bad for her. Harvey should never have done that.

The reason Bacall didn't win is that most in Hollywood hated her on a personal level.

Well also, Bacall’s wasn’t a very demanding part. Or even a very large one.

To be fair, though, the part Binoche won for isn’t really supporting... her film has three leading roles.

According to Wikipedia:

"Gene Raymond was bisexual and his marriage to Jeanette was rocky from the start, with Raymond physically and emotionally abusing her, and having affairs as early as their honeymoon when MacDonald discovered Raymond in bed with Buddy Rogers. Raymond was arrested three times, the first in January 1938 as verified by a court document, and also in England during his army service for his behavior. Raymond’s wedding to MacDonald, orchestrated by Louis B. Mayer forced MacDonald to become Raymond's beard and the 1938 arrest resulted in Mayer blacklisting him in Hollywood for almost two years.

Biographer E. J. Fleming also alleged that Eddy had confronted Raymond for abusing MacDonald, who was visibly pregnant with Eddy's child while filming Sweethearts which ended with Eddy attacking him and leaving him for dead, disguised in the press as Raymond recovering from falling down the stairs.

At that time Mayer adamantly refused to allow MacDonald to annul her marriage and elope, the situation ending with MacDonald losing her baby at nearly 6 months.The boy was named Daniel Kendrick Eddy and Nelson buried him (or his ashes) on private property in Ojai, California."

So was Jeanette simply asexual?

r494 The freaks are coming out of the woodwork once again. Nelson was well known as being completely GAY and had a string of affairs that caused many, including Mr. Mayer, a great deal of consternation.

The Wikipedia remarks about Raymond are from a book written by a crazy lady who was desperate to turn the gay Eddy into a macho man and the hero of her book. The only way in which she could do it was by perpetrating more lies than our last President perpetrated. She was creating "Fake News" long before the term existed.

These fan freaks surface frequently in an effort to make their stories real.

Eddy was forced into a marriage by Mayer after his affair with Tyrone Power, on loan from Fox for "Marie Antoinette" enraged both Mayer and Zanuck.

Eddy's wife was several years older and willing to tolerate his drinking and affairs, providing they were discrete.

Nelson Eddy was blessed with a beautiful voice but was a mean and nasty drunk.

Thanks for the info.

This thread will soin be ending, so I want to Thank all of you for your contribution, and Thank also the great cast, without whom all of this wouldn't have happened. They made us love the movies. I would like to dedicate this thread to Mr. Robert Stack, I also want to Thank Misses Ava Gardner, Lauren Bacall, Audrey Hepburn for their magnificent CONTRIBUTION, all of the posters for their good spirit and great gossip, this has been a quality thread... Oh the music already, let le finish, the great cast of ' the Lady and the bullfighter', everyone and anyone who' s ever been naked and sweaty on film, and, and THANK YOU ALL

Was Bacall that bitter or heartbroken over Frank Sinatra? How badly do you all think it affected her and did it affect her for the rest of her life, in your opinion? If it is true that they had an affair as Bogart lay dying, I think she deserved getting publicly dumped by him. Do you?

R469- I never knew all of that about Bogart. I guess I bought the Bogie and Bacall love story, hook, and all, lol. He seemed to have spoiled her and I thought he was devoted to her, especially given his age and looks. You would think so , anyway. Was he bisexual? Oh well, another Hollywood image shattered, lol! 🎶We had it all, just like Bogie and Bacall🎶

R500, Bogart had a side piece, probably more than one. The woman who made his wigs was his main mistress and she later talked, a lot.

R499, Sinatra was a shithead unparalleled, he makes Bacall look like Debbie Reynolds. Bacall had a long marriage to the drunken Jason Robards after Sinatra, and various affairs after that. If her bitterness came from a relationship, it most likely wasn't from Sinatra.

[quote]The reason Bacall didn't win is that most in Hollywood hated her on a personal level.

I think most in Hollywood at that time barely knew who she was other than her Bogart-Bacall films. Bacall lived in New York since the 1960s and rarely worked in movies. They had no reason to hate her on any level. That must have ticked her off!

My favorite Lauren Bacall film and performance - the neurotic lesbian in Young Man with a Horn (1950). The role fit her perfectly and she was awesome!

Wasn't Bacall given an honorary Oscar just a few years before she died? So there must have been some love and appreciation for her in modern Hollywood. There are so many stars who never achieve that honor.

She really lost the competitive Oscar because she wasn't all that special in a small role in an awful film. She was only presumed the winner because of her earlier fame, not because of that undeserving performance.

Her Broadway stardom in three huge hits, APPLAUSE (Tony Award), WOMAN OF THE YEAR and earlier in her career CACTUS FLOWER was genuine. And her 2 autobiographies are brilliantly written and considered among the best ever of celeb bios.

[quote]Wasn't Bacall given an honorary Oscar just a few years before she died?

Are you crazy? She was never awarded anything for her movie roles, honorary or not. And she shouldn't have been. They don't give honorary Oscars for someone because they're still alive unless they have a substantial body of work, such as Barbara Stanwyck in 1982.

r504, Bacall was given an honorary Oscar in 2009 for the body of her work. You're the crazy one.

She's a legend; he's completely forgotten (except for eldergays on DL).

I guess she had the last laugh.

[quote]Also, Wood and Wagner were magazine stars, not really actors, unless I missed their famous Macbeth at the Shubert theatre or any other serious acting effort, other than Kazan.

They did Cat On A Hot Tin Roof on British TV (it was shown on newtwork TV in the US as well), with Laurence Olivier and Maureen Stapleton. Is that a serious enough acting effort?

[quote]Bogart had a side piece, probably more than one. The woman who made his wigs was his main mistress and she later talked, a lot.

Verita Thompson was her name, I think. She cashed in on the Bogart-Bacall interest after Bacall wrote her autobiography. I read her book and all she was able to claim about thier "affair" was a one-night-stand she claimed she shared with Bogie when sudden rain caused a flood and kept Bogie in downtown LA with her, unable to get back to Holmby Hills. Obviously she read Bacall's book, because Bacall mentions that night when Bogie couldn't make it home.

The hairdresser's claim just smacks of having read Bacall's book and finding the one night she could claim she could have slept with Bogie, during his marriage. It didn't ring true. If she and Bogie had an ongoing affair, she certainly didn't write about it, when she had the chance. (She did write about dating Bogie, pre-Bacall.)

[quote]She's a legend; he's completely forgotten (except for eldergays on DL). I guess she had the last laugh.

R506 I'm not sure, are you talking about. It can't be Bogart and Bacall, because that would be ridiculous.

R507, on Wood's part yes, but did you SEE Wagner in this ???

R508, Thompson's relationship was supposed to have begun before he was married to Bacall, and ran for 14 years. She only became his hairdresser later. Are you saying her entire story is fabricated? You actually think Bogart was faithful to Bacall during their marriage?

Bacall was what, the 4th Mrs. Bogart?

I would assume that any man who's married for the 4th time is a shitty husband, and that marriage #4 would have gone bust as well, if it'd had enough time. No, they worked really well as a screen pair, and she was the wife who was around when the smoking caught up with him, but it sure doesn't sound like a great real-life romance.

Bacall regularly did projects in California and was not liked by the people who worked with her. She was so nasty that one hairdresser refused to work with her again.

Nastier than Betty Buckley?

Betty Buckley is a hot box of crazy by many reports, but is she mean? Narcissistic and unstable, maybe, but I'm not sure she's mean.

Bacall sounds like she could be quite mean.

R501- Thanks, if she wrote a tell all book, I would LOVE to read it! I totally agree with you about Sinatra. I have never liked him, he was a bully and I despise bullies. All bullies are cowards. The way he had to have mob guys around him all of the time to make him feel like a big man was vomit inducing. I have never understood why Ava was attracted to that ugly little bastard. Dean Martin was everything Sinatra wished he was, imo , and a better singer ad well .

It's a weird thing when a straight guy comes out and denies fucking a beautiful women.

He could have had an Oscar AND some top shelf pussy.

What an idiot.

R514 Keyword - mean

[R392]: Gore Vidal reportedly claimed he had seduced Astaire. And I seem to remember a connection between Astaire and close friend, choreographer Hermes Pan, who actually resembled him.

Oh hon, Betty Buckley is as mean as it gets.

If it's true that Ava did some scissoring with Lana, what did she do with Lena?

^ Everything else? Lena loved Ava's breasts, she talked about them on the Dick Cavett show and burst out laughing after.

Ava liked the pole AND the hole.

Okay, I get that.

[quote]Thompson's relationship was supposed to have begun before he was married to Bacall, and ran for 14 years. She only became his hairdresser later. Are you saying her entire story is fabricated? You actually think Bogart was faithful to Bacall during their marriage?

What right have I to "think" he was faithful or not? Why should I think so, because you say so? Where's your proof? A lot of people have written books about Bogie. How many serious ones (not Darwin Porter's, if he ever wrote one) claim he cheated on Bacall?

As I said, Verita Thompson's book names one night when they slept together, when he was married to Bacall. There's no way to prove it, and it comes off as BS. If they were doing it all the time when he was married to Bacall, why doesn't Thompson say so?

* And no, I didn't say her entire story is fabricated. Where did I say that? If they had an affair at one time, that's not the point. I was only talking about what she says about their degree of intimacy during his marriage to LB.

R523 = new to Datalounge

I haven’t read the whole thread yet, has anyone mentioned the abortions or lesbian affairs?

From a movie about Chavela Vargas:

[quote] I was at Elizabeth Taylor’s wedding.

[quote]Everybody went to bed with someone.

[quote]I woke up with Ava Gardner.

Lots of lesbian affairs

R518

Having no idea who Hermes Pan was, did a quick Google search; damned truly did resemble Fred Astaire.

This thread frightens me. Homosexuals should be building shrines to sex goddess Ava Gardner, NOT tearing her to pieces. This behavior only confirms the terrible stereotypes I have heard about the viciousness of the queen (gay slang for "homosexual").

R529 Someone already did that. It ended up at Frank Sinatra's house in Palm Springs. Gays all go to Palm Springs just to worship at Ava's shrine (not really).

R529 = new to Datalounge

Didn’t realise William Holden was quite something when young. More so than Stack. Would like to think he tried cock occasionally.