A Question for DL'ers from Europe

In fact, if you have grandparents or even great grandparents who were born in Ireland and you can prove that with copies of birth certificates, etc, you can pay a fee and get an Irish passport and Irish citizenship. Since Ireland is a member of the European Union, you could, in theory use that citizenship to work in other European countries. I wouldn't be a surprised if a few other countries have similar rules. (just doing a casual search, Italy has something a bit similar, and even Germany has a program for citizenship for people of German ancestry). Since almost every country in Europe is declining in population at the moment, I suspect that they would welcome educated immigrants of European extraction- but a person might need to relinquish American citizenship to get citizenship in another country. At this exact moment in history, I think prudence would dictate that people stop moving the hell around for a while. Reconsider this question in a year or two, OP, when people around the globe are not leery of people from other countries arriving with a full complement of infectious viruses.

Europe's hordes of Muslim migrants/invaders has been a disaster for them. Perhaps Westerners with a shared sense of history/culture would work out better.

R2 well, some might disagree, but personally I’d say that Americans aren’t a good cultural fit, either. Just because we’re classed in the same hemisphere, doesn’t mean we have all that much in common. You all scarpered in the first place for a reason...

Anyway, Britain is a tiny island with no room for another influx of people, unless you all emigrate to the Moors, deepest darkest Wales or the Scottish Highlands.

I'd be happy to be able to go back to Scotland. i hate this shit here in America. I promise i'm not a loud mouth Trump lover.

It wouldn't be easy, the Democrats would be considered a centre-right party in most European countries and so even the left would be screaming about the deadly socialism of their new homes.

Stay in your fucking country.

There are a lot of American expats living in Europe, especially the more desirable places. They contribute a lot in raising money for charity, and that is appreciated. However, their behaviour and attitude can leave a lot to be desired; specifically their insincerity, disrespect, and arrogance.

Agree with r3. You need the ability to fit in - I'm not sure Americans can or want to do that.

Also being American does not have the cachet it did in the past. No one will be rolling out a red carpet for you.

A friend with three grandparents born in Italy got herself an Italian passport several years ago. It’s good for the entire EU; she could legally work and reside in any member country. She did not need to give up her American passport/citizenship to do this. She lives in the US at the moment, but I think she’ll retire abroad.

i would never move somewhere and expect anyone to roll out the red carpet because i'm American. i don't consider myself better than anyone at all. Nor would i "expect" things to be the way it was in the U.S. That would be EXACTLY why i would want to live somewhere else BUT here.

It would make an interesting experiment or TV show, move some southern state Republicans to a democratic socialist country and watch how they cope.

American fat hoes would pig out, cram up, and cause Ireland to submerge into the sea.

If you have the option of citizenship of an EU country then take it up. Be careful about tax and national service committments though.

r12 because there are already no fat hoes in all of Ireland lol.

[quote]It would make an interesting experiment or TV show, move some southern state Republicans to a democratic socialist country and watch how they cope.

They wouldn't even get that far. They'd quit as soon as they are told that they'd have to give up their guns.

R11, yes I can't imagine the Repugs enjoying a peaceful life in say Denmark or Norway. Great health care, great education and child care...why would anyone want that???? Their idea of 'Freedom' is not my idea of 'Freedom"

Scotland is fairly empty, so some of you could come back here, as long as you promised to dump your firearms, the Trumps, and high-fructose corn syrup into the Atlantic on the journey over.

r15 and r17 i can't even begin to tell you how many Americans are against and don't own guns. That would be a huge reason behind leaving the US behind. and most of us HATE high-fructose corn syrup. r16 many of us are all about universal health care, child care and education that doesn't involve loans for 40K+. Please, we are not all trumptards that don't care a shit about ALL of our people. The US is all about capitalism and i hate that our country puts that above all else. this place sucks in terms of actually caring about the people of our nation, rather than the almighty dollar over anything else.

Scotlands fairly empty because most of it is mountains and hills, not exactly great for placement.

Has the added advantage of maybe going independent and rejoining the EU though.

Plenty of space on the central belt, Fife and the Borders though.

The U.K., France, Spain, Italy & Germany are off-limits. Already too crowded, and having problems with migration. We really don’t need or want you.

Do feel free to populate Eastern Europe, though. There’s plenty of room, lots of potential for growth, and you might nicely reinvigorate the place at least in terms of economy and trade.

R18, you sound overwrought, which won’t go down well over here. We tend to tease.

I never said every American had guns, or a HFCS addiction. I’ve visited America several times, and I know there are many million of decent, civilised, cultured people there. There’s a reason why people still head there, not just to earn a buck, but to enjoy the possibilities of a free (albeit slightly chaotic) democracy.

The US no longer seems to appeal to you, so come to Scotland and see if you like it. The weather is mediocre, but benign: no tornadoes or forest fires. There’s not much violent crime, but there will be shouty drunk people on the city streets on a Friday night. The food is surprisingly good. There are good museums, galleries, bars and theatres.

Our politics are currently a little fraught, but most of us are trying to ignore them as much as possible. We may bee out of one Union and into another soon. Or we may be out of both. Or maybe nothing will change.

On thing to beware of: visitors here always tell me that they are surprised that strangers talk to them: in shops, in bars, at the bus stop, in the doctor’s waiting room. It’s apparently not normal, but we are used to it, and in fact I found people pleasantly chatty in New York too, so maybe it would suit you.

Ah, one last word of warning, I read a post here recently saying that Scots had a hard life because of all the industrial pollution and the horrific weather. It did make me smile a little: industry in Scotland now is more likely to be biotech than shipbuilding or steelmaking, and the weather is unexciting but not harmful to health!

r21 you can't all just inject your sperm on a ship toward the new Colony into an virgin/uncolonized country, then just throw your hands up and say "fuck you lot" when things go south. many of us left for the right (and same) reasons from those countries, tried to make a go of it, and now want to leave for the right reasons. plus, we have a great work ethic because we never get the vacations and healthcare benefits that you do. if we came without entitled American attitude, it would probably be a benefit because none of us have ever had actual human rights that have been of benefit to us. We'd probably be grateful for what your countries offered us.

r22 thanks for that post. i am a total introvert but for some reason i can chat up a stranger at the most offbeat of places with random banter. I like random town events. i love beautiful scenery and wild weather. i think i would love to live there for at least a few years because it's always been a place i've been drawn to.

Would Mexico welcome back Mexican-Americans?

I know Americans aren't exactly popular right now, but no-one deserves to suffer in Fife.

Ah, r26, the Fife coast is nice, just stay away from Glenrothes!

Only if you learn how to speak quietly.

R28 Put them in Glasgow, no worries of having to be quiet there.

“It would make an interesting experiment or TV show, move some southern state Republicans to a democratic socialist country and watch how they cope.”

From my experience with dealing with American expats from the South (pretty much all of them were conservative), the following will happen:

They will be even more racist in their new country and expect special treatment because they are better than the other immigrants.

They will be shocked to find out that “I want to speak to the manager” does not work in other countries and they will complain about it constantly.

They will be shocked to find out that doctors in Europe do not prescribe pills like candy and they won’t be able to get their happy pills here. They will complain about it constantly.

They will expect everyone to speak perfect English and will bitch about French people speaking only French in France. How dare they…

They will complain, complain, complain and eventually will go back to the US.

r30 i would agree with your assessment of US Southerners.

I enthusiastically second what R28 said.

Also - if you are going to live in a non-English speaking country then you have to learn the language otherwise you will have a tough time living there.

r31 No, it's not. It's the same shit.

r33 i'm sorry to respectfully disagree. we are not all the same at all. we watch the people in the South and the way they act with disdain. And of course the stupid hollywood hoes. you cannot generally put all of us in one specific category, because we aren't. please stop with the generalization and climbing on the band wagon. it's disrespectful of those who wholeheartedly hate what mainstream media US portrays.

i guess we could also find some stereotypes for you, but i'm not. i just generally think that some of us want to go back to our roots.

The UK is a revolving door for Americans. So many claim to want to live here permanently when they arrive, but the vast majority are gone within two years or less and spend the entire time bitching about the lack of tumble dryers, garbage disposals, mixer taps, window screens and most importantly ranch dressing.

We *already* have hordes of Americans "visiting" every year, OP.

^ and how small the apartments are. And where's the air-conditioning?!?

“Why are British refrigerators so small?!”

I know, right, R35!

I remember in an episode of "The Amazing Race" - the teams were going to London and one of the contestants said, "Great! They speak English there." lol

I knew an Australian woman who had an affinity for Ireland. She wasn't born there, hadn't been there, had no relatives or people she knew there either. She did her research, left a good job, sold her house and uprooted her family to go and live there. She was back home within two years.

It was a culture shock for her not only in the lack of amenities she was used to, the accented English they spoke, the shit weather, etc., but also the different world view and approach to things. And the locals - while not hostile - were not friendly either. Yes, she was reckless and should have at least visited to get a feel for the place, but I kind of admire people willing to roll the dice in life.

I guess my point is no matter how similar you think you are culturally to another country/people (Australians and Irish - they get on, right?), the reality is very different. I found this out for myself when I visited the US.

R26 They'd feel right at home in Fife.

It's got the buffalo farm there!

The first Europeans who went to America were mainly Spaniards, Portuguese and English.

r40 when I taught English overseas it was really funny to see who ended up sticking together socially.

Kiwis and Aussies, always. English, Irish, Scots together. Canadians and Americans. The few South Africans tended to get along with the Kiwis and Aussies, if there were only a few North Americans in the mix the Brits would join their colonies. If it came down to North Americans or the British, the colonies tended to be split (older with British, younger with NAs).

Bizarre social experiment.

R42 Ya fergot us!

Well, agressive American imperialism is sufficiently present in Europe. And it is extremely harmful. The fact that you think Europeans should think like you, live like you, be in your horrible and ridiculous puritanism, is extremely annoying. Even more paece that your different ideologies are imposed on us. Like Wokism and cancel culture bullshit. Our countries are millennia with strong History that we will never erase and because of that your journalists and politicians allow themselves inappropriate remarks for months now. We reject all of this altogether because it is pure human regression.

No, really stay where you are.

R43, all of the countries you mentioned were “our colonies”.

R45, as a fellow European, may I just make a recommendation:

“Take a chill pill, pal”.

*cope.

I'm descended from a Macdonald laird from the Borders who moved here in 1776 to keep fighting the Brits (really)! I like to get drunk. I have auburn/blond hair and blue eyes. Can I come?

A blond and blue-eyed Jacobite? Who could refuse!?

r43 Interesting, and all completely natural of course.

It can be very tough for expats anywhere to break out of their bubble. It takes a lot of perseverance and learning the language is essential. This can take years.

To the OP: getting to and setting up in a new country is only the first hurdle. The hard work comes later if you want to make a success of your move. I think you need to make a commitment of at least 3-5 years because there will be tough times for sure. But if you can get through those, it will be a very rewarding experience.

I blame all the expat fantasy fare out there like Emily in Paris, Ted Lasso, Eat Pray Love, etc. Moving countries even with a package is hard, time consuming, expensive, and filled with bureaucracy. It all happens magically in the movies with the plucky American living happily ever after beloved by everyone in the end. Nothing like real life.

LOL, r50. Thanks!

Lol Americans are so ignorant. Most of Palestinians come from the Ottomam empjre. Turkey. They don't even come from that region to.begin with. But as always Muslims want to coax the world into their victimization. The Muslims colonized many countries in incredible bloodbaths, they were the first to establish slavery on the black people in Africa. after having colonized the north of Africa, nowadays they decimate the Christians of the East, the Christians of Indonesia ,in Syria, in Iraq, in Armenia, but they cry because Israel has a historic country. Sorry but the Hebrews are at home there. They only have one land and have the right to have a country.

Most U.S. Americans couldn’t handle moving to a different state in the U.S., much less moving to a different country.

r46 I've was referring to the ones with the Union Jack still on the flags.

This thread has been refreshing.

Oh! I'm Dutch too. Van der Voort New York...

Spain and Italy are blood countries. Any American who can prove national ancestry can go back to the Fatherland. In fact there is a huge queue in both countries at the moment of returning Americans.

I have one grandfather born in Scotland. I understood that if I were Canadian, that would be enough to get me to Britain. But as an American, I don't think it qualifies me for anything.

Nah, I wouldn't move to Italy. I like visiting, but I wouldn't want to start all over from scratch there.

My Scottish grandfather and his parents lived at 8 Crossgates, Bellshill, Wishaw before leaving and coming to the US in 1903. Would I want to live in Wishaw? Should I try and claim that address (it appears to be a car park now). I mean, if I were Jewish and it was in Palestine, I could claim it, so why not?

I think all the first-world countries should have open borders between themselves. I guess it would be a logistical nightmare? Maybe just the English-speaking ones. Back when I was 18, I thought there was surely some 18-year old British person who wanted to come to the US, so why shouldn't they just let us switch places?

R22/R23 sorry, you got the wrong end of the stick. I’m native British, lived in the U.K. almost all my life, with plenty of mates in Western Europe. And I’ve been posting here for a decade. Not quite sure what you were driving at or why you felt the need to lecture me about my own country.

Oh well, never mind. As you fucking were.

R35 yes, I’ve observed this.

In my University drama class there was a Texan and a Bostonian. While we made an effort to include both and they did try hard to fit in, something clearly wasn’t ever going to click in terms of culture. Even being polite and nice kids, still they were just somehow too forward, too outwardly driven and open, too upbeat, too much in general. Socially, they just stuck out like a sore thumb. In the end they went back to the States once our course was complete.

After a wave of gun slinging, delusional Deplorables and entitled Karens, European narions would start building walls to keep them out.

Americans: can we invade

Britain & France:

That's my situation as well, R60. I looked into it briefly at one point and it was not enough. I didn't know about the Canadian advantage.

R67 They already invaded Britain and France. Culturally colonized both countries.

Love this Thierry Henry meme hahaha btw.

I don't want to sound like (and am not) an insecure American, but I have questions for those who have weighed in on this interesting topic. I really do wonder if those who worry about Americans' reliance on high fructose corn syrup, guns, loud voices, insincerity, and all the other ills listed here have experience with Americans or are just bothered by tourists? When I've visited any number of countries those who live where I've visited have been very nice but it makes me question their sincerity then if the don't like Americans. Gun violence? Well, yes, and as said upthread you can go to many parts of the country where no one owns guns and are against their availability. But how many millions died between 1900-1950 because of the propensity of European nations to go to war?

I hesitate sounding reactionary, but this gross generalization (fat, violent, loud) doesn't apply to many I know. There is, I grant, a lack of sophistication in many parts of America but it's also a type of sophistication as formulated and defined by Europeans.

R70, I have a few American friends, talk to them regularly, and visit them every few years. Of course, not all Americans correspond with the stereotypes. There are certainly cultural differences between Europeans and Americans (I tended to notice them when engaging in deeper conversations), but these are not the issue--for me, at least.

The thing is, the US are big and they are very diverse. I like the West Coast, especially California, and generally like the vibe and people there. I've also been to the South, however, and--maybe Atlanta excluded from what little I saw there in my short visit--there's a very different vibe and mentality there. I don't think that the South, its particular form of conservatism, its religiosity, and its values would GENERALLY be a good fit for most Central and European countries. (Exceptions are always there, of course.)

Just my opinion.

R70, see R7.

R71, that's a very reasonable take and I agree with many of your points. Living in New England I find that visiting the Deep South to visit a brother (rural Georgia) that I am confused by their values as well. And you are certainly right that most Americans would not be a good fit in many countries -- even *if* they could find them on a map, which is doubtful. I guess the main problem with the question is that to respond we must all answer in generalities. I live in a tourist town and I will say that European visitors do seem more interested in the history and culture of the city whereas Americans want to go to bars and restaurants. Americans, like Germans and Chinese and young people, love to travel in groups. I've never understood it, but there you go.

R72, I did read R7 and when Americans' insincerity, disrespect, and arrogance comes up (I've no doubt that R7 has personal experience) I wish that they would give examples. In America, the "Midwestern nice" and southern "bless your heart" might be prime examples of insincerity. Is that what he means, I wonder. Disrespect and arrogance? I think if you socialize with some Europeans, there is always "the glance" when an American says something that finds your acquaintances reverting to their stereotypes of Americans. It would take more than my two hands to count the ways that European visitors have told me how Americans do everything wrong, while in America, so the disrespect and arrogance cuts both ways.

I had a professor who was Russian and she said that America gave the world five great cultural gifts that outweigh her ills: free museums, public libraries, jazz, modern architecture, and the films of Billy Wilder.

[quote] the vast majority are gone within two years or less and spend the entire time bitching about the lack of tumble dryers, garbage disposals, mixer taps, window screens and most importantly ranch dressing

Ha. I'm American but cannot begin to explain the obsession with ranch dressing. Personally, I think it's gross. The other items you listed, while I do use them (here in the US), hardly strike me as dealbreakers, either, but I can easily believe and imagine the whining that goes on about them. I don't hate my country, but (some) Americans are really ridiculous.

I'm American and not a fan of ranch dressing at all (or blech-cheese, for that matter), I prefer Greek dressing, Green Goddess or a well-seasoned vinaigrette.

I can't say I've ever complained about the lack of a garbage disposal and I've lived in a lot of apartments/homes over the years.

If I live in a place that has laundry facilities, it's most likley going to have a separate tumble dryer. The all-in-one washer/dryer units are not popular here. However, if I had the choice between an apartment/house that had a washer but no dryer (but room outside to hang my clothes), as opposed to no washer at all, I'd definitely take the former and make it work. I despise going to the laundromat.

I am fat (now) after 15 months of lockdown and not a lot of activity. I can sometimes be loud, but that is usually in the company of friends rather than just out in general, everyday public, and that's probably more because of how i grew up. My dad is one of those very "loud laughers" - an extremely animated man. If anything, I tend to be somewhat quiet but not to the extreme of being unfriendly and responsive with others.

R70 Always this way of reacting like a frightened virgin when someone dares to scratch you. Sorry but guns are not a lightly topic and if for you it is perfectly normal to own one you are the only ones in the world who think so. There must be a good reason.

Anyway, like all Americans who think they are the saviors of Humanity, you bring back the WWI & WWII in the topic again. The whole Europe participated and not just you, the US. If you intervened in 1917 and not in 1900, during the WWI, and then for the WWII, you completely forget that without France there is no USA. But the French do not spend their time reminding this to you all. Time has passed since 1945 and not 1950, and you have impoded your Marshall Plan on all of Europe with odious blackmail when France which nevertheless went into bankruptcy to save you from the British, did not ask you for anything in return.

It should also be remembered that America has forced several European countries to follow them in their numerous wars for oil which have completely destabilized the planet. It should also be known that your governments are involved in everything that is happening in Europe. Using the two world wars all the time as if no one had saved your fat asses before, is not only vulgar, rude and vile but it lacks honesty. I will not pity the first superpower which comes to make its crisis of ego everytime people are not telling you that you are perfect. Certainly not. They way you are so touchy feely is unbelievable.

And Western Europe did not participate in the oil hunt in the ME.

HA!

Western Europe followed your asses. If they didn't remember what American did?

Two words: French fries

R70 "What? I'm not the super heros portrayed in almost all of my movies and series??? .. BOO HOOOO BOOOO HOOOOO

*roll yes*

R70, you may not like to hear this, but you asked for clarification ...the insincerity I mentioned is the fake friendliness so often encountered in Americans, as a way of engendering warmth, approval and tangible things like hospitality or favours.

The disrespect and arrogance go hand in hand. Disrespect in being overtly critical of European habits, preferences, values and traditions and arrogance in assuming that the American way is better and Europe should therefore follow American directives for change. Much of this is based on a lack of understanding or appreciation of European history and culture.

R7

R7 and r80 I'm not at all involved in this dispute but I wanted to say that I was NEVER taught to think I was better than ourselves - be it race, place of birth, religion...anything really. For all my parents faults, we were taught to meet each other on one another's terms and to be open-minded and accepting of other people's ways.

I would hope you would understand that not everyone in America was raised to be disrespectful, but rather very curious of other cultures other than our own. My father roamed the world and lived in Australia for a time...he had an appreciate for culture and instilled it upon us. I would really like people to stop generalizing about America and maybe afford the same attitudes we were brought up to embrace.

*appreciation for culture

OP, a good place to check out what its like to live in Europe is to read expat sites. There are many groups as well on FB, but most are very cautious about letting in only people already abroad, so be aware of you try to join. These groups fall into two camps: either toxic positivity where you can only say good things about country in question and toxic negativity where it's a constant bitchfest. However, you can gleam the truth in between with the pros and cons. The problems people encounter can be really sobering at times especially those in relationship situations as a trailing spouse/partner or the foreign half of a couple. My point is to be prepared for the entire continuum of possibilities good and bad. Those in tinted lenses are often crushed.

Not that many people from my country living in US, so I would be fine with it. England would be fucked. But there aren't many Americans bragging about their English ancestry. It's always Irish, Italian, Polish...never English. Even though most white Americans are of English roots

I used to work at an international company and dealt with a lot of expats. I noticed that when it came to immigration, colleagues from India, Brazil, Russia, etc. took it very seriously and wanted to do everything right. Americans colleagues on the other hand did often not give a fuck.

Some truly believed that having an American passport meant being allowed to live and work anywhere. They were shocked to find out that they had to get a residence/work permit if they wanted to work in another country.

Interestingly, the Canadians never behaved like that.

As is true for people generally, so it’s true for us in America: the worst of us have the biggest mouths. I humbly ask our non-American DL brethren please not to judge all of us by their bad behavior.