Multi-Level Marketing Scams

My only experience is when I was working in a big box store. I helped a customer and then later she called the store to speak to me, telling me she had a job I might be interested in, but didn't tell me what it was. I agreed to meet with her, and it was fucking Amway, I was livid.

Thrive!

I think that lularoe was hoping people would think it was Lulu Lemon (an upscale yoga clothing company)

I have a high school friend who is knee-deep into juice plus. She tried to recruit me when she found out I was vegan. I had never heard of it, took me all of five seconds to go "Is this an mlm, they are Ponzi schemes" and she hung up and unfriended me on face book lol

The company was started with the money that Deanne Stidham won in a settlement after slipping on chicken grease in a Sam's Club

These have been around forever. Growing up, a neighbor sold "Beeline" fashions.

No, because I’m not stupid.

Also, in my social bubble, it’s not done. I know that sounds snooty, but you just don’t DO that. Everyone has real jobs.

Pyramid schemes. These have been around for ages and still manage to suck naive people in somehow.

Tijuana Skinnies: Lularoe saleswomen who have been invited by the owner Deanne to get a group discount on gastric sleeve surgery in Tijuana

Two of my brothers-in-law work for MLM companies in upper management. One is embarrassed by it and and wants to move out of Utah and do the same job in a more legit industry, but my sister won’t budge.

The other loves to talk about the psychological research they do and how all of it is poured directly into their recruiting materials. Retaining people is even bigger than recruiting, and they have it down to a science. It’s all very creepy and so is he.

My brother will be starting business school this year and he has already done two internships with BIL #2’s company, so soon we’ll have another one at Christmas dinner telling us about the latest developments in manipulation and mind-control.

“If you can get them to cry about their kids having a lower quality of life than they did, you’re IN!”

When I was right out of college and trying to decide what I wanted to do, my aunt lured my naive ass to her house for a “business opportunity.” She and my uncle had invited some of their friends and neighbors, too. As they started their spiel, I guess it must have dawned on the older people there: fucking Amway. I didn’t really know what it was but could tell some of them were pissed to have been tricked. I wound up leaving with some of the tapes and videos. When I got home my parents hit the roof and my mom called up my aunt and let her have it. Told her she had 24 hours to come get “that motivational shit” or it was going in the trash.

Fast forward 30 years later, same aunt was trying to embarrass me by bringing up stupid things I did as a teenager—in front of other relatives while we were at my dad’s nursing home—and I said, “yeah, but remember when you tried to get me into Amway?” That shut her fat trap right up.

It was surprising that Project Runway had Mary Kay make-up sponsoring one season and heavily promoted it

Primerica is a big one—even though they offer financial services, they have to keep growing their down line to make decent money. It really looked like the show On Becoming a God in Central Florida. Their tactic was to invite a newcomer to a meeting in which there was loud, happy music played and then Primerica members went up to the front to talk about how it changed their life. My spouse went to one of these creepy meetings and quickly realized she was the ONLY person in the room who wasn’t a Primerica seller and the whole event was geared toward trying to recruit her only. No pressure!!!

Another tactic: give new sellers a big financial bonus early on to get them to leave their fulltime jobs, then take away the bonuses after they bet their livelihood on MLM so they’re forced to continue in the company and seek their hearts out to survive.

Horrible people create these schemes.

*sell their hearts out, rather

This belongs in the “How to Know You’re White Trash” threads

R13 I didn't know Primerica was an MLM. A guy started talking me at the gym about it and gave me his card years ago. It's disappointing because MLM salespeople "lovebomb" you and some (straight) guys are deceptively good at it.

I thought Mary Kay was somewhere in the weird space between legit sales and MLM. Or is it pure MLM? Maybe pure MLM with an actually decent product?

DataLoungey Bitchy Anti-Mary Kay site

R117, Mary Kay meets the three main criteria — upfront investment; minimum sales or inventory purchases to stay active; success dependent on the recruitment of new people.

a co-worker pulled me into their office for an important meeting and tried to get me into Pre-paid Legal, i was mad

[...]

This thread inspired me to check on DL Fave Scooby Nickole. Holy shit, she's still balls deep in Thrive

Selling tacky leggings to fat women. Wish I'd thought of it.

LuLaRoe has a Datalounger or two working in their sweatshop.

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

I had a friend who lost his job as a firefighter after multiple DUIs, and he ended up selling pre-paid legal services as a last resort.

In the ten years since he first approached me, I haven't required legal services I couldn't obtain for free from my employer. However, he ended up commiting suicide and I've often wished I would've bought a basic plan if it meant he'd stick around.

Of course the company has ties to Mormonism. Utah is the king of MLM schemes. So many people looking to supplement their income and so many willing victims.

[quote]Utah is the king of MLM schemes.

Very interesting

r1 I had a similar experience working for a major retailer. A regular customer came in and gave me some brochures for a company he wanted me to work for. An investment company? Who can tell. The brochures were impeccably produced but very evasive. They showed people living the good life, essentially -- nice cars and nice suits and nice women -- but didn't explain what the company actually did.

Not too sure of the source, R28, but what the article says is spot on. I anecdotally witnessed it living there and wasn't associated with the LDS/Mormons at all.

I also remember someone telling me that Utah always has high white collar crime rates.

#BossBabe

#Momtrepreneur

#CEO

#AskMeAboutMyBusine$$

Thanks r30

LMAO

One of my first experiences with a MLM was Usana, which sells vitamins and supplements. Naturally, they're headquartered in Utah.

A couple of friends were obsessed with their products. I tried them and they didn't seen to have an effect.

Two friends of mine tried to get my into NuSkin. We are no longer friends.

When I was a kid, some family friends were involved in Melaleuca.

I see now it's headquartered in Idaho, so I wonder if there is an LDS connection with them too.

Many years ago, I worked on a small team of four people at a corporation. We literally sat facing each other all day long. Our “Team Leader” was a sneaky little fat bossy woman who had scams for days. She got involved with “Quixtar” for a while, and naturally, tried to recruit us. The older lady and I declined firmly. But the guy across from me fell hard. Team Leader didn’t pressure us after we said “no” (because she knew she’d lose her job if we reported it) but this guy was insufferable. His favorite tactic was “FOMO”, and he bragged about how he’d be able to quit this dumb job and we’d still be pushing paper for a living. He’d shake his head sadly and say “I’m gonna miss you guys.” and “Wife and I are doing another weekend in The Poconos, thanks to Quixtar” “we’re putting together another presentation for our employees. Sure you don’t want to get in on this? You’re my work buddies, I’ll take care of you.”

He did leave the company, don’t know whatever happened to him.

In the last couple of years, people I've been friends with in the past, but not really seen much of, have been contacting me about joining Arbonne. Like, no kidding, three people out of the blue wrote to me at the same time a couple of years ago, all saying the same thing: "I've always thought you'd be GREAT at a job like this!" They all used the same wording, so I knew it wasn't sincere, AND they were all people who knew me well enough to know that something like this is the LAST thing I would be comfortable doing. And yet they still asked, and then exactly 12 months later... they asked again! And they were asking my friends too, so we were all comparing emails without them realising.

Then I saw one of them online having a rant, because someone had suggested Arbonne was a pyramid scheme. She was so angry: "I can't believe anyone who knows me would think I would EVER support a pyramid scheme!" Except... it IS a pyramid scheme, by definition. So weird.

I've just been kind and said "thanks but no thanks", but other people I've spoken to about this, say they feel it's actually really insulting to trade on a friendship like that. I know it certainly made me feel really uncomfortable, not wanting to upset them, but not wanting to do it at all at the same time.

Arbonne founded in Orem, Utah and Melaleuca was founded by Frank Vandersloot, a Mormom. Vandersloot is also the richest man in Idaho because of it.

All of that is true, r30. The woman who wrote it is about as far on the autism spectrum as one can go while still being extremely high functioning. I’d love to witness one of her interactions with someone giving her an MLM spiel.

It was written for Jana Riess’s column and Jana was still active at the time, while Mette always has been. Jana also has the burden of converting as an adult, when she should have known better. So no surprise that most important reason was left out — the religion itself is a big self-improvement cult for people at their physical level. I know that sounds very harsh and Dataloungey, but it’s the truth.

Even though they’d never admit it, they’re praying their hearts out for perfection of every type, with physical perfection at the top of the list. Anything less is an affront to Heavenly Father, so even though the mangosteen, noni juice, and charcoal didn’t they work don’t they owe it to their daddy in Heaven to at least try the essential oils? Maybe then he’ll be less embarrassed by them?

Constantly being pushed to attain a completely unrealistic level of perfection is the #1 reason LDS women (and some men) are easy targets for these scams and the LDS men running the companies know that better than anyone.

It used to be harder to succeed with those tactics on non-LDS, but Instagram has changed all of that and now young women who have grown up thinking photoshopped thigh gaps are reality are being sucked in just as easily as Sister Allred with the patchy hairline.

One of my sisters has been a #bossbabe for several years now, selling Neora skin creams and other products (weight loss powders to add to your coffee, and some kind of hair loss treatment). Every product is a gamechanger. Then a few weeks later there’s some other gamechanger. It’s all such bs and I still don’t understand how she has fallen for this and still believes it will make her rich.

[quote]Multi-Level Marketing Scams

Yeah. I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness.

One friend of mine pushes Nikkin products on his social media.

Don’t look at me.

They're not quite MLMs, but I always feel bad for the hot Israeli and Arab guys selling salt scrubs, moisturizers, scented oils and other stupid shit at the mall. They almost draw me in by being sexy and giving me attention, but I force myself to avoid eye contact and quicken my pace. None of that crap does what they say, but hot, charismatic people have a way of disarming one's common sense.

Are Goli gummies MLM? Everyone on the fucking internet is selling those things. Nutriburst too.

A few years ago there was a hedge fund billionaire named Bill Acker who got into a complicated scheme where he was trying to 'short' Herbalife so he could make a lot of money that way. His method was to collect as much negative information about their shady business practices. Then he publicly presented it, claiming he wanted the public to 'know the truth' about Herbalife. It was a commendable thing, even if he did it for greedy reasons.

He dumped this massive amount of data online, mostly in the format of PowerPoint files. I downloaded them and spent a lot of time reading it. It was worth the time and effort to educate myself about them - they are about as evil as Scientology.

One new thing I learned was that they recently shifted their efforts to recruiting in Asia and South and Central America, since their name is mud now in the USA. But they had a massive drive to recruit Hispanic Americans, and they would have them set up storefront 'social centers' where people could stop in to have a shake/smoothie. It was like a franchise because the 'owners' were required to buy only specific equipment, a lot of it from Herbalife. There was even a specific shade of green paint that they were required to use. Also, absolutely NO signs out front to indicate Herbalife, and the windows were to be obscured so that you couldn't tell from outside. One day I was visiting my brother in Takoma Park, Maryland and I passed a storefront that looked just like what I'd read about. So i stopped and peeked through the windows of the closed social center, and I could see that it exactly matched the specified layout, and the shade of green paint.

Another thing I learned was that Madlyn Albright was willing to shill for Herbalife when they made a donation to her foundation. She had to sit there with the CEO and say nice things on video about all the sports things that Herbalife sponsors.

Empire is kind of like that. Funny story. When I moved to my new place I wanted hardwoods. I called empire. They sent this guy who was uber muscular. Not a 10 in the face but his body was sick. He was very flirty which I assumed was part of the sales pitch. He gives me a quote that was sky high so I balk. He does the let me see what I can do a few times and drops the price by thousdands. I am on the fence and we are standing in my kitchen, he is inches from me and he saiys "what can I do today to close this deal?" Yep. I fucked him. Floors are nice too.

When a cousin of my dad's became born again in the 70s he invited my mom and dad over because he said he had some life changing news he wanted to share with the. They thought he'd decided to go to seminary to become a minister, but it turned out to be that he'd become an Amway representative. He was into several MLMs after that over the years. Still is a big Christian and Trump supporter now, unsurprisingly. Mom says he's always been gullible.

Many women who worked for LuLaRoe said that they realized they were in a cult while watching Leah Remini's series "$cientology and the Aftermath"

MLMs love to target Mormons and hard-core evangelical Christians. Why? Because if they believe that shit, they're clearly gullible and prime candidates for these schemes.

Scientology is classic Multi-Level Marketing Scam, and the only "religion" that requires thousands of dollars of payment

r51 what about LDS tithing?

There's the whole "Nerium" toxic face cream crap. They now go by "Neora." The Federal Trade Commission is on the case.

R6 can I get her contact information? I’d like to place an order with her.

I really like the quality of Amway products. I swear by the SA8 laundry powder soap and love the body wash. I just order directly from their website so I don’t have to go through one of their distributors.

Beware of “The Pink Powder”.

Had some friends right out of college. (Well, I was anyway) that tried getting the rest of us to participate in some Amway thing that was not called Amway, but reallywas.

I think we were the first people they tried to pitch. They got so angry when we failed to share their enthusiasm. One of the friends was well off with a large social network. I think he was their biggest target and he later said to me “well, there goes that friendship.”

My sister lives in FrauLand, CT and I guess her coworkers sell this shit. She will always buy the shit and give some to me. Of all the stuff she’s purchased, I like the Norwex cleaning cloths the best. They are good.

I got roped into Nu skin , Morman based skin care company. These two flashy brothers that lived in Bel Air would host seminars at their houses. I bought 3 kits at $500 a pop. I was intrigued with their lavish lifestyle all thanks to Nu Skin. I was 20 and couldn’t see myself peddling moisturizers. Their products were good quality but pricey.

Not exactly an MLM, but I had a colleague (I taught college) who kept trying to get me into her “Co-Counsellinf” Circle. I finally told her that if I wanted therapy, I’d prefer someone who’d actually been educated in it and licensed to practice it. The people I knew in CC seemed creepy and manipulative. I’d rather trust my mental health to Ted Bundy.

I'm curious to see if there's a study investigating the overlap between MLM members and QAnon cultists.

One of my roommates was devoid of social skills and personality and he sold Cutco Knives

How has Avon sidestepped all of this?

R46, There is one not too far from me. They sell overpriced smoothies that sound absolutely vile. All with glowing reviews.

I did try it once to see what the big deal was about. Couldn't even finish it. Tasted like fake sugar with a weird aftertaste.

These woman all seemed to have a commonality. To be someone. To be special. To be empowered. To be loved. To be part of something. What a let down for their lives.

My partner and I did Market America for a year, brought on by a friend who is very successful in it and is also a Broadway producer. I just couldn't take the non-stop hustle-- cold calling friends and acquaintances from work, so forth. It just made me feel weird. We made our money back and got out of it. The guy who worked with the producer friend has never spoken to me since and was very angry with me when I couldn't go to the big conference or whatever. The whole thing was too "up with people" for our taste.

In one of the Chris Watts threads (his wife was heavy into Thrive) someone had some insight. A lot of women work dead end jobs that don't pay that well. There's no subsidized childcare in the US and the maternity leave policy is abysmal. Most women don't want to leave their kids but still need income so MLMs are presented as a perfect job. You get to set your own hours and do something that brings in a lot of money. And of course it doesn't work out that way, unless you get in on the ground floor.

For those who want to dig deeper into the shady world of MLMs. I listened to S1 of "The Dream" and quite enjoyed it.

An MLM is not the same thing as a Ponzi scheme.

R64 don't you mean "under taste"?

When my dad was home under hospice care, my cousin called and asked to come over with her husband. My mom said yes. Then she called back and asked if she could bring her niece - my parents hadn't seen this woman in 25 years. Mom said yes.

While my dad was dying in the bedroom, the niece and my cousin were trying to sell my mom some kind of MLM health drink.....it went on for more than an hour. Finally my mom asked them to leave.

Two years later, I'm diagnosed with cancer and undergoing chemo and radiation. Same cousin calls me and wants to come over. We were close as kids so I said yes.

She called back and wanted to bring her niece. I said NO - because I knew it would be another hard sell. It has made me very wary of her and I try to have as little to do with her possible. BTW she and her husband also take the supplements and have each had two heart attacks and all kinds of other health problems.....

It's sad because getting a job and keeping a job is hard. People who have had difficulty adapting to the working world think they are finally onto something.

At least in the past, Avon had something people wanted at a reasonable price rather than overpriced, offbrand diet crap. The actual direct sales people could do well rather than recruiting people under them. I think Tupperware was like this, too. Cutco is about mobilizing your social network as customers then having them recommend their network members and it's high quality if high priced merchandise.

r13 Primerica people are nuts. My brother got messed up with them for awhile. He was recruited by a guy name Charlie and they had us over for dinner one night so Charlie could sell us some insurance.

The guy ended his spiel with fake tears and dramatic pauses while telling us his mother, on her deathbed, BEGGED him to take Primerica to as many people as he could. Her last words were supposedly "Primerica can change the world."

I couldn't hold back the laughter. It was just so outrageous. My brother was pissed and didn't speak to me for months. Then he went broke somehow because of the group and came begging for money.

I was with Herbalife for about five minutes back in 1998. I walked away from it when I saw the guy who recruited me, who showed up in a BMW and wearing a nice suit, working as a stock boy at Zellers. He was 35 years old and the car belonged to his grandfather.

This, in my opinion, is the best example of MLMansion design — one part Tajik oligarch, one part Sam's Town fiberglass waterpark, one part celestial room, one part taxidermy gallery, and one part prison camp. Unfortunately, you can't see the latter two in these photos.

An MLM founder and his family lived in a few bare-bones rooms which were probably the equivalent of a 3,000 sq. ft. house while the rest of the house existed to show his true believers the lifestyle awaiting them once they sold enough liquid vitamins.

When he was stuck at home dying of cancer, he would put on his sparkly bronzer and a Liberace-of-the-West costume and host group after group after group. He did it right until the end, repeating the same "Aw, shucks...ah cain't believe Heavenly Father seen fit ta bless me lahk this...he must really love mah products!" lines and making the same corny jokes at each stop on the tour.

In his prime, the house had been used as an actual prison camp. Salespeople who reached a certain level would be invited to take part in a locked-down sales seminar. They would be picked up by a bus, hand over their phones, and pay for the privilege of being kept awake for day-and-night training sessions, regimented meals, and a couple of hours of sleep in a locked dorm.

Herbalife killed my cousin!

r55 Thanks for doing your part to enrich the horrible DeVos family.

Interesting:

The only difference between a Ponzie scheme and MLM is MLM there is a product. Ponzie there is no product being sold. The mechanics are the same.

Charles Ponzi could smell a freshly baked cookie from six blocks away, and here he is doing just that.

"LuLaRich" - Amazon documentary on LuLaRoe scam

82 posts and no one's mentioned Tupperware?

DL icon Anita Bryant at 23:28.

R83, if you are going to go down that road you might as well include girl scout cookies.

I have a relative by marriage big into Arbonne. She has a lot of allergies (legit, she’s not one of those nutters who fakes having Celiac’s or anything) so she likes their food and skin products. She pretty much just orders for herself and friends on occasion. Luckily she has a full time job and no time or interest in trying to make a career out of selling for them. But from what I’ve seen of the offers and incentives they are always pushing, I can totally imagine someone getting lured into thinking it could be an easy side business.

I’ve done freelance work for a small MLM. It never got so big that there was fallout and the entry price was small but man, the women empowering women bullshit never stopped and it was all a huge crock of shit. Like LLR, the Facebook live shows and the fake excitement needing to be generated nonstop was exhausting.

But a large number of people who worked at the office were nice and just trying to their job.

Pause at any point during this video to reveal a moment of DL catnip captured in amber.

I'm partial to 0:10 and 0:55.

A Facebook friend had been posting pics of herself in the morning looking bright and cheery and saying things like “Hangover gone! Just had my Snap and I’m good to go.” There we’re always a few others who’d post in the comments agreeing with her about how good they felt and weren’t Snaps amazing…

When people asked what a Snap was, she’d say “I’ll DM you about it” which was a giant red flag for me. I looked them up and its a MLM business called Velovita than makes micro-nutrient additives that promise the world. When I checked the profiles of the other fraus that commented on my friends posts, I saw that they were also posting pics about how amazing their mornings were. It was obvious they were all in the same pyramid and trying to make each other look credible to get more of their friends interested.

The dude in the pic below was previously prosecuted by the Feds for another scam business but these dumb ass fraus don’t know how to use Google so buy into the bullshit.

Hun, thanks for asking about the recipe for my #Velovita queso dip!!! Did you ever wonder what it would be like to be the #BossBabe, #LadyBoss, and #CEO of your OWN company that’s also a #Fortune500 company that you OWN all by yourself but it’s also a #Fortune500 company…but you OWN it and you’re the #BabeLady of a #Fortune500 company that you OWN?? Hun, you got this!!!!!

LifeSpring, anyone? BATSHIT CRAY!

R89, that was the funniest shit I've read today, hahaha! Funny 'cause it's true, as they say.

I know someone who knows someone who was in a helping profession (master’s degree) who quit her job to sell Primerica financial services. After she sold it to everyone in her Asian-American community, she ran out of people to sell to and asked for her old job back because she couldn’t make enough money to keep going. Kind of sad to see this happen with these horrible MLM scams.

On Becoming a God in Central Florida really hit the nail on the head in the first episode with Alexander Skaarsgard selling his heart out and not making any money.

I had coworkers who once tried to get me into Landmark Forum seminars (which was warmed over "EST" from the 1970s). I flatly refused to even give them any encouragement that I'd ever consider it for a fucking moment. They persisted. That combined with other factors made me leave that job after about 3 months.

I had already seen Landmark parodied in "Six Feet Under," which led me to look it up.

I had a massage therapist in the '90s who was inexpensive for the deep tissue work provided (not a euphemism, you filty whores). After a few months of being a client, the spiel began during a massage lauding the benefits of Avatar. I absolutely knew it was MLM and said so multiple times. Massage therapist eventually got defensive and explained, in tedious detail, how it was different from scam MLM because of the "self-development" angle.

I noped on out of there despite mourning the loss of a great massage therapist with low rates. I can't believe this MLM "course" is still going on, what with all the other self-help gurus that have popped up over the decades.

Meri Brown, one of those awful Sister Wives sells LuLaRoe on Facebook. She's one of their best salespeople because she has a huge group of fans that are willing to buy her crap, again and again.

I do give her some measure of credit. Out of all of those wives, at least she has a couple of side businesses (including a bed and breakfast) to see her through once that awful show finally gets cancelled.

For a while Rodan + Fields seemed to be recruiting many of my 40+ Facebook acquaintances. I’d get the weirdest, longest messages about skin creams from people I knew only slightly but had always assumed were too smart to get involved in something so dubious. There is something so pathetic about people desperately selling something no one wants to buy.

Absolutely no one starts a business to help the environment, provide jobs for a community, empower women, blah, blah, blah...

They do so to MAKE MONEY.

So, when these seminar clowns prattle on over how XYZ is not about selling clothes but rather about selling hope and empowerment, BEWARE!

It's all about money and nothing more.

Way back when I still used Facebook I’d randomly see posts from someone I knew in high school, and I noticed she’d always mention her lipstick. “Found the perfect shade!” “Lasted all night!” That sort of thing. Then one day, it drops: “So many people have been asking me about my lipsticks I’m hosting a makeup party!” I’m pretty sure no one ever asked her. I don’t remember the name of the product—it wasn’t Avon or Mary Kay, it was just lipstick. I kind of drifted off Facebook after that so I have no idea how successful her very obvious effort was.

I'd bet you that there is a huge overlap in the Venn diagram between the set of the people who go all in for MLMs and the set of the QAnon/conspirituality followers.

R99 absolutely, along with the health/wellness nutters. The Maintenance Phase podcast did a great episode on the road from wellness to QAnon.

r98, Limelife, guaranteed. I also have a friend who sells nail wraps. I feel bad for her because she is on disability and it's not a lot of money.

IN the early 90s when I lived in Ann Arbor Michigan, my car had to go into the shop for a few days and my insurance covered a rental. So I got a rental at Enterprise. The guy helping me out at Enterprise when I went out to the lot to get the car was very nice and seemed a bit flirty. So I decided to ask him if he wanted to meet for a drink someplace. He agreed. A couple of days later (I had my real car back), we met at one of the bars near Univ. of Michigan campus. We got to talking. Early on he mentioned he lived at a church. I realized then and there that he's probably not gay, or at least out to himself yet. So I asked about his work. He said Enterprise was just a gig and he was working on developing his own business. He started to describe it, being rather vague about the product. He said he got into it after listening to a motivational tape, which he happened to have with him and he said I should listen to it. He gave me the tape. I asked him more about the business. He got a napkin and a pen and started to draw a schema while describing how it works. When he got done explaining and drawing, he asked me what his drawing looked like.

I said a pyramid.

He hotly denied that he drew a pyramid and urged me to listen to the tape. He was just being friendly to get me into Amway to be his rep. Anyway, out of curiosity, I told him I'd listen to the tape and get back to him. He told me not to get in touch with him at Enterprise, but call him at the church.

I listened to about 10 or 15 minutes of the tape. It was all this motivational patriotic BS. I called him at the church the next evening and told him that it was not for me and where should I return his tape. He again said don't come to Enterprise, just come to the church and leave it with the office. I did and never heard from him again. I wonder how many other Enterprise customers he did this trick on?

Our neighbor down the road promotes and sells this shite Protandim She's done well apparently because she's got a new roof, new car purchased with cash, etc. I'm surprised to learn thanks to DL that it, too, is headquartered in Utah

[Quote]Protandim is a herbal dietary supplement marketed with unsupported claims that it can treat a number of medical conditions. The product is a patented[1] mix of five herbal ingredients and sold by LifeVantage Corporation (formerly LifeLine Therapeutics, Lifeline Nutraceuticals, and Yaak River Resources, Inc), a Utah-based multi-level marketing company.[2] The manufacturers of Protandim claim it can prevent or cure a wide variety of medical conditions, including diabetes and cancer.[3] In 2017, LifeVantage was issued a warning letter by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regarding illegal advertising claims on the company's websites suggesting that Protandim can help to cure various ailments, including cancer and diabetes.

My parents sold "Miracle Maid" cookware for several years in the 1970s. They would cook dinner in it for a dinner party at someone's house. They still have some of it and use it.

A cousin later tried to get them into Amway, but it didn't take.

My aunt sold Princess House crystal during the same time period.

They also had friends that sold Jafra, a line of skin care and cosmetics I think.

None of them are rich and none lasted long doing it.

I had two friends in college that got sucked into Amway. I think they spent $500 to attend a seminar in Michigan (this detail is a little blurry now).

Anyway, they tried to recruit me and the whole ordeal was like undertaking some secret mission. At first, I had no knowledge of them working for Amway. They had come from that seminar and soon after, called me to their apartment. I was to come alone and no one was supposed to know of this meeting. And when I got there, one of my friends came in with a notebook and a pen and started a lecture about active and passive income. He was really drawing houses and arrows and numbers. It was all really bizarre. He'd say that 80% of people will always be workslaves working 9-5 while the 20% emerge as winners with large passive income. And he'd ask me "Do you want to be part of that 80% or the 20%?" And then after all that presentation, he gave me an audio file to listen to which he insisted that I must. The audio file was basically a mindless bullshit drivel of an Indian couple with applauses from the audience that doesn't even name the company that they work for, let alone the actual mechanism of their work.

I was wary of the bullshit already but kept playing along. On a later meeting, again in their apartment, they had me on a video call with someone in Minnesota. This person was standing in front of a whiteboard and soon, started drawing arrows and figures on it. He started talking about products and recruitment and that's when I cracked it out that this is an MLM recruitment. Without thinking twice, I just said to the guy that this seems awful lot like a company called Amway. My exact words. The guy paused a bit and then, later asked me how I knew. I knew of Amway because my mom was sucked into it a long time ago. After that presentation which I did sit through, they gave me a day to decide if I wanted a part. I later rejected. Funny thing is that after I rejected it, my two friends went back to their usual selves acting like none of those meetings we had ever existed. There was never another mention of it after that at all. The whole thing had a creepy cult-like undertone.

For me, the worst part of MLMs is the idea that you basically have to be talking to god knows how many people 24/7 to break even, let alone make money. Fucking nightmare.

When I first got into the workforce back in the ‘90’s, I worked in sales for a large restaurant/entertainment complex, booking corporate parties. Over my first year, I built up a nice rapport on the phone with one of our best clients, setting up various events for his employer, a huge company. Eventually he asked if I’d like to meet for lunch because he had “a huge opportunity” for me. I worked on commission so, duh, of course I went. It was a fucking Amway push. As soon as he said the name, I got up and walked out of the restaurant. Bye bye steady commission.

Had a family member who had a decades-long alcohol & drugs (cocaine, meth) habit. He invited about 20 of us over to his house, on a Sunday. He wouldn't say why he invited everybody, but said it was very important. I was thinking he was going to tell us he was going into rehab, was quitting drugs, changing his life, etc.

Well, to his credit, there was some really good food there. However, after the food part, someone started giving a presentation on an easel. They never said the word "Amway," but that's what it was.

Tyra Banks had a MLM make up line - the people who worked for it said they were going broke selling here stuff. They had to buy so much of the product each week and they got no discount. The make up was also shitty.

re tyrabeuaty.

Kandi Burruss’ sex toys are MLM.

[quote]Limelife, guaranteed.

I was thinking Younique or LipSense, R98/rescue chick.

r111 Yep. So is Tamara's cbd line.

Think about it - why would a total stranger provide "a great opportunity for you." The world doesn't work that way.

The reason why devout Christians get hoodwinked into MLMs is because they believe in the concept of grace - the free gift of salvation in Christ.

By extension, they assume grace from other people all too easily, especially if they are in the Church.

So, when someone comes along offering a plan to be in your own business, the devout will interpret that as a blessing and a gift of grace - literally a Good News message to solve their financial worries.

Most of us are raised to buy into the concept of authority figures to know you better than you know yourself and what's good for you. All these snake oil salesmen have to do is look the part and push the right buttons (like, say the right buzzwords) to get their audience on their side.

A self-reliant person won't fall for someone who tells you that you lack something, and they know the perfect way to make you better.

R98, if "Lasted all night!" was a selling point, I wonder if it was LipSense.

I remember my stepmother coming home in a state of anxiety after — what else — a Mormon Tabernacle Choir (as it was called then) Christmas concert because over the course of the night her lips had gotten progressively tighter and dryer. She described them as feeling like they had been coated in crazy glue or nail polish that she couldn't wipe off. She eventually got it to break down a little with Vaseline and olive oil.

It turned out that my stepsister had done her makeup and sent her off without the other LipSense product which was supposed to be applied regularly over the lip color to disguise the feeling. That step was necessary because it was indeed like nail polish for lips. It even required a special solvent to remove it; something else my stepsister hadn't told her.

To provide a bit of context: I am also R10, so this nuttery is just par for the course.

When I first joined Facebook. I got friend requests from all of my HS friends. hit me up. At least 1 out of 10, were Herbal life, Juice plus or Amway asking me if I wanted to Maximize my earnings.

Oops. I didn't see R112 before I posted.

We have a number of lesbian friends - more than coincidental that they are all lesbians - that are very into the whole Essential Oils beliefs and programs. These are (were?) all very smart and accomplished women. They will not countenance the idea that they are part of an MLM scheme. We just don't even mention it anymore.

We also have two very smart and accomplished gay friends that are big proponents of the Landmark Forum. We've made it clear to them that we don't want to discuss it.

We have no idea what has come over these people. It's as if they all have split personalities. It's honestly a puzzle.

Thermomix.

Consultants push the kitchen appliance at sales demos at people’s houses. You get a discount if someone buys at your demo party. Salespeople try to sign you up to sell as well.

The consultants have to run a certain number of demos and make at least one sale a month or they’re out.

If some hot guy wanted to demonstrate sex toys in my house, I'd consider buying one.

Essential oils and Thrive. The fraus I graduated with are obsessed with both of them. Won't stop pushing them on others, espousing how miraculous they are.

They are all hag-like and/or morbidly obese. Why would anyone want to purchase products from them, that they claim are making them look/feel better when they all look like that? No thanks, "hon"!

My partner and I did Market America for a short time. We were able to make our money back, thank goodness. It was not a good fit for us--just a lot of motivational crap and all this very "Up With People" stuff that we both hate. The seminars were the WORST. I know two people who are rich and successful B'way producers, tho! So it works for some.

I still have a set of Cutco cutlery that we use daily from the mid 70s in perfect condition--just checked the website & they'll sharpen free, replace for free if damaged . . . who knew?

Do MLM people try to randomly recruit strangers? A couple times in my 20s I was approached while out shopping by complete strangers who eventually mentioned job opportunities. The first guy seemed like he was cruising me at a mall bookstore. After a bit of checking each other out he started chatting me up and then asked for my number, saying he thought I’d be good for a job he knew about. At the time I thought it was just an excuse to get my number. We arranged to meet but he never showed and I thought he just chickened out but now I wonder if I dodged a MLM pitch.

[quote]Do MLM people try to randomly recruit strangers?

Mary Kay definitely does. They call it "Warm Chatter," and it entails stalking marks at the mall, at the grocery store, etc. Most ex-MK consultants say it was what they hated most about selling.

MLMs represent an America at its most desperate - unable to produce anything of real value anymore and reduced to promoting grift and selling debt to foreign bondholders.

Is this an American thing? Do they have MLMs in Mexico, Europe, Asia, Africa?

[quote] The consultants have to run a certain number of demos and make at least one sale a month or they’re out.

If they have to host monthly parties at their house, what happened these past two years with the pandemic keeping people away? Did they have trouble making their sales?

DeAnne’s twin sister is named Dianne.

All the time, r125. Some go as far as approaching the most bedraggled, exhausted-looking person in a hospital cafeteria and pretending they’re there to visit a dying relative.

Once common ground has been established, the topic slowly turns to how #blessed they’ve been to be able to take care of every one of dying nana’s needs while people trapped in 9-to-5 jobs will live with the guilt of knowing they couldn’t do more to help their own dying nanas.

An attractive woman looking worried next to a car with the hood open is another one that’s carried out by young MLM couples. The guy watches from a nearby car to make sure that she hasn’t reeled in a budding serial killer.

A lot of these fishing expeditions are carried out in the residential areas of Vegas by huns from St. George. The really blatant stuff is harder to do in Utah, plus the person being targeted will probably hit back with their own sales pitch.

R126 Those Mary Kay ladies are worse than the moonies!

I watched the LuLaRoe doc on Amazon Prime yesterday and it was very entertaining. Amazing that they got away with it and there are still people out there selling that crap. I know I am supposed to feel bad for the women who got scammed but I am not. How can they not see all the red flags? The black lady was the highlight for me, she saw right through the Karen bullshit.

It’s Confederated Products.....not Amway!

r128 I saw in William Acker's PowerPoint about Herbalife that the company is now concentrating outside the USA, since their name is now mud in a lot of media. They are especially active in recruiting in Mexico and Central America, and Southeast Asia.

It took me thirty seconds to find this statistic on WIkipedia's page for multi-level marketing:

"According to a report that studied the business models of 350 MLM companies in the United States, published on the Federal Trade Commission's website, at least 99% of people who join MLM companies lose money."

Why anyone would be dumb enough to get involved in one of these things after discovering that little nugget of information is beyond me. But there are a lot of stupid people, so...

r136, it's the same with winning the lottery: Being the one who beats the odds.

[quote]it's the same with winning the lottery: Being the one who beats the odds.

Most of us who buy lottery tickets are "investing" very little and know the near-impossible odds.

I started watching LuLaRich. The thing that really stuck out is how hideous all the clothes they sell are. I would laugh if I saw anyone actually wearing them in public. Not sure if it was mentioned upthread, but the reason MLM is king in Utah is due to the overwhelming number of stay-at-home moms.

r138, everybody is well aware of pyramid schemes. Those who fall for them just push these concerns aside and convince themselves that they can make it happen for them. They know what's going on, but they rarely admit that they know. They lie to keep pretending.

So what's wrong with Amway?

Is there any difference, really, between MLM schemes and religion?

Will Mary Kay give me a pink Cadillac?

Yes, but not to keep.

R139 They look like toddler clothes! Such ugly stuff.

R47, did you like the hard wood?

I wonder if THRIVE had anything to do with Scooby Nickole's recent cancer battle. Not that she'd ever admit it.

This story is MLM related. I’m a former family attorney and I once represented the husband whose wife was a “pink Cadillac” Mary Kay bitch. The wife had all this recruiting material out there talking about how successful her business was, how she made money without doing anything, etc. etc. come divorce time, and she is astounded that her successful Mary Kay business is community property. Sudden,y, the business is worth nothing. But she had all these promotional materials out there saying it was worth a ton. Yeah, she had to come up with $$$ to settle. Her Mary Kay friends were freaking out.

[quote] Do they have MLMs in Mexico, Europe, Asia, Africa?

They definitely do, at least in Europe. One of my aunts who lives there and who's a perfect mark for this kind of scam, has been selling aloe vera products for a wellness MLM for more than a decade.

There has to be something in Utah state law that better protects these MLMs compared to law in other states.

Forgot the best part to my post at R148. Bitch lost the pink Cadillac because after the settlement her business didn’t qualify.

I think it was an old dl thread that mentioned many people understand MLMS are scams. They actually want to get in and make their money off others.

Thats why they'll never really disappear in this country. Getting rich quick without too much struggle is too tempting.

[quote]There has to be something in Utah state law that better protects these MLMs compared to law in other states.

Well, Utah is responsible for the unregulated supplements industry, thanks to Orrin Hatch.

[quote]Yeah, she had to come up with $$$ to settle. Her Mary Kay friends were freaking out.

[quote]Bitch lost the pink Cadillac because after the settlement her business didn’t qualify.

Delicious story!

It works! 🤡

This is cute because only 1 of the 4 women is doing the pose properly.

I have an old work acquaintance that started selling essential oil’s from Dotera several years ago and seemed to do ok initially but after being accosted to buy oils so many times I decided to keep my distance. I still see her shilling for the company on Facebook where she posts pictures of her trips to company events in Utah.

Another coworker provided my name to a friend of hers on Facebook and I somehow got added to a group for the seller of lularoe and the notifications were non stop to the point I had go online to figure out how to unsubscribe and basically locked down my Facebook as much as possible and now I rarely visit.

It’s so disrespectful to pull this crap on your contacts.

Yeah, DoTerra is the scam that my friends are shilling. And just days ago I found out that these friends just sucked in two other women friends that are not quite as sharp and are needy so they made perfect targets.

I shouldn't care because it's essentially not my business but now that they are hitting up more vulnerable friends, I'm getting pissed and may confront the MLM scammers.

Or not.

LuLaRich on Amazon was good, not great. I wish they had included more voices of people on the very bottom of the pyramid. It would have been nice to hear from folks who wanted in but recognized the problem fast and got out in time. I also wish they had done a more thorough job of explaining pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes, MLM etc. and why/how they are dangerous/illegal. If you are of reasonable intelligence you can follow along, but there are just too many fucking idiots out there who could walk away after watching all 4 episodes and still think they could make it work.

One thing I do think they covered well was the psychology and cult-like behavior of these scams and how they target a very particular demo. And that you don't have to be particularly smart to pull this off, just ruthless.

The schemes that deal with vitamins and oils are particularly dangerous because they spread tons of medical misinformation. I recall reading posts about how Dotera essential oils could help protect you from the flu, COVID, cancer etc…

Having lost a lot of seemingly intelligent, aware friends and helpful acquaintances in my life to both conservative religions (Baptist, LDS) and to MLM schemes I see a direct correlation.

Both reached out to me during stressful periods of my life with love bombing, encouragement, and constant positive compliments. I went to their religion's social events only and avoided MLM meetings. Never spent any money.

From childhood on the minute I made it clear I wasn't at all interested in joining up that was the end of the friendship. I'm a born skeptic and questioner of everything and not into "group think" at any level. Hard to find compatible thinkers.

I watched part of Ep. 1 of "LulaRich." It's a predictable story (scammers got rich) and didn't seem like it was being told in an interesting way. Decided not to watch the whole episode.

Did anyone catch that two of the couple's children married each other? I think they may have both been adopted, but that was odd, to me.

MLM scam Paparazzi Jewelry recently held a convention in Vegas that turned into a huge superspreader event.

11 deaths so far, and counting.

R127, MLM like franchises took advantage of the "have or own business, especially home-based", to give yourself flexibility of time and hours spent. In reality it's the total opposite of being an entrepreneur.

R27 isn’t Mormonism kind of an MLM scheme in itself? You have to give the Church part of your salary, and they make you go out and knock on doors to spread the word or whatever ....

I don't have enough friends to be successful at MLM.

I just finished [italic]LulaRich[/italic] and marveled at how ludicrous and loathsome the Stidhams are, especially Deanne. When they were on screen, it was like watching a mockumentary.

R162, yes. The 2 children who married were not bio related and the latter was adopted much later so they were not raised together. It's a little weird but honestly there was so many other much creepier and shady things about those people that it's not really worth making a fuss over.

R134 OT but I fucking adore GO!, such a fantastic movie. Doug Liman is a madman and I’m obsessed with his brain.

Wish we’d gotten to see Jay Mohr & cute sexy little young Scott Wolf make out in a scene, though; iirc the writer once said in a retrospective article that they wrote a kiss that did get shot but it was sadly cut.

Amway has great products. Quality made and worth buying. I hate MLMs I shop for Amway via their website so no one tries to get me to sell and I can have the products I want shipped to my home.

The main character (woman) on LulaRich reminded me of Tammy Faye Bakker. I also got Queen of Versailles vibes from the woman. The Versailles people got rich from time shares, IIRC, another scam.

R94, Thanks for the info on Avatar so I know to be wary of any mention of it. Reading about any of these faux courses gives me an immediate disconnect because of the seeming nonsensical "word salad."

Doterra (sorry, “doTERRA”) was started by a couple of Young Living employees who went rogue, and now the two groups of true believers fight back and forth on Facebook about the ineffectiveness of the other’s essential oils.

Some of the screencaps I’ve been sent would be hilarious if they weren’t so tragic and stupid. I’m talking about things like intrafamilial rage when an aunt ditches Young Living to become a Doterra consultant or a ha-ha-told-you-so when someone died after trying to treat an illness with the opposing brand.

Gary Young, the founder of Young Living, needs a miniseries. He started the usual way — by healing himself after being told he’d never walk or function normally ever again after a giant tree fell on him and crushed his spine and skull into dust. From there, his newborn baby ended up dead after he attempted a hot-tub birth.

Then, in a move stolen by Elizabeth Holmes, he claimed to be able to detect with 100% certainty any type of cancer with a single blood test. An undercover reporter submitted a sample and was diagnosed with — surprise! — cancer and multi-organ failure. The good news was that Young’s naturopathy clinic had a 100% success rate treating cancer and organ failure. When the reporter told him that he had actually submitted blood from a healthy pet, his answer was: “Well, your dog has cancer. We can cure it!”

When the Utah clinic was shut down, he opened one in Central America where he administered essential oils via IV and performed surgery. And that’s just scratching the surface.

R156, I'm struck by the marketing copy on the Lularoe site. Their clothes are thesaurusly labeled (in all caps):

BRAVE, FEARLESS, INVINCIBLE, TENACIOUS, STRONG, CONFIDENT, DETERMINED

Why, after nearly a decade of women's liberation, generations of feminist activism, and non-stop media ego-bolstering, are the most cynical (and presumably successful) appeals to women about empowerment? Why are women still so insecure to believe some hideously-patterned stretch pants will magically make them confident?

Stupidity springs eternal.

I worked with a sly, canny woman years ago. If there was a way to do a task with minimal effort, some short-cut or workaround, she’d find it. She had everything figured out (seriously). At one point, she got into Quixtar. I couldn’t reckon this smart cookie falling for the MLM scam. She got another coworker into it, and, boy, he could not stop talking about how stupid I was to let this opportunity pass by, how he’d be on vacation with his wife on their yacht and I’d still be slaving away in the office, etc. He was in idiot, but she wasn’t. How did she get sucked in?

I think it’s because she thought she’d find the workaround, the loophole and work the system (the way she had at our company). She thought she was smarter than all the other suckers. She KNEW it was a scam, but she thought she could outsmart it.

Spoiler alert: she couldn’t outsmart Quixtar. And neither could our stupid coworker, who didn’t get his yacht.

R174, a decade???

I liked the blasé biker-chick LulaRoe "designer."

R156 Geez, the idea that the company thought that photograph would sell clothes is very telling. Does no one there have any taste? The whole page is filled with ugly prints and unflattering combinations.

In one part of the doc, a woman says she was told by Deanne that if her husband balked at her buying more of the clothing to sell, she should give him a bj and that way he would happily assent.

R174, because clothes / the products aren't the core of what they're selling. They're selling the 'boss babe' dream to the 'consultant' recruit marks. That's why they're also big on self-help and pseudo-feminism, and what is termed as 'toxic positivity' -if you succeed, it's because of the MLM, if you fail, it's all on you - because you didn't try hard enough.

That's true of all pyramid MLMs and that's why people call them commercial cults.

I loved how Deanne and Mark squirmed when the interviewer confronted them about Deanne's son Jordan admitting to the retailers that LulaRoe was a pyramid scheme. "Oh, he's just so wacky!"

[quote]Another coworker provided my name to a friend of hers on Facebook and I somehow got added to a group for the seller of lularoe and the notifications were non stop to the point I had go online to figure out how to unsubscribe and basically locked down my Facebook as much as possible and now I rarely visit.

This is an anti-MLM youtuber showing a BeachBody upline training her minions how to recruit on social media. A bit longish but quite illuminating.

R174, Single and especially divorced women vastly outnumber the men in LDS and Evangelical churches. If a woman isn't paired up there's immense social pressure from others to "lower her standards" as she supposedly doesn't have all that much to offer not being a naturally thin beauty, especially if she's not from a wealthy family.

Instead of guiding single women to exercise and sensible nutrition classes, make up tutorials on YouTube, practical yet flattering clothing (yes even for BBW) the culture pushes products they don't need under the guise of supposedly making them feel better about themselves. Guaranteed fail so they'll be then pushed to buy more and different garbage.

[quote]Single and especially divorced women vastly outnumber the men in LDS and Evangelical churches. If a woman isn't paired up there's immense social pressure from others to "lower her standards" as she supposedly doesn't have all that much to offer not being a naturally thin beauty, especially if she's not from a wealthy family.

Not to mention that in LDS theology, if you die unmarried, you can only attain the "trailer park/apartment complex" level of heaven instead of the exclusive gated community that is the Celestial Kingdom.

R173 That is hilarious and scary at the same time.

I can’t believe this isn’t regulated, it’s dangerous because people are being harmed.

I went to cvs today to buy claritinD for my allergies and in order to purchase I need to go to the counter and hand over my ID just buy some decongestant, that is regulated but these scammers are selling oils with claims to cure cancer, heart disease and help you sleep better.

The government really needs to step in and stop these snake oil salesmen.

R46 Funny you mention Scientology as MLM schemes have always reminded me of it. I'm sure they've pushed products into the market using other company names.

Jesus Christ R87! Just an endless sea of fraus looking for meaning in their lives.

R181 With "MLM Hun," is hun just short for "honey" as a term of endearment or does it mean something else?

Check out DL's hottest🔥🔥🔥 new stud "Hudson!"

R186, Fraus not searching for meaning in their lives, as that's the role of faith/religion, but deeper connections to women in similar situations. That is fraus with kids who are most likely also overweight and have limited social opportunities. These fraus generally don't go to bars on a weekly basis to hang out.

At one time fraus met for an hour at health club or gym classes. In Vegas they meet and play cards in each other's homes. They think by getting involved in MLM they'll supplement their families income, have extra spending money, or at least have automatic social opportunities. Personally they'd be better off finding an exercise group.

Every single time I've seen LuLaRue fashions at a women's expo I've wondered who'd wear such ugly prints. Unflattering especially to the overweight.

Cheaper, better quality leggings & maxis always on Amazon.

MLMs are largely the purvey of bored uneducated dissatisfied hausfraus who want to feel like they're empowered business women instead and whose affluent husbands can bankroll their vanity endeavors to keep them occupied and happy for a time. If any of them had poured even a fraction of the time and money they had into real businesses, they might have gotten somewhere.

They're not uneducated. They're usually educated beyond their station in life. These women have degrees that they don't use, or stopped using very early. So they are smart, but because they have been so home-focused they aren't very savvy. And it's not as though they marry men who value their intellect. Part of dealing with the disconnect is they convince themselves they are so much smarter and more clever than "those" people--those people being working single or childless women, people who believe in science and trust vaccines, Dem voters, or whichever other boogeyman they've been handed.

Some of the top echelon are, you are right R192, but a lot of the underlings that get suckered into maxing out multiple 5-figure credit cards have zero financial literacy or formal education. They cannot start real businesses or have a real career, so they do this as a surrogate.

R191, I've met tons of MLM devoted hausfraus and very few were married to affluent husbands. They're running up their credit cards or borrowing money from relatives for their fantasy businesses.

Agree that if they started their own real businesses even if it was a small time cleaning service for the other ladies at their church. Or a baking, sewing, decorating, operation that they'd be much better off. Most fraus have at least one special skill that could could generate a little bit of extra income. How about employing local teens?

R192 thinks he’s f’ing Freud

[quote]MLMs are largely the purvey of bored uneducated dissatisfied hausfraus who want to feel like they're empowered business women...

You saying that reminded me of this...

R193 they aren't business or financial literate, but that's not the same as being uneducated. The problem is they think having a college degree in marketing or communications that they never put to use in any meaningful way is just as good. The MLM's "training" is all focused on selling, not the basic skills needed to run a business, because anyone who knows how to run a business would see the red flags right away,

R194 Ditto! Affluent housewives are not going to lower themselves into peddling cheap lotions and weight-loss pills in some MLM scheme. They see it as thoroughly beneath them.

Unfortunately, MLM is primarily the domain of the lower and middle-class who are the least likely to be able to afford this scam.

Anyone interested in LuLaRich or doesn't have Amazon should check out the Vice video posted at OP, if you haven't or thought it was an article. It's a pretty comprehensive story and set a lot of lawsuits, podcasts and documentaries into motion.

[quote]...because anyone who knows how to run a business would see the red flags right away.

R197 Truth!

It's definitely not just a frau thing since Herbalife is at least fifty percent gym-obsessed narcissistic guys

R187, "hun" (n.) is a derisive term for MLM fraus that came into vogue on Reddit's Anti-MLM discussion board It stems from the obnoxious way they introduce themselves to unsuspecting marks on social media and via text message: "Hey hun, can I tell you about my #BossBabe business selling hideous leggings/worthless essential oils/shitty overpriced makeup?"

Ah thanks R202!

Oops, here's the link

Good writeup by a journalist who was in LuLaRich

[quote]the conservative nuclear family ideal — a white heterosexual family with Dad working outside of the home while Mom is entirely financially dependent on him and is at home all day with the kids, usually the only adult in charge of raising children in a suburban single-family home — is set up to make women miserable. Human beings are not meant to live in near-isolation. We crave stimulation, socialization (and not just with children), novelty, and knowledge. Care work can be incredibly meaningful and satisfying; it can be creative and collaborative. It can also be exhausting and repetitive, and leaving women to do it while socially isolated, financially vulnerable, uncompensated, and culturally dismissed is a recipe for unhappiness. It’s also a recipe for exploitation. And that’s what happened with LuLaRoe and so many other MLMs.

That Vice video at OP did a better job than the Amazon series of explaining the difference what makes a scam MLM a scam. Interesting that some of the same women were interviewed for both.

I've met grade school educated men, women, young teens who essentially have their own business, usually in the service economy, or making a highly desirable but labor intensive product to sell. Perhaps they had a savvy relative, kind neighbor or even a church member to point them in the right direction?

Used to be kids would help their parents while learning valuable basic business skills similar to what the Amish practice.

Paula Deen + Connie Stevens + Tammy Faye Bakker = DeAnne Stidham

Great clip in this episode of an MLM scammer telling a crowd that in a year they'll pull a take this job and shove it with their boss because they're going to be so successful as a "entrepreneur."

[quote], a decade???

Whoops, R176, I meant to type century.

There are some MLMs where men equal or outnumber women, like Powur (solar panels), Primerica (insurance), World Global Network (fitness trackers), Motor Club of America (MLM version of AAA), etc. They're just very dry and don't have the impulse-buy factor of nail decals or grotesque leggings.

The only one I can think of that tried to liven things up was ManCave. They had Mary Kay-style parties, called "meatings," where they sold bbq accessories, sauces and rubs, and actual meat. Needless to say, that one didn't last.

And who could forget the greatest Pre-Paid Legal #MagnateLife that never was, complete with MoArt in the background and a CTR ring on the fuck-you finger.

I was an office drone for a company called “U.S. Monolith” that was an MLM for silver dollars - of all things. It was a shitty job and I quit after a few months; I distinctly remember having to deal with some, shall we say, eccentric people. Precious-metal investors tend to be weirdos to begin with.

MLM shills love to whatabout people who call them out with "No, YOUR job is the REAL pyramid scheme!"

[quote]I've met grade school educated men, women, young teens who essentially have their own business, usually in the service economy, or making a highly desirable but labor intensive product to sell.

They're called WHORES.

When I temped at a hospital, a physiotherapist was hawking Pure Romance, which specialises in sex toys. She offered to bring in a catalogue for people who couldn’t attend her party, or everyone.

“You’re bringing a dildo catalogue into the workplace? “ I asked. She spluttered a bit and went off in a sulk.

As someone else mentioned, these vids are a grotesque view into just.... the most horrible women. Using all this manipulative, emotional, deceptive language to prey on gullible, weak, insecure, or physically sick people.

They should be in jail. But to top it all off, the names of the MLM cunts are exactly what you'd expect. The head cunt introduces the team as, "“Me, Carly, Bree, Courtney, and Kate."

It's horrible that some of these huns try to convince their marks to quit their real jobs--and the benefits (health insurance!) that come with them--to commit to a scam.

Im actually an event planner for an mlm. It’s such a fucking racket. But hey, it pays the bills

I’ve made millions.

First, you get yourself five dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks daughters…

Yes, Travis Alexander (Arizona murder victim - Jodi Arias the killer) got whitewashed in the courtroom trial coverage. He was dubbed a "motivational speaker" when, in reality, he was involved in a pyramid, MLM scheme. No, he didn't deserve to get murdered, but that is what he was involved with, MLM.

I've never been involved in one. Even in fifth grade, when my parents' friends were selling Amway, it seemed desperate and sketchy. During adulthood, the only people I've known who've been involved in MLMs tend to be naive and culty in their thinking. Easy prey, and prone to irrational beliefs that lead to their own harm. The leaders are all sociopaths. Some have ended up Scientologists and one old friend is now working his way up the levels in Landmark Forum (or just "Landmark" since its rebranding). Then there are the newer MLMs like Paparazzi, having their COVID superspreader conferences etc. It's cult thinking and dangerous.

R7 I know what you mean. MLMs seem to be big in some bubbles like military wives. Once many of your peers are drawn into such an MLM, any critique or refusal to join is seen as a personal attack. It's much like a sect. A colleague at work wanted to draw me into Herbalife, and it was weird. First off, she didn't tell the name of the company (a tell-tale sign for any MLM, as I learned much later), only that she had contact with an "entrepreneur" and she was invited to join his launch team for something big that was going to hit the German market soon. (Her description didn't make me eager - it made me wary.) She couldn't understand I was so reluctant to join. I asked what position we were talking about (I had a decent job at the time), and got a generic answer, like there were many possibilities as the German team was just being built and so the ones first to join could pretty much pick their position. It was pretty obvious she got hooked by a combo of dissatisfaction in her job, a partner who saw their careers as a contest and a well-versed professional selling her exactly what she wanted to hear. She wanted to feel special, and so he told her she was. He might have fucked her too. I remember when I later found out it was Herbalife (she started to have awful shakes instead of meals), and I was really a little disappointed. It takes some guts to sell Herbalife as something new when their representatives were already being a pest 10 years before that.

I had new neighbors who really seemed fun and they asked me and boyfriend over on a Saturday night. I made a dessert and we came over and they greeted us in their Sunday best. Then came the long Amway spiel. I ended up making excuses to leave after that and was pissed that I left my dessert there.

I am bummed Kirsten Dunst's show about MLM on Showtime was canceled

r3 you educated me. I saw a Lulu Lemon in the shopping center by me but I assumed it was the same thing as Lularoe. I am a 50 year old gay man so that is not in my wheelhouse obviously.

I agreed to go to a timeshare MLM presentation and could not belive how cheesy it was. Literally videos of people on yachts sipping champagne, couples on balconies overlooking the sea, men in fast cars buzzing down the coast and women coming out of shops with loads of "designer" shopping bags. I've known a few extremely wealthy people and they do none of those things - although their useless children did.

I had no money to do it anyway but it was so odd seeing couples looking at each other with excitement while they signed up. People really are stupid.

It is disappointing and weird when someone leaves a good-paying well-regarded job to sell Lularoe or Nerium skincare but that happened to two women I know.

SeneGence comes out with weird limited-edition LipSense colors and then every bedraggled consultant feels the need to go out to Hobby Lobby looking like this.

This one in particular is the signature color of the company. The founder-CEO's house is on the market right now for $49,950,000, and it's awash in this shade of blue. Her husband, who had never make a political donation prior to Trump taking office, suddenly coughed up $2 million during 2017-2018, including $1 million to America First Action.

I'll post a link for our Tasteful Friends in the next one.

Decorated by Joey Luft

My sister-in-law's friend keeps trying to sell me patches for my leg pain but I am leery to buy from her because first of all I am skeptical that they work and secondly I know once I buy from her I will never get rid of her.

[quote]Multi-Level Marketing Scams

Redundant. All multi-level marketing is a scam.

R228 How do people make so much money with trashy make-up? I imagine make-up is really cheap to produce. You can outsource it to just some generic factory, slap your brand on it, then mark it up to idiots who will apparently pay for it.

I guess this is why so many social media influencers start their own make-up brand. The barriers to entry can't be that much, or difficult, if 20 yr old morons are getting into it.

R214, Countless immigrants come to the US with barely a grade school education and immediately start working. Special advantage if they attend church with a strong community structure and work ethic.

Lawn mowing, moving, caring for the elderly and home bound, baby sitting and child care, labor intensive cooking & baking for the holidays, etc. Doesn't pay a lot but you need little investment capital and it's eventually going to be a lot more profitable than MLM schemes. Definitely NOT WHORES. as R214 claims.

R228, Covergirl lips gloss really stays on even when eating & drinking. Doesn't even come off on your coffee cup. Costs about $7 to $10 on Amazon and comes in a very wide range of natural (as well as a few offbeat) colors.

Bright shades of orange, purple, black, and yes blue were the rage among teens in the last few years to match/clash with the outre colors of nail polish. Makes the lips really stand out (and look tacky IMHO.)

R729, Bright blue pool table? I've never seen such a bright blue sports car before.

[quote]Bright shades of orange, purple, black, and yes blue were the rage among teens in the last few years

R234 what do you with lips that are orange and blue? How do you go out looking like you're not nutso or fashion-challenged?

R236, Perhaps it's a take off of Halloween makeup and cosplay or role playing and fantasy parties?

Like the bizarrely painted nails some teens and young adults were sporting the lipstick obviously is not used in the traditional way to subtly enhance a woman's features. Dark purple lipstick somewhat works on certain shades of mixed race women with a lot of melanin. Other women just want to stand out and be noticed. Your eyes would be drawn to bright blue lips.

[quote]I'm actually an event planner for an mlm. It’s such a fucking racket. But hey, it pays the bills

By "events," do you mean those huge tacky conventions?

I have a family member who has advanced degrees but is a social worker and barely earns enough to get by. She is in her third or fourth MLM right now and hosts online events to sell the shit. She doesn’t buy in to the cult thinking anymore but does it until she doesn’t make enough money to justify the time. She posts shit like how empowering it is, blah blah blah but doesn’t believe a word of it.

[quote] They had Mary Kay-style parties, called "meatings,"

Sounds hot! I'll bring my meat!

[quote]By "events," do you mean those huge tacky conventions?

And by huge tacky conventions, do you mean COVID super-spreader events?

Beauty Control

BeautiControl was started by two senior Mary Kay sales directors who decided to go into business for themselves because Mary Kay was a cunt who wouldn't let them advance in the company. BeautiControl was also the name of their first product, a skin cream concocted by an Arkansas man who tanned deer hides for a living to soothe his chapped hands.

The company was later bought by a repulsive social-climbing couple named Dick and Jinger Heath. There was even a TV movie about Jinger's rivalry with Mary Kay, starring Parker Posey as Jinger and Miss Shitley MacLaine as The Pink One.

It’s a good thing Simply Sara quit Paparazzi, because you know Miss Delta was flying around that conference looking specifically for her and licking her lips in anticipation.

I had a manager at a federal agency, who sold herballife 20+ years ago.

R245 aaaand? Any crazy stories of them trying to hawk to co-workers? We're they finacially struggling? Were they a manipulative cunt?

Just started watching the Lularoe documentary and I noticed the founders both had experience with Amway before.

A friend of mine had a boss years ago who tried to get him to join some MLM - I don't remember the company. It was an Amway clone.

My friend said it really wasn't for him, and sure enough a few months later was fired over some small issue with a customer. These people in this particular MLM were very weird. They would harass people who had quit or weren't interested in joining. Of course they were all religious nuts. Really crazy stuff.

It's not right for an employer to try and strong arm their employees into joining.

The difference with Lularoe is how new it is compared to other MLMs. Some of the those earning over a million a year started in 2016.

Anyone who is told that they have to spend money for a job or spend money to make money should be smart enough to know that’s a huge red flag and to back away. Unless you’re starting your own legitimate LLC or corporation with your OWN product or service, you shouldn’t be pumping money into a job or needing to “invest” in it. I guess they save that talk for the end of their spiel?

Wow, that's a lot of expensive bad taste at R229. It's exactly the kind of 'dream mansion' those poor suckers joining MLMs would want to live in, though.

A lot of these MLMs are selling and exploiting friendship. Lularoe appears to be like a sorority for moms. You're encouraged to dump your old friends who don't "support you" (i.e. buy from you or join under you). Then, if you quit the MLM, you lose all your new friends. A lot like scientology.

Hun, you are literally #KillingIt as a mom!! I know you’re doing your best to #Empower your girlies, but do you ever wonder if there’s #More??

I know you’ve probably dreamed of creating your very own #DYNASTY of #GirlBosses but didn’t know where to start or even what it would be like to live in a house filled with #CEOgirlies!! Well, babe, I’ve been #Blessed with just that and it’s heckin’ great!!!

Hun, ask me how you can make your 11-to-17-year-old daughters #FinanciallyIndependent before they start high school!!

#MomsEmpoweringMoms

#MomsEmpoweringDaughters

#MomsEmpoweringMomsToEmpowerDaughters!!

A daughter of a wealthy family that I grew up with is always selling some kind of jewelry. She is the only child of wealthy parents and also has a good paying job. Yet I see her posts on Facebook having jewelry parties and trying to get others to sign up. I don't see why anyone would feel like they have to financially support her but when I do read her posts her friends are gushing about her. It's just like high school all over again for some of these women.

[quote] My partner and I did Market America for a year, brought on by a friend who is very successful in it and is also a Broadway producer.

R66, you cannot keep that name from us.

Every frau relative in my husband's Ohio family has at some point sold Pampered Chef. It's not as MLM'y as some of the others, more like Avon and Tupperware I think. But we laugh every time one of them posts on Facebook about their next Pampered Chef party and to get those orders in. It's so overpriced for what it is yet these fraus think it's exotic gourmet chef tools.

R256, Woe to you if you mistakenly go to a party without realizing it's an MLM and choose not to buy anything. I went to a Pampered Chef party years ago and admired a bottle of sauce. This is, until I read the ingredients.

Co-hostess of the party bad mouthed me all over her several Meetup organizations (yes MLM has infiltrated Meetup as well as other multiple scams) for being "too cheap" to buy anything. Have always seen other party "guests" bullied for eating the hostesses' food and not spending a LOT of funny "helping" the hostess."

The MLM stuff is always ridiculously overpriced because instead of having one or two middlemen like most commercially-sold products, they have LOTS of them to satisfy. The prices on stuff like Amway and Pampered Chef has markups well beyond their counterparts in traditional retail, and are never worth the extra cost. You're just paying for someone's downline/upline.

It's so fascinating to me that people actually fall for these pyramid schemes.

R259, Many even intelligent, educated people get roped in because of the hard sell but seductive pitches. It truly seems like joining a sorority of like-minded people frustrated at being a wage slave and wanting more flexibility.

Note how many of the women are obese after childbirth and have low self-esteem. Vulnerable to connecting with others around the US in the same position with a common goal of having more spending money and recognized success.

Having your own business was the highly marketed dream to empower women with children who wanted an occasional day off from work when their kids were very sick or had special sports games/drama/music performances.

Only recently have their been YouTube videos and free online classes showing how to create & market your skills to actually have your own business. Still only certain personalities have the talent and personality to make a profit at it.

Wish I'd been able to read this entire thread when I was so sad after going to yet another bait and switch MLM scam marketed as a fun party. Depressed because I lost a lot of friends over my refusal to buy anything.

One with fab tasting wine was located at a beautiful art gallery. Wanted to buy the wine, was told I'd have to buy in to the MLM 1st at a very high cost.

At one time almost every single ad in the Los Angeles Times help wanted section, in all categories, was for an MLM especially for diet drinks & pills. Met the original founders of that scam, early in the game, thru mutual friends. He was a piece of work, his 2nd wife was beautiful.

[quote]Depressed because I lost a lot of friends over my refusal to buy anything.

No great loss. If that's what your friendship was dependent on, you're better off.

Second wife = Trophy Wife, R261.

R262, Thanks and I know, no great loss. What was depressing is to realize someone I'd thought would be a great friend was so lacking. Exactly the same happened when I wouldn't convert to their religion, or buy into their unhealthy lifestyle.

R263, Controlling jerk with a miserable/angry attitude/countenance was mad when his trophy wife wasn't quickly snapped up and given a major acting career. Don't know if she had any real talent but she was truly beautiful and expensively styled. Then again it was a big disadvantage to be already married with a manipulative husband.

I’m selling vitamins and supplements. Anyone interested?

It's sucks for people who are temping and have had difficulty holding down a job. The love-bombing and the ease of how it leads to being invited to some event gives the impression that you've finally found something that will work for you and lead to a better life.

Once those involved realize you are just there for the pseudo-partying and the food, they turn on you quickly and the love-bombing evolves into "Okay, you can leave now..." coldness.

Somebody on the Anti-MLM subreddit said Mark Stidham looks like "a truck-driving serial killer"

I went to an Amway night once and did buy a few things like laundry liquid and that sort of thing. It was all ridiculously overpriced and worked no better than anything from the supermarket, despite the seller pushing the "patent., superior formulas" line. Kind of reminds me of Tupperware. Is their plastic shit really any better than something from Target that costs 75% less? Of course not.

Can't see how any of the MLM would be worth it post Amazon.com (and now that Walmart's online.) When MLM 1st became popular those in small towns and remote villages had difficulty getting access to many common products.

Meet the next generation of MLM couples — Bella and Dallin (because, of course) of Origami Owl, the jewelry MLM that signs up hun-tots as young as 11 with a parent's approval. She's twenty-five now but she started the company at fourteen with her mother, who was later found guilty of computer tampering in the Susan Brock case.

That horror story is a thread in itself, but it wasn't mama's first problem: in 2004 she forgot that her three-month-old son was locked in the car when she went shopping for a couple of hours....in Arizona....in June....when it was 100+ degrees. Somehow, he survived.

Still, sometimes they do good things, like getting a friend to bend over and present meaty ass at 5:54.

Mormons go in for it a lot. 100 MLM companies started in Utah. My dad had a friend who he was friends with since childhood, at least a 50-year friendship got into Amway. He tried to get my dad interested and every conversation he would bring up or try to sell Amway. It wasn't just the products but he wanted him in his downline and to invest to become a distributor. He also tried to sell him motivational tapes. The friendship ended because my dad got sick of his constantly trying to sell him. After he became a distributor it was as if he had joined a cult. I also worked with a guy who was into it and he kept buying shit until he finally had to file for bankruptcy because he could not make any money and had spent a fortune on products.

If you're wondering whether a company is an MLM or not, look at this link:

OP-At first I thought your title said - Multi level Parking scams

The “educated” and “intelligent” people who get involved in this know it’s a scam and think they can game the system.

They can’t, because it’s like a casino: the house always wins.

Roxane Gay

R98 it’s funny how all the social media shills use the exact same terms/language. “People have been asking about my nail polish/skin care routine/eating habits “ etc. So transparently phony.

My Avon Lady is trans.

R89 is some of the best parody I've ever read on this site.

R277, a lot of people 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 are asking me about my business 👩🏻‍💻 and why I'm so jazzed 🤸🏻‍♂️ about it!!! 👧🏼👀 👁 👅 👄 💋 🩸

Pyramid schemes ruin friendships and lives . A horrible lie

Avon and Tupperware seem pretty low key, at least in the 90s. Like someone at work would have a catalogue and you order and boom that’s it. Plus Tupperware is quite a decent product and Avon had some good staples that older women liked, such as cold cream.

People like the CEO of HerbaLife in that John Oliver show should be taken out and beaten to death. Living the high life off the backs of swindled idiots

R282, that's true, but my understanding is that even these companies have started pushing aggressive recruitment tactics and purchase minimums on their independent consultants.

I'm actually surprised Curves for Women isn't listed on here. To start one, you needed to go to Houston and attend a 3 day conference (which you paid for), all the exercise equipment, and then a constant array of supplements, shakes and products. The one thing that was missing was you didn't recruit other location owners, but you did need to recruit women/members to the club to keep it going and had to pay franchising fees.