LOOKING FOR MR GOODBAR on TCM tonight 5/11 at 11pm EST!

Both are disappointing. Looking for Mr. Goodbar doesn't get as gritty as it should. It's a bad adaptation of a fine book. Tab Hunter Confidential coasts on the appeal of its subject, but the director is a total hack.

I saw this movie in the theater when I was just 16. I loved it, but man, was it ever disturbing. The ending is horrifying and made me afraid of strobe lights for a long time.

What a terrible double feature. One is a fantastic movie, the other is a feature length equivalent of a DVD extra. You're right, R1, that director is a fucking hack.

Thank you for the heads up Miss OP.

R3 It's not exactly a double feature. "Tab Hunter Confidential" is on at 6:30 ET, and "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" is on at midnight.

it was a joke, dear. there are no double features on TCM. It's a TV network.

Tab Hunter was very charming, but the doc is just basic hagiography.

Tab Hunter Confidential is the film version of his book. He told his story his way, and he died just s few years afterwards, so it's great there is a first hand account of his life and times. It was a difficult time to be gay in Hollywood and it's fascinating with a rare insider's view, especially considering how many of his fellow gay actors died in the closet. No tales from them.... and far more interesting than any of your lives. You're really missing out if you don't see it.

Just read the book if you're that interested. It's got more detail than the boring talking head waste of time.

You're not missing out.

Yes, this is a literary crowd....

Tab Hunter's autobio is hardly literary. It's one step above Harold Robbins.

If Harold was a gorgeous gay leading man with everyone chasing him for one reason or another.

Correction, op -- it's midnight EST (9PM PST).

I've never see Looking so am eager to see it on TCM On Demand. Thanks, OP.

I watched the Tab Hunter doc this evening. His little wink-wink to Tony Perkins was interesting.

On my provider, Mr. Goodbar is on but not the Tab Hunter Confidential.

WTF?

It’s disabled women night—Junie Moon (Liza’s disfigured face), A Woman’s Face (Crawford’s—based on the Swedish original with Ingrid), and Goodbar (in the book Theresa has CP or something similar—does she in the movie? I don’t remember).

I don’t think Tab counts as a disabled woman, however.

Teresa has scoliosis.

[quote] On my provider, Mr. Goodbar is on but not the Tab Hunter Confidential.

What're ya bitchin' about, you got the good one.

Looking for Mr. Goodbar was like some kind of horrifying anti-dating propaganda in the 70s. The fact that she was a teacher of young kids made it worse. IMO, I think more attention should have been paid to the religious family stuff as a reason she was fucked up. It's been a long time, though, so I'm watching it again.

Sucks that Goodbar is still not on DVD. Read the book as a kid and it's my favorite Diane Keaton movie (well, after Godfather but she's barely in that one).

It’s disabled women night—Junie Moon (Liza’s disfigured face)

Oh honey, that's just Liza.

The Goodbar soundtrack is perfection. The songs are used perfectly in the film.

And I'm sure the music is the reason the film is in release limbo.

It really is a perfect film for Criterion to issue. Think of all the great supplements they could include (hopefully a lengthy interview with Keaton).

Diane got her Oscar for that...

She had scoliosis. Not that big of a deal, but of course her Irish Catholic family goes nuts.

Also, it was Tab Hunter DAY - a couple of his movies were on during the daytime, before "Confidential" aired. I've seen it before, but watched it again - what a kind, sweet person he was!! Did not have a bad word to say about anyone, including Anthony Perkins. A beautiful man, inside and out.

Has anybody ever read about the true story it is based on?? Her autopsy is disturbing as fuck!

The man who created the scarred face for Liza also made up Mama for her funeral.

Kay Thompson is truly bizarre in the movie and a hard 60 years old.

Tuesday Weld is so good in this.

She should’ve played Jessica Lange’s sister goddammit!

Tuesday.

Thanks, OP. I just set it to record.

R25, when the film came out there was a lot about the source and it made the film scarier to know the real story. Here's the wikipedia. I don't think in 1977 they entertained the idea that she might have been sexually abused in her family or perhaps by a priest.

Keaton's performance still holds up. She really is amazing in this film.

Seeing it in HD, some of those sets look cheap and artificial. In the scenes where Keaton is walking to her apartment, there is practically nobody on the street. Looks ridiculous.

I enjoyed following the #TCMParty hashtag for this. Not a single tweet during the last 5 minutes, of course.

I've never seen this before. Perhaps this is a sign it will finally get a Blu-ray release (and since Paramount is now finally taking charge in issuing their films on Blu-ray).

R22 good luck with that one - she never talks much about her past movies in general (she wasn’t even on the REDS DVD) and especially not Goodbar. Jack Nicholson said her attitude has always been “great, I made a movie, so BLAH...”

Her lack of self-importance is admittedly refreshing, but it still would be nice to see her have insightful conversations about some of her work.

The biggest reason I was not at all surprised to hear what a creep James Franco is was because how much he always reminded me of Tom Berenger in this.

It's wild that Berenger had a career after this, let alone briefly became a star.

Keaton is great.

But the movie has two basic messages:

1) girls who sleep around will get killed

2) Gay men will kill you.

For years, I couldn't see Berenger in any other way but when he was on Cheers and showed a lighter side, I was able to forget about Gary.

I'm more convinced than ever after watching tonight that it's Donna Summer's Estate that is holding this film back from physical release. I know Donna was very picky about her songs being used in films after she became Born-Again. I'm sure she vetoed any DVD release of Goodbar using her songs and I'm betting she made it clear in her will/estate that they not be used for Blu-Ray or other physical releases. I could be wrong but one of the scenes her music is used in is a sex scene between Gere and Keaton.

If Donna's estate is hung up about sex, wouldn't they have shelved the horn dog anthem "Hot Stuff" and the mega-orgasmic "Love to Love You Baby"?

I forgot that when Keaton first meets Richard Gere in the bar, she is reading a copy of THE GODFATHER. Gere looks at it and says something like "Pacino was great" and Keaton just smiles.

The problem I have with this film is that it has to cram Berenger's backstory into it so quickly - all along they are telegraphing that Richard Gere's Tony might kill her, or that creepy James might kill her, and then it turns out to be this random guy. I don't think there was any real need to plug in that speech Berenger has to give about his pregnant girlfriend back in Oklahoma and her swollen belly etc etc. It's creepy enough that it's just some random guy who turns on her - but it was a different time, to be sure, when it was plausible to make a conflicted gay guy into a psycho killer. I'd like to read the book again, but it's kind of hard to find.

William Atherton's performance was really pretty good - why didn't he have a bigger career?

He's good, r39, but on the bland side.

Atherton declared himself an "ex-gay" on a TV show in the '80s. It's been discussed on DL before.

and years after he declared himself an ex-gay I saw him looking at male beefcake calendars in a bookstore. His wife was a few feet away. Fake marriage I guess.

Did anyone get to see it? I DVR'ed it via Sling, but it doesn't show up in my recordings.

Don't leave me this way......

R43 I watched it. Some of the performances don't hold up well, like Richard Kiley as the over the top Irish dad and Tuesday Weld as the strung out sister, but Diane Keaton, Richard Gere, and Tom Berenger were excellent.

By today's standards, the scene with Berenger and his lover is cringey and offensive, but that final scene with Berenger and Keaton is still as horrifying today as it was when I saw the movie during its original release.

[quote] By today's standards, the scene with Berenger and his lover is cringey and offensive

It's only cringy and offensive if you're looking to be butthurt and triggered over everything.

The family scenes are all pitched at 100+ and lack any nuance. Keaton is the only one to keep them grounded. I don’t blame Kiley but Brooks and his script. They seem more appropriate for a stage show.

As for the scene between Richard Bright and Berenger, I agree with Roger Ebert’s review in which he says the film abandons Teresa’s perspective. It feels out of place although I thought Bright was endearing with his cries of “I’ll wait for you!!” (I think Ebert’s review is spot-on actually).

The ending is absolutely terrifying and the cinematography, editing and sound mix/editing are outstanding. Just listening to those last breaths wheezing. Ugh. The absolute finality of it is so disturbing.

The film’s sound, feel and look are so Paramount, including in its many ABC sitcoms, brashness, and credits typefaces, of the mid- and late-1970s.

And I always liked Keaton’s disarming shyness and jaunty walking style. Reminds me of Jacqueline Onassis and that I wish/think she could play her in a film someday (not on assistance, though!).

[quote]R22 Think of all the great supplements they could include (hopefully a lengthy interview with Keaton).

And, we might hope, Oscar nominee Miss Tuesday Weld.

Is this the Gaybar thread?

I remember the great anticipation on DL when Keaton published a memoir.

We were hoping she'd discuss Goodbar but she only devoted two sentences to it.

She doesn't seem to like talking about her work. She never even did an Inside the Actors Studio.

The most of heard her say about Goodbar was to David Letterman. She said something like wow that was some movie, I'm sort of shocked I had the guts to do it.

It did seem like her first big step away from comedy and Woody Allen films. In the bio she does state that all the attention from Annie Hall and the Oscar scared her and instead of taking some of the offers that came her way for starring vehicles (Norma Rae I guess would be one), she continued "hiding" in the ensemble of Woody Allen films where she felt safe.

Wow, here's the original theatrical trailer. What an artifact!

r52 see r33.

But, yes, it's amazing. So '70s.

BTW, does anyone know if the clips starting at around 2:05 are from a deleted scene? I don't recall that scene in the film.

yes r53 the scene with her covering her face must have been cut. Not in the film.

The other part looks like a bouncer is throwing William Atherton out of the bar. That must have been cut too. He does dance wildly like that which leads her to meet Tom Berenger.

i'd love to get the half sheet in the thumbnail of that trailer.

I never get why they have goodbar in the title. Is it mentioned in the book?

That trailer is so amazing with the different songs like at the beginning of the film. The music is just so perfectly chosen.

I can't believe it's taken this long for the trailer to finally show up on YouTube. I hope more stuff comes out relating to this film. A Criterion with deleted scenes and trailers and TV spots would be incredible. It will never happen but one can wish.

Funny the trailer just went up on youtube the other day. Right before TCM aired it. I wonder where it was found.

R56 In the novel, Mr. Goodbar is the singles spot where Theresa meets Gary a few hours before he kills her.

thanks r59!

Interesting article about Rossner's reaction to the adaptation of her own novel.

"My homosexuality made me kill women!!"

Yeah, right.

What a piece of shit movie.

R47 I agree about the part of the movie where Tom Berenger shows up. Suddenly, we're focusing on a new character and Keaton is nowhere to be seen. It was kind of jarring. They could have cut the whole scene with Berenger and his lover getting beat up and just had the scene where Keaton meets Berenger at the bar, but I suppose the director needed some way to let us know Berenger was gay prior to him meeting Keaton.

R62 In real life, the guy who killed the woman was gay, and he did blame the killing on him being conflicted about being gay.

[quote]R66 I never get why they have goodbar in the title. Is it mentioned in the book?

[quote]R59 In the novel, Mr. Goodbar is the singles spot where Theresa meets Gary a few hours before he kills her.

One of the bar’s walls is decorated with candy bar wrappers.

I'd much rather be LOOKING FOR SNICKERS or LOOKING FOR REESE'S PEANUT BUTTER CUPS.

Mmmmm, LOOKING FOR 3 MUSKETEERS, LOOKING FOR BUTTERFINGER....

Excuse me, I'm going to need a few moments alone.

Great film, really holds up despite being made nearly fifty years ago. Tuesday Weld is annoying, in my opinion. Her screechy, scattered style grates. She was supposed to be such a terrific actress, but the only movie I like her in is Who'll Stop the Rain, when the director seems to have clamped on her most annnoying mannerisms. I used to walk by her home in Marina del Rey a lot when I lived there, but never saw her--I wasn't stalking, her house is on the boardwalk and impossible to avoid.

R67 I didn't like Tuesday Weld's performance in this movie, either. I was surprised she got an Oscar nomination out of it and Diane Keaton didn't.

The last movie I saw Tuesday Weld in was "Falling Down." She was really overweight and only had a couple of scenes where she was talking on the phone. I've read that she's lives the life of a recluse now, rarely venturing out. She continued to be in high demand for roles for years, but apparently turned down most everything offered to her and walked away from her career altogether.

I also thought Alan Feinstein, who played Keaton's professor and lover, was particularly awful in this one. Again, way over the top in his scenes. He wasn't acting. He was ACTING!

Weld is fantastic. She did excellent work in “Once Upon a Time in America” and late in her career in “Chelsea Walls.”

R68 I thought Weld deserved her nomination. The film comes alive when she’s in scenes with Keaton with her funny, neurotic, flighty portrayal of the unhappy sister and she injects much needed humor and levity into the film considering what’s to come in the end. Obviously Keaton won for both roles. The voters loved Annie Hall, so it’s understandable she would get the nom for the safer role.

I remember seeing it and thinking it was pretty lousy....like "Cruising," those scare movies about the ghastly "Sexual Revolution" as viewed by Hollywood's male power brokers....I read an interview in which Richard Brooks (who directed) said he never did understand what the title meant....

[quote] I read an interview in which Richard Brooks (who directed) said he never did understand what the title meant....

Did he not read the book? It's explained there.

Keaton is the one who is completely annoying in this (as usual), not Weld. She's miscast and never really captures Theresa's pain. The ending is disturbing. but you don't really give a shit that it's happening to this character. She's still too Annie Hall with the la-di-da mannerisms. Overrated performance.

Why has not one mentioned Levar Burton in his first movie role? I loved the scene where he saw Richard Gere harassing Diane Keaton on the playground and came to her rescue.

If the film was made today, you know who would be perfect (looks wise especially) as Theresa/Terry? Lens.

LeVar got the "And LeVar Burton" credit. A prestigious credit, presumably due to the huge success of Roots earlier that year. But his role is very small and he barely has more than three lines of dialogue.

But I do like that scene where he comes to Keaton's rescue. Gere even calls him the n-word.

I like that his character can see that Theresa probably surrounds herself with rough men.

[quote]1) girls who sleep around will get killed

I don't get how people get this message from this movie. Considering Tuesday Weld's character is every bit as promiscuous and yet comes off as more level headed and well adjusted then any of them. In fact, it's interesting how Keaton is the rock to her at the beginning, but as as the movie goes on, the situations change and it's the sister who's saving Theresa from Richard Gere's character.

Also, there's no normal, wholesome element in this film. The William Atherton character comes off creepy. If anything, this movie really blows the lid on a lot of those devout middle Class Catholic homes of that era. About how everyone kept public appearance of good value, at the behest of hushing up a lot of secrets. Houses where guilt and sadness loomed everywhere. The Richard Kiley character could be hammy, but he captured a lot of that mindset.

Theresa's problem isn't that she's promiscuous anyway, it's that she's damaged from having scoliosis. And thus, incapable of having any kind of normal relationship with anyone.

[quote] girls who sleep around will get killed

I didn't get that message. I thought Theresa was trying to self-destruct. In the book I remember a harrowing scene where she is wandering around NYC at 3am. A policeman finds her sitting on a bench and tells her she needs to go home

[quote]R78 I remember a harrowing scene where she is wandering around NYC at 3am. A policeman finds her sitting on a bench and tells her she needs to go home

Doesn’t she then bend over the park bench and beg him to fuck her?

It’s usually cut out on television.

no the scene isn't in the movie

r78 That's what Ebert discusses in his review. In the book, she's a masochist but in the film, she's a hedonist.

Oh, I don't think she's a hedonist in the movie. I think she thinks she's making up for lost time, but she's really trying to punish herself. When she sees how men treat her, she thinks it's because she's ugly or scarred or deformed, and so she keeps going after that same treatment because she thinks it's all she deserves. The truth is no one gives a shit about her scar, they just treat her like shit because they can.

Good bar happend on the the Upper West Side. A recent item in an UWS blog said the book wasn't true. The guy she took home was the friend of a guy she knew from school where she taught.

I think they added a bit about her being empowered and "her own person" (I think she says at one point) to make her seem more like a feminist. It is a problem with the film at times. It does show how her picking up men is a compulsive behavior though. She has to get out of the apartment at times when I believe it is James who tries to confront her about her behavior. She can't look at herself so she runs to her compulsion.

Keaton's own bulimia must have helped deepen her performance. If you read her memoir her younger years were just consumed with binge eating and the effort it took to constantly supply herself with tons of food that she would have to carry home to her walk up apartment. Her life was a lot like Theresa's. She was just consumed with a different compulsion.

She writes about how when she was in "Hair" it never occurred to her to make friends or hang out with the cast. All her time was devoted to getting food. On matinee days she'd go by herself and binge on huge steak dinners then purge them.

Keaton's earnestness is beautiful at times. I love the scene where she goes to Levar Burton's house to ask that the sister get a hearing aid. The mother is defensive at first and Burton says "that's the teacher, mama." The mother just lights up like she has heard from Burton (who quietly observes a lot) how wonderful she is. James also watches the whole conversation and you can see how captivated she is with him at times.

Jessica Lange would have been stunning and more sensual as Theresa and Weld would have been more believable as her older sister.

Jessica was still just the girl from King Kong at this point. She wouldn't have been in contention for a serious role like this.

that notstarring.com site says that Keaton was interested in doing Frances at some point but it didn't happen and Lange got it.

^ Yeah, but she still would've been better than Keaton. And every actress under 40 wanted to play Frances Farmer.

Lange would have been good but probably more angry in the role. Keaton was excellent. No need to recast it with anyone else (but then you may be the Lange loon.)

Keaton is wonderful in the role, suggesting what is going on underneath Theresa while Brooks painfully tries to telegraph it through the dialogue and some of the cringey’70s porno memorabilia to show how liberated Theresa is. The fantasy sequences seem didactic but work on the strength of Keaton’s performance. She suggests the wounded, sad Theresa who covers that pain with sex, drugs and humor.

And for 136 minutes you need a likeable actress and Keaton was a great choice. A performance that is both intimate and accessible for a complicated character.

I haven't read the book since it came out or saw the movie since it came out. I really liked the book. I didn't like the movie. IIRC, the scoliosis was a big part of how she felt about herself and what drove her. It seemed not to be that big a deal in the movie. I didn't care for Diane Keaton, then or now. Weakest link in both Godfather I and II. She got a break in GFIII because of Sofia Coppolla.

[quote] If the film was made today, you know who would be perfect (looks wise especially) as Theresa/Terry? Lens.

Oh, no. Part of the whole deal for Teresa Dunn in the book (as was the case with the real-life model for the character, the murder victim Roseann Quin) is that despite her glasses and mousy day clothes, she could glam up and look quite attractive when she went out at night.

I've posted a photo of Quinn--she was quite attractive, was in decent shape, and had a great smile and a nice bone structure. Lens is not only too fat but too unattractive and too old--Quinn was only 29 when she was killed.

Diane Keaton was almost perfectly cast, but today you'd have to have someone like Saiorse Ronan or Evan Rachel Wood.

I could see a very risky feminist filmmaker like Emerald Fennell doing a good job with the story, actually.

I love Keaton in this but yes to all of this:

[quote] Jessica Lange would have been stunning and more sensual as Theresa and Weld would have been more believable as her older sister.

Weld and Lange should’ve played sisters decades ago; I would’ve loved the former as Mattie Fae Aiken to the latter’s Violet Weston, with Robin Wright as Barbara Fordham, in a gritty adaptation of “August: Osage County.” Alison Lohman and Lily James could’ve rounded out the rest of the women.

r92 I thought Theresa was slightly overweight/dumpy in the book?

R84 I wouldn’t be surprised if she was still dealing with those bulimia issues around the time she was filming this - celebrities always confess to kicking habits well before they do (conveniently it’s almost always right before they become famous) and she still was very skinny all throughout the 70s.

Ebert wrote a very good review of this movie and said you knew something bad was going to happen with Gary because it was the first scene in the whole film Theresa wasn’t in /wasn’t from her perspective.

[quote]R86 Jessica Lange would have been stunning and more sensual as Theresa and Weld would have been more believable as her older sister.

Teresa is supposed to be an ordinary school teacher from the Bronx, outshone by her older sister.

She’s not a physical goddess.

[quote]R83 A recent item in an UWS blog said the book wasn't true.

Well, the book isn’t “true” because it’s a novel that’s only inspired by real life events.

[quote] The guy she took home was the friend of a guy she knew from school where she taught.

No. Roseann Quinn’s killer, John Wayne Wilson, was a drifter staying with a man who never met her.

The real life killer:

I really liked Richard Kiley in this film. That's exactly the kind of loony father that a Teresa might have. I know that guy.

I recorded it and just watched it. God, that ending is going to give me nightmares for weeks.

They need to remake it as a gay Teacher named Chasten.

The best thing in the movie is the opening credits scene with the great disco music and the black-and-white stills.

Many moons ago my aunt wanted to see Looking for Mr. Goodbar and was babysitting me. She thought it was a good idea to take 8 year old me to this movie. I don’t remember anything about the movie except there was a sexy part and my aunt covered my eyes. Is it worth watching?

How can we forget the theme song?

But, does Teresa find love?

[quote]So far Brooks has survived. But sometimes his bones ache with the pain of not compromising. A few days ago Barbra Streisand called up and offered a song she had just recorded for her new album, “Love Comes from Unexpected Places.” She thought it would be perfect for his film. Her only stipulaton was that it be played under the opening titles. The studio executives were ecstatic. A Streisand song properly promoted might add $1,000,000 to the gross of the film.

[quote]Brooks squirms in his chair. “It's a lovely song,” he says. “It fits the film. And Barbra is marvelous. But it gives the whole picture the wrong tone. The frame is from Cartiers and we've got a ring in there from a popcorn bag. If the song didn't have to be under the opening titles or if someone with a less marvelous voice was singing it . . .Maybe I'm wrong,” he says softly. “But in the end you have to do what you believe.”

The part where she says "to all the lonely people on Christmas Eve" is so touching.

It is at a part where she is actually being vulnerable with James. It's so tragic. James really loves and respects her. She just is too damaged to accept it.

Tom Berenger is really quite good in the film. Gere is a little too over the top but Berenger just smolders and then when he suddenly gets violent...it's pretty riveting.

Tom Berenger was ridiculously hot in this movie - that chiseled 6-pack muscle power bottom look was not that common at the time. He was the perfect twink-becoming-man and the horrifying ending he brings probably set back gay rights a decade. But, he was hot.

R83, that's weird. Do you have a link or something?

[quote]R106 It's so tragic. James really loves and respects her. She just is too damaged to accept it.

I’m more familiar with the book than the movie (which I’ve seen twice (many years apart) but Theresa’s conflict with “good guy” James is that she just isn’t sexually attracted to him.

I think we’ve all had a friend at one point or another that wanted to take things further, but that we weren’t into physically. Is it “tragic” that we didn’t decide to settle down with them?

I agree, R90. She had a rotten dad, so fell for the same type (professor) and got her heart smashed. Then she tried to just go with the flow of the seventies, but it became a degrading cycle. She wanted to die on some level, as her rage at men was turned inward.

I know the movie better than the book r110.

In the film it is tragic since as he says he's her only real relationship (person she talks too) She has no friends. Sister is too self-involved to really be there for her. And it's tragic because her avoidance of him leads to her murder.

I never get why she is so amused by the condom.

I wonder if Keaton doesn't talk about his film because it hits too close to home. The compulsive behavior plus her own dating life. She admits she was only interested in men who were big stars and made her feel important. I've heard her say she wishes she had given some ordinary guys a chance.

She hasn't had a date in 35 years she says now.

R113 In the 70s, condoms were thought of as a bit of a joke, since most sexually active women were on the pill. Condoms were thought of as kind of a silly throwback to the 50s. So when Theresa sees that James is wearing a condom, she thinks he's kind of an unenlightened nerd to be wearing one.

Condoms didn't become a thing again until the 80s and the AIDS crisis. But condoms were now used to prevent STDs, not pregnancies.

I thought Theresa was a real cunt to James in that scene. It pissed me off.

^ ^ She resented him because her father embraced him, wasn't that obvious? She despised and feared her father, so James got the brunt.

It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I recall Keaton being wonderful as Theresa — what a one-two punch she had that year, with “Annie Hall” and “Looking for Mr. Goodbar”. I remember she landed on the cover of TIME magazine that year (yes, I’m an eldergay!)

I thought Tuesday Weld was well-cast as the beautiful older sister, and did a nice job. But I remember the family scenes with Richard Kiley being hysterical and jarring, and his performance being WAY over-the-top. As screenwriter and director, that was Richard Brooks’s fault.

As others have posted, Keaton really never talks in-depth about any of her projects, which is disappointing as someone who admires her work.

I’m interested to see it again, to see how it holds up.

I remember Saturday Night Live did a commercial parody for The Goodbar Sleepytime Playset:

"You’ve read the book, you’ve seen the movie… Now introducing The Looking For Mr. Goodbar Sleepytime Playset, for single little girls! Yes, now your little girl can recreate the grim reality of Judith Rosner’s bleak novel of hopelessness and despair RIGHT in her very own bedroom, alone at night! It’s exciting AND educational!"

It featured Gilda Radner as her little girl character, playing with a Diane Keaton-looking doll. She's told by the announcer she has to keep picking up strange men until she's killed.

Another commercial parody that could never be shown today. I tried searching YouTube. If some great DL sleuth can find it, please post.

Two questions: 1. Does James turn psycho stalker in the book? That story he tells about his mother is CREEPY. 2. Speaking of creepy, does anyone besides me get a faint incestuous vibe between the father and Tuesday Weld's character? The way he forgives her on the phone for not showing up at Thanksgiving, treats her as the clear favorite since she's the pretty one, not deformed/"twisted" like Theresa and poor Maureen? Are either of these suggested in the book? (I really need to get a copy soon - my library doesn't have it)

Just curious -

r119 James is nowhere near as creepy in the book. The film makes him practically interchangeable with all the other creeps. One of Theresa's final thoughts when she's being killed is something to the effect of her thinking she should've just married James.

Theresa is much more unpleasant in the book. Even bigoted. In the end, you're almost more sorry for James and what her death will do to him (and almost glad he's free of her) rather than her.

She also had a brother, whom she was very close with, who was killed in war in Vietnam. I remember Katherine not being much of a presence in the book, whereas she's an amalgamation of the sister and her friends (she has some in the book) in the film.

R106 I didn’t find James that nice or her potential Mr. Right. He was a fucking creepy stalker. He’s lurking around every corner when she goes out or comes in. Plus the way he insinuated himself into her family and laughed in her face when he lied about his mother and father was downright fucked up. And he wondered why she kept being so aloof with him. I found it funny when he called and she hung up on his ass.

Kiley is over the top BUT Keaton is riveting in that scene where she goads him into admitting that he knows why she fears getting pregnant.

The way she yells SCOLEOSIS Papa! And then gets right in his face listing the symptoms. Then he starts with the my mother had four boys all perfect. Keaton's noooooo! Indicating the sister is just stellar.

I agree r122 Kiley was over the top but he was good in that scene and Keaton was amazing.

R117, you review the film in glowing terms and then write that you need to rewatch it to "see if it holds up." I hadn't seen it since the seventies, but I watched it again before posting that Weld's performance was annoying. Maybe she'll annoy you, too, when you finally get around to refreshing your memory!

^^ This. Is. SACRILEGE!

"Of parted lovers it is writ/But thou, my dear/Art still shit..."

Warren Beatty became infatuated/obsessed with Keaton after seeing this and it led to their relationship.

I didn't love Weld in this. She was fine, but I wouldn't have nominated her for an Oscar. Of course, Keaton dominated, and what she didn't manage, Gere picked up the slack. It wasn't so much that he gave an amazing performance, but you could see a star being born.

I love the film, I think it holds up wonderfully, and I wish it would get the home video release it deserves before everyone who can discuss it knowledgeably is gone.

R128 A relationship that didn't last long and all ended in tears for Diane.

R124, I wrote about Diane Keaton in glowing terms, not the film. I initially saw the film during its theatrical run, then revisited several years ago when it was uploaded to YouTube — it used to show up briefly there from time to time, before being removed by the copyright watchdogs.

Did anybody else feel sorry for Gary's gay lover when he was begging him not to leave him?

Yes, r132 he was pitiful but I felt bad for him.

He was played by Richard Bright, who was married to DL fave Rutanya Alda, who was also in this film.

I believe Ru found Mr. Goodbar in Mr. Bright on this film!!!

He kind of dodged a bullet (or knife).

R133 Oh, my gosh! He's the guy who was run over and killed by a New York tourist bus in 2006.

[quote]He was played by Richard Bright

Yeah, I just looked him up.

The scene where George begs Gary not to go is more heartbreaking than the ending to me. Begins at 3:09.

Keaton brings up Goodbar and talks briefly about it in this 2019 interview. If you ask her about it, she'll talk about it. I don't think she's ashamed of it or anything. Like mentioned before, she's just uncomfortable talking in-depth about her career in general.

Having grown up in a scary Irish family myself the scenes with her parents gave me chills. I remember seeing it in the theatre and wondering if Gere, Atherton or Burton kill her then along comes Berenger out of the blue.

I just got around to watching this tonight. Hadn't seen it in years. I think it holds up beautifully and Diane Keaton is simply mesmerizing. The ending, of course, was sad and very haunting.

Frankly, I'm surprised Tuesday Weld was the only one to get an acting nomination. No disrespect to her but I actually thought Richard Gere was very worthy of a nomination as was William Atherton. Both in my opinion gave wonderful performances.

Richard Bright's scene where he's begging psycho not to leave him tore me into shreds more than the ending did.

Shit movie.

true r140 Gere, Atherton and Berenger were all better than Mikhail Baryshnikov who got a supporting actor nomination and barely spoke. It's not a dance award.

Keaton won for Annie Hall that year but her work in Goodbar was far superior.

Having the two performances probably helped her win for Annie Hall.

How did the world miss Richard Gere dancing around in a jock strap in manic chopping/karate moves and not realize he may play for the other team? You could see it from space.

Her performance in Goodbar just shatters Annie Hall. I mean, Keaton is absolutely enchanting and lovely in Annie Hall but she's magnificent in Goodbar.

She has chemistry with everybody in the film - from the deaf children to the pickups and she makes Theresa likeable. It's easy to see why Brooks chose her and even Rossner liked her.

Goodbar was a bad movie with a terrible screenplay. Annie Hall was a masterpiece.

She deserved to win for Annie Hall, not for that wretched crap Goodbar. She won for the right movie.

Did Brooks have to convince people to hire her? She had never done a part like this and was pretty much just known as Woody Allen's sidekick.

Were other women wanted for the role by the studio? Who?

R149 I’m GUESSING (and I’ve really never read anything on the casting) that the more “established” dramatic actresses of the time would have turned it down because of the nudity and graphic sexual content (the same way everyone turned down Basic Instinct). So it ended up being an opportunity for an on the rise actress with something to prove (namely, that she could more than hold her own in dramatic roles).

I may have posted this already but I remember David Letterman reading off a list of her films when she was a guest. When he got to Goodbar she laughed and said something like wow that was a movie. I'm not sure how I got the nerve to do it.

From "Rolling Stone" (1977):

Two years ago, when Freddie Fields made his production deal with Paramount, Goodbar‘s lead character — Theresa Dunn — became one of the most coveted roles available for actresses. Keaton had read the novel. “It struck me as a nightmare, but I wanted to do it.” Keaton was actually rejected, out of hand, when her name first came up at Paramount. She was considered too old — by some ten years — and too much a comedy actress. Over the next six months, some 300 actresses were considered, including all the big, obvious names: Streisand, Dunaway, McGraw and, for some time, Sally (The Flying Nun) Field. But Freddie Fields himself pushed for Keaton — “I had seen her in everything, and I was dedicated to get her, to sell her to everybody that needed to be sold.”

Brooks, a former reporter, dug into the incident on which Judith Rossner based her story and came up with his own vision of Goodbar: “It’s a story about a girl today who is influenced by many things — her background, her father, her family, her church, advertisements, the sexual revolution. These places, these singles bars, are her living room. She wants to feel the sensations, the passions of life. And who doesn’t?” Yet, by day, Terry Dunn, as Brooks has written her story, is a devoted teacher — not a public-school teacher, but a teacher for deaf children. In short, he was looking for a Dr. Jekyll/Ms. Hyde. From several of her films, Brooks saw Keaton’s sensitive side. “The next question was, what about the sensuality of the story. Well, Diane is a sensuous woman. She doesn’t dress like it, but that doesn’t mean the woman is not sensual.” After a meeting with her she became the first character cast. Keaton began preparing for the part by studying the script with her acting coach, Marilyn Fried from the Actors Studio, and doing, by herself, “sensory exercises.” She is hesitant with specifics, but the daily routine included “exercises in my fantasy life and trying to be free sexually.” The exercises were a “freeing agent.” She would close her eyes and imagine that she was Terry Dunn, who “acts out a lot of her things much more than I would. And your imagination works a lot.” Keaton was even able to recall teenage fantasies. “Sure,” she says. “I mean, I had all those fantasies … and that’s where it can work for you, fessing up to having fantasies that involve being aggressive or that involve hostility, because all those elements are there in your mind.”

Brooks wrote Keaton into every scene, so that Diane was required on the set for 76 days straight, at least eight hours a day. Brooks clamped the set tight and, for the sex scenes, kicked most of his crew off the sound stage. “And he devised all types of methods for me to feel comfortable,” says Keaton, “so if I could feel more comfortable wearing a pair of stockings, then that was great… . . . . Also, the thing is, when you’re performing it, it’s okay, as long as you’re doing something. It’s before and after, when you have to wait before they say ‘action.'” Brooks says that after certain scenes of violence, Keaton became physically ill. “She would say, ‘I don’t know what’s inside of us!'” But Keaton lasted out the 76 days, even with a fractured rib for the last two weeks, following a scuffle in one scene. “She’s a gutsy broad,” says Brooks.

In her most difficult assignment yet, Keaton has done well by her new director. She even made him laugh, and helped inspire him to add laughter to the film character of Terry Dunn, as differentiated from the character in the book. “I tried to utilize Diane’s natural sense of comedy,” he says. “In the movie, the girl has tremendous joy in living. She is not sorry for herself — I can’t stand that in anybody!” Keaton herself is hopeful. “I’m real scared. I hope it’s good.” Since she is in the entire film, she reasons: “If this movie bombs I’ll have to take a lot of the responsibility. If people look at me and say, ‘I don’t like this person,’ then it’s not going to work.”

R152 so she was supposedly too old, yet all the actresses they mention for consideration (with the exception of Field, who would have been awful) were significantly older? Makes sense.

If they had really wanted someone 10 years younger, they would have had to go with an unknown. Pretty much any actress kicking around in the 70s that was known in the industry was Keaton’s age or older.

It felt like Richard Brooks only did the film just to do that last scene.

She was hardly an untested entity as a dramatic actress, having been in both Godfather movies. She had made 3 movies with Woody Allen before Annie Hall and Goodbar.

This Daily News article has another photo of Roseann Quinn:

And this is a picture of Quinn's studio as the police found it:

R155 she had small roles in The Godfather films and was completely overshadowed by the well known male actors in them. In the mid 70s she was primarily known for Woody Allen comedy. She was an inspired choice though and completely worked in Goodbar.

I agree, R158. Even the critics who disliked the film (like Vincent Canby in the NYT) praised Keaton's performance and basically said it was worth seeing just for her.

[quote]R152 Over the next six months, some 300 actresses were considered, including all the big, obvious names: Streisand, Dunaway...

Tina, [italic]bring me the cock ! !

Has anyone seen the episode of "A Crime to Remember" that they did on the real case?

The one hope this movie has of becoming rentable or purchasable in HD is if Paramount licenses it to a digital streaming platform like Amazon or iTunes. I think Little Darlings is also Paramount, and music rights issues are what has prevented it from getting a blu ray. However, Little Darlings is now available to rent or buy in glorious HD on Amazon (and I think iTunes), with its original music soundtrack intact. So the same thing could happen with Goodbar, if there’s any justice in the world.

I was surprised to see composer Fred Ebb ("Cabaret") had a connection to this case. From Wikipedia:

[quote]Guest was not sure whether Wilson had committed the murder until he saw Quinn's name in a newspaper article. Fearing that he might be charged as an accessory after the fact, Guest first called his friend Fred Ebb and Ebb's personal assistant, Gary Greenwood. Guest told Ebb and Greenwood that he could not tell them what had happened over the phone, but said that it was the worst thing with which anyone could be involved. He said he was going to California to see them and then hung up. Guest arrived at Ebb's home in Bel Air, Los Angeles the next day and then told Ebb and Greenwood about Wilson and the murder. Guest said that he had been out with Wilson and had left early because he had to go to work in the morning. He said that when he woke up, Wilson had not returned to the apartment, and Guest became worried. Wilson subsequently arrived and confessed the murder to him, and Guest gave him money.

[quote]Ebb called Guest's therapist, Hadassah, in New York; she said that she would contact an attorney and would call him back as soon as possible. Shortly thereafter, she and the attorney called back; the attorney advised Ebb to put Guest on the first plane back to New York City. He also advised Ebb and Greenwood not to say a word about what Guest had told them.

[quote]In mid-March, Ebb and Greenwood flew to New York City. It took more than two weeks to convince Guest to talk to the police, as Guest agonized over the fact that his information could send his friend Wilson to prison for life or to death row. Guest's lawyer contacted the police and secured his immunity in exchange for revealing Wilson's location.

I guess she went out like Elsie.

R158, her role was fairly small in the first Godfather; in the second, she was listed as the third lead (and yes, overshadowed by the men). But casting her in Goodbar wasn't out of nowhere.

Her "I had an abortion" was a pretty big dramatic scene in the Godfather sequel so it wasn't that much of a stretch to see her doing Goodbar.

R166 that scene was great. But there’s all the difference in the world between a three minute Godfather 2 scene she was in, and doing a film like this where she has to dominate the whole pic and be in about every scene. Keaton wasn’t one of the top dramatic actresses in the mid 70s before LFMG. Like it’s stated above, 300 actresses were considered. I’m sure Diane felt she had something to prove in a great, dark dramatic role. Ali might’ve pulled it off if she threw herself into the role and learned better acting techniques, but like I said Diane was perfect as it turned out.

R167 I remember when the movie came out, and yes, it helped cement Diane Keaton as a bona fide movie star. Annie Hall established her as a solid comedic actress, but the critics that year also raved about her role in Mr. Goodbar, which was something audiences weren't expecting from her, and her first role in which she was the sole lead and not the wife or girlfriend of a male lead.

After her Oscar for Annie Hall and her solid performance in Goodbar, Keaton made it to the A-list.

IMO, it couldn't have been anyone better than Keaton. She is not beautiful, just attractive, and so doesn't have that look on her face that beautiful women get--she looks like she could be vulnerable about her looks. Also, she has an edge that McGraw, for example, could never convey. Keaton seems like someone who could be bitter, self-destructive, etc.

R161 I watched A Crime to Remember and thought it did a decent job of laying out the case. I hadn't realized Looking For Mr. Goodbar fictionalized/changed so much. Kind of preying on the dead for profit.

[quote]R167 Ali might’ve pulled it off if she threw herself into the role and learned better acting techniques, but like I said Diane was perfect as it turned out.

Do you mean Ali MacGraw? She would have been stiff and terrible. She was surprisingly good under Sidney Lumet’s direction in JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT... but everything else has shown her to be a wooden clothes hanger.

She doesn’t have the kind of exhibitionistic freedom that’s required to be an actress.

R170 I just can’t believe that Alan King aka Mel Bushman ever got first billing in a mainstream Hollywood movie.

R170 like I said if Ali is a possibility. I’ve seen JTMWYW, and she was great in that. Goodbar certainly would’ve put her on another level, but I think around this time frame she was at the beck and call of McQueen.

I'm glad they didn't use Streisand's song for the movie. Marlena Shaw's is very moody and somber. which sets the tone right from the get go. Love Comes from unexpected places is a little too upbeat.

To be honest, Prisoner from Eyes of Laura Mars probably would have been a better fit.

Keaton is dazzling!

Keaton is erotic!

Keaton is divine!

Just Tell Me What You Want is one of my favorite movies. Love McGraw's and King's performances and the script is clever.

But what I wanted to say was that LFMG is so damned depressing and horrifying if you had a bad family dynamic like mine. The Keaton character was depressive (suppressed rage) and trying to survive her self-destructiveness . The book and film made it seem that being free sexually equalled a death wish and young 'ladies' should "marry the first decent guy and quit fucking around like sluts." Young women now don't have that kind of trip laid on them or at least not to the same degree.

I think "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" and "The Goodbye Girl" would make an interesting double feature given that both films came out in 1977, both feature the lead actor and actress Oscar winners for that year (Keaton won hers for "Annie Hall"), and both stories could have conceivably taken place within blocks of one another on New York's UWS. I think I'd watch "Goodbye Girl" last, though, because I would need it to cheer me up after the depressing ending of "Goodbar."

I saw Mr Goodbar at a dollar movie theatre. It was a double feature and the other film was Next Stop, Greenwich Village with Shelley Winters, Ellen Greene and the gone way too soon Lenny Baker.

I have a lot of respect for the ending because there is no epilog or a follow-up of any sort to try to make you feel better about what you just saw.. You never find out what happened to her killer, her family, anyone involved, or if a Theresa Dunn Foundation for Battered SIngle Women was established in her honor. Nope, what you see is Dunn's brutal murder, her face fades to black and the credits come up. The end, indeed. Big studio Hollywood movies with endings that bleak are few and far between.

What thhows me off and takes me out of this very fine movie are the bad location shots. In one scene, Keaton crosses what is supposed to be an NYC street, but there are palm trees in the background and it vibes Wilshire Blvd. And the longs scene in a parking lot towards the end that introduces Gary etc is all kinds of confusion. It's saying there are strip mall style parking lots behind bars in Mnanhattan, and that the gays treat New Years Eve like Halloween and go out in costume. We do? Someone upthread mentioned deserted streets near Terry's apartment. That's the Paramount backlot in Hollywood. The real bar in Goodbar was on West 72nd Street between Broadway and West End Ave., not far from the restaurant owned by Ashford and Simpson for many years. Theresa lived across the street from it.

Brooks never wanted it to be NYC-specific. In an interview he wanted it to be "any city". I don't know why, it doesn't really affect the story because it would still have an impact and people can relate to Teresa.

The ending is really vicious. It's pretty shocking almost 45 years later. Gary is still fucking Teresa after he stabs her and then he calls her a bitch. Shocking this came from a big studio. Would never be done today.

The way Tom Berenger says "I'm ready now" is so chilling.

And Keaton's scream of "do it" is interesting to analyze. Does she just want it over since she knows he's going to kill her? Is she so filled with self-hatred that she's glad that someone is killing her?

It has some great horror movie clichés even. It's so heartbreaking how she almost gets out the door but the chain is on and it gives him time to pull her back in.

R181, just my opinion but I think it all depends on the director. Some would be daring enough to do it, others would not. I also think if the director was a big enough name (like a Scorsese or Tarantino), I can't imagine a studio would tell them no.

As played by Diane Keaton Theresa Dunn is a warm, likable character, albeit a fucked up one. In the novel Theresa Dunn is, as one critic called her, "a chilly, unpleasant woman" and that is true. You feel sorry for her; she's an emotional cripple, completely unable to have a healthy relationship with a man, takes strangers home to have sex with them and considered that liberating. But it's difficult to like her, even though she was mentally damaged by having scoliosis as a child (she limps as a result of that), losing her older brother in an accident and realizing that her older sister is the favored one, or so she believes.

The character of James in the novel is intriguing if bewildering. A fellow teacher at school, perhaps sensing Theresa's terrible loneliness, fixes her up with James, a friend of her and her husband's. James immediately likes her but WHY? She's always snarky to him, even though he's kind and considerate and very tolerant of her frequent nastiness towards him. As it turns out James is a virgin at age 26; the only sex he's ever had was with a priest who had been his mentor. Not having had time to date due to working and supporting his sister and paralyzed mother, he now wants to get married. Not sleep around; the very moral James a committed relationship with a woman. And he wants to marry Theresa, telling her that ever since they met he'd considered her "a charming and interesting person (actually she's neither). James's attraction to Theresa is baffling. What DOES he see in her? My only explanation is that his heart goes out to her, this very fucked up woman who seems to have a lot of self loathing. At any rate, at the end of the novel, when Theresa meets her grisly end, all I could think was "Poor James. How is this going to affect HIM?"

R184, did the novel end like the movie, with the scene of Theresa's murder? Or did it portray some kind of aftermath (i.e., reaction by her family, friends, etc.)?

r179 I do wonder what happened to little Amy.

same way r185 she slowly slips away as the life drains from her body. The book ends in sentence fragments. She cries out for her parents.

I don't think she had scoliosis in the book. Wasn't it polio?

It's easy to see how James falls in love with her in this scene. She's so earnest and caring in trying to get a hearing aid for the little girl. He stands watching in awe and is smitten.

R182 I always thought the ending, where Theresa's screams, "Do it," then sounds almost orgasmic as she's being stabbed, was in some twisted way the ultimate sexual experience for her. What bigger sensation is there than dying?

R188, I interpreted it as she knew this was the end for her and just wanted him to get it over with but your observation is a very interesting one.

In the interview with Brooks which mentions the actresses considered, he also says he turned down a bigger budget. I guess he wanted that "cheap" look.

I think it being Diane Keaton makes the last scene more shocking, disturbing, and oddly fascinating. Based on all her other work, she just seems like the last actress who would ever do a scene like that.

Great movie but the cheap production looks like it was made for Lifetime tv.

Many major films in the 70s were gritty, not expensively-produced, but very interesting and thought-provoking. I can't say I "enjoyed" seeing many of those films (Goodbar, Midnight Cowboy, Straight Time, Cinderella Liberty, Fat City, etc., but I learned something from them.

I was watching Tuesday Weld in "A Question of Guilt", based on the Alice Crimmins case, and thought it had a very similar music score to Goodbar. Especially since it was made a year later. Turns out it's indeed the same composer: Artie Kane.

A messy, trashy movie I wouldn't watch again if you paid me. And Diane Keaton was all wrong for the part. For me, it was just straight male Hollywood trying to get "with it" and nasty about this "what's happening sex thing."

Can we talk about Alan Feinstein who played Terry’s married Professor lover. Woof. Saw him play Stanley in Streetcar. There were a lot of wet seats in that theatre. Including mine.

[quote]Many major films in the 70s were gritty, not expensively-produced, but very interesting and thought-provoking. I can't say I "enjoyed" seeing many of those films (Goodbar, Midnight Cowboy, Straight Time, Cinderella Liberty, Fat City, etc., but I learned something from them.

Agreed. I would say the look of "Goodbar" wasn't that much different from "Taxi Driver" the year before.

R17 'Teresa has scoliosis' So what? It hasn't left her with a limp as in the book and the slight scar looks like something you would get from siting on a wicker chair. Much ado about nothing. The film doesn't really explain the character's behavior.

I completely agree r197. She didn’t appear to be depressed and in pain because of it. Men don’t give a shit if a woman has scars or stretch marks when it comes to getting laid.

She was insecure about the scar. Plus her fathers strict dominantion of the house with the religion being crammed down her throat and him acting like a lunatic made her act out sexually. Plus I think with Katherine going off and doing what she wanted with many men probably fed into it.

"I don't think she had scoliosis in the book. Wasn't it polio?"

She had polio. I think it caused the curvature of her spine. She was operated on and was in a body cast for a long time. It leaves her with a limp that she doesn't seem to be aware of. When her professor lover asks her "Why do you limp?" she is shocked out of her mind. Having low self esteem anyway, the idea of her having of limp is unbearable to her.

The novel ends with her murder. She cries out for "Mommy", "Daddy" and "James." Before the killer smashes a lamp on her head, rendering her unconscious (he later stabs her "all over") her last thought is: "Help Mommy Daddy Dear God, help me-do it do do it and get it over wi-" The novel ends right there.

The novel begins with the killer's confession. It pretty well explains why he did it. He's a mentally disturbed drifter and petty criminal, pissed off about his gay lover ribbing him about liking guys (he does NOT consider himself gay), in a bad mood. He goes off with Theresa even though he's not much attracted to her; he just wants to get away from his gay lover. Theresa does several things to make him mad; she taunts him about him being gay, tells him he was "okay" when rating his sexual performance and right after they're done tells him "You can go now", which makes him feel like he's being shoveled out "like a piece of shit. " He tells her he's not leaving and she gets hysterical and says she's going to call the cops and that's when things get violent. He says he just wanted to get away but that she wouldn't shut up, and he got madder and got turned on by the violence and...well, that was the last one night stand for Theresa Dunn.

"I was watching Tuesday Weld in "A Question of Guilt", based on the Alice Crimmins case, and thought it had a very similar music score to Goodbar."

Is Alive Crimmins still alive? She was quite a controversial character in her day. A very strange, slutty woman who may or may not have killed her children.

[quote]'Teresa has scoliosis' So what?

A big part of it is that she is tormented that she will pass on the gene to her own kids. That's why she gets sterilized. She can't have a family like her catholic upbringing expects because she fears the kids will endure her trauma. She instead places her nurturing on the students but is still left empty feeling she's not complete as a woman. The compulsive sexual behavior like all compulsive behavior is to distract herself from her real fear and pain.

Thanks for that recap, R200. Fascinating stuff.

Just a thought, R200: maybe kicking the guys out after sex was empowering for her--made her feel a little less shitty after the affair with the professor (classic user), the Dr.Jeckal/Mr.Hyde types she met at the bars, but then she did it to the wrong guy. But I disagree with the poster who said straight guys "don't care about stretch marks and scars when they want to get laid." Yeah, maybe when they WANT to get laid, but after it's over, my sisters and female friends have told me most guys commented on their bodies without being overally nice about it. Felt entitled to evaluate them, I guess.

Although it was an infamous crime not a whole lot has been written about the "Goodbar" murder. Maybe because there really wasn't that much to say about the victim Roseann Quinn or her murderer John Wayne Wilson. Wilson was just a white trash loser, possibly brain damaged from an accident he had when he was a child. The only interesting thing about Quinn was her murder; as a person she seemed to be a big nothing.

Only one book has been written about this case, an "interpretive non-fiction book" by someone named Lacey Fosburgh. I read it; it's not very good. Fosburgh makes up dialogue and interactions between Quinn and Wilson, "speculating" on what they would have said and done. She doesn't even use the real names of Quinn and Wilson, calling them "Katherine Cleary" and "Joe Willie Simpson." It does contain some actual information about Quinn and Wilson and the murder. There's a lot more information about Wilson than you'd ever want to know because his family cooperated with Fosburgh, whereas none of Quinn's family and friends would speak to her at all. At any rate, Quinn and Wilson were two very uninteresting people. Two losers who crossed paths and ended up destroying each other.

R205 well that’s kind of how it goes - charismatic and good looking movie stars make interesting (sometimes fascinating) characters out of otherwise boring losers. Ahhh the magic of cinema.

No one has mention Search for Trackdown: Finding the Goodbar Killer starring Miss Shelley Hack

Damn take that 'search" out. It's just Trackdown.

and Miss Hack should have an explanation point after her name as always!

R207 damn that’s quite a career fall Mr. George Segal must have had. I know people have said “coke problem” but was his really any worse than the rest?

[quote]]R205 At any rate, Quinn and Wilson were two very uninteresting people. Two losers who crossed paths and ended up destroying each other.

I hardly think SHE destroyed HIM. Didn’t he do the work for both of them?

Segal had a great career. The man worked non stop for like 60 years. He made quite a few fine films. He just made the progression to TV when his film career dried up. Goodbar Killer he did was boring though.

R211 he had a nice a deserved comeback in the mid/late 90s with Flirting with Disaster and Just Shoot Me - that lasted pretty much until his death. But he had a pretty steep and fast fall post-70s (that’s not even an A list TV movie).

r161 r201 Funny enough, the very first episode of "A Crime to Remember" is about the Alice Crimmins case.

New Yorker who recently moved to a small city...I lived for 10 years within spitting distance of the bar and apartment building the broad got murdered in. The movie isn't great but Keaton is actually awesome in it. her titties are more symmetrical than her teefs.

R212 every actors career has peaks and valleys. True he did nothing of merit in the 80s until his small part in Look Who’s Talking which was a big hit.

"I hardly think SHE destroyed HIM. Didn’t he do the work for both of them?"

Well, in a way she did. If they'd never met he would have remained alive, but for who knows how long. He seemed doomed. He was very mentally disturbed but apparently got no help for it at any period in his life. He seemed to have no luck at all. He was put in the Toombs for a while, then sent to Bellevue to be tested for childhood brain damage, which might have been used as a defense at his trial. But for some reason the tests were never administered and he was sent back to the Toombs. He'd been diagnosed as suicidal but the cells for the suicide watch were full, so he was placed in a regular cell. He got into an argument with a prison guard and threatened to kill himself. The guard taunted him by asking if he wanted sheets to help him kill himself and later threw bed sheets into his cell. Wilson used the sheets to hang himself. An investigation was held into the circumstances of Wilson's death, but no charges were ever filed. How's that for doomed?

Wilson had a pregnant teenage wife, like the killer in the novel. After his death she gave birth to his baby. The baby was born dead.

Was Shelley Hack considered for the role of Theresa? She would have brought a poise and confidence that Keaton lacked.

[quote]R210 I hardly think SHE destroyed HIM. Didn’t he do the work for both of them?

[quote]R216 Well, in a way she did. If they'd never met he would have remained alive, but for who knows how long.

And does a rape victim destroy their rapist’s life, by having met them?

R217. HACK???? What about ME!

I read the book but never saw the movie. Will TCM show it again?

"And does a rape victim destroy their rapist’s life, by having met them?"

That's definitely not comparable to the ill fated meeting between John Wayne Wilson and Roseann Quinn. Meeting each other's acquaintance caused the self destruction of both of them. It reminded me of something Truman Capote said about the murder of the Clutter family and their killers: "four shotgun blasts that, all told, ended six human lives." When Roseann Quinn and John Wayne Wilson's lives collided, it resulted in the deaths of both of them.

r220 they show it every now and then so probably

I was crossing West 72nd Street today, so I decided to walk towards West End Avenue past the building where Roseann Quinn lived. (I've lived in New York many years and never thought once about this case the umpteen times I've walked down that block until we started this thread.) Standing right in front of her building, I then looked across the street and saw the bar where she met her killer. Looks like it's a cafe or something now but I still felt a momentary sense of creepiness just looking at it and quickly moved on.

This bird has flown.

Dwellings where infamous murders have been committed always have a creepiness about them, R223. I wonder what happened to Roseann Quinn's studio apartment? Does anyone live there? There was a photograph of it, and it was unsettling. It looked like a garbage filled dump. Apparently Quinn was quite the slob. Wilson said of her apartment:“It was a mess. It looked like it hadn’t been cleaned in weeks.”

In Lacey Fosburgh's book she describes the scene:

"Clothes were all over the floor. A box of sugar had spilled on the floor. The sofa bed was unmade, opened out into the middle of the room, and there were dirty dishes in the kitchen. Spaghetti sauce had dribbled down the front of the stove, and orange juice had hardened on the floor.

The 23-year-old man looked around with the eyes of someone who had always lived in a spotless house and liked it that way. His sense of the woman shifted and took on an element of disgust."

It’s ironic how 72nd street on the East side is generally considered the best “most posh” side street (as a whole) but on the west side, even the Dakota block between CPW and Columbus (which is generally a very good block), is so sketchy.

The scene with the roaches crawling over Keaton and Weld is gross.

Considering how nasty Quinn's apartment was I'm sure the roach crawling scene was quite accurate.

R223 went looking for Mr. Goodbar ... and survived.

It was Oprah, not Letterman, where Keaton talked about being shocked that she had the guts to do Goodbar.

R230 Well, she did say she loved playing the role, so that's a good thing. It's not like she disavowed it.

True, R231, though it would've been nice had Oprah asked her about having played a role in such a controversial film vs. superficial questions like "What was it like working with Richard Gere?" and then moving on to the next subject.

I'm not a journalist but swear I could conduct a more insightful interview with these celebrities than the so-called "professionals" do.

This is the same interview where Oprah asked her what her favorite book was and she goes: “it sure isn’t the Bible.” Oprah looked horrified. I loved it.

I think the strobe light blips in the last scene were meant to mimic her heartbeat.

R232 Yeah, Oprah really blew the opportunity to ask more questions about the movie. It seemed like Diane was ready to talk about it more, then Oprah was like, "And then you were in Reds..."

Bitch, we weren't finished talking about Goodbar yet!

Be sure to go to only the really GOOD bars.

Letterman did ask her about it too r230.

He read off her credits admiringly and she said wow that was a movie, I can't believe I did it. Not in a negative way but just like she did with Oprah. Wow where'd I get the guts for that.

It was years before that Oprah interview.

"I've posted a photo of Quinn--she was quite attractive, was in decent shape, and had a great smile and a nice bone structure."

I've seen another picture of her where she's not obscuring her face with glasses and a head scarf. I think it might have been a high school picture. She wasn't all that. She kind of vaguely reminded me of Shirley MacLaine. She supposedly had great shame about limping when she walked and was self loathing. She'd pick up guys in bars, rough types that would knock her around. Maybe she thought she'd have some roughhouse with John Wayne Wilson; maybe she was into that. Maybe she was disappointed there was no rough sex; supposedly she bitched him out about not getting a boner to fuck her with. But it's a REALLY bad idea to taunt a stranger you brought home about his sexual performance. That's really playing with fire.

This film was cautionary and helped me in a situation.

In college a guy was drunk and hanging all over me and rubbing up against me on a bus ride home (we were standing.)

I assumed he was into me. Later on in the week I approached him and said I was gay opening it up for him to say he was too. Instead he freaked out, like why do you think I"m GAY!!! (because of the bus...duh.) I immediately thought of Berenger and was like this could be trouble. Stay away.

oh and by the way it is a shockingly thrilling moment when Berenger suddenly gets angry and turns on her. It's like an angered animal going wild.

Gere was amateurish in LFMG. He's hammy as a NYC goombah: self-conscious, manic and- even though he's an attractive man- not viscerally sexy. He generally has no chemistry with women.

Yeah some poster said he deserved an Oscar nomination for it. Naw. Gere was a fairly new actor and it showed. But he was entertaining in it.

The only time Gere ever really showed talent was in CHICAGO, with it's strong material and direction. Before he seemed just a pleasant looking cypher.

Gere didn’t look as good in his jock as Berenger did in his panties.

Gere was presenter when Keaton won her Golden Globe for Something’s Gotta Give and said something like “aww I love this one.” I guess they got along.

I thought Gere and Keaton had great chemistry.

They're both fairly serious types who have played goofballs a lot, Gere sometimes inadvertantly.

Tuesday Weld and Richard Gere.

DLers, Goodbar is scheduled to air on TCM this week!

I've seen a slew of torrents for this available today. I think it's been added to a streamer. Looks like it has the OG soundtrack as well.

Yes, it’s up on tcm.com I think for the first time and it’s easy to copy if you have the software. I know when they screened it last summer they did not add to their website because I checked.

I love when the scene when Keaton picks up Weld then they go for a drive around the backlots of Paramount Studios.

Every time I watch this film now, I notice all the studio sets r252. It really takes me out of the film.

Even some of the scenes outside the bars look so studio-ish and fake.

R179, it's set in San Francisco. Listen to the bartender at 2:05:45.:

R254 The movie is *not* set in San Francisco.

R255, yes it listen to bartender.

Yes it is.

Theresa and Gary are in the bar when New Year 1977 chimes in and bartender says "Hey San Francisco, Happy New Year!" Then Theresa and Gary kiss.

R256 You sent a link to the entire movie. If you want us to listen to what a bartender says, you're gonna have to be a little more specific.

R259 the time code is 2 hours 5 minutes 45 seconds, where he says it, like I stated in the post (2:05:45).

R258 No, the bartender says "it's midnight in San Francisco!" In the film, Gary and his lover are celebrating the New Year earlier. This scene with Keaton takes place on the same night, after he's left his lover and after the new year has been rung in. So it's already the new year in their location and the bartender is simply telling the people in the bar that midnight has struck in San Francisco.

The movie is not set in San Francisco.

At 1 hour 57 minutes 38 seconds, while Theresa is cleaning her refrigerator, the announcer on the radio states "Happy New Year from Times Square in New York, good-bye to 1976". The clock atop the refrigerator states 11:00, a goof, should be 9:00 (3 hour time difference between New York and San Francisco), I can only hypothesize, since it was filmed in Los Angeles and Chicago, that the director originally was going to set it in Chicago (1 hour time difference between Chicago and NY). Also partying on New Year's Eve can start well before midnight, re: Gary and his lover out and about. The movie is definitely set in San Francisco

R262 That's not a goof. She's in Chicago or another midwestern city, not San Francisco.

If the movie was supposed to be set in San Francisco, they would have worked harder to make it look like San Francisco. San Francisco's look - its architecture, its streets - is unique. The setting in this movie could be Anycity USA, and it's clear at the beginning of the film when they show her parents' house, and when she's fantasizing about walking into traffic, that she's not in San Francisco.

R263, that is absolutely ridiculous. Audiences in 1977 probably would not have noticed the time goof since it was fleeting, but we can look at it with replay. There are no establishing shots (landmarks) to indicate whether it is New York, Chicago or San Francisco, none. Many movies are not filmed in the city's setting (Toronto might sub for NY, some successfully, others not). The movie mostly takes place in rooms, classrooms, night-time streets, bars. First you insist it is set in New York and that was proven wrong. Now you are saying it is in mid-western city when at midnight in the bar the bartender clearly states “it's midnight in San Francisco Happy New Year” while the TV flashes 1977. He would have stated “it's midnight in Chicago Happy New Year” for instance. It is set in San Francisco. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I will forever think of Goodbar as a New York City film because that's where Theresa Dunn was murdered. And she lived on W. 72nd Street between Broadway and WestEnd Ave. The bar was across the street from her apartment. But I agree there are several scenes that are terribly backlot-ish, a shot where it looks like Diane Keaton is crossing Wilshire Blvd., and the scene towards the end will forever confuse me. It's saying gay bars in New York—or even San Francisco for that matter—have parking lots behind them like strip malls, and if you're gay, you celebrate New Years in costume, as if it's Halloween.

Why would the bartender say "It's midnight in San Francisco!" if they were already IN San Francisco?

Richard Brooks himself said he deliberately set the film in Anytown, USA. No specific city.

r265 Keaton and Weld driving around the Paramount studios backlot when Theresa picks up Katherine is hilarious.

R194 agree completely. R226 When you walk down 72 St as you cross Columbus or even approach it the vibe completely changes. It doesn’t feel safe on the other side.

I read the true story behind that book and it bothered me for a very long time. NYC got even more dangerous in the following years.

R264 You're confusing me with someone else. I never said the film was set in New York City. I said it was set in Anytown, USA.

Keaton seems like she's in another, better movie. All the other actors are LOUD and one-note. But she triumphs over it.

If she hadn't won for Annie Hall, she should have won the Oscar for this.

OMG I read the book years ago, (it was my mothers) and it still haunts me. Thanks for the reminder.

Does anyone remember Rex Reed's big banner quote in the Goodbar ads that ran in the papers over and over? "If Diane Keaton doesn't win an Oscar, THERE IS NO GOD." I was a senior in high school at the time, and when she did in fact win the Oscar, I saw how Rex Reed intentionally left it a bit open-ended, and I saw him as a prophet, or at least a very wise man.