British Election Result: Labour Bombs

A thread was opened on this barely two hours ago. Please help stop the clogging of DL with multiple threads on the same subject? It's bad enough with the royals.

Please consolidate posts on this in the earlier thread.

Please continue to post on this thread.

The sane voter flushed bigoted turds Corbyn, Starmer and Labour down the loo.

My colleague just said, "Labour is doing worse than everyone other than UKIP/Reform. That's not a ringing endorsement." Greens seem to be doing really well, which is a nice surprise.

SNP isn't (so far) doing as well in Scotland as it had hoped, although it still has a fair chance of a majority. Conservatives aren't (so far) doing as badly in Scotland as was predicted. Labour is in the toilet.

r1, and yet you do not link...

OK, who are we pulling for, for Scottish Independence?

Aye, get rid of the lot of them, the whinging bastards.

[quote] OK, who are we pulling for, for Scottish Independence?

Alba!

SNP getting a majority doesn't mean anything but a mandate to keep whinging for a referendum. But in fact the polls for YES to independence are falling again. They are back to 45%.

In my opinion, Sturgeon has missed her moment again. The outlook for the UK economy is quite strong now.

Fascism is fun! Everybody get on board

R10 Sophomoric moron. Labour has taken those voters for granted for generations. Labour used to own Scotland, too. Now, they're behind the Tories there.

Maybe you should talk to the voters in Dudley and ask them why they finally ditched Labour.

Oh, god, the numbers coming in are worse and worse. Labour is completely gone.

Britain is a very conservative country. NuLabour was Tory-lite. No genuine left wing government has come to power in generations. At this rate, Tories will rule Great Britain longer than they did during Thatcher era. The country is QAnon Central and is only going to get worse with the upcoming 24/7 far-Right tv news networks starting this year. They’d elect Trump at this point.

Labour have lost contact with working class voters who are their main support. Labour is now a party for Palestine, for Remainers, for students, for university educated people living in London. They hate Britain, they can't be sensible, and your average voter doesn't like that.

Oh that’s good news r13. Please take him and his supporters too, UK. 🙏🏻

[quote] Labour is now a party for Palestine,

How terrible! Supporting people who’ve been invaded, occupied, and oppressed is so [bold]wrong![/bold]

R16 and yet they obsess excessively about Palestine while mysteriously saying almost nothing about what China is doing, or what Saudi Arabia is doing... Why's that? It couldn't be *gasp* anti-semitism, could it?

R14: How does Tory cock taste? Sour and sweet? That'd be my guess.

R18, I wouldn't know since I've literally never even voted Tory myself in my life, and don't know many.

Thanks for my daily dose of whataboutism and my other dose of Zionist red herring antisemitism accusations, r17! You’re like a pharmacy of awful things.

R20, I'm just explaining why Labour have lost the plot. If you think they're doing fine, that's not reflected in their results is it?

R21: No you're not. You're repeating bullshit from the right wing press. Cut the crap. Voters in Hartlepool blamed Labour for austerity, austerity that a Tory government of now 11 years standing implemented. There's nothing Labour can do to counterbalance retardation like that.

R22, Er, why would Hartlepool voters blame Labour for austerity if the Tories have been in power for 11 years? That doesn't even make sense. Can I have some evidence to back that one up?

Labour will not win another election until it reconnects with working class voters that is the truth.

R23: It's toward the end of this article.

[quote] Labour has seen its share of the vote ebb away in Hartlepool over the past 15 years, though the switch to the Conservatives has been accelerated by Brexit. The town where it was once said people could “weigh Labour votes, not count them” has blamed Labour for the loss of steelmaking jobs as well as cuts to the local hospital and police – even though those were largely due to the Conservatives’ austerity programme.

In 2017 Ben Houchen won the Tees Valley Mayoralty by a margin of 2%. An hour ago he was reelected by a margin of 45%. It isn't just Hartlepool.

R25, Oh, a Guardian writer's opinion! Excuse me if I don't take that seriously at all. The Guardian is a huge reason why Labour are so fucked. Their writers are mostly public-school (fee-paying) educated twits who write woke crap for the clicks knowing full well that it puts ordinary voters off voting Labour while of course, if Labour stays out of power, their own money isn't ever threatened. They don't have real skin in the game.

R27: You fucking twat. It's a NEWS article, not an opinion column. And there's the w-word, a word that means nothing anymore, just things right wingers don't like. You obvious troll.

R28, enjoy Labour staying out of power for several more years then.

[quote]If you think they're doing fine, that's not reflected in their results is it?

I'm not the person you're talking to, but surely we all recognize that political candidates or entire parties are not losing elections because they're "doing poorly" and inherently bad, right? A lot of countries are in the midst of a crisis of misinformation, a rise of far-right and fascist beliefs, and widespread political corruption.

It sounds insane to hear someone say they prefer the fascist corrupt "let the bodies pile up" rich twat stealing their money and taking away their basics of daily life, over Labour who supposedly "don't care enough about the working classes."

To say that and also say it's all Labour's fault is just lunacy. You've got a country full of people who WANT to see their fellow citizens suffering, who are lapping up lies like they were fresh water in the desert, and a media who keeps lying to you in ways that even the American media wouldn't dare. That's your real problem.

[quote][R16] and yet they obsess excessively about Palestine while mysteriously saying almost nothing about what China is doing, or what Saudi Arabia is doing... Why's that? It couldn't be *gasp* anti-semitism, could it?

When Keir Starmer filmed a video with a Union Jack in the background many in the Labour Party accused him of appeasing fascists. Many on the left genuinely see the Union Jack as a bad thing, yet a couple of years ago everyone attending the Labour Party conference was given a Palestinian flag to wave. It's just a coincidence that the Labour Party under Corbyn was found to have unlawfully discriminated against Jews.

R29: With voters so retarded that they think the opposition party of the past 11 years imposed austerity, it doesn't matter. The point is everything you claimed about "Palestine and college educated" and the w-word and the s-word and all your right wing buzzwords are false. But you are a troll who is wanking off to this result so who gives a shit what you think anyway.

Now you're posting stuff from Guido Fawkes, R31? Come on.

What's from Guido Fawkes?

Contempt for voters and calling them 'retarded' is definitely part of the problem Labour has.

It all started with Guido Fawkes propaganda, R34, and your media ran with it, like they always do.

[quote]Any plan to appeal to patriotic voters risked being undermined by a video unearthed by the Guido Fawkes website, showing Sir Keir saying that he had once wanted to get rid of the monarchy.

[quote]The 2005 film of barrister Starmer shows him saying: “I also got made a Queen’s Counsel, which is odd since I often used to propose the abolition of the monarchy.”

I voted Remain and would vote to rejoin the EU in a second, despite the vaccine cockup and many other accountability issues. But we needed to accept the decision and come together for the best Brexit deal. Theresa May's deal was the best on offer and Labour should have voted for it.

But telling people who voted for Brexit that they were ignorant and gullible and needed a second chance to make their decision again was never going to go down well with people, especially in Brexit seats.

When the awful Emily Thornberry was running for Labour Leader last year, Caroline Flint went on tv and said Thornberry had told another Labour MP in a leave seat "I'm glad my constituents aren't as stupid as yours". Thornberry made a big song and dance and threatened to sue Caroline Flint but then dropped the issue when she didn't progress in the leadership contest. Whether she said it or not it's exactly the kind of thing you can imagine southern Labour MPs saying,

Got a link for where Labour called voters "retarded," r35?

[quote]telling people who voted for Brexit that they were ignorant and gullible and needed a second chance to make their decision again was never going to go down well with people

It was a non-binding referendum.

R35: It's deserved contempt. And I'm not Labour, dipshit. I'm an internet commentator, just like you. Only I'm for real while you're just a trifling troll who has nothing of value to say. The Guardian article is clear that voters are well and truly clueless. It is a news article, not an opinion piece. But you can't handle this so you just mislabel it and refuse to engage. Total troll behavior. But congrats. You won, son. Whip it out, wack it and celebrate. But you can't even do that. You come on here to troll and pretend "working class" engagement is the thing.

Are you on crack R36?

What did I post that was propaganda.

When Keir Starmer appeared in front of a flag some on his party called him a fascist. TRUE FACT. Little Owen Jones was especially agitated by the Union Jack.

The Palestinian Flag was waved en masse at the 2018 conference. TRUE FACT

R39, that's sophistry. At the time of the build up to the EU referendum the government sent everyone in the UK a leaflet saying that the referendum result was final and would be respected. What was the point of the public voting if we all knew that MPs and the government wanted to remain? No-one apart from FBPE type of Remainers seriously believes it was a non-binding referendum.

R40, I bet I've voted Labour a lot more times than you have.

R36: As yes, the working class concerns of maintaining a monarchy in London, a city everyone north of the M25 detests. (Not an attack on you, just pointing out the absurdity.) It's not about "working class", it's about this bizarre English identity and stupid ass symbolism. The North of England is turning into the American South, where an insular in-group is now voting to hurt a nebulous out-group because the economy sucks. Nothing Labour can do about that, just like the Democrats can't do a thing about that in the South.....

There's nothing linking the two events r41.

The leaked memo about Labour considering appealing to patriotism was on February 2nd. It was reported on and no one really cared, because it's not a big deal.

Later that day, Guido Fawkes dug up some video of Starmer saying he was/used to be anti-monarchy, and tied it to the memo, even though the connection between these two things is tenuous. However, your media makes more money by shitting all over Labour, so by noon on February 3rd, the media had run with that angle and turned the whole thing into a "make fun of Starmer and paint Labour as hypocritical and evil and worse than Hitler" thing.

The truth of the matter is that the 2005 video of Starmer, the 2018 conference, and the recent leaked memo are three separate, unconnected issues, that have been pushed together to create a false narrative.

That's propaganda, baby.

Politically on some level you really do have to hand it to the pig fucker. Brexit is probably going to be an economic disaster. But he accidently managed to explode the Labour party to the extent England is edging towards being a one party state.

R43: I Was a Labour Voter until Ed Millband couldn't eat his bacon sandwich. Then I knew the Tories were the only way to go. I am totally a real person who thinks this way. I like to listen to all sides....

Boring Troll is Boring.

What the fuck are you on about?

Keir Starmer was roundly criticised by Corbynites for appearing alongside a Union Jack, the same people who had NO PROBLEM with the Palestinian flag being waved at the Labour conference. If you can't see a link between the two and why Labour is in a load of shit now, you're as blind as David Blunkett.

Who gives a fuck about Keir Starmer's views on the monarchy? I certainly don't care.

[quote]the government sent everyone in the UK a leaflet saying that the referendum result was final and would be respected

A lot of groups sent out a lot of leaflets, R42. Can you give me the name of this one you're referring to, or its usual descriptor?

Do you mean the "government will implement what you decide" leaflet? The High Court ruled that the leaflet was not a binding legal promise, I believe.

R46: Edging? It's a one party dictatorship already. Scotland seems the same way. Unless the South of England starts voting Labour. Stranger things have happened......

R49, are you even British? The government sent every single household a leaflet. I've linked to where it says that the government would implement the result of the referendum.

The big probably that Labour have is that they want to go campaign on morality and sleaze and corruption yet they're as nasty as anyone.

When Angela Rayner pops up on TV I think of the day a heavily pregnant Luciana Berger walked out of the Labour Party citing its problem with anti Jewish racism. Angela Rayner went on every news show saying she didn't believe Luciana, who was then ignored by Keir Starmer until the day before the EHRC published their investigation that Labour had broken the law by unlawfully discriminating against Jews.

Shami Chakrabarti's "independent review" into anti Jewish racism was a fucking disgrace and she was rewarded with a peerage and place in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.

Look at Len McCluskey using Unite money to fund jobs for his current girlfriend and former mistress in the Labour Party, using union funds to pay racist bloggers being sued by Labour MPs for libel and the corrupt funding of the Unite Hotel which is linked to the corruption in Liverpool that's led to arrests.

Boris Johnson is totally unfit to be an MP let alone Prime Minister, but going after him on wallpaper when you've got that much shit to clean up won't make much difference.

Foreshadowing of what will happen in U.S next year, and for the same reasons.

Labour not only needed to repudiate antisemitism, they also need to renounce socialism and many of their previous policies. They have counted on people whose families have always voted Labour without any thought behind it and on young people who are willing to believe in far left policies. That coalition is not big enough to win anymore. They need to rebrand as centrist.

[quote][R46]: Edging? It's a one party dictatorship already. Scotland seems the same way. Unless the South of England starts voting Labour. Stranger things have happened......

The SNP and the Tories need each other to keep power.

The SNP can point to the Tories and say "they're spoiling it for everyone, it's now our fault our government it shit, it's all the Tories fault"

The Tories can point to the SNP and say "If you vote Labour they'll have to go into coalition with the SNP and Sturgeon will be dictating everything they do, so you'd better vote for us".

Flush both of them.

The UK voters have the choice between gobshite A and gobshite B. No matter who they pick, they get a gobshite.

No wonder people all over the world are disillusioned about their local governments when all they can pick are dangerously incompetent people messing up their lives one way or the other.

I'm sorry you're slow, R48, but I explained it fully.

It's in the article "Labour left warns Keir Starmer not to wrap the party in union flag" which I can't link to on DL, as you well know.

A Labour memo written by a third party suggested the party use more patriotic symbols to appeal to voters.

The day that memo was leaked, Guido Fawkes posted a video of Starmer referring to being anti-monarchy 30 years prior.

The media connected the two things to make fun of Starmer and Labour. Outlets like the Telegraph brought up the 2018 conference and the "sea of Palestinian flags." The Spectator ran an op-ed asking why Labour was "embarrassed by the Union Jack."

In April, a Whatsapp discussion was leaked where one member of Labour said the use of patriotic symbols, especially the flag, was “another move from the Fascist playbook”. A couple of others in the discussion said they weren't comfortable with the flag usage and it came across as creepy.

The whole flag thing came up again, of course. It had also been making the rounds in the media in December of 2020. That's nearly six months of media and social media propaganda saying, falsely, that "Labour hates the Union Jack but loves the Palestinian flag."

And that's what you're trying to push. Pretend to be dumb all you want, but it's obvious.

[quote]That's nearly six months of media and social media propaganda saying, falsely, that "Labour hates the Union Jack but loves the Palestinian flag."

It's not propaganda if it's true.

Maybe you need to ask why The Guardian is taking the same stance on Starmer and the Union Jack as Guido Fawkes?

Because many of the left do have a visceral loathing of the national flag but are happy to wave the Palestinian flag?

[quote]Boris Johnson is totally unfit to be an MP let alone Prime Minister, but going after him on wallpaper when you've got that much shit to clean up won't make much difference.

Boris Johnson wants you dead.

Labour didn't investigate complaints of antisemitism in a timely manner and supporters denied local examples of antisemitism, in their fervor to defend the entire party.

There's a difference. And it's not about wallpaper.

Anyway, good news, Carl Cashman has been returned with a huge majority as councillor for Prescot North in Liverpool.

[quote]It's not propaganda if it's true.

You are absolutely worthless as a troll.

Why do we get all the idiot trolls who think "hurr durr I don't know what you're talking about hurr durr also I admit to everything you just accused me of" is good strategy? The BRF trolls do the same thing.

[quote]Labour didn't investigate complaints of antisemitism in a timely manner and supporters denied local examples of antisemitism, in their fervor to defend the entire party.

Labour elected a racist as leader, defended a racist and told people to vote for a racist.

Remember Owen Jones and his "no one was killed by a wreath" comment when the story about Corbyn laying a wreath for the men who planned the Munich Olympic massacre?

"Boris Johnson wants you dead."

See, this is the kind of ridiculous inability to be sensible that means people can't take you seriously - Boris doesn't want people to be dead. He's an optimist and very socially liberal.

So it WAS the leaflet I asked you about, R51. Why didn't you just say yes, that was the leaflet you were referring to?

Why are you ignoring the fact that what the leaflet said didn't (and couldn't have) changed a non-binding referendum into a regular vote?

[quote]You are absolutely worthless as a troll.

Did you support Labour giving Palestine flags to its entire conference delegation to wave in 2018?

Supporting Palestinian terrorists needs to be disqualifying.

R64 because like I say, it's sophistry. The government sent that promise to everyone. People take that at face value. No-one apart from the crazy FBPE Remainers think that it wasn't a 'real' referendum. Like I said, what was the point of spending millions on holding a vote if the Remainer government was going to do what they want (remain) the whole time. No-one seriously believes it wasn't a non-binding referendum in spirit. Again, it's this weird inability to be sensible going on here.

R67: It was a non-binding referendum. The legislation stated as such, and the Supreme Court ruled it as such. A leaflet does not change that, no matter how many times your "sensible" ass tries to make it so. What the fuck is even a FPBE Remainer? God, you right wingers with your phony conjuring words. You're all in a stupid cult, either side of the Atlantic.

R63: BloJo The Clown is a moron, a thief, a grifter and an asshole. They have the quote that he'd rather have bodies pile up than shut the economy down again. Therefore, R59 is sensible and you at R63 are a stupid troll.

Clap harder, tinkerbell.

[quote] You fucking twat. It's a NEWS article, not an opinion column.

Like there’s even a difference anymore.

R52 Nailed it, mate.

And Brexit isn't going to be a financial disaster.

Labour = SJW lunacy. This includes antisemitism, hatred of whites, hatred of Britain, hatred of women’s rights, and reveling in self-victimization.

[quote] And Brexit isn't going to be a financial disaster.

It will and already is. This is coming from someone who hates Labour mind you. Brexit will be felt once the pandemic is over. The price of shit thanks to shipping costs are through the roof.

[quote] He's an optimist and very socially liberal.

The guy that likened homosexuality to fucking animals??! Are you on crack?!!

R72, the pound has strengthened significantly since we left the EU and I've noticed - for example - the price of wine and tea having gone down but I'm just an ordinary pleb. I don't get fancy stuff imported from Europe.

R74, the benefits of staying in the EU will always outweigh the negatives. Brits now have shitloads of paperwork to fill out for everything they want. The country is full of babies. They will throw a shitfit once they see the EU benefits they enjoyed for decades revoked after the pandemic settles down. Mark my words. The entire Brexit debacle outed the UK as being inhabited by morons who didn’t read the fine print. Britain is a country that went crazy when they were told they couldn’t go to pubs because of Covid. It’s Jerry Springer Land.

[quote] Labour will not win another election until it reconnects with working class voters that is the truth.

The only way they can do that is by turning away from minority voters. Sad but true. Britain is white-first. The average Brit doesn’t see themselves as Labour’s priority due to skin colour. Don’t even get people started on trans rights. Trans rights are more controversial in the UK than anywhere else. Both the left and the right are anti-trans. Feminists are leaving Labour over it. I never thought I’d see the day, and no, I’m not the trans troll. Brits are insane when it comes to trans issues.

Labour’s support is now full-blown communist. The mainstream left them awhile ago, so putting someone like Keir in charge turned off their base. They demand someone like Corbyn. Until they get that they won’t be getting their votes. So Labour is basically left with no one. To get the working class back they’d have to piss off their core supporters now. It’s going to take multiple elections to gain the working class back and shove the far-left Lenin folks out, and even then they may not he found enough support.

[quote]The only way they can do that is by turning away from minority voters. Sad but true. Britain is white-first. The average Brit doesn’t see themselves as Labour’s priority due to skin colour.

The sad fact is while people on the left attack Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel for selling out and being race traitors, every time Labour has had a chance to elect a black or Asian candidate to a leadership role they went for an inferior white candidate who matched their ideological preference - Rebecca Long Bailey over Lisa Nandy, Richard Burgon over Rosina Alin Khan and that Scottish guy who everyone has forgotten over Anas Sarwar. Even in Wales they could have supported Vaughan Gethin over Mark Drakeford, but Drakeford was a Corbyn guy.

The Tories will have a non-white leader long before Labour finally elects a woman.

Anyway, I voted Labour today for the first time in over 10 years. My candidate won and is one of the people who ensures the party changes more.

The Party's are so similar that it doesn't matter who wins.

Turnout will average under 50% as usual.

The UK can no longer look down its nose at the US. At least the Yanks got rid of Trump. Conservatives have been running Britain for 11 years now, 3 PMs.

People have never gotten over Labour supporting the Iraq war.

Boris Johnson called gay men 'tank-topped bumboys' and black people 'piccaninnies' with 'watermelon smiles'

People couldn’t even believe Boris became mayor of London. He was seen the same way Trump was. A total clown.

Jesus Christ.

[quote]People have never gotten over Labour supporting the Iraq war.

No one gives a fuck about Iraq any more.

[quote]People couldn’t even believe Boris became mayor of London. He was seen the same way Trump was. A total clown.

And yet Londoners voted him back in 4 years later.

Boris has quite a good track record on defeating Jew obsessed pensioners in elections.

[quote] No one gives a fuck about Iraq any more.

They absolutely do and still go on about it.

[quote]Conservatives have been running Britain for 11 years now, 3 PMs.

Labour have been in power in Wales since 1999, the Scottish Nationalists in Scotland since 2007.

Did Sadik Kahn win mayor of London, the only place in england that matters?

[quote]They absolutely do and still go on about it.

A small number of Iraq obsessed cranks go on and on about it.

Even Owen Jones has stopped his automatic BUT IRAQ at the end of every comment on Labour.

[quote]Did Sadik Kahn win mayor of London, the only place in england that matters?

It's SADIQ KHAN.

He's ahead of the awful Tory but apparently it's a lot closer than expected. A mixture of low turnout and people voting for other parties because they thought Sadiq was so safe.

The UK Prime Minister isn't even close to being as powerful as the US President, If he has a big enough fuck-up the Tories will replace Boris within a month.

Who dat, R60? Hawt!

[quote] If you think they're doing fine, that's not reflected in their results is it?

Who said they’re doing fine? Your “explanations” seemed to suggest that what Labiur should be doing is adopting terrible policy in order to get more votes. Umm, OK!

How did Diane Abbot do?

[quote] they thought Sadiq was so safe.

They thought certain voters would vote as they were told.

And certain women are treated as chattel and they do whatever they're told.

[quote]How did Diane Abbot do?

It wasn't a parliamentary election.

I'm not sure why she didn't go to Hartlepool to campaign for Labour and tell voters that Shamima Begum is as much a victim of terrorism as the girls killed in the Manchester Arena bombing. That would have got the votes in.

R98 LOL.

The SNP won, but is one seat short of a majority.

The Greens will vote in favour anyway so not like that changes much. I now look forward to a few years of "we want a referendum!" "You can't have one!" until one of the sides does something drastic.

I thought Sturgeon's speech was nice to begin with - she talked about meeting Syrian refugees in a polling station and how emotional it was for her. But then remember this is the woman who claimed she didn't know about Alex Salmond abusing women to an extent female civil servants were never allowed to be left on their own with him, despite it being common knowledge amongst British journalists. And then oversaw her government refusing to release documents relating to it to the inquiry. And then there's the appalling record on education, health, drug deaths, transport and the financial lies she tells about Scottish independence that would make Brexiteers blush.

Why would the people of Scotland vote against their self-interest by voting for the SNP? Is it just to “own” the English?

Scotland have always had a grievance about the English, just as the English have had about Europe.

Scotland think their nationalism is better than other countries nationalism. The SNP have some of the nastiest bullies in British politics but it's overlooked because they're the good guys. Ian Blackford is the SNP leader of MPs in the House Of Commons. The way he and his team bullied Charles Kennedy, one of the truly decent men in politics, when he was struggling with alcoholism and grieving the death of his parents was horrendous. It's widely known but just accepted.

They SNP see themselves as progressive. The baby box is one example. They think everyone needs a free stuff when they have a baby so they put together an expensive procurement programme to distribute them. A lot of middle class people can afford the products themselves and poorer parents would benefit from other things, but they push ahead with it regardless of how ineffective and expensive it is.

And Labour are now in full meltdown over the election results which really weren't that bad after all.

Alex Salmond's ego party did appallingly, the Northern Independence Party with the whippet in the logo only got 250 votes in Hartlepool and racists Piers Corbyn and Laurence Fox are battling out with Count Binface for 6th place in the London Mayoral election.

Congrats to Laurence Fox who came 5th, ahead of the American guy who drinks his own piss and posts shirtless workout videos.

Count Binface beat the Women’s Equality Party, Piers Corbyn and the UKIP Gammons man.

A much closer result in the end but Sadiq Khan won.

Correction, Fox came 6th behind 4 main parties and YouTube personality Niko Omilana.

There's a pattern to UK Elections.

The first two years are a 'honeymoon period', year three people are starting to get fed up, year four they are seriously fucked off and begin to punish the incumbent.

Year five is a bit of a crap shoot, if the opposition looks somewhat sensible they have a reasonable chance of winning. If not the ruling party will probably replace the PM and hope enough people are fooled.

R98 What a pity. I was hoping to see a women of humility cross her arrogant face.

This is a quote from an actual Labour MP

[quote]Clement Attlee after the second world war, Tony Blair and New Labour, Jeremy Corbyn forcing a hung parliament in 2017 … the thread running through these electoral success stories is a vision for society that resonated in that moment.

These fucking nutters really think that Corbyn getting 55 seats less than Theresa May was an electoral success.

Where Sturgeon and the SNP are concerned, you have to understand that Scottish "independence" (as if, you know, they were sending 100 virgins a year to Westminster to be ravished in Parliament Square, instead of receiving huge amounts of money from the UK taxpayer via the Barnett Formula, without which its economy would be in even deeper shit than it is now) is the party's, and Sturgeon's, obsession.

Sturgeon has rightly come under fire for neglecting almost all the duties as First Minister, including education, health, and the national debt and economy, because her only focus has been another Indy/ref. This is what gets her and Ian Blackford out of bed in the morning, not what is actually happening in Scotland at any given time or what is actually best for the Scottish populace.

Sturgeon is holding out a rosy picture of turning into Denmark in the EU, when is is most likely to turn into Greece without the sunshine. The EU is having economic woes of its own, has handled the COVID situation abysmally, the northern and southern blocs are opposed to each other, and then there is the Visegrad Group and the fact that Erodan in Turkey now has his hands around the EU's throat thanks to Merkel's Migrant Folly in 2015.

The EU isn't Nirvana, its downgraded economic outlook means it won't welcome an economically spindly place like Scotland right now with open arms, and the polls show enthusiasm for a YES vote for independence now down where it was in 2014 - around 45%.

Meanwhile, Britain is signing multibillion trade deals worldwide, the pound as regained strength, its vaccine rollout success probably redeemed Johnson's career, and the economic reports suggest a strong rebound for the British economy. 85% of Scotland's trade is with England.

Sturgeon needs polls of close to 60% to have a hope of prevailing, and that isn't going to happen any time soon.

But, like most obsessives, she refuses to see the forest for the trees - as the SNP's leader, pushing for referendums on independence is pretty much her job descriptions, no matter how foolish it may seem.

The Scots were not conquered by England when they became part of Britain in the early 18th century - they were bankrupt: the country had invested heavily in a region that the malaria carrying mosquito devastated, it lost its investments, and joined up with the rest of Britain to save itself. The crowns of Scotland and England were joined a few years later, around 1707. James II of Britain is James VI in Scotland.

To hear Blackford and Sturgeon talk, you would never know that millions of Scots have blood and family ties that run both north and south of the Tweed, that this isn't "Braveheart - The Sequel", that Scotland has gotten immense benefits from being part of Great Britain, and that all Scots don't wake up in the morning hating England.

Labour used to own Holyrood. It was the collapse of Labour around 2015 that really put the SNP on top, and the Tories are now the second most powerful party in the country thanks to the leadership of Ruth Davidson (an out married lesbian, thank you very much), whose departure from politics to focus on family was regrettable.

SNP fell one short of a majority in its Parliament, the Tories got 31 seats, Labour came in third with 22 seats.

Sturgeon doesn't even bother to tell the Scots that this very good if not perfect showing gives her a mandate to try to address Scotland's economic, education, and health issues - no, it's about a mandate to spend her time badgering Downing Street for a referendum that 1) she knows he won't approve and without which she can't hold one, and 2) the polls show she'll lose - again.

Wee Nic should try doing what she's actually paid to do and that is address the Scottish people's actual needs NOW.

R110, yes they do, and this is why expectations management matters so much. I remember 2017: the polls and the media were predicting a blow-out May win, so when Corbyn came close, it felt like a big win for the far left and they're still acting like he won that election to this day even though he really didn't, didn't get to pass far left policy, and the only person who has recently is Tony Blair, by triangulating.

r111, and you neglect to mention the 8 Greens seats.

Fatal analysis.

A lot of people voted SNP for continuity of management of the pandemic, not because of independence. Yet all the interviews and news coverage today has been of another referendum, a hard border, trade deals etc.

And when we do have a second referendum, it's going to be narrow victory for whichever side, and neither is just going to accept the result.

Nicola has been riding waves of support. When Indy Ref 2 is called, Scotland will be independent of England.

Poor Wales.

[quote]Foreshadowing of what will happen in U.S next year, and for the same reasons.

That’s what I’m afraid of.

Why poor Wales?

Wales has always played second fiddle to Scotland.

Welsh voters decisively rejected the separatism Plaid Cymru and the pompousness of Adam Price despite huge media coverage trying to build up their support. If anything Wales would be treated better by a Tory government if Scotland fucked off.

Wales voted for Brexit as well. Wales is a lot further from separatism than Scotland is. I don't know why exactly but that's how it is.

Plaid's core support has mainly come from West Wales, previously a Liberal stronghold. It was a surprise that Leanne Wood won a first past the post seat in Rhondda in 2016 but she was very high profile having taken part in the general election debates and the Labour incumbent had been sacked as Education Minister for opposing his own policy.

The Valleys areas have been historically Labour whereas the more rural areas with farming communities have been a mixture of liberal/small state and are now voting Tory. The Welsh/English borders have had a long tradition of being flexible with people moving back and forward with ease and discussions around a border with England is very unappetising, as is the prospect of government services based along the M4 corridor moving to English cities in the event of independence.

R113 As this thread is about Labour's political fortunes, not the Green's, it's an appropriate analysis. I didn't include the Lib Dems, either. But as you bring it up, the Greens did well and not just in Scotland. In Germany, they actually stand a chance of beating the CDU.

In these tectonic shifts, it's rarely a straight line. They bestow and take away in varying ways. Look what happened in London's mayoralty race: Khan's majority was surprisingly cut down by Shaun Bailey, the (black) Tory candidate.

england is a fuck hole

Wales has effectively been part of England for almost 800 years (the English built all of the Castles).

The Romans also conquered and occupied Wales for 350 years, Welsh Independence is about as likely as Cornish Independence.

Labour took Chipping Norton... Did not see this one coming. The exodus of top of the line Range Rovers is going to be amazing.

R111 clearly works for Boris. Another rightwing troll.

Chipping Norton, lmao (that's where David Cameron, Rebekah Brooks et al live). See, this is Labour's problem. They've become the party of rich, university-educated upper middle class liberals. But that's not enough. It simply piles up votes in university cities and London. It doesn't win places like Hartlepool and Middle England type of areas.

It's a good laugh though because these people peddle stuff they don't really believe in themselves.

The hard left think that free broadband is an universal issue that Keir Starmer should adopt from the Corbyn 2019 manifesto that led to the biggest Labour defeat in decades.

For a lot of red wall/working class/common people the prospect of £25 less to fork out each month is appealing but the questions then arise of what happens to the different companies providing it now and all the jobs, will the service be better than it is now, if it's not better can I still go with a private company, how much is it going to cost to implement and how long will it take.

And when you discuss other priorities like road repairs, hospital waiting lists, more teachers in schools, food and heating poverty, it becomes much less appealing.

But the left obsess about free broadband.

The comments here seem to make it clear why Labour lost. This is a gay board; most of the posters here in America are quite liberal. Yet on this thread, the posters for the most part are right-wing Tory supporters. If the gays support Labour, that's a pretty bad sign for the party.

[quote] This is a gay board; most of the posters here in America are quite liberal.

It may be more accurate to say that most DLers believe themselves to be quite liberal, but their actual views on various issues, for example, crime and immigration, are certainly less than quite liberal.

r127 That's hilarious some of the elder gays on here would make Ernst Rohm look liberal Also would Americans stop trying to equate their politics with other countries. You have a fascist/religious alliance going on no other country has ever managed.

[quote]The comments here seem to make it clear why Labour lost. This is a gay board; most of the posters here in America are quite liberal. Yet on this thread, the posters for the most part are right-wing Tory supporters. If the gays support Labour, that's a pretty bad sign for the party.

Gay rights in Britain* are resolved. Even when there's been an odd clash between religion and sexual orientation under equality law, gay rights have won. Tony Blair's governments made gay rights such a non issue the Conservative government upgraded civil partnerships to marriage without being asked.

So it comes down to other issues. I couldn't bring myself to vote Labour when Ed Miliband was leader and there was absolutely no way I could vote for a Jew obsessed racist pensioner like Corbyn who is a lifelong Brexiteer. Labour have some good decent people in the party but it also has some truly despicable characters.

Labour are now complaining that some of Boris Johnson's policy ideas are Corbynite, even though they call him a fascist.

The problem with pitching Labour vs Tory as a morality battle is that both parties are full of horrible people. It's not like the Democrats where Biden and Clinton are nowhere near as evil as Trump. Corbyn IS worse than Boris Johnson. Starmer was right to suspend him from the party and he needs to do a Kinnock and get the rest of the poison out.

Preferring the Tories over Labour at the moment doesn't mean you're right wing.

*gay rights are clearly not settled in Northern Ireland, much to the shame of numerous UK governments

The biggest problem in the UK is how similar the Party's are, they agree on almost everything. I haven't heard a new policy idea in 10 years.

The both support the NHS, Gay Rights, Environmental Policies, Infrastructure Projects (HS2) and anti discrimination laws.

Neither side has a problem with Abortion, in fact it's almost never mentioned.

They could all be the the same Party, we'd never notice.

There is a clear difference on NHS policy. The Tories fucked up with English reforms in Cameron's early days but it has weathered the Covid storm and Jeremy Hunt and Matt Hancock haven't done that bad a job with it. The funding is increasing year by year and there are lot of challenges ahead, but the vaccine roll out has gone fantastically well.

Labour meanwhile insist that the Tories are privatising the NHS and selling it to the Americans. Corbyn's former chief of staff had an article published in the Guardian making this accusation. The problem with this is that Labour have been accusing the Tories of selling off the NHS for the last 11 years. Public/private collaborations have helped the NHS become more efficient, productive and SAFER, yet Labour are so stuck to a rigid NO PRIVATE EVER they don't realise the public don't care that much.

Even on the vaccine roll out, many in Labour simply can't say what a good job has been done as that will credit their two most hated groups: big pharma and the evil Tories.

Okay R130 -- not knowing British politics well, why is Corbyn worse than Johnson?

R132 Labour have been accusing the Tories of trying to privatize the NHS since 1979, but didn't change anything during their 13 years in power.

[quote]Okay [R130] -- not knowing British politics well, why is Corbyn worse than Johnson?

Corbyn is virulent lifelong anti-semite who has spent his life befriending groups who hate Jews, want to kill Jews, have tried to kill Jews and have murdered Jews.

He's also anti West to a point he will side with Europe's enemies, He's anti NATO, anti EU, he's pro Iran, so much so he took money from the Iranian regime to present a tv show on their propaganda channel, the same channel that showed the confession of a tortured prisoner. He always defends Russia, he defended their invasion of Crimea, appeared on their propaganda channel and his response the Novichok chemical attack in Salisbury was to give Moscow a sample so they could say whether it was theirs.

He's also a misogynist, and the way he speaks to female journalists is well known. He has the kind of attitude towards women you'd expect from a posh wealthy man with 3 brothers, 3 sons and 3 wives, each younger than the previous.

American left wingers have tried to compare him to Bernie Sanders. He's more like a cross between Jill Stein and Trump.

Boris Johnson is a lying, cheating, untrustworthy piece of shit. He's a fraud and a chancer and likes to cause deliberate offence by saying controversial things. I would never vote for him but Corbyn is worse.

Well, R135, I have to say, if all this is true, you definitely answered the question.

Boris is moving fast to secure his gains. There's a constituency boundary review in 2023 review as well and the last one massively favoured the Tories.

The boundary review isn't a bad thing. There is an argument for Scotland and Wales to have fewer MPs now they have their own devolved administrations and England to have more.

The proposed photo requirement change to voter ID law is a fucking disgrace though. If you want to commit voter fraud then postal voting is the way to do it. But I'm not sure Labour are in the strongest position to fight it. If electoral fraud is practically non existent and no changes are required, how did the Labour Party under Corbyn manage to employ someone as their campaign manager with a conviction for electoral fraud?!

Jeremy was very stupid

Labour did well in two places: Wales and the mayoral races. That said, they were down two seats in the Scottish Parliament, whilst the Tories held on to their 31 seats.

Labour lost one seat in the London Assembly, the Tories picked up 9. And re London, Khan won but the black Tory candidate came much closer than anyone expected. These numbers matters because changing demographics turned London, it was assumed, into a Labour stronghold.

Labour, like the SNP in Scotland, fell one seat short of a majority in the Welsh Parliament, because the Tories picked up 6 new seats, and Plaid Cymru picked up 2.

Labour took not one council seat from the Tories across the country, whilst the Tories took 13 seats away. The best Laabour did was change some Tory seats from Tory controlled to No Overall Control.

Mayoral showings were the best for Labour: out of 12 contests, Labour took ten, with the Tories taking two. One, Ben Houchen in Tees, was widely expected, he is immensely popular. The other, Andy Street in West Midlands, was a gain.

These are dire numbers for any political party. We can argue from now till Domesday about why, but the what isn't arguable.

Yes, and normally the opposition makes gains. I do get that it's a weird time because of the pandemic but it's still not good when the Tories have been in power for over 10 years.