Are you a TERF?

That tweet, and your post here, is just more Russian bot violence against LGBT people.

Russia celebrates LGBT! Here's Putin celebrating:

I'm really not that interested in Transpeople, it's an MRA movement that has found yet knew ways to fuck over women.

MRA?

Proud TERF here. I also believe LGB has no connection with TQ.

TERF = Believes in objective reality.

I'm definitely a TERF!

… and so what if I am? Bite me!

Entirely untrue, R3.

The American anti-trans movement began when the rightwing fundies weren't making any headway in their anti-gay crusade, so they repackaged all their anti-gay stuff and turned it into anti-trans, and it took off.

I feel sorry for the actual gays on here who fall for this shit. You're fucking up your own lives and you don't even realize it yet.

The anti-trans movement is funded by far-right anti-choice millionaires like Kaeley Triller-Haver and Zachary Freeman, and far-right anti-gay groups like Alliance Defending Freedom and Heritage Foundation.

Be very wary of anyone proudly describing themselves as a gay or lesbian TERF, because that's someone who is happy to have their anti-trans orgs funded by people who hate them for being gay.

R9 It's a mistake to assume that was spawned by right wingers out of a vacuum or that it's JUST right wingers and write all objections off as anti-trans or transphobic. Yes, right wingers have their own issues with it, and certain politicians used it as a cultural wedge because it IS a cultural wedge.

Most people don't have a problem with people using the bathroom that matches their presented gender. But when you combine the "Just let us pee" part with "women's sex-based spaces must now allow men" and "I'm a woman simply because I say I am" parts, that's when it becomes an issue.

It's self-id that is causing a lot of the friction, and it's people taking advantage of the current trends and sympathies to force people into giving up their sex-based rights. Of course the latest issue is confused young kids being encouraged to take puberty blockers (which are not fully reversible) when they would likely be gay or Lesbian.

If you try to discuss any of the above or express concerns, you will get branded a TERF and transphobic, by aggressive men. Argument is shut down or bullied away.

R10 there is no "anti-trans" movement. People really do not care that much about it or people living their lives as whatever they wish. What they DO care about is having one group's sex-based protections eroded or removed entirely in order to accommodate another group. Sex-based protections were not always there - they were hard fought for by women.

I'm more 'gender critical' than a 'TERF' since I'm a gay man and not sure I'm radical feminist nor trans exclusionary enough for the term to be accurate. I'm also British and here the gender critical movement is almost exclusively coming from the left.

^Virtually nobody who is called a TERF is actually trans-exclusionary or a radical feminist, which is the point of the video.

R13 "Gender critical" is what TERFs called themselves after the trans rights activists started using it as a slur. It's basically the same thing, but worded better than "trans exclusionary radical feminist".

The guy in the OP video is making the point (well, R14 just finished my thought for me)

[quote]here the gender critical movement is almost exclusively coming from the left

It's not. Groups like LGB Alliance are funded in part by the Christian right.

Either you've truly fallen for the propaganda and you'll eventually figure out you've been had, or you're not liberal/left at all and just want people to think you are.

Where are the TERMs? Straight men are overwhelmingly the majority of domestic abusers, but they're accepting, genuine and kind to FTMs? Any TERFs wondering where the complaints about TERMs are?

I don't need to watch a video, I know I am one.

R16 Prove it. You are just repeating talking points yourself. And I've noticed that the LGB Alliance in particular gets attacked with all sorts of lies and b.s.

Again, it's much easier to attack with ad hominems than it is to actually argue the points made.

[quote]The anti-trans movement is funded by far-right anti-choice millionaires like Kaeley Triller-Haver and Zachary Freeman,

[quote]Groups like LGB Alliance are funded in part by the Christian right.

What does this mean? I didn't need any "movement" or "funding" to tell me what to think. Do you think gender-critical people (I'd never heard that term) are just mindlessly repeating what people tell them and have no brainpower to arrive at opinions on their own?

Tell you what R16, why don't you prove they're not funded by right wing Christians?

Yet another eye rolling DL anti-trans thread, it really is becoming so obvious, time Muriel dipped a hand into the murky DL waters here.

Cross eyed, I was referring to R19 replying to R16...

Glad you added that r22, I was scratching my head there for a minute.

The LGB Alliance is the group who spoke out against gay marriage on Twitter.

Anyway, I thought I included this link at R16, so here it is, R19, not that it'll matter to you.

More for r19:

Gary Powell, one of the founders of LGB Alliance, has been paid to speak at Heritage Foundation events.

Maybe Muriel should do something about the anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-lesbian, trans-trumps-everyone posters, R21/22.

Everyone else in the world should not have to change and give up rights in order to accommodate a small percentage of mentally ill people.

More for you, darling r19, and r20 might wanna read these last few posts, too. If it makes you feel any better, r20, I don't think you need to be told to ally yourself with a group that is supported by homophobes, far-right anti-gay fundies, or neo-Nazi, I think you're fully capable of doing it on your own.

The LGB Alliance has refused to denounce it's neo-Nazi and homophobic supporters:

This is a lengthy article I don't think anyone here will read, but the main points are that in the US, the Christian Right has funded the anti-trans movement, and as I showed earlier, UK anti-trans groups have been associated with these US anti-trans groups for years.

[quote]A national coalition of Christian Right powerhouse organizations has been plotting this campaign since long before the concept of a “post-marriage equality moment” even existed. Not merely a response to the Supreme Court’s Obergefell decision on same-sex marriage or Laverne Cox’s celebrity status, this recent wave of anti-trans attacks has deep social, political, and theological roots. Three key groups leading the effort are Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council, and the Alliance Defending Freedom.

[quote]A fourth key player on the frontlines of anti-trans attacks is the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).

*its at r26, not "it's"

Terf is a misogynist term and is often used on gay men to emasculate them. Typical Trans bullshit. Stay away from using that term as it is what Trans and other homophobic groups want.

[...]

R26 sorry, but that doesn't tell me anything. I know one of the founders of LGB Alliance and it's not funded by the Christian right. You can keep saying it all you like, but it is grassroots funded by a lot of people.

Again, there is no "anti-trans" movement. Religious fundies actually PREFER trans over gays and Lesbians. See Iran for an example.

Seriously, is all you have ad hominem attacks? You realize that's a fallacy, and not a valid argument, correct?

[...]

R21 You can be safely ignored. You made the accusation, you prove it. A Medium post is not it.

Why are you so afraid to address the points made about the trans movement? No one ever does, or it's just smokescreens and "look over here" misdirection, or (as you keep repeatedly trying here) "guilt by association".

[quote]Again, there is no "anti-trans" movement.

You said all that at r31 before but with a different account, hon.

Sorry that you think an ad hominem attack is a link to a legitimate news source and in-depth reporting, but you're wrong. That's not what an ad hominem attack is.

They can try to silence the gender-critical movement all they want by claiming it's "funded" (huh?) by the right wing all they want, but that doesn't make it true. No one funds my thoughts. They came from being an intelligent, aware person who cares about women and feminism.

Isn't it interesting that r19 demand I prove what I said, and I did, with multiple links to legitimate news sources, and they suddenly disappeared?

Then R31/R33 shows up saying the exact same things r19 et al. had done, tries to call the proof I provided "ad hominem" (because they hope you're dumb and don't know what ad hominem is), and is now demanding someone else provide proof... proof they already got, but are pretending like they didn't.

[...]

R36 so, no commentary for the issues I addressed? Just gonna continue with the ad hominem attacks?

Your "proof" isn't what you seem to think it is. Have you actually read what you're posting?

It's gotten to the point where you're going to pretend like you don't know what the word "funded" means, to try to defend allying yourself with homophobic, anti-choice far-right organizations? Come the fuck on.

R35 watch, they will not address any of the actual concerns gender critical people have.

Their go-to is to attack and bully people into shutting up. They will not debate. They will not make valid points.

It's because their entire foundation is shaky, and they don't want people examining it too closely.

[quote]no commentary for the issues I addressed?

You didn't post any issues with the account you're using right now, I've double checked. Nothing but falsely claiming I've only posted "ad hominem attacks" and also yelling at someone else for posting a Medium article. That's it.

[...]

R41 the issues posted earlier in the thread. I have an old account on my mobile device and a different one on my home computer. Sorry you're not able to Trolldar me to try to reinforce your ad hominem attacks.

"I posted a lot of links to legitimate news sources but they suddenly vanished. Poof" is as believable as "transwomen are women."

We don't have trolldar. As I've told you repeatedly, however, you have NOT posted any "gender critical issues" under the account you're using now.

Tell me what reply number your sockpuppet account asked these important questions on?

Easier just to block them. They won't address any actual issues, just trying to attack and bully. Someone who thinks they are far more clever than they actually are.

I have no idea who's arguing with whom or what points you're making. This back-and-forth has become pointless.

R39, I'm not pretending anything. I'm telling you that I'm not right wing nor am I allied with the right wing. My thoughts are not colonized by the right wing. And you can keep saying they are until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

r47, I wasn't talking to you in my reply at r39, and I have no idea why you think I was.

[quote]"I posted a lot of links to legitimate news sources but they suddenly vanished. Poof"

Nobody said that they had disappeared. How dumb are you people? The links are right there at r23, r24, r26 and r27.

[...]

I apologize, r47, I was indeed talking to you.

You said

[quote]They can try to silence the gender-critical movement all they want by claiming it's "funded" (huh?) by the right wing all they want

and I was replying to your weird attempt to act like you don't understand what "funded" means.

I don't believe for one minute that you're in denial about who is funding the organizations you support through your trolling (or possibly financially, who even knows), I think you're just like most of the anti-trans trolls on DL, pretending like it's a legitimate position for a liberal or Democrat to have.

The anti-trans movement is allied with far-right fundie Christian and rightwing organizations. They are homophobic and anti woman and anti choice. They are not liberal or Democratic or even centrist.

Play dumb all you want, but that's the truth.

I have no idea if a few right wing people donate to the LGB Alliance.

I'm a left wing, lesbian democrat and I donate to them--and I'm not even British.

[...]

By the way, LGB Alliance was founded and is run by legitimate LESBIANS and GAY MEN (remember those?) who have been fighting for our rights for years--a few of whom started Stonewall (the organization) decades ago.

All of these people have a real track, a real history, and a real demonstrated commitment to gay and lesbian rights than a thousand Twitter transbots with anime cartoons as their photos.

I used to think there was some merit to the "transwomen are just men ashamed by their homosexuality" argument, but most of the transwomen I have met are "lesbians" (i.e. exclusively attracted to women), so I'm not sure I subscribe to that belief anymore. I'm a lez and have only ever had one transwoman try to pressure me to "be more open minded", but she was also seriously inebriated at the time. Most of them are thoroughly decent, respectful people. So, trans I have no problem with--it's the "non-binaries" and "genderqueers" I find to be odious.

A co-worker of mine who is by all accounts an extremely feminine, heterosexual bio-woman, married (monogamously) for 10 years to her high school sweetheart, has recently decided to shake things up by identifying as "genderqueer" and using they/them pronouns. She's absolutely insufferable about it. The only thing that's even changed about her is she'll now occasionally style her hair into a faux hawk and has begun referring to her husband as her "partner". She's decided she and I are the same now and blathers endlessly about the oppression she endures by being "misgendered". She's even taken to calling herself gay sometimes, which makes no goddamn sense at all and fucking infuriates me. It's LGB appropriation is what it is.

I can't help feeling Jordan's definition of violence is a tad too broad

[...]

[quote]All of these people have a real track, a real history, and a real demonstrated commitment to gay and lesbian rights

So why is one of the founders in bed with the Heritage Foundation?

Why did the LGB Alliance write more than one anti-gay-marriage tweet?

Why do they take money from anti-gay, neo-Nazi, far-right individuals and organizations?

Why won't they release their financials?

If anti-trans is completely separate from homophobia, then why are all so many of the latest anti-trans bills that have been introduced almost identical copies of the bills the homophobic Alliance Defending Freedom have written in the past?

Why does the LGB Alliance retweet and promote content from the Alliance Defending Freedom, and other organizations that support conversion therapy for gays?

Why does none of that matter to you, Little Miss Lesbian?

A Hate Group Is Reportedly Behind 2021’s Dangerous Wave of Anti-Trans Bills

Alliance Defending Freedom, America’s largest anti-LGBTQ+ group, has fought to sterilize trans people and criminalize gay sex.

[quote]Over the last 28 years, the ADF has defended laws prohibiting same-sex intimacy; opposed marriage, adoption, and surrogacy for same-sex couples; attacked LGBTQ non-discrimination laws, as well as bans on conversion therapy for minors; argued in favor of laws that require transgender people to undergo sterilization before legally changing their gender; challenged access to contraception; and supported the criminalization of abortion at any stage of pregnancy. Its work stretches beyond the United States; ADF has, for instance, championed Belize’s archaic anti-sodomy law, which allows for the persecution and imprisonment of gay people. The ADF’s overarching position on gay people is that they should either be converted to heterosexuality or fired from their jobs and imprisoned because of their sexual orientation.

[quote]Nothing to see here.

[quote]Just LGB Alliance sharing an article written by the ADF.

[quote]A leading activist involved with the launch of the ‘anti-trans’ pressure group LGB Alliance, Gary Powell, slammed Supreme Court judge Lady Hale for supporting a woman who was left infertile by NHS negligence.

[quote]...Powell, a long-time campaigner against surrogacy, was at the pre-launch event for LGB Alliance where “all members had agreed a foundation statement which prioritised biological sex over gender theories which they regard as ‘pseudo-scientific and dangerous'”, according to The Telegraph.

[quote]...As well as his views on “aggressive gender extremists”, Powell’s view is that surrogacy is a “human rights violation similar to the sale of human organs” and “an unacceptable LGBT+ rights objective”.

[quote]Through his work opposing surrogacy, Gary Powell has ties with religious, right-wing organisations in the US that oppose equal marriage and access to abortion – despite the LGB Alliance regularly claiming not to be connected in any way to the US religious right.

[quote]... Powell is the European special consultant for California-based nonprofit the Center for Bioethics and Culture Network (CBC).

[quote]CBC is a US organisation that frequently appears at conferences and events held by right-wing groups discussing restricting abortion rights.

---

[quote]On May 6 last year, Powell spoke on a panel at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative, anti-abortion think-tank in the US that opposes same-sex marriage.

---

[quote]The CBC and the ADF are both part of a network set up by Novae Terrae, a foundation that lobbies against abortion and same-sex marriage and connects right-wing groups internationally.

[quote]In 2017, a Guardian investigation found that Novae Terrae received over two million dollars in laundered money from Azerbaijan – via shell companies set up to obscure the source of the funds – to “peddle political influence throughout Europe”.

[quote]As well as his work for CBC, Powell writes for Public Discourse, the journal of the Witherspoon Institute – another conservative US thinktank that opposes abortion and same-sex marriage.

[quote]On its website, Public Discourse states that: “The second pillar of a decent society is the institution of the family, which is built upon the comprehensive sexual union of man and woman.”

So just remember, kids, that Gary Powell, one of the "legitimate GAY MEN (remember those?) who have been fighting for our rights for years" who founded LGB Alliance, is paid by numerous anti-women, anti-choice, homophobic, far-right groups, at least one of which is funded by laundered money.

I'm sure someone will come along and say "well, I have an insufferable coworker, so that's why I give money to a group that funds a guy who is paid in laundered money through Azerbaijan by homophobic political groups" and think they've won the argument, but... no.

I think the person arguing with me about right-wing funding, about which I'm now supposedly "playing dumb," is the same person who can't stop beating that drum in every trans-related thread. The argument begins and ends with "Anti-trans is a right-wing movement, so if you don't agree with me, you're a right-winger! Why won't you submit to my shaming?"

Dude, you are very tiresome. Just because you don't travel in circles in which left-wing people are skeptical about the social contagion of the trans movement doesn't mean we don't exist. It's erasure! Literal violence! We exist and we will not be marginalized and silenced! Etc.!! You know the drill.

I've had a different experience than R55's--all the transwomen I know--from being involved with my local pride center--are ex-gay men (or whatever) who are now STRONG BLACK TRANSWOMEN (but also, sex workers) who insist that all community resources be directed towards trans things.

These are not typically the people you would worry about sexually assaulting women in prison or shelters (because they're not interested in women or our issues at all).

R66 So all that means is that, like bio women, some like men, some like women, some like both, and some like neither. But as long as there appears to be plenty of transwomen very much attracted to women, the argument that "all transwomen are just self-loathing gay men" doesn't hold much weight. What it does mean is that transwomen can't just automatically shake a lifetime of male entitlement when they decide to transition.

All you right wring anti-trans trolls are forgetting that you wouldn’t even have any rights if it weren’t for transwomxn of color. Show some gratitude, cunts. But no, you FERFs want to side with right wing funded agendas. Do better!

R65 LITERAL VIOLENCE!

It's funny how the trans rights activists in this thread can't argue any of the problems gender critical people have with the current wave of trans activism. The only thing they have is attacks and bullying.

If you'd like to donate to the LGB Alliance, as I am doing right now, here's the link.

There's also an American branch. And Canadian. And in several other countries, all fighting for the rights of Lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals.

Sure, donate to wright wing organizations. What you TERQs don’t realize is that your contributing to your own demise. Stupid, stupid gays. You deserve the literal violence cumming your way. How would you like it if people misorientate you? So problematic and so dumb.

r72 "misorientate" is not a word you will find in any dictionary. Or are dictionaries right wing too?

Actually I think r72 is making fun of the trans rights activists in this thread.

anyone who has good mental health will not care if they are called the opposite sex. Call me dude, man, whatever. Who cares?

Yes, any dictionary’s that censures misorientation is right wing. More so if they also censor TURF, cis, Queergender, emby, problematic, literal violence, and xir. Dictionary’s have to do better.

[quote]Transgenderism, as a movement, has experienced a rapid rise compared to any other civil rights movement....

[quote]By contrast, other civil rights movements have not enjoyed such a rapid rise. Women, oppressed since the creation of private property, have endured patriarchy for thousands of years. It took a hundred years for the United States to abolish slavery, and another hundred to abolish segregation. It seems it will take another hundred for people to abolish what Colin Kaepernick kneels over. Homosexuals have been increasingly marginalized in Western society since late antiquity and after the Stonewall riots and the collective awakening in the 60s and 70s, have waged a 50-year long fight for equal rights — one that has not yet been won, as homosexuals have no federal civil rights protections. Yet transgenderism, a term itself coined barely twenty years ago, and included in ‘LGBT’ since only the mid-90s has money to burn and victories seem to come easily .

[quote]Does this add up to you? I can’t remember everyone boycotting Missouri over Ferguson. All I can think of is possibly the revocation of Super Bowl XXVII in Arizona over Martin Luther King Day. Hell, no celebrity is refusing to play states that are attempting to criminalize abortion. How are transgender people the most oppressed minority in America, again? Why the sudden focus on this issue? I decided to find out, and doing that in modern America requires following the money.

Originally published in 2018, it’s a long article but worth the read.

[quote] All you right wring anti-trans trolls are forgetting that you wouldn’t even have any rights if it weren’t for transwomxn of color.

Give us a break with this horseshit.

We got our right to marry because a tiny, elderly white lesbian sued to inherit her lfelong partner's estate--until she made it to the Supreme Court. She and her gay and lesbian lawyers are why we got our rights.

Black transwxmen have done nothing that actually accomplished anything--as per usual.

It's not a stretch to think that right-wing groups are involved in this, but you can't be wise to that yet be blind to the fact that there is a lot of genuine left-wing opposition. As an earlier poster said, much of the opposition in the UK is from the left and probably would be in the US as well if American women still weren't fighting battles over reproductive rights that are effectively over in the UK. It's not a purely right-wing conspiracy.

This division isn't just coming from backroom funding deals with conservative groups - the mainstream LGBT rights movement is keeping this divisive issue going for their own purposes. There is a lot of opposition to self-ID from the left and keeping the debate going keeps the money rolling in. Drop self-ID and most of the opposition from the left would evaporate.

[...]

[quote]Stupid, stupid gays. You deserve the literal violence cumming your way.

This is an odd thing to post on a gay forum. Thank goodness for the block feature.

This is the kind of language that children resort to when they don't get their way.

R81 = TERG (Trans Exclusive Radical Gay). Words wound. Your word are literally violent.

[...]

[quote]Dictionary’s have to do better.

Girl, get yourself together, damn.

R81, they're trolling. Their posts on other threads are normal, but over here it's poorly spelled threats with faux "woke" language. Very obviously an anti-trans troll trying to make the other side look bad. FF and ignore.

[quote]If you'd like to donate to the LGB Alliance, as I am doing right now

They're a homophobic hate group. I don't believe for a second any of you are actually donating to it right now as some kind of "fuck you" to the proof that your beloved group is a money-laundering front for a homophobic right-wing org anyway, I suspect begging for donations and making threats is an attempt to get this thread deleted. All the links about how LGB Alliance is a rightwing homophobic organization make you look bad, and you can't FF a thread and get it automatically deleted anymore like you used to.

I cannot imagine buying into a conspiracy that the real danger to you is not the far right but a handful of trans who might, maybe, possibly, one day go into a bathroom at Walmart when you're in there. Or thinking that a kid in another country that you'll never even go to might get hormones when they're 15 is a bigger danger to you than the Republicans you're in bed with.

It's insanity. You guys are Q loons but without the charm.

[...]

[quote]much of the opposition in the UK is from the left and probably would be in the US as well if American women still weren't fighting battles over reproductive rights that are effectively over in the UK

One of the founders of LGB Alliance is against women having reproductive rights you fucking moron! He's anti abortion and anti surrogacy and he takes money from the Heritage Foundation to make speeches about how women don't deserve these rights!

We have the same nutjob women in the US as you guys, they're the "I'm liberal but I'm anti abortion so I vote for Republicans like Trump" idiots. You're just a version of that.

[...]

[...]

You guys are so transparent.

You can keep posting death threats to get this thread deleted but I copied all the links in this thread already and the person who originally posted them surely has them, too. I'm going to make it my mission to post those links and more in every anti trans thread you assholes start. FF me a bunch and I'll pay another two bucks for a new account and do it again, and email Muriel about it every time I do, until he gets so irritated with the whole thing he finally deals with you trolls.

[...]

[...]

[...]

[...]

[...]

Are you Matt Anscher or just pretending to be Matt? Either way, go ahead anti-trans troll, freak out, burst a vein, get angry and make more death threats against all gays, it makes you look even more sane than you did before, so you should definitely keep doing it.

[...]

[...]

[...]

[...]

That's a good question r97, I wouldn't have thought the guy who said "The whole idea of biological sex is nothing more than a Trumpian fantasy and a relic of the disco era" would be Matt, but whoever it is, they're doing a good job of emulating him having one of his infamous breakdowns.

It does call into question whether he really is having a mental break when he does this stuff, or if he does it on purpose, knowing he'll get threads deleted. All those threads he spammed with racist slurs like "cracker chink" were deleted.

[...]

[...]

I’m gladly and rationally a TERF. T’s can take their War on Women and Erasure of Women and sit and spin on it. Drop the T from LGB.

Such language, R105!

[...]

Let me summarize the trans activist troll line, repeated endlessly in this thread: ALL GROUPS THAT SAY ANYTHING AGAINST the ridiculous ongoing demands from trans activists are hate groups, right-wing, Christian fundamentalists, Satan's minions, homophobes, transphobes, white supremacists, Neo-Nazis, and want to send women back to the kitchen to have babies and make flan.

Thanks. We get it. Do you have any commentary on self-id? On pronouns - which can change daily or be whatever you want because they're both totally meaningless AND totally important or trans / nonbinaries will kill themselves - being forced speech? Or on the bullying that occurs and the easy tossing around of "anti-trans" and "transphobic" against people who are not either of those things?