Can someone be permanently depressed?

I don't believe in psychiatric drugs unless the patient really needs it. Take CBD or smoke pot, exercise, eat a decent diet and sleep. That solves most of the chemical imbalance. Then do talk therapy to work through the rest or find some other form of therapy

In the Middle Ages these depressed people were thought to have a melancholic humor.

In a word, yes.

R2 Disagree strongly with your first line. Having being there, people really do need medical drugs for depression. They helped me.

R4 was meant for R1

OP, if your friend has exhausted all options, they may benefit from something like san pedro cactus.

Interesting R2

R7 The other humors were choleric, sanguine and bilious. You were what you were.

Answer: YES

There's also the fact that meds don't work on 20-30% of people. Your friend should work with a psychiatrist to figure out if some other meds used "off label" might work or for the doc to help come up with a mental system of "tricks" to get thru the day.

I've said it in other threads, but I think a portion of people who do not respond to SSRIs would respond to the older MAOIs -- which doctors rarely prescribe anymore.

MAOIs are especially useful for treating depression with atypical features. Some of those features include: increased sensitivity to interpersonal rejection, increased eating, increased sleeping, greater mood reactivity (mood is lifted temporarily in response to positive events), and a mood that is generally better in the morning and grows worse as the day progresses.

[quote]I don't believe in psychiatric drugs unless the patient really needs it. Take CBD or smoke pot, exercise, eat a decent diet and sleep. That solves most of the chemical imbalance.

Fuck you! You sound like a $cio.

[quote]Fuck you! You sound like a $cio.

Yep, R11. People who talk like that fail to acknowledge the brain is part of the human body and is subject to all sorts of "defects" that isn't just some "imbalance" like low windshield wiper fluid.

They might as well be saying, "You have Down Syndrome? Oh, well just do a juice cleanse once a month that should clear right up." Fucking psychos.

Yes. And it seems to get worse the older you get. It is taking everything for me not to just end it all, I'm so tired of living this way.

I hear ya, r13

R13 and R14 I have the same thing, my whole life just about. So shut up bitches. If there’s things you haven’t tried, try them.

Electro shock therapy. Bite this rubber thing.

I've been depressed my whole life. Part of it is genetic but it is also so many things have gone wrong over which I had no control. I come from a terribly emotionally abusive family, I was bullied by my peers and I was rejected in gay life. I can't work because it causes me horrible anxiety and I spend my time on many drugs which rids me of me of my anxiety and though I still get depressed and very angry it isn't nearly as bad as before. My fear is that something will happen in the world so that I won't have access to drugs. You need also to have positive feedback and love in life. I've had neither so my life has been pointless. Just fear and exhaustion. No solution to that. In other words in some peoples lives there is nothing you can do. People believe there's a panacea for everything emotional but it is simply not true. Just because some people have success it does not mean everyone will. Just like physical diseases. If one is going to kill you no matter how you fight it it will still kill you. There is not a solution to everything.

[quote] Yes. And it seems to get worse the older you get. It is taking everything for me not to just end it all, I'm so tired of living this way.

I'm the same way. I'm so glad that I only have probably 30 yrs left to live

Life is shitty. People are horrible and getting more horrible by the day

short answer: Yes.

Having said that, all humans here and there will go through depressive cycles. some harder than others.

depression doesn't need to be a bad thing. it serves in situations where big changes happen in life. rather than speeding along, depression serves as to pull back into your shell and ponder about what is happening (vs. aggression, where you go into the mode of "fighting" the "outside world")

nevertheless, it has been researched that there are a significant amount of people that are not able to push through the inward (depressive) cycle and remain in their shells.

having myself been through some very dark cycles, I have experience with antidepressives and am happy that I only did it for a year. I can't say if it helped, because the moment that I "returned" to life I had some very serious challenges facing me (lost my relationship, my job and then my living quarters).

can't say if it was the meds or facing survival that brought me into action, but the rollercoaster in getting the meds adjusted (especially when gradually decreasing the doses to cede the therapy), combined with a non existant libido (couldn't get a hard on for over a year), I will not make that decision again

r17 I sincerely hope that you have professional help supporting you? I am reading a lot of darkness :( did it get worse during COVID?

People can be /are diabetic for life, so why not depressed?

I'm in the weird area where I don't want to kill myself or die, but I cannot fathom another moment being conscious (awake) and feeling like this.

r17 positive feedback and love you also can try to nourish yourself, one thing that I learned during numerous therapeutic sessions (and clinic stays) is that I was the one bashing myself the most :/

it was only when I reflected with other people my dark thoughts, that I realized that I was the one viewing this shitty self destructive image, which no one on the outside saw.

I tried via work and love to get the lack of affection and acknowledgement, just to realize that this need for compensation led me into a burn out and loss of relationship. hitting rock bottom, I tried to start accepting myself. and indeed, self acceptance was the first step into a different direction for me.

it also made me realize that there are leechers that feed on this need for affection, predominantly in people who self loath themselves.

ever I cut those people out, I am doing better :)

r22 do you have professional help? it can flip quickly (experience talking)

I have had much professional help in my life and in my case its purpose was venting. What can even a therapist say? Yes it did get worse simply because I couldn't go at least to the gym. The excitement in my life has always been grocery shopping. I am not kidding. Yes indeed pathetic. After I am fully vaccinated I will go back to the gym.

R23 I am glad you are doing better.

Yes. For some people, there is a happiness homeostasis which means they return to a specific depression level regardless of intervention.

r25 I hope you do not gt this the wrong way (fearnoevilmonkey), I detest grocery shopping, so I commend you to find joy in that, really in all honesty :)

I am glad you are going to hit the gym again. as yu know, it is a natural/physically antidepressant. I think without sports, I would not be here anymore, hand to my heart.

yes I am better, but I am referencing to the very dark days where (according to my friends), dark actions where imminent.

I know I will have to struggle with my psych for my whole life. whilst I no longer regularly am in therapy, I hope to know the signals where I need to trigger the professionals.

I know that a) they can not fix me and b) most importantly, I need to be vigilant as to the professional advice (luckily I have been reading up on psychology from the age of 12 -- maybe already sensing something wrong -- but also -- especially -- that I even challenged professionals in their choices, whilst going through the worst phases -- literally I would only get out of house for said sessions and was actually surprised as to how hard I fought back against advice I myself deemed inappropriate..... then head off home to go and sleep for another week)

maybe this can be an advice that you can relate to and bank on: one step/day at a time. I know it sounds cheezy, but for me it helped once I put the complex depression situation out of the way and just took one task at a time. the tasks/challenges started to become more manageable (mind you, diagnosed with ADHS, task management has helped a lot to not wander all over the place and/or people)

OP it is entirely possible. Long term depression is called dysthymia. Depression like diabetes is a disorder that requires tailored treatment. Some drugs that work for others may not work for your friend. Unfortunately, during my psychi rotation i have seen that your average therapist give the patient a standard SSRI or TCA and call it a day. The key is to help them find the right therapist who can determine the right combination of drugs and approach to therapy required for your friend. If you want to help, you could by researching therapists and ofcourse by being there for them.

most importantly, if the therapy doesn't seem right, change it. even if it means changing doctors. it's always good to have 2nd, 3rd, 4th, multiple opinions. with mental disorders, trust, understanding and connection is key in humans, including doctors. I have seen a lot of therapeutic measures gone wrong, just because said human connection wasn't there (speaking on the same level to one another)

I have been depressed, to a greater or lesser degree, since adolescence.

I have bipolar disorder. Even when manic/hypomanic, there is an undercurrent of depression.

Maybe they have a mild mineral deficiency or some other underlying undiagnosed issue. If traditional medicine hasn’t helped after this long I would look into finding a reputable alternative for instance acupuncture or osteopathic medicine.

OP it's very important to know, that as a non proffessional (I assume you are), there is not much you can do. a lot of supporting members (family and friends) tend to try take on responsibilities for which they lack the knowledge. often it does more harm than good, it is important that the individual knows that you understand but do not put pressure on them (as: "get a grip", "it isn#t that bad", why are you not cooperating" etc.)

support them with your warmth, medical decisions should happen via professionals and patients.

Traditional “let’s talk about your past and what makes you feel this way” therapy is just expensive venting. You need “cognitive therapy.”

magic mushrooms,lsd and ketamine are being explored again (after the medical research had been shut down during the Nixon years. the results are interesting. @OP, maybe your friend should find doctors open to this path.

r33 there is no rolls royce in therapeutic measures, it should be tailored to the patients needs, behaviours and boundaries

OP I think it is dangerous to get such information from such boards. I am sure that many doctors faint when seeing the naiv "bad advices" on forums across the board. I strongly encourage to talking to professionals in their respective fields. during COVID we have seen what misinformation can do :(

Yes, ECT works well for those who do not respond to medical forms of treatment. You should try that.

r33 not always. Person-centered, Rogerian therapy more or less saved my life

R35 Very true - cool thing is, I didn’t say that!

intravenous ketamine therapy

r39 quote: " You need “cognitive therapy.” ?

ECT (electro shock) has come a long ways, tends to be used as a lot resort.

but one needs to purge the horror asylum movies depictions of this method.

there are a lot of doctors that prefer using magic mushrooms, lsd and ketamine, before resorting to ECT (had numerous discussions).

but as long as these are not approved procedures (pharma and co obviously not keen to lose their grand existing medication orders), their hands are tied (apart from some small clinical trials)

I know from a head nurse for Kaiser in San Francisco, that they use ketamine for accute (especially suicidal) severe depressive patints, in order to "snap them out" of the acute downward spiral of negative thoughts. magic mushrooms are said to have a similar effect, ECT was also tried for the same reasons (as faar as I know, with a lesser success rate)

This is probably a silly question: is it possible to be depressed but think it’s the normal? Meaning you think you are not depressed.

r1. Are you Tom Cruise? If you have chronic depression take something for it. I don't think exercising and pot smoking does it. No pyscholical drugs but recreational drugs are fine. That is medicating the problem, why not use the drug meant for it. Makes no sense.

Yes, r45

As Sarah Kane once wrote, "What I sometimes mistake for ecstasy is simply the absence of grief."

OP please, seek the right persons, I hope you see that this thread is full of amateurs (not professionally trained).

regardless if official or alternative medicine, there are quite some "bad advice doctor" statements here

Shrinks kill depressive people.

R8 well, I’m a phlegmatic with a tendency to depression, so what are you gonna do about that?

r50 IMO, what are you going to do about that? regardless of mental issues, there is a part that you will want to stir/decide (do you want to stay in your current mind, or do you want to change it?

There is promising research on the use of targeted magnetic stimulation to treat severe depression. In this study, 90% of patients showed an improvement.

[quote]Stanford researchers devise treatment that relieved depression in 90% of participants in small study.

Yes, definitely.

I think it takes a combination of many things mentioned on this thread, and not necessarily the same combination for everyone because people are different.

Some people just have a more depressive disposition...you are born with a personality (at least to some extent) and certain attitudes are ingrained in who you are. Of course, any difficulties may exacerbate those tendencies.

Anyone who has watched two different people respond to the same problem differently knows that some people have a harder time than others and the variable is who the person is.

[quote] The excitement in my life has always been grocery shopping.

Me too. I don't know why. I used to have a job traveling all over and my real excitement was checking out the supermarkets in other towns/cities. Just to see what types of things they carried that my local stores didn't

It's funny that so many comments here start with "I" and continue with "everybody." That's the problem: you think what worked for you is universally valid. I've researched this topic for decades and have come to the tentative opinion that depression is partly genetic and triggered by environment--but of course your "environment" included parents/siblings with the same genetic characteristics. Kids in homes with one or more depressive parents end up neglected, anxious, etc. Depressives resort to substances, so there's that as well. If you go on message boards the number of posters who were helped by putting legal substances in their bodies (most of them discredited after a decade or two of hype and over-prescription) is very small. I was helped by trauma-education and cognitive-behavioral stuff, but I would never recommend it because I'm not you. I've lived 6 decades afflicted by depression and it is not fun. It cripples one in many areas of life. But life is always worth it because the alternative is unknown.

And, yes, R45, depression feels normal to me because I've rarely been without it. The one or two periods when I was NOT depressed were magical.

Absolutely yes R56. The few moments literally in my life when I was not depressed feeling that everything was against me the world were so magical I was in disbelief.

meditation and yoga helps. there are studies that show that prayer (which in itself has some anecdotes of meditation/mindfulness) helps in depression

Prayer has never worked for me personally but I have seen it in others as a calming form of meditation.

I wish to God I had never touched antidepressants. The reward system in my brain is now fucked to the point that I can't enjoy anything. I never wanted to take them, I was pressured into it by my parents when I was a teenager.

Dysthymia - constant, low lying depression. The good thing is it is not as severe or sudden as other forms of depression and less likely to lead to suicide - the bad thing is you live with it your entire life. But I’ve learned to adapt and see the value in it - at least I always view life realistically.

Teens shouldn’t be railroaded into drugs or surgery unless unavoidably necessary imo.

And I really empathise with R60. At 16 I was given an evil untested and wrongfully marketed birth-control pill, that essentially did some crazy stuff to my brain and my liver function, culminating in years of dysthymia. Though I came through the worst of it, I had a few years of such deep darkness that I considered suicide—absurd, considering my general health and upbringing up to that point. It’s been about twelve years since, and though I’m technically ‘recovered’ from the worst obvious effects, a general difficulty with emotional regulation and a ‘broken’ set of drives have lingered on. And I still have nightmares about it all.

Depression causes negative thinking but baseline negative beliefs cause it too.

I can't look down on drug addicts. I'm one myself. The only difference is mine are legal.

R1 is the perfect opinion because its both right and wrong.

Diet and exercise are huge. As are certain vitamins. I know that fish oil and Vitamin B make a huge difference in the way I feel and my energy levels. (Ignore studies that show vitamins are worthless--they usually just look at longevity).

Some people do have messed up brain chemistry and a lot of them benefit from anti-depressants. Either you feel better or you dont. They can take 4-6 weeks to make a difference and eventually they lose their potency.

Anyone with long term depression should at least dabble in some alternatives. MDMA at regular intervals (4-6x per year). Psychedelics as well. If they have money, ketamine injections every 5 weeks have amazing benefits for people's brain chemistry.

Many people think microdosing hallucinogens like LSD or shrooms help. We are so far behind on studying this stuff. But I know one psychiatrist who thinks the studies are suggesting one solid "trip" every 4-6 weeks shows more benefit for depressed people than tiny amounts every three days. Which is what we already know about ketamine. And ketamine injections are now avail from specific doctors in most major U.S. cities.

Yes. I think I have been depressed my whole life. I also think with me it is genetics. Sadly, society is not friendly minded towards the sensitive and depressed. If I could work part time I'd gladly do that so I can focus on getting healthy. But that is not possible, not because of financial reasons. I could easily survive with less money. But in research there is not such a thing as part time. It is an all or nothing kind of business. So I work even though I am dying a slow death because I don't have the time to focus on my mental health. I have tried to apply for other jobs but keep getting rejected because I am either too over qualified or I don't have experience working as for example a gardener. Terrible. Seriously, I don't see myself becoming old.

OP? Are we talking about your mother?

R66 - with so much online these days, couldn't you do projects on a freelance basis and focus more on taking care of yourself? I was having this conversation with my roommate tonight and she was saying when her year project as a writer and analyst ends, she may stick around here in Eastern Europe or go to a cheaper state than California and focus on her mental and physical health.

r66 word! snap out of the capitalistic, digital life. spend time in nature, connect with people in person.

R69 - connect with people and be part of life is a huge draw. But the pandemic has made that impossible pretty much. When normal life resumes (assuming it does to some extent and we can be safer), that is what I want to do.

You obviously need a good bleeding. The line forms at the rear. Next...

R68 I wish I could but my work being academia it is 50% lab work and 50% data analysis. I'd stop today if I could get any part-time job tomorrow.

R66 I too have been depressed all my life but I have to tell you, I too once thought that I wouldn't get old... I always figured when I was 30 I'd never get to 60. And yet here I am, at 71, still depressed, and realizing that since, other than depression, I'm in good health, I could be around for another 20 or 25 years.

Now that's depressing.

So true, R23, and R73 you should read his post. Self-love for me started when I eliminated all my relationships with haters. frenemies, abusive family, and people who want to self-loath along with you. It's true I have almost no 'friends,' now, but I have myself and now know what my strengths and qualities are, along with flaws. Hope that helps. Even at 71 (I'm 68), you can love yourself. Read up on cog/beh techniques and use them. At first they feel like tricks, but they MAY help you. I still get down but nip it in the bud. Love yourself. You deserve it.

r73 I can't imagine growing very old. For me that would be too lonely. The only family I have is my mother. I don't socialize very well so I don't have close friends. If I become old I will be very lonely and even more depressed. When my mom is gone I think I'll just kill myself with some penicillin I have kept that I am allergic to.

"MAOIs are especially useful for treating depression with atypical features. Some of those features include: increased sensitivity to interpersonal rejection, increased eating, increased sleeping, greater mood reactivity (mood is lifted temporarily in response to positive events), and a mood that is generally better in the morning and grows worse as the day progresses. "

Wow that sounds like me - though I've never sought help. The positive to negative as the day progresses, and reaction to positive events - always. Really it's all applicable.

ECT just disrupts your brain enough to quiet the depression and fuck up your electrical system. It serves no true therapeutic purpose.

YES!

R72 - maybe an analyst job. Lots of huge companies are hiring online now. This last year was hard. I too struggled with depression and anxiety which came to a peak in 2016. I finally decided to accept a stint nobody in my company wanted in Eastern Europe. Just getting out of the routine, getting busy acclimating to a new place and culture and being forced outside and to interact in a new way was great for me. Now I am here again, and staying in for a year had me depressed and now that there is less online work and I al getting out more the depression is slightly lifting. I hope you manage to find a way out. Try to go out more, minor and safe interaction with even as little as a barista and a stroll in a nice park can help. Take care!