The Handmaid's Tale - When are they going to end this shit already?

I cannot watch it because she is .....distracting. Not in a good way.

When they captured June (AGAIN!) at the end of Episode 2, I told my partner: "Of course, she had to be captured. How else is she going to turn into the Superwoman or the Flying Nun over the next couple of episodes."

It was Hulu’s first prestige award winning series the same way HOC was for Netflix, it is hard for them to let go of them because it means the end of an era.

They need to wrap it up by at most one more season. Season 5 better be the last or they are truly dragging this out. If the series endgame is the take down Gilead they need to get to it.

Surely June will be captured and tortured three or four more times before they start the endgame. The show doesn’t seem to be aware of the extreme repetition and implausibility that every one else sees.

There was an article this week which compared it to the TV series version of Planet of the Apes and how each week one of the three leads would get captured and freed by the other two and burned itself out after six episodes.

Why do they torture, hang, shoot, gouge out eyes and push girls off buildings but, somehow June who is now the known antagonist continues to stay alive and is passed around from site to site like a bread recipe, knowing she'll keep escaping or creating issues?

Elizabeth Moss has taken total control of the series and must, MUST make it ALL about her. After all the success, she's still so thirsty for all the attention.

R7 With all the trouble June causes I've always wondered why nothing much happens to June when girls get maimed or killed for far less. Oh yeah shes got strong plot armour.

I stopped watching this show after season 2. God, that season was insufferable. Yvonne Strahovski was the only glimmering light. And I'm a huge Atwood fan and loved the book twenty five years ago. They took something that could have been really relevant in the current political climate and made it ridiculous.

June, among her many attributes, obviously can stay well fed while on the lam.

[quote]When are they going to end this shit already?

Pitter patter.

R10 They slaughtered a pig for her, and then did a little Christina Crawford scene with Janine.

When they hiked June up on that gurney for torture her belly was so big

Serena is pregnant they better turn her into a handmaid too

The Canada stuff and the relationship between Fred and Serena is 10 times more interesting than Elizabeth Moss and ego trip and Superwoman Vagina trip.

Is the actor who plays June’s husband gay? His character comes off as very gay.

O.T. Fagbenle who plays Luke, June's husband, is very attractive.

Never watched this. Every promotional image looks so off-putting, Elizabeth Moss and her sour puss.

In the book doesn't Gilead last for something like 80 years? I doubt the end of the series will be the end of Gilead.

And Moss looks fat in the first 3 episodes.

I'm hate watching it at this point. The ugly, hateful, furied consumed looks on June's face all the time make me want to shoot it off. She does nothing to help herself in any situation she's in. I hate her.

Agree with the poster that said that the Canada situation is much more interesting. They need to get onto invading Gilead as soon as possible. That's the next logical step in the series. Invade, destroy and liberate then punishment. They could draw it out for 2 more seasons with that. But please no more capture > torture > deaths of others > June escapes and looks furiously hateful. Enough!

This is the look I'm talking about...

[quote]Is the actor who plays June’s husband gay? His character comes off as very gay

Well, he's British ;~)

I'm more familiar with the intricacies of Elizabeth's face than I am of some longtime friends, lovers and family members.

The girl does love her close-ups.

There’s supposed to be some real action/pay-off coming up. I agree the bitch can never be caught again and allowed to live not believable!!! She’s also at geriatric maternal age already.

So, is there some plan to keep it in line and match up to The Testaments? If so knowing June, Lydia, Hannah and Nicole can’t die does that lessen anything that can happen on the show?

The episode in the candy factory was good, but I don't like the chemistry between Fred and Ethel.

I saw an ad for it last night & was stunned it was still on tv. As if Aunt Lydia wouldn’t have had that rebellious Elizabeth Moss killed by now. How many times has Moss tried to escape or otherwise caused trouble? Everybody else gets executed in a heartbeat.

I didn't like Season 3 as much as the other seasons, but I did get chill bumps in the last few minutes, where June is lying in the forest bleeding, and the plane can be heard and then seen taking off in the sky above her.

Now, in Season 4,...all in a single episode, escapee June gets captured from a farm and is tortured for days. Then, by the end of the episode, she escapes AGAIN? Aunt Lydia just got lectured about the wayward handmaids in her charge.; she's gonna get it now. But why would they drive multiple-escapee, multiple-murderer, June around town with just one aunt and a single guard/driver as her escort? These are some idiots.

I was sad to see the two handmaids get run over by the train. June's now lost her closest friends, and her daughter is afraid of her. She has nothing left to lose in Gilead. Let's get on with the war, then.

I think the action is really picking up, although June getting caught *again* is a real eye-roller. But remember though, Gilead does not kill handmaids. That's why at the end of episode 3 Aunt Lydia was flipping out at the driver at the train crossing.

Gilead really lasted 80 years in the book? Wow. That means by the downfall, the would be no "originals" left, people who were there st thr beginning and before. Crazy. The regime would be really ingrained by then.

The level of action needs to stay sustained; that first half of season 3 was a snooze, then the last couple episodes were filled with big changes.

Now I'm glad I only watched the first season. I had the feeling I wouldn't want to see what they did beyond that.

I don't watch lesbian shows.

Is Elizabeth Moss the show runner or just very influential in the production team? Every promo image is her and only her. As everyone else has noticed, the constant staring, menacing-June shots and photos are becoming laughable at this point, almost parody level.

I saw Moss on some morning show last week and was half paying attention, but she made some quip about how she used to be young when working with Bradley Whitford on West Wing, and the reporter asked her if she and he ever talk about their old series together. Moss replied that their relationship is the same as it was only “I’m his boss now”. Wow. I thought it sounded kind of bitchy. So I suppose she is running things on that show.

I’m starting to feel sorry Fred Armisen. Can you imagine living with that level of megalomania?

Catnip for the neurotic. An industry. Real repercussions for civilization.

I was hoping that this would be the last season. Im ready for a satisfying revenge payoff for enduring the many gratuitous torture porn scenes that we’ve witnessed the past three seasons and in the early episodes of this one. They really need to land this plane already.

I went out and looked at the reviews of this season and the disdain seems universal. Everyone is calling it torture porn. They really fucked this show up.

It's always been torture porn. From the first episode. The unbelievable part comes from the fact that there is no way in hell they would have kept June around. They would have hung her on the wall by now as a symbol. But this idea that they keep her around for breeding is absurd. She is more trouble than that. They would have killed her long ago. Look at the way they pushed those woman off the roof in episode 3. She's so valuable as a woman they are going to keep her around? Its pure nonsense that June is still alive.

I completely agree, r36, but were the two women they pushed off the roof Marthas? That might better explain why they were considered so easily expendable.

I dont think so. They were young. They were handmaids.

I wanted to like this show. I read the book years ago after being given it as a gift. I expected to hate it, but loved it. In the book the protagonist is very ordinary and rather passive. This makes the story powerful because it confronts readers with the question of how passive we would be in the face of totalitarianism.

June Osborne: Unkillable Action Hero isn't nearly as compelling

R39. The series and the book only cover the first season. After that its the creators of the show who fucked it up. Thats whats so makes it all so crazy.

R36 and R37 They killed off poor Eden, even though she was young and breedable.

That's when I gave up completely btw. It just got too ridiculous, that any other woman can die but June.

Martha’s can be young and they DO kill handmaids. Even if the ones on the roof were Marthas, they still were about to at least kill Janine before

It’s a shame to see a great show sully its own legacy like that for the sake of commerce.

After the first 2 series I just couldn't face any more time in Gilead.

The first two series were good enough but it needed to be wrapped up with the overthrow of Gilead, a return to democracy and a justice and reconciliation and reunification theme.

I read somewhere the women who were pushed off the roof were Commander Joseph Lawrence’s Marthas, Beth and Sienna.

Uh, they were his Marthas. Did you watch last season?

June reminds me of the family in Fear the Walking Dead. Anywhere they went they caused chaos and the deaths of countless innocent people. If June believed they'd kill her daughter, why run away again???

"You've escaped from our household dozens and dozens of times, Offred! But we're STILL going to bring you back and give you just one more last chance!! We think you've really learned your lesson this time!"

R48, It is probably because she is so naturally beautiful.

They sent Emily and Janine to The Colonies as punishment so they do indeed kill Handmaids. In the novel Marthas are older women, in the series they are all young women which is weird. Why aren’t they having babies? Maybe they’re infertile but not guilty of any crimes like infidelity. But then I wonder why not make them Econowives.

spoiler ...

The Testaments novel means now we know June won’t be killed, and that she never regains Hannah. We also know that Aunt Lydia is in fact working for Mayday and uses the Handmaids responsibility to report irregular behaviors in the Commander’s households as a way of spying. And that she eventually uses what she knows to bring down Gilead, but The Testaments happens 15 years after the events in the novel and we know that it actually spanned another 80 years. So I don’t know how it’s going to work in the series.

Maybe former Commander Lawrence will also work for Mayday with Aunt Lydia, and they’ll keep in secret contact with June in Canada now that they know how tricky and brave she is.

I loved the book. I liked the movie, which showcased the late Natasha Richardson and Elizabeth McGovern of Downton Abbey fame, with Duvall and Dunaway rounding out the cast.

But one of the main premises of the book was the segregation/elimination of the black race (the "children of Ham") by the oppressive government, and the series violated that right off the bat. So the show was already compromised.

I never watched the series and I don't plan to -- besides, the clammy Moss doesn't need my support.

BTW, this trailer is really tacky -- the actual movie is much. much better.

TV is too woke now, they couldn’t do The Children of Ham. So instead they make us believe that white Evangelical fraus would want a dark-skinned child from a black Handmaid.

Also, Samira Wiley is TERRIBLE as Moira.

The Handmaid's Tale accidentally proves its premise. Let women taste any power and they'll ruin the thing they've created.

R44 Agree with you. I watched the first 2 seasons and then I was done.

Yes, the racial harmony in the totalitarian Gilead is fucking stupid. Of course, if right wing religious nuts took over completely, they'd segregate the races! Duh!

Moss has a face like a dirty dish cloth.

^^^My sister says Moss looks rusty.

Lol, if she was Hollywood beautiful y’all would be complaining she looks too pretty for what she’s supposed to be going through.

R58 What man would choose that as a cum receiver?

Did have Aunt Lydia bariatric surgery? Looks like it.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, OP.

R60 She definitely looked starved and beaten.

In the book, June is supposed to be an average woman, so Moss was good casting until the show made every man she meets fall in love with her.

^ the pussy buffet in Gilead is slim pickins

So many shows go on for too long nowadays, even on non American TV.

(For Brits: both Midsomer Murders and Benidorm wore out their welcome.)

Game of Thrones started this torture porn shit.

R64 Nick got the younger and better looking Eden and was still obsessed with June.

^^^ because Eden was a pious little mouse

r67 = Matt Gaetz. Eden was 14.

I'm just getting into it. Please explain how some really hot men are having light bondage sex with some fairly ordinary women, and it's the women who are complaining?

R70 cause its rape

A Jezebel's sitcom spinoff might be fun.

This is more likely

“Handmaid’s in the City, if you’re not traumatized, you’re not watching TV!”

I saw a trailer for the new season and Ann Dowd looks like she has lost a lot of weight.

I heard that Serena is knocked up this season.

R73, Just when I thought the "maids" couldn't get any more unappealing, you bring us Amy Schumer. Lol.

If I were straight, I'd rather fuck Serena than June.

Night of the Red Hobos

What ever this show is, the art direction deserves awards all around. It is always stunning looking be it a jail cell, railroad tracks, the inside of a milk tanker or a shot through pipes.

I've always thought the show is so grim and fucked up with what's happening that it's a good thing the cinematography is so pretty.

The book is grimmer

[...]

R82 Yes.

I used to post on the AV Club, and in the comments for the episode reviews of this show, fans would twist themselves into knots justifying the fact that Moss is a Scientologist.

R81 One of the things I from the book I wish they had kept is how Gilead was still using leftover things from the US. In the beginning June talks about how when the handmaids were being indoctrinated they slept in a gym in an old high school and used blankets that said "US ARMY" on them.

[...]

[...]

This series needs more Aunt Lydia and less Superjune.

Aunt lydia dies

The Red Center appears to be an old high school.

Yes that's true R79. It's beautifully shot. The train crossing sequence was stunning.

Re: the beauty in set design and cinematography. All the homos are dead and evangelical Christians are notoriously taste free. Where the fuck is this coming from?

[quote] Do Margaret Atwood and Elizabeth Moss need that much cash.

Moss probably needs the cash for Scieno donations.

There was a blind about an actresses who works a lot because she gave all her money to Scientology and needs to make more money to give to Scientology. Moss was the popular guess because she works all the time.

R93 I remember that blind and a few people had guessed Laura Prepon as well.

The evangelical Christians aren't shooting the film R93! They're in it - not making it. FFS.

Guess I'm in the minority because I actually love the show. Like LOVE it. I agree though that June would have been killed by now with all the shit she's pulled, but remember that Nick is protecting her...for now. The entire show is a love letter to the strength of women. As much as it's about their oppression, it's more about their coming together to fight back. It's actually quite beautiful if you view it that way. The last episode with Rita struggling with Stockholm Syndrome was great. The moment at the end where she's eating the sushi actually made me cry because it was shot so well. The whole show is gorgeous in the cinematography and music.

I don't mind June's close ups. It's her tale after all. When the insurrection in DC was happening all I could think about was this show.

[quote]R96 Guess I'm in the minority because I actually love the show. Like LOVE it.

I’m with you.

When do we get a new season??

We are 4 episodes into the new season right now R97...

"Nearly every scene of each episode holds on Moss' face ... "

That's why I stopped watching after the first season.

[quote]R98 We are 4 episodes into the new season right now

Oh my! I really don’t follow a lot of current stuff, and didn’t know! But this show, and Margaret Atwood in general, is excellent.

I can’t remember if Aunt Lydia’s still alive!! Didn’t June push her down the stairs or something dramatic last season?

[quote](scurries over to Hulu)

Move it along toots.

I’m switching between episodes of this and SHRILL, and am suddenly cracking up thinking of the character of Annie being transported into Gilead and having to muddle through as a klutzy June.

[quote]R7 Elizabeth Moss has taken total control of the series and must, MUST make it ALL about her.

June is the main character. Of course it’s primarily about her. This angers you?

[quote]R51 one of the main premises of the book was the segregation/elimination of the black race (the "children of Ham") by the oppressive government, and the series violated that right off the bat. So the show was already compromised.

You’re right - this is the first screen dramatization that’s ever changed a detail from a novel. And it’s shocking! Shocking, I tell you!

PS: that is not a main premise in the book. Nothing in the plot revolves around it.

Well, It's gotten [bold]REAL[/bold] bad now R99.

Half of each episode is devoted to very close, close ups of her sullen, hateful, angry, ugly face.

And that's without any makeup and Moss is someone who needs to wear makeup to be even vaguely palatable.

OMG. Why are some of you so invested in whether The $cientolagist is well photographed or not? Her character isn’t supposed to be eye candy - she’s just an average woman who ended up in a bad situation.

She wasn’t a model in her earlier life... just an office worker.

She looks like an exquisite actress to me. You hatars of her close-ups and looks are sick. Even as ravaged as she is now she can still look sensational when she’s done up (like when she went into Jezebels before) that is an actress, son.

I would rather have been a jezebel than anyone else. They got to drink, and smoke and fuck. They lazed around all day preparing to welcome men into their cathouse. And then partied all night. It was the only game in all of Gilead for a few laughs.

Have any DLers heard of Queen of Earth? It's a movie she did before Handmaid's Tale where she pioneered the all closeup face acting technique she's now known for. I like it actually, in small doses.

[quote]R109 I would rather have been a jezebel than anyone else... It was the only game in all of Gilead for a few laughs.

Yes. But your holes wear out fast working there, then it’s off to the Colonies.

It’s so funny that posters think Moss looks too “angry” in her closeups (!!)

They’re right, of course. June simply needs to laugh and smile and sing more!

I’m sure there’s plenty of fucking you’d rather not do over at Jezebels.

Cant they give Rory Gilmore a damn thing to do? Is she sick? Lol I can’t believe Janine was in colonies too and now she’s free and out right now with June.

I haven't read this thread yet. But I just this past weekend FINALLY started watching this. The first season (I'm on ep 8) is fucking fantastic. Should I just watch the last two episodes and call it a day?

(It's one of my favorite books, which is why I've resisted. But I was bored and relented)

R115 Season 2 Yvonne Strahovski very impressive. I’ve always been a fan of Elisabeth Moss as well. Season 3 has a few things (I believe there’s a shocking episode visiting Handmaids in another city).

115, no, the second season is also great and the third starts out slow but gets increasingly good. Four so far has been a bit of a mixed bag but it's still good.

The scene with the shot of the Washington Monument make my head explode.

Yeah, it chilling.

But this is even more disturbing.

This video shows how the FX were achieved.

[...]

Gilead is what happens when Protestants run amuck.

If you look up some of the reviews, they're consistent that Elizabeth Moss has bastardized the story. Several of them are suggesting it's time to end the show. Some are calling her characters repeated ability to escape death "Super June".

Moss doesn't seem like she's a megalomaniac when I've seen her in interviews, but this show suggests otherwise. The camera just hangs on her. It's ALLL about HER suffering and overcoming and then saving the day and being brave. It's sort of cartoonish at this point. I really want to see the story play out and end, but they're clearly not going to do that this season and there's no way I've got it in me to stick with this show for another season. I'm already behind three episodes because it's become so basic.

R104 and R107 - You're clearly missing the point or just not watching. Nobody's said the show isn't supposed to be about her or focus on her. But it's over the top. What was initially a complex, well-written, and well-produced series is now 50 minutes of Super June doing something amazing or death-defying.

For example, remember when there used to be scenes of Serena at tea parties with the other wives, or at baby showers, and the tense dialogue. Or the side stories of the Commander and Serena arguing over women reading or writing and it leading to Serena getting her pinky chopped off... or the little scenes with the Martha and the household staff etc.? It was more multi-dimensional and really interesting. It was fun seeing trips to their grocery stores, or how the commanders and wives interacted with one another, or the meetings between the commanders running Gilead.

But now, it's just Elizabeth Moss trying to get hysterical Handmaids to safety, or Elizabeth Moss with a pensive, angry and defiant stare into the camera, and every episode, every. single one., ending with Elizabeth Moss menacingly glaring into the camera, or Elizabeth Moss having to endure the latest round of punishment for escaping or doing something she wasn't supposed to.. meanwhile, there are Handmaids hanging from the wall and being pushed off the tops of buildings for much less. Much of that is inferred of course, because they're too obsessed with Elizabeth Moss to turn the cameras or attention to anyone else. And that gets really old when you're invested in a series and story.

I would like more Aunt Lydia, I must say.

R124 Agreed. If you look at comments for the next episode on youtube and other platforms people are tired of how everything that happens to June is ridiculous. It's just wash rinse repeat at this point.

Those clucking here sounds as if they have not watched the latest game changing episode.

I was done after their ride in the milk train. Janine is on one side of the car, in shadow, and Moss is on the other side with rays of celestial light falling down upon her visage.

Check it out; ridiculous.

The art direction this season is off the rails, suffering never looked to beautiful.

Aunt Lydia used the word “testaments” in the latest episode. Bingo, there’s the bridge to the novel’s sequel “The Testaments.”

[quote]I would like more Aunt Lydia, I must say.

Lying here wet and ready for you big boy!

May the lord open indeed.

This is what bothered me about the milk train:

[bold]SPOILERS:[/bold]

They’re nearly drowning in this cavernous lake of milk, then June paddles over to the correct place along one wall, goes under, then emerges to proclaim, “I found the drain!”

HOW ? ?

That’s not Elizabeth Moss’ fault, though (much as some posters here want to rag on her.) It’s the fault of the WRITERS. Including Margaret Atwood, who’s still a consultant.

[quote]Including Margaret Atwood, who’s still a consultant.

Hey, the check cleared.

Unbeknownst to us, June had summer jobs in college involved in long distance milk tanker trucking and knows her way around the inside of large cylindrical fluid tanks and that the release valve is at either end where the floor slopes the most, which she could identify with her feet.

Current episode:

WTF just happened?

Moira??

It will be so sad if Janine is now dead, but this show is sad.

[bold]#UnderHisEye

If Janine is dead I might not watch anymore.

R16, well, his last name does begin with “Fag”.... so..... probably, and there’s no info about his relationships with anyone.

I wonder if Elizabeth Moss, as a Scientologist, wanted him to be cast because of his name, OT? She must think he’s an Operating Thetan!

Is Elisabeth Moss beautiful?

EM is not the kind of actress that gay men would find attractive, so from that POV no. She does seem the type that would be very marketable to international audiences like Holly Hunter was, she has an every woman quality about her that both men and woman can get behind on a likability scale.

They show too many scenes of her having sex. Is it supposed to be sickening?

The episode just aired was really, really trying. Another episode filled with "SuperJune" running in slow motion with another set of just so coincidences (the bombardment, Moira suddenly turning up in Chicago) and very little actually happening. The show is really running on fumes now. I'm going to hate-watch till the end though so what do they care?

I guess the point of killing all those handmaids and potentially Janine was so June was alone and didnt have a team of girls behind her before her reunion with Moira? Still hope Janine somehow survived and will show up later. Her character deserved better than that ending.

I think Janine is still alive. But I question having Moira as an aid worker in the country she just escaped from.

I wonder if Gilead’s given up on rescuing the children from Canada. That line during the scene with the new handmaids, where they discussed that the new handmaids would replenish the children that were stolen made me wonder that.

Gilead doesn’t love its children, it sees them as a commodity.

I read they want to do three more seasons.

They could do at least a couple more seasons if they start showing the breakdown of Gilead and the fight fully come to a head. If June ever returns to Gilead I'm done unless she is there to fully fuck the Commanders up.

my crystal ball tells me that as soon as the ceasefire is over, the NGO workers will be captured (including Moira) and she’ll be sent to a breeding colony. SuperJune’s job will be to infiltrate and rescue her.

Janine was an albatross around June’s neck, I think they killed her off.

Season 4, episode 5 = within 30 seconds extreme close ups of June's ugly , sullen, hateful face and then 5 minutes later June is trying to get everyone killed. Everyone.

Then more extreme close ups of her sullen, ugly, hateful face like this:

And this:

And this:

And this:

Why is so much of the show closeups of her? She has a face like a potato.

Here's a preview of next week's episode:

This recap of Season 3 makes me laugh, and reminds me what a radical show this is. LOVE IT

“I can’t leave without Hannah!”

omg THAT bullshit again.

Janine has honestly driven me nuts on this show. She is about as dumb as a box of hair. She's a drag on June, makes dumb decisions, doesn't think of the long game. Last week when she slept with that guy in Chicago, she's all like "he's nice, maybe I could stay!" What the fuck?

Agree about the improbability of Moira & June's reunion. Ridiculous. I'd like to see more of the strategic & political stuff: seeing Gilead get taken down would be awesome.

This week's ep had a very "The Walking Dead" vibe, as far as the sets go. Even the scene at the gate to that one zone, where June says "something's not right" I expected walkers to come wandering out.

So, were those weaponized drones at the end of the ep? Interesting commentary on the use of unmanned drones to attack civilians 😮 This show has featured a lot of scenes that mirror things happening (or soon-to-happen) in the US and abroad. Atwood has mentioned this as well.

Like a turnip R155.

Some of you have never taken a class where you analyze literature/poetry etc. and it shows. Janine represents the good in people. She was the catalyst for the whole uprising with the Handmaids when they refused to stone her to death. She's June's conscience, the angel on her shoulder reminding her what she is fighting for. She isn't dead. In fact, she may be the only one who survives.

The last episode was ok and Moira showing up at that moment seems too unbelievable to be true, but my gut is telling me Commander Lawrence had something to do with it. Although even if that isn't the case, life is full of weird happenstances so...

Commander Lawrence agreed to hand June over to Aunt Lydia for punishment, so I doubt it.

Aunt Lydia and Lawrence are working for Mayday now.

They haven’t committed Aunt Lydia to that now, although that’s where she’s headed according to The Testaments. Right now she has the upper hand on Lawrence, since she has people who can finger Lawrence as being at Jezebel’s the night of Winslow’s disappearance.

I am not ashamed to admit- I love this show. However, it’s starting to stale out (I gave up on The Walking Dead at season 6 because it’s the same episode over and over again).

I get they need June- but there is SO MUCH other stuff they could do with Gilead (like Ardua hall or like their view of Washington DC from season 3) and the resistance (like the Republic of Texas) that you could do a whole bunch of world building and occasionally look at what’s happening to June. It also give the cast (Emily and Aunt Lydia) a chance to shine.

But yea- even I think it might be getting too ridiculous to hang on with it for much longer.

I agree that the overfocus on June is hurting the entire show and viewer engagement. In season three they almost exclusively focused on her for the most part and now in season four they’re continuing on with that focus. I miss the interesting side plots in seasons one and two when we learned back stories about some of the handmaids. I keep asking where Emily is because she was a more interesting character to me and once characters get to Canada, they mostly disappear from the show, which is a HUGE missed opportunity to explore healing from trauma and post-agile as adjustment. I’d love to see how Emily is interacting with her wife and child and if there’s any repair there. But no, instead we get too much June.

I love Janine and her sweet innocence. It broke my heart in that one season where she told the handmaids “not too hard, ok?” When they were going to stone her to death. That really tugged at the heartstrings.

*post-Gilead adjustment, rather

Also, the tension between Serena and June was really compelling too, but now it’s gone as well. I almost wished they’d hook up when angry at each other, but they’re supposed to be straight, so....

It doesn't seem like they're sending the message feminism good, all this stuff bad. It doesn't.

It seems like a show for people who would get off on the world being like that. Alas, have to settle for a recreational tale. Enjoy!

the season preview shows June confronting a tearful Serena in prison

Ugh I can't with this "not without Hannah" shit. Gurl, your daughter is a LOST CAUSE. Go to Canada and be with your hot husband who loves you and your other baby.

So. Fucking. Tiresome!

#notwithoutmydaughter

I actually love the focus on June and I find Elizabeth Moss' face so interesting and beautiful. I guess that's why I'm a lesbian because I see something different in her than the men posting here. Her face conveys SO much and her eyes are so piercing blue. She was in the Brandi Carlile video for "Party of One" and again, it was close up's of her face but it's a beautiful video. I find the other characters not as interesting, although I do love me some June and Serena moments which are coming up once June gets out. Yvonne is such a beauty too, in a different way than Moss. I would like to see more with Emily but I also think she will come into play more now that June will get out. And I'm tired of Nick and his wishy washy bullshit and Luke crying about his wife not coming home to him. In the meantime, there's June, risking it all to try to save Hannah while he's safe and warm in Canada. The show really shows the strength of women and the weakness in men and I love that it doesn't shy away from that. I've linked to the Brandi Carlile vid where Moss plays a lesbian and is actually acting with Brandi's wife in this vid.

Correction, that isn't Carlile's wife in that video, but it looks like her.

[quote]R158 “I can’t leave without Hannah!” / omg THAT bullshit again.

I’m sorry your parents didn’t love you.

It must hurt.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Janine is the Carol from Walking Dead in this show, the one from the start you pegged to not make it beyond the first episode, who ends up outliving them all. I wouldn’t be surprised if Carol becomes an identifiable trope in the future. “You’re such a Carol!”

I loved Janine throwing out the "red 5 standing by" line in episode 3. It's from Star Wars. It was a shock that reminded us that Handmaids Tale is set in the near future, not the past as my sister thought it was.

I want to see a Handmaid’s Tale / Cruel Summer cross over episode.

Many of my lesbian friends agree; EM's face looks like someone painted eyes on the bottom of of big toe. And hogging up every scene with it, especially being a producer, just makes her a ravenous camera cunt.

I like the show in general, but enough mugging from Ms. Moss. It's bringing the show to a drag.

R173 STFU with your strength in women/weakness in men shit. What do YOU know about men?

A lot, r180

Hulu series not enough for you? Come experience the opera!

It still cracks me up that posters are sooo upset by how “dour and angry” June looks... as if guerrilla revolutionaries look like this:

I gotta admit, you cracked me up with that, R183!

It’s how Gilead wants June to look!

the guy who plays luke was doing an interview about the show and he kept talking about how good-looking the guy who played nick was He also seemed to really like him so maybe he is gay.

Let us end Handmaids and move on to Testaments so we can watch Lydia blow up the whole fucking thing.

There’s a 5th Handmaid’s season.

And likely as many as ten.

This show does not have 10 seasons of story to tell.

And sorry, I don't buy Aunt Lydia as a secret rebel, plotting to overthrow Gilead. That does not jibe with the monster who gouged out Janine's eye, burned other handmaid's hands with irons, beat them senselessly and watched with glee as they were hanged.

The narrative retrofitting to make that work will stretch credulity, at bes.

Cult of $cientology lead actor = HARD PASS

I still enjoy the show very much. But the "rape" in the last episode was stupid. He wasn't raped. He's two times her size. All he had to do was turn over.

R168, here's a short video you might like:

Behind the scenes...

What the fuck????

[quote] I don't buy Aunt Lydia as a secret rebel, plotting to overthrow Gilead

I won’t watch the show, but Atwood’s book, “the testaments” strongly implies this

This show absolutely could make it to season 10. Middle class white women love nothing more than to see white women be tortured so they can imagine themselves as victims. The show doesn't need better writers, just keep the gory shit flowing and white women will tune in.

R197 - We need to be coffee friends.

R173 has some colossal daddy issues to work out.

R173? Moss is fug.

That is all.

Janine isn’t dead!

Poor Janine. Nothing goes right for her. I'm glad she's still in the show though.

I kind of wish this were the last season of the show. I know it’s coming back, so please let it end next year! I like the show but as with the Leftovers season 1, I feel like I’m being kicked in the gut each episode. If it lightens up for 5 mins, you know something even more dreadful is coming round the bend. At least Leftovers totally changed its tone after the first season.

Not gonna lie, was shocked by the righteous anger, but happiness of the Gilmore Girl’s response to what the aunt did.

Yeah, I was glad Emily was so happy at the end, that was a good bit. That actress has really been a revelation in this series.

I wish this was the last season too... and if they are continuing it that maybe they start shifting into The Testaments from here?

Is Ann Dowd’s health OK? I know she’s supposed to be under stress, but with maybe some weight having been lost she seems kind of drawn and not well. I did like seeing her lose it this week and wonder if there will be repercussions for her. But I hope the actress is well.

I stopped watching after Series 2. It was enough then.

You spoiler cunts like CUNT R201 need to quit with the race to put spoilers out there. I get that you don't have a life so you're available to watch the new episodes the second they're released but productive members of society like me usually have to wait until I get home from work to watch them.

I wondered that about Ann Dowd, too although I think she likely just lost the weight during the lockdowns. I think she looks better than she did but maybe she's dealing with something.

And sorry you stopped watching after Season 2, r207. Season 3's second half was outstanding television.

Dowd was quite beautiful when she was young. I’ve seen her on two SVUs and she played Tom Hanks pregnant sister in Philadelphia.

When June and Spineless Flaccid Pathetic Luke (who needs a lot of slapping) were eating dinner at the table and Luke was lamenting and sobbing into his food about how he didn't know what to do and he was trying and me, me me, blah, blah, blah - did anyone else just want to stab him in the temple with a fork? (The actor that plays Luke is gorgeous though thankfully).

Now she is in Canada I am liking June much more. She is fucking FIERCE! She isn't taking any shit from other returnees about how they should be forgiving everybody. She wants bodies and I respect that.

I didn't think when June was giving the victim statement at the tribunal that it went far enough. They tortured her, screamed at her, tied her up, locked her up, raped her repeatedly, beat her etc. I wanted to hear more but I guess they are saving all of that for the actual trial. Serena should have been left sobbing on the ground as June left. The commander should have shit his pants and June should have repeated "At least it wasn't him raping me..."

Also - Aunt Lydia has gone insane. Poor old duck that she is. You can see that they're going to come for her soon. Fascinating. Would love her to turn against Gilead out of disgust.

It's getting better again.

That might be going a bit far to say she was quite beautiful when she was young R210!

Here she is in Philadelphia:

OT Fag-bangle, or whatever his name is, is really cute, I agree. I'd love to go on a date with him, actually (with sex afterwards, obviously). He was one of my favourite characters on Looking, I remember.

I'm also really liking June in Canada. I've loved both these June in Canada episodes so far. I am interested in things like how the survivors are managing life now they are free, the exploration of trauma (which feels really well done and researched), etc. If you'd have told me before this season that I would prefer these episodes to the one where June actually crosses the border, I wouldn't have believed it, but it is so.

I really liked June's testimony. I understand why people wanted her to say more, but she was restricted to talking about Waterford particularly and I loved how the camera spent the whole time on her face, not on the reaction of others, and how calmly she told it all, no dramatics, no crazy music etc. It really showed the horror of it all much better.

On another board I was on yesterday, people were saying they thought the defense lawyer was purposely cast to look like Nikki Haley.

Why does everyone that escapes Gilead ends up in the same Canadian town? Is Canada just one city now?

And same with Gilead. Everyone that becomes some big shot politician in Gilead, is someone that crossed paths paths with June. Considering that Gilead should be the size of the USA (minus some parts of California and Texas, I guess, which were taken over by the rebels), one would expect there to be thousands of big leaders all over the place. But apparently they all live on the same street. I mean, her former lover/driver is the one that carried out the airstrike on Chicago, for some reason.

You really haven't been paying much attention, have you r214?

I met Elizabeth Moss at a party on 14th Street. She was lovely. I'd never have guessed she was a scientology/Q loon. She wasn't with Fred Armisan the time, but some guy that looked like him

In all the interviews I've ever seen with her, she seems really sweet and lovely.

I'm also waiting for June to burn it all down and I love how different she is from the giggling innocent we see of her in the flashbacks. There's no way she's ending up with either Luke or Nick. She's too different now but I love her fierceness in Canada as well.

The show is getting a little better, it it’s also revealing its deep soap opera ethos, with a heavy emphasis on “opera”. Every scene has heavy handed underscoring to emphasize the emotional drama. The design elements are lovely and evocative, but overwrought. Even jail cells are aesthetically conceived, and the court room is epic. That seemed more right in Gilead than it does in Canada.

R215 Explain

I mean, her former lover/driver is the one that carried out the airstrike on Chicago, for some reason.

Nick was the driver for Commander Waterford until he was promoted. They then forced him to marry the young girl who he didn't want to marry and who thought he was maybe gay because he wouldn't sleep with her. She then was drowned in a swimming pool with the lover she took in front of an audience. Nick was then sent to the front lines in Chicago to help with the war. Nick has a lot of power now although he didn't at first. He's "helped" June on the DL because he cares for her and they had the kid together. He is in a precarious position, just like Commander Lawrence where, neither of them believe in Gilead anymore but will be killed if they openly rebel.

[quote] I met Elizabeth Moss at a party on 14th Street. She was lovely. I'd never have guessed she was a scientology/Q loon. She wasn't with Fred Armisan the time, but some guy that looked like him

Moss is a second gen Scieno. She doesn't seem as weird as other second gen Scienos like Masterson siblings or Erika Christensen.

I have to say, I’m hoping part of her virulent diatribe against Gilead is motivated by what she’d really like to say against Scientology, or that the series would inspire her to disassociate with them or even dismantle them from the inside Junesque.

Janine is going to be made into a Pearl Girl, mark my words

R223 Not sure what Pearl Girl means, but I think she will become an Aunt. And, in order to tie The Testaments into it, maybe the Aunt who helps take down Gilliad?

R223, oh I'd be interested in that! I found the Pearl Girls were a really creepy part of The Testaments.

If she becomes a Pearl Girl she might be able to escape. the Pearl Girls can go to Canada to recruit.

She will likely be a Martha, not an Aunt. The Aunts are the true believers. But Janine is still of child bearing age so it's more likely she'll remain a handmaid.

Janine and June are getting long in the tooth and they have the new crop of handmaids so I doubt Janine would still be a handmaid. R277 is on the right track for the most part.

In case you don't know what a Pearl Girl is:

even if Aunt Lydia wants to do something kind for Janine, we have to remember Janine committed sex crimes (according to Gilead standards) which is why she was a Handmaid. So while I was the one to suggest maybe Janine would be a Pearl Girl, it’s unlikely now that I think about it because the PGs are Supplicants to the order of Aunts, and have to be innocent of the sex crimes that many women are guilty of in Gilead. So, back to being a Handmaid she goes, although perhaps without a posting. Maybe they’ll make her a head Handmaid, or some kind of Handmaid hall-monitor in the Red Center.

R197 Totally accurate. I think it makes their gineys tingle.

R229 Pearl Girl makes sense. Remember that they showed women in Canada who were sympathetic to Gilliad. It would tie the two themes together.

As for Gillad, if they would honor the handmaids, or even just keep them in all in a private residences where they can eat, read, watch movies, then I bet more women would, if not like it, at least accept it.

R230 maybe she will get lucky and go to commander Laurence. He doesn't really seem to have sex with his handmaids.

I think the new Aunt (the one Aunt Lydia cattle prodded) is a spy.

R234 So, you’re r suggesting she did that knowingly?

Aunt Lydia has been having these out-of-control episodes for a while, remember when she beat Janine up at the christening party? or when she zapped June at Lawrence’s house?

R211 / R173 - WTF are you doing trolling a gay mens' discussion site? You've got some fucked up issues with men. Go back to LipstickAlley or whatever vagina cape you crawled out from under until you work through them, ok hon?

I'm actually pretty irritated at June's "I'm going to take over the trauma group" attitude. She just walked in like she owns the place and knows more about mental health after trauma (no, she doesn't know anything). Poor Moira! Now they're getting into power battles.

Oh please, r237. I've been here since the early 2000's so you can shove your "why are you on a gay men's discussion board" up your prolapsed anus. This board has always been for gay men and lesbians. And if you think I've got issues with most straight men, well then you don't really understand lesbians very well do you?

What the fuck are you on about R237? Is your blown out, flapping in the wind, ravaged Holland Tunnel sized asshole troubling you today? Can't get a hotdog to throw down it?

I'm R211 (but not R173) and I can assure you I'm a gay male. Check my posting history cunt and then go and DIAGF.

The having to look at June's vacant staring mug at the end of each episode is tortuous. I'm hate watching now but I turn it off 2 mins before the end because I just can't look at her anymore.

No you don't, r241. Because if you missed tonight's ending, then you missed the best moment of the show. She's gonna burn it ALL down and she doesn't care who she kills in the process.

I haven't bothered watching the latest one yet - it's a hate watch for me so I wait til I have run out of good shows

June is like the most unsympathetic character now. Rep. Tuwillo or however you spell his name is hunk!

I was hoping Esther would hang herself. Hopefully she'll at least kill a few Aunts.

Esther IS the new Offred, she’s going to fuck Gilead up and burn it to the ground, she’s going to make what June did look like a bitch slap.

I predict Esther is going to die on the wall soon.

I am glad Serena is getting out. Or at least I assume she is part of the plea. I find her a sympathetic character.

Who says Serena is getting out? Fred already made a plea deal. He's going to turn on her so he can get the baby.

[bold]: o

I loved the fear that Naomi's visit put in Serena. Now she knows how the handmaids feel when their children are taken from them. I'm sure a child of a Commander is a great "get" for another Commander.

Plenty of great moments this episode. Bradley Whitford has been a terrific addition.

R228 The actress playing Janine is only 28, I do think Elisabeth will turn 40 this year, though.

Serena Joy ravaged as a handmaid would be something else!

I bet producers would really like to use Yvonne and Madeline for The Testaments.

R247 IS Phyllis Schlafly.

[quote]Rep. Tuwillo or however you spell his name is hunk!

He's scum. Which I have been saying ever since he told Moira she was "out of line" for talking back to Serena. And now we see how truly scummy he is. Of course, it's completely realistic too - all those Nazis and Japanese torturers squirreled away by the US after the war ring any bells?

I hate to say it, but the show is losing me this season. I'll stick with it through the end, but it is one of the most stressful shows on TV because I'm constantly on edge watching it. When June was at the house looking for Nick there was a moment when I thought, "she's been betrayed...again and Nick is going to turn her in...again." And instead she went all school girl when she saw him. Something feels "off" this season. Maybe it's because we all went through the pandemic and the shit show on June 6th but watching all the idiots cheering for and sending Serena and Fred the gifts for their stupid baby turns my stomach because it's absolutely what would happen if this was real. Not sure how much more June or I can take.

R256 What the hell did I miss on June 6th?

I believe it was the fifth-monthiversary of Jan. 6th r257.

Sorry, yeah, I meant Jan 6th. It's late and I'm tired.

If they’re going to hit The Testaments, when was the last time a teen actress was discovered who was worth a damn? And they’re going to need at least four.

R260 the girl who plays Esther is tearing it up on here, and they maybe in their twenties now, but both Mare’s daughter and dead girl Erin did amazing jobs.

The show is so well done. I’m pretty sure June is going to dump Luke. She’s not the person she was when they were together.

[quote]’m pretty sure June is going to dump Luke. She’s not the person she was when they were together.

She seemed more comfortable and at peace with Nick than with Luke. Although Luke tells her constantly he wants her to share her experiences, she knows he can't truly understand the way Nick can. Nick truly understands her broken parts and they have the shared experience of what they had to do to survive in Gilead.

I want to know who Nick married.

There was a look she gave Luke when he was breaking down at the kitchen table (2 episodes ago?) where she almost roller her eyes before comforting him. It’s something women are conditioned to do a lot - not just manage their own feelings but also soothe and baby and protect the men around them. Which is something all loving people do for each other… but I’m sure it gets to be a bit much.

June is someone who’s returned from almost a decade on the battlefield and in POW camps, and she’s grown beyond Luke (well meaning as he may be.)

^^ ROLLED her eyes - not roller her eyes.

There was no paint involved.

[QUOTE]It’s something women are conditioned to do a lot - not just manage their own feelings but also soothe and baby and protect the men around them.

This has not been my personal experience.

[quote]I hate to say it, but the show is losing me this season

it' lost me well over a season ago

[quote]R267 This has not been my personal experience. —Quite the opposite, in fact.

Then you are not terribly observant, on the whole.

Interesting part of June's testimony is when she's talking and addressing the court, then pauses, blinks, then looks directly at the camera and continues speaking directly to us. In my mind, it was some subversive propaganda. I saw it as June/Elizabeth sequence where she's basically looking at us and saying "Yes this looks familiar. Women are speaking up more and more about sexual assault and abuse. I'm doing it right now. You can also do it. You can write out and make a statement just like me." She's no longer talking about Gilead. She's talking about our reality.

I'm interested in more McKenna Grace/Esther. That girl is GOOD. She reminds me of Anna Kendrick in "Camp" where she is just unapologetically crazy and devious.

I’m tired of Moira.

She’s a terrible actress, sorry. I know we all want a powerful black woman character but this one falls short. Sorry.

Moira is ok. I liked her the first season and I like her in the flashbacks. The episode where she finds out her wife had died was powerful. But she's sort of a character that they don't know what to do with. Janine was June's conscience in Gilead and Moira is it in Canada. But she's a bit heavy handed in her acting, yes.

I wish they would do more with Rita. I loved the episode where she went to comfort the little boy who had been rescued from Gilead.

that little boy, and others like him, will probably be sent back to Gilead since he doesn’t have close relatives in Canada. His father is dead, mother is a handmaid, and he was given to his father’s relatives who don’t know what to do with him.

R248 Yes, that is possible as well. But Mr. Waterford seems to love Serena Joy, and he encouraged her to write a book. I think he is going to position himself as s Giliad reformer in Canada, and he will need Serena for that. It is very possible that he demanded his wife get immunity as well.

I guess June will hunt down and kill Mr. Waterford if he remains free in Canada.

(munches popcorn)

[quote]I’m pretty sure June is going to dump Luke.

God let's hope so. He is absolutely insufferable. Manipulative and pathetic. The character - not the actor.

I live for the moments when Serena and Fred turn on each other. They are so good in their roles.

I’m all for Luke doing something heroic to save Hannah and dying in the process.

If you read the testaments in the epilog it states that both nick and luke live and are all (including both daughters) in Canada but it is years later.

I tried 3 episodes of Season 3 and I'm done. Just too loud and relentlessly depressing.

R261 I don’t like Esther or Siobhan. I thought Sosie Bacon did well.

Luke may live but he won’t be raising Nichole. The Testaments makes that clear, it’s too dangerous to keep her so they put her in hiding with a Mayday family and she grows up not knowing her parentage until she’s in her teens.

Those two new aunts we are seeing this season really give me the creeps. They do a very good job of simply looking like they would do evil.

R283 yes, that is true and you don't know if June ends up being with either of them. But the inscription on the statue in the epilogue indicates that they are all together in some fashion. The girls each know their fathers and June and June's daughter's grandchildren. 200 years later the epilogue says that the former U.S. is now held by native Americans because the U.S. fell for a second time.

PLEASE NO BOOK SPOILERS! PLEASE NO BOOK SPOILERS!

Not joking. I'm finishing The Handmaid's Tale soon and have The Testaments

Not joking. Nobody gives a fuck r286.

R286 Then read a different thread.

R190 I'm a big fan of the original novel, but I HATED The Testaments for that reason. In the first novel, Aunt Lydia seems to have become an aunt to have power over others and enjoys abusing them.

R265 Decade! She was in Gilead four years.

Lydia performed the savage acts because she was acting, she was tortured, and also because she was into it? I think it’s possible and very complicated and the actress is easily up to the challenge...

June’s storyline is the least interesting to watch right now. I’m much more attracted to see what happens with Esther and Janine or Serena and Fred.

R292 They should have made it similar to Walking Dead with various interlocking stories. I want to know more about Emily- she is a scientist, why not have her researching the infertility crisis while dealing with her trauma. Lets learn about the problems facing the refugees; are we to believe there is no push back from Canadians? What about the colonies? So much wasted potential.

The Serena and Fred scenes are the absolute best part of the show.

Season 3 was repetitive and dreary,but I am liking this season very much.

The show has been at its best when it was world-building. How on Earth did the U.S. fall into this dystopian nightmare?

The few flashbacks we've seen have been harrowing: June and her friend finding out their credit cards don't work after a yoga class when a Son of Jacob barista yells at them; the women in her office marched out with their belongings when all women are stripped of jobs; Gilead firing on protestors; Fred and Serena plotting in DC to overthrow the government.

But there's so little of the and almost none anymore. What are the colonies? Areas of radioactive waste? Does that mean there were nuclear strikes or meltdown in the U.S.? This would be fascinating, but is never explained or dramatized.

And it would be a damned shame if the show didn't have an episode flashing back to the President and Congress being killed at the U.S. Capitol when the Sons of Jacob overthrew the U.S. government. That's a direct parallel to what happened in real life on January 6th and it would be a terrible missed opportunity not to make that crystal-clear.

Last week's episode was great. It had a very dark tone to it with a little hint of excitement.

June's reunion with her husband has been awkward, and it's now clear that she's in love with Nick. June's main story is now a love triangle. Being a newly strong feminist character, I'll bet she chooses neither man and decides that she ultimately wants to be independent. She will choose her mission (overturning Gilead) over romance. The last episode should end with her walking away to board a ship to Gilead, while both men sadly watch her leave.

I loved Naomi's visit to Serena. The character of Serena is complex and intriguing, but I don't know if she can ever redeem herself. Unless she goes back to Gilead and walks through a battlefield to hand-deliver Hannah to June.

R290 she has been in Gilead for 7 years. She had a post before the Waterfords.

[quote] I wish they would do more with Rita. I loved the episode where she went to comfort the little boy who had been rescued from Gilead.

I agree. They should reveal what her life was like before Gilead and maybe show a flashback with her son who died in the war.

Rita wasn't a handmaid, but she was still forced to be a servant. There should be a support group for Marthas, too.

Do any of the Gilead refugees in Canada have jobs? They can't all work for the Canadian immigration service, can they? What if Rita went looking for a job, and the only job she found was a housekeeper position? What if the cooking and cleaning under supervision gave her flashbacks? What if she was putting away laundry in her new boss' closet and found a long teal cloak? Maybe her new boss was a former commander's wife who had fled to Canada and blended in. The writers can find something for Rita to do. She's an interesting character played by a great actress. (Trivia: the actress who plays Rita was a fan of the book, and in college, she wrote a paper that focused on Rita.)

I want to see Rita Revenging Angel!

R297 Why would she be boarding a ship to Gilead? That makes no sense.

^^^ Maybe it’s a spaceship and she’s going to carpet bomb those motherfuckers?

R301 I think Rita and some of the characters will get forms of revenge by the end of the series.

Did anyone think that Mark guy was into Serena?

[quote]Did anyone think that Mark guy was into Serena?

I actually thought they had an affair. I guess their body language last season made me think that something happened or was bound to happen between them.

r306

I was wondering the same thing... I don't remember when Serena and Fred ever did it to conceive the babt

He's the real father of Serena's bebe!

R300 That Rita idea would be incredible.

I imagine that some of the refugees, like Emily, would have an easy time getting work. She was a scientist before; it isn’t like she is a refugee from Syria starting over; she is in Canada from the States. I imagine the influx of refugees and probably economic downturn would make other refugees who worked in sectors such as service, finance, and humanities redundant.

Serena gave Fred a pity fuck in a hotel they were staying in right before they got arrested R307

[quote]R296 The show has been at its best when it was world-building. How on Earth did the U.S. fall into this dystopian nightmare?

That’s when the show is at its best FOR YOU. Personally, I don’t care about that stuff. The human interactions and how they deal with their present, changing circumstances is more engrossing to me (and apparently Margaret Atwood.)

When reading the novel, I found the political aspect of it, the world building, the international relations, etc part of it that was alluded to really interesting and wanted to know more... but I think in a way it is better to imagine that yourself. When others create it in the show and don't make the choices you think would happen, it's sort of disappointing haha.

I did really enjoy the epilogue though.

[quote]r300 Rita wasn't a handmaid, but she was still forced to be a servant. There should be a support group for Marthas, too.

[bold]#Justice4Marthas

#SupportYourLocalMartha

R308 I didn't think of that! Before she was arrested for facilitating Nick and June's relationship, I thought that the show was gonna do a Serena/Mark romance.

R312 I think it's more because the show has largely made bad choices in their worldbuilding.

Amanda Brugel who plays Rita did a recent interview with Elle where she mentions making up backstories for Rita and she mentions hoping that Serena's baby is taken away and raised by Rita.

What the hell is this show about human trafficking?

Kind of.

Now that the Waterfords are turning against Gilead should be interesting. I can't imagine June screaming into the American government guy that she is going to kill him is going to help her much.

[quote] [R312] I think it's more because the show has largely made bad choices in their worldbuilding.

Agreed. The world building on the show was great until they came to the end of Atwood's text and then it was like they had no clue what to do and no concern for whether the events of the show were plausible and consistent within the world of the show. Just as one example, the number of times June should have ended up on the wall and somehow escaped that fate was absurd. They should have either sent her off to Canada much earlier than this season or figured out how to kill off the main character but keep the show going. And that's a simple example; when you start examining the various leaders' political philosophies or what the strategies are supposed to be behind their policies, acts of war, etc., it's an unbelievable mess.

^ I think Hulu's doing a spin off show based on The Testaments (Atwood's recent sequel to Handmaid). I look forward to that IF Hulu can wrap it up within the time frame of the book and not fall off a cliff trying to do their own thing with it. I'd also be happy to see elements of the Testaments incorporated into HMT; I think that might help to make sense of some of the mess.

They never followed up, or even mentioned in any way, the whole Mexican thing from the first season, which sounded really interesting.

They touched on Canadians getting sick of refugees in one small scene last season (I think), and then dropped it.

They focus a little too much on reflecting what's happening in the world now in the show, just so the audience can have an "a-ha!" moment, but never follow through on these moments much either.

One of the things I think they should've done from the beginning, knowing they wanted to expand the world of the novel, is to map out what the world that interacts with Gilead would look like and how it might develop, and they clearly haven't.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Rita goes back to Gilead. She seems to have affection for the lifestyle, we see her baking bread and it seemed like she was back in her element. We also see her eating sushi from plastic containers and Styrofoam and there’s a small wrinkle on her face as if she knows she’s doing something bad. Her interactions with the little Gilead boy show me that she’s sympathetic.

Um, no r322. You missed the entire point of that episode which was the Sushi represented her claiming her life back from Gilead. Sushi wasn't something they had in Gilead and her look is of pure joy when she eats it. She would never choose to go back to Gilead.

If women have it that bad in Gilead, I can only imagine the situation in Saudi Arabia!

Maybe you should write, produce and direct a television show about it r324!

So, in the first episode it's mentioned that the Waterford's are the second couple that June was a handmaid for (in the book they're the third), so why does she never bring up the first couple? They committed many of the same crimes (like the government-sectioned rapes) as the Waterfords.

because the Waterford’s went over the line. Serena beat June, played mind games, and ordered June to sleep with Nick. Finally Serena forced Fred to rape June to induce labor. The thing with Nick and raping a 9 month pregnant woman are crimes in Gilead.

Serena also possibly murdered the previous Handmaid in the Waterford household, either by hand or drove her to suicide.

^because that commander had a dick of death!

LOL moment from last week: when Fred is sitting with Commander Putnam and realizes that Gilead will not be coming to save him, and Cdr. Putnam says "...we will continue to send you our thoughts and prayers." 🤣🤣🤣

R327 Fred was initially arrested for raping June. By that standard, her first commander could be as well.

Will Whoopi be on hand for the trial to expound on if it was rape rape?

THESE OLD CUNTS NEED TO DIE.

R330 me too… I didn’t think they would have access to Datalounge in Gilead!

R330 Because her first commander isn’t in Canada, dipshit.

The only way this wretched show that's lost any semblance of cohesive plot can be redeemed is if they bring on Heather Locklear in S5 and rename it "Gilead Place."

R335 way to miss the joke, asshole.

As if the end of each show weren't enough, they NOW seem to be opening each episode with a long, holding shot on June's pensive, enraged face, just like they do at the end. Whomever at the show finds this somehow 'edgy' or artistic or meaningful has got to be the most unqualified, idiotic person working in Hollywood.

June now seems like the least likable character. They're beating viewers over the head with the whole "June has pent-up rage simmering under the surface" shtick. We get it. She has survivor's rage. She wants revenge. She wants to "feel power" by dominating her husband in the bed, etc. etc. etc.

Is it possible that, as executive producer, Elizabeth Moss is just an out-of-control narcissist who insists on making every single second of the series all about her character's feelings and torture? I'm actually just sick of her in nearly every scene. I don't even find the character sympathetic anymore.

Agree with R296 that there has got to be some storyline detailing the overthrow of the U.S. government. It would be intense and fascinating to see the siege of the president and Congress, especially considering the events of January 6, 2021.

Did NATO attempt to intervene? Were there nuclear strikes? How did they get control of the U.S. military, etc. I know it isn't part ofthe book but they've strayed so far anyway that viewers who have stuck with this hot mess of a series deserve to see some context and action.

The show/story does not have to be 24/7 June June June Super June June June June!

[quote][R335] way to miss the joke, asshole.

Gentle r337, I suspect that r335 did not miss your joke.

I suspect that his response was actually meant for r331.

R340 Is right, I am afraid.

I apologize to R330 and will admit to being stupid. R331 is still a dipshit however.

They addressed how the US fell in a lot of the episodes in Season one. They wiped out the 3 branches of government simultaneously with people on the inside and then they had enough of the military on their side that they were able to take over. By the time people realized what was happening and began fleeing to Canada, it was too late and the military had gone full martial law. Some of those episodes were really well done where they showed all the women being fired at their jobs because it was now the law that women couldn't work and then they seized their bank accounts. There were protests that then turned deadly when the police/military opened fire on them. They showed how homosexuals were targeted and killed and how they rounded up the women who had previously given birth to turn them into handmaids. I don't think showing how this happened in greater detail would be that much more interesting than what we already saw but I guess if you need everything spelled out for you then maybe that show would be made.

R342 But it doesn’t talk about the colonies. The bombings. The international community. A lot of missed opportunities.

^Excuse me Miss but I have problems of my own...

R343, the show did talk about the colonies. In Season 1, Janine and the Gilmore Girl were sent to the colonies after they committed offenses as handmaids. It was a nuclear waste dump, and basically you shoveled toxic contaminated dirt out of the way...until you died from radiation a few months later. They even had a love storyline about two of the women there; one was dying, and the other women held a funeral for her.

R342 = HOW that downfall occurred is no doubt more relevant now than it was when the book was written, which is why so many of us think it shouldn't be overlooked.

R343 = Fair enough, but WHY are there vast radioactive regions in the U.S.? Nuclear strikes? Meltdowns? What??

And how about delving into what apparently is a global fertility crisis. What's causing it? How are other countries handling it? If only a handful of women in a country the size of the U.S. can produce babies - such that the kidnaping of 86 children is cause for alarm - isn't every other nation in the world panicked? Are there other Gileads forming elsewhere?

So many questions that could lead to fascinating answers, but no, all we get are more extreme close-ups of Moss' flaring nostrils, ad nauseam.

"And how about delving into what apparently is a global fertility crisis. What's causing it?"

Covid 19!

R345 They undid the impact of that subplot by making Janine and Emily handmaids again.

I laughed when Serena realized that Naomi was trying to get Serena's baby.

I can't remember exactly, but in the book wasn't there a discussion at the end about how the fertility problems weren't worldwide, but more limited in scope? Like due to environmental factors in North America, more like to affect Caucasian men etc? It's kinda hazy to me, but I'm sure I'm not making it up.

The book mentioned birth control, abortion, VD (yes, that is the term she used) and simple unwillingness as factors in the birth drop. In other words, pretty much like today

R350 Yes, it said that birth rates were down in the US, particularly among Caucasians.

If you are in the west you can watch the finale tonight at 9:00 PM. I read that are going to be some big surprises according to Serena. She actually is pregnant in real life. She seems like a fun person.

Sorry for not reading the thread first - would feel like I'm watching the show. But I hope the harrowing one-woman-show episode from season 3 where June midwifes herself giving birth, cutting the umbilical cord in gory detail, has been mentioned. No other scene or character for an entire episode. What the fuck was that? Elizabeth Moss is a narcissist for agreeing to that. And that was the episode they submitted for the Emmys.

R354 It’s what’s referred to as a bottle episode. It creates an intimacy and sometimes claustrophobia feeling for an episode depending on what the writers are after. It also has practical issues in production as they are cheap episodes to produce with one setting and usually limited actors. For some writers it’s about creating a tour de once episode that challenges them to think about the show and character in new ways.

r352 - yes, the book slants MUCH MUCH more racist of the sons of jacob (and the sequel too) than the tv series. the book points out that the mother of june goes to anti-pornography rallies in her youth, or possibly anti-abortion rallies, or both

Is tonight the finale? Every season prior has had 13 episodes and tonight would be episode 10.

Wow, what a send off. It’s available three hours early on the east coast for those waiting.

Holy shit! Is it bad that I found that so fucking satisfying?

RUN!

R354 that was a fantastic episode. My friend who has two kids said she was in awe of June having that baby that way. That episode showed she was a bad ass. And Fred and Serena came looking for her in that episode so she wasn't the only person in that one.

This was an interesting read. There’s was to be much more with Emily (Gilmore Girl) and her wife, but Alexis had limited time due to COVID-19 and family issues and the other actress wasn’t available at all.

too many people going off the deep end

I call that thinning the herd r363.

"Run..."

Wow! Great finale!

"Choose... Alright... Run".

Seeing Serena react to what happened is going to be fucking fascinating and really worth watching. Especially after she started stomping around making demands about respect and houses then telling the Canadians how June had done enough now and it was time to control her etc. I wonder if the mail delivery will be given to her... I was hoping they would show her reaction in this episode.

Loved the split second shot of the hanging on the makeshift wall. “Nolite te Bastardes Carborundorum”. That's what I call revenge.

What will Canada do with June? How will they even know about what's happened? It happened in a free zone and no-one from Gilead even knows about it. I assume the marriage with Luke is over now too. Finally. He is a spineless pathetic idiot and isn't cut out to be with someone like June. It's best he's not around her any more. I didn't see Moira in the crowd but I saw Emily...

Moira wasn't there. Moira didn't agree that June should put him on the wall. She wanted June to go through legal channels. June is leaving to join the resistance.

I’m sure June his hoping that the shock of the finger and the ring will cause Serena to miscarry and that will move forward on her prophecy. Maybe she and Emily will hook up now and they will be the Lesbian Avenger former Handmaids?

Luke is more handsome

[quote] I thought that the show was gonna do a Serena/Mark romance.

With Fred telling Mark he knows what he covets, and Mark's obvious disappointment of Serena playing supportive wife for Fred, I take it that it's supposed to be a given that Mark and Serena have feelings for each other.

I loved that Fred got what was coming to him and then some!

Got to admit, I thought they would end the season with Nichole kidnapped, especially after Luke mentioned increased security, though we’ve never actually seen much of her security in Canada.

Well, it’s good to see the Former Handmaids support group getting out of the library and getting some fresh air for a change. It’ll do them good.

I mean I love the former handmaids etc. tearing Fred apart but this arc for June makes her unlikable. Especially since she's still into Nick, who is probably a believer.

If Luke goes into hiding for most of next season I won’t be disappointed.

R372 = 😍

I guess another practical reason the Handmaid’s wore red is so that when they tore people apart limb by limb the blood stains didn’t show so badly on their outfits.

So, there’s a TikTok meme that has dramatic music punctuated with the word “RUN!” and there are ten examples here. I so want someone to take clips from this episode and that scene and do a TikTok to them with that sound bite. Any creative people know how to do that?

I’m hoping June doesn’t go all Sharon Tate on Serena, that would push me over the edge.

Use Audacity software to lift the audio bites R377. It's free, a lot of professionals use it and it's very good. Lots of tutorials.

June already has R378. Now we just need to see Serena's reaction! I hope they seal up the envelope and deliver her the finger and wedding ring. He took her finger and now they took his and gifted it to her along with the knowledge that her husband is dead. She hates him anyway. It's probably someone else's baby. Some 18 yo gardener or driver.

Is Nick the father of Sabrina's child? Or is it the government agent?

They overplayed their hand. It would have been satisfying if Fred was tried in Gilead and ended up on the Wall, a victim of his own laws. But they had to show female power, so they veered into a ridiculously implausible direction where 20 or so women go into no man’s land and hide in the bushes until summoned by whistle.

The show has moments of real inspiration but strings them together with stupid and implausible plots.

I’m pretty sure Fred’s the dad. Remember the time they had sex & one of them said something like “we could go to jail for this”? Since marital relations are forbidden, save the semen for a fertile candidate.

Actually, the show has always been about female empowerment and I thought it was a fitting end to one of the worst Commanders. It's funny and telling when folks like r382 don't get upset about all the raping and killing and maiming of women that happens on the show, but gets all huffy when something horrid is done to one of the men. I think this June is a bit batty but June has always been about justice and revenge so in my eyes, it didn't make her less likeable. I think it was a nice change to see women on a show doing the violence against the men for once. I felt the same when she murdered Chris Meloni. So many women in real life have revenge fantasies against their abusers yet they are told to forgive and move on like good little girls. Handmaids at least shows that women's anger can be justified and real. But society obviously isn't used to seeing it on display like it was last night. It was delicious to see that they went there.

Surely June would get away with this though, because Gilead were just going to kill him anyway, so they won't give a shit he's dead. Canada was finished with him, so they won't care. The only person who would even know June and the handmaids were responsible was Nick and HE doesn't care. Serena will be glad he's gone. Nobody cares enough to come after her.

Joseph Fiennes was interviewed about the finale and said originally Fred was supposed to die in S3. I'm glad they stretched it out a bit. It's been great seeing the Waterfords beleaguered yet trying to still act as if they had power.

I didn't like June rubbing her blood off on the baby. Also her biting Fred was awful but I understand the anger.

[quote]Luke is more handsome

Agreed. I'd love a chance to sleep with OT just once.

My favourite part of this episode was absolutely the finger falling out of the package. Brilliant!

R388 Well, it was no horse head in the bed, but it’ll do.

I’m surprised it didn’t end with a snappy rendition of this?

Tuello is NOT Serena’s baby daddy. They never showed them having sex. This show hasn’t kept that sort of information hidden before, so why would they now.

Also, it is better for story line in Serena and June’s babies are BOTH fathered by Fred. That way, the two characters are connected. It shows that try as they might, they are connected.

R391 Do you miss the whole Nick as inseminator and baby daddy storyline?

This was a good read.

If I had been a handmaid and had escaped there is no way you would ever see me wearing the color coat that June is wearing in R393. Never ever that color again.

Bruce Miller, the showrunner, has stated that Serena's baby is Fred's.

However, I will happily have Tuello's. Sam Jaeger is exactly my type.

R394 If I had been a handmaidI wouldn’t have left! All that good Waterford dick.

r391 hasn't been paying attention in class. June's baby was fathered by Nick. There is no connection that Serena has with June other than June being forced to fuck Fred while Serena held her down.

Sad to see Fienes go as he's a great actor and one of those villains you just love to hate but Serena is also that villain so it will be fun to see how they deal with her in the aftermath of his death.

R394, the coat was a muted red color not the bright red of the handmaid's cloaks. It was symbolic in that it represented June's descent into darkness. I think the costume choices on this show are all intentional and serve the narrative.

I think Nichole being fathered by Fred would make an interesting twist. Serena set up June and Nick because she thought that Fred couldn't father a child and now we know that he could.

STOP BEATING ME!

Eh, not really, R399. Fred's dead and Nichole is not in Serena's custody (and never will be), so Fred being Nichole's father wouldn't further any plot at this point.

R401 Sure it would. June finally thinks she is free of Fred. However, if the child is Freds then it is another reminder that she is never really free from him.

PLEASE, PLEASE STOP BEATING ME!

R402, that gets us nothing in terms of narrative. June's story with Fred is dead as of the last 10 minutes of the season finale.

There are other villain(esses) to vanquish.

Well, speaking of who’s the father, June was probably not up on her birth control game when she was aggressively fucking her husband and showing dominance, let’s hope she’s not going to be tied down by another child with Loser Luke. And I don’t think she had time to fuck Nick at the church, though the security detail could have babysat Nichole and at least done sone work for a change.

Am I the only one who felt uncomfortable about a bunch of people killing a guy? No later what he did?

I’m not a fan of Moira but I understand that if June and the others would have told her she would have stopped it. It was disgusting.

Is Serena now out of the deal? Is she going to be in prison? Honestly I have always thought she was very much worst than Fred.

Matter*

And

Worse*

R406, how do you feel about the violence done to all the women on this show? Is it just because you aren't used to seeing women killing a man or that you've become so desensitized to watching violence against women that when it happens to a man it disgusts you because it's not something you see?

These are important questions. If seeing a man like Fred meet his demise at the hands of the women who, because of him and his policies were abused, raped, maimed, etc. was disturbing, ask yourself if you felt just as disturbed by all the violence you've sat and watched against women and were not "disgusted" by. Literally every single episode of Handmaids has shown horrifying acts towards innocent women but ONE episode where the women turn that shit around and it bothers you is pretty telling about how we as a society normalize violence against women. And I was really hoping that the finger that fell out of the envelope was his dick but I guess they couldn't show that on TV.

R406 murders the English language with his typos, then worries about FRED WATERFORD ? ?

[quote]R408 I was really hoping that the finger that fell out of the envelope was his dick but I guess they couldn't show that on TV.

That's what I thought it was, until DL enlightened me.

Why [italic]wasn't[/italic] it his dick?

PS: when June bit Fred during the mob attack she might have left teeth marks that can be traced through dental records. This is my fear.

People, the finger was symbolic, Fred took Serena’s finger so it was kind of a pun on an eye for an eye.

[quote]r406 Is Serena... going to be in prison? Honestly I have always thought she was very much worst than Fred.

How so?

Yes r411 totally symbolic.

Serena and all the commander's wives and the Aunts are far worse than then men on this show because they are women allowing this violence to be done against other women and in some cases, participating in it. They are the true "gender traitors." It really is more disturbing that women just allowed themselves to be subjugated in such ways.

I have to say, I have never been sexually abused, but my mom and aunts grew up being raped by their stepfather for years. Most of them were glad and celebrated when he died of cancer. I grew up hearing horror stories about him.

I have to say, watching that episode of June and all the other handmaids ganging up on Fred Waterford and killing him... I found it rather cathartic, a nice revenge fantasy, because sometimes, my roommate and I talked about what we'd do to the stepfather if he were still alive. So I appreciate what that episode did, and I understand the meaning it can have for sexually abused women/girls.

We have season 4 starting in the Uk on Sunday. I know I'll watch it but whenever the camera holds on her face in profile with that ugly nose, I go straight on my phone to get away from it.

The whole point of June in the novel was that she represented a typical apathetic person who was just bothered about her own little bubble. She wasn't going on demos prior to the revolution and after it she had the opportunity to kill Waterman but not the guts. She just went along with things and obsessed over Nick. Now we have this super hero Mary Sue June, one Atwood never envisaged.

Yes, R416, June of the book makes light of date rape, saying it sounded like a dessert: date rapé. For some reason, I can recall that 2 decades after reading the book.

R417, she even lets her husband kill the family cat instead of driving the cat some distance and letting her go, where she'd at least have stood some chance.

[bold]#Justice4June'sCat

I like this June better than book June. I remember reading the book and feeling underwhelmed but seeing it enacted has been brilliantly effective. I think it will be looked back on as some of the most important television ever. This and China Beach and I bet most of the people here have never even heard of China Beach.

[quote]r413 Serena and all the commander's wives and the Aunts are far worse than the men on this show because they are women allowing this violence to be done against other women and in some cases, participating in it.

FAR worse? Can't they just be equally bad?

Even that's rather a stretch, as when Serena's finger is cut off we see what happens when they rock the boat.

There is no June in the book.

For the purposes of this discussion there is. Do you want her called "I," like the second Mrs. DeWinter?

I loved China Beach! Ricki Lake was so good.

[quote]r420 I like this June better than book June. I remember reading the book and feeling underwhelmed, but seeing it enacted has been brilliantly effective.

She is more reflective in the book, and you get the sense she's beaten down by being with her third family... her last chance. She's detached and just wants to get through it. It's the affair with Nick that brings her back to life.

That quieter quality doesn't make for great screen drama, thougjh.

Book June was designed to be an Everywoman character, in contrast to the more rebellious Moira.

Serena will have her revenge. She’s on her way to reclaiming her position as a right wing media pundit, her crusade will be to capture renegade murderess June.

But what should happen is that Serena dies in a purge, because that’s what the epilogue of the book says was her fate.

I think Serena will die at some point. If she somehow escapes legal troubles and is free in Canada, i wouldn't be surprised if she gets killed. In season 2, the Canadian mom was annoyed when her daughter was talking to Serena. Some Canadians probably hate her and then add in the American refugees who want revenge on Gilead.

They'll keep Serena. We need someone from Gilead to hate.

(And can we take a moment to remember that Our Faye played Serena in the movie?)

youtube comment:

[quote]When Faye Dunaway asks, "Is this your first placement?;" I would have loved it if the handmaid had replied back, "This isn't my first time at the rodeo."

Serena will be the ultimate widow, she’s going to milk it for all it’s worth. This puts her martyr adjacent

They'll keep quiet about Fred's death.

It's really interesting reading the comments on that You Tube clip. So many women calling others ugly or stupid. Lots of Aunts who enjoy belittling other women. The irony is astounding.

r420 wish China Beach was on streaming, I saw a few episodes as a kid and always wanted to watch the whole series

R434 it was released on a DVD set several years ago. Bet you can find it online for sale. I have it and I paid about $200 for it at the time but it was a "special edition" thing.

R408 I feel equally bad for every act of violence displayed on the show. When a woman tries to educate a man is starting to feel like the equivalent to mansplainning. So chill.

You are assuming that I separate the violence against women from other kinds of violence. I just expressed my concern about everyone being so comfortable and happy with killing revenge. It doesn’t feel organic to me. I am with Moira on this one, legal actions were the only actions they should take. And blaming her or Luke about not being supportive on her plans of killing someone doesn’t make them out of touch or plain like the rest of the world seems to think.

I condemn what they did to Waterford as much as I condemn what has happened to Janine or Emily. If you think that beating a guy to death is a proper solution or punishment to his mistakes, seek for help and heal yourself.

Sorry if I don’t think we should celebrate this kind of violence, maybe I am the crazy one, but I really don’t think so. I think June has absolutely lost it and sorry for her but we shouldn’t praise that kind of violent and erratic behavior and set it up as cathartic or heroic.

R412 Serena is much more intelligent and manipulative than Fred. They are both scum but at least Fred believed that he was doing the right thing.

Serena collaborated in the creation of a whole new slavery universe so she could be a mom, Fred did it because he thought, given his background of privileged straight white male, than he was doing the right thing for everyone. Is equally shitty but at least Fred wasn’t aware of what he was doing, Serena was.

And let’s not forget that she drove her previous handmaid to suicide because she was having an affair with Fred without feeling any kind of remorse. And how she treated June? The physical and psychological violent acts towards her were much worse and continuous than those made by Fred. Also she was equally ok about raping women, she just didn’t want his husband to enjoy it.

R436, where did I say I was a woman?

Waterford actually got "Gilead Justice" or did you miss what Nick said to him right as he delivered him to June. He quoted the Bible. "God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction. You did this to yourself, Commander." All Gilead promised was that he would receive justice. So letting June and her fellow handmaids destroy him was Biblical AND Gilead justice. I don't need to seek help because something on TV show didn't bother me as much as you think it should have. Do I personally feel it was "right?" I honestly can't answer that because I've never been raped or abused in the way these fictional characters have but I will tell you that my female friends had no issue with it and the men are losing their shit because of it. Speaks volumes.

R438 Are you living in this thread?

Well yes I thought you were a woman, you type angry woman. Both my male and female friends are ok with what happened to Fred, most of DL which is predominantly male is ok with it. So I don’t think you can’t make this a gender issue.

But the world being ok with something and being so open about it, isn’t going to make me feel like that something that disgusts me shouldn’t.

The film with Vanessa Redgrave was so much better.

"So, I knew it would happen, but I’m rather glad that they kept him as long as possible because for the audience, I think it will be a huge reward. If it had come sooner, well, audiences would be deeply satisfied, but I think it’s interesting that we’ve gotten to explore this paradox of revenge. Given the length of time June has been executing that need to revenge, to bring closure—the paradox being that it inevitably doesn’t bring closure, and in fact perpetuates the issue; she becomes the monster she seeks to destroy—we needed that time to see the full departure of the high spiritual June into the low, vengeful angel.

Though you knew Fred’s death was inevitable, what was your reaction to reading those scenes?

I was thrilled that it was part of the finale. And I was super psyched not just for myself, but for the audience, knowing they’ve been so patient. There’s a reward in seeing Fred extinguished in the way he is. I mean, I’m sad to leave all of the wonderful people that I’ve grown to love very much, but I am thrilled at the same time." -Joseph Fiennes, Vanity Fair

I think it would've been more powerful if Fred had been killed by Serena, or a high-ranking Gilead person. The death scene he got seemed designed to make fraus cheer.

r440 do you mean Natasha Richardson?

I would have preferred to have Fred tried and convicted in Gilead

It was a Particicution. Fred did indeed get Gilead justice.

What I find so interesting about book Offred is that she succeeds in a way, where other women fail, but the way she succeeds is not due to any action on her part, but just by being seen as the type of woman some men might want to save. The women who actually do something, who stand up, who try (Offred's mother, Moira) come to bad ends.

I'm not sure if I can explain it correctly, but it felt like a really effective portrayal of just how horrible this type of dystopia would be; how it would succeed in making women what it thought they should be.

R439 get over it dear.

What a tacky way to lose an argument R447 😘

r447 is not r438 and for the record, there was no argument just differences of opinion.

In Season 1, June changes from passive to more aggressive. June's walking partner, Emily (OfGlen), tells her about the resistance and how some handmaids are fighting back. June responds, "I'm not that type of person". Over Season 1, her point of view changes, as she witnesses the sacrifices all the handmaids make for each other. She decides to fight for them...and for herself.

'do you mean Natasha Richardson?'

YES, sorry

[quote]May the lord open indeed.

May the lord douche first indeed.

Nichole being Fred’s daughter would be interesting since it would tie Serena and June together as their kids would be half siblings. It was also make the connection between June and Nick more tenuous – now she can justify him hanging around to Luke (and herself!) by saying he's her babydaddy, but if he's not, there's no excuse.

I'm sorry, but I don’t buy that Mark would let the Handmaid's kill Fred after saying what a valuable asset he was in the last episode. I also hated Fred's death scene, it was far too on the nose, especially the background song and the way their flashlights formed a circle was too convenient.

R453 Mark traded Fred for the lives of 20 women, most of who seemed to be Handmaids. Once he got the women Fred was given to Gilead and became their problem and he had no knowledge that Nick was turning him over to June and company.

R453 I agree, it made no sense. There is nothing 20 Marthas could offer him that Fred could not.

Who was Tuello talking to on the phone when he had Waterford arrested? He called her "ma'am". Makes me wonder if Serena Joy's "conference call" was her giving Fred up.

Well, there's 20 vaginas r495.

Mark had no idea that he was sending Fred off to his death. He said they promised him that Fred would get justice under Gilead law and that's exactly what happened.

R458 Tuello had to know. He's been learning for years about Gilead law from the refugees.

I dunno, I get why people are happy with this revenge fantasy, but I was kind of hoping this show wouldn't go down the well worn path of oafish revenge, let's kill all the bad guys in the most disgusting ways we can imagine. That's already 90 percent of American action movies. Does it have to be everything.

Well in most cases, women are told that revenge isn't worth it and they should forgive their abusers. Most women try to do that. But in reality, women aren't the ones wandering into work places or birthday parties or grocery stores shooting up their entire families after their husbands divorce or break up with them. It's always men and as a society, we accept that on some level because it's simply "what some men do." But in this case, they decided to show what would happen if women were allowed to act on their revenge fantasies and it wasn't pretty or sugar coated and it seems jarring because it's not what we are used to seeing. I'm not saying revenge killing is right or that the show couldn't have done it differently but this had an impact on the viewers and it was nice to sit with my own disgust about seeing it and yet to understand it on some weird level. And there were numerous reasons why this killing was justified opposed to some dude just being butt hurt that his girlfriend rejected him. My own father tried to kill my mom for leaving him and then I grew up with an abusive step father who I was constantly frightened of and I've had dreams of murdering them both so I guess there was something cathartic in seeing this type of justice.

June threatened Tuello at the restaurant with Laurence. He didn't have a choice. He would have lost his career.

She actually put him in a bind. He was being offered the lives of 20 women for one man and June was testing him to see if he was no different than the leaders of Gilead in valuing a man's life over 20 women. I think Tuello understood that he was being asked to make this choice and it was kind of symbolic because in this day and age if one woman accuses a man of abuse or misconduct, it means nothing but if 20 women come out and say he did it, then it's more "credible." June is smart and calculating and so is Lawrence.

Fred wasn't just "one man." He was a high-ranking commander who had a lot of valuable information. I get where the show framed it as Mark making a moral choice, but if he were oh so moral, he wouldn't have made Fred into an asset to begin with.

Mark also knows he’s got another asset, Serena, and there’s actually more potential there now that Fred is gone.

Fred had already given up the information though. All that was left was for him to go to Geneva and admit his crimes and then he would have been walking around free. I wonder if when he was being asked about the women at the start of the show and said one of them was killed if he was lying and she was amongst those returned. It was sort of implied that this was the case which would then mean that he lied under oath. I'll have to watch that part again and the part with Lawrence in the cafe because I swear Lawrence mentions that the women were very much alive.

R466 It was very subtle, but I too thought one of the women he expressed he had met and thought was dead was amongst those that returned. It will be interesting if these returnee will fall under the influence of June, maybe some also a faction of Moire, and become more of her army. Also, that we might hear their backstories and perhaps there might be a snake in the grass amongst them spying for Gilead and trying to bring June down. And where will Rita fall, she seems like she has the compassion to be like Moire, but I’m hoping she evolves to become another vessel of June’s fury and willing to do anything.

R363 I re-watched some scenes and Mark seemed disappointed when Serena said that she wanted to live with Fred when they were freed. So perhaps him helping the Handmaid's kill Fred had other motivations?

R466 He didn't lie so much as was unsure. He was asked if the woman in question was deceased and said that he "believed" she was and mentions that he thought she died in an "accident" with a commander. I think you're right that the woman Fred thought was dead was amongst the women on Joseph's list because Mark says that he thought that they were dead.

Season 5: June goes back to get Hannah. Why else did she say goodbye like she did in the season 4 finale?

R469, it does seem like the groundwork was being laid for that, and I can't imagine any other way for the series to move forward (you can't keep June in Canada and away from the antagonist - Gilead - for too long), but the idea of June being recaptured and tortured - yet again - is too tedious and painful to bear.

And yet we know - with one season left - that June has to go toe to toe with Lydia one final time, whatever that might entail.

I would like Luke to do some sacrificing here for a change quite frankly. Race isn’t an issue in the TV Gilead, he’s male, he’s relatively low profile, what’s stopping him from sneaking into Gilead and going to Colorado and attempting to rescue Hannah for a change (and in my scenario dying as a hero getting her out)? It could be like a Bay of Pigs thing where he finally motivated by June’s strength to join a militia of American escaped males who are tired of how their woman were treated and willing to do something about it.

Honestly, I want to see Janine kill Lydia. Or take her eyes.

I don't know if you guys read The Testaments, but they completely change Lydia's character and it's really disappointing.

R473 The show has changed it or the author has changed it? Lydia’s literary backstory only existed after the show started, and didn’t pick up on what it had presented.

R474 The novel gives her a different one than the show.

June is going to fight on the border according to the testaments. She goes underground. Lydia gets disgusted with all the corruption with the commanders and ultimately helps June get Hannah out of Gilead by documenting all the corruption and sending it to Canada through the pearl girls. Nichole goes to Gilead and Lydia implants the most damaging info in Nichole's arm. Nichole and Hannah (who is now an aunt) go back to Canada together. It is still years away because Nichole is 16 years old and Hannah is in her 20s. This series may go on for several more seasons.

Please put *Spoilers* in for Testaments stuff

I love that Mark and Serena have a thing. I also think he could be the father.

This show is #1 streaming, of course they’ll stretch it out!

June isn’t in The Testaments.

So I just watched episode 1 in the UK and damn if they didn't have a grim lingering close up on June's profile for about a minute near the end where she was talking to the killer 14 year old. The nose is still bad and her jawline is saggy now too, which it hasn't always been. She looks about 55.

I thought the actress playing June looked heavier the last episode

I hope they show Serena's reaction when she finds out Fred was killed

R480 she is mentioned in the testaments but I think the testaments was written to keep the show going. They will probably show June continuing to fight. The Handmaids tale show is nothing like the book after season 1 and I have a feeling that the Testaments will be the same. They will add a lot to it. the Testaments is very vague just like the Handmaids tale was. The producer said he will keep going as long as Elizabeth Moss wants to keep it going. I hope they don't go on for another five seasons.

I for one love the show

[quote] The Handmaids tale show is nothing like the book after season 1

Yep. In fact, it's barely anything like the book after the first three episodes of season 1, with a few exceptions.

I really hope they don't drag it out too much further. But it is American TV and $$s always beat out good storytelling, it seems.

R486 it isn’t on TV in the US, it’s a streaming show.

^It's an American produced show.

R488 But it’s on a streaming platform that doesn’t rely on having commercials that support its production and its ability to stay on air. In the United States this would never be on commercial TV and that is what makes its existence important. In a places like England and with the BBC sure, it might happen, but this isn’t even something PBS would have put on.

I’m thankful that a streaming platform has taken it on, and it had the luck of being a premier breakthrough show for a outlying streamer at the time, And it was rewarded handsomely at first and despite the lack of continued rewards they have chosen to maintain it. Not all of us want to watch the 100 iteration of SVU or the Khardasians, some of us want interesting, literate, intelligent, meaningful series to watch. And I haven’t seen anything outside of a few shows like Mad Men or the Alienist, and those were on premium cable and not the primary networks that make up the foundation of American TV.

I don't disagree with interesting, literate, intelligent and meaningful but this show isn't that anymore. It's Friday the Thirteenth in Helmut Lang.

[quote]It's Friday the Thirteenth in Helmut Lang.

I am not familiar with that designer.

He was the or one of the original minimalists.

[quote] I thought the actress playing June looked heavier the last episode

She has looked heavier the whole season!

R493 Well, when she pulled that in Mad Men it was because she was unknowingly pregnant. I think they are setting her up to have gotten pregnant by Luke.

So she's just going to abandon her and Nick's child and leave her with Luke to take care of her?

I think she knows that her relationship with Luke is over and that he might be hesitant to let her around the baby after what happened. I think her relationship with Moira will change, too. June would never abandon her baby but she's also the type that would go confess what she did. She'll likely be tried in Canada next season but we shall see. Mark may help her get out of it somehow but June is about justice and she would totally be willing to go to prison with no remorse over killing Waterford.

I think June is going to wear Fred's severed face as a mask and pretend to be him back in Gilead.

r497

sounds like a great idea

I hate saying this.. but Moss is not pretty enough for the role. There is something striking about her, but she’s severe looking. Even though she’s a good actress, I think it was a miscast. I felt the same way about Steve Buscemi in Boardwalk Empire, great character actor but shouldn’t have been the lead.

June is supposed to be the "every woman." So casting someone prettier would have made zero sense, even though I think Moss is really pretty at times. But I do remember how jarring the first episode was to see an actress completely sans makeup. Even I was like, WTF?

In defence of Moss, she got fatter like a lot of Americans during this pandemic. I'm not a fan of hers in this though.

She would be tolerable if she lost weight and got a nose job, but as it is she has an ugly, witch like profile more suited to an evil character. She isn't 'Everywoman Plain', she's grim looking. It's more noticeable because every other actress has neat, regular features - Serena, Mrs Keyes, Janine etc.

Chaka Khan wasn’t that attractive either.

I was and am a huge Mad Men fan and I always thought somebody else would have been better as Peggy and I feel the same for June. Elizabeth Moss is a good actress but I find her unlikable.

I assumed Nick had been ordered to meet Fred and then ensure he never made it into Gilead - he and Commander Lawrence probably lobbied for that outcome. In any case, I enjoyed the ending and I was pleased to see Emily taking part too. Moira and dweeby Luke can shut the fuck up.

June won't be in any legal trouble in Canada as the Canadian authorities have no idea what happened after Fred was handed over at the border.

I don't buy the idea that Canada could just weasel out of its agreement with Fred after he turned states' witness and testified (the excuse was some hidden clause in the agreement).

R506 I think it was the US government he made the deal with.

It's weird how USA was never good at it or even had one good player that would be known world wide. USA has 331 mil people. I come from Croatia that has 4 mil. So there's probably more people in US that play football than there are people in my country. Yet, we are always in the top of world. And US female team is the best in the world. So how come men suck so much? (no pun intended)

GILEAD SOCCER ROCKS!

Megan Rapinoe is a gender traitor!!

Wait, Gilead still participates in the Olympics? Are there no countries, like BENELUX, who threaten to boycott on behalf of Americans if Gilead comes?

SPOILER

R480 June is mentioned twice in the Testaments. In one scene towards the end of the book she is reunited with Hannah and Nicole but she’s not named. In a later chapter of the book her tapes are discussed and she is mentioned by name.

R508’s lost his way.

Under his VAR.

Gilead sends the Martha's to compete in sports such as butter churning, bed making and floor mopping. The Aunts always beat them in their games of torture, handmaid chasing and whipping of the unclean. They are, after all, the women who would be teaching PE if they weren't Aunts. I can totally picture Aunt Lydia coaching softball with a spunky, dyke do with frosted tips.

Forget the fucking Marthas and Aunts.

I only wanna watch the Handmaids' fiercely fought lay-back-and-take-it-like-a-christian competitions.

Imagine a television show, if you will, where all the men who've been scolded and mocked by their TV commercial wives, where many have been harangued, badgered and nagged their entire lives, where there was no recourse for them to be the ones to stay at home and make a living on ETSY, where they were expected to be the beasts of burden no matter how "equal" the sexes were, where news reports of their penile mutilation was stoked and mocked throughout the zeitgeist, where after being told in media and society they're somehow irrelevant if they're bald, or short or that they're oafs and dotards... where we see all these things come together in one miserable, campy depiction in an outlandish, wallowing, hate-baiting way for three or more years............imagine all those guys getting together, beating, mutilating and hanging the corpse of an antagonist female while "hopeful" music soars in the background, and a golden-beaming sun rises over our male protagonist, smeared in blood from he and his horde's fresh kill.....

Imagine that, and then imagine people from media observers to actors, fans and critics cheering in elation for the brutal revenge scene.

Misandrist revenge torture porn? Yep. I'd say it fits this show perfect.y.

[quote] She would be tolerable if she lost weight and got a nose job, but as it is she has an ugly, witch like profile more suited to an evil character. She isn't 'Everywoman Plain', she's grim looking. It's more noticeable because every other actress has neat, regular features - Serena, Mrs Keyes, Janine etc.

Moss been acting since she was a child and I'm kind of surprised she didn't get a nose job or another cosmetic procedure. I bet at least one person probably told her as a teen or possibly younger to get plastic surgery work done on her face.

I agree she's not easy to look at, but I kinda admire her self-confidence for not having plastic surgery, especially growing up in LA and acting from a young age.

Her Scientology, however, is reprehensible.

Once Handmaid is done she'll probably try to get romantic leads and fail miserably. Perhaps then she'll make some excuse about not being able to breathe out of one nostril and have a 'medically necessary' nose job to make her nose a little smaller and straighter.