Janet Mock has epic meltdown at Pose premiere

If you are around when there's a meltdown by Janet Mock, duck!

A transexual who is pissed and having a public meltdown!?! Now I *have* seen everything!

So brave!

Stunning and brave, R3.

Bravely stunning and stunningly brave.

r4 I'm so sorry, i promise i'm not transphobic STUNNING AND BRAVE! STUNNING AND BRAVE!!!

[quote]The room at Jazz at Lincoln Center fell completely silent as Mock shouted: “F–k Hollywood … Does this make you uncomfortable? It should. It should make you f–king shake in your motherf–king boots. This is speaking truth. This is what ‘Pose’ is.”

[quote]“It’s a show, but it means so much to everyone to ‘ensure that we enable black and brown trans women to make it’ because that sounds good,” she said sarcastically. “It makes you comfortable to talk like that because then I don’t scare you into facing the f–king truth. You all have stomped on us.”

This is someone who makes $40,000 a week. Please, stomp on ME like that.

Janet sure goes a long way to dispelling the image of famous Ts as mentally unwell, perpetually angry attention whores!

She’s gone from Redefining Realness to Redefining Rapid Cycling

This is what RM gets for pandering to T.

Cancel the damn show and go back to normal shit.

Is she drunk?

Positioning herself for some profitable post-Pose grifting.

So she’s a mock female?

Jealous she gets to fuck Angel Curiel, he's a sexy piece of ass

Do NOT mock "La Mock," muffukkkahs!

Mental illness right there, folks.

I keep saying it: It will never be enough. Never.

[quote]Mental illness right there, folks.

But nobody in the media will ever say so -- rather, they'll lionize her for her "truth-telling" and the "incredible grace she manifested in fighting back against the marginalization of trans people even in the supposed left-wing bastion of Hollywood."

lmao how much did the show pay a publicist to write that speech? Pure PR if ever I heard it.

An unhinged transgender? Well, I never!

going out with a bang!

Why would anyone hire these self-important cunts? They ALWAYS cause trouble and are never grateful for an opportunity. They always MUST be the victim in any situation.

The first season of POSE was watchable. The second season was a travesty. Which part was Ms. Mock responsible for?

r14 he looks FTM.

[quote]"This makes you uncomfortable?"

So daring! So original! Making people feel uncomfortable is her primary job!

r23 probably the part where the actors all got immensely inflated egos and started dictating how they wanted their characters to evolve. That's always the death-knell for a show.

[quote]There is no better show than Pose to usher the industry into a cautious new normal at this point in the pandemic. It is a series about survival, about the power of family and community, and about confronting the harsh realities that too often get overlooked, because it’s easier or makes people more comfortable.

Remember when shows were entertaining?

In my youth I knew plenty of trannies and with the exception of a few crazy ones, most were totally cool people . When did trannies turn into loons ?

looks like her ENTIRE FUCKING CAREER has been provided to her by Ryan Murphy, she should be thanking him, not reprimanding him. She's an entitled brat, and I suspect drugs must be fueling her ridiculous self sabotage

[quote] Pure PR if ever I heard it.

Ma'am that was the worst thing she could have done. She's going to be branded as difficult now.

Openly discussing your salary at an event, trashing the writing on the show for the first couple of episodes written by Ryan Murphy and fucking someone from the crew of a show you worked on?

That just opens up all kinds of problems.

What is that all about, R25? I've noticed that a lot in the whole progressive, woke, whatever talk over the past few years.

I get going through discomfort in a personal way in order to make progress in your personal life, but why are there all of these people who feel it's their job to inflict discomfort on others? No one wants that.

[quote]probably the part where the actors all got immensely inflated egos and started dictating how they wanted their characters to evolve. That's always the death-knell for a show.

Agree to a point. REAL actors sometimes have very good ideas about their characters and the feedback can really help the writers and the show evolve. However, in this case the likelihood is "wokeness" prevented the showrunner from rejecting shitty ideas that came from "actors" whose main qualification was not their ablity to act but their proximity of their own personalities to the character.

Years of aggressive hormone therapy has scrambled Mr. Mock's brains. I pray he finds some semblance of peace in his sad, final days.

r28 when it became a fad for attention-seeking people.

BITCH!

Sounds like Charles needs to change his tampon.

r31 because they have a lot of aggression to get out and they don't want to play "nice" as that involves skill, tact, and patience. They want everything all at once, now. It's basically similar to a toddler throwing a tantrum. A big part of it is generational, and "activism" seriously amplifies those qualities as important. Everyone and everything is expected to be an "activist" now or furthering the progress of some activism, for whatever intersectional qualities you might possess. If you're black, you MUST be a black activist. If you're a woman, you must be a feminist activist (or working to get trans women treated as such). If you're trans, you MUST be a trans activist. And even more if you have more than one intersectional trait.

There is no attention given to people who work behind the scenes. They want the attention from being in people's faces and making them uncomfortable. It's not about the result - it's about the ego.

Trannies became problematic once same sex marriage was introduced. They took that as a cue for full tranny independence.

[quote]Ma'am that was the worst thing she could have done. She's going to be branded as difficult now.

Agreed and it would be a fair assessment. Her only employer seems to be Ryan Murphy. I hope he has the balls and the self respect to put some space between his production company and this out of control toddler

Sad. She could have been effective and inspiring but instead she used her time in the spotlight to talk about herself and be crazy. Drugs but will probably be labeled “exhaustion”

Kevin Fallon, the author of that piece, could not have licked her fake twat more if he tried.

She sounded unhinged and on drugs. And if not on drugs, then I feel sorry for her boyfriend.

[quote]“When a talent asks you for a suite, you give them a suite because they need it,” she said. She singled out cast members Hailie Sahar, Dominique Jackson, Angelica Ross, and Mj Rodriguez, toasting their talent and shaming everyone who undervalued or underestimated them because they were pretty or inexperienced.

What if the "talent" asks for more than 40,000 per episode? How about a private jet? Will they get it ? How about acting lessons?

What a deluded tantrum

[quote]Her only employer seems to be Ryan Murphy.

In 2019, she signed a three-year multimillion-dollar pact with Netflix, giving the streaming giant exclusive rights to her TV series and a first-look option on feature film projects.

AFAIK, nothing has yet come of this deal.

[quote]However, in this case the likelihood is "wokeness" prevented the showrunner from rejecting shitty ideas that came from "actors" whose main qualification was not their ablity to act but their proximity of their own personalities to the character.

It's a show about trans people. The show is already "woke."

As for the writing, it's actually good when a writer on a show recognizes that they don't have a good enough grip on a character's lived experience so they bring in other people to help them that do. That applies to any subject.

And if Steven Canals refused to reject their ideas then that has nothing to do with the actors, that's on him for not being an experienced showrunner.

[quote]shaming everyone who undervalued or underestimated them because they were pretty or inexperienced.

Most likely the "shaming" was basic direction to make their performances palatable.

Stupid bitch

[quote]And if Steven Canals refused to reject their ideas then that has nothing to do with the actors, that's on him for not being an experienced showrunner.

Yeah, that was my point.

r44 "lived experience" does not make one into a good writer, nor does it mean the person will be able to identify and translate personal experiences into a larger script. It also does not trump experts or science.

Janet literally just incinerated her career. She will never be hired for anything again.

Miss Ryan Murphy will freeze her out to such a level, she'll think she lives in Antarctica.

Mock and husband got divorced not long after marrying.

I have to wonder about the husband. Allegedly Mock didn't come out as trans until the relationship was entrenched, but I have to wonder if the husband always knew and if he was a chaser. He was too hot for a real woman who looks like Mock, never mind a "woman" who can't have children and whose mere existence would embarrass any legitimate straight man.

I demand additional compensation and damages from Kmart for the 2 months I worked there as a woefully underpaid stockboy in summer 1979! IT WAS LITERAL SLAVE WAGE RAPE and I still have PTSD!

She's toast, purse sauna non grotta.

The sycophantic tone and perspective of the Beast article was embarrassing and did Mock no favors.

I am sure Mock is getting lots of "support" on twitter. Of course, that only serves to feed her delusions and when she stops getting hired, SJW likes and clicks will be cold comfort

[quote]"lived experience"

as opposed to 'nonlived experience', like the undead?

When did wokesterism manage to create a whole new language with frankenphrases for commonly used expressions like 'personal experience' (and mind you, 'personal experience' is a tautology itself)

Let's all wave goodbye to Auntie Janet's career!

[quote] Openly discussing your salary at an event, trashing the writing on the show for the first couple of episodes written by Ryan Murphy and fucking someone from the crew of a show you worked on?

Chiiile… And she thinks the opportunities and money are just going to flood in now?

R55 And Pose isn’t based on experience (lived or otherwise) anyway, it’s pure wish fulfilment.

Which is fine, it’s not a documentary and I thought the first season at least was entertaining. But let’s not pretend it has anything more than a passing resemblance to reality.

In order to steal attention away from Billy Porter, you have to go BIG!

Although I tend towards the “let’s-include-everyone” in the LGBTQ movement/community way of thinking, I also have to say that I have thought from the start that “Pose” had some of the most embarrassingly bad acting on it, and especially from the trans actors (and while Billy Porter has been good elsewhere, I thought his characterization on this show came from the flared nostril School of expression—I’ve seen less indicating in a community theatre production of “And Miss Reardon Drinks a Little”), none of whom seemed to have experience, training, or hint of natural talent for inhabiting a character. There are some wonderful trans actors, but they are not excellent BECAUSE they are trans—they are good actors whose trans identity is part of who they are and which they may draw on as actors (or may not), as all actors bring their lives as part of the acting process.

She'll be out sucking dick for beer money down by the West Side Highway this time next year if she doesn't watch herself.

This reminds me of the collapse of TRANSPARENT (a show I liked very much, for the most part) that occurred after allegations of actor Jeffrey Tambor's sexual harassment and abuse as well as trans representation issues. Infighting galore.

Show creator Jill Soloway now identifies as Joey Soloway (pronouns: they/them), BTW.

She must not have known that Ryan Murphy has his Sun, Moon, and Ascendant in Scorpio, aka “a triple threat.”

Mock…

So let me understand this, we watch entire seasons of RPDR just to see all the contestants compete for a $100,00 prize, and she's pissed that she's "only" getting $40k per episode of Pose?

Miss Murphy right now.......

I pictured this, R65.

Murphy will have to pick another muse for his cocktail of horniness, wokeness and drama.

Who is she?

Now she's getting called out as a predator.

Get the popcorn.

TRANSWOMAN OF COLOR: Has public meltdown

WOKE TWITTER: “Thank you for speaking truth to power!”

Women routinely complain about not being paid 'what they're worth'. Instead of throwing a tantrum he should feel validated.

Let's hire her!

Anti-trans sentiment is being censored. I’m sorry, but that’s a dangerous precedent. Gender identity disorder is real. A cat is not a dog no matter what it wants to think. Trans people have got to face the sad, frustrating, disappointing truth that their gender is fixed from birth.

[quote]Now she's getting called out as a predator.

I've been seeing tweets along that line and people writing that they hope Angel is okay. Why is the assumption that Janet was abusing her power when maybe he was fucking her so that his useless character could stay on the show. Not that I think either one were using each other and it was a genuine relationship, people are only bringing it up because he's 25 and for some reason there are a lot of people who are acting like being 25 is the equivalent to being 5 years old.

Also, some are tweeting that Janet cheated on him with her boss. When Mock says "someone from the crew" I am taking it to mean below-the-line, not someone higher up the totem pole.

She’s a straight up bitch.

I saw her at a book industry event and she oozed disdain for everyone around her.

Fucking a crew member, yeah it happens but a producer should know better. He’s lucky the show is over because otherwise there’d be an HR investigation.

[quote]“When a talent asks you for a suite, you give them a suite because they need it,”

So Ryan booked her a room, instead of a suite, and this is her revenge? And no-one "needs" a suite. These people really do think they're utterly special and unique and the only reason they're not global megastars is because they're being held back by "the man" or "the system" don't they?

Visit from her Aunt Flo-yd.

'I’m hurting y’all. I see injustice and it hurts me inside.” Mock revealed she was only paid $40,000 an episode, adding: “Do you know who the fuck I am?”'

The self-importance of this clown, it's breathtaking. This is what career suicide looks like.

She’s an idiot.

.....

She acts like Pose is a #1 show or something. Go ahead - shit where you eat.

No matter what the outcome, she will be a victim. Let's say, in fantasy world, it works and she gets a 100% increase to $80K an episode - then she'll say she had to FIGHT for EVERYTHING and that it still is not enough.

People are becoming tired of being bullied by trans - gays, lesbians, women. Their requirements to be front and center is insulting and infuriating.

She's a producer with no previous experience. She's been handed over this career and she shits all over it.

California needs a Gpvernor.

For being a writer, producer and occasional director on that show 40k an episode is very low, even for a basic cable show. She needed to take that fight to her agency, not to those at the S3 premiere.

“Why am I making $40,000 a motherfucking episode? Huh? Do you know who the fuck I am? Do you know what I fucking mean? Huh? I am angry."

Well - we know you are replaceable and not as fucking unique as you think.

She knew what she would be making. What a cunt. Agree to the $40,000 and then bitch about it. Its not like she’s a household name. Far from it.

I would like to know how much she thinks is appropriate for such a small show with low ratings (=low ad revenue). Did she talk to Shonda Rimes or something? Cuz she's no Shonda Rimes, who actually created and wrote several series.

Sometimes your 'pain and anger' is all in your head and no one is doing you wrong. You're bringing your life pain into something that doesn't deserve it.

[quote] And no-one "needs" a suite.

Oh my. You must know nothing then of fabulous tranny divas!

Like her idol and role model Dominique Devereaux, Janet Mock does not sleep IN her clothes, nor does she sleep WITH them!

She REQUIRES one bedroom for her wardrobe, and one for herself!

Well, Mock her.

Even the person writing the article had to tell us how brave she was!

[quote] It was a [bold]brave,[/bold] unexpected speech—one that certainly caught its audience by surprise, all of whom were nervously at an event for the first time in over a year and rendered breathless and, occasionally, uneasy by Mock’s passion and candor.

[quote] Why am I making $40,000 a motherfucking episode? Huh? Do you know who the fuck I am? Do you know what I fucking mean? Huh?

Actually, I have no idea whatsoever who she is, nor what she fucking means.

[quote]Why am I making $40,000 a motherfucking episode? Huh? Do you know who the fuck I am? Do you know what I fucking mean? Huh?

Delusions of grandeur

Isn't this show over? Since when to people get more money for work done? She got the most she was able to contract. Just like everyone else. She can fuck off now.

Intriguingly, the NYTimes ALSO did a piece on her today, and you would think from reading THIS piece (no surprise from the NYRT in 2021) that she's Mohandas Gandhi, Audrey Hepburn, and Virginia Woolf rolled into one!

STUNNING AND BRAVE!

eww she/he is gross.

do you know who the fuck i am?

yeah someone that if you don’t watch pose, don’t know who the fuck you are.

It will all be explained in her new book, DISS-POSE-ABLE. Coming this fall from Simone & Shyster.

She has terrible skin. She keeps improving her nose, I will say.

Clearly, the author of the article at OP has no hesitation telling us where HE stands:

[quote] It’s the kind of scorched-earth truth-telling that you might hear the executives and industry figures Mock called out publicly praise for its honesty in pursuit of change. Then you wonder what they actually are going to say about it, or about Mock, behind closed doors. Historically, that’s what happens when marginalized people demand their worth.

[quote] At the very least, we can ask for some bravery from these people with the suits, the purse strings, and the power: This time don’t do the two-faced whispering. This time listen, process, and act.

So the man who became a woman and into a lower paygrade is now bitching because "she" doesn't get paid as much as a man?

LISTEN, PROCESS, AND ACT, R99!!!!!

Harumph. Turns out dicks ARE worth something.

R99 got it right.

[quote]n 2019, she signed a three-year multimillion-dollar pact with Netflix, giving the streaming giant exclusive rights to her TV series and a first-look option on feature film projects.

In 2018 Ryan Murphy signed a 300 million dollar deal with Netflix. Gee, I wonder if Netflix threw La Mock this relatively minor, boilerplate deal because of her proximity to her mentor, the aforementioned Ryan Murphy.

So far her tantrums, entitlement and arrogance have eclipsed whatever talents she might possess.

I hope Murphy looks for talent to mentor and offer a leg up rather than gimmicky attitudinal broads with more balls that brains.

I can't stand Ryan Murphy but this show would NEVER have happened without him. Didn't they even say the show was rejected by almost everyone?

She's an ungrateful bitch who got attention and praise for being the first trans woman of color to write and direct a television episode

Maybe she was coked up but making her demands from the podium where everyone would have to think on their feet she knew what she was doing.

She just fucked herself of getting more jobs from Murphy UNLESS he panders to her. I hope he doesn't. This is bullying.

And didn't she say about Angel "I get what's mine?" So he's a piece of meat?

Stunningly trans, bravely trans.

Here is the unspoken thing about human nature in regards to her criticism of people involved with Pose that self-congratulate: That's human nature. We're selfish. We, as people, rarely do things selflessly for people we intimately do not know.

Also, no one is talking about how she's the EP and she was dating an actor. Isn't that a power dynamic that's fucked up?

[R106] and is sexually involved with a crew member

People are calling her out for that r106.

See r69.

It's so strange of her to do this as POSE moves into its final season, and all the shooting is done. She cannot be fired, I guess; but she also cannot get the raise she seems to be insisting upon.

It's like she's consciously trying to brand herself publicly as difficult and melodramatic.

rehab followed by groveling in 3...2...1...

I see she's an executive producer and writer for Murphy's Jeffrey Dahmer series. Murphy needs to hire strong writers for his series like Tom Rob Smith, who wrote all of the episodes for the Versace/Cunanan series. Instead, he's attached himself to no-talents like Mock just so he'll get slurpy blowjobs from GLAAD, The Trevor Project, Hollywood Reporter, et al.

Ass pats on twitter aren’t going to pay the bills. Who is going to want to put up with that, plus admitting that she’s fucking a crew member not to mention talent as a show runner makes her a huge liability. It was a low rated niche show that would’ve worked better as a miniseries.

The ads for season 3 are non-stop on YouTube. Never seen the show and don't plan to ever watch it. Is it even good? It has an 8.6 on IMDB but I imagine that number is inflated with "stunning and brave" people and their supporters spamming the reviews.

R112 - that's very true. She fucked talent and a crew member. That's not acceptable workplace behavior.

Plastic surgery has given these nut jobs undue credibility as “women.”

Indya Moore is ranting again.

This is one of her most hilarious tweets. Is it parody?

So, now Pose is profiting off black tranny pain??? Despite giving black trans actresses jobs during a pandemic?

She had her boyfriend stand up and right there, in front of the crowd, she announced that she had cheated on him. She then cried and carried on about how much she wanted to stay together with him. This is drugs/nervous breakdown/“hospitalized due to exhaustion” stuff. Oh, and “Good Morning America” immediately canceled her previously-scheduled appearance.

"I wouldn't want to put myself in a position of 'capitalizing on your pain,' so we won't be working together, but good luck."

She also said she was going to dump but then decided no. She's fucked up and abusive.

And sadly, too many people who are enabling her behaviour and painting Ryan Murphy as a villain.

He owes NOTHING to them. He gave them a platform. They're probably pissed that nobody is calling them to work with them.

[quote]He owes NOTHING to them. He gave them a platform. They're probably pissed that nobody is calling them to work with them.

It's a real T thing to go after successful gays and lesbians who would otherwise be sympathetic to their cause. They've tried it with RuPaul, Martina, and any number of "cis white gays."

The first season got great reviews R113, but the second season went off the rails and while the reviews weren’t awful they were lukewarm.

Billy porter will continue to work but the rest of them will mercifully fade into oblivion after the social justice gravy train dries up.

Mock standing next to her boyfriend really amplifies that she’s trans with the big head and male features that never went away.

Is there a link to her speech and breakdown?

Where can I find it?

R1 did somebody say mock duck?

Can someone explain to me why trans women feel they are being targeted with pay inequality? It's not a secret that women are paid less than men, a lot less in some cases. So where are the trans women voices for equal pay for women?

Also there are different contracts and pay scales depending on the type of show you are doing. There is an HBO rate, a cable rate, a cable rate for a limited series (mini series), a cable rate for episodic, network tv rate etc. There are even different rates depending on what season a show is in, if you are doing a first year episodic network show your rates are based on the previous years pay rate.

What Janet is making is probably standard for a show airing on the platform Pose is airing on.

[quote]as opposed to 'nonlived experience', like the undead?

The phrase, "lived experience" has been around for decades, R55. I believe it actually originated in Germany in the 1700s and has been in use here since the 60s. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse, tedious or just plain stupid.

You're saying more about yourself than me, right now. I'm sorry you didn't do a whole lot of reading back in college.

[quote]And Pose isn’t based on experience (lived or otherwise) anyway, it’s pure wish fulfilment.

No, the point is: I wouldn't want a straight man writing about gays, I wouldn't want a woman writing about gay men. If you're writing a show about people running a zoo then hire someone who knows something about zoos. Hire the fucking source if you can, even if it's just for an episode or to consult.

[quote]She must not have known that Ryan Murphy has his Sun, Moon, and Ascendant in Scorpio, aka “a triple threat.”

As multiple people have said here for years: Ryan Murphy isn't a bad person (they frequently add in cold, distant, almost sexual too) but you absolutely do not want to piss him off. He will 100% never forget it.

I've also never forgotten this story from his ex. Janet Mock is toast.

I don't know if that story is supposed to be true but I don't know how you can register a moment of hesitation on your lovers face while you are in the ocean being dragged by a riptide and they are up on the shore.

I guess Condon only needs his glasses for reading, he can see facial expressions perfectly fine from a distance.

R126, it was from an interview with Bill Condon in a profile about Murphy for The New Yorker.

Check out Janet's IMDB credits before Pose directing. Nice that she got a gig and made it work. Nice that she stepped into a job and nailed it and was invited back for more work. $40K per episode is pretty decent money.

Again: Ryan Murphy, who hired these people for well-compensated jobs, is the evil one; and all of Pose's success is due to their "trauma."

Everything is pain. Everything is trauma. And everyone who gave them a break is at fault.

[quote] The phrase, "lived experience" has been around for decades, [R55]. I believe it actually originated in Germany in the 1700s and has been in use here since the 60s. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse, tedious or just plain stupid.

[quote] You're saying more about yourself than me, right now. I'm sorry you didn't do a whole lot of reading back in college.

My, my my!

Listen to Miss Princess Pedantry throw shade!

Who does this deranged shvartze trannie think THEY is?

I wondered when Indya Moore was going to say something r116.

40k is quite decent money for a show that gets fewer than a million viewers an episode. Does she thinks she's on Big Bang Theory or something?

On the other hand, because they do so few episodes per season, in sum it's really not that much money.

Wow, she must be fun to work with.

It’s baffling to me that people keep talking about how Murphy is profiting off their stories. NO ONE is watching this show. I think the first season was the lowest rated on television. It only got a second season to avoid exactly this bullshit and that’s still not enough. Hopefully Hollywood is starting to come around that there isn’t a tit big enough in the world for these people.

Self-sabotage on a grand scale like this is hallmark of borderline personality disorder. This is very ill and damaged individual. And it’s fucking insulting to the rest of us that we get lumped in with her and she’s this role model for LGBTIAJFIRIRNNEEIRK69+ experiences.

Her experience does not speak for mine or most people’s. In fact, I would cross the street to avoid any experience with this sick, sad individual.

You can expect to see Ryan Murphy and his troop shore up the relationship and cut ties as best as possible and prepared to let journalists review the legal side of negotiations. She’s unstable and probably just received a very terse letter from Murphy’s lawyers reminding her of the binding clauses in her contracts to shut her up.

To be clear, the entire series was ripped from themes brought up in “Paris Is Burning”. If anyone should be mad, it should be the subjects that are still alive for cashing in on their tragedies. I very much doubt any of Pose’s actors were selling themselves on the street.

He seems tiresome.

No wonder the show is ending. Too many fucking egos on this show.

Ryan Jamaal Swain, Indya Moore, Angelica Ross, and now Mock. They're so exhausting, always whining However, Mock was mostly likable and professional up until this meltdown. Maybe she's always been like this and was just hiding it.

Billy Porter can be over the top but he does seem grateful and was appreciative of Murphy in one of his award speeches. Say what you will about Porter but he's a professional.

POSE is NOT a hot show anymore. Nobody watches it because it's pretty awful.

This is not the place to ask for a raise, fool!

My prediction is that a large percentage of the onslaught of woke entertainment coming our way will not find an audience, and will crash and burn.

Will "Woke = Broke" next year?

More Billy Porter. Less of these unstable cunts.

Delusions of grandeur... “profiting off their pain and labour”, “obsessed with their bodies...”, “killing them”... it’s like “Who???” Fuck I guess their most important/most popular/our teachers and leaders hah?- fuuuck this shit! If I saw one I’d turn around and go the other way

R138 He is an utterly tiresome cunt.

[quote]Allegedly Mock didn't come out as trans until the relationship was entrenched...

WHAT BULLSHIT IS THIS?

The husband didn't know the person he was fucking was a tranny? Child that is too bizarre to even pretend to believe!

Did Ms. Mock, as R136 pointed, give credit to the true legends, who fought the real fight and suffered the true horrors of the war: the participants of “The Queen” and, in particular, “Paris is Burning”?

Sincerely curious.

[quote] 40k is quite decent money for a show that gets fewer than a million viewers an episode. Does she thinks she's on Big Bang Theory or something?

It is harder to gauge true viewership with all the streaming platforms. Both seasons of "Pose" stream on Netflix so its actual viewing audience is probably multiples of its cable network viewership. Someone is profiting from that.

Clearly they all wanted more money. The trans actors don't have many prospects in TV or film beyond this show. And the show itself is expensive because they license a lot of music.

"Angel B. C. Is a beautiful person, and is deserving of so much undue respect", according to Indya Moore at R116.

It’s easy to demand in hindsight but an actor “Profiting” from a FLEDGLING show like Pose is set by contracts and negotiations based on risk, proven track records and reevaluating when the next season arrives- how popular the previous one was. There’s no emotion, prejudice or favors provided by the bean counters at a network, only hard numbers and viewership. We’ve reached critical mass where series like “Pose” could be easily overshadowed by a better YouTube produced series which is why Ryan brought Sandra and Patti onboard. NONE of the nonprofessional actors were that good and were very well compensated at the time of shooting in commensurate with experience. People like Issa Rae slaved on YouTube for YEARS before getting a similar break…

Driving up the price of programming by demanding higher wages would diminish other emerging shows of the future and cut risky budget choices and is LITERAL VIOLENCE!

Did you really believe the "I'm such a beautiful, sophisticated, charming and thoughtful real woman" act, r138. It's not possible for someone who does that to their body not to have multiple mental problems.

Ms. Mock…

Tick. Tock.

Woo chile!

[quote]There’s no emotion, prejudice or favors provided by the bean counters at a network, only hard numbers and viewership.

That's an assumption on your part, though. Dave Chappelle appealed to Netflix's emotion and got residuals on his show when contractually he wasn't owed any, for instance. Netflix renewed the One Day at a Time reboot not because it was profitable but because fans were upset.

A lot of that is PR, of course, which translates to financial benefits, but appealing to emotion/prejudice is a HUGE part of production for any company. If they decide it'll be more advantageous to listen to Mock's criticisms and respond in her favor, they'll do it.

Even if they give Mock the earth, moon and stars r151, he will never be satisfied.

R152 I see what you did tHEre.

I think some of the Pose stars let fame and success get into their heads. I remember one of them complainning about not being nominated to an Emmy because you know representation (there were two trans women nominated anyway).

Pose is a very niche show, maybe trans is the trend of the moment but that never last. The truth is a trans character or a trans storyline can be interesting but don't bring ratings to a show.

And while you see Bryan Michael Smith who is in a hit show trying to be one more of the cast, some of the Pose stars think they are genuinely stars who bring attention to their show. It's pretty common the salary won't be that big during the first seasons and most of these actors/actress didn't get any other big roles on their curriculum.

And of course there's the fact that it was Billy Porter the one who got more attention.

But when you are new in the business (or a small name) and rely on Ryan Murphy getting you roles you should known when you complain about something, and the premier of the last season of your show is not the right moment

I've worked in IT/Marketing for a couple decades now. I'm gay myself, and have worked others in the LGBT community as well, some of whom were transgendered women and men. The conference table or a Zoom meeting isn't the moment to stop everyone from they're trying to do/discuss for you to show off your outfit and makeup and wig.

You know, I see trannies like Blaire White and think, “Trannies can be sane and great!” Then I see people like Janet Mock acting this way and think, “Wow, trannies are really insane and entitled.” Who does she think she is?

Does it still have a lady cock?

[quote]  I very much doubt any of Pose’s actors were selling themselves on the street.

It was mentioned in that NYT article that Mock was a hooker in her teens. I'm not an expert by any means but it still seems trans women are more prone to whore than practically any other group.

Quelle surprise, r158.

Practically all of them have panhandled on the Internet to get money for "top surgery" and "living expenses" because they were (insert questionable tragic experience here) which is always due to them "living their truth" rather than the fact they have significant mental problems.

You can't throw a stone without hitting a GoFundMe trying to guilt people into paying for them.

At least when you're whoring in person the other party gets something for their money.

[quote]It’s easy to demand in hindsight but an actor “Profiting” from a FLEDGLING show like Pose is set by contracts and negotiations based on risk, proven track records and reevaluating when the next season arrives- how popular the previous one was. There’s no emotion, prejudice or favors provided by the bean counters at a network, only hard numbers and viewership.

r147 is 100% correct here. One caveat: There is "emotion" involved in those negotiating salaries in television: FEAR. Fear of paying too much, being bowled over by agent/talent demands, fear of having to answer why you paid too much over scale +10 to a performer whose only real experience and credential is having lived some of the life of the character, yet who brings no viewership with them.

It is a loss/profit mentality.

[quote]Dave Chappelle appealed to Netflix's emotion and got residuals on his show when contractually he wasn't owed any, for instance. Netflix renewed the One Day at a Time reboot not because it was profitable but because fans were upset.

r151 is 100 % wrong. Chappelle got over his deal not because of sentiment but because it was considered good business on the part of the network ODAAT got a new life because they believed it could be profitable, not because they felt sorry for the people who were upset it was cancellled.

I said the considerations were also financial, R160. I was very clear about that.

R158 it is true that trans women are more likely to be sex workers. Especially 20 years ago and before. Employers would tell you to your face they wouldn’t hire a Tranny. I had friends who got fired upon coming out, even before transition. So sex work was a life saver for some trans women-especially trans women of color. The stuff they endured with closeted men who were mostly bottoms is horrifying.

R159 speak about yourself, please. I know a lot of transwomen who do not have “significant mental problems.” They work in a variety of jobs in government, medicine, law, academia and business. You don’t need to paint with such a broad cartoonish brush. But then again you are one of the Russian trolls or maybe Murdoch. Both dictators hate transpeople.

[quote]I said the considerations were also financial, [R160]. I was very clear about that.

The point is they are ONLY financial. Any concern that looks as though it is driven by sentiment is actually a financial decision if you lift up the hood and look under.

Executives are trained not to be swayed by emotional appeals that do not uphold the bottom line: Profit.

I can tell you right now, Janet Mock will be a huge hit on social media for her self-immolation, but nobody will hire her after this and really, why should they?

The best she can hope for is a face saving conclusion to her current deals.

[quote]Executives are trained not to be swayed by emotional appeals

Executives don't go through any kind of training like this. There's not even one standard university degree that all executives have, let alone training to turn all executives into emotionless robots. I mean, you've seen the Trumpster CEOs and executives, right? They're all emotion.

Netflix understands the emotional side to the appeal of their shows and programs, they know that they look good by doing right by Dave Chappelle (for example) and that looking good and doing the right thing means an increase in profits. There's emotion in that decision. I don't really understand why you'd say otherwise.

R162 They ALL have significant mental problems. Gender dysphoria is a real diagnosis.

Also, you know "a lot" of transwomen? Personally, in real life, not on the internet?

There is a big difference, of course, between those who fall into the cult of "stunning and brave" and get pseudo therapy from constant reinforcement that they are special and amazing and unique, vs. those who seek out and get therapy and quietly live their lives.

And of course the cult convinces these unstable people that they MUST "live their truth" or LITERALLY DIE.

And the fact that you are immediately accusing me of being a Russian troll or a right-winger who "hates transpeople" is just another example of the bullying that occurs in an attempt to stifle all debate or discussion that isn't pandering. Next you'll accuse me of "denying their right to exist" or other such meaningless nonsense.

Poor little Curiel, he will be forgotten quickly after this season airs and Mock finds a strapping BBD to replace him.

[quote]Executives don't go through any kind of training like this. There's not even one standard university degree that all executives have, let alone training to turn all executives into emotionless robots.

Trained by mentors and superiors, not in a university setting. I don't know how you extrapolated that I was referring to a "standard university degree" The same way you might, as a subordinate, notice what your boss does that is successful in his/her job and adopt those behaviors and skills in the hope of advancing to that level.

[quote] There's emotion in that decision. I don't really understand why you'd say otherwise.

ok

Is the $40,000 after taxes?

I didn't say you were talking about a university class, R167, I just said there is no standard educational course for executives. They're not all educated and trained the same, let alone all trained to be emotionless. That simply does not happen. You made it up and now you're trying to defend this tenuous position by equivocating and moving goalposts. Have fun with that.

I suspect r165 is authentically stating the truth that most, if not many ,trans people are suffering from gender dysmorphia. I think our understanding of gender is so restrictive that those who have strong tendencies defying those gender norms have nowhere to put that sense of 'otherness" and wanting to cement an identity, determine they are the opposite gender. There are only two genders: Male and Female, Fluid or trans people are simply defying the restrictive gender normative behavior that feels unnatural to them.

r,169 thanks for your post

[quote] Have fun with that

It is the part of my job I enjoy the least. It is sometimes hard to deny genuinely talented people a bump because they don't affect the bottom line.

Thanks for the interesting discussion

[quote]She fucked talent and a crew member. That's not acceptable workplace behavior.

Excuse me, but because no trans has been in the position to exploit a cast and crew before, Janet's inappropriate sexual behavior is actually TRAILBLAZING as well as STUNNING and BRAVE.

R170 but they AREN'T defying gender norms.

For every "nonbinary" male who wears dresses and has a full beard (these people are usually known as attention whores), there are lots more trans who go for gender stereotypes. Even their flag uses pink and blue, not shades in-between. They WANT to present as real women or real men. Most of them do not "pass" and being reminded of this is damaging to their false reality. But it IS reality.

This is the most wonderful case of multiple things can be true at once, which we - as a society - seem unable to remember, particularly when talking about people from marginalized groups:

1) It's possible that that Janet Mock can be a black trans woman and be underpaid for the the work she is doing (inclusive of name value) 2) It's possible that she can also have really fucked up and been guilty of using unfair power dynamics by fucking a crew member AND a supporting cast member (when she's their boss) 3) It's possible that she can unfaithful and make stupid mistakes and be a hot mess.

I actually think this speech is incredibly equalizing. We often portray or ONLY talk about trans people as victims or STUNNING and BRAVE. Personally I love seeing a trans woman as much of a fucking mess as everyone else!!!!

yeah, I agree with you r173. My point, more clearly stated is sort of along the lines of what you are saying. I think many trans people begin their journey by realizing they don't conform to the norms assigned to the gender of their birth. But because we all have internalized gender norms, when they realize they don't conform to their birth gender norms, they assume they must be the opposite gender and start "conforming" to the norms of the gender opposite to the one they were born with.

R174 bitch have you seen social media? It's full of fucking trans messes. This is nothing new, and not surprising in the least to anyone who has been paying attention.

[quote] Even if they give Mock the earth, moon and stars [R151], he will never be satisfied.

This is, of course, completely true. Anyone who is over 35 has lived long enough to know the truth that some individuals are professionally aggrieved and whatever their current complaints and demands are, the underlying existential position that they are a superior entity who is never appreciated enough or compensated enough will never be solved.

They will simply move to the next set of demands and perceived slights that are really just a platform to demand special status and treatment based on what they have "suffered" rather than their performance.

This is not to say that genuine slights and unfair treatment should not be addressed and responded to. You may very well be underpaid and underappreciated in your job, but there are ADULT ways to address these issues, and they really begin by asking yourself the question: Am I really unappreciated or do I simply FEEL unappreciated.

In other words, if you want to wear a crown, you have to back it up with a country.

R175 there's a lot of clinical psychological reasons for it I'm sure, which is why it has an entry in the DSM. Gender is a theory, sex is fact, and gender is at least rooted in sex.

Most of us don't fall squarely into what would be considered a "gender norm" by virtue of being gay. It just becomes another form of internalized homophobia when that gay person now decides they MUST really be a woman because they have feminine mannerisms and like men. They are reinforcing gender stereotypes.

And I'm not talking about the transvestites who are straight males who have a sexual fetish, which are another form of modern trans with their own psychological issues and DSM entries.

r178 tells no lies. Agree 100%

R170 Why can’t they figure that out?

Mock is such a funny name. Say it to yourself out loud.

That’s because it was Anglicized from its original version, Mockstein.

R182 Stop mocking Mock!

Crock

The lady at R150’s link looks like a member of the klumpp family.

Mock has an agent and a manager and a lawyer. Why did Mock take the deal in the first place? He’s a joke.

But why would she want a white woman’s nose?

[quote]Why did Mock take the deal in the first place? He’s a joke.

Because he’s most likely BPD or has some other personality disorder or mental illness. He’s not a stable or healthy person and never has been if you’ve read his memoir.

He grew up gay in a homophobic family, ran away to become a prostitute at 16– which he still claims was empowering, transitioned and somehow lucked into some pretty cushy media gigs at places like People magazine. Mock is really outspoken about transitioning kids too, based on his experience with his trans prostitute “family” when he was a teen.

That set must’ve been a nightmare with the likes of Mock, Moore, and Ross on it. Probably a lot was covered up.

And left Twitter of course is applauding this public breakdown.

Seriously, if any one in any other industry has done this they’d be fired on the spot.

But because she’s trans and black she’s courageous and speaking her truth.

No, she’s not. She was inappropriate and unprofessional. Full stop.

She should lose work over this. But if she does, leftist Twitter will blame transphobia and not unprofessional conduct.

Adult child of addicts is publicly messy at an inappropriate moment.

Groundbreaking.

[quote]Personally I love seeing a trans woman as much of a fucking mess as everyone else!!!!

Is this your first day on the internet?

Fuck this Cunt!

As a black trans woman, Janet Movk is at the very top of the intersectional pyramid. Ryan as a white cisfag ( the language intersectional sjws use) is at the very bottom.

She can cancel Ryan Murphy at any moment so he needs to check himself and give her what she wants.

Mock flocks to the cock then spews a crock and gets socked!

When your career goes to the shitter at least you'll have Twitter

[quote] To be clear, the entire series was ripped from themes brought up in “Paris Is Burning”. If anyone should be mad, it should be the subjects that are still alive for cashing in on their tragedies.

Which would be none of them. Willy Ninja, Pepper Labeija, Dorian Corey, Angie Xtravaganza... they're all long dead.

R188 - I don't know about that. Her 'bio' is confusing. She supposedly started transitioning as a freshman in high school and funded her treatment by doing prostitution in her teens. Then, in the middle of her freshman year in college, she flew to Thailand to get the surgery.

I have a lot of questions about this timeline and events. I'd like to see her mom interviewed - I don't think Janet's version of events are 100% true.

How many dicks do you have to suck to afford a multiple week trip to Thailand with surgery at the age of 18? It says the costs are between $15,000 to $25,000, without airfare or accommodations.

It's impressive she got it done, but I think she's leaving out a lot of details.

She can get surgery on everything but the troglodyte brow bone. Once a man, always a man.

She'll be back to turning tricks on the streets for $40 next year.

[quote] She'll be back to turning tricks on the streets for $40 next year.

Which is why she had her surgery done in Thailand--so she could learn more about the tricks of the trade while she was there.

The only thing that's fun about this is to imagine Ryan Murphy's horror and consternation at all this. He fully deserves this for how loudly he's congratulated himself for being so woke for doing this show. I'm sure he's spending the weekend on the phone with everyone trying to figure out how to minimize the damage this is doing to his reputation.

Pose season 3 review from The Hollywood Reporter:

"... the drama returns to its gooey roots for its last outing, with odes to friendship and speechifying about how kind and beautiful and special the characters are in nearly every one of the seven installments. There's a lot of love, but a lot less compelling storytelling."

“how kind and beautiful and special the characters are...”

If they don’t mention how stunning and brave they are, it is literal violence.

Didn’t know she started fucking her current BF when he was 23 and working as her subordinate? Kind of gross

[quote] As a black trans woman, Janet Movk is at the very top of the intersectional pyramid. Ryan as a white cisfag ( the language intersectional sjws use) is at the very bottom. She can cancel Ryan Murphy at any moment so he needs to check himself and give her what she wants.

Not only that, but she is also a former SEX WORKER. So she is the HERO to end ALL HEROES.

I wonder if this cunt gave recounts of her first hand experience as a prostitute when they were filming that Hollywood show?

Is Janet talented? What, apart from her "lived experience" qualifies her to be an executive producer? Is her writing accomplished?

$40,000 per episode is like $12,000 take home after agents, managers, taxes, etc. And they only did seven episodes this season. So she isn’t making a whole lot from this particular show (which has always been a weak ratings performer for FX).

I had never heard of Pose until this thread. I had heard of how courageous and inspirational Mock was, maybe because she actually looks like a woman. I have no idea why she deserves a suite or would bother to talk about it. I have no idea why anyone would give Caitlin Jenner an award. If you don't get an award for being a woman, one is not needed for being a good simulation.

R201, it is quite funny, isn't it? It's like R17 said: it's never enough, and I hope Murphy has learnt that lesson. Trigger warning for y'all but I'm about to quote Winston Churchill: Each one hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last.

He’s a great guy, a really brave man.

Why did she NEED a suite?

^ Those personality issues aren't all going to fit in one room.

Is 40,000 dollars an episode not a lot? This bitch sounds beyond entitled. It's almost nauseating.

Murphy should have hired Susan Batson, an esteemed acting coach, to set these "girls" straight.

Yes R197 there is a lot in his memoirs that doesn’t add up. He most likely had a chaser sugar daddy funding his surgery, but chasers are a real sore subject for trans women like Mock and Laverne Cox. They hate acknowledging that 90% of the men they attract are chaser who are already aware that they are men. Mock claiming his current and past lovers didn’t know he’s male is wishful thinking on his part.

[quote] $40,000 per episode is like $12,000 take home after agents, managers, taxes, etc. And they only did seven episodes this season. So she isn’t making a whole lot from this particular show (which has always been a weak ratings performer for FX).

Honey, that's still a lot more than the $100 a throw she could get otherwise on Santa Monica Boulevard.

What she neglects to mention is that Ryan also gave her work directing on The Politician. Janet had an episode on that piece of shit then went right into working on her next season of Pose. So he's giving her work on more than one project and she's shitting all over him.

Once more, the pay scale depends on what kind of show is being produced and what kind of platform it will air on. The farther you get from network tv the lower the pay scale, that's just how it works. No one is going to hand Janet more money for doing a short run show on cable than the pay scale demands.

Is the name Janet now going to become pejorative slang?

If she's incorporated (and she probably is) she should be able to clear 20,000 (50%) per episode. Agents/Manager/Lawyer/Taxes usually take up 45-50% of the fees for incorporated actors.

Whether her talent or experience warrants a salary of 40,000 is a completely separate issue

r216 I don't understand how Laverne, who at one time tried to push the idea that the penis can be female, could have issue with the fact her men are chasers. In early interviews she seemed very comfortable with being a lady with a penis.

[quote]He ended his remarks with a heartfelt thank you to Mock for her support, concluding, “It is not lost on me that, as a cis man, my career and this story is built on the backs of Black and Afro-Latinx trans women who have told the best story of all. So thank you, especially, to the women of our show.”

His ENTIRE CAREER was built on the backs of Black and LatinX trans women? Wtf. Talk about pandering. And look how far it got you, asshole traitor to your own people ("CIS" gay men).

[quote]I had heard of how courageous and inspirational Mock was, maybe because she actually looks like a woman.

Not so much in person though.

I have been around trans women that have way more female energy than Janet does, just about all the drag queens in RPDR have more female energy than Janet. She is an interesting vibe of not quite this but not really that when you get to be around her and she's not as petite as I expected her to be. My feeling is that those trans women who really do present unquestionably as female and who truly have that feminine energy aren't the ones shoving trans issues in the public's face.

$40K/episode is a pretty healthy fee for a non-showrunning EP on an FX series, especially for someone with Mock’s limited experience. For her to even get the EP title after working on her first series for only 2 years is a big deal. Usually a writer-producer has to start at staff writer level and then work his or her way up the ranks to story editor, executive story editor, producer, supervising producer, co-EP and then EP.

In other words, Murphy elevated her a lot faster than is customary and gave her the opportunity to get directing credits under her belt (and with no prior directing experience, either).

Not only that, her work on POSE led to a multimillion dollar overall at Netflix, meaning that she is being paid a seven-figure guarantee to develop new shows exclusively for them. Typically a writer doesn’t get offered an overall until he or she has created and run his or her own series (or multiple series) after staffing for several years on other series.

All that is to say: Mock’s rise has been extraordinarily fast by industry standards and she has no business complaining about how the industry has treated her when other talented writers kill themselves for years before getting the kinds of opportunities she’s been given — if at all.

She shot herself in the foot by doing this. It was especially stupid to embarrass Murphy, to whom her fortunes are clearly tied.

[quote]And left Twitter of course is applauding this public breakdown.

There are plenty of people there who either don't agree with her or agree with some of her points but think it was incredibly stupid that she presented them that way.

[quote]He ended his remarks with a heartfelt thank you to Mock for her support, concluding, “It is not lost on me that, as a cis man, my career and this story is built on the backs of Black and Afro-Latinx trans women who have told the best story of all. So thank you, especially, to the women of our show.”

He's been doing this a long time and has enough training from working with Simon Halls doing his PR to know that he has to respond like that publicly. Privately he's going to freeze her ass out. Nene Leakes will get an invitation to do another series before she does.

"Executives get special training to feign emotions publicly while privately being cold calculating robots that exact revenge on all the trannies I hate."

This is such a publicity stunt for the new season of the show that I will not be watching. When did she realize the $40,000 per episode was not enough -- before or after she signed the contract stating her salary?

R225, that was R163, dear.

I don't have a problem with trans people. I'm not even sure why this board always seems to. I think Angelica Ross, another of Murphy's talents, is actually wonderful. She also seems to be grateful to him which is exactly why she'll continue to work with him. There's a reason she got an upgrade from Pose to American Horror Story.

She also could have negotiated for more money in order to stay on and do a second season.

Actually Angelica is strongly supporting Janet's rant, so Miss Ross may want to start looking in the want ads.

R193 No, she can't.

Maybe on woke twitter she has power, but in real life her power is absolutely nothing compared with him.

If he wants her career is over, basically because it was him the one giving her only prominent roles and ater the meltdown i doubt people wait in lline to hire her

193 what you smokin?

Crack is wack.

Murphy, Canals and Mock have all been praised for the show. The narrative of Murphy taking the credit is absolute bullshit. You know Twitter wouldn't have had that in the first season.

There was tons of press of Mock being the first transwoman of color to write and direct a TV drama episode.

She has had smoke blown up her ass since the show started so she can't play that I was undervalued shit. Maybe in pay but she signed a contract. She wanted the gig, so she played nice and now she wants the glory and attention and more money. But the show is done, she's revealed herself as unhinged and what's it going to get her? Lots of support on Twitter, maybe. But I hope Murphy doesn't pander to her. He already gave her a job on The Politician (as noted above).

She needs a better agent if anything. The praise after writing/directing Love is the Message gave her a little more leverage for pay negotiations. But she chose to throw a tantrum instead of being a professional.

How old is this bitch? Real age, please, not tranny years.

He really is tiresome, As for his boyfriend Angel - would he be considered heterosexual if Mr. Mock has had his cock amputated?

R223 nails it. That's especially what bothers me about Janet's rant. She's been given a career in the entertainment industry on a silver platter. I remember learning she had directed an episode of "Hollywood" and I thought she was just dipping her toe into the television pond. A few weeks later it was announced she would be directing a feature and had a deal with Netflix. Usually only nepotism babies that hit it big with a Sundance indie get that kind of deal so fast. She's now acting like Hollywood has its boots on her throat, when in fact she's gotten treated better than 99.9% of people working behind the scenes.

I forget she did an ep of Hollywood too. So the recap. . .

Exec., director, writer on Pose.

Director on The Politician

Director on Hollywood

Poor thing. Fuck this bitch.

People always want to say horrible things about Murphy but one thing I know for certain, those who stay with him and work with him are rewarded in grand fashion. Name your wish and he will try and grant it for you if you are talking sense and being reasonable.

That does not happen very often in Hollywood these days, it used to happen more when movies and tv shows were controlled by producers who LOVED the business of storytelling. They were generous and treated their crews and other staff like family but those are by gone days for the most part.

Talk all the shit you want about this man but he's one of the better bosses in the business today.

And he hires openly gay actors, if gay people in positions of power in Hollywood hire gay actors the absurd debate of only gay actors can play gay roles will be over in a minute.

The problem with Murphy is he has good ideas, but the execution is pretty bad, specially ater the first season

[quote] at one time tried to push the idea that the penis can be female

omfg. I am dead.

[quote]I think many trans people begin their journey by realizing they don't conform to the norms assigned to the gender of their birth.

Frankly this is a big part of the "trans" illness, a complete lack of balls, imagination, and spine to ignore SOME of society's ideas of gender norms and just say, "I am a man, I act how I act, therefore the way I act is perfectly acceptable for a man!" That's how I faced being a gay male with plenty of sissy in me and they can as well.

Instead this bizarre gender-appropriating, science denying trans agenda has warped my fellow lefties. It's ALL based on strict gender norms created by straight people and I reject it wholly!

Y’all are jealous cuz she got fucked by Christopher Meloni.

[quote]It was mentioned in that NYT article that Mock was a hooker in her teens.

I would not rush to believe everything out of Janet Mock's mouth.

Oh, no. I would not do that.

[quote]She shot herself in the foot by doing this.

Big target, to be fair.

This actually makes me appreciate Murphy more and I don't care for him. As r237 and r238 said, he is loyal.

He has been very loyal to Janet Mock and Angelica Ross. And he would probably be loyal to the rest. I imagine not to Indya because she's batshit crazy.

[quote]That’s because it was Anglicized from its original version, Mockstein.

That’s because it was Anglicized from its original version, Mockfemale.

[quote]She can cancel Ryan Murphy at any moment so he needs to check himself and give her what she wants.

In a thread with more than its share of nutty replies, this is the nuttiest!

[quote]Typically a writer doesn’t get offered an overall until he or she has created and run his or her own series (or multiple series) after staffing for several years on other series.

It is both sad and comical that the one thing Janet Mock will never realize is that he is a classic TOKEN HIRE!

Bloody hell. That image in 241 s post...you can tell just by loking at the back. I now think that I know the provenance of the "recent" controlling Trans Narrative. Not a one of them can pass. I also know that no real straight man has ever been "fooled" by a trans to the point that they they never caught a clue when having sex. No matter how feminine in the face they present the back and shoulders and ribcage will NEVER lie, much less the pelvis. Women who fall for the "my man was fooled by a transwoman" lie is are fucking fools. Just accept that ypour man is either G or B and go for a check up. As for Miss Jan. I am sure that they will get another job in craven Hollywood. Comments on Janet Mock that contain censure about their abuse of their boyfriend that originally had nearly two and a half thousand likes are now showing eighteen likes. After all, IT is riven with soft bodied, need to be in the sun some more incels, non binairies, trans and whatnot. They won't have liked witnessing the censure that Janet Mock is getting from their own fellow Black transwomen and LGB.

Isn't that Dominique Jackson (Elektra) in that image with Meloni?

Mock is the writer/director/exec producer of Pose. She's not in the show.

R156 LOL at calling the trans Candace Owens sane. Fuck off

r248 to be fair I have met a couple of trans women that can pass, they do have a hint of androgyny to them but they can pass as female.

R251 No they do not.

X to doubt r251

I don’t know if it’s facial blindness or people just not intending to clock ‘em, but when standing next to actual women, these men do not pass.

First of all, Mock is being paid a great salary for a marginal show on a marginal network and the fact that he has marginal talent and experience. Yes, this has been stated already. And Mock has basically been minted in television and this poor little $40K a week job has brought him a multi-million dollar deal for doing NOTHING! The man has not proven he can deliver one fucking success. NO ONE gets that kind of deal without proving they have the goods (even if they got their goods cut off). So the unmitigated gall of this faux cunt drives me up the wall. Fire him, Netflix. Fire him IMMEDIATELY.

This reminds me of when that cunt Hilary Swank won the Oscar for Boys Don't Cry. The first words out of her horse mouth when she got the podium were, "This is great, because god knows we didn't get paid." Cunt- you won a fucking OSCAR. From a tiny indie that was so devalued, it had to be shot twice. You just basically got an annuity. You'll be able to work forever if you don't fuck it up. Your name has value. Before this, you were NOTHING. You know who didn't get paid- all the people below the line who busted their asses to get this film made. And you know who else didn't get paid, the entire cast of the first version of the film, back when it was called Stone, all of whom were replaced without so much as a "thank you and sorry" from Kimberly Peirce.

I worked for Christine Vachon as an intern in college back when Peirce came to show the film to her. We all watched it in the office. It had a totally different cast. Anna Grace played Brandon and Adria Tennor played Lana. Vachon wanted more control over the project so she told Peirce, we'll only do this if you throw everything out and start from scratch, which Peirce did. So no, Swank didn't suffer in the trenches for years with this film. She made it, moved on and then won an Oscar, and was supremely ungrateful. Just like Janet Mock.

I didn't say Laverne Cox passes, I said I have met a couple of women who could pass.

It is possible but very very rare. Far more rare than the trans movement want people to believe.

This is a tiny tiny percentage of the population that, as we know for political reasons, is being pushed as occurring in human beings far more frequently than it actually does.

Interesting story about Swank r254. Maybe that's why she ended up at that party for that dictator???

That money-grubbing whore!!

[quote] Cunt- you won a fucking OSCAR. From a tiny indie that was so devalued, it had to be shot twice. You just basically got an annuity. You'll be able to work forever if you don't fuck it up.

But it didn't really work out for her like that did it?

She's still working, so yes it did.

Hilary Swank has the best Hollywood Fuck You Story: She gets fired from 90210, then books Boys Dont Cry and wins an Oscar.

How are Tori and Jennie doing?

Maybe you didn't hear me, R 259. I didn't get PAID.

Someone should start a boycott of the new season so that none of the cast and crew's trauma are profited from! It's the only thing to do if you REALLY care about supporting trans women and being an ally!

[quote] Is 40,000 dollars an episode not a lot? This bitch sounds beyond entitled. It's almost nauseating.

$40k does seem low for someone credited as an executive producer, director and/or writer of a prestige cable network show. One that won a historic Emmy for Billy Porter. However, there is so much content today, perhaps the glut of content has lowered compensation for creatives. It is also likely that the contributions of the previously-unknown trans women of color in the cast and behind the scenes are undercompensated.

The 4K was just for writing.

R262 - historic Emmys and 'prestige' you claim does not = series revenue. And don't confuse that she has directed or written a few episodes as being the producer, director and writer. She is NOT Shonda Rimes.

She didn't executive produce Pose

[quote] She can cancel Ryan Murphy at any moment so he needs to check himself and give her what she wants.

[quote] In a thread with more than its share of nutty replies, this is the nuttiest!

But it is so typical of a certain type of trans mindset that Janet Mock shares: "If you do not do exactly as I say, I will have a public hissy fit, and that will DESTROY you!" This is also the current woke mindset too--do as I say or I will cancel you. It rarely works in actuality, but it does work a very few times.

Here’s the link to Hilary swanks best actress win in 2000. It’s nothing like what r254 described. She hugged Kimberly pierce and the comment about not getting paid much was clearly a joke.

She could have been giggling like Jackie the Jokeman Martling through the whole speech, it was still a cunty and unnecessary thing to say. And it's exactly like I described it, because I said that she said it. I didn't assign any tenor to it.

She’s not even LeAnn Rimes...

I guess Miss Histrionic didn't see what happened to Katherine Heigl and David Caruso.

Shonda Rimes and Ryan Murphy both work with the same actors over and over again. Not a good move to bite the hand that has been feeding you.

Is 40K normal for writing a TV episode? She produced too. Did she get 40k just for the stuff she wrote? How does TV pay usually?

Folks, TV is not like film. Much of the permanent writing staff on a show will be assigned an EP credit at some point if they stick around long enough (and some get it out of the gate depending on their experience, or in Mock's case, Murphy's desire to lend an air of authenticity to the show despite the fact that Mock had ZERo experience). Everyone in the writer's room pitches story ideas, breaks down script outlines and figures out the map of the season. One writer per weekly episode may get assigned that particular script to write but are usually always rewritten, many times by the showrunner. But Mock is not on the set physically producing any episodes. So $40K per episode, for a low, low, low rated cable series that has zero cache, and zero buzz, for someone with zero experience is very generous indeed.

I know someone who wrote for Veep. She doesn't seem that rich. What is the usual fee for writing an episode?

There are different contracts based on the platform you are writing for, cable pays less than network but HBO, Showtime, Amazon, Netflix are not far off from network.

Streaming (new media like Apple) will pay less than some cable contracts (AMC and others) although CBS streaming and Paramount streaming will pay more than new media.

Mock had no experience at all and the show is on FX which is lower tier cable production.

I just checked the Veep person's credits. It's odd she was a producer for 5 years but only wrote three episodes in that time. Would that pay well?

It would if she was getting paid for being a producer and the writing credits and pay were additional.

Don't forget that we only have Janet's word that she only gets $40k an episode, and her word probably ain't worth much.

R248 Gay men are not attracted to transwomen and straight men can be way more naive than you think.

A decade ago spanish actor Paco León (who is bisexual himself) became popular on a tv show where he imitated a lot of popular characters. One of them was model an tv host Raquel Revuelta. He became so popular that he was the host of some tv awards and he did it on drag. It's known that a powerful straight business man asked some of the people there who was the hot woman hosting the awards.

Of course no straight man has sex with a trans woman without knowing it, but a lot of them have a bad reaction because they were attracted to someone who was not a biological woman which is hard to swallow for some

Who are the idiots defending Murphy? He chose to play with fire in order to get fake woke points and now that fire is burning him. You know he doesn’t give a damn about any of his actors! Oh and he hires gay people? You mean gay white people in their 20s that he wants to h e sex with? Murphy like all of them is a fake piece of shit.

I mean Mock is crazy too. I’m not defending him.

Americans are the dumbest people ever. They spent so much time feeling sorry for the rich people who are robbing them blind while they eat food scraps. Nobody in a Hollywood is worthy of respect. Nobody in Hollywood is truly woke.

Stop defending them and start enjoying them squirm instead.

Anyone associated with a Ryan Murphy show (backstage too) can disappear and the world will be a better place.

You seem nihilistic, r279.

Cause I think Hollywood is full of scum? Lol.

I guess if your life is based on social media and reality tv stars, then yes I am.

When I looked at Twitter, I expected a MeToo debate there. Janet is the boss who left her husband for a supporting actor on Pose and hooked up with several crew members on the show (according to rumors), not just one. How is this not inappropriate behavior and abuse of power?

And imagine someone like George Clooney telling his wife in front of everyone at the film premiere how he cheated on her and how she was not allowed to leave him. Would he be called stunning and brave? I do not think so.

Why is there no footage of this? She MUST have had someone rolling an iPhone camera, right?

“You have stomped on us!” is too good not to immediately become a DL catchphrase.

R215 Susan Bateson wtf she’s everything.

R282 puts it into proper perspective. The trans community has reframed bad behavior so that it is always an act of “truth-telling” and they are always the victims.

[quote] Who are the idiots defending Murphy? He chose to play with fire in order to get fake woke points and now that fire is burning him. You know he doesn’t give a damn about any of his actors! Oh and he hires gay people? You mean gay white people in their 20s that he wants to h e sex with? Murphy like all of them is a fake piece of shit.

Say what you will about Murphy but he's one of the few producers bringing gay content on TV. I personally don't care about Pose that much but I certainly get the importance it holds in the gay history. Never mind that it's not really my history besides bringing vogueing into pop but it was still important for others. He did a good thing when he decided to do the show. It's a shame he's getting slammed for that.

It's interesting to see what happens to Mock now. She clearly thinks she's now too big to fail which is totally ridiculous since she's practically a fledgling in the industry. I hope people from the production point out publically she was compensated fairly. If I was Murphy I'd thank her for the work she's done and severe ties completely with her. I'm sure she'd then have another public fit for getting fired for only speaking her truth.

That sounds like she had a drug or alcohol induced meltdown (feeling like the walls are closing in regarding her relationship and the reveal she cheated perhaps?) Of course, it was unprofessional and she will very likely pay the price for that, but no matter if you're gay, straight, lesbian, bi, or trans we all have our own struggles, and they express themselves differently.

I love Pose, I love the cast, I love Murphy for getting it greenlit.

[quote] Paco León

He played a trans character in Netflix's House of Flowers. It's a wonderful dark comedy featuring gay characters, too.

There's also the great Spanish TV series Veneno.

I admit that I honestly believe most trans people suffer from gender dysmorphia, resulting from (as has been pointed out,) strongly internalize, rigid concepts of gender expression that they have failed to recognize are simply concepts imposed by the culture.  Rather than question the concepts they question their gender, and it becomes a kind of panacea for them.  "if I could just get the surgery, all would be well" kind of mentality.  Sadly, it seems many learn that their underlying issues don't evaporate with acceptance and gender reassignment.

I am also very aware that homosexuality was believed to be an illness created(in men)  by an overbearing mother and a weak father. This is viewed now as an antiquated concept of course, and I don't want to stigmatize sexual rebels or nonconformists as mentally ill in the way gay people were stigmatized for decades.

Having said that, i keep looking for ways to defend this woman, and I can't find a defense anywhere.  She presents a thoroughly unqualified, entitled, token woke hire. She has not only presided over a show that was not artistically successful, but she has also loudly bitten the hand that fed her in the most self-immolating way imaginable.  Authoring the hashtag #girlslikeus is hardly a credential that could justify the chances she's had.

I hated Murphy's series HOLLYWOOD. It was a woke wet dream fantasy, which was only redeemed by a few performances, notably  Jim Parsons and Mantello.  Two middle-aged white men, who also have actual credits and experience.   Talent matters. Experience matters. Janet Mock had NO business making her directorial debut on that project. If the woke criteria of "lived experience" is a necessary qualification, she had no fucking business touching that world. Of course, your "lived experience" is not a qualification for anything. Imagination, Talent, and Skill create art. Fuck this woke nonsense

Murphy brought this on himself to the extent that he sometimes makes these bizarre hires like Mock.  Why are all the transgender people on POSE young and or relatively beautiful?   Where is the representation for those trans people who cannot pass, who are ugly, and who struggle with acceptance in their own community?  What about the old trans people who might have actually lived the ballroom era in their 30s who would now be in their 70s? The show basically feels like a 14 year old girl conceived of it, hired all her less talented friends, and indulged each of their egoistic desires to keep them from going home.

Can you imagine this show without Billy Porter? One of the few series regulars with talent and experience.  That shit matters and Ryan Murphy is guilty here of not prioritizing those fundamentals.

If you don't have talent, you better have skill.  If you don't have either, you better be willing to learn.

😭 $o Poor !

Queerty hasn't mentioned this at all even though it's all in for the show. It even has a countdown clock when the final season starts.

What surprised me is that this took place at an official event and there is no clip available? No leak? I assume someone powerful (like Murphy) got the press to not release any film footage.

No one had a cell phone?

R289 Directed and created for a gay couple.

La Veneno was a very popular trans during some years in Spain, unfortunately she didn't have good taste in men, and the story ended really bad

R292 Not that rare, in queerty you can get banned for any criticism (i did it with the trans in sports and well, i can't write there anymore, and i have nothing against trans, but in sports is a very hard sell)

R294 Created by a gay couple

R290 Mr Peabody is that you?

[quote] The show basically feels like a 14 year old girl conceived of it, hired all her less talented friends, and indulged each of their egoistic desires to keep them from going home.

This is a good metaphor for Murphy and his worst instinct: hiring the children of celebrities. For every risk he takes on unknown talent (Evan Peters, Finn Wittrock, Glen Powell, David Corenswet, notice a trend here) he also balances it out with his shameless starfucking.

[quote] This is a good metaphor for Murphy and his worst instinct: hiring the children of celebrities.

Both Billie Lourd and Lily Rabe were stand-outs in their first Murphy projects.

[quote] Why are all the transgender people on POSE young and or relatively beautiful?

One can simply write that off as the caveat to the fantasy of Hollywood. However, Mock’s hiring and media success, which is all behind the scenes, is clearly due to the white man’s fetishization of the black transwoman who can pass. And is therefore more deserving of opportunities than, say, Laverne Cox.

[quote]Both Billie Lourd and Lily Rabe were stand-outs in their first Murphy projects.

I wouldn't be in a rush to put Billie Lourd and Lily Rabe in the same category. Rabe is an actual actress of talent and skill. Billie is the daughter Bryan Lourd, Co-Chair & Managing Director of CAA

Lily Rabe is the daughter of Jill Clayburgh who was an actress, not a celebrity. Hiring her is not like hiring Patrick Schwarzenegger or Paris Jackson.

She’s become a punana non grata.

[quote] Lily Rabe is the daughter of Jill Clayburgh who was an actress, not a celebrity.

Oh, now we are at the stage where posters define what counts as a celebrity in order to save their argument? Ooooookay.

I will also add that Murphy’s hiring and nurturing of Mock has the trademarks of what happens when tastemaker begins to fall out of fashion and is desperately trying to stay relevant. The cruelty of Mock to Murphy is that there is truth in her complaint, there is a parasitic quality in Murphy, with him using Mock’s media image to give artificial respiration to his dying brand of entertainments. It’s no coincidence that she was sent to direct The Politician and Hollywood.

R305 Sorry but that's laughable. Mock is a nobody, and all her career depedned of Murphy and now he is the parasite, yeah sure

If Murphy was trying to reinvent himself with Wokeness, what better way than to hire Janet Mock? Did she go to film school? Where there no transwoman film school graduates who could have been taken under his wing? No but Mock had the media image and the bombshell look that white men like, so she cut to the front of the line.

Apologies if this has been posted but I only saw the Daily Beast article. Page Six has less editorializing by the writer and more actual quotes.

Her quotes to her boytoy are really embarrassing. Why bring that up when you are trying to state your case for deserving more money and trans rights?

For those who don’t want to click:

Janet Mock, an executive producer and director on the FX drama “Pose,” left co-stars, network bosses and reporters stunned at the show’s premiere party Thursday night by ad-libbing a wide-ranging and flabbergastingly fiery speech.

During the 15-minute speech, she complained about how much the network is paying her, demanded better treatment for the trans community, shouted “F-ck Hollywood,” revealed that she’d slept with someone in the show’s crew, asked her “Pose” actor boyfriend not to leave her over the infidelity, decried the quality of the writing on the show, and had a brief conversation with co-creator and Hollywood mogul Ryan Murphy from the stage.

Early in her talk, Mock, 38, wondered aloud, “Why am I making $40,000 an episode? Huh?”

“I am angry!,” she said, demanding more money and perks equal to other TV executives.

The room at Jazz at Lincoln Center fell completely silent as Mock shouted: “F–k Hollywood … Does this make you uncomfortable? It should. It should make you f–king shake in your motherf–king boots. This is speaking truth. This is what ‘Pose’ is.”

Mock next complained about the quality of the material from male writers on the show’s first two episodes, then addressed Murphy, saying that “you brought … girls in to help you.”

“Who brought the girls in?,” she asked him. “I did,” Murphy replied, “I wanted the girls to be there.”

But the speech took an even more personal turn when Mock demanded that boyfriend Angel Bismark Curiel “stand up … right now!”

Bismark Curiel nervously stood up, and Mock said to the crowd, “Let me tell you something about love.”

“Today, I was gonna let [Angel] go,” she said. “I was gonna let you go, right, but what did I do? I f–ked someone on the crew, right?”

At that revelation, one of the show’s guest stars could be heard gasping and asked, “What the hell is happening?”

“Angel, Angel. I’m not losing you. You hear me? You are f–king important to me,” Mock continued. “I don’t want to live in a house alone. I want you. You motherf–ker. Right there. That’s who I want. I’m getting what’s mine.”

That speech took balls.

[quote] “Angel, Angel. I’m not losing you. You hear me? You are f–king important to me,” Mock continued. “I don’t want to live in a house alone. I want you. You motherf–ker. Right there. That’s who I want. I’m getting what’s mine.”

Angel better not have a pet rabbit. Janet's not gonna be ignored.

Mock then apologized to composer Our Lady J — a producer and writer on “Pose” — and said she’d tried to diminish her to “make myself bigger.”

I f–ked up, y’all. I forgot who the f–k I was. They want me to come up here and pretend,” she said. “I don’t need Hollywood, honey. You know why? Cuz I’m f–king free.”

Mock provided some inspirational words for cast members — including Dominique Jackson, Indya Moore and the show’s lead, MJ Rodriguez — before turning her attention back to the industry at large.

“It’s a show, but it means so much to everyone to ‘ensure that we enable black and brown trans women to make it’ because that sounds good,” she said sarcastically. “It makes you comfortable to talk like that because then I don’t scare you into facing the f–king truth. You all have stomped on us.”

An insider who has worked with Mock told Page Six that she seemed “emotionally unhinged” and suggested her revelation about her relationship may have been the cause.

“She seemed almost immediately remorseful at what she aired publicly,” they said.

A visibly shaken Mock admitted that she was afraid the forthright speech might have ruined her career, though some in the room had her back, such as Jackson, who shouted from the audience, “Thank you for speaking for me!”

Mock was scheduled to promote the show on “Good Morning America” on Friday, but insiders told us the appearance was canceled after she gave her speech.

Mock did not get back to us and her reps did not comment.

To recap:

Mock was hired as co-EP on Pose.

Then in 2019 Mock signed a 3-year deal with Netflix for exclusive rights to series she develops and a first look at feature films. It sounds like it's because of Ryan Murphy:

[quote]As part of the deal, she will join Ryan Murphy's series Hollywood — the first project produced under Murphy's megadeal with Netflix — as an executive producer and director.

For his Netflix projects, Murphy hired her on the Politician, as EP on Hollywood, and now EP on Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story.

This person doesn't have a TV career outside the Murphy stable, and followed him into a deal on Netflix. Is this meltdown a suicide mission or an attempt to blackmail Murphy/Netflix into more money on the current project?

It’s crazy how the daily beast glossed over the abusive, manipulative way she embarrassed her partner/employee in front of all of his coworkers and industry people.

And how she admits to treating Our Lady J, another trans woman, poorly just to make herself look better. The guy said it was nice she was apologizing. I would say don’t congratulate an apology without acknowledging this person obviously fostered a toxic work environment and by all accounts Lady J is lovely.

[quote]“It’s a show, but it means so much to everyone to ‘ensure that we enable black and brown trans women to make it’ because that sounds good,” she said sarcastically. “It makes you comfortable to talk like that because then I don’t scare you into facing the f–king truth. You all have stomped on us.”

She is not wrong here. White cisgender gay men go straight for the “trans women of color card” to claim solidarity in the victim Olympics. Much of the fatigue people have with the apparent Transwoman of Color victimhood culture is due to gay white men pushing it for Woke brownie points. And Murphy is the posterboy for this.

With Ryan Murphy she’d just be another backroom drag queen doing her schtick to an audience of drunks. HE gave her a platform, and this is the thanks he gets? The show would never in a million years have been greenlighted without him.

[quote]That speech took balls.

Well, I guess he at least has those.

Snark aside, this speech did not take balls. This speech was STUNNING in its cowardice, not brave at all. This woman should not be managing a Denny's let alone be in the vicinity of writing and directing television. Two professions, I must add, with qualified women of color scrambling to get a fraction of what she was so indulgently given.

It isn't courage to swan dive off a cliff in front of a crows screaming "look at me, everyone, look what YOU have done to ME" It is the height of narcissism and a deflection from her lack of ability to execute the job she was criminally paid 40,000 per episode to execute

Whoa! WTF did she do to her boyfriend in front of everyone? What a total piece of shit. "I don't want to live in an empty house - I'm getting what's mine."

A few things or all of the following are happening: she had a breakdown, fame went to her head, she was drunk/high or she has delusions of grandeur.

Name one person in Hollywood that could go up on stage and say something like that with no repurcussions?

I'm scratching my head - has there ever been a worse, more damaging and disrespectful speech in entertainment history?

Now cut to the next morning where her phone is ringing off the hook and she's waking up to the reality shitstorm she just created. All the awkward stares at work, the silences - the whole apology tour she's going to do that will fall on deaf ears.

[quote]Much of the fatigue people have with the apparent Transwoman of Color victimhood culture is due to gay white men pushing it for Woke brownie points.

Can you explain this? The fatigue I feel around victimhood culture in the trans community is due completely to the victimhood culture of the Twitter trans community.

The real victims in the Trans community are children and young trans women who die at an alarming rate, not social media trans "stunning and brave" bullhshit that basically ignores this reality

Today, I was gonna let [Angel] go,” she said. “I was gonna let you go, right, but what did I do? I f–ked someone on the crew, right?”

At that revelation, one of the show’s guest stars could be heard gasping and asked, “What the hell is happening?”

I need to know which guest star this was

R320 there are literally white gay men who start off speeches at LGBT functions by THANKING the transwoman of color for starting the gay rights movement.

And maybe her partner wasnt embarrassed. Most people would be though.

Does Angel (aka “what’s mine!”) fuck the gaped flesh wound or that plumped, shitty black culo?? Does he have a constant taste of WIG in his mouth?

[quote] She is not wrong here. White cisgender gay men go straight for the “trans women of color card” to claim solidarity in the victim Olympics. Much of the fatigue people have with the apparent Transwoman of Color victimhood culture is due to gay white men pushing it for Woke brownie points. And Murphy is the posterboy for this.

The Trans Movement is still at its infant stages compared to, say, the Gay Rights Movement. I consider myself a Trans ally as well as a member of the LGBT Community, but I can see a lot of - what I consider - mistakes being made.

Even the whole LGBT Community would be nothing without the generous support of LGBT allies and companies pandering to the LGBT Community for its members to buy their stuff.

I know it's oversimplifying things, but yeah, it comes down to "don't bite the hand that feeds (aka. supports) you".

Mock had a public meltdown. Ryan Murphy saw something in her that he considered worthy of support (for whatever reason). I think Mock had a good ol' stress induced meltdown. Of course, that doesn't look good for her and makes it easy for critics to use it against her and the Trans Community.

Janet was performing "fierce" and extra "street" for the fancy crowd, but misfired badly. Just a vulgar, self-destructive gas bag. People perform too much, especially actors and trans. Actor + award show + trans = recipe for disaster

[quote] This woman should not be managing a Denny's let alone be in the vicinity of writing and directing television. Two professions, I must add, with qualified women of color scrambling to get a fraction of what she was so indulgently given.

Let’s be clear: Mock is not a woman. What actual black women face in the workplace and what men like Mock face are two completely separate things. Any discrimination Mock encounters— and yes, I believe he does encounter some— is because he is a feminine presenting gay man attempting to live as a woman; it is not the discrimination actual women deal with in their lives.

Janet was just letting her genuine angry, privileged male character come out.

I have a great idea for a remake of All About Eve but this time it’s about an aging gay showrunner who take a young transwoman of color under his wing only for her to stab him in the back.

I want Joe Mantello in the Bette Davis role, Dennis O’Hare in the Celeste Holm role, Jim Parsons in the George Sanders role, Robin de Jesus in the Thelma Ritter role, and David Corenswet in the Marilyn Monroe role.

[quote] there are literally white gay men who start off speeches at LGBT functions by THANKING the transwoman of color for starting the gay rights movement.

I get what you mean now, r322 and I agree.

[quote] I think Mock had a good ol' stress induced meltdown.

I'd say chemically induced. All these chemicals - hormones and otherwise - she's stuffing himself with.

Like him or hate him, Murphy has more talent in his little fingernail than Mock has in his/her entire body. I’d like to see Mock try and get something up in Hollywood without him. You think Hollywood says yes to gay projects? The upcoming miniseries on Halston got hawked all over town without a single bite. NOT ONE. Then Murphy picked it up. And that’s a show about a privileged white male. Good luck Mock with getting your next black trans drama to screen!!

Oh and Matt Bomer as the Bill character and Stephen Fry as Max Fabian.

[quote]Let’s be clear: Mock is not a woman. What actual black women face in the workplace and what men like Mock face are two completely separate things. Any discrimination Mock encounters— and yes, I believe he does encounter some— is because he is a feminine presenting gay man attempting to live as a woman; it is not the discrimination actual women deal with in their lives.

This is very true.

The general audience is NOT interested.

Classic case of “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.”

[quote] The general audience is NOT interested.

And is that the goal of gay themed entertainment? To please the general audience no matter what?

R325 The trans movement is in it’s infant stages... what can we expect next?!

[quote]“Who brought the girls in?,” she asked him. “I did,” Murphy replied, “I wanted the girls to be there.”

None of these people are 'girls'.

I notice that woke Twitter isn't hawking this as heavily as I thought they might have. There are many posts with the predictable drivel " I hope Janet Mock is ok today" that seem to run equal to the " I hope Angel is ok today" The poor crew members she fucked, however, seem to be getting little to no mention.

What is interesting to me is how sparsely liked and commented on the "Stunning and Brave" tweets are. Most have zero likes, comments or retweets.

Perhaps this indicates that even woke Twitter doesn't want to jump on this bandwagon with ferocity, sensing the foundation is very shaky?

It was a tasteless joke r318. Of corse the speech didn’t take balls - just a massive hole for the complete shit show it was.

R332 - and to add, Ryan Murphy worked his way up for decades to get where he is, all the while pushing for gay and lesbian representation in his series. Nobody handed him anything.

You may say - oh he's a white man! But he's a gay white man and that wasn't some free ride over 20 years ago.

All of this Ryan Murphy bashing on this thread is really over the top and without merit.

[quote]All of this Ryan Murphy bashing on this thread is really over the top and without merit.

I agree with this. Murphy deserves credit for his advocacy and his accomplishments. I think he also deserves a fair amount of criticism for elevating a few individuals strictly for their of the moment cultural status or their proximity to power.

But hey, this is show business and he makes calculated hires like everyone else.

I wonder what would have happened if Hattie McDaniel applied the same scorched earth approach when she accepted her Oscar. Would there be more black representation in Hollywood, front and back of house OR none at all? I think we know. There is something to the “grin and bare it” stance at the beginning of any movement. Now POSE isn’t the beginning of the Trans movement. But it is at the beginning of trans open representation in Hollywood. Just fucking grin and bare it in the beginning like every other minority before you. When your shit breaks box office, then you start cracking whips.

[quote]there is a parasitic quality in Murphy, with him using Mock’s media image to give artificial respiration to his dying brand of entertainments.

Not hiring marginalized people means you're a bigot and hiring marginalized people means you're a parasite. Got it.

Janet, you’re not a woman, you’re a crazy, deranged trannie.

R343 - all powerful Hollywood executives elevate people at some point or another. Oprah and Whoopi got huge fame bumps because of Color of Purple. But imagine if he had NOT put Janet Mock in those roles it would have been - cis people are exploiting us! And yet - the charge is still thrown at the people who helped to give them a voice, a show and representation.

R344 - there is no 'grin and bear it' - it is a show about POC trans including POC trans actors and producers and writers. How many almost exclusively gay shows are there with gay producers and actors? I can't think of any. Women's shows with women producers / directors?

Ryan Murphy gave them all that he could - and I'm sure it was not easy to convince people to take on this project. It never would have been made without him. No good deed goes unpunished.

I don't know if it is fair to characterize Janet Mock's tantrum as growing pains of a movement. The fringe elements of the gay and lesbian rights movements might have erred on the side of being overly militant but were never dripping in entitlement or victimhood to this degree.

What the "stunning and brave" contingent seem to hold as justice is actually a blank check for any kind of behavior and an entitlement to the world fulfilling whatever their fantasies are, regardless of talent.

Can you imagine ANY man (black, white, asian, latino) calling for their girlfriend to stand up in front of everyone, say that they cheated on them but they don't want to be lonely, so I'm staying with you motherfucker and I'm getting what's mine?

Holy shit! But if you're black and trans - hey, go for it! You can do whatever you want!

Hell, any woman who did that to their boyfriend would also be dragged, but not as severely as a man would. Because there's always a presumption that women only cheat because their male partners aren't doing the right things and they have an excuse.

I guarantee that if audio of this ever comes out, they will edit out all the Angel and OLJ stuff and this will be taught in colleges as the beginning of the trans movement in Hollywood.

If I was the bf in that theatre I would have walked out, and rushed to clear out my shit from all shared accommodations and called it a day. I would probably be somewhat publicly civil to Mock after leaving her, however.

R350 Think so?

R351 - if they are still filming, can you imagine the tension and awkwardness on the set for all cast members? Talk about throwing a bucket of water on a project that all of them are extremely proud of.

She single-handedly ruined this show for the whole cast and crew. How could it not if she's the producer? This whole final season is going to be under the cloud of that speech - every interview with everyone on that show.

If anyone in your workplace pulled this stunt, would you work with them again or want to associate with them? Besides that IRL, that person would be fired in SECONDS of walking off that stage.

Even the commenters on ONTD criticised her for this, which I wasn't expecting. Admittedly, some tried to excuse her, saying she must be suffering from some form of mental illness crisis, and some tried to put the blame on Murphy, etc, for not stopping her speaking (imagine the stories if that happened), but most were critical. When even those self-righteous cunts aren't backing you up, you know you fucked up.

[quote]if they are still filming

They're not.

R329/R333, I heartily approve of several of your choices, but who's Anne Baxter? Janet Mock?

R356 the only black Transwoman actress I know is Laverne Cox. You pick one for me.

I’ve seen the show and the only one who could act was the scary darker one, Dominique or whoever

Thing is anyone that publicly criticizes her will be called transphobic or "canceled".

R359 Yeah, no.

Most people cancel vulgarians, and suffer no backlash for doing so.

Oh and maybe Dylan McDermott for the Lloyd character. He’s good at playing scoundrels.

R347 you missed my point entirely. Janet Mock needs to shut the fuck up and just endure any imagined trauma she feels she might have endured. You “grin and bare it” as to not derail any advancements your community has made. Just as Hattie McDaniel, a talented actress, was able to grin and bare winning the first Oscar for POC by basically playing a coon. You don’t set fire to a ship just as it launches.

Question - if she got a 7 figure deal with Netflix in 2019 to develop shows...what are they? I'm not even going to ask how someone with no production or development experience gets such a deal, but where are the shows - even with the blip of the pandemic?

R363 - I see your point, but I just don't see the comparison in this case. The roles and the show were not dehumanizing and trans POC were also behind the scenes. I just don't know what there is to grin and bare about - outside of Janet's selfish one-sided plea to be one of the highest paid producers in media and the ability to fuck over her sexual partners publicly without recourse.

Gurl I don't feel like reading this hussy's full saga. I just want to know what her ex husband looks like (was he fine?) and was she fucking someone on the cast? I just need the cliff notes ☕

R365 Janet wasn’t JUST talking about her experience on POSE. She was using the historically valid point of trans people being stomped on to selfishly promote her own agenda. There is a bias that does exist against trans people in Hollywood - up until very recently they were usually portrayed as depraved murderers - dressed to kill, silence if the lambs. But once you actually start making strides at being portrayed as human, you don’t dismantle the very vehical that allowed you to advanced - no matter the imagined trauma you suffered making it. You grin and bare it, recognizing this will only lead to better opportunities.

When I was growing up gay people were either mincing queens as in the bird cage or dying from aids at the end of every episode. Then we moved on to the straight girls best friend. It’s only now that we are starting to move into just bring human.

[quote] Why is there no footage of this? She MUST have had someone rolling an iPhone camera, right?

Someone must have whipped out their phone. People these days grab their phone and record at the first sign of drama. (Fortunately, in some cases.)

Unless for some reason they had confiscated all phones at the door, there’s video out there somewhere.

Apart from nepotism, I can't come up with a single example of any writer/director in television getting this kind of incredible breaks without demonstrating any talent or competence related skills.

She literally had NO experience. None, not even directing the 8th grade play. A hashtag is her most notable professional accomplishment.

Murphy deserves that snake bite, I hope he learns from it. But first he needs to cut the cord on this ingrate.

I feel guilty a lot for being white and cis. I know that's my own issue. It makes me want to hide away from the world because I just feel like unless I'm fighting for freedom for others every second I'm a piece of shit.

[quote]I feel guilty a lot for being white and cis.

I get where you are coming from r369, but remember the goal of any genuine civil rights movement is to expand freedom, not to restrict it. There is nothing wrong with being white and cis gendered. Don't let anyone shame you for who you are or guilt trip you for the sins of other people who look like you. You don't owe anyone shame for who you are and if anyone demands that from you, run the other way.

Who gives a fuck about Hillary Swank? It's very normal for actors working on indie projects to joke about not being paid, that's not the point. This is about Janet Mock, focus people.

Enty Lawyer here already said a lot so I'll give my 2 cents. Assuming this lady got 40k for writing only, this is already above the WGA minimums. I assume she was given executive producer credit out of kindness from Ryan Murphy who is a very loyal person to his talents.

I'm linking the MBA contract so you all can have an idea how much a writer makes in reality. This woman was given a golden opportunity as the lawyer pointed out, no one gets deals without clout or a solid record to prove the investment in them.

I wouldn't be surprised if by the next months the deal is never mentioned again and a breach is paid to rid of the future headaches.

[quote]You know he doesn’t give a damn about any of his actors! Oh and he hires gay people? You mean gay white people in their 20s that he wants to h e sex with? Murphy like all of them is a fake piece of shit.

I have worked on four Murphy projects, Feud, Versace, Hollywood, Rachet. I know many of his people and those people are working with him right now on Impeachment. I have a friend that works on whatever project Ryan is directing or spending most of his attention on. People are defending him because the negative things written about him are not true. He is loyal, he promotes from his own pool of workers which includes women. I will say that he hasn't always been great about minority hiring but he's making an effort now.

I have never seen, nor has my friend any evidence that he is trying to fuck the any young actors he hires. You can go on spitting bile about a man you know nothing about and I will go on defending him because of the knowledge I have learned about him from direct contact with him.

r372 I agree with you completely. As someone who knows Murphy, how do you anticipate he will react to Janet Mock's behavior at the POSE premiere?

Is he likely to publicly forgive and privately distance? I'd probably say nothing in public and freeze her out.

R372 so the rumors of him and the casting couch aren't true? He doesn't seem the type. The ones about Darren Criss are ridiculous. I just think Murphy gets fixated on certain people and Criss is one of those people.

[quote]If Murphy was trying to reinvent himself with Wokeness, what better way than to hire Janet Mock?

Anyone saying Ryan Murphy has gone "woke" is an idiot or has never seen a damn thing the man has made.

Did you watch Glee? Did you watch any of the shows he has put out? He has always been progressive. Yes, I said progressive since you people abuse the word "woke" to mean anything that isn't white and gay since gay is no longer considered "woke" by you. I see the game you're playing.

[quote]so the rumors of him and the casting couch aren't true? He doesn't seem the type.

What rumors? Correction, which "credible" rumors? People have been telling you there's nothing going on for years. Multiple people who have worked with or know the guy. No one has come forward with anything, which any person would have especially when #MeToo was at its height, because nothing is happening or has happened! You don't think some jackass would want to try and take him down a peg by claiming he tried to sleep with them, touched them inappropriately, glared at him a little too long? Someone would have over the past few decades but they haven't because .... there is nothing.

I don't think that Murphy has actual sex with the guys he casts. But I do think that he sees himself either as mentor or as Queen Bee holding court. And he does a great deal of good for the LGBT Community within Hollywood. People can attack and criticize the quality of whatever he releases, but he's part of a "first" generation of powerful gays who support the Gay, LGBTQ, Community without any fear of being blackballed for it.

[quote] As someone who knows Murphy, how do you anticipate he will react to Janet Mock's behavior at the POSE premiere? Is he likely to publicly forgive and privately distance? I'd probably say nothing in public and freeze her out.

I’m not r372, but Mock has put Murphy in a bad situation with his admissions that he was fucking both cast and crew members. This is an HR nightmare, regardless that it isn’t uncommon; the difference being Mock admitted it publicly and now these incidents can’t just be swept under the rug. That alone has to piss Murphy off.

Lol at the Murphy defenders. You can tell this thread is filled with people who are hardcore riding that Murphy dick.

He's loyal to his circle?! Wow that's shocking! Guess who else was loyal to his circle? Fucking Weinstein. Is there anyone defending him that isn't on his paycheck?

And he doesn't fuck his crew? Are you kidding me with that bs? Just cause you're not a blue eyed beauty and he doesn't want to fuck you, doesn't mean it ain't happening.

And of course he's pissed at Mock! Cause he knows damn well that wasn't the only inappropriate relationship going on nor is it one of the ones that will truly cause scandal.

But continue worshipping the guy. Maybe he'll expand that role of yours from extra to guest star?

Desperate star fuckers.

Look at the hater at r378. He really put us in our place. /s

[...]

Ryan has been on thin ice with the sjws community for years. If Janet Movk can convince the trans mob on twitter that Ryan Murphy lowballed her or didn’t respect the trans contribution to Pose, that will be the beginning of the end for him. They won’t let up.

Ryan’s audience is made up largely of lgbt people and sjws. Theyaren’t the forgiving types and don’t look at things rationally. They can hold a grudge especially against white men.

Remember Ellen’s downfall can be directly connected to her flubbing of the GW Bush situation.once twitter turns on you, the mainstream media will as well.

R381 now they are going after him for not casting a woman of size to play Linda Tripp. It never ends!

LOL!

[...]

I think he miscalculated by leaning in too far to what people think is woke. Season 2 of the politician was all about trans, throuples, fluidity erasing the gay of season one. Hollywood was an after school special about tolerance. Pose was literally made to showcase trans, he hired trans actors and writers, and that’s not enough?

[...]

You bitches are transfixed by Mock.

R386, lets stop pretending there weren't other gay male characters on that show, some of whom were stereotypically masculine jocks.

One thing Glee can't be faulted for is a narrow portrayal of the gay male - although DL sure likes to forget this little detail.

[...]

R389, your claimed the show depicted only the 'wrong' (according to you) stereotype of gay, so you stand to be corrected.

You can stop cunting now.

[quote] Mock then apologized to composer Our Lady J — a producer and writer on “Pose” — and said she’d tried to diminish her to “make myself bigger.”

And this, my dears, is further proof of what a complete joke Pose is. Our Lady J is a fucking composer (what he's composed, I have no idea, but I have heard of him in that capacity before). What Our Lady J is NOT is a writer/producer for television. Did Murphy hire ANYONE in the room with even one day's television experience? The trannies are literally leapfrogging over professionals for highly sought out positions despite having no experience (or talent) and for what? For a mess of a show no one watches. I'm so fucking tired of people being hired to fill a quota. Or to appease the twitter mob who wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire.

[...]

R391 “Make myself bigger” seems to be Mock’s modus operandi.

Big black cock or inverted cock skin pussy?

[quote] Now POSE isn’t the beginning of the Trans movement. But it is at the beginning of trans open representation in Hollywood.

Good heavens. It makes it sound like there’s an army of ladyboys at the gates. Trans represent .001 of the population, and I don’t see a desperate hunger out there to tell their mostly predictable stories — I suffered, I surgeried, I became a butterfly cruelled crushed by fickle men, but I survived looking from the gutter up the stars! Rinse repeat.

I think that you've got your percentages wrong, R395. Transgender-identified people are often said nowadays to be a full 1% of the population though, curiously, I seem to recall that they used to be described as 1% of 1%. Not sure when they switched the two numbers out.

[...]

[quote]Gays deserve better than one-dimensional stereotypes of Nelly McQueen and Butch McJerkdouche.

The characters weren't one dimensional.

But if you're so offended, stop watching Murphy shows. He plays on stereotypes of any kind.

[...]

[...]

No they aren’t r396.

See page 23. This is from the leading global transgender health org.

That was fucked up for Janet to embarrass Angel B. L. like that. I hope he thinks enough of himself to move on and find someone who truly wants and loves him.

[quote]But it is at the beginning of trans open representation in Hollywood.

Meaning what exactly?

Imagine if a straight while male had publicly confessed to sleeping with underlings and cheating on them, and ended with "I will never leave you, I want what's mine."

They'll be tarred and feathered and persona-non-grata'ed on the spot.

Glee was a satire. As hard as that is for children to understand, that means qualities are exaggerated and not always meant to be literal. Pose was based in realism and he hired trans writers to write trans characters.

What exactly are the worthy gay shows that showcase us in the best light r400? And they better be pre-Glee when you couldn't even have teen same-sex relationships.

[quote]At that revelation, one of the show’s guest stars could be heard gasping and asked, “What the hell is happening?”

Any guesses? Christine Ebersole? Christopher Meloni? Mother Vivian from House of Vance?

Maybe it was Jackee who is supposed to guest star this season.

Not sure if the trannys can take down Murphy, but there are a fuck load more fatties around.

Flawed r402

r373 I don't know Murphy personally, I've been around him at work, I have no idea how he will react but judging how he has responded to tabloid mess about Glee and Naya's death his response will be brief, restrained or maybe nothing at all.

R410, the point is that this is what an important transgender organisation believes and claims.

[quote]Pose was based in realism and he hired trans writers to write trans characters.

There is precious little about Pose that is "real."

r320 uh

[quote]The real victims in the Trans community are children and young trans women who die at an alarming rate

Trans children and young trans women are not dying at an "alarming rate". The "THEY'RE KILLING US!!!" is just another meme to enforce their victimhood, as well as a threat that if they aren't killed by some random person who hates transpeople and wants to kill them, they will commit suicide because they can't magically become the opposite sex and have their gender illusion surgeries done for free. The mild statistical abnormalities among trans women of color (again, definitely not an "epidemic" or "genocide" like trans activists and their enablers claim) is because MANY of them (Mock included, so she says) are prostitutes, and it's a riskier profession.

Children who are experiencing gender dysphoria and who are being encouraged to "accept" themselves as trans will more often than not (there's a statistic and it's something like 93%) work through their gender dysphoria issues and accept themselves as a young Lesbian or young gayling. When you hear "ban conversion therapy" nowadays, it's not just banning conversion therapy for gays and Lesbians, it's banning ANY mental health professional from saying: "but maybe you aren't?" and helping the child work through their gender dysphoria with therapy. Of course it's piggybacked on an actual thing that would be useful for gays and Lesbians, which is why the T are in LGBT in the first place.

R320 Maybe Mock shouldn't push young trannys into prostitution, as they are the only trannys being killed.

r395 with social contagion there's more faux trans now than ever before. The numbers have risen by something like 350%. The "Confused Lesbian claims to be nonbinary or trans" stereotype is actually happening (e.g. Ellen Page).

You’re terrible r395.

r406 Glee had more than enough patronizing, self-important speeches during its first few seasons to make me lose all appetite for it. All shows are meant to be entertaining on some level - that's why they are called "Entertainment". Pose is wish-fulfillment and was definitely not based in reality.

If you look at the trans movement, it's mostly people cross-affirming each other for their "stunning" looks and "brave" actions. Of course that's going to attract (or create) narcissists. It's a different type of narcissism though - one fueled by victim mentality (such as the way the right wing operates) and guilt/social shaming used to manipulate people into affirming them, giving them opportunities and money, etc. Then you put them into shows like Pose or Transparent and the craziness multiplies with fame and ends badly.

They aren't thinking strategically because they BELIEVE their own hype and the affirmations from other people like them or who they have guilted or bullied into genuflecting to them that tell them they're at once so marginalized, hated, and always fighting like mad for anything they have, while also being stunning and brave and fearless for doing that and "living their truth".

All people like Mock are doing is saying "Hey Hollywood, you want to make a story with trans people in it, or use trans people to fill diversity quotas, you can bet you will regret it down the line because we will never be happy with anything you give us". Trans stories will still be made, but at some point there will be enough of these disasters that people decide it's not worth the trouble.

Janet Mock is probably the most highly compensated TWOC and former sex worker in America.

She could do a lot of things with that, not the least of which is to say at these awards shows, "Look how far I've come, with the help of some good people, and I hope to pass it on to others."

That's the appropriate response for a former prostitute who had a sex change and now makes $40,000/week.

Grin and BEAR, not BARE.

Grin and BEAR IT.

[quote] "Look how far I've come, with the help of some good people, and I hope to pass it on to others."

[quote]That's the appropriate response for a former prostitute who had a sex change and now makes $40,000/week.

Really, when you put it that way…

R419 hah, I think we all know that could never happen.

I think her sex work is over mythified. She has a masters from NYU. She wasn't turning tricks out of La Escuelita.

The latest Gallup poll (one of the most long-standing research orgs in the world) pus Trans at 0.6% of the population.

And for those math-challenged. 0.6% is LESS THAN 1%!!

Mock is full of shit about so many things. All these fucking trannies all claiming to be prostitutes. No one wants to fuck them for free let alone have to shell out for it.

The premiere is five minutes and I forgot how bad the acting is except for Porter.

five minutes in*

When you consider that trans is now "whatever the fuck I want it to mean" it's almost as useless a term as "queer". And since declaring yourself trans means you literally have always been trans, even without surgery or anything, then it's much easier to do and use it in lieu of an actual personality.

[...]

[...]

Lord, they're using the OJ run as part of the story. Lazy writing.

R423 😂

La Escuelita AZUCAR!

R433 Pimienta, papi!

Damon's been eating this past year. Coming out on the runway in a caftan.

Damn, Billy Porter acting the shit out of the material tonight.

The only thing more utterly boring than a trans story is... a coming out story. That might be a plus, but it's a very, very low bar.

[...]

[...]

[quote]"I f–ked up, y’all. I forgot who the f–k I was..."

That's impossible since clearly she's making up "who the f-k she is" as she goes along!

[...]

[quote]Admittedly, some tried to excuse her, saying she must be suffering from some form of mental illness crisis...

Yeah, he thinks he's a woman!

[...]

[quote]There is nothing wrong with being white and cis gendered.

Yeah, especially since there's no such thing as a "cis gendered" person, it is one of the many fruitcake inventions of the toxic Trans Agenda and their toxic vocabulary requirements!

R444, it wasn’t invented by the trans community.

yes it was, idiot

No, r444? I guess without the Gender Identity/Trans movement we would have heard it anyway? It's pure nonsense!

[quote]You bitches are transfixed by Mock.

I think it's the reverse, it was Mock's doctor who transfixed her!

Oh, come on! Give a gal a break.

I've heard worse speeches in front of a big tv crowd!

[quote]Billy Porter is a modern-day Stepin Fetchit.

Billy Porter is a modern-day Jennifer Lewis.

[...]

"But if you're so offended, stop watching Murphy shows."

I can assure you, we already have.

[...]

I did twenty minutes of the pilot, and some ugly tranny who looked like a crack addict riddled with Aids was lecturing everyone, about everything, and just did not care to continue.

riddled with the AIDS!

R455 Oh shit, that does read poorly. I meant I presumed it was an early indication that character would end up being positive.

One of my BEST friends was Vanessa, a trans that worked in a South End Boston laundromat and wasn’t glamorous at all. We’d take trips to NYC every weekend to Twilo. What I loved about her was as fun as she was she was very practical about what to expect and down for anything. She loved being taken care of but could also take care of herself if needed. I think it’s within the very DNA of trans people to push boundaries and that’s OK. You have to be a warrior to wear a dress 24/7 and put up with what they do. It didn’t end well for her but she had a FABULOUSLY bright life.

I miss her terribly.

[...]

R457 What happened to her?

She followed the advice of Janet Mock, became a hooker and was murdered.

Sorry Ms Mock but the first episode of the season you directed was OK, but episode 2 which you didn't, was great TV and Billy Porter was brilliant and earned his Emmy this year.

Billy Porter preaching is not Emmy worthy ever.

R49, she had a slew of health and money problems and died a few years ago. My only regret was not going out to party with her one last time, but she was already in a mobility scooter which would’ve been difficult.

When we were young gaylings I used to buy her bus ticket to Boston when she came with me before I bought a car. One weekend we had a terrible fight and I left her stranded in NYC with no money. When we made up, she regaled me in the story the next weekend how she went to Port Authority and begged one dollar at a time for the $64 to get back to Boston, and when she finally got what she needed, she was on a roll and made more than enough to buy herself a lunch too! LOL.

R463 I’m sure she sucked some cock for the money.

R463 Now you’ve got [italic]me[/italic] missing her, you frigid cunt!

R463 those are the original tough-as-nails trans, not the whiny, perpetually-offended trans/"nonbinaries" of today. The mistake is conflating the two.

R486,

That’s cause there two types of trans.

Actual real trans who are tough as fuck, fun, and rarely complain. They understand how difficult being a woman is.

Then there’s the Incel trans. These are straight male losers who nobody wants. They hate women and think women have fabulously easy lives where they get to play, manipulate and dispose of any men they want. They think all women dress likes whores. They think women are only good for sex so everything they do is sex related. Oh, and the ones that are black that continuously shout about BLM and how black is beautiful, how evil rich cis white men ruin everything ...well....they always end up falling in love with a rich cis straight acting white man!!! Lmao!!!!

R467 they're not all straight, unfortunately. The second type is the "confused Lesbian/gayling" trans. The third type is the straight "trans as a sexual fetish" trans. Both of the latter are the easily-offended types.

Gays understand how difficult being a woman is.

[quote]Oh, and the ones that are black that continuously shout about BLM and how black is beautiful, how evil rich cis white men ruin everything ...well....they always end up falling in love with a rich cis straight acting white man!!!

...or black or Puerto Rican trade who eventually kill them!

R470 or cops who make them suck or go to jail.

I haven't finished scrolling through this fascinating thread...

But I have seen several references to Mock and Murphy's relative ages (and an implied "generational" as well as racial and gender divide).

Janet Mock is (officially) 38. Hardly a kid.

Murphy is 55. So it's only 17 years separating the two of them.

Mock has got this on lock, fixing to raise her stock. How could she not? She m is the trans movements hock: a strutting, brave and stunning peacock!

What I find truly despicable is how he treated his boyfriend in front of everyone. Let’s dig deeper into this to demonstrate what a depraved individual JM is.

He asked him to stand up amongst his peers, so that he could humiliate him by publicly stating that he cheated on him, but it did not end there, he went on to further shame his boyfriend by demanding that forgive this trespass and stay in this relationship because he gets mine and does not want to alone. This sounds like familiar territory with the trans agenda. It’s all about me, mine with no regard to other’s feelings because regular people just don’t matter.

Then they all think they’re sexually irresistible and have to hook. Everyone is fetishizing and obsessed with their bodies... ok well I barf looking at their bodies. I think the only ones who want them are creepers like they are.

Still no clip? I'm starting to believe that was a PR stunt promoting the show's final season.

No such thing as bad PR.

r469, that's not true. I'd say half do. The other half are self-loathing gay men who fantasize about some of the worlds biggest losers simply because they are straight. They think women are spoiled and don't appreciate how much dick they can easily get. They think being a woman means acting like a diva whore all day long. They're basically gay incels.

$40,000 an episode is so much better than the tips on the overnight shift at the Waffle House.

So, has there been any further fallout for Lady Mock as of Monday, or is everyone out there on social media OK with this outrageous display of rage, destructiveness, and entitlement? If it were anyone else but a trans WOC, there would have been angry anti-Mock hashtag movement snowballing by now.

She wanted to be a woman so now she gets paid like a woman. Some people are never happy.

[...]

If you as a gay person let Glee affect you in any way that's just pathetic. It did a lot wrong but it was just a sometimes fun inconsequential show. Move on. Shows dont define communities.

It reminds me of the unhinged comments about Showtime's Queer as Folk. "This show doesn't represent ME! It makes ALL GAYS look bad!".

R482 Leave Britney Alone!

[...]

[...]

Is R486 a parody post? I can't tell.

[...]

What DO you find fun, r486 ?

[...]

R491's cat must have just died.

She needs a moment.

Oh, I see DL's Matt Antschler gained access to a PC with internet connection again. Looking at unhinged r486.

[...]

R491 No wonder that mental is blocked.

[quote]It was not fun and if you overlook the harm that it has done to the gay community, then you are actively complicit in that harm.

Said harm is only in your head.

The show's gay characters and couples became quite popular and got on the covers of major entertainment publications (sign of changing mainstream attitudes) .

The actors playing these characters repeatedly said they were overwhelmed by letters and tweets or in person by younger gays, bi's etc. with stories how the show inspired them to accept their sexuality and come out to family/friends, and how it changed the attitudes of their family members towards acceptance.

[quote]I do not find gay men being stereotyped as unmanly sexual predators "fun."

Huh? I can only remember one storyline about Kurt and Finn who were high school teenagers, and behaved as such. This was in the very first season when the show was still the original dark comedy/satire. Every single 'kid' character behaved despicably or created drama at some point or other.

The hysterics about it are quite amusing.

The boyfriend just posted on Instagram "You did good honey." So I guess this bitch can do no wrong.

R498 Chiiile… He’s playing the long game, to be sure.

R498 Are the ratings out yet? Cause I bet they will be sit, and that is the acid test in real life.

Glee was a bad show, but there's a reason why so many conservatives hated the show. A whole generation of kids was exposed to gay characters and a lot of them cared for them.

It's easier to hate what you don't know

Watched the premiere. Here’s the thing: the writing, for the better part of the series, has been abysmal. Terrible dialogue and speechifying.

I think MJ Rodriguez has something special but they saddle her with this corny, preachy mother and community speeches that Meryl Streep couldn’t make work.

The first episode last night was terrible and it was directed by Mock. She wants more pay but her writing and directing are shit.

The second episode was written and directed by the creator, Steven Canals, and it was much better.

Canals has been noticeably quiet about Mock and her rant. His accomplishments have been overlooked as Mock has gotten overpraised. She has probably benefitted the most from the show aside from Porter and Rodriguez.

Canals also can’t write dialogue. His scripts have generally been amateurish. (I do respect his accomplishment in bringing the series to life.)

Charles 'Janet' Mock is a sexual predator, and a very dangerous male.

Has her team announced her being admitted to somewhere due to "exhaustion"?

All my thoughts are with Angel right now. It’s been reported that he posted a compliment to Janet about how she handled herself. Huh! The layers to this is stunning considering she’s technically his boss. Dude could do SOOO much better than this emotional troubled woman. Then again, this may be a situation where Angel doesn’t think enough of himself to do better.

All the comments on social media from obvious Mock supporters saying people need to not focus on the personal relationship drama are hilarious. Mock is the one that opened that door herself in a very embarrassing way. It's not hearsay people are gossiping about.

Mock is the epitome of...

TRANS PRIVILEGE!!!!!

R508 - are people slamming Mock or praising her?

Pose is ridiculous. The actual trannies in Paris is Burning didn’t have the money to pass like the girls in this fantasy (delusion).

Cancel the bitch/dude!

R511 They don't pass.

R510 both

"Sista Janet Mock Transplains It All for You"!

Transplains lol

Looks like the current pose is to move on without comment, but with only praise from the fans.

The fucking hypocrisy of these Hollywood types like Sophia Bush and Tracie Ellis Ross who, if this was not a trans-identified man, would be calling for him to be fired for using their position to date and fuck cast and crew members.

Instead they're falling over each other going "Wow!"

Fucking hypocrisy.

If Mock didn't conceivably "pass" she wouldn't be "stunning", or "brave", she'd be hidden from view with no career, but because she fulfills straight peoples' ideas of strict gender conformity according to STRAIGHT PEOPLE she is lauded.

Same goes for the rather Drag Race personality Laverne Cox.

Wow, he's looking hard in the face there r517.

He looks ridiculous with those padded hips.

[...]

Define pass, how does JM look compared to a woman. Most of these staged pics play with angles to hide mannish features.

[...]

Y'all are blind. Mock is so hot and sexy. Look at her legs here -- so woMANly!

How is "transing anything but performative gender appropriation/cosplay to mask a mental condition?

Anyone?

R525, did you see the comment "How does it feel to reset the culture daily?" Such sycophancy. Don't some people ever get sick of degrading themselves?

It's disgusting that this Mock person is getting all this attention and praise, while she used her position to bed cast and crew members. If she was not a trans-identified person, she would be canceled. Instead people like Sophia Bush and Tracie Ellis Ross are blowing smoke up her ass saying how beautiful she is, overlooking her gross behaviour.

It really is a mockery.

R525 Does not pass at all

R525 not sure if it's the man hands, thick thighs, shoulders, or suspiciously bulging groin, but she wouldn't pass on inspection.

[...]

R525 Oh, dear.

Tittys and a dick? Long claw like porn nails? I couldn’t think of anything more fucking horrific.

[quote]What happened to her?

Found in the fluff and fold machine.

When will Janet Mock make her STUNNING and BRAVE appearance on magazine covers with the headline:

"Janet Mock SPEAKS: What happened that nighT and the complexities and trauma of living as a trans woman of color"

Pose is unwatchable. The one with curly mop hair was trying to ask for modeling contract. It was like children’s theater.

Cisgender is a clinical and biological term, it predates this nonsense and makes perfect sense to distinguish the majority of cisgender people from other pathologies and occurrences. Its a scientific term.

r537 no

Season 3 is beyond unrealistic so far. Janet Mock getting paid $40k an episode needs to refund the public for this messy schlock.

R537, "cisgender" is a term that was created by sociologists. Sociology is not a medical or scientific field.

R537 I'm Mental.

r537 It is not a clinical and biological term, despite what trans claim. "cisgender" was used by some annoying academics in the 90s in a journal and then the trans adopted it in 2007 to label everyone who was not them, and claimed it was for "fairness", although I have no idea how that works other than it's trans activists exerting dominance over language.

There's people, then there's "trans" people, who are, in fact, still people, but they have mental disorders so they think they're different. You can use "trans" to refer to the collection of mental disorders that usually accompanies the claim, the primary one being gender dysphoria but there's usually several more than that.

"nonbinary" is also not a scientific and biological term, it's used by confused gays and Lesbians (more so Lesbians) as well as straight people, except the primary mental disorder they have is wanting to feel special and be "different" from regular people. Hence, "nonbinary", where you can claim your specialness and change your pronouns and wear lipstick and/or dresses if you're a man or, I dunno, a fake beard if you're a woman (many Lesbians do not need fake beards as they already have them). Some trans lump nonbinaries under the "trans umbrella" so nonbinaries are also trans, but that doesn't make any sense because NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE IT'S ALL RIDICULOUS BULLSHIT.

"People not suffering from Gender Dysphoria" would never be a scientific necessity to categorize a population.

[quote] Instead people like Sophia Bush and Tracie Ellis Ross are blowing smoke up her ass saying how beautiful she is, overlooking her gross behaviour.

Birds of a feather flock together.

I don't want to waste my time explaining science to people here, but cis has been used in biology since at least the 1970s. It wasn't "invented" by feminist pseudo critical theorists in the 1990s, it was, for lack of a better word, appropriated by them as post modernists do with everything. Its a term used extensively for chromosomic variations and to separate them in categories.

[quote] "People not suffering from Gender Dysphoria" would never be a scientific necessity to categorize a population.

Have you ever read a scientific paper in your life? Whenever you have a new term, it is a requirement to create its opposite, you can't make a system without it, you can't even map the data you collect without it. I understand people's reservations with the Trans ideology, but let's not be idiots.

The prefix cis is used everywhere in science to oppose trans, both latin terms. You can't study molecular biology or chemistry without learning them. In chemistry you literally call all the compounds from the same carbon chain a CIS-something and TRANS-something if it belongs to its opposite.

[...]

The cis/trans shit in relation to "gender" isn't about biology or chemistry r546. In fact, it's about the opposite - delusions. There's no need to impose an "identity" on the majority of humanity just because some people with delusions want to identify as trans. I'm not "cis" because I don't call myself cis. Anyone trying to force me to call myself that can fuck off.

As for opposites, etc. this only shows up one of the many contradictions of the gender ideology. On the one hand gender is a spectrum, on the other hand it's a binary. What are non-binaries? Cis or trans?

I personally don't think gender theory is real, though I do concede transexuals exist, although I'm prone to believe they're always dysphoric. All this non binary etc shit comes from that mean butch dyke and her role playing pseudo science. I still think it is harmless considering the big picture, but maybe not, I'm not sure yet. Kids are being harmed by this so maybe I need a new opinion on that.

R545 "cis" nowadays is short for "cisgender" which was, in fact, not a scientific term, and was coined in a journal in the 1990s. It wasn't used by trans to label everyone else until 2007. So you can try to die on the hill that somehow "cis" is scientific but that doesn't mean it's being used that way today.

Also ^ misappropriating scientific terms that have very specific meaning in a very specific context is a tactic used by trans activists to give their claims a veneer of respectability. As you are attempting to do here by deliberately confusing the terms "cis" and "cisgender".

I was watching Pose’s second episode and damn. Neither Lil Papi or Angel can get a break. Lil Papi got a crackhead transgender girlfriend and Angel has Drama Queen Janet.

On the other hand, the fact that Lil Papi has what seems to be a professional job when he’s never displayed any hint of an IQ higher than room temperature is quite the accomplishment.

This is true r553. Shade well received. lol

Cis Boom Bah.

[quote]You can't study molecular biology or chemistry without learning them. In chemistry you literally call all the compounds from the same carbon chain a CIS-something and TRANS-something if it belongs to its opposite.

Yes, Mary, if only we WERE studying molecular biology instead of being bullied into the daily vocabulary demands of highly-regressive men in dresses chopping of their genitals while forcing us to applaud them!

Now back to your regular job of harassing your co-workers!

[quote] I don't want to waste my time explaining science to people here,

Get a big whiff of YOU, Madame Marie Curie!

I just don't understand this show! Why aren't they hanging out in their airplane hangars?

Janet should’ve kept the curls the straight hair is severe and brings out her male features.

^ Almost as much as his penis does.

Lil Papi wearing a suit and working at a big modeling agency is ludicrous. His lack of education shows in every word he speaks and he would never be employed by any respectable agency.

She said she got the chop but there’s a bulge in this pic.

Yeah she's got something down there

Looking at Janet’s Instagram page and noticed she doesn’t have a single picture with her boyfriend Angel. Angel baby c’mon now. You can do better than that.

That is a very manly looking physique. I don’t see a buldge as much as I notice a mans pelvic structure which is longer than a woman’s and is exaggerated by the cut of the bikini.

Also she has man feet she tries to minimize.

Thread Opened

[...]

I find it very funny that we have to respect the gender identity of trans people are being individual and without question, yet they INSIST non-trans people be referred to as cisgender.

Sorry, your mental illness does not change my self-identification or sexual orientation. I’m a male, not a cis male. And I’m gay, which means I’m not magically able to alter sexual attraction to keep up with the psychological whims of unstable people.

R569, yes, it sometimes really seems some trans people want the trans to be the only ones who can be called real men and women while the rest of us should be called cisgendered. It's totally idiotic that such a small group of people have managed to practically hijack the modern gay movement AND the liberal movements to make such demands.

I feel for trans people, I really do, since I get it's hard for them. I don't go as far as to label them all mental cases since not that long ago we were being labeled the same way. However I do believe they want too much too fast and many of their ways of trying to get there are wrong. Trying to trans pre-pubescent kids is just plainly wrong, and even with people under 18 there are just too many things that can go wrong. Especially because we're not dealing with exact science here. It's still basically a huge experiment that leaves behind countless victims with mangled bodies and destroyed psyches.

How about your start a thread to write your boring screeds on the word cisgender, and let the rest talk about Janet and the subject at hand?

Don't even get me started on Trans-Fat.

Janet at R571. She’s so pressed that her axe wound is bleeding.

I would be so happy if someone, preferably a cisgender female or gay male SNATCH that fine Angel away from Janet. He deserves better than this crazy bitch.

Terrific episode.

Something tells me that after season three of Pose dies down we aren't ever going to be hearing from Janet Mock again.

I assume by then this thread will be over too.

Who is this unhinged shvartze?

He is a terrible writer and director. And crazy.

Is she related to Chicago crystal addict ex-hooker turned real estate guy Michael Mock?