Plastic surgery aficionados, what *exactly* causes bad plastic surgery to look bad

Leave her alone!

She looks like she would have a speech impediment from that work.

R1 I just want to be educated!!!! I need to know what to avoid!!

She has a proper Glasgow smile - who killed her?

When she made the notorious Oscars appearance a few years back she said she had got fillers a few days before the show and they hadn’t settled.

[quote]Plastic surgery aficionados, what *exactly* causes bad plastic surgery to look bad

She's 88!!! it's going to come out somewhere, Mary.

The top half of her face doesn’t match the bottom half—like she was assembled wrong.

I say this with love...

She’s fabulous and admits that her surgery was a big misjudgment.

I love Kim Novak!

[quote] I say this with love...

this type of love I don't need

🗿🪆🤡🤖

Age naturally, OP. That’s how you avoid it. I still wanna know why Madonna’s eyes look like a basset hound and which dentist is responsible for the horrid Guy Smiley look I see from time to time (Simon Cowell/Brandon Flowers).

Guy Smiley looks like Kevin Nealon

Oh my...

I had to do a double-take because that looks just like Zac Efron in a blond wig. The likeness is remarkable. They must go to the same plastic surgeon.

OP, the overly plastic look is due to aggressive and continuous use of Botox and fillers and procedures like facelifts anf eyelifts. You never look young. You end up looking your age, only a freak with plastic surgery.

R11 Guy Smiley teeth are always the result of veneers. Why anyone would get those is beyond me. Braces and tray whitening give far more natural results. Plus the idea of grinding your teeth down to nubs grosses me out and is a way for the dentist to make you permanently dependent of them.

To give you an idea how people go down the slippery slope of bad plastic surgery: I went to a medispa the other day to redeem a gift certificate I had won at a charity raffle. The doctor tried really hard to upsell me on a million procedures even though I just wanted a simple facial. It’s one thing getting a little Botox for the “11 lines” but she brought out the mirror to “educate” me on how I needed Botox and fillers in several areas, pointing out “crows feet” that showed up only when she asked me to “smile really big and wide.” (When I did my regular smile, it wasn’t good enough for her because no lines were pronounced.) She claimed my smile lines would deepen with age (well, duh) and I “might” get marionette lines in 10 years time if I didn’t start with the fillers and Botox asap. Then came the whole laser spiel. I told her I only wanted a facial, which she did half heartedly, knowing I didn’t buy her schtick. I look pretty good for my age (non smoker, non drinker, SPF user), so I didn’t take her seriously but I could see how these types prey on insecurities.

Bottom line: eat healthy, sleep well, no alcohol, no smoking, shield from the sun, and maybe minor use of cosmetic procedures if you must, and you should be fine.

[quote]Bottom line: eat healthy, sleep well, no alcohol, no smoking, shield from the sun

gee, you have all the answers!

Let's remember her as she was, a stunning beauty.

Don't forget to never have contact with a man's dirty rear hole and in every possible way limit rare carnal contact to frottage. Never go near an uncircumcised penis, never tip more than 12%, and use shoe trees.

Looks like cheek implants.

Yikes, R15. I’ve already ditched dermatologists for what I considered predatory practices, but that example takes the cake. I feel like the medical community rallies around their own while patients are sent in like lambs to slaughter.

I think the cheeks are the most obviously bad area. Looks like a combination of implants and filler.

After listening to this plastic surgeon (Gavin Chan), I'm convinced that fillers are simply not temporary. On top of that, they move around to unintended locations. I think her fillers never dissolved and traveled down with gravity.

She started out with a large-ish bottom half of her face and it doesn't go well with those huge, flat-ish cheeks.

Chin implant too, her face is longer and wider. Poor Kim got talked in to 1 too many procedures.

Gee, you sound like a barrel of laughs, R15!

Sadd

R22, I thought it was a chin implant as well. But I looked up older (young) photos of her and she already had a large lower face. Not sure why she'd do a chin implant.

Horrorshow:

Kim Novak, artist.

She received two scholarships to attend the Art Institute of Chicago.

Are there cosmetic procedures that are worth it? E.g. nose job, or sagging neck skin removal?

The surgeon or the esthetician talks the victim into these procedures. Some of the procedures are offered free of charge. No such thing.

Kim probably had silicone injections (used for fillers back then) back in the 1970s and 80s. It can migrate, so that looks to be what is going on here.

For women - except for filling very thin lips, fillers always seem to be a mistake. Too much botox on the forehead makes the eyebrows go skyward and the forehead shiny like glass, but a little, and not replenishing it quickly, ie, letting some movement come back, is good. A good nose job is good. A traditional facelift is good and nothing can replace it. I am a fan of ablative laser peels, not too often, because they thin the skin.

The main thing is to take care of your face by using sunscreen, not smoking, little alcohol, and clean diet.

Kim's face isn't shiny, it's huge. Swollen.

[quote] Are there cosmetic procedures that are worth it? E.g. nose job, or sagging neck skin removal?

IMO, a *good* nose job is worth it. I think a subtle upper eyelid lift is worth it.

That said, I haven't had any plastic surgery. My skin simply doesn't heal well and I don't want to do any elective surgery.

Your girl Madonna is heading in this direction. Huge cheekbones, swollen face.

Whoever did Meg Ryan's should be arrested.

She was so cute in her day. I wonder what she would have looked like if she had aged naturally.

She was arguably the most beautiful woman in Hollywood. Now she looks like a monster.

I don't think these people are paying for their procedures and this is part of the problem.

This year's Oscar swag bag offered victim's free liposuction.

Free=botched!

Her cheeks look real fucked up

knowing what i know now, i'm not sure i would have gotten my plastic surgery after gastric bypass. i look weird. it looks not right and i think i'd rather look with some extra skin and not what i have now. but it was my choice. i do regret it.

You trade loose skin for huge, irregular scars. Not worth it.

[quote] She was arguably the most beautiful woman in Hollywood.

I disagree that Meg Ryan was even arguably the most beautiful in H-wood. Cute, yes. Girl next door, yes.

I think it’s that first hound dog feeling - where you turn your head quickly and the lower part of your face kind of follows - that sends most down the path. I’ll bet that’s where the need for fuller upper cheeks comes from.

But then, what happens when it’s time for dental implants or false teeth? That’s going to throw things off as well.

Smooth out the face and you still have to deal with your ropey neck. Are you lifting it up or stretching it back? Do you have the right skin that won’t produce noticeable scars?

R28 Deep laser on the face/neck - fractional, etc. The kind that costs $5000 and you need 2 weeks to recover.

Jane Fonda has a lot of work, tastefully done.

[quote]The top half of her face doesn’t match the bottom half—like she was assembled wrong.

She looks like a [italic]South Park[/italic] Canadian.

She clearly got that hatchet job on groupon or craigslist.

There's no such thing as cheap, good, plastic surgery. These people go to school for about a dozen years. If you are getting a face lift or injections for $150 you get what you pay for, bitches.

I thought she looked great in the '80s, but looking back she had the beginnings of the weird under-the-cheek lines even then.

And you have to go to a specialist, not a one size fits all surgeon and not a medi spa.

[quote]Kim probably had silicone injections (used for fillers back then) back in the 1970s and 80s. It can migrate, so that looks to be what is going on here.

Legit cosmetic surgeons and dermatologists at that time were using silicone in small amounts to fill wrinkles, not for large-volume "pumping" like the back-alley docs do (see Priscilla Presley at R26). When injected silicone used for cheek augmentation migrates, it eventually goes south and the cheeks start to look like kneecaps.

Kim Novak more than likely has badly done solid cheek implants, which could be removed but would require tightening the skin to compensate. That said, she's 88 and probably doesn't want to bother this late in her life.

Someone who was fucked up by bad silicone work in the '70s was the late celebrity realtor Elaine Young. She went to Dr. Jack Startz, the sleazy doctor who did Liberace and Scott Thorson's faces (played by Rob Lowe in [italic]Behind the Candelabra [/italic]). He pumped her cheeks, and they slipped and slid and required over 30 corrective surgeries. Again, though, reputable surgeons weren't using silicone in such large amounts.

There are a lot of very skilled surgeons who do good face lifts. The trouble is they are never publicized. But if you ever come across a headline of Actresses Aging Gracefully you can be sure every single one of them had at least one facelift done by a very skilled surgeon.

You know the plastic surgery is bad when they take skin sells from both Doris Day and Linda Evans and see the results.

Oh dearing myself.

Cells.

Oh dearing myself.

Cells.

Are you talking about your face, r39?

Those fillers never quite work. The PA had my dermotologist always has the latest thing done apparently. It's odd. I always feel a little self-conscious looking at her, like she knows I'm noticing the latest work.

Well, I want to have a full facelift; I just don’t know who to pick.

I am seeing a surgeon next week about getting my under eyes tightened up and bags removed. The Dr. I am seeing is not just a cosmetic guy but a really well qualified department Head of Ophthalmology at a major hospital, I was lucky to get an appointment with him. I inherited bags from a parent who developed them after they turned 45. My problem is not so bad yet, but seems to get worse every day. I am curious as to how long the scars will take to be invisible.

Which hospital?

All this anti silicone. The stunning Carmen Dell’Orrifice openly admits to silicone in her cheeks and a few other procedures. Didn’t go wrong for her. Just look at her! 89. Kim Novak is too much, too often, to aggressive. Ditto Pricilla Presley. Constant surgery to try and correct constant surgery. Desperate to look like they did at their peak they chase an impossible ideal. I would think they go to the best available and the surgeons are only doing what they ask. They don’t need a surgeon they need help coming to terms with growing old. The comedienne Kathryn Ryan say what’s wrong with growing old? Shows you didn’t die.

R59 In a major city in Australia. I got referred to the eye specialist by a plastic surgeon who operates from a ritzy med clinic, even though the med spa plastic surgeon is respected and internationally recognized, they did not want to take any chances with my eyes and sent me to see a Dr. who had the relevant eye degrees.

Carmen had it done right. She went to Dr. Norman Orentreich, who pioneered the microdroplet technique, which builds volume/collagen production with tiny amounts done over years. Priscilla Presley and Elaine Young and the trans lady at R49 had big blobs of silicone shot into their cheeks, which is basically a recipe for disfigurement later on. It looks good at first but then starts to droop over time and looks like a golf ball in a sock.

Thanks r61 for responding.

Also, Priscilla Presley went to an unlicensed "doctor" who injected her with industrial-grade silicone.

Are you in the medical field r62? You sound knowledgeable.

As you age, you lose the fat in your face. This causes the skin to wrinkle and sag. Creases, furrows and folds develop.

Plastic surgery techniques are to change, compensate and reverse these developments.

I've never seen anyone who looked good with cheek implants or fillers in their cheeks. I have no idea what they hope to achieve. Also do not understand oversized lips or the strange current eyebrows.

[quote] Whoever did Meg Ryan's should be arrested. She was so cute in her day. I wonder what she would have looked like if she had aged naturally

I have always heard that the way to approach plastic surgery is to think of it as polishing an apple, not trying to turn it into an orange. Meg Ryan wanted all the facial features she didn’t have naturally. Defined chin and jawline, full lips, high cheek bones... God knows what else.

Many people are allergic to silicone. You entire immune system can inflame and remain stressed on toxic high-alert with just on filler.

You're just jealous, OP.

R69 Facial filler is hyaluronic acid, not silicone. Hyaluronic acid is naturally occurring in the body; however, cultured HA is grown with bacterial cultures and some people do have adverse reactions but those are usually reversible. I think they can cause granulomas—lumps in the tissue—rarely. Silicone should never be injected into a person's body.

In breast implants, it's sealed inside bags. I can't understand anyone having bags of gelatinous goo surgically implanted into their tissue. Insane.

Facial filler may be hyaluronic acid now but it was silicone. Carmen states in an interview her cheeks have silicone in them a procedure no longer done and her sunburn laser treated. Fucking majestic!

Sometimes breast implant bags literally explode inside the chest cavity and cause sepsis. So horrifying. Glad that the trend for breast implants is going away.

It’s a pity that now the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and that the trend for young women is now to get full masectomies. Healthy breasts A-D are beautiful, why mess with them?

Then why ‘mess’ with anything? Leave it all alone. It’s not for you to judge and decide a nose job is all right but breasts are wrong to be touched. But if you’re going to, do it with care. All those actresses/women desperate to always appear sexy. This is how you age gracefully. In real life She looks wonderful casual and natural but in haute couture she a living piece of art.

Carmen dellorifice does look great but hercheek implants are also quite obvious, but they are tiny and tastefully done. I wonder what skinny old people look like without cheek implants. So what did she get done- she definitely had a facelift and gets botox and some eye procedure.

The only thing I would like done is something for better skin. As a pale white guy, my face skin has brown spots, unevenness and just looks crappy. I’ve done microdermabrasion which was a minor improvement for a few days but not that big of a difference.

I’m thinking that “ablative” laser thing sounds interesting. Any advice for pasty white skin guys - who didn’t use SPF or avoid alcohol for 40 years?

Just Google laser surgery in your area, R76 and go to realself.com for loads of info. There are many types of lasers and sometimes the dr uses a few during one procedure. You get IPL (intense pulsed light) for brown spots.

A lot of celeb women have that Cat Lady look. It's awful. As a man, I want the guy who did Joe Biden's face. Because he looks damned good. A tweak here and there.

Jane Fonda looks wonderful.

[quote]Are you in the medical field [R62]? You sound knowledgeable.

No, but I know someone who is. I was also friends with a group of drag/trans entertainers in my hometown back in the '80s who had insider knowledge of the underground "pumping" scene.

It's well known among beauty mavens that Carmen is a former patient of Dr. O. His son took over his practice and uses the microdroplet technique on patients with severe acne scarring.

David Orentreich also uses his father's technique on HIV patients with facial wasting.

Well, these days, so many YOUNG women are getting fillers. They look scary, yet they all seem to think it's sexy. I wonder if there will be such a thing as "lip sag" as these women age.

Too much Botox can also make eyebrows sag as well as raise them.

The zygomatic arch (or the midface) is overly filled, causing her eyes to look smaller and practically disappear. She [italic]may[/italic] have implants underneath the filler, or her doctor may have just been overly aggressive with a poly-L-lactic filler such as Scupltra. Her midface doesn't appear to me to be filled with a standard hyaluronic acid filler.

My mother has had two face lifts, including eyes, neck and cheeks. Classic face lifts that pull the skin back and tuck behind the ears stretch the skin and they usually also remove fat. Eyelifts when the lids are drooping usually remove the double eyelid fold and that's where you get the Asian or feminized look, even on men. Too much tight stretching doesn't give the face it's natural expressiveness and the Asian eye look on non-Asian people or feminine round eyes on men who didn't have this before (Kenny Rogers, I see you) just doesn't look right. That's where it goes wrong.

Also if you're trying to add features that aren't there (chins, jaws) -- it usually doesn't work. (Kim Novak)

Fillers don't always dissolve right and if they're cheap, knock offs (like the ones done in TJ) beware. Your face can look hard or mottled (Mickey Rourke). Also if you don't care of yourself post surgery. (Mickey Rourke). Cheek implants almost never improve anything. The chipmunk look is ridiculous. (Nicole Kidman)

[quote] As a pale white guy, my face skin has brown spots, unevenness and just looks crappy.... I’m thinking that “ablative” laser thing sounds interesting. Any advice for pasty white skin guys - who didn’t use SPF or avoid alcohol for 40 years?

Caucasian skin responds well to lasers, so, I would definitely explore that. IME, dermatologist are like the car salesmen of the medical world. They can be difficult to deal with. I would ask around to find a dermatologist who's not a car salesman.

Drink more water, use SPF (sunscreen), get enough sleep, and cut back on the alcohol.

TV Evangelist Joyce Meyer looks like The Joker.

How can you be seen in public after these horrific botch jobs? Don't you know how hideous you look?

R72, I saw an interview with Carmen and she said she in the late 70’s or early 1980’s and dermabersion, a procedure that sands the top layer of you skin off. The down time is long and the results and unpredictable so it is not done anymore. Lasers are safer and more controllable.

I had dermabrasion in the early '80's R89 and it is a terrible procedure. Don't get me wrong, it did was it was intended to do, but the down time was terrible. It is still used today.

At the age of 27 i decided to get a nose job. I felt it was too big for my face. Consulting with a top facial plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills, he said my nose was fine but because i had a rather long thin face, that was plane/flat (which I’ve since come to know as BDF). He suggestion i need more contours on my face and said that cheek implants would do the job and make what i consider a too big for my face nose, less apparent.

And he actually said that if i wanted a nose job, that i would have to go to another doctor because he would not do it. So i trusted him and got the check implants and it changed the whole look of my face for the better, he’s used my body fat to fill in around the implants to give it a little more heft (this was before fillers existed). It’s been 30 years and i have no regrets and in that time absolutely no has ever guessed that i had cheek implants, only after i tell them and let the feel the edges can one possibly know it.

I tried to find a photo of what the implants looked like and the best i could find are these below. As you can see they are very then and in no way could anyone have implants so big to look like Kim Novak. Her swelling is do to too many fillers and gravity pulls them down and the puddles at the bottom of the face.

>Are there cosmetic procedures that are worth it? E.g. nose job, or sagging neck skin removal?

Blepharoplasty.

Neck skin removal is probably OK. I've never seen "botched" neck skin removal.

Skin aging, sagging, and wrinkling isn't just about having more skin.

Pulling it tighter and tighter with multiple surgeries is only going to do so much. Jamming stuff under it to inflate it like a balloon is only going to do so much.

There's only so much pulling and tugging it can take and the face has some of the most delicate skin.

R57 Only go for consultations with board certified surgeons who charge for the consultation. The doctors who charge are those that can, they are not desperate for business but plenty busy with valuable time. You can be more confident you’re seeing someone who truly cares about doing good work, has a waiting list of clients and will be honest with you.

For anyone reading this, plastic surgery can always go bad. If you meet with a doctor and he downplays risk, go to a different doctor. Ask what procedures popular procedures the doctor wont do. If they'll do anything, go elsewhere.

lots of drs are now refusing to do brazillian butt lifts because of the high casualty rate. you dont want a dr willing to kill you to make money

I went to a plastic surgeon and had a big surgery. as he said "I can always make it worse." Surgery is usually not about creating perfection its about minimizing a problem or disfigurement as much as possible.

She looks like Mr. Sardonicus

R37 Celebrities pay for plastic surgery. They see doctors who charge well above market rate. Agencies make informal referrals too. The only "celebrities" who get procedures for free are the ones who make it part of a publicity stunt for the doctor.

Doctors who advertise are a red flag. Not a deal breaker, but it shows they are not getting enough referrals to fill their practice.

As of 10 years ago, The chief of plastic surgery at Cedars Sinai would not do publicity at all. He would only speak to reporters on background. It was on his website explaining that he is happy to help journalists looking to get accurate information about the field and specific procedures but was not looking for media exposure. At the time that seemed appropriate.

I dont know if I'd hold it against a doctor today who did media stuff but keep in mind, the Dr who operated on Kanye's mom went on Oprah and wrote a book about plastic surgery for black women and he was totally unqualified in the field and killed Kanye's mom.

I'm a pasty white guy with acne scars, so I'll recount my experiences with different procedures for the guy above who asked.

The first I had done 20 years ago when I was 20 was microdermabrasion. It was new-ish back then and was done by a cosmetic surgeon. It can now be done at home; it's just exfoliation. It didn't help at all with my acne scarring but it may help a little with hyperpigmentation.

Years later, I had Fraxel Re:store, a non-ablative fractionalized laser treatment. It worked somewhat for my acne scarring as well as evened out my skin coloration. People with very pale skin do best with laser resurfacing because it can cause hypopigmentation, and because I am very fair, my doctor turned the machine way up. I had that procedure done four times over several years and each time was a bit more improvement.

About five years ago (age 37-38), my skin was getting noticeably older looking, which I only care about because I am hyper-focused on acne scarring and the less smooth the skin is, the more the scars show. I saw a cosmetic surgeon about the collagen loss. She wanted to do microneedling. I opted instead for Fraxel Re:pair, which is the ablative form of Fraxel that only a cosmetic surgeon can do. (My dermatologist did the non-ablative one.) I knew how much Fraxel hurts (it HURTS, even with numbing cream), but this one was like having my face scraped off with razor blades. It also made me look monstrous for several days with a little bleeding and a lot of peeling. It worked very well for the skin texture; however, I have permanent little Fraxel dots on part of my face. Discoloration from the laser. That did not happen with the non-ablative laser.

Now that the lasers have been around for a long time, some people are complaining that they believe the treatment may break down collagen over time, making skin look even worse. I think I look my age and my scars are not as bad as they would have been without the treatments and so I consider them money well spent for me, but everyone has their own meaures of success.

I did a tiny amount of a thin filler called Belotero that worked very well for the scarring for six weeks but although it made my skin look a lot better, I noticed it changed the overall look/shape of my cheeks in photos and decided not to do it again because it looked strange to me.

Doctors now also commonly do subcision for acne scars--which the surgeon did a little bit when she did the filler--but I decided after the filler experiment I am done with trying to fix myself cosmetically.

Wow, sounds like you've been through a lot, R99. I've never heard about lasers possibly affecting collagen. I'm glad you quit doing procedures (for now, at least). I used to get lasered to try to even out my complexion. Also used hydroquinone. I have also quit. I use SPF, though.

Subcision sounds torturous even though they numb your face for it.

R101 Subcision is probably half as painful as fraxel lasers. It's not that bad. Fraxel vaporizes columns of skin and collagen with laser light.

This thread is fascinating. I love hearing about the super exclusive doctors that don’t have to advertise. It truly feels like if you don’t know somebody who knows somebody, it would be hard to find one for yourself.

Any plastic surgeon recommendations?

[quote] Eyelifts when the lids are drooping usually remove the double eyelid fold

What can one do in lieu of that if it’s so feminizing or gives the Asian eye to non-Asians?

I follow someone on social media who transformed her body from "Miss 6 O'CLOCK " to Jessica Rabbit through surgery and injection. Extreme but natural enough you wouldn't know she's had all these procedures if she hadn't mentioned it.

She went back to the same MD for a rhinoplasty and he butchered the procedure.

He's good for procedures from the neck down.

You need a specialist for the procedure you are considering and you'd better be prepared to spend a great deal for their expertise.

[quote] What can one do in lieu of that if it’s so feminizing or gives the Asian eye to non-Asians?

You have to find a doctor that has some finesse. Here's an example. This guy also had a brow lift (and an upper eyelid lift).

R20 not all dermatologists are cosmetic dermatologists. You shit stain.

[quote] I disagree that Meg Ryan was even arguably the most beautiful in H-wood. Cute, yes. Girl next door, yes.

I wasn’t referring to Meg Ryan and have no idea why you think I was.

Thank you for all the insightful responses so far. I started the thread because I was genuinely curious. The odds of me getting plastic surgery (unless it's some sort of reconstructive surgery after an accident) is slim to none, I'm afraid of unnecessary medical procedures!

I just find bad plastic surgery so interesting, because so many of these celebrities just end up looking deformed like Kim Novak. Good plastic surgery seems to be generally unclockable, which is the point. Bad plastic surgery just seems to cause these celebrities to fall into a cycle of getting more and more to fix what the first surgeon fucked up. In the Kim Novak case, it's difficult for me to imagine that she could have aged WORSE naturally than how she looks.

Someone, inevitably will say that Mickey Rourke was trying to fix his nose, which got broken from boxing, and voila. A desire to fix a broken nose doesn't have to go that far.

After all these years I still can't quite figure out what type of nose the Jackson family were trying to create with plastic surgery. I don't think I've seen very many people with a skinny snout nose with 2 slits for nostrils.

LaToya was pretty to begin with.....she didn't need all that surgery (you could say the same for pretty much the entire Jackson clan)

Like... were their noses SUPPOSED to look like this after the surgery?

They went to a surgeon who did not know how to work on Black people.

R49 you are naive. Bitd they were doing large volume silicone where ever you wanted it. Believe me, I should know. Fortunately, I only got laugh lines filled, and a little in my cheeks and have had no problems for 25 years. This was done on Park Avenue and not by a “Pumper.”

Meg looks similar to the cat lady who also has silicone migration issues.

R166 the Jacksons kept redoing the nose and with different surgeons. They were bound to be disasters. Jermaine was handsome, but I think he had cheek implants and took them out or bad silicone work. Between the face, all of the greasyness, and that hair, he is threatening to take MJ’s crown for the most crazy looking Jackson.

R118 I just can't figure out what their IDEAL nose was supposed to be! Like, what kind of nose were they going for? Surely LaToya didn't bring a picture of a gray alien with her to the plastic surgeon's office.

Janet can’t keep a consistent weight so anything done to her face is going to migrate with the weight changes.

Those of us who have the Oprah yo-yo metabolism know plastic surgery and tattoos are dangerous.

It could stay a sparrow on my chest or become a fat crow on my moob. Who knows?????

R117: so your silicone has lasted for 25 years no problems?

I think you only can maintain a somewhat natural look when your skin hasn't sagged too much. So, regular plastic surgery procedures are better than waiting a decade and then having a major face lift. Sometimes it's just the implant that's too big or has the wrong shape for your face.

Barbara Feldon is another bizarre case of plastic surgery going wrong.

Same as Heidi Klum, she got a bargain basement Jackson-style nose job and it’s really distracting.

Barbara is 86 in that video!

[quote] The doctor tried really hard to upsell me on a million procedures even though I just wanted a simple facial.

If I asked my doctor for a simple facial he'd have a heart attack. But he IS kind of cute.

There's nothing wrong with a little creme filling...

Sorry, here's a closer look.

R126, Morgan is giving updates on her hip replacement surgery on twitter and it looks like she has a stylist visit her before she shoots video. She’s looking good.

R128, she's actually looking like she's about to burst into tears behind that frozen smile and all that rubber in her cheeks.

Can you show me an example where cheek filler looks good?

I know someone here who has a Jackson-style nose. She is a big, tall blond of eastern European extraction and the pixie nose looks completely unnatural. She deals with her misery and dissatisfaction by scrutinising and critiqueing other people's faces. I have since ghosted her.

The thing is, a lot of these celebs may look okay on TV -- even in high-def. But when you get up close...

A TV or movie camera can put all kinds of filters on their lens to make people look good.

I'm beginning to think i got a botched gynecomastia surgery. My nipples look like Kim Novak's smile!

[quote]The thing is, a lot of these celebs may look okay on TV -- even in high-def.

Many high-def cameras include on-the-fly automatic fleshtone retouching. For off-line editing, there's a plug-in called "BeautyBox." Input a craggy old lady and you get very smooth skin on the output.

What field are you in, r134?

R121 I had silicone injected in my laugh lines 15 years ago and it has lasted without a problem. I had a skilled doctor put it in.

What is the best thing for the beginnings of jowls?

Lower face lift?

So where do they pull the skin if they remove your jowls. Is it behind your ears and the scar is in the hardline?

Have threadlifts improved.in recent years?

R121 yes, my Park avenue silicone has never caused any problems. I also have a small amount in my butt and no problems there either. Silicone got a bad rap from people who were getting large quantities in one session. People were doing it too young so when their face went South so did the silicone: in unpredictable ways. Finally, some people would get a big load injected only to find out that were allergic to silicone. Then they had a big problem. Bitd no one knew how to get it out and even now most docs don’t want to try to extract unencapsulated silicone

You can still find some Docs working with silicone using the microdroplet method. (See link). It’s good for lips, scars, small nose alterations and stuff like that.

R139 my scars are in front and behind the lower ears. Jowling and thick necks run in both sidesmof my family and it sucks because there are no easy fixes other than face/neck lift.

Cosmetic surgery seems to work best as an extension of theatrical makeup, to create effects that look good on camera with the right staging. Which is probably what those expensive discreet celebrity surgeons specialize in. They're not going to indulge your fantasies. They'll tell you what you need and what won't work and if you don't like it you can fuck off to one of the hacks.

What I don't get is how people exteriorise a crazy inner vision of themselves, eg, the Jacksons, especially Michael. I also do not get is how surgeons are persuaded to go along with them in a folie á deux, eg, giving a woman enormous breast implants. I know a surgeon who refuses to go any bigger than a DD. He doesn't want his reputation to be associated with a freak show.

It's all about the teeth. I never realized Tom Cruise has a monotooth or that Vanessa Paradis is a human water fountain.

The only pass for bad teeth is Steve Buscemi. His career revolves around them.

I haven’t heard anything about thread lifts getting better.

I remember seeing Mary Tyler Moore in person and was horrified. The face was a ghoulish configured skeleton. I subsequently saw her on TV and realized cosmetic surgery works for people in film - but in real life, cosmetic surgery is almost always noticeable and disturbing.

The problem with plastic surgery and fillers is the minute you notice them, you can’t see anything else

R131, I thought that was Kellyanne at first

What exactly are thread lifts?

Does Barbara Corcoran have one? On Shark Tank, she appears in some camera angles to have cables inside her face, under her skin. I find it really disturbing to look at. She looks great for her age otherwise, but the lines are unsettling.

According to Lorry Hill, on YouTube, don't get a thread lift. She said it's too expensive, temporary, and painful.

Steve Buscemi looks like he got his teeth worked on.

Buscemi actually looks way better now than he ever did

Well, his wife died...

Remember when you could get skin like a fitted sheet for six times the cost of a sofa re-upholstering?

[quote]What field are you in, [R134]?

Retired broadcast engineer. I try to keep up with new technology. Today's HD really doesn't care how bad you look in the mirror, you'll look fine on the teevee anyway.

Re newscasters like Andrea Mitchell looking better on TV, besides studios having better lighting, CNN and MSNBC both use some kind of "live Photoshop" filter that smooths out skin of people on camera. I don't notice it at all on my TV, but my father always has the news on his TV, and when CNN and MSNBC hosts move their heads quickly or turn their heads, the technology can't keep up with the sudden movements and the wrong part of the person's face is blurred. I was really confused when he got the new TV and that started happening, but the filter clearly identifies the forehead and cheeks and blurs them to smooth out wrinkles, etc.

I met Jake Tapper a few years ago because he spoke at my organization's conference, and I honestly didn't recognize him at first until he spoke. He looked at least 15 years older in person and kind of gaunt. I still like him and he wasn't unattractive, really, but much older looking. I noticed at the beginning of COVID when the hosts began broadcasting from their homes, Tapper looked like the real-life version of himself for several days before the network lit or filtered better through Zoom or whatever technology they've used.

Wow, that explains it. I’ve seen a couple on-air announcers who look like —if this was a still photograph—that the Gaussian blur filter in Photoshop had been too heavily applied. I don’t have cable so I don’t watch it regularly. The only name I can remember is Shep Smith on Fox News (seen in passing!)

Kim Novak's silicone cheek implants are D-cup size which stretch out her face - that's it.

Kim also had a nose thinning a couple of decades ago. As a result, her face is all out of proportion. What I don't understand about people wanting this kind of surgery is it makes the eyes look SMALLER. Even big-eyed Liza Minnelli now has small beady eyes because of all the plastic surgery. Lee Grant is over 90, and has tiny squinty eyes due to massive cheek implants. I don't get it.

Some of you may want to see the show called BOTCHED, which is now run in marathons on E! They fix botched plastic surgery, mostly noses and breasts, but everything else too. On Tues it's on 4AM to 10AM, then again at 12PM to 6PM.

Yeah I saw a couple of episodes of Botched. It’s an annoying reality show but the one surgeon Dr. Nassif is really an artist.

You'll see how STUPID people can be in their quest to look different through plastic surgery...botched plastic surgery.

Too much?

WTF

A well-known plastic surgeon in our area asked me if we could trade services. I'd handle his issues and I'll get plastic surgery in return. I told him I didn't want plastic surgery. He then told me I needed it. I ended the meeting then.

I can see getting one surgery to do your neck and jawline to tighten the skin, but mid-face and eyes are begging for frankenstein's monster.

Wise r163. You would end up as a patient on BOTCHED!

Lower face lifts (neck and jowls) or "mini" face lifts look good. There are some great before/after photos on line. I think it's worth doing. Nothing ages you faster than saggy jowls and a turkey neck. I recently lost 40 lbs and plan on losing about 20 more. My neck already has a bit of turkey neck going on and it's really bothersome. I could definitely see getting a lower face lift at some point.

Other than the neck and jowls, I fantasize about getting some subtle tightening.....a procedure that would have the same effect as when you put your hands on the side of your face, from forehead to chin, and pull back ever so slightly. That would be perfect. After all these years and so many advances in plastic surgery, why can't they just do something like that without it looking weird?

I had to have a benign tumor removed from my forehead near my hairline and it was horribly painful. I can’t imagine willingly undergoing a more advanced procedure out of vanity. My plastic surgeon was brilliant though and my scar is barely noticeable.

[quote] Yeah I saw a couple of episodes of Botched. It’s an annoying reality show but the one surgeon Dr. Nassif is really an artist.

His ex-wife looks like she had too much and bad plastic surgery. Looks like the lion on Beauty and the Beast.

Who was your plastic surgeon, r167?

I had IPL last week and I thought IT was painful. I can’t imagine doing another - more painful - laser. I felt like she was using a taser on my face. Hurt like a bitch!

I had it done too. It was like snapping a hot rubberband on your face. I didn’t see much difference after the redness and small scabs went away, unfortunately.

R170 Fraxel hurts like hell. I've never had IPL but the more moderate Fraxel feels like a hot match being dragged across your face after a half hour of numbing, and ablative Fraxel feels like a red-hot poker, hydrochloric acid and razor blades. But the pain is only at the moment the laser is being moved across the skin. Afterward, it just feels like a sunburn. Needles are nothing at all compared with lasers.

Too much of it directed at changing someone’s face. Used judiciously while remaining focused on the natural features of someone’s face and it can be effective. I don’t understand why the former go that route.

R173 A lot of people obviously have cosmetic surgery to "correct" characteristics that don't fit a European ideal of beauty, making their noses smaller, etc.

But a lot of aging people don't intend to change their faces and believe (and are told by doctors) that they are keeping their natural features as they are and just staving off the disfiguring ravages of age. So when they fill their cheeks and lips, all they are doing, they believe, is replacing lost volume so that they can continue to look like themselves. When they have their teeth whitened and replaced, all they are doing is restoring their youthful appearance before they were worn and stained by decades of life.

What surgeons and dermatologists won't discuss is that aging is not just volume loss and sun damage and physical wear. Aging results in bone loss. Bone lost in the skull causes structural changes that actually do change the face shape, from diminishing cheek bones to a shrinking jaw. No amount of filler can take its place: filler is goo that floats on top, not scaffolding that supports from underneath. And as bone erodes and makes more room to be filled, skin becomes more lax and wrinkles. Doctors fill in at first to smooth out wrinkles, but eventually they have to pump the whole face full to inflate the lax skin to keep it looking smooth *and* to compensate for bone loss.

It's absolutely crazy to me that we understand human beings look completely different from ages one to three to five to 12 to 18, and then we assume that aging really should stop at 25 or so and there is something wrong with people who look different at 40, 55, 65 and 80, as if they have failed to take care of themselves. To me, a 60-year-old woman striving for a 30-year-old face is not laudable. It's like an 18 year old having corrective surgery to make her face look six years old. It's a collective mental illness, like if a frog had leg removal surgery to look younger.

A conservative amount of botox and filler can still make a face appear more "rested." No more than one syringe each of Restalyne, etc. In each cheek and no more than one syringe of filler in aging lips/liplines. At most, one additional syringe for spot treatment on naso-labial folds, temples or other areas of hollowing. Just this amount of injectables alone can cost about $2000 to $3500 in a major metropolitan area.

^Keep in mind this needs to be repeated about 3 times a year - it adds up and you could take a month-long European vacation for what it costs to maintain a face with injectables.

I would love for some procedure that would tighten my jawline. I do fantasize about that as well as surgery for my eyes so I wouldn’t look so damn tired all the time. Aging is a bitch.

R177 - I think this guy has had both surgeries you want. What do you think?

He’s had a lot of surgeries in general. Plus he’s young.

Thoughtful post, R174. But it's more than that. The desire to freeze time is also tied up with fear of death. We see our own mortality looming closer every day as we watch our faces slowly age.

He's wasting his money and looks gruesome

Like r167, I needed surgery that would leave an ugly scar on my face for a basal cell carcinoma. There's a skin graft on my face that's so well done no one notices unless I point it out. This was done by Jean Cukier, M.D., in Houston.

If you seek him out, I warn you: even for a surgeon, he's a jerk. I compared notes with a nurse who worked at an ambulatory surgical center. We agreed he did beautiful work, but was otherwise to be avoided. He trained as a hand surgeon. That's not rare for plastic surgeons. They do rotations in orthopedic, neurological and plastic surgery.

Jean Cukier, M.D is a male? That's probably why he's a jerk, girl's name.

Whoops, poor editing. I meant to write that in my case, the surgery was for a BSE, not that r167 had the same diagnosis.

I have friends who work in reality TV. On plastic surgery shows, they always have clients who have problems or who have bad results, they just dont air those segments.

Mickey has a new face.

He looks like he also got a new pompadour wig.

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She looks anorexic.

R189 Well, that goes without saying re: Lara Flynn Boyle.

Well, I for one think Kim Novack looks marvelous!

Michael Jackson's goal was to turn himself white, and getting his nose fixed and complexion bleached probably did help boost him into the superstardom he enjoyed in the 1980s.

WHY does this keep coming up up on my new feed?

Michael Jackson may have wanted to "be white" in the 1980s-90s, but his base was black, black-white. If anything, his "transformation" was a detriment.

MJ was filled with self loathing. He didn't want to be white, he wanted to erase himself.

thinking about getting a chin implant as i've always had a weak chin especially in side profile, thinking i might need some lipo though as well for the fat underneath my chin and i have no distinct jawline... i'm hoping i won't need a JAWLINE IMPLANT OR JOWL surgery....don't want to go THAT deep into it all plus i couldn't afford it...

r192 Michael's skin didn't start to really look white until the early 90s.

I think MJ wanted to be Diana Ross, at least when he was starting to get the surgeries, but I think at some point even that wasn’t white and effeminate enough and he just went further and further down the rabbit hole.

Diana Ross never tried to look white.

Neither did MJ.

no? Indonesian?

....

I wanted to keep him a secret because all the demand he'll get will raise the price for ME when I finally decide to do it, but look at the work of this doctor on IG. He does really good plastic surgery

He says himself that he’s world renowned. One mention on DL will hardly amp his profile further than it already is in NYC. This kind of surgeon is booked to the gills.

PS one woman looked so much better than her before pic and then I saw how many procedures she had done. He did a beautiful job but that is a big risk and big money!

Yes r204 but he seems worth it. He really knows what he is doing. If only more surgeons like him existed then maybe we wouldn't be seeing these humanoid chimera looking creatures all over the place.

R5 It was reported that after reading all the negative comments on data lounge about her plastic surgery the day after the Oscars Kim was so devastated and has not left her home since. That being said, I'm happy to see she has found solace in painting.

As someone who had reconstructive plastic surgery after weight loss and am totally down to have procedures in the future if I can afford them:

Any plastic surgeon's IG or website will show you the successes. There are many. They don't show you the infections, problems along the way, patients who died on the table or after surgery, etc. And that happens. My friends grandmother died during a facelift in her 60s. I dont think it (necessarily) reflects on the doctor. This is surgery. There are no guaranteed results. They can always make things worse. And its always unncessary to live a happy life and results dont last forever.

The best thing is to stay on top of procedures that are minimal and as close to natural as possible. A laser treatment wont kill you.

Also, keep up on the news and conventional wisdom. I have been told by a dermatologist (who will not be making money off my procedures) that Fraxel stimulates collagen growth for years. Someone else on this thread says they heard it might do long term damage to collagen. Both might be true for some patients.

Cosmetic and laser Procedures also get more effective over time. The peeling and pain of Fraxel is optional--same result can be achieved with three treatments of the clear and brilliant laser with no downtime or facial molting. But a dermatologist who owns a Fraxel laser might not tell you that if they dont have Clear and Brilliant in their office. A laser costs $100k or more. The derm I know has both. I may do Fraxel but I missed my window before summer because you have to totally avoid sunlight for 4-6 weeks after or results are wiped away. I am doing Fraxel because its cheaper--I pay based on dr's cost not the retail price. And one procedure is cheaper than 3.

I have a friend who’s a heart surgeon and he doesn’t think anyone should get elective surgery because there’s too much risk, more than people think.

I dislike my jowls and the marionette lines around my mouth, but am trying to accept the changes. I don’t have twenty grand lying around for a facelift, and that may be a good thing. Is it naive to think that the people who love you will love you even when you’re old? I always saw the sweetness in my grandmothers face and thought she looked beautiful.

I use Retin A and non ablative laser. That’s all I can afford and feel like doing for now.

R204 I’m not particularly liking his nose work. His other work is decent to good.

Demi Moore had some awful work done recently

People who get any kind of work generally turn almost immediately to focusing on something else about their appearance that they dislike. And on and on. It becomes a bottomless pit of need and expense versus the alternative of learning to accept yourself and the aging process.

And this: the money you spend on it could be helping accomplish positive things for society through philanthropy. Personally, I’d prefer to help save dogs or provide poor kids with meals than on doing things to my face that telegraph my insecurities and make me look unnatural.

I had a near perfect face, pretty good body. I'm not getting plastic surgery because I realize I must age and it's better than the alternative. I have a full head of grey hair, allergic to hair dyes/rinses. I'm glad I have hair. Currently working off 20 pounds of covid weight, ten pounds to go. I'm 60 years old and HAPPY.

I’m doing if I can afford it: neck/jowls maybe a full facelift. No nose, no special eye surgery, no cheek/chin implants. It’s a risk, but my life is kinda fucked anyway so if I die, who cares.

Be aware, guys, recovery time may be a lot longer than what a doctor tells you. If they told you you're gonna feel like shit for 6 months, people wouldn't do the surgery.

A close friend got facial plastic surgery. Part of it was her fault, not taking it very seriously. Doctor said she'll be healed up in a month. No infections, but very slow healing, went into a depression. Called the doctor's office and he pretty much blew her off.

R212 that’s very true but it depends on the reasons behind getting surgery. I think the BIG ones that would lead to that kind of pathology are if you get surgery because you’re 1) obsessed with never aging, or 2) obsessed with eliminating any trace of your ethnicity or race.

r215 what kind of doctor would say you recover from a facelift in a month? You know what, you did write "facial plastic surgery" could be anything, not just a facelift. Maybe your friend misheard him, perhaps he said AT LEAST a month...

R217, I'm sorry, I'm not sure exactly what the doctor said about the recovery time for the facelift (that my friend had). It may have not been one month; but it did seem like a short period of time, esp. for an older person's healing.

My point was that the healing took way longer. My friend felt like something was wrong with her when, in reality, her healing time was probably normal or a bit longer than normal. Also, if doctor had been a little bit kinder and responsive to my friend when she called re: not healing "on schedule," I don't think she'd have been so distressed.

R202 Those deep plane face lift results are great. Too bad it costs $30,000.

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OMG Kim Novak at OP looks like Heath Ledger as the Joker.

I'm sure someone else noticed this but I can't read through this whole long-ass thread.

R221 maybe that’s what she wanted ! Lol

R220 Britt has Jane Fonda’s face now

I have never seen a natural looking lip lift.

With the exception of the neck lifts I think all of the afters in r202’s link look worse.

Jane Fonda looks fine. Britt looks like a clown - she unfortunately had an early face lift that gave her those crazy eyes, joker mouth worsened by lip implants.

Nowadays, you can pay $30,000 for a fabulous facelift that moves the muscles - no stretching, joker mouth or crazy eyes.