Is there anyone the Queen should bow or nod head before?

She did not bow to Diana’s hearse, she bowed to the flag. Royalty protocol goes by most senior. QE2 just shakes hands with other heads of state.

Besides Meghan Markle?

Why would she bow to the Pope? She’s the head of the Church of England. Wars were fought so she wouldn’t have to bow to the Pope.

She doesn't bow to the Pope.

Nor does she have 𝘭𝘦 𝘗𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭è𝘨𝘦 𝘥𝘶 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤.

John XXIII, I assume.

A layer cake for the Pope.

The Pope has more jewels in the Vatican vaults than the Queen has in her jewelry room at her palace.

That's why I will marry the Pope next.

She's very close with her cousins the royal house of the Netherlands. I loved how just a few years ago they visited her and Willem did a deep bow and Máxima did a deep curtsy to her and she just stood there beaming on the steps of the Palace before giving them a totally grand state dinner, where Máxima wore a great dress and the magnificent Stuart tiara. Everyone seemed to have a fine time. The Sussexes were around but not invited.

If there were a King of France, she would theoretically have to do homage as Duke of Normandy (the Channel Islands are a remnant of the Duchy).

Swathed in comely black. Note the Garter arm.

[quote] Willem did a deep bow and Máxima did a deep curtsy

That was before they were king and queen.

Yes they were, r13.

She still has to walk behind the Pope, and the DoE behind her. Still, this time the excused her the lush black outfit of yesteryear and let her wear pearl gray.

R14 they were being super courteous to a senior queen. It's a generational thing.

When in Rome. And only in Rome.

Not even in Rome if she is the Queen. As Princess Elizabeth perhaps.

John the 23 was a right stout man, as my grandma would say

John XXIII was a big'un, that's true. Quite jolly they say; well beloved.

With Benny Redshoes.

What ARE they looking at?

If seated, the Queen will rise to greet other monarchs, or acknowledged heads of non-reigning royal houses.

My Scotch was taken by the Swiss Guard at the border, you.

Here is the correct missing Scotch pic.

The dour Swiss Guard (to the right) wishes to punish the smiling Duke.

Willem-Alexander's and Máxima's deep bow/curtsy were obviously in respect to Her Majesty's years on the Throne. They are close as families and were all having a great time.

The Queen magnanimously greets the Pope as an equal.

Why the wearing of black when hanging with the Pope? Was that tradition? If so, she bagged it in her later years apparently.

R29 Vatican protocol required black unless you had 𝘭𝘦 𝘗𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭è𝘨𝘦 𝘥𝘶 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤. I doubt the Queen bagged anything about Vatican protocol: not really up to her; they probably bagged it. In any event, when the Pope visited the Queen she did not wear black, nor did he.

^ try this link

You have to "assume" because you're too blind to recognize Roncalli, R6?

Lord.

Don't mention politics or religion. Stick to the weather. Buckingham Palace

Bad links. I will look up the term you mentioned. Thanks anyway.

R34 see my links at R33. Sorry for the fucked up links. Roncalli became J23, thanks R32.

Princess Charlene of the shaved head has the white privilege.

The guy on the right is quite cute. Is he taken/married?

Charlene has the 𝘭𝘦 𝘗𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭è𝘨𝘦 𝘥𝘶 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤 but her mother-in-law did not it seems. And Grace was a born Catholic from PA. Princess Charlene converted to Catholicism ....

@ r33 JPII looks a lot like Sting! Kinda freaked me out for a sec.

[quote]Charlene has the 𝘭𝘦 𝘗𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭è𝘨𝘦 𝘥𝘶 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤 but

Oh, dear.

[quote] "The privilege is also not accorded to Queen Máxima of the Netherlands, who is the Catholic wife of the Protestant King Willem-Alexander; nor to Katharine, Duchess of Kent, Princess Michael of Kent, or Sylvana, Countess of Saint Andrews, though they are the senior Catholic members of the Protestant British royal family."

So many Romans. Saints preserve us.

So many Catholics sans 𝘭𝘦 𝘗𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭è𝘨𝘦. Gad.

[quote] Even though they are Catholics, it is not accorded to the Queen of Lesotho or the Princess of Liechtenstein, nor to the wives of the French Co-Prince of Andorra and the Prince and Grand Master of the Order of Malta.

I had no idea that the Prince and Grand Master of the Order of Malta was married. Macron, meanwhile, is married in their kaftan dreams to so may DLers: princesses d'Andorre.

This naughty lady, the First Lady of Azerbaijan, gave herself 𝘭𝘦 𝘗𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘭è𝘨𝘦 𝘥𝘶 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤 despite being Muslim - she wore a white veil and dress to meet the Pope.

Here is a photo of the illicit white privilege...

R43/R44 Pagans wear what they wear wherever.

Who gon check me, boo!?

Bored

Someone please tell Sunshine Sucks that ME is ready, I say READY, to assume the mantle.

Corgis and Corgi/Dachshund mixes.

Has the Pope ever said "Pleased to meet you but you are not appropriately dressed." Probably too polite.

R50 the answer is no because everyone who is formally introduced to the Queen or the Pope is appropriately dressed. What happens in the former walkabouts is another matter.

Yes.

The Queen always bows at The Cenotaph. You'll see her doing it after she used to lay her wreath on behalf of the nation on Remembrance Sunday.

All serving armed forces members in uniform always salute it too.

There you go.

R47 The Pope was explaining to them which circle of hell they will end up in.

r51, do you mean like when Trump was greeted at Windsor by Her Majesty and he proceeded to walk in front of her during an informal inspection of her troops?

Americans do not have to bow or curtsy to any member of the royal family, and it is considered bad form to do so to anyone other than the monarch because we fought the Revolutionary War so we would not have to bow to royalty. Most bow to the Queen only slightly, though, out of respect for a head of state (Nancy Reagan caused tongues to wag by giving her a DEEP curtsy whenever she met with her).

I don’t who she would bow to but the United States was formed specifically to break away and be independent from the monarchy. If I ever saw her in person I’d laugh to her face and tell her to take her crown and shove it. I’d also tell her that her country’s national anthem is horrendous and desperately needs a rewrite. I’d bow to a drag queen but all her majesty will get out of me is an eye roll and probably a long fart in her presence. Is that rude? Perhaps. It’s how I feel, though.

Other times she’s bowed:

She does a nod to the Queen’s Colour (regimental flag), as it it being paraded at the Queen’s Birthday Parade, aka Trooping the Colour. This is her official birthday in June, which is scaled back (and at Windsor) again this year because of COVID.

She and her consort (RIP) also bow twice (!) to the House of Lords before departing, after reading the address during the State Opening of Parliament.

She also bowed (four times in four directions) to the peers of the realm after they acknowledged her, when the Dean of Westminster presented her to them as their “authentic” sovereign during her coronation in Westminster Abbey.

[quote] If I ever saw her in person I’d laugh to her face and tell her to take her crown and shove it.

What a bad-ass you are--fantasizing aloud about abusing a recently widowed 94 year-old woman to her face!

You couldn't be more impressive or more masculine!

95, as of last week

Does QE II bow to the Emperor of Japan?

[quote]R59: What a bad-ass you are--fantasizing aloud about abusing a recently widowed 94 year-old woman to her face!

Chill, Mary. I didn’t say anything about putting my hands on her. The only “abuse” she would face is getting her pride hurt by being insulted by someone who is not required to bow to her. As an American, I have freedom of speech which in this case is exactly why it was written into the Bill of Rights. So she’s 95, big deal. Someone needs to tell her that her national anthem sucks ass before she kicks the bucket and I would love to be given that honor. And the fart thing is just funny because she’s known to be very proper in the very traditional sense. I bet everyone turns into a shaking leaf around her so the idea of just letting one rip while she’s in the room sounds hysterical to me. Juvenile, I know. I suppose the “take her crown and shove it” comment was a bit harsh, it could’ve been stated “kindly take that gorgeous crown of yours and have your humble servants gently insert it in place of your suppository during your next royal visit to the loo.” David Bowie wanted nothing to do with her and neither do I. And it’s not like she’s wanting for anything after being widowed, she’s literally surrounded by luxury and wealth and all the comforts she could ever need or desire. Again, was I being rude? Sure. But I meant every word.

I’m really just saying what Meghan is obviously thinking.

For centuries, women meeting the Pope were required long black dresses (which was then relaxed to short black dresses). Black signifies piety and humility (because a woman in colour is considered a temptress).

Based on that logic, only consorts of Catholic sovereigns are allowed to wear white. Even Queen Maxima, a Catholic married to a Protestant king, is not granted this dispensation. But things are slowly changing. In 2014, Queen Elizabeth met Pope Francis in Rome and wore lilac. This was a significant shift for Her Majesty who has met 4 other pontiffs and always wore black and a mantilla. The explanation for the colour choice was that it was an informal, protocol-light visit, but this never would have happened 20 years earlier.

R57 Wow, you're so edgy! And the fart joke? Hilarious. You'll show those Brits. Yessiree.

R56 and R57 Nobody is expected to bow/curtsy to HM other than her immediate family although, in the words of Buckingham Palace protocol “when one is offered it is appreciated”.

Lots of British people don’t, or any citizens of the other countries of which she is head of state.

It has nothing to do with being American. Unless you’re an American, of course. Because you’re *special*.

R62 Because of course only Americans have freedom of speech, right?

But on further reading of your rant, you’re obviously unhinged.

Great to hear that you and David Bowie agree, though!

She bows to me, bitch!

I barely know which fork to use at the table. I could never be an English Queen. Only a queen from queens. That's fabulous enough for me, and I get plenty of Dominican Papi royal jewels.

Threads like this make it very clear that the Meghan hatred is just using her as a personification for hatred of Americans.

Based on the stupidity of some of the American comments above, can you blame us, R69?

Once we slim down the monarchy, we will be crawling with subjects bowing to me.

This statement is amazing:

For centuries, women meeting the Pope were required long black dresses (which was then relaxed to short black dresses). Black signifies piety and humility (because a woman in colour is considered a temptress).

So the pope could be tempted into carnal acts?

[quote]Because of course only Americans have freedom of speech, right?

No one said only Americans have freedom of speech. Can you please try to keep up, dear? I said it was written into our Bill of Rights specifically because we went from a monarchy that would imprison people who spoke out against them to a democracy where we could criticize our government without being killed for it. For the majority of modern history, the UK had no such law guaranteeing freedom of speech for the common people. For a long time, the monarchy ruled as they pleased and they invaded and colonized all that they touched. My apologies for not sucking up to them.

[quote]You'll show those Brits. Yessiree.

No one said anything about showing the Brits, you clod. Everything I wrote was directed at QE#2. Nowhere did I mention doing anything to the people of Great Britain as whole. At a matter of fact, I love Brits! I just don’t care for their queen or her family. Maybe I’m upset about the royal treatment that the palace gave to Jimmy Saville and is still giving to Prince Andrew. Maybe I’m upset about the way she screwed up the whole Brexit situation. Who knows? But I know a lot of Brits who feel exactly the same way I do.

R25 of course she has to walk a little behind him. He's the host and she doesn't know the way.

Maybe you’re drunk, R73.

Fuck the Pope and all that shit.

#Spotlight

R73 needs to go sleep it off.

R28 They are ‘equals’. The Pope is a Monarch.

She needs to bow out with the rest of them. It's the 21st century for crying out loud.

The pope is the last of the elective monarchies, apart from the US presidency of course (presidential pardons, indeed!)..

R62 Vulgar American

R28, note that the Queen does not wear gloves when she greets the Pope.

It actually seems from some of the photos that she wears one on her left hand, but not on her right hand, because that's the one with which she will shake the Pope's hand.

My understanding is that the only (then) living person QEII would have to bow to was the duchess of Alba, who had more titles than Lizzie herself and therefore was even higher in the royal hierarchy. Which would explain why they never met, because QE didn’t want the public humiliation. Anyone cares to confirm/explain?

R84 Completely untrue. A reigning monarch outranks a duchess, no matter how many titles she has.

Also, why would the Queen have ever met her? Do you actually think every member of the aristocracy in every country has met each other?

If you weren't a Brit, would you bow to her? I wouldn't.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

^ oops, I forgot Muriel hates 'that rag'

the photo is of the late Duchess of Alba, quite the hot piece of snatch

easy to see why she'd have precedence

Another of the fetching Duchess.

R84, seems like they did meet. Apparently, they also knew each other as children in London, when the Duchess' father was ambassador there.

R3 is correct.

The Queen would most certainly have met The Duchess of Alba when she went to Spain for her State Visit. The Duchess is a prominent figure at Court due to her lineage, it would be the same as the highest ranking British peer being invited to a state visit in England. The Duchess is also a descendant of Charles II (as is Fergie, Camilla, and as was Diana) via an illegitimate line of James II and as such has shared descent from James I with The Queen. She was the real deal in Spain, and Charles kissed her hand. However The Duchess would and did do a perfect courtly curtesy to The Queen.

R10 I think you’re misinterpreting what you saw. Willem Alexander and Maxima didn’t bow or curtsy when meeting Elizabeth. They were merely bending down to her eye level to kiss her cheeks. Elizabeth has shrunk to dwarf level these days so it looked like a bow but wasn’t. Monarchs don’t bow to their equals.

The Emperor and Empress of Japan might do a bow but only because that’s their national custom, not because Queen Elizabeth ranks higher. The also shake hands, as sovereigns they are Equals. Even Albert II of Monaco is an Equal, since he’s a sovereign. However his princely rank means he bows to a king/queen. This is followed usually by a warm handshake and a kiss (on cheek or hand) depending on which queen he is meeting and his level of familiarity with her. Although the Grimaldis and Windsor’s aren’t seen in the same circles, The Queen was fond of Prince Rainier and was the first to call Albert when he died. She also sent Diana to represent her at Grace’s funeral, Diana was already a HUGE star in the family even in those early days and sending her to pay The Queen’s respect was a Big Deal.

[quote] The Pope has more jewels in the Vatican vaults than the Queen has in her jewelry room at her palace.

But only the queen sits on an enchanted Bible rock!

R95 the Pope sits on the Throne of St Peter which trumps any Celtic rock cake.

[quote] do you mean like when Trump was greeted at Windsor by Her Majesty and he proceeded to walk in front of her during an informal inspection of her troops?

I loved how she was pointing him this way and that as he was obviously disorientated in his excitement. Then she took him and Melania for a pic in that consignment store she runs in the back of Windsor Castle: they looked thrilled. He seemed to enjoy the whole thing and the Queen is probably one of the few people Trump was not rude about in public. Too bad his white tie at the banquet looked awful, but I have always said he needs a better tailor. And Melania could have worn a tiara.

R57 sounds like that poor guy who got so worked up in anticipation of meeting the Queen that he curtsied when she turned up.

[quote] Nancy Reagan caused tongues to wag by giving her a DEEP curtsy whenever she met with her

Nancy can curtsey if she likes, or not if she likes. Thatcher was also known for her deep curtsies, eg to Hussein of Jordan which caused comment at the time, why I don't really know.

When Giscard d'Estaing greeted the Pope in Paris, he did not bow but his wife Anne-Aymone was practically on her knees.

Heads of state don't bow or curtsey to each other.

Thatcher and Queen Elizabeth

Thatcher and the Queen

Queen Mother, R101.

@R101 is the Queen

Here she is again with Don Juan Carlos. Who is the deep curtsier?

Apologies - that’s what I get for being a smart-arse. And stoned.

Cammie and the Queen of Jordan

R104, it's good to be stoned on a Friday morning. I am too, thankfully.

In my defence, it’s Friday night here, R106! But I see your point.

Thatcher telling the Queen to break up the Commonwealth ... Reagan temporizes ....

Shell meets the Emperor

DL faves Margaret and Juliana

R5

Neither does Princess Michael of Kent....

"La bouche de Marilyn, le regard de Caligula"

The emperor and empress were amazed by the giant black lady from across the seas. And so thankful that she didn't eat them for her lunch that day.

He has shabby shoes but the Queen likes the Justin.

I love it when you can tell the Queen likes someone (the Obamas, for instance). And when she doesn't.

R113 But I thought that Americans don’t curtsy or bow to royalty?

[Quote]I loved how just a few years ago they visited her and Willem did a deep bow and Máxima did a deep curtsy to her and she just stood there beaming on the steps of the Palace

Christ, why don't these blood suckers just finger each other's twats and get a real job?

An emperor outranks a king, so technically the queen should curtsy to the Japanese royal family.

Considering the British Monarchy crushed the Catholic Church in England and expropriated all its property, I'm surprised the Queen doesn't go all Gangster when she meets the Pope.

R113

That's what people let on, but plenty of Americans do bow before royals, especially HM and members of BRF.

When Jackie Kennedy met the Queen she asked for advice on if she should bow or not. Response came back from state department and or whoever that she didn't need to, but Mrs. Kennedy still gave a slight bending of the knees. Later as widow Kennedy when she met HM again this time (IIRC) she gave a more formal deeper curtsy. Later she whispered to a confidante standing close to her "I'm no longer First Lady...".

As for JFK and rest of Kenned clan they must have been in their glory. Barely one step above lace curtain Irish and they've one of their own occupying highest office in the land, and shaking hands with the Queen.

[quote] An emperor outranks a king, so technically the queen should curtsy to the Japanese royal family.

No need as the Queen is head of state. If she were a vassal of the emperors, different matter. The Queen greets the Pope as one sovereign to another; but also as one owner of a Church to another.

DLers' Convention, second day.

[quote] Based on the stupidity of some of the American comments above, can you blame us, [R69]?

Res ipsa loquitur

Meghan claims she didn't know how to curtsey. I suspect she had been practicing all her life. But let's not forget that she didn't research Harry or the BRF. If there is one person the Queen should bow or nod head before, it is Meghan; that may be Meghan's view or it may not.

All the bog Irish bowing and scraping at R120, even Bobby and Teddy. How Boston must have cringed.

[quote]If I ever saw her in person....

I don't think anyone is particularly worried about that happening, dear.

What R126 said.

[quote] An emperor outranks a king, so technically the queen should curtsy to the Japanese royal family.

It doesn't work that way--all monarchs are equal. This used to be a huge problem in the British royal family: Queen Victoria's eldest grandson was the Kaiser, and he thought as emperor he should get to outrank his uncle Edward VII. He didn't according to the rules of protocol.

Besides, the emperor of Japan is emperor in name only. He and the empress are equal to the queen, but everyone else in the Japanese royal family are below her.

From every kind of man, obedience I expect!

I'm the Emperor of Japan --

r21 I see the Devil really DOES wear Prada.

r113 THOSE shoes with THAT dress?!?!?

Did the Queen, when she was Princess Elizabeth, ever curtsy to her father?

gawd, nobody is clicking all those blank pic links!

Probably, r130. She curtsied to the Queen of Tonga as a Princess and was horrified by Meghan's improper curtsy to her.

[quote]Does she bow to the Pope?

Absolutely!

Monarchs, no matter how old or how large their country, DON'T bow or curtsy to each other.

Princes and princesses DO bow/curtsy to monarchs (or those still King/Queen, like the Queen Mother)

. If Japan were an empire divided into smaller states headed by kings/queens, those monarchs would curtsy to the emperor.

As Elizabeth II is a monarch in her own right, she is at equal footing with the monarch of Japan.

. As for the Dutch King and Queen greeting Queen Elizabeth II: R93 got it right — They are merely stooping to exchange kisses. Willem-Alexander and Máxima are tall, and Lillibet is but a wee little lady.

I should've added:

Princes and princesses DO bow/curtsy to monarchs, including those of foreign states.

[quote]I don't think anyone is particularly worried about that happening, dear.

Great comeback. Your words are like an arrow straight through the heart. I’ll be devastated for days. *eyeroll*

I don’t want to meet the queen or her overprivileged family anymore than I wanted to meet Trump and his. At least Trump was out of office in four years. The old broad is going to ride out her reign until she dies which will probably not happen for several more years, possibly a decade or two, and not even senility or dementia will stop her. If you want to argue about who wears the biggest crown, then so be it. But I can hold whatever opinions I want about Ol’ Betty and the rest of you shrieking Marys can die mad about it. I’m not particularly worried about it one way or the other, dear.

The former Dutch queen Juliana abolished curtsying and the use of “your majesty” at court. When her daughter DL fave Queen Beatrix ascended the throne, she REINSTITUTED it!!!! What a class ‘A’ cunt!

This curtsy queens in this thread remind me of the ones in the old BRF threads going on and on about different princesses curtsying to each other.

Before anyone makes that mistake in this thread, the order of precedence does NOT dictate curtsy etiquette. Outside of specific special events (see R58) and catholic monarchs bowing to the Pope, monarchs and their consorts bow/curtsy to no one. They greet each other as friends and address each other as brother/sister is correspondence.

Lower royals (who typically hold an HRH style) only bow/curtsy to monarchs. That’s it. No princesses would ever curtsy to each other under normal conditions, no matter who is of the blood royal or higher in the order of precedence.

"The old broad is going to ride out her reign until she dies which will probably not happen for several more years, possibly a decade or two"

R136, do you really think she'll live to be 115?

R18 Look at all of those prelates crowding up to have their photo taken with the schismatics.

Suck ups.

[quote] So the pope could be tempted into carnal acts?

Even a carnally intentioned look or willful thought is considered sinful.

Elizabeth had quite the rack, even if there is now a noticeable droopiness.

[quote] He has shabby shoes but the Queen likes the Justin.

I hope that those maple-colored shoes are on their way out. They are as hideous as they ubiquitous.

[quote] But I thought that Americans don’t curtsy or bow to royalty?

R113 R116

Japanese royalty never ruled over the United States. They tried in the last century, but weren't successful.

You missed it, R145. Thanks for the history lesson, though!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Whenever the topic of bowing or curtsying to the Queen comes up, some rube trots out the trope about “Americans bow to no Monarch” as if they’re / you’re the only nation on earth which is exempt.

Then comes “as an American I have freedom of speech” because of course no other country on earth has freedom of speech.

This is often followed by the “we saved your asses in WW2” trope.

And so it goes on. Sometimes comical. Sometimes frustrating. Always needs to be shot down by the intelligent.

You are a real piece of shit, R137 — and you have no idea what you are talking about.

[quote]OP: Is there anyone the Queen should bow or nod head before?

Ask Beyonce.

Except she'd demand a low curtsy.

[quote] This used to be a huge problem in the British royal family: Queen Victoria's eldest grandson was the Kaiser, and he thought as emperor he should get to outrank his uncle Edward VII. He didn't according to the rules of protocol.

R128 Edward VII was also Emperor of India.

President Biden

Kaiser Wilhelm was a blowhard. He never comes off well in history books. I'm listening to The Guns of August and I'm only at the beginning, KW is already too much.

The Queen of England doesn’t recognize the Pope.

Wrong on both counts R154:

There is no “Queen of England”.

If you are referring to the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (this is definitely not the same thing as “England”) then of course she recognises the Pope as a fellow monarch.

Why do so many of you feel the need to put your ignorance on display?

Queen Victoria curtsied to her great friend Empress Eugenie of France.

"The most faithful visitor was undoubtedly Queen Victoria. Few could equal the delicacy of this fearsome old lady, who wrote often, always in French, inviting the empress to Windsor or Osborne, or to her Scottish castles. As time passed, they grumbled to each other about the infirmities of advancing age, Eugénie’s being rheumatism and bronchitis which, privately, she blamed on the English weather. The queen told her to stop calling her ‘Your Majesty’ or ‘Madame’ – ‘Why not “sister” or “friend” – that would be so much more pleasant.’ Neither would precede the other through a door, gently remonstrating. ‘Après vous, ma soeur.’ Eugénie’s manner towards Victoria was not unlike that of ‘an unembarrassed but attentive child talking to its grandmother’, said Ethel Smyth, who saw them curtsy to each other. ‘The movement of the Queen, crippled though she was, was amazingly easy and dignified; but the empress, who was then sixty-seven, made such an exquisite sweep down to the floor and up again, all in one gesture, that I can only liken it to a flower bent and released in the wind,’ Ethel tells us. They shared similar views on foreign affairs, Victoria becoming increasingly pro-French, a development which an angry Bismarck attributed to Eugénie."

Queen Elizabeth I had her Catholic cousin Mary of Scotland’s head cut off.

R157

No, England tried and sentenced Mary, Queen of Scots to death. Elizabeth I as monarch was bound by oaths taken at her coronation to uphold laws of land, thus that as they say was that.

Mary, Queen of Scots spent nearly 20 years imprisoned in England. If Elizabeth I truly wanted her royal cousin dead that deed would have been accomplished not long after Mary set foot on English soil.

This is the best thread on DL ever. More more!

R158, yes, apparently Elizabeth agonised over the execution of Mary Stuart and delayed it for as long as possible. I remember reading some conservative historian who criticised Elizabeth for violating the sanctity of monarchs, which they claimed prepared the way for the executions of Charles I of England, Louis XIV of France and Nicholas II of Russia.

Someone grumbled about Princess Anne curtsying to King Felipe of Spain.....Honey, I'd be willing to do a lot more than curtsy for that man.

In letters to James VI of Scotland Elizabeth I refers to the execution of Mary, Queen of Scots as a "miserable accident" divesting herself of nearly all blame.

Elizabeth to her dying days stuck to story that she only signed Mary's death warrant for "protection" against future plots and never wanted it to be unsealed and acted upon. Her ministers thus acted against HM's most earnest good wishes, but the queen herself was blameless. There was much weeping and Elizabeth put herself and court into mourning for her dead cousin. HM thus also began a letter writing campaign to crowned heads of Europe who were shocked (outraged more like) at the judicial murder of an anointed sovereign. How much of this was skillful play acting or just good PR we shall never truly know. England was lucky in that Mother Nature dealt cruel blows to Spanish armada turning things around to Elizabeth's advantage, but things could have easily gone the other way.

It's worth noting however till her dying days, and indeed on her death bed Elizabeth admitted the two largest mistakes of her time on throne was the executions of Mary, Queen of Scots and Robert Devereux . In both instances HM felt she had been duped into acting by ministers and others.

Elizabeth I and Mary, Queen of Scots for that matter have been done to death in all manner of plays, film and other media. However IMHO best of lot was Glenda Jackson as Elizabeth in both television production (Elizabeth R) and film "Mary, Queen of Scots".

Queen Elizabeth l was a fascinating read. How many here believe she was a virgin and who was her greatest love?

Lots of bowing and scraping here. Mr and Mrs Emperor of Japan at 9:00. DL Fave Queen of the Netherlands sweeps in at 10:00.

Queen Beatrix comes in as if she's visiting poor relatives at 1:15 lol.

My goodness, a lot of history queens lurking around. Honestly, all that Op was asking is if the Queen has ever given head?

When I’m Queen, I’m not bowing for shit.

Elizabeth I was an unstable biracial woman (think Halle Berry). Her mother Anne Boleyn was BLACK.

Liz Taylor at the Vatican.

Ah, yes. Liz was granted a temporary le privilege white.

I think she bows her head when she blows random footmen (?)

Has the queen had lovers?

[quote] Did the Queen, when she was Princess Elizabeth, ever curtsy to her father?

Of course.

And to her mother, who also outranked her until her father died.

[quote] Has the queen had lovers?

[italic]"Had"[/italic] she? She still does.

[quote] Why do so many of you feel the need to put your ignorance on display?

GET OVER YOURSELF.

Holy fucking Christ.

And again, R176 - perfectly proving my point.

R175 Don't you know the present perfect?

These are all of 177's posts on this thread:

[quote]R86 and once again the Sussex Squad shows how fucking illiterate they are by thinking that Sussex is the plural of Sussex. I know that it sounds like it ends with an “S”, but it doesn’t. It’s “Sussexes”, you morons. You probably follow the words with your forefinger and mouth them as you read, right, R86?

[quote] Apologies to R86 - that was meant for R64.

[quote] R56 and R57 Nobody is expected to bow/curtsy to HM other than her immediate family although, in the words of Buckingham Palace protocol “when one is offered it is appreciated”. Lots of British people don’t, or any citizens of the other countries of which she is head of state. It has nothing to do with being American. Unless you’re an American, of course. Because you’re *special*.

[quote]R62 Because of course only Americans have freedom of speech, right? But on further reading of your rant, you’re obviously unhinged. Great to hear that you and David Bowie agree, though!

[quote]Based on the stupidity of some of the American comments above, can you blame us, R69?

[quote]Maybe you’re drunk, R73.

[quote] Queen Mother, R101.

[quote] Apologies - that’s what I get for being a smart-arse. And stoned.

[quote] In my defence, it’s Friday night here, R106! But I see your point.

[quote]R113 But I thought that Americans don’t curtsy or bow to royalty?

[quote] You missed it, R145. Thanks for the history lesson, though!

[quote]Whenever the topic of bowing or curtsying to the Queen comes up, some rube trots out the trope about “Americans bow to no Monarch” as if they’re / you’re the only nation on earth which is exempt. Then comes “as an American I have freedom of speech” because of course no other country on earth has freedom of speech. This is often followed by the “we saved your asses in WW2” trope. And so it goes on. Sometimes comical. Sometimes frustrating. Always needs to be shot down by the intelligent.

[quote]Wrong on both counts R154:

[quote] There is no “Queen of England”. If you are referring to the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (this is definitely not the same thing as “England”) then of course she recognises the Pope as a fellow monarch. Why do so many of you feel the need to put your ignorance on display?

[quote]And again, R176 - perfectly proving my point.

Such a charming personality.

You seem just a little invested, R179.

R179 Are these all your postings that you are keeping for posterity?

[quote]Nancy Reagan caused tongues to wag by giving her a DEEP curtsy whenever she met with her.

That flexibility is what kept Ronnie around.

So did the Queen bow to Diana's coffin or not? I remember it being a big thing on the news when she did it. The pundits doing the live coverage pointed out how she broke protocol to appease the British people who were mad at her.

Elizabeth I's big mistake with Mary, Queen of Scots was not arranging for her to be quietly poisoned and then put it about that she died of fever. It would have saved everyone a great deal of trouble.

Considering that Mary was executed 463 years ago I’m not sure what the relevance is to the reign of the current Queen and to whom she does or does not bow.

That flexibility is what kept Ronnie around.

I can relate.

I googled it. The Queen did bow at Diana's coffin.

HM did not bow a curtsey to Diana's coffin as it passed, she did lower her head which was a total break with protocol. Princess Margaret OTOH remained ramrod straight upright standing next to the Queen.

HM at that point likely felt she had to do something as the anger from all quarters including Diana-maniacs was still rather strong.

Like the street women of Paris who marched on Versailles forcing Louis XVI, his Queen Marie-Antoinette and their children back to that city, HM and the BRF had been forced back to BP from their country palace to bear witness and acknowledge Diana's death publicly.

The Queen wasn't fond of Diana by that point, but she did what she had to do in order to preserve her family's relationship with the public.

It's not at all surprising that Margaret wouldn't help out at all: Bitch had to make her hatred of Diana plain for all the world to see.

R3 "Why would she bow to the Pope? She’s the head of the Church of England. Wars were fought so she wouldn’t have to bow to the Pope."

I thought that England broke with the Catholic Church only Because Henry VIII wanted a divorce?

Princess Margaret was likely ticked off about all the endless fuss, and was gagging for a ciggy along with a G&T or two.

I heard she requested to visit France to dip her handkerchief in a pool of Diana's blood. As a sign of respect.

R73 good point re Jimmy Savile and Andrew. Not an ounce of respectability in that family. What is with the BRF and sexual predators? They don’t deserve a shred of respect.

R179 has stated her boundaries

[quote]I thought that England broke with the Catholic Church only Because Henry VIII wanted a divorce?

That’s part of it, but Henry VIII also wanted to limit the power and influence of the Pope. That’s also why his daughter Elizabeth wanted her cousin Mary, a Catholic, executed...because she feared Mary would make a claim for the English throne with the support of the Pope and the Catholic Church.

Didn't Ann Boleyn encourage his downfall as well? She repeatedly made remarks about him owning a more lavish castle and bring much richer than the king?

R195 He also wanted all the Catholic church's stuff.... and took it!

For the record Henry VIII considered himself a "good" and conservative Catholic until end of his days. He detested Martin Luther and Protestant zealtory for that matter, The kings funeral was by RC rites IIRC.

It was only the matter of divorcing Catherine of Aragon (egged on by Anne Boleyn), and getting of a male heir that caused Henry VIII to go along with breaking with Rome. It was a means to that end...

When things didn't turn out as planned Henry VIII not only soured on Anne Boleyn, but blamed her for everything under sun; leaving his "good" wife Catherine of Aragon, break with Rome, etc.... Fact that Anne didn't produce a son, but yet another daughter took away his main argument for divorcing Catherine; that marriage was supposedly cursed which was why there weren't any male heirs. So what was happening with Anne?

More than the king it was the nobles and other favorites that Henry shared the plunder from Roman Catholic churches, monasteries, convents, etc... that wanted England to firmly remain Protestant. All those lands, jewels, silver, gold and other riches taken from the Church was now in their possession (many families still have some or all of it to this day), and they feared being forced to give things back.

Above was one of the main reasons for the (failed) plot to put Lady Jane Grey on throne. Protestant nobility knew what Princess Mary was likely going to do as queen (restoration of the "True Religion"), and they weren't having any of it.

[/QUOTE] The Queen of England doesn’t recognize the Pope. [/QUOTE]

Alzheimer's can be a bitch sometimes

The Queen of Jordan wore grey when she met The Pope. I thought that was a nice gesture, as grey is one of the colors of half-mourning and somber enough to reflect the humility that women without the Privilege must cloak themselves in while meeting The Pontiff. As a Muslim she isn’t bound by any Vatican protocol, but she met them halfway with grey.

OP pick up a history book.

The Queen bowing to the fucking Pope?

R198-- Thank you for the history lesson! Everything always comes down to money and greed , doesn't it? Was Henry Vlll' s first wife deceased when he had Ann beheaded? I will Google it. If she had been living, he would have no excuse for not taking her back, according to his convenient, self serving logic. Yeah, it is always the evil females fault for seducing the helpless man. Pissposs.

[quote]Yeah, it is always the evil females fault for seducing the helpless man. Pissposs.

There's some Harry/Meghan joke in there somewhere but I'm too lazy to make it.

No, I was thinking of the horrifying Bible verses someone posted the Dugger thread about how evil women are. Both of the Markles are mentally ill assholes.

R160 here - eek, 44 replies later and I am only just noticing my lapsus clavis: I should, of course, have said Louis XVI of France.