Am I a Loser?

You should write a novel and self publish it on Kindle Unlimited. Find a topic people are currently interested in, like the pandemic or AIDS, and create a narrative and characters around that. Pandemic literature is selling really well but there's hardly any of it.

You just need a small success to build upon OP. Successes can build up and avalanche as they are great for self-esteem. But you do need to have the discipline to get a least one thing done from beginning to end.

Or just do what this chick did. Now she makes around $400k a year.

Are you still writing, or did you get a real job?

Thanks R1 and R2. Good advice, but I'm not a hustler/entrepreneur person. Like most writers I'm introverted to the point of disability and with ADD would find keeping track of ghostwriting gigs a living nightmare. I didn't know pandemic writing was a thing--always thought Defoe's Journal of the Plague Year sounded personal and intriguing, but I looked into it and he totally lied as well as dredging up old accounts/statistics! LOL.

It’s very easy to publish on Kindle.

OP, how essential is it that you make a living from your writing? Many creative artists don't. Or they must supplement that with teaching, ghostwriting, and/or sustenance jobs of all kinds.

Writing is a lonely profession. Would it help to find a community (online or off) of writers with similar interests? (And I don't mean DL.)

You're the only one who can decide what this call to write is about for you. You can't wait for money, fame, or recognition to legitimize you as a writer.

Yes

You don't have to hustle to publish on Kindle Unlimited, just write it and upload it. They pass almost anything except if it's incorrectly formated. You then wait and see if you get anyone downloading it and reviewing it. You get paid each time it's downloaded on Kindle Unlimited. There's no excuse for moaning about never being a published writer these days when it's the easiest thing to self publish and reach a huge audience.

Travel more, especially to some countries where English is spoken as a second language. You will pick up some colorful English there. And then you can write some weird, insulting, anecdotal shit about those countries.

My brother wrote a memoir about his wife's illness and death from cancer and put it on Kindle Unlimited. He was surprised by how much interest there was as he wrote it more as a cathartic thing for himself. But books about cancer deaths are popular on there.

OP, the good news is there's nothing going on upstairs with you that nearly all of us hasn't gone through. I once referred to it as post post teenaged angst. The only bad news I see here is you listen to these fucking fuckwads who do nothing but run their fuckwad mouths, tell you what's wrong with your life. They're flap snot and dribble piss, darlin.

My snot flapping and piss dribbling is a public service, R11! Who else will tell you your shoes suck?

It doesn’t matter if you don’t live up to your potential, very few people do. Enjoy what you do and don’t worry about it. I make collages, drawings, paintings and just do it for myself. It makes me happy, and keeps my mind in motion. I make practical things too, like strings of lights for the patio. People like what I make when they see it, and that’s nice but not even that important.

Write about what, OP? If the answer is Cher, you know the next step - Penobarbital

OP, I think you need to take a long weekend, and just read the worst books and watch the worst movies that were ever made. And realize that some slob had the chutzpah to sell crap like that as a book or a script, and if your stuff is literate than you're already better than some paid professionals!

Because if you ever want to be pro or semi-pro or to just have the bragging rights to being a published author, you've got to get over the first stumbling block of self-criticism. To do that stop comparing yourself to the good or great writers that you read for fun, compare yourself to the shitty ones for a while.

This was an episode of Roseanne in S1 or S2.

This forum is great for writing about cool and weird people you have known, OP. So many times the beginnings of a story belong to one person, but you swap out gender, profession, or geography to preserve some anonymity and the endings surprise you.

You can still be a writer.

Just a very old writer.

You self destruct.

Don't do that.

Post your writing anonymously.

R15 Ain't that the truth.

If Cloud Atlas got made anyone in the world has a shot.

Go find the mushroom post. You need to kill the self-doubt and self-criticism.

There's no excuse for a literate guy like the OP to cry because he's not been published when the most mangled tripe ends up getting read on Kindle Unlimited. You just need to tap into a popular topic such as:

Depression/mental illness

Any kind of addiction - alcohol, drugs, sex

An account of a loved one's terminal illness and death from cancer, dementia, ALS, AIDS. Can be retrospective in the case of AIDS.

An account of losing limbs and recovery - the book about the young guy who lost both legs in the Boston Marathon bombing has sold thousands of copies - but it could also be a climbing/military/car accident

My Pandemic Hell type books

Publishing is a hyper-competitive business and very few people make a living just from writing novels or screenplays. You're either independently wealthy or you have a day job like teaching, journalism or editing. That's just the nature of the industry.

Thanks for all this advice, guys. I'll try to take it to heart and make a last-ditch attempt. I'm getting pretty up there in years but maybe old, desperate boomers will become the New Hot Thing (I doubt it!). Money isn't the object--I just want to have a readership because art with no audience isn't art. My visual art is enough for me just doing it, but I can't think of my writing like that. Look for me on Kindle Unlimited next year!

"....everyone (mother, teachers, friends) thought I was going to be a writer..." Are you judging yourself based on other's expectations / projections? Everyone told me I would grow up to be an artist and I was pushed in that direction. I was indeed "artistic" but doing that as my life's work didn't excite me, so I went in a different direction which personally was more rewarding. Took years for me to realize that winning my family's approval was not key to my happiness.

Former film writer here.

My experience is that every community of writers has a litany of unspoken rules and codes and biases that are impossible to navigate unless you're already in the top tier, or in a lower tier and happy to suck up to those A-listers in your field.

That said, plenty of people are successful in their writing field and aren't a part of the community at all. That seems to insulate writers from a lot of the usual pitfalls. I knew several people who had decent revenue from steadily writing reviews while not belonging to any organizations or having a Twitter or anything. Currently I'm a patron (via Patreon) of a few graphic artists who are doing well probably BECAUSE they never got involved in their respective online communities.

My advice to you: if you're adverse to bullshit politics over petty issues, don't get involved in the online community.

Use online resources, absolutely, publish online, have a webpage or even a store, but avoid joining Twitter lists or FB groups with your so-called peers.

Anybody can become a writer. All you have to do is write.

If you want to get people to buy and read your work, that's mostly up to market forces you have no control over.

Can r19 please elaborate?

Are people interested in reading poetry anymore?

Is submitting your writing in an online contest a dumb idea?

You're not a loser. Is this writing/publishing a real goal for you? Perhaps you're really not that interested in writing for the end goal to be publishing.

If it IS a goal, perhaps an executive functioning coach could help you organize your time and productivity.

Don't beat yourself up over any of this. As long as you're enjoying life and finding happiness you're winning the game.

I follow a couple of people on Twitter who submit poetry constantly and get accepted relatively often. Glanced at their timelines and they've been accepted at Sporazine, Visual Verse, Spoonfeed, Heatwave, Zarf Poetry, Crepe and Pen, and others. No idea how much they get or whether those are good magazines, but there are places accepting poetry.

Doubt is most people's enemy number one. When you spend all day listing all the very valid reasons why you can't, or don't deserve, the things you want you just give up or prove to yourself you are a total loser by doing a bad job to come to said conclusion.

Wanting something, but not wanting to do the work isn't just lazy, it's about talking yourself out of facing humiliating defeat.

"I was indeed "artistic" but doing that as my life's work didn't excite me, so I went in a different direction which personally was more rewarding."

Me too. Okay, I started out desperately wanting to be a visual artist, I can draw and paint fairly well and was training to be a commercial/technical artist when real life intervened. Time went on, and I submitted work to galleries and got some nibbles, and that was the point when I realized that while I really enjoyed creating my art, I didn't want to hustle and sell and have to depend on something that unstable as my only source of income, and when it came right down to it I really did want to contribute more to the world than decorative items.

So I ended up becoming a front-line healthcare worker, and I'm definitely proud of contributing more to the world than decorative items, and I'm free to create as a "hobby". You see, creating for a living means you have to appeal to the public or publishers, but creating as a hobby means you can work entirely on your own terms, which is what I want. And the with the internet I can put my work where other people can see it, which is enough for now.

So OP, do you really want to create for the joy of creation, or your dream of a way out of the daily grind, or a part of your self-image that you don't want to let go?

Thank you very much r31.

Listen, I'm going to make this quick because I got my second shot yesterday, and now my arm is killing me--

[quote] I never completed anything but a screenplay and who in their right mind would fund/greenlight an adaptation of Melville's Benito Cereno?

No one. So either find a local filmmaker (they're in every city) who's looking for projects to take on for love OR re-write it as a stage play. There are numerous theatres around the country looking for adaptations of classics. Or talk to the community theatres and small theatres in your city.

[quote] I also wrote a novella that would make a fantastic comic book series.

Great. Find a collaborator who can draw. There are numerous illustrators out there--and you can meet them online. Talk to a few and see the work they've done. There are publishers for this sort of thing. Search online and find the main publishers for graphic novels and what their submitting guidelines are.

[quote] I know I'm creative, and not exactly lazy, but I just don't have the drive/circle of associates/energy/ego/supporti - ve spouse that seems to propel people to realizing their talents.

What you don't have is the knowledge that your computer is a bridge to finding collaborators, associates, and all that shit. A poster above told you to steer clear of online communities--which can be true--but if you write screenplays (or stages plays) and graphic novels, by definition you need collaborators.

Life has many doors, Ed-Boy.

Thank you all for your ideas and support. I forgot to mention I think my personality is not great because in the past I've tried to work with partners (to make a movie in our college days and when I was working a colleague from work--both times there were personality conflicts. And I have sought collaborators, but perhaps not in the right places or with the right approach/determination. I had a student who was going to illustrate an idea I had that an agent was interested in, but then the parents perhaps thought I was trying something and stopped it. Lately I even taught myself to draw (somewhat) starting in 2014, and some graphic novels have no better illustrations than I could do, I suppose. Anyway, I'm taking note of all the ideas here and definitely feel more like trying again, despite my age. Those times I feel like a loser are just as deluded as thinking it will all be easy. I will put in the work because I love creating, and see where it goes. I'll also try to find forums I can talk about my work and maybe find some help. My personality is better than it was 20 years ago, lol. Although that has been disputed on DL!

You sound very self aware, OP - an attractive trait. Some people really aren't team players - that's not a bad thing. You're wise to figure out a way to carve your path that matches your personality. I wish you good luck and hope you find fulfillment and success (whatever that ends up looking like). Celebrate all accomplishments, big and small - even if it's just making a phone call or signing up for a newsletter. Each step will move you closer to your full potential. Keep growing (o;

I was a technical writer for years. It's a good living and once you do it, it's impossible to read anything fiction and think that being a literary writer is in any way superior.

That someone who writes manuals for Canon printers should think there is nothing about literature that is in any way superior...

Oy vey...

Lol r40. Never wrote a Canon manual but at least those serve a useful purpose.

OP if you feel resistance to a certain type of writing, there are many others. Experiment with current events, history, biography, stream of consciousness, satire, etc. Follow your heart! Most literature is plagiary anyhow and quite derivative. Probably why your instinct is to avoid it.

So you’re a loser. It’s alright, baby, you’re just a loser!

Okay, thanks to the advice on this thread, I decided to put one of my writings, a novel, out there. It is on Smashwords and you can read the first 5% for free. Is it any good? Is it boring? Help me out with a good old DL style brutal critique.

Yes. Now pick yourself up and shut up.

Yes, OP, you are the biggest loser.

I understand this. Sometimes, as a creative type, you can have a ton of really clever, marketable ideas, but lack the wherewithal to see any of them through. It's not uncommon (for creative types and for people with ADHD, so you've got a double whammy). Why not see about hiring a ghost writer to help you out?

OP is a loser

And I think he is a boozer

So you’d better make that call

To the Plow King!

Are any of you bitches going to read the excerpt? Well, are you? Look who's calling ME a loser!

[quote] Okay, thanks to the advice on this thread, I decided to put one of my writings, a novel, out there. It is on Smashwords and you can read the first 5% for free. Is it any good? Is it boring? Help me out with a good old DL style brutal critique.

Okay, so I started reading it. Good for you for putting it out there.

Right away, the syntax is awkward - I literally had to reread each of the first three paragraphs before I understood what you were trying to say (maybe English isn't your first language?). Consider short sentences or sentence fragments in your descriptions rather than extending sentences with dependent clauses and series of very wordy descriptions offset with commas... and if you choose to keep it as is, FFS, use the Oxford comma!

Additionally, your moves as a writer are too obvious and formulaic (e.g., 1.) start with the sounds of the scene. 2.) describe the smells. 3.)describe the character...). And, really, "she clenched her buttocks"? Your descriptions would benefit from more vivid, concise figurative language delivered in short sentences with carefully chosen, powerful words.

And then you go on to tell the reader a boatload of exposition. It's boring. Don't tell us - show us with character interactions, internal dialogue, etc.

If you submitted this in an 8th grade Writing Workshop class for narrative writing, you would get high marks. You definitely show potential, but you need to work on your style and become more adept and thoughtfully intertwining your literary devices so they're not jarring and obvious.

My advice would be to work with a professional editor, a ghost writer, or a creative writing coach to help take you to the next level.

OP I have friend who is a lot like you He had all the credential for success. Graduated top of his class at USC film school. Made cover of Chicago Tribune Magazine as one of the most promising new writers Class of 1989. Moved to Hollywood with his shiny masters degree, speaking six foreign languages and a genius IQ. He got a intern job at Love Connection. That's it. 35 years later . Nada. Zip Zilch. No scripts,no novels,no articles. Nothing. He made rent by selling old scripts on E-bay. Other writers work. He apparently thought 'the industry " would simply recognize his" genius" and he'd be the next Oscar Wilde. He never would lower himself to promote himself. Hustling was for "lesser talents". He picked a career that he had absolutely no aptitude for. Last I heard he was a 52 yo homeless man living in his mothers car.

Thank you, R50! My first college prof said "your sentences are so convoluted as to be incomprehensible." From then on I tried to make my papers more straight-forward, but, honestly, that's the way I think. I'm a real "on the other hand"-er. As to your other points, I thought so, too.

R51, good story. Luckily I picked a career I love and work endlessly to get better at.

But writing.....it's a real dream of mine. I would love to write ONE good thing. I saw a documentary on Woody Allen the other night and had to admit a full 50% of his films are lousy. But it's that one, like Annie Hall, that makes it all worthwhile. I know he's controversial, but I pick him because I'm almost always entertained by his stuff. Maybe most of my writing is crap, but there might be one thing I could write that would fulfill my aim.

Op, you might also pick an author you love, pick your favorite chapter of his or her works, and study the language and sentence structure. Then take a page from your story and revoice it’s using the technique and style you observed with the favorite author. Pick another author and do it again. I do this with my creative writing students all the time to suss out style. We call it a “write-like.”

I think everything has been written.

Maybe you would feel better if you were zestfully clean.

Aren't you a professor?

Is the person who posted the excerpt the same person that started this thread?

What's your point, R57?

You are a loser, but most people are. Very few pursue their true calling. Do it already!

I just finished draft #godwhoknowsatthispoint of my screenplay this weekend. After one last once-over (just to check for any grammatical/spelling errors), I'm going to send it on its way. Of course there are a million and one unproduced screenplays circling the planet as I type this but so what -- you shouldn't spend all that time and energy creating something just to hide it away. Put it out in the world, hope for the best, and move on to something else.

Nothing shows lack of self awareness like picking the wrong profession.

I agree with you, R60. Best of luck. I was psyched when I finished Benito Cereno and put it online. It got picked as a finalist on Zoetrope (this is long ago, prob. doesn't exist now) and I got many great comments from readers.

I don't agree with you, R61. I think there are many reasons people do certain work. I certainly didn't pick the wrong profession as I am still so excited to practice it, learn more, get better. But I always wanted to express myself in writing as well. There are certain barriers in my personality that I don't apologize for--they aren't my fault. I can't easily promote my artistic ideas to others. I'm still working on that and still write occasionally. I think my self-awareness is A-OK.

R60, where exactly are you sending it?

I feel like a loser.

Published author here of several books, fiction and nonfiction. Focus on completing a project and the satisfaction and pride that comes from having created something. Separate this from the external validation of publishing. Then, if you really want, explore publishing it. But be aware, I (and many writer friends) will tell you it’s incredibly anticlimactic. Renews, responses, sales… one day it's kicks, then it's kicks in the shins. Good or bad, it’s not really satisfying. What’s satisfying is the accomplishment of having created something, not what others think about it.

Agree, R65. Having succeeded in one field, I know that unless I love writing the way I loved the other, I won't enjoy it or succeed. Jacqueline Susann said that she was doing the best she could, and I think that's the point--something created with real love and as much skill as you possess is a win, and sometimes it hits the sweet spot with the audience. No guarantees, though. So far, I'm not feeling it--plus I've got too many things competing for my limited energy right now. Maybe in a year or so, if I'm in a better place, I'll revisit writing. Thanks for the post.

Yup u are.