Inside Daisy Clover

It stinks of beans around here. Where can we go for coffee?

BRAZIL!

You're watching a movie you are loving and you stopped two-thirds of the way through just to post on DataLounge?

^this is datalounge. There are no rules.

The fact that Robert Redford is a closet case totally took me by surprise. Made me realIze the topic was out there before Stonewall in a major film. Love the visuals. The attempts to make her look like a butch little girl were annoying and in general I’m not a fan of her acting - but it’s definitely a good movie with some great visuals.

R4, Redford threw a tantrum when the film was released. Apparently they changed him from straight and irresponsible to closet case with one tacked on scene he wasn't in after. He was livid and makes the point how he didn't like it to this day.

I could only get through a minute of that trailer.

The dialogue was written as if everything was in italics.

And Wood's acting is very amateurish.

"Inside Daisy Clover" sounds like a '70s porn film.

I used to watch this movie whenever it was on tv as a kid.

I still love it; as an adult I really love Mellora.

[quote]The fact that Robert Redford is a closet case totally took me by surprise. Made me realIze the topic was out there before Stonewall in a major film

R4, homosexuality had been in major films since the silent era. From the Hays Code to at least 1980, homos were accepted as long as they were violent predators or repentant suicides. If Redford's character in Daisy Clover was in more scenes, he's have been killed. He can't/won't repent, so the movie would have to do it for him. Violently.

Meh movie overall, it might have been fun if the lead hadn't been so monumentally miscast. But miscast she is, Natalie Wood wasn't a teenager, she wasn't charismatic, she wasn't volatile or unstable, she wasn't butch, she wasn't a virgin, and she wasn't a good enough actress to play so many thing she wasn't!

So really, the only value the movie presents to modern eyes is unintentional camp.

Nat’s granddaughter is named Clover. Very sweet.

What the fuck was with the fictional movie that supposedly made Daisy a star?

So pathetically awful.

I lost any empathy for Natalie's character in the very beginning when she forged that autograph then sold it.

Fuck that dishonest cunt.

You don't mess with my movie star autographed photo collection without painful repercussions.

Ruth Gordon was great. The scenes with her in the mental hospital are heartbreaking.

I am generally not a Redford fan and don't care for most of his movies, but regardless of his issues about playing a bisexual or gay character, he's very good in this. He delivers the charm, he looks beautiful, and it's plausible he has feelings for Daisy. He and Wood have great chemistry together.

Apparently his character was always conceived of as a bisexual. Redford only signed on with rewrites, then a scene was added with another character "outing him" and Redford was furious. Playing gay was a huge stigma in 1965.

The book is really good, with a relaxed, kind of bohemian tone… in that the heroine is very out of place in the artificial world of movie making (despite being talented)

The movie on the other hand is drenched in artificiality from beginning to end and just becomes a soap opera. Natalie Wood’s stunted acting range doesn’t help. If she were older she’d make a decent Melora, but she’s too worldly to play Daisy.

The circus is a wacky world- how I love it!

I haven’t seen it in a very long time, but I DIDN’T DARE FORGET IT!

I never read the book, but r16’s description of the movie is very accurate.

I LOVE Natalie Wood! BUT, she was too old for this part and over acted terribly. I still love the movie and gorgeous Robert Redford. It's sad that Natalie really thought that she would win an Academy Award for this performance. It's still a great, fun movie to watch.

OP- you should watch "This Property is Condemned" next. I have a feeling that you will really like it.

Wood is not only too old for the role, totally lacking in a rough edge, and not much of an actress, she can't sing or dance for shit! And she's playing the star of musical films!

I have no idea who would have worked, but it wasn't wood.

We need a remake with Elliot Page and Allison Janney.

With Elliot Page in Redford's role? Janney as Ruth Gordon, of course.

R15, Redford's fury was voiced in the 1970s, when playing bisexual wasn't as big a deal. In Daisy Clover, he had no scenes with a man, they showed him post-cotidal with Natalie's character, there was no reason for Redford to be so grossed out ten years later.

Redford plays all the "charm" required for the character, true, and he's quite animated - very different from the later minimalist approach he used for every role. In fact, he's more or less 'dead' delivering monotone lines in much later films like Truth (2015). There use to be a lot of spontaneity in Redford's acting, but as he got to be a bigger and bigger star in the 70s, he started phoning it in. When Redford tried to be emotionally connected and spontaneous in movies like Legal Eagles (1986), it's extremely unconvincing - you can see the wheels turning.

I think this is Natalie’s best performance. She turns the idea of child star on its head. She is a child star that’s too old-common Hollywood truth. She isn’t really talented but cute when she turns it on. She is just looking for a way out. And she knows she’s a phony. There is also a major undercurrent of child molesting between Plummer and his wife and Daisy. Redford is such an awful actor overall he is easy to ignore. All this performed by a child star. Daisy is meaner and angrier than Natalie’s image. And that gives her character an edge. I love Natalie Wood. I think she is awful in “ This Property is Commended”, mainly due to poor writing, poor direction and an over used general Southern accent.

Natalie would have aged into a great character actor like Myrna Loy, I think. I miss her and her films. No matter how awful the film around her might be, I will watch it for her. Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice is dated and pretty stupid I guess, but Natalie's funny expressions are worth watching it for.

Her hair is so awkward in this.

It's a series of wigs, R26, and they're horribly unflattering. I'm sure they were custom-made and expensive, but they're horrible.

This little movie story was dreamed up by a little movie slut.

It could have been a classic , and Nat is fantastic in it, BUT Mulligan's direction is awful, the editing is detrimental to Nat's performance (how many close-ups of the exact same expression do you need ?), the song makes you wish Mia Farrow had met Previn in 1964 , Natalie's wig appears 5 minutes before Natalie herself in every scene, and Redford's part should've been played by Tab Hunter. In short, with another director, another leading man, another editor, another make-up artist and another score, it would've been great.

[quote]the song makes you wish Mia Farrow had met Previn in 1964

Oh, cunting R29..... you are a cunt and a half.

[quote] you are a cunt and a half.

Most people think that I'm a raging asshole, but I'm hot, so who cares...I was Just watching Tab's picture and thinking "I could have sucked this guy's toes for days on end"

It's a total trainwreck. I've watched half a dozen times.

I'm prejudiced, but I think that All these movies would have been better with Tab Hunter in them:

Rebel without a cause

Sweet bird of youth

West side story

Billy budd

Splendor in the grass

Butch cassidy and the sundance kid

exhibit A : CHARISMA

[quote] It's a total trainwreck. I've watched half a dozen times

I agree. The Smarty pants English writer named Lambert tried to expose all the trashy manipulative people and the users and the used.

I try to watch for Plummer and Redford but Natalie Wood is abysmally awful. I assume she's trying to be Judy Garland.

As a 14-year-old in 1966, I had to beg the woman at the box office to sell me a ticket.

The manager of the cinema had determined that it should be Adults Only, but I eventually got in.

According to the IMDB trivia page for this film, the original novel was set in the 1950s.

[quote] Natalie Wood is abysmally awful.

They could have done so much better with her performance, she gives A LOT to work with. That's what editing is meant for. The person who put her in that wig clearly hated her.

Another bad movie I saw as a kid and never forgot. Favorite line. "I don't have a headache. screams: I HAVE A HEARTAAAAAAAAACHE!!!!!"

Everything about this man seems creepy, awful, venal and manipulative.

[quote]Redford's part should've been played by Tab Hunter.

Compared to Tab Hunter, Redford is an acting genius

R41, your IP address is visible from the moon, are you sure you don't want to take that back ?

Redford was a terrible dramatic actor. Very good at light comedy which is not an inconsiderable talent.

[quote]R19 OP- you should watch "This Property is Condemned" next. I have a feeling that you will really like it.

I really like that movie, and I also think it’s the best performance by Wood. (I am not really one of her FAAAAAAANS!)

Beautiful, yes. A naturally gifted artist, no.

[quote]r24 I think this is Natalie’s best performance. She turns the idea of child star on its head. She is a child star that’s too old-common Hollywood truth. She isn’t really talented but cute when she turns it on. She is just looking for a way out.

Uggh. I’m biased because I love the book - but Daisy is supposed to be a really gifted singer, someone with A VOICE and a deeply instinctive soul for performing. The story opens when she’s 14 or something, and it’s about her maturing as an artist and a person. Wade helps her grow as an artist (encouraging her to take breath control lessons and resist the studio’s saccharine choices for her) but lets her down, personally.

Natalie Wood can’t convey any of that complexity, and her Daisy just seems like a starlet, not a star with a real gift.

I’d love to hear from others who’ve read the novel. Maybe I’m inflating it.

I want to stress that Wood was a genuinely beautiful woman, physically, and it seems like everyone in her life adored her, so she must have been a nice person.

In my opinion she was most often a shallow performer, with a limited bag of tricks. But I know she has her admirers.

R38 Natalie looks pretty much at home diving into that pool. But she was terrified of water!

Q: What type of wood doesn't float?

A: Natalie Wood.

R33, you may have an argument on all movies listed, except Sweet Bird of Youth.

The book is by Gavin Lambert. Does he post on here? What do we think of him?

Whoops. Gavin Lambert is dead to me.

Vivian Vance's favorite film. William Frawley collapsed of a heart attack on Hollywood Boulevard after seeing Inside Daisy Clover.

Q: Why didn’t Natalie take a shower on The Splendor?

A: She was planning to wash up on shore.

R52

Q: What did Patricia Neal have that would have helped Natalie?

A : A good stroke!

R38, Plummer looks so sexy in those clips--posing, always aware of the camera, the way he wore clothes. He was great.

Plummer brings Sexy Evil Alpha Male Glamour to DAISY, just like he did a lot of this earlier roles.

[quote]We need a remake with Elliot Page and Allison Janney.

Catherine Zeta-Jones as Daisy.

[quote]Playing gay was a huge stigma in 1965.

So was, ya know--BEING one.

[quote]^this is datalounge. There are no rules.

True. No rules -- only BOUNDARIES.

[quote] great character actor like Myrna Loy

I'm sorry, R25. Every word in that phrase seems wrong, IMHO.

R38 Your behind-the-scenes footage is more interesting than the movie itself.

Christopher Isherwood appears at 1.00.

Christopher Plummer seems to be limping at 1.32.

And a hairdresser is attending to the star's VERY anachronistic streaked hair at 3.55.

Redford was an abysmal actor. But he was top box office because he was a very pretty face and consistently got the asses in the seats.

If it had to be bad, I wish the film had gone for full camp car crash and starred Connie Stevens.

[quote] full camp car crash

Ruth Gordon was certainly edging towards Grand Guignol.

I don't understand why Ruth Gordon was allowed to keep her caravan in the Santa Monica Pier.

R55 He looks as though he is going to DEVOUR her face.

I bet they had plan that scene carefully; he's six foot of man while she looks like a pygmy waif.

Nat looked her absolute best in the mid to late 60's.She should 've stayed on nose #2

R49 : " Dear Tab your performance is one of the most delightful surprises of my life since I had seen you only in film parts that gave little indication of your range as an artist. My affectionate best wishes. TENNESSEE'

Wood was never more beautiful than in Penelope. Both she and mid 60s New York look fabulous.

Unfortunately it's a terrible movie. But the titles are terrific with a bouncy John Williams score.

[quite] Unfortunately it's a terrible movie

Yes, indeed and it killed off the Hollywood aspirations for this Scottish actor who had just got nominated for an Oscar.

I loved the scenes of Santa Monica pier. The movie came out in 1965 and watching it always reminds me of summer when we used to walk along that pier to get something to eat. I still remember all the shops and little burger and hot dog stands and the carousel. I was 15 in 1965. The pier has changed so much since then.

Like the Jersey shore towns which were so beautiful during that very same period. They were never caught in a movie until after the 70s decay set in.

Natalie Wood's official Instagram account is so unintentionally funny and hyperbolic.

"Natalie was always reading books. The fact that she loved to read continues to be an inspiration to everyone around the world". Like, WTF?! 😂

[italic]Now[/italic] you bitches start filling up the thread?

R70 . . .

Inside Daisy Clover/Release date

February 17, 1966

USA

R68, Natalie's Edith Head wardrobe . . .

I can kind of see how they got the idea of casting her in this from "Gypsy," as Louise is a sort of similar character. Plus she was a child star who'd experienced that rottenness (being raped by Kirk Douglas et al.)

She campaigned very hard for the part, and Lambert was a ' friend '. It's really botched. Mulligan was one bad director.

[quote]it seems like everyone in her life adored her, so she must have been a nice person.

One reason Natalie was very popular - even with perennial 'family man' Redford - was that she put out...with everyone

What do we think about the HBO doc that Gregson-Wagner put out recently ?

R70, I know what you mean. I was much influenced by this film to see L.A. as a romantic, magical place. When I finally got to that pier I was thrilled. I wasn't much of a movie critic in my early teens, lol!

R78 Not EVERYONE.

Also " If Elizabeth Taylor wouldn't, Natale Wood"

"The world has met Daisy Clover. Now....Daisy Clover meets the world." In my little gayling heart, I knew that someone, someday would introduce me in much the same way. Alas, twas neverr to be. And it only occurred to me later in life, that I was much more a Donald O'Connor than a Natalie Wood.

R82, When Natalie backed out of "The Mirror Crack'd" at the last minute, Elizabeth gladly agreed to replace her.

^^ in exchange for donuts

Release date: USA 22 December 1965 (Los Angeles, California)

R86, For one week on one screen in order to qualify for Oscar nominations.

Nice try, though.

R84 what's the story behind that ? I've always wondered? I don't think she could've saved that turd, but surely she would've been better than Taylor. And who was cast in the Novak part ?

Had the bloated Taylor not done the role, we’d have missed out on some lovely caftans.

Like people said in the Brad Pitt vs Robert Redford thread of yore:

Natalie was a girl. Elizabeth was a woman.

I thought the documentary was very loving yet honest. It was good to hear Wagner address the crazy rumors that he had something to do with her death. They offered sis Lana a chance to speak on camera but she turned them down. Natalie seemed like a loyal friend and loving mom. Her death was a tragedy.

[quote]r91 Like people said in the Brad Pitt vs Robert Redford thread of yore: Natalie was a girl. Elizabeth was a woman.

Well, porky Liz certainly had the physical [italic]appetite [/italic]of a woman. (10 women, actually.)

I think Taylor is good in Mirror Cracked, and she certainly is better cast as a diva.

The last thing I saw Wood in was a mediocre TV version of Cat On A Hot Tin Roof with Wagner and Olivier as Big Daddy (!). Taylor in the movie was a much better Maggie.

Regarding Elizabeth, how many 16 year-olds look/looked like this?

R63 Though filmed on the Santa Monica Pier in the film it was the fictional 'Angel Beach' in the 1930s.

[quote]If it had to be bad, I wish the film had gone for full camp car crash and starred Connie Stevens.

Yes! With Troy Donahue in the Redford role.

[quote]If it had to be bad, I wish the film had gone for full camp car crash and starred Connie Stevens.

[quote]Yes! With Troy Donahue in the Redford role.

And Constance Ford, natch, as Connie's mother.

And Cesar Romero as Swan.

As a kid I loved everything I watched on TV except this movie. Even I knew it was a turkey.

See what I mean?! So over the top.

"Natalie at the New York Film Festival. She had good reason to smile! Her recent film “Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice” would take the Big Apple and the world by storm. The fearless way in which Natalie approached her career brought her to even greater heights of superstardom. "

r72 Referring to her hilarious Instagram account,

R101, Natalie owned a piece of "Bob&Carol&Ted&Alice", which made her quite wealthy.

B&C&T&A was her last relevant/hit film so I'm not sure how it brought her to greater heights.

"For "Bob&Carol&Ted&Alice", Natalie Wood decided to gamble her $750,000 fee on a percentage of the gross, earning $5 million over the course of three years. She had deeply regretted declining a similar offer with the box office smash "West Side Story"."

Decided to watch this based on this thread. Couldn’t figure out who was playing Daisy’s kooky sister, so had to look it up. It’s Mrs. Gunnerson, the nanny from Dynansty!

Uh, Dynasty.

Oh my...it’s the “You’re Gonna Hear From Me” outer space number...Nat in her 60s mod outfit, even though the film is set in the 1930s!

Oh pardon me, Mrs. Gunnerson was the COOK not the maid.

R95 all I see is this

R90 that's the worst angle for her. The nose job is terrible. They just shaved off the right side (for Liz) of the bridge, to give it a VivienLeigh-esque turn, and didn't touch the slightly hooked left side . It's like two noses blanded together .Nat's noses were so much better

To be fair look at Rogers and Hart's 1934 film Evergreen starring the very lovely(though supposedly huge selfish pain in the ass) Jessie Matthews which has a scene that comes out of nowhere channeling Metropolis. It is a WTF moment.

For all of its mediocrity, I'd rather sit through INSIDE DAISY CLOVER than through BOB AND CAROL AND TED AND ALICE again. That is one truly awful, horribly dated film that ends up being about nothing.

She was at the height of her beauty in B&C&T&A, and she was really good. It was her swansong on the big screen, but it shows that she had understood the times and how film acting had evolved. She retired when she should have reapped the benefits of her decades long career, like Taylor in the 60's. Bad timing.

I love Natalie but this stinker of a movie was hard to watch. Even Ruth Gordon (was she BORN looking 100?) couldnt save this shit show.

"Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" always reminded me of an extended "Love American Style" segment, missing only the laugh track. It was onward and upward for Mazurzky, to his "An Unmarried Woman" peak.

Inshide Daishy Clover. I shaw it in the theater in early nineteen-shixty-shix.

It's no Legend of Lylah Clare!

The first Lylah...

Streisand's "You're Gonna Hear From Me"

Natalie tries.

DAMMIT! R120 beat me to it. Ol Babs must have just seen the movie - 45 YEARS after it came out.

Old, no one has mentioned Natalie Wood's nose job.

R70, R96 I still don't understand why that insane Ruth Gordon character would be allowed to keep her toilet-less caravan on public property.

After I watched this today on HBO Max, I saw that Natalie’s “Penelope” was also on there and watched that, too. Yikes. Pretty bad, but Peter Falk was fun and there was a bit part by DL fave Arlene Golanka!

I was intrigued by the handsome Black detective, played by Bill Gunn. I had never heard of him but I looked him up. What an interesting life. Playwright, actor, director, gay, died youngish.

My favorite thing to do in a Natalie Wood movie is to look for the ways they disguise her fucked up wrist with bracelets.

R125, She removed it on film only once, for the bathtub scene in "Splendor in the Grass" and only after Elia Kazan spent much time convincing her that no one would wear a bracelet while taking a bath.

[quote]R123 I still don't understand why that insane Ruth Gordon character would be allowed to keep her toilet-less caravan on public property.

Probably a dotty friend of Ruth Gordon’s character owns the store it’s parked next to and they just allowed it. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility.

In the book they live in a motor court, then when that burns down they move to a crumbly apartment with fortune tellers for neighbors.

Penelope trailer...

^^ Wait, was this trailer supposed to make people want to see this movie? Because I think it may have had the opposite effect. ^^

PENELOPE was a big flop. Like INSIDE DAISY CLOVER.

Nat had a fairly spotty career as an adult.

[quote]Nat had a fairly spotty career as an adult.

And yet her career as a whole included several screen classics: "Miracle on 34th Street," "The Searchers," "Rebel Without a Cause," "Splendor in the Grass: and "West Side Story."

R130, Natalie attempted suicide shortly after "Penelope" completed filming and did not make another film for three years.

R106 Whoever she is she was awful.

R131 Her best adult role and film is Carol in B&C&T&A (1969) and she and Robert Culp, Elliott Gould and Dyan Cannon all give their career best performance.

Did she ever reveal what's under the ubiquitous bracelet on her left wrist. What exactly was she covering up?

R135 Swollen wrist from 1949

R135 she's hiding Mickey Rooney in there

R136 pic weirds me out because Natalie Wood's nose job completely changes her look. This one looks like a nose job too, but not as drastic.

[quote]R135 Did she ever reveal what's under the ubiquitous bracelet on her left wrist. What exactly was she covering up?

I think that wrist was crooked from masturbating too much.

Last nose (#3 or #4} too thin and pointy.

early nose (not movie star friendly)

nose #2= perfect

Daisy Clover nose (too thin already IMO)

SPOILED! AM I SPOILED!!!!!!?? Honestly, that scene in the tub from Splendor is the best piece of acting she ever did. Her entire performance in that film is excellent. From what I’ve read about her early life it’s no wonder she excelled at playing a young woman having a nervous breakdown.

Why didn’t they want her on any Charlie’s Angels episodes? She was probably up to the task (?)

Yeah, the last nose job took too much off, and the nose was probably developing cartilage shrinkage as she aged. She'd have had nothing but an undersized nubbin there by sixty, if she'd lived.

[quote]Her best adult role and film is Carol in B&C&T&A (1969) and she and Robert Culp, Elliott Gould and Dyan Cannon all give their career best performance.

You're entitled to your opinion, but, as R25 pointed out, it's a pretty stupid movie that hasn't aged well. It was adapted into a musical in New York early last year in a production that highlighted how thin the original material was. It opened in February and was closed because of the pandemic. I don't think it will be returning.

I love B&C&T&A It's a little time capsule. Elliott couldn't be any sexier. I agree that Splendor is her streetcar named desire. I 've seen it 2000 X and never tire of it. She's uneven. But she always have terrific moments in every movie, that only she, with the training and experience that she had since childhood, can have. She can be alive in front of a camera, in a way that no one else ever could. And she can be heinously bad. There's no one like our Natalie

When she comes through she really comes through. Like in WSS when Chino tells her Bernardo has been killed and also in the final scene from her happiness in seeing Tony until her hatred speech. Also in Gypsy when she has her showdown with Roz at the end of the film. I've never seen it done better.

R147 B&C&T&A is certainly better than the dreadful, unfunny comedies she did in the sixties: Penelope, The Great Race, Sex and the Single Girl. Wood seems more at ease and natural in B&C&T&A than I've ever seen her. She's not brassy and mechanical with wind up emotions as she was in her dramatic films and she looks gorgeous.

[quote]R150 Wood seems more at ease and natural in B&C&T&A than I've ever seen her. She's not brassy and mechanical with wind up emotions as she was in her dramatic films

WTF are you talking about? She’s as mechanical as ever in B&C&T&A

Look at the clip at 01:33 here. That’s not acting… it’s simply moving and talking in a deadly, measuredly rehearsed way, without feeling or inspiration.

ANYONE could have played Carol in B&C&T&A.

[quote]ANYONE could have played Carol in B&C&T&A.

Nobody called me! And I had just lost my shot at "The Brady Bunch"!

[quote] and I already know Natalie is going to [bold] go hilariously over the top[/bold] in her [bold]notoriously campy[/bold] breakdown scene in the recording booth.

FIFY

Including Vance?

She always reminds me of Winona Ryder. Both of them were former child atars who again huge stars in their twenties because they were so pretty and because they were so likeable and charismatic on screen: it's hard to watch anyone else when they're on camera, even if you hate them. But neither of them took time off between being child actors and being adult actors to really develop their crafts and unlearn the little tricks they had klearned as child actors the way Jodie Foster did. So their acting is mostly embarrassing to watch on screen, but they both still are capable of genuinely fine moments (Wood in the final scene in "Gypsy," Ryder in the scene in "Age of Innocence" where she tells Daniel Day-Lewis she's pregnant).

Wino was a child actress ???

[quote]R152 ANYONE could have played Carol in B&C&T&A.

Natalie Wood was just there for her safe star wattage, to clean up the film’s image. Casting the role of Alice was more involved - Faye Dunaway and Tuesday Weld were offered the part, for instance.

I'm seriously worried about Tuesday. WHET her ???? some queen here MUST know. Last time I saw her was in a tragic interview from the late 80's or early 90's, that's been scrapped off youtube, the crazy was showing BIG TIME. I've been asking in a lot of threads recently, and no one answers. WHET TUESDAY ???

[quote]R157 Wino was a child actress ???

Well, she was 14 (?) when she got her first role. Some might consider that child-ish.

that's a teenage actor, there's a world of difference

14 is "over the hill" in Hollywood

Okay, boomer.

OMG, Natalie worked with that PERV Orson Welles!

R164 Orson was a perv ? how? I never knew

Orson turned to food towards the end of his life because he claimed he had tried EVERYTHING else.

How does that make him a perv ? he's like a basic Datalounger

Orson in a caftan

Orson in a caftan #2

Well what do you think a basic Datalounger is?

A basic datalounger in my mind is a white, overweight, single gay man, who's given up on sex and relationships decades ago and stuffs himself in his smallish flat/mother's basement, while bitching about movie stars from 60 years ago, houses he couldn't afford in his dreams, pretty boys is never met the like, and politics he knows nothing about, not necessarily a "perv" (even though I suspect a fair number are actually pedos)

Oooh, I like the cut of his jib, R168!

And R171 how many of those characteristics on that list can you check off?

The other night night on Dick Cavett, Geraldine Fitzgerald finally quashed the long running rumor that Orson was the father of her son. I had never even heard that rumor.

R173...all of them ?

A mother will never need a best friend when she has a Daughter.

Nat was good when she had a good director. Otherwise, not so great.

Love With the Proper Stranger

R171, not from 60 years ago, you fool. From 80 YEARS AGO!

Orson Welles was a peculiar individual. I have absolutely no problem with calling him a perv. Get over it Orson suck ups.

For some reason, the Daisy Clover character reminded me a little of Patty Duke.

Daisy Clover was SUPPOSED to be 15!

Patty had Billie.

At first I thought “Old Chap” was Daisy’s grandmother. Ruth Gordon sure wasn’t believable as the mother of a 15 year old. Nevertheless, she was the best actor in this turd.

Ruth really thought she had a chance to win the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress that year.

Three years later, she did.

According to IMDb both Patty Duke and Elizabeth Hartman were both considered for Daisy.

^sorry for the extra both

She also did that dumb movie Marjorie Morningstar with Gene Kelly

Fun fact: the girl in the striped T-shirt at R182 is a young Donna McKechnie of A CHORUS LINE fame.

It was wise of them to not ask Patty Duke to do much real dancing: she's hopeless.

Oh God, don’t wake the Patty Duke troll.

[quote]r159 I'm seriously worried about Tuesday. WHET her ???? some queen here MUST know. Last time I saw her was in a tragic interview from the late 80's or early 90's, that's been scrapped off youtube, the crazy was showing BIG TIME. I've been asking in a lot of threads recently, and no one answers. WHET TUESDAY ???

She has a reclusive nature, and is probably holed away back East somewhere. Maybe she got decent divorce settlements and/or alimony from her ex husbands (who included Dudley Moore)? Or, maybe she walked away from those marriages with nothing. She’s descended from a society family in Tuxedo Park or some such area… but grew up poor. Maybe she came into family money later? Or maybe she invested her earnings well.

ANYWAY, she probably lives very modestly and quietly, certainly out of the limelight. She periodically took time away from acting even while popular, and a journalist once asked her what drove her into seclusion. “I think it was a Buick,” she answered.

[quote] She has a reclusive nature, and is probably holed away back East

Thanks, but that's not good enough. IS SHE OK ?

I don’t know! [italic]No one knows![/italic]

She has a daughter, tho. Maybe find her on social media and convey we’re all concerned??

Tuesday Weld will be 78 in August and has been retired from acting for years. Why would anyone expect to hear from her? Not everyone validates their lives by being on social media.

^ Tuesday should sink into DECREPITUDE in private.

who wants to track down the daughter ?

[quote] I don’t know! No one knows!

Well DO something! LOOK for her! FIND her!

Has anyone checked the cabins for Tuesday?

R185, If Patty had done "Inside Daisy Clover", she may not have gotten "Valley of the Dolls".

Can you imagine having both Helen Keller *and* Nelly O'Hara on your resume?

^ NeEly, dammit!

If Natalie had done Ordinary People, she may have lived a few more decades. But Robert Redford was done with her and she was scratched off his list. Hell hath no fury like an actor tricked into playing gay.

R201 what a POS Redford was, rejecting her. She MADE him. NOBODY wanted him. Tab was 10000 X the actor Redford was and should've played all his parts. Nat was so dumb with men. She even cameod for his stupid "candidate" flop, playing herself, being STUNNING. But I guess "you're not the woman for the part" sounds better than "I'm fucking Mary at the moment, dear". And he has the gall the appear in the HBO doc. EVERY BODY KNOWS they were estranged after the "ordinary people" snub. I went to a theatre screening of Gatsby some years ago, and peolpe LAUGHED at him, do you hear ? THEY LAUGHED AT HIM

[quote]"I'm fucking Mary at the moment, dear"

Mary Tyler Moore did not fuck directors, she barely fucked her husbands - her admission. Mary wrote that she and Grant Tinker never saw each other naked during their entire marriage. Mary Richards would have fucked Redford (after months of dating), Mary Tyler Moore? NO.

So she just played scrabble with Warren Beatty right ?

You are very confused, R204.

[quote]Can you imagine having both Helen Keller *and* Nelly O'Hara on your resume?

Nelly O'Hara is my new drag name.

the hoar was not above sleeping with Beatty, but wouldn't touch Redford ? I say YOU are confused, lady, with your "saint mary wouldn't sleep with her husband even"

[quote]the hoar was not above sleeping with Beatty, but wouldn't touch Redford ?

Oh, dear.

@1:25 C.Plummer, and then Tuesday and Nat, chatting the afternoon away. Beautiful little kittens.

MM

I love Marjorie Morningstar. Nat gives a classic glamorous performance that Lana, Liz or Bacall (Sirk period) would be proud of

Redford knew he was playing a gay man, he does his own, modified version of swishing, in the part (calling her "Dear Heart" -- come on). I have read that he didn't want to play it as written and had them tone down the gay quite a bit.

[quote] that's a teenage actor, there's a world of difference

Paging Miss Hairsplitter... Miss Heidi Hairsplitter... you have a phone call on line one, Miss Hairsplitter....

R212, you have not read this thread.

R214 You're right, I didn't have time to. Sorry if I fucked up. (No idea why, still no time to read it.)

And yet, somehow you still had time enough to impart to us your expert knowledge.

There’s a curious gaggle of stans here (or maybe it’s just 1 lone person) who think the beauuuuuuufooowl Natalie Wood, Liz Taylor, and even Lana Turner (for god’s sake) were fabulous actresses.

There’s NOTHING about Natalie Wood that conveys the rigid, repressed selfishness of Beth in Otdinary People. And she wasn’t gifted enough to create personas like that so drastically outside her superficial range.

Please stop saying Wood should have done Ordinary People, Liz should have done the Exorcist…. or that Lana should have acted in ANYTHING after her claim-to-fame tits began to sag!

Mary Tyler Moore was not a better actress than Natalie Wood. Mary was only a taller actress than Natalie Wood.

R216 Well, I majored in film history, what's your expert knowledge?

I don't necessarily think MTM was a brilliant actress. She was a talented and facile comic actress who excelled on the Dick Van Dyke show and then her the MTM Show. She was also, according to her costars, incredibly hard-working and diligent.

But she gave a really fresh, fully realized, and unexpected performance in ORDINARY PEOPLE. Who knows whether director Redford inspired it, the script, or perhaps the way it resonated with her own life experiences, but her work still stands out and holds up, 40 years later. MTM will always have that.

Dear film history major @ R219 - I beg you, will you PLEASE explain to the queens here that Wood, Taylor and Turner were FAR from top tier actresses, on the whole, performance wise???

Every actor hopefully falls into 1 or 2 lucky roles that meshes with their personality and lets them strut their stuff more than usual to good effect… but that doesn’t make them super talented. It’s just the byproduct of making 50 movies!

Your immediate attention to this matter is appreciated. THANK YOU.

Movie stars aren't always great actors...and vice versa.

[quote] Well, I majored in film history, what's your expert knowledge?

You have a BA in film history? Oh my God, what an enormous expert you must be! You are now Datalounge's official final word on all film questions.

[quote] There’s a curious gaggle of stans here (or maybe it’s just 1 lone person) who think the beauuuuuuufooowl Natalie Wood, Liz Taylor, and even Lana Turner (for god’s sake) were fabulous actresses.

Oh excuse us . You ARE so vastly superior. YOUR taste, YOUR opinions prevail and ARE everything (some of us still think these ladies gave good hollywood glamour, we apologize if in any way we suggested that they were the best actresses of their time). Thank you for enlightening us with your knowledge R217.

[quote]R224 you must be the joy of every party

Well, just the parties Wood, Taylor and Turner weren’t at, maybe.

I would slap their emotionless faces. Viciously!

The great actors don't have to look or act like movie stars...

R221 Elizabeth Taylor was a talented actress. She won as many Academy Awards as Bette Davis (and was nominated 5 times). Personally I think Natalie Wood was a very good actress, I think her performances in Splendor In The Grass and Love With The Proper Stranger (and even West Side Story and Gypsy) prove that. Lana Turner was great but she was better than people think, she deserved her nomination for Peyton Place and was very good in Madame X, for example.

*wasn't great

Re: r226

I have written this here before… but I had dessert in a restaurant with Kathy Bates and her husband (?) in NYC once around the time of MISERY, and honestly what struck me -aside from noting she was a warm, gracious person - was that in person she’s very attractive. Almost beautiful. Very even features with great olive skin, lovely eyes, glossy hair, good teeth…

It made me think how high screen standards are. If you’re not an undisputed knockout, chances are you’re relegated to playing “the plain girl.” Or worse yet, monsters/hags.

[quote] I had dessert in a restaurant with Kathy Bates

I remember your post. You were sitting on a terrace , she was wearing a yellow blouse, and suddenly 26 children tried to board her

R220, it's because the she was able to reveal the REAL Mary in that role, just as Elizabeth Taylor gave us the REAL Elizabeth in parts of Virginia Woolf. It works, even with a limited talent, because it's so TRUE. Then critics fall over themselves oohing and aahing about what a great performance so-in-so was able to give.

I hope the "film historian" is jerk and a half David Ehrenstein, we could use some more laughs here.

As an aside can we talk about Robert Redford. This may deserve its own thread but he is terrible actor. From “Barefoot In the Park” - in which he is never funny to “ The Way We Were”- where he is more object than human. The closest he gets to be perhaps enjoyable is in “ Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”- but it is mainly Newman and Ross. He is not that great looking. I grew up in a beach town and Redford looks were ubiquitous. He is so flat and emotionally cool. He makes Gary Cooper and Charlton Heston look like Gene Kelly. His luck was that he was well liked in Hollywood. But you can never take him as a serious actor. Tab Hunter was more of an actor and better looking!

Tab Hunter freak above, you just ruined your anti-Redford argument with that comment.

[quote]The closest he gets to be perhaps enjoyable is in “ Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid”

The Sundance Kid only required attitude, a lot of male led roles were like that at the time. Just bitch bitch bitch.

Redford is very funny in Barefoot. Maybe Nichols spoon fed him every line.

I love “Rosemary’s Baby” the way it is… but it would be so interesting to see it with the initial casting choices of Tuesday Weld and Robert Redford. The couple was supposed to be all-American-sunshiny to contrast with the darkness engulfing them.

John Cassavetes was an odd choice for the role of Guy, physically.

Taylor would have been great in "The Exorcist" -- as Pazuzu.

What makes someone effective on screen is a combination of things. But at the most basic level, they have to be someone who’s interesting to watch.

You’ll notice this in real life, like at a party. There are just some people (and they may not be loud or animated) who are compelling to observe. There’s something going on within them that is intriguing. They are charismatic. You are interested in what they will say next. Or what they will withhold.

If a performer does not have this quality, which can be subtle, they’re usually not going to go very far. Because they’re simply not going to be worth watching for 2 hours. They will be too ordinary to be worthy of drama.

R237 That sounds perfectly reasonable and sensible. And those charismatic people are good on screen.

And I call them 'movie stars' or 'movie performers' rather than actors. Most of the people in Hollywood are deluding themselves by calling themselves actors. Acting is a different profession.

Inside Daisy Clover was torture to watch and even more torturous to finish. I hated it from start to finish.

R239 = Robert Redford.

[quote] Tab Hunter was more of an actor and better looking

R232 Thank you for this. I am crying tears of JOY. Yes yes a million times.

I always confused this with This Property Is Condemned.

[quote]R238 And I call them 'movie stars' or 'movie performers' rather than actors. Most of the people in Hollywood are deluding themselves by calling themselves actors. Acting is a different profession.

Thank you.

Some screen performers have both. Like here, not only is there something intriguing about Weld’s personal chemistry (“She has a secret,” George Cukor said of actresses he admired) but she actually behaves like someone who’s having a human experience. She’s not just reciting lines, but is caught up in the imagination of the scenario and free to convey emotion.

The set up for the scene is years prior, this same gang robbed a store where nymphomaniac Weld was a clerk, and she enjoyed being slapped around and raped by De Niro in the process. But the men were all masked.

Tuesday wouldn't have done Rosemary. She never wanted that level of visibility, and the script had SUCCESS stamped all over it. Mia took the part because she knew it was a star making turn and she would only have to take one film a year after that. She even discussed it with Sinatra, on these exact terms.Redford and Mia Farrow are bad enough together in Gatsby, why would you want them to ruin another classic. Never in the entire history of acting, were there two people with less chemistry. It's like mixing milk and cold water. Redford looks at Mia as if she were a pile of unwashed dishes at a fish restaurant. Polanski managed to not ruin that movie almost until the ending. At least he has THAT.

Many people haven't understood Tab's message. Doesn't matter. It's THEIR bad taste.

[quote]R244 Redford and Mia Farrow are bad enough together in Gatsby, why would you want them to ruin another classic?

I wasn’t thinking of Redford in relation to Farrow, but in relation to the part of Guy.

A poignant thing about the novel is at the end Rosemary is partially sorrowful her husband made the deal with the coven because he never had to. Guy was talented, experienced, and very good looking, and success would have come his way naturally if he’d just waited. He didn’t have to pimp his wife out to satan!

There’s something powerful and true about this, re: the insecurity of actors like Guy. Casavetes performs the role well, but having Guy be more ordinary looking takes something away from the original concept. (Not in a deadly way, though.)

R234, He had the luxury of refining the role for a year on Broadway.

That's where Nichols directed him; Gene Saks directed the movie.

Re: The Great Gatsby, this is a terrible thing to say, but I’ve never found the actual plot to be that interesting.

R249 You do 'Great Gatsby' for its prose rather than its plot.

The actual plot is cleverly summarised in this perspicacious cartoon—

I'm a minority here, but I think Mia was really good on Gatsby. Her voice WAS full of money, and she conveyed the shallow/neurotic/vapid/spoiled bourgeois very well. Maybe she didn't really meant to play her like that, but with her, you can feel that Daisy's charm is another delusional fantasy of Gatsby 's. But I haven't bothered to read the nouvel, so maybe she' s not written like that.

[quote] Guy was talented, experienced, and very good looking, and success would have come his way naturally

It really was a part for Tab Hunter then

I get Tab Hunter mixed up with Troy Donahue.

Which one was in A Summer Place?

That was Troy, R253. He was the untalented version of Tab.

R251, Does anyone feel the originally intended Daisy, Ali MacGraw, would have been better?

Back in the day John Garfield with a great director might have been a wonderful Gatsby. Redford in that role was one of the great miscastings. Sam Waterston and Scott Wilson were perfect. Weld might have been a good Daisy.

R251... No Ali, honey, no one... Should you do this to yourself babe ?

R253 proud of yourself ? What 's wrong with you ? You did it on PROPOSE didn't you ?

R253, Which one was married to Suzanne Pleshette?

[quote] I get Tab Hunter mixed up with Troy Donahue

R253, Tab had good bones and looked good until he was 60s. Troy had a face as soft as bread dough before it goes into the oven. He lost his looks at 35.

R257, You're right, I'm sorry. Oh, wait! Love means never having to say you're sorry.

Tuesday Weld is an outstanding actress, and I find her fascinating.

(I know — Mary!)

Have any of you DLers seen “Soldier in the Rain”? It’s a strange, not-very-good movie, but the scene where Tuesday Weld and Jackie Gleason go on a date at a carnival (yes, you read that correctly) is terrific, and Weld is brilliant. It was on YouTube for a while, not sure if it’s still there.

For whatever reason, I don’t think she was very career-minded, and the number of roles she turned down over the years that were great successes for the actresses who ended up playing them is astonishing.

Troy Donahue and Suzanne Pleshette were married, briefly, R259.

Tab looked good well into his 80's.

Tuesday Weld was never considered for Rosemary's Baby, Jesus. It was a best selling book and they needed a star - an adult star, not a teen star - to play the lead. It was JANE FONDA who was considered with Redford to play the lead. That would be an interesting follow-up to Barefoot in the Park. In the end, John Cassavetes was a perfect creepy Guy, doesn't matter what the book said. The script is extremely demeaning to the Rosemary character, which make it hard for me to watch, Guy treats her like a child.

R268, in both Robert Evans’s book “The Kid Stays in the Picture” and Roman Polanski’s book “Roman”, they write that Polanski wanted Tuesday Weld for Rosemary, but Evans pushed for Mia Farrow. Both of them also state this on the retrospective documentary included on the DVD. Jane Fonda is never mentioned in either book or documentary.

Polanski also wrote in his book that he offered Weld the role of Lady Macbeth in his film, but she turned it down.

I’m sorry, I meant R265 , not R268 — I wasn’t looking into the future!

Robert Evans was a self-aggrandizing, coked-up asshole. I wouldn't trust anything he said long after the fact.

I’d rather watch Inside Danny Glover

Tuesday WAS Polanski's first choice. Is R265 the same queen who FORBID us to say that LANA TURNER or Elizabeth Taylor had ANY quality WHATSOEVER ??? She's exhausting

Simon Callow makes a reasonably persuasive argument in "The Road to Xanadu" that Orson Welles was bi. Everything else I've read about him portrays him as Oedipally fixated on fully mature beauties with dark hair.

Roman Polanski was very into the visuals of how a character looked. He would have sketches done of how he envisioned them and then try to find performers that matched. (I guess he had faith he could elicit the performances he wanted later.)

His concept for Rosemary was that she should look like an idealized Midwestern blonde, very All American and wholesome and healthy. That’s why his initial choice was Weld.

Tuesday Weld was too busy to take on any of these roles, being the High Priestess of the Hollywood Witch Coven and all.

I've played the male lead in BAREFOOT IN THE PARK (community theatre, don't get excited) and it's not a very hard part. Easy to get laughs. I thought Redford was pretty good. I gave up acting years ago---hated the backstage drama--but BAREFOOT was the most fun I had onstage. I did, however, want to kill the girl who played my wife by the end of the production.

[quote]R265 they needed a star - an adult star, not a teen star - to play the lead.

Weld was 24 when “Rosemary’s Baby” was being cast. Two years older than Mia Farrow.

[quote]R274 …community theatre, don't get excited. I gave up acting years ago---hated the backstage drama

You are the TUESDAY WELD of your little town ! !

She walked away, too!

Haha, r276. That was a good one. Just call me Tuesday. I'm not a witch, though.

Tutu to your friends.

Are you sure you weren't playing Othello, r274?

Tuesday was no Wednesday Thursday.

[quote]R266 Polanski also wrote in his book that he offered Weld the role of Lady Macbeth in his film, but she turned it down.

He has Lady M do her sleepwalking scene in the nude. I imagine this would have been discussed when the offer was made. Perhaps that turned her off.

Francesca Annis did it.

r281 is correct. She didn't want to do the nude scene.

I think Weld knew she wouldn't be able to handle being a big star so she preferred being an under-the-radar cult figure. It gave her a lasting "cool" factor. Hence being on the cover of Matthew Sweet's Girlfriend album.

She was living in the Aspen area for years but in 2018 got a secluded place in the Hollywood Hills. So for all those worried, she's fine. She sends her love.

"...her co-starring role"???

Thanks R282. I wonder if the Welds finally gave her her due. Aren't they like, the father founders of America or something ? They're made of money

R282, When did Tuesday last work? What does she live on?

Does the son she had with Dudley Moore support her or did he share his inheritance with her?

Polanski Macbeth is based on Laurence Olivier 's stratford production of 1958. With Leigh's sexy Lady M.

[quote]I’d rather watch Inside Danny Glover

Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll post one of his colonoscopy videos on YouTube.

I want to watch PRETTY POISON and PLAY IT AS IT LAYS, but I can't, I JUST CAN'T (and I hope you'll ask WHY)

Gorgeous couple — and Weld is wonderful!

Nice singing voice. Sounds a bit like Connie Francis.

Sheila James Kuehl remembers Tuesday Weld with warmth and compassion.

Okay, since no one is asking. I HATE Anthony Perkins with a purple passion for what he did to Tab.

Natalie remembered by Mary Badham

Tuesday and Jimmy are ICONIC in THIEF

That's lovely, r291.

Tuesday Weld is terrific in George Axelrod’s “Lord Love a Duck”, and has three standout scenes: the supremely weird, unforgettable scene where she teases/coaxes her father into buying her twelve cashmere sweaters, her vividly real reaction to the death of one of the major characters, and this bitchy locker room scene with pretty Lynn Carey (daughter of Macdonald Carey).

Weld in ROSEMARY'S BABY? That would have been interesting.

I've often thought of Mia Farrow as a real See-You-Next-Tuesday, myself.

Strange to think that Mia is a contemporary of Nat Wood. They seem to belong to completely different generations. yet they were . Mia peaked in the 80's, and she looked incredibly young in the molester's movies

The love we feel:

I thought Tuesday was terrific in "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" and deserving of her Oscar nomination.

Same R300, she was incredible

Thanks for that, R293. I liked Mary Badham in that film. Unlike the critics, I liked the whole movie--written (adapted) by Coppola I believe.

Coppola sort of disowned the script, because he didn't want Natalie. The project was originally developped for Taylor and Burton (puke here)...I guess after the triumph of BOOM (aka the milk train doesn't stop him anymore), they felt we needed more of them in a completely miscast Tennessee's bad one act play. Thankfully, the box office told them otherwise.

[quote] The project was originally developped for Taylor and Burton

TPIC? That would have been a disaster! Im trying to picture it and am cackling.

Why not ? after all, Taylor was COMPLETELY convincing as a vegas chorus girl in THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN

I watched this movie as a kid on tv and couldn’t figure out what was going on. Bad enough the movie itself was self-censored by not coming out with saying Wade was gay, but it was also chopped up by tv censors…especially because it was shown as the afternoon movie. I remember watching Darling, Room at the Top, Georgie Girl & A Taste of Honey and not understanding the core of any of those movies either due to tv censorship. I didn’t even try to sit through Tennessee Williams movies, with all the undulating, sweaty Southern women. I was like “WTF? Shut that OFF.”

Natalie Wood was gorgeous and there was nobody like her before or since,

[quote]r298 Strange to think that Mia is a contemporary of Nat Wood.

Farrow was almost a decade younger than Wood. I would not consider them contemporaries.

That’s like saying Faye Dunaway and Glenn Close are contemporaries.

I've got to hand it to Robert Redford. He is very loyal to any of his former leading ladies. Always praises/sticks up for them.

'I've played the male lead in BAREFOOT IN THE PARK (community theatre, don't get excited) and it's not a very hard part. Easy to get laughs.'

Patrick Wilson in the Broadway revival didn't get one. But then neither did anyone else in that production. He did however get gasps when he appeared in jockey shorts which I don't believe was in the original production. Well Redford doesn't appear in his underwear in the movie.

Mia Farrow did no nude scene in Rosemary's Baby - it was a body double.

The Tuesday Weld worshipper on this thread needs to back up its claims. How about a link?

[quote]Redford doesn't appear in his underwear in the movie.

Robert Redford did not/will not appear in his underwear in ANY movie.

[quote]R310 Mia Farrow did no nude scene in Rosemary's Baby - it was a body double. The Tuesday Weld worshipper on this thread needs to back up its claims.

Weld turned down Polanski’s [bold]MACBETH[/bold] (1971) because it required nudity…. not ROSEMARY’S BABY.

This 1971 interview with Weld is revealing. She doesn’t even take off her dark glasses till halfway through. She’s wearing a frumpy granny skirt and her hair isn’t styled… but that’s the difference between her and a star like Wood (who was dolled up to the nines round the clock.) I don’t think Weld liked selling herself as a commodity. She was there to - reluctantly - talk. Not to make an impression as a bombshell.

33:00 mark:

I always found the Tuesday Weld/Dudley Moore union puzzling.

Let's be frank, R314.

Susan Weld was odd. Producers chose Susan Weld because she looked like "an easy lay". Her bio on Wiki talks about Susan Weld's odd upbringing.

Redford wanted to be an artist and went to Paris to do so. I feel from what I've read about him that he just fell into acting. Directing gives him more artistic input and he IS a good director, in my opinion. As an actor I find him good looking, but not emotive.

R316, are you aware that Redford was thrown out of college for his drinking? He fell into any profession that would have him.

Has anyone ever thought that Natalie might still be alive ? RJ was still drunk when he identified the body. It could have been someone else. Someone who looked like Nat, only bloated. Natalie could be hiding in a cave or a fisher cabin. She could be confused and frightened, especially if RJ assaulted her. She could have survived on seafood, coconuts and wild birds. Or moss. There must be very nutritious species of moss on the island. She could have been there all this time, in a remote part of the island, it's has been known that people who have experience a trauma and gone missing are found decades later , alive, in the wild. It happens ALL the time, in Russia et c and Nat IS russian, or maybe she's disabled, or stuck in a crevace. Has the police really combed the coast ? It seems to me that they were satisfied with A body. Has someone REALLY searched the coast ?

R318 Has anyone checked the cabins on the shore?!?

R318, Wagner did not identify the body. He sent the skipper, Dennis Davern, to do it.

R318, They just need to look for an 83-year-old woman wearing a bracelet on her left wrist.

Even better then, Davern was high as a kit, he probably wouldn't have known Natalie from a starfish. Maybe the old crazy cat lady hoarding near the Catalina supermarket IS Natalie. Or maybe she's in one of the caves and Jimmy Dean's and Sal's spirits have protected her and fed her all this time. Why don't someone DO SOMETHING ??

Nat ? is that you gurl ?

What would Natalie's life and career look like had she lived?

What would she have done after BRAINSTORM? More movies, theatre, perhaps a network sitcom?

Would she have stayed married to (homosexualist) RJ?

I remember that one episode of a morning show with Inside Katie Couric, was that a remake?

Tuesday also probably didn't want to fuck Roman, which reportedly is a requirement he makes of his lead actresses.

R324 No. Natalie would have divorced RJ after a few years, and married Keith Baxter. She would have flopped in Anastasia. She would have embarrassed herself in 1 more feature film, and 2 straight-to-dvd projects, then she would have stuck to guest starring onTV, before gradually moving to producing. She would be on nose #6 and horrible facelift #2 , and would have cameod in WWS II, only for the DVD's extra features. (It would have been cancelled anyway(. Her only prominent work in the 90's and 00's would've been a special appearence at the Wanamaker organ centenary festival at Macy's , handling samples of cheese to the incredulous crowds ( "are you Natalie Wood ?"), a short stint in 2 episodes of Friends as Ross and Monica's dad crazy russian 2nd cousin twice removed, and a reunion with Tab Hunter to present best documentary at the 1996 AA. She would be currently curating her Insta, Twitter and Faebook accounts HERSELF like fellow sixties icon Mia F, posting incessantly about important health issues, on behalf of UNICEF, and we would ALL wish she had died in her prime, like Marilyn Monroe.

[quote] Tuesday also probably didn't want to fuck Roman, which reportedly is a requirement he makes of his lead actresses.

It's not a ' requirement'. THEY want it. Even when they say NO they mean YES. That's the name of the game. It takes 2 to tango.

Re: Polanski casting for looks, Charles Grodin clashed with the director in his Dr. Hill scenes, and when he asked why he was cast if he was doing everything “wrong” was told it was because he looked like the character.

Dunaway was cast in CHINATOWN because Polanski thought she looked like a wealthy, mysterious woman from the 1930s.

Dunaway was cast because they could have her for cheap and Fonda turned them down

Sorry wrong link

The real Sue

If Natalie Wood had lived, ten years later who would be in her fan base? The 50+ years old fans from the 1950s and 60s? The gay men of that age? To the younger generation she's be "the mother of._____" in a sitcom or TV drama just like Miss Barbara Stanwyck was in The Big Valley. Absolutely no producing other than in name only.

[quote]I've got to hand it to Robert Redford. He is very loyal to any of his former leading ladies. Always praises/sticks up for them.

That's NOW, sometimes. He does not talk about Dunaway or Katherine Ross. Not a word on Mia Farrow, Susan Sarandon, Glenn Close, Debra Winger, Susan Clark, Jane Alexander or Streep. He had an affair with Natalie, and talked-up Mary Tyler Moore to sell Ordinary People. He must like Fonda since worked with her four times. Demi Moore? He never said a work or "stuck up" for her when she was down. When the subject came up in 1974, he said about Streisand "she'd talk and talk and talk and drive me nuts." * NOW, it's "I loved working with her..."

* Redford does not like to rehearse or flesh out a role

R322, Hilarious.

R333, Natalie was deeply hurt when Redford wouldn't even return her calls about possibly playing Beth in "Ordinary People".

Natalie Wood was first offered the Faye Dunaway role in "The Towering Inferno".

She found the script schlocky, but obviously Robert Wagner didn't.

Natalie would have looked like a whore in that dress.

R335, then Redford's opinion of HER TOO has been revised for promote his graciousness.

weird that she rejected that part, considering that Newman, Mcqueen, Holden, Astaire, Jones and co signed in. Was she a bit dumb, perhaps ?

[quote]Was she a bit dumb, perhaps ?

Not to want to appear in a big-budget schlockfest? Signs pretty smart to me.

Bob Redford is such a generous actor. he really lifts you. He's the kind of partner who really wants you to shine. At 6 am, he's behind the camera , serving you his lines, even if he's not in the shot that day. I would jump at any chance to work with him again.

R340, excuse me, she made METEOR for chrissakes.

That schlockfest was nominated for best picture, r340. It was A-List schlock....and very entertaining and profitable schlock at that.

Last year during lockdown, I treated myself with a disaster movie festival. I watched them all. Even AVALANCHE. I hadn't seen TOWERING since I was a kid, and it really is the best. At some point, they reach the roof, and a bunch of whores breaks loose and try to board the helicopter, resulting in it's crashing on the roof. The actresses are HILARIOUS. the was they sashay their stupid asses and wave their arms at the helicopter, like Paris Hilton and Nicole on acid made me LOL for a solid 10 minutes

R343, I hear the big names they all had a piece of the profits in exchange for salary, and all made MILLIONS

R337 Natalie would have looked every bit as gorgeous as Faye, here she is in the same kind of frock..."yummmm, who's the architect who desingned YOU?"

Earthquake, Airport '75 and Inferno came out within a month of each other. The two studios had each bought a fire disater book (The Tower and The Glass Inferno). Instead of competing with each other, they joined forces and ended up with a much higher quality schlockfest. Much bigger budget, a screenplay that didn't have to be written from scratch, and a starrier A-List cast than the other disaster movies. I think the biggest thing it had going for it was the fire started early and therefore the suspense. You didn't have to sit through 45 minutes of soap opera exposition until the disaster finally happens.

Yes at the time it was known as Shake N' Bake.

Natalie at least got to speak Russian in Meteor. Ms. Dunaway's part in Towering Inferno is such a nothing role. One of those occasions where you can really see how awful the roles for women in the '70s were.

Faye manages to bring a lot to this role. Meteor must have been edited to death, because I can't see what Natalie saw in that nothing part. Apart from speaking russian and flirting with Sean (ok, that in itself) there is nothing to it

Disaster movies aren't about the depth of the characters, r349.

What about the width of the characters ?

Natalie would've been great playing a role as a Russian operative on "The Americans."

I know she had a baby but she didn't capitalize on B&C&T&A's success at ALL. Didn't work for 4 years (minus that cameo in The Candidate) and comes back in a TV movie? Who thought that was a good decision? Her career never recovered from that.

They blew up my beach house those bastards!

R354 she has been working since age 4 , she wanted to focus on her family + she had been a major star through decades, and she probably didn't think it would be so hard to come back after a few years. The panorama had completely changed. People didn't want great beauties anymore. Ugly and political was the fashion of the day. A TV movie allowed her to come home early

I think Tab Hunter is heartbreaking in SWEET KILL.There. I said it

R241, that describes Barbara Stanwyck. ONLY Barbara Stanwyck.

[quote]People didn't want great beauties anymore

Natalie Wood was not a great beauty

R359 = Rita Moreno

[quote]r356 she probably didn't think it would be so hard to come back after a few years. The panorama had completely changed.

Sorry - the entertainment industry has always needed and employed gorgeous women.

Redford owed Natalie big time and at a crucial moment in her career told her to go fuck herself. He now has the face he always deserved.

[quote] - the entertainment industry has always needed and employed gorgeous women.

OH YOU MEAN LIKE STREEP, KEATON, DUVALL, SPACEK and all the hideous "ingenues" of the 70's ? clearly you weren't around, or you have long term memory loss. The actresses of the 70's were heinous looking. Puke inducing horses like Streep . Ewww

[quote] Redford owed Natalie big time and at a crucial moment in her career told her to go fuck herself.

and now parades himself in the stupid HBO documentary of the Gregson girl. I would respect her if she had interviewed Walken along the lines of "how about telling us what happened that night", but this pointless exercise , cashing in on her mother...sad

I saw a news story this morning about three people who were found dead of carbon monoxide poisoning on a boat and wondered if that's what happened to Natalie.

[quote]r362 Redford owed Natalie big time and at a crucial moment in her career told her to go fuck herself. He now has the face he always deserved.

1st: Redford’s career would have been fine without Miss Natalie Wood. Perhaps better, as the films he made with her were not roaring successes.

2nd: He certainly wasn’t obliged to give her the lead in his directorial debut, especially considering she was wrong for the role.

R363 = gay and bitching about fugly WOMEN??? There are pills for that condition.

R366 = Sibylle Szaggars, Redford's ugly German wife.

She would have been as good as Moore without a doubt. The way he gushes about her in his TCM remembers spot he says she started his Hollywood career when he was basically an unknown in movies. Watch it. He's a fucking actor. As in a fucking phony.

In fact it is said he ghosted her when she wanted the role so badly and she desperately need it. No returned calls. Nasty.

'needed'

R359 should have gone to Specsavers.

"She would have been as good as Moore without a doubt. "

Oh bullshit. Wood was never much of an actress, no depth, no range, could go entire films without showing a glimpse of real feeling. She was utterly wrong for dramas about people who are meant to seem as real as your neighbors, she was better at glamour.

Did she ever make a "kitchen sink drama"? Because really, that's what "Ordinary People" was, even if it was with a spotless, state of the art kitchen sink, that had been scrubbed until it's sterile enough to use in an operating room.

She's great in WSS(fuck Rita) and she's great in Gypsy. You are blind. But even you have to admit if he did indeed ghost her it was pretty shitty.

Buck never would have ghosted Natalie.

Oh for God's sake, R374. She was weak in WSS and barely passable in "Gypsy", and how nice are you to co-workers you haven't seen in 15-20 years?

She's terrific in both. And considering she gave Redford a big boost at the beginning of his movie career at his own admission and he knew she was at a low point so his treatment of her was lousy. She's also very good in Marjorie Morningstar though the movie is admittedly disappointing.

[quote]—Mrs. Beth Jarrett

Buck never signed his full name.

Redford served as Best Man at Natalie's wedding to Richard Gregson.

#CancelRobertRedford

She should have learned from Bette to toughen up.

R373, SO WAS MARY TYLER MOORE

Stanwyck toughening Natalie Wood up while wussy RJ looks on.

Number two includes a FIST

You *do* what Missy says, r383!

R383, Missy was telling Nat how RJ preferred to be rimmed.

R365 = RJ Wagner

Natalie on Bette

People saying that Natalie Wood wasn't good in WSS are the same who say that Leigh wasn't good in GWTW. You can't cure stupid. They're invariably ugly fraus/queens, or Rita Moreno. In fact I suspect that the unhinged frau cunt who posts her homophobic slur on this thread (yes, gay men can see when a frau is fug, lady, we still have eyes, we still are men, even though we take your husband's dick) really IS Rita

Why has Rita disparaged Vivian’s performance in GWTW.

R390 because she's a CUNT

I have to congratulate the OP on this sleeper hit of a thread. Opening a thread on about a minor movie in the filmo of a controversial star, and turning it into a SMASH hit is quite a feat. And it has surprisingly long legs too. Well done OP. I take my hat off to you.

R389, there is medication for what ails you

I can't believe Robert Redford wore this horrible rug when he got the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Obama. Is he trying to look like a teenage boy? He's like the 65 year old woman who wears jet black shoulder length hair.

Looks like an Eva Gabor to me, r394.

R393 you said that already and it was not witty the first time. My suggestion is you find yourself a board for women. This is a gay board, and you're not welcome. Bye bitch.

[quote]R363 OH YOU MEAN LIKE STREEP, KEATON, DUVALL, SPACEK? Clearly you weren't around, or you have long term memory loss. The actresses of the 70's were heinous looking. Puke inducing

I think Jacqueline Bisset, Candice Bergen, Cybill Shepherd, Diana Ross, Catherine Deneuve, Jennifer O'Neill, Faye Dunaway, Jane Fonda, Pam Grier, Charlotte Rampling, Katharine Ross, Ali MacGraw, Raquel Welch, Ann.Margret and our dear TUESDAY WELD would all be a bit tacken aback by your assessment.

Even fatass Liz Taylor found some work in the 1970s.

R397 ALL THESE WOMEN EMERGED IN THE 60's. Lillian guish was alive in the 70's, does that make her a 70's actress ?

Lilian Gish was an actor in her 70s during the 70s, she was the quintessential 70s actor!

R399 that's funny, but why do stupid people like R397 bother to post these stupidities? It makes zero contribution, it's just dumb. Why are they even alive ?

Seriously, this is a nice thread, we 're trying to have fun and learn things, and this dumb straight woman chimes in with her homophobic rant , just die please lady, and then this other stupid person (hopefully the same) comes in and posts something moronic like "candice bergen was beautiful and she was active in the 70's". Eat shit please. Just go away. You're useless. Fuck off

Why would anyone insert themselves in a conversation between people who like Natalie Wood and post things like "she was not beautiful, she sucked ass in WSS" ? Just go fuck yourself lady, seriously. We get it, you're ugly as sin and nobody's wanted to fuck you in the past 45 years, so you come on a gay board and take it out on us. Seriously go the fuck away

I don’t want to go back and watch it, but who’s the one who plucked Daisy’s flower?

Odd cover for a reissued 70s mass market paperback edition of the novel.

R396 is obviously not interested in the meds that will help her! GO FUND ME!

Go fund yourself, you stupid cumdump

[quote] Redford served as Best Man at Natalie's wedding to Richard Gregson.

Shhhhh! That doesn’t fit with the imagined Datalounge narrative that Natalie Wood was somehow down & out, inches from Skid Row, desperately begging Robert Redford to call her & give her a crust of a role in his movie, just a crumb of a cameo….anything! ….. and Robert refused her agent’s call. Ghosted! So Natalie remarried Robert Wagner and tried to jump in a boat off Catalina island because she saw Wagner & Walken having sex and the memory of Redford’s denial seared her soul.

Is that Roman Polanski standing in front of Natalie?

Natalie Wood’s daughter named her daughter Clover.

Cruel.

The Gregson marriage was well before Ordinary People and it is no secret Wood wanted and needed that role at that low point in her career. It would have been just the necessary boost and Redford being a shitty talentless actor with a handsome face had an ego the size of Brazil and refused to take her calls. Now she's the best thing since sliced bread. He feels this way decades after her death. Just in time.

Here Redford that POS admits that they were estranged, and also that he was always a POS to her, even before he was famous, and that she made him. He was Gregson's best man TEN years before ORDINARY PEOPLE.

Well, Bob never asked me to play Beth Jarrett, either. And after all the magic we made together in TWWW!

I'd never have played such a pisher part, but it's always nice to be asked.

The clip @ R412 is such a pretentious self serving aggravating piece for Redford, it's everything you need to know about him . "I like to improvise, she didn't have much experience " (just just did that in Rebel and Splendor to name a few, with Ray and Kazan of all people, but never mind, Bob, go on) "I touched her soul" (sure)...and so on and so forth, is all about HIM. Tab Hunter would have knocked this part's socks off, Natalie was thinking with her pussy. Also, I love that the "low point " in her career in the early 80's would be a extreme peak for 99% of actors = winning a best actress GG

Nat and Babs could've played twin sisters

Two beauties

That is a most unfortunate camera angle for Babs at R415. Natalie looks adorable.

Bewitching

R407 doesn't understand the concept of time.

[quote]"I like to improvise, she didn't have much experience "

Redford liked to improvise because he didn't memorize his lines and only read the script before shooting in read throughs. He was such an arrogant asshole that as a director he admits he wouldn't want to work with an actor like that.

I suppose that's better than Ragweed.

Natalie Wood was charming. That’s not a quality Beth Jarrett displays.

Mary Tyler Moore was charming. That’s not a quality Beth Jarrett displays.

Was MTM charming? I didn’t find her so. Maybe as the wife on Dick Van Dyke she was. But Mary Richards was pretty dry, straight laced, and rigid already…. while she could also be warm.

Moore was so charming on DVD she stole the show from Morey and Rose Marie. On MTM she was the very sweet appealing straight woman around which the colorful character actors orbited. I'm not saying she wasn't good in OP but Wood would have had a different take on the role and while she could be a very charming Beth with those friends she socialized with and even acquaintances she could freeze out members her own family with a chilling anger. Beymer never really recovered from her treatment of him on WSS and I know she could have brought that to the role.

So if Natalie W. Would have been SOOOO GREAT as Beth, why do you think Mr. Redford wouldn’t even audition her? Hmmm….?

(Can’t wait to hear this one…)

Redford told Moore he saw her face as Beth's when he read the Judith Guest novel. He was never really interested in anyone else. He wanted Richard Dreyfuss to play the psychiatrist, but Dreyfuss said he couldn't because he was having a nervous breakdown; so Redford asked Sutherland to play the psychiatrist, but he wanted to play Calvin instead.

[quote]R427 Redford told Moore he saw her face as Beth's when he read the Judith Guest novel.

But he still tested Ann-Margret, and Lee Remick came close to getting the role.

The studios were very wary about casting Moore. Redford wasn't.

"And studios turned up their noses at the prospect of Moore in a serious dramatic role. When Redford shopped the movie around, he met with rejection repeatedly.

'There was no interest in the film,' Redford told Entertainment Weekly later. 'I’d gone to a couple of studios and they were not interested. They thought it was decidedly uncommercial. Also, the lead character was a woman who appeared dark and negative – they didn’t want to have anything to do with that. Especially because it was going to be Mary Tyler Moore. No studio wanted it.'"

R426 Because Wood was a has been. Nobody wanted her. She came from a completely different era of Hollywood of the old studio system that was long past. Moore was still a TV star with a fair amount of clout. You didn't need to hear it. If you had the slightest knowledge of Hollywood you would have known it.

[quote] Jessie Matthews which has a scene that comes out of nowhere channeling Metropolis.

R112 That was a hectic time for Jessie Matthews

She had the look and the legs to match Eleanor Powell but her owners refused to let her go to Hollywood. And her owners refused to hire Fred Astaire, who was in London at the time, to star opposite her. So they put her in a series of extravagant dance routines (looking similar to Busby Berkeley's) in smaller and smaller costumes.

This particular musical was all about time travel so I guess it was that precocious homosexual Emlyn Williams who suggested they travel backward and forward from scenes of operetta, polka. Charleston, street urchins and robot-women.

Remember Redford was a first time director. He wanted to hire actors based on what they "looked like" they could play or if they looked like the character as he saw it in his mind. There was a Jewish shrink role, well Richard Dreyfuss is Jewish, how about him? It's narrow and shallow thinking. This is not the way experienced directors plan movies.

True, Natalie was a "has been" from another era. But Mary was a TV star whose attempts at another series after MTM failed miserably. Plus neither of them were great actresses...working with a first time director. One could make a case against or for either of them. Ordinary People came out very well in the end. However, it did not deserve to win the Oscars it did - a big topic of conversation at the time.

MTM received critical praise for her performance in "First You Cry", the 1978 television movie based on Betty Rollins' book about her battle with cancer.

I'm sure Redford saw it and was assured she could handle a dramatic role.

A clip from "First You Cry" . . .

[quote]R432 Remember Redford was a first time director. He wanted to hire actors based on what they "looked like" they could play or if they looked like the character as he saw it in his mind… It's narrow and shallow thinking. [bold]This is not the way experienced directors plan movies.[/bold]

And yet as discussed upthread, it’s exactly how Roman Polanski works. His offscreen choices aside, Polanski is amongst cinema’s most accomplished directors.

I haven't seen First, You Cry since it originally aired, but I still remember Mary's reaction shot when she first opens her robe to look at the results of the mastectomy.

I'll bet it reminded you of your first reaction upon seeing a pussy.

True, R435. Donald Trump works the same way - he wanted John Bolton to lose the mustache because he didn't look right for the job with it.

R438, Frankly, John Bolton looks ridiculous on television with that overgrown, bushy moustache.

Look how quickly David Axelrod shaved off his signature cookie duster after Obama was elected and he became a cable news commentator.

Well, that's because Axelrod looked like Captain Kangaroo.