Babs in Funny Girl

Julie Andrews was unknown to the international movie audience and the film was so expensive it needed to be a hit everywhere. Audrey Hepburn was an international star. Walt Disney was the star of his films so he wasn't as concerned.

Channing did not get to recreate her role because Hello Dolly is not kabuki in Todd AO.

Because even though Shirley MacLaine was being considered, ultimately no one could do it like Babs. And they haven't been able to remount the musical since, for the same reason. Babs' stamp was indelible.

The thing is before the movie the play was still a hit without Babs. It was a strong enough property just because of the great score.

It was Babs who could actually sing the score. It wasn't a hit without her. It was a hit because of her.

Julie was lacking in that certain star quality for the big screen, that was needed for an expensive property like "My Fair Lady". She lacked sex appeal and came across as more prim and proper, like a school teacher.

She could sing the role and knock it out of the park and on-stage, easily delivered the goods. However, in a close-up, for instance attending the Embassy Ball, she was rather average.

"She lacked sex appeal and came across as more prim and proper, like a school teacher."

I doubt she did on the stage, where she played the role for years.

It's Barbra's best role.

R4 it continued as a hit without her.

[quote]Julie was lacking in that certain star quality for the big screen, that was needed for an expensive property like "My Fair Lady".

The movie is an overblown mess.

R8, it started as a hit with her. And was a hit movie because of her.

r6 As I noted above: "She could sing the role and knock it out of the park and on-stage, easily delivered the goods."

It was the same situation with "Camelot". On stage she was very, very good. However, she lacked sex appeal and in film close-ups, the role required someone more sensual and earthy who could almost bring down a kingdom. It would not have worked.

Julie, for all her talent, does not have sex appeal. She and Newman in "Torn Curtain" didn't spark at all. She and Omar in "The Tamarind Seed" were embarrassing. She and James Fox in "Modern Millie" seemed like a nice brother and sister.

Even in what I consider her finest film ("Victor Victoria") and a performance for which she should have won an Oscar, she and James Garner don't sizzle. She has much more chemistry with Robert Preston.

My Fair Lady is an uneven film but still a magnificent beauty. Gorgeously filmed and designed its high points sustain it.

Barbra didn’t jump from stage to screen in FG. In between she became a recording artist and made a lot of tv appearances. Plus she was constantly in the press because people were fascinated by her. The screen version of Funny Girl was a natural next step.

"The thing is before the movie the play was still a hit without Babs. It was a strong enough property just because of the great score."

Mimi extended the run, but no one followed her, r3. It was no longer as big of a hit as it was with Barbra. Look how many Dollys there were during its run. Barbra made the property seem stronger than it was.

I disagree, r11. I'd argue that she and Garner had plenty of chemistry (Americanization of Emily). Imagine Darling Lili with him instead of Rock.

No one said otherwise, R13.

Imagine Darling Lili with a better director not trying to exploit the star but utilize her greatest assets.

She was a recording artist and did TV appearances before Funny Girl, r13.

Duh. She also appeared on Broadway in I Can Get It For You Wholesale, and got a Tony nomination.

Didn't she have an affair with Omar during the filming? I think he was completely wrong in this film (and in Doctor Zhivago). He couldn't act and his accent was too strong. He was OK in Lawrence of Arabia. In Doctor Zhivago he didn't look either Russian or Tatar he looked Egyptian. He stood out throughout the film and ruined it for me.

Yes, I believe she did have an affair with Sharif--and with Sydney Chaplin when they both did FG on Broadway.

She also had an affair with Ryan. Did you secretly have one with Redford, I think she had been warmed off by his wife, but I can't imagine she could stop herself.

Barbra was kind of a skank, no offense.

I want to see Babs as Baby Snooks.

Julie gave it back to Jack Warner in a very public way. The reactiom in the audience shows how unusal it was.

Barbra also had a one nighter with George Segal while they were filming "The Owl and the Pussycat", slept with Yves Montand and hit on Michael Crawford during the making of "Dolly" only to be rejected because he was more interested in a male's member of the cast.

Audrey was so elegant beautiful but I wish Julie would have got the part, it was perfect for her.

Why, R23--because she got some grade-A dick? As if YOU would turn it down! LMFAO!

As for R26, I never heard all that.

[quote]She lacked sex appeal and came across as more prim and proper, like a school teacher.

The same could be said of Wendy Hiller, but most everyone always goes on about how she was the ideal 'Eliza Doolittle.'

I like Barbra enough, but Funny Girl is pretty painful.

It's just a lousy show, imo.

[quote]It's just a lousy show, imo.

The book is lousy, but the score is great.

After "Funny Girl", Babs wasn't just any other actress, she was a huge Oscar winning star.

As I remember it, the only other actress seriously considered for the role of Dolly was Elizabeth Taylor.

Harrison was attractive early on his career, but by the time he made the movie his Higgins was completely lacking sex appeal, unlike Leslie Howard in "Pygmalion".

From imdb: "Elizabeth Taylor was considered for the role of Dolly, but she couldn't sing. Doris Day, Debbie Reynolds, Carol Burnett, and Shirley MacLaine (who played Irene Molloy in the The Matchmaker (1958)) were all briefly considered. Despite her Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actress in Thoroughly Modern Millie (1967), Carol Channing was never considered for the role because it was felt that she could not carry a film of this stature. Channing's co-star, Julie Andrews, turned down the role of Dolly."

I know everyone says the Funny Girl book is terrible, but the movie script isn't bad. Were there many changes from Bway?

When did Hollywood realize that Barbra pretty much plays the same role for every movie? Her schtick is fun but repetitive

I still get goosebumps watching her sing My Man at the end. I remember seeing it in the theater and how powerful her performance was - it was like she walked off the screen onto the stage. In those days you couldn't watch a movie over and over again in the theater. You only got to see it once or twice (if you were lucky). In those days you would listen to the soundtrack on record over and over again after seeing the film. I also remember seeing Funny Girl again years later at the Castro Theater - what an experience that was! Now I can watch it in 4K high definition with awesome sound anytime I want....

[quote]Harrison was attractive early on his career, but by the time he made the movie his Higgins was completely lacking sex appeal,

In the MFL movie he comes off rather queeny. My father, who stopped and watched a bit as he was walking through the living room, thought he was supposed to be gay.

R38, he's not gay; He's British!

During "Dolly" Gene Kelly was grooming Michael Crawford to be the next Gene Kelly. They planned to work together on a big budget screen version of "Tom Swift" but it fell through.

Michael Crawford.... gay? But, he's married.

Crawford was too gaggly to be a leading man

[quote]In the MFL movie he comes off rather queeny.

Not as queeny as he does in this movie.

r41 He was bi. Joyce Haber alluded to his sexuality in her column during the film's making, on a regular basis.

Yea, Crawford always looked like a cocksucker to me.

R43 LOL! That's an actual movie poster and tagline?

r46 Staircase is a 1969 film adaptation of a two-character play, also called Staircase, by Charles Dyer.

The film, like the play, is about an ageing gay couple who own a barber shop in the East End of London. They discuss their loving but often volatile past together and ponder their possible future without each other, as Charles is about to go on trial for dressing as a woman in public.

The two main characters are named Charles Dyer (the name of the playwright/screenwriter) and Harry C. Leeds, which is an anagram of his name.

[quote]When did Hollywood realize that Barbra pretty much plays the same role for every movie? Her schtick is fun but repetitive

That was not a negative thing during the era of genuine movie stars.

'The film itself is rotten, but so was the Broadway show. The songs are mediocre, the book worse. William Wyler has done his creakiest work here. The whole feeble enterprise needs to be carried and Miss Streisand is well able to carry it -Stanley Kauffmann (November 9, 1968)

Could never make it through this film though I tried twice and Streisand was very good. It was a box office smash and an undeserving (IMHO) Best Picture nominee. The part calls for a homely girl which is why Streisand an unknown was cast in the Broadway lead where she was the toast of the town and she appeared in several successful television specials so she was well-known by the time the film version was made. I prefer Hello Dolly!

I can understand not using Channing in DOLLY, but to not cast Merman in GYPSY was a travesty.

For those who think her charms don't translate well to film, check out CALL ME MADAM. She's wonderful

R25 Julie looked beautiful in that clip. She and Princess Diana have a very similar charm. Jack Warner must have been fuming.

r50 I couldn't agree more. The first stage musical I saw as a grade school child was "Gypsy" with Ethel, when it came to Boston on tour. It was my Christmas gift from my parents and they told me in advance, "You are going to witness something legendary that will stay with you forever..." And it did.

To not have captured that true magic on the screen is one of the biggest errors in the history of sound films.

OP: Others, although not everyone, can play the roles of Eliza Doolittle and Dolly Levi, but no one can play Fanny Brice but Barbra.

Streisand forever made her mark on Broadway and in film with an outstanding performance in Funny Girl. She was perfect for the part in every way. Both productions were superb as was she.

[quote]'The film itself is rotten, but so was the Broadway show. The songs are mediocre, the book worse. William Wyler has done his creakiest work here. The whole feeble enterprise needs to be carried and Miss Streisand is well able to carry it -Stanley Kauffmann (November 9, 1968)

By the late 1960s there was a lot of snobbery among critics over popular entertainment for the masses especially musicals like Dolly.

Danny Lockin who played little Barnaby was tragically murdered during a gay hook-up in 1977 when he was only 34. He was a remarkable dancer who had been in Gypsy and West Side Story on Broadway. His killer - who stabbed him more than 100 times - only got four years in prison.

[quote]Gorgeously filmed and designed its high points sustain it.

That's part of the problem with MFL. Too many gauzy shots, too much lingering on Audrey Hepburn's face (which is gorgeous), flowers, flowers, flowers. Cukor at his worst.

[quote]flowers, flowers, flowers.

LOL! I've always thought that the overture/opening credits were rather unimaginative. It's also weird how the credits start in the middle of the overture.

r57 That decision was made by Andre Previn for whatever reason.

One reason why Streisand got to make the movie of Funny Girl is because Ray Stark (the producer of the Broadway show and the movie...and also Fanny Brice's son-in-law) recognized that Babs was a major talent. He made it a condition that she sign a five-picture deal with him if she wanted to be in the movie of Funny Girl. Babs was too nervous to lose the role, so she told her manager to accept the deal. She groused about it for decades after that, although two of her other movies with Stark were arguably among her best: The Way We Were and The Owl and the Pussycat. Not so much For Pete's Sake and Funny Lady, though. Although Funny Lady has its moments, and Michael Sarrazin is cute playing her husband in For Pete's Sake. I haven't seen the latter in decades. I wonder if it's as bad as I remember.

R59 It's terrible, like a bad 70s TV show. I saw it for the first time not long ago, and could't believe it.

In my opinion, the biggest sin in movie musical miscasting was not letting Ethel Merman star in the movie of Gypsy. It was written for her voice, and she did (sort of) curb her tendency to play to the second balcony in the movie of Call Me Madam. With a good director (which the movie of Gypsy decidedly did not have), Merman could have been great. Lesser movie miscasting sins: not casting Angela Lansbury in Mame, Carol Channing in Hello, Dolly! and Julie Andrews in My Fair Lady.

and Doris Day in "South Pacific" although she did not originate the role on the stage.

She was okay.

Barnaby.

[quote]In my opinion, the biggest sin in movie musical miscasting was not letting Ethel Merman star in the movie of Gypsy.

Except she looked like Ernest Borgnine in drag.

The opening credits of My Fair Lady is one of the best. Up there with North by Northwest and Days of Heaven. Glorious. Gorgeous Beaton photos making one bloom after the other with Previn's wonderful conducting. And they start in the middle because Previn wanted to use the entire overture. So the first half is used as a prelude. Beautifully done.

Any footage out there of Babs as Snooks?

That episode of "The Gong Show" at R64 was taped on Danny Lockin's last day alive. After taping the episode, Lockin stopped at a gay bar and ended up going home with the man who murdered him.

Babs put out for producer Ray Stark, who also had been Brice's son-in-law. KINKY. Both Brice and Babs famously liked to control things with a reverse cowgirl, plus that way the man on bottom didn't have to look at their faces.

For "My Fair Lady," Jack Warner had no interest in Andrews and found Hepburn too brittle looking. Plus his wife was keeping a stricter eye on him by then. But Audrey located a little English muscle boy who resembled her in the face, dressed him in Cockney-gamine fashion, and dropped him off at Cukor's front door. The "reveal" delighted Cukor so much that he insisted Hepburn was the only choice for the role. She kept him in supply for the duration of filming. Cukor was a blow jobber and had a preference for quick shooters because by then his obesity left his neck and back hurting, and as everyone knows the British cum in about 30 seconds (or not at all).

The only actresses who got leading roles in such productions after the studios collapsed were the ones who put out and who the producers and top-men WANTED to have put out. That's why Channing, Merman, Martin and other theatre ladies never really got there. And why people like Marilyn did. The exception was Disney, who never fucked his help but was turned on by Andrews' coldness, aloofness, unsexiness and faintly lesbian scent. He didn't fuck but he liked B&D fantasy.

Glad to help.

OP, you had to be there. Streisand was a mega star in the 1960s - stage, records, TV - all at once. She was one of the biggest of all time IN HER 20s, the best time of her career imho. You simply cannot compare Streisand getting the Funny Girl movie to Julie Andrews not getting the My Fair Lady movie. I copied this from another thread to explain to those who don't understand:

"In the 1960s (Streisand) sang like no one else, she talked like no one else, she looked like no one else. Singers wanted to sing in her style; pages and pages were written about her style (singing and personality), critics fell over themselves with over-praise of her talents. The only way I can describe it to you youngsters is that Streisand was a BIG thing, yes, just like the Beatles were a big thing beyond the music. She broke all the rules and created her own. It was a breath of much needed fresh air in show business and adult pop music. Dionne Warwick and the like were not on the same planet. This changed rapidly when Streisand moved on and made her movie debut, but you get the picture. It was pretty incredible."

I haven't been a Streisand fan for forty years, but the above was the 1960s. She got her movie role.

[quote] Julie was lacking in that certain star quality for the big screen, that was needed for an expensive property like "My Fair Lady". She lacked sex appeal and came across as more prim and proper, like a school teacher.

I don't think Audrey Hepburn was exactly swimming in sex appeal.

[quote]She also had an affair with Ryan. Did you secretly have one with Redford, I think she had been warmed off by his wife, but I can't imagine she could stop herself.

Ha, ha, Redford, NO. Not that Streisand didn't try. And for all the "I loved working with her/him" crap today, they didn't particularly get along during the filming of The Way We Were. At the time, Redford would not rehearse, insisting that rehearsals kill the spontaneity. Streisand was a rehearsal nut. Redford had the same rehearsal issues acting with Paul Newman, Dustin Hoffman and others. In this case, it was producer Ray Stark and writer Arthur Laurents (Streisand's team) vs director Sydney Pollack (Redford's). Redford's won, and it was Pollack who cut the political stuff off the ending. Ten-fifteen minutes cut, which explained why the two really broke up. They could have re-shot a three minute scene that explained it, but no...

Ryan O'Neal, right off Love Story, GOT the role in What's up Doc because he was dating Streisand. It wasn't a "co-stars having an affair" thing because it happened before the movie started. She was one of a few girlfriends Ryan had at the time.

Correct, R71. But even Audrey Hepburn had more sex appeal than Julie Andrews. And Audrey was a movie star, Julie had never been tested on the big screen.

Did her My Fair Lady character really have to be sexy?

The problem with Babs in Funny Girl isn’t particularly ugly. The whole premise of the show is she did everything because she was ugly.

R75, several of the self-deprecating ugly lines were created for the film and were not in the stage show. That's because Hollywood was scared shitless that Streisand's ethnicity would turn people off, especially since she was not apologetic about it.

Funny Girl is about the emergence of Barbra Streisand. There’s a reason it hasn’t been revived. And Barbra never even tried to do an impression of Fanny Brice.

[quote]"In the 1960s (Streisand) sang like no one else, she talked like no one else, she looked like no one else. Singers wanted to sing in her style; pages and pages were written about her style (singing and personality), critics fell over themselves with over-praise of her talents. The only way I can describe it to you youngsters is that Streisand was a BIG thing, yes, just like the Beatles were a big thing beyond the music. She broke all the rules and created her own. It was a breath of much needed fresh air in show business and adult pop music. Dionne Warwick and the like were not on the same planet. This changed rapidly when Streisand moved on and made her movie debut, but you get the picture. It was pretty incredible."

All true. Whoever wrote that got it right.

You really can't quite understand the impact of Barbra or the Beatles if you weren't there.

[quote] Funny Girl is about the emergence of Barbra Streisand.

Not when it was written, since they wanted Carol Burnett for the role originally, and cast Streisand only when Burnett turned them down.

Without a real musical star, and I don't mean Carol Burnett, an accurate musical about Fanny Brice wouldn't have lasted a month on Broadway. That it turned into a vehicle to launch a star like Streisand is what made it what it was.

[quote]You really can't quite understand the impact of Barbra or the Beatles if you weren't there.

That's usually true. But The Beatles died in 1970, and have been marketed to death since that time - re-releases of the music, never released music, re-mixed music, books, movies, documentaries. We didn't get to see the Beatles age into an oldies group, or into a pathetic bunch of elders who could barely play anymore.

On the other hand, Miss Streisand goes on forever. If she had died tragically in the early 1970s, she's be much more of a respected vocalist and movie actress today because only her good work would exist, only her cute 20s Barbra looks would be seen.

[quote]We didn't get to see the Beatles age into an oldies group, or into a pathetic bunch of elders who could barely play anymore.

McCartney and Ringo Starr are still alive and pushing 80.

R81, McCartney and Ringo Starr are not THE BEATLES.

R59 Nevertheless, FUNNY LADY was a huge hit (#7 of 1975). I'm sure Babs was happy about that.

[quote]Any footage out there of Babs as Snooks?

For a nanosecond in Funny Lady.

For Pete's Sake is really bad, but I watch it again once a year to see Streisand in it. I believe she was a bitch to Estelle Parsons who complained about it.

I saw Estelle Parsons on Midday Live in the mid-1970s, there with a film clip to actually publicize For Pete's Sake. The host was that redhead female feature reporter who was all over local New York TV at the time, can't remember her name.

Reporter keep pushing Estelle to trash Streisand. Says reporter, "but she keeps trying to be a real actress..." Estelle says, "if you're trying to be an actress, you don't only perform in roles that are molded to fit you. But that's okay too." I didn't get the impression there were problems between her and Babs. That Estelle Parsons agreed to appear in such dreck for a paycheck - she deserved whatever she got.

R79, Hadn't Carol just screwed the producers of Fade Out, Fade In by leaving the show with a questionable injury that resulted in a lawsuit?

I just remembered the reporter - Judy Licht. Her "trying to be an actress" comment was about The Way We Were which was out the previous year.

Lainie Kazan earned raves the night she subbed for Barbra. Barbra of course, had her fired the day after. The competition was apparently too much and if of course obliterated the myth that only Streisand could pull it off.

And then of course there was the Anne Francis debacle. Funny Girl was much more of an ensemble piece before the movie cut pretty much everyone else except Shariff and Streisand out.

Barbra also reportedly despised Madeline Kahn for upstaging her in What's Up Doc?

[quote]And Barbra never even tried to do an impression of Fanny Brice.

Which would be what exactly? A Jewish comedian/singer?

Putz.

I saw a sneak preview, r84, and that sequence was longer.

r89 = Lainie

Fanny & the Follies girls...

R89, even though Barbra was extremely threatened, Lainie Kazan was not fired. She had other offers, she left on her own. With regard to everything else - Babs is an unsecure freak, but she never wanted to fire either Anne Francis or Madelyn Kahn. Streisand hated Whats up doc regardless of who was in it.

[quote] You can't argue with making money!

Donald Trump

[R74] Good point. It’s not like Enry Iggins came off as a pussy hound.

R77 She kind of did in funny lady

Thanks for posting that , R92, I'd never seen any example of Lainie's portrayal. She was very good, but no Barbra. Babs just had a quality to her voice, something fresh and modern, almost pop. It wasn't a typical-sounding Broadway voice with a certain kind of trained vibrato; I still don't think anyone really has come close to that. Elaine Paige in Evita, maybe. For me anyway.

I agree R98. And who knew there was a time when she was a soprano and didn't weigh 300 lbs?

Just for fun, here's Heather Headley in her high school production of "Funny Girl." Why not? She sounds great.

Ex-CUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!

FUNNY GIRL 1965

If the ending of TWWW had been left as Laurents wanted it it would have made Redford's character deeply unsympathetic negating all the romance that had gone on before. Eliminating it was a smart move dramatically and financially. Who wants a shit as a romantic hero? Would anybody really have wanted to see it again and again? Audiences were smart enough to know that in the long run their characters were incompatible and that was enough for them to part. You've got to be completely unfamiliar with American romantic films not to see it.

R101 that is atrocious

I remember reading about a proposed sequel where Katie and Hubbell get back together to deal with their daughter being a hippie in trouble or something. Who could have played that daughter I wonder.

Every time I watch Funny Girl, I am struck by how truly lovely Barbara is. She’s photographed so beautifully, in such warm colors, and she moves so well.

Babs closing night Funny Girl

I prefer Funny Lady. I like the tougher, grown up Fanny better. And I love the score. They were close to casting Robert Blake as Billy Rose and that would have made the movie even better.

Why did the composers write My Man and replace the Music that Makes Me Dance?

I’ll admit the prior is a more powerful song but wasn’t the latter a hit too?

R107, I’m so confused. That’s My Man. I thought that was only in the movie

She delivered a little speech after taking her bows and then sang My Man as a tribute to Fanny Brice, R110.

The audio of her speech, her singing My Man and the rest of the cast serenading her with Auld Lang Syne is available as a track on Babs' Just For The Record box set.

I find the My Fair Lady film too stagey and interminably dull. Hepburn may have looked more aristocratic than Andrews but her gaunt face also makes her look too old, especially in the scene at the Embassy ball. It made me wonder why a haggard flower seller approaching middle age would want to reinvent herself? The role needs someone young-looking to pull off the naivete.

R101, so much jealousy in show business.

[Quote] She delivered a little speech after taking her bows and then sang My Man as a tribute to Fanny Brice

Did she sing My Man because she already knew the new movie song?

[Quote] The role needs someone young-looking to pull off the naivete.

And, apparently, according to DL, sexy and alluring

No, R114. Fanny Brice used to sing My Man and it was one of her signature songs. When the Broadway show was being planned Ray Stark wanted to use My Man as the show closer but Bob Merrill and Jule Styne put their foot down and insisted on having only the songs they had written. Their "replacement" for My Man was The Music That Makes Me Dance, which was a beautiful song in its own right.

Streisand sang the song after her final Broadway performance as a tribute to Brice. If you watch her first TV special "My Name is Barbra", filmed during the time when she was still playing the role on stage, the final segment was a concert performance of songs from Funny Girl. Streisand sang The Music That Makes Me Dance, then said something like, "Fanny Brice used to sing a song like that and it made her the toast of Broadway", before launching into a rendition of My Man.

R116, thanks for the explanation!

Had no idea My Man wasn’t written by Styne-Merrill.

Just read up on it—Second Hand Rose and I’d Rather Be Blue were also sung by Fanny Brice and not composed by Styne-Merrill

Bette Davis gushes over Streisand's performance in Funny Girl at 23:00 . . .

The ending of the movie, although a great cinematic experience and probably the scene that earned Streisand her Oscar, is a lame cop out compared to the show. The show ends on a defiant note with Fanny reprising Don't Rain On My Parade and gives her character a bit of an edge. The movie casts her as an eternal co-dependent victim by ending with My Man.

Was it anything to do with Carol being a person of color?

R112 exactly. In PYGMALION, Shaw, describes her age to be "between eighteen or twenty but hardly older." Andrews (b. October 1935) was 20 when the show premiered on Broadway in March 1956.

But Andrews was 29 when the movie premiered, barely six years younger than Hepburn. If MFL needs a 20-year-old actress (which is debatable), they should have cast someone born circa 1944: Jacqueline Bissett, Geraldine Chaplin, Catherine Schell.

The fact is that talent matters more than age, and that is why Julie Andrews should have played Eliza in the film.

Rex Harrison was the biggest queen who ever queened in film "Staircase".

Strange mothers/sons casting in STAIRCASE: Rex Harrison and Beatrix Lehmann were only 5 years apart in age; Richard Burton and Cathleen Nesbitt were 37 years apart.

Switching to lip-synching a few bars into My Man at the end of Funny Girl was one of the stupidest directorial decision ever. Did Wyler never see any of her live TV shows in which she is absolutely electric every time she sings live?

What was Madame Streisand's problem with Anne Francis?

My man was not written for Funny Girl. It was a french song written decades earlier, the lyrics were rewritten in english and became a standard for Brice. Bizarrely in the film The Great Ziegfeld Brice only sings the intro I believe.

They put it at the end because it is a socko ending unlike The Music That Makes Me Dance though it is a wonderful song as well. Remember at the end of the stage show Streisand reprised Don't Rain on My Parade to leave audiences with a sense of excitement. Also audiences when the film opened were thrilled with Y Man. A frisson would go through the audiences as recorded by Andrew Sarris when he saw it. Also I read Barbara fanatics who could not afford to see it or see it again at roadshow prices would stand by the open doors of the Criterion theater in Times Square which were opened by the ushers for the exiting audience so they could listen to it. Yes I agree it is strange. I guess they couldn't afford the soundtrack album which was really expensive in those days. I guess also a communal experience for Bab's fans.

My Man!!! I have no idea what Y Man is.

Mon Homme (My Man) indeed was a French song and hit for Mistinguett. But it gained wider audience and fame with English translation sung by Fanny Brice. Billie Holiday did a jazz cover of "My Man" which was inducted into Grammy Hall of Fame. It would take Edith Piaf in 1940 to bring things back on home sung in original French.

Mistinguett - Mon homme - Chanson française

[quote]If the ending of TWWW had been left as Laurents wanted it it would have made Redford's character deeply unsympathetic negating all the romance that had gone on before.

Redford's character is already unsympathetic. Among his other failings, he wants to end the marriage after cheating on her, then he's leaving presumably because of the affair. She was pregnant in both scenes, that's as shitty as it gets. As in many Streisand movies: man treats her badly, then she cries or sings a torch song as he leaves. I guess people like this type of shit, I prefer a story that's more complex and makes more sense. And Laurents' ending was the original ending, the ending in his novel, not some lamebrained writer idea.

R105, although he denies it now, it was REDFORD who was interested in a sequel to TWWW. He had contacted Arthur Laurents about it but didn't follow through. What the story was going to be has been speculated, not revealed. If it happened and Streisand wanted control, all Redford would have to do is tell her he's going ahead without her, then she'd have agreed to do it.

Funny Girl is a lonnnnng movie. Did it really need scenes between Streisand and Francis to make it even longer. Obviously not.

[quote]I guess they couldn't afford the soundtrack album which was really expensive in those days

Wrong. Soundtrack albums, ALL albums could be purchased at Korvette's for $4.50 or less in the late 1960s. For a buck or two more, you could get it at Sam Goody or Liberty. Record albums were not really expensive. A few years earlier when labels released mono versions, you could buy those albums for $3.00 - 3.50. I bought all my Beatles LPs in mono because of the lower prices since I was ten years old with limited cash.

Mono = Monaural.

Francis said the scene Medford has with Streisand when she tells her Nicky is deeply in debt was supposed to her big scene in the film. She was hoping for a last chance Oscar nom. But she said it was her agent that made the fuss about her scenes being cut. It was not her. She even wrote a heartfelt letter eventually to Streisand explaining the situation and I guess hoping there were no hard feelings. She also wanted to let her know that she found Prince of Tides a very fine film.

R131 Then why do you think that scene was cut? It was against Laurents wishes but both Pollack and Redford wanted it cut. It had to have been that it made the character even more unsympathetic no?

R135, it was cut because the film was too long and test preview audiences groaned at the political scenes. Pollack cut the scenes with scissors at the theater (his story), Redford had nothing to do with it. I saw Pollack outside the Baronet movie theater on Third Ave counting the heads that came out of Bobby Deerfield in 1977. It had already been officially released, but if he was an impromptu scene cutter, HALF of that lousy movie should have been scissored.

[quote][R112] exactly. In PYGMALION, Shaw, describes her age to be "between eighteen or twenty but hardly older." Andrews (b. October 1935) was 20 when the show premiered on Broadway in March 1956.

And yet Shaw wrote the part for his friend Mrs. Patrick Campbell, who created the part in the original production of Pygmalion. She was 49 at the time.

[quote] Wrong. Soundtrack albums, ALL albums could be purchased at Korvette's for $4.50 or less in the late 1960s. For a buck or two more, you could get it at Sam Goody or Liberty. Record albums were not really expensive.

$4.50 in 1968 is $34 adjusted for inflation. Not incredibly expensive, but enough to keep some people from buying, for sure.

I'll Oh dear myself for 'Bab's fans'

Perhaps that's why high units sold were measured as GOLD albums, R138. That's 500,000 copies sold. Also- there were many more albums out in the 1960s. Artists recorded and released at least two a year. Streisand had three out in 1964 - The Third Album, Funny Girl and People.

I remember the Broadway cast album was one of those thick albums you opened up to see all the (black and white) pictures inside. Those always seem to cost more.

R141, No, that would be double albums - two records. Funny Girl was one record though it opened up. Her 1974 album Butterfly was like that too, one record but opened up with pictures inside.

R142 And oh those Butterfly pictures!

No, r142, that would be a single record in a gate-fold jacket.

And remember roadshow ticket prices for Funny Girl were pretty expensive at the Criterion. I mean an average ticket price was $4.50 which could go up to $6.00 for a loge seat on a Saturday night. That would be $44 for a movie ticket today. I never got the appeal of the loge. It was too far from the screen. But it was considered exclusive. This was also a time when 50 cents would have an affect on your decision on which part of the movie theater you would sit.

Even if it only contained one disc, those gatefold albums did tend to cost a bit more. It’s only logical, more cardboard, higher production cost.

"... those gatefold albums did tend to cost a bit more"

Not if they ended up in the cut-out bin, r146!

....

I started buying cast albums in the early sixties. The fold out albums did not cost more. But stereo records always cost a dollar more than mono.

I had the Star! album, loved it. When I eventually saw the movie it was such a letdown.

Oh dearing myself @r444

r151 I believe you're due another "oh, dear" for referring to a non-existent post.

[quote]They were close to casting Robert Blake as Billy Rose and that would have made the movie even better.

He would have KILLED in that part!

[quote]Barbra was kind of a skank, no offense.

WAS?

[quote]The exception was Disney, who never fucked his help

Not true.

Funny Girl was the no 1 movie that year

I know this is a stupid question but did Fanny and Arnstein get together again at the end?

I thought no, but then she sings My Man, which makes me think yes

Anyone seen Funny Lady? is it worth it?

She was under contract!!!

R152 - For some reason, a post I made on another thread showed up in this thread I my computer. So, I "oh deared" myself thinking I posted in the wrong thread. And then magically, the post disappeared from this thread and was correctly posted in the other.

Funny Girl had...a look.

Oh dear!

R162 Arlene is so over-the-top in that narration with her 1930s Park Avenue accent, it is wonderful.

Just to be clear (I thought I knew everything about Streisand, but I guess not):

Did "Funny Girl" on Broadway end with "His Is The Only Music That Makes Me Dance," and "Funny Girl," the movie, end with "My Man?"

I didn't know that part of My Man was dubbed. I had read somewhere that is was live and a single take.

The problem with Funny Girl is the book. They even updated it a bit for that recent London production and it was still a dud. Brilliant, beautiful score, but the story isn't very exciting and sort of peaks in act 1. It's similar to Mame in that regard. The real reason these shows haven't been revived like The Music Man or Gypsy is because they're just not as strong in terms of story. They're shows where you just twiddle your thumbs until the next musical number.

"My Man" in the film is live until the band really kicks into high gear with "oh, my man I love him so. He'll never know."

I believe it ends with a Rain/Parade reprise, r165.

Barbra and director William Wyler fought constantly filming Funny Girl. She would not take his direction, demandwd changes to the script, camera angles and lighting, etc. Remember that this was her first film but he had been considered one of the top and most honored directors in Hollywood for well over 30 years.

When asked about it later, Wyler said "You'll have to excuse Barbra. This was the first film she ever tried direct."

Babs knew "My Man" was going to be a big number so she does everything but bump and grind as the tempo gains speed and volume increases.

Does anyone else know the 1939 Fox film Rose of Washington Square, starring Alice Faye? The song Rose of W.ashington Square was one of Brice's signature tunes. It's one of my favorite Alice Faye films and I love me some Alice Faye.

Read this plot summary from Wikipedia carefully:

[quote]Ted Cotter (Al Jolson), a successful Broadway minstrel performer, spots Rose Sargent (Alice Faye) performing in a vaudeville amateur night. He immediately takes a personal and professional interest in her, helping her career along as she joins the famed Ziegfeld Follies and begins to achieve stardom.

[quote]Rose does not recognize Ted's love for her, falling instead for Bart Clinton (Tyrone Power), a gambler and con man. Bart's nefarious activities get him arrested, and after Ted puts up his bail, Bart skips town. Rose pines away for him, until one night, when Bart goes to the Follies and hears her tearful rendition of the song "My Man", he realizes the error of his ways and sets out to make things right. As Bart is sent away for a 5-year prison sentence, Rose says "I'll be waiting, darling!"

After the film was released, Brice sued Fox for $750,000, for obvious reasons. Fox settled with her out of court.

^ Sorry, try this link:

Ooooo, William Frawley is in it. I loves me some Uncle Charlie.

Was William Frawley gay? Did he ever marry? I think he lived with his sister. He loved boxing.

I think Frawley lived with his mother until she died. No one has produced any proof he was gay, like old arrest records or a contemporary's memoir that tells tales out of school, but many people think the stress of being closeted may have fueled his alcoholism.

Bill Frawley was married once, it ended in divorce after several years.

The man had a reputation as a hard drinker, cantankerous and difficult. William Frawley was fired from a show after punching out Clifton Webb!

IIRC stories correctly both Lucy and Desi had reservations about casting Mr. Frawley as "Fred Mertz", the latter (again IIRC) sat WF down and made it clear if he caused trouble he would be out.

Arnstein dumps Fanny in her dressing room right before her performance in the Ziegfeld Follies. It's an inconsiderate shitty thing to do but it allows her to go on stage where she weeps and carries on but as another poster put it she refrains from bumps and grinds.

In the Mad Magazine parody of Funny Girl, they had the conversation between Fanny and Nick go something like this:

Fanny "I won't let you go!."

Nick "Even though I've gambled away our house, our child?"

Fanny "I still won't let you go!"

Nick "Even though I coughed during your performance last night?"

Fanny "I'll pack your bags."

Of course Funny Girl had very little to do with the real Fanny Brice story. Her mother owned a chain of bars and Fanny had been very well educated and her family was very well off. There are so many errors - Snooks didn't appear to long after this (in the 40's?) and Fanny had been married before Arnstein.

[quote]I didn't know that part of My Man was dubbed. I had read somewhere that is was live and a single take.

That info comes from Streisand herself. For years, for decades, she described My Man as being sung live - her suggestion to Wyler. Streisand LIED about it, but I could always tell that the beginning part was sung live, the big second part was lifted off her 1965 recording from My Name is Barbra Two. A wise idea imho, but lying was unnecessary.

R157, where did you get that info? Funny Girl was in limited release in the fall of 1968, and didn't go wide for at least a year. It was more popular than Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and numerous others? Don't count on it.

R159, I would advise against it. I couldn't believe how bad it was in 1975, and thirty years later it was worse.

R179, why do you keep insisting Funny Girl should be an accurate biography of Fanny Brice? It's a musical BASED on Fanny Brice. The general public was much more interested in seeing Barbra Streisand than Fanny Brice.

[quote]Ooooo, William Frawley is in it. I loves me some Uncle Charlie.

William Frawley was Bub, the three sons' grandfather. William Demarest played his brother, Uncle Charlie, Bub's replacement when Frawley left the show.

Funny Girl was 1968 and Butch/Sundance was '69, r180.

Darling, R183, hit movies were in theaters for 6 months to a year or more in 1968 and 1969, especially the two mentioned. Funny Girl and Butch Cassidy were in theaters at the SAME TIME.

The "My Man" ending is also dishonest in a way because only the part she sang live was a fresh take for the film. From the point where the lipsynching portion begins they reused an old version already released on the "My Name Is Barbra" album in 1965. If they had to use "My Man" for the film would it have killed her to record a completely new version for the film soundtrack?

Maybe Barbra just loved that particular take?

Yes, because she was unable to sing it that well three years later.

Snookums, r184, I was just pointing out they were released a year apart. I had no idea if r157 was correct or not. But guess what...they are.

Little Miss Alice Faye

[quote] would it have killed her to record a completely new version for the film soundtrack?

And waste good vinyl?

[quote]"Rose of Washington Square" is a 1933 musical, staring Tyrone Power, Alice Faye and Al Jolson and directed by Gregory Ratoff.

Gregory Ratoff plays Max Fabian ("Max, you sly puss") in "All About Eve."

Just to be pedantic, the youtube description gives the wrong date. Rose of Washington Square was released in 1939, not 1933.

Those YouTube descriptions have a lot of errors.

What were the Butterfly pictures like, r143?

R194 It was a big collage of candids in the recording studio, about half of them her making out with Jon Peters.

In fact, here ya go...

Shooting half of My Man live and recycling her vocal from a past album did always seem odd to me, but to be fair, her voice sounds excellent there. A lot of movie musicals do this. They'll record some easier to sing, more "actory" parts live on the set and use a perfected and sweetened studio take for the higher or more rangy, belty parts.

This is one of the reasons the Les Mis film felt a little anemic. Some moments worked well with the live singing and other parts could have used a more perfected studio take to give the vocals more excitement. To make someone sing "Bring Home Home" or "I Dreamed A Dream" over multiple times in a day is going to strain even the best trained voices who have the notes within their range.

Oh, her man, she loved him so, r195.

Frawley and Demerest hated each other even before Frawley was dropped from "My Three Sons" (he had become uninsurable).

Ownership of rights and profit participation explain at least some casting---Roz Russell got "Gypsy" because of her husband's role in the rights being bought. Merman referred to him as "The Lizard of Roz". Depending on the story, Lucille Ball either put up money for "Mame" or bought the rights.

Lucy didn't buy the rights to Mame but she did put a substantial amount of the production costs.

I saw the stage version of "Funny Girl" for the first time a few years ago (at a regional theater) and I was surprised at how different it was from the movie. Not just the changes in songs, but the framing device they used, with flashbacks, etc.

R195, those pics remind me that, regardless of its semi-popularity, Streisand must HATE the Funny Girl sequel, Funny Lady. Illiterate hairdresser boyfriend Jon Peters convinced Babs to do A Star is Born because she was so young, vital and sexy. She should quite playing "somebody's mother-in-law" and start playing a rock star.

Babs meets QE II at the 1975 London premiere of "Funny Lady", with Jon Peters in tow.

Is that where newly minted fake feminist Barbra asked Queenie why women had to wear gloved and men didn't, R202?

HAIL FEMINISM!

[quote] I remember reading about a proposed sequel where Katie and Hubbell get back together to deal with their daughter being a hippie in trouble or something. Who could have played that daughter I wonder.

ME!! ME!!

***waves frantically*

R204, Step aside, toots.

R204 We're talking about the 1970s, sweetie. What about US?

[Quote] I saw the stage version of "Funny Girl" for the first time a few years ago (at a regional theater) and I was surprised at how different it was from the movie.

Which one is better?

Off-topic, but I *adored* Jason Gould in THE PRINCE OF TIDES. He was so smol! Also, I could relate to his being a klutz in sports. And I really enjoyed his burgeoning friendship with Nick Nolte.

For a minute I thought that was Yasser Arafat meeting the Queen of England R202! But it's only Barbaric Streizand, a fashion terrorist. Yasser was prettier.

She's dressed like Lillian Monster in R204's photo.

r210 Did you perhaps mean LILY MUNSTER?

R202. Barbra did a nice demure curtsy to the queen. Not overly done, just right. And the right amount of royal chit-chat.

R202 The Queen's diamonds glittering!

The cherry on top of ROSE OF WASHINGTON SQUARE:

Alice Faye was taught "My Man" by Fox's vocal coach, Jule Styne.

I love “Lillian Monster”!

Regarding FUNNY LADY: Fanny Brice was never a blonde, yet Barbra is blonde in the film.

It's like Barbra is playing Alice Faye playing Fanny Brice.

Why was FUNNY LADY such a huge hit at the box office? Were people really clamoring for a sequel to a 7-year-old musical biopic?

Anne Francis as Georgia was meant to be Dolores, the World's Most Beautiful Showgirl. Simply no comparison!

[quote]Why was FUNNY LADY such a huge hit at the box office? Were people really clamoring for a sequel to a 7-year-old musical biopic?

By that time she was described as a "superstar". I think people wanted to see her in a musical again. The cast album was also a hit.

Poor Miss Francis...

I enjoy Funny Girl until the "Rain on My Parade" sequence. After that, the whole rest of the movie seems to fall oddly flat. They should have cut the second half by quite a bit, as it drags on forever.

Funny Lady ranked #7 at the box office in 1975.

[quote]Funny Lady ranked #7 at the box office in 1975.

And yet we never got "Funny Crone."

Funny Girl's costumes are gorgeous (Irene Scharaff). But the ladies' makeup and hairstyles in His Love Makes Me Beautiful (the big Follies number} are as ridiculously 1960's contemporary as the Ascot ladies in My Fair Lady. I hate when they spend so much money and then trip up on details like this that take me right out of the films. To be fair, Hollywood films in general are notorious for this.

[quote]then trip up on details like this that take me right out of the films.

Like I give a rats ass what some little homosexual thinks.

R224 I so agree. Especially hairstyles, I get so frustrated when the hairstyles are wrong. It’s one reason I appreciate “Chinatown” so much, they get all that stuff right.

Listen, it's her only watchable movie. Once, before you're 30. But her final lip synch to My Man is fucking terrible. And she poses all the way through of course. With some moments of charm and Barbaric sexiness. In great voice, but her grabbing OLD William Wyler by the balls and twisting them did the movie no favors. He didn't lose his touch or pacing. She just insisted on MORE of herself. I wasn't born when this film was made. Not for a long time after. But we learn a lot about the bitch in between. Whitney Houston was too scared and reluctant to be fabulous in the Bodyguard. Streizand insisted that eating moldy bread in the Warsaw Ghetto scenes make her fabulous. As she did in everything for the rest of her career. Funny Girl is a tour de force that DRAGS.

Gladys, your son and I are are visiting you tomorrow in prison. No nail file in the tiramisu for you.

I guess I'm the only person who likes the second half of Funny Girl. It's where Wyler gets to show his chops for drama. The scene where Arnstein is offered a job running the casino and is overjoyed is Wyler at his best.

Also the post trial meeting with Fanny when she asks him pleadingly why didn't you lie?! is very good too.

The Swan Lake parody is pretty bad and considering all the good numbers left out in the transition to the screen it's strange they couldn't do something better.

Does Funny Lady have an famous songs?

I don’t find all of Funny Girl’s score that amazing at face value. Streisand elevates it with her singing.

I doubt any other leading lady would have as strong an impact

You may have trouble with FG but try and watch Fanny Brice's mugging in "The Sweepstakes Ticket" sketch in Ziegfeld Follies. Oy.

Here it is.

[quote]R29 The same could be said of Wendy Hiller, but most everyone always goes on about how she was the ideal 'Eliza Doolittle.'

Who don’t people go on about Mrs. Pat being passed over for the film version of PYGMALION?

[italic]The injustice!

R75 et al

Not ugly per se, but Barbara Streisand was just very "ethinic" looking (shall we say). Standards for female screen (as in films, models, etc...) of the day still were heavily slanted towards western European ideals while Madame Streisand looked very much Jewish.

Doris Day would have made a fantastic and age-appropriate Dolly. She could sing, too. Debbie Reynolds wouldn't have been a bad choice, either. I know Streisand's career was white-hot at the time and she sang the hell out of the score, but she really was too young. She also had zero chemistry with Matthau.

Fast forward to "On A Clear Day..", Ms. Streisand lost a bit of weight, was a bit more sure of herself in front of camera, and learned now to make lighting and so forth work to her advantage.

Her tits looked great in that dress, but the turban was silly.

That being said even in OACD there's still no mistaking Babs Jewishness for that nose and other features. Will give Ms. Streisand credit she didn't go route of so many other Jewish females and males with a nose job.

Hot damn! Robert Redford in "The Way We Were" does it for me every time, talk about being a peak of physical beauty.

OACD is Minnelli's final real film. His last film, A Matter of Time, was snatched from him by the studio and butchered in editing. He disowned it and never made another film. Of course, he was quite elderly and beginning to suffer from Alzheimer's.

Comparing Ms. Streisand to the showgirls in "His Love Makes Me Beautiful" shows what she was up against in terms of standard American ideal of female beauty at the time.

Half those showgirls look like men in drag.

R243

Where do you think drag queens got that look from anyway?

Who the fuck keeps calling her Ms Streisand? She is a monstrous human being by ALL accounts. Always has been - from the start. Grotesque personality and humorless bitch. An egotistical nightmare. A lazy "perfectionist"! A know it all fountain of bad taste.

R26 ...say whaaaaa?

Crawford is gay/bi?

R237, I completely forgot about On a Clear Day!

I remember her sounding like a million bucks but the story was rather silly

LOL at the hysterical Whitney fangurl trying to elevate her to some great acting legend. Streisand has never been a great actress and has always been an on-screen personality who always plays variations of the same character, but Whitney was a wooden actress with no screen presence or charisma. She was a fantastic model who looked stunning in stills but when in motion she was dull and tedious. Her "acting" was just more of the usual "neck-rolling, finger-wagging, sassy Crackney from the hood" schtick she showed in the reality show.

R248, Kate Hepburn, is that you writing from the grave?

Streisand sings the first section of “My Man” live—but then the second section is lip-synched, to the same arrangement as on her album, but not the actual album cut.

What a sick mind has R248. Sad to read such hatred and racism. All day & everyday from that OLD white man.

F&F it.

Whitney was only mentioned in reference to her lack of acting ability and confidence. R248 has a major problem- calling her crackney!? Nobody really knows what Streisand did because we aren't all a hundred years old and her work is forgotten, no?

My grandmother says that Barbra Streisand overperformed everything but underperformed in everything.

The world loves Whitney Houston, that's for sure. Not many people know Barbra Streisand.

LOL! Yes, R211. Thanks for the Oh, dear!

I always knew the second half of My Man was lip-synched but I thought the recording was made for the movie like the rest of the songs. Are you saying it is actually an old cut recorded years before from one of her albums?

[quote] flowers, flowers, flowers.

R56 The movie is from the play by socialist George Bernard Shaw.

He wanted to write a didactic comedy talking about the middle class and the working class. So he set the first scene at Covent Garden which is one of the few places where the middle class are put into close proximity with the working class.

As you know the Royal Opera house is located immediately next door to the Covent Garden markets which sold meat, vegetables and flowers.

Pygmalion is problematic.

I’m going strictly by memory here, but in the version of “My Man” in the movie, the vocals are from a cut on the “My Name is Barbra” album but the instrumental arrangement is different. I think.

I’ve always thought the movie version of “People” is absolutely beautiful. Barbra dials it way down, which really works. And the arrangement is gorgeous. It’s the only version I like.

Watched it.

I didn't believe Streisand was that character for a second.

She really won an Oscar for that?

1/2 an Oscar.

What's My Line? - Barbra Streisand; Gore Vidal [panel] (Apr 12, 1964)

She's sweet and shy there.

What's up with her hair?

Is it a Korean wig?

She looks like one of those Martians from MARS ATTACKS!

Babs was OK in small doses as a comedienne but most of her attempts at acting were laughably bad. Her dragon lady nails alone disqualify her from being taken seriously.

I've always thought Barbra was tough, selfish, and hardheaded as a way to protect herself in a thoroughly rotten business. Good for her.

Well she's a sweet and shy person.

R265 I have a higher opinion of her as an actress than you do, but the ultra-long fingernails have always been annoying and to me, showed that she really wasn't serious about acting because God forbid she ever be without them.

Why are you guys talking about her nails for?

Correct, R257. I don't understand why people can't hear this it's so obvious, R250 and R254.

[quote](Funny Girl's costumes) are ridiculously 1960's contemporary

Yes, and Streisand was ridiculously contemporary in the 1960s. That was her decade. Attempts to fit in and be contemporary in any other decade - 1970s, 80s, 90s and 2000s fell flat.

I think she did the 70s upscale rustic Malibu hippie look pretty well. By the 80s she had settled on a look and after that rarely changed it up. She got boring from a style standpoint.

I grew up on the OBCR of Funny Girl with its all out brassiness. I've never been able to warm to her toned down performances on the soundtrack. She probably thinks it's more "artistic." After all, she's an "artist."

R272 well they did have to be toned down for the movie. I enjoy both. Maybe not the Schvan Lake one.

Babs made Borcht humor mainstream

f you say so, R271. Ewwwww

Streisand was the biggest female movie star of the 1970s. She was consistently on Quigley's annual list of Top 10 Movie Stars throughout the decade, sometimes at #2 and oftentimes as the only woman on the list.

R275 I was thinking more along these lines...

Oh look, a Barbra doll!

Brice and Tallulah on the radio

Miss Tallulah taught Snooks how to masturbate when she was making too much noise at a party.

"But ven I get mad, believe it Jack.....out from novhere comes a MANIAC!"

Underrated line

I was always fond of Mrs. Cohen at the Beach...

I tried watching this again but it was too "sixties" looking for me. All the women had bouffant hair and long frosted nails.

R283 what were you expecting?

You're not alone, r283. See r224 and r226.

Wasn't Arthur Laurents' main beef with Barbra doing Gypsy that she cut her fingernails?

He was right. The idea of Rose, who lives in hotels and has no money, having gorgeously manicured fingernails would be hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

Arthur Laurents has wanted Streisand to do Gypsy going back to the early 1970s. She rejected it because she said she was "too young" for the role.

R286 the real Rose Hovick was all about keeping up appearances. The family often went hungry in order to spend money on nice clothes/coats/shoes to give the impression that they were doing well. Rose didn't think that a shabby-looking troupe would attract theater owners.

Laurents did gripe about Streisand's glossy nails (and Redford's shaggy hair) in "The Way We Were". He thought they were anachronistic and out of character, reflections of the stars' vanities taking precedence over period accuracy. Don't know about "Gypsy"...

"Looking at the film today, Laurents says that it displays some fine chemistry between Streisand and Redford. But he also thinks the original story was seriously damaged by superstar personas and Hollywood hokum. 'Anyone who becomes a movie star must be superhuman to remain human. Superhuman, Barbra was not,' he writes, nor for that matter was Redford. Too often, according to Laurents, the movie became, in Redford’s case, about hair and teeth and white turtleneck sweaters to set off baby blues. For Streisand, he says, it was about grand accents and fingernails."

Even at the right age, I can't picture Barbra as Rose. Something about her doesn't scream "Rose" to me. I have a feeling it'd be a lot like the Bette Midler version. The comic parts would be pretty good, but the dramatic moments would fall flat. Midler still has the worst "Rose's Turn" I've ever seen. You feel absolutely nothing while watching it.

Maybe some period detail R284?

I didn't mind Redford's shaggy hair in TWWW in the beginning. It should have darkened and been shorter when he was an adult. Redford's love affair with the bottle - of bleach - was in full force in the 1970s.

[quote]the real Rose Hovick was all about keeping up appearances.

Gypsy is not about the real Rose Hovick.

She is pure electric when she performs live. I still think ending with lip-synching My Man was a huge mistake and I will go to my grave saying this. Live from one of her TV shows, toned down I think.

She has been quoted many times as saying that she is not good at lip-synching.

^ that's the confession, and it's fairly recent. She used to say she "didn't like" lip-synching because all her performances were different, she couldn't duplicate it with lips. A long way of saying, "I stinkerino at lip-synching." It takes Babs a long time to admit things like that.

[quote]She is pure electric when she performs live. I still think ending with lip-synching My Man was a huge mistake and I will go to my grave saying this.

MARY!

R297, I'll take the MARY!. I am not a Streisand fanatic, however, I've seen her live three times at Madison Square Garden. I am an armature musician and love all genres of music. She is like a human Stradivarius. You cannot believe this incredible sound is coming from another human being.

^^amature. I thought I corrected that!

amateur???

Barbra...LIVE

That Central Park concert is magnificent. She looked and sounded her best.

The real Nicky Arnstein was a toad. Brice could be glammed up but was def no beauty but Babs was way prettier.

I remember some music critic saying that she sang He Touched Me, which was a charming little song,, like it was Vissi d'arte from Tosca.

I didn't realize Barbra was already a huge recording star in the '60s. I figured her fame trajectory was two Broadway musicals and then off to Hollywood. I thought her recording career began in the '70s.

The great singer Sarah Vaughan wrote in Downbeat (or something) "Ooh, that's a very dirty song...she certainly was touched!" Sarah had a sense of humor.

R305, not only was she a big singer in the 1960s, Robert Redford ONLY knew her as a singer when he signed to do The Way We Were. He'd never seen her on a movie or TV screen, and was worried that she was too inexperienced to act the role in the film. When he remarked about it on that Oprah show where they appeared together decades later - that he asked her how hard she was willing to work on the role - Streisand looked confused.

R305. Omg, where have you been? Streisand was a sensation in the '60s. It was a the start of it all. Her first few albums were mesmerizing. Color Me Barbra is brilliant. Funny Girl on Broadway and the movie was a her legendary signature role of a lifetime. Then came The Way We Were in 1973, another landmark role. Then she branched out and did a range of music in the '70s. Personally, I wish she made more screwball comedies like The Owl and The Pussycat and What's Up Doc. She's very funny.

"He Touched Me" from A Happening in Central Park, 1968, in fact the entire album blew me away.

It is hard to imagine Redford not seeing Funny Girl or What's Up Doc. They were both huge films in their years. I call bullshit. Like Streisand saying she never heard any Fanny Brice before Funny Girl and a former friend said he played her some of Brice's recordings years before she did the show.

He Touched Me is Streisand at her best. It's tacky but amazing. She didn't deserve to sing the great songs of the American Songbook. But with a long melodic line and a few crescendoes,some suggestive lyrics and some sticky sentiments she did quite well. Modulations, a huge finish and a final note she could extend forever is her signature. Her voice used to SOAR. Problem was she really doesn't understand how to interpret songs well. She had a great voice but she's not a great singer. So most of her best work is with less important music. He Touched Me There is really just a climbing the scale song with a a few atonal grace notes in the bridge : perfect for Babs. talents and lack of taste. But she sounded fabulous on it.

But when she gives to same treatment to Have I Stayed Too Long at the Fair, we can see she's just generally without taste and mostly concerned with showing off her voice.

Bab's version of Memory is one her more beautiful and straightforward performances. Every now and then she wasn't a tacky shrew. But always with more mediocre tunes that suited her vocal style. She is far better suited to sing Andrew Lloyd Webber than Songdheim or Rogers and Hamerstein.

And them TV Specials!

R309, Redford doesn't even see his own movies. As far as Funny Girl and all, most straight men are not fond of musicals and don't go unless their wives drag them. Redford not having seen Streisand on film is backed up by Julia Phillips in her book - she told him to see The Owl and the Pussycat. He did and wasn't much impressed.

With respect to younger people who truly aren’t aware, I have to laugh that we’re actually discussing whether or not Barbra Streisand was a prominent singer of the 60s.

I urge anyone with an interest in popular music to explore her early albums, starting with “The Barbra Streisand Album” (1963 or thereabouts). Personally I’d stop at around “Barbra Joan Streisand” a decade later. I don’t care for her records after the early 70s. But for a while she was one of the most exciting singer/performers on the planet. Check out her 60s TV specials, too.

I dunno, R310, this is especially fine subtle singing of a standard, It Had to Be You. Skip the verse and watch the close-up.

Who do you think is a great singer, R310? Of popular music, I mean.

[quote] For "My Fair Lady," Jack Warner had no interest in Andrews

This was his last movie, his most expensive movie and the most prestigious. He wanted the two biggest names— O'Toole and Audrey.

Julie Andrews was then considered a little freakish, with a bell-like voice but an unsexy Pinocchio nose. (In fact the earliest mention I heard of her was in Gilligans Island where Gilligan was joking about someone with a long ski-slope nose and he described it as a 'Julie Andrews nose').

I remember Red Skelton on his CBS comedy show running around saying "My Name Is Barbra" with splayed fingers.

Alfred E. Neuman as Babs on the cover of Mad Magazine.

And them TV Specials!

[quote]Who do you think is a great singer, [R310]? Of popular music, I mean.

It's a broad category. Rosemary Clooney, Natalie Cole, Nat King Cole and Ella Fitzgerald for starters.

Of more "modern" singers, Streisand is not one. But I can still tell you who is.

R317 They wouldn't be allowed to do that cover today.

[quote] I am not a Streisand fanatic, however, I've seen her live three times at Madison Square Garden. She is like a human Stradivarius. You cannot believe this incredible sound is coming from another human being.

I've got news for you. You *are* a Streisand fanatic.

"Like Streisand saying she never heard any Fanny Brice before Funny Girl"

Like Streisand saying she had no influences and was a complete original. Many here have commented for years on how Streisand borrowed heavily from Lena Horne early in her career as an "actress who sings." Sis Roslyn Kind confirmed that Barbra listened to Lena Horne on the phonograph as a teen and young adult. Is this going to be in Babs' autobiography? Not on your life.

R320 The whole overtly international, multicultural theme of "Barbra Streisand...And Other Musical Instruments" wouldn't be allowed today, not as a solo vehicle for someone like her. The screams of appropriation!

^ that would be a good thing, R323

R324 Disagree. It was a celebration. Not her best work, but I enjoyed it.

R202. I didn't know commoners were allowed to ask the Queen a question as she passes by. What on earth could Babs ask the Queen of England without making her look like a fool? "What's in your purse?"

[quote]This was his last movie, his most expensive movie and the most prestigious. He wanted the two biggest names— O'Toole and Audrey.

1. Not his last movie. (see "1776")

2. Peter O'Toole?

[quote]Like Streisand saying she had no influences and was a complete original. Many here have commented for years on how Streisand borrowed heavily from Lena Horne early in her career as an "actress who sings." Sis Roslyn Kind confirmed that Barbra listened to Lena Horne on the phonograph as a teen and young adult. Is this going to be in Babs' autobiography? Not on your life.

You're wrong.

Streisand has mentioned Joni James aa her big influence and listening to her records over and over again when she was a kid.

*as her big influence

R327 he was a British actor who was nominated for several Oscars and never won.

R328 that reminds me of a recent comment I saw on YouTube where someone claimed that Marilyn Monroe copied Dorothy Dandridge. Anyone who has studied Marilyn knows that her biggest idol was Jean Harlow. She continued to adore her and derive inspiration from her to the very end. In one of her last photo sittings, she posed as Jean Harlow.

I'm guessing R327 is questioning the notion of casting Peter O'Toole over Rex Harrison. I could see O'Toole in the role, certainly, but it belonged to Rex!

R327 Warner announced in 1964 that 'Lady' would be "his last movie, his most expensive movie and the most prestigious".

R332 I agree Rex was superb in the role but it unfortunately it meant his mother had to be played by an ancient Gladys Cooper. And of course that meant New York bitches would describe the whole movie as 'embalmed'.

I believe Warner wanted Cary for Higgins and Cagney for Doolittle. Anyway....Joni James...

R334 I don't know the correct singer's terminology but I hear the little influences. And yet Joni James is all but forgotten.

[quote]In one of her last photo sittings, she posed as Jean Harlow.

That was in 1958. For LIFE Magazine.

FUN FACT: Dandridge and Monroe knew each other from about 1947 til MM's death.

"He Touched Me" was originally "SHE Touched Me," and was introduced by Mr. Barbra Streisand (Elliott Gould) in the musical "Drat! The Cat!"

Yes, r336, it was Avedon and it wasn't just Harlow. Celeste Holm said Marilyn emulated Grable and she was right. Watch Grable.

R337 Elliot Gould and Lesley Ann Warren? The exes of Barbra and Jon Peters? Well, ain't that ironical.

Elliot had a serviceable voice.

But he perspired profusely, r339.

She was on fire.

R334 Wow...you really can hear how Streisand emulated Joni James.

The most interesting part of that very extraordinary clip is the last 5 seconds.

And those flabby arms.

R224

Irene *Sharaff* likely forgot more about early 1900's Ziegfeld follies chorus girls then you'll ever know.

Her designs for Funny Girl's "His Love Makes Me Beautiful" navigated desires from the suits along with merging what (then) modern audiences expected showgirls to look like....

You can see from these period photos Ms. Sharaff's costumes weren't far off mark for Ziegfeld follies girls of the period.

Do you want to hear something freaky?

Joni VS. Barbra singing one of the most beautiful songs ever written: "You'll Never Know".

Here's Barbra as a kid in 1955 (link below).

After you listen to that, listen to Joni singing it. (following post)

They sound the same.

Joni

BTW: Joni James (Giovanna Carmella Babbo) is still with us at 90 years old.

RIP Barbaric Streizand.

I wonder if Joni has ever addressed the matter of her very famous fan? Did they ever meet?

Too bad they never dueted.

Like many other actresses such as Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher, Barbara Streisand kept (took, stole, stashed away) many of the costumes she wore in Funny Lady. Ms. Streisand later auctioned off much memorabilia (including dresses/gowns from Funny Girl) to fund her foundation.

I think the best word to describe Barbra’s singing is “exciting.”

For those of you youngsters who only think of Lena Horne as that delicate undemanding ingenue -

Lena's elegant cold-as-ice-persona and delivery was as far away from Streisand as could be.

Didn’t find a pic of Barb and Joni but did find this

Sharaff making the Ziegfeld Follies girls look like 1960s Cesars Palace girls is nothing new. Check out Orry-Kelly's fabulous costumes for Betty Grable and June Haver in THE DOLLY SISTERS where 1917 is 1945.

She was 26 when she did that.

R257 She was a guest of honor at the American Film Institute's Life Achievement Tribute to Barbra Streisand.

"The 29th annual AFI banquet, at which Streisand would become the first woman director so honored, was filled with those kinds of moments . . . funny, nostalgic and unexpected. Although the ceremony was nearly twice as long as most of her movies, it moved quickly, thanks to musical contributions by Marvin Hamlisch, Michel Legrand, early influence Joni James and 15-year-old Chicago native Lauren Frost, a dead-ringer for the Brooklyn-born star."

^^meant for R357

That’s great R361

One of the most beautiful gowns in FUNNY GIRL is a vintage 1930s Fortuny gown:

“I thought the Fortuny dress was gorgeous. Utterly simple-held together by a thin silk cord at the shoulders and very complex with that infinitesimal pleating. Irene Sharaff found the Fortuny dress for me. No one has ever figured out how he did those tiny pleats. It’s like Tiffany glass in a way. You can’t quite duplicate it, although many people have tried"

Mariano Fortuny (1871-1949) was born into a renowned family of artists in Grenada, Spain. At 18 he moved to Venice where he established his career. He began working in many areas of the arts including theatrical lighting where he invented cutting edge techniques like the cyclorama dome. He opened his couture house in 1906, and the first Delphos gown was created in 1907 as a collaboration between Fortuny and his wife & muse Henriette Negrin. The “Delphos” (names after the Greek statue Charioteer Of Delphi) was a direct reference to the chiton of ancient Greece, and meant to be worn without undergarments. It was originally intended as informal clothing to be worn solely around the home. These finely pleated silk dresses eventually became evening wear, and Fortuny’s most famous design. His method of pleating was a closely guarded secret involving applying heat to wet fabric. He patented this method in 1909 under the name “Genre d’étoffe plissé.

Delphos dresses all featured glass Murano beads strung on silk cord along each side seam. These beads are decorative but also serve the purpose of weighing down the silk for a smooth fit. These dresses began to be distributed in the USA in 1928 & were made until Fortuny’s death in 1949. Today, his gowns are extremely valued and collectable, selling for upwards of $10,000.

What is puzzling to me about BS is that she really wanted to act but singing was an easier career path so she went that direction hoping it would lead to being an actress. Why am I puzzled? She seems so happy when she's singing and at her most alive, she just shines so how is it that she had so little love for it? How does someone do that and not be in love with singing?

Fast forward and we see she didn't bother to take care of her voice, the thing that made her famous, the gift that leaves people in awe. I just don't understand.

Lucy and Desi were going to do Funny Girl but Gary talked them BOTH out of it.

If Anne Bancroft had said yes to FG on Broadway would there have still been a movie? Anne was a competent singer but hardly unique. Apparently she said no because she didn't like the show's book but she was desperate to do a musical to show off what she thought was her great voice.

Every now and then she didn't fuck it up. Just the voice man. A glory of resonance and clarity and power and that wild golden buzzy vibrato the put a spin on her notes into space. What a gift.

Joni James (born Giovanna Carmella Babbo, September 22, 1930) is an American singer of traditional pop music. She's still alive at 90.

[quote]I believe Warner wanted Cary for Higgins and Cagney for Doolittle.

Correct. And Cukor wanted Grant badly for A Star Is Born. They were old friends and had made several classic films together. Grant's refusal even to consider the role both bewildered and infuriated Cukor. It ruptured their friendship for awhile and Cukor wouldn't speak to Grant for several years, although they eventually reconciled.

In my opinion, Barbra's best album is The Way We Were...not the soundtrack to the movie, but the 1973 album shown below with the title song shown on the album cover. Stunning cover, but the way. Every song is a gem, several of which come from the writing team of Marilyn and Alan Bergman and Michel Legrand. What Are You Doing The Rest of Your Life, Pieces of Dreams and the brilliant Summer Me, Winter Me.

But my absolute favorite is The Best Thing You've Ever Done (not a Bergman song). It gives me chills. I have loved Barbra forever, but this song makes me love her all over again. Listen on the next post and see what you think. It starts off quiet and then she blows you away by the end.

"The Best Thing You've Ever Done"

R371

Babs looks like some JAP from Great Neck, LI on that album cover. My gwad those nails....

Rehearsing The Way We Weren't with The Marvin Hamlisch. One of the few men Barbra wasn't an asshole to. The ladies loved Marvin. Quite a fascinating collaboration.

[quote][R224] Irene *Sharaff* likely forgot more about early 1900's Ziegfeld follies chorus girls then you'll ever know.

[quote]Her designs for Funny Girl's "His Love Makes Me Beautiful" navigated desires from the suits along with merging what (then) modern audiences expected showgirls to look like....

What the fuck are you on about, r345, you ignorant slut. I identified Sharaff by name after calling FG's clothes "gorgeous" because she is in my personal PANTHEON of designers. So I had a brainfart and mistyped her name. I've done worse and I bet you have too.

Let me clue you in since your reading comprehension is nil. I complained specifically about the film's makeup and hairstyles while praising the clothes. Guess what? The costume designer does the costumes, not the hairstyles. That's the province of the hair stylist/hair department. The costume designer does the costumes, not the makeup. That's the province of the make up designer/makeup department.

[quote]Irene *Sharaff* likely forgot more about early 1900's Ziegfeld follies chorus girls then you'll ever know.

Probably, but you'd be very, very surprised. Now, excuse me, I need to calm down so I think I'll walk down the hallway where I keep my framed copies of original hand drawn and signed Follies costume sketches by Romain de Tirtoff and then look through some of my own sketches for The Light Opera of Manhattan many years ago.

Funny girl Bancroft belting out a tune.

R347/r348: We discussed Alice Faye above. She starred in the first lightly disguised film version of Brice's life, Rose of Washington Square (see post 171 and following; Faye sings "My Man" at r189).

At any rate, "You'll Never Know" was written for Faye and it became one of her signature songs.

R374 Mary ! !

[quote]If Anne Bancroft had said yes to FG on Broadway would there have still been a movie? Anne was a competent singer but hardly unique. Apparently she said no because she didn't like the show's book but she was desperate to do a musical to show off what she thought was her great voice.

As per the liner notes in the CD release of the OBC album, Bancroft said no after listening to the songs Merrill and Styne had written. Styne had reportedly seen Streisand perform at the Bon Soir and started to write the score with her powerful voice in mind. He wanted Babs in the role and was quoted as having been the one who persuaded Ray and Fran Stark to trek down to Greenwich Village and check out Barbra's nightclub act.

I am fascinated by the possibility of Stephen Sondheim as the composer of the score. He was attached to the project at the start but walked out when Mary Martin was involved and the choice to play Brice. Carol Burnett was I think the one who turned down the role and told them, "You need a Jewish girl to play this. Or at least someone with a nose."

Sharaff was very proud of her work on Funny Girl and Hello, Dolly! but she was so disgusted at the way Streisand behaved with her on Dolly that she told friends she would never work with that bitch again and she didn't.

Poor Irene: Out of the frying pan, into the fire...

If the Broadway production had opened a year earlier or a year later could Babs have won the "Best Actress in a Musical" Tony? Vivien Leigh won for "Tovarich" the year before and Liza Minnelli for "Flora, the Red Menace" a year later. Babs of course lost to Carol 👀 Channing in "Hell No, Dolly".

R381, And she had previously lost the Best Featured Actress Tony for Wholesale to Phyllis Newman for Subways are for Sleeping.

Phyllis liked to often mention that in interviews.

Happy Birthday, Barbra! I wonder what kind of cake she’ll have?

Off-topic but the depiction of Nicky Arnstein's compulsive gambling addiction as played by Omar Sharif is very good.

Seriously. The screenplay, and Sharif, really captures the insanity and helplessness of gambling addiction

R384 That’s interesting. I think I’m due for a re-watch and I will look for this. I’m always so busy watching Barbra that it’s hard to notice anything else.

r385, thanks.

The scenes are brief, but effective, especially, when it's Fanny's Opening Night of her new show ( she's already a big star) and Arnstein cannot resist sitting in on the poker game ( even his friend is trying to dissuade him) and his addiction fools him onto thinking it'll be just a few hands of cards, and then....several hours later...

Also, the scenes of the desperation of debt and then his embezzlement crimes.

Very accurate.

Streisand has mentioned Joni James as a singer she LISTEN TO, not an influence and certainly not a big influence on her singing. Babs was not going to be a singer then, she was going to be an actress. Singing was the only job she could get early on. Streisand also listened to Johnny Mathis incessantly, would you say she sounds like him too?

I saw Joni on Joe Franklin Show in the 1970s, and he mentioned what Streisand had said. Joni said she thought is was "cute."

Actually Barbra Streisand and Johnny Mathis have quite similar vocal abilities and musical tastes. A little over emotive. I would say that Mathis is a better singer than Streisand. The both love a modulation, complex, long vocal lines and eye popping sustained notes to finish on. Count how long Mathis holds the final note of this song, it's astounding! And though he is more humble than Streisand, he knows very well how good he is. He shows off his style and ability without dismantling the song. The same can't be said of Streisand. They both have unique and beautiful resonance and signature vibratos.

Mathis's famous West Side Story Medley is more beautiful and difficult singing than Streisand ever attempted in her life. He sang it a hundred times a year, for years. LIVE. Barbra is a studio singer.

And Johnny Mathis was greatly influenced as a singer by Lena Horne:

"I wanted to be her. I wanted to tell her...how much I worshiped her. She got annoyed with me, I don't blame her. I thought nobody could appreciate her as much as I did. I'm afraid I made a fool of myself...and she treated me as a naughty little child."

Joni James was no Joanie Sommers.

I forgot all about Joanie Sommers.

R390 Mrs. Steele, did you know Joanie had a big hit in 1960 with “One Boy” from Bye Bye Birdie, containing the line “one boy to laugh with, to joke with, have Coke with”?

R389, Similar to Michael Jackson's idolatry of Diana Ross.

The new title song they wrote for the film was so bland and awful. They got rid of the beautiful songs "Who Are You Now?" and "The Music That Makes Me Dance" to give us the forgettable tedium of "Funny Girl" and the rehash of "My Man" from a previous album. Cunts.

R394 Agree, "Funny Girl" is an awful song.

Did Barbra ever sing "Who Are You Now" in concert?

People who only know the Funny Girl soundtrack, I highly recommend the original Broadway cast album. It's spontaneous and fun, recorded I believe the weekend after the opening and released a week later. It has a few better songs as has been mentioned, and Streisand's young voice is better too. She hates it, probably because it's spontaneous and not over produced.

R396 What's up with her voice cracking at the end of "Parade," though? Is it indeed a crack or some wild flourish? If it's a flaw, I'm surprised Miss Perfectionist let it stand.

[quote]Did Barbra ever sing "Who Are You Now" in concert?

I sang it often in concert, and I even played Fanny!

[quote]Streisand has mentioned Joni James as a singer she LISTEN TO, not an influence and certainly not a big influence on her singing.

It is pretty well established that early Streisand emulated Joni James' style. A listen proves that. BTW: see post R360.

Re: Mathis: if Barbra could at times be tacky and self indulgent, Mathis could be even more so. But wonderful all the same. I can understand how Babs would be influenced by his style as well.

Miss Cook at R398, when you played Fanny, were the lyrics changed to "If A Girl Isn't Skinny"?

The late, great Laurie Beechman could have starred in a Funny Girl Revival.

[quote]Miss Cook at R398, when you played Fanny, were the lyrics changed to "If A Girl Isn't Skinny"?

No, to "If a Girl Isn't Jewish."

How did the very Gentile Barbara Cook get cast as the very Jewish Fanny Brice? It would be like casting Streisand as Marian the Librarian. Or as Maria in TSOM.

Even more than Dreamgirls, Funny Girl has major 2nd act problems.

[quote]Why was FUNNY LADY such a huge hit at the box office?

It certainly did very well, being #7 at the box office that year as people have posted, but it was not "such a huge hit": it did $19 million in box office gross rentals, but the #2 film, ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEXT, did three times that box office that year. And the #1 film, JAWS, did [italic]six[/italic] times that. THOSE films (especially JAWS) were bona fide "huge hits."

Let's tone down the hyperbole (which always erupts on threads about Streisand).

r405 The 19 million is the net rentals in the US and Canada and does not include worldwide figures.

The net is what is returned to the studio (Columbia) after theater's playing the film have taken their cut. The actual US/Canada gross was more than double that. In light of the fact that the film was not roadshown as "Funny Girl" was (at higher reserved seat prices), it was a notable success for its time and in light of the kind of titles that were bringing in the big bucks.

"Box office: The film opened Wednesday, March 12, 1975 and grossed $2,254,3851 in its first five days from 111 theatres to be number one at the US box office. It went on to gross $40,055,897 at the U.S. and Canadian box office, making it the seventh highest grossing picture of 1975."

^ It's vulgar as fuck, Streizand on Steroids. Barbaric is the only actress in history to make Bob Mackie look bad. AND she oversings EVERYTHING in UnFUNNY LADY. Terrible film.

The ultimate Rose...

Bob Mackie dressed Streisand as a drag queen in Funny Lady. The aquacade number is even less funny than the Swan Lake parody in FG which is saying something.

Irene Sharaff did only Streisand's clothes in the film of Funny Girl. The rest of the production was Gene Allen. And if you see pictures of the original costumes of the Follies no way would they have worked in a big musical that needed to be a huge popular success in '68. As for hair I assume more contemporary styles are used to make the characters more relatable to audiences of the the current era when the film comes out. And they don't look dated until that era passes. These hair stylists were not stupid people. There was a Playboy piece that came out when the film did showing some of the showgirls in the His Love Makes Me Beautiful number topless.

Sharaff did Streisand's clothes for the the stage version of Funny Girl, then the film, then Hello Dolly. This woman had dressed the biggest star for decades. For her to refuse further work with Streisand means that Babs had turned into quite the monster. Sharaff herself was impossibly demanding(look at her work) but she was known as a decent human being.

I don’t understand why filmmakers don’t strive for the utmost visual authenticity for a period piece. That way the film has a sort of timelessness, the way Chinatown does.

R369, you can't really blame Grant for not wanting to work with the notoriously unstable Garland. He was a perfectionist and prided himself on his professionalism: Working with Judy would have driven him crazy. Also, by the early 50s the former Archie Leach had perfected the suave Cary Grant persona, and he was reluctant to risk playing a broken-down alcoholic.

Had he put up with Judy and dug into the role of Norman Maine, he probably would have won an Oscar. But Grant was increasingly risk-shy as he got older. He was more concerned with having his contractual demands met than playing meaty roles. The result was he died a rich old man, but he missed out on a lot of great films, including ASIB, Sabrina, the first Bond, etc.

Everything was beautiful...

If I recall correctly, r409, Sharaff said one of the problems she had with Barbra was her habit of adding/adjusting her boob pads.

When "Funny Girl" opened in Boston in 1968, it played at all three of the screens at the upscale Cheri Theater complex in Back Bay at reserved seating.

Period accuracy was eschewed a lot of the time to make period pieces fell more contemporary, r410, or to make the costumes more cinematic (i.e. Plunkett's GWTW hoopskirts were larger in scale than the actual period ones). Modern designers make more of an attempt to be true to period. I remember when Barry Lyndon came out, an instructor of mine was bowled over by the costumes, but ranted about how contemporary Berenson's make-up was.

R399, nothing has been pretty well established, it's a matter of opinion.

[quote]Bob Mackie dressed Streisand as a drag queen in Funny Lady

Totally agree, and with everything you said about the contemporary hair and clothes.

The best thing I can say about Funny Lady is it's about clothes, change after change after change. Not that I like the clothes or think Streisand looks good in them. The same thing with the 1974 version of The Great Gatsby, it's about clothes, there's not much else there.

R397, Streisand was a 21 year old becoming a star, she didn't have the clout to demand re-takes. If she did, she'd probably scrap the entire album.

Barbra Streisand's Deleted Scenes from 'ALL NIGHT LONG'

R416 Yes, but that crack was so outrageous. It was worthy of a retake, unless they all decided it sounded cool. She didn’t stop holding the note. But again, was it an intentional vocal flourish? Certainly very unusual. I’ve wondered about this for decades…

The crack or flourish or whatever it was is at 2:30. Thoughts?

Lillias White can SING that song with actual vocal flourishes R419.

Streisand's voice cracks.

It does sound like a hiccup, doesn't it, r419?

I like Cornet Man from the Broadway show, dropped for the film.

R421 It’s bizarre! But strangely beautiful. Only Babs could make a crack sound good.

I believe the woman who designed the costumes for Barry Lyndon won an Oscar. She also did the costumes for Marie Antoinette. She cretated 200 amazing dresses just for Marie. She reused a hat from Barry Lyndon in Marie.

William Wyler talks about FG in this documentary. Starts at 7.03.

R424 Thirty years apart? The Sofia Coppola movie?

I didn't find it beautiful, r423.

[quote] In light of the fact that the film was not roadshown as "Funny Girl" was (at higher reserved seat prices), it was a notable success for its time and in light of the kind of titles that were bringing in the big bucks.

"Notable success"? Absolutely.

"Huge hit"? No.

Whaddya know, r424, that particular instructor got her degree from U of T.

"Willie knew when it was right, he was wondaful!"

Willie had excellent taste.

John Huston said so in that very short video at R425

Oh good fucking lord. William Wyler was one of the greatest directors who ever lived. Check out his important films. Funny Girl had Barbaric Streizand as a backseat driver. All that fucking singing. Oy.

Bette Davis adored William Wyler, said he was the love of her life.

[quote]The rest of the production was Gene Allen.

Wasn't Allen an Art Director that worked with George Cukor on Star and My Fair Lady?

I think he was a long time collaborator. He was certainly on the never completed Something's Got to Give because he is interviewed in the documentary on it.

R424

Believe you are referring to Milena Canonero

Allen spoke at a Los Angeles based Marilyn Monroe fan club. I was there that night.

Yes, thank you....

[Quote] The late, great Laurie Beechman could have starred in a Funny Girl Revival.

As a corpse?

Ah, the wit of R439. Oh dear! That ancient white fag grammar troll corpse - recognizes corpses. Fan of the barbaric streizand, no doubt. What more can she get?

Speaking of "A Star Is Born," TCM is showing three of the four most recent versions (Gaynor-Garland-Streisand) back-to-back as part of the "31 Days of Oscar" event. Starts at 6PM (EDT) on Monday. Compare and contrast.

Notice TCM is not devoting their programming to Barbra Streisand on her birthday today? She must be PISSED!

Those aren't the three most recent, r441.

We don't count the willam version.

Willam version?

Babs had a pretty good film career. The highlights are:

Funny Girl

The Way We Were

Yentl

The rest aren’t terrible and are generally entertaining

GOD help us, R446.

Get rid of Yentl and replace it with What's up Doc!

R447 Can I get an AMEN

Three films. One of them total garbage. None of them classic. How is that a pretty good film career R446?

Streisand made mostly bad to terrible films. She's such an egotist that they can't even be called mediocre. Some of them were popular. More are laughable. Funny Girl is the only film that she'll be remembered for. Because she sings. And sings. She must have seemed original the first time. Still most people can't stand her constant posing and even how many times she sings and poses in that one!

Somebody was fucking her right during What's up Doc. Because she's not bad at all and seems almost like a human. Funny Girl is what it is. And that's not small. A grand debut. But not a great movie. The Way We Were is not bad Goy Dreck. And that is all Streizand ever aspired to be, forever after.

She can't have a best movie. She never was in a great movie.

Her singing in Yentl is divine. But it's just another tug boat back home in immigrant chic for Babs.

Lost the plot was invented for egotists. Babaric Streusel.

I have never seen Yentl, nor have I any desire to.

"Barbaric Streisand" just gets funnier and funnier each time I see it.

Ha, it's true. Barabas Streizand. She sold out everything. A defiantly jewish woman who made A career AND life out of being seen to be desired and fucked by the best looking WASPS in the business. Would a convent take a jewish girl? Too bad she couldn't sing and had to show her ASS so often.

NO RELIGION, R448

I love Hello Dolly and can watch it a million times. It always makes me happy.

I love Hello Dolly too! I saw it as a kid and had no understanding of how miscast Babs was— but who cares!? It’s funny and she sings the fuck out of the score!

I will confess that I love A Star is Born.

It was Gene Callahan not Gene Allen. I'm an idiot.

R419, the “crack” gives the song more immediacy and emotion. It was done in purpose.

R420, that’s an amazing version of the song. White is a stunning songstress.

The jazzification assumes everyone knows the original version though.

Nobody mentions that on the soundtrack album a different take is used for I'm the Greatest Star. She makes a wrong entrance and has to stop herself. This can be expected on an obc recording like Hello Dolly where they didn't have the time to correct it but on a soundtrack recording it is very strange.

[quote]the “crack” gives the song more immediacy and emotion. It was done in purpose.

If it wasn't intentional, or if it was, as Bob Ross would say, a "happy accident" that they decided to leave in, it does seem odd that they wouldn't have wanted Babs to do another take.

R460, I just listened to the soundtrack version and don’t hear any wrong entrance in that song

It's on the LP. Did they fix it on the cd?

R460, 0n the FOLLIES OCR, Alexis comes in too early on "Waiting for the Girls Upstairs".

R446. Add these to Barbra's movie highlights:

NUTS

What's Up Doc

The Owl and The Pussycat

The Main Event

A Star is Born

The Prince of Tides

The Mirror Has Two Faces

And yes...Yentl

Don't forget Meet the Fockers R465! Another masterpiece from B.S.

I’m pretty sure that’s the first time that Nuts and The Main Event have ever been listed as career “highlights” for Babs.

Up the Sandbox is a very flawed movie, but Streisand does some of her finest work in it. Pauline Kael raved about her performance.

So the "crack" has never been addressed by Herself? Can no Barbralogist confirm?

R462 I'm not sure what is being referred to here. I tend to notice these things (I'm the "crack" obsessive) but I wore out the soundtrack LP long ago and never noticed anything amiss.

I hope you're joking R465.

FUN STORY:

Streisand had approval of the Funny Girl soundtrack album. In 1968 she was in her Hello Dolly trailer listening to the FG soundtrack on the portable phonograph. Something was wrong with the sound, and frantic Babs gets on the phone with Columbia Records in New York yelling her concerns about the defective sound on the record. Columbia flies an A&R rep to California to investigate. A&R guy listens to her copy of the FG soundtrack and realizes that the phonograph is not level. He puts a pack of cigarettes under one of the legs. Mission accomplished, he flies back to New York. Ah, to be a star and have the world at your beck and call.

This is from the very good Sean Considine book of 1986. Streisand hated it.

R59, nobody involved in The Owl and The Pussycat should consider it their best work. It is unwatchable.

I'm not a fan of the OBC recording of FUNNY GIRL. Capitol recorded it (they put money in the show) and it sounds tinny and harsh unlke the beautiful lush sound of Columbia cast albums.

R131, if it’s complexity you want then you need to see NUTS!

Many gays of a certain age are very fond of "What's Up, Doc." They saw it at an impressionable age and think of it fondly as one of the most hilarious films they have ever seen. It is not that good of a movie once you get past those warm memories. Also, stop calling her "Babe"! She hates that.

"What's Up Doc" holds up. I've re-watched many a time, including recently with my 20something nephew, who liked it well enough.

I still do my Madeline Kahn impression whenever I have to enter a questionable-looking place: "Hello....hellooooo?"

What's Up Doc bloopers...

[quote]Many gays of a certain age are very fond of "What's Up, Doc."

Actually many MEN of all stripes find What's up Doc hilarious to this day, regardless of how old they were when they first saw it. That's because it doesn't have any weepy-girly stuff, and because Streisand has been toned down considerably. They can't digest Streisand in other movies, too loud and screechy, aggressive, scary, and..... she sings.

The entire cast is delightful. And it moves fast.

R476 That hairstyle is SO unflattering for her big nose!

Its one of Barbras funniest and most beguiling performances.....but Kahn steals ever scene she is in.

^ in FUNNY GIRL?

No that was Anne Francis.

[quote]It would be like casting Streisand as Marian the Librarian. Or as Maria in TSOM.

Or Streisand as Dolly Levi née Gallagher.

[quote]Or Streisand as Dolly Levi née Gallagher.

In the movie, she's simply Dolly Levi. The "nee Gallagher" was dropped.

Is that all there is?

Why did Peggy dislike Barbra?

For having been put in a small side room while Streisand opened the big one in Las Vegas 1969, same hotel. The MGM which was then called The International. This is one reason, don't know the others.

Was that the Vegas show that Elvis watched before allegedly declaring "she sucks," and leaving with his entourage?

Yeah, and long after, Jon Peters made up a story that Babs and Elvis did it over nail polish.

[quote] Why did Peggy dislike Barbra?

R46 Peggy was jealous of Barbra because she was younger and skinnier but had a bigger diaphragm.

Yentl is nowhere near as good as people seem to claim it is.

[quote]The MGM which was then called The International. This is one reason, don't know the others.

The International became the Las Vegas Hilton, and then Westgate. Never MGM.

R491, Kiss my kosher ass.

To me personally, I think Barbra captures the essence of Fanny Brice best in "Funny Lady" when she performs "Blind Date" and "I've Got a Cold in My Nose". Her performance of these Kander and Ebb numbers has the kind of humor that Fanny seemed to exude in audio and video clips I've seen of her. They're the best moments in the film.

Did Babs eve keep kosher? She eats lobsters in Funny Girl. It must have upset a lot of people when the film opened.

R494, I don’t even remember those numbers, unfortunately

R26 I remember them, they were fun.

Maybe I'll become a nun.

DAT'S impossible.

"Even if he's Lon Chaney....fat, bald or short or tall....."

[quote]Kiss my kosher ass.

I didn't realize ham was kosher.

[quote]Barbra captures the essence of Fanny Brice best in "Funny Lady"

That's nice...what you forget is that Funny Girl is not about Fanny Brice, it's about Barbra Streisand

So if Mary Martin or Anne Bancroft had done the role would it have been more about Brice?

Probably not, R502. Mary Martin was a grand star of the musical theater (South Pacific, The Sound of Music), and Anne Bancroft was a Tony winner AND and Oscar winner (The Miracle Worker). There may have been more Brice than in the Streisand version...and they may have closed out of town. The reason Funny Girl became The Barbra Streisand Show was because it was a mess, and Jerome Robbins came back as unofficial director. Robbins threw out a load of scenes and songs to make Streisand the focal point.

Funny Girl became The Barbra Streisand Show.

Like Fania Borach became Fannie Brice.

What's this love affair with Fanny Brice about????

Barbaric Streizand was also a dated bore. RIP.

I have two plaques on the cenotaph at Westwood Cemetery where Marilyn is buried among the many others. I'm roughly fifteen feet from Brice's ashes which the Starks had relocated to their $400,000 plot. I knew the saleswoman who got the 10% commission on the sale.

Fanny Brice used a brand of 'comedy' that would be shunned today.

Fanny Brice was a dated old broad in 1950. Yet you boys wanted her revived in the 1960s. OY.

Fanny Brice was what we would call "visually-challenged' so she was obliged to sing comic songs.

'Rose of Washington Square' was written for her. The character of Rose has a large nose and wears second-hand clothes. The lyrics say "my turned up nose seems to please artistic people".

Lauren Bacall wrote in "By Myself" that Katharine Hepburn and Fanny Brice were dear friends.

When word of her death reached "The African Queen" location, Bacall said Hepburn was bereft.

Fanny Brice made only a few movies.

There is a great story about Hepburn and Brice.

The two ladies were at a party and Kate explained to Fanny what Communism was. "You see, Fanny - everyone shares."

Fanny: "Forget it. I'm not sharing my jewelry."

I can see Streisand saying that :-)

Streizand is the poster child for a limousine liberal. Still going on about nucular winters when the world is in flames of racial strife and vast poverty divide. WALLS!! Sometimes she mentions Bella Abzug. Yes equal pay Babs. Ladies should charge by the note. Just like you. 🎶 🙄

Barbra Streusel doesn't like to wear diamonds, but you can bet her peasant ASS that she hoards them.

"You can't persuade her with gun or lariat to come across for the proletariat."

[quote] a limousine liberal.

Champagne socialist

Babs really isn't much of an entity anymore, except to elder gays and elder jews. No one younger has any clue about her history and output.

She's just a "legend" awards shows will soon trot out to give the "Best Song" or "Best Movie" award.

True R516. But there are legends who still matter to people. Dolly Parton is adored beyond reason. I know, cuz I do too. Jane Fonda. Cher and Bette to a more normal extent. Oprah. Celine. Aretha always was greeted as a queen, even when she sang badly. But Streisand... her work is forgotten and nobody has any sentiment toward her presence. She never wanted to please anyone. She's a cold egotistical not very musical voice of your parents or grandparents generation. And they don't like her either. True. Streizand is unlikeable. Not because she is a successful woman in show business who insists on perfection. Not because she is Jewish. Not because she is ridiculous or rich.

Because she has an extremely unlikeable personality. The end. What's to like? She's a humorless asshole. She gave NOTHING to anyone in life without reminding them they were lucky to receive it, or telling them how much it cost. She's tacky and rude. A once pretty voice, on record.

One gets the impression her mother was exactly like this.

[quote]Fanny Brice made only a few movies.

From "Everybody Song," Fanny Brice, as Baby Snooks, does a rather excruciating routine with Judy Garland. Some of the dialogue, "A girl's a girl and a boy's a boy," would seem to be at odds with 21st-century notions about gender.

^^ Sorry, the movie title is "Everybody Sing." Darn that autocorrect. ^^

R519 Fania Borach AKA Fannie Brand AKA Fannie Brice was no beauty.

Her comedy seems dated now, but Fanny was a superstar in her day, first from live performances and later radio. Like many great stage performers (Merman, Martin, Lawrence) she never really took to the movies. By the 1960s I think her legend was waning, so it made sense that her daughter and son-in-law decided to burnish her memory with a new Broadway musical. They were damn lucky to have found Streisand, otherwise who knows if anyone today would remember Fanny Brice.

[quote] she never really took to the movies

No, the movies never took to her.

[quote]She never wanted to please anyone. She's a cold egotistical not very musical voice of your parents or grandparents generation.

And you say Streisand had nothing in common with Lena Horne?

Bette Midler would have made a better Fanny a few years later.

Brice like Al Jolson and Rudy Valle were superstars in their day but what made them stars in the teens and 20s in no way translates to today's audiences. Though I have to say as much as I dislike Jolson his singing scenes in The Jazz Singer are electrifying due in great part to the rest of the movie being silent so he just about explodes when the sound kicks in. And Vallee gave a couple of good performances in movies such as How to Succeed and Palm Beach Story.

"Blind Date" - sorry no video.

[quote]Brice like Al Jolson and Rudy Valle were superstars in their day but what made them stars in the teens and 20s in no way translates to today's audiences.

They didn't translate to audiences in 1964 either.

Well to be fair there were many people still alive in '64 who enjoyed them in their youth and a large group of people still knew who they were which is how Brice got her own musical and Vallee got a sensationally staged entrance in How to Succeed. Don't they still keep it in even though it makes no sense? I think I remember it being used in the Broderick revival.

Valle was very smart about his career - moving from crooner to popular character actor. His Fleischmann Hour radio broadcasts of the early 1930s was notable for always mentioning the composers of the songs performed.

Years ago, Lucie Arnaz was a guest on Howard Stern to promote that documentary she made about her parents.

Stern asked her which guest stars on the "Here's Lucy" series were the biggest assholes.

She mentioned only one, Rudy Vallee.

^ I wonder why?

He was dead and couldn't sue for defamation

Rudy, darling R532, one cannot sue for defamation when one calls you an asshole. Even if you're fucking ALIVE.

Even Babs Streusel was old fashioned in 1964. Popular, with old jews and swooning gays. Always her gay fans were older than Barbra. (She did look good there in Central Park. For a 45 year old.) Which makes the 1,342 of you about 85 years old! Mazel.

Streisand was as big as you could get in the pop realm in the 60s. And Funny Girl was one of the biggest films of the decade. How do you call that old fashioned? She was of her time and a huge star. It would be like saying Betty Grable was old fashioned in the 40s because she appeared in period films.

But we were bigger than Barbra AND Jesus.

R536, Coukd I get another autograph, Mr. Lennon?

I just watched a few videos of Lea Michele on YouTube. She copies Babs moment by moment every time she sings one of Babs’ songs.

No, she is no Babs but every freaking Jewish gal from Long Island thinks she’s the next Babs

Streisand was also very popular with teenagers in the 1960s. It was her differentness and rebellious attitude that attracted them as much or more than her singing. It sound absurd today, but at one point early on true. You had to be there.

Get a load of this 1965 NYT article:

All ugly women in showbiz were called "kooky." Streisand qualified.

Many forget that Streisand was replaced on Broadway by Mimi Hines.

Well Barbara Cook must have been interesting. I wonder if there is a tape of that somewhere. Didn't she do Who Are You Now in her act? I would very much like to hear her doing the entire score.

R542, no one mentioned Barbara Cook.

She's mentioned earlier in the thread if you had bothered to read it. So if you can't be bothered don't open your mouth and reveal your stupidity.

[quote]She's mentioned earlier in the thread if you had bothered to read it. So if you can't be bothered don't open your mouth and reveal your stupidity.

Patty Lupone confesses to only reading her part of the script in every production. I, like her, don't care what other people have said, just let me dump my pearl and go without some bitter Betty calling me out.

Why didn't Streisand play Eliza Doolittle?

Instead of "Wouldn't it be loverly?" it would be "Ya know what I mean?

"Patty Lupone"

Oh, dear.

Are there any other musical roles that are more identified with a performer than Streisand for Funny Girl, Robert Preston for Music Man, or Rex Harrison for My Fair Lady...and all because they got to make the movie versions? In its time, everyone said that no one could top Merman in Gypsy, but lots of other actresses have won acclaim in that role. Same with My Fair Lady and Hello, Dolly! I guess since Mame hasn't had a major revival, Angie still has that role, but if there's ever a good revival someone else could claim it, too.

Streisand was wise to sell her soul to Ray Stark to get the movie of Funny Girl.

[quote]Patty Lupone confesses to only reading her part of the script in every production

MISS Barbara Stanwyck claimed to have MEMORIZED every script of every movie and TV show before she acted in it!

^And yet, she STILL did The Colbys.

But I wonder if Babs had called his bluff would he have really wildly miscast it with MacLaine in the role or Edie Gorme? Who else could have done it? A dubbed Elizabeth Taylor?

Eydie had the pipes.

R550, She left after the first season.