What’s the point of Palm Springs?

Palm Springs is boring.

Where else can you see Suzanne Somers drunkenly flashing her jugs at the local Ralphs?

The final refuge for aging gay men to congregate and parade around behind naked behind walls.

[quote]Are there even hot springs?

Yes! I've sat in one

[quote]Other than being far from the beach and 100 degrees, how is it different from LA?

It aint 100 degrees all year round Mary.

San Francisco - Guerneville seems like a better comparison than Napa. Is Napa a gay retirement destination?

When I first moved to California and visited Palm Springs, I was underwhelmed to say the least. Friends of mine said, "Well, it's a nice place to relax."

I said, "I don't want to relax that much." Talk about nothing to do. The extent of the conversation behind the walls of your "resort," is: "So where are you going to dinner?"

Palm Springs is relaxing, the air feels better than LA and you can see the stars in the sky at night. I love it there

To play tennis with Charlie Farrell, natch

The perfect place for a career change from porn to real estate?

But what's the point of most places? Swimming (beaches AND pools) seems paramount to OP, but aside from a few DLers living on $45,000 a year in tiny rent-controlled apartments in Manhattan and (pre-Covid) going to the Theatre twice a week every week forever, how many residents of a place avail themselves of what their cities have on offer.

What's the point of Provincetown? A beach, cafes, places to stay, a few shops, and up and down, up and down, up and down the main street?

Special white undergarments aside, clearly there's no point whatsoever for Salt Lake City. And yet there it is. And growing.

You think LA and Palm Springs are essentially interchangeable because of car culture and access to pools?

And you think LA is a suburban city?

You think it's just as easy to rent a house in Malibu as it is in Palm Springs?

You win authoring the most idiotic post in a while, OP! From start to finish.

The point of Palm Springs is to form a soul union with the Daddy you adore for ever and ever and ever.

R11, lol.

Palm Springs is where all the old queens mutter, where their earrings clip and their kaftans flutter.

Surely the main point of Palm Springs is sex right?

It's where the queers could get away from nosy spies.

I hate the desert, I don't golf, I don't gamble and I'd rather fuck indiscreetly in the woods.

Most of the year it’s 🥵. I hate 🥵 weather.

Malibu is too cold. What's the point of being next to the ocean if you need a wet suit to swim in it? Sure it's lovely scenery but Palm Springs has that too in abundance and hot weather in spades.

Legends say that homos knew this was the promised land when they used a staff to strike a rock and from it poured fresh poppers.

[quote]Where else can you see Suzanne Somers drunkenly flashing her jugs at the local Ralphs?

You can save yourself the drive all the way out to Palm Springs and see Joyce Dewitt drunkenly flashing her jugs at Grocery Outlet Bargain Market in Inglewood.

[quote]but aside from a few DLers living on $45,000 a year in tiny rent-controlled apartments in Manhattan

That they only leave to go to the corner store to buy their gallon jugs of Smirnoff and Marlboro Menthol Lights 100s.

R9

R18, Malibu too cold, huh?? Lived there year around and have enjoyed the sand and ocean on plenty of winter days. It’s bright and sunny. Surfers use spring wet suits because they sit along time in the water without moving. Palm Springs is a completely different animal than LA. A great get away with plenty to do. Stick with your bitterness in your nursing home.

It's not a hundred degrees in the winter, OP. It has perfectly fine weather for about half the year (70's and 80's F for daytime high temps) and is only unbearable to me from June to September. Some people even love the heat. I'm not one of them. But even during the summer, when the temperatures are 100-plus, they fall back into the 70's when the sun goes down.

It's a great getaway with far more to do than walk around in a caftan discussing where you'll eat that evening.

It's for lizards and the people who resemble them.

LA has pretty hot weather now, too. The last three or four summers have seen several days in the 115-120 degree range, and plenty of days 100+.

"Stick with your bitterness in your nursing home. "

It is not I that appear bitter? Having a bad day, dear?

I've been looking at VRBO listings for PS in December, and there are some surprisingly inexpensive places. Like <$100/night for a 2-BR unit.

R23's tweezers broke so now he can't masturbate.

Only on Datalounge would a post like this engener so much hissing and over the top anger

Lunch at Charlie Farrell’s Racquet Club. Gazpacho Dungeness crab chicken breast in aspic. Cheesecake with fruit.

Forgot to sign the above: 1965

I've been to Palm Springs a couple of times.

I went there for the first time with a friend who grew up in the L.A. area. This was a long time ago. What I remember was hanging out by the pool, sipping a drink. I.e., there was a pool culture there. You can work on your tan, scope out people in their bathing suits (in the bright light), meet up later, etc.

Those date shakes make great lubricant. Yummers!

I haven't been to Palm Springs in many years, but when I lived in LA I used to love to go there, just because it was quiet and peaceful and sunny with beautiful mountains and palm trees. It didn't take a long time to get there, and it was another world, very different from LA.

I’ve live in Los Angeles and many of my friends in their 40s to late 50’s either already own a 2nd place in PS (or the surrounding desert comunities) or plan to when they retire. For most of us, it will be a place we’re already are familiar with, have friends and aquantainces that are already living there. Plus, PS is a super gay friendly place, only that’s two hours from LA, all that make’s it a great option for those of us with ties to Souther California. Also, property and rent prices are much lower than LA and its surrounding suburbs.

To those of you who don't get or like PS, that's fine. We don't need you there. It's magic to the right people.

OP probably thinks Fire Island is still cool.

I moved into a straight friend's place (renting it from them) in January from NYC and I am shocked how much I enjoy it. Am I here forever? Who knows. The cost of living is fantastic compared to LA and NYC. I am saving money again - despite our household having lost one job from COVID. It is very relaxed. We watch bunny rabbits and hummingbirds and road runners in our yard. I'd say that is a nice upgrade from watching rats, pigeons and the homeless in NYC. There are homeless here, but nothing like LA, NYC, Seattle, etc.

We're not your usual gays - we don't do the bars, we are young for PS, and we find we have plenty to do. There are 3 drive ins, tons of outdoor things to do, beautiful hikes. I never have to fight to find a parking spot at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. Trying doing that in LA.

The one thing that has also surprised me is the city is much more straight, especially the tourists, than I would have assumed. My LA friend said all the gays have been moving to Yucca Valley and Coachella because they gentrified the place and the straights have been pushing up the prices. Typical.

[quote]We're not your usual gays

oh, so you look 10 years younger than you actually are!

For those gay men with AIDS, 'tis the elephant graveyard.

There was a documentary about hiv + eldergays who moved to Palm Springs- Desert Migration

The men in it were largely DRIPS.

Who the fuck is Charlie Farrell?

R26, not to get too nitty gritty, but the record high for LA (downtown LA; the Valley doesn't count) is 113 in 2010... So no temps even near 120. Just an FYI...

Hollywood actor, tennis enthusiast, major PS developer and after WW2, mayor of Palm Springs.

It exists so eldergays can still get laid.

Palm Springs and the surrounding Coachella Valley are vastly smaller than metro LA. Gay retirees - and anybody else - can drive to each others' homes in less than an hour "depending on traffic".

Bear in mind as well that Los Angeles has no pretty, rural hinterland as SF and NY do. Everything is developed right up to the mountains. The mountains are mostly parkland or inaccessible. Beyond the mountains - desert. So, if you're a Southern California native or hardy transplant, your choices for retiring to a smaller, less crowded, less frenetic place with manageable traffic and nearby open spaces are minimal.

[quote]It exists so eldergays can still get laid.

And talk about Barbra.

It's aesthetically pleasing, if you like midcentury modern architecture. The past is preserved there and respected. Also, many people have a real need to simply relax in a quiet environment, be it for a weekend or much longer. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's true of anywhere. If you need to be entertained nonstop, then just go to LA or Vegas.

It's The Villages for faggots.

[quote] Bear in mind as well that Los Angeles has no pretty, rural hinterland as SF and NY do. Everything is developed right up to the mountains.

I wouldn't equate PS with rural hinterlands. If you have enough $, you can find peaceful spots like Santa Barbara. (I don't know anything about SB, just assuming it's a peaceful place.)

[quote]It exists so eldergays can still get laid.

[quote]And talk about Barbra.

Simultaneously.

We've been wintering down here for the last 3 years from Portland. We rent a 3 bedroom for 3.5 months. The condo complex has nice swimming pools, hot tubs, and fantastic tennis courts and is walking distance to downtown.

Too late now, but you could have gone food shopping with Carol Channing in her 1970 Buick Electra convertible. Maybe buy a can of corn or two...

I moved to PS after 10 years in San Francisco. Bought a place outright for what I made on the sale of SF home. Lasted a year and got bored. Went to LA with my husband for 5 years. Fucking hated it so much. Moved back to PS a month ago-love it here. I'm ready to be bored. Nice restaurants, nice people, and everything is SO easy. Just going to the grocery in SF or LA was a nightmare. We live within walking distance of bars, restaurants, and shops, and it's about half the price to live here so, we can go on vacations during the hotter months.

It really does seem dull and you can find any number of retirement destinations with a lot of gays these days. I mean golf (ugh),. Brown lifeless surroundings, ugh. You might get nice desert blooms, under the right conditions. But really, it's just a small sprawlburg and it's environmentally unsustainable. The old Hollywood crowd gave it (if they weren't hanging there to die) a long time ago, because there are number of places that are more interesting if you can afford a plane ticket.

A friend of mine moved there for a job and couldn't afford the A/C bills. Other than that he didn't say anything else too bad about PS

Its for the poors.

I wouldn't be caught dead living there.

It’s a great getaway spot. Pool weather in February.

Right R59, I thought that was the appeal, that when it was sub-70 and raining occasionally in LA in February and March, it was warm and sunny in Palm Springs

[quote]I wouldn't be caught dead living there.

A lot of them are!

Charlie Farrell was a hot daddy.

R58 I'm sure no one cares where, as long as you end up dead

Or Janet Gaynor, R62

He was a good-looking young man, too.

[quote]There are 3 drive ins

Where? I've never run across a drive-in anywhere in the Coachella Valley.

Palm Springs is where they serve Truvada on Toast.

Palms Springs is a great get away. As soon as I get there, I get naked, jump in the pool. You can just walk around at night with your shirt off, smoke a joint, read a good book by the pool. If you are in LA, there are certain places you can go where you'll see people you know and places where you can just escape. It's very chill. You can also swim in the morning and then take a tram to be in snow. It's the perfect place to be decadent. Because it's less expensive, a lot of LA gays move there and retire much younger, meet up in the bars in the afternoon.

[quote]meet up in the bars in the afternoon.

Alcoholism isn't my idea of fun.

Meth, R68?

Palm Springs sound like the type of place where OVER THE HILL SCENE QUEENS are put out to pasture.

I like the chill social scene there too - and that includes the bars. Admittedly old school but I find gay bars life enhancing. A place where I feel comfortable and can meet people casually. That doesn’t happen at Whole Foods. PS offers a nice life for eldergays I think. Without the hassles and expense of LA/NY - because the things there are no longer of value or a priority. Just living a simple life in an accepting place with other gays is all I ask.

@r9 the difference is that every other “escape” from the big city, gay or otherwise, is fundamentally different from the city people are escaping from. P-town is nothing like Boston, fire island and the Hampton’s is nothing like New York, Greenville or Napa or even Marin have nothing in common with San Francisco. Anything you can find in Palm Springs is available in LA. Suburbs with pools, hot weather, stars (topanga or areas around Santa Barbara). There is no discernible aesthetic or activity based difference between greater LA and what one finds in Palm Springs to the level you find in other major cities. It’s a waste of a long ass drive when you could rent a house with a pool right at home.

R72- I have ZERO interest living in a place that routinely gets up to 115 degrees in the summer but there is one BIG difference between Los Angeles and Palm Springs- The COST of Living.

The food is absolutely horrible compared to LA. No point in going out to dinner. I ate at multiple Mexican places during my stay on recommendation from some Seattle queens and they were all inedible. LA food you are actually excited to eat. And you want a hot hellscape with a pool? Rent a getaway in the valley. The architecture is equally as shitty and it’s much closer to home for LA residents. Palm Springs is POINTLESS.

[quote] Palm Springs sound like the type of place where OVER THE HILL SCENE QUEENS are put out to pasture.

And?

Love the desert. If you know, you know. Otherwise, enjoy wherever it is that blows your skirt up.

R75 I know, and the ALL CAPS are revealing of someone who's hurt and feels rarely heard

R56 what do AC bills run during the hottest months?

R75- Because these OLD scene queens would go to Fire Island, Key West and similar places that are HOT in the summer, so the perfect place for them to go when they're OLD is an inexpensive hot place so they can sun themselves like the OLD LIZARDS that they've become.

Orange tans, hair plugs and rings on every finger.

R79 ALL CAPS IS ON A BENDER!

R81- That's NOTHING. I sometimes use MANY MORE CAPS IN A SENTENCE.

Sigh...I need a vacation. Even a shitty one.

R83- How about Atlantic City?

Embalmed Springs.

There's no surer way of producing old leather than curing it in the hot sun after its been thoroughly soaked.

When did OP go to Palm Springs? If it has been in the past year, then you really can't judge a place during the pandemic.

It's not really a party place - although you can find that during a normal year.

There's plenty to do and it's easy to get around. The weather is great 9 months out of the year and the summer evenings are magical. But yeah - 110 to 115 degree day time temps in the Summer gets old very fast.

I wouldn't want to live somewhere where you can't go outside for an entire season.

@r87 I have been three times, the latest of which was last week, so I guess technically during pandemic. It is the only resort/getaway town I have ever been to that I simply cannot rationalize. It’s like a toy town version of the valley. I guess what an up thread poster said puts it in perspective for me, LA has no other close option for a getaway. They only have big bear, Palm Springs and Santa Barbara I guess. I actually do understand it for people who live in say, Seattle, and own second homes in Palm Springs. THAT is a change of climate and pace. But Palm Springs as a destination for people in LA metro area? Absolutely pointless — OP

Aw, cute little daddy lizard @ r86. Nice camel toe too!

OP your question is quite existential. In fact, there is no actual point to anything.

I don't get the appeal either but I have dozens of FB friends (all middle aged homos) who LOVE the place.

I hate intense heat and sand and scorpions and having to drive to get to anything and golf and large groups of old people and large groups of annoying old homos all queening around a pool in caftans shrieking over what drag brunch they're going to or what porn star/hooker they're gonna hire for this evening's entertainment.

It really sounds like hell to me.

R89/OP - I don't see a similarity with LA at all. I find LA to be crowded, not really very pretty, and just a nightmare to get around.

Palm Springs is desert with mountains, is exceptionally easy to get around, and is not crowded. The humidity level is usually less than 10%, so just the air is different than LA.

I'm not understanding your viewpoint. Plenty of people have a great time there. Are you young? Because I may understand if you're under 35 - it's just not exciting like LA - but that's what a lot of people love.

And if you live in LA, there are plenty of amazing weekend getaways close by - there's a LOT more choice than people who live in other cities. You have 3 completely different climates within 2 hours of LA. The variety of climates in SoCal is hard to beat and not something other places have. You can be in the desert in the morning, ski mid-day, then be at the beach by late afternoon.

What makes you happy? Because you sound very hard to please.

R92 - you've never been to Palm Springs obviously. It's nothing of what you describe.

I play golf so yes, Palm Springs and the vicinity have a point for me.

All you LA queens insisting the Valley is “just like” PS are forgetting one very important thing: Air quality.

Mount San Jacinto blocks all the smog from entering Palm Springs, so their air there is usually pristine (unless the wind is coming off the Salton Sea).

I like PS, but as it’s directly on top of the San Andreas Fault, I wouldn’t buy property there.

It's the meth and fisting capital of North America where you can still find a decent condo for less than $300,000.

What's not to like?

I've been to Palm Springs in the summer and the heat was unbearable for me, I could never live there at that time of year.

How are you bitches forgetting about the awesome outlet shopping?

It’s a hellhole.

Fine to visit for a weekend in winter every few years but to live there?

[quote]meet up in the bars in the afternoon.

I would have imagined the Elder Gays would siesta all the day in their mid-century homes, like lizards under rocks, and only slither out after the sun's rays have gone down.

[quote] R83- How about Atlantic City?

What about Atlantic City?

Talk about a shitty wannabe 'city.'

R102- My parents went to Atlantic City for their honeymoon, and they went in March.

Golf course in Hell.

I found it a pretty good episode about Palm Springs, (can't find a free first part of the double on the net).

Hmm. Maybe I should move to Atlantic City New Jersey over Palm Springs California. It doesn't get extremely hot in the summer and I have the Atlantic ocean to frolic in. Palm Springs has no ocean and it's too hot (115 degrees) in the summer.

i lived a very frantic ,stressful corporate career. PS works just fine for me. I think it is beyond beautiful. but i come from a flyover Plains state so its all perspective.

[quote] Maybe I should move to Atlantic City New Jersey over Palm Springs California.

I can think of few phrases sadder than the words 'maybe I should just move to Atlantic City New Jersey."

R92 has never left her parents home in Poughkeepsie! Where in the world did you come up with that description of PS?! Datalounge?

[quote]My parents went to Atlantic City for their honeymoon

My parents went to Palm Springs for their honeymoon.

In February.

In 1949.

I lived in Palm Springs for 4 years, and it was OK. This was before meth, and I enjoyed the bars on weekends, when all the LA gays came to town. Thinking of retiring there for 6 months...summer is unbearable, and don't buy the "dry heat"BS. Older and married long time, so not interested in bar scene anymore. Lots of older guys work hard to stay in shape.

SoCal has everything except for an ocean that's warm enough to swim in. That's why I spend three weeks in Greece every summer.

In the summer what does it cool down to in the evening? 85?

[quote] PS works just fine for me. I think it is beyond beautiful. but i come from a flyover Plains state so its all perspective.

That makes sense. The "beauty" of PS depends on your reference point.

R114 80-85

R114: Per the National Weather Service, the average daily low temps at the Palm Springs Airport station are:

June 71°

July 78°

August 78°

September 72°

r116 Is that the temperature or the average age?

You all have neglected to mention the Dinah Shore golf tournament hosted there every year. My lezzie friends flock to it like a gaggle of geese headed south for the winter.

They even saw our Dearest Lady of the DL Cait there one year looking stunning, sexy, and beautiful in her golf skirt!

[quote] Palm Springs is relaxing, the air feels better than LA and you can see the stars in the sky at night.

Isn't that 95% of America?

The median age in Palm Springs is 54.8 and the average is 54.

Old (Jurassic in DL years) but hardly nursing home numbers.

[quote] Palms Springs is a great get away. As soon as I get there, I get naked, jump in the pool. You can just walk around at night with your shirt off, smoke a joint, read a good book by the pool.

R67, you basically described why I like PS as an occasional weekend getaway. It doesn't hurt to feel like a fresh young twink again there when I visit the bars. 😂

Valerie Cherish did not enjoy Palm Springs.

@r93 I’m 24, so I guess young for this site. But that doesn’t mean I innately enjoy “excitement”. I just expect a getaway to have almost a jarring difference in comparison to its mother city. Montecito, Santa Ynez, and big bear all are calm vacation destinations that are vastly different from LA proper. Even Temecula has wine country at least, and Topanga/outer Malibu can feel calmer and further removed from LA than Palm Springs, and one isn’t forced to drive a possible 2.5 hours with traffic.

I’d also argue that San Francisco has just as many getaway options as LA, if not more. And a lot of what LA has to offer is the poor mans version of what they have up north. Napa/Sonoma for wine country, Mendocino for the redwood forests + east coast aesthetic, Tahoe for much better skiing than anywhere down south, Yosemite, Stinson beach in late summer, Santa Cruz, Bodega Bay, Calistoga heat and hot springs, the Mavericks for serious surfers, Big Sur+Monterey, Russian river for gays, beer, food and river culture. The list goes on, and all these places feel vastly different from SF, as it is an actual urbanized city throughout. A lot of the socal retreats have the same mid century single story suburban buildings that stretch across much of LA. —OP

Palm Springs is for people who aren't in love with the beach. Some people enjoy the majesty of the beautiful mountains and the calmness of the desert much more.

r122 You'll still feel like a young twink in Palm Springs when you're 67.

[quote] fire island and the Hampton’s is nothing like New York

The Hamptons and Fire Island are exactly like New York. They’re both swarming with people from New York.

It looks so fun-filled!

Comparing L.A. and P.S. is like comparing Beirut & Monaco. L.A. is a rat's nest city for the most part. P.S. is a beautiful, clean little city.

It's spelled "Pointe," OP.

Palm Springs BUMP

r131=Moron

The only bad thing I can think of about PS is that about half the city is built on land leased from Native American tribes. This includes residences. When the leases run out the owners can decide not to renew the lease and you're forced to move.

I can't imagine anyone building or buying a house they know is on rented land.

A lot of properties in London (nine out of ten new flats) come with a leasehold for a certain number of years. Doesn't seem to be stopping them.

There are efforts to reform the system but one suspects the leasehold owners will find a way to derail them.

Which of you rich queens owns this place?

[quote] The only bad thing I can think of about PS is that about half the city is built on land leased from Native American tribes.

Aren't all the gay bars on Arenas Rd. leased on Native land?

It's odd to hear all this boosterism. Our "tasteful friends" posts from PS tell us--stay away from the wind, stay away from houses on Indiana land, stay away from neighborhoods and nearby towns where essential workers live. Too many shoulds to be fun.

Hearing that it's a "great getaway" sounds like a terrible place to live---tourists, tourists, tourists. "Getaway" places near large or even medium sized cities tend to be pretty unattractive as long-term places to live. An economy built around tourism means a lot of mediocre stuff and not necessarily much culture. Ptown is a legit arts town, but I've never heard that about Palm Springs. It really just sounds like a place of very limited vision.

The best-known and most appreciated art in Provincetown is fellatio, R137

Hate Palm Springs. It's the Devil's asshole. No wonder all the older gays love it.

I've never been to the "White Party" that used to be held there for lesbians every year. The idea of sitting in the blazing sun with a bunch of sloppy drunk lesbians makes my skin crawl. Even the pools offer no relief in the summer. It's like jumping in to the crock pot of human juices.

You can stay at Frank Sinatra's old house!

Check out Frank's amazing sound system!

OP is obviously not from SoCal and just doesn't get it. BTW, absolutely nobody I know equates the valley with Palm Springs - ever.

A lot of people have condos in LA and buy houses in the desert. They will drive Friday and stay through the weekend, it's where they go for long weekends, etc. Though the pandemic is hopefully coming to an end, I think the days of PS being a very affordable option to LA is closing in at the gap. Especially if WFH continues. I was there a couple of times last summer and every house was being bought out with less than 30 days on market. For the eldergays who are thinking about retiring to PS, I would not wait too long to buy something.

[quote] Comparing L.A. and P.S. is like comparing Beirut & Monaco.

Is Palm Springs really as tacky as Monaco?

I'm from LA and I wouldn't be caught dead in PS. Although if you go there, you'll likely die from the heat.

After careful review of the above thoughts and opinions, I find that I have come to the conclusion that Palm Springs is indeed, pointless.

The main thing LA and PS have in common is the absurdity of large human settlements in a desert---it's simply unsustainable. Until after WWII the SF bay area with its natural harbor and cross-country rail links dominated the California economy and with all its problems, the Bay area makes much more sense as a place for people to actually live.

@r145 I’m glad you see the light. No point in a dry hot suburb with no unique amenities.

@r146 SF Bay Area has better city life, better climate and nature diversity, and much better choices for a getaway than Palm Springs offers. —OP

R146- The NYT had an extensive article about climate change a few months ago. It said that the Southwest and the Southeast will become UNLIVEABLE and that millions of Americans will migrate north to places like Detroit, Michigan and Buffalo, New York which will have MUCH milder winters and longer growing seasons and abundant fresh water supplies ( being on the Great Lakes).

Be very careful in your choice of geriatric dentists in PS. Oy, I got a great deal (the Hillary Duff) but when I went back to get them shortened, the guy took a powder.

[quote] The main thing LA and PS have in common is the absurdity of large human settlements in a desert---it's simply unsustainable.

What? Did you mean LV (Las Vegas)? Los Angeles is not a desert. Yes, it seems to be getting hotter there, but there is lots of coast and ocean.

I wouldn't mind living in a gay majority city. I wouldn't go out unless absolutely unavoidable like now though.

I'm moving back to Buffalo NY after leaving it 12 years ago. the climate has improved and it's much cheaper than NorCal without much threat of wildfires and planned power outages. it does lack diversity but being close to family and having a more sustainable life makes sense, especially since WFH is so accepted now. i will always work toward diversity and be anti-racism, as i always was, when i lived there.

Good luck, R152. Enjoy your family time with parents, older people, etc.

I would pay cash money to see a grizzled Suzanne Somers with her granny tits making a spectacle of herself at the PS Safeway like she's a 30 year old starlet.

r153 it's hard to leave here (Sonoma County and a daughter) but it's hard to put up with this fire/flood/power outage shit every fucking year. it's like a guaranteed earthquake every year. and i have lived in this CA state most of my life, i'm just so sick of this shit. i love how beautiful it is and how close i am to the sea, but i just can't keep going on with us every year having to evacuate. it's fucking horrible.

i also can't believe my parents moved over to the Big Island when there is the constant threat of the volcano erupting.

Perhaps I missed it in Urban Planning 101, but do all towns and cities have points OP? If so can you fill us in on what they are in other places?

R155, I'd be tired of evacuating, too. When I lived in SF, I drove a few times to wine country. Very green, but it felt hot and sweltering, sometimes.

R150: Take away all the water diverted from elsewhere and LA is a desert--it's obvious when you go up in the hills and look out over the area or if you go to one of the many relatively charmless older suburbs. It's brown.....everywhere. The coast is nice enough but the Pacific is too cold to swim much of the year.

R159- Even areas a bit inland from San Francisco are desert. When I arrived at SF airport and looked outside it was ALL sand.

R159: Go North and its trees. But really, nothing is as fundamentally unlivable as the LA basin, except maybe New Orleans (below seas level even before climate change) and most of Florida (already has seawater in all the wrong places). May be if the big one hits California or class 5 devastates a big chunk of Florida, people will stop moving to unsustainable places.

[quote]May be if the big one hits California or class 5 devastates a big chunk of Florida, people will stop moving to unsustainable places.

The driver will be becoming uninsurable. As soon as parts of Miami get redlined, and people will be forced to relocate, things will change quickly. And it's coming.

Palm Springs is luxury gay living! It’s lounging by the pool after a lavish brunch, then getting a massage and taking a glorious nap. Then going for an early dinner, drinks, and piano bar fun at sunset. Malibu, by comparison, is a lonely place for gay fellowship and celebration. (And might I add a frigid beach experience) I hope you’ll be able to afford the full PS experience one day. Even small minded folks like you deserve it at least once. (I go twice a year.)

r148 unless thats about to happen in the next 50 years, who gives a fuck? We can't stop it so we might as well enjoy beautiful southern California and the southwest while we can. All these predictions have been way off. Wasn't the world supposed to have ended already? You're bringing up shit that my children might have to worry about one day when they are old-old. We are living in the now. Right now, LA and Palm Springs are nice getaways.

I type this as a 30 year old Millennial. Can't stop climate change why burden us with the doom and gloom.

R162: Sounds fine for an afternoon off, but boring purposeless as a lifestyle.

Why not just retire to San Diego? Beach, great weather, warmer sea water, gay people, beautiful climate, and things actually happen in San Diego compared to PS.

R165 - San Diego is full of dangerous conservatives. If you’re not concerned about gay rights however, it’s a fine option.

r159 The San Francisco airport is not really "a bit inland," and the only sand there is on the shores of the Bay. The climate there is often foggy and cold -- not exactly a desert.

Didn’t Three's Company basically ruin San Diego, especially for the gays?

"Three's Company" was set in LA, not San Diego.

R43 Many areas of the SF valley are indeed part of the city of Los Angeles. The highest temperature recorded in the city of Los Angeles is 121 F, recorded in Woodland Hills, a neighborhood of Los Angeles.

R164 What do you even mean by "purposeless"? I moved to Palm Springs to be closer to my family, to enjoy life after spending the last 20 years in big cities, to hang out with friends, to have nice dinners, to live in an affordable place so I can travel the world. I own a vintage clothing shop and find some of my best stuff at estate sales in the Coachella Valley and I do costume research for tv and film. I assure you, my life isn't "purposeless". At least, it isn't to me. I've lived in Chicago, San Francisco, and most recently LA(YUCK!). Finding your purpose is much more than your address. I have talked to more creatives and happy people in Palm Springs than I ever did in LA.

[quote] I moved to Palm Springs to be closer to my family, to enjoy life after spending the last 20 years in big cities, to hang out with friends, to have nice dinners, to live in an affordable place so I can travel the world.

I'm curious about your travel experiences. One of the things I think about when considering where to move (I'm retired) is access to a decent airport. Palm Springs does not have the best air service, and Ontario isn't much better. It's a long haul to LAX or San Diego. (It's also one of the reasons I've hesitated about the Central Coast and Sonoma County.)

R172 When I lived in PS five years ago, I usually drove to LAX but I think there are more connecting options now. I've never understood the $300+ plane tickets from PSP to LAX!

[quote] The climate there is often foggy and cold -- not exactly a desert.

Not all deserts are hot & dry. The high desert on the other side of the San Gabriel Mountains is quite cold (and snowy) in the winter, and can get quite foggy at times. The complete opposite of the hot arid climate of the low desert area of Palm Springs.

Palm Springs is adjacent to the Mojave Desert, a high desert that can get quite cold in winter. Also, PS is surrounded by mountains. You can hop in the tram in summer and enjoy cooler weather at the top (about 15-20 degrees cooler.

A far more cold desert is the Gobi.

"The Gobi desert cold temperature fluctuates between -15°C and -30°C in winter and summer average temperature is +25°C to +38°C. January is the coldest, and July is the warmest month. The Gobi desert night temperature cools down sharply at night because the cloudless sky does not block the cold air.

[quote] Palm Springs does not have the best air service, and Ontario isn't much better.

We go to John Wayne Airport - not exactly nearby but for our time and money much nicer than LAX, with a surprising number of flights headed east.

Agree - the absence of a real airport is a problem. Same as western Sonoma/Mendocino. Love those areas but just impractical to,love there. Spend a month every year - no reason to live there full time. I find being near family more important as I get older. I’m more than happy to visit PS - no need to live there.

I don't understand the complaints about Palm Springs airport. In season, there are enough direct flights to major cities (NY, Chicago, SF, Seattle, and there was one to Atlanta).

Off season, it's a one stop connection through Phoenix or somewhere else.

I used to fly a lot - and flying out of Palm Springs is one of the most pleasurable experiences. It's small, it only takes 5-10 minutes to get there, and you get to wait outdoors for your plane. There are no weather delays.

Compare that to other larger cities where it takes 45-60 minutes to get to the airport (depending on traffic), another 20-30 minutes to get through security, then flight delays and weather delays.

PS Airport was ranked as one of the most stress-free airports in the nation. What exactly do you want from an airport??

Agree, R178.

It’s a fabulous airport even though they closed the putting green.

I miss TWA: nonstops in the winter, a through flight via St. Louis in the winter. After AA bought them, no more nonstops.

"a through flight via St. Louis in the summer."

Landing at PSP can be scary - last time I flew in, the approach was very bumpy and the pilot had to go around. The heat and the mountains create all kinds of weird turbulence.

[quote] What exactly do you want from an airport??

More flights.

I love that you can smoke in their airport! It's fantastic!

It's so weird to still be able to smoke in an airport.

R185 - it's an outdoor airport. There's no smoking indoors.

In 2019 Beverly Hills topped out at 118. Last year Woodland Hills topped at 121. It's only a couple, maybe three, days that get that hideous, but a lot of days last summer stayed in the 110 degree range. And it doesn't cool down below 85 or so at night on some of those hideously hot days.

And living in the valley is definitely living in LA. Only Burbank and Glendale are officially not part of Los Angeles, but even there, people are considered living in LA.

[quote]Only Burbank and Glendale are officially not part of Los Angeles

Excuse me?

R184, you’re thinking of Las Vegas.

I thought people moved to PS because they were priced out of coastal California.

No, R189, you can smoke past security in PSP. Not indoors but at least adjacent to the gates.

r171 God I hated living in LA for the four years i did. I never imagined it taking 30 minutes to drive less than 5 miles to your work because of traffic.

r177 if you're talking about Sonoma and Mendocino counties, have you not heard of the Santa Rosa airport (STS) in Sonoma County? it has become quite popular (before the pandemic, not sure now) and has/had several flights coming in and out of it daily. Popular because of all the people that want to visit wine country and want the convenience of an airport to fly out to larger connecting airports (Seattle, SF, LA, some other major state airports). i've flown in/out of it several times.

LA has become a city where every cop is presumed guilty, ever black person innocent, and every homeless addict/psychopath given free reign. It is officially garbage woke city.

PS is a great alternative.

A non-major airport is a pain in the ass. I’d rather wait 45 mins in a security line than waste 3 hours flying to a connecting city then transferring - in addition to the risk of two delayed flights and missed connections.

r194 i flew from Sonoma County airport to Buffalo w/the same transfer i would have had i flew out of SF. worth it to me, didn't add an extra hour plus on my commute time. you might want to take a moment and check it out, the airport has greatly extended where they fly to. i flew last October to Buffalo from here and it was the same flight time as i would have if i had flown out of SFO. To me, the commute to SFO wasn't worth it and i had the same amount of stopovers/same price.

flew/flown/flied out of. not sure right now, on glass 3 of chard.

Will have to check out Santa Rosa. I much prefer Sonoma and north when I go there - but have traditionally stayed for a night or two in SF on way there and back as it’s a hike to SFO from western Sonoma/Mendocino.

R141, the giant bowl of cigarettes atop the table at Frank’s place is unreal

My sister used to live in Napa, and she'd fly out of Sacramento to avoid having to deal with Oakland or SFO traffic.

I don’t think anyone’s mentioned the Winchester House yet, it was a pilgrimage for me when I went to see it after seeing it on those supernatural and InSearch of type shows in the ‘70s.

r199 Sac is better for Napa, STS (Santa Rosa) is better for Sonoma/Mendocino, for the most part. That saying, Sac has a lot more selection than Santa Rosa.

Oh, another thing to do on the same day when visiting the Winchester House is the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum nearby, that is like a weird religious cult secret society, but boasts about having the largest collection of Egyptian Artifacts on the western United States.they buildings are done up in Egyptian style and very kitschy.

Sorry for 200 and 202, they were meant for the tacky tourist thread, but do fit the NoCal conversation.

r203 Winchester House was creepy as fuck.

r198 I noticed that too. What that a "thing" among well-to-do people back then, I wonder? There were several different brands in that bowl, so I'm assuming it was for guests. Maybe it was a social nicety among wealthier people that if they had guests in their home it was polite to offer free packs of cigs to them? I don't know, but that's the only explanation I can think of.

R205 I don't smoke but my mom (may she RIP) and her friends were all smokers. When I was young I saw silver or wooden boxes with cigarettes in them at people's houses-- presumably for guests-- but never an entire bowl full of cigarette packs (multiple brands, even)!

Growing up in the '60s, we always had a wooden box filled with cigarettes on the coffee table in the living room when guests were expected.

I've seen cigarette boxes for guests in old movies but I've never seen full packs of cigs in a bowl for guests. No wonder everybody and their uncle smoked back then, free cigarettes everywhere you went!

R197-That's CLIMATE CHANGE.

It's time to move to the Northeast or the Northwest- the SUNBELTS of the future.

meow

R1987 Yeah, I couldn't live anywhere that getting to a proper airport is it's own long tiring day trip. I don't remember the Santa Rosa airport being all that much helpful. Shaved off a couple of hours driving time, but made up for it in the connection maze. Perhaps that's changed though. Napa to Sacramento is hardly a quick hop in the car either.

Why we don't have a proper high speed rail system from A to Z and all points in between in California is fucking tragic. Not surprising of course, but tragic. No one mention Amtrak options to me. Hideous. The transit equivalent of COVID. Gross.

Another poster asked a similar question upthread, and now my turn. How much is the average power bill in the summer?

It can be expensive but we have solar which makes it way cheaper

r213 Good to know solar is an option, but what is the amount without solar? Anyone?

OK, looked at this thread on Reddit (I know) and $400 a month sounds about what I thought. Solar drops it WAY down, though I don't know how much it would cost to install/switchover/whatever.

What the fuck do you do if there's a rolling blackout, or someone hits a power pole in August? Pick out your best caftan and wait to die? Is having a generator a must in case of power failure? My technical skills go as far as knowing how to operate a blender, so not sure that extends to knowing how to make a generator generate.

Another question, what are the medical facilities like? I get it that for something serious you'd likely head to LA, but I'm hitting that time of my life where only something slightly serious but above general urgent care, would be a consideration, or perhaps even a bit more serious but not open heart surgery: E.g. What if I trip on my best caftan, and break my hip?

It can be as much as $600/mo

R216 Thanks! *thud*

In the upper Midwest I've had heating bills of $1000+ during frigid months, so...

You can use swamp coolers in the summer - it's 1/6th the cost of air conditioning and does a great job in dry heat.

We have solar as well - and usually electric bills in the summer are around $180.

People who use A/C alone non-stop with no other energy or cooling devices are just stupid.

I really do enjoy these PS threads. They may come often, but I always learn something. One thing I wonder at times is if they aren't sometimes started by people who have made the move to live there, and are experiencing either second thoughts, or need confirmation why this was a good decision for them.

I've heard about swamp coolers and they work well if you have a house that is really segmented.

We have AC but also have multiple AC units so we can cool one area of the house vs another. We also have a house with north/south windows (not many east and none west) so we can really manage our sunlight exposure.

Lemon chicken soup, spinach salad, and half of a turkey and Brie roll up.

But not in Palm Springs...

R110 From Facebook friends endlessly discussing/photographing their constant visits to Palm Springs.

Where's the lie in my description?

Hot, golf courses, dull, have to drive to get to anything, lots of old people, lots of old/middle aged fags queening it up.

Pretty much PS in a nutshell.

Oh, and to clarify, I have been there, too. YEARS ago. Clinton was president.

Palm Springs doesn't appeal to me either but as many people have stated it's a cheaper alternative to LA. I'm used to greenery so the appeal of that whole area is lost in me,not just Palm Springs. It also seems really dated and superficial.

^^*on me

Palm Springs doesn't have those terrible fires that LA and SF have.

[quote]It also seems really dated

The date shakes are fabulous!

R215 Eisenhower in Rancho Mirage is a fantastic hospital.

I wonder how Mike from the Palm Springs gathering is doing these days? Poor thing with the pandemic restrictions must be freaking the fuck out not having something to micro-manage.

R230 It was once.

Now it appears the patients don't think so: 2.5 stars???

R232 There's a long list of things that are challenging to obtain here

Medical care

Landscapers

Any kind of tradesperson (electrician, tile installation, plumber, etc.)

Locksmith

Literally, anything you can think to want to do for yourself or your home? cannot be done here

And with that, we have come full circle (of death) of yet another very enjoyable (aka so glad I don't live there, feel better for living here) Palm Springs thread.

Tune in next time for another installment of Palm Springs, yea or nay?

R234 we'd love to host you for a visit, but we understand you can't afford to come.

I'm sure Barstow will have something more fitting for you. Tschuss!

How come we never do this about Wilton Manors - the East Coast equivalent? Is it the utter lack of ANY redeeming quality so it is almost self-evident that WM is pointless and wholly unattractive? Then why have huge numbers of eldergays moved there? Why is it the most gay area of Florida? I get Palm Springs - I don’t get Wilting Manors.

R236 Frank Sinatra and Lucille Ball NEVER hung out in Wilton Manors and NEVER would have.

Wilton Manors has zero zoning. You can find a nice mid-century home (also, with no lot) but it will be across the street from trailer homes and next door to an auto mechanic. Just gross.

That would be WRINKLES Manors, you dumb whores.

R233 I'm guessing you're a cunt and no one wants you to hire them. We've had no problem finding any of those services here.

There are loads of eldergays in gross Atlantic City too.

@236 sounds like a great thread idea: “what’s the Palm Springs of your region?” And then people list the pointless vacation destinations in their area.

Forgive me if this is common in the hospital world, but Eisenhower has a top floor wing devoted to patron donors. If you have contributed big bucks to the ho$$$$pital, you can qualify to recover in a private, fancy, hotel room like area. My neighbor has also used the service to spend the night in one prior to his surgery. No need for him to get up early to travel. He said the food is 5 star. It even has its own rarified name and concierge service. Well, at least that’s what he’s told me.

I always wondered if they sold caftans in the gift shop....

Hospitals love donors. Every major teaching hospital in the US offers something similar. What good does it do if the care still sucks? And reading those one star reviews, it appears Eisenhower's does.

If the five-star dining comes with a post op infection, thanks a lot but but no thanks.

At UCLA, where I was a resident, we called the donor/rich person floor the "hall of death". You see, residents didn't work on that floor and at night, it is the residents that put out the fires.

Based on what I am learning about living here, it wouldn't surprise me.

There's a huge chunk of old Republicans and rich eldergays who don't want to be anywhere near The Poors unless some young brown papi is tending their garden or fucking them. So a separate floor sounds on brand.

Is the Barbara Sinatra Center for Teenage Sluts at the Eisenhower Medical complex?

Open wide area calm, clean with stars at night provide an oasis from the crowded, noisy, cramped, dirty cesspool called LA,

As a native Californian, I do worry about the climate change and heat. Palm Springs was in the 120's this week. 110 is unbearable and you can't really be outside, other than a very quick dip. LA is getting hotter, although so far, so good this year. What worries me most is the lack of rain and how destructive the fires are each year. It's now becoming an annual thing, total town's devastated, even and especially in the typically wetter Bay Area.

I love to visit, casinos, the tram up the mountain, the views, the golf, just relaxing by the pool, good restaurants, good gay nightlife. Great Shakes!!!

It's all about the Tool Shed. It's so fun.

We winter there and have tennis courts and pools in the condo complex, plus we can ride our bikes.

For me the only point of being somewhere super hot is that it brings up the sea temperature and makes it swimmable. I spend a lot of time in Greece, Spain and Turkey for that reason. Palm Springs is inland and LA still has cold sea even in August, so they're pointless destinations.

The stars are amazing - swimming naked under the stars after a night out. Jump in the pool, take a jacuzzi, eat breakfast outside before it gets to hot, read under an umbrella, make lunch, take a nap, go out for dinner, drinks, rinse, repeat. You recharge your batteries in Palm Springs.

R253 nails it as far as hot destinations; R254 makes clear why PS seems so dull, all that self involved doing nothing that most requires air conditioning. I've done it places like Ptown or Kauai and at least there were things to see without feeling as if you you're living in a blow torch.

[57] June through September is for The Poors. Everyone else migrates to cooler climes during those months.

[252] don’t forget about the hiking, tennis, pickle ball, shooting in amazing consignment shops, happy hours and the amazing and sometimes frisky pool parties.

I went to Palm Springs for a weekend birthday party…..hot as fuck during the day…the party was held outside at night…..perfect…had a good time. …the pool parties are simply wonderful……….

R255 - If you don't like self indulgence, Palm Springs is not for you. There is something very sexy and hedonistic about the desert. You either get it or you don't. Maybe you are more a Guernvilile type of woodsy bear.

R254, do they cool the swimming pools because otherwise they'd get nasty and tepid? They did in Dubai where I lived for a couple of years.

R124 Tahoe and Yosemite are 4 hours away fromSan Francisco, though. That's like driving from Boston to New York City.

Wasn’t Palm Springs the sole stop on the FOLLIES national tour?

@r261 Tahoe is an average of 3.2 hours from sf, that’s easily how long it can take to get from north LA (where most gays live) to Palm Springs with traffic. And there is usually traffic. Yountville in Napa is only an hour from SF, Guerneville is an hour 15, point Reyes is less than an hour, Stinson beach is 30 minutes, and Monterey is an hour 40 from sf. LA can’t compare to sf when it comes to choices for getaways, and Palm Springs shouldn’t even be in the conversation as it brings LAs vacation value down. It’s utter synthetic trash.

R263 Now you're talking about places that are closer to SF but I was just pointing out that you were talking about places that are 4 hours from San Francisco as being near San Francisco. I mean if you're going to say that you can go to Tahoe from San Francisco, you can go to Mammoth Mountain from LA.

Anyway, you're being very selective in what you're mentioning about LA.

"Stinson Beach is 30 minutes." LA doesn't have a shortage of beaches. if you think Palm Springs is trash, there are other desert communities. There's Joshua Tree National Park, and the Palms To Pines highway that goes up to Idyllwild, a beautiful Alpine setting also close to LA -- there's also Big Bear and Arrowhead. There are various other mountain settings -- like Angeles National Forest. San Diego is less than 2 hours away, with more beautiful beaches. There's also Catalina.

Las Vegas and Death Valley are closer to LA than to San Francisco, so is Mexico.

* And the whole Santa Barbara area is easy to reach from LA as well.

Laguna Beach is the place to go in SoCal…..love it there….beautiful and very Gay…..

r263 Has a magic car, apparently. Or has never really to/from those locations. Add at least an hour on to any destination mentioned in that post for "real world" travel estimation.

Sorry back on topic. I love these PS threads. More please!

Laguna Beach is not nearly as gay as it used to be.

With this discussion of Palm Springs, I'd like to take a vacation there. I researched the gay resorts, and they look fun and relaxing.

I'm 58 and my body is far from perfect, though. I'm hesitant, knowing how gay men are judgmental and bitchy. Do older men visit those gay resorts? What do other gay guys think about those gay resorts?

119 degrees in The Springs tomorrow. It used to have clean desert air and not much rain. That was the attraction, I think, back when L.A. was smoggy and it rained Nov - May, esp. Jan - Mar. Now P.S. has smog and L.A. is drier.

R268, does Laguna Beach still have Pageant of the Masters? Nothing gayer than that, is there?

r269 At 58, you're practically chicken in Palm Springs.

More like fried chicken.

Good- stay away OP. PS, it’s nothing like LA- Lordy

Seems like rainfall in LA is pretty variable by year.

Yeah, 275, it does vary, but-did you ever live in L.A.?--it was common for L.A. to have substantial rain in the winter as I recall. I remember a day in the late 80s when it hit 107, but that was anomalous. We're in for it now, with climate change.

It rarely rains in California between May and October. I remember being surprised when I moved to the east coast that there were places where it rained in the summer. Certainly makes it hard to have weekend plans when you have to worry about the possibility of rain.

R276 Yeah when I was a kid for a couple years in the 70s I lived in Sierra Madre. It rained in January-Feb a lot iirc.

R277 where in California did you live? CA has about eight different climates. Living in Julian is not the same as living in Cambria or living in Fresno or living in Santa Monica or living in San Francisco. San Francisco was so rainy and cold 40 years ago that people from SoCal wanted to visit, but not live there.

Sorry, 277, I misread the months on your post. My bad.

r279 was born and raised in the Bay Area, went to college in the Sacramento area (UCDavis) and now live in LA County.